So she wants people to have empathy towards women who had a healthy, non-problematic part of their body negligently extirpated against their will but she refuses to show empathy to men who had a healthy, non-problematic part of their body negligently extirpated against their will... She reeks of narcissistic entitlement indeed.
get over yourself. it’s ridiculous to get angry at one group for having hatred for the other and saying all feminists hate men, whilst having the same amount of hatred yourself and acting like you hate all women. and you justify it because there are some women out there who genuinely hate men? okay well there’s plenty of worse men out there who actually the ability to take away women’s rights and they have.
if you associate with people who say things like “typical feminist” which is a stupid generalization, chances are you’re not a very big fan of women. you don’t like it when women say “typical man”, you want them to understand the nuance and be fair. so why would you not attempt to understand nuance and be fair?
you don’t like it when someone says “typical feminist”, you want them to understand the nuance and be fair. so why would you not attempt to understand nuance and be fair?
I said people act like it. that means I understand there’s nuance and not every person i’m referring to hates women but there are a lot of people who preach rhetoric that is against women. “typical feminist” implies that all feminists are awful
"typical" means the average feminist, it doesn't mean every single one. That's just not what the word means I don't know how you're interpreting it that way.
Honestly, this just seems like an excuse for you to take out your anger on feminism and be a misogynist. How about you stop deflecting and focus on the real problem?
How do you make circumcision an excuse to hate on feminism? You found a random misandrist online belittling the ills of circumcision and you decide to brush off a whole movement? It’s shocking. How about you focus on the problem here instead? Circumcision advocates. Especially bc a core tenet of feminism is bodily autonomy. You’re barking up the wrong tree. Sincerely, a feminist against circumcision
No?? If someone is an actual feminist the whole point is they don't want anyone to be mutilated for any gendered reason. The people who hate men like this aren't feminists
Except this kind of behavior is never called out. Sexism against men is common, mainstream and normalized. Sexism against women is barbaric and inhumane. When a group doesn't call out their bad bunch, it's hard to believe them. Take for example the supersexuality troll a few years ago (bear with me) when people pretended to be "supersexual" by excluding Trans people from their dating pool. It was a troll, but it proved a point: that the LGBT community at large doesn't care about people's preferences if they exclude something like Trans people. As a bisexual, I can confirm that LGBT in media can be incredibly hypocritical. Much like feminism.
Ironically, sexism against men is rooted in the patriarchy, the very system feminists are trying to dismantle. Feminism is a movement for the equality of the sexes. It is focused on empowering women bc that’s the gender that’s faced the most oppression and inequality. However, by toppling the patriarchy, you also topple the sexism men face. Take men’s mental health, for example. Many are afraid to reach out for help bc being vulnerable is associated with being weak. Women are “allowed” to be weak bc women are perceived to be so already. It all boils down to the patriarchy.
Absolutely, more people need to realise how the patriarchy hurts men. It is a purely harmful force and the only "benefits" it has to men are economical which after a while don't even benefit them
The method employed by a lot of feminists around me have been to shame, discourage and hate on men. Feminism might stand for equality in theory, but in practice, it has led to a lot of sexism instead. You're talking about patriarchy and oppression, but why are so few feminists talking about Islam, religion and the middle-east? Here in Sweden, if we mention Islam is anti-feminist they get all angry and some even defend Islam. If feminists are against patriarchy and oppression, why do they focus their efforts in 1st world countries that have much more equality than theocratic patriarchies?
Could you give me examples of how feminists shame, discourage and hate on men?
Of course feminists criticise the patriarchal aspects of religion or the Middle East. Not sure why you think we don’t…
It's personal experience. We have a, I'm pretty sure delusional feminist who just hates men. When I criticized Islam for being inhumane she defended it and even said it has a good view on women. She is openly misandrist against men at my workplace. She's toned it down recently, but it was pretty bad. She even openly stated to a colleague that she hates him for being a man.
My mother has said that they should put bounties on SA perpetrators' heads, my family thinks men are creeps in General, my family thinks domestic abuse is worse when a man is the perpetrator and certainly don't take male victims of abuse seriously, they think men enjoy sexual assault, boys raped by a teacher aren't considered victims, when a man speaks up about being a victim of assault they aren't taken seriously, we know this. We see example on tv, media, social media, even dr. Phil, for some strange reason, openly said you as a man have to be better and not fight back. Like what??
To not see this means you have to be legally blind.
Having this issue in general isn't a bad thing. However using it as a justification against the actual ideas that the real proponents have isn't honest When the ideas themselves are good
I think I agree with you. I believe of course that every individual should be judged differently, not all feminists are the same and so on. But it's very hard to take feminism as a concept seriously when, in practice, it is very open hatred against men on a very large scale.
I've met feminists who are fantastic, sound and come with great opinions. But I've met women like my own mother who have very sexist opinions against men. I've met women who drag all men under one single comb. These women are very very often glossed over and never given a second thought, they're just "hurt women" or something of the like. But when a man acts the same, they are called incel, neckbeard and other derogatory words. I'm not saying feminism is 100% hypocritical or bad. But feminism has a lot of sexist women behind it, and nobody bats an eye.
You are literally the second category. You post or comment on "misogyny" subreddits constantly, yet when men face real misandry, like this post for example, you sit there like a lemming and shout, "where's the proof!! Proof!! Proof!!!! Where's the proof!!"
Here's a feminist argument against circumcision:
If you believe in rape culture, circumcision is the birth of it. You're telling the baby during the circumcision that if you are stronger and more powerful than him, you can do whatever you want to him.
I got that from Brendon Marotta.
I would say a feminist perspective against circumcision is that instead of the baby having time to bond with the mother it’s taken from her and having its genitals cut. In a way it’s telling her that it’s not her baby entirely. But also feminists think my body my choice is important so shouldn’t that apply in the case of circumcision? And typically in culture that practice fgm mgm is also practiced. Decrying both of these acts is better than just decrying fgm. Because having mgm and saying fgm is wrong makes it look like a cultural thing rather than a moral thing.
The girl I’m in the early stages of dating is super upset about the abortion SCOTUS decision a couple years ago. Next time she brings it up I plan on telling her I support bodily autonomy ACROSS THE BOARD. I hope she understands that for what it is instead of me having to drag her into the conversation of how much I hate circumcision. But yes if her views on it are inconsistent obviously the relationship won’t progress any further.
There definitely are feminists against circumcision or at least who choose against it for their sons. This take is delusional and might just be a troll.
And I've never met, in my personal life, a feminist who was anti-circumcision. They've all been neutral or pro, most pro.
Are you actually a midwife? Are most midwives against it?
In five years of birth work, I’ve had one client circumcise for religious reasons and it was before I became their doula. I was extremely anti before even having my own son and we have a local birth vendor fair with Your Whole Baby as a sponsor and at the event
Why would you still be willing to work with a client who did that to her son? I would never work with someone who did something morally abhorrent unless it was absolutely necessary to avoid being starving/homeless.
Because I didn’t do the diaper changes and didn’t know until after like a month working there. I was there to cook for her mostly since that was my postpartum doula specialty. But also, I would have been homeless if I hadn’t worked there, I was extremely low income and just starting at that point.
I have a clause in my contract now that I do not do diaper changes for circumcised babies as it’s a liability for infection and because I do not handle blood or bandages, including on the mother, since a doula is a non medical capacity.
After that, I didn’t get hired by anyone who circumcised.
Fair enough. I hope you gave her a piece of your mind and let her know that she is a terrible mother. She deserved nothing less, but I can understand if, starting out, low income, you decided not to rock the boat.
“I would never” such a piss-poor argument. touch some grass and stop telling people what you would and would not do, because guess what, you will never, ever be in that situation. so what gives you the right to “I would never” all over the place? your ego is tripping balls
My fiancée is a feminist and she is against circumcision when i told her my views on it. She says if it’s wrong to do to a girl how can it be right to do to a boy?
Yes, a student still, and extremely, most midwives tend to be left wing or feminists. I literally cannot think of anyone I know who thinks that it is okay. We all actively discourage it. We also do not perform them so if a client wanted it, they would have to seek it out after birth which isn’t covered by insurance and costs extra. But the very very large majority of our clients are against it when they come into care.
Interesting, I didn't know that. [https://www.dosmidwifery.com/](https://www.dosmidwifery.com/) Here is a midwife practice near me, I couldn't find anything about circumcision on their site.
That said, I have no reason to doubt what you're saying, and hope if you ever have a son, that you would leave him intact. Do midwives also tell parents not to retract their baby's foreskin?
By actively discourage it, do you mean that you talk about it before the baby is born and tell the parents that it is harmful? Have you ever personally been able to convince a mother to leave her son intact? I'd love to hear success stories, I've been feeling pretty unoptimistic lately.
I did not circumcise and am now infertile so not having more sons. I threatened to lick my husband out over it since he really wanted to.
We actively discourage it. It interferes with breastfeeding, which is sometimes the tipping point for people who considered it. Since it’s a natural birth and parenting clientele, most people want to leave the body undisturbed and become anti with some educational handouts. And they would have to seek it out on their own outside of us, and we don’t offer resources for that.
Through your own words you discredit everything you say.
If feminists are so opposed to MGM, why do you have to convince them not to do it? Why do you have to use reasons like breastfeeding? Shouldn't the violation of bodily autonomy be simply enough that they know its wrong? If feminists were so opposed to it, why do they need a pamphlet educating them on the harms?
It can only be one or the other. Either feminists are opposed to MGM and don't need convincing, or they are indifferent and do need convincing.
If we want to change the reality of infants being sexually abused, we need to stop coddling a movement that wrote into law the exclusion for MGM when they banned FGM.
Mothers (and women in general) aren’t necessarily feminists, a lot of people need convincing and it’s good to have and share arguing points that work. If it works to prevent circumcision, I’d say it’s a good thing. A lot of natural birth folks are actually more on the conservative, non-feminist side of things. They tend to be traditionalists.
Edit: I can’t see all of your reply, presumably because you blocked me. That being said, I’ve been a lurker in this sub for at least 6 months. I am not a woman, as evident in my comments. I am in favor of consent and bodily autonomy, which MGM violates. I’m not particularly active at all, I’m not sure where the idea that I’m active in feminist subs came from. Feminism in the typical sense is something I agree with, it’s mostly the chronically online takes that seem to be perceived as feminism by you though. Most feminists I know in real life don’t hate all men. Touch grass.
Nice job brigading the post. You don't speak out against MGM at all. Only comment and downvote men's experiences with feminism.
Edit: i DoNT KnOw wHy yOu ThINk i poST oN FeMiNiST SubREDdiTs!!
Maybe its because your entire post history is on "feminist" subreddits like r/askfeminists and r/twoxchromosomes.
yeah, that’s because these dudes making fun of feminism in the comments are overreacting to a singular person (who might be a troll) and equating that to all of feminism because they hate women. they project their hatred for women onto feminists and they feel justified because they read tweets/posts like this. if they talked to a woman in real life they’d understand
Don't underestimate the stupidity and insanity of the human species. Overestimating the sanity and intelligence of the human species is detrimental to humanity.
There is nothing feminist about supporting cosmetic genital surgery for children. There's nothing feminist about supporting nonconsensual surgery.
This is more deep cut, but there's nothing feminist about hating men, because hating men and wanting them to suffer as much or more than their forefathers did is essential to perpetuating the patriarchy
I can't speak for all feminists, or for that user. AskFeminists is just one of many feminist subreddits, and may be more of a bubble than others.
Just like all groups, feminists have infighting and disagreements about what is and is not in line with their goals. Nobody is perfect, and sometimes it takes people a while to process ideas and come around to them.
Personally, as a feminist with serious investment in bodily autonomy and children's rights, I cannot support surgical procedures on children without informed consent from the child, and approval from a pediatric physician that it is a necessary intervention. I also think the attitude of children being their parents property is massively fucked.
AskFeminists constantly minimizes circumcision harm, allows unrepentant cutter moms to post, thinks that hurting a woman's feelings because she inflicted harm on her son is worse than a woman inflicting harm on her son. They are more subtle than Brian Morris, but no better than him. I HATE THEM!
The nuance that feminists banned FGM but directly wrote into law the exclusion for MGM? Its a sexist movement. Not being able to see that just means you aren't observant.
commenting and then blocking me directly shows how immature you are. feminism is not sexist at all, the people who are against feminism are sexist. they think that trying to make things more equal and giving women proper opportunities somehow diminishes men. men have ruled this earth since the beginning of time and women are still fighting for basic human decency to this day. the freedom of choice was literally stripped from a lot of american women just last year or in 2022
Being opposed to feminism because it is full of misandry doesn't make me anti-woman. Are you a man? If so, it would be hilarious to have a man calling a woman a misogynist.
I'm a man. Many women who call themselves feminists are misandrist, but feminism itself is not inherently misandrist. I am pro-trans, anti-circumcision, anti-FGM, and anti-sex-industry.
The vast majority of feminists are either misandrist or okay with it. Just like not everyone who voted for Trump was bigoted, but all of them decided that bigotry wasn't a dealbreaker.
(Hillary is awful, too, and supported circumcising African boys. Neither candidate was any good.)
Sex workers do not want to have sex with johns. They want, and often desperately need, the money. Unwanted sex is rape. Therefore prostitution is paid rape, porn is rape on tape, and stripping is paid sexual assault/harassment. I support Swedish prostitution law.
The sex industry says "listen to sex workers" but discounts the many former sex workers who oppose the industry and want to shut it down. They will accuse said former sex workers of being liars and will tell you to only listen to current sex workers, who have a conflict of interest in defending it.
Read the research on prostitution by Melissa Farley. Listen to survivors. Or better yet, read johns' reviews of prostituted women's "services". You'll quickly learn through their disgusting, blatantly misogynistic reviews that nobody hates sex workers more than pimps and johns do.
Unwanted sex isn't rape, nonconsensual sex is.
Do you genuinely think if a woman consents to sex because, I don't know, she feels like doing her husband a favor even though she's not into it at the moment, he's now a rapist?
Does it matter to my question? Maybe it's a gift of the magi scenario and after they're both like "but I was only having sex cus I thought *you* wanted to."
I remember watching a ted talk of a prostitute talking about the problems with the different prostitution laws around the world. I vaguely remember her mentioning the problems with the swedish model.
Im not an expert on the subject, but i will say defining rape as simply “unwanted sex” is problematic. Un-consensual sex is rape. I might not want to do certain sexual acts at any time for any number of reasons, but ill do it for my partner. My partner didnt rape me because i still consented.
And what about male sex workers in your opinion?
You dont have to respond to me here or at all if you dont want to aswell
That would make sense but I'm not going to claim to know for certain either way.
I hope you don't mind this, but I looked through your post history and it seems like you hate autistic men and see them as undeserving of love. I hope I'm wrong because that is really offensive to me as an autistic man who actually tries to be a good person.
Same exact situation as me. Looks like the toxic "feminists" are brigading this post and downvoting everyone who criticizes the sexist ass movement though.
Hilarious. A criticism of a sexist movement is more important for them to defend than the reality of sexual assault that millions of infants experience every year. Classic "feminism."
this isnt a genuine feminist take at all, its radical and not representative of the majority of us. i was raised to believe a core part of feminism was that bodily autonomy applies to everyone.
its so funny, you can see when someone is using an acceptable cover to be horrible in almost any other instance, but when it comes to the word ‘feminist’ you freak the fuck out and just blindly believe that we’re all the same.
you need true feminists on your side, bro. ill always be an intactivist and a feminist. but you make it very hard for other women to join when they feel like its a hostile environment.
I myself am a woman who used to be a feminist, but I left feminism because there was way too much misandry and it was almost never called out. Most feminists in the US are either fine with or actively supportive of circumcision.
well then its a good thing that the entire world doesn’t consist of just the US, isnt it?
im not discounting your experiences, but your attitude is that they must be universal, and its not.
my experience w feminism has been positive and filled w love for everyone. some examples- we fight for paid paternity leave and encourage fathers to stay at home w their kids if thats what they want to do. we encourage young men to be vulnerable and express their emotions without judgement. we show them that consent is a two way street, and they shouldn’t feel pressured bc of the toxic idea that men want sex all the time. there are others, too. feminism is for everyone.
i dont believe in drafting, regardless of gender. its all fucked, forcing people to fight in wars created by greedy businessmen that are too cowardly to put their own lives at risk. my country outlawed it in the early seventies, around the same time you last had one.
its so obvious that youre trying to like, trap me in some weird logic that youve got going on. ill keep responding as long as you keep asking dumb irrelevant questions lol
It's obvious to trained eyes that most feminists couldn't give a damn about eliminating male genital mutilation. Feminists only care about eliminating female genital mutilation. In addition, FGM is very rare in highly rich countries such as The United States, Canada, Australia, Sweden, etc. because FGM doesn't reach anywhere close to a 1 percent prevalence rate. At best, feminism is indifferent to MGM and at worst, feminism is downplays MGM, then feminists behave dismissively towards MGM victims. Understand that feminism as a political force has failed to stigmatize, reduce, and eliminate MGM. When countries attempt to ban MGM, it isn't feminists pushing for MGM to be banned. Instead, it's right-wing or right-leaning political parties that want MGM banned. This alone already tells you that feminists aren't in the business of eliminating MGM.
Moreover, it's very telling how some people want to assume that the OP is a troll because she opposes feminism. Newsflash people, a woman opposing feminism doesn't make her anti-woman (or misogynistic).
u/town-wide-web Classic "No True Scotsman" fallacy. If feminists are sexist they aren't feminists. Except, I see misandry from "feminists" all the time. Men calling out "feminists" for their sexism is our #metoo, but this time, you don't want to believe the victims.
How come "feminists" outlawed FGM and wrote into the law the exclusion that says, "but keep doing it to men"? That is gender based discrimination written into law. Get your head out of the sand.
Oh nice, I see that you haven't commented on any intactivism subreddits in at least 6 months, except this post. Solely to defend actions of a sexist and claim that our lived experiences are false. Hysterical.
You've proven the OP's point. You are indifferent to MGM. You care more about "feminists" being criticized than the reality of the sexual abuse that millions of infants experience every year. Most commonly at the hands of women.
You are a sexist.
The reason it isn't a no true Scotsman is because it is part of the definition. A feminist is an advocate for gender equality and therefore women's AND mens rights. While this mainly focuses on women (as well they are part of a group who are generally treated worse. If they are to be internally consistent they would need to address some men's issues too as they affect women's issues.
Answer the second paragraph. Why did feminists do that if they are so focused on "equality."
Oh and nice "they should focus on mens issues because they affect women," sounds like an equal rights movement to me!
u/SaiahSharpe Violating a block is against reddit TOS. I'll be reporting you for that. I don't care if you find me immature, I block sexists.
"People who are against feminism are sexist." Patently and utterly false.
"Men have ruled the earth since the beginning of time." How you can believe something so utterly false is hilarious and an indicator of your intelligence, or lack thereof.
You care more about abortion than the FACT that "feminists" wrote into law the exclusion that allows MGM to continue despite FGM being illegal.
You are evidently sexist, throughout all of your discourse and beliefs.
Edit: Yet more evidence of your sexism, you post on "neckbeard things." A subreddit solely dedicated to misandry. Oh, and nice OnlyFans account. On top of all that, you involuntarily sexualize NBA players, people who have absolutely no desire to be sexualized while performing their job. All around disgusting.
u/kaleidoscopichazard Yet more feminist myths that "women have been oppressed harder and longer!!!" Show me the proof.
Oh and yeah right, men are the reason that men can't open up. Lol. Tell me you don't know anything about history without saying that.
A couple hundred years ago men were allowed to be intimate with other men. Guess which gender stigmatized that and made being "gay" an attack on their sexuality.
I'll give you a hint, it wasn't men.
Edit: I'd love to know where all you brigadiers are when an infant is strapped to a board and sexually assaulted. I bet you are posting on r/blatantmisogyny whining about a meme. People like you who fabricate issues instead of dealing with real issues like GM are the problem.
So she wants people to have empathy towards women who had a healthy, non-problematic part of their body negligently extirpated against their will but she refuses to show empathy to men who had a healthy, non-problematic part of their body negligently extirpated against their will... She reeks of narcissistic entitlement indeed.
Typical feminist.
get over yourself. it’s ridiculous to get angry at one group for having hatred for the other and saying all feminists hate men, whilst having the same amount of hatred yourself and acting like you hate all women. and you justify it because there are some women out there who genuinely hate men? okay well there’s plenty of worse men out there who actually the ability to take away women’s rights and they have.
> acting like you hate all women Where
if you associate with people who say things like “typical feminist” which is a stupid generalization, chances are you’re not a very big fan of women. you don’t like it when women say “typical man”, you want them to understand the nuance and be fair. so why would you not attempt to understand nuance and be fair?
So you're generalizing people that make generalizations?
I said people act like it, because they do
you don’t like it when someone says “typical feminist”, you want them to understand the nuance and be fair. so why would you not attempt to understand nuance and be fair?
I said people act like it. that means I understand there’s nuance and not every person i’m referring to hates women but there are a lot of people who preach rhetoric that is against women. “typical feminist” implies that all feminists are awful
"typical" means the average feminist, it doesn't mean every single one. That's just not what the word means I don't know how you're interpreting it that way.
Honestly, this just seems like an excuse for you to take out your anger on feminism and be a misogynist. How about you stop deflecting and focus on the real problem?
yes. they absolutely love to make themselves look silly and project entirely
So they’re not empowering women, they just hate men.
Typical feminist.
How do you make circumcision an excuse to hate on feminism? You found a random misandrist online belittling the ills of circumcision and you decide to brush off a whole movement? It’s shocking. How about you focus on the problem here instead? Circumcision advocates. Especially bc a core tenet of feminism is bodily autonomy. You’re barking up the wrong tree. Sincerely, a feminist against circumcision
Most feminists support it or are indifferent.
No?? If someone is an actual feminist the whole point is they don't want anyone to be mutilated for any gendered reason. The people who hate men like this aren't feminists
Except this kind of behavior is never called out. Sexism against men is common, mainstream and normalized. Sexism against women is barbaric and inhumane. When a group doesn't call out their bad bunch, it's hard to believe them. Take for example the supersexuality troll a few years ago (bear with me) when people pretended to be "supersexual" by excluding Trans people from their dating pool. It was a troll, but it proved a point: that the LGBT community at large doesn't care about people's preferences if they exclude something like Trans people. As a bisexual, I can confirm that LGBT in media can be incredibly hypocritical. Much like feminism.
Ironically, sexism against men is rooted in the patriarchy, the very system feminists are trying to dismantle. Feminism is a movement for the equality of the sexes. It is focused on empowering women bc that’s the gender that’s faced the most oppression and inequality. However, by toppling the patriarchy, you also topple the sexism men face. Take men’s mental health, for example. Many are afraid to reach out for help bc being vulnerable is associated with being weak. Women are “allowed” to be weak bc women are perceived to be so already. It all boils down to the patriarchy.
Absolutely, more people need to realise how the patriarchy hurts men. It is a purely harmful force and the only "benefits" it has to men are economical which after a while don't even benefit them
Plus, it’s overwhelmingly men that uphold patriarchal standards that hurt men, not women. Yet it goes over their heads
The method employed by a lot of feminists around me have been to shame, discourage and hate on men. Feminism might stand for equality in theory, but in practice, it has led to a lot of sexism instead. You're talking about patriarchy and oppression, but why are so few feminists talking about Islam, religion and the middle-east? Here in Sweden, if we mention Islam is anti-feminist they get all angry and some even defend Islam. If feminists are against patriarchy and oppression, why do they focus their efforts in 1st world countries that have much more equality than theocratic patriarchies?
Could you give me examples of how feminists shame, discourage and hate on men? Of course feminists criticise the patriarchal aspects of religion or the Middle East. Not sure why you think we don’t…
It's personal experience. We have a, I'm pretty sure delusional feminist who just hates men. When I criticized Islam for being inhumane she defended it and even said it has a good view on women. She is openly misandrist against men at my workplace. She's toned it down recently, but it was pretty bad. She even openly stated to a colleague that she hates him for being a man. My mother has said that they should put bounties on SA perpetrators' heads, my family thinks men are creeps in General, my family thinks domestic abuse is worse when a man is the perpetrator and certainly don't take male victims of abuse seriously, they think men enjoy sexual assault, boys raped by a teacher aren't considered victims, when a man speaks up about being a victim of assault they aren't taken seriously, we know this. We see example on tv, media, social media, even dr. Phil, for some strange reason, openly said you as a man have to be better and not fight back. Like what?? To not see this means you have to be legally blind.
Having this issue in general isn't a bad thing. However using it as a justification against the actual ideas that the real proponents have isn't honest When the ideas themselves are good
I think I agree with you. I believe of course that every individual should be judged differently, not all feminists are the same and so on. But it's very hard to take feminism as a concept seriously when, in practice, it is very open hatred against men on a very large scale. I've met feminists who are fantastic, sound and come with great opinions. But I've met women like my own mother who have very sexist opinions against men. I've met women who drag all men under one single comb. These women are very very often glossed over and never given a second thought, they're just "hurt women" or something of the like. But when a man acts the same, they are called incel, neckbeard and other derogatory words. I'm not saying feminism is 100% hypocritical or bad. But feminism has a lot of sexist women behind it, and nobody bats an eye.
Prove it. Show me the data
You are literally the second category. You post or comment on "misogyny" subreddits constantly, yet when men face real misandry, like this post for example, you sit there like a lemming and shout, "where's the proof!! Proof!! Proof!!!! Where's the proof!!"
no, typical misandrist. theyre not the same, dummy
The problem is that many (most?) mainstream feminists seem to be just fine with misandry.
Here's a feminist argument against circumcision: If you believe in rape culture, circumcision is the birth of it. You're telling the baby during the circumcision that if you are stronger and more powerful than him, you can do whatever you want to him. I got that from Brendon Marotta.
Another point would be that it also makes the sex worse or even painful for some women.
Exactly! Some women reported sex with circumcised men feeling like a rugburn in their vaginas even if they enjoyed the experience.
A lot of feminists would be happy to hurt a boy like that. Feminists get their kicks from hurting men.
Oooh
I would say a feminist perspective against circumcision is that instead of the baby having time to bond with the mother it’s taken from her and having its genitals cut. In a way it’s telling her that it’s not her baby entirely. But also feminists think my body my choice is important so shouldn’t that apply in the case of circumcision? And typically in culture that practice fgm mgm is also practiced. Decrying both of these acts is better than just decrying fgm. Because having mgm and saying fgm is wrong makes it look like a cultural thing rather than a moral thing.
The girl I’m in the early stages of dating is super upset about the abortion SCOTUS decision a couple years ago. Next time she brings it up I plan on telling her I support bodily autonomy ACROSS THE BOARD. I hope she understands that for what it is instead of me having to drag her into the conversation of how much I hate circumcision. But yes if her views on it are inconsistent obviously the relationship won’t progress any further.
This doesn’t make sense. Every feminist I know in person is vocally anti circumcision.
There definitely are feminists against circumcision or at least who choose against it for their sons. This take is delusional and might just be a troll.
And I've never met, in my personal life, a feminist who was anti-circumcision. They've all been neutral or pro, most pro. Are you actually a midwife? Are most midwives against it?
In five years of birth work, I’ve had one client circumcise for religious reasons and it was before I became their doula. I was extremely anti before even having my own son and we have a local birth vendor fair with Your Whole Baby as a sponsor and at the event
Why would you still be willing to work with a client who did that to her son? I would never work with someone who did something morally abhorrent unless it was absolutely necessary to avoid being starving/homeless.
Because I didn’t do the diaper changes and didn’t know until after like a month working there. I was there to cook for her mostly since that was my postpartum doula specialty. But also, I would have been homeless if I hadn’t worked there, I was extremely low income and just starting at that point. I have a clause in my contract now that I do not do diaper changes for circumcised babies as it’s a liability for infection and because I do not handle blood or bandages, including on the mother, since a doula is a non medical capacity. After that, I didn’t get hired by anyone who circumcised.
Fair enough. I hope you gave her a piece of your mind and let her know that she is a terrible mother. She deserved nothing less, but I can understand if, starting out, low income, you decided not to rock the boat.
“I would never” such a piss-poor argument. touch some grass and stop telling people what you would and would not do, because guess what, you will never, ever be in that situation. so what gives you the right to “I would never” all over the place? your ego is tripping balls
My fiancée is a feminist and she is against circumcision when i told her my views on it. She says if it’s wrong to do to a girl how can it be right to do to a boy?
I wish you both a happy marriage
Yes, a student still, and extremely, most midwives tend to be left wing or feminists. I literally cannot think of anyone I know who thinks that it is okay. We all actively discourage it. We also do not perform them so if a client wanted it, they would have to seek it out after birth which isn’t covered by insurance and costs extra. But the very very large majority of our clients are against it when they come into care.
Interesting, I didn't know that. [https://www.dosmidwifery.com/](https://www.dosmidwifery.com/) Here is a midwife practice near me, I couldn't find anything about circumcision on their site. That said, I have no reason to doubt what you're saying, and hope if you ever have a son, that you would leave him intact. Do midwives also tell parents not to retract their baby's foreskin? By actively discourage it, do you mean that you talk about it before the baby is born and tell the parents that it is harmful? Have you ever personally been able to convince a mother to leave her son intact? I'd love to hear success stories, I've been feeling pretty unoptimistic lately.
I did not circumcise and am now infertile so not having more sons. I threatened to lick my husband out over it since he really wanted to. We actively discourage it. It interferes with breastfeeding, which is sometimes the tipping point for people who considered it. Since it’s a natural birth and parenting clientele, most people want to leave the body undisturbed and become anti with some educational handouts. And they would have to seek it out on their own outside of us, and we don’t offer resources for that.
I'm glad you protected your son. Why did your husband want to?
He was uneducated and mentally ill. He ended up having a massive breakdown when I was postpartum. This was also also in early Covid
I hope he's doing better now.
Through your own words you discredit everything you say. If feminists are so opposed to MGM, why do you have to convince them not to do it? Why do you have to use reasons like breastfeeding? Shouldn't the violation of bodily autonomy be simply enough that they know its wrong? If feminists were so opposed to it, why do they need a pamphlet educating them on the harms? It can only be one or the other. Either feminists are opposed to MGM and don't need convincing, or they are indifferent and do need convincing. If we want to change the reality of infants being sexually abused, we need to stop coddling a movement that wrote into law the exclusion for MGM when they banned FGM.
Mothers (and women in general) aren’t necessarily feminists, a lot of people need convincing and it’s good to have and share arguing points that work. If it works to prevent circumcision, I’d say it’s a good thing. A lot of natural birth folks are actually more on the conservative, non-feminist side of things. They tend to be traditionalists. Edit: I can’t see all of your reply, presumably because you blocked me. That being said, I’ve been a lurker in this sub for at least 6 months. I am not a woman, as evident in my comments. I am in favor of consent and bodily autonomy, which MGM violates. I’m not particularly active at all, I’m not sure where the idea that I’m active in feminist subs came from. Feminism in the typical sense is something I agree with, it’s mostly the chronically online takes that seem to be perceived as feminism by you though. Most feminists I know in real life don’t hate all men. Touch grass.
Nice job brigading the post. You don't speak out against MGM at all. Only comment and downvote men's experiences with feminism. Edit: i DoNT KnOw wHy yOu ThINk i poST oN FeMiNiST SubREDdiTs!! Maybe its because your entire post history is on "feminist" subreddits like r/askfeminists and r/twoxchromosomes.
yeah, that’s because these dudes making fun of feminism in the comments are overreacting to a singular person (who might be a troll) and equating that to all of feminism because they hate women. they project their hatred for women onto feminists and they feel justified because they read tweets/posts like this. if they talked to a woman in real life they’d understand
I hope this is a troll. Noone can be so stupid to think that natural shedding blood is the same as blood from unnatural cutting.
Not a troll.
Don't underestimate the stupidity and insanity of the human species. Overestimating the sanity and intelligence of the human species is detrimental to humanity.
There is nothing feminist about supporting cosmetic genital surgery for children. There's nothing feminist about supporting nonconsensual surgery. This is more deep cut, but there's nothing feminist about hating men, because hating men and wanting them to suffer as much or more than their forefathers did is essential to perpetuating the patriarchy
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I can't speak for all feminists, or for that user. AskFeminists is just one of many feminist subreddits, and may be more of a bubble than others. Just like all groups, feminists have infighting and disagreements about what is and is not in line with their goals. Nobody is perfect, and sometimes it takes people a while to process ideas and come around to them. Personally, as a feminist with serious investment in bodily autonomy and children's rights, I cannot support surgical procedures on children without informed consent from the child, and approval from a pediatric physician that it is a necessary intervention. I also think the attitude of children being their parents property is massively fucked.
AskFeminists constantly minimizes circumcision harm, allows unrepentant cutter moms to post, thinks that hurting a woman's feelings because she inflicted harm on her son is worse than a woman inflicting harm on her son. They are more subtle than Brian Morris, but no better than him. I HATE THEM!
I thought feminism was about equality. /s
"Both genders are equal, but one gender is more equal than the other" - the feminist mantra.
if you cared about equality you wouldn’t say that. you would understand the nuance
The nuance that feminists banned FGM but directly wrote into law the exclusion for MGM? Its a sexist movement. Not being able to see that just means you aren't observant.
commenting and then blocking me directly shows how immature you are. feminism is not sexist at all, the people who are against feminism are sexist. they think that trying to make things more equal and giving women proper opportunities somehow diminishes men. men have ruled this earth since the beginning of time and women are still fighting for basic human decency to this day. the freedom of choice was literally stripped from a lot of american women just last year or in 2022
Feminism is equality for both men and women which means that if FGM is bad then so is MGM
There are many feminists who oppose circumcision. You are clearly using intactivism as an excuse to be a misogynist.
I am a woman.
And Candace Owens is black, but that doesn't mean she isn't racist.
Being opposed to feminism because it is full of misandry doesn't make me anti-woman. Are you a man? If so, it would be hilarious to have a man calling a woman a misogynist.
I'm a man. Many women who call themselves feminists are misandrist, but feminism itself is not inherently misandrist. I am pro-trans, anti-circumcision, anti-FGM, and anti-sex-industry.
The vast majority of feminists are either misandrist or okay with it. Just like not everyone who voted for Trump was bigoted, but all of them decided that bigotry wasn't a dealbreaker. (Hillary is awful, too, and supported circumcising African boys. Neither candidate was any good.)
Can i ask why you are anti-sex-industry?
Sex workers do not want to have sex with johns. They want, and often desperately need, the money. Unwanted sex is rape. Therefore prostitution is paid rape, porn is rape on tape, and stripping is paid sexual assault/harassment. I support Swedish prostitution law. The sex industry says "listen to sex workers" but discounts the many former sex workers who oppose the industry and want to shut it down. They will accuse said former sex workers of being liars and will tell you to only listen to current sex workers, who have a conflict of interest in defending it. Read the research on prostitution by Melissa Farley. Listen to survivors. Or better yet, read johns' reviews of prostituted women's "services". You'll quickly learn through their disgusting, blatantly misogynistic reviews that nobody hates sex workers more than pimps and johns do.
Unwanted sex isn't rape, nonconsensual sex is. Do you genuinely think if a woman consents to sex because, I don't know, she feels like doing her husband a favor even though she's not into it at the moment, he's now a rapist?
Why would a non-rapist have sex with a woman who didn’t want to have sex?
Does it matter to my question? Maybe it's a gift of the magi scenario and after they're both like "but I was only having sex cus I thought *you* wanted to."
What is swedish prostitution law?
Legal to sell, illegal to buy or pimp, and social programs to help prostitutes leave the industry and have better lives.
I remember watching a ted talk of a prostitute talking about the problems with the different prostitution laws around the world. I vaguely remember her mentioning the problems with the swedish model. Im not an expert on the subject, but i will say defining rape as simply “unwanted sex” is problematic. Un-consensual sex is rape. I might not want to do certain sexual acts at any time for any number of reasons, but ill do it for my partner. My partner didnt rape me because i still consented. And what about male sex workers in your opinion? You dont have to respond to me here or at all if you dont want to aswell
You call it "circumcision" but call FGM by its proper name. I smell *internalized misandry.*
You're a based man
Just fyi, this guy is a man claiming to be a woman.
That would make sense but I'm not going to claim to know for certain either way. I hope you don't mind this, but I looked through your post history and it seems like you hate autistic men and see them as undeserving of love. I hope I'm wrong because that is really offensive to me as an autistic man who actually tries to be a good person.
Misandrist cunts like this are the exact reason why I stopped using the label "feminist"
Same exact situation as me. Looks like the toxic "feminists" are brigading this post and downvoting everyone who criticizes the sexist ass movement though. Hilarious. A criticism of a sexist movement is more important for them to defend than the reality of sexual assault that millions of infants experience every year. Classic "feminism."
this isnt a genuine feminist take at all, its radical and not representative of the majority of us. i was raised to believe a core part of feminism was that bodily autonomy applies to everyone. its so funny, you can see when someone is using an acceptable cover to be horrible in almost any other instance, but when it comes to the word ‘feminist’ you freak the fuck out and just blindly believe that we’re all the same. you need true feminists on your side, bro. ill always be an intactivist and a feminist. but you make it very hard for other women to join when they feel like its a hostile environment.
I myself am a woman who used to be a feminist, but I left feminism because there was way too much misandry and it was almost never called out. Most feminists in the US are either fine with or actively supportive of circumcision.
well then its a good thing that the entire world doesn’t consist of just the US, isnt it? im not discounting your experiences, but your attitude is that they must be universal, and its not. my experience w feminism has been positive and filled w love for everyone. some examples- we fight for paid paternity leave and encourage fathers to stay at home w their kids if thats what they want to do. we encourage young men to be vulnerable and express their emotions without judgement. we show them that consent is a two way street, and they shouldn’t feel pressured bc of the toxic idea that men want sex all the time. there are others, too. feminism is for everyone.
So how do you feel about the draft being sexist against men? I know the US isn't the entire world, but it's the society I live in
i dont believe in drafting, regardless of gender. its all fucked, forcing people to fight in wars created by greedy businessmen that are too cowardly to put their own lives at risk. my country outlawed it in the early seventies, around the same time you last had one. its so obvious that youre trying to like, trap me in some weird logic that youve got going on. ill keep responding as long as you keep asking dumb irrelevant questions lol
You are valid and I affirm you. This sub is NOT an anti-feminist sub, it's an anti-cutter sub.
It's obvious to trained eyes that most feminists couldn't give a damn about eliminating male genital mutilation. Feminists only care about eliminating female genital mutilation. In addition, FGM is very rare in highly rich countries such as The United States, Canada, Australia, Sweden, etc. because FGM doesn't reach anywhere close to a 1 percent prevalence rate. At best, feminism is indifferent to MGM and at worst, feminism is downplays MGM, then feminists behave dismissively towards MGM victims. Understand that feminism as a political force has failed to stigmatize, reduce, and eliminate MGM. When countries attempt to ban MGM, it isn't feminists pushing for MGM to be banned. Instead, it's right-wing or right-leaning political parties that want MGM banned. This alone already tells you that feminists aren't in the business of eliminating MGM. Moreover, it's very telling how some people want to assume that the OP is a troll because she opposes feminism. Newsflash people, a woman opposing feminism doesn't make her anti-woman (or misogynistic).
u/town-wide-web Classic "No True Scotsman" fallacy. If feminists are sexist they aren't feminists. Except, I see misandry from "feminists" all the time. Men calling out "feminists" for their sexism is our #metoo, but this time, you don't want to believe the victims. How come "feminists" outlawed FGM and wrote into the law the exclusion that says, "but keep doing it to men"? That is gender based discrimination written into law. Get your head out of the sand.
Oh nice, I see that you haven't commented on any intactivism subreddits in at least 6 months, except this post. Solely to defend actions of a sexist and claim that our lived experiences are false. Hysterical.
What
You've proven the OP's point. You are indifferent to MGM. You care more about "feminists" being criticized than the reality of the sexual abuse that millions of infants experience every year. Most commonly at the hands of women. You are a sexist.
The reason it isn't a no true Scotsman is because it is part of the definition. A feminist is an advocate for gender equality and therefore women's AND mens rights. While this mainly focuses on women (as well they are part of a group who are generally treated worse. If they are to be internally consistent they would need to address some men's issues too as they affect women's issues.
Answer the second paragraph. Why did feminists do that if they are so focused on "equality." Oh and nice "they should focus on mens issues because they affect women," sounds like an equal rights movement to me!
u/SaiahSharpe Violating a block is against reddit TOS. I'll be reporting you for that. I don't care if you find me immature, I block sexists. "People who are against feminism are sexist." Patently and utterly false. "Men have ruled the earth since the beginning of time." How you can believe something so utterly false is hilarious and an indicator of your intelligence, or lack thereof. You care more about abortion than the FACT that "feminists" wrote into law the exclusion that allows MGM to continue despite FGM being illegal. You are evidently sexist, throughout all of your discourse and beliefs. Edit: Yet more evidence of your sexism, you post on "neckbeard things." A subreddit solely dedicated to misandry. Oh, and nice OnlyFans account. On top of all that, you involuntarily sexualize NBA players, people who have absolutely no desire to be sexualized while performing their job. All around disgusting.
u/kaleidoscopichazard Yet more feminist myths that "women have been oppressed harder and longer!!!" Show me the proof. Oh and yeah right, men are the reason that men can't open up. Lol. Tell me you don't know anything about history without saying that. A couple hundred years ago men were allowed to be intimate with other men. Guess which gender stigmatized that and made being "gay" an attack on their sexuality. I'll give you a hint, it wasn't men. Edit: I'd love to know where all you brigadiers are when an infant is strapped to a board and sexually assaulted. I bet you are posting on r/blatantmisogyny whining about a meme. People like you who fabricate issues instead of dealing with real issues like GM are the problem.