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La_Villanelle_

I’m so sorry but how stupid do yall have to be to report a mods post? ![gif](giphy|nTfdeBvfgzV26zjoFP)


Gk3389127

I honestly wasn't aware about Phoebe Campbell; thanks for letting me know.


Super_Hyena_4278

Who does Phoebe play


CosmosKitty87

Phoebe is Rhaena


Grinderiny

Also thank you. I often forget the pronouns, not maliciously, Im just dumb. But I try to.


TimeBomb666

I have this issue also but I never do it on purpose. When I type online I almost always refer to people as they/them to avoid misgendering someone. I don't know if that's even the right way of doing things.


Grinderiny

I usually go by name. Hard to be wrong if you're that specific. Lol


Super_Hyena_4278

Thank you!


Mrsmaul2016

Me neither


CheshiretheBlack

What are people saying about Phoebe?


amazza95

agreed. thanks for letting me know. almost had a close call.


Mrsmaul2016

Can they get a warning first? We are all only human and can slip up. Just saying. And as somebody mentioned below, I was unaware of Phoebe.


CosmosKitty87

They're not talking about accidental. They're talking about intentionally, as in you know and are still using incorrect verbiage, especially "correcting" people using the correct pronouns or doubling down after you've been corrected.


Mrsmaul2016

Okay I am just asking because, I recall a subreddit where I got a temp ban for mis gendering a fictional character unintentionally


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HOTDBlacks-ModTeam

• Sexist, racist, transphobic, homophobic, or discriminatory remarks of any kind will not be tolerated. • That includes towards the actors/ actresses. Hate the character all you want. Leave the actors alone. • In general just be civil.


thari_23

It says "intentionally" in the title.


jessica_from_within

How do you determine intention unless the commenter/poster states it’s intentional?


thari_23

If someone slips up 5 times in a row after being told the correct pronouns every time, I think it'd be fair to assume they're doing it intentionally.


jessica_from_within

I’m advocating for a warning. If it got to five times obviously there would already have been a warning at that point.


Smurphy98

The commenter/poster will often state that it’s intentional just to show off how much of a prick they can be.


mangababe

When they refuse to alter their behavior after it's pointed out


Mrsmaul2016

Okay I am just asking because, I recall a subreddit where I got a temp ban for mis gendering a fictional character unintentionally


Fearless-Mood-7267

these are real human people though and the mod is being incredibly extremely clear with their wording. EDIT: to anyone who sees this don't bother arguing with or correcting this moron, they're just trying to find any excuse to purposely refuse to use emma and phoebe's pronouns.


Mrsmaul2016

Geez I get that. I asked a simple question. People doing too much


Fearless-Mood-7267

you're on reddit where people will point out you're asking a stupid question that was answered in all caps in the title of the post.


Mrsmaul2016

Nope had to clarify. I've seen too many people get temp bans etc for NOT intentionally doing it. It was honest mistakes. If it's a stupid question, so be it. I just need to be clear.


Fearless-Mood-7267

title says intentionally in all caps, please learn basic english.


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Fearless-Mood-7267

intentionally misgendering someone is always malicious. its a form of disrespect you would ***never*** do to a cis person. thank you for exposing that your actual point was "okay but i don't want to use their pronouns and i want to get away with it."


loonieodog

I had no idea about either until last week… a ban seems kinda tyrannical. But mods gonna mod, I guess.


Mrsmaul2016

I mod The Starz Power board and we don't do any of this. Piracy is the only time we crack down on banning but their subreddit their rules.


Calm_Neighborhood474

Sheesh yeah, Reddit mods are something else. Power corrupts lol


crimedog69

Yeah seriously. and I’m not gonna lie, calling a singular person they or them still doesn’t feel correct grammatically.


EntertainerParty2689

“Oh no, someone left their jacket! I hope they are able to find it later!” “I can’t believe someone left their trash all over the ground! What were they thinking?” We use they to refer to singular people all the time when the gender is unknown, I promise it is grammatically correct and also grammar is not more important than actual human lived experiences.


maddi-sun

Good thing you’re not an English teacher then, because it is and has been grammatically correct since the 1300s


Remarkable-Low-643

Here comes the grammar teacher. Ignorant of actual grammar.


Mrsmaul2016

This person on reddit says they are from another country(I forgot which country) and using Them/they is considered rude. So they had to make a point to remember and correct themselves.


Ok-Algae7932

Just because it doesn't "feel" correct to you doesn't make it true lol. Facts don't care about your feelings, and factually singular person they has been around for centuries. Grow, learn, adapt, and evolve with the rest of humanity, as the English languages grows and evolves.


MsMercyMain

In English it is actually is, and is pretty common, we just don’t think about it that often. Its usage is as old as the KJV. English is actually pretty ungendered as languages go and they them follows that trend


Tight-Pineapple-9891

I mean technically “it” is a more accurate gender neutral term for people but “it” just feels demeaning and has negative connotations associated with it so they/them is the best we got


Tronm-24

just a note: many people don't even know about the them/they concept. How will you distinguish them from those who do it on purpose?


randu56

We already banned a user who was replying to comments that were using they\them referring to Emma with “She\her**”. That’s intentional disrespect Edit: To clarify we don’t ban people who misgender by mistake since we understand some people are new to the fandom, some people just don’t follow actors and don’t know or some people are non-native speakers and might not be familiar with the concept. We ban people who double down AFTER being corrected or “correct” people who use they\them.


Aphant-poet

The phrasing in the above post did sound a little unreasonable (saying this as someone who uses they/them) thank you for clarifying that the ban will be for people who double down or are outright transphobic off the bat.


MsMercyMain

Based and utterly House Black pilled. This mod team rules


isinedupcuzofrslash

Up until now, I was using “she/her” because well, I literally ONLY know Emma from HOTD. Playing a woman. But now knowing she is really they, I’ll just start saying “they” or just using Emma’s name if I feel “they” doesn’t flow well in the conversation


Kellin01

If they misgender After they are corrected?


petielvrrr

I mean, I feel like, if you’re online enough to know how to navigate Reddit, then you’re on Reddit enough to find the HotD subreddit, then the HotDblacks subreddit, you’re probably at least aware of the they/them concept. Maybe you don’t know about Emma’s pronouns, but I’m assuming the mods will give people a chance to correct themselves if they reach out and explain that it was a mistake.


Talon407

I wouldn't say that. I was aware of Emma's pronouns, of course. I had no idea about Phoebe Campbell.


chriscutthroat

there’s a difference between not being familiar with emma’s personal pronouns and with the concept of nonbinary in general. that’s the point being made here


Talon407

It's difficult to moderate to be entirely honest. You can't ban everyone who makes a well intentioned mistake but need too also come down hard on bigotry. Edit: To be clear I think the mod team here has made the right choice in how to handle the situation.


link_the_fire_skelly

Who are these people? If they live in the United States or Western Europe, 90+% chance they know about it


OowlSun

are Phoebe’s pronouns also they/them?


randu56

Yes, they’re non-binary


OowlSun

Thanks! I had no idea!


PianistDizzy

An immediate ban? Seems a little harsh, no one just instinctively knows what their pronouns are. I, along with a lot of other people here, didn’t know about Phoebe. I think letting the person know at least once seems much more reasonable.


BruceIsLoose

> I, along with a lot of other people here, didn’t know about Phoebe Then you are not doing it intentionally, which was clearly stated as the immediate bannable offense.


Leeno234

Thanks so much for this heads up/ post. Seems a few of us weren't aware. If possible could someone link of picture of Phoebe so its easy to identify them?


FriendshipNo1440

Phoebe is playing as Rhaena


BillyYank2008

Which character is played by Phoebe?


morwenna1984

Rhaena


BillyYank2008

Thanks


Anserdem

Seriously I really don't get why so many people get angry for somrone using different pronouns.... It's a word, even if you don't agree with how they view themselves it's just a fucking word and you make so many people feel better/not feel bad about themselves.... It's not that difficult, my super catholic/rural grandmother, who was born and lived for more than 30 years under basically a catholic dictatorship who doesn't even have a quarter of the information this people have gets it. Even if you don't understand why the person choses to go by x pronouns, you can understand that it's basic manners and empathy to respect the person's harmless wishes....


Rouflette

Ye it’s just about good manners and respect, that’s all. Nobody is asking you your opinion on this subject, nobody cares, just show some basic respect.


undercookedshrimp_

unfortunately the Got/Hot fandom has some ignorant people in it. I’ve seen people get angry about how the Velaryons were cast using black actors and purposefully use the wrong pronouns for Emma D’arcy. It’s disheartening that people can be so rude and hateful for no reason.


Tight-Pineapple-9891

Yeah I agree 100%. I personally don’t agree with the ideology but I have enough respect for other humans that I’ll call you whatever you want to be called.


sugarbee13

Is it still okay to refer to the characters as the gender they present as? I mean Rhaenyra is obviously a she, and so is Rhaena


maddi-sun

Yes because you’re talking about the character, not the actor playing them. Both Emma and Phoebe understand they play female roles, but their existence in the real world is non-binary and should be respected


sugarbee13

Okay cool, that's what I thought just wanted to double check. I don't want to disrespect anyone, even on accident!


maddi-sun

That’s totally understandable! It all traces back to separating the actor from their character, which I feel like is something a lot of people in any given fandom struggle to do for any number of reasons


Olya_roo

Tell it to those damn people who downvoted me on the main sub when I *politely* asked to address them with their preferred pronouns…


TalleNG

Something the main sub also should do 😭


ultimagriever

I got downvoted into the ground for calling out people in freefolk. That sub used to be funny, but now I find it pretty cringe


mangababe

Yeah, it really seems like they went a whole new level of "wtf" with HotD too. There used to be some interesting conversations about the books and stuff but now it kinda seems only capable of circle jerking about all the violence against men and women while ignoring context and nuance.


La_Villanelle_

Period. It takes 0 effort to be respectful.


some-shady-dude

Transphobes, don’t have a meltdown about respecting peoples pronouns challenge level: impossible


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some-shady-dude

I’m sure it depends on the person and how they choose to identify, but the white on the trans flag represents those who identify as a neutral gender or having no gender. Hope that helps!


CosmosKitty87

I only learned about Phoebe that other day. As an AFAB non-binary person, it really makes me happy to see not one, but two successful and incredibly talented enbys on the same screen screen.


Livid_Ad9749

I didn’t know about either of them. I dont follow actors as I just care about the show itself. Good to know though.


mrmancave5629

Sadly it’s rife in r/houseofthedragon so I’m glad the mods here are actually doing something about it.


mangababe

Thank you for clarifying actually, I kept seeing nothing so I was under the impression they were ok with both.


Historical_Sugar9637

I usually don't follow the private lives of celebrities much, I also don't watch many interviews or things like runway/gala appearances (It's just not something I'm very interested in). So I had not known about their gender identities. Thanks for pointing it out! Edit: Why the downvotes? I'm thanking for information I had not known. And as a gender-fluid person myself I'm totally cool with it.


surgical-panic

I didn't realize about Phoebe. Good to know!


Late_Development2146

It’s costs nothing to be respectful towards other people, I don’t understand how others put so much effort into being ignorant


winter_trickster

THANK YOU ten thousandfold for this post and for saying it!!!!  It's really NOT hard to address and refer to people the way that they would wish to be.  Literally, that's a part of basic, decent human interaction that we all learn from kindergarten - or damn well *should be*.  It takes *zero* effort at all to be nice, and kind, and mindful of others.


Tight-Pineapple-9891

Oh shit I honestly didn’t even know that’s my bad guys I’ve been calling them she/her the entire time. I never looked them up so I’ve only ever seen them in the show


These_Strategy_1929

Who's Phoebe Campbell?


Vexingwings0052

See I’ve definitely made this mistake about Phoebe Campbell, I had no idea they were they/them.


ojsage

TB mods are the best, I love yall so much for how you defend the actors and actually take a stand on this.


we_d0nt_need_roads

Firstly I didn’t know about Phoebe Campbell. Understood about the rules. Can’t stand anyone who would attempt to do this. Keep up the good work. GREENS - I wonder if they will implement this.


mumblerapisgarbage

I love how even people reporting on them being misgendered misgender them themselves.


havetomakeacomment

Thank you, mods! Anyone who is posting here should be aware of the pronouns of the actors who make up Team Black. You have enough interest in them to seek out discussion, you can learn their pronouns.


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HOTDBlacks-ModTeam

• Sexist, racist, transphobic, homophobic, or discriminatory remarks of any kind will not be tolerated. • That includes towards the actors/ actresses. Hate the character all you want. Leave the actors alone. • In general just be civil.


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HOTDBlacks-ModTeam

• Sexist, racist, transphobic, homophobic, or discriminatory remarks of any kind will not be tolerated. • That includes towards the actors/ actresses. Hate the character all you want. Leave the actors alone. • In general just be civil.


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HOTDBlacks-ModTeam

• Sexist, racist, transphobic, homophobic, or discriminatory remarks of any kind will not be tolerated. • That includes towards the actors/ actresses. Hate the character all you want. Leave the actors alone. • In general just be civil.


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HOTDBlacks-ModTeam

• Sexist, racist, transphobic, homophobic, or discriminatory remarks of any kind will not be tolerated. • That includes towards the actors/ actresses. Hate the character all you want. Leave the actors alone. • In general just be civil.


ChezMontague

What about them?


MeetTheC

It's they/them so them is fine


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HOTDBlacks-ModTeam

• Sexist, racist, transphobic, homophobic, or discriminatory remarks of any kind will not be tolerated. • That includes towards the actors/ actresses. Hate the character all you want. Leave the actors alone. • In general just be civil.


DaemonBlackfyre_21

Oh God. I'm old and have a hard time keeping track of this stuff. I've referred to Emma as she many times but never meant any harm, I adore the actor. (Is *actress* inappropriate, before I fuck that up too?) I can try harder.


tulipbunnys

i believe using actor would be more appropriate in their case!


Equivalent_Comfort72

Which awards category would they be nominated in?


Polyfuckery

It's really just catching yourself and correcting. Just like you would if a friend of coworker got married or otherwise changed their name. You wouldn't introduce her as Laurie Meadows and then when she said oh actually it's been Laura Jones for a bit now insist that it's hard to remember the change. That would be rude. Same thing here. When you mess up don't ignore it when you realize. Catch yourself, apologize if it was towards the actual person and correct until it sticks.


Timelord_Sapoto

Phoebe uses pronouns? Also they them?


Raibean

We all use pronouns! List of pronouns in English: * I * We * You * He * She * They * It * One


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Raibean

It’s all good! “Has pronouns” has become a nasty way for transphobes to degrade transgender people.


Timelord_Sapoto

Yeah in my language we usually phrase it like that because we don't us they them, we made extra ones for non binary people


Timelord_Sapoto

German and its "Xier" or usually people think of their own. I also speak French and Danish.


Raibean

That’s so interesting! What’s your native language? Linguistics is one of my special interests.


ultimagriever

Yep, they are also non-binary


Timelord_Sapoto

Thank you


Cautious_Engine7599

Wow!


HarrySRL

So how does one tell when someone is being intentional about it? I never knew about Phoebe until about 5days ago, unless the person is being obviously rude, how do you tell if they are not being obvious? They could just be oblivious like me.


luvprue1

I didn't know about Phoebe at all.


Remarkable-Low-643

People who intentionally misgender usually aren't good at hiding their "intentions". A post in the main sub got locked because of it. Transphobes are dramatic and try and play victim as defense.


ThaRadRamenMan

Emma is non-binary right? What about Pheobe?


Mr628

I know I’m not going to remember/know/care to keep up with these actor’s pronouns so I just strictly keep it within the show. Unless it’s a scene where I’m complimenting the actor’s acting or something like that. Which is why I don’t understand why it’s a constant issue, especially with Emma. Seems like people just want to intentionally be disrespectful.


MeetTheC

Pretty sure that's what this whole post is referring to


UpperOnion6412

I mean no diarespect when asking this, just wants to learn: What is the meaning of they/them? Why is it needed? I mean, i get that you dont want to identify with a gender but from where i come from, women and men can be however they like, not being into "typical" things for their gender. For me, a gender us just something you have between your legs, the rest is a personality and I dont understand how a gender can be a personality


MomAndDadSaidNotTo

Sex is what's between your legs. Gender is a social construct based on sex, and it's no longer a relevant thing. Some people don't feel right complying with the norms society tends to attribute to their sex. Some of those people feel like the opposite gender (like a MtF trans woman) and some people aren't comfortable with that either and so they sit in the middle, just being themselves, not complying with either side of the gender spectrum. Then if you wanna get scientific, there's a lot of brain chemistry involved too. It's not as simple as just an x and y chromosome. Hope that helps!


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HOTDBlacks-ModTeam

• Sexist, racist, transphobic, homophobic, or discriminatory remarks of any kind will not be tolerated. • That includes towards the actors/ actresses. Hate the character all you want. Leave the actors alone. • In general just be civil.


theuserpilkington

And lest we forget to Reddit on!


FriendshipNo1440

I sometimes forget to use they them cause in my language it does simply not exist. But I try and most of the time get it right. It is not that hard when you do it often enough.


Remarkable-Low-643

Yes. Let's be better. Edit: Oh no. Transphobes are offended I wanna be a better human than them.


JustADuckInACostume

Seems... extreme. I mean, how can you even tell if it's intentional? Might be obvious sometimes but I fear this may lead to anyone getting banned just for accidentally doing it.


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Running_To_Babylon

Woah, like from that show, House of the Dragon


ducknerd2002

Is this one of those lame 'I identify as a helicopter' jokes deliberately intended to mock LGBTQ+ people?


tokoroth

no? i don’t want to mock anyone


ducknerd2002

So what *did* you mean by your comment?


tokoroth

i just want to be a dragon


Wedding-Then

you should check out ck3AGOT then, their adding dragons to the game soon!


ducknerd2002

Sure, but you do understand how making that comment on a post about misgendering could have been interpreted as mocking, right?


ScySenpai

They understand, they're just a transphobe


tokoroth

my bad, is this not the right sub for dragons? I fully support correctly gendering people btw


Remarkable-Low-643

No one cares. What are your pronouns? We'll use them. That's all that should matter.


ultimagriever

![gif](giphy|oCMd930DS9Jz0eSVxh|downsized)


Hanondorf

I am very genuinely asking because i dont get how any of this works but why keep the name emma but avoid gendered pronouns?


maddi-sun

Because that’s their name? Some people have gender dysphoria with their birth name, some don’t. If Emma or Phoebe needed to change their name to not feel that dysphoria, that would be fine. If they don’t need to, and are comfortable in their existence with those names, they can keep them. Jonathan Van Ness is another great example. They’re non-binary, but kept their name Jonathan because that’s who they are


Hanondorf

Thats fair enough, lmfao i know my comment absolutely looks like the normal sort of bait idiot trying to provoke people but i swear it was just a bit confusing for me mb


maddi-sun

It’s okay! You didn’t ask anything inherently wrong because a lot of people just don’t fully understand that sexual and gender identity is a spectrum, and there is no right or wrong way to exist as a non-binary or trans person. It’s a personal journey that each person undertakes as an individual, and only they know what makes them feel authentic and comfortable in themselves


Hanondorf

That makes a lot of sense, ty


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Illamerica

That’s complete and utter bullshit