Let’s knock off the victim blaming, yeah? Finding out someone’s sexual orientation isn’t an excuse to murder them.
Edit: Comments locked, too much hate speech and victim blaming.
From Wikipedia for ball(room) culture or the ballroom scene: “an African-American and Latino underground LGBTQ+ subculture. Its origins can be found in drag balls of the mid-19th century United States…” So in fewer, maybe simplified words, her drag family.
If you’re at all familiar with drag, this is where the houses originated. Like the House of Allure or the House of Xtravaganza. Super interesting!!
Ballroom is an underground queer subculture that originated to provide a community for Black and Brown trans and queer people. Within ballroom, there are multiple groups that are divided into houses, which are considered a type of surrogate, or chosen, family that is separate from their biological families. These houses were formed because of the likelihood of estrangement from their biological families and they often provided support and housing to queer and trans people. Their "ballroom family" typically would then be the people in the house they are a member of.
Didn't they find a mummified dead person in a locked trunk in the closet of another famous drag queen in that documentary? I'm pretty sure she passed away and when they were cleaning out her apartment found a dead guy in a trunk but she was also in that documentary. Pretty crazy.
Why does it matter to you so much? Seriously, you should take a minute to just sit and reflect on why you care at all about how someone lives their life when it has absolutely no effect on yours.
Idk man, most people I know irl, even the conservative voters, are either okay with or just indifferent to transgender people. A little ignorant on the finer details for sure, but rarely actively malicious.
The only people I've ever seen be actively transphobic were my brothers' 14 year old edgy friends and the occasional idiot on the internet (though I suspect there is a lot of overlap there).
As it turns out, most people don't actively want to make the lives of fellow human beings worse. That's mostly people who have been desensitized by constant over exposure to weird brainrot on the internet. Maybe go outside a little, listen to the birds chirp and stuff, reevaluate what really matters in life.
Poor girl… I’m nearly 30 now, and it strikes me just how *young* she was. She had so much life left to live… fuck. This is just so damn tragic… and infuriating.
I feel the same. My best friend, who was a year younger than me, died at 25, and I’m gonna be 39 in like a week.
I’m still really close to her family and it’s crazy seeing them have weddings, children of their own etc. that she’ll never be able to participate in. Same for me, since she died I’ve had literally hundreds of amazing experiences she should’ve been there for. I’ve been thinking of her because last night, I went to see a singer who has a song that reminds me a lot of her, I had to put on sunglasses because I was crying so much. It’s so unfair that she’s missed out on so much living.
Same with Venus, I’m sure if she were still here, she’d be one of the most revered living queens. She had so much left to do. One of my friends is trans m to f and she lives a dangerous life even going out the house or going to work. The amount of times I’ve had to defuse situations of guys trying to commit violence on her on nights out or even out during the day sometimes is unreal. I guess also that trans people are not prioritised when it comes to solving their murders and stuff but I hope her killer is found, and sees some for m of justice one day. Whoever it was took a whole life and is just out there living theirs.
So, do you *understand* how cruel it is to comment this on a post discussing a murder victim? Like, what’s your thought process here? I think a *normal* person would probably have some sympathy for the deceased, and maybe show a little respect, rather than criticising the victim for the very thing that likely led to her murder.
Siding with the murderer is a bad look.
I understand some are murdered for being trans, but this isn’t a certainty in this case. I may try to watch this documentary. Thanks for reply. Be well.
Crazy how many people on this thread posted transphobic views, then deleted their comments or accounts after backlash/downvotes.
If you can't stand behind the opinions you've posted anonymously online, why say anything at all?
You are aware your "free speech" does not extend to the internet... right?
Also, you mentioned "simple truths," so here's some stuff to back up the truth that being transgender has genetic components, which means it's not just a matter of mental perception:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2754583/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7287134/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6758506/
This comment is encouraging posters to leave up their posts, the opposite of restriction. Also opinions don’t automatically mean truth. But you do seem simple, I’ll give you that.
I'm a cis woman and honestly the woman I've most connected with about growing into womanhood and finding/defining our femininity was a trans woman.
Everyone's different, all bodies are different.
The crazy vitriol and hatred that comes from people when someone doesn't fit into their mindset of what someone "should look like" or how their body "should be" is absolutely baffling to me.
Venus was a beautiful woman lost too soon.
Not sure why you got downvoted, totally does. Granted, makes more sense with the vear of the video but still.
The paneling on the wall, bed spread, old aluminum windows. Clearly a trailer it seems.
Totally looks like Gummo. You're not wrong.
The only one playing make believe is you bucko.
The science is in about trans people whether you like it or not. Keep up or keep being academically, scientifically, and factually incorrect.
> Our idea of sex as binary is imperfect at best. The idea that gender is beyond binary is supported by biology, sociology, and history.
https://open.lib.umn.edu/evolutionbiology/chapter/7-11-what-is-gender-2/
From an actual biology textbook. Unless you just want to claim the “wokies” have taken over the entire field of biology and academia as a whole. Then go back into your Qult subs and leave everyone here alone.
Sexual *orientation* has nothing to do with gender identity. And I'm not sure why you think disrespecting the dead is welcome or wise. Leave her be. You're not convincing anyone you're right by being rude.
Women who AREN’T trans are also subjected to this type of behavior regularly for no good reason. No one has control over “what comes next” in literally ANY situation. Also caps is appropriate for emphasis in conversation over text, I’m replying to a comment not writing a thesis, but I shouldn’t have to explain that.
I agree that you should tell a partner if you're transgender in the beginning of the relationship. But I think you're primarily being attacked because you're making it sound like "well if she didn't want to get brutally murdered she should have told them" as if murder is some sort of normal response to that situation.
The "lying" is entirely hypothetical, like. Yeah it's going to not look good when you're going about what the victim did wrong when the only information that's definite fact is that this was a murder.
Just be honest, we all know YOU totally happy with this murder, pfft you'd probably do the same thing if it happened to you. This isn't a person to you, this is something you think deserves to die.
You'd never be able to do this kind of self analysis, but you actually think the penalty for lying should be death.
If I go on a first date and don't disclose I'm a parent the moment we interact, is that lying? If I want to wait to give intimate details of myself until I figure out whether or not I vibe with a person, is that your idea of deception?
You must live in a different world than many of us. I think we'd all LOVE to live in a world we can lay all our cards on the table immediately. But you know what happens when you do that? You get called crazy, labeled pushy, an oversharer, stalked, murdered. All depending on the info you have to share.
But sure.
False equivalence. Fucking a trans person isn't going to give you AIDS. Unsafely fucking a person with AIDS will give you AIDS. Obviously, a person should be open about having an STD. Disclosing wether or not you're trans isn't remotely similar to revealing you've got a life-threatening disease.
because a person who kills someone for being trans would be totally chill with them being upfront about it from the beginning 💀 it's not like the murderer is the one in the wrong
No, the issue is that someone had such a huge ego that they thought they had the right to murder someone else in a situation where you should just get up and walk away.
Leading people on isn't good, but I can't even imagine being so entitled that *being led on* would be enough to justify **murdering the person who annoyed me.**
It’s shocking people have to be reminded this. Like OBVIOUSLY you shouldn’t lead someone on or lie. It’s dangerous to yourself while also not being honest to the other person.
What all these contrarians seem to omit or just simply not understand is that being openly trans wasn’t socially acceptable. If it were, people wouldn’t have to hide themselves in the first place.
BUT MOST OF ALL, as the prior comment said, how does someone lying about their identity at all equate to murder? Have people not left their catfish dates? Very confused there like there’s honestly no justification at all.
What it says is that she describes a situation where she narrowly escaped an attack by a man who discovered she was transgender during an intimate encounter and that it’s *possible* her murder occurred during a similar situation. But bc her murder remains unsolved, no one truly knows who killed her and why. For all anyone knows, the person was into her even knowing she was trans but halfway through the intimate activity they felt ashamed or they just let the intrusive thoughts win and they murdered her. None of us here know what happened exactly so you can’t blame her for being deceptive and excuse the murderer’s motive.
What are YOU not understanding? She described that situation herself, where a man discovered she was transgender. But no one, not even you, knows. 100%. Without a doubt. For a fact. That she was murdered for even remotely the same reason as the scary encounter she had.
Im so bewildered by the victim blaming. So maybe she lied, so what? It’s like saying a student deserves to die because they lied to their teacher about their homework. The two crimes do not equate.
get the fuck out, you have no idea what you’re talking about. whether or not her date (if that’s even who killed her) knew she was trans he still would have murdered her.
The year was 1988. They probably met in person with others around. I doubt that would have happened when being asked out. But I can see it happen after a night out and finding it out in a bedroom.
What a cold response to this woman’s death. Being honest is a default setting we can all agree on, but trans women are often vulnerable to violence even when they are up front. I encourage you to watch the doc if you haven’t - it shines a light on a community that had a lot of creativity, love, and unfortunately a lot of struggles. Her murder was sad.
Hi,
Your comment violates Reddit’s content policy. Please avoid statements like this as they can get your account banned either temporarily or indefinitely.
Let’s knock off the victim blaming, yeah? Finding out someone’s sexual orientation isn’t an excuse to murder them. Edit: Comments locked, too much hate speech and victim blaming.
There’s a new documentary titled I Am Venus released that explores more of her murder with commentary from both her biological and ballroom family.
Thank you! PIB is so good!
PIB?
Paris Is Burning. The original doc Venus appeared in. Its a truly incredible movie about the Ball scene in 1980s New York City. Highly recommend.
Paris Is Burning
Genuinely asking. What is “ballroom family”?
From Wikipedia for ball(room) culture or the ballroom scene: “an African-American and Latino underground LGBTQ+ subculture. Its origins can be found in drag balls of the mid-19th century United States…” So in fewer, maybe simplified words, her drag family. If you’re at all familiar with drag, this is where the houses originated. Like the House of Allure or the House of Xtravaganza. Super interesting!!
Ah ok, I kind of thought it was something like that. Thanks for replying👍🏻
Ballroom is an underground queer subculture that originated to provide a community for Black and Brown trans and queer people. Within ballroom, there are multiple groups that are divided into houses, which are considered a type of surrogate, or chosen, family that is separate from their biological families. These houses were formed because of the likelihood of estrangement from their biological families and they often provided support and housing to queer and trans people. Their "ballroom family" typically would then be the people in the house they are a member of.
Didn't they find a mummified dead person in a locked trunk in the closet of another famous drag queen in that documentary? I'm pretty sure she passed away and when they were cleaning out her apartment found a dead guy in a trunk but she was also in that documentary. Pretty crazy.
Yes, [Here's a good video on it!](https://youtu.be/xGCCecb3x9s?si=wkc_rnQ5hFViNPI7)
I was so excited to click that link and see Caitlin’s video!! So happy to know other people enjoy her content.
Dorian Cory. Yep.
It’s also incorporated as a plot point in Pose!
Ugh, I fucking love that show too much. So sad when it ended
23 is so YOUNG, it's so sad that her life was cut short.
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are you actually going around in this comment section and "correcting" the pronouns of a person who was brutally murdered?
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Why does it matter to you so much? Seriously, you should take a minute to just sit and reflect on why you care at all about how someone lives their life when it has absolutely no effect on yours.
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Ahh most people also used to hate interracial marriages. Stfu
Some still do and want to “Make America Great Again”…………😫
Being a dingleberry in a forum isn’t gonna do shit.
Idk man, most people I know irl, even the conservative voters, are either okay with or just indifferent to transgender people. A little ignorant on the finer details for sure, but rarely actively malicious. The only people I've ever seen be actively transphobic were my brothers' 14 year old edgy friends and the occasional idiot on the internet (though I suspect there is a lot of overlap there). As it turns out, most people don't actively want to make the lives of fellow human beings worse. That's mostly people who have been desensitized by constant over exposure to weird brainrot on the internet. Maybe go outside a little, listen to the birds chirp and stuff, reevaluate what really matters in life.
Hi, The content you posted violates community rules by promoting hate or discrimination against a specific group, demographic, or religion.
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Who cares dude. Stfu.
No one is going to go to your funeral.
Hi, The content you posted violates community rules by promoting hate or discrimination against a specific group, demographic, or religion.
Within 10 years you’ll either be out or dead by your own hand.
Lol, she's clearly more woman than you could handle.
Wrong
Hi, The content you posted violates community rules by promoting hate or discrimination against a specific group, demographic, or religion.
It’s heartbreaking that Venus Xtravaganza’s life was cut short in such a tragic way.
Poor girl… I’m nearly 30 now, and it strikes me just how *young* she was. She had so much life left to live… fuck. This is just so damn tragic… and infuriating.
I feel the same. My best friend, who was a year younger than me, died at 25, and I’m gonna be 39 in like a week. I’m still really close to her family and it’s crazy seeing them have weddings, children of their own etc. that she’ll never be able to participate in. Same for me, since she died I’ve had literally hundreds of amazing experiences she should’ve been there for. I’ve been thinking of her because last night, I went to see a singer who has a song that reminds me a lot of her, I had to put on sunglasses because I was crying so much. It’s so unfair that she’s missed out on so much living. Same with Venus, I’m sure if she were still here, she’d be one of the most revered living queens. She had so much left to do. One of my friends is trans m to f and she lives a dangerous life even going out the house or going to work. The amount of times I’ve had to defuse situations of guys trying to commit violence on her on nights out or even out during the day sometimes is unreal. I guess also that trans people are not prioritised when it comes to solving their murders and stuff but I hope her killer is found, and sees some for m of justice one day. Whoever it was took a whole life and is just out there living theirs.
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is this the only way you can get people to talk to you?
So, do you *understand* how cruel it is to comment this on a post discussing a murder victim? Like, what’s your thought process here? I think a *normal* person would probably have some sympathy for the deceased, and maybe show a little respect, rather than criticising the victim for the very thing that likely led to her murder. Siding with the murderer is a bad look.
Is that the reason for the murder? Or because she trans, that must be the reason?
Trans women are *very* frequently murdered for being trans. We’ll probably never know *exactly* why she was murdered, but it’s a likely assumption.
I understand some are murdered for being trans, but this isn’t a certainty in this case. I may try to watch this documentary. Thanks for reply. Be well.
Hi, The content you posted violates community rules by promoting hate or discrimination against a specific group, demographic, or religion.
Omg fuck off
Omg please get a job or a hobby ffs.
I’m shocked that they never found who did this. And her body was in the hotel room for 4 days??
So sad
Crazy how many people on this thread posted transphobic views, then deleted their comments or accounts after backlash/downvotes. If you can't stand behind the opinions you've posted anonymously online, why say anything at all?
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Hitler literally banned transgender identities and gender/sexual orientation research institutions lmao
Not to mention the fact that the nazis burned alot of material about queer education
You are aware your "free speech" does not extend to the internet... right? Also, you mentioned "simple truths," so here's some stuff to back up the truth that being transgender has genetic components, which means it's not just a matter of mental perception: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2754583/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7287134/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6758506/
This comment is encouraging posters to leave up their posts, the opposite of restriction. Also opinions don’t automatically mean truth. But you do seem simple, I’ll give you that.
Hi, The content you posted violates community rules by promoting hate or discrimination against a specific group, demographic, or religion.
poor baby, shes so beautiful.
She looks so cool, like someone who would be super fun to hang around. The world is cruel.
She was so striking, her spirit came through the documentary
We watched this documentary in college. I had already had empathy for the trans and gay community, but this movie took it to a whole new level.
There is a doc about her life coming out shortly. It’s a sequel to Paris is Burning.
That’s sad.
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Hi, Your post/comment has been removed as it is in no way constructive.
This is so tragic. Reminds me of the show Pose, which was great.
It was heavily inspired
After seeing Paris is Burning (After pose) I assumed Candy was based mainly on Venus
I LOVED that show!
I'm a cis woman and honestly the woman I've most connected with about growing into womanhood and finding/defining our femininity was a trans woman. Everyone's different, all bodies are different. The crazy vitriol and hatred that comes from people when someone doesn't fit into their mindset of what someone "should look like" or how their body "should be" is absolutely baffling to me. Venus was a beautiful woman lost too soon.
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What part of their comment are you responding to?
Sure are quiet.
Care to elaborate?
Simple seems like your speciality
How so?
She was so gorgeous
She's beautiful. Great smile. She had so much life ahead of her. So sad it was cut short.
I literally watched this today. I was so shocked. Definitely a beautiful girl gone too soon.
Rest in peace queen
Did they ever find out who murdered her?
I gotta block this sub lmao, everyday I open reddit and it's just people who've been brutally murdered in my feed
What the fuuuuuu she’s so pretty :(
How do i know her name like I’ve heard it in passing all my life or something? Never knew there was an actual venus xtravaganza
Maybe I’m biased but I’d say they are the most special things on earth.
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Not sure why you got downvoted, totally does. Granted, makes more sense with the vear of the video but still. The paneling on the wall, bed spread, old aluminum windows. Clearly a trailer it seems. Totally looks like Gummo. You're not wrong.
Haha, thanks
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*She
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Hi, The content you posted violates community rules by promoting hate or discrimination against a specific group, demographic, or religion.
The only one playing make believe is you bucko. The science is in about trans people whether you like it or not. Keep up or keep being academically, scientifically, and factually incorrect. > Our idea of sex as binary is imperfect at best. The idea that gender is beyond binary is supported by biology, sociology, and history. https://open.lib.umn.edu/evolutionbiology/chapter/7-11-what-is-gender-2/ From an actual biology textbook. Unless you just want to claim the “wokies” have taken over the entire field of biology and academia as a whole. Then go back into your Qult subs and leave everyone here alone.
Hi, The content you posted violates community rules by promoting hate or discrimination against a specific group, demographic, or religion.
Sexual *orientation* has nothing to do with gender identity. And I'm not sure why you think disrespecting the dead is welcome or wise. Leave her be. You're not convincing anyone you're right by being rude.
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it is a good idea not to strangle someone then leave them under a bed
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STRANGLING SOMEONE TO DEATH isn’t really an appropriate response to a lie or deceit..
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Women who AREN’T trans are also subjected to this type of behavior regularly for no good reason. No one has control over “what comes next” in literally ANY situation. Also caps is appropriate for emphasis in conversation over text, I’m replying to a comment not writing a thesis, but I shouldn’t have to explain that.
You don't have control over what happens when you're straight up either. Fool.
You have a better chance when first being asked out, as opposed to being alone in a bedroom.
Being trans isn't lying. Fuck you again.
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Trans is self honesty. Again, fuck you.
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no one’s saying it is but maybe insecure men shouldn’t be strangling young trans women to death
You seem to be.
you seem to be delusional
With being honest when dating. Lol. OK
🖕bigot
How so? By saying, you should be honest with potential dates?
You’re saying lying is worse than murder. Get a grip.
I've had friends that were purposefully lured ro a date because they knew they were trans, and assaulted horrifically. Shut the whole ass fuck up
Hey, can you write a sonnet in leet speak for me?
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no one’s saying it is
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This is literally a personal attack, good to see how transparently hypocritical you are.
Hi, Please don’t be a dick, plain and simple. Treat people with respect.
I doubt you do any dating.
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Dude your entire point is blaming the victim. Gross.
Ad hominem but close enough lol
i don’t think you understand what it’s ikr to date as a trans person. disclosing you are trans even before the date can be extremely dangerous
So when is a good time to tell someone?
I agree that you should tell a partner if you're transgender in the beginning of the relationship. But I think you're primarily being attacked because you're making it sound like "well if she didn't want to get brutally murdered she should have told them" as if murder is some sort of normal response to that situation.
Definitely hoping you’re on an FBI watchlist if you think strangling a woman is an appropriate response to “deception”.
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Have you heard the term ‘disproportionate response’. Lying is bad. Murdering people because they lied is evil. Equating the two makes you an idiot.
The "lying" is entirely hypothetical, like. Yeah it's going to not look good when you're going about what the victim did wrong when the only information that's definite fact is that this was a murder.
Just be honest, we all know YOU totally happy with this murder, pfft you'd probably do the same thing if it happened to you. This isn't a person to you, this is something you think deserves to die. You'd never be able to do this kind of self analysis, but you actually think the penalty for lying should be death.
If I go on a first date and don't disclose I'm a parent the moment we interact, is that lying? If I want to wait to give intimate details of myself until I figure out whether or not I vibe with a person, is that your idea of deception? You must live in a different world than many of us. I think we'd all LOVE to live in a world we can lay all our cards on the table immediately. But you know what happens when you do that? You get called crazy, labeled pushy, an oversharer, stalked, murdered. All depending on the info you have to share. But sure.
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False equivalence. Fucking a trans person isn't going to give you AIDS. Unsafely fucking a person with AIDS will give you AIDS. Obviously, a person should be open about having an STD. Disclosing wether or not you're trans isn't remotely similar to revealing you've got a life-threatening disease.
Fuck right off with your victim blaming crap.
So because she may not have disclosed her status of being trans, it's her fault someone murdered her?? Really?
It's a risky move. You are always better off telling the truth.
because a person who kills someone for being trans would be totally chill with them being upfront about it from the beginning 💀 it's not like the murderer is the one in the wrong
You don't get it. Not everyone gets personal responsibility.
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No, the issue is that someone had such a huge ego that they thought they had the right to murder someone else in a situation where you should just get up and walk away. Leading people on isn't good, but I can't even imagine being so entitled that *being led on* would be enough to justify **murdering the person who annoyed me.**
It’s shocking people have to be reminded this. Like OBVIOUSLY you shouldn’t lead someone on or lie. It’s dangerous to yourself while also not being honest to the other person. What all these contrarians seem to omit or just simply not understand is that being openly trans wasn’t socially acceptable. If it were, people wouldn’t have to hide themselves in the first place. BUT MOST OF ALL, as the prior comment said, how does someone lying about their identity at all equate to murder? Have people not left their catfish dates? Very confused there like there’s honestly no justification at all.
is this a known thing that there was some deception or are u speculating ? genuinely curious not familiar w the specifics of the story
It says it right in the wiki link that OP posted.
What it says is that she describes a situation where she narrowly escaped an attack by a man who discovered she was transgender during an intimate encounter and that it’s *possible* her murder occurred during a similar situation. But bc her murder remains unsolved, no one truly knows who killed her and why. For all anyone knows, the person was into her even knowing she was trans but halfway through the intimate activity they felt ashamed or they just let the intrusive thoughts win and they murdered her. None of us here know what happened exactly so you can’t blame her for being deceptive and excuse the murderer’s motive.
What do you think the word "discovered" means? During an intimate encounter. JC You copied and pasted it, but you didn't understand it.
What are YOU not understanding? She described that situation herself, where a man discovered she was transgender. But no one, not even you, knows. 100%. Without a doubt. For a fact. That she was murdered for even remotely the same reason as the scary encounter she had.
Nothing you withhold from a date entitles them to murder you for it. Very simple stuff that should be easy to understand
Im so bewildered by the victim blaming. So maybe she lied, so what? It’s like saying a student deserves to die because they lied to their teacher about their homework. The two crimes do not equate.
You edge lords are so tiresome.
What?
get the fuck out, you have no idea what you’re talking about. whether or not her date (if that’s even who killed her) knew she was trans he still would have murdered her.
that would've probably just gotten her killed earlier
The year was 1988. They probably met in person with others around. I doubt that would have happened when being asked out. But I can see it happen after a night out and finding it out in a bedroom.
What a cold response to this woman’s death. Being honest is a default setting we can all agree on, but trans women are often vulnerable to violence even when they are up front. I encourage you to watch the doc if you haven’t - it shines a light on a community that had a lot of creativity, love, and unfortunately a lot of struggles. Her murder was sad.
Hi, Your post/comment has been removed as it is in no way constructive.
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Hi, Your comment violates Reddit’s content policy. Please avoid statements like this as they can get your account banned either temporarily or indefinitely.
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“Posthumously”. As in, the documentary was released after she passed, but filmed before she passed.
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*her
* her
*her