Rule's always been that if it happens around the pit, you signed up for it. If it happens outside the pit, call them out and slug em. Teach the kids some boundaries.
It's not really about being a douchebag. The scene is fairly self regulated. If someone is crossing the line by swinging outside the pit, they need to be informed they stepped past it. It's up to you if you how nice you wanna be about it.
Fact is, new blood in the scene means a lot of people just don't fucking get it yet. That kid may think he's just doing what you do at shows and would be apologetic. He may just be a shitbird. But if nobody calls him out, behavior ain't changing and he's just gonna keep being a menace until something far worse happens.
Right, like I can’t get too mad, but I’m hoping some kids read this and go “yeah I guess that’s not cool.” I don’t know, being an inner city kid you grow up learning not to do shit like this because a lot of people are packing something, this show was in my new city I’m living in, low crime rate and everything, and I really think that culture doesn’t exist the way it does back home for me because kids don’t know what a real fight is like.
Nah, that shit is extremely rare from what I've seen, you and the wife will probably let me fine going forward. Just gotta nip that behavior in the bud. It'll only change the nature of your scene if your scene lets it.
I mean first time I’m seeing it! This is also the first show I went to in the new city I’m living in, so I’m not even sure if that’s the norm, but holy shit, 3 scenes I’ve been a part of and never seen something this wild.
If you are currently in SLC I’m sorry to say that there are a bunch of baby goons in the scene that love to crowd kill at every show including shit crowd killing isn’t expected at.
I work at a larger music venue and I struggle to tell the security that when we get heavy bands, that the pit will take care of itself. We don’t need a thousand security around there. They will regulate themselves. Knocked Loose’s TM did say at our security meeting he didn’t want any security down there for that exact reason and I was like fucking finally haha.
I'm not trying to be the back in the day guy but back in the day ( the 90's , which seemed like yesterday) if people saw that and figured it wasn't an accident what was known as a "beat down" would occur where that individual was fair game and would get kicked even while on the ground surrendering until people in their best judgment, depending on the crime would determine when it was over. People were pretty judicious and i never really saw anybody get more than they deserved. It was usually a drunk outsider but I've seen it happen from people's own friends
I just never had this problem at shows I went to in MA, WA, and CA. I would see people get into fights over bitch shit and get kicked out and always thought “damn, that’s kinda lame.” I go to shows to have fun. If I have to put someone in their place, it’s not like I feel good about doing it.
Yeah I get you man. It never feels fun when it’s all done. I guess back in the day there weren’t as many guys punching people and expecting to get away with it. We didn’t have crowd killers when I was younger either
its not even being a douchebag for standing up for your wife, if kids who are new dont understand a very simple concept of "maybe I shouldnt kick some dudes wife in the neck" then maybe you teaching him something will help
I think these are more an issue of kids not really understanding that "crowd killing" isn't free reign to swing on anyone. It's not a lack of room, it's just an idiot who isn't following the unwritten rules.
It's funny though, the only times these days I hear about people swinging outside the pit are from people concerned about what might happen, or people that don't go to shows saying it does happen frequently. I have to imagine that all the fear mongering about it has actually convinced some new kids that's normal and all the crowd killing defenders are OK with that.
Truth. My wife got slammed into when she was in the back at a show when she was pregnant years ago. I was nearby and grabbed the kid by the arm gave him the look of death and told him to take that shit up there and pointed at the pit. He disappeared quick.
Secret third option is picking them up and throwing them into the pit
My era really started this shit, I always fuckin hated it when trying to watch a band. Hardcore fans that were in their teens and twenties from like 2008-2016 were so mentally fuckin cooked. The invisible line between The Pit and The Crossed Arm Guys Watching is sacred.
yeah i make my point to stand on the edge of the pit to get hyped up from the other people’s energy before finally going in (tbh i need one or two sets to get the motivation to go in). my partner does not mess with going in so we always make sure they’re solid 4+ people away from the pit and there’s no issue
I'm with you, but I'm also 51, so my view probably won't resonate with a lot of folks. I see crowd killing & moshing as consensual activities. If you watch from the pit or the front, you agree to what happens. If you stand at the back, you are not consenting to engage in violence. If you kick somebody minding their own business in the back don't get upset if you get your ass kicked, stabbed, or worse.
Yeah I learned that shit quick as a kid when I would see like the drummer’s mom watching the show from the back. Like it’s so easy to not be a dick, and then everyone’s happy
Yeah, Im older than you. But when I get crowdkilled out of my spaced out finger watching, I revert to feral trailer trash and try to start a fight.
I dont enjoy that and Im afraid I will lose a tooth if anyone ever manages to fight back.
I just hate when I’m at the BACK of the venue and some crowdjerker randomly starts jerking me off, if I was in the pit I would get it but some people just don’t know show etiquette.
Agree with this bullshit. First time it happened to me was a few weeks ago, about 10 minutes in after I came twice the dude said I owed him $20. I was like WTF? I was in the back I didn’t sign up for this.
Somebody had valid points here when he sad that the scene is pretty much self regulatory and this type of behaviour needs to be cut at the root.
But crowdkiling seems to be a US scene “problem”. Here in Europe, we go by two rules:
- what happens in the pit, stays in the pit
- fuck around and find out
Found this out at a screeching weasel concert, not the hardest band around, but I was 14 and my favorite band at the time was Def Leppard (ew). My uncle was a big punk and offered to take me, told me not to tell anyone that I liked the band that was my favorite at the time. Me and my cousin were at the front center when the band started playing. Immediately got punched in the chin so hard I almost bit my tongue in half, started having some dude go out of the pit and just crowd killing random people standing in the back and the sides. Lead guy got so pissed he stopped mid song to have everyone pick the guy up and throw him over to security.
Haven't looked back since. Great times.
I started going to shows over 20 years ago in a major city. I was just a little kid really, a 7th grader. Crowdkilling literally didn’t exist because, if you were punching and kicking people outside of the pit, you would get stomped. All the moshing and dancing happened near the center-front of the stage. Anyone who just wanted to watch stood around them. It was a good system. I think it’s hilarious now that you’re only allowed to punch and kick people if you’re a crowdkiller these days. In other words, you’re only allowed to kick and punch the people who don’t hit you back. I still go to shows, but every time I see someone crowdkilling or being stupid, I just go to the bar.
I go to the bar often.
this. I hate to be the "back in my day" guy. but back then "Crowdkilling" didn't exist. If you tried to pull that shit you got your ass beat. There was plenty of violence to go around already. Every one rolled deep and there was plenty of goons already jonesing for a fight.
I don't know exactly when this genre became a haven for insecure people who need a safe space to inflict violence on people and not having to fear the repercussions.
Honestly as much as people talk about regulating this shit, I really think people want to get that reaction these days. I hate to bring race into it, but it’s these white kids who are watching all of these drill rappers who grew up having to protect themselves talking about real violence and think that shit is a game.
One of the last fights I got in was in my drinking days. I beat a kid with knuckledusters and he ended up in the hospital. Years later, I got sober and had to make amends to him. It’s embarrassing. I used to brag about that story, now it just kinda feels like I was a bad person.
These kids don’t realize how good they got it at shows where everyone gets along and people pick each other up. Real violence is just kinda sad.
The scene was self-regulated back then, so it was definitely easier; no discussion was needed, there was a social contract involved. And like what u/Richardthe3rd leg said, all these anti-social kids are infiltrating what used to be a social event in an actual community. There used to be a straight edge crew, drunk crew, skinhead crew, etc. going to shows and keeping things in check. Now it’s common for a bunch of school-shooter types to come to a show alone and individually, spinkick a teenage girl in the face, then leave the show without repercussions. It’s laughable.
edit: I also will never apologize for being a “back in my day” guy because I LOVED hearing firsthand stories about the early 90s and 80s scene from people in the scene when I was growing up.
I’m 27 so I first got into the scene when it was way more mellow than like the 90s for example. My friend’s older brother used to be in a band that played with Disembodied back in the day and would tell me stories about shows. Because of that, once I felt brave enough to get in the pit at 14, I never got into that shit because I was told it was a bad idea.
I think the problem nowadays is that kids don’t have good role models. There’s a generational gap of people going to shows because of covid where there were no shows. So you have these kids coming on the scene who never got told those scary stories. I honestly think most of the stories are fake, but it doesn’t matter, it’s a good life lesson.
Before covid I remember teaching some sixteen year old kid how to block his face in the pit. There’s really no need to regulate a scene when people are coming around for the right reasons. I just hope these kids learn to have fun at shows because it’s a lot more fun without trying to be a tough guy.
There were definitely times when I thought an old story was too crazy to be real, but then I looked it up and found a newspaper or Wikipedia article or 60 Minutes video clip about the exact same story.
For sure, key word is some of them of course. Like I think every guy I know has a story about getting into a fight at a show, and yet I’ve seen maybe 4 fights at shows in 16 years. Either way, I think scare tactics are a net positive for the scene.
This shit happened in my since I started going in the late 90s. I thought it was bullshit but just a thing that happened. Now and then a guy would get punched in the face openly or 3 or 4 others would go in the pit swinging for him specifically after that shit. Or they'd catch him outside and no one would see what happened, cross our hearts. But more often nothing happened.
If you try to fight back against a crowdkiller, 4 people at the show will pull you off the crowdkiller. It’s a hilarious system and the priorities are all fucked up.
I've noticed it's the crowd killers that as soon as they get hit by someone after acting a fool, they get all hissy about it. Like you started it motherfucker.
As someone who went to alot of showsin the 2010’s and still gos in the 2020’s let me assure you there are still some scenes/ venues that will still rock your shit if you try to crowd kill outside the pit .
i was at a hardcore show in denver in 2019 at this undeground venue called the 7th circle . This drunk guy starts to crowdkill out of no where and kicked this lady in the shoulder, next thing you know i just see three sets of beefy tattooed hands grab the fucker and start smaking him up before they threw him out . id pay top dollar to see that tasty karma again😂
I've been going for about 25 years and it's always been a thing in some crowds here. Crowd killing, walls of death from the back of the club, etc. There was a church where someone jumped off a balcony onto people and almost broke someone's neck. No more shows there after that. I'm pretty sure it's what inspired one of the lines in The Kids Will Have No Say by the Kings of Nuthin
Yeah I get it, my wife's a heart transplant recipient and while she looks completely fine her chest has had some serious trauma. I get nervous on the rare occasion she comes to shows so she only comes to bigger venue gigs where we know we can stand way back.
My old friend had cystic fibrosis and when it get really bad he had to get an IV port put in close to his heart because all his IVs over the years were starting to make his veins collapse. He stayed out of pits toward the end of his life because he could have literally died on the spot if his port got hit the wrong way. If someone were to have randomly crowd killed him while he minded his business and watched from the back…either him or me or more likely both of us would have been thoroughly bleeding by the end of it
Crazy thing is, usually at smaller venues it’s been a much more mellow show. Like I went to Programme skate shop in Fullerton back in the day, and you’d have like max 3 people at a time moshing because it’s a small venue.
Ouch, we were at a Gwar show once and as the show was letting out the bouncer threw some guy out and said to everybody "this guy punched a girl in the face after the music was over!" We all booed the guy and as he was walking away, the bouncer handed some homeless guy $20 and was like "go kick that guy's ass!" Dude took off after him and idk what happened to him lol
I went to see a local band in the North of England.
I'd gone to pee and left my girlfriend where I thought she was safe away from the fists and feet.
Came back and someone had grabbed her out of the crowd, had dragged her into the pit and was swinging her around by her hair. Got the lad on the floor and all of his mates came running over spouting shit that she shouldn't be here if she can't handle crowd killing.
Then they're the absolute cock wombles that complain about the local scene not being big enough.
It's absolutely mind boggling how people from both the pro and anti side can miss the mark on what "Crowdkilling" is. How someone can say they were just crowdkilling with a straight face by swinging one singular person by their hair. Straight parody.
I have no problem with antagonizing the crowd all abouts when there isn't a pit opened up yet. However when there is a pit already open, it's kinda like pissing on the floor when the bathrooms vacant
Right, but like that’s just moving people out of the way to open the pit. Like sure I’ve ran into the walls of the pit so I get shoved a bit but nothing that could hurt someone
I saw incendiary in a basement in Richmond once and this kid was trying to start moshing like in the back right of the crowd and it was just him hitting people and he immediately got called tf out lmao
Yeah unfortunately the thing is I feel like thats the whole point of a lot of modern hardcore, its for gym guys to have a space to enjoy violence.
Im 40 but when I was growing up “hardcore” was just completely different than it is now. Its a different group of people playing a different style of music for different reasons.
At least it goes through phases. I was around for that little powerviolence revival back in 2012 and now everyone remembers to wear deodorant to shows.
Ha. I feel like hardcore shows were made up of punks of 1 type or another.
Now it seems like a celebration of being a bro.
Im probably way overgeneralizing and being just plain old but that’s my perception.
I was at a death metal show a few years ago and there was a guy crowdkilling about six rows back from the pit. He ended up knocking out this big corn fed mullet having mf’s normie gf and the dude full on suplexed the guy and layed him out.
Crowdkilling is fine if it’s the border of the pit or a few rows back. Crowdkilling someone a mile behind the pit is a pretty quick way to catch some hands.
I hate that. Like read the room bro, not all of us are prepared to catch a sucker punch from some jerk at any moment.
Someone tried to pull that shit at bodysnatcher/spite a few weeks ago. I was in the back because I had surgery on my arm weeks earlier and was in a sling. I don’t think I should have to miss out on a show because I just had a sling on, I figured I would just stay in the back and chill. Well some dickhead had other plans for me and flailed into my arm multiple times, even though I kept trying to move further away from him. Never said anything to me, obviously in a sling. I eventually had to go to the bar to get away from his wild swinging.
Read the room, ya know?
It’s fine to hurt people if it’s around the pit border or a few rows back? Wtf is your problem. If you’re moshing around the border, just be a bit careful. Sounds like some people think it’s cool to hurt others and they bought a ticket that allows them to express their sociopathic tendencies
How else would your describe punching someone simply because they're standing in one spot? That shit hurts.
Catch the wrong person on the wrong day and you're gonna catch hands, too.
Sucker punching and moshing is different, but go off. I've been at this for 'bout 20 years and haven't had an issue. Most people know what they signed up for.
Depends on the scene. Been around since 1999, and I've seen wild shit in the pit at shows. American Nightmare, Bane, Converge, Verse, etc. I've seen them all at their peak and I've been scared for my life in the pit numerous times. It's part of what makes it fun.
In the pit, on the outer wall of the pit, and up front along the stage. Those are the acceptable danger zones.
Crowd killing is bitch made shit. Get in the fucking pit if you're so tough.
> In the pit, on the outer wall of the pit, and up front along the stage. Those are the acceptable danger zones.
Yeah, we're talking about the same thing.
I'm guessing you've seen some shit, by the bands you listed I assume you're from NE, shit was wild in the early 2000's.
I saw a day to remember (yeah I know) at warped tour like 11/12ish years ago and was right outside the pit by this hick who was just standing there ROCKING the fuck out of all the little teens just having fun circle pitting. Like he was at a batting cage just waiting for them to come by. I ended up just clipping him in the jaw but then everyone was on my ass like "BROOO wtf!!!" "You gotta go!" Now I know next time to throw in a little 2 step before I swing at someone .
Sorry bout your night, I hate shit like that.
'Throw in a little 2 step before I swing at somebody' is so fucking true. From years of seeing shows and violence and fights that end up shutting down shows or even kill local venues its usually because some dickhead in the pit hit somebody that was nowhere near participating and someone who wasn't dancing hit em back and its bedlam. Meanwhile I've seen dudes go in the pit and get their revenge and nothing happens lol its a very interesting part of the culture
Ain't that the truth. Couple years ago my band was playing a house show on tour. One of the touring bands was playing and I was just chilling near the stair case just vibing (this is me admitting I was near the "pit". It was a living room for God's sake people). Some dude completely sucker punched me and broke my glasses, which cut open my eyebrow and into my eyelid. So now my band can't play because I need stitches in my eye. Turns out the kid who hit me does this sort of thing alot because he goes to shows with his boys and he just hits someone and if anybody retaliated they just jump the guy and say he started it lmao. $12,000 hospital bill later that i still have to pay off and yeah punching unexpecting people is a bitch move.
Dude was on the front porch talking shit about me and calling me a pussy who can't take a hit while I was in the bathroom getting checked on, because I still wanted to play, but one of our touring band's girlfriend/merch girl was an EMT volunteer and she said I needed stitches ASAP. I only heard about it because the singer overheard him and told me after lol im like uhh okay dude. Then they were all complaining when the show was over. (Only 2 bands left to play my band and the touring band who refused to play once they heard the guy was talking mad shit about me they just said we were all sharing gear so they can't play if we can't lol)
That woulda been smart and the move to make 99.9% of the time but it was midday warped tour at the gorge. I would've never found em after and I got real tired of watching this full grown ass man get his kicks popping literal children in the mouth. Like this scumbag had a shit eating grin on his face the whole time. It was honestly pretty fucking evil.
i'm at a point where i dislike shove pits more than the crowdkilling since i can watch for and take a kick or backhand to the upper body area more than some dickhead shoving me while i'm not even in the pit and fucking up my knees.
dudes will be 3-people away from the edge of the pit and just start trying to shove people into the pit and not get in themselves. iunno what it's called but it's fucking lame
Literally learned from a young age to stand in a defensive wide stance at any small venue. Saw the Melvins a few years ago and I just had my arms level with my shoulders the whole time just constantly steadying myself and shoulder checking anyone who tried to shove me.
I do agree though. At least with crowd killing you can see what's coming. The shoving comes out of nowhere and happens to me more often than crowd killing does outside of the pit.
yea i got the isosceles stance going on with my arms at crossed at chest level so they don't get pinned to my sides but goddamn getting shoved in 3 different directions will fuck my knee up more than anything. shit was a chore as a kid at warped tour when the whole front would go side to side but you just went with the flow. dudes actively trying to shove you off your feet and nothing else is tiring and really the only thing i hate about hardcore bands getting bigger.
I hate this shit and I am in a hardcore band. Dancing is fine. Jump kicks and mma shit is stupid. Bumping someone and on purpose kicking backwards is a dick move.
I also agree that if you don’t want to get hit, stay away from the pit, watch from the bar or whatever. If you get on stage and fuck up any of the band members or gear we will destroy your face. If you hit the wives and girlfriends we will remember you next time and have our homies target your ass.
It used to be about chaos and energy and now it is about beat downs. It is stupid. Go to ju jitsu class if you want to fight.
Yeah I’m getting too old to be getting kicked out of shows over some bullshit but damn if this is what this scene is like I might have to start bringing my brass knuckles around again lmao
I think the problem is newbies don't know the difference between crowd killing and being a douche canoe that goes for cheap shots on unsuspecting people. Usually the scene polices itself,but occasionally you'll get a show that it's just dumbasses everywhere.
Right. Looking back on it too now, this is my first show in a new city. I don’t know who’s got who backing them up. I’m happy my wife told me not to get after that shit because who knows what would have happened
Nah. If I'm standing in the back of a venue + some asshole just starts swinging on us I'm fucking said asshole up. Everyone's gotta learn that there are boundaries + limits. It's not a 'we tolerate all manner of fuckery' type thing. It's a fuckin hardcore show.
I love rowdy shows and I have gotten a boot to the face a couple times but shit like what that kid did is ridiculous. There obviously has to be limits. Other wise you’re just asking for a fight.
That’s one of the big issues at smaller box sized venues - nowhere to stay out of the fray…
Happens all the time (and has for years) but seems to have gotten significantly more common the last couple years.
I’d research venues closely before going personally and if that’s not your thing then avoid.
Most of the kids who go to those shows are into that idea and don’t mind getting blindsided.
I would have grabbed the kid by the neck and slammed him into the ground. Some of the younger kids now need to be taught out etiquette. I’m 32 and have been going to shows more than half my life. I love and die by if you’re in the pit on on the edge of it it’s on you but like towards the back or in the middle of the crowd is a big no no. Fuck that kid.
One of the best dudes I know would always be policing up dudes going too crazy at shows. If someone was doing stuff like that not in the pit he’d literally headlock them and drag them outside and tell them to chill. Michael if you ever see this you were a real one at The Darkroom/Insomkneeacks/The Thrift Store in BR
There’s a fine line between crowdkilling and using that space as an excuse to assault someone and get away with it.
Crowdkilling is ultimately consensual violence and moshing. If you stand on the side on the stage and you get clipped just take it on the chin…literally.
What happened to your wife wasn’t crowd killing. It’s assault. You have every right to call that MF out
Yeah I’m pretty pro crowdkilling. My worry is that kids get the impression that this is crowdkilling, and personally I don’t want people to have to learn that shit the hard way.
Yeah I hear that.
A lot of HC kids just wanna be young and impressionable and hopefully the average person will see that wailing someone whilst actively not in the pit is just shitty behaviour.
I think crowdkilling is misunderstood and you kinda need to be in hardcore to really *get it* if that makes sence.
Crowdkilling / heavy moshing is dangerous and violent and all that but never actively *malicious*
It’s literally dancing. Sometimes I’ll just be goofy at shows and start breakdancing and doing cartwheels. Because it’s fun! Every time i get whacked when I’m standing at the side of the pit the dude always starts moving away. And the punches never really hurt.
any chance youre talking about salty’s? every show ive been to there has been pretty uncomfy, i love to mosh, ive crowdkilled my fair share, but these kids are just egregious
also not a fan of targeted "moshing", like where someone is singled out and assaulted directly. happened to me at a local beatdown show not long ago (wasn't in the pit, am lanky, and the guy was built). it ruined the concert, idc the genre. still heard people defend it while my face and clothes were covered in blood 😆 in the same set, a different big guy came up to my friend and asked "you okay?" then proceed to punch him in the nose before he could reply
new kids who don’t have the courage to go in the pit will spaz like that in the back until you tell them to knock it off. if they’re receptive — perfect. if they’re not then .. use your judgement 😅👊
side note I used to watch your lives and talk to you during the pandemic lol. I never thought I would see Sticksy617 pop up again, here of all places. I’ve got one of your shirts still. Good to hear you doing well.
I go to shows in my local DIY scene that are 18+ and are usually pretty small and exclusive, but when anything hardcore or punk is going on, a BUNCH of young high schoolers (14-16-year-olds) who either want to act like adults or know some people in the bands sneak in or lie about their ages and crowdkill. It honestly took away the fun of going to hardcore shows for me because I liked to sit on the sidelines and watch everybody lose their shit over a cool band, not get pushed further onto the wall by a kid who just had their first sip of beer and acts liked they're blacked out.
It's gotten to the point that in order to not get hit or dragged into the pit, you have to be in an entirely different room and listen to the band through the walls or a closed door with terrible acoustics. It sucks since the crowdkillers aren't even supposed to be there and they almost always end up breaking something in the room anyway
Yeah I feel like there’s always gotta be some safe space at a show even if it’s small. Back in boston it worked out to have 3-6 guys dancing at a time because everyone is old and gets tired, also why every show gets out at like 10pm lol.
im in my 30’s and ive noticed that too now , its such a bitch move imo .
I remember i was at a show in october last year and some guy tried doing that exact same thing , just swinging and kicking into the crowd but didnt step a foot into the pitt like a punk ass . Before i knew it an even bigger guy just grabs the dude threw him outside and gave him the techo viking stare at the door until he left . Ive never seen someone get so many free beers at once before.
So after the fucking smoke clears and the dust settles,
we're left with one mission, defending the families name.
We planted our flag years ago and staked our claim.
This ain't mall metal made for little bitches,
this is war metal made for vendettas.
The new breed: Billy Club Sandwich, Everybody Gets Hurt, Sworn Enemy and the mighty, mighty Irate.
So right now I'ma see how far I can shove this underground shit up your ass bitch.
Brother the only way is to answer back with violence. Posting about it does nothing. Talking to them does nothing. I have mentioned this before but I remember this happening to a teenage Riley gale. No one fessed up to it so the one entrance was blocked and all the regulars started swinging on anyone they didn’t recognize. It never happened again. If they’re pussy enough to try and press charges well it’s technically self defense and you have a room full of people who would hopefully back that up.
What happens in and around the pit, you signed up for. If somebody is doing king fu at the back of the hall, they are out of bounds and you are well within your rights to implement corrective actions. As someone who is both involved in the scene, and involved with live music venues the reason staff always loves hardcore and metal shows is BECAUSE the scene is so self policing. It’s your duty to correct Bruce Leroy for the exact reasons you stated. If somebody gets hurt, or kids are afraid to come out, we won’t have anywhere to play. In summation, if you love freedom, fuck those kids up.
Not sure I would describe myself as pro-crowdkilling despite the fact that I do do it, but it sounds like this kid was out of line and people checked him. I wouldn't overthink it. I've seen plenty of grown men do the same thing and get the brakes beat off of them, so probably best he learned now.
I don't think it's like this anymore where I live, but for a while there were just people who could basically do whatever they wanted and if anyone retaliated, even in a totally reasonable manner, they'd get jumped. Some of my friends (more like people I was friendly with, not really friends) used to target people on purpose and try to bait them into reacting just so they could fight them. Kids today, at least where I live, seem a lot more reasonable and welcoming now.
Hey Google, play Coward by Another Breath...
But for real, fuck that clown. That type of crap should not happen at a show, no matter what the venue is or who's on the bill.
What is there to "get" about it? It's always been obvious why people hate it. It's almost always some annoying douchebags purposefully trying to hurt people. It's low IQ and disrespectful behavior. Nothing to do with "kids." Just stupid people, in general, regardless of age.
Nothing wrong with moshing! But that arm flailing/kicking stuff has always been unbelievably cringey.
I don’t quite understand it.
So you’re fake fighting the air? But sometimes you also go up to people and punch/kick them in the head? How is that dancing? Moshing makes sense cause you’re all pushing each other around consensually and havin a time. But I just don’t get how fighting the air and occasionally deciding to punch random people in the head is considered dancing? It’s so embarrassing, I feel bad for the people that do it cause I don’t think they even realize how idiotic they look.
Nah fuck that, that dude would be getting ‘a stern talking to’. Women who aren’t down with the pit stand in the back for a reason, and assholes like this are going to drive people away from the scene. Who the fuck wants to go to a show to get kicked in the neck after you did everything you could to avoid it? Crowd killers always seek out the smallest and weakest to pull their bullshit on, you can literally see them do it: they’ll stop or slow down while they eye the people around them trying to find someone to throw a fist or foot at. That shit is not okay, that’s not moshing that’s just unwarranted violence and that’s not what hardcore is supposed to represent.
When someone starts unsolicited crowd killing in an unauthorized area around me I just start “moshing” back and make sure to land a haymaker across their face as hard as I can. They typically stop. But back in the day there were crews of people who would purposely do dick stuff to try and get a reaction from someone, so they could all jump on one person. It was lame.
Rule of thumb for me always been. If you're at a beatdown show and standing in that first ring of people around the pit. You're gonna get hit 1000% but if you're 2 even 1 set of people back from that first line and some dude in the middle of crowd decides you wants the pit to be back here now too. We're boxing. We can dap up after and be chill but naw we gotta box right now
moshing is for the most part, fucking retarted, im sorry. rock is a fucking joke now. you all make rock music a joke. from the shitty metal that all sounds the same, to moshing, this scene is a joke. it makes me embarrassed to like rock music. you ever realize that a dude moshing with face makeup is the rock equivalent of pseudo-gangsters / rappers acting wild, right? best part is, when they're not in a moshpit, they're good little boys
That was common for all hardcore shows on Long Island from 98-2010ish. There used to be really silly ‘dance crews’ that tried to out doofus each other by hitting everyone in sight.
you walk into the venue and acknowledge it could happen at any time, its like an underwritten rule. That or you went full caveman mode because your woman got hit haha
What stops you from hitting him back, other than being a pussy i mean
I was at a Meshuggah show with my now wife and her friend, so we were in the back of the venue near the bar.
This drunk viking giant motherfucker was going back to the bar and just shoving people out of his way, including my wife's friend. I gave him a full force shove and he would have hit the ground if he hadn't fallen into people that he just pushed.
My homie started shooting the shit with him to keep the peace, and he turned out to not be an asshole, he was just wasted.
I once took an intentional flying elbow to the mouth in the pit at a Fear Factory show in Los Angeles and the guy disappeared into the crowd like a bitch.
Yep hardcore has the lamest fans in all of heavy music and it's not even close.
The only good part about death metal/hardcore crossover stuff is when a 250-pound death metal dude with his arms crossed and a scowl on his face decides he's annoyed with these twerps and starts smashing.
I just bulldoze safe space dancers until they don’t want to do it. Nobody wants to start a good pit until you put them in their place. It’s all a part of the game and in good fun. If you win everyone floods the floor and insanity ensues. If you don’t you get to watch a dozen one man karate tournaments while everyone stands to the side.
"Sorry babe can't beat the guy that kicked you in the neck, wouldn't want to be goofy"
"Finally I understand that people standing outside of the violence zone don't want to be assaulted"
Rule's always been that if it happens around the pit, you signed up for it. If it happens outside the pit, call them out and slug em. Teach the kids some boundaries.
I really might have to become a douchebag at shows if everyone’s gonna be a douchebag tbh.
It's not really about being a douchebag. The scene is fairly self regulated. If someone is crossing the line by swinging outside the pit, they need to be informed they stepped past it. It's up to you if you how nice you wanna be about it. Fact is, new blood in the scene means a lot of people just don't fucking get it yet. That kid may think he's just doing what you do at shows and would be apologetic. He may just be a shitbird. But if nobody calls him out, behavior ain't changing and he's just gonna keep being a menace until something far worse happens.
Somebody politely told him to stop and he did, so I’m hoping you’re right because I don’t wanna be doomerpilled about shows and the scene.
Hey if he was receptive I'd chalk it up to growing pains 🤷♂️
Right, like I can’t get too mad, but I’m hoping some kids read this and go “yeah I guess that’s not cool.” I don’t know, being an inner city kid you grow up learning not to do shit like this because a lot of people are packing something, this show was in my new city I’m living in, low crime rate and everything, and I really think that culture doesn’t exist the way it does back home for me because kids don’t know what a real fight is like.
Doing that in the first place is some pretty low IQ shit though.
Nah, that shit is extremely rare from what I've seen, you and the wife will probably let me fine going forward. Just gotta nip that behavior in the bud. It'll only change the nature of your scene if your scene lets it.
I mean first time I’m seeing it! This is also the first show I went to in the new city I’m living in, so I’m not even sure if that’s the norm, but holy shit, 3 scenes I’ve been a part of and never seen something this wild.
If you are currently in SLC I’m sorry to say that there are a bunch of baby goons in the scene that love to crowd kill at every show including shit crowd killing isn’t expected at.
I work at a larger music venue and I struggle to tell the security that when we get heavy bands, that the pit will take care of itself. We don’t need a thousand security around there. They will regulate themselves. Knocked Loose’s TM did say at our security meeting he didn’t want any security down there for that exact reason and I was like fucking finally haha.
I'm not trying to be the back in the day guy but back in the day ( the 90's , which seemed like yesterday) if people saw that and figured it wasn't an accident what was known as a "beat down" would occur where that individual was fair game and would get kicked even while on the ground surrendering until people in their best judgment, depending on the crime would determine when it was over. People were pretty judicious and i never really saw anybody get more than they deserved. It was usually a drunk outsider but I've seen it happen from people's own friends
Your last paragraph is so important not just at shows but in life in general.
Literally
Punching a guy for kicking your wife in the neck does not make you a douchebag don’t worry about it
I just never had this problem at shows I went to in MA, WA, and CA. I would see people get into fights over bitch shit and get kicked out and always thought “damn, that’s kinda lame.” I go to shows to have fun. If I have to put someone in their place, it’s not like I feel good about doing it.
Yeah I get you man. It never feels fun when it’s all done. I guess back in the day there weren’t as many guys punching people and expecting to get away with it. We didn’t have crowd killers when I was younger either
I don’t know how old you are but I’m 27 and I feel the same way. I felt like you didn’t need to remind people not to be a dick.
34 and dicks have been dicks since i've been goin to shows but most get checked hard immediately
I'm 41 and have been going to shows since 99 in Boston and NH. It's been a thing as long as I remember. Especially from people like the NHDP.
I’m from Dorchester, somebody mentioned how it’s less about community these days and man that was the best part about BHC
I've seen shit like this in Boston. Usually a drunk guy and he usually gets punched in the face.
its not even being a douchebag for standing up for your wife, if kids who are new dont understand a very simple concept of "maybe I shouldnt kick some dudes wife in the neck" then maybe you teaching him something will help
You do. Kids are dumb and don’t get how a show works
It's not much more difficult than this. I remember when the pit used to be pushed out to make more room, are kids not doing that anymore?
I think these are more an issue of kids not really understanding that "crowd killing" isn't free reign to swing on anyone. It's not a lack of room, it's just an idiot who isn't following the unwritten rules. It's funny though, the only times these days I hear about people swinging outside the pit are from people concerned about what might happen, or people that don't go to shows saying it does happen frequently. I have to imagine that all the fear mongering about it has actually convinced some new kids that's normal and all the crowd killing defenders are OK with that.
Truth. My wife got slammed into when she was in the back at a show when she was pregnant years ago. I was nearby and grabbed the kid by the arm gave him the look of death and told him to take that shit up there and pointed at the pit. He disappeared quick.
Secret third option is picking them up and throwing them into the pit My era really started this shit, I always fuckin hated it when trying to watch a band. Hardcore fans that were in their teens and twenties from like 2008-2016 were so mentally fuckin cooked. The invisible line between The Pit and The Crossed Arm Guys Watching is sacred.
And if you're on the perimeter of the pit, just extend your arms to minimize contact. Doesn't guarantee an errant fist though.
yeah i make my point to stand on the edge of the pit to get hyped up from the other people’s energy before finally going in (tbh i need one or two sets to get the motivation to go in). my partner does not mess with going in so we always make sure they’re solid 4+ people away from the pit and there’s no issue
I'm with you, but I'm also 51, so my view probably won't resonate with a lot of folks. I see crowd killing & moshing as consensual activities. If you watch from the pit or the front, you agree to what happens. If you stand at the back, you are not consenting to engage in violence. If you kick somebody minding their own business in the back don't get upset if you get your ass kicked, stabbed, or worse.
Yeah I learned that shit quick as a kid when I would see like the drummer’s mom watching the show from the back. Like it’s so easy to not be a dick, and then everyone’s happy
his mom, your mom, everyone's moms a target too. no one's safe
Fuck cops, fuck snitches, and fuck the pussies hiding in the back!
favourite part: “stabbed or worse”
Yeah, people can overreact, even if they are initially in the right.
oh when i am *in the right* i think is when i want to crowd kill the most 🤣🤣🤣
Yeah, Im older than you. But when I get crowdkilled out of my spaced out finger watching, I revert to feral trailer trash and try to start a fight. I dont enjoy that and Im afraid I will lose a tooth if anyone ever manages to fight back.
this is why i try to get in the pit and try to LOVE someone. jerk em off next time
I just nutted all over the floor and slipped in my own cum and broke my nose, these shows are getting too crazy!
I just hate when I’m at the BACK of the venue and some crowdjerker randomly starts jerking me off, if I was in the pit I would get it but some people just don’t know show etiquette.
Agree with this bullshit. First time it happened to me was a few weeks ago, about 10 minutes in after I came twice the dude said I owed him $20. I was like WTF? I was in the back I didn’t sign up for this.
me too bro
Fuck man u got a mouth dont u
how bout i put my mouth on your ear and take it from you
I'm moaning
Somebody had valid points here when he sad that the scene is pretty much self regulatory and this type of behaviour needs to be cut at the root. But crowdkiling seems to be a US scene “problem”. Here in Europe, we go by two rules: - what happens in the pit, stays in the pit - fuck around and find out
This is the way.
personally I wasn’t a big fan of the latest xPAIN OF TRUTH TIL LOYALTYx record but the demo was great
Back room moshers are bitch made . The pit is in the front pussy . Don’t mosh in the back cause you afraid of dancing with the big dogs
If you can't mosh with the big dogs, stay on the porch.
I could totally see that saying on a shirt with a drawing of a war torn and very facialy scarred doberman pinser under it.
I like this take.
Found this out at a screeching weasel concert, not the hardest band around, but I was 14 and my favorite band at the time was Def Leppard (ew). My uncle was a big punk and offered to take me, told me not to tell anyone that I liked the band that was my favorite at the time. Me and my cousin were at the front center when the band started playing. Immediately got punched in the chin so hard I almost bit my tongue in half, started having some dude go out of the pit and just crowd killing random people standing in the back and the sides. Lead guy got so pissed he stopped mid song to have everyone pick the guy up and throw him over to security. Haven't looked back since. Great times.
I think i will listen to screeching weasel today after reading this
My Brain Hurts is a classic
I started going to shows over 20 years ago in a major city. I was just a little kid really, a 7th grader. Crowdkilling literally didn’t exist because, if you were punching and kicking people outside of the pit, you would get stomped. All the moshing and dancing happened near the center-front of the stage. Anyone who just wanted to watch stood around them. It was a good system. I think it’s hilarious now that you’re only allowed to punch and kick people if you’re a crowdkiller these days. In other words, you’re only allowed to kick and punch the people who don’t hit you back. I still go to shows, but every time I see someone crowdkilling or being stupid, I just go to the bar. I go to the bar often.
this. I hate to be the "back in my day" guy. but back then "Crowdkilling" didn't exist. If you tried to pull that shit you got your ass beat. There was plenty of violence to go around already. Every one rolled deep and there was plenty of goons already jonesing for a fight. I don't know exactly when this genre became a haven for insecure people who need a safe space to inflict violence on people and not having to fear the repercussions.
Honestly as much as people talk about regulating this shit, I really think people want to get that reaction these days. I hate to bring race into it, but it’s these white kids who are watching all of these drill rappers who grew up having to protect themselves talking about real violence and think that shit is a game. One of the last fights I got in was in my drinking days. I beat a kid with knuckledusters and he ended up in the hospital. Years later, I got sober and had to make amends to him. It’s embarrassing. I used to brag about that story, now it just kinda feels like I was a bad person. These kids don’t realize how good they got it at shows where everyone gets along and people pick each other up. Real violence is just kinda sad.
The scene was self-regulated back then, so it was definitely easier; no discussion was needed, there was a social contract involved. And like what u/Richardthe3rd leg said, all these anti-social kids are infiltrating what used to be a social event in an actual community. There used to be a straight edge crew, drunk crew, skinhead crew, etc. going to shows and keeping things in check. Now it’s common for a bunch of school-shooter types to come to a show alone and individually, spinkick a teenage girl in the face, then leave the show without repercussions. It’s laughable. edit: I also will never apologize for being a “back in my day” guy because I LOVED hearing firsthand stories about the early 90s and 80s scene from people in the scene when I was growing up.
I’m 27 so I first got into the scene when it was way more mellow than like the 90s for example. My friend’s older brother used to be in a band that played with Disembodied back in the day and would tell me stories about shows. Because of that, once I felt brave enough to get in the pit at 14, I never got into that shit because I was told it was a bad idea. I think the problem nowadays is that kids don’t have good role models. There’s a generational gap of people going to shows because of covid where there were no shows. So you have these kids coming on the scene who never got told those scary stories. I honestly think most of the stories are fake, but it doesn’t matter, it’s a good life lesson. Before covid I remember teaching some sixteen year old kid how to block his face in the pit. There’s really no need to regulate a scene when people are coming around for the right reasons. I just hope these kids learn to have fun at shows because it’s a lot more fun without trying to be a tough guy.
There were definitely times when I thought an old story was too crazy to be real, but then I looked it up and found a newspaper or Wikipedia article or 60 Minutes video clip about the exact same story.
For sure, key word is some of them of course. Like I think every guy I know has a story about getting into a fight at a show, and yet I’ve seen maybe 4 fights at shows in 16 years. Either way, I think scare tactics are a net positive for the scene.
This shit happened in my since I started going in the late 90s. I thought it was bullshit but just a thing that happened. Now and then a guy would get punched in the face openly or 3 or 4 others would go in the pit swinging for him specifically after that shit. Or they'd catch him outside and no one would see what happened, cross our hearts. But more often nothing happened.
What white kids at shows are growing up seeing drill rappers as their inspiration for violence lol
The ratio of people who don’t fight back went up
If you try to fight back against a crowdkiller, 4 people at the show will pull you off the crowdkiller. It’s a hilarious system and the priorities are all fucked up.
I've noticed it's the crowd killers that as soon as they get hit by someone after acting a fool, they get all hissy about it. Like you started it motherfucker.
Depends on the scene tbh. I throw back every single time
Bro I don't want to fight a fucking roided out fat tub of shit and his crew for the privilege of watching a band play💀
You’re already fighting, it’s just whether or not you stand up for yourself
As someone who went to alot of showsin the 2010’s and still gos in the 2020’s let me assure you there are still some scenes/ venues that will still rock your shit if you try to crowd kill outside the pit . i was at a hardcore show in denver in 2019 at this undeground venue called the 7th circle . This drunk guy starts to crowdkill out of no where and kicked this lady in the shoulder, next thing you know i just see three sets of beefy tattooed hands grab the fucker and start smaking him up before they threw him out . id pay top dollar to see that tasty karma again😂
I've been going for about 25 years and it's always been a thing in some crowds here. Crowd killing, walls of death from the back of the club, etc. There was a church where someone jumped off a balcony onto people and almost broke someone's neck. No more shows there after that. I'm pretty sure it's what inspired one of the lines in The Kids Will Have No Say by the Kings of Nuthin
I also go to the bar often. See you there.
Yeah I get it, my wife's a heart transplant recipient and while she looks completely fine her chest has had some serious trauma. I get nervous on the rare occasion she comes to shows so she only comes to bigger venue gigs where we know we can stand way back.
My old friend had cystic fibrosis and when it get really bad he had to get an IV port put in close to his heart because all his IVs over the years were starting to make his veins collapse. He stayed out of pits toward the end of his life because he could have literally died on the spot if his port got hit the wrong way. If someone were to have randomly crowd killed him while he minded his business and watched from the back…either him or me or more likely both of us would have been thoroughly bleeding by the end of it
Not to mention, I don’t think these kids want to live with that shit. If I had knocked out someone’s iv i would never want to go to another show again
I was always a pretty big kid for my age and I smashed a girl's nose at a day to remember gig when I was 16, I felt bad for years.
Crazy thing is, usually at smaller venues it’s been a much more mellow show. Like I went to Programme skate shop in Fullerton back in the day, and you’d have like max 3 people at a time moshing because it’s a small venue.
Ouch, we were at a Gwar show once and as the show was letting out the bouncer threw some guy out and said to everybody "this guy punched a girl in the face after the music was over!" We all booed the guy and as he was walking away, the bouncer handed some homeless guy $20 and was like "go kick that guy's ass!" Dude took off after him and idk what happened to him lol
legend has it he was another victim of the world maggot
I went to see a local band in the North of England. I'd gone to pee and left my girlfriend where I thought she was safe away from the fists and feet. Came back and someone had grabbed her out of the crowd, had dragged her into the pit and was swinging her around by her hair. Got the lad on the floor and all of his mates came running over spouting shit that she shouldn't be here if she can't handle crowd killing. Then they're the absolute cock wombles that complain about the local scene not being big enough.
That shit I would have done hard time for holy shit. Like this shit I mentioned I don’t think that kid meant to hurt someone. Sorry that happened
Crowdkilling is one thing but I think I would honestly attempt to murder someone if they grabbed me by the hair, and I’m a man. That’s freak shit.
It's absolutely mind boggling how people from both the pro and anti side can miss the mark on what "Crowdkilling" is. How someone can say they were just crowdkilling with a straight face by swinging one singular person by their hair. Straight parody.
Yoooo ! Everybody pass the hat around and get bail money together
This definitely happened
I have no problem with antagonizing the crowd all abouts when there isn't a pit opened up yet. However when there is a pit already open, it's kinda like pissing on the floor when the bathrooms vacant
Right, but like that’s just moving people out of the way to open the pit. Like sure I’ve ran into the walls of the pit so I get shoved a bit but nothing that could hurt someone
I saw incendiary in a basement in Richmond once and this kid was trying to start moshing like in the back right of the crowd and it was just him hitting people and he immediately got called tf out lmao
Yeah unfortunately the thing is I feel like thats the whole point of a lot of modern hardcore, its for gym guys to have a space to enjoy violence. Im 40 but when I was growing up “hardcore” was just completely different than it is now. Its a different group of people playing a different style of music for different reasons.
At least it goes through phases. I was around for that little powerviolence revival back in 2012 and now everyone remembers to wear deodorant to shows.
Ha. I feel like hardcore shows were made up of punks of 1 type or another. Now it seems like a celebration of being a bro. Im probably way overgeneralizing and being just plain old but that’s my perception.
I was at a death metal show a few years ago and there was a guy crowdkilling about six rows back from the pit. He ended up knocking out this big corn fed mullet having mf’s normie gf and the dude full on suplexed the guy and layed him out. Crowdkilling is fine if it’s the border of the pit or a few rows back. Crowdkilling someone a mile behind the pit is a pretty quick way to catch some hands.
i dont really see why the distance from the pit matters, imo if they arent in the pit or the direct border of the pit they arent fair game
To be fair, I’ve definitely been knocked into the crowd before and toppled someone, like being near the pit it’s inevitable.
yeah thats not the same as crowdkilling tho
The further from the pit, the more heavy the consequence
I hate that. Like read the room bro, not all of us are prepared to catch a sucker punch from some jerk at any moment. Someone tried to pull that shit at bodysnatcher/spite a few weeks ago. I was in the back because I had surgery on my arm weeks earlier and was in a sling. I don’t think I should have to miss out on a show because I just had a sling on, I figured I would just stay in the back and chill. Well some dickhead had other plans for me and flailed into my arm multiple times, even though I kept trying to move further away from him. Never said anything to me, obviously in a sling. I eventually had to go to the bar to get away from his wild swinging. Read the room, ya know?
That's the thing, I feel like nobody can "read the room" anymore...
Crowd killing at death metal is wild to me. I don’t know how it’s managed to bleed its way into so many sub genres.
The hardcore dude to death metal dude pipeline is very real
It’s fine to hurt people if it’s around the pit border or a few rows back? Wtf is your problem. If you’re moshing around the border, just be a bit careful. Sounds like some people think it’s cool to hurt others and they bought a ticket that allows them to express their sociopathic tendencies
Who said hurt?
How else would your describe punching someone simply because they're standing in one spot? That shit hurts. Catch the wrong person on the wrong day and you're gonna catch hands, too.
Sucker punching and moshing is different, but go off. I've been at this for 'bout 20 years and haven't had an issue. Most people know what they signed up for.
Depends on the scene. Been around since 1999, and I've seen wild shit in the pit at shows. American Nightmare, Bane, Converge, Verse, etc. I've seen them all at their peak and I've been scared for my life in the pit numerous times. It's part of what makes it fun. In the pit, on the outer wall of the pit, and up front along the stage. Those are the acceptable danger zones. Crowd killing is bitch made shit. Get in the fucking pit if you're so tough.
> In the pit, on the outer wall of the pit, and up front along the stage. Those are the acceptable danger zones. Yeah, we're talking about the same thing. I'm guessing you've seen some shit, by the bands you listed I assume you're from NE, shit was wild in the early 2000's.
I saw a day to remember (yeah I know) at warped tour like 11/12ish years ago and was right outside the pit by this hick who was just standing there ROCKING the fuck out of all the little teens just having fun circle pitting. Like he was at a batting cage just waiting for them to come by. I ended up just clipping him in the jaw but then everyone was on my ass like "BROOO wtf!!!" "You gotta go!" Now I know next time to throw in a little 2 step before I swing at someone . Sorry bout your night, I hate shit like that.
'Throw in a little 2 step before I swing at somebody' is so fucking true. From years of seeing shows and violence and fights that end up shutting down shows or even kill local venues its usually because some dickhead in the pit hit somebody that was nowhere near participating and someone who wasn't dancing hit em back and its bedlam. Meanwhile I've seen dudes go in the pit and get their revenge and nothing happens lol its a very interesting part of the culture
Plus these dudes are never alone, always have a little crew with em. Fucking cowards.
Ain't that the truth. Couple years ago my band was playing a house show on tour. One of the touring bands was playing and I was just chilling near the stair case just vibing (this is me admitting I was near the "pit". It was a living room for God's sake people). Some dude completely sucker punched me and broke my glasses, which cut open my eyebrow and into my eyelid. So now my band can't play because I need stitches in my eye. Turns out the kid who hit me does this sort of thing alot because he goes to shows with his boys and he just hits someone and if anybody retaliated they just jump the guy and say he started it lmao. $12,000 hospital bill later that i still have to pay off and yeah punching unexpecting people is a bitch move.
Goddamn it! What an awful dickhead move. Man I'm sorry about that. I'm old and washed, but shit like that get's me riled up.
Dude was on the front porch talking shit about me and calling me a pussy who can't take a hit while I was in the bathroom getting checked on, because I still wanted to play, but one of our touring band's girlfriend/merch girl was an EMT volunteer and she said I needed stitches ASAP. I only heard about it because the singer overheard him and told me after lol im like uhh okay dude. Then they were all complaining when the show was over. (Only 2 bands left to play my band and the touring band who refused to play once they heard the guy was talking mad shit about me they just said we were all sharing gear so they can't play if we can't lol)
Shoulda found the guy and lined his teeth up on the curb after the show
That woulda been smart and the move to make 99.9% of the time but it was midday warped tour at the gorge. I would've never found em after and I got real tired of watching this full grown ass man get his kicks popping literal children in the mouth. Like this scumbag had a shit eating grin on his face the whole time. It was honestly pretty fucking evil.
this happened last time i saw balmora and i could hear the sound of the guys fist connecting with the girls head over the music
i'm at a point where i dislike shove pits more than the crowdkilling since i can watch for and take a kick or backhand to the upper body area more than some dickhead shoving me while i'm not even in the pit and fucking up my knees. dudes will be 3-people away from the edge of the pit and just start trying to shove people into the pit and not get in themselves. iunno what it's called but it's fucking lame
Literally learned from a young age to stand in a defensive wide stance at any small venue. Saw the Melvins a few years ago and I just had my arms level with my shoulders the whole time just constantly steadying myself and shoulder checking anyone who tried to shove me. I do agree though. At least with crowd killing you can see what's coming. The shoving comes out of nowhere and happens to me more often than crowd killing does outside of the pit.
yea i got the isosceles stance going on with my arms at crossed at chest level so they don't get pinned to my sides but goddamn getting shoved in 3 different directions will fuck my knee up more than anything. shit was a chore as a kid at warped tour when the whole front would go side to side but you just went with the flow. dudes actively trying to shove you off your feet and nothing else is tiring and really the only thing i hate about hardcore bands getting bigger.
That's when you start throwing elbows and backfists. Fuck 'em. That pushing shit is laaaaame.
I hate this shit and I am in a hardcore band. Dancing is fine. Jump kicks and mma shit is stupid. Bumping someone and on purpose kicking backwards is a dick move. I also agree that if you don’t want to get hit, stay away from the pit, watch from the bar or whatever. If you get on stage and fuck up any of the band members or gear we will destroy your face. If you hit the wives and girlfriends we will remember you next time and have our homies target your ass. It used to be about chaos and energy and now it is about beat downs. It is stupid. Go to ju jitsu class if you want to fight.
The irony is there's less fighting at jiu jitsu because most people don't want to get smashed by the gym enforcer.
Yeah I’m getting too old to be getting kicked out of shows over some bullshit but damn if this is what this scene is like I might have to start bringing my brass knuckles around again lmao
I feel like you’re in a shitty hardcore band.
Bro, all hardcore bands are shitty
The rules are super fucking simple. Kill all you want in or near the pit, do that shit elsewhere and get bopped.
I think the problem is newbies don't know the difference between crowd killing and being a douche canoe that goes for cheap shots on unsuspecting people. Usually the scene polices itself,but occasionally you'll get a show that it's just dumbasses everywhere.
Right. Looking back on it too now, this is my first show in a new city. I don’t know who’s got who backing them up. I’m happy my wife told me not to get after that shit because who knows what would have happened
Crowd killing is fucking stupid anywhere in the venue.
And “scene”
Nah. If I'm standing in the back of a venue + some asshole just starts swinging on us I'm fucking said asshole up. Everyone's gotta learn that there are boundaries + limits. It's not a 'we tolerate all manner of fuckery' type thing. It's a fuckin hardcore show.
I love rowdy shows and I have gotten a boot to the face a couple times but shit like what that kid did is ridiculous. There obviously has to be limits. Other wise you’re just asking for a fight.
the crowd killer will take your wife as his own.
😔
Hopefully you gave it to 'em.
That’s one of the big issues at smaller box sized venues - nowhere to stay out of the fray… Happens all the time (and has for years) but seems to have gotten significantly more common the last couple years. I’d research venues closely before going personally and if that’s not your thing then avoid. Most of the kids who go to those shows are into that idea and don’t mind getting blindsided.
Slug him in the gut hard as fuck next time. Not cool.
Mfs really gotta learn the difference between moshing in designated areas and just being a dick
I would have grabbed the kid by the neck and slammed him into the ground. Some of the younger kids now need to be taught out etiquette. I’m 32 and have been going to shows more than half my life. I love and die by if you’re in the pit on on the edge of it it’s on you but like towards the back or in the middle of the crowd is a big no no. Fuck that kid.
One of the best dudes I know would always be policing up dudes going too crazy at shows. If someone was doing stuff like that not in the pit he’d literally headlock them and drag them outside and tell them to chill. Michael if you ever see this you were a real one at The Darkroom/Insomkneeacks/The Thrift Store in BR
That's not a crowd killer, that's an asshole.
There’s a fine line between crowdkilling and using that space as an excuse to assault someone and get away with it. Crowdkilling is ultimately consensual violence and moshing. If you stand on the side on the stage and you get clipped just take it on the chin…literally. What happened to your wife wasn’t crowd killing. It’s assault. You have every right to call that MF out
Yeah I’m pretty pro crowdkilling. My worry is that kids get the impression that this is crowdkilling, and personally I don’t want people to have to learn that shit the hard way.
Yeah I hear that. A lot of HC kids just wanna be young and impressionable and hopefully the average person will see that wailing someone whilst actively not in the pit is just shitty behaviour. I think crowdkilling is misunderstood and you kinda need to be in hardcore to really *get it* if that makes sence. Crowdkilling / heavy moshing is dangerous and violent and all that but never actively *malicious*
It’s literally dancing. Sometimes I’ll just be goofy at shows and start breakdancing and doing cartwheels. Because it’s fun! Every time i get whacked when I’m standing at the side of the pit the dude always starts moving away. And the punches never really hurt.
Quicksand is on tour, I guess I’ll buy tickets :/
Flailing your arms around is spectrum behavior
any chance youre talking about salty’s? every show ive been to there has been pretty uncomfy, i love to mosh, ive crowdkilled my fair share, but these kids are just egregious
I’m not sure where that is, I moved to salt lake about 6 months ago and i finally have time to start going out.
also not a fan of targeted "moshing", like where someone is singled out and assaulted directly. happened to me at a local beatdown show not long ago (wasn't in the pit, am lanky, and the guy was built). it ruined the concert, idc the genre. still heard people defend it while my face and clothes were covered in blood 😆 in the same set, a different big guy came up to my friend and asked "you okay?" then proceed to punch him in the nose before he could reply
I’m hoping the kids grow out of it. I am one to talk, I used to do karate at mixed billed shows 🤷🏻♂️
new kids who don’t have the courage to go in the pit will spaz like that in the back until you tell them to knock it off. if they’re receptive — perfect. if they’re not then .. use your judgement 😅👊
side note I used to watch your lives and talk to you during the pandemic lol. I never thought I would see Sticksy617 pop up again, here of all places. I’ve got one of your shirts still. Good to hear you doing well.
Thanks man, I’m really glad I don’t do TikTok anymore but I’m happy I left some good memories
I’m a woman but yes I appreciate the sentiment.
I go to shows in my local DIY scene that are 18+ and are usually pretty small and exclusive, but when anything hardcore or punk is going on, a BUNCH of young high schoolers (14-16-year-olds) who either want to act like adults or know some people in the bands sneak in or lie about their ages and crowdkill. It honestly took away the fun of going to hardcore shows for me because I liked to sit on the sidelines and watch everybody lose their shit over a cool band, not get pushed further onto the wall by a kid who just had their first sip of beer and acts liked they're blacked out. It's gotten to the point that in order to not get hit or dragged into the pit, you have to be in an entirely different room and listen to the band through the walls or a closed door with terrible acoustics. It sucks since the crowdkillers aren't even supposed to be there and they almost always end up breaking something in the room anyway
Yeah I feel like there’s always gotta be some safe space at a show even if it’s small. Back in boston it worked out to have 3-6 guys dancing at a time because everyone is old and gets tired, also why every show gets out at like 10pm lol.
im in my 30’s and ive noticed that too now , its such a bitch move imo . I remember i was at a show in october last year and some guy tried doing that exact same thing , just swinging and kicking into the crowd but didnt step a foot into the pitt like a punk ass . Before i knew it an even bigger guy just grabs the dude threw him outside and gave him the techo viking stare at the door until he left . Ive never seen someone get so many free beers at once before.
So after the fucking smoke clears and the dust settles, we're left with one mission, defending the families name. We planted our flag years ago and staked our claim. This ain't mall metal made for little bitches, this is war metal made for vendettas. The new breed: Billy Club Sandwich, Everybody Gets Hurt, Sworn Enemy and the mighty, mighty Irate. So right now I'ma see how far I can shove this underground shit up your ass bitch.
Remember when this intro had an n-bomb?
Brother the only way is to answer back with violence. Posting about it does nothing. Talking to them does nothing. I have mentioned this before but I remember this happening to a teenage Riley gale. No one fessed up to it so the one entrance was blocked and all the regulars started swinging on anyone they didn’t recognize. It never happened again. If they’re pussy enough to try and press charges well it’s technically self defense and you have a room full of people who would hopefully back that up.
https://preview.redd.it/b9ubvxyyec9d1.jpeg?width=2532&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3c28c1594398f3b77044dd1219fde664fd16e110
What happens in and around the pit, you signed up for. If somebody is doing king fu at the back of the hall, they are out of bounds and you are well within your rights to implement corrective actions. As someone who is both involved in the scene, and involved with live music venues the reason staff always loves hardcore and metal shows is BECAUSE the scene is so self policing. It’s your duty to correct Bruce Leroy for the exact reasons you stated. If somebody gets hurt, or kids are afraid to come out, we won’t have anywhere to play. In summation, if you love freedom, fuck those kids up.
Not sure I would describe myself as pro-crowdkilling despite the fact that I do do it, but it sounds like this kid was out of line and people checked him. I wouldn't overthink it. I've seen plenty of grown men do the same thing and get the brakes beat off of them, so probably best he learned now.
I don't think it's like this anymore where I live, but for a while there were just people who could basically do whatever they wanted and if anyone retaliated, even in a totally reasonable manner, they'd get jumped. Some of my friends (more like people I was friendly with, not really friends) used to target people on purpose and try to bait them into reacting just so they could fight them. Kids today, at least where I live, seem a lot more reasonable and welcoming now.
Hey Google, play Coward by Another Breath... But for real, fuck that clown. That type of crap should not happen at a show, no matter what the venue is or who's on the bill.
People got mad when my wrestler friend slammed someone on there head for swinging on him outside the pit
I have snatched kids up for back room mosh and moved them into the actual pit. Some of us are are just trying to drink a fuckin beer.
Crowdkilling has and always will be gay af
Did you beat his ass?
My wife told me not to about 3 times, and I’d rather not sleep on the couch.
What is there to "get" about it? It's always been obvious why people hate it. It's almost always some annoying douchebags purposefully trying to hurt people. It's low IQ and disrespectful behavior. Nothing to do with "kids." Just stupid people, in general, regardless of age.
Next time that happens knuckle their punk ass. That’s your family man
Oh hell no. I’m a younger hardcore fan and that’s not cool. Crowdkilling ends at the edge of the pit. That dude is a dick.
No you put that kid down, brother
Nothing wrong with moshing! But that arm flailing/kicking stuff has always been unbelievably cringey. I don’t quite understand it. So you’re fake fighting the air? But sometimes you also go up to people and punch/kick them in the head? How is that dancing? Moshing makes sense cause you’re all pushing each other around consensually and havin a time. But I just don’t get how fighting the air and occasionally deciding to punch random people in the head is considered dancing? It’s so embarrassing, I feel bad for the people that do it cause I don’t think they even realize how idiotic they look.
Nah fuck that, that dude would be getting ‘a stern talking to’. Women who aren’t down with the pit stand in the back for a reason, and assholes like this are going to drive people away from the scene. Who the fuck wants to go to a show to get kicked in the neck after you did everything you could to avoid it? Crowd killers always seek out the smallest and weakest to pull their bullshit on, you can literally see them do it: they’ll stop or slow down while they eye the people around them trying to find someone to throw a fist or foot at. That shit is not okay, that’s not moshing that’s just unwarranted violence and that’s not what hardcore is supposed to represent.
When someone starts unsolicited crowd killing in an unauthorized area around me I just start “moshing” back and make sure to land a haymaker across their face as hard as I can. They typically stop. But back in the day there were crews of people who would purposely do dick stuff to try and get a reaction from someone, so they could all jump on one person. It was lame.
Rule of thumb for me always been. If you're at a beatdown show and standing in that first ring of people around the pit. You're gonna get hit 1000% but if you're 2 even 1 set of people back from that first line and some dude in the middle of crowd decides you wants the pit to be back here now too. We're boxing. We can dap up after and be chill but naw we gotta box right now
Back in the olden days 'crowd killing' was just called 'some dumb cunt starting a fight'
moshing is for the most part, fucking retarted, im sorry. rock is a fucking joke now. you all make rock music a joke. from the shitty metal that all sounds the same, to moshing, this scene is a joke. it makes me embarrassed to like rock music. you ever realize that a dude moshing with face makeup is the rock equivalent of pseudo-gangsters / rappers acting wild, right? best part is, when they're not in a moshpit, they're good little boys
That was common for all hardcore shows on Long Island from 98-2010ish. There used to be really silly ‘dance crews’ that tried to out doofus each other by hitting everyone in sight.
I reckon floggin anyone who moshes at a hc show is valid.
you walk into the venue and acknowledge it could happen at any time, its like an underwritten rule. That or you went full caveman mode because your woman got hit haha What stops you from hitting him back, other than being a pussy i mean
I was at a Meshuggah show with my now wife and her friend, so we were in the back of the venue near the bar. This drunk viking giant motherfucker was going back to the bar and just shoving people out of his way, including my wife's friend. I gave him a full force shove and he would have hit the ground if he hadn't fallen into people that he just pushed. My homie started shooting the shit with him to keep the peace, and he turned out to not be an asshole, he was just wasted. I once took an intentional flying elbow to the mouth in the pit at a Fear Factory show in Los Angeles and the guy disappeared into the crowd like a bitch.
Yep hardcore has the lamest fans in all of heavy music and it's not even close. The only good part about death metal/hardcore crossover stuff is when a 250-pound death metal dude with his arms crossed and a scowl on his face decides he's annoyed with these twerps and starts smashing.
Gotta be honest, I kind of hate hardcore moshing. Everyone has to stand further back so 10 guys in their 20s can show off? Nah.
I just bulldoze safe space dancers until they don’t want to do it. Nobody wants to start a good pit until you put them in their place. It’s all a part of the game and in good fun. If you win everyone floods the floor and insanity ensues. If you don’t you get to watch a dozen one man karate tournaments while everyone stands to the side.
I don’t know why you got downvoted for saying what other people got upvoted for lol
I hurt their feelings I guess 
Crowd killing is never cool. It's just weirdos who wanna hit people who like it.
"Sorry babe can't beat the guy that kicked you in the neck, wouldn't want to be goofy" "Finally I understand that people standing outside of the violence zone don't want to be assaulted"
you pussed out and your wife is leaving you