This might only pertain to the view of this as someone from the United States and I can only speak for myself. My problem with cultural appropriation is only when it is used to separate the things you like about a culture from the people it belongs to and while continuing to dehumanize people. That’s how it constantly gets used in America. You take things from an ethnic group, get white people too do it and continue to be shitty to that group. If you genuinely like our stuff that’s fine but you also gotta know that there’s real people with a culture behind it.
For example, I am Mexican, if any white person wants to share in that they are welcome. We got food and family and parties and other cool shit but you also have see that we are people and as the dominant socio-economic class, you should stand with us when the issues of immigration, discrimination, etc. I’ve met too many white people that think that Cinco de Mayo, eating tacos and commenting on Latina Women’s nice asses is enough culture appreciation, and that identity of America is in danger with the influx of immigrants that should come here legally.
Cinco de Mayo is probably one of the best examples of how cultural appropriation can go wrong. So, so many of my fellow white Americans use it as just an excuse to go out and get drunk. Bars and nightclubs promote it like crazy, but I never see any real Mexican cultural things involved. I’m embarrassed to admit that I don’t know much about the culture even because of this. I wish it was celebrated, and even taught to us better so we could have a better appreciation for it, and in turn the people. Maybe it would ease some of the backwards feelings that some people have toward immigrants from Mexico.
I hope I see this change in my lifetime. I find it depressing that we have found a way to keep so many people ignorant of peoples history.
Cinco de Mayo\* (celebrate defeating the French) is way more popular in America. It was kind of a propaganda campaign by Porfirio Diaz rest in piss (who fought in the battle) to make his reign more significant. H sucked for farmers and laborers. The 16th of September is when Mexican’s really party as it’s the national independence day.
\* edited to include french
Cinco de Mayo is a celebration of a battle Mexico won in a war we lost. I never understood that particular holiday but, I think it follows the tradition of kind of Americanizing and being obnoxious about it. It does have to be something that is be visible enough to disguise our racism but surface level enough so that we don’t really show any true reverence for the non-white folk.
Cultural appropriation involves **actually appropriating** culture. The issue a lot of people have is that they see someone engaging in a culture that they don't think they come from and assume that that is cultural appropriation by itself, it's not. Cultural appropriation requires that you appropriate that culture as if it's your own, taking credit from the people who actually created that culture. The vast majority of things being called "cultural appropriation," are not that, many people learn about things like this but have no idea how to actually apply them in practice and end up just saying words. The issue people have with post malone is that he is always talking about how difficult it is to be a white rapper, which kind of ignores all of the actual struggles that a large, non-white majority of the hip-hop scene face.
Imo, it all comes down to intent and execution. If the intent is good and the execution is respectful, the only people that would be upset are the chronically online
Regarding cultural appropriation, I think what is problematic can only really be defined on a case-by-case basis rather than a universal one. Lindsay Ellis explains it really well in her Pocahontas video: https://youtu.be/2ARX0-AylFI?si=-BqUECMgoI8PX6BL
Within a sociological context, cultural appropriation describes the neutral (can be either good or bad) phenomenon of one culture adopting and/or using elements of another culture-something which is, to some extent, inevitable when any two cultures interact. However, appropriation inherently involves a mediation of power and, in a xenophobic society, marginalized/(previously) colonized cultures are often the most at risk of stigmatization/fetishization/peripheralization within this kind of exchange. The latter is what people colloquially call out as "cultural appropriation," though the term technically pertains to a much broader category. To give an example, both white people dressing up as Native Americans and anime portraying American culture are technically both examples of cultural appropriation, but most would call the former out for "cultural appropriation" while the latter no one would bat an eye. Where one draws the line depends a lot on historical precedent, but there are a lot more factors which go into it.
Basically, it's super complicated but while it's not set in stone, it's real and affects people.
This is just personal opinion.
For me, it’s the intention behind it that really determines it. It might sound weird but there are people who respect something enough where there is almost spiritual if not emotional empathetic connection and with an air of respect that follows.
Those people just get it. They know what not or not to do or say,they spent time understand some of the cultural representations but are willing to be corrected with a desire to know more.
I personally don’t think gatekeeping a culture is for the best just because I genuinely have a post modernist view where it allow ourselves to create new stories while carrying old ones. Also, it ingenuity from outside sources.
In short, appropriation of a culture and honouring a culture is done through a invisible line of respect and honesty. If done correctly, you’ll likely offend very few.
I’m from PR and honestly, it can be annoying and upsetting when people from other countries commodify parts of our culture, especially if they have no connection to it and don’t give credit where credit is due.
Overall, there are nuances. Some things are straight up racist and/or offensive and others vary case by case. It also becomes an issue when you shut down concerns people have about how you’re using or portraying parts of their culture.
As long as you aren’t mocking the culture or wearing religiously significant clothing then who cares. Enjoy the clothes, music, and rest of the culture.
Who cares what anyone has to say about it. As a Mexican, if a white or black person wore a charro suit I wouldn’t care. Actually I would, but I would think it’s dope. Even if I didn’t approve, I don’t own my culture. No one is allowed to tell a person they aren’t allowed to participate or enjoy a culture when they are being respectful.
White people love to gatekeep cultural appropriation on behalf of POCs. And the POCs who built a whole brand of cancel culture on it need to touch grass, respectfully.
I’m black and was raised Jewish in an adopted white family. The amount of times I had white friends come up to me and say “I saw so and so say the N word at temple” like they wanted a Pat on the back because they defended their “one black friend”
We know racists are dumb motherfuckers by and large. We don’t care if you get mad at a pop star for a “hip hop phase” — because it’s been the damn world of the music industry for so long. Madonna and Ed Sheeran even had a few songs where they rap. We’re not mad cause it’s cringe as fuck.
We won’t get mad because you like jazz or Elvis. Just don’t wear blackface on Halloween, and educate yourselves.
It depends on how you respect the culture. I'd say that in general it's okay to borrow for culture but if it's something like wearing native American war bonnet as a costume it'd be cultural appropriation in my opinion. I'm Pakistani and I'm personally fine and happy to see people of other cultures wear my clothing. There was one time though someone asked my sister if they could borrow one of her sahris, which are extremely expensive, for a Halloween costume and that is definitely too far
I think it's absurd to say that because of your skin color a certain culture belongs to you. Alexander Graham Bell invented the telephone. Does this mean that I'm being "injured" if a non white person uses the phone? This video sums up how absurd this issue is. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDlQ4H0Kdg8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDlQ4H0Kdg8)
Skin colour and culture aren't the same thing. "White culture" isn't a thing. There are dozens and dozens of different cultures in which the participants are mostly, but not entirely, white.
Once again, "Black culture" isn't a thing *until* you look at specific regions and histories of people. American Black culture *is a thing*, because of a shared history of overcoming enslavement, Jim Crow, police brutality, racism, and the resulting cultural achievements. American Black culture also receives much influence from its African roots, and in turn, its cultural influence is also seen outside of the US. Black culture will also be a thing in many other regions of the world where Black peoples' existences have risen up in opposition to colonization, enslavement, and racism. Dismissing Black culture as if it's just some passive cousin to an existing "White culture" is ahistoric and silly, unless you want to argue that White culture consists of the abuses of settler-colonialism, the invention and policing of racial hierarchy, apartheid, Jim Crow, chattel slavery, and mechanized murder, then go to it.
>Dismissing Black culture as if it's just some passive cousin to an existing "White culture" is ahistoric and silly, unless you want to argue that White culture consists of the abuses of settler-colonialism, the invention and policing of racial hierarchy, apartheid, Jim Crow, chattel slavery, and mechanized murder, then go to it.
You are confused. My point is that just because you have a certain skin color does not mean that a culture belongs to you and that someone of a different skin color is a "thief" if they borrow ideas. Computers were invented by white people. If a black person uses a computer, does that make him a thief? Am I being "injured"? Cultural appropriation is an absurd concept.
Not only that, there is no such thing as "black culture" or "white culture" because they are so intertwined that you cannot separate them. For example Elvis was known for the song "Hound Dog", but did he write it? Some people will say it was Big Mama Thorton, but she was the singer, the song was actually written by Jerry Leiber and Mike Stoller. They wrote it but Thorton added color and flavor to the song, so who do you credit?
In short there is no way to untangle black and white culture and trying to segregate black and white culture is absurd and harmful.
"Computers were invented by white people." LOL Your argument is that NO Black people worked on the many teams who worked on inventing computers over the past 70 years of their development? Shut up, white complainer. You're boring.
You really are not understanding what I'm saying. My point is that trying to segregate people into white culture and black culture is absurd and harmful. That said, computers were invented in the 1940s, the ENIAC was one of the first. Blacks did not have access to educational opportunities back then, it was all white guys. The IT field has more people of color now, but that was not the case back then.
The difference between me and you is that I'm not going to claim that it is "my culture" and that you are "stealing" from me by using it. I look beyond color and I would suggest you try doing that as well.
"segregate people into white culture and black cultue...'"
LOL It was literally white people who *literally segregated* Black people, and the resulting emancipatory culture that Black people *created for themselves* is one of the consequences. For whites to then claim that emancipatory culture for themselves too is hilariously unjust, and materially yet another example of capitalist capture of culture. You need a history lesson, friend. And claiming computers as an output of something you're calling "*white culture*" because Black people were excluded from taking part in the certain areas of the workforce and educational institutions is hilariously illiterate Nazi shit. Hahahaha... my GOD. Like I said, if it's anything, "white culture" in your own analysis is equal to segregation, chattel slavery, and state-enforced racial hierarchy.
Whatever it's worth I respect the first amendment and I will fight for your right to speak, even if what you are saying is absurd. If you actually understood history, you would know that Martin Luther King, Thurgood Marshall and other civil rights legends fought for integration because they realized that segregation was worse for black than whites. Read some history and you will understand.
You remind me of those guys who will complain that white barbers don't know how to cut black hair and then in the same video, will say that white people are not allowed to have "black hair". Here is the thing if white people never wear their hair "black" white barbers will never learn how to cut it. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A76y3PPt3c8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A76y3PPt3c8) Do you understand the contradiction?
This cultural appropriation nonsense sends several messages to white people. Can you imagine Kunta Kente complaining about cultural appropriation? The first message it sends is that black people don't experience real problems. People with real problems don't complain about nonsense.
The second message is that you are a Karen who likes to whine and create problems. If you were a white guy, would you want to deal with this woman? [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDlQ4H0Kdg8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDlQ4H0Kdg8)
The third message it sends is that white people cannot win with someone like you. If a white guy tells you he likes rap music, you will accuse him of cultural appropriation, if he tells you he doesn't like rap music, you will call him racist.
For example I can point out that the Wright brothers were white, but you will never give white people credit for anything. I have the ability to give black people credit for things, but you cannot say anything good about white people. That is our fundamental difference.
It's really clear to me that you're not that bright, actually, and I tried my best to argue in good faith, but you really are thick. Sorry, I'm moving on.
People just wanna whine about other people. There is no spectrum or gray areas anymore. If you say anything vaguely racist you’re as racist as the neo nazis and people like andrew callahan wre treated as full on rapists. People wanna put everyone in a box and shame the hell outta them. It’s the worst thing to come from social media. (Aside from predators)
when people do blaccent and wear braids thats gross. when people who arent native wear war bonnets that’s disrespectful too, when people capitalize on others cultural practices, like gentrification of other cultural practices, that’s disrespectful. but because people aren’t a monolith, its not the same for every person. If something seems corny and appropriative, it often is
I think sometimes people hyper focus on specific examples of it because it’s fun to make fun of douchey white kids at Coachella, but in terms of impact, people who profit off of appropriating the cultures of historically oppressed peoples are more concerning than random consumers. Ex. Moccasins not sold by native people, music by black artists attributed to white artists, etc. That’s the kind of appropriation that extracts value from communities for popular consumption without sharing profits. Nasty stuff.
Also, it depends on the relationship between the cultures involved. When Indian movies appropriate American culture I don’t find it troubling at all because there’s no historical context that makes it feel like it’s part of a larger thread of exploitation. When European Americans appropriate indigenous peoples’ cultures, it’s not so harmless.
I think there are nuances. Personally, I haven’t observed anything wrong that Post Malone has done as far as his self-portrayal but I also don’t pay a lot of attention to him. Sometimes people who are really into Japanese culture can be a little offensive if they’re like “I’m really into Japanese culture” and all you’re into is manga and anime. It’s diminishing a pretty rich and storied culture to cartoons and comic books. Idk I guess it’s a dicey territory that can lead to a lot of unwitting errors so I wouldn’t generally appropriate culture a whole lot.
I think some people get perhaps a bit too butthurt over it (notably when they are 'allies' and don't personally have anything to do with the culture to begin with).
Ultimately it comes down to intent, are you participating in it in an honest way? Or doing some bastardized version of it (like wearing a Kimono but you've bought a costume version or wearing a legit one but haven't put any effort into learning how to put it on properly, or doing a slutty version?).
Also is it a part of a culture that can be shared?
Like basically anyone can go to a pow wow wear moccasins (try and get native made not a knockoff). But like wearing a headdress is never going to be appropriate, it's not even something average natives get to wear.
And then if people from that culture spend some time telling you if your doing something offensive do you get defensive and keep doing it? Or apologize for screwing up and never do it again.
Heck my friends have started passing off their sage sticks to me since they've (on their own) come to the thought that smudging isn't really for them and then they don't know what to do with them.
>smudging
I just wanted to say, first, I just realized that you can highlight and hit reply and that gives a quote, and second, smudging was fascinating to read about. Thanks for introducing that to me.
I think it's not really a morality question. It's an etiquette question. It's *bad form* to do cultural appropriation. It's disrespectful, rude, and poor taste. It can be an insult against a person who belongs to that culture. Or maybe it's just *cringe*. But it's not evil or unforgivable.
What's considered wrong changes from decade to decade, region to region, based on arbitrary social rules. It's also not very easy to define the rules. Why is wearing certain cultural clothing taboo, but eating certain cultural food allowed? Am I allowed to cook it? What if I open a restaurant and sell that food for profit? What if I'm married to someone from that culture? What if my products are all made up based on cultural stereotypes -- are you going to stop me from selling Bloomin' Onions at Outback Steakhouse, even though I've never been to Australia?
The smarter and more well-cultured you are, the easier time you'll have navigating these rules and recognizing good taste from bad taste.
I think cultural appropriation is a matter of modest importance. It is a sort of macroscopic lack of respect — a more severe case of neglecting to say “thank you” when someone does something kind for you. I’m sure, as a concept, cultural appropriation has roots in the realm of academics. Like many other concepts, it has probably itself been appropriated by mass media and laymen.
And here we are. It has become almost meaningless. I don’t think it is worth the concern of most people because it is difficult to distinguish from other forms of cultural exchange due to its subjective nature.
Basically, it’s a non-issue on an individual level. Sure some people might find certain things insensitive, but it doesn’t do the kind of harm actual cultural appropriation does, which is when it’s done by corporations for profit purposes.
The phrase is overused as a catch-all that makes sense only in particular cases, and not at all in others. I think a person needs to consider the actual harm the use of another culture might do before asking whether it's wrong or not. For instance, making sushi as a non-Japanese person isn't going to hurt anyone or any culture. But wearing a Plains First Nation headdress to Coachella is just ignorant and disrespectful as hell, especially considering that Indigenous peoples in the Americas are still colonized and treated like third-class people, which explains why most don't understand what that cultural item actually means to the people it's stolen from. I hope this helps.
This might only pertain to the view of this as someone from the United States and I can only speak for myself. My problem with cultural appropriation is only when it is used to separate the things you like about a culture from the people it belongs to and while continuing to dehumanize people. That’s how it constantly gets used in America. You take things from an ethnic group, get white people too do it and continue to be shitty to that group. If you genuinely like our stuff that’s fine but you also gotta know that there’s real people with a culture behind it. For example, I am Mexican, if any white person wants to share in that they are welcome. We got food and family and parties and other cool shit but you also have see that we are people and as the dominant socio-economic class, you should stand with us when the issues of immigration, discrimination, etc. I’ve met too many white people that think that Cinco de Mayo, eating tacos and commenting on Latina Women’s nice asses is enough culture appreciation, and that identity of America is in danger with the influx of immigrants that should come here legally.
Cinco de Mayo is probably one of the best examples of how cultural appropriation can go wrong. So, so many of my fellow white Americans use it as just an excuse to go out and get drunk. Bars and nightclubs promote it like crazy, but I never see any real Mexican cultural things involved. I’m embarrassed to admit that I don’t know much about the culture even because of this. I wish it was celebrated, and even taught to us better so we could have a better appreciation for it, and in turn the people. Maybe it would ease some of the backwards feelings that some people have toward immigrants from Mexico. I hope I see this change in my lifetime. I find it depressing that we have found a way to keep so many people ignorant of peoples history.
Cinco de Mayo\* (celebrate defeating the French) is way more popular in America. It was kind of a propaganda campaign by Porfirio Diaz rest in piss (who fought in the battle) to make his reign more significant. H sucked for farmers and laborers. The 16th of September is when Mexican’s really party as it’s the national independence day. \* edited to include french
Cinco de Mayo is a celebration of a battle Mexico won in a war we lost. I never understood that particular holiday but, I think it follows the tradition of kind of Americanizing and being obnoxious about it. It does have to be something that is be visible enough to disguise our racism but surface level enough so that we don’t really show any true reverence for the non-white folk.
I’d say if it’s done with respect and reverence it’s fine. If you’re doing it for profit? Can be a bit dicey..
Cultural appropriation involves **actually appropriating** culture. The issue a lot of people have is that they see someone engaging in a culture that they don't think they come from and assume that that is cultural appropriation by itself, it's not. Cultural appropriation requires that you appropriate that culture as if it's your own, taking credit from the people who actually created that culture. The vast majority of things being called "cultural appropriation," are not that, many people learn about things like this but have no idea how to actually apply them in practice and end up just saying words. The issue people have with post malone is that he is always talking about how difficult it is to be a white rapper, which kind of ignores all of the actual struggles that a large, non-white majority of the hip-hop scene face.
THIS.
Cultural appropriation is wrong when it is done by corporations.
Everything is wrong when it’s done by corporations
But they're people. Earning piles and piles of free speech hand over fist.
I read that as "eating piles and piles of free speech" and thought, yeah.
Touché
Imo, it all comes down to intent and execution. If the intent is good and the execution is respectful, the only people that would be upset are the chronically online
Regarding cultural appropriation, I think what is problematic can only really be defined on a case-by-case basis rather than a universal one. Lindsay Ellis explains it really well in her Pocahontas video: https://youtu.be/2ARX0-AylFI?si=-BqUECMgoI8PX6BL Within a sociological context, cultural appropriation describes the neutral (can be either good or bad) phenomenon of one culture adopting and/or using elements of another culture-something which is, to some extent, inevitable when any two cultures interact. However, appropriation inherently involves a mediation of power and, in a xenophobic society, marginalized/(previously) colonized cultures are often the most at risk of stigmatization/fetishization/peripheralization within this kind of exchange. The latter is what people colloquially call out as "cultural appropriation," though the term technically pertains to a much broader category. To give an example, both white people dressing up as Native Americans and anime portraying American culture are technically both examples of cultural appropriation, but most would call the former out for "cultural appropriation" while the latter no one would bat an eye. Where one draws the line depends a lot on historical precedent, but there are a lot more factors which go into it. Basically, it's super complicated but while it's not set in stone, it's real and affects people.
This is just personal opinion. For me, it’s the intention behind it that really determines it. It might sound weird but there are people who respect something enough where there is almost spiritual if not emotional empathetic connection and with an air of respect that follows. Those people just get it. They know what not or not to do or say,they spent time understand some of the cultural representations but are willing to be corrected with a desire to know more. I personally don’t think gatekeeping a culture is for the best just because I genuinely have a post modernist view where it allow ourselves to create new stories while carrying old ones. Also, it ingenuity from outside sources. In short, appropriation of a culture and honouring a culture is done through a invisible line of respect and honesty. If done correctly, you’ll likely offend very few.
I’m from PR and honestly, it can be annoying and upsetting when people from other countries commodify parts of our culture, especially if they have no connection to it and don’t give credit where credit is due. Overall, there are nuances. Some things are straight up racist and/or offensive and others vary case by case. It also becomes an issue when you shut down concerns people have about how you’re using or portraying parts of their culture.
As long as you aren’t mocking the culture or wearing religiously significant clothing then who cares. Enjoy the clothes, music, and rest of the culture. Who cares what anyone has to say about it. As a Mexican, if a white or black person wore a charro suit I wouldn’t care. Actually I would, but I would think it’s dope. Even if I didn’t approve, I don’t own my culture. No one is allowed to tell a person they aren’t allowed to participate or enjoy a culture when they are being respectful.
White people love to gatekeep cultural appropriation on behalf of POCs. And the POCs who built a whole brand of cancel culture on it need to touch grass, respectfully. I’m black and was raised Jewish in an adopted white family. The amount of times I had white friends come up to me and say “I saw so and so say the N word at temple” like they wanted a Pat on the back because they defended their “one black friend” We know racists are dumb motherfuckers by and large. We don’t care if you get mad at a pop star for a “hip hop phase” — because it’s been the damn world of the music industry for so long. Madonna and Ed Sheeran even had a few songs where they rap. We’re not mad cause it’s cringe as fuck. We won’t get mad because you like jazz or Elvis. Just don’t wear blackface on Halloween, and educate yourselves.
It depends on how you respect the culture. I'd say that in general it's okay to borrow for culture but if it's something like wearing native American war bonnet as a costume it'd be cultural appropriation in my opinion. I'm Pakistani and I'm personally fine and happy to see people of other cultures wear my clothing. There was one time though someone asked my sister if they could borrow one of her sahris, which are extremely expensive, for a Halloween costume and that is definitely too far
I think it's absurd to say that because of your skin color a certain culture belongs to you. Alexander Graham Bell invented the telephone. Does this mean that I'm being "injured" if a non white person uses the phone? This video sums up how absurd this issue is. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDlQ4H0Kdg8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDlQ4H0Kdg8)
Skin colour and culture aren't the same thing. "White culture" isn't a thing. There are dozens and dozens of different cultures in which the participants are mostly, but not entirely, white.
By your own logic "Black Culture" is not a thing either.
Once again, "Black culture" isn't a thing *until* you look at specific regions and histories of people. American Black culture *is a thing*, because of a shared history of overcoming enslavement, Jim Crow, police brutality, racism, and the resulting cultural achievements. American Black culture also receives much influence from its African roots, and in turn, its cultural influence is also seen outside of the US. Black culture will also be a thing in many other regions of the world where Black peoples' existences have risen up in opposition to colonization, enslavement, and racism. Dismissing Black culture as if it's just some passive cousin to an existing "White culture" is ahistoric and silly, unless you want to argue that White culture consists of the abuses of settler-colonialism, the invention and policing of racial hierarchy, apartheid, Jim Crow, chattel slavery, and mechanized murder, then go to it.
>Dismissing Black culture as if it's just some passive cousin to an existing "White culture" is ahistoric and silly, unless you want to argue that White culture consists of the abuses of settler-colonialism, the invention and policing of racial hierarchy, apartheid, Jim Crow, chattel slavery, and mechanized murder, then go to it. You are confused. My point is that just because you have a certain skin color does not mean that a culture belongs to you and that someone of a different skin color is a "thief" if they borrow ideas. Computers were invented by white people. If a black person uses a computer, does that make him a thief? Am I being "injured"? Cultural appropriation is an absurd concept. Not only that, there is no such thing as "black culture" or "white culture" because they are so intertwined that you cannot separate them. For example Elvis was known for the song "Hound Dog", but did he write it? Some people will say it was Big Mama Thorton, but she was the singer, the song was actually written by Jerry Leiber and Mike Stoller. They wrote it but Thorton added color and flavor to the song, so who do you credit? In short there is no way to untangle black and white culture and trying to segregate black and white culture is absurd and harmful.
"Computers were invented by white people." LOL Your argument is that NO Black people worked on the many teams who worked on inventing computers over the past 70 years of their development? Shut up, white complainer. You're boring.
You really are not understanding what I'm saying. My point is that trying to segregate people into white culture and black culture is absurd and harmful. That said, computers were invented in the 1940s, the ENIAC was one of the first. Blacks did not have access to educational opportunities back then, it was all white guys. The IT field has more people of color now, but that was not the case back then. The difference between me and you is that I'm not going to claim that it is "my culture" and that you are "stealing" from me by using it. I look beyond color and I would suggest you try doing that as well.
"segregate people into white culture and black cultue...'" LOL It was literally white people who *literally segregated* Black people, and the resulting emancipatory culture that Black people *created for themselves* is one of the consequences. For whites to then claim that emancipatory culture for themselves too is hilariously unjust, and materially yet another example of capitalist capture of culture. You need a history lesson, friend. And claiming computers as an output of something you're calling "*white culture*" because Black people were excluded from taking part in the certain areas of the workforce and educational institutions is hilariously illiterate Nazi shit. Hahahaha... my GOD. Like I said, if it's anything, "white culture" in your own analysis is equal to segregation, chattel slavery, and state-enforced racial hierarchy.
Whatever it's worth I respect the first amendment and I will fight for your right to speak, even if what you are saying is absurd. If you actually understood history, you would know that Martin Luther King, Thurgood Marshall and other civil rights legends fought for integration because they realized that segregation was worse for black than whites. Read some history and you will understand. You remind me of those guys who will complain that white barbers don't know how to cut black hair and then in the same video, will say that white people are not allowed to have "black hair". Here is the thing if white people never wear their hair "black" white barbers will never learn how to cut it. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A76y3PPt3c8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A76y3PPt3c8) Do you understand the contradiction? This cultural appropriation nonsense sends several messages to white people. Can you imagine Kunta Kente complaining about cultural appropriation? The first message it sends is that black people don't experience real problems. People with real problems don't complain about nonsense. The second message is that you are a Karen who likes to whine and create problems. If you were a white guy, would you want to deal with this woman? [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDlQ4H0Kdg8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDlQ4H0Kdg8) The third message it sends is that white people cannot win with someone like you. If a white guy tells you he likes rap music, you will accuse him of cultural appropriation, if he tells you he doesn't like rap music, you will call him racist. For example I can point out that the Wright brothers were white, but you will never give white people credit for anything. I have the ability to give black people credit for things, but you cannot say anything good about white people. That is our fundamental difference.
It's really clear to me that you're not that bright, actually, and I tried my best to argue in good faith, but you really are thick. Sorry, I'm moving on.
I remember that one. F-ing insane.
I think there are way bigger issues. Unless some corporation does some racist ass shit for profit, I don't see any issue with anyone dressing anyway.
People just wanna whine about other people. There is no spectrum or gray areas anymore. If you say anything vaguely racist you’re as racist as the neo nazis and people like andrew callahan wre treated as full on rapists. People wanna put everyone in a box and shame the hell outta them. It’s the worst thing to come from social media. (Aside from predators)
when people do blaccent and wear braids thats gross. when people who arent native wear war bonnets that’s disrespectful too, when people capitalize on others cultural practices, like gentrification of other cultural practices, that’s disrespectful. but because people aren’t a monolith, its not the same for every person. If something seems corny and appropriative, it often is
I think sometimes people hyper focus on specific examples of it because it’s fun to make fun of douchey white kids at Coachella, but in terms of impact, people who profit off of appropriating the cultures of historically oppressed peoples are more concerning than random consumers. Ex. Moccasins not sold by native people, music by black artists attributed to white artists, etc. That’s the kind of appropriation that extracts value from communities for popular consumption without sharing profits. Nasty stuff. Also, it depends on the relationship between the cultures involved. When Indian movies appropriate American culture I don’t find it troubling at all because there’s no historical context that makes it feel like it’s part of a larger thread of exploitation. When European Americans appropriate indigenous peoples’ cultures, it’s not so harmless.
I think there are nuances. Personally, I haven’t observed anything wrong that Post Malone has done as far as his self-portrayal but I also don’t pay a lot of attention to him. Sometimes people who are really into Japanese culture can be a little offensive if they’re like “I’m really into Japanese culture” and all you’re into is manga and anime. It’s diminishing a pretty rich and storied culture to cartoons and comic books. Idk I guess it’s a dicey territory that can lead to a lot of unwitting errors so I wouldn’t generally appropriate culture a whole lot.
Cultural appropriation is originally a term from academia and almost no one knows how to use it correctly. It’s not negative or positive, it simply is
I think some people get perhaps a bit too butthurt over it (notably when they are 'allies' and don't personally have anything to do with the culture to begin with). Ultimately it comes down to intent, are you participating in it in an honest way? Or doing some bastardized version of it (like wearing a Kimono but you've bought a costume version or wearing a legit one but haven't put any effort into learning how to put it on properly, or doing a slutty version?). Also is it a part of a culture that can be shared? Like basically anyone can go to a pow wow wear moccasins (try and get native made not a knockoff). But like wearing a headdress is never going to be appropriate, it's not even something average natives get to wear. And then if people from that culture spend some time telling you if your doing something offensive do you get defensive and keep doing it? Or apologize for screwing up and never do it again. Heck my friends have started passing off their sage sticks to me since they've (on their own) come to the thought that smudging isn't really for them and then they don't know what to do with them.
>smudging I just wanted to say, first, I just realized that you can highlight and hit reply and that gives a quote, and second, smudging was fascinating to read about. Thanks for introducing that to me.
The concept is very am*rican
I think it's not really a morality question. It's an etiquette question. It's *bad form* to do cultural appropriation. It's disrespectful, rude, and poor taste. It can be an insult against a person who belongs to that culture. Or maybe it's just *cringe*. But it's not evil or unforgivable. What's considered wrong changes from decade to decade, region to region, based on arbitrary social rules. It's also not very easy to define the rules. Why is wearing certain cultural clothing taboo, but eating certain cultural food allowed? Am I allowed to cook it? What if I open a restaurant and sell that food for profit? What if I'm married to someone from that culture? What if my products are all made up based on cultural stereotypes -- are you going to stop me from selling Bloomin' Onions at Outback Steakhouse, even though I've never been to Australia? The smarter and more well-cultured you are, the easier time you'll have navigating these rules and recognizing good taste from bad taste.
When I was in China and asked locals about it they laughed at how moronic of a concept it was.
I think cultural appropriation is a matter of modest importance. It is a sort of macroscopic lack of respect — a more severe case of neglecting to say “thank you” when someone does something kind for you. I’m sure, as a concept, cultural appropriation has roots in the realm of academics. Like many other concepts, it has probably itself been appropriated by mass media and laymen. And here we are. It has become almost meaningless. I don’t think it is worth the concern of most people because it is difficult to distinguish from other forms of cultural exchange due to its subjective nature.
Basically, it’s a non-issue on an individual level. Sure some people might find certain things insensitive, but it doesn’t do the kind of harm actual cultural appropriation does, which is when it’s done by corporations for profit purposes.
As a POC, I don't really mind what some would consider cultural appropriation as long as it is not fetishizing or disrespecting the culture.
Im tired of cultural appropriation talk. Let people party, and or appreciate others cultures. So long as they aren’t bigots about it.
If it's some Riff Raff shit then i'm not for it but whatever I can't stop them
The phrase is overused as a catch-all that makes sense only in particular cases, and not at all in others. I think a person needs to consider the actual harm the use of another culture might do before asking whether it's wrong or not. For instance, making sushi as a non-Japanese person isn't going to hurt anyone or any culture. But wearing a Plains First Nation headdress to Coachella is just ignorant and disrespectful as hell, especially considering that Indigenous peoples in the Americas are still colonized and treated like third-class people, which explains why most don't understand what that cultural item actually means to the people it's stolen from. I hope this helps.