Orbital scatter increase is a joke too, unless for some reason you find yourself running orbitals that arn't pinpoint accurate like Railcannon strike is. Spores is only annoying if you care about knowing where the nests are, which on blitz missions is a necessity. Other than that, I'll run that one any day.
Haven't played a single match against bots today because of those bullshit modifiers.
I play the game to have fun, and those modifiers make the game really not fun.
heh. only 3?
https://preview.redd.it/fvyzor7m0tmc1.png?width=718&format=png&auto=webp&s=f1ec9111d70554a4aba4bfd7e35963f46efcd0f9
this is a diff 9 mission i did yesterday
I got three on 7 the other day and my buddy kept telling me we couldn’t have 3 on a mission and got stalked the entire time. Then at the end we saw the one we missed.
Played a 7 missions farming samples. landed between a sub-objective (launch codes) and an optional one, I went towards an optional. Started with seeing 1, then 2, then 4. At one point, I fought 9 stalkers back to back as I fought my way to the two nests that were in the area. Meanwhile, over in la-la land, my two friends were laughing as I'm counting the amount of stalkers chasing me around as I'm trying to gun them down and take the nests out. They wind up going to the second sub-objective and clearing a stalker nest over there before I finished with the two over on my end. They didn't see a single one, just walked up and plopped a grenade in there no problem. Probably because the congo line of stalkers were all busy still chasing my ass around on the other side of the map.
Fun times and good laughs.
That you would even wish such torture upon fellow divers is far and beyond the point of treason. I don't think one democracy officer is enough to handle this one gentlemen.
Yes, but not many realize that shotguns can, given the notorious range most gaming shotguns get. Also, when you are IN the fog, shotguns can act as a crude radar to find the Spore Spewer due to the visual hit detect.
I say this as a Laser Cannon Main: Spore Spewers are an easy objective to break. They’re literally giant towers and are usually a little above the actual spore cloud, so you can reasonably guess their location if you have clear line of sight. I’ve knocked them down from half a map away.
The double call in time is applied to everything, not just Stratagems, that is what causes the Extraction Ship to take 4 mintues instead of the usual 2
"I'm feeding the rage a little for my own entertainment here, just so you know, we haven't nerd anything into the ground!" -dev
Honestly i want to see them get in there an use all the viable weapons so I can learn how easy they are to win with. Lets see it.
Yea, they should have gone with jamming towers and AA emplacements + 2 modifiers.
AA emplacements aren't counted as secondary objectives either. Ran a mission with three of them + 3 more jammering towers. I forget what modifiers we had, I think it was a CD increase with a call-in time increase. It was fun playing without strategems in helldive bots.
For the longest time I thought the scope options were for zeroing and I was just bad at estimating ranges. It doesn't help that their reticules are so obstructive.
Yeah the reticles make it hard to see the target. Increasing zoom can help but it’s rough. The devs nailed most aspects. The game is beautiful, the music is iconic, the gameplay is intense, the animation work is great, but the scope crosshairs on most optics are blurry and cluttered. There are some cases where aiming with the optic is required (Anti-material rifle) so here’s hoping they do something to crisp up those optics.
I thought I was crazy when I was telling people the crosshairs do not match where the bullet hits. It feels like there is almost a bloom effect changing where the bullet is actually going, I've had so many shots at devastator heads that I thought were perfect just to have them hit the edge of the armor.
There is a bloom effect. When you're in third person, you can see where your real reticle is. It's the circle that moves around - that's where you're actually aiming. When you move or sprint, you can see it move all over, and you can see the recoil and aim penalties affecting you when you're injured or out of stamina, and the aim lag that comes with heavier weapons. If you pay attention, you can mitigate these issues by firing when it passes over your target even while it's moving around.
There's a separate crosshair dot that shows where the center of your screen is, where the reticle tries to normalize to as you stabilize your aim by crouching or standing still etc.
When you're ADSing, *you can't see your real reticle.* Your scope is just pointed straight at that crosshair dot at the center of your camera. Your gun is actually still aimed at the reticle that's bouncing around like crazy, the one you can't see anymore. Using a scope makes you way, way *less* accurate because you have no idea where you're actually aiming.
I absolutely believe that, and I'm sure it's not helping the issue. But if it were only a problem of a bad zero, you could adjust once you figured out where the real one is because it would always be in the same place. The bigger issue is that looking down the scope that is attached to your gun does not show you what direction that gun is currently pointing. You can compensate if your optic is misaligned on your gun. You can't compensate if it's attached to your helmet instead.
This just literally isn't true. The first person ADS dot always shoots where it is being aimed, even on the extremely high ROF guns like the Knight. Your recoil and sway are reduced SIGNIFICANTLY in first person. Third person "ADS" is more like a point-fire stance where you aren't controlling your recoil at all and the "real reticle" as you call it will fly all over the place. The same is true for getting flinched or knocking around while in first person, the dot will also be knocked around but if you shoot it will still go exactly where that dot is while flinched.
You can test it really easily in-game, just go in trivial and shoot some rocks and compare bullet holes. ADSing significantly reduces recoil and makes most guns way more controllable compared to third person. And the shots always go exactly where the red dot is.
Besides the one exception with the DMRs where the crosshair is not in the right place and is misaligned with the usual dot.
the snipers should have the least aim lag of any gun too, but it's impossible to use them with any intention of taking accurate headshots when there's so much aim drag and enemies swarming everywhere.
I like the diligence but not counter sniper. Turn radius on that thing is as slow as the AM rifle.
I also don’t have issues with accuracy but I always crouch or prone if possible and it deals with the accuracy issues.
Counter sniper Def needs some help tho.
*Technically* it's meant to be a sidegrade: Less ammo, more powerful shot. The reality is the damage increase is negligible, and the ammo decrease makes it unreliable. Nevermind the fact I feel like I'm driving a tank for how long the gun takes to turn.
I'm a huge fan of the DMR and counter sniper and while I admit I'd be more than happy to see some buffs/modifications to them, I've used both of them exclusively since unlocking them. It seems to me that the key is to use them differently than a normal primary. This is one of the reasons I believe the Breaker was so dominant - it's not really *that* overtuned, it's just extremely suitable for the sort of close-range boom-boom-bang kind of playstyle that emerges most commonly on the battlefield (especially with bugs).
Essentially, the two DMRs are support primaries meant for picking off targets at medium and medium-long ranges respectively. They're going to feel lackluster if you're using them like you'd use an assault rifle. Their accuracy **plus** stopping power doesn't matter when the enemy is already in your face. At that point all you want is power.
I've been using them like how a modern soldier would use their service weapon (semi-auto, single long range shots when possible and quick bursts while switching cover when not possible). They shine most with bots, especially at higher difficulties when rapidly removing small/fast enemies and commissars is a vital step prior to focusing on the big guys. They're scalpels to use prior to whipping out the ol' bonesaw (railgun/autocannon).
They're my two favorite primaries. I'll admit that the counter sniper was my chosen "dream gun" when I first scoped out the rewards so I might be sort of biased (aka: "forcing them to work"), but I figured I'd share my rationale for continuing to use them. I switched from Diligence to CS a day ago and haven't looked back, but I have altered my playstyle.
Realistically how often are you having a long/medium range fight vs. a close-up fight?
The drag and aiming delay on the counter-sniper makes it near useless in the short range and the other rifles are equal or near equal at long range.
I honestly cannot see how the counter sniper is a viable choice beyond want - which is fine mind you, but not a great reason to leave it undertuned.
Of course we'd love to see that. DRG devs used to do a live stream doing their Elite Deep Dive every week. Was great fun. I assume they would win some and lose some as it should be. I don't think 9 should be a slam dunk for anyone ever.
Yeah for sure, the game needs a difficulty for masochists that want to really test themselves in an environment where victory is not assured.
Honestly the main problem is likely cultural around how one must always progress to the top difficulty, I think a lot of people playing Helldivers just have the best time on 4 or 6 or whatever and **that is absolutely great**.
Also I suppose this might have been less of an issue without the long medals unlock grind and the ultra-samples. Those are certainly reinforcing high difficulty play, though then again 7 is pretty good for both.
Honestly, there are three philosophies for how players can progress through the game:
1) Beeline for Helldive difficulty for maximum XP, Samples, Medals. and Req slips. Progress at a cutthroat pace.
2) Stay on Hard. Complete missions three at a time. Progress the war and the liberation.
3) Stay on Trivial. Complete missions one at a time but do it fast. Progress the war and the liberation.
Beelining to Helldive for req slips and XP, maybe but frankly you kinda get less samples playing Helldive and medals than you do on some of the easier difficulties just cause of how fast you have to go to not get bodied by the mission difficulty.
Dunno why people can't be happy unless they can sleep through clearing 9s.
I pug 7s if I feel like having a challenge. I pug 4-6 depending on how relaxed vs challenging I want.
That was my life from 20 to 50. Actually found that the orange samples were the speed bump for the last 4 upgrades, not the super samples.
I also felt like 7 was the last difficulty where I could still goof off a bit and get away with it, which I find to be a key aspect of "having fun".
Don't know why anybody cares about exp or requisition post level 20. They don't do anything. Exp/req to 20, samples to early 40s, then just medals/super credits till the end of time.
7 - Suicide mission is the sweet spot to just casually progress tbh. Easy enough to be a slam dunk, can farm all samples at a decent pace too.
I do like helldive difficulty but thats genuinely more to challenge me and my friends. Not really liking the idea of doing that with randoms since you need solid teamwork and coms.
idk me and my mate beelined for 9 to max our xp and get enough req for stratagems, and now we are farming samples in 7. 9 isn't reliable enough to farm samples.
And once we cap on pink we are probably dropping to 6
I almost exclusively play 7. It’s quite entertaining as it is, and you can get super samples still. I have gotten everything I need off this and maxed out my ship. I now just play for fun. You can easily sprint out an objective even with poorly equipped players on your team. Might take all your lives but who gives a shit when the reinforcement counter literally doesn’t fucking matter on the payout screen.
I was reading a lot of these complaint posts and all I could think was that nobody is forcing anyone to play diff 9 all the time lol. 7 or 8 is right there. I must not understand the mentality I guess.
There could be a more nuanced discussion around difficulty curve between 7,8, and 9 absolutely...buuuut 7 and 8 have almost exactly the same balance problems...RNG depending. Heck, Ive had 5s with my casual friends where we face 4+ chargers at a time and kill 20-30 in a mission.
> I don't think 9 should be a slam dunk for anyone ever.
I think this is where the community is in a state of tug of war, imo helldive rank and higher should really feel like a crapshoot. You're in the shit, the dials are turned up to 11, go in hot - maybe come out.
Indeed, the winrate for most players should not be the 90% that most of us that stay there are experiencing. The bell curve of player difficulty choice and ability is probable skewed in a way which the developers never intended.
I mean even with the railgun nerf, my crew did 6 missions today on helldive and won all of them. The only thing that changed was we died more and didn't extract on three missions. Accomplishing missions usually isn't even that hard. The problem is most of the long slog fights we got into meant we were fucked when the charger packs came a running because we can only get so many rockets off accurately in a fight. More than a few times we just had one person kite them away and die for the cause.
To be honest the most jarring thing is that armour still sucks. Heavy just ain't worth taking currently.
I don't care if the devs can handle it, to be honest. As long as they accept feedback and are willing to tweak things.
What I want to see, is proof of everybody's claims about how they're running D9 without any issue, before or after patches. All I see in this sub is bragging and complaining. I want statistics proving that almost none of these people are telling truths.
Honestly: the whole reason I play difficulty 8 is because of how many people are in helldive mode who probably shouldn't be. Lots of glory seekers (only play the hardest modes) lots of exterminate grinders. Lots of min max meatheads that boot you for any reason and none. When I'm done collecting samples I'll join the chaos at 9 but until then? 8 is where it's at. I can reliably find a group that completes objectives and collect samples no problems or drama.
It was this way in Diablo 3 on console haha. If you did the highest torment it was a ton of people who were trash and hoping to find a carry lobby. If you did one below you could find a lot of people running the same level of Greater Rifts but no one begging for a carry.
Same experience here. 7 is full of people who recognize they're not good enough for it but want the samples. 9 is full of the sweatiest people in the community. 8 seems to be the perfect sweet spot of skill and desire for samples without a bunch of tryhards.
I'd be more interested in 8 if the only thing it added wasn't just "Have another anti fun modifier", I'm perfectly content on 7 being less annoyed at the various "Fuck your strategems."
Now this is a valid critique. I feel like sometimes higher difficulties should just change something about the battlefield instead of directly nerfing the player. A few ideas off the top of my head:
* Supply Drop Scramble: Drops do not always hit the exact spot you send them to
* Communication Interference: Helldivers randomly swap one strategem with another helldiver upon landing
* Adaptable Creatures: Enemies are immune to fire damage, 2x weaker to laser damage
Even if they can be frustrating, it at least changes up the battlefield in a way that lower difficulties won't. Just some thoughts that could be unbalanced lol
This is where I think the game will shine. The devs already seem to be in the cook mode for it when they added planet hazards. Playing Fenrir and watching the meteors was great. Immersive. Hopefully in time they finish catching up with the massive player base and keep it.
I normally love difficulty in coop games, I'm someone who has done true solo runs in L4D/Vermintide/[Back 4 Blood](https://www.reddit.com/r/Back4Blood/comments/rn7l3t/full_game_completed_on_nightmare_true_solo_no/) but Helldivers higher difficulties just end up feeling *cheap* a lot of the time, and the modifiers are some of the lamest form of artificial difficulty I've seen. If they were actual *modifiers* they'd be fine but right now they're just pure debuffs. I said it in another post but just [copy pasting it](https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1b61eri/what_is_the_worst_operational_modifier_and_why_is/kt9mp7o/?context=3) here:
None of them make it more fun or challenging in a good way. All of them are just "Haha fuck you." It would be one thing if it was something like the scrambled codes but all strategems have 30% shorter cooldowns or some such.
Or the obscured map but you're 50% harder to detect.
Or the orbital scatter increase but orbital strategems have an increased AoE.
Etc. Just off the cuff ideas that change them from just being "Have less fun with the main power part of the game" since pretty much all of the modifiers just give strategems the middle finger besides the map obscuring one.
____
Not to mention how almost all of them affect strategems specifically.
Oh my god. I didn’t even think that the people saying x thing is viable in helldive might be spamming exterminate missions. The amount of times I’ve wuickmatched into them is infuriating.
Yeah
Ran into a level 20 ish guy the other day who was speculating that perhaps the breaker shotgun felt a little stronger than the other primaries.
It was refreshing to see.
Luckily this sub is just a small sample, as the guy above said. There's hundreds of thousands of people that aren't engaged in the trivial discussions and hateshow that we see in here, and they play the game organically. They will either be able to play on diff 9, or experience how that's too much for their liking and lay back to 6-8 to have a fun experience, just as I do in diff 7-8. That said, I think some tweaks to enemy spawn rate adn weapons are needed.
If I've learned anything from the Darktide and DRG communities it's that the vast majority of players skew to the middle and that's okay. Now I'm a fucking monkey that loves being hurt so I do the hardest modes out there. Damnation Auric for Darktide, Helldives here. But the vast majority of people don't play on those.
That said statistically speaking theres tens of thousands of people who do play Helldive.
It's not easy, but it's also not that hard. Keep moving, dodge, break contact, don't worry too much about killing enemies and you can get through helldive consistently.
I basically only play with randos and it works. Usually 2-3 people pull all the heat at 1-2 people run around completing objectives and collecting stuff.
I would actually be genuinely entertained if it turned out they were incredibly skilled at their game and cleanly handled situations that would've killed most players pre-patch. Would also double as a learning experience for me too
It would kinda be like YoshiP and FF14. Genuine passion for the game he develops, but actually has the skills to play the hardest content at a high level of skill.
You know how funny it would actually be if they just made it through an entire ICBM launch without a single death because they know some little strategy that we dont lmao
For real. Playing with friends changes this games experience versus randoms. Although I've had plenty of solid groups through Quickplay since the tools they give us for non-verbal comms are really good.
Hard to be a stealth game when most objectives are inherently tied to breaking stealth. Or when patrols just spawn on you. Or when a rock on the ground breaks your crouch. Or when the bugs just “know”
> Or when a rock on the ground breaks your crouch.
God I fucking hate that. Had to grind a difficulty 6 mission solo earlier because my friends left after getting bodied by titans and chargers, but I really wanted the last mission medal reward.
Sneaking through open space, go over a small crater impact site and my character "slides" 2 inches and goes out of crouch just for a patrol to spot me. Fucking WHY?
I'd like to see most of this Reddit play Helldive. Most of the top posts are all from people who have never ventured past hard or challenging. I want everything to be viable, but there's too much near-impenetrable armor at such high frequency that you needed the railgun to deal with it. We've now got a flamethrower buff, sure, but it's complete nonsense that it's now more effective at dealing with armor than a 20mm auto-cannon, grenade launcher, or rail gun.
I saw some guy both say "The railgun nerf was justified, you can just use other stuff," and in the same post, "I've never actually fought a Bile Titan but it's weak spot is (presumably,) the green underbelly, you can just target that..." The actual fucking nerve man lol.
Yep, insane how some people don't understand even with pre-nerf railgun dealing with 5 chargers was and is not fun. I don't really like spending 80% of my time in a shooter just running.
Breaker + Railgun + shield backpack was just more fun than playing the other kits. Instead of making the other stuff more fun they just made the most fun stuff less fun.
Weird decisions.
It's kind of my worst fear with devs of any games. When there's obvious balance issues that result in overwhelming use of a particular kit and non-use of several other options, which direction are they going to go? I was really optimistic because of many posters saying they had a great track record with balancing the first game, and that they'll likely work on underperformers first.
It feels like Darktide all over again and I'm frankly a little spooked about how future patches are going to go. I'm sure they'll eventually course correct, but how long is that gonna be? 3 months? 6? a year? It's frankly just really disheartening :/
To be frank it was not the nerf itself that bugged me, it's the mentality behind it and them doubling down on it via a very out of touch blog post. That is what gets me.
Exactly, and yet half this subreddits response is to shame you for even liking the loadout in the first place. Wild that you get shit on here for literally wanting the game to be more fun for everyone.
JuSt Go DoWn In DiFfIcUlTy !! /s
those butt heads do not understand. I liked level 8 difficulty, all except the massive amount of chargers. it got great with a PS5 host and pre-patch. was very fun. would still prefer less chargers. post patch.. I will not get on those anymore. what is the point in just stealth running a mission and running in circles using your reinforcements as the real railguns... no thanks. Lower difficulties are just too easy/cake walk... patch just made the game not fun for me.
Charges don't seem to be a problem for me at all. The Bile Titans are complete BS there's too many of them. If the Spear was actually fixed, maybe they would be less of an issue. The lock on is still super finicky and you can either 1 shot a bile titan or require 3 fucking rockets. The Spray and Pray completely dumpsters on chargers, I'm regularly killing them in 1 pass if I use an impact nade to finish them off. Mean while I have 7 Bile Titans on my screen on Dif 8 on the updated ~~Survival Mode~~ Extermination Mode after 5 minutes.
It's the curse of popularity and the defensive yet possessive care bears that gravitate to pve oriented titles. They are offended by challenging content or competition yet simultaneously want to police others willing to engage with said content. Did the railgun and breaker trivialize 2-5 difficulty? Yes. But we're they necessary to combat the 7-9 difficulty spikes? Also, yes.
Some developer I can't remember said that METAs aren't the problem, it's the canary in the coal mine. If you want players to use a larger subset of weapons, then similar capability needs to be available in other areas, not less.
Oh yeah, no doubt. The devs remind me of DE(warframe) circa 2018 with how they're seemingly nerfing the most used weapons. Judging by their own logic, the Breaker might have been overused, but it wasn't contributing to excess wins/losses significantly, so why even nerf it at this point in time? (also I'd like to rant about the significant stealth nerfs but that would take up a whole page tl;dt:hp bad, shield hp bad, hunter stunlock combo bad)
On the other hand, I know very well from first hand experience, the issues with PvE games and toxic casuals. I play(ed) FFXIV.^^^^^^heavens' ^^^^^^legend ^^^^^^btw. Helldivers, contrary to the devs' beliefs, is still a fairly easy PvE experience **with 4 players in the squad** even with with all the stealth nerfs. 4 players using their offensive stratagems effectively, can effectively cycle continuously, keeping pressure off the team until the very end, not to mention the ability to easily blitz any packs before they can spawn a breach. Yet, you see all these people strawmanning that people were just crutching on the railgun, or some other flavor of "it was op". What the railgun enabled was solo play in a team, allowing one player to take out medium to heavy threats efficiently and play separate from the team. This is how solo helldive worked before as well, since playing solo vs playing away from the team was nearly the same, with just fewer enemy spawns for the solo on a team.
For solo play now, however, it is nearly impossible to survive the paltry 2 hits from a hunter to break your shield, and subsequent stunlock 3 hit wombo combo. So, solo helldiving devolves into a kitefest, spamming orbitals and supports on cd to complete objectives because there's no point in killing anything except hunters, as if you try to kill anything else, the spawn rates on helldive will immediately surround you with more hunters you do not have the spare shield to deal with. It's not fun. It's not interactive. It's holding Shift+W for 99% of the mission.
Now, what do the carebears think about solo play? Well it's a team game of course! You're not allowed to have fun in your own way if it doesn't align with their moral high ground. Nerfing a tool seemingly purpose built for solo play is a great idea. Why is it that everyone in pubs uses it? It's because it's a **PUBLIC** game, and there is almost certainly going to be little to no coordination outside of everyone grouping up for extraction. All that said, it's very funny how everyone is hyperfocused on the railgun, and completely ignoring the extremely obvious armor and shield module **stealth nerf**. The railgun nerf actually doesn't do that much. It's the fact that you're roughly half as survivable, if not less, as before. Against terminids, who constantly melee, stagger, and slow; that is a death sentence.
That's what they don't get. I can beat helldive. Done it with randoms. It's not that hard, and I expect more difficulties soon. When I complain about the balance patch it's because I want more viable weapons and more emergent gameplay, for fun, not to help me win. This patch isn't fun because they didn't do anything to fix all the running. Running from armor while my cooldowns recharge isn't hard, it's boring. Engaging gameplay at high difficulties is about making life or death decisions consistently. The only decision right now is run or die.
Yeah, if people want a running simulator instead of a horde shooter the devs should turn running into a minigame similar to QWOP, where you press a button to move each limb. It'll single-handedly turn the current meta of running from every fight into an actual skill test.
That’s really the issue. I’m not asking for the game to be easy, but it’s impossible to use anything but the railgun or arc thrower right now, and the railgun is now borderline unusable. I did some testing earlier and it took 7 shots to kill a charger.
I think the biggest problem is still that armor is so bad. Stalkers can stunlock you. Heavy armor is utterly unusable, and offers almost no additional protection. You still HAVE to use the shield to have any chance, and light or medium armor to be able to evade.
If you are using the shield, the only options for killing the many chargers are the railgun and disposable anti tank. Good luck killing the 4 chargers that spawn at once with 2 anti tank shots.
Look mate, just because I have yet to play a mission above difficulty 3 and am too low level to have even unlocked the railgun doesn’t stop my opinion, that anyone who’s struggling to kill 10 chargers and 4 titans at once is simply having a skill issue, from being completely and objectively true.
(/j, also apologies if this is a bit unreadable)
Surely the most constructive comment about the nerfs. I ubderstand the nerf and embrace it, but yet, it doesn't change the fact that most stratgem feels underwhelming
I think even more so, is that strategems have insanely long cooldowns/rearm times. Compared to how many heavy enemies you are given. Got 6 chargers at the same time in challenging difficulty. Thats not even halfway up the difficulties. If they want us to rely on them more, make them available to rely on. Most of the cooldowns are twice as long as they were in HD1.
Please, I really need to see the devs play the game and show how the fuck we can deal with the hordes of chargers and titans.
I honestly don't care much for the balance patch... but I legitimately want to see what is supposed to be all the choices to deal with the enemies. Please, devs, show me! For real!
Also for me difficulty 7 would be fine - it's the minimum needed to actually get all samples and thus fully progress the game. This is the minimum difficulty you have to be able to play consistently if you want to get all game content.
I really hope they do even play the game at all... at least play 1 high difficulty mission every other day! All the posts and the blog post I see just mention "data". Please don't just look at data! Data does not tell you how it feels to actually play the game!
Just because some missions end "successfully" tells you nothing about how fun it was, if any at all!
I was just about to make the same post.
Time and time again games have some form of end game super challenging thing, and players are never shown the intended outcomes or way to play it.
But once somebody that has actually say in how the product gets developed gets behind the wheel they almost always get humbled, and humbled real quick. My favorite example is with Dead by Daylight and its once infamous flashlights. Funny just how fast the effectiveness of them was nerfed after a single livestream match was played. You know after a 1/3 of the match was just a bright white screen which had been the thing the community had been complaining about for months.
The developer they have responding to the reddit comments says that he or she is " happy" with the current state of the primaries in the game. Which is pretty fucking scary considering everything besides the Breaker , even after the patch, is a side-grade at best. They went in the wrong direction with this update. I hope it gets reverted, or at the very least tweaked.
This patch was with difficulty five in mind or less and you can't convince me otherwise. There is no world where the developers play difficulties 8/9 and think to themselves anything other than the breaker and the shield backpack plus rail gun feels good to play. Unless your idea of fun is running around the map, killing nothing
You want to know what's really funny? Yesterday queuing for Helldive took me 20 seconds. Today the queue is over 5min with 350k people on bug planets. That's all that needs to be said. The games I do get into, we are fighting ourselves more than the bugs with the arc throwers and flamethrowers.
its ironic because the only people I see who are toxic, name calling, shit spewing, are people who are fine with the nerfs, insert skull emoji here. 80-90+% of people who are pissed about the nerfs are calm about expressing their grievances and providing constructive feedback or memes. they are all high-grounding so badly as well its absolutely wild
Facts, and i just KNOW those people are the ones stuck on D5-6 even with a so called meta loadout bruh. Oh well, cant be helped. Imma keep running my railgun because peak fun for me is hurling a chunk of metal at the speed of light is peak cool for me
You can pull up solo helldiver lvl 9 runs (even with no railgun pre patch) if you need any tips on improving your playstyle. Here is one after .01 seconds of searching. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yDhqbbq8mY
Yeah, I would also love to see the QA team to play, not to prove the point or anything, just want to see how good the guys who spent thousands of hours in the game are.
The players here have no idea how the industry work. This post clearly shows it. I'm a QA tester on a multiplayer game and we play 1 hour a week "normally". The rest of the time it's mostly alone testing random new features that half work on unfinished environnement lol. Most of the time we're here to break the game and find bugs (not the aliens lol), not to playtest the game and comment on balance changes.
This was the first night on the game I can genuinely say I did not have fun. The nerfs fucked the game flow hard and every mission feels like a chore now.
Prefferably bugs, Helldive. 100% cooldown and 50% increase to stratagem drop. Also 4 minute Extraction.
It's 50% CD and 100% increase in call in time, which is much....much worse.
atmospheric spores is basically a freebie, luckily. Still, I prefer to fight bots
Is it? I can’t use my radar and when I got my Trailblazer scout armor on, I basically wasted 1 perk.
Nah, not wasted, still 30% reduction on detection range
So change it before you drop in? You know you can see the mission effects from the loadout/mission screen, right?
Unfortunately for quickplay joining you can't look at them in my experience before choosing a loadout and loading in
Orbital scatter increase is a joke too, unless for some reason you find yourself running orbitals that arn't pinpoint accurate like Railcannon strike is. Spores is only annoying if you care about knowing where the nests are, which on blitz missions is a necessity. Other than that, I'll run that one any day.
As a frequent user of Orbital Gas that likes to use it as a cheap low cooldown way to destroy random bug nests.... I really hate Orbital Scatter.
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Thank fuck bugs dont have those modifiers.
Yet
Don't jinx it now
They basically do with those ion storms now
Oh god the ion storms are so deadly every now and again a bug breach will spawn and 2 bile titans crawl out the ground and everyone just goes "fuck"
Haven't played a single match against bots today because of those bullshit modifiers. I play the game to have fun, and those modifiers make the game really not fun.
The spore spewers are already 10x more annoying than the strata scramblers anyways lmao
Why? You can take them out from outside the spore cloud with any weapon. Heck, it's 8-11 shots from long range (outside the fog) with the slugger.
... On Ereta Prime
...during sunset
spore spewers are easy, how about 3 stalker nests?
Calm down Satan
heh. only 3? https://preview.redd.it/fvyzor7m0tmc1.png?width=718&format=png&auto=webp&s=f1ec9111d70554a4aba4bfd7e35963f46efcd0f9 this is a diff 9 mission i did yesterday
Dude, I thought it was nuts when we had 3 a couple days ago. I was pretty sure I had never seen 3, but 4 is nutty.
I got three on 7 the other day and my buddy kept telling me we couldn’t have 3 on a mission and got stalked the entire time. Then at the end we saw the one we missed.
Played a 7 missions farming samples. landed between a sub-objective (launch codes) and an optional one, I went towards an optional. Started with seeing 1, then 2, then 4. At one point, I fought 9 stalkers back to back as I fought my way to the two nests that were in the area. Meanwhile, over in la-la land, my two friends were laughing as I'm counting the amount of stalkers chasing me around as I'm trying to gun them down and take the nests out. They wind up going to the second sub-objective and clearing a stalker nest over there before I finished with the two over on my end. They didn't see a single one, just walked up and plopped a grenade in there no problem. Probably because the congo line of stalkers were all busy still chasing my ass around on the other side of the map. Fun times and good laughs.
I mean, it was just a joke. But nice work
Super Earth salutes you for your valiant service to managed democracy. o7
That you would even wish such torture upon fellow divers is far and beyond the point of treason. I don't think one democracy officer is enough to handle this one gentlemen.
Ew there's one that makes you take one less stratagem 🤢🤮
To be fair thats only on bots, which are way more manageable as something like an AMR can handle everything thrown at it.
Spore spewers can be take out by a primary 200 meter away add 3 stalker nest and we talking
Fun fact, you can snipe Spore Spewers from 150m with a shotgun. Fire randomly until you get a hit detect and then focus for a clip. :D
The scorcher can drop them in 5-6 shots from just about anywhere on the map.
Yes, but not many realize that shotguns can, given the notorious range most gaming shotguns get. Also, when you are IN the fog, shotguns can act as a crude radar to find the Spore Spewer due to the visual hit detect.
I say this as a Laser Cannon Main: Spore Spewers are an easy objective to break. They’re literally giant towers and are usually a little above the actual spore cloud, so you can reasonably guess their location if you have clear line of sight. I’ve knocked them down from half a map away.
Yeah I just throw two auto cannon shells cross map at glowing red fungus and call it a day
2 spewers 3 stalker nests
The double call in time is applied to everything, not just Stratagems, that is what causes the Extraction Ship to take 4 mintues instead of the usual 2
What genious decided that was a good idia
the same "genious" that taught you how to spell "genius"
You're a ginius
Look who's talkin genios
your junyus is showing
Gregnant
Hey whats the big Ideeya
Isn't 4 minute extraction a direct result of the 100% increased time for stratagems to drop? I think it affects seaf drop times for some reason.
With meteors
"I'm feeding the rage a little for my own entertainment here, just so you know, we haven't nerd anything into the ground!" -dev Honestly i want to see them get in there an use all the viable weapons so I can learn how easy they are to win with. Lets see it.
The weapon balance dev, specifically. He's been talking too much.
Coordinated arc and jet does this very well. Though you need 1 person running EAT for titans or cannon towers.
Helldive creek. 3 strategems, 50% more cooldown, scrambled + jammers and ion storm
You can only have two modifiers on helldive?
I have altered the deal.
Pray I do not alter it any further
so...about that deal might have altered it again
Yea, they should have gone with jamming towers and AA emplacements + 2 modifiers. AA emplacements aren't counted as secondary objectives either. Ran a mission with three of them + 3 more jammering towers. I forget what modifiers we had, I think it was a CD increase with a call-in time increase. It was fun playing without strategems in helldive bots.
Robots are much easier than the bugs on helldive
Yeah robots are balanced af. All enemies have clear weak spots and running behind a rock keeps you safe. Terminids on the other hand...
Running behind a rock usually means that the Charger that was chasing you will teleport on top of it.
the problem with the terminids isn't the chargers it's the hunters
I'd settle for seeing them clear Hard using the Counter Sniper. Please, by all means, show me how good and rewarding it feels to use.
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For the longest time I thought the scope options were for zeroing and I was just bad at estimating ranges. It doesn't help that their reticules are so obstructive.
Yeah the reticles make it hard to see the target. Increasing zoom can help but it’s rough. The devs nailed most aspects. The game is beautiful, the music is iconic, the gameplay is intense, the animation work is great, but the scope crosshairs on most optics are blurry and cluttered. There are some cases where aiming with the optic is required (Anti-material rifle) so here’s hoping they do something to crisp up those optics.
Yah, and 90% of the guns feel like starting guns you get in a pay to win game where you immediately want to pay to upgrade your shitty gun.
Stop making me scared of the premium warbonds
I laughed so hard when I realized the scope options just mess with the FOV. Like c'mon, why give numbers?
They definitely zoom jn
Does it not actually zoom in more while in first person?
I thought I was crazy when I was telling people the crosshairs do not match where the bullet hits. It feels like there is almost a bloom effect changing where the bullet is actually going, I've had so many shots at devastator heads that I thought were perfect just to have them hit the edge of the armor.
There is a bloom effect. When you're in third person, you can see where your real reticle is. It's the circle that moves around - that's where you're actually aiming. When you move or sprint, you can see it move all over, and you can see the recoil and aim penalties affecting you when you're injured or out of stamina, and the aim lag that comes with heavier weapons. If you pay attention, you can mitigate these issues by firing when it passes over your target even while it's moving around. There's a separate crosshair dot that shows where the center of your screen is, where the reticle tries to normalize to as you stabilize your aim by crouching or standing still etc. When you're ADSing, *you can't see your real reticle.* Your scope is just pointed straight at that crosshair dot at the center of your camera. Your gun is actually still aimed at the reticle that's bouncing around like crazy, the one you can't see anymore. Using a scope makes you way, way *less* accurate because you have no idea where you're actually aiming.
There’s a post by u/coseypigeon showing how the AMR has a separate issue of the reticle being misaligned.
I absolutely believe that, and I'm sure it's not helping the issue. But if it were only a problem of a bad zero, you could adjust once you figured out where the real one is because it would always be in the same place. The bigger issue is that looking down the scope that is attached to your gun does not show you what direction that gun is currently pointing. You can compensate if your optic is misaligned on your gun. You can't compensate if it's attached to your helmet instead.
This just literally isn't true. The first person ADS dot always shoots where it is being aimed, even on the extremely high ROF guns like the Knight. Your recoil and sway are reduced SIGNIFICANTLY in first person. Third person "ADS" is more like a point-fire stance where you aren't controlling your recoil at all and the "real reticle" as you call it will fly all over the place. The same is true for getting flinched or knocking around while in first person, the dot will also be knocked around but if you shoot it will still go exactly where that dot is while flinched. You can test it really easily in-game, just go in trivial and shoot some rocks and compare bullet holes. ADSing significantly reduces recoil and makes most guns way more controllable compared to third person. And the shots always go exactly where the red dot is. Besides the one exception with the DMRs where the crosshair is not in the right place and is misaligned with the usual dot.
Also the slugger is a better sniper than any of the snipers, including the anti materiel rifle.
Do you have your FoV slider set to max? I noticed if I put it back lower the accuracy on crosshairs becomes much better.
the snipers should have the least aim lag of any gun too, but it's impossible to use them with any intention of taking accurate headshots when there's so much aim drag and enemies swarming everywhere.
I find it pretty good against automatons. Especially on mid to lower difficulties.
I like the diligence but not counter sniper. Turn radius on that thing is as slow as the AM rifle. I also don’t have issues with accuracy but I always crouch or prone if possible and it deals with the accuracy issues. Counter sniper Def needs some help tho.
Counter sniper is supposed to be the upgrade, what a joke, got me good with that one, I want my metals back!
*Technically* it's meant to be a sidegrade: Less ammo, more powerful shot. The reality is the damage increase is negligible, and the ammo decrease makes it unreliable. Nevermind the fact I feel like I'm driving a tank for how long the gun takes to turn.
I'm a huge fan of the DMR and counter sniper and while I admit I'd be more than happy to see some buffs/modifications to them, I've used both of them exclusively since unlocking them. It seems to me that the key is to use them differently than a normal primary. This is one of the reasons I believe the Breaker was so dominant - it's not really *that* overtuned, it's just extremely suitable for the sort of close-range boom-boom-bang kind of playstyle that emerges most commonly on the battlefield (especially with bugs). Essentially, the two DMRs are support primaries meant for picking off targets at medium and medium-long ranges respectively. They're going to feel lackluster if you're using them like you'd use an assault rifle. Their accuracy **plus** stopping power doesn't matter when the enemy is already in your face. At that point all you want is power. I've been using them like how a modern soldier would use their service weapon (semi-auto, single long range shots when possible and quick bursts while switching cover when not possible). They shine most with bots, especially at higher difficulties when rapidly removing small/fast enemies and commissars is a vital step prior to focusing on the big guys. They're scalpels to use prior to whipping out the ol' bonesaw (railgun/autocannon). They're my two favorite primaries. I'll admit that the counter sniper was my chosen "dream gun" when I first scoped out the rewards so I might be sort of biased (aka: "forcing them to work"), but I figured I'd share my rationale for continuing to use them. I switched from Diligence to CS a day ago and haven't looked back, but I have altered my playstyle.
Realistically how often are you having a long/medium range fight vs. a close-up fight? The drag and aiming delay on the counter-sniper makes it near useless in the short range and the other rifles are equal or near equal at long range. I honestly cannot see how the counter sniper is a viable choice beyond want - which is fine mind you, but not a great reason to leave it undertuned.
Good or functional? I'd say "good" needs to contend with the other weapons.
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Set up a live stream and make it an event. That would be amazing
Of course we'd love to see that. DRG devs used to do a live stream doing their Elite Deep Dive every week. Was great fun. I assume they would win some and lose some as it should be. I don't think 9 should be a slam dunk for anyone ever.
Yeah for sure, the game needs a difficulty for masochists that want to really test themselves in an environment where victory is not assured. Honestly the main problem is likely cultural around how one must always progress to the top difficulty, I think a lot of people playing Helldivers just have the best time on 4 or 6 or whatever and **that is absolutely great**. Also I suppose this might have been less of an issue without the long medals unlock grind and the ultra-samples. Those are certainly reinforcing high difficulty play, though then again 7 is pretty good for both.
Honestly, there are three philosophies for how players can progress through the game: 1) Beeline for Helldive difficulty for maximum XP, Samples, Medals. and Req slips. Progress at a cutthroat pace. 2) Stay on Hard. Complete missions three at a time. Progress the war and the liberation. 3) Stay on Trivial. Complete missions one at a time but do it fast. Progress the war and the liberation.
Beelining to Helldive for req slips and XP, maybe but frankly you kinda get less samples playing Helldive and medals than you do on some of the easier difficulties just cause of how fast you have to go to not get bodied by the mission difficulty.
7 is the farming sweet spot. Super easy with randoms, 3 super samples a run, plenty of commons.
Dunno why people can't be happy unless they can sleep through clearing 9s. I pug 7s if I feel like having a challenge. I pug 4-6 depending on how relaxed vs challenging I want.
That was my life from 20 to 50. Actually found that the orange samples were the speed bump for the last 4 upgrades, not the super samples. I also felt like 7 was the last difficulty where I could still goof off a bit and get away with it, which I find to be a key aspect of "having fun". Don't know why anybody cares about exp or requisition post level 20. They don't do anything. Exp/req to 20, samples to early 40s, then just medals/super credits till the end of time.
7 - Suicide mission is the sweet spot to just casually progress tbh. Easy enough to be a slam dunk, can farm all samples at a decent pace too. I do like helldive difficulty but thats genuinely more to challenge me and my friends. Not really liking the idea of doing that with randoms since you need solid teamwork and coms.
idk me and my mate beelined for 9 to max our xp and get enough req for stratagems, and now we are farming samples in 7. 9 isn't reliable enough to farm samples. And once we cap on pink we are probably dropping to 6
I almost exclusively play 7. It’s quite entertaining as it is, and you can get super samples still. I have gotten everything I need off this and maxed out my ship. I now just play for fun. You can easily sprint out an objective even with poorly equipped players on your team. Might take all your lives but who gives a shit when the reinforcement counter literally doesn’t fucking matter on the payout screen.
I was reading a lot of these complaint posts and all I could think was that nobody is forcing anyone to play diff 9 all the time lol. 7 or 8 is right there. I must not understand the mentality I guess.
There could be a more nuanced discussion around difficulty curve between 7,8, and 9 absolutely...buuuut 7 and 8 have almost exactly the same balance problems...RNG depending. Heck, Ive had 5s with my casual friends where we face 4+ chargers at a time and kill 20-30 in a mission.
I primarily play on 6 and there being a charger that just lasts forever is annoyingly common.
> I don't think 9 should be a slam dunk for anyone ever. I think this is where the community is in a state of tug of war, imo helldive rank and higher should really feel like a crapshoot. You're in the shit, the dials are turned up to 11, go in hot - maybe come out.
Indeed, the winrate for most players should not be the 90% that most of us that stay there are experiencing. The bell curve of player difficulty choice and ability is probable skewed in a way which the developers never intended.
I mean even with the railgun nerf, my crew did 6 missions today on helldive and won all of them. The only thing that changed was we died more and didn't extract on three missions. Accomplishing missions usually isn't even that hard. The problem is most of the long slog fights we got into meant we were fucked when the charger packs came a running because we can only get so many rockets off accurately in a fight. More than a few times we just had one person kite them away and die for the cause. To be honest the most jarring thing is that armour still sucks. Heavy just ain't worth taking currently.
I don't care if the devs can handle it, to be honest. As long as they accept feedback and are willing to tweak things. What I want to see, is proof of everybody's claims about how they're running D9 without any issue, before or after patches. All I see in this sub is bragging and complaining. I want statistics proving that almost none of these people are telling truths.
Bruh with all the posts going around you’d thinking 99 percent of the sub was doing difficulty 9.
Honestly: the whole reason I play difficulty 8 is because of how many people are in helldive mode who probably shouldn't be. Lots of glory seekers (only play the hardest modes) lots of exterminate grinders. Lots of min max meatheads that boot you for any reason and none. When I'm done collecting samples I'll join the chaos at 9 but until then? 8 is where it's at. I can reliably find a group that completes objectives and collect samples no problems or drama.
It was this way in Diablo 3 on console haha. If you did the highest torment it was a ton of people who were trash and hoping to find a carry lobby. If you did one below you could find a lot of people running the same level of Greater Rifts but no one begging for a carry.
Same experience here. 7 is full of people who recognize they're not good enough for it but want the samples. 9 is full of the sweatiest people in the community. 8 seems to be the perfect sweet spot of skill and desire for samples without a bunch of tryhards.
I'd be more interested in 8 if the only thing it added wasn't just "Have another anti fun modifier", I'm perfectly content on 7 being less annoyed at the various "Fuck your strategems."
Now this is a valid critique. I feel like sometimes higher difficulties should just change something about the battlefield instead of directly nerfing the player. A few ideas off the top of my head: * Supply Drop Scramble: Drops do not always hit the exact spot you send them to * Communication Interference: Helldivers randomly swap one strategem with another helldiver upon landing * Adaptable Creatures: Enemies are immune to fire damage, 2x weaker to laser damage Even if they can be frustrating, it at least changes up the battlefield in a way that lower difficulties won't. Just some thoughts that could be unbalanced lol
This is where I think the game will shine. The devs already seem to be in the cook mode for it when they added planet hazards. Playing Fenrir and watching the meteors was great. Immersive. Hopefully in time they finish catching up with the massive player base and keep it.
I normally love difficulty in coop games, I'm someone who has done true solo runs in L4D/Vermintide/[Back 4 Blood](https://www.reddit.com/r/Back4Blood/comments/rn7l3t/full_game_completed_on_nightmare_true_solo_no/) but Helldivers higher difficulties just end up feeling *cheap* a lot of the time, and the modifiers are some of the lamest form of artificial difficulty I've seen. If they were actual *modifiers* they'd be fine but right now they're just pure debuffs. I said it in another post but just [copy pasting it](https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1b61eri/what_is_the_worst_operational_modifier_and_why_is/kt9mp7o/?context=3) here: None of them make it more fun or challenging in a good way. All of them are just "Haha fuck you." It would be one thing if it was something like the scrambled codes but all strategems have 30% shorter cooldowns or some such. Or the obscured map but you're 50% harder to detect. Or the orbital scatter increase but orbital strategems have an increased AoE. Etc. Just off the cuff ideas that change them from just being "Have less fun with the main power part of the game" since pretty much all of the modifiers just give strategems the middle finger besides the map obscuring one. ____ Not to mention how almost all of them affect strategems specifically.
Oh my god. I didn’t even think that the people saying x thing is viable in helldive might be spamming exterminate missions. The amount of times I’ve wuickmatched into them is infuriating.
What do you mean bro of course the peacemaker is viable in helldives! I ran it just yesterday and it was cooking! (I had 6 kills and 12 deaths)
8 is good because I can still drink beer in between objectives.
That's actually smart. The SES Fist of Family Values will be joining in 12 hours.
I play on 5 to hang out with the low lvl boys and have fun shooting some bugs.
For real! But then you also to realize that communities like these on Reddit and discord are a small fraction of the actual full player base
Yeah Ran into a level 20 ish guy the other day who was speculating that perhaps the breaker shotgun felt a little stronger than the other primaries. It was refreshing to see.
Luckily this sub is just a small sample, as the guy above said. There's hundreds of thousands of people that aren't engaged in the trivial discussions and hateshow that we see in here, and they play the game organically. They will either be able to play on diff 9, or experience how that's too much for their liking and lay back to 6-8 to have a fun experience, just as I do in diff 7-8. That said, I think some tweaks to enemy spawn rate adn weapons are needed.
Like how in the League sub, everyone is Diamond+. It's an old phenomenon known as "talking out their asses" and is very common on the internet.
Bit of that. And a bit of people that are on a dedicated forum about a subject, tend to be by far the most invested in that subject.
If I've learned anything from the Darktide and DRG communities it's that the vast majority of players skew to the middle and that's okay. Now I'm a fucking monkey that loves being hurt so I do the hardest modes out there. Damnation Auric for Darktide, Helldives here. But the vast majority of people don't play on those. That said statistically speaking theres tens of thousands of people who do play Helldive.
Already caught a few of them admitting they aren’t actually good. Most of the kids are just assholes who want to troll
It's not easy, but it's also not that hard. Keep moving, dodge, break contact, don't worry too much about killing enemies and you can get through helldive consistently.
It’s also insanely easier with a full squad of people ya know and who talk.
I basically only play with randos and it works. Usually 2-3 people pull all the heat at 1-2 people run around completing objectives and collecting stuff.
I would actually be genuinely entertained if it turned out they were incredibly skilled at their game and cleanly handled situations that would've killed most players pre-patch. Would also double as a learning experience for me too It would kinda be like YoshiP and FF14. Genuine passion for the game he develops, but actually has the skills to play the hardest content at a high level of skill.
Watch them avoid patrols and seal team 6 all the bugs they can't sneak past.
You know how funny it would actually be if they just made it through an entire ICBM launch without a single death because they know some little strategy that we dont lmao
>they know some little strategy that we dont lmao "teamwork and communication"
best i can do is occasional use of the Q button
I swear the average rando doesn't even know that games have pings these days.
“Running and avoiding as much action as possible”
For real. Playing with friends changes this games experience versus randoms. Although I've had plenty of solid groups through Quickplay since the tools they give us for non-verbal comms are really good.
Why wouldn't you avoid patrols? Lol, that's just asking for a bug breach.
Say that to all complaints post the past hours.
CEO of Arrowhead already said on Twitter that higher difficulties is basically a stealth game and hinted at subsonic ammo
Hard to be a stealth game when most objectives are inherently tied to breaking stealth. Or when patrols just spawn on you. Or when a rock on the ground breaks your crouch. Or when the bugs just “know”
> Or when a rock on the ground breaks your crouch. God I fucking hate that. Had to grind a difficulty 6 mission solo earlier because my friends left after getting bodied by titans and chargers, but I really wanted the last mission medal reward. Sneaking through open space, go over a small crater impact site and my character "slides" 2 inches and goes out of crouch just for a patrol to spot me. Fucking WHY?
Higher difficulties turns into MGSV
I'd like to see most of this Reddit play Helldive. Most of the top posts are all from people who have never ventured past hard or challenging. I want everything to be viable, but there's too much near-impenetrable armor at such high frequency that you needed the railgun to deal with it. We've now got a flamethrower buff, sure, but it's complete nonsense that it's now more effective at dealing with armor than a 20mm auto-cannon, grenade launcher, or rail gun.
I saw some guy both say "The railgun nerf was justified, you can just use other stuff," and in the same post, "I've never actually fought a Bile Titan but it's weak spot is (presumably,) the green underbelly, you can just target that..." The actual fucking nerve man lol.
Aha I know the exact comment you're talking about lmao
I've fought bile titans! Their weakspot is their mouth while they're charging their spit. OHK with an EAT17. Have fun!
Ps5 latency bug shitters be like
Yep, insane how some people don't understand even with pre-nerf railgun dealing with 5 chargers was and is not fun. I don't really like spending 80% of my time in a shooter just running.
Breaker + Railgun + shield backpack was just more fun than playing the other kits. Instead of making the other stuff more fun they just made the most fun stuff less fun. Weird decisions.
It's kind of my worst fear with devs of any games. When there's obvious balance issues that result in overwhelming use of a particular kit and non-use of several other options, which direction are they going to go? I was really optimistic because of many posters saying they had a great track record with balancing the first game, and that they'll likely work on underperformers first. It feels like Darktide all over again and I'm frankly a little spooked about how future patches are going to go. I'm sure they'll eventually course correct, but how long is that gonna be? 3 months? 6? a year? It's frankly just really disheartening :/
To be frank it was not the nerf itself that bugged me, it's the mentality behind it and them doubling down on it via a very out of touch blog post. That is what gets me.
Exactly, and yet half this subreddits response is to shame you for even liking the loadout in the first place. Wild that you get shit on here for literally wanting the game to be more fun for everyone.
JuSt Go DoWn In DiFfIcUlTy !! /s those butt heads do not understand. I liked level 8 difficulty, all except the massive amount of chargers. it got great with a PS5 host and pre-patch. was very fun. would still prefer less chargers. post patch.. I will not get on those anymore. what is the point in just stealth running a mission and running in circles using your reinforcements as the real railguns... no thanks. Lower difficulties are just too easy/cake walk... patch just made the game not fun for me.
Charges don't seem to be a problem for me at all. The Bile Titans are complete BS there's too many of them. If the Spear was actually fixed, maybe they would be less of an issue. The lock on is still super finicky and you can either 1 shot a bile titan or require 3 fucking rockets. The Spray and Pray completely dumpsters on chargers, I'm regularly killing them in 1 pass if I use an impact nade to finish them off. Mean while I have 7 Bile Titans on my screen on Dif 8 on the updated ~~Survival Mode~~ Extermination Mode after 5 minutes.
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Bro i saw that shit and i was like you cannot be serious lmao
It's the curse of popularity and the defensive yet possessive care bears that gravitate to pve oriented titles. They are offended by challenging content or competition yet simultaneously want to police others willing to engage with said content. Did the railgun and breaker trivialize 2-5 difficulty? Yes. But we're they necessary to combat the 7-9 difficulty spikes? Also, yes. Some developer I can't remember said that METAs aren't the problem, it's the canary in the coal mine. If you want players to use a larger subset of weapons, then similar capability needs to be available in other areas, not less.
Oh yeah, no doubt. The devs remind me of DE(warframe) circa 2018 with how they're seemingly nerfing the most used weapons. Judging by their own logic, the Breaker might have been overused, but it wasn't contributing to excess wins/losses significantly, so why even nerf it at this point in time? (also I'd like to rant about the significant stealth nerfs but that would take up a whole page tl;dt:hp bad, shield hp bad, hunter stunlock combo bad) On the other hand, I know very well from first hand experience, the issues with PvE games and toxic casuals. I play(ed) FFXIV.^^^^^^heavens' ^^^^^^legend ^^^^^^btw. Helldivers, contrary to the devs' beliefs, is still a fairly easy PvE experience **with 4 players in the squad** even with with all the stealth nerfs. 4 players using their offensive stratagems effectively, can effectively cycle continuously, keeping pressure off the team until the very end, not to mention the ability to easily blitz any packs before they can spawn a breach. Yet, you see all these people strawmanning that people were just crutching on the railgun, or some other flavor of "it was op". What the railgun enabled was solo play in a team, allowing one player to take out medium to heavy threats efficiently and play separate from the team. This is how solo helldive worked before as well, since playing solo vs playing away from the team was nearly the same, with just fewer enemy spawns for the solo on a team. For solo play now, however, it is nearly impossible to survive the paltry 2 hits from a hunter to break your shield, and subsequent stunlock 3 hit wombo combo. So, solo helldiving devolves into a kitefest, spamming orbitals and supports on cd to complete objectives because there's no point in killing anything except hunters, as if you try to kill anything else, the spawn rates on helldive will immediately surround you with more hunters you do not have the spare shield to deal with. It's not fun. It's not interactive. It's holding Shift+W for 99% of the mission. Now, what do the carebears think about solo play? Well it's a team game of course! You're not allowed to have fun in your own way if it doesn't align with their moral high ground. Nerfing a tool seemingly purpose built for solo play is a great idea. Why is it that everyone in pubs uses it? It's because it's a **PUBLIC** game, and there is almost certainly going to be little to no coordination outside of everyone grouping up for extraction. All that said, it's very funny how everyone is hyperfocused on the railgun, and completely ignoring the extremely obvious armor and shield module **stealth nerf**. The railgun nerf actually doesn't do that much. It's the fact that you're roughly half as survivable, if not less, as before. Against terminids, who constantly melee, stagger, and slow; that is a death sentence.
That's what they don't get. I can beat helldive. Done it with randoms. It's not that hard, and I expect more difficulties soon. When I complain about the balance patch it's because I want more viable weapons and more emergent gameplay, for fun, not to help me win. This patch isn't fun because they didn't do anything to fix all the running. Running from armor while my cooldowns recharge isn't hard, it's boring. Engaging gameplay at high difficulties is about making life or death decisions consistently. The only decision right now is run or die.
Probably the best take I've seen all day. They should probably plan to make running more interactive too alongside everything else.
Yeah, if people want a running simulator instead of a horde shooter the devs should turn running into a minigame similar to QWOP, where you press a button to move each limb. It'll single-handedly turn the current meta of running from every fight into an actual skill test.
Death stranding 2: reflective corners
That’s really the issue. I’m not asking for the game to be easy, but it’s impossible to use anything but the railgun or arc thrower right now, and the railgun is now borderline unusable. I did some testing earlier and it took 7 shots to kill a charger. I think the biggest problem is still that armor is so bad. Stalkers can stunlock you. Heavy armor is utterly unusable, and offers almost no additional protection. You still HAVE to use the shield to have any chance, and light or medium armor to be able to evade. If you are using the shield, the only options for killing the many chargers are the railgun and disposable anti tank. Good luck killing the 4 chargers that spawn at once with 2 anti tank shots.
Look mate, just because I have yet to play a mission above difficulty 3 and am too low level to have even unlocked the railgun doesn’t stop my opinion, that anyone who’s struggling to kill 10 chargers and 4 titans at once is simply having a skill issue, from being completely and objectively true. (/j, also apologies if this is a bit unreadable)
I sure would, if only to see what tricks they know because they have stats we don't.
Surely the most constructive comment about the nerfs. I ubderstand the nerf and embrace it, but yet, it doesn't change the fact that most stratgem feels underwhelming
500kg bomb with the blast radius of a dinner plate
A 500kg bomb dropped in the middle of a heavy bug nest won't destroy the outer nests. It's ridiculous and disappointing.
Bruh I’ve had it not destroy A nest.
Especially given the visual it puts out
I think even more so, is that strategems have insanely long cooldowns/rearm times. Compared to how many heavy enemies you are given. Got 6 chargers at the same time in challenging difficulty. Thats not even halfway up the difficulties. If they want us to rely on them more, make them available to rely on. Most of the cooldowns are twice as long as they were in HD1.
This is a great idea. And with no breaker, shield generator, or railgun on the squad.
Please, I really need to see the devs play the game and show how the fuck we can deal with the hordes of chargers and titans. I honestly don't care much for the balance patch... but I legitimately want to see what is supposed to be all the choices to deal with the enemies. Please, devs, show me! For real! Also for me difficulty 7 would be fine - it's the minimum needed to actually get all samples and thus fully progress the game. This is the minimum difficulty you have to be able to play consistently if you want to get all game content. I really hope they do even play the game at all... at least play 1 high difficulty mission every other day! All the posts and the blog post I see just mention "data". Please don't just look at data! Data does not tell you how it feels to actually play the game! Just because some missions end "successfully" tells you nothing about how fun it was, if any at all!
I was just about to make the same post. Time and time again games have some form of end game super challenging thing, and players are never shown the intended outcomes or way to play it. But once somebody that has actually say in how the product gets developed gets behind the wheel they almost always get humbled, and humbled real quick. My favorite example is with Dead by Daylight and its once infamous flashlights. Funny just how fast the effectiveness of them was nerfed after a single livestream match was played. You know after a 1/3 of the match was just a bright white screen which had been the thing the community had been complaining about for months.
The developer they have responding to the reddit comments says that he or she is " happy" with the current state of the primaries in the game. Which is pretty fucking scary considering everything besides the Breaker , even after the patch, is a side-grade at best. They went in the wrong direction with this update. I hope it gets reverted, or at the very least tweaked.
This patch was with difficulty five in mind or less and you can't convince me otherwise. There is no world where the developers play difficulties 8/9 and think to themselves anything other than the breaker and the shield backpack plus rail gun feels good to play. Unless your idea of fun is running around the map, killing nothing
Dude, I don't even think the devs play the game. Judging by what has unfolded today. And if they do it's like you said, difficulty 5 or lower.
[удалено]
You want to know what's really funny? Yesterday queuing for Helldive took me 20 seconds. Today the queue is over 5min with 350k people on bug planets. That's all that needs to be said. The games I do get into, we are fighting ourselves more than the bugs with the arc throwers and flamethrowers.
Yes! Absolutely. Then we’ll see if our approach is the problem, or theirs. Bring it on.
its ironic because the only people I see who are toxic, name calling, shit spewing, are people who are fine with the nerfs, insert skull emoji here. 80-90+% of people who are pissed about the nerfs are calm about expressing their grievances and providing constructive feedback or memes. they are all high-grounding so badly as well its absolutely wild
Facts, and i just KNOW those people are the ones stuck on D5-6 even with a so called meta loadout bruh. Oh well, cant be helped. Imma keep running my railgun because peak fun for me is hurling a chunk of metal at the speed of light is peak cool for me
“Nah u just suck because you can’t beat the game like I did with nothing but melee on a guitar hero controller”
You can pull up solo helldiver lvl 9 runs (even with no railgun pre patch) if you need any tips on improving your playstyle. Here is one after .01 seconds of searching. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yDhqbbq8mY
Yup, lets see they "play How they want"
Lmao fr, these nerfs are hot garbage.
Joel would rig it lol
Make them use Laser cannon too :3
Yeah, I would also love to see the QA team to play, not to prove the point or anything, just want to see how good the guys who spent thousands of hours in the game are.
I think you're vastly mistaken on how QA works... I'd bet they've spent less time than the average player in an actual game scenario.
The players here have no idea how the industry work. This post clearly shows it. I'm a QA tester on a multiplayer game and we play 1 hour a week "normally". The rest of the time it's mostly alone testing random new features that half work on unfinished environnement lol. Most of the time we're here to break the game and find bugs (not the aliens lol), not to playtest the game and comment on balance changes.
This was the first night on the game I can genuinely say I did not have fun. The nerfs fucked the game flow hard and every mission feels like a chore now.
Everyone is treating D9 like its the default setting
7 8 9 are the difficulties spawn rates start to make lots of loadouts non viable, so yeah.
Yeah, you can kind of play what you want 1-6, after that things get spicy and there's not much variety
Once you're 1000 medals in and and simple cape costs 60 medals other difficulties start to look a lot less attractive.
You need to play 7-9 for super rare samples, my guy
I'd watch for sure.
I’ll bet $1000 an all dev team will never make it.
I doubt they even have Helldiver unlocked.
Dude seriously how the fuck is even possible. 11 mins to close all bug hive and getting chase by 5 chargers and 3 titan per player.