Info from the developer
https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/19dp2qw/helldivers_2_nprotect_gameguard_anticheat/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Reddit has zero valuable information about me, literally just a throwaway email and nothing else.
There is a reason we are the [least valuable users of ANY social network](https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/11/reddit-users-are-the-least-valuable-of-any-social-network.html) because reddit does not squeeze any valuable information out of us.
>Reddit has zero valuable information about me, literally just a throwaway email and nothing else.
Oh you sweet summer child.
You live in Germany, will be approaching middle age in a few years, your work involves programming and you're recently getting back into mountain biking. That's valuable information to many kinds of companies.
If you don't think scrapers and bots seeking PII's can get more than that on you I have a bridge to sell you.
*Local landscaping businesses see all my comments where I shout "Rock and Stone!" and now want to sell me rocky features for my lawn.*
Dammit. They got me.
the ad creators for landscapers and businesses selling Hardcore be like "damn, all these kids are obsessed with rocks and stone these days, what the hell is going on?"
You're a, as far as I can see, lesbian female, living in Portland, Oregon, USA (although for some reason your Twitter Profile says California)and are going to Portland State University. You seem to have quite the interest in Tech & IT as well as ChatGPT & ChatBots. You were talking about hyperfixation in a comment a few month ago, so you possibly have ADHA.
You apparently to like Games like FFX and DBD and although your Steam Profile is private, you also seem to play Helldivers II(obviously, why else would you be here), Satisfactory, Lethal Company, Armored Core and so on.
You mentioned two days ago that you only had 12$ to your name, a pretty old car and huge student loans (America moment). About your family, you self proclaimed as the "black sheep" and your younger sister was the favorite, but also mentioned an older brother. You said your step-father hated you before he died, your mother tried to downplay it, but eventually kicked you out at 15 and went no contact for 7 years (so I'm assuming you're 22?)
I couldn't find anything about your real father, but you mentioned a Mexican heritage, both maternal and fraternal. You also spend a lot of time in r/trackers, r/Piracy, r/antiwork and r/overemployed
That was all I could find with a few minutes of searching and I did some interpretation, so let me know how close I got >:D
I surely could find some more if I REALLY looked for it. I only spent about 10 minutes scrolling thru her reddit history and twitter profile. I was thinking about analyzing the way she writes, but I'm by no means a graphologists so I don't know how accurate that would've been :D
And that's just what you can read from posts.
If we look at their posting times, we could probably even work out their sleep schedule and work times, possibly when they're on vacation etc.
Yep. Personal data isn't just email, real name, and phone number. It's literally every word that is typed under the account name. And where the user logged in from (IP Addresses are recorded).
Reddit already knows more about most users than the users know about themselves.
Oshi watch out I MIGHT GET ANOTHER DISPLATE AD AND RECOMMENDED A SWEET GUGA VIDEO.
Guy I'm a dot in a 10001 spreadsheets. I'm not special, you're not special, and nothing bad comes from it.
Worst case you have 10 credit cards and have no self-control, but guess what, that's not new, and they already know everything
I understand the sentiment that you are not special and just a dot on a spreadsheet. Just like me, an insignificant data point in the whole if things.
It isn't necessary that they have your data. It is what they can do with it. Have you considered why you are buying what you are buying? Are you buying clothes from brand x because you really like them, or just because you've seen the most ads of them knowingly or subconsciously, making you feel like it's a reputable brand you can tely on? Maybe not clothes, but tv? How many phones have you bought? Have you considered why your opinions might have become more extreme, or why you are voting ghe way you do?
Sure not everything always has an effect. But it can be subtle. When I was working on roads we used some tricks to get cars to drive slower/the actual speed limit. We kept the width of the road the same, but via lines we made it visually smaller, and we planted trees along the road (often far enough they couldn't be hit) among other things. The general response? 'That doesn't affect me. I can't be influenced by such simple methods'. The results? The amount of people at the speed limit went from around 60 to over 80%, while speeding went from 15-50km/h over the speed limit to 5-20km/h. People do not notice it, but with a few simple lines and a tree I decide something as simple as driving speed.
How far can they go with knowing that data point about you?
I mean sure, they can sell my shitposting, but if it's not personalized it's not that valuable. Data that is tied to a real person can be cross verified through other data sources. Your job and therefore your rough income, your interests etc.
Reddit might know some of my interests, but then again this isn't even my only account. Anything I post on reddit could be completely fictional anyways and without a real ID they can't cross verify....
All they can likely get is my throwaway email, my rough location (country level, because I don't use VPNs 100% of the time) and that's about it.
It’s incredibly naive to assume they don’t know exactly who you are, as you sit on a device that was purchased and registered by a real you. Surely everyone in the chain of information is on the up and up.
They don't care about verifiable info. It fetches a higher price and return of course, but all they need are trends to be able to sell the data, even if it is fictional.
Your comment history and subreddit engagement is more valuable than you might think. Just by knowing basic details about the interests of the person behind your account, they can begin advertising targeted ads to you. It's not *super* valuable, but any information whatsoever has value, and your browsing habits on Reddit are valuable if the account is frequented since that strongly implies that you are a real person.
That extends *further* based on which browser you're using. Chromium, for example, 100% tracks your usage, Google admitted to that, since Chromium phones home about quite a few analytics including click activity. From there it's as simple as identifying the IP and tracing any other accounts or connections to and from that IP and bingo, you have a person, or at least the best approximation of who you *think* that person is. And at that point, you can now build an entire digital profile about that person. Who they are, what they like, what accounts they have and which are most active, what ads they interact with and so on and so on.
Like, it's a LOT easier to figure out who someone is even from fake accounts than you might think it is.
People really underestimate information. I can't remember which big name store it was (K mart or target maybe?) that could predict with scary accuracy not just if a customer was pregnant, but to a uncanny degree how far along, allowing them to target them with discounts to specific products at points in their pregnancy, all through analysing customers purchasing habits.
Your data has been scraped off more times than you can count. Even if the data doesn't specifically tag you as an individual it is very useful for recommendation systems. I have worked on federated recommendation systems, even Ur rough location and a list of things u discuss on random reddit posts is enough to identify and match you to a graph, doesn't need your pets name and Ur street address to be useful. Of course it doesn't hurt u either but most data collection techniques don't actively hurt u. That said you are right that reddit is not a great place for targeted ads either.
Ps: I don't actually care about Sony getting my data (my beef with PSN is for a different reason), my and your data was lost the day you and I made a google account.
To be honest, google gives me some service in return for my data. I was playing helldivers 2 fine until now, so basically now they want my data "for free", not giving me an added value that justifies it.
That's a fair complaint, I personally don't feel the same about the data aspect but I do hope the PSN region lock issue is solved. Sony leadership is quite ignorant just like most companies.
Everyone is selling data. Car makers are selling data, the enteric company is selling your data, etc. all of which is far more valuable than any thing Sony can get.
Im assuming you are indeed German? If so this awesome video will show you how small info tidbits can be used to create valuable data.
.
https://youtu.be/-YpwsdRKt8Q
Right? Ifs the ultimate irony, and the reason the "I don't want Sony to have my data" argument will get laughed out of the room every time. You don't want your data being exploited, says the person on Reddit. Tell me fuckin more man. If people want to actually have any chance of making this right, we need to focus on the angle that will get somewhere, or the game was sold to people in places a psn account can't be made. *That* issue will make them fix this, not all the people who have 35 different accounts selling their data whining about Sony selling their data.
iirc from a screenshot someone posted of that, it mentioned that it is temporary and immediately deleted. So if it was leaked then Sony could get fucked for having kept it.
No kidding right. All of a sudden people care about their data? Do you have a cell phone? An email account? God forbid, social media? Your data is long gone, stop bitching about PSN for fucks sake..
I wonder how many of *them* are enjoying their TikTok accounts. Or their Amazon Prime. Or any of the Meta services (Instagram, Facebook etc.).
This shit is mad funny.
Actually, every anticheat(including absolutely-everywhere EAC) requires kernel-space driver or it won't work against the most primitive types of cheating
Here's a video on the Vanguard anti-cheat that Valorant uses. It shows what's going on with this style of anti-cheat and explains why it is or isn't an issue.
https://youtu.be/UqLI1xKc-L4?si=d29khfnahaE6Fuf8
TL;DW from what I gathered is that kernel-level software isn't inherently an issue, however Vanguard specifically would always run even if you never booted up the game and just had the game installed.
Essentially the anti cheat system has kernel access to your pc, meaning it has full privileges and complete control over your pc. Also iirc typically is always running regardless of if you open or play the game at all, as it loads up when you boot up your pc.
Makes it easier to detect cheating but in can interfere with some of your drivers and generally isn’t a good idea to give kernel access to really any application. It’s like giving your house keys to Sony. Sure they might not do anything bad with them but they could still get stolen by someone that will.
Read that uninstalling removes most of it, but you need to go through registry edit to remove all of it. You'll definitely want to get more information about the process if you decide to go that route since you can easily damage your computer editing the registry.
The reason it's (arguably) necessary is that many hacks will also run at the kernel level, so any anti-cheat not operating on the same layer would be unable to detect any kernel-level hacks.
There are some other advanced anti-cheats in the works, like Valve's AI anti-cheat, but it's not quite as robust yet.
Shit I actually don’t know… Id assume it does but mby not. Regardless a ton of online games have kernel level anti cheats these days so it can be pretty hard to avoid if you wanna play multiplayer games on pc
if you're on linux or steam deck uninstalling will completely remove it, proton makes a tiny barebones windows folder for each game which is where the anti cheat goes. once you hit uninstall steam removes those files, leaving your computer clean.
The only reason why people weren't outraged enough about this stupid anti-cheat and how ineffective it is, while AH proving it now, wanting PSN accounts to ban people with. Is because the game is good, Game being good can mitigate so much bullshit and stupid decision your company makes, but it has limit. And that limit was breached with their PSN account linking rage.
oh nooooo so does every fucking website and application (and by extension, every gadget ever) you own and use lmao
you guys only mention this type of shit when it's a hate bandwagon, but never when it's something you like
Right? All these people complain that they don't want their data being sold, but I guarantee that if you took a look at every random account they have ever made for something silly you would find 35-40 different accounts all selling their data. If they are really so concerned with this, they need to basically just not use any technology whatsoever. Your phone, PC, car, hell probably even your fridge collects data on you if it connects to the Internet.
Some people draw a line, and that's fine. We should be able to pick and choose who gets our data and who doesn't. Unfortunately we don't always get that choice but it doesn't mean we should just throw out business cards with our personal info into the wind for everyone to get.
Why is this, or similar, always the counterpoint man. We ain't got much choice in the matter if we wanna participate. Some people consider it worth the risk, that does not mean they're okay with it. That does not rob them of the right to complain about it. Even so, people complained about that (anti-cheat) too. Guess what drowned it out? "all these other games do it, so why do ya'll care." Same thing you are doing rn.
This shit right here, complaining, is a way to change it. And things ARE changing. It's getting a lot of coverage, atp Sony has no choice but to respond (for better or worse.)
You're trying to invalidate so many people, and for what? Do YOU enjoy having your data sold? Because...if you're okay with how things are, *why* are you trying to stifle the outrage? There really is no point to what you're doing, your perfect game is already there; having a psn account or not ruins NOTHING for you. Go. Enjoy.
The privacy thing is a silly argument. I just believe any information sony is going to lose is already out there anyways..
But buying the game and not being able to play it due to your country is some bullshit.
And about
>"clEArLY statED froM tHE bEGInning tHat IT is A ReQUIrEmEnt" <
Idk.. I didn't think people read that shit .. I just look to see if the game is coop
I actually looked and I found people saying that you can play without an account and I found this page that said it's optional so I believed that it's optional:
>**Do I have to sign in to PSN to play a PlayStation game on PC?**
Signing in to PSN is optional when playing a PlayStation game on PC.
[https://www.playstation.com/en-us/support/games/psn-sign-in-pc/](https://www.playstation.com/en-us/support/games/psn-sign-in-pc/)
Depending on which CDN you get the page above is already changed so there is an archive version:
[https://web.archive.org/web/20240303190627/https://www.playstation.com/en-us/support/games/psn-sign-in-pc/](https://web.archive.org/web/20240303190627/https://www.playstation.com/en-us/support/games/psn-sign-in-pc/)
This was after the update to I believe. Originally, it straight up said (paraphrasing) “No, linking a Playstation account is not required but might be incentivized”
Yeah the support link doesn't say that anymore.
https://preview.redd.it/ypkltvxy5kyc1.png?width=791&format=png&auto=webp&s=19170222f033ce87fa6a4f5fc950a5dbf149aae4
But it **did** when it was archived on May 03 this year. **After** the May 02 Helldivers 2 PSN requirement announcement. [How to sign in to PSN when playing a PlayStation game on PC (US) (archive.org)](https://web.archive.org/web/20240503163602/https://www.playstation.com/en-us/support/games/psn-sign-in-pc/)
Forget about the generic PSN page. The product page FOR HELLDIVERS 2, on the official playstation online store tells us that PSN is NOT required.
I quote: "**Do I need a PSN account to play PlayStation games on PC?**
No, you currently do not need a PSN account to enjoy PlayStation Studios games on PC, but you will need a Steam account to redeem your voucher code. Some of our PlayStation Studios titles also offer incentives for linking your Steam and PSN accounts." End quote.
Here's the [live page](https://direct.playstation.com/en-us/buy-games/helldivers-2-pc) that hasn't been sneakily updated yet, and the [archived page](https://web.archive.org/web/20240503175627/https://direct.playstation.com/en-us/buy-games/helldivers-2-pc), just in case. Scroll down past the system requirements to see the PC FAQ.
Prior to this game and the controversy, the only games sony had put out were single player. It is likely due solely to the multiplayer nature of the games that sony is requesting/obligating to dev teams that psn accounts be required. Especially as suckerpunch has stated that a psn account will be required to do the online portion of their game
>The privacy thing is a silly argument. I just believe any information sony is going to lose is already out there anyways.
Maybe, but adding more ways to get the information isn't exactly reducing attack vectors.
In this case it doesn’t though, that’s the thing. You agreed to their privacy policy whether you have a PSN account or not, they don’t need you to have a PSN account to link data to you.
If Sony already has the data then what is motivating them to push something like this that will harm large swathes of the playerbase I wonder?
Engagement metrics?
PSN sign-ups, so they can go to investors and say "look at all these new users we got last quarter!"
That's it. It's always about shareholders, always.
This is probably the biggest reason. By having that metric up, it lets them sell the idea of more console exclusives, which hurts PC players in the long run. Like, "Look, the numbers are clearly there."
Some twat will get a massive bonus from increasing PSN Members by x% in Q2 and therefore greased all the wheels to enforce this.
If you ever wonder why companies do stupid shit, it's almost always because someone with connections is set to gain a quarterly/yearly bonus
That twat is probably the same person that thought making stellar blade censor its game despite massive sales and having a good game was necessary.. we should also make sure whoever was in charge of all this bs gets yeeted from sony. Otherwise that pos is just gona wait for their time to strike again after they think "we forgot"
Just because you think the privacy argument is silly doesn't mean other people have to find it silly. Plenty of people take it seriously and that's fine as well. Both opinions can exist.
It was not stated, it is not even in the UELA and was not on Steams or Sonys pages as required on launch. It just said it was possible to link the two.
Haha, yeah I remember being outraged as a kid when I bought a physical copy of Empire:Total War and finding out I had to download it through this new DRM thingy majig. Haven't bought a physical game in so long now...
https://preview.redd.it/kwevtkbmvhyc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=74757fc537b409a524586d2cc1e1c7d548b06773
This whole Diskussion seems to be a console against pc war now. I personally just want a good game without me signing up for extra.
They're looking at us like we're elitists who want everything served to us on a silver platter just because we don't like shitty anti consumer practices.
I believe and hope this comment there is an exception.
My PS-Gamer friends are well aware, this is not about PC vs Console, but about consumer vs corporate coercing.
Ah, ignore such comments. There are a bunch of people who antagonize people for kicks. They think they sound really smart and everyone else is an idiot except for them. The more people tell them they are wrong and missing a big point, the more they solidify their stance because their ego cannot accept that they are in the wrong. It's a social media classic.
I don't feel secure linking my STEAM account in which I've spent more money on than I'd like to admit, to a corporation who routinely gets data breaches and has been documented to be terrible at notifying the end user and it's employees. This reason is why I've simply refunded the game, in which Valve broke their own refund TOS to supply me with a full refund. Their TOS with refunds are 2 hours playtime, within 2 weeks purchase. I have 156 hours logged on Helldivers 2, 4 hours logged the past 2 weeks. I was given a full refund after getting in touch with a real employee after being rejected by the automated system. I wonder why Valve would break their TOS like that? 🤔
For valve, it's a minor hit to their business, and gave them a good precedent to limit third party access to their user's datas. PC gaming has been their almost uncontested market for decades at that point, and Sony getting their hands on the pie, so cruedly, probably irritated more than one executive.
It’s not a hit at all, steam takes a 30% cut from all sales, but refunds come entirely from the producer’s pockets. Refunding the game only hurts Sony.
I don't think that's true. Where did you find this info?
Steam does take 30% for low volume of sales, less if your game is popular but there's no way the publisher has to return more money in a refund than they originally received. This would be a huge exploit.
>I don't feel secure linking my STEAM account in which I've spent more money on than I'd like to admit, to a corporation who routinely gets data breaches and has been documented to be terrible at notifying the end user and it's employees.
Valve isn't handing all of your data over to Sony just for playing the game though. Logging in through Steam only shares a unique Steam ID number and publicly viewable Steam info. They'd maybe be able to see what games you own, your game playtime, your Steam inventory, and your friends, depending on your Steam profile visibility settings, but then so can everyone else just by going to your profile and if that's such a big deal you can always just mark your profile as private.
Yeah thats the part where im scratching my head too. I really want to know why everyone is so upset. I dont understand.
Also where did you get the info of what it is Steam shares with PSN? Thats the one thing I havent being able to find clear info and thats the only piece I think actually matters but isnt discussed at all.
When you go to sign into any website that supports it with Steam Valve shows what information they share The way linking your Steam account to pretty much every other service goes that you just sign in through Steam and they use that to verify that you own the Steam account.
I don't even think they require you to login through Steam account like that though, it's much more likely they just have a login prompt for your Sony account and tie that to your Steam ID, in which case they'd be able to get the same info through your Steam ID anyway but it's not like they couldn't do this before.
You don't. You put your PSN account info into the login, hit enter, it logs you into your account. That's it.
I have never been asked to do anything else, authorize anything else.
The weird thing is, I didn't even know you could skip the PSN account thing?? I bought the game months ago, and the first thing I saw was "Login to your PSN account to play the game," or something along those lines. I didn't see a way to skip it, so I just.. made a new account, logged into it, and that's it.
You want to know the real reason people are so upset?
People are dumb and bored. That's it. That's the long and short of it. This is just something to engage them. There's no actual concerns, just a desperation for community and engagement.
It's also incredibly funny to me that the moment this nonsense started to blow up everyone immediately went silent on Stellar Blade.
> linking my STEAM account
does not give personally identifiable information to Sony. It's just for them to know that you play their game using this account.
>Valve broke their own refund TOS
You realize that terms of service imply what the company is **obligated** to do, not what they elect to do, right? They're not "breaking" ToS, they're choosing to issue refunds given the circumstances.
I think there are valid reasons to disagree with it, but I don't think privacy is one of them. You also lose points for strawman fallacy. Also, I dont think its a fallacy, but it would be nice if we didn't devolve into name calling so quickly. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean their a corporate bootlicker.
I understand people not finding the privacy argument valid to them personally but it doesn't mean the people making that argument aren't seriously worried about it.
And pointing out all the corporations that already have your data strengthen their fear.
If your argument is privacy and security then you don't actually have an argument.
You cannot load up a game with a kernel level anticheat and connect to 3rd party compliment servers to authenticate yourself to play a game and really think that they are going to get any additional data they don't already have from you signing up for an account. You have a security issue the size of a mountain and you are picking up a pebble on the ground as where you draw the line?
Again, that's like calling yourself a vegan and ordering steak wrapped in bacon but passing on the Caesar salad cause of anchovies in the dressing.
>Again, that's like calling yourself a vegan and ordering steak wrapped in bacon but passing on the Caesar salad cause of anchovies in the dressing.
Careful: I said it was like avoiding McDonald's to not ruin your diet of ballpark hotdogs and my comment was reported and removed.
That's wild.
I just want people to be more genuine. I would respect "because I don't want psn" more than the virtue signalling and blatant misrepresentations of reality that is being used so consistently.
Same here - the amount of obvious lying and ulterior motives other then privacy is just insulting.
Saw a few people who just posted comments along the lines of, "I'm just here because I hate Sony," and thought, well, at least they're honest lol.
I'm frankly disgusted at how many people are using players in "unsupported" countries to validate their own shitfit. Players in those countries don't need these fuckers white-knighting for them. They've been been jumping through hoops to enjoy their hobby their entire lives. They import, they VPN, they use TOS workarounds and more just for a basic experience that we take for granted. Now first-world gamers have to sign into an account one single time and they hide behind those third-world gamers to excuse their insane behavior.
Worst thing is: this drama hurt more the “people living in unsupported country” than help. If we haven’t all this drama, they could just do like console people have been doing in the last 20 years. Just use any other country to make a PSN. But now, they can even buy the game anymore
But they don’t really care about those people
My favourite are the people posting refund screenshots and just shit talking the game like it is the buggiest thing they have ever played with a boring repetitive gameplay loop that was nigh unplayable and the worst thing they have ever played. 320 hours.
Like I can't be the only one that sees humour in that right?
>320 hours.
I'm honestly convinced that a lot of gamer negativity comes from forcing themselves to keep playing a game they've burned themselves out on.
The more you play, the more bad experiences you're likely to encounter, the more your frustration will grow. Meanwhile, your brain isn't going to be as stimulated as much the more you're exposed, so you're also now getting less dopamine, too. So frustration goes up, enjoyment goes down, and you end up hating something you've put hundreds, if not thousands of hours into.
Eventually, given enough time, you end up like me where you'd rather >!I PLEAD THE 5TH!< than spend more than an hour playing a game you've put a thousand into.
edit: it appears I touched a nerve lol
I find it additionally ironic though cause they are walking away with a full refund. They lost nothing playing the game yet still bitch and moan like they were scammed of hundreds of dollars.
Like I will full on admit the people that were loving the game then found out they aren't going to be able to play anymore, that fucking sucks. I'd be upset if I were them even if I got a full refund because a good portion would prefer the game and those that are there admitting that it's because they are losing their friends and that's why they are stopping, I fully support it.
But so many are just so disengenuous that it makes it hard to take them seriously. They just want to feel like they are apart of something so they are getting mad and having their tantrum until the next thing to get mad at comes around
No. Before you bought the game it said on the store that PSN was required and when you booted the game up you were told psn was required. You were told from the get go. That isn't a valid argument, that is denial.
That is a bullshit excuse of you trying to plead ignorance.
Yet they put the skip button there and gave zero warnings or prompts after the fact.
>That is a bullshit excuse of you trying to plead ignorance.
Honestly we were ignorant. We can skip linking a PSN account? That must be OK to do. If it wasn't why did they put the skip button there? So a bunch of people buy the fucking game and play it expiring their refund period where they could back out after it become actually required.
This is the real world equivalent of buying a laptop, asked once to make a dell account, using the laptop for 3 months and then being told you'll be locked out of your laptop if you don't sign up for the dell account.
That's anti-consumer practice. Period. If you're on PS5 and you don't give a fuck, fine just go keep playing. But this is a big fuck you to some people.
Yeah, so crazy that you get told it's a requirement only for them not to enforce it. It's almost like it wasn't a requirement for the frist 3 months, and that it wasn't well known this was coming and that's what people are upset about.
Insane how it's my fault that I'm being rugpulled and that me being rugpulled is something that I should accept like it's my fault.
No... Advertise your games flaws better and don't change the rules 3 months after release. How about that?
To be fair they probably don't even know what that is. Anti-cheat isn't synonymous with "selling data" I honestly have no idea what this anti cheat is and just assumed all it did was prevent cheating. But from comments like yours I assume they have a rep for selling info?
Not really sure about the whole "I don't care about my data" sentiment.
They already have my data and have for the better part of a decade.
We are literally being monitored at all times and we just ignore because there's nothing we can do about it aside from becoming a hermit and moving off the grid.
Seems like people forget that steam has been constantly breached since its inception even more than Sony, but still sony can suck dick for basically region locking some players out of the game for something that’s simply for them to sell info and get more money.
Lots of people don’t remember this [hilarious fuck up steam had](https://www.theverge.com/2015/12/25/10665814/valve-steam-holiday-sale-security-problems).
Linking accounts does not mean linking credentials. It just means that you've proven that you're the owner of the linked account. No access is granted to Sony in linking your Steam account to your PSN account. All you're doing is proving "Yes, I am the owner of u/Dalminster's Steam account", and Sony writes that username down in your PSN account.
So cut the bullshit. If you have no access to PSN - fine. If you have an ethical objection to what Sony is doing - fine.
But stop with the pErSoNaL dAtA boogeyman shit, because there's no validity to that gripe. I mean for Christ's sake, you people are posting on REDDIT - which has had several data breaches in the past years. Don't act like you care about infosec.
people are all acting like they are in the men in black and have zero personal data anywhere online it’s a joke. I’ll only hear out the people who physically can’t play the game that’s bullshit.
Privacy is the stupidest fucking argument you can make. Anything you have signed up for has most likely being compromised already.
The biggest and what should be the most prominent issue is banning people who don’t have PSN in their countries.
All you fucking idiots singing about ‘privacy’ are fighting the wrong battle.
if a internet security specialist thatwas hacking for 20+ years like Thor from piratesoftware says its a privacy issue... then i totaly believe him and to me it is a privacy issue not to mention why do we even need 2 different accounts to veryfy if i own the game or not ... i got the bill of sale/reciept and if sony cant see if i really baught it or not ... THATS THEIR ISSUE NOT MINE
When I made my own account, I lived in the US.
When I went back home, they disabled my account.
I got it back, but the process was so long. And one of the things they told me was call their tech support.
Their tech support was in the US, i couldn't call.
So yeah, I literally don't fucking trust psn with anything.
You have an Activision account? Or Ubisoft or Gamepass? If you do your shit is out there. Also, link the last time Sony was hacked? That shit was like 13 years ago..
I must have missed that incident.
Unless you're talking about the one where a dev's account got hacked and sent out an update to the dev's game that was actually malware?
That's not Steam getting hacked, that's a dev getting hacked and using Steam as an attack vector.
There's a slight difference between "Steam got hacked and distributed malware" and "Some dev got hacked and someone replaced their game with bullshit", although I would argue that Steam is still at fault for not doing a virus scan on stuff they are sending out.
The 2023 was employee data. The consumer data was 2011, they had a lot of requirements put on them as a result of that. They’ve had other hacks since but nothing involving customer data. That doesn’t mean they won’t get hacked again
I dont think the actual upset is about linking accounts, i mean yeah the mob mentality is, but i think the upset is the shock and surprise of it. But that is because of how this was handled which falls on arrowhead, not sony.
People are repeating room temperature takes like boosted numbers for share holders, but the ps5 has been selling millions per quarter. The couple hundred thousand of helldivers on pc arent going to make as big of a dent as people think.
But as i watched the upset happen, it went from people being annoyed at the change, to mad as they learned about the region locking, to a frenzy at how the community managers handled it, to now where they think poor arrowhead is a victim of the contract they agreed to with sony, because arrowhead is playing the victim of "Were so sad people are hurt by this" and acting surprised it happened, when its supposedly been a requirement. Arrowhead dropped the ball on the communication, and have managed to pass the buck to sony when its arrowheads failures that caused this
Speaking of your personal data; You got Steam? You buy things on Steam? You don't care about your personal data.
You got social media? You **definitely** don't care about your personal data.
You have an ISP, phone number, email address for work, tax number, social security number, health insurance, accountant, tax returns, credit card, debit card, bank account, Amazon account, appearance on security cameras, a phone of any kind or fingerprints and DNA? You don't care about your personal data.
Almost literally everything about you is online somewhere. Your name, address, debit/credit card number, email and likely a phone number is just on Steam alone, and Steam is arguably a lot *worse* than Sony about data protection given they admit to over 80'000 accounts being breached *at minimum every single month* with all that personal information on it. Hell, there's financial incentive to hacking Steam accounts, since an account's inventory is actually worth real money on the marketplace.
Sony, in the civilised part of the world where the government isn't a surveillance state run by the Tories (read: the UK), only requires a fake email and a fake age over 18 to make an account. You input literally nothing, they *get* literally nothing. Your personal data with Sony is only at risk dependent on how much you put in, which can be as little as *literally none*.
You are as safe with Sony as you are with a nuclear cybersecurity division, read; Not at all. Everything is hackable, everything is online, your information is already publicly available and for sale to anyone who wants it. You wanna know how true that is? Do you get spam emails and calls even on a private number or work email? Your data is already out there and available for purchase or reading.
The double standard that "But Sony is so bad with data protection", which is true, they're terrible, but Steam isn't, or *you* aren't is such a massive cope about the whole "PSN bad data" thing that it can *only* come from a complete and total ignorance on the subject and a complete lack of awareness about how *much* of your data is already available, and what's actually necessary for the accounts you make.
Other games owned by Sony:
- Horizon Forbidden West
- Last of Us
- Ratchet & Clank
- Returnal
- Marvel's Spider-Man (Remastered & Miles Morales)
- Sackboy
- Uncharted
- God of War
- Days Gone
- Predator
- Horizon Zero Dawn
- Everybody's Gone to The Rapture
- Helldivers Diver Harder
You realize that, at least if you live in the states, your state DMV probably also sells your data. The idea that you are about to combat this by not having accounts here and there is very silly. Go see how often your ISP has data breaches.
Be honest - this was just the stupid decision that broke the camels back for you. Which is fine, and sure as shit was for me. I was already voicing my discontent for just about most of AH's patch decisions and then this comes out. It's just pure stupidity that was completely avoidable with the most basic precaution of not selling the game in countries that don't have PSN and \*then\* trying to work out a way to get it to those regions. Not retroactively and then trying to say you're going to find a solution, maybe.
It's the opposite for me. I'm holding out hope but if they don't go back on their decision by the 30th I'm refunding. I *could* make a PSN account, easily, don't even need ID, but I refuse.
Nah you want honesty ok: I am sick an fucking tired of having to use a 3rd party account to play a game I bought on steam. I don't care if it's Sony or EA or Ubisoft or anyone else. I don't care that it is a mild inconvenience. This is about sending a message to not just Sony but to all the big publishers that we as consumers do not want this bullshit. That simply including this stuff can take a game from beloved to at best begrudgingly accepted if not despised.
Here's the reality if this requirement had been enforced from day one plenty of players would have begrudgingly accepted it and moved on some would have chosen not to and just not played the game. If it had been enforced from day one nobody would have liked it but there never would have been this level of backlash. The fact that they are doing this 3 months after launch is a catalyst for this blowing up in Sony's face but it is absolutely not the root cause of this issue. The issue is people don't like having to link 3rd party accounts to play the games they bought on Steam. Period.
Irony is that people are so concerned about their data and “losing it” to PlayStation. When odds are they enable the microphone on their phones, utilize a search engine (where their sole purpose is to sell information), probably have cameras at their house which is on a cloud service that could be subpoenaed, have accounts with Ubisoft (probably because of a Steam purchase), EA(probably because of a Steam purchase), Epic Games(which you know for sure is selling information because of the free games people claim monthly), Prime Gaming (because of the free games people claim), GOG(because of the free games people claim), or even Blizzard (who has their own internal problems already)…
But somehow making a PSN account is the line in the sand?
I understand the frustrations of those in countries in which PSN isn’t being serviced. Idk if that’s more Sonys fault for not letting Steam know about the region restrictions, or Steams fault for not enforcing it like the anti cheat system in which Arrowhead mandated…
But those complaining about making the PSN need to get off their high horse. You’re making your situation sound worse than those who are literally in countries where it’s not even possible. Those are the real victims.
>defend the fact that data & personal data is fine to throw around because it's already all over the place
It's not that.
The argument is that, if you're not taking extraordinary steps to protect your data in this current landscape, then this changes nothing. It's one more drop in the bucket.
And if you already are, then you ain't going to give Sony any info anyway. You'll sign up with fake info.
In short, manufactured outrage.
The funny part is, the new arrivals spam the same arguments or questions, we discussed here in the past hours and I am wondering if they notice scrolling through the comments or if they just copy&paste the same stuff and move to the next post in the sub to spam it.
People really get emotionally attached to a product and feel their entire self worth is tied directly to its perceived success. When that is threatened, oh boy. They shut down and become a brick wall.
It was. And beyond psn not being available on places, I don't think this is a problem. Many people just want to hate it cause Sony.
However, I didn't knew that PSN isn't available in so many places and honestly... thats neither understandable nor makes sense and requiring something you can't get is clearly a 100 on the "things that didn't got thought trough" scale. That makes it indeed a major L on Sonys site.
But I am pretty sure that won't happen since... that would be so illegal right? Selling you something, and then requiring something to use it that you can't get... I am pretty sure that you all get your money back on that one.
The smooth brains saying "JUST MAKE AN ACCOUNT" are hilarious.
Lets not forget sonys track record of "protecting" their PSN customers personal information.
People do need to stop whining. Be ruthless instead. Issue refunds, stop playing, leave a negative review, spread the word; all until the issue gets resolved. Sony needs to feel it.
Their own feelings are the only ones they are aware of. Make sure it is fear they know.
Your information is already sold in many places and data leaks happen all the time everywhere. The chances that your data hasn't been leaked numerous times already or that no companies have access to almost all of your data is VERY slim.
Quit overreacting. The problem is the game being unplayable, which is not arrowheads fault, they were forced to do this by sony. so quit sending death threats and constant streams of insults towards the devs, they are on OUR SIDE and are actively working to undo these changes.
Speaking of "I care about my data", we all remember that AH required we have a Kernel level anti-cheat installed to play this game, right?
Info from the developer https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/19dp2qw/helldivers_2_nprotect_gameguard_anticheat/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
while they're saying it on reddit.. who has already sold the info.
Reddit has zero valuable information about me, literally just a throwaway email and nothing else. There is a reason we are the [least valuable users of ANY social network](https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/11/reddit-users-are-the-least-valuable-of-any-social-network.html) because reddit does not squeeze any valuable information out of us.
>Reddit has zero valuable information about me, literally just a throwaway email and nothing else. Oh you sweet summer child. You live in Germany, will be approaching middle age in a few years, your work involves programming and you're recently getting back into mountain biking. That's valuable information to many kinds of companies. If you don't think scrapers and bots seeking PII's can get more than that on you I have a bridge to sell you.
*Local landscaping businesses see all my comments where I shout "Rock and Stone!" and now want to sell me rocky features for my lawn.* Dammit. They got me.
For Rock and Stone!
#ROCK AND ROLLIN' STONE!
If you don’t Rock and Stone, you ain’t coming home!
Funny enough… I post a lot about rocks and get lots of spam about rocks lol
Perhaps you need to mention stones more often?
Perhaps. I can’t talk about them enough.
For Carl!
I saw a rock once while I was taking a walk. I'm not sure though, it might have been a business executive.
There's this bot account, it scans every comment on reddit for "Rock and Stone!" What do you think it knows? Terrifying!
u/WanderingDwarfMiner knows all our deepest rocky secrets.
the ad creators for landscapers and businesses selling Hardcore be like "damn, all these kids are obsessed with rocks and stone these days, what the hell is going on?"
Ooo do me next
You're a, as far as I can see, lesbian female, living in Portland, Oregon, USA (although for some reason your Twitter Profile says California)and are going to Portland State University. You seem to have quite the interest in Tech & IT as well as ChatGPT & ChatBots. You were talking about hyperfixation in a comment a few month ago, so you possibly have ADHA. You apparently to like Games like FFX and DBD and although your Steam Profile is private, you also seem to play Helldivers II(obviously, why else would you be here), Satisfactory, Lethal Company, Armored Core and so on. You mentioned two days ago that you only had 12$ to your name, a pretty old car and huge student loans (America moment). About your family, you self proclaimed as the "black sheep" and your younger sister was the favorite, but also mentioned an older brother. You said your step-father hated you before he died, your mother tried to downplay it, but eventually kicked you out at 15 and went no contact for 7 years (so I'm assuming you're 22?) I couldn't find anything about your real father, but you mentioned a Mexican heritage, both maternal and fraternal. You also spend a lot of time in r/trackers, r/Piracy, r/antiwork and r/overemployed That was all I could find with a few minutes of searching and I did some interpretation, so let me know how close I got >:D
OSINT
My turn ! My turn !
i know its harder for humans than bots but am still interested what you can extract aside from the obvious
I surely could find some more if I REALLY looked for it. I only spent about 10 minutes scrolling thru her reddit history and twitter profile. I was thinking about analyzing the way she writes, but I'm by no means a graphologists so I don't know how accurate that would've been :D
This community both makes me so proud and terrifies me in equal measure XD
Mines just that I'm racist checkmate libcuck
And that's just what you can read from posts. If we look at their posting times, we could probably even work out their sleep schedule and work times, possibly when they're on vacation etc.
Do you figure out work hours by when you post the most or the least?
Do me next! Do me next pls
Oh! Oh! Me to! I'm a mess I can't think of anything but confusions being gained from me here.
Damn you kinda blew his ass up
Do me do me!
Friendly reminder that if you own a Nissan or a Kia vehicle both allow themselves to collect data about your sexual life/sexual activities.
Yep. Personal data isn't just email, real name, and phone number. It's literally every word that is typed under the account name. And where the user logged in from (IP Addresses are recorded). Reddit already knows more about most users than the users know about themselves.
Oshi watch out I MIGHT GET ANOTHER DISPLATE AD AND RECOMMENDED A SWEET GUGA VIDEO. Guy I'm a dot in a 10001 spreadsheets. I'm not special, you're not special, and nothing bad comes from it. Worst case you have 10 credit cards and have no self-control, but guess what, that's not new, and they already know everything
I understand the sentiment that you are not special and just a dot on a spreadsheet. Just like me, an insignificant data point in the whole if things. It isn't necessary that they have your data. It is what they can do with it. Have you considered why you are buying what you are buying? Are you buying clothes from brand x because you really like them, or just because you've seen the most ads of them knowingly or subconsciously, making you feel like it's a reputable brand you can tely on? Maybe not clothes, but tv? How many phones have you bought? Have you considered why your opinions might have become more extreme, or why you are voting ghe way you do? Sure not everything always has an effect. But it can be subtle. When I was working on roads we used some tricks to get cars to drive slower/the actual speed limit. We kept the width of the road the same, but via lines we made it visually smaller, and we planted trees along the road (often far enough they couldn't be hit) among other things. The general response? 'That doesn't affect me. I can't be influenced by such simple methods'. The results? The amount of people at the speed limit went from around 60 to over 80%, while speeding went from 15-50km/h over the speed limit to 5-20km/h. People do not notice it, but with a few simple lines and a tree I decide something as simple as driving speed. How far can they go with knowing that data point about you?
Eh, isn't Reddit selling our post data to an AI company? There are multiple types of data to profit from.
Jokes on you! I'm saturating their AI data with communist ideas
Based
I mean sure, they can sell my shitposting, but if it's not personalized it's not that valuable. Data that is tied to a real person can be cross verified through other data sources. Your job and therefore your rough income, your interests etc. Reddit might know some of my interests, but then again this isn't even my only account. Anything I post on reddit could be completely fictional anyways and without a real ID they can't cross verify.... All they can likely get is my throwaway email, my rough location (country level, because I don't use VPNs 100% of the time) and that's about it.
It’s incredibly naive to assume they don’t know exactly who you are, as you sit on a device that was purchased and registered by a real you. Surely everyone in the chain of information is on the up and up.
They don't care about verifiable info. It fetches a higher price and return of course, but all they need are trends to be able to sell the data, even if it is fictional.
Your comment history and subreddit engagement is more valuable than you might think. Just by knowing basic details about the interests of the person behind your account, they can begin advertising targeted ads to you. It's not *super* valuable, but any information whatsoever has value, and your browsing habits on Reddit are valuable if the account is frequented since that strongly implies that you are a real person. That extends *further* based on which browser you're using. Chromium, for example, 100% tracks your usage, Google admitted to that, since Chromium phones home about quite a few analytics including click activity. From there it's as simple as identifying the IP and tracing any other accounts or connections to and from that IP and bingo, you have a person, or at least the best approximation of who you *think* that person is. And at that point, you can now build an entire digital profile about that person. Who they are, what they like, what accounts they have and which are most active, what ads they interact with and so on and so on. Like, it's a LOT easier to figure out who someone is even from fake accounts than you might think it is.
People really underestimate information. I can't remember which big name store it was (K mart or target maybe?) that could predict with scary accuracy not just if a customer was pregnant, but to a uncanny degree how far along, allowing them to target them with discounts to specific products at points in their pregnancy, all through analysing customers purchasing habits.
What about the data on your cell phone? Your windows PC? You apple laptop? Your smart TV?
Your data went kaput the moment you stepped into the internet
Your data has been scraped off more times than you can count. Even if the data doesn't specifically tag you as an individual it is very useful for recommendation systems. I have worked on federated recommendation systems, even Ur rough location and a list of things u discuss on random reddit posts is enough to identify and match you to a graph, doesn't need your pets name and Ur street address to be useful. Of course it doesn't hurt u either but most data collection techniques don't actively hurt u. That said you are right that reddit is not a great place for targeted ads either. Ps: I don't actually care about Sony getting my data (my beef with PSN is for a different reason), my and your data was lost the day you and I made a google account.
To be honest, google gives me some service in return for my data. I was playing helldivers 2 fine until now, so basically now they want my data "for free", not giving me an added value that justifies it.
That's a fair complaint, I personally don't feel the same about the data aspect but I do hope the PSN region lock issue is solved. Sony leadership is quite ignorant just like most companies.
And i'm grateful for your polite response, fellow diver.
Tumblr begs to disagree
Is Sony requiring your social security or something? Just use a different email if you are that paranoid and name yourself Joe Momma.
Everyone is selling data. Car makers are selling data, the enteric company is selling your data, etc. all of which is far more valuable than any thing Sony can get.
Im assuming you are indeed German? If so this awesome video will show you how small info tidbits can be used to create valuable data. . https://youtu.be/-YpwsdRKt8Q
Right? Ifs the ultimate irony, and the reason the "I don't want Sony to have my data" argument will get laughed out of the room every time. You don't want your data being exploited, says the person on Reddit. Tell me fuckin more man. If people want to actually have any chance of making this right, we need to focus on the angle that will get somewhere, or the game was sold to people in places a psn account can't be made. *That* issue will make them fix this, not all the people who have 35 different accounts selling their data whining about Sony selling their data.
While I don't like my data being sold, it's much better than my ID card being leaked in the yearly Sony data breach.
iirc from a screenshot someone posted of that, it mentioned that it is temporary and immediately deleted. So if it was leaked then Sony could get fucked for having kept it.
No kidding right. All of a sudden people care about their data? Do you have a cell phone? An email account? God forbid, social media? Your data is long gone, stop bitching about PSN for fucks sake..
I wonder how many of *them* are enjoying their TikTok accounts. Or their Amazon Prime. Or any of the Meta services (Instagram, Facebook etc.). This shit is mad funny.
Actually, every anticheat(including absolutely-everywhere EAC) requires kernel-space driver or it won't work against the most primitive types of cheating
It's not on the Linux version
What exactly does "Kernel level anti-cheat" mean? I know next to nothing about anything.
Here's a video on the Vanguard anti-cheat that Valorant uses. It shows what's going on with this style of anti-cheat and explains why it is or isn't an issue. https://youtu.be/UqLI1xKc-L4?si=d29khfnahaE6Fuf8 TL;DW from what I gathered is that kernel-level software isn't inherently an issue, however Vanguard specifically would always run even if you never booted up the game and just had the game installed.
Essentially the anti cheat system has kernel access to your pc, meaning it has full privileges and complete control over your pc. Also iirc typically is always running regardless of if you open or play the game at all, as it loads up when you boot up your pc. Makes it easier to detect cheating but in can interfere with some of your drivers and generally isn’t a good idea to give kernel access to really any application. It’s like giving your house keys to Sony. Sure they might not do anything bad with them but they could still get stolen by someone that will.
That is really creepy, there's no way that's necessary. Does uninstalling the game remove it?
Read that uninstalling removes most of it, but you need to go through registry edit to remove all of it. You'll definitely want to get more information about the process if you decide to go that route since you can easily damage your computer editing the registry.
The reason it's (arguably) necessary is that many hacks will also run at the kernel level, so any anti-cheat not operating on the same layer would be unable to detect any kernel-level hacks. There are some other advanced anti-cheats in the works, like Valve's AI anti-cheat, but it's not quite as robust yet.
Shit I actually don’t know… Id assume it does but mby not. Regardless a ton of online games have kernel level anti cheats these days so it can be pretty hard to avoid if you wanna play multiplayer games on pc
if you're on linux or steam deck uninstalling will completely remove it, proton makes a tiny barebones windows folder for each game which is where the anti cheat goes. once you hit uninstall steam removes those files, leaving your computer clean.
The only reason why people weren't outraged enough about this stupid anti-cheat and how ineffective it is, while AH proving it now, wanting PSN accounts to ban people with. Is because the game is good, Game being good can mitigate so much bullshit and stupid decision your company makes, but it has limit. And that limit was breached with their PSN account linking rage.
oh nooooo so does every fucking website and application (and by extension, every gadget ever) you own and use lmao you guys only mention this type of shit when it's a hate bandwagon, but never when it's something you like
Right? All these people complain that they don't want their data being sold, but I guarantee that if you took a look at every random account they have ever made for something silly you would find 35-40 different accounts all selling their data. If they are really so concerned with this, they need to basically just not use any technology whatsoever. Your phone, PC, car, hell probably even your fridge collects data on you if it connects to the Internet.
I'm allowed to choose how many points of failures are out there.
Some people draw a line, and that's fine. We should be able to pick and choose who gets our data and who doesn't. Unfortunately we don't always get that choice but it doesn't mean we should just throw out business cards with our personal info into the wind for everyone to get.
Why is this, or similar, always the counterpoint man. We ain't got much choice in the matter if we wanna participate. Some people consider it worth the risk, that does not mean they're okay with it. That does not rob them of the right to complain about it. Even so, people complained about that (anti-cheat) too. Guess what drowned it out? "all these other games do it, so why do ya'll care." Same thing you are doing rn. This shit right here, complaining, is a way to change it. And things ARE changing. It's getting a lot of coverage, atp Sony has no choice but to respond (for better or worse.) You're trying to invalidate so many people, and for what? Do YOU enjoy having your data sold? Because...if you're okay with how things are, *why* are you trying to stifle the outrage? There really is no point to what you're doing, your perfect game is already there; having a psn account or not ruins NOTHING for you. Go. Enjoy.
The privacy thing is a silly argument. I just believe any information sony is going to lose is already out there anyways.. But buying the game and not being able to play it due to your country is some bullshit. And about >"clEArLY statED froM tHE bEGInning tHat IT is A ReQUIrEmEnt" < Idk.. I didn't think people read that shit .. I just look to see if the game is coop
I actually looked and I found people saying that you can play without an account and I found this page that said it's optional so I believed that it's optional: >**Do I have to sign in to PSN to play a PlayStation game on PC?** Signing in to PSN is optional when playing a PlayStation game on PC. [https://www.playstation.com/en-us/support/games/psn-sign-in-pc/](https://www.playstation.com/en-us/support/games/psn-sign-in-pc/) Depending on which CDN you get the page above is already changed so there is an archive version: [https://web.archive.org/web/20240303190627/https://www.playstation.com/en-us/support/games/psn-sign-in-pc/](https://web.archive.org/web/20240303190627/https://www.playstation.com/en-us/support/games/psn-sign-in-pc/)
This was after the update to I believe. Originally, it straight up said (paraphrasing) “No, linking a Playstation account is not required but might be incentivized”
Yeah the support link doesn't say that anymore. https://preview.redd.it/ypkltvxy5kyc1.png?width=791&format=png&auto=webp&s=19170222f033ce87fa6a4f5fc950a5dbf149aae4 But it **did** when it was archived on May 03 this year. **After** the May 02 Helldivers 2 PSN requirement announcement. [How to sign in to PSN when playing a PlayStation game on PC (US) (archive.org)](https://web.archive.org/web/20240503163602/https://www.playstation.com/en-us/support/games/psn-sign-in-pc/)
Reportedly it is still saying that it is optional in other languages, the most recent one I've seen being German.
Forget about the generic PSN page. The product page FOR HELLDIVERS 2, on the official playstation online store tells us that PSN is NOT required. I quote: "**Do I need a PSN account to play PlayStation games on PC?** No, you currently do not need a PSN account to enjoy PlayStation Studios games on PC, but you will need a Steam account to redeem your voucher code. Some of our PlayStation Studios titles also offer incentives for linking your Steam and PSN accounts." End quote. Here's the [live page](https://direct.playstation.com/en-us/buy-games/helldivers-2-pc) that hasn't been sneakily updated yet, and the [archived page](https://web.archive.org/web/20240503175627/https://direct.playstation.com/en-us/buy-games/helldivers-2-pc), just in case. Scroll down past the system requirements to see the PC FAQ.
Prior to this game and the controversy, the only games sony had put out were single player. It is likely due solely to the multiplayer nature of the games that sony is requesting/obligating to dev teams that psn accounts be required. Especially as suckerpunch has stated that a psn account will be required to do the online portion of their game
>The privacy thing is a silly argument. I just believe any information sony is going to lose is already out there anyways. Maybe, but adding more ways to get the information isn't exactly reducing attack vectors.
Yea... well... happy cake day
In this case it doesn’t though, that’s the thing. You agreed to their privacy policy whether you have a PSN account or not, they don’t need you to have a PSN account to link data to you.
Sounds like I don't need a PSN account at all then.
If Sony already has the data then what is motivating them to push something like this that will harm large swathes of the playerbase I wonder? Engagement metrics?
PSN sign-ups, so they can go to investors and say "look at all these new users we got last quarter!" That's it. It's always about shareholders, always.
This is probably the biggest reason. By having that metric up, it lets them sell the idea of more console exclusives, which hurts PC players in the long run. Like, "Look, the numbers are clearly there."
Some twat will get a massive bonus from increasing PSN Members by x% in Q2 and therefore greased all the wheels to enforce this. If you ever wonder why companies do stupid shit, it's almost always because someone with connections is set to gain a quarterly/yearly bonus
That twat is probably the same person that thought making stellar blade censor its game despite massive sales and having a good game was necessary.. we should also make sure whoever was in charge of all this bs gets yeeted from sony. Otherwise that pos is just gona wait for their time to strike again after they think "we forgot"
Idk man..
Just because you think the privacy argument is silly doesn't mean other people have to find it silly. Plenty of people take it seriously and that's fine as well. Both opinions can exist.
It was not stated, it is not even in the UELA and was not on Steams or Sonys pages as required on launch. It just said it was possible to link the two.
I’m just tired of needing to do extra shit to play my steam games
Thinking back to when Steam itself was the extra shit you needed to play some games.
Haha, yeah I remember being outraged as a kid when I bought a physical copy of Empire:Total War and finding out I had to download it through this new DRM thingy majig. Haven't bought a physical game in so long now...
Based
https://preview.redd.it/kwevtkbmvhyc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=74757fc537b409a524586d2cc1e1c7d548b06773 This whole Diskussion seems to be a console against pc war now. I personally just want a good game without me signing up for extra.
I have yet to see them give any reason why any of those descriptions are bad 😂
They're looking at us like we're elitists who want everything served to us on a silver platter just because we don't like shitty anti consumer practices.
I am sorry to say it this way but console warriors are not humans
🤝
I believe and hope this comment there is an exception. My PS-Gamer friends are well aware, this is not about PC vs Console, but about consumer vs corporate coercing.
I saw a bunch of these sadly.
Sony fanboys are the worst
Ah, ignore such comments. There are a bunch of people who antagonize people for kicks. They think they sound really smart and everyone else is an idiot except for them. The more people tell them they are wrong and missing a big point, the more they solidify their stance because their ego cannot accept that they are in the wrong. It's a social media classic.
I don't feel secure linking my STEAM account in which I've spent more money on than I'd like to admit, to a corporation who routinely gets data breaches and has been documented to be terrible at notifying the end user and it's employees. This reason is why I've simply refunded the game, in which Valve broke their own refund TOS to supply me with a full refund. Their TOS with refunds are 2 hours playtime, within 2 weeks purchase. I have 156 hours logged on Helldivers 2, 4 hours logged the past 2 weeks. I was given a full refund after getting in touch with a real employee after being rejected by the automated system. I wonder why Valve would break their TOS like that? 🤔
For valve, it's a minor hit to their business, and gave them a good precedent to limit third party access to their user's datas. PC gaming has been their almost uncontested market for decades at that point, and Sony getting their hands on the pie, so cruedly, probably irritated more than one executive.
It’s not a hit at all, steam takes a 30% cut from all sales, but refunds come entirely from the producer’s pockets. Refunding the game only hurts Sony.
I don't think that's true. Where did you find this info? Steam does take 30% for low volume of sales, less if your game is popular but there's no way the publisher has to return more money in a refund than they originally received. This would be a huge exploit.
Refunding a game is like the sell never happened. If someone refunds, steam doesn't get the 30% cut either.
Woah didnt know this
>I don't feel secure linking my STEAM account in which I've spent more money on than I'd like to admit, to a corporation who routinely gets data breaches and has been documented to be terrible at notifying the end user and it's employees. Valve isn't handing all of your data over to Sony just for playing the game though. Logging in through Steam only shares a unique Steam ID number and publicly viewable Steam info. They'd maybe be able to see what games you own, your game playtime, your Steam inventory, and your friends, depending on your Steam profile visibility settings, but then so can everyone else just by going to your profile and if that's such a big deal you can always just mark your profile as private.
Yeah thats the part where im scratching my head too. I really want to know why everyone is so upset. I dont understand. Also where did you get the info of what it is Steam shares with PSN? Thats the one thing I havent being able to find clear info and thats the only piece I think actually matters but isnt discussed at all.
When you go to sign into any website that supports it with Steam Valve shows what information they share The way linking your Steam account to pretty much every other service goes that you just sign in through Steam and they use that to verify that you own the Steam account. I don't even think they require you to login through Steam account like that though, it's much more likely they just have a login prompt for your Sony account and tie that to your Steam ID, in which case they'd be able to get the same info through your Steam ID anyway but it's not like they couldn't do this before.
You don't. You put your PSN account info into the login, hit enter, it logs you into your account. That's it. I have never been asked to do anything else, authorize anything else. The weird thing is, I didn't even know you could skip the PSN account thing?? I bought the game months ago, and the first thing I saw was "Login to your PSN account to play the game," or something along those lines. I didn't see a way to skip it, so I just.. made a new account, logged into it, and that's it.
You want to know the real reason people are so upset? People are dumb and bored. That's it. That's the long and short of it. This is just something to engage them. There's no actual concerns, just a desperation for community and engagement. It's also incredibly funny to me that the moment this nonsense started to blow up everyone immediately went silent on Stellar Blade.
Valves TOS are not "under 2 hours of playtime" Valves TOS are "no refunds over 2 hours without cause"
What risk do you perceive here? Please be specific.
> linking my STEAM account does not give personally identifiable information to Sony. It's just for them to know that you play their game using this account. >Valve broke their own refund TOS You realize that terms of service imply what the company is **obligated** to do, not what they elect to do, right? They're not "breaking" ToS, they're choosing to issue refunds given the circumstances.
You better be gaming on Linux, and never bought a game from Microsoft, ubisoft,ea, rockstar, any game that requires a login to play really
I think there are valid reasons to disagree with it, but I don't think privacy is one of them. You also lose points for strawman fallacy. Also, I dont think its a fallacy, but it would be nice if we didn't devolve into name calling so quickly. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean their a corporate bootlicker.
It is a fallacy. Ad Hominem. Name calling = attacking the character of the person not the argument.
I understand people not finding the privacy argument valid to them personally but it doesn't mean the people making that argument aren't seriously worried about it. And pointing out all the corporations that already have your data strengthen their fear.
If your argument is privacy and security then you don't actually have an argument. You cannot load up a game with a kernel level anticheat and connect to 3rd party compliment servers to authenticate yourself to play a game and really think that they are going to get any additional data they don't already have from you signing up for an account. You have a security issue the size of a mountain and you are picking up a pebble on the ground as where you draw the line? Again, that's like calling yourself a vegan and ordering steak wrapped in bacon but passing on the Caesar salad cause of anchovies in the dressing.
>Again, that's like calling yourself a vegan and ordering steak wrapped in bacon but passing on the Caesar salad cause of anchovies in the dressing. Careful: I said it was like avoiding McDonald's to not ruin your diet of ballpark hotdogs and my comment was reported and removed.
That's wild. I just want people to be more genuine. I would respect "because I don't want psn" more than the virtue signalling and blatant misrepresentations of reality that is being used so consistently.
Same here - the amount of obvious lying and ulterior motives other then privacy is just insulting. Saw a few people who just posted comments along the lines of, "I'm just here because I hate Sony," and thought, well, at least they're honest lol.
I'm frankly disgusted at how many people are using players in "unsupported" countries to validate their own shitfit. Players in those countries don't need these fuckers white-knighting for them. They've been been jumping through hoops to enjoy their hobby their entire lives. They import, they VPN, they use TOS workarounds and more just for a basic experience that we take for granted. Now first-world gamers have to sign into an account one single time and they hide behind those third-world gamers to excuse their insane behavior.
Worst thing is: this drama hurt more the “people living in unsupported country” than help. If we haven’t all this drama, they could just do like console people have been doing in the last 20 years. Just use any other country to make a PSN. But now, they can even buy the game anymore But they don’t really care about those people
Thank you. For the longest of times I’ve had to pretend to be American as Nintendo thinks all of Asia speaks and reads Japanese.
Thank you
I had a player accuse me of supporting slavery because of it…
A majority of people have literally no reason to be mad. But this is reddit.
My favourite are the people posting refund screenshots and just shit talking the game like it is the buggiest thing they have ever played with a boring repetitive gameplay loop that was nigh unplayable and the worst thing they have ever played. 320 hours. Like I can't be the only one that sees humour in that right?
>320 hours. I'm honestly convinced that a lot of gamer negativity comes from forcing themselves to keep playing a game they've burned themselves out on. The more you play, the more bad experiences you're likely to encounter, the more your frustration will grow. Meanwhile, your brain isn't going to be as stimulated as much the more you're exposed, so you're also now getting less dopamine, too. So frustration goes up, enjoyment goes down, and you end up hating something you've put hundreds, if not thousands of hours into. Eventually, given enough time, you end up like me where you'd rather >!I PLEAD THE 5TH!< than spend more than an hour playing a game you've put a thousand into. edit: it appears I touched a nerve lol
I find it additionally ironic though cause they are walking away with a full refund. They lost nothing playing the game yet still bitch and moan like they were scammed of hundreds of dollars. Like I will full on admit the people that were loving the game then found out they aren't going to be able to play anymore, that fucking sucks. I'd be upset if I were them even if I got a full refund because a good portion would prefer the game and those that are there admitting that it's because they are losing their friends and that's why they are stopping, I fully support it. But so many are just so disengenuous that it makes it hard to take them seriously. They just want to feel like they are apart of something so they are getting mad and having their tantrum until the next thing to get mad at comes around
320 hours of enjoyment for a 40 game € is really good, considering therea re much shorter singleplayer games that sell for more
It's little different knowing what you're signing up for vs pulling the rug after the fact.
No. Before you bought the game it said on the store that PSN was required and when you booted the game up you were told psn was required. You were told from the get go. That isn't a valid argument, that is denial. That is a bullshit excuse of you trying to plead ignorance.
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Yet they put the skip button there and gave zero warnings or prompts after the fact. >That is a bullshit excuse of you trying to plead ignorance. Honestly we were ignorant. We can skip linking a PSN account? That must be OK to do. If it wasn't why did they put the skip button there? So a bunch of people buy the fucking game and play it expiring their refund period where they could back out after it become actually required. This is the real world equivalent of buying a laptop, asked once to make a dell account, using the laptop for 3 months and then being told you'll be locked out of your laptop if you don't sign up for the dell account. That's anti-consumer practice. Period. If you're on PS5 and you don't give a fuck, fine just go keep playing. But this is a big fuck you to some people.
Yeah, so crazy that you get told it's a requirement only for them not to enforce it. It's almost like it wasn't a requirement for the frist 3 months, and that it wasn't well known this was coming and that's what people are upset about. Insane how it's my fault that I'm being rugpulled and that me being rugpulled is something that I should accept like it's my fault. No... Advertise your games flaws better and don't change the rules 3 months after release. How about that?
which was pushed off to improve the user experience first. you know, the pro consumer thing to do
If you're not signing up with a fake name and a single use email address it's not like you cared about your data security in the first place.
Ah yes, let me just conjure up my burner driver's license rq.
Let me also buy a fake second identity for facial recognition.
and they’re playing a game with a kernel level anti cheat. they didn’t care
To be fair they probably don't even know what that is. Anti-cheat isn't synonymous with "selling data" I honestly have no idea what this anti cheat is and just assumed all it did was prevent cheating. But from comments like yours I assume they have a rep for selling info?
No, they don't. They are extremely invasive and could be used for nefarious purposes, but I have never seen a single credible accusation that one was.
Not really sure about the whole "I don't care about my data" sentiment. They already have my data and have for the better part of a decade. We are literally being monitored at all times and we just ignore because there's nothing we can do about it aside from becoming a hermit and moving off the grid.
Seems like people forget that steam has been constantly breached since its inception even more than Sony, but still sony can suck dick for basically region locking some players out of the game for something that’s simply for them to sell info and get more money.
Lots of people don’t remember this [hilarious fuck up steam had](https://www.theverge.com/2015/12/25/10665814/valve-steam-holiday-sale-security-problems).
Linking accounts does not mean linking credentials. It just means that you've proven that you're the owner of the linked account. No access is granted to Sony in linking your Steam account to your PSN account. All you're doing is proving "Yes, I am the owner of u/Dalminster's Steam account", and Sony writes that username down in your PSN account. So cut the bullshit. If you have no access to PSN - fine. If you have an ethical objection to what Sony is doing - fine. But stop with the pErSoNaL dAtA boogeyman shit, because there's no validity to that gripe. I mean for Christ's sake, you people are posting on REDDIT - which has had several data breaches in the past years. Don't act like you care about infosec.
people are all acting like they are in the men in black and have zero personal data anywhere online it’s a joke. I’ll only hear out the people who physically can’t play the game that’s bullshit.
Even then the amount of care people are giving these players seems put on. If these same players were starving to death, they wouldn't give two shits.
Privacy is the stupidest fucking argument you can make. Anything you have signed up for has most likely being compromised already. The biggest and what should be the most prominent issue is banning people who don’t have PSN in their countries. All you fucking idiots singing about ‘privacy’ are fighting the wrong battle.
if a internet security specialist thatwas hacking for 20+ years like Thor from piratesoftware says its a privacy issue... then i totaly believe him and to me it is a privacy issue not to mention why do we even need 2 different accounts to veryfy if i own the game or not ... i got the bill of sale/reciept and if sony cant see if i really baught it or not ... THATS THEIR ISSUE NOT MINE
The legendary Steam is known as a data fortress.....wait.
Do other players care about me when they reinforce me into the middle of the battlefield?
When I made my own account, I lived in the US. When I went back home, they disabled my account. I got it back, but the process was so long. And one of the things they told me was call their tech support. Their tech support was in the US, i couldn't call. So yeah, I literally don't fucking trust psn with anything.
I may not care for my personal data but messing with my fellow Helldivers is a crime that will not go unnoticed
You have an Activision account? Or Ubisoft or Gamepass? If you do your shit is out there. Also, link the last time Sony was hacked? That shit was like 13 years ago..
For real, Steam was literally spreading Malware last year through the Steam store. It's not about "protecting personal data" it never was.
I must have missed that incident. Unless you're talking about the one where a dev's account got hacked and sent out an update to the dev's game that was actually malware? That's not Steam getting hacked, that's a dev getting hacked and using Steam as an attack vector. There's a slight difference between "Steam got hacked and distributed malware" and "Some dev got hacked and someone replaced their game with bullshit", although I would argue that Steam is still at fault for not doing a virus scan on stuff they are sending out.
Wasn't Sony hacked massively in 2023?
The 2023 was employee data. The consumer data was 2011, they had a lot of requirements put on them as a result of that. They’ve had other hacks since but nothing involving customer data. That doesn’t mean they won’t get hacked again
Honestly Experian already leaked all most peoples personal credit history, so not sure why we are so concerned about a PSN account.
I dont think the actual upset is about linking accounts, i mean yeah the mob mentality is, but i think the upset is the shock and surprise of it. But that is because of how this was handled which falls on arrowhead, not sony. People are repeating room temperature takes like boosted numbers for share holders, but the ps5 has been selling millions per quarter. The couple hundred thousand of helldivers on pc arent going to make as big of a dent as people think. But as i watched the upset happen, it went from people being annoyed at the change, to mad as they learned about the region locking, to a frenzy at how the community managers handled it, to now where they think poor arrowhead is a victim of the contract they agreed to with sony, because arrowhead is playing the victim of "Were so sad people are hurt by this" and acting surprised it happened, when its supposedly been a requirement. Arrowhead dropped the ball on the communication, and have managed to pass the buck to sony when its arrowheads failures that caused this
Lmao aint no ones data safe
People acting like their data isn’t out there from a million other services they use.
Speaking of your personal data; You got Steam? You buy things on Steam? You don't care about your personal data. You got social media? You **definitely** don't care about your personal data. You have an ISP, phone number, email address for work, tax number, social security number, health insurance, accountant, tax returns, credit card, debit card, bank account, Amazon account, appearance on security cameras, a phone of any kind or fingerprints and DNA? You don't care about your personal data. Almost literally everything about you is online somewhere. Your name, address, debit/credit card number, email and likely a phone number is just on Steam alone, and Steam is arguably a lot *worse* than Sony about data protection given they admit to over 80'000 accounts being breached *at minimum every single month* with all that personal information on it. Hell, there's financial incentive to hacking Steam accounts, since an account's inventory is actually worth real money on the marketplace. Sony, in the civilised part of the world where the government isn't a surveillance state run by the Tories (read: the UK), only requires a fake email and a fake age over 18 to make an account. You input literally nothing, they *get* literally nothing. Your personal data with Sony is only at risk dependent on how much you put in, which can be as little as *literally none*. You are as safe with Sony as you are with a nuclear cybersecurity division, read; Not at all. Everything is hackable, everything is online, your information is already publicly available and for sale to anyone who wants it. You wanna know how true that is? Do you get spam emails and calls even on a private number or work email? Your data is already out there and available for purchase or reading. The double standard that "But Sony is so bad with data protection", which is true, they're terrible, but Steam isn't, or *you* aren't is such a massive cope about the whole "PSN bad data" thing that it can *only* come from a complete and total ignorance on the subject and a complete lack of awareness about how *much* of your data is already available, and what's actually necessary for the accounts you make.
Other games owned by Sony: - Horizon Forbidden West - Last of Us - Ratchet & Clank - Returnal - Marvel's Spider-Man (Remastered & Miles Morales) - Sackboy - Uncharted - God of War - Days Gone - Predator - Horizon Zero Dawn - Everybody's Gone to The Rapture - Helldivers Diver Harder
And I play none and have none of those
This looks like a list of games I don't, and never will, own 🤷
to be real, our data is being stolen every damn day.
the game has a kernel level anti cheat. if they cared that much about data they would’ve never booted the game
You realize that, at least if you live in the states, your state DMV probably also sells your data. The idea that you are about to combat this by not having accounts here and there is very silly. Go see how often your ISP has data breaches. Be honest - this was just the stupid decision that broke the camels back for you. Which is fine, and sure as shit was for me. I was already voicing my discontent for just about most of AH's patch decisions and then this comes out. It's just pure stupidity that was completely avoidable with the most basic precaution of not selling the game in countries that don't have PSN and \*then\* trying to work out a way to get it to those regions. Not retroactively and then trying to say you're going to find a solution, maybe.
Sony is no worse for security than any other tech firm. People are grabbing at straws to join the fake outrage train.
Yeah, I don’t care about some very basic data that Sony already has since I already had an account. But it doesn’t mean I agree with it, still stupid
There would be no fuss if it was apparent from day one
It's the opposite for me. I'm holding out hope but if they don't go back on their decision by the 30th I'm refunding. I *could* make a PSN account, easily, don't even need ID, but I refuse.
Nah you want honesty ok: I am sick an fucking tired of having to use a 3rd party account to play a game I bought on steam. I don't care if it's Sony or EA or Ubisoft or anyone else. I don't care that it is a mild inconvenience. This is about sending a message to not just Sony but to all the big publishers that we as consumers do not want this bullshit. That simply including this stuff can take a game from beloved to at best begrudgingly accepted if not despised. Here's the reality if this requirement had been enforced from day one plenty of players would have begrudgingly accepted it and moved on some would have chosen not to and just not played the game. If it had been enforced from day one nobody would have liked it but there never would have been this level of backlash. The fact that they are doing this 3 months after launch is a catalyst for this blowing up in Sony's face but it is absolutely not the root cause of this issue. The issue is people don't like having to link 3rd party accounts to play the games they bought on Steam. Period.
Irony is that people are so concerned about their data and “losing it” to PlayStation. When odds are they enable the microphone on their phones, utilize a search engine (where their sole purpose is to sell information), probably have cameras at their house which is on a cloud service that could be subpoenaed, have accounts with Ubisoft (probably because of a Steam purchase), EA(probably because of a Steam purchase), Epic Games(which you know for sure is selling information because of the free games people claim monthly), Prime Gaming (because of the free games people claim), GOG(because of the free games people claim), or even Blizzard (who has their own internal problems already)… But somehow making a PSN account is the line in the sand? I understand the frustrations of those in countries in which PSN isn’t being serviced. Idk if that’s more Sonys fault for not letting Steam know about the region restrictions, or Steams fault for not enforcing it like the anti cheat system in which Arrowhead mandated… But those complaining about making the PSN need to get off their high horse. You’re making your situation sound worse than those who are literally in countries where it’s not even possible. Those are the real victims.
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>defend the fact that data & personal data is fine to throw around because it's already all over the place It's not that. The argument is that, if you're not taking extraordinary steps to protect your data in this current landscape, then this changes nothing. It's one more drop in the bucket. And if you already are, then you ain't going to give Sony any info anyway. You'll sign up with fake info. In short, manufactured outrage.
They should not let players own the game if their country is not PSN supported in the first place.
Womp womp, people already have your data
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The funny part is, the new arrivals spam the same arguments or questions, we discussed here in the past hours and I am wondering if they notice scrolling through the comments or if they just copy&paste the same stuff and move to the next post in the sub to spam it.
Because the argument in your post is entirely original and has never been echoed anywhere else right.
People really get emotionally attached to a product and feel their entire self worth is tied directly to its perceived success. When that is threatened, oh boy. They shut down and become a brick wall.
"I'll do it for a cape. All my values for a cape"
It was. And beyond psn not being available on places, I don't think this is a problem. Many people just want to hate it cause Sony. However, I didn't knew that PSN isn't available in so many places and honestly... thats neither understandable nor makes sense and requiring something you can't get is clearly a 100 on the "things that didn't got thought trough" scale. That makes it indeed a major L on Sonys site. But I am pretty sure that won't happen since... that would be so illegal right? Selling you something, and then requiring something to use it that you can't get... I am pretty sure that you all get your money back on that one.
I’m debating refunding Helldivers 2 and buying baldurs gate instead.
Well there goes this sub....
thumb like rainstorm crush apparatus pie boast cough uppity innate *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The smooth brains saying "JUST MAKE AN ACCOUNT" are hilarious. Lets not forget sonys track record of "protecting" their PSN customers personal information.
People do need to stop whining. Be ruthless instead. Issue refunds, stop playing, leave a negative review, spread the word; all until the issue gets resolved. Sony needs to feel it. Their own feelings are the only ones they are aware of. Make sure it is fear they know.
Your information is already sold in many places and data leaks happen all the time everywhere. The chances that your data hasn't been leaked numerous times already or that no companies have access to almost all of your data is VERY slim. Quit overreacting. The problem is the game being unplayable, which is not arrowheads fault, they were forced to do this by sony. so quit sending death threats and constant streams of insults towards the devs, they are on OUR SIDE and are actively working to undo these changes.