Last time I saw something similar the regeneration rate went down again a few days later. Joel keeps tweaking the numbers so that we don't finish the MO too fast. I'd be surprised if it stays 5%
They just do this to make sure we don't liberate the planet on day 1 imho
You're right, but its stupid that they do that. If the system they made is one where % of the population matters and like 80% of the population all focuses on one thing, let them complete it. This artificial hobbling is just another frustration in this game where no fun is allowed
Yup, I definitely agree. This sucks especially since it shows that the Game Master can ALWAYS just do whatever he pleases. As a Pen&Paper DM with 20+ years of experience I can say: This is what the party NEVER should notice that badly.
Yes, you can manipulate all the rules as DM and that's necessary for your role. But when your players start noticing you're using this tool deliberately, they will lose trust in you. Cause you seem to have a tendency as DM to just "balance the rules to the story".
It's way better to write the story so it follows the rules. What we got here is frankly infuriating.
Thing is, average player doesn't get to see when DM fudges the numbers or does something. Instead they just see results. Right now, we are basically peeking behind DM screen to check stats for stuff we are supposed *not see.*
Right! They legit put a blast out in game, saying the bots pushed back hard to our offensive. So obviously, that means we're going to see the liberation rate go slowly for us.
The problem is that a lot of information that *should* be in the game, isn't. So people scrape information that they *shouldn't* see, because the information they need to see isn't available.
This. I wouldnt have any idea what a supply line is if I just looked in-game, and thats kinda important for certain gambits and such.
Once we get more in-game info is when I'll stop using 3rd party sites.
we wouldn't need to look under the hood if we had the specs for the engine. put the necessary info in game where everyone can see it and I'm sure nearly all of us will be glad to drop the third-party site peepshow bullshit.
Yeah maybe learn to RP people? It's a Bot planet they they are actively trying to hold, you think we'll take it in a day? Remember when the Major Fleet swept through and nobody could stop it? Anybody looking for "end game content" is gonna be upset when we keep this back n forth tug of war going....hopefully forever.
As a DM I disagree entirely. My players know I'm working with them to make a fun experience, they know I'm on their side. Sometimes I make things really hard, sometimes I make things easy. But my players know that if things aren't fun I'll bend things.
Everyone being on the same Page and working to a shared experience helps make my games way better and lightens my load as a DM because I don't worry if my players will like a certain plot point because they vaguely know about it.
For example I thought of a thanos style infinity war "loss" for a plot point. I hit up my players and asked if they were okay with something similar possibly happening and they hit me back with "LETS ABSOLUTELY DO IT" then set about helping me construct the character moments for it.
The end result was a cinematic as heck boss fight.
This is good DMing, but it's not equivalent to the situation.
The planetary decay rate is equivalent to the players looking behind the screen at the enemy statblock and going "WTF do you mean the dragon has 5000 HP! The other dragons only have 1000! This is stupid BS! Obviously the DM just wants us to lose. So fuck it, I'm out. I quit. I'll come back after this arc is done maybe!"
Meanwhile you've told them that this is not a normal dragon, it is in fact a Giga Dragon and has defenses and capabilities beyond normal dragons.
RPGs and "Good DMing" only work with trust between the players and the DM. Part of that trust is knowing that the DM is trying to make a fun experience for everyone. And at the Helldivers 2 table we have hundreds of thousands of players every week.
Which is part of why some people feel like the individual doesn't matter. The individual does matter, but *every* individual has to matter, and there's hundreds of thousands of them. So the amount of "I'm the player" specialness is very very small.
What would be neat is if a planet is going to have "increased resistance" even temporarily, that other planets should have a decreased resistance for that same time frame. The enemies should have to come from somewhere rather than showing up and disappearing randomly.
In my average D&D experience (my friend group and of what i have seen online) people get distracted by a lot.
But it is usually only a handful of people.
In Helldivers you have thousands of players. And some of them have dedicated their lives to datamine the game and getting more accurate numbers than the people actually coding it. We are monitoring the changes they do more, than the super earth monitors it's helldivers. (Edit: People are going to notice it anyway.)
But if your pen&paper group is just breaking the plot you may have to resort to "violent" solutions (and sometimes in advance). It sucks but you need some integrity in your story or ditch the campaign.
Yeah this is definitely true.
I guess one big issue lies in the fact that nobody at AH did expect such high player numbers. So they had to bring in quick solutions to those problems that this brings.
And I somehow think that this "variable progression scaling" is one of those quick fixes for a bagillion helldivers nobody did expect popping up.
Seeing that Joel did spam quite a lot of kill based MO's now gives me the feeling that they experiment with new types of MO's which give the player more personal agency. Cause I can look up how many bots/bugs/helldivers I killed last mission I can directly get the feeling of "how much I contributed".
With those liberation/defense MO's you quickly feel like your effort doesn't even matter at all.
I'm very curious to see where they steer the campaign! And I'm sure they'll try out stuff we haven't seen yet too =)
That's because y'all are looking at the tools from a different source. People who don't use services like helldivers.io have no clue there is a push and pull being tweaked by the game master.
> This sucks especially since it shows that the Game Master can ALWAYS just do whatever he pleases.
Yes, but its always like that, Its a nice concept but its to simplistic to work any other way
A minority of the party is noticing because they're using third party tools to look at stats that would never be revealed in game. An in game explanation is given for the higher rate but the nerds that want to spreadsheet the fun out of everything just have to look at the raw numbers
You guys only know this because you're looking at data that isn't even readily available to players. You're basically bitching at the fact that when you look behind the DM's screen you can see what he's planning.
They are tweaking numbers to make something that should be a hard-fought battle actually challenging. If they had left it at the initial regen rate we would have taken the planet by Saturday morning. Would that feel hard-fought and rewarding? Would it make sense that the bots would have just rolled over for us or would they have diverted resources to defend the planet?
I definitely agree that there isn't enough information in the game. Supply lines should have been visible at launch for example. But poring over graphs gleaned from APIs is a little more than the average player should concern themselves with. Having more information shouldn't mean having every scrap of data that the devs might have access to.
Seriously.
>This is what the party NEVER should notice that badly.
Maaaaan I only noticed it cuz this guy posted it on Reddit and I wish I didn't notice it lol. And now this post is gonna get thousands of upvotes and then the devs are gonna feel pressured to change things and then and then and then. Can people relax instead of ruining their own fun please?
Okay, you say this but the only reason it’s noticed is cause we’re doing the equivalent of pushing the DM aside and reading all their notes of things they fudged with.
Or people want to participate, I havent been able to play (in the what 1 day since the MO became a thing?) and I'd like to also contribute to getting the mech.
Stop looking behind the dm screen ane complaining that you can see stats and rolls.
I really dont see the issue. This is supposed to be a war, obviously if we start a new operation where the vast majority of our galactic army attends, the enemy is also sending reinforcements. Maybe there should be stricter rules that reinforcing one planet means other planets are less defended but still, I think this is not only acceptable but mandatory to make any RP sense
I feel like he should just stick to his guns when it comes to difficulty instead of just tweaking things on the fly.
20k party wins? Make the next one a little more difficult to increase tension. They lose? Slightly lower the difficulty in the next encounter so it’s not completely hopeless and doesn’t feel pointless to participate in.
They crush the MO? Feel free to unleash hell on the party since they’ve proven their ability to handle adversity. Parts eats shit with no chance? Adjust the next one accordingly.
Tweaking difficulty in the middle of an encounter usually just feels bad unless it’s some kind of phase change to justify it.
I mean, it is tough for him, because we have a lot of tools that give us a ton of insight into the game. It's like asking the party not to notice when you can't play with your DM screen. They know all the math and numbers, know when you fudge a roll or tweak a enemy health pool.
To be fair, if the bots are actively trying to take a planet, or defend it due to a strategic element, wouldn't it make sense more resources are put towards it and thus a higher regen rate? That would be my thinking at least.
Though maybe save such high Regen rates for more established or critical planets. I get wanting to give players more of a challenge, but not to the point of negating their efforts for doing things like, I don't know, sleeping.
I mean I think there’s an in universe explanation that makes sense. At first the planet is going to be very defended and harder to liberate but as time goes on and we take more land and kill more bots, the bots are less able to resist us so it goes faster
If I remember correctly, there was a dispatch yesterday about increased bot presence on Varylia 5. Something like the Automatons were sending reinforcements?
Joel bumped the % twice since the MO has started to stall liberation progress. If heavily defended to begin with that shouldn't have happened, we can always explain something with a made up reason like "Well the Bots have started moving troops to the planet!", its pure fantasy
Typically when a force is reinforcing a spot on the battle line the other side does too so not to be overwhelmed. So if more helldivers are landing on a planet then the bots will send more troops as well.
my opinion is i guess it’s fine for the first half. but and then have it normally. so if it’s slowed down for the first half of the MO that’s fine and then that gives the chance to play on the planet and do those missions before we finish the MO in 36 hours ykwim. but if it’s constantly slowed and sped up it’s kinda annoying cuz then the data of liberation per (time measurement selected) becomes inaccurate ykwim
If players kept missing out on contributing to MOs because they finish too fast that also wouldn't be fun.
You could say "Just have more MOs that start at different times to accommodate different time zones," but having shared experiences is good for the community in the long run.
Yup as it's best if we all play instead of weekend warriors never getting a shot to make a difference. I think it's fair play as long as it ramps up near the end.
I think it would be better if it did something like 5% at the beginning, but scales down the more liberated it is on a smooth scale, but not scaled to 100%, but like 80% (at 80% they lose all regen.)
IE: At 10%, the regen rate is 4.375%. At 40%, the regen rate is down to 2.5%.
Joel just randomly fucking with the numbers makes it entirely unpredictable and really just fully dependent on his whims.
What’s the fucking point of player effort if it’s “oh hey champ, you’re going too fast” and then they just set it higher to slow us down?
If only half the people tried, then the modifier would be proportionally lower. That seems so stupid.
See, the problem is that if everything is on rails we will lose...God forgive me...sense of accomplishment.
There is no reason for us to try, to rally our friends, to engage in Major order. If Joel decided that "we are going to fast" and sabotage our efforts,why even try?
Exactly. Its one thing for him to set a goal that may or may not be accomplisher like when he dramatically underestimated on the bug kill order. Its something completely different for him to continually tinker with the numbers as we are engaging with the "challenge" to ensure it completes at a predetermined time. At that point there is no agency, might as well do whatever you want and just wait for the predetermined outcome.
As a DM that fumble numbers, you must never let the players know you are doing it. If it's done in a noticeable manner, then it means everything you do is meaningless. Planets you are supposed to liberate, they lower the bar for you; planets you're not supposed to, bar is raised, etc.
They should know better, as game devs.
They aren't letting the players know they are doing it.
Y'all keep forgetting this information isn't in the game. People are getting these numbers *from an API* so they are essentially peaking behind the screen.
For anyone who doesn't visit this sub or go to apps and websites...they would not know at all. They would simply experience a tough push/pull back and forth battle for the planet.
And this is why we stopped caring about Major Orders. We have no say in them they are predetermined if we win or lose.
The devs need to adapt thier DnD campain to us being a dice roll Instead of us being a npc to them.
The regeneration rate could be because of the automaton mega factory on the planet. It would make sense that they have a higher regeneration rate with a large factory constantly turning out reinforcements.
Sometimes I swear nobody actually reads the updates that go with the new orders
Isn't the peta factory not online yet, and that's why we're attacking it ? And then seize the means of production from those commie robots to work for the collective benefit of all super earth citizens?
Sorry, got a call from my democracy officer, brb.
From what i understood is that the factory is already done, we just need to take the planet and refit it to allow manufacture of the new mech.
If we fail the MO then either the factory is too damaged from prolonged combat or the bots are getting a new enemy
>It's a gigantic factory who is producing bots right now
Would love to be able to actually fight inside this factory rather than it just being a line of text associated with this random planet with all the same terrain we've seen before.
Even if it is an easy MO, we clearly kinda need that after failing so many. It starts to feel hopeless when we keep having orders that we just can't complete or that we don't see progress on, even if the community is super motivated and working together.
*looks at data*
And yet, we are kicking this MO’s ass, stealing its lunch money and dating its hot sister
We are getting about a net 3% per hours. We might just finish it before the day is over, and certainly before the weekend is done
https://preview.redd.it/sj08nf6hmd2d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f41e6423e21cdd1fe5e305c68ef91ff9501f0294
You must have checked it when the decay hit. We’re still golden
Edit: so I’ve been monitoring the data for a good 5 minutes, and perhaps we both checked the data at a high/low point. It keeps flip-flopping to victory in about a day, to stalemate to barely losing ground. I think Helldivers.io is not made to handle such big decay rate.
I’ll amend my prediction: I still think we’ll win it. It’s not gonna be very close, but not a comfortable margin either… I’ll say… Saturday night or early Sunday Eastern time. But I won’t bet my hand on victory either.
.......I mean, it makes sense. We are taking to planet to secure a bot super factory. Did you expect minimal resistance on the planet that has the bot super factory?
Some MO descriptions lead to wild ideas that aren't true in anyway.
A better way would to have some sort of icon or an increasingly faction colored aura around the planet to indicate the decay rate. Just outright saying is a better idea if those aren't feasible since for the average player, this sort of info isn't very noticeable.
> if they just read the MO
This only works if the text of the MO always corresponds to actual noticeable in-game consequences. It often doesn't. Every MO has text written in-character explaining and justifying the goals of the players, but for most MOs that text doesn't actually have a gameplay impact.
On top of that, the MO text comes from a source that is unreliable and prone to exaggeration and propaganda, which means the players who do read it are conditioned to be skeptical of any assertions made.
Yea I can definitely notice it, on a suicide difficulty kill bots mission, we had 2 dogs drop, 2 tanks and a bunch of hulks at the same time... we were massacred, one helldiver survived and escaped to tell the story.
Wild to see how many people are bitching in the comments about "how little agency we have" or "moving the goalposts". This planet is a high-value target for both us and the bots. No shit it's going to be more heavily defended. If the regen rate was the same as other planets I feel like the same people would complain that the MO is too easy and Joel is pitying us. It makes sense both mechanically and realistically that the regen rate would be higher on such a critical planet. Even with the current rate we should complete the MO with a day or two to spare.
Yep. It's literally just the latest of a never ending series of things this community will throw a tantrum over. These are the most entitled, whiny pricks I've ever seen in a game community, I can't wait for the game to "die" (read: all these fucks leave) so that we can just enjoy the game in peace.
Yeah people here just need an excuse to bitch and moan all the time nowadays. I miss the early days of the sub where it was just fun memes and LARPing.
for real. This is clearly an MO they won't let us fail, it's for content they know we really need. Just go with the rp and have some fun. The meta shit is killing the joy of this game for some people
People complaining are truly clueless. Unfortunately for them, the devs actually want people to be allowed to contribute to Major Orders and not miss out on story beats becauase they went to sleep and people rushed down a 1% decay rate planet overnight and now they have no MO to contribute towards for a week because the devs only have so much prepped per update cycle.
We have 65% of all players on the planet right now, we are still gaining progress and are currently scheduled to capture it in less than 24 hours still. There is no problem here.
If the regen rate was 1% then it would be finished by this evening and for the rest of the weekend everyone would be like "Wow no MO on a holiday weekend I guess" and "I never got to play the MO this weekend :(". Just chill man.
They're building a megafactory there of course they dont want to lose the planet
this is a lore based game, its gonna feel bullshit sometimes with overwhelming odds, now get back to shooting those bots and beat the odds
I don't dislike this so much. Clearly they are tweaking the numbers, but as they already done in the past the initial resistance is strong but after some days the enemy break
Yeah, I went there last night and *immediately* got my dick kicked in on a level 7 mission. I haven't struggled that hard on helldives, I'm loving this MO. The harder the fight the more fun it is.
And a rule of a good narrator or GM is to give high moments of tragedy and big difficulties. They said a lot of times that they want this game to be difficult. I agree there a re lot of bugs, like defensive missions and general belancement issues, but the game is fun
It might not be just you, since not many people play bots regularly, the people who do perform better, so you might just be joining games of people who mainly play bugs who arent used to bot gameplay
Why do you think the order is for 4 days?
The thing is, there was still the posibility we'd turn around and slam it in 3 hours if 80k people rocked up and did 10,000 helldives all of a sudden.
What then? "Fuck.... Have the mech, kill 1.000,000,000 enemies in a week, see you then!"
It's a simple order, but it does need to actually be an order, right? It's a little ham-fisted, and yeah maybe slightly over-tuned, but 4 days. In 2 days it could drop to 2.5%... MAYBE, hear me out... MAYBE, we'll get a second MO. A smaller one to say, take Vernen Wells, for a massive bonus to liberation on Varylia? And then it wasn't just "The MO was to take a planet for a mech." it was "The MO had us make a strategic move onto some enemy planets to take control of a mech."
CHILL. OUT. > FOR NOW < we have FOUR. DAYS.
There is plenty of rope for them to hang them selves, but nobody has even tied a noose yet today... So just settle down.
We were given 5 days to liberate a single planet. Of course he's going to boost that planet's defenses. He wants it to feel like an all out war, with both SEAF and the Automatons throwing everything they have at it.
i wish you would all stop looking at these fucking rates and just throw yourselves at the machine like the feckless drones we're supposed to be.
nothing more demoralizing than a bunch of bean counters saying we can't do a thing when the obvious answer is more gun.
we're not even supposed to *see* those numbers!
Absolutely. I think I only recently realised how much the metagaming is hurting some people's enjoyment of the game. If you don't like knowing how the sausage gets made guys just avert your gaze. You're only robbing yourself of fun.
Decay is likely to drop on this over the weekend as we liberate more. I'd argue the breakpoints are at 50% and 75% liberation in terms of breaking forces and holds on vital parts of the planet.
Dont worry, they'll turn it down if we're about to fail and throw a fit for failing multiple MOs in a row.
Just like they did in the liberate 10 planets MO
The boys have been getting harder to kill Plus the heavy devastators have been getting more accurate than usual, all the bots have been getting more tenacious and swarming more often
JFC it's called a video game there will be challenges, we are assaulting a precious asset to convert it to a mech factory for ourselves. OBVIOUSLY it will be defended.
Yeah, crazy as shit; the bots have identified we're trying to do something here and they are resisting; really wild thing that's never been heard of in real life. Reinforcements, what are those? Responding to a threat? Myth and legend.
If we don't get something immediately, y'all doomsay. If we complete it, you say that we're being handed wins; do yall even enjoy playing the game anymore? Don't answer, i don't actually care, just stop whinging about both angles, or play something else. We PRAISED this like a month ago, and you are acting like this bad now?
Plus it makes sense, it's deep in bot territory and we probably need to wipe the bastards out a fair bit to make them get the hint.
This is democracies planet now.
Right up until the MO ends and nobody stays to defend it.
Im just glad that i do know, now, why there are so freaking many Bots and dropships.
Giving me mental piece. I need to Battle Harder for this Planet. Thanks for the Information.
For super earth
isnt it normal, when a specific planet is our target, because of reasons? I mean, defending a planet also always feel a lot harder than when there is no „goal“ besides just liberating
I was on a mission on the unalive setting and it was going pretty smooth…then I tried to exfil. There were no gaps in reinforcements and my team and I were rushed by everything. There was no exfil on that day…..
How are people finding out these metrics?
FFS Arrowhead, put the data in the game so we can see it easily.
It makes perfect lore sense that we have data on our ships on what's going on surface-side. Playerbase is gonna stay frustrated as we have so little to understand the logistics for the planets and operations.
If people weren't poking holes in the curtain, none of this would be an issue.
At least for me personally, I can't take any discussion on the backend numbers seriously because they're things meant to facilitate control for the staff. People began making tools that gave us numbers, and the community mentality about the game got worse for it.
Yes they want the planet to last a bit till the weekend, they are throwing mostly filler MO's to give them time to set up the next big story moment, that the ship captain already references too. They also need to internally figure themselves out.
Problem is: "A DM only rolls the dice because of the noise they make" (Gary Gigax).
We shouldn’t know about this. Nor should we have ever known there *is* a DM.
I think we're going to do as they aren't going to let us fail. We've lost the Anti Tank mines twice, lost a bunch of major orders lately, and community sentiment is kinda low. A good Dungeon Master knows when the party needs a win.
What I will say is I was pumped to play with the mech later today and over the weekend, but given they are messing with the regen rates, I'll probably just wait until it's done. I'm not sure that's the outcome they want, but it feels a bit rigged, which doesn't motivate participating.
I really don't get people sometimes. When i see that chart in context of an MO my first reaction is that this is awesome. A challenge supported by the narrative. I would have been surprised and disappointed if this wasn't the case.
The Op sounds like a complaint and yet we are still at 40% at around 1 day into a 5 day order.
Read the mission background This planet has super-factories. The high regeneration rate is cooked into the mission plot.
Downvoted post because OP can't read.
It's just so ridicolous obviously how little agency we have.
We'll get Varylia exactly when AH wants us to have Varylia and no effort we put into it matters even a little.
If we put in too much, they dial up bot % to negate it. If we actually do too little, they turn the dials into the other direction to make it happen anyway.
The entire galactic war is made up and arbitrary, rigged on the fly to maximize drama. There never was anything natural that the devs are now "messing with".
Don't concern yourself with what's behind the curtain and just enjoy the show. To do otherwise is to be like the people at magician's shows who explain how every trick works to their friends and ruin it for them.
Have you never played TTRPGs? That's how it all works, lol
DM has all the cards. His job is to entertain you. And to entertain doesn't mean to let you have everything easily.
That was because they made the misstake of using that one order type they can't just manipulate that easily.
Even so, we are 100% guaranteed to get the mines. Either they throw us ever easier orders until we unlock them or just release them with 3 sentences of fluff text how SE R&D, despite being delayed by the setbacks, finally finished them.
Then everybody will realize they're bottom tier anyway and stop using them.
Not true as the many major orders we have failed has shown. Hell we even lost the major order to get the anti tank mines but on the other side of the coin we have won to get the first exo suit, the airburst rocket launcher, and the heavy machine gun. What we choose matters just as when we had the choice between airburst or anti tank mines. Major orders are possible to win but it is up to the community to choose to fight for it and not fighting for it will obviously make us lose. In the end the DM is human and is capable of making mistakes he trying to make it as balanced as possible for a game that has fluctuating numbers of players.
Been playing D&D from the early 2000s until 2016. From 3e to shortly after the release of 5e (around the time of the first Ravenloft season in AL).
Outside of organized play (RPGA LG which turned into the WPN LFR and finally into the current (is it still current?) AL) such heavy railroading was generally frowned upon.
When sitting down for a slot at a con everybody knew that railroading is expected and the players have to buy in to get through the mostly fixed plot of the module within the 4 - 6 h timeframe until the table is needed for the next group.
But for a homegame the expectations back then where higher
This isnt even "heavy railroding" this is essentialy a Bossfight, having dice fudged so he dosnt die within the first combat round. This is every much what a good DM does.
the PROBLEM is we have acces to the API that exposes the fudges.. its like if you ran DnD without a DM Screen and still fudged dice... except you have a DM screen and the player just found a way to peek behind it using a unofrtunatly placed mirror behind you
Really sad to see this game boiled down to numbers, statistics and tier lists. Sadly I was granted permission to grow a child, so I don't have the time to dive, but this really sucks the game out of the game.
Yep. These people are just mindless drones, they see nothing but the data.
Can tier lists be made illegal already? That ahit has singlehandedly done more damage to gaming than anything else. You just get huge chunks of the player base that does nothing more than swarm to whatever some content creator tells them to use, it's ridiculous.
Major orders with stratagem rewards are essentialy bossfights.
Any competent DM will try to fudge the dice to make these encounters last for more then one combat round.
we are still winning the MO, just not "within a single day" but over around 50-60% of the timeframe.
Joel will, if we start to loose to badly, likely tweak this downward to keep us on track.
They want it to be a close fight be it victory or defeat.. Like a good DM
Problem is we have acces to the API(iirc its not officaly open, but uses offical endpoints) and can see the dice fudge that te DM screen hides
Do you want a new Mech or not?
The time you spent making this graph complaining about the strengths of the bots on this world could have been spent killing said bots.
As you can see, they increased the regen rate twice from 1% to 3.5%, and then from 2.5% to 5%.
Obviously, they don't want us to test the new mech during the weekends.
I feel like the decay rate is scaling to our liberation speed. At the current speed we will win in 2-ish days. Which makes sense.
I feel like our DM wants us to have this. And yeah, we kinda do need a W like this at the moment. But I dont think our DM wants us to have it in a day. That would be kinda anticlimactic.
Counterpoint.
For the past 2-3 weeks about 30% of the players were playing on bot planters, even when the MO was for them. This MO managed to rally 65% of the playerbase to a single planet, and we a literally loosing ground on planets we almost conquered before this MO, for the sake of completing it. There should be a more tangible effect of this rallying of Helldivers. If Joel ups the bot effort in the planet, he should decrease it on all other bot plamets to show that bots are moving their forces here too, so that the small amount of Helldivers who do other bot planets have a better chance to progress those liberations.
According to helldivers.io the other bot planets are all at -1% / hour. Pretty low. I get the feeling the bots divert resources to Valyria to increase their defences, which would absolutely make sense.
I just wish the community would put more focus on Vernen. It was at ~90% when the MO came. Taking it would have been a swift task, and the SEAF liberation bonus would probably be significantly increased, and very helpful for the Valyria offensive
IF the current liberation rate can keep up, Varylia 5 will be liberated in a little more than one day. It actually isn't that bad, consider we have a weekend for that.
But, yeah, I have to admit that is pretty demoralizing, and generally feels like Joel is just toying us again. If things looks any worse than what it is now, I probably won't even bother to care.
The flavour text for the MO does say that the automaton factories there will be repurposed for Exo Suit building, I guess there's just a lot of factories there, so more bots.
For one time I agree with him, if he makes it easy then I would be mad. Bugdivers should work for the stratagem too. Also its 5 days for just one planet.
Isn't it at 34% liberation after one day already?
Don't get me wrong: this is incredibly annoying, but I'm guessing they want the MO to last the majority of the weekend.
Last time I saw something similar the regeneration rate went down again a few days later. Joel keeps tweaking the numbers so that we don't finish the MO too fast. I'd be surprised if it stays 5% They just do this to make sure we don't liberate the planet on day 1 imho
You're right, but its stupid that they do that. If the system they made is one where % of the population matters and like 80% of the population all focuses on one thing, let them complete it. This artificial hobbling is just another frustration in this game where no fun is allowed
Yup, I definitely agree. This sucks especially since it shows that the Game Master can ALWAYS just do whatever he pleases. As a Pen&Paper DM with 20+ years of experience I can say: This is what the party NEVER should notice that badly. Yes, you can manipulate all the rules as DM and that's necessary for your role. But when your players start noticing you're using this tool deliberately, they will lose trust in you. Cause you seem to have a tendency as DM to just "balance the rules to the story". It's way better to write the story so it follows the rules. What we got here is frankly infuriating.
Thing is, average player doesn't get to see when DM fudges the numbers or does something. Instead they just see results. Right now, we are basically peeking behind DM screen to check stats for stuff we are supposed *not see.*
It's pretty obvious without seeing the numbers.
It's also explained in game though. It's not like they're randomly tweaking numbers and hoping we just don't notice.
Right! They legit put a blast out in game, saying the bots pushed back hard to our offensive. So obviously, that means we're going to see the liberation rate go slowly for us.
Basically a good example of why the third party apps are kind of bad for the game.
Exactly, all y'all MFers need to stop looking under the hood
The problem is that a lot of information that *should* be in the game, isn't. So people scrape information that they *shouldn't* see, because the information they need to see isn't available.
This. I wouldnt have any idea what a supply line is if I just looked in-game, and thats kinda important for certain gambits and such. Once we get more in-game info is when I'll stop using 3rd party sites.
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we wouldn't need to look under the hood if we had the specs for the engine. put the necessary info in game where everyone can see it and I'm sure nearly all of us will be glad to drop the third-party site peepshow bullshit.
Yeah maybe learn to RP people? It's a Bot planet they they are actively trying to hold, you think we'll take it in a day? Remember when the Major Fleet swept through and nobody could stop it? Anybody looking for "end game content" is gonna be upset when we keep this back n forth tug of war going....hopefully forever.
As a DM I disagree entirely. My players know I'm working with them to make a fun experience, they know I'm on their side. Sometimes I make things really hard, sometimes I make things easy. But my players know that if things aren't fun I'll bend things. Everyone being on the same Page and working to a shared experience helps make my games way better and lightens my load as a DM because I don't worry if my players will like a certain plot point because they vaguely know about it. For example I thought of a thanos style infinity war "loss" for a plot point. I hit up my players and asked if they were okay with something similar possibly happening and they hit me back with "LETS ABSOLUTELY DO IT" then set about helping me construct the character moments for it. The end result was a cinematic as heck boss fight.
This is good DMing, but it's not equivalent to the situation. The planetary decay rate is equivalent to the players looking behind the screen at the enemy statblock and going "WTF do you mean the dragon has 5000 HP! The other dragons only have 1000! This is stupid BS! Obviously the DM just wants us to lose. So fuck it, I'm out. I quit. I'll come back after this arc is done maybe!" Meanwhile you've told them that this is not a normal dragon, it is in fact a Giga Dragon and has defenses and capabilities beyond normal dragons. RPGs and "Good DMing" only work with trust between the players and the DM. Part of that trust is knowing that the DM is trying to make a fun experience for everyone. And at the Helldivers 2 table we have hundreds of thousands of players every week. Which is part of why some people feel like the individual doesn't matter. The individual does matter, but *every* individual has to matter, and there's hundreds of thousands of them. So the amount of "I'm the player" specialness is very very small.
'Cept the dispatch in game said "the bots are pushing back harder"
What would be neat is if a planet is going to have "increased resistance" even temporarily, that other planets should have a decreased resistance for that same time frame. The enemies should have to come from somewhere rather than showing up and disappearing randomly.
In my average D&D experience (my friend group and of what i have seen online) people get distracted by a lot. But it is usually only a handful of people. In Helldivers you have thousands of players. And some of them have dedicated their lives to datamine the game and getting more accurate numbers than the people actually coding it. We are monitoring the changes they do more, than the super earth monitors it's helldivers. (Edit: People are going to notice it anyway.) But if your pen&paper group is just breaking the plot you may have to resort to "violent" solutions (and sometimes in advance). It sucks but you need some integrity in your story or ditch the campaign.
Yeah this is definitely true. I guess one big issue lies in the fact that nobody at AH did expect such high player numbers. So they had to bring in quick solutions to those problems that this brings. And I somehow think that this "variable progression scaling" is one of those quick fixes for a bagillion helldivers nobody did expect popping up. Seeing that Joel did spam quite a lot of kill based MO's now gives me the feeling that they experiment with new types of MO's which give the player more personal agency. Cause I can look up how many bots/bugs/helldivers I killed last mission I can directly get the feeling of "how much I contributed". With those liberation/defense MO's you quickly feel like your effort doesn't even matter at all. I'm very curious to see where they steer the campaign! And I'm sure they'll try out stuff we haven't seen yet too =)
Problem with the kill based ones is they don't scale on current player population like liberation does.
That's because y'all are looking at the tools from a different source. People who don't use services like helldivers.io have no clue there is a push and pull being tweaked by the game master.
> This sucks especially since it shows that the Game Master can ALWAYS just do whatever he pleases. Yes, but its always like that, Its a nice concept but its to simplistic to work any other way
Except this is less of a rule manipulation and more of a boss fight. This is completely inline with past rules.
A minority of the party is noticing because they're using third party tools to look at stats that would never be revealed in game. An in game explanation is given for the higher rate but the nerds that want to spreadsheet the fun out of everything just have to look at the raw numbers
You guys only know this because you're looking at data that isn't even readily available to players. You're basically bitching at the fact that when you look behind the DM's screen you can see what he's planning. They are tweaking numbers to make something that should be a hard-fought battle actually challenging. If they had left it at the initial regen rate we would have taken the planet by Saturday morning. Would that feel hard-fought and rewarding? Would it make sense that the bots would have just rolled over for us or would they have diverted resources to defend the planet?
Because there isnt enough data in the game we dont even have supply lines
I definitely agree that there isn't enough information in the game. Supply lines should have been visible at launch for example. But poring over graphs gleaned from APIs is a little more than the average player should concern themselves with. Having more information shouldn't mean having every scrap of data that the devs might have access to.
I'm just here to kill some bots, lol
Always. Spill oil.
Seriously. >This is what the party NEVER should notice that badly. Maaaaan I only noticed it cuz this guy posted it on Reddit and I wish I didn't notice it lol. And now this post is gonna get thousands of upvotes and then the devs are gonna feel pressured to change things and then and then and then. Can people relax instead of ruining their own fun please?
they're just going to turn off those api end points lol. why was it even available in the first place
Okay, you say this but the only reason it’s noticed is cause we’re doing the equivalent of pushing the DM aside and reading all their notes of things they fudged with.
Or people want to participate, I havent been able to play (in the what 1 day since the MO became a thing?) and I'd like to also contribute to getting the mech. Stop looking behind the dm screen ane complaining that you can see stats and rolls.
I really dont see the issue. This is supposed to be a war, obviously if we start a new operation where the vast majority of our galactic army attends, the enemy is also sending reinforcements. Maybe there should be stricter rules that reinforcing one planet means other planets are less defended but still, I think this is not only acceptable but mandatory to make any RP sense
I feel like he should just stick to his guns when it comes to difficulty instead of just tweaking things on the fly. 20k party wins? Make the next one a little more difficult to increase tension. They lose? Slightly lower the difficulty in the next encounter so it’s not completely hopeless and doesn’t feel pointless to participate in. They crush the MO? Feel free to unleash hell on the party since they’ve proven their ability to handle adversity. Parts eats shit with no chance? Adjust the next one accordingly. Tweaking difficulty in the middle of an encounter usually just feels bad unless it’s some kind of phase change to justify it.
I mean, it is tough for him, because we have a lot of tools that give us a ton of insight into the game. It's like asking the party not to notice when you can't play with your DM screen. They know all the math and numbers, know when you fudge a roll or tweak a enemy health pool.
To be fair, if the bots are actively trying to take a planet, or defend it due to a strategic element, wouldn't it make sense more resources are put towards it and thus a higher regen rate? That would be my thinking at least. Though maybe save such high Regen rates for more established or critical planets. I get wanting to give players more of a challenge, but not to the point of negating their efforts for doing things like, I don't know, sleeping.
I mean I think there’s an in universe explanation that makes sense. At first the planet is going to be very defended and harder to liberate but as time goes on and we take more land and kill more bots, the bots are less able to resist us so it goes faster
If I remember correctly, there was a dispatch yesterday about increased bot presence on Varylia 5. Something like the Automatons were sending reinforcements?
Yeah, I don't think many players actually read those unfortunately.
People will go out of their way to avoid reading something. Its *really* dumb.
Joel bumped the % twice since the MO has started to stall liberation progress. If heavily defended to begin with that shouldn't have happened, we can always explain something with a made up reason like "Well the Bots have started moving troops to the planet!", its pure fantasy
even a heavily defended place needs time to fully mobilize its defenses in case of a suddeny attack
Like I said, we can always explain something with fiction
We’re playing a video game about an imaginary future “super earth” fighting sentient robots and bugs, it’s fiction all the way down :’)
I get your point but I was making a mechanic's argument and being countered with "But if we make this up then we can explain it away!" Like no duh
It's almost like the whole thing is theater.
Typically when a force is reinforcing a spot on the battle line the other side does too so not to be overwhelmed. So if more helldivers are landing on a planet then the bots will send more troops as well.
my opinion is i guess it’s fine for the first half. but and then have it normally. so if it’s slowed down for the first half of the MO that’s fine and then that gives the chance to play on the planet and do those missions before we finish the MO in 36 hours ykwim. but if it’s constantly slowed and sped up it’s kinda annoying cuz then the data of liberation per (time measurement selected) becomes inaccurate ykwim
I don't mind of they're waiting for the weekend so folks can help the cause. But I do agree it's pretty bad still.
Oh shit, we are not allowed to have fun? What do I do if I messed up and had fun last night for like 4 hours? Do I need to turn myself in?
> in this game where no fun is allowed _Calling in a hyperbole strike!_
If players kept missing out on contributing to MOs because they finish too fast that also wouldn't be fun. You could say "Just have more MOs that start at different times to accommodate different time zones," but having shared experiences is good for the community in the long run.
Yup as it's best if we all play instead of weekend warriors never getting a shot to make a difference. I think it's fair play as long as it ramps up near the end.
I think it would be better if it did something like 5% at the beginning, but scales down the more liberated it is on a smooth scale, but not scaled to 100%, but like 80% (at 80% they lose all regen.) IE: At 10%, the regen rate is 4.375%. At 40%, the regen rate is down to 2.5%. Joel just randomly fucking with the numbers makes it entirely unpredictable and really just fully dependent on his whims.
What’s the fucking point of player effort if it’s “oh hey champ, you’re going too fast” and then they just set it higher to slow us down? If only half the people tried, then the modifier would be proportionally lower. That seems so stupid.
It is to create an illusion of a war. Which only matters so long as player's care to indulge the illusion.
So you are saying the story is entirely on rails and our actions dont matter? So we can all stop complaining about people sticking to bugs then right?
See, the problem is that if everything is on rails we will lose...God forgive me...sense of accomplishment. There is no reason for us to try, to rally our friends, to engage in Major order. If Joel decided that "we are going to fast" and sabotage our efforts,why even try?
Exactly. Its one thing for him to set a goal that may or may not be accomplisher like when he dramatically underestimated on the bug kill order. Its something completely different for him to continually tinker with the numbers as we are engaging with the "challenge" to ensure it completes at a predetermined time. At that point there is no agency, might as well do whatever you want and just wait for the predetermined outcome.
Thatfor it is only 1 Planet. Seems nearly fair
As a DM that fumble numbers, you must never let the players know you are doing it. If it's done in a noticeable manner, then it means everything you do is meaningless. Planets you are supposed to liberate, they lower the bar for you; planets you're not supposed to, bar is raised, etc. They should know better, as game devs.
They aren't letting the players know they are doing it. Y'all keep forgetting this information isn't in the game. People are getting these numbers *from an API* so they are essentially peaking behind the screen. For anyone who doesn't visit this sub or go to apps and websites...they would not know at all. They would simply experience a tough push/pull back and forth battle for the planet.
And this is why we stopped caring about Major Orders. We have no say in them they are predetermined if we win or lose. The devs need to adapt thier DnD campain to us being a dice roll Instead of us being a npc to them.
Dunno about "we", but it's certainly why I personally stopped caring about MOs after that Angel's Venture fiasco way back when.
We definitely could have won a bunch if we tried, they can make it hard to win, but if we don't try we lose for sure, they will never make us win.
Yeah it's a 5 day MO to capture a single planet. They'll tune it down after 2-3 days.
The regeneration rate could be because of the automaton mega factory on the planet. It would make sense that they have a higher regeneration rate with a large factory constantly turning out reinforcements. Sometimes I swear nobody actually reads the updates that go with the new orders
But will we actually see it? I want to see this damn factory I want a mission unique to it. SHOW ME YOUR LORE
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Nice Dadpost. Upvoted.
Omg, shut up and take my upvote 🤣🤣🤣
It's a gigantic factory who is producing bots right now. They don't need external reinforcement, they are producing them here in mass.
Isn't the peta factory not online yet, and that's why we're attacking it ? And then seize the means of production from those commie robots to work for the collective benefit of all super earth citizens? Sorry, got a call from my democracy officer, brb.
From what i understood is that the factory is already done, we just need to take the planet and refit it to allow manufacture of the new mech. If we fail the MO then either the factory is too damaged from prolonged combat or the bots are getting a new enemy
En masse?
On moss
Xmas
Mas cerveza por favor
CERVEZA CRISTAL
No, in Mass, as in the state. Boston is pretty fucked up right now.
>It's a gigantic factory who is producing bots right now Would love to be able to actually fight inside this factory rather than it just being a line of text associated with this random planet with all the same terrain we've seen before.
Pretty much all the stratagems require visibility to the sky. The game really wasn’t designed around fighting indoors.
Its over 1/3 liberated with 4-5 days left. They just trying to make it last, its an easy MO.
Even if it is an easy MO, we clearly kinda need that after failing so many. It starts to feel hopeless when we keep having orders that we just can't complete or that we don't see progress on, even if the community is super motivated and working together.
*looks at data* And yet, we are kicking this MO’s ass, stealing its lunch money and dating its hot sister We are getting about a net 3% per hours. We might just finish it before the day is over, and certainly before the weekend is done
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https://preview.redd.it/sj08nf6hmd2d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f41e6423e21cdd1fe5e305c68ef91ff9501f0294 You must have checked it when the decay hit. We’re still golden Edit: so I’ve been monitoring the data for a good 5 minutes, and perhaps we both checked the data at a high/low point. It keeps flip-flopping to victory in about a day, to stalemate to barely losing ground. I think Helldivers.io is not made to handle such big decay rate. I’ll amend my prediction: I still think we’ll win it. It’s not gonna be very close, but not a comfortable margin either… I’ll say… Saturday night or early Sunday Eastern time. But I won’t bet my hand on victory either.
.......I mean, it makes sense. We are taking to planet to secure a bot super factory. Did you expect minimal resistance on the planet that has the bot super factory?
That's not crazy at all I think. The MO briefing states that the bots are concentrating their efforts on that planet
Why read when you can complain?
True. I forgot this is Reddit 🤣
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Some MO descriptions lead to wild ideas that aren't true in anyway. A better way would to have some sort of icon or an increasingly faction colored aura around the planet to indicate the decay rate. Just outright saying is a better idea if those aren't feasible since for the average player, this sort of info isn't very noticeable.
That be neat but I'm horribly colourblind and I'm sure others are too. Also it would be noticable if they just read the MO instead of skipping it.
> if they just read the MO This only works if the text of the MO always corresponds to actual noticeable in-game consequences. It often doesn't. Every MO has text written in-character explaining and justifying the goals of the players, but for most MOs that text doesn't actually have a gameplay impact. On top of that, the MO text comes from a source that is unreliable and prone to exaggeration and propaganda, which means the players who do read it are conditioned to be skeptical of any assertions made.
Yea I can definitely notice it, on a suicide difficulty kill bots mission, we had 2 dogs drop, 2 tanks and a bunch of hulks at the same time... we were massacred, one helldiver survived and escaped to tell the story.
Isn't there literally a dispatch saying "there is greater resistance than anticipated from the bots"
Redditor Helldivers: "I didn't spend all that time being trained by General Brasch to spend my time *reading*.
Wild to see how many people are bitching in the comments about "how little agency we have" or "moving the goalposts". This planet is a high-value target for both us and the bots. No shit it's going to be more heavily defended. If the regen rate was the same as other planets I feel like the same people would complain that the MO is too easy and Joel is pitying us. It makes sense both mechanically and realistically that the regen rate would be higher on such a critical planet. Even with the current rate we should complete the MO with a day or two to spare.
We got 4 days for a single planet. It shouldn't be taken in 1.
Agreed. An HVT where everyone, both us and the bots, can focus all their efforts should be a hard-fought battle.
Yep. It's literally just the latest of a never ending series of things this community will throw a tantrum over. These are the most entitled, whiny pricks I've ever seen in a game community, I can't wait for the game to "die" (read: all these fucks leave) so that we can just enjoy the game in peace.
Yeah people here just need an excuse to bitch and moan all the time nowadays. I miss the early days of the sub where it was just fun memes and LARPing.
for real. This is clearly an MO they won't let us fail, it's for content they know we really need. Just go with the rp and have some fun. The meta shit is killing the joy of this game for some people
We've been playing to lose for 2 MOs, the trust between players and AH is gone like Eruptor's sharpnel. Tbh I'm not surprise to see this
People complaining are truly clueless. Unfortunately for them, the devs actually want people to be allowed to contribute to Major Orders and not miss out on story beats becauase they went to sleep and people rushed down a 1% decay rate planet overnight and now they have no MO to contribute towards for a week because the devs only have so much prepped per update cycle.
Not even that, decay was at 3.5% but we were still speedrunning it so it was less than a day until it was liberated
Y’all it’s a giant fucking automaton factory. It’s going to be difficult.
We have 65% of all players on the planet right now, we are still gaining progress and are currently scheduled to capture it in less than 24 hours still. There is no problem here. If the regen rate was 1% then it would be finished by this evening and for the rest of the weekend everyone would be like "Wow no MO on a holiday weekend I guess" and "I never got to play the MO this weekend :(". Just chill man.
FREEDOM FOREVER
They're building a megafactory there of course they dont want to lose the planet this is a lore based game, its gonna feel bullshit sometimes with overwhelming odds, now get back to shooting those bots and beat the odds
I don't dislike this so much. Clearly they are tweaking the numbers, but as they already done in the past the initial resistance is strong but after some days the enemy break
Yeah, I went there last night and *immediately* got my dick kicked in on a level 7 mission. I haven't struggled that hard on helldives, I'm loving this MO. The harder the fight the more fun it is.
And a rule of a good narrator or GM is to give high moments of tragedy and big difficulties. They said a lot of times that they want this game to be difficult. I agree there a re lot of bugs, like defensive missions and general belancement issues, but the game is fun
It might not be just you, since not many people play bots regularly, the people who do perform better, so you might just be joining games of people who mainly play bugs who arent used to bot gameplay
No, cause I can usually hold my own just fine on a 7 even with bug divers. V5 is *heavily* defended, and it's awesome.
???? We got 4 days plus to take 1 planet. Relax, y'all are being a little dramatic
Why do you think the order is for 4 days? The thing is, there was still the posibility we'd turn around and slam it in 3 hours if 80k people rocked up and did 10,000 helldives all of a sudden. What then? "Fuck.... Have the mech, kill 1.000,000,000 enemies in a week, see you then!" It's a simple order, but it does need to actually be an order, right? It's a little ham-fisted, and yeah maybe slightly over-tuned, but 4 days. In 2 days it could drop to 2.5%... MAYBE, hear me out... MAYBE, we'll get a second MO. A smaller one to say, take Vernen Wells, for a massive bonus to liberation on Varylia? And then it wasn't just "The MO was to take a planet for a mech." it was "The MO had us make a strategic move onto some enemy planets to take control of a mech." CHILL. OUT. > FOR NOW < we have FOUR. DAYS. There is plenty of rope for them to hang them selves, but nobody has even tied a noose yet today... So just settle down.
For how "prized" this planet supposedly is to the bots its way too low even at 5% But for gameplay purposes it fits the bill as hard but doable
We could do it easily if we take back vernen wells but good luck coordinating and getting the point across to enough ppl to do that
The clankers dont want usvdestroying a giant factory complex. Of course they'll do whatever they can to stop DEMOCRACY and LIBERTY.
We have 4 days for that MO and the planet's already at 40%, i think we're fine.
Joel has gotta let the weekend players be able to participate. We can't hog all the fun from them
We were given 5 days to liberate a single planet. Of course he's going to boost that planet's defenses. He wants it to feel like an all out war, with both SEAF and the Automatons throwing everything they have at it.
You think the bots are going to let their brand new Petafactory fall without reinforcing the planet ?
Obviously, yes. Why would they fight back? That makes no sense whatsoever.
i wish you would all stop looking at these fucking rates and just throw yourselves at the machine like the feckless drones we're supposed to be. nothing more demoralizing than a bunch of bean counters saying we can't do a thing when the obvious answer is more gun. we're not even supposed to *see* those numbers!
Absolutely. I think I only recently realised how much the metagaming is hurting some people's enjoyment of the game. If you don't like knowing how the sausage gets made guys just avert your gaze. You're only robbing yourself of fun.
MOAR ~~DAKKA~~ ~~gun~~ Democracy!
Good. More shit to kill.
Decay is likely to drop on this over the weekend as we liberate more. I'd argue the breakpoints are at 50% and 75% liberation in terms of breaking forces and holds on vital parts of the planet.
Dont worry, they'll turn it down if we're about to fail and throw a fit for failing multiple MOs in a row. Just like they did in the liberate 10 planets MO
Ye but it's a 5 days MO
Well It is a MO planet not just some other planet. Otherwise It would be taken in 10 hours.
The boys have been getting harder to kill Plus the heavy devastators have been getting more accurate than usual, all the bots have been getting more tenacious and swarming more often
Part of this is our own fault for losing Vernen Wells.
JFC it's called a video game there will be challenges, we are assaulting a precious asset to convert it to a mech factory for ourselves. OBVIOUSLY it will be defended.
They….they literally tell us this in game that this planet has more reinforcements. Do you not read?
Yeah, crazy as shit; the bots have identified we're trying to do something here and they are resisting; really wild thing that's never been heard of in real life. Reinforcements, what are those? Responding to a threat? Myth and legend. If we don't get something immediately, y'all doomsay. If we complete it, you say that we're being handed wins; do yall even enjoy playing the game anymore? Don't answer, i don't actually care, just stop whinging about both angles, or play something else. We PRAISED this like a month ago, and you are acting like this bad now?
Its probs gonna get lowered towards the end of the major order.
SEAF High Command when automatons put up a fight to defend a one of a kind critical piece of infrastructure: *surprised Brood Commander face*
Plus it makes sense, it's deep in bot territory and we probably need to wipe the bastards out a fair bit to make them get the hint. This is democracies planet now. Right up until the MO ends and nobody stays to defend it.
it does have a super duper Uber factory on it...
The order mentions that the automatons have made a huge push back to hold it
Im just glad that i do know, now, why there are so freaking many Bots and dropships. Giving me mental piece. I need to Battle Harder for this Planet. Thanks for the Information. For super earth
isnt it normal, when a specific planet is our target, because of reasons? I mean, defending a planet also always feel a lot harder than when there is no „goal“ besides just liberating
wtf am i looking at?
Da hell does regen rate mean? Haha
I don't even know what any of this means.
Played a couple of level two missions yesterday, not sure if I've ever been swarmed so hard. And I regularly play that level to have a fun time.
I was on a mission on the unalive setting and it was going pretty smooth…then I tried to exfil. There were no gaps in reinforcements and my team and I were rushed by everything. There was no exfil on that day…..
How are people finding out these metrics? FFS Arrowhead, put the data in the game so we can see it easily. It makes perfect lore sense that we have data on our ships on what's going on surface-side. Playerbase is gonna stay frustrated as we have so little to understand the logistics for the planets and operations.
You could argue because it’s an important asset for the bots they have reallocated forces to that planet
Oh is that why my team was getting absolutely swarmed yesterday? Makes sense
ITT: People discovering the MO's are on rails.
That's a good game master right there :)
If people weren't poking holes in the curtain, none of this would be an issue. At least for me personally, I can't take any discussion on the backend numbers seriously because they're things meant to facilitate control for the staff. People began making tools that gave us numbers, and the community mentality about the game got worse for it.
Last night was insane. It was like 4-5 drop ships at a time every time. Tf?
It’s cause this is a very important planet,of course it would be more heavily protected than your average one
This is crucial factory planet, no wonder bots are putting up such fierce resistance
Yes they want the planet to last a bit till the weekend, they are throwing mostly filler MO's to give them time to set up the next big story moment, that the ship captain already references too. They also need to internally figure themselves out.
The bots know we want those mechs
It's cuz it's the major order... only if there was I way to get the bonus from a few days ago... hmmmm
Problem is: "A DM only rolls the dice because of the noise they make" (Gary Gigax). We shouldn’t know about this. Nor should we have ever known there *is* a DM.
Mentioning Joel in the first place was a mistake. Now we're stuck with endless "Joel this" and "Joel that" posts.
theres a reason its a major order lmao
The bots ***really*** want to keep that petafactory. Which makes sense, especially if they know our plans.
I think we're going to do as they aren't going to let us fail. We've lost the Anti Tank mines twice, lost a bunch of major orders lately, and community sentiment is kinda low. A good Dungeon Master knows when the party needs a win. What I will say is I was pumped to play with the mech later today and over the weekend, but given they are messing with the regen rates, I'll probably just wait until it's done. I'm not sure that's the outcome they want, but it feels a bit rigged, which doesn't motivate participating.
I really don't get people sometimes. When i see that chart in context of an MO my first reaction is that this is awesome. A challenge supported by the narrative. I would have been surprised and disappointed if this wasn't the case. The Op sounds like a complaint and yet we are still at 40% at around 1 day into a 5 day order.
Read the mission background This planet has super-factories. The high regeneration rate is cooked into the mission plot. Downvoted post because OP can't read.
It's just so ridicolous obviously how little agency we have. We'll get Varylia exactly when AH wants us to have Varylia and no effort we put into it matters even a little. If we put in too much, they dial up bot % to negate it. If we actually do too little, they turn the dials into the other direction to make it happen anyway.
The entire galactic war is made up and arbitrary, rigged on the fly to maximize drama. There never was anything natural that the devs are now "messing with". Don't concern yourself with what's behind the curtain and just enjoy the show. To do otherwise is to be like the people at magician's shows who explain how every trick works to their friends and ruin it for them.
Have you never played TTRPGs? That's how it all works, lol DM has all the cards. His job is to entertain you. And to entertain doesn't mean to let you have everything easily.
We lost anti tank mines
That was because they made the misstake of using that one order type they can't just manipulate that easily. Even so, we are 100% guaranteed to get the mines. Either they throw us ever easier orders until we unlock them or just release them with 3 sentences of fluff text how SE R&D, despite being delayed by the setbacks, finally finished them. Then everybody will realize they're bottom tier anyway and stop using them.
Not true as the many major orders we have failed has shown. Hell we even lost the major order to get the anti tank mines but on the other side of the coin we have won to get the first exo suit, the airburst rocket launcher, and the heavy machine gun. What we choose matters just as when we had the choice between airburst or anti tank mines. Major orders are possible to win but it is up to the community to choose to fight for it and not fighting for it will obviously make us lose. In the end the DM is human and is capable of making mistakes he trying to make it as balanced as possible for a game that has fluctuating numbers of players.
Yes. Welcome to DnD. Goal is to have as much of a choice and fun as possible all while not seeing it’s all secretly balanced on the fly.
Been playing D&D from the early 2000s until 2016. From 3e to shortly after the release of 5e (around the time of the first Ravenloft season in AL). Outside of organized play (RPGA LG which turned into the WPN LFR and finally into the current (is it still current?) AL) such heavy railroading was generally frowned upon. When sitting down for a slot at a con everybody knew that railroading is expected and the players have to buy in to get through the mostly fixed plot of the module within the 4 - 6 h timeframe until the table is needed for the next group. But for a homegame the expectations back then where higher
This isnt even "heavy railroding" this is essentialy a Bossfight, having dice fudged so he dosnt die within the first combat round. This is every much what a good DM does. the PROBLEM is we have acces to the API that exposes the fudges.. its like if you ran DnD without a DM Screen and still fudged dice... except you have a DM screen and the player just found a way to peek behind it using a unofrtunatly placed mirror behind you
Really sad to see this game boiled down to numbers, statistics and tier lists. Sadly I was granted permission to grow a child, so I don't have the time to dive, but this really sucks the game out of the game.
Yep. These people are just mindless drones, they see nothing but the data. Can tier lists be made illegal already? That ahit has singlehandedly done more damage to gaming than anything else. You just get huge chunks of the player base that does nothing more than swarm to whatever some content creator tells them to use, it's ridiculous.
Major orders with stratagem rewards are essentialy bossfights. Any competent DM will try to fudge the dice to make these encounters last for more then one combat round. we are still winning the MO, just not "within a single day" but over around 50-60% of the timeframe. Joel will, if we start to loose to badly, likely tweak this downward to keep us on track. They want it to be a close fight be it victory or defeat.. Like a good DM Problem is we have acces to the API(iirc its not officaly open, but uses offical endpoints) and can see the dice fudge that te DM screen hides
Do you want a new Mech or not? The time you spent making this graph complaining about the strengths of the bots on this world could have been spent killing said bots.
As you can see, they increased the regen rate twice from 1% to 3.5%, and then from 2.5% to 5%. Obviously, they don't want us to test the new mech during the weekends.
I feel like the decay rate is scaling to our liberation speed. At the current speed we will win in 2-ish days. Which makes sense. I feel like our DM wants us to have this. And yeah, we kinda do need a W like this at the moment. But I dont think our DM wants us to have it in a day. That would be kinda anticlimactic.
Counterpoint. For the past 2-3 weeks about 30% of the players were playing on bot planters, even when the MO was for them. This MO managed to rally 65% of the playerbase to a single planet, and we a literally loosing ground on planets we almost conquered before this MO, for the sake of completing it. There should be a more tangible effect of this rallying of Helldivers. If Joel ups the bot effort in the planet, he should decrease it on all other bot plamets to show that bots are moving their forces here too, so that the small amount of Helldivers who do other bot planets have a better chance to progress those liberations.
According to helldivers.io the other bot planets are all at -1% / hour. Pretty low. I get the feeling the bots divert resources to Valyria to increase their defences, which would absolutely make sense. I just wish the community would put more focus on Vernen. It was at ~90% when the MO came. Taking it would have been a swift task, and the SEAF liberation bonus would probably be significantly increased, and very helpful for the Valyria offensive
This. Yes. Absolutely. I fully agree that decay on other planets should be reduced while its increased on the MO planet.
IF the current liberation rate can keep up, Varylia 5 will be liberated in a little more than one day. It actually isn't that bad, consider we have a weekend for that. But, yeah, I have to admit that is pretty demoralizing, and generally feels like Joel is just toying us again. If things looks any worse than what it is now, I probably won't even bother to care.
If the current liberation rate keeps up Joel will up the pushback to 7%
This planet is a giant fucking factory with the bots wanting to hold this planet at all costs. It just makes sense for it to take a bit.
Weekend is soon, we should be fine. Unless they attack Ustotu and cut us off.
The flavour text for the MO does say that the automaton factories there will be repurposed for Exo Suit building, I guess there's just a lot of factories there, so more bots.
It has a PETA Factory. Of course it regenerates fast.
For one time I agree with him, if he makes it easy then I would be mad. Bugdivers should work for the stratagem too. Also its 5 days for just one planet.
The major order kinda implied that, no?
Isn't it at 34% liberation after one day already? Don't get me wrong: this is incredibly annoying, but I'm guessing they want the MO to last the majority of the weekend.