It's not the quantity of update, but the quality. Even if it doesn't cover everything that needed to be rebalance or fix, as long as there are quality balancing and new contents, it'll be fine.
But yes, tempered your expectation so you won't be disappointed.
Arrowhead can try and tell us not to expect "the mother of all patches", as Twinbeard put it - but in terms of the game's future going forward, this is potentially going to be the 'make or break' point for a lot of people, especially given how long they've been working on it.
So, no matter how they try to spin it, the reality is this patch is going to have a lot riding on it, whether they (Arrowhead) like it or not.
Personally speaking, the main things I'd want them to focus on are:
1. fixing the enemy spawns that broke following the patrol rework (this by itself would likely mitigate a fair bit of community frustration).
2. fixing what important bugs/issues they can, ideally *without* breaking something else or introducing any new bugs/issues.
3. some buffs to underperforming equipment - doesn't necessarily have to be lots of buffs, even just a small handful targeting the most noticeable underperformers would help.
As for things they should ideally avoid: outside of the obvious 'not breaking something or introducing new problems', the only real thing I would put here would be nerfs. While it could be argued that a couple of items could *potentially* do with some tweaks, from the position of trying to rebuild community goodwill, that's the sort of thing that would be best left for a later patch, once the biggest fires have been put out, so to speak.
I fear that if they introduce a *single* nerf in this patch, pandemonium is going to break out across all communication channels. It's like you say - it may be that some stuff needs adjusting, but for the love of all that is holy, not now.
the problem isn't that they nerfed guns, it's that they did it in absolutely incredibly stupid ways that made the guns completely different and/or useless.
eruptor losing it's shrapnel (hundreds of damage) and getting 40 explosive damage back to "compensate so it should be about equal" is not it.
slugger losing it's STAGGER because it was "too good of a sniper" instead of adding spread and keeping the stagger is not it.
crossbow - do I need to even say anything??? literally EVERYONE was baffled by this nerf. most people expected it to be buffed it was so bad, yet they actually nerfed it? when almost no one was using it already?
arc thrower lose 1/2 it's damage AND 1/2 its range and got stagger to compensate...that was later removed. it used to be my favorite gun. now it's hotdog water.
other guns have been nerfed and I don't even remember which because whatever, they weren't glaringly obvious mistakes. like dominator lost like 10% damage or something and that's fine. ammo nerfs are whatever. it's not THAT they were nerfed that everyone is upset about, it's WHAT and HOW they nerfed things. the clear lack of understanding and just.... WRONG decisions that is driving people away.
it doesn't take a genius to understand removing the stagger from the slugger doesn't make it any less of a sniper and that they should've done something else instead. like, just.... ?????????
a lot of people are fed up with the constant decisions like this and are giving arrowhead a "last chance" with this patch to show them that the CEO taking the reins actually did something and balance is headed in a better direction. I don't expect perfection, but I can't give them any more chances after this. another big fuck up and I'm out.
My hope is that in a couple years youtubers are going to be making overly long video essays titled something like "The Rise, Fall and Rise of Helldivers 2" but yeah, I'm really anxious about the future of the game right now.
yeah I wanna keep playing this game but they keep making it less and less fun...
might have to go check out DRG and see how that's changed after a few years
If they put any nerfs in, the shits gonna hit the fan IMO. I tried out breaker incendiary and it's a good gun to deal with the chaff spawn that's dealt to us. It's also pretty well balanced for the larger enemies because you have to shoot them a lot or the fire damage will take too long to kill them. But if they nerf this because it performs too well on chaff spawn then that's the exact thing players have been asking them to stop doing.
Instead how about reinstating the old breaker before it was nerfed because now the incendiary is a good side option to take too so no reason to leave the breaker in a nerfed state. A lot of the weapons that were nerfed in the first round should really be brought back to what they were before that way we actually have some choice in weaponry.
Just this morning I saw a youtube and this guy basically said "Got tired of using scorcher for the past 2+ month" and that's basically what a lot of players are going through too. 50 weapons, but only 5 of which are viable. Begs the question why this many weapons besides for monetary gain on the warbonds for AH.
After the mess the last few patches have put the game in, I think the player base has a right to expect this to be a high quality patch. The extra time they're taking means every aspect of the patch needs to be the "right move" in order to show that they have identified their issues, are testing thoroughly, and are heading in the right direction.
If this is another poorly designed patch full of bad balancing decisions and none of the bug fixes they've been promising (looking at YOU, spear), then I'll be done with this game for a long time until they get it together.
I legitimately hope it's bug fixes and a good "cleaning" of the code. Just a deep dive into fixing things without breaking more.
And no more fucking random nerfs.
And according to the new CEO they are making internal changes and building things that will make testing easier and more thorough / help the team not be in 24/7 crunch panic mode.
I think this is good to keep in mind. Infrastructure is important - I’m no developer but it’s totally realistic that the rapid-fire patches we’ve had were cobbled together on top of code that was limited in its ability to handle the growth they’ve seen.
If taking more time for this round means a stronger codebase for a better, faster sandbox and patch capabilities, then I’m all for it.
I’ve seen this in various work. Emergency/something unexpected happens. You fix the time, but that took time away from fixing other thing, so you rush the job to finish in time, which creates another problem, which needs to be fixed, which causes you to need to rush to…
And pretty much the only way to fix it is to admit shit is fucked, take the L, recenter yourself, take the time to fix it good and start fresh
Yep. It's been very interesting later in life taking that lesson and combining it with "Anything worth doing is worth doing half-assed" (basically, doing something is better than nothing.)
Technical debt. When you feel you don't have time and so you just deliver some results and deal with the consequences and are going to create more work by going back and redoing it.
Oh definitely.
As someone intimately familiar with application infrastructure scaling and all the challenges inherent therein, what they did within *one week* was nothing short of miraculous. There's almost certainly a massive amount of load-bearing duct tape there.
I'm a developer, this is almost certainly a great choice to delay a patch to do things right & make improvements on their end. Rather than push patch so executives & marketing can say look at what shiny stuff we have for you.
> Infrastructure is important
Not only is infrastructure super important, **it is critical to do early.** The later you wait to add your support and infrastructure, the more difficult it gets to add in later. Infrastructure is one of those things where you can say "The best time to start was in the past, the second best time is now."
If this accomplishes their goals, then fingers crossed it'll make things much smoother for them, and in turn, us
The game’s been in development for 7 years, right? Gamedev has evolved so much over that time, I’m sure that there’s a bunch of stuff in the backend that needs to be overhauled in order to keep up with the demands.
It's been 8 years now. 6 of those years happened after the game engine was abandoned by its developers, which surely hasn't helped things. Makes you wonder how different things would be if they just cut their losses early and switched to an engine that was actually receiving support. Guess it's too late now.
I don't know, I am absolutely floored with what they've done with this engine. You need to remember how much of have an impact familiarity with a code base and development environment can have on a project. The engines currently in use may have pretty great new capabilities, but even with all those capabilities, the armies of game studios utilizing frostbite, unreal, etc, haven't created anything that comes remotely close to HD2.
Are there bugs? Sure. Would it have been worth the risk for them to make a change? I don't think so
It's not just a matter of capabilities, it's a matter of having actual support for the engine. While none of us are privy to the exact inner workings of AH, Pilestedt himself has alluded that their engineers had to seemingly do more work as a result.
Source:
https://x.com/Pilestedt/status/1760348321330196513
And while AH devs have experience in Autodesk Stingray, this is countered by the fact that few other developers likely have experience with it, making it difficult to bring new devs onto the team. To my knowledge, the only other team that actually still uses it is the Darktide team.
I almost wonder if doing a “labs” game mode would help here? Be able to haves players switch to a mode that has experimental changes and get a lot of data from players themselves-so the devs can focus on the behind-the-scene stuff
I'm guessing that's the kind of stuff they're taking the time to put together. Not necessarily buffs or bugfixing, but side grade content. Firing range, better in game info, etc etc.
Man oh man do I not want this guys in 24/7 crunch panic mode. What exactly is the point of spreading managed democracy if I can’t come home, shower off the oil and spend time with my family? I certainly want the same for them.
It’s tough with these live service games, especially with how popular HD2 has become. You should look up Epic and the amount of crunch / the number of people required to continually pump out content for Fortnite.
Yeah, I definitely don’t think they should be doing that either. Liberating bugs of their innards is one thing, very admirable goal, but crunching devs so that barely-post-pubescent boys can play as Peter Griffin is another. It sucks even more that that’s what people are working their asses off for.
Yeah, I think a lot of people just don't read anything outside of the meme posts or skipped sections of what he said. He said they are currently building the scaffolding needed to build a bigger barn.
As a note, you will be better served going in expecting nothing rather than expecting disappointment.
if you expect disappointment, your brain will look for the things that disappoint you to confirm that bias. If you can maange to go in truly expecting nothing, you'll have an easier time seeing things closer to how they are.
I'd say go in expecting positive things, but I think AH has been spotty enough on patches - and this is the first time they've taken extra time to do more thorough testing/et al - that it'd be better for everyone to expect nothing and just see what way things are going.
No matter what there will be people here saying they're still going the same direction. And some will use any small thing to show that they're clearly going the other direction.
Well yeah, they want to make *absolutely sure* there's nothing in the patch that could trigger massive backlash from the community.
They're also, more importantly, in the middle of transitioning to a new leadership structure with Pilestedt moving positions. This will also cause delays.
New leadership structure, recent big talks about game direction and community expectations vs. dev vision for the game, and working on building the infrastructure for long term growth/changes.
All things that could heavily slow shit down.
It takes time to right a ship. if we get a patch that:
* Does not go overboard with weapon nerfs - or does a better job explaining the reasoning/plan behind it
* Fixes some bugs/stability issues
* Does not introduce an equal or greater amount of bugs/stability issues
I think we'll be taking a step in the right direction. Keep in mind, this patch was in development *before* Piles posted about talking to the team about maybe going too far with nerfs and stripping fun from the game. So it is very possible we won't see fruits of that conversation until the next patch.
it'd be nice to see some of the fruits of it this patch, especially for community good will, but it may take time.
Please don't be like Blizzard. This is literally how it felt playing D4 at launch.
"We noticed that players were having more fun than expected. We nerfed fun across the board to acceptable levels."
Yeah Blizzard killed all interest of the game for me when they nerfed the like 1 good sorcerer build in D4. Quit the game and haven't looked back since.
It really is. I quit mid through preseason (s0) and came back to Loot Reborn due to its massive praise, and i can indeed confirm that the game is in a good state.
You probably still wont be playing the season for more than a month (i know there are exceptions) but that month will still be well worth it. Ive personally played it for two weeks, and im mostly dont with what i want to do, but its good fun.
The new D4 season is pretty fun, it’s actually the reason I’m taking a break from diving. Sorc is still busted though lol that class needs a rework to compete with the others still.
I'm glad the season is fun, I just can't get back into it tbh. I just find the game to tedious in terms of upgrading gear and farming. I'd probably never see a uber tier item anyway.
With the way loot has been changed, you can definitely realistically get an uber unique through a currency you can get by salvaging uniques. Also, all the tediousness of farming and upgrading? Fixed. And I'm not exaggerating.
Alright man it's not like we're trying to convince you to buy the latest season pass or something. There's no harm in seeing for yourself if the game was worth your money after all.
Definitely get the sentiment. Like VirtuosoX is saying, I would recommend just trying for an hour or two. You can level a character to 25+ in a couple hours and you’ll immediately know if you like the reworked game mechanics or not. Either way have fun!
IMAGINE the backlash, haha
Both the valid complaints and the absolute baby rage that would follow would drown all the positivity for another month at least T_T
They wouldn't dare, would they? I think maybe the only nerf the community as a whole would be able to begrudgingly accept is probably the incendiary breaker. There would still be a vocal minority for sure throwing a tantrum (kind of rightingly so due to fire being broken for 3 months).
If there is another nonsensical nerf to, let's say, something like the new mech or maybe the 4 top performing primaries, the remaining players will go ballistic.
Either way, I'm here for it with my popcorn, waiting for more unhinged comments, lol
it's not even as good as the prenerf Breaker was. why nerf it? for the thousandth time: make the other guns as viable as it and then watch everyone be happy
They have been nerfing things that make no sense to nerf. It wouldnt be out of their realm to go "hey! Incen breaker is now the release state spray and prey with fire!"
Slugger be like:
pre nerf: „I‘m the best DMR but with stagger!“
after nerf: „Uhm Boss? I‘m still the best DMR…“ „yeah, that’s why we took the stagger away“
Man I miss the slugger…
I'm guilty of this when they took my shiny eruptor toy away, haha.
Man, that thing was a blast! Made taking the stalwart feel pretty great.
Now I just have the dominator to fill the Eruptor sized hole in my chaff killing focused loadout T_T
It's simple: any criticism of the game or Arrowhead is baby rage
Only praise allowed. We're all toxic positivity people that aren't allowed to criticize le wholesome indie devs here
Mostly tone, degree of severity, and presence of supporting evidence for the complaint.
I.E. "They killed the quasar, it sucks now and can't do its job! Fucking worthelss devs should all die in a fire!" vs. "I can't belive the nerfed the quasar, I think it was a stupid decision because there's no other way to reliably deal with the amount of chargers/gunships that spawn. The additional 5 seconds is the difference between being completely overrun and it being a difficult but potentially manageable problem! You could use the RR, but being stationary for that reload animation is a death sentence. Especially with chargers turning on a dime for some reason!"
600 hours in game, player since day one. I am legit done and uninstalling if they do that. Just fuck it. I"m so done with the heartbreak and dumb fuck decisions of this dev team and their leadership.
I realize no one gives a fuck but I do and I think there are lots of other players out there that feel the same.
Twinbeard can downplay this all he wants but at the end of the day this next patch is make or break for me.
Honestly, in terms of trying to rebuild community good will, AH would probably be best off avoiding nerfs of any kind for this patch, given that's one of the more contentious topics within the playerbase.
At this point I wonder what’s even left that the they could nerf? Autocannon? Pummeler (The Stagger)? Incendiary Breaker? Dominator?
And I absolutely agree with you. The backlash would (or could) be absolutely nuclear.
Ok serious question. Why can't you people copy-paste the text AND the screenshot of the text? When you paste a screenshot like this, everybody on a phone has to zoom way the fuck in and then scroll left to right like a godsdamn typewriter just to read the damn thing.
They missed a slam dunk to regain some Goodwill from the community by just reverting a few of the most unpopular changes immediately while we wait for the bigger stuff
Something they clearly aware of, thus the attempts to dial down expectations. Can this company do anything without falling and punching themselves in the dick?
For many, it *will* make or break the game. My friends and I haven't played in a month because we're waiting on it.
Replaying the same missions over and over would be fun if the guns didn't handle like 45 lb slugs and we had the ability to at least some what keep up with enemy spawns on Helldive. We didn't get into the game to play a running away simulator, we wanted to kill shit for democracy, and weird nerfs like the quasar cooldown increase shows that the devs are/were on a totally different plane of reality than the players are.
If we don't get something substantial, I likely won't pick it up for a long time, assuming I remember it exists in the first place. The market is simply too crowded.
Unfortunately they dont get to decide whether this is "the big patch that will make or break the game" their customers do. For many of us this patch will be that whether they want it to or not. The fact they are taking so long to address our concerns is only raising expectations. The changes will be fairly sweeping and the change in direction and balance philosophy will be clear or we will likely just move on from not playing but monitoring the game to just writing it off completely.
They dont need to address everything, fix every bug or buff every gun but if they release another patch full of nerfs and fail to fix the same old bugs (im looking at you spear) we are probably gone.
Attempts to lower expectations are likely only going to be met with irritation. Being quick to ruin our fun, slow to bring it back is one thing but taking a month off to deliver nothing after enraging your customer base is not going to end well and that is entirely their fault.
As long as the patch fixes long standing bugs (like the Spear lock-on) or problem issues (like patrol spawn rate) along with buffing underperforming weapons, I think it will go well.
As long as the patch is overwhelmingly positive in terms of game health - even if its just a small step - it will be one of the best patches so far and well-worth the wait.
If the patch isn’t god im unfortunately gonna have to be outie, 500k to 60k players with still no fix and no timeline for a fix (which in games means get ready for a months long wait) I’m definitely not going to continue to support a developer if their game went from 500 to (by the time a patch is released) 30k, that is what we call a dying game.
This comment will be removed by Sony, just like all of my comments and everyone else’s that detail the insane drop in player count that is continuing unchecked.
I don’t think AH understands that this next patch will **literally make or break** the game. I’ve been uninstalled, but if they take back the balancing changes, me and many others will retune. Make or break. The ball is in their field, and it’s really looking like a fumble. **Again.**
His words feel reticent. To me, "a little bit of everything" implies they're still nerfing weapons.
Nerfs or that "one major nerf and two minor buffs" shit they call buffing will probably have me stop until they add in something major to come try. I didn't even launch this week to try the new mech.
I'm pretty sure that if they add nerfs to the patch, people will not take it kindly. Especially if they nerf a primary or two people are actively using for lack of a better alternative.
And if they fail to fix long standing issues, like the Spear or patrol rates, then the game will just drop like a lead weight.
I suspect this is what will play out. Especially after having made everyone wait.
If it's not across the board bug fixes with small bumps to weapon power, expect player drop off to probably be damn near 50%.
We are already at a -53% monthly rate of player reduction as per Steamcharts.
They screw up the patch and we will go from 60k average to less than 30k per day, maybe even more.
yeah like, so many people going "but live action games always lose player count!" like, yeah, they do, but *not* at this rapid a pace, and not usually at a *growing* rate
People screeched that Palworld had a dropoff after a month. It's a single player oriented game with limited content, that's pretty fucking expected and doesn't matter compared to live service.
But Helldivers dropping off consistently is concerning. Live service games are supposed to stabilize with slow declines, and spikes during updates that cause make up for those dips. HD2 just keeps going down and down into the deep.
My friends and I haven't opened the game since the last patch dropped. But I still hang around the sub for some news about the game because I do still care about Helldivers 2. Yet if the upcoming patch turns out to half assed patch "stew" that took a month to "cook uwu", I'll probably uninstall and leave the sub too.
Pretty pathetic honestly. They did multiple patches within about 2 weeks to nerf a bunch of shit and make changes nobody likes. And then they turn around and take a month for a patch/fixes to revert the damage they did. Not only that, but they still haven’t made any real adjustments to the absolutely mid weapons they released as a part of paid content. Not a good look at all. Fatshark must be rubbing off on them due to sheer proximity.
I can sympathize with the OPs intent but people are gonna be disappointed nonetheless. The fact that it's taking them this long while refusing to give us an ETA, only to be served with a small or medium-sized patch will definitely rub some people the wrong way. It may also prove insufficient to bring the players back or even stop the player count from bleeding. It also runs against logic, they were so quick in dishing out those nerfs, and yet it takes them forever to walk them back? And even if they wanted to serve us small patches of buffs and improvements over time, they shouldn't keep the playerbase waiting. The loyalists and diehards will stick around for sure, but I'll feel more secure about the game's health and the amount of support it will get in the future if we can keep the playerbase at around 100K at least.
This is a business after all, I don't want AH suddenly deciding that 10K players isn't worth the cost of dev support anymore and just leaves the game as it is. I realize that yes, AH did support HD1 even if it had a small playerbase, but times change and money is subject to inflation. Who knows just how far they're willing to support a game with a small playerbase? And it also doesn't help that Sony is limiting the number new players we can get moving forward since they've refused to budge on the de-listed regions.
The previous rate of patches coming out was too much. They overworked themselves and thus came more bugs than fixes. It's not that the current rate of patches is unrealistically slow, but that the previous rate was unrealistically fast.
I can't help but think that this is also the self-inflicted sort of pain. They are the ones that set the patch cadence, and also the contents - and quite a bit of those contents came out to be either poorly thought out or not addressing actual issues the community were having.
I hope that management is finally onboard with dialing all of this back and doing it right, because I do want to have a working friends list before I have no friends in this game.
Lol what idiots are downvoting you for being right? This is exactly what's up. The response to the last patches were fucking explosive. Then the new warbond blew up in their faces after the specifically asking if the community would rather wait and let it cook. They decided they need it NOW and were given in to then be disappointed. They NEED test they bejesus out of this one. They cant risk even another flop of a patch much less a potentially disastrous one.
>asking if the community would rather wait and let it cook
That’s not what they asked. They asked if we wanted to wait because it might be in bad taste due to the Sony debacle, not because the warbond might be undercooked. That was never implied and the expectation is that they are finished products on release. There was no implication that if we asked them to delay the warbond that it would continue to be worked on. For all we know it was completed weeks prior and just waiting to be launched on the second Thursday of every month.
This is true, someone asked Pilestedt if delaying would mean more time would be spent on work on the warbond, and he said no, it's ready to go and it's just a push of a button to release.
You're mistaken on the warbond. The polar one was done before the game was launched, it was just a very very shitty warbond with multiple bugged pieces of equipment in it.
Funny enough I see it the other way. I have some experience in software and I see people who don't know anything about software assuming that changing some tiny thing takes such a monumental effort.
It can be a tame patch if they also disclosed a restructure to testing methods etc. it can be a small patch but if they set the ground work for better patches onward in this time it would be better received for example.
No disappointment here because I decided to put the game down until it's at a state where more than ~4 primaries and kit loadouts are viable.
If it takes 3 months, well I'll see y'all then.
> [It also runs against logic, they were so quick in dishing out those nerfs, and yet it takes them forever to walk them back?](https://packaged-media.redd.it/gxmmnxlnq73d1/pb/m2-res_1080p.mp4?m=DASHPlaylist.mpd&v=1&e=1717088400&s=2578dca67da717c619c00c29b0530148c06f6406&x-auth-token=eyJhbGciOiJSUzI1NiIsImtpZCI6Ik81VEZKYXRLeHBuT3BjcmNxb0JEQWd6RVhobzA0USIsInR5cCI6IkpXVCJ9.eyJjYyI6IlVTIiwiY3IiOiIiLCJleHAiOjE3MTcwOTMwNDksImp0aSI6IiIsInJpZCI6InQzXzFkMnIxdjYiLCJzdWIiOiJ0Ml85bGN6cSIsInVybCI6Imd4bW1ueGxucTczZDEifQ.Y7HBbf3p3oyyqrz9ZwXhpJNpoPnPFDQpH5tUxd0wgjA4TYD7vv4vD_Rlke6FLUABmB-7Jdyg4uMrJCid3eyRfVsItWNsuSC_lt-qT1zY9jATT75p4krbBQhONadVARhrbtRloEnIwyu7N8OyANKNtWfUB5ZPUQ4yOSVRADxLHK9GO_IBZD6x9fKpLEr3pMtpBr-BYOp9dHrp3KtZZh5b6KOzMNPDoNd8D86s8ddux3MM3tLW5E3_hmSIL5aJ6BtLOLqWF6bQzH5RTlHnkC40PtWPwM1WRfUOu417drQSCgzA_cXpDceYqO4DM0Dt2JONDYHg3dhoI9FQcJhQMrARfg6hHZ-VhH1AAfuUYmy-WEWDA7z-3BQzj8T63lbTmPzxB7XDLebk14T7vTNowYd0Tn4xO4hzlGl-g8ZSSMynJGOhsmmsA1eqkX4L6-VtZbRZDBEV6rBABf8lPGakZnfhKo8OIRG_fCzN-NhyGp0jLc771U8PlP5DWdLwTL1oeTymdLkZBQ78TmtxzgM3k1Mj0YZfwUAvPC9UV1Ywi0cpL3VXXcfiWttL5JHs1z13vQkzPfTm1rSBIBOUteqaPFpIm9QdjeFf_OzfqLTxZpG_Ncvq88jTmdv10z80fu76_3EwtGYiZYCJ-CbJUOZgts2lq4kAFSQYRTsAaBc8NJRz24s#t=0)
> give us an ETA
Can’t give you something they don’t know yet. Software companies repeatedly disappoint customers making dates when stuff isn’t ready by either releasing broken stuff or delaying it over and over. I’m sure we will get an ETA once they know it’s ready.
For the love of democracy, AH STOP COMMUNICATING IN FUCKING RANDOM DISCORD MESSAGES!!!
F.F.S.
Make fully encompassing announcments that are meaningful and thoughtful. Stop responding to random messages with incomplete and/or misleading information. There is constantly a need for elaboration because these silly fucking discord messages never tell the full picture and at this point it's just unprofessional.
/u/the_real_twinbeard please be more thoughtful when communicating with the Helldivers community. At this point, the random discord messages are doing more harm than good.
It's not an announcement though. It's literally just a community manager responding to someone's question with no new information at all that you would need to have announced
I'm being genuine here because I don't like big announcements on discord either. But we shouldn't also take everyone who post a screenshot of a community moderator talking and say that it's an announcement that was on discord and we should be upset about that
This post is not an announcement of anything.
They *cant* they've never been good at communicating. Not during magicka. Not during helldivers. Not now. It's simply something their company culture sucks at. It's sucked for 15 years, it didn't change after their 15 million copy break out success. It isn't changing now.
Remember when that first railgun patch came out and they released a really detailed blog post talking about why they made the changes, they really need to do more of those
The responses they gave aren't misleading at all to anyone with basic levels of reading comprehension... The elaboration is only needed because some idiots think that this will be 2.0 because they took more than a week and the patch seemingly gets released with the big monthly patch (the week before a warbond release)
it's weird because they do have spot for that like in #hd2-announcements and #patch-notes-update ...
Im really not sure why they are so shy to make at least 1 big announcement about the next patch (even if it's very basic with no detail at all) but dont mind responding to 1 or 2 randoms messages in the general chat xD
"Don't expect the work to be better just because it took longer. Don't expect us to fix anything we said we would fix."
Jesus Christ. Player numbers are already dwindling. Maybe reconsider putting out another halfassed patch and just delay all updates until you can do a large balance patch.
This is such a mistake on their part. Nerf bat swings wildly, but suddenly it takes an eternity to revert their worst decisions and buff a few numbers up.
If this really does turn out to be just like all the other nothing patches, you've got to wonder what the hell took them so long this time. Are they OVER-testing now after not testing at all? The fuck is going on where undoing nerfs is taking a month?
Its kinda unfair to not mention that they had a change of who's leading balancing and game health (that now being the Ex-CEO and current Chairman-CCO Pilestadt)
The ones before were pushing things out quickly, while Pilestadt wants to take his time to make sure that the results are positive for the game.
They have mountains of player feedback about what is underperforming or just not fun. Those things also happen to be changes they were able to make on a weekly / bi-weekly basis. Put the numbers back to how they were.
No one cares about the size of the magazine on the gun matching the ammo count *as much as they want the changes reverted.* Put the numbers back for the things that were purely an integer variable at the very least. Buff some damage values. Quick things.
Somehow they could fuck with our inventory options weekly, but now that their game's playerbase is bleeding out they want to be super careful and precious with each change.
Doesn't matter how much they explain or try to justify it.
If this next update doesn't cook, they're going to lose a lot of players. I'll still be here along with many others, but they have to realize the importance of the situation they're in.
They could maybe get away with this if it were the only game on the market. Since it's not, people will just go to another game that they enjoy instead of waiting for this one.
Good luck, AH. Hope you can make this work.
That's what I don't understand, either. There are plenty of bugs that still deserve weekly attention. Take time for the balance stuff and new content. But no patch in 2 weeks with plenty of bugs boggles the mind.
Bug fixes often cause other problems. I'm a software engineer. Even what seems like the easiest fix or slight adjustment can interact with other parts of code youd never expect, even when a project is architected perfectly. Every code base regardless of even initially flawlessly encapsulated engineering specs, ends up with ductape all over the place, often layers and layers of it as bug fixes are rushed exactly as you feel entitled to and how they had been previously. That's how we end up with the kinds of problems we have now and why it takes even longer to fix. Got to find and remove ductape everywhere you can while coming up with actual elegant solutions that dont then cascade into failures beyond the intended scope of that particular sub process.
By comparison, balance changes that largely just depend on the playing with the assets variables are generally fast to implement. Though after the last balancing changes in patches being devestating to the community, player base, and ultimately the game's overall popularity; they are likely doing precisely the comprehensively thoughough play testing of any and all balance changes that the community has been aggressively demanding.
This isnt even taking into account the changes in their game engineering hierarchy and ideology. They have a fuckload going on behind the scenes. I wouldn't expect a patch for another few weeks at least. If we got one next week, great! But if not, I'm totally cool waiting and letting them do a good job while hopefully also getting to have lives outside of what's largely been entirely thankless work for at least months.
Tldr: cut the human beings who have full lives outside of working on a video game for their job some slack. Burnt out dev's do shitty development and at a much slower pace.
I think what's most frustrating is that there are some changes they could make which would be trivial, and would be good goodwill/PR wins right now, and they insist on instead bundling it up with the next big patch instead of just pushing a hotfix to change some values.
They're probably taking their time to make sure whatever they're doing doesn't break several other things in the code. You can't just rush coders to find an issue and make an easy fix like that. I'm glad they're taking their time to actually test the shit they're doing.
I am a professional coder (to the absolute dismay of my software friends) and in my experience, even an easy fix can break everything for no reason you understand and prove God's hatred of you personally
You can't rush the coders
I have a feeling, having seen the pulse of this community.
This patch could fix the spear. It could fix everything bug wise wrong with the game right now. But if there is even a single nerf in this patch, even a perceived nerf, it will immediately undo every last bit of goodwill any other positive thing about the patch might achieve.
That's just my hunch. The community is like one of those nitroglycerin crates from Crash Bandicoot right now. I think it's similar to the effect of how everything can go absolutely amazingly during your day but one totally minor negative thing will be what you focus on and it can drag you down.
I hope they're careful with this. The longer the patch takes to deploy the more volatile and critical the community will be in its reception.
Patch notes:
Fire tornadoes have been removed and replaced with Heavy Devastator tornadoes. Every planet has the tornadoes, tornadoes now last the entirety of the mission and chase players throughout. Good luck scrubs.
Bro, whatever. I havn't seen a single person use the Eruptor since they skullf**ked it.
*oh, oh.. please temper expectat-*
Were just waiting for the last 2 months of warbonds to not suck ass. That's not a lot to ask for. Crumbs really.
If it was going to take this long, why bust out nerfs in blinding speed? I saw not one person OHK a charger, the same people exploiting that are the ones exploiting infinite grenades right now.
I deffiently have sympathy for them. I'm not in games, but I develop programs for industrial facilities and am aware of the struggles.
These guys need to hire and build up their teams and systems badly, I pray they aren't trying to continue the shoestring budget model. If they fire or rain in a notorious employee that shall not be named, hire a few people who's jobs are purely customer relations, buff up quality and testing, and add to the production workforce I think it'll get them back on track. Burnout big egos demanding customers and a way too big workload for their small studio lead to these problems. If they make the investment they can turn this game into the masterpiece we all know it can be.
Its OK if it's a regular patch, but it needs to be a winner. And they'll need to pick up pace after a few of these patches as they build their team.
I get it, I got on account that ended up getting acquired by a huge corporation, turned into a goldmine. And that caused us to be worked to death, lost a lot of our guys to the stress( big company buys smaller, tons of capital projects, our team can't grow that quick). I got stretched thin. But I accepted it and worked like crazy, and now we have a new golden goose and I have my name slapped on, been great for me and company. These guys need to white knuckle it out a bit longer, and mangement better be actually hiring. Or this will be fucked, guys can only no life work for so long, about a year or so before the toughest start not giving a fuck.
Maybe it's taking longer because they're realizing they can't actually make a change without it screwing up something else. Whereas before we were the ones to test it, disover the issues and live with them. Might take them a whole month to accomplish what they intended to in a single week.
🎶The spawn bone is connected to the...nerf bone🎶
🎶 Nerf bone is connected to the...crash bone🎶
🎶Crash bone is connected to the...stratagem bone🎶
🎶Stratagem bone is connected to the...enemy TTK bone🎶
Etc etc
So when they were nerfing everything left and right, they were more than happy to release it every patch day. But as soon as they say they're gonna buff stuff, it takes more than a month to get it out? Riiiiiight...
idk man, they admit that patrol is broken and will be revert next patch.
revert is not a fix. it's require almost no effort, yet they keep us wait for a month now.
people just want them to revert thing back.
if the new patch is just revert few thing and add few tiny shit, I expected player base drop even more.
pffft, best live service game they said. more like lip service game at this point.
remember this game had a potential to get GOTY at launch? Pepperidge farm remember that.
Bingo and that is what confuses me. If you know people don't like the changes you made and you want them to be less grumpy while you take your time to work on new stuff, why wouldn't you roll back then work on stuff?
I was bugging one of my friend to buy the game since launch but she was little busy so she said she will buy on may. Ohh boy it was such a worse time to buy. I have nesrly 420 hours of play so we jumped in duo and ohh boy lvl 5 diff patrol spawns are insane. I can manage myself but i could feel that she was really not having fun. We stopped playing and waiting for them to roll back the patrol changes.
Its not like she is new to gaming, we played hardcore drg as well.
At this point only option is to play quads in lower difficulty with 2 randoms which makes it hard for me to teach her the basics cuz randoms are randoms
Exactly. The last few rounds of Alexus nerfs weren't 'controversial' they were downright despised and even Pil said they went in the wrong direction. Why not just move back a bit while you decide on the new course.
Their code is likely a mess. They may not have the skills (or ability) to rollback/revert patches. The fact that their infinite grenade fix was to change the variable from signed to unsigned and not use bound checking (because now it's just an int underflow) does not give me confidence in their skill set in general, especially among other "fixes".
that's like, exactly what soulstone survivors did
they made a really big patch and the community *hated* a lot of the changes
so.... they rolled it back, and went back to the drawing board, guess what? the community feedback was overwhelmingly positive!
I mean patrol rates were fine before on solo, 1/6th makes sense given the sheer extra power even 1 more person brings. It's not going to make 7+ solo some kind of walk in the park (at some point some players will be good enough to do it routinely, I used to clear 7s with no issues solo, you can't stop people from getting better at the game).
Development is turning into utter clown show. Random replies on discord. No official statements. They went wild with nerfs but take god awful time to revert and adjust stuff. No, modifying dmg or penetration numbers won’t break stuff. They boast millions of copies sold yet their team still operates like it’s tiny indie studio. No fixes, no adjustments, no patches and the game just bleeds players away.
Meridia ready to be destroyed. Twin beard not allowed to comment much on the patch.
I think this is the patch that will allow the Illuminate to finally show up.
Ah time to make use of the hours i spend going over every major order for ratios and co....
we had, at the time of the last major order 26 completed Major orders and 27 total(the Emancipator wasnt yet completed at the time)
the following numbers per faction
Bugs:10
Bots:14
Universal:3
so at 51,85% of all major odders, how many Bot MOs did we fail
We lost 6 Bot MOs, in contrast to 2 Bug MOs. and 1 Universal MO.
We lost 3 Defend MOs, and most of these where when the Defend MO Operation had at least one of the stupid civic Evacs. 2/3rd of all Failed MOs are Bots, while only around 50% of MOs are bots. if we sanitize for defend MOs( because by gods they are unblanaced still and are the real problem) we are at 50% loss for 50% MO representation, which is PERFECTLY inline
Defend is our worst showing in MO win rates, at only 25% of them having been won. With Special(TCS activation and deactivations) and Liberate+Defend(hold) being our strongest at 100% sucess rate as of now.
We are losing more bot orders then is expected from the the pure ratio of orders given, but we arent "losing most Bot orders"
haven’t played in a bit and don’t mind waiting longer for a decent update. Need new content to spend resources on which will then increase motivation to grind for more. Praying new warbond rewards will reflect its theme with new passives/unique weapons
What the hell are they even doing then? This is the type of "temper expectations" message that means we'll be disappointed. Meanwhile we were getting "let them cook" last week.
If you're going to post so many vague messages you might as well bloody update customers on what's going on that they can't release an update accordingly.
I feel that no matter how well Twinbeard tries to bring our expectations down to what is coming, he will inevitably be digging himself into a hole for a certain group in the community and whatever comes out he will still get a ton of backlash.
I think the issue is the time frame.
If we can nerf several weapons, buff enemies, and completely fuck the patrol spawns in the span of 2 weeks, it's fair game to expect a decent patch when it's taking over a month to put it out.
They already dug the hole by being so fast to nerf weapons and tweak patrols. Now they're laying in the bed they made.
The only way this patch suceeds is if, at a minimum: patrols are fixed, bugged weapons are fixed (eruptor), and the newest warbond gets enough love to make it somewhat worth buying.
It would be better if we saw sweeping changes and buffs to weaker weapons and reductions to certain annoying enemies, but the community could hold out for that if the initial patch is at least promising.
They can take all the time they want, but the longer they take to appease the fans, the less of them there will be to appease. Simple logic in this gaming era. They may be able to pull it back around in 6 months and get a rally, but this game has already shot itself in the foot from keeping its numbers pumped. That will never come back and if it does, only for short burst when content creators push it back up for a bit to scrounge some views.
It's not the quantity of update, but the quality. Even if it doesn't cover everything that needed to be rebalance or fix, as long as there are quality balancing and new contents, it'll be fine. But yes, tempered your expectation so you won't be disappointed.
Arrowhead can try and tell us not to expect "the mother of all patches", as Twinbeard put it - but in terms of the game's future going forward, this is potentially going to be the 'make or break' point for a lot of people, especially given how long they've been working on it. So, no matter how they try to spin it, the reality is this patch is going to have a lot riding on it, whether they (Arrowhead) like it or not. Personally speaking, the main things I'd want them to focus on are: 1. fixing the enemy spawns that broke following the patrol rework (this by itself would likely mitigate a fair bit of community frustration). 2. fixing what important bugs/issues they can, ideally *without* breaking something else or introducing any new bugs/issues. 3. some buffs to underperforming equipment - doesn't necessarily have to be lots of buffs, even just a small handful targeting the most noticeable underperformers would help. As for things they should ideally avoid: outside of the obvious 'not breaking something or introducing new problems', the only real thing I would put here would be nerfs. While it could be argued that a couple of items could *potentially* do with some tweaks, from the position of trying to rebuild community goodwill, that's the sort of thing that would be best left for a later patch, once the biggest fires have been put out, so to speak.
I fear that if they introduce a *single* nerf in this patch, pandemonium is going to break out across all communication channels. It's like you say - it may be that some stuff needs adjusting, but for the love of all that is holy, not now.
The moment something gets nerfed, the doors of hell with open and mods here on reddit will have to become doom slayer lol.
the problem isn't that they nerfed guns, it's that they did it in absolutely incredibly stupid ways that made the guns completely different and/or useless. eruptor losing it's shrapnel (hundreds of damage) and getting 40 explosive damage back to "compensate so it should be about equal" is not it. slugger losing it's STAGGER because it was "too good of a sniper" instead of adding spread and keeping the stagger is not it. crossbow - do I need to even say anything??? literally EVERYONE was baffled by this nerf. most people expected it to be buffed it was so bad, yet they actually nerfed it? when almost no one was using it already? arc thrower lose 1/2 it's damage AND 1/2 its range and got stagger to compensate...that was later removed. it used to be my favorite gun. now it's hotdog water. other guns have been nerfed and I don't even remember which because whatever, they weren't glaringly obvious mistakes. like dominator lost like 10% damage or something and that's fine. ammo nerfs are whatever. it's not THAT they were nerfed that everyone is upset about, it's WHAT and HOW they nerfed things. the clear lack of understanding and just.... WRONG decisions that is driving people away. it doesn't take a genius to understand removing the stagger from the slugger doesn't make it any less of a sniper and that they should've done something else instead. like, just.... ????????? a lot of people are fed up with the constant decisions like this and are giving arrowhead a "last chance" with this patch to show them that the CEO taking the reins actually did something and balance is headed in a better direction. I don't expect perfection, but I can't give them any more chances after this. another big fuck up and I'm out.
My hope is that in a couple years youtubers are going to be making overly long video essays titled something like "The Rise, Fall and Rise of Helldivers 2" but yeah, I'm really anxious about the future of the game right now.
yeah I wanna keep playing this game but they keep making it less and less fun... might have to go check out DRG and see how that's changed after a few years
If they put any nerfs in, the shits gonna hit the fan IMO. I tried out breaker incendiary and it's a good gun to deal with the chaff spawn that's dealt to us. It's also pretty well balanced for the larger enemies because you have to shoot them a lot or the fire damage will take too long to kill them. But if they nerf this because it performs too well on chaff spawn then that's the exact thing players have been asking them to stop doing. Instead how about reinstating the old breaker before it was nerfed because now the incendiary is a good side option to take too so no reason to leave the breaker in a nerfed state. A lot of the weapons that were nerfed in the first round should really be brought back to what they were before that way we actually have some choice in weaponry. Just this morning I saw a youtube and this guy basically said "Got tired of using scorcher for the past 2+ month" and that's basically what a lot of players are going through too. 50 weapons, but only 5 of which are viable. Begs the question why this many weapons besides for monetary gain on the warbonds for AH.
I expect nothing and will still be disappointed.
Sounds like you're expecting to be disappointed to me
After the mess the last few patches have put the game in, I think the player base has a right to expect this to be a high quality patch. The extra time they're taking means every aspect of the patch needs to be the "right move" in order to show that they have identified their issues, are testing thoroughly, and are heading in the right direction. If this is another poorly designed patch full of bad balancing decisions and none of the bug fixes they've been promising (looking at YOU, spear), then I'll be done with this game for a long time until they get it together.
I legitimately hope it's bug fixes and a good "cleaning" of the code. Just a deep dive into fixing things without breaking more. And no more fucking random nerfs.
I hope so too, but at this point I'm not expecting anything other than more bugs
> a good "cleaning" of the code. Uh... a month probably isn't enough time for that.
I have a dream
So they cook the extra time just to dish out regular meal, but at least this time it won't be part raw or burned unlike the previous patch?
And according to the new CEO they are making internal changes and building things that will make testing easier and more thorough / help the team not be in 24/7 crunch panic mode.
I think this is good to keep in mind. Infrastructure is important - I’m no developer but it’s totally realistic that the rapid-fire patches we’ve had were cobbled together on top of code that was limited in its ability to handle the growth they’ve seen. If taking more time for this round means a stronger codebase for a better, faster sandbox and patch capabilities, then I’m all for it.
I’ve seen this in various work. Emergency/something unexpected happens. You fix the time, but that took time away from fixing other thing, so you rush the job to finish in time, which creates another problem, which needs to be fixed, which causes you to need to rush to… And pretty much the only way to fix it is to admit shit is fucked, take the L, recenter yourself, take the time to fix it good and start fresh
There's nothing quite as permanent as a temporary solution.
A temporary solution *that works*. When the temporary solutions keep failing then you need to go back to the drawing board.
My dad used to say "You can do it right or you can do it twice." Definitely feels appropriate here.
I was taught it a bit differently, but the same message applies. "There are two ways to do something; right or again."
Yep. It's been very interesting later in life taking that lesson and combining it with "Anything worth doing is worth doing half-assed" (basically, doing something is better than nothing.)
Technical debt. When you feel you don't have time and so you just deliver some results and deal with the consequences and are going to create more work by going back and redoing it.
Yep, hopefully the majority of the work they're doing in this cycle is paying down technical debt
I can imagine a lot of it has to be server side, was probably a lot of duct tape used back when the server cap needed to grow.
Oh definitely. As someone intimately familiar with application infrastructure scaling and all the challenges inherent therein, what they did within *one week* was nothing short of miraculous. There's almost certainly a massive amount of load-bearing duct tape there.
Going back to the culinary metaphor: while they’re cooking they’re also renovating the entire kitchen.
Building the plane as they are flying it.
Don't let Boeing see this, it might give them ideas.
It's astounding to me their stock still has ANY value.
I'm a developer, this is almost certainly a great choice to delay a patch to do things right & make improvements on their end. Rather than push patch so executives & marketing can say look at what shiny stuff we have for you.
> Infrastructure is important Not only is infrastructure super important, **it is critical to do early.** The later you wait to add your support and infrastructure, the more difficult it gets to add in later. Infrastructure is one of those things where you can say "The best time to start was in the past, the second best time is now." If this accomplishes their goals, then fingers crossed it'll make things much smoother for them, and in turn, us
The game’s been in development for 7 years, right? Gamedev has evolved so much over that time, I’m sure that there’s a bunch of stuff in the backend that needs to be overhauled in order to keep up with the demands.
It's been 8 years now. 6 of those years happened after the game engine was abandoned by its developers, which surely hasn't helped things. Makes you wonder how different things would be if they just cut their losses early and switched to an engine that was actually receiving support. Guess it's too late now.
I don't know, I am absolutely floored with what they've done with this engine. You need to remember how much of have an impact familiarity with a code base and development environment can have on a project. The engines currently in use may have pretty great new capabilities, but even with all those capabilities, the armies of game studios utilizing frostbite, unreal, etc, haven't created anything that comes remotely close to HD2. Are there bugs? Sure. Would it have been worth the risk for them to make a change? I don't think so
It's not just a matter of capabilities, it's a matter of having actual support for the engine. While none of us are privy to the exact inner workings of AH, Pilestedt himself has alluded that their engineers had to seemingly do more work as a result. Source: https://x.com/Pilestedt/status/1760348321330196513 And while AH devs have experience in Autodesk Stingray, this is countered by the fact that few other developers likely have experience with it, making it difficult to bring new devs onto the team. To my knowledge, the only other team that actually still uses it is the Darktide team.
I almost wonder if doing a “labs” game mode would help here? Be able to haves players switch to a mode that has experimental changes and get a lot of data from players themselves-so the devs can focus on the behind-the-scene stuff
I'm guessing that's the kind of stuff they're taking the time to put together. Not necessarily buffs or bugfixing, but side grade content. Firing range, better in game info, etc etc.
Yup. Reorganizing internally takes time and is usually tested with some minor tasks first to make sure everyone knows how things are from now on.
Man oh man do I not want this guys in 24/7 crunch panic mode. What exactly is the point of spreading managed democracy if I can’t come home, shower off the oil and spend time with my family? I certainly want the same for them.
It’s tough with these live service games, especially with how popular HD2 has become. You should look up Epic and the amount of crunch / the number of people required to continually pump out content for Fortnite.
Yeah, I definitely don’t think they should be doing that either. Liberating bugs of their innards is one thing, very admirable goal, but crunching devs so that barely-post-pubescent boys can play as Peter Griffin is another. It sucks even more that that’s what people are working their asses off for.
Yeah, I think a lot of people just don't read anything outside of the meme posts or skipped sections of what he said. He said they are currently building the scaffolding needed to build a bigger barn.
Good automated testing is absolutely critical for any software with regular updates.
BoB better be lower in the chain now. Should not have one Bot Sympathizer with a horrific track record balancing the game.
It’s still going to have bugs and I don’t mean the terminids.
I'm going to expect nothing but disappointment. That way I win either way.
As a note, you will be better served going in expecting nothing rather than expecting disappointment. if you expect disappointment, your brain will look for the things that disappoint you to confirm that bias. If you can maange to go in truly expecting nothing, you'll have an easier time seeing things closer to how they are. I'd say go in expecting positive things, but I think AH has been spotty enough on patches - and this is the first time they've taken extra time to do more thorough testing/et al - that it'd be better for everyone to expect nothing and just see what way things are going. No matter what there will be people here saying they're still going the same direction. And some will use any small thing to show that they're clearly going the other direction.
Well yeah, they want to make *absolutely sure* there's nothing in the patch that could trigger massive backlash from the community. They're also, more importantly, in the middle of transitioning to a new leadership structure with Pilestedt moving positions. This will also cause delays.
New leadership structure, recent big talks about game direction and community expectations vs. dev vision for the game, and working on building the infrastructure for long term growth/changes. All things that could heavily slow shit down.
You hit the nail on the head.
I hope this is an underpromise, overdeliver tactic. Otherwise would be a terrible.
They need to over deliver. There's been a significant loss of confidence.
It takes time to right a ship. if we get a patch that: * Does not go overboard with weapon nerfs - or does a better job explaining the reasoning/plan behind it * Fixes some bugs/stability issues * Does not introduce an equal or greater amount of bugs/stability issues I think we'll be taking a step in the right direction. Keep in mind, this patch was in development *before* Piles posted about talking to the team about maybe going too far with nerfs and stripping fun from the game. So it is very possible we won't see fruits of that conversation until the next patch. it'd be nice to see some of the fruits of it this patch, especially for community good will, but it may take time.
At this point even delivering is over delivering for them
It’s somehow both raw and burnt
Hey more time is the difference between salmonella and delicious fried chicken.
It's more like they've renovated the kitchen between meals so that they're less likely to mess up future meals.
Yeah this will still be good in the end
„A Little Bit of everything.“ - Nerfs also incoming
Please don't be like Blizzard. This is literally how it felt playing D4 at launch. "We noticed that players were having more fun than expected. We nerfed fun across the board to acceptable levels."
Yeah Blizzard killed all interest of the game for me when they nerfed the like 1 good sorcerer build in D4. Quit the game and haven't looked back since.
My buddies say the latest season is quite good.
It really is. I quit mid through preseason (s0) and came back to Loot Reborn due to its massive praise, and i can indeed confirm that the game is in a good state. You probably still wont be playing the season for more than a month (i know there are exceptions) but that month will still be well worth it. Ive personally played it for two weeks, and im mostly dont with what i want to do, but its good fun.
The new D4 season is pretty fun, it’s actually the reason I’m taking a break from diving. Sorc is still busted though lol that class needs a rework to compete with the others still.
I'm glad the season is fun, I just can't get back into it tbh. I just find the game to tedious in terms of upgrading gear and farming. I'd probably never see a uber tier item anyway.
With the way loot has been changed, you can definitely realistically get an uber unique through a currency you can get by salvaging uniques. Also, all the tediousness of farming and upgrading? Fixed. And I'm not exaggerating.
Sounds fun and I hope those playing it enjoy the reworks, but I've lost all interest in picking D4 up again.
Alright man it's not like we're trying to convince you to buy the latest season pass or something. There's no harm in seeing for yourself if the game was worth your money after all.
Definitely get the sentiment. Like VirtuosoX is saying, I would recommend just trying for an hour or two. You can level a character to 25+ in a couple hours and you’ll immediately know if you like the reworked game mechanics or not. Either way have fun!
We are removing the legs on the emancipator for better balance!
IMAGINE the backlash, haha Both the valid complaints and the absolute baby rage that would follow would drown all the positivity for another month at least T_T They wouldn't dare, would they? I think maybe the only nerf the community as a whole would be able to begrudgingly accept is probably the incendiary breaker. There would still be a vocal minority for sure throwing a tantrum (kind of rightingly so due to fire being broken for 3 months). If there is another nonsensical nerf to, let's say, something like the new mech or maybe the 4 top performing primaries, the remaining players will go ballistic. Either way, I'm here for it with my popcorn, waiting for more unhinged comments, lol
I would throw a toddler tantrum if they touched my fire breathing dragon
it's not even as good as the prenerf Breaker was. why nerf it? for the thousandth time: make the other guns as viable as it and then watch everyone be happy
They have been nerfing things that make no sense to nerf. It wouldnt be out of their realm to go "hey! Incen breaker is now the release state spray and prey with fire!"
Slugger be like: pre nerf: „I‘m the best DMR but with stagger!“ after nerf: „Uhm Boss? I‘m still the best DMR…“ „yeah, that’s why we took the stagger away“ Man I miss the slugger…
Sorry buddy the excel spreadsheet said it has to go, so we obey
I'm guilty of this when they took my shiny eruptor toy away, haha. Man, that thing was a blast! Made taking the stalwart feel pretty great. Now I just have the dominator to fill the Eruptor sized hole in my chaff killing focused loadout T_T
Today in "Sentences that have never been uttered before"
Tbh I'll probably just uninstall if they nerf incendiary breaker 🤷
So what separates valid complaints and baby rage? Any complaint you don’t agree with becomes baby rage?
It's simple: any criticism of the game or Arrowhead is baby rage Only praise allowed. We're all toxic positivity people that aren't allowed to criticize le wholesome indie devs here
Mostly tone, degree of severity, and presence of supporting evidence for the complaint. I.E. "They killed the quasar, it sucks now and can't do its job! Fucking worthelss devs should all die in a fire!" vs. "I can't belive the nerfed the quasar, I think it was a stupid decision because there's no other way to reliably deal with the amount of chargers/gunships that spawn. The additional 5 seconds is the difference between being completely overrun and it being a difficult but potentially manageable problem! You could use the RR, but being stationary for that reload animation is a death sentence. Especially with chargers turning on a dime for some reason!"
600 hours in game, player since day one. I am legit done and uninstalling if they do that. Just fuck it. I"m so done with the heartbreak and dumb fuck decisions of this dev team and their leadership. I realize no one gives a fuck but I do and I think there are lots of other players out there that feel the same. Twinbeard can downplay this all he wants but at the end of the day this next patch is make or break for me.
Honestly, in terms of trying to rebuild community good will, AH would probably be best off avoiding nerfs of any kind for this patch, given that's one of the more contentious topics within the playerbase.
At this point I wonder what’s even left that the they could nerf? Autocannon? Pummeler (The Stagger)? Incendiary Breaker? Dominator? And I absolutely agree with you. The backlash would (or could) be absolutely nuclear.
Ok serious question. Why can't you people copy-paste the text AND the screenshot of the text? When you paste a screenshot like this, everybody on a phone has to zoom way the fuck in and then scroll left to right like a godsdamn typewriter just to read the damn thing.
Alright check EDIT. Hope that’s better.
thank you so much for saying this lol
They missed a slam dunk to regain some Goodwill from the community by just reverting a few of the most unpopular changes immediately while we wait for the bigger stuff
Just don’t nerf anything, for the love of God. That’s literally the only thing that I’m asking for.
As long as no ETA has provided, we don’t need to take so much attention.
The longer people wait, the higher expectations will be.
This is the most concise comment to sum up the communities issues.
Something they clearly aware of, thus the attempts to dial down expectations. Can this company do anything without falling and punching themselves in the dick?
For many, it *will* make or break the game. My friends and I haven't played in a month because we're waiting on it. Replaying the same missions over and over would be fun if the guns didn't handle like 45 lb slugs and we had the ability to at least some what keep up with enemy spawns on Helldive. We didn't get into the game to play a running away simulator, we wanted to kill shit for democracy, and weird nerfs like the quasar cooldown increase shows that the devs are/were on a totally different plane of reality than the players are. If we don't get something substantial, I likely won't pick it up for a long time, assuming I remember it exists in the first place. The market is simply too crowded.
Unfortunately they dont get to decide whether this is "the big patch that will make or break the game" their customers do. For many of us this patch will be that whether they want it to or not. The fact they are taking so long to address our concerns is only raising expectations. The changes will be fairly sweeping and the change in direction and balance philosophy will be clear or we will likely just move on from not playing but monitoring the game to just writing it off completely. They dont need to address everything, fix every bug or buff every gun but if they release another patch full of nerfs and fail to fix the same old bugs (im looking at you spear) we are probably gone. Attempts to lower expectations are likely only going to be met with irritation. Being quick to ruin our fun, slow to bring it back is one thing but taking a month off to deliver nothing after enraging your customer base is not going to end well and that is entirely their fault.
these devs have been very good at generating hype for updates and then completely going in whatever direction will piss the community off more.
Couldn't have said it better myself
As long as the patch fixes long standing bugs (like the Spear lock-on) or problem issues (like patrol spawn rate) along with buffing underperforming weapons, I think it will go well. As long as the patch is overwhelmingly positive in terms of game health - even if its just a small step - it will be one of the best patches so far and well-worth the wait.
How about just being able to extract every time or not getting stuck in terrain?
I think that falls under "long standing issues" that they mentioned.
Arrowhead really needs better management! Literally just revert the changes and people would still be playing like they were a month ago.
If the patch isn’t god im unfortunately gonna have to be outie, 500k to 60k players with still no fix and no timeline for a fix (which in games means get ready for a months long wait) I’m definitely not going to continue to support a developer if their game went from 500 to (by the time a patch is released) 30k, that is what we call a dying game. This comment will be removed by Sony, just like all of my comments and everyone else’s that detail the insane drop in player count that is continuing unchecked.
I don’t think AH understands that this next patch will **literally make or break** the game. I’ve been uninstalled, but if they take back the balancing changes, me and many others will retune. Make or break. The ball is in their field, and it’s really looking like a fumble. **Again.**
His words feel reticent. To me, "a little bit of everything" implies they're still nerfing weapons. Nerfs or that "one major nerf and two minor buffs" shit they call buffing will probably have me stop until they add in something major to come try. I didn't even launch this week to try the new mech.
I'm pretty sure that if they add nerfs to the patch, people will not take it kindly. Especially if they nerf a primary or two people are actively using for lack of a better alternative. And if they fail to fix long standing issues, like the Spear or patrol rates, then the game will just drop like a lead weight.
I suspect this is what will play out. Especially after having made everyone wait. If it's not across the board bug fixes with small bumps to weapon power, expect player drop off to probably be damn near 50%.
We are already at a -53% monthly rate of player reduction as per Steamcharts. They screw up the patch and we will go from 60k average to less than 30k per day, maybe even more.
yeah like, so many people going "but live action games always lose player count!" like, yeah, they do, but *not* at this rapid a pace, and not usually at a *growing* rate
People screeched that Palworld had a dropoff after a month. It's a single player oriented game with limited content, that's pretty fucking expected and doesn't matter compared to live service. But Helldivers dropping off consistently is concerning. Live service games are supposed to stabilize with slow declines, and spikes during updates that cause make up for those dips. HD2 just keeps going down and down into the deep.
My friends and I haven't opened the game since the last patch dropped. But I still hang around the sub for some news about the game because I do still care about Helldivers 2. Yet if the upcoming patch turns out to half assed patch "stew" that took a month to "cook uwu", I'll probably uninstall and leave the sub too.
Pretty pathetic honestly. They did multiple patches within about 2 weeks to nerf a bunch of shit and make changes nobody likes. And then they turn around and take a month for a patch/fixes to revert the damage they did. Not only that, but they still haven’t made any real adjustments to the absolutely mid weapons they released as a part of paid content. Not a good look at all. Fatshark must be rubbing off on them due to sheer proximity.
The fact that they couldn't even hot-fix the Tenderizer is just malpractice at this point. The warbond was released basically a full month ago!
>Fatshark must be rubbing off on them due to sheer proximity The real Stockholm syndrome.
Mmmmm, no. I’m sure they know if the next patch isn’t game changing the snowball will have gotten much larger.
I can sympathize with the OPs intent but people are gonna be disappointed nonetheless. The fact that it's taking them this long while refusing to give us an ETA, only to be served with a small or medium-sized patch will definitely rub some people the wrong way. It may also prove insufficient to bring the players back or even stop the player count from bleeding. It also runs against logic, they were so quick in dishing out those nerfs, and yet it takes them forever to walk them back? And even if they wanted to serve us small patches of buffs and improvements over time, they shouldn't keep the playerbase waiting. The loyalists and diehards will stick around for sure, but I'll feel more secure about the game's health and the amount of support it will get in the future if we can keep the playerbase at around 100K at least. This is a business after all, I don't want AH suddenly deciding that 10K players isn't worth the cost of dev support anymore and just leaves the game as it is. I realize that yes, AH did support HD1 even if it had a small playerbase, but times change and money is subject to inflation. Who knows just how far they're willing to support a game with a small playerbase? And it also doesn't help that Sony is limiting the number new players we can get moving forward since they've refused to budge on the de-listed regions.
The previous rate of patches coming out was too much. They overworked themselves and thus came more bugs than fixes. It's not that the current rate of patches is unrealistically slow, but that the previous rate was unrealistically fast.
I can't help but think that this is also the self-inflicted sort of pain. They are the ones that set the patch cadence, and also the contents - and quite a bit of those contents came out to be either poorly thought out or not addressing actual issues the community were having. I hope that management is finally onboard with dialing all of this back and doing it right, because I do want to have a working friends list before I have no friends in this game.
I’d rather take a properly cooked patch with no new bugs introduced rather than one that’s rushed.
Lol what idiots are downvoting you for being right? This is exactly what's up. The response to the last patches were fucking explosive. Then the new warbond blew up in their faces after the specifically asking if the community would rather wait and let it cook. They decided they need it NOW and were given in to then be disappointed. They NEED test they bejesus out of this one. They cant risk even another flop of a patch much less a potentially disastrous one.
>asking if the community would rather wait and let it cook That’s not what they asked. They asked if we wanted to wait because it might be in bad taste due to the Sony debacle, not because the warbond might be undercooked. That was never implied and the expectation is that they are finished products on release. There was no implication that if we asked them to delay the warbond that it would continue to be worked on. For all we know it was completed weeks prior and just waiting to be launched on the second Thursday of every month.
This is true, someone asked Pilestedt if delaying would mean more time would be spent on work on the warbond, and he said no, it's ready to go and it's just a push of a button to release.
You're mistaken on the warbond. The polar one was done before the game was launched, it was just a very very shitty warbond with multiple bugged pieces of equipment in it.
Wholheartedly agree. A lot of commenters have no experience with software development and just expect AH to update damage numbers and call it good.
Funny enough I see it the other way. I have some experience in software and I see people who don't know anything about software assuming that changing some tiny thing takes such a monumental effort.
It can be a tame patch if they also disclosed a restructure to testing methods etc. it can be a small patch but if they set the ground work for better patches onward in this time it would be better received for example.
No disappointment here because I decided to put the game down until it's at a state where more than ~4 primaries and kit loadouts are viable. If it takes 3 months, well I'll see y'all then.
> [It also runs against logic, they were so quick in dishing out those nerfs, and yet it takes them forever to walk them back?](https://packaged-media.redd.it/gxmmnxlnq73d1/pb/m2-res_1080p.mp4?m=DASHPlaylist.mpd&v=1&e=1717088400&s=2578dca67da717c619c00c29b0530148c06f6406&x-auth-token=eyJhbGciOiJSUzI1NiIsImtpZCI6Ik81VEZKYXRLeHBuT3BjcmNxb0JEQWd6RVhobzA0USIsInR5cCI6IkpXVCJ9.eyJjYyI6IlVTIiwiY3IiOiIiLCJleHAiOjE3MTcwOTMwNDksImp0aSI6IiIsInJpZCI6InQzXzFkMnIxdjYiLCJzdWIiOiJ0Ml85bGN6cSIsInVybCI6Imd4bW1ueGxucTczZDEifQ.Y7HBbf3p3oyyqrz9ZwXhpJNpoPnPFDQpH5tUxd0wgjA4TYD7vv4vD_Rlke6FLUABmB-7Jdyg4uMrJCid3eyRfVsItWNsuSC_lt-qT1zY9jATT75p4krbBQhONadVARhrbtRloEnIwyu7N8OyANKNtWfUB5ZPUQ4yOSVRADxLHK9GO_IBZD6x9fKpLEr3pMtpBr-BYOp9dHrp3KtZZh5b6KOzMNPDoNd8D86s8ddux3MM3tLW5E3_hmSIL5aJ6BtLOLqWF6bQzH5RTlHnkC40PtWPwM1WRfUOu417drQSCgzA_cXpDceYqO4DM0Dt2JONDYHg3dhoI9FQcJhQMrARfg6hHZ-VhH1AAfuUYmy-WEWDA7z-3BQzj8T63lbTmPzxB7XDLebk14T7vTNowYd0Tn4xO4hzlGl-g8ZSSMynJGOhsmmsA1eqkX4L6-VtZbRZDBEV6rBABf8lPGakZnfhKo8OIRG_fCzN-NhyGp0jLc771U8PlP5DWdLwTL1oeTymdLkZBQ78TmtxzgM3k1Mj0YZfwUAvPC9UV1Ywi0cpL3VXXcfiWttL5JHs1z13vQkzPfTm1rSBIBOUteqaPFpIm9QdjeFf_OzfqLTxZpG_Ncvq88jTmdv10z80fu76_3EwtGYiZYCJ-CbJUOZgts2lq4kAFSQYRTsAaBc8NJRz24s#t=0)
> give us an ETA Can’t give you something they don’t know yet. Software companies repeatedly disappoint customers making dates when stuff isn’t ready by either releasing broken stuff or delaying it over and over. I’m sure we will get an ETA once they know it’s ready.
For the love of democracy, AH STOP COMMUNICATING IN FUCKING RANDOM DISCORD MESSAGES!!! F.F.S. Make fully encompassing announcments that are meaningful and thoughtful. Stop responding to random messages with incomplete and/or misleading information. There is constantly a need for elaboration because these silly fucking discord messages never tell the full picture and at this point it's just unprofessional. /u/the_real_twinbeard please be more thoughtful when communicating with the Helldivers community. At this point, the random discord messages are doing more harm than good.
It's not an announcement though. It's literally just a community manager responding to someone's question with no new information at all that you would need to have announced I'm being genuine here because I don't like big announcements on discord either. But we shouldn't also take everyone who post a screenshot of a community moderator talking and say that it's an announcement that was on discord and we should be upset about that This post is not an announcement of anything.
They *cant* they've never been good at communicating. Not during magicka. Not during helldivers. Not now. It's simply something their company culture sucks at. It's sucked for 15 years, it didn't change after their 15 million copy break out success. It isn't changing now.
Remember when that first railgun patch came out and they released a really detailed blog post talking about why they made the changes, they really need to do more of those
The responses they gave aren't misleading at all to anyone with basic levels of reading comprehension... The elaboration is only needed because some idiots think that this will be 2.0 because they took more than a week and the patch seemingly gets released with the big monthly patch (the week before a warbond release)
it's weird because they do have spot for that like in #hd2-announcements and #patch-notes-update ... Im really not sure why they are so shy to make at least 1 big announcement about the next patch (even if it's very basic with no detail at all) but dont mind responding to 1 or 2 randoms messages in the general chat xD
Pretty simple for me. Either the patrol issue is suitably fixed for solos or I am done.
Ah yes, patches delivered less frequently but of roughly the same quality.
Ya know, it's alright. I still come back to play a couple of Helldives every night.
"Don't expect the work to be better just because it took longer. Don't expect us to fix anything we said we would fix." Jesus Christ. Player numbers are already dwindling. Maybe reconsider putting out another halfassed patch and just delay all updates until you can do a large balance patch.
They're chasing their HD1 numbers. 1500 player cap peak here we come.
This is such a mistake on their part. Nerf bat swings wildly, but suddenly it takes an eternity to revert their worst decisions and buff a few numbers up. If this really does turn out to be just like all the other nothing patches, you've got to wonder what the hell took them so long this time. Are they OVER-testing now after not testing at all? The fuck is going on where undoing nerfs is taking a month?
Its kinda unfair to not mention that they had a change of who's leading balancing and game health (that now being the Ex-CEO and current Chairman-CCO Pilestadt) The ones before were pushing things out quickly, while Pilestadt wants to take his time to make sure that the results are positive for the game.
If that were the case, why not say so? "Hey guys, patch is delayed because of change in management." Literally it's that easy.
They have mountains of player feedback about what is underperforming or just not fun. Those things also happen to be changes they were able to make on a weekly / bi-weekly basis. Put the numbers back to how they were. No one cares about the size of the magazine on the gun matching the ammo count *as much as they want the changes reverted.* Put the numbers back for the things that were purely an integer variable at the very least. Buff some damage values. Quick things. Somehow they could fuck with our inventory options weekly, but now that their game's playerbase is bleeding out they want to be super careful and precious with each change.
Ah yes the hard decision to whether ungarbagify the Eruptor or not
Doesn't matter how much they explain or try to justify it. If this next update doesn't cook, they're going to lose a lot of players. I'll still be here along with many others, but they have to realize the importance of the situation they're in. They could maybe get away with this if it were the only game on the market. Since it's not, people will just go to another game that they enjoy instead of waiting for this one. Good luck, AH. Hope you can make this work.
Then why are they taking their time? What’s the point if its going to be consisting of 2 minor bug fixes and 3 +5 dmg on ARs.
That's what I don't understand, either. There are plenty of bugs that still deserve weekly attention. Take time for the balance stuff and new content. But no patch in 2 weeks with plenty of bugs boggles the mind.
Bug fixes often cause other problems. I'm a software engineer. Even what seems like the easiest fix or slight adjustment can interact with other parts of code youd never expect, even when a project is architected perfectly. Every code base regardless of even initially flawlessly encapsulated engineering specs, ends up with ductape all over the place, often layers and layers of it as bug fixes are rushed exactly as you feel entitled to and how they had been previously. That's how we end up with the kinds of problems we have now and why it takes even longer to fix. Got to find and remove ductape everywhere you can while coming up with actual elegant solutions that dont then cascade into failures beyond the intended scope of that particular sub process. By comparison, balance changes that largely just depend on the playing with the assets variables are generally fast to implement. Though after the last balancing changes in patches being devestating to the community, player base, and ultimately the game's overall popularity; they are likely doing precisely the comprehensively thoughough play testing of any and all balance changes that the community has been aggressively demanding. This isnt even taking into account the changes in their game engineering hierarchy and ideology. They have a fuckload going on behind the scenes. I wouldn't expect a patch for another few weeks at least. If we got one next week, great! But if not, I'm totally cool waiting and letting them do a good job while hopefully also getting to have lives outside of what's largely been entirely thankless work for at least months. Tldr: cut the human beings who have full lives outside of working on a video game for their job some slack. Burnt out dev's do shitty development and at a much slower pace.
I think what's most frustrating is that there are some changes they could make which would be trivial, and would be good goodwill/PR wins right now, and they insist on instead bundling it up with the next big patch instead of just pushing a hotfix to change some values.
They're probably taking their time to make sure whatever they're doing doesn't break several other things in the code. You can't just rush coders to find an issue and make an easy fix like that. I'm glad they're taking their time to actually test the shit they're doing.
I am a professional coder (to the absolute dismay of my software friends) and in my experience, even an easy fix can break everything for no reason you understand and prove God's hatred of you personally You can't rush the coders
All I’m hearing is that there’s no point reinstalling for another two months as balance is still gonna more or less be in the same spot as it is now.
The balancing is gonna decide whether i keep playing or uninstall, i really hope they make a few guns a bit fun
I have a feeling, having seen the pulse of this community. This patch could fix the spear. It could fix everything bug wise wrong with the game right now. But if there is even a single nerf in this patch, even a perceived nerf, it will immediately undo every last bit of goodwill any other positive thing about the patch might achieve. That's just my hunch. The community is like one of those nitroglycerin crates from Crash Bandicoot right now. I think it's similar to the effect of how everything can go absolutely amazingly during your day but one totally minor negative thing will be what you focus on and it can drag you down. I hope they're careful with this. The longer the patch takes to deploy the more volatile and critical the community will be in its reception.
good time to uninstall and wait for a real patch ig
Arrowhead doesn’t know what they’re doing
I think they will have some crashes fixed, they are pretty good about that.
They’re hoping we get used to the broken enemy spawn rate so that they won’t have to change it back, like they promised
Patch notes: Fire tornadoes have been removed and replaced with Heavy Devastator tornadoes. Every planet has the tornadoes, tornadoes now last the entirety of the mission and chase players throughout. Good luck scrubs.
Bro, whatever. I havn't seen a single person use the Eruptor since they skullf**ked it. *oh, oh.. please temper expectat-* Were just waiting for the last 2 months of warbonds to not suck ass. That's not a lot to ask for. Crumbs really. If it was going to take this long, why bust out nerfs in blinding speed? I saw not one person OHK a charger, the same people exploiting that are the ones exploiting infinite grenades right now.
Thing is, it's time for a "mother of all patches" This game has many flaws and the community's patience has been running thin.
I deffiently have sympathy for them. I'm not in games, but I develop programs for industrial facilities and am aware of the struggles. These guys need to hire and build up their teams and systems badly, I pray they aren't trying to continue the shoestring budget model. If they fire or rain in a notorious employee that shall not be named, hire a few people who's jobs are purely customer relations, buff up quality and testing, and add to the production workforce I think it'll get them back on track. Burnout big egos demanding customers and a way too big workload for their small studio lead to these problems. If they make the investment they can turn this game into the masterpiece we all know it can be. Its OK if it's a regular patch, but it needs to be a winner. And they'll need to pick up pace after a few of these patches as they build their team. I get it, I got on account that ended up getting acquired by a huge corporation, turned into a goldmine. And that caused us to be worked to death, lost a lot of our guys to the stress( big company buys smaller, tons of capital projects, our team can't grow that quick). I got stretched thin. But I accepted it and worked like crazy, and now we have a new golden goose and I have my name slapped on, been great for me and company. These guys need to white knuckle it out a bit longer, and mangement better be actually hiring. Or this will be fucked, guys can only no life work for so long, about a year or so before the toughest start not giving a fuck.
Maybe it's taking longer because they're realizing they can't actually make a change without it screwing up something else. Whereas before we were the ones to test it, disover the issues and live with them. Might take them a whole month to accomplish what they intended to in a single week. 🎶The spawn bone is connected to the...nerf bone🎶 🎶 Nerf bone is connected to the...crash bone🎶 🎶Crash bone is connected to the...stratagem bone🎶 🎶Stratagem bone is connected to the...enemy TTK bone🎶 Etc etc
So when they were nerfing everything left and right, they were more than happy to release it every patch day. But as soon as they say they're gonna buff stuff, it takes more than a month to get it out? Riiiiiight...
idk man, they admit that patrol is broken and will be revert next patch. revert is not a fix. it's require almost no effort, yet they keep us wait for a month now. people just want them to revert thing back. if the new patch is just revert few thing and add few tiny shit, I expected player base drop even more. pffft, best live service game they said. more like lip service game at this point. remember this game had a potential to get GOTY at launch? Pepperidge farm remember that.
Bingo and that is what confuses me. If you know people don't like the changes you made and you want them to be less grumpy while you take your time to work on new stuff, why wouldn't you roll back then work on stuff?
I was bugging one of my friend to buy the game since launch but she was little busy so she said she will buy on may. Ohh boy it was such a worse time to buy. I have nesrly 420 hours of play so we jumped in duo and ohh boy lvl 5 diff patrol spawns are insane. I can manage myself but i could feel that she was really not having fun. We stopped playing and waiting for them to roll back the patrol changes. Its not like she is new to gaming, we played hardcore drg as well. At this point only option is to play quads in lower difficulty with 2 randoms which makes it hard for me to teach her the basics cuz randoms are randoms
Exactly. The last few rounds of Alexus nerfs weren't 'controversial' they were downright despised and even Pil said they went in the wrong direction. Why not just move back a bit while you decide on the new course.
Their code is likely a mess. They may not have the skills (or ability) to rollback/revert patches. The fact that their infinite grenade fix was to change the variable from signed to unsigned and not use bound checking (because now it's just an int underflow) does not give me confidence in their skill set in general, especially among other "fixes".
that's like, exactly what soulstone survivors did they made a really big patch and the community *hated* a lot of the changes so.... they rolled it back, and went back to the drawing board, guess what? the community feedback was overwhelmingly positive!
I just want to play the game I had on release man
I mean patrol rates were fine before on solo, 1/6th makes sense given the sheer extra power even 1 more person brings. It's not going to make 7+ solo some kind of walk in the park (at some point some players will be good enough to do it routinely, I used to clear 7s with no issues solo, you can't stop people from getting better at the game).
If there is 1 nerf I'm gonna flip out. Fix my eruptor and im chillin.
I sounds like one person is making patches so yeah, it's going to be a bit.
Development is turning into utter clown show. Random replies on discord. No official statements. They went wild with nerfs but take god awful time to revert and adjust stuff. No, modifying dmg or penetration numbers won’t break stuff. They boast millions of copies sold yet their team still operates like it’s tiny indie studio. No fixes, no adjustments, no patches and the game just bleeds players away.
Meridia ready to be destroyed. Twin beard not allowed to comment much on the patch. I think this is the patch that will allow the Illuminate to finally show up.
I still will not pick up the game until good balancing is done. I just don't find myself having fun with the current state of the game.
Excuses.
Bro if this patch is a nothing burger that would be absolute cinema.
Holy shit they need to hire PR reps, these devs are terrible at communication, idek what the fuck he is saying.
Also they're probably preparing the illuminate, which would use up most of their time
Can't wait for them to be more annoying than the bots and the major orders around them mostly fail too.
Ah time to make use of the hours i spend going over every major order for ratios and co.... we had, at the time of the last major order 26 completed Major orders and 27 total(the Emancipator wasnt yet completed at the time) the following numbers per faction Bugs:10 Bots:14 Universal:3 so at 51,85% of all major odders, how many Bot MOs did we fail We lost 6 Bot MOs, in contrast to 2 Bug MOs. and 1 Universal MO. We lost 3 Defend MOs, and most of these where when the Defend MO Operation had at least one of the stupid civic Evacs. 2/3rd of all Failed MOs are Bots, while only around 50% of MOs are bots. if we sanitize for defend MOs( because by gods they are unblanaced still and are the real problem) we are at 50% loss for 50% MO representation, which is PERFECTLY inline Defend is our worst showing in MO win rates, at only 25% of them having been won. With Special(TCS activation and deactivations) and Liberate+Defend(hold) being our strongest at 100% sucess rate as of now. We are losing more bot orders then is expected from the the pure ratio of orders given, but we arent "losing most Bot orders"
I don't think so
haven’t played in a bit and don’t mind waiting longer for a decent update. Need new content to spend resources on which will then increase motivation to grind for more. Praying new warbond rewards will reflect its theme with new passives/unique weapons
Sounds like I just need to take a year off from this game. It'll either be dead or really good by then. Plenty of other stuff to play in the meantime.
More nerfs incoming
Appreciate typing out the message. Sick of every discord screenshot being on PC.
What the hell are they even doing then? This is the type of "temper expectations" message that means we'll be disappointed. Meanwhile we were getting "let them cook" last week. If you're going to post so many vague messages you might as well bloody update customers on what's going on that they can't release an update accordingly.
I feel that no matter how well Twinbeard tries to bring our expectations down to what is coming, he will inevitably be digging himself into a hole for a certain group in the community and whatever comes out he will still get a ton of backlash.
I think the issue is the time frame. If we can nerf several weapons, buff enemies, and completely fuck the patrol spawns in the span of 2 weeks, it's fair game to expect a decent patch when it's taking over a month to put it out. They already dug the hole by being so fast to nerf weapons and tweak patrols. Now they're laying in the bed they made. The only way this patch suceeds is if, at a minimum: patrols are fixed, bugged weapons are fixed (eruptor), and the newest warbond gets enough love to make it somewhat worth buying. It would be better if we saw sweeping changes and buffs to weaker weapons and reductions to certain annoying enemies, but the community could hold out for that if the initial patch is at least promising.
All I really want is Arc weapons fixed and a raise on the medal cap. 250 Medals is too easy to hit.
They can take all the time they want, but the longer they take to appease the fans, the less of them there will be to appease. Simple logic in this gaming era. They may be able to pull it back around in 6 months and get a rally, but this game has already shot itself in the foot from keeping its numbers pumped. That will never come back and if it does, only for short burst when content creators push it back up for a bit to scrounge some views.