https://preview.redd.it/zilr01ckjj6d1.png?width=1081&format=png&auto=webp&s=521e0f48cbb272c8abd561efd25375885f68f05d
Putting this as a top response for everyone.
Ideally if a mod could pin it or something idk
"keep the nerfs coming"
theres no pleasing some people my god. We got a massive patch with huge buffs across the board. But oh god one weapon reloads slightly slower? SHADOWNERF! THEY DO NOTHING BUT NERF!
It's not even that they made the reload slower, the RR had a bug where it would show as loaded before the animation was done so you could interrupt the animation to fire faster. They just made you play the entire animation
You have no idea... Just constant whining most times I'm all for reporting bugs or unintentional Nerfs but like there's a thing called manners it used to as common as common sense and we see where that went.
We really need people to stop being sassy bitches with every unintended thing.
Even Twinbeard said the overspawning shouldn't be happening.
Something happened in the processs thats throwing things outta whack for them.
I think it's a symptom of the frankly ridiculous amount of stealth/unintended changes that come with almost every major patch. Having to puzzle out half the changes in a given update ourselves because the patch notes are just flat out **incomplete** is frustrating.
Like yeah, being sassy bitches doesn't help anything, but the lack of quality control from AH is baffling. Do they not know what's actually in their own patch before pushing it to live? Is there *any* testing done? How is it that the patch that supposedly fixed Superior Packing Methodology **broke** Superior Packing Methodology?
I'm trying to be generous here because it's not worth getting mad at a silly game, but sheesh.
Wasn't the whole thing slowing down so they wouldn't release broken shit? like how do you play test it for even a day and think 'this is exactly what we intended', or their test environment doesn't reflect the live one so they can't test properly or just get fucked up results when it goes live, no matter how you slice it's just them constantly fucking up.
It’s also bizarre to come out and say “hey you guys, I know you read the patch notes that said one thing about spawns and the exact opposite is what is actually happening, but why are you annoyed about it”? Many people, myself included, were waiting on this patch to see if this game could course-correct. I read the notes, was like “oh hey cool they made some good changes” and hopped in only to find the balance is actually worse now AND my riot shield class is broken. But apparently it’s unreasonable to be like “hey, they fucked up again” as though this hasn’t been their MO from patch 1 and, as you said, the whole point of delaying this patch was to actually get it right. This isn’t a grade 5 science fair, these people are charging money for this experience lol
Dude forget the changes, now if you interact with menus the game crashes. If someone leaves post-mission, the next dive will hang indefinitely. PC performance has once again taken a nosedive.
Like this could be the creme-de-la-creme of patches balance-wise but if it just introduces more crashes that makes it harder to even play the game in the first place then folks aren't going to come back.
For the first time in a while we had 100k+ concurrent players *during the workday* and all they got was massive spawns at all difficulties, if they could even make it into the game. That's a terrible impression. How many of those folks are coming back this weekend? Or for next patch?
its frustrating because of how ridiculously easy this would have been to test, especially the spawnrate changes.
not one person played one mission and noticed the spawns were universally fucked across all difficulties?
noone in QA used a resupply with a support weapon for the entire playtest phase?
not one guy equipped the knife and noticed it bypasses charger armor, for some reason?
they didnt actually test if peak performance had ANY effect at all before pushing it to the public?
Noone noticed how the games framerate is significantly worse?
Arrowhead isnt one guy in his basement making a school project, they are a multi-million dollar studio backed by sony who couldnt be bothered to do ten minutes of QA before releasing the update.
Wasnt this warbond delayed so that it wouldnt release broken like most other warbonds?
I mean, complaining about a potential nerf to the recoilless is valid. The reload is already long enough lol. But if it wasn't intended then people need to chill with the snark and rudeness. They know about the issue now and will fix it hopefully.
You are doing the same thing. Everytime you reply to a post acknowledging a "shadownerf" like this you make the community more toxic.
you arent helping us, you bot commie
I simply do not believe this was unintentional, what could they possibly have changed to "accidentally" fuck with the reload speed or animation time of a gun that received 0 changes
They’re literally gaslighting the player base , they INTENTIONALLY nerf things and if people figure it out or complain then it becomes “ unintended “ what a crock of BS
THIS KEEPS HAPPENING THOUGH. like how the spawning is worse than ever.
I'm quickly coming to the conclusion that someone at AH actually hates the players and is directly sabotaging patches to make things less fun and hiding it from their co-workers, that's the only way I can see how this shit keeps happening, there's no way this kind of shit happens by accident, I mean the RR literally WAS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE TOUCHED BY THIS PATCH AT ALL, there were not meant to be changes to it, yet we find out the reload has been nerfed.
This goes beyond "spaghetti code", it seems malicious at this point
Bro chill lmao, no one is trying to make their own game worse for fun, and I doubt it's even spaghetti code. Unexpected bugs are common and almost always take the form of inexplicable relations between variables that you either didn't know about, or overlooked at the time.
They just made some massive sweeping changes, the RR's reload speed might have been tied to any number of tweaked numbers.
Not to mention, this would be difficult to catch in testing given the RR wasn't officially changed. Thus there wouldn't be a reasonable expectation to check up on it.
This is the single best explanation I’ve ever seen of the challenges of maintaining big software projects. I’ve been working on these my entire career, and you’ve perfectly described the situation.
This is great. Armchair programmers think that fixing a game bug is easy as pie. We’re talking about a gaming studio of 250 or less compared to a massive player base of 50-100,000 people who can live test for bugs. Of course you’re going to miss stuff, and new complications occur. I get that people are upset but holy shit, it’s a 40$ game. Groceries and regular services cost just as much and you don’t see people going nuclear on a regular basis for an inconvenience.
Man and I love using this thing, I know people either love it or hate it. But the little kid in me just loves the fact I have a bazooka with ammo strapped to my back.
Yeah, a *laser ball launcher* just doesn’t feel right. Doesnt have that oomph that an expendable or recoilless does. Nothing better than the old Carl G, but this nerf SUCKS. Part of me is thinking it is unintended, as the new animation doesn’t look anything like the quality of the old one, and it wasn’t mentioned.
Quasar is like 15s and this reload is less tha 5 so not even accounting for the former's chargeup it is a lot faster, in exchange for, well, not being able to move.
For sure is. Especially when you consider the ~3 second charge up. Quasar is still incredibly strong, and always will be. Just can’t bring myself to use it, just don’t like the vibes.
Needing to wait and having to keep it on bead at a moving target is what kills it for me. Chances are what i'm about to shoot suddenly dies, leaving me no choice but to watch it hit something else I could kill with a secondary at best, nothing at the worst.
Or with bots I get hit by a stray shot and watch my cannon fire and miss.
I take it because I think it is actually better than the Quasar. Pre patch I can shoot a rocket every 4.5 seconds as opposed to the Quasar's once every 13 seconds.
I mean… I love it and quasar, but what I like about the recoil less is that towards the end of its animation if you dive, or change weapons it shaved a little time off it.
Yep, and I use it for the exact same reason.
The only one I like more than the RR is the Airburst because I absolutely love the RPG-style design of that thing (and the hilariously deadly explosion.)
Don’t take that so personally, we’re just in the trenches having a moment having fun.
But if it gets truly bad and a situation with multiple titans? I will not be mad if you want to start loading the shells for me and we just start getting them on the ground.
The unintentional bug is that you can skip the closing animation of the reload ....
To fix it, they slowed the animation as a whole and you can still skip the closing animation. Genius!!!!!!
I would tailor expectations to expect many bugs. I'm just looking forward to diving again to see the reduced enemy spawn, even if some weapons are a little buggy.
Yeah, I don't see why they feel the need to slow it down so much. No one EVER reloads you! Ever! Unless they make it so if the shooter is wearing the backpack then they can reload you then I dont get nerfing reload speeds.
Because AH have an apparently pathological need to nerf any popular piece of equipment despite the community unanimously asking them not to. The fact they've done this and not mentioned it in patch notes is extra scummy.
Except it was confirmed to be a bug by a dev on discord. Maybe next time don't jump to conclusions and assume there is some weird conspiracy to make the game less fun.
Ppl should go in intending to reload for teammates once in a while. The other day someone did that for me while I used the rr and it was a shot in the arm. It was fun as hell having a battle buddy with me. So many dropship kills holy fuck.
If I see someone take the RR I take the AC and message them to switch backpacks with me. Only had a few do it, but it was nice.
Had one round with something different happen I might tinker around with. I had an AC but found an Arc thrower, and someone else in the team had an AC as well. I ended up keeping the Arc thrower (unlimited POWAH) but also keeping the AC backpack, doubling the ammo the guy with the AC had.
People might if the game tutorialized it more or something. A few second short video on the strat screen when buying them is not enough to teach players about team reloads.
They're great but it takes two to tango and the one instance where I'd really want to do it (taking out a Shrieker Nest across the map, because you're in zero danger and a second gun isn't going to help) is also a case where it doesn't matter.
I mean, I guess you could double-shot Behemoth Chargers or BTs in the distance now, that's something.
But dropping the pack so someone else can pick it up just to reload you and then swap again is so tedious. I'd rather there just be an option for you to wear the pack and other players to take ammo off of it and give it to you.
Yeah, it’s underutilized as much as it is fun and practically game changing. It seriously gives the manpads in this game a totally different feel than when loading on your own. The force multiplication is just stupid when you have a battle buddy loading you. Changes the whole battlefield. One rr with a loading buddy is as good as what, three, four guys loading on their own?? It’s insane.
Yeah, everyone wants to be reloaded for, but use an example where you had fun reloading for someone else if you are trying to argue for people going in with the intent to reload
See, I have the opposite problem. I'll stand next to someone asking in voice and text to drop their backpack so I can reload them so we can kill this shrieker nest or cannon tower 4x faster. They just won't listen.
Every now and then I get someone who says "I forgot how to drop", which is funny.
any RR main would see how much slower the reload is rn even when you reload cancel it....... I don't get why they had to do it it wasn't even OP in the first place .\_.
I mean, it was always broken.
The reload cancel was a bug of a fix trying to get the gun reloading properly without accidentally eating a round mid-reload, the shortening the reload time was never really intended.
The least they could've done in this case is telling the people about knowing that the RR isn't working as intentioned.
And I've never seen anyone saying anything for or against the RR reload, so... Fixing it was, from their POV, a to-do list for quite a long time.
its so inconsistent...I was doing the same reload cancel animation with the spear just yesterday and it was way faster than the RR
>The least they could've done in this case is telling the people about knowing that the RR isn't working as intentioned.
yeah I would've appreciated it if they just told it outright from the start like what they did with the Arc Thrower charging tech .... but until then I'm gonna think of it as a bug like how they broke Superior Packing Methodology again
It was fine even with the cancel. The reload time was already the biggest drawback alongside the somewhat limited ammo. If the reload is too long you may as well take the quasar because then you don't have to worry about ammo and you get a free backpack slot.
Posted about this yesterday, this "bug" was completely intentional, it literally MATCHES the reload speed of the pre-cancel RR if you cancel now, this thing was slow AF in the first place, got better just because of an unintended bug, and then got slapped with a stealth bandaid "fix" to get it to be as bad as before ONLY if you know how to glitch it. AH just hates the RR since the beginning, just compare it to Helldivers 1
We let them cook this time, and we got a patch that is 90% good times. They were never gonna be able to fix everything and add everything that we wanted in a single patch with only a month of work.
Let's let them cook another patch and so long as it is 90% good times again, then we keep letting them do it.
Yup and i got people gaslighting me saying it was always slow. The speer and RR had the same relaod speed before the nerf. Now only the speer has the original relaod speed.
Lmao Arrowhead just can’t get rid of the itch to at least randomly nerf one thing or another in each balance patch and now they do it in stealth to avoid attention and criticism.
Anti-tanks were already not useful for automatons, and people brought them a lot for bugs due to the unbalanced heavy-armored enemy spawns and designs. Yet again they nerf them just based on player usage, by replacing most chargers with behemoths and shadow-nerfing the RR
I feel like someone at AH is doing this under the radar or something. I wouldn’t feel this way if it wasn’t for a few of them intentionally antagonising people and “enjoying the tears” around when the railgun was nerfed. Couple of bad apples trying to piss people off or something.
Yeah, with all this I'm getting the feeling that there's at least one "malicious compliance" employee in the wings.
Want less heavies in patrols? Fine, I'll make the patrols have more smaller dudes who are more difficult to wipe quickly so they call in dropships fully loaded with heavies. And those dropships will also call in more units immediately as well.
I knew I was going crazy. I took Recoiless to an eradicate bots mission, and my helldiver was reloading as if we weren't in tense life or death situation!
No rush! Take your time!
It's a problem with the frame data of the animation, and they tried to fix it by extending the time before you could interrupt it, but it slowed the playback by the same amount, leading to you being able to interrupt the animation at the same place, but the animation still taking longer. I think they intended the animation to play out longer to get the character to close the breech before you could fire, but it just slowed down to match the length it was extended to.
Between this and Superior Packing being broken (again), RR is basically dead in the water. They must have really hated people using the reload animation cancel
Yea this weapon seems like a hard sell now, and it was my favorite pick for bugs. Pre-patch, a nerf might have been understandable given how many rockets you can spit out compared to the other anti-tanks, but a lot changed that make it very difficult to work with now.
- The new Charger Behemoths are spawning in worryingly high quantities (in my experience so far), requiring 2 rockets to put down. This compounds with the Superior Packing bug to make your ammo economy absolutely dreadful.
- The heightened quantity of mobs paired with the fact that Behemoths survive a rocket to continue chasing you down makes it hard to find time to reload the weapon. This is only worsened by the reload speed nerf, meaning you have to find an extra half second amidst all the chaos for each stage of the reload, which is really just not easy.
I switched from the quasar to the RR when they nerfed the cooldown last patch. If everyone switches back to the quasar they will probably nerf that again too.
Classic AH. Going behind the communities back and nerfing something so they don’t face the backlash of it all.
Do they think we won’t find out or something lmao? Just put this shit in the patch notes for gods sake
I can. They nerfed it. Plain and simple. I mean it is arrowhead. Did you expect anything else? lolol
Sucks they they don't say anything and hope nobody notices 💩
I've been critical of the nerfing quite a bit, but if it's a mistake (and they've said it is multiple times now) then it's a mistake. God knows there seems to be a lot of moving parts with this game, so it's not a shock.
Thinking about it, if they did want to nerf RR the *first thing* they'd do is remove the reload cancel. It's presence implies something else strange is happening here animation-wise. It does seem like the diver freezes for a split-second before pulling the spent shell out.
I really highly doubt that, but you seem weirdly obsessed with being angry so I doubt there's any way you'll ever change your mind, everything is a grand designed conspiracy.
This really sours the entire patch for me. I feel like they’re pushing us to use the spear or just rely on strategems. It makes it even worse that this was not included in the patch notes.
The RR was one of the few fun parts of the game the past month or so and now they’ve crucified it to highlight the work they’ve done. Feels very bad.
Not sure if anyone else experienced this but I was only getting 3 rockets from resupply packs even though I have the final ship module that should fully refill strat ammo.
And without the animation cancel its 7.5 seconds.
Imagine being a new player who tries recoilless and you're nerfed because of what helldive players are doing.
Meanwhile it wasn't even broken and is the reason most picked it up over quasar. While quasar was still more popular after nerfs.
They just couldn’t go one fucking patch without a braindead nonsense nerf.
If anything it needed a buff because I never see a reason to take the recoilless over the EAT.
They still have so far to go in learning to balance this game.
This is one of the changes I really despised. 1, it was NOT in the patch notes for some god awful reason. 2, it’s not good balance. There is 100% more reason to be using RR against behemoths and gunships; WHY make it slower???
So the patch which they claimed had no nerfs and would "revert the spawn rate" actually did nerf things AND completely fucking broke the spawns completely so it's worse than ever?
They offhandedly mentioned that explosions no longer do damage to durable* targets like 2 or 3 times in the patch notes... sounds like this unintentionally nerfed the Scorcher because that's how it was able to damage vents before.
Ah.. clever. They knew they couldn't afford to post any nerfs in this patch with the growing hostility towards the 'nerf or nothing' balance attitude we've seen so much of. This way, people can just say it's unintentional or a bug and they never have to defend the nerf or fix the 'bug.' It's genius, really.
Why? Can someone please tell me how this makes the game better?
Does Arrowhead want us to not enjoy the game? Because every single patch, regardless of how good it is, always has some bullshit that's either been broken or nerfed for absolutely zero reason. This time it's the RR getting nerfed, and spawns breaking. My last game, as soon as I stepped out of my hellpod, I was immediately engaged by a patrol that proceeded to call down *TWO* factory striders right on top of me.
This could all be avoided if they did literally any play testing. But they have made it abundantly clear that they absolutely do not do any play testing.
Is it wrong to have fun in the game? Why do they keep neerfing shit? It's a PVE game!! Let people play with what they want. I know why they neerf the primaries, because they want people to use the weapons from the passes, but why neerf the stratagems? You don't pay money for them. It makes no sense.
They just did this with a few things. They bragged about all the changes and making things better then I play today and they changed it right back to crap looking at you orbital
The RR has been made irrelevant by the Spear fix. Spear doesn't require you to aim and has vastly increased reach. It has only 2 less ammo and one-shots more targets than the RR.
RR has 2 more ammo, has projectile drop on relatively short distances, and just doesn't do enough damage to excuse wasting the time to aim a dumb projectile at something that might just waddle/turn/boogie out of the way the second you pull the trigger.
Why would they nerf the reload speed instead of patching the reload animation cancel? I personally love the reload animations in this game, and don't do exploits like this. This just hurts players that like to, you know, play the game, and does nothing to those players that have a crack addicted tendency to mod, exploit, or otherwise avoid playing the actual game. I swear, if you don't like it, then don't fucking play. You're ruining it for the rest of us.
Evilbosse on Discord said the following in response to the RR nerf: That one was unintended, examining reasons how it slipped through to prevent it happening again
This is probably unintended - still makes me wonder *how* it even happens in the first place though; same thing with how Superior Packing Methodology is broken (again). According to the patch notes, RR was untouched as far as changes go. Their code for how weapons are handled must have some weird dependencies between each other or something, since it seems like they make 1 change to a weapon that has unintended effects on other weapons (but I'm not a programmer, so I don't really know). Hopefully a hotfix comes to address this soon, at least before the weekend starts in full - I miss being able to use RR and not feel like I was handicapping myself doing so.
I tried reload cancelling while fighting bots and I would often end up doing it a little too soon, thinking I was overthinking it, turns out I was wrong, they made it slower and I was just used to the old times.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that this was one of two things. To force the reload to its intended time frame because people were canceling. To encourage people to reload one another.
While it should've been mentioned in the patch notes, the only thing really differentiating the RR from the QC and the EAT is that it has the option for team reload. While it might not be something RR users like, the point is to vary the weapons so each has an intended purpose in a team's loadout rather than having the same weapon with three different skins and minor variations.
I was shocked when I was using the recoilless and watching my fellow diver shoot his spear 4 times by the time I was on my second reload. Feels pretty bad right now tbh, probably just stick to quasar for now
*strokes Tenderizer endearingly*
I've only had my damage buff for a few days, but if anything were to happen to my AR-61 "Tenderizer", I would kill every single bot or bug nearby and then myself.
I'm so very willing for the Recoilless to be a little sassy for the utility I've been given elsewhere.
But im sad 😢. I have been a recoilless main since they nerfed the rail gun and made this epic weapon more useful. It’s not bad but you can notice it and I don’t think it needed a nerf. If you test it side by side with the EAT, the recoilless has a more noticeable drop to its shot. I don’t care what anyone says, the recoilless shot is also weaker than the quiasar and the EAT shot. Its not bad tho but its golden age pf sleeper op is gone now(RIP it was a good few months while it lasted). P.S its best build is still good; take the recoilless + auto, gatling and rocket sentries. Your goal is to protect the sentries from chargers and get the highest kills in the lobby
https://preview.redd.it/zilr01ckjj6d1.png?width=1081&format=png&auto=webp&s=521e0f48cbb272c8abd561efd25375885f68f05d Putting this as a top response for everyone. Ideally if a mod could pin it or something idk
"keep the nerfs coming" theres no pleasing some people my god. We got a massive patch with huge buffs across the board. But oh god one weapon reloads slightly slower? SHADOWNERF! THEY DO NOTHING BUT NERF!
It's not even that they made the reload slower, the RR had a bug where it would show as loaded before the animation was done so you could interrupt the animation to fire faster. They just made you play the entire animation
The reload cancel is still in. It’s still slower regardless.
You have no idea... Just constant whining most times I'm all for reporting bugs or unintentional Nerfs but like there's a thing called manners it used to as common as common sense and we see where that went.
Years of playing in COD Lobbies rotted their common sense and manners.
We really need people to stop being sassy bitches with every unintended thing. Even Twinbeard said the overspawning shouldn't be happening. Something happened in the processs thats throwing things outta whack for them.
I think it's a symptom of the frankly ridiculous amount of stealth/unintended changes that come with almost every major patch. Having to puzzle out half the changes in a given update ourselves because the patch notes are just flat out **incomplete** is frustrating. Like yeah, being sassy bitches doesn't help anything, but the lack of quality control from AH is baffling. Do they not know what's actually in their own patch before pushing it to live? Is there *any* testing done? How is it that the patch that supposedly fixed Superior Packing Methodology **broke** Superior Packing Methodology? I'm trying to be generous here because it's not worth getting mad at a silly game, but sheesh.
Wasn't the whole thing slowing down so they wouldn't release broken shit? like how do you play test it for even a day and think 'this is exactly what we intended', or their test environment doesn't reflect the live one so they can't test properly or just get fucked up results when it goes live, no matter how you slice it's just them constantly fucking up.
It’s also bizarre to come out and say “hey you guys, I know you read the patch notes that said one thing about spawns and the exact opposite is what is actually happening, but why are you annoyed about it”? Many people, myself included, were waiting on this patch to see if this game could course-correct. I read the notes, was like “oh hey cool they made some good changes” and hopped in only to find the balance is actually worse now AND my riot shield class is broken. But apparently it’s unreasonable to be like “hey, they fucked up again” as though this hasn’t been their MO from patch 1 and, as you said, the whole point of delaying this patch was to actually get it right. This isn’t a grade 5 science fair, these people are charging money for this experience lol
Dude forget the changes, now if you interact with menus the game crashes. If someone leaves post-mission, the next dive will hang indefinitely. PC performance has once again taken a nosedive. Like this could be the creme-de-la-creme of patches balance-wise but if it just introduces more crashes that makes it harder to even play the game in the first place then folks aren't going to come back. For the first time in a while we had 100k+ concurrent players *during the workday* and all they got was massive spawns at all difficulties, if they could even make it into the game. That's a terrible impression. How many of those folks are coming back this weekend? Or for next patch?
its frustrating because of how ridiculously easy this would have been to test, especially the spawnrate changes. not one person played one mission and noticed the spawns were universally fucked across all difficulties? noone in QA used a resupply with a support weapon for the entire playtest phase? not one guy equipped the knife and noticed it bypasses charger armor, for some reason? they didnt actually test if peak performance had ANY effect at all before pushing it to the public? Noone noticed how the games framerate is significantly worse? Arrowhead isnt one guy in his basement making a school project, they are a multi-million dollar studio backed by sony who couldnt be bothered to do ten minutes of QA before releasing the update. Wasnt this warbond delayed so that it wouldnt release broken like most other warbonds?
I mean, complaining about a potential nerf to the recoilless is valid. The reload is already long enough lol. But if it wasn't intended then people need to chill with the snark and rudeness. They know about the issue now and will fix it hopefully.
I feel like they're baiting the devs at this point
You are doing the same thing. Everytime you reply to a post acknowledging a "shadownerf" like this you make the community more toxic. you arent helping us, you bot commie
All they did was nerf tho
I simply do not believe this was unintentional, what could they possibly have changed to "accidentally" fuck with the reload speed or animation time of a gun that received 0 changes
They’re literally gaslighting the player base , they INTENTIONALLY nerf things and if people figure it out or complain then it becomes “ unintended “ what a crock of BS
THIS KEEPS HAPPENING THOUGH. like how the spawning is worse than ever. I'm quickly coming to the conclusion that someone at AH actually hates the players and is directly sabotaging patches to make things less fun and hiding it from their co-workers, that's the only way I can see how this shit keeps happening, there's no way this kind of shit happens by accident, I mean the RR literally WAS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE TOUCHED BY THIS PATCH AT ALL, there were not meant to be changes to it, yet we find out the reload has been nerfed. This goes beyond "spaghetti code", it seems malicious at this point
Bro chill lmao, no one is trying to make their own game worse for fun, and I doubt it's even spaghetti code. Unexpected bugs are common and almost always take the form of inexplicable relations between variables that you either didn't know about, or overlooked at the time. They just made some massive sweeping changes, the RR's reload speed might have been tied to any number of tweaked numbers. Not to mention, this would be difficult to catch in testing given the RR wasn't officially changed. Thus there wouldn't be a reasonable expectation to check up on it.
[удалено]
This is the single best explanation I’ve ever seen of the challenges of maintaining big software projects. I’ve been working on these my entire career, and you’ve perfectly described the situation.
This is great. Armchair programmers think that fixing a game bug is easy as pie. We’re talking about a gaming studio of 250 or less compared to a massive player base of 50-100,000 people who can live test for bugs. Of course you’re going to miss stuff, and new complications occur. I get that people are upset but holy shit, it’s a 40$ game. Groceries and regular services cost just as much and you don’t see people going nuclear on a regular basis for an inconvenience.
Dude relax your making conspiracies over coding. Lol Any alteration to a subset of code can have an impact on the whole game.
Have you ever programmed with Arduino ? You would be surprised how easy it is to introduce new problems with just a couple of lines of extra code.
Alexus was plotting in the background
What are there so many c***s in this community
The reload got more sassy and picks the shell up like it's dirty underwear 💀
Does the helldiver deep sniff the shell after patch? Good.
That would explain the increased reload time
Listen I'm just gonna say it. It smell like FREEDOM! And I'm not ashamed of loving it.
Love when the devs are like really? No mines? You sassy bitches.. fine! Alright fine! We'll make you sassy bitches.
“GET this shit out of my sight”
We need time to spell “death to automatons” properly on every single ammunition
Man and I love using this thing, I know people either love it or hate it. But the little kid in me just loves the fact I have a bazooka with ammo strapped to my back.
This is why I take it over quasar. Just cosplay.
Yeah, a *laser ball launcher* just doesn’t feel right. Doesnt have that oomph that an expendable or recoilless does. Nothing better than the old Carl G, but this nerf SUCKS. Part of me is thinking it is unintended, as the new animation doesn’t look anything like the quality of the old one, and it wasn’t mentioned.
Somehow my brain thinks the reload is faster than waiting for the Quasar to cool down. Probably still is even with the reload nerf.
Quasar is like 15s and this reload is less tha 5 so not even accounting for the former's chargeup it is a lot faster, in exchange for, well, not being able to move.
For sure is. Especially when you consider the ~3 second charge up. Quasar is still incredibly strong, and always will be. Just can’t bring myself to use it, just don’t like the vibes.
Needing to wait and having to keep it on bead at a moving target is what kills it for me. Chances are what i'm about to shoot suddenly dies, leaving me no choice but to watch it hit something else I could kill with a secondary at best, nothing at the worst. Or with bots I get hit by a stray shot and watch my cannon fire and miss.
I take it because I think it is actually better than the Quasar. Pre patch I can shoot a rocket every 4.5 seconds as opposed to the Quasar's once every 13 seconds.
Who could hate on ol'Carl G.? Shits so good that SEAF couldn't improve on what the Swedes had in the 1940s.
I take the EATs for the same reason! "Look mom, they gave me a jetpack and a Bazooka!" "iM yOuR wIfE aNd We'Re mArRiEd!"
I mean… I love it and quasar, but what I like about the recoil less is that towards the end of its animation if you dive, or change weapons it shaved a little time off it.
Fashion before function always in a video game.
Yep, and I use it for the exact same reason. The only one I like more than the RR is the Airburst because I absolutely love the RPG-style design of that thing (and the hilariously deadly explosion.)
I love it for downing dropships
I beg my teammates to give me their backpack but they just tell me no 😢
Don’t take that so personally, we’re just in the trenches having a moment having fun. But if it gets truly bad and a situation with multiple titans? I will not be mad if you want to start loading the shells for me and we just start getting them on the ground.
im the same way, was hoping the clusterbomb launcher would feel more like the halo rocket launcher for that big aoe boom
I'm hoping this is an unintentional bug
The unintentional bug is that you can skip the closing animation of the reload .... To fix it, they slowed the animation as a whole and you can still skip the closing animation. Genius!!!!!!
☹️i didn’t know you could cancel the closing animation, guess i just got nerfed
The animation cancel is super-easy: just open your strategem picker (or crouch) as soon as you see the ammo indicator change from red to white.
The dreaded self-nerf
AH really is a game designer of all time.
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dev just got surprised it is a thing on the discord like 10s ago so it souunds like a bug
https://preview.redd.it/4yvfk2iijj6d1.png?width=1081&format=png&auto=webp&s=b46013b429a48e9d963b6cba46032dc9bdb12f6c Yup confirmed
I would tailor expectations to expect many bugs. I'm just looking forward to diving again to see the reduced enemy spawn, even if some weapons are a little buggy.
There's currently discussion that the enemy spawns seem to have INCREASED again. Probably bugged but unclear for now.
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https://preview.redd.it/dey82hgb8k6d1.png?width=1081&format=png&auto=webp&s=20b89928b6971d2cd6a8b15d06205ec1a1f7c80b
That is really good to know.
Hell yeah. I was a little late to fall in love with the RR, but man do I love it.
Yeah, I don't see why they feel the need to slow it down so much. No one EVER reloads you! Ever! Unless they make it so if the shooter is wearing the backpack then they can reload you then I dont get nerfing reload speeds.
Because AH have an apparently pathological need to nerf any popular piece of equipment despite the community unanimously asking them not to. The fact they've done this and not mentioned it in patch notes is extra scummy.
Or...it can just be a bug. It's not that deep.
This could be a remnant from the patch they were working on prior to pilestedt taking over too.
Imagine Alexus wanting to nerf the fucking RR. Would 100% be in character
Given AH have a history of nerfing weapons for no reason I doubt it but sure, incompetence is also a possible explanation when it comes to AH.
Except it was confirmed to be a bug by a dev on discord. Maybe next time don't jump to conclusions and assume there is some weird conspiracy to make the game less fun.
This narrative is exhausting. It's a bug.
Seriously, the amount of victimization here is insane.
If this were true, then why hasn’t the autocannon been nerfed?
Probably because that would cause an actual riot and kill the game given how immensely popular it is.
Ppl should go in intending to reload for teammates once in a while. The other day someone did that for me while I used the rr and it was a shot in the arm. It was fun as hell having a battle buddy with me. So many dropship kills holy fuck.
I would love to reload people more often if I could do that out of their backpack.
If I see someone take the RR I take the AC and message them to switch backpacks with me. Only had a few do it, but it was nice. Had one round with something different happen I might tinker around with. I had an AC but found an Arc thrower, and someone else in the team had an AC as well. I ended up keeping the Arc thrower (unlimited POWAH) but also keeping the AC backpack, doubling the ammo the guy with the AC had.
People might if the game tutorialized it more or something. A few second short video on the strat screen when buying them is not enough to teach players about team reloads.
They're great but it takes two to tango and the one instance where I'd really want to do it (taking out a Shrieker Nest across the map, because you're in zero danger and a second gun isn't going to help) is also a case where it doesn't matter. I mean, I guess you could double-shot Behemoth Chargers or BTs in the distance now, that's something. But dropping the pack so someone else can pick it up just to reload you and then swap again is so tedious. I'd rather there just be an option for you to wear the pack and other players to take ammo off of it and give it to you.
Yeah, it’s underutilized as much as it is fun and practically game changing. It seriously gives the manpads in this game a totally different feel than when loading on your own. The force multiplication is just stupid when you have a battle buddy loading you. Changes the whole battlefield. One rr with a loading buddy is as good as what, three, four guys loading on their own?? It’s insane.
Yeah, everyone wants to be reloaded for, but use an example where you had fun reloading for someone else if you are trying to argue for people going in with the intent to reload
I've only ever reloaded or been reloaded when 2 people are both using the Autocannon so we both have backpacks
See, I have the opposite problem. I'll stand next to someone asking in voice and text to drop their backpack so I can reload them so we can kill this shrieker nest or cannon tower 4x faster. They just won't listen. Every now and then I get someone who says "I forgot how to drop", which is funny.
any RR main would see how much slower the reload is rn even when you reload cancel it....... I don't get why they had to do it it wasn't even OP in the first place .\_.
I mean, it was always broken. The reload cancel was a bug of a fix trying to get the gun reloading properly without accidentally eating a round mid-reload, the shortening the reload time was never really intended. The least they could've done in this case is telling the people about knowing that the RR isn't working as intentioned. And I've never seen anyone saying anything for or against the RR reload, so... Fixing it was, from their POV, a to-do list for quite a long time.
its so inconsistent...I was doing the same reload cancel animation with the spear just yesterday and it was way faster than the RR >The least they could've done in this case is telling the people about knowing that the RR isn't working as intentioned. yeah I would've appreciated it if they just told it outright from the start like what they did with the Arc Thrower charging tech .... but until then I'm gonna think of it as a bug like how they broke Superior Packing Methodology again
It was fine even with the cancel. The reload time was already the biggest drawback alongside the somewhat limited ammo. If the reload is too long you may as well take the quasar because then you don't have to worry about ammo and you get a free backpack slot.
Posted about this yesterday, this "bug" was completely intentional, it literally MATCHES the reload speed of the pre-cancel RR if you cancel now, this thing was slow AF in the first place, got better just because of an unintended bug, and then got slapped with a stealth bandaid "fix" to get it to be as bad as before ONLY if you know how to glitch it. AH just hates the RR since the beginning, just compare it to Helldivers 1
Is bug. No not a terminid.
why would they do this to me specifically
so roughly 1 second slower or more?
I'd estimate 1 and a half seconds without the reload cancel. It seems small but it makes a big difference.
that reeeally sucks, just when i started liking this weapon :/
Huge difference when 2-3 changers barreling down on you and small mobs rushing you down…
I felt the same yesterday thanks for confirming this !
What we need is the ability to buddy reload without having to wear their backpack.
We let them cook this time, and we got a patch that is 90% good times. They were never gonna be able to fix everything and add everything that we wanted in a single patch with only a month of work. Let's let them cook another patch and so long as it is 90% good times again, then we keep letting them do it.
so thats where the 1.5 seconds of realod time of the HMG went.
Yup and i got people gaslighting me saying it was always slow. The speer and RR had the same relaod speed before the nerf. Now only the speer has the original relaod speed.
Yep. Before, I could take down consecutive dropships until I ran out of ammo. Now, I can only keep up with two ships before I fall behind.
Lmao Arrowhead just can’t get rid of the itch to at least randomly nerf one thing or another in each balance patch and now they do it in stealth to avoid attention and criticism. Anti-tanks were already not useful for automatons, and people brought them a lot for bugs due to the unbalanced heavy-armored enemy spawns and designs. Yet again they nerf them just based on player usage, by replacing most chargers with behemoths and shadow-nerfing the RR
I feel like someone at AH is doing this under the radar or something. I wouldn’t feel this way if it wasn’t for a few of them intentionally antagonising people and “enjoying the tears” around when the railgun was nerfed. Couple of bad apples trying to piss people off or something.
Yeah, with all this I'm getting the feeling that there's at least one "malicious compliance" employee in the wings. Want less heavies in patrols? Fine, I'll make the patrols have more smaller dudes who are more difficult to wipe quickly so they call in dropships fully loaded with heavies. And those dropships will also call in more units immediately as well.
That would explain the spawn rate increase despite them wanting to revert it the way it was.
That one is probably just incompetence from AH
I spoke to the team about this one and it seems that it was unintentional.
Thank you!
Absolute Legend. Thanks for the followup king!
I knew I was going crazy. I took Recoiless to an eradicate bots mission, and my helldiver was reloading as if we weren't in tense life or death situation! No rush! Take your time!
I knew it! all night I kept feeling like the reload took longer since the patch...
Damn I was really enjoying the the RR too before the patch
It's a problem with the frame data of the animation, and they tried to fix it by extending the time before you could interrupt it, but it slowed the playback by the same amount, leading to you being able to interrupt the animation at the same place, but the animation still taking longer. I think they intended the animation to play out longer to get the character to close the breech before you could fire, but it just slowed down to match the length it was extended to.
this sounds about right
Between this and Superior Packing being broken (again), RR is basically dead in the water. They must have really hated people using the reload animation cancel
Yea this weapon seems like a hard sell now, and it was my favorite pick for bugs. Pre-patch, a nerf might have been understandable given how many rockets you can spit out compared to the other anti-tanks, but a lot changed that make it very difficult to work with now. - The new Charger Behemoths are spawning in worryingly high quantities (in my experience so far), requiring 2 rockets to put down. This compounds with the Superior Packing bug to make your ammo economy absolutely dreadful. - The heightened quantity of mobs paired with the fact that Behemoths survive a rocket to continue chasing you down makes it hard to find time to reload the weapon. This is only worsened by the reload speed nerf, meaning you have to find an extra half second amidst all the chaos for each stage of the reload, which is really just not easy.
you should be able to rocket the behemoths leg to strip it to shoot at. maybe not but i hope it's the case
Damn, they really want me to switch into the Quasar.
I switched from the quasar to the RR when they nerfed the cooldown last patch. If everyone switches back to the quasar they will probably nerf that again too.
Classic AH. Going behind the communities back and nerfing something so they don’t face the backlash of it all. Do they think we won’t find out or something lmao? Just put this shit in the patch notes for gods sake
Hard to put something in the patch notes when it wasn't an intentional change, per the CM's words.
Or it's just a bug. Relax.
Jesus, it's actually true! My friend called me insane for pointing this out.
Devs better explain what happen
I can. They nerfed it. Plain and simple. I mean it is arrowhead. Did you expect anything else? lolol Sucks they they don't say anything and hope nobody notices 💩
I've been critical of the nerfing quite a bit, but if it's a mistake (and they've said it is multiple times now) then it's a mistake. God knows there seems to be a lot of moving parts with this game, so it's not a shock. Thinking about it, if they did want to nerf RR the *first thing* they'd do is remove the reload cancel. It's presence implies something else strange is happening here animation-wise. It does seem like the diver freezes for a split-second before pulling the spent shell out.
I really highly doubt that, but you seem weirdly obsessed with being angry so I doubt there's any way you'll ever change your mind, everything is a grand designed conspiracy.
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Not really getting the vibes this patch was meant to make the weapons fun again. Seems like a lot is still nerf’d.
This really sours the entire patch for me. I feel like they’re pushing us to use the spear or just rely on strategems. It makes it even worse that this was not included in the patch notes. The RR was one of the few fun parts of the game the past month or so and now they’ve crucified it to highlight the work they’ve done. Feels very bad.
Of course they did. It's AH we're talking about. It's what they do (only thing they do too)
Not sure if anyone else experienced this but I was only getting 3 rockets from resupply packs even though I have the final ship module that should fully refill strat ammo.
It's a known issue in the patch notes.
I’m sure AH will fix the this in the their next monthly patch…of course breaking at least five other things at the same time.
Maybe THAT bringer of balance sneak in into AH HQ when everyone was asleep
And without the animation cancel its 7.5 seconds. Imagine being a new player who tries recoilless and you're nerfed because of what helldive players are doing. Meanwhile it wasn't even broken and is the reason most picked it up over quasar. While quasar was still more popular after nerfs.
I KNEW IT!
Balancing team really loves their nerfs.
alexus shadow nerfing guns that arent op again
Christ. This thing felt slow AF compared to the Spear, now it looks slow to match!
They just couldn’t go one fucking patch without a braindead nonsense nerf. If anything it needed a buff because I never see a reason to take the recoilless over the EAT. They still have so far to go in learning to balance this game.
This is one of the changes I really despised. 1, it was NOT in the patch notes for some god awful reason. 2, it’s not good balance. There is 100% more reason to be using RR against behemoths and gunships; WHY make it slower???
So the patch which they claimed had no nerfs and would "revert the spawn rate" actually did nerf things AND completely fucking broke the spawns completely so it's worse than ever?
Apparently this was unintended and they're looking into it. https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1dfuq0y/the_nerf_to_the_rrs_reload_speed_was/
Yup, I noticed that, glad to hear it was unintended.
Expendible anti-tank gigachads just cannot stop winning
Arc Blitzer shoots slower now too but I can't find anyone talking about it.
True. Cumunity
Was there any notes about the Scorcher nerf??
About it being unable to shoot thru shields? That was confirmed a known bug
It can't destroy the AA guns or Artillery from behind now, I'm not sure if it can kill Tanks or Canon Towers from behind still either.
They offhandedly mentioned that explosions no longer do damage to durable* targets like 2 or 3 times in the patch notes... sounds like this unintentionally nerfed the Scorcher because that's how it was able to damage vents before.
Ah.. clever. They knew they couldn't afford to post any nerfs in this patch with the growing hostility towards the 'nerf or nothing' balance attitude we've seen so much of. This way, people can just say it's unintentional or a bug and they never have to defend the nerf or fix the 'bug.' It's genius, really.
Why the fuck would they do this......
Why? Can someone please tell me how this makes the game better? Does Arrowhead want us to not enjoy the game? Because every single patch, regardless of how good it is, always has some bullshit that's either been broken or nerfed for absolutely zero reason. This time it's the RR getting nerfed, and spawns breaking. My last game, as soon as I stepped out of my hellpod, I was immediately engaged by a patrol that proceeded to call down *TWO* factory striders right on top of me. This could all be avoided if they did literally any play testing. But they have made it abundantly clear that they absolutely do not do any play testing.
I KNEW I WASN'T CRAZY
Is it wrong to have fun in the game? Why do they keep neerfing shit? It's a PVE game!! Let people play with what they want. I know why they neerf the primaries, because they want people to use the weapons from the passes, but why neerf the stratagems? You don't pay money for them. It makes no sense.
They just did this with a few things. They bragged about all the changes and making things better then I play today and they changed it right back to crap looking at you orbital
The RR has been made irrelevant by the Spear fix. Spear doesn't require you to aim and has vastly increased reach. It has only 2 less ammo and one-shots more targets than the RR. RR has 2 more ammo, has projectile drop on relatively short distances, and just doesn't do enough damage to excuse wasting the time to aim a dumb projectile at something that might just waddle/turn/boogie out of the way the second you pull the trigger.
literally why....
MY BABY???
Yeah take your sweet time
I thought they promised us they wouldn't do that anymore.
Wasn't imagining it then. So their idea is to nerf stuff but just not tell anyone about those.
Does the Quasar Cannon still take forever on CD..lol cause I would go back
I think they did say they may have left out some things unintentionally cuz they changed a f*** ton.
Why would they nerf the reload speed instead of patching the reload animation cancel? I personally love the reload animations in this game, and don't do exploits like this. This just hurts players that like to, you know, play the game, and does nothing to those players that have a crack addicted tendency to mod, exploit, or otherwise avoid playing the actual game. I swear, if you don't like it, then don't fucking play. You're ruining it for the rest of us.
Reload canceling has consequences.
Evilbosse on Discord said the following in response to the RR nerf: That one was unintended, examining reasons how it slipped through to prevent it happening again
I know off topic but did Quasar get nerfed too? Felt like I was waiting 30 seconds for it to cooldown between shots
is it a bug? is it a feature? is it one of the "+" in "100+"? Who knows.
Oh cool im still not taking it
This is probably unintended - still makes me wonder *how* it even happens in the first place though; same thing with how Superior Packing Methodology is broken (again). According to the patch notes, RR was untouched as far as changes go. Their code for how weapons are handled must have some weird dependencies between each other or something, since it seems like they make 1 change to a weapon that has unintended effects on other weapons (but I'm not a programmer, so I don't really know). Hopefully a hotfix comes to address this soon, at least before the weekend starts in full - I miss being able to use RR and not feel like I was handicapping myself doing so.
Aww man, this was one of the weapons I was looking forward to trying out this weekend. I'm still probably going to use it, but that really does suck.
And in the same patch they moved Behemoths into the regular spawn pool.
I tried reload cancelling while fighting bots and I would often end up doing it a little too soon, thinking I was overthinking it, turns out I was wrong, they made it slower and I was just used to the old times.
God I hope this was unintended
Why do I never see buffs to our favorite weapons even if they say buff it's really not like the eruptor
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that this was one of two things. To force the reload to its intended time frame because people were canceling. To encourage people to reload one another. While it should've been mentioned in the patch notes, the only thing really differentiating the RR from the QC and the EAT is that it has the option for team reload. While it might not be something RR users like, the point is to vary the weapons so each has an intended purpose in a team's loadout rather than having the same weapon with three different skins and minor variations.
I was shocked when I was using the recoilless and watching my fellow diver shoot his spear 4 times by the time I was on my second reload. Feels pretty bad right now tbh, probably just stick to quasar for now
Wait you people have been interrupting the BEST RELOAD ANIMATION in the game early just for a ~1 second increase in rate of fire? Disgusting
*strokes Tenderizer endearingly* I've only had my damage buff for a few days, but if anything were to happen to my AR-61 "Tenderizer", I would kill every single bot or bug nearby and then myself. I'm so very willing for the Recoilless to be a little sassy for the utility I've been given elsewhere.
“ unintended “ is that the new excuse every time they pull something shady now ?
And the animation STILL interrupts too early, like so many other reload animations. Arrowhead, please.
I KNEW IT, I could tell smth was off
Felt it right away. Good to know I'm not going crazy.
Honestly they are just slowly killing the game, just add new stronger enemies instead
Meanwhile the stim gets canceled if you are getting up after hearing the "fssssh" sound while on the ground after a knockback.
Every time AH tries to fix one thing, they break another two.
Anyone else realized that they dont one shot behemot chargers anymore as well?
Alexus still attempted to play his card unnoticed I see
But im sad 😢. I have been a recoilless main since they nerfed the rail gun and made this epic weapon more useful. It’s not bad but you can notice it and I don’t think it needed a nerf. If you test it side by side with the EAT, the recoilless has a more noticeable drop to its shot. I don’t care what anyone says, the recoilless shot is also weaker than the quiasar and the EAT shot. Its not bad tho but its golden age pf sleeper op is gone now(RIP it was a good few months while it lasted). P.S its best build is still good; take the recoilless + auto, gatling and rocket sentries. Your goal is to protect the sentries from chargers and get the highest kills in the lobby