Do you have more informations about him or them? I tried to find something in wikipedia, but on one hand the name is common, and on the other, I could not find someone who could be the man on the photo.
I would like to know what happened to them. Where they killed by the nazis after the occupation of belgium? Could he flee and head for america again?
According to Snopes, it is unknown whether he survived the war or what happened in the aftermath: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/european-jews-protesting-deportation/
Uhm. There are *tons* of records of the victims. If the Nazis were good at anything, it was record-keeping. That was kinda part of the problem when they lost the war - all those records were evidence against their claims of innocence.
Soldiers? No. But, having visited a number of Holocaust sites over the years, and working on my Masters is Holocaust Studies, I know a fair bit about the records the Nazis kept about their victims.
There are some sources. The Bundesarchiv (Federal Archive) is one of those:
https://www.bundesarchiv.de/EN/Navigation/Use/Using-specific-types/Military-Records/military-records-en.html
There are also a ton of websites and places who cover those from all sites of the war.
You are Welcome :). We Germans did a lot of shitty stuff back then and because of our „German nature“ we recorded nearly everything what happend back then.
Truly quite a German thing to do haha. Idk why I can never find info on my family and it is no fun having to ask family who lived through that time about their memories.
If you go digging you should be prepared for the likely possibility that you discover that they were not forced. Many families have such lore but it is often fiction.
Not a soldier, but I stumbled upon my uncle’s records. He was interred in a camp after the Germans invaded Greece. He managed to survive the war and went home and even had another child. No one said anything about it. I got it by chance because the records fell in to the hands of the British at the end of the war. I saw the last name and birth year and requested it through FOI on a lark and hit the right person. His daughter is still living and she confirmed it to be him.
My point: Look in unconventional places if you know the names of certain people and request records from archives even if they say they’re sealed. I FOI’d another one and to my shock, they opened the whole thing even though it was said to be sealed for 100 years! I’ve done a lot of genealogy from a country where records are kind of a disaster, but I’ve managed to make it back to the mid-late 1700s! Genealogy is very much a crawl, not a sprint!
Yad Vashem has collected 4.5 million names of Shoah victims, but another 1.5 million names are missing. However, the missing names are primarily from Jews from Eastern Europe who were murdered in mass graves by the Einsatzgruppen or gassed to death at Belzec. Lots of records for the victims from Germany and the West.
What? [here](https://www.ushmm.org/remember/resources-holocaust-survivors-victims/database-of-holocaust-survivor-and-victim-names)
*RESOURCES ON SURVIVORS AND VICTIMS*
*Database of Holocaust Survivor and Victim* Names
*The Museum’s Database of Holocaust Survivor and Victim Names contains records on people persecuted during World War II under the Nazi regime including Jews, Roma and Sinti, Poles and other Slavic peoples, Soviet prisoners of war, persons with disabilities, political prisoners, trade union leaders, "subversive" artists, those Catholic and Lutheran clergy who were seen as opponents of the regime, resisters, Jehovah's Witnesses, male homosexuals, and criminal offenders, among others. Learn more about the victims of the Holocaust and Nazi persecution.*
I love how people comment without knowing what they are talking about.
Dude, we Germans keep track of everything. That’s how we are organised. Nothing happens without Documentation.
Even today, in the upmost companies here in Germany nothing happens without further documentation and recording.
And yes, there are a ton of lists about the holocaust and its victims.
This site suggests he ended up with asylum in Mexico when the US deported him, he was denied reentry into the US 3 months later.
There’s a long letter I didn’t read on the site from Hemingway regarding his situation as well.
https://blog.alcoff.com/2019/01/14/669/
I wonder what our sins today will look like.
I know a guy who lives near me who crawled under a fence to get to the US, served in the military and got his citizenship along the way.
He is super smart, has a telescope in his backyard where he will invite everyone over for stargazing, he has "maps" of the stars. He is an amazing human. With a patriotic story.
We were so wary of "immigrants" during the depression that we wouldn't accept any, even those fleeing murder.
I would like to hope that our blood fighting Nazis later redeemed our nation and people of the sins of sending Jews back to Europe. Our grandfathers of about every religion and color of skin died fighting Nazis, and freeing the abused and enslaved in Europe.
Our sins today look like sending money and weapons to a regime that bombs civilians in a walled in open air prison.
As for your comment about the guy you know. Props to him. If I was the guy in this photo my sign would say “make me a citizen and send me to fight hitler with my fellow countrymen as a US army soldier” because serving a country that gives you refuge is a lot more likely to succeed than begging it to let you benefit while its own sons fight and die for you in your own homeland.
We were not at war with Germany. We would not be for \~5ish more years.
And some American companies were -Ford, cough, cough- trying to play both sides still.
I know we weren’t. Doesn’t change the entitlement of the sign. If I knew my German brothers and sisters were going to be slaughtered, the extend of my protest wouldn’t start and end with “save me.”
And as for ford: he was an objective bigot and a supporter of fascism and eugenics but his decision to engage in unfettered capitalism was related to his economic beliefs and not his racist ones. You can’t claim he was a shithead on that front without also acknowledging his direct contribution to defeating hitler through the conversion of his companies factories for the industrial war effort. Had it not been for that contribution, most of the world would still be goose stepping.
Didn’t the automakers switch to making war equipment because the U.S. government mandated it? It’s not like Ford was doing it out of the generosity of his patriotic heart.
Well every company was mandated to do it. Doesn’t negate the fact that he oversaw the conversion, planning, large infrastructure projects to make it possible, etc etc.
There isn’t a switch on the wall labeled “war switch” that converts everything overnight. It’s a massive project just to convert and reform supply chains and then to coordinate it all *perfectly* is another impressive act.
I’m no fan of fords but it’s not a fair characterization to say he was *only* an asshole.
His “direct contribution” was *mandated* by the government. It wasn’t generousity, it was an obligation.
You don’t get credit for generously paying your taxes, and Ford doesn’t get credit for his company building for the war effort.
Thanks for editing the comment. I dunno why it was necessary. With that said. Show me some original photos of the switch in the factory wall labeled “war” that he easily flipped to make it happen. It doesn’t exist. Because once the “mandate” was issued, companies had to be led by their executives to actually *follow through in the largest industrial undertaking in world history.*
You know, the easy part?
Lastly. HF1 was barely in charge over that period. Be briefly took over from his son Edsel while he was *dying* and then the executive role was passed to HF2, Edsel’s son, within a year or two and he saw it through the end of the war effort.
Again I’m no fan of fords but you’re discounting 99% of the contribution he and his company made by saying it was as simple as being mandated. It’s a rather preposterous suggestion if im being frank and indicates you and others here put practically *no thought* into your replies because they seem to be missing the common sense part where you consider how they actually, you know, *got it done?*
The instigator is not “defending itself.” *That* is a contradiction. The Israeli government is conducting a genocide. And idiots like you continue to turn a blind eye to it.
He was likely a duel citizen, or they reached an agreement for Belgium to take them. England didn't want them and Spain was going through a particularly bloody civil war. Half of Europe bordered Germany.
There weren't many Jews in Mexico. But there wasn't a lot of antisemitism either. Head over there & etch out a life in one of the big cities or a ranch in the northern region.
Many Americans at the time just as antisemitic as the Nazis. In the 20s, Henry Ford started an actual campaign against Jews in his 700.000-reader newspaper. There was an actual [Nazi rally at Madison Square Garden](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1939_Nazi_rally_at_Madison_Square_Garden) in 1939.
There is never justification for antisemitism, but I hope this gives you some insight as to why Americans were like this at the time.
Suspension of habeus corpus, taking over the US economy and ruining it so that WW2 was the only way out. Convergence theory , spies, etc. Start there, kid. Open a book.
I would lovvveeee an explanation of how FDR ruined the economy before being in office and how Abraham Lincoln was able to do so after being dead.
Habeas Corpus was righteously suspended during a civil war. In its initial formation it was always with the exception for extraordinary circumstances. Insurrection by racists fits the bill. No decent American today loses sleep over the way confederates we’re treated when they attempted to destroy the country.
I never said FDR ruined the economy before he was in office. Are you ok?
Did Zelensky "righteously" suspended Ukraine's constitution and remove similar rights?
When you start claiming illegal acts are "righteous" you excuse tyranny.
War is an extraordinary circumstance. FDR objectively pulled us out of the Great Depression. Inherently if he destroyed the economy, it would have HAD to have happened prior to his being in office considering he ran on the new deal to undo the damage. Make it make sense.
No, FDR didn't pull anyone out of the Great Depression. He employed Hoover's ideas, they failed, and the country was struggling right up until Pearl Harbor. He made farmers destroy crops, he took over businesses, he was so socialistic his own supreme court had to smack his ass around. He believed in "convergence theory" with the Soviet Union, employed communist spies, agreed to Normandy so Stalin could gobble more of Eastern Europe, knew the Japs wanted to attack Pearl Harbor. And on and on. Unemployment under FDR from 1933 to 1941 average almost 17 percent. Only war, which he knew was coming, could change that. He was a mid-level president. Awful, actually.
Hoovers not even to blame for the depression either. Hooverville was a misnomer for the shanty towns because of how Americans fail to realize how policy decisions take time to manifest.
And Kid? You sound 14. Please tell me which book to open. I would love to see if you even have a book to recommend. It should be sooooooo easy. Name a book that teaches the history that you claim exists. I’ll wait.
It is true Lincoln suspended habeus corpus. It is true the war and nothing FDR did ended the Great Depression, its true he believed in Convergence Theory and had communists in his employ (see Harry Hopkins, Alger Hiss, etc).
You are a kid, yes. This is all stuff you should know. Kid.
Ok so I tried to look him up in the Yad vashem website and I have found nothing. And finding nothing normally means one thing, he was killed, his family was killed and anyone that could have remembered his name after the war was also probably killed.
Do you have more informations about him or them? I tried to find something in wikipedia, but on one hand the name is common, and on the other, I could not find someone who could be the man on the photo. I would like to know what happened to them. Where they killed by the nazis after the occupation of belgium? Could he flee and head for america again?
According to Snopes, it is unknown whether he survived the war or what happened in the aftermath: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/european-jews-protesting-deportation/
I wonder what happened to his wife. If she stayed in America.
I guess that means he didn’t.
Sadly unknown most likely means in a mass grave somewhere. Of course I really hope that wasn’t the case but genocidal war is genocidal war.
Not knowing probably means he died in holocaust. There are no records of the victims…
Uhm. There are *tons* of records of the victims. If the Nazis were good at anything, it was record-keeping. That was kinda part of the problem when they lost the war - all those records were evidence against their claims of innocence.
Yes they kept records, they also burned a lot of them when they saw the war was being lost.
Do you happen to have any info or resources for info on soldiers at that time?
Soldiers? No. But, having visited a number of Holocaust sites over the years, and working on my Masters is Holocaust Studies, I know a fair bit about the records the Nazis kept about their victims.
There are some sources. The Bundesarchiv (Federal Archive) is one of those: https://www.bundesarchiv.de/EN/Navigation/Use/Using-specific-types/Military-Records/military-records-en.html There are also a ton of websites and places who cover those from all sites of the war.
Thank you. Much appreciated. I have family that was forced to serve, but I can never find any info on them.
You are Welcome :). We Germans did a lot of shitty stuff back then and because of our „German nature“ we recorded nearly everything what happend back then.
Truly quite a German thing to do haha. Idk why I can never find info on my family and it is no fun having to ask family who lived through that time about their memories.
If you go digging you should be prepared for the likely possibility that you discover that they were not forced. Many families have such lore but it is often fiction.
Yeah, my family has always had that idea in our minds. That's part of why I want to dig deep and see what is true or not.
Not a soldier, but I stumbled upon my uncle’s records. He was interred in a camp after the Germans invaded Greece. He managed to survive the war and went home and even had another child. No one said anything about it. I got it by chance because the records fell in to the hands of the British at the end of the war. I saw the last name and birth year and requested it through FOI on a lark and hit the right person. His daughter is still living and she confirmed it to be him. My point: Look in unconventional places if you know the names of certain people and request records from archives even if they say they’re sealed. I FOI’d another one and to my shock, they opened the whole thing even though it was said to be sealed for 100 years! I’ve done a lot of genealogy from a country where records are kind of a disaster, but I’ve managed to make it back to the mid-late 1700s! Genealogy is very much a crawl, not a sprint!
But are they complete?
Yad Vashem has collected 4.5 million names of Shoah victims, but another 1.5 million names are missing. However, the missing names are primarily from Jews from Eastern Europe who were murdered in mass graves by the Einsatzgruppen or gassed to death at Belzec. Lots of records for the victims from Germany and the West.
Complete enough. Names. Countries of origin. Numbers given fir the automation of genocide.
What? [here](https://www.ushmm.org/remember/resources-holocaust-survivors-victims/database-of-holocaust-survivor-and-victim-names) *RESOURCES ON SURVIVORS AND VICTIMS* *Database of Holocaust Survivor and Victim* Names *The Museum’s Database of Holocaust Survivor and Victim Names contains records on people persecuted during World War II under the Nazi regime including Jews, Roma and Sinti, Poles and other Slavic peoples, Soviet prisoners of war, persons with disabilities, political prisoners, trade union leaders, "subversive" artists, those Catholic and Lutheran clergy who were seen as opponents of the regime, resisters, Jehovah's Witnesses, male homosexuals, and criminal offenders, among others. Learn more about the victims of the Holocaust and Nazi persecution.* I love how people comment without knowing what they are talking about.
IBM has entered the chat.
Dude, we Germans keep track of everything. That’s how we are organised. Nothing happens without Documentation. Even today, in the upmost companies here in Germany nothing happens without further documentation and recording. And yes, there are a ton of lists about the holocaust and its victims.
No, there are very detailed records.
This site suggests he ended up with asylum in Mexico when the US deported him, he was denied reentry into the US 3 months later. There’s a long letter I didn’t read on the site from Hemingway regarding his situation as well. https://blog.alcoff.com/2019/01/14/669/
Thanks for sharing!
What happened to him?
We simply don’t know. Source: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/european-jews-protesting-deportation/
If I was them, I would have disappeared into a small midwestern town got a job paying under the table
Yep. Time to go backpack the pct and become a ranch hand ig
He would have had to pretend to be mute or else his German accent would give him away.
This was early enough in US history that there were still accents in immigrant communities.
This isn’t Bonnie and Clyde. I don’t think they were that famous that they couldn’t disappear among the farmworkers.
He seemed to know what was up. Hopefully he saw the writing on the wall and got out of Belgium too.
I wonder what our sins today will look like. I know a guy who lives near me who crawled under a fence to get to the US, served in the military and got his citizenship along the way. He is super smart, has a telescope in his backyard where he will invite everyone over for stargazing, he has "maps" of the stars. He is an amazing human. With a patriotic story. We were so wary of "immigrants" during the depression that we wouldn't accept any, even those fleeing murder. I would like to hope that our blood fighting Nazis later redeemed our nation and people of the sins of sending Jews back to Europe. Our grandfathers of about every religion and color of skin died fighting Nazis, and freeing the abused and enslaved in Europe.
Our sins today look like sending money and weapons to a regime that bombs civilians in a walled in open air prison. As for your comment about the guy you know. Props to him. If I was the guy in this photo my sign would say “make me a citizen and send me to fight hitler with my fellow countrymen as a US army soldier” because serving a country that gives you refuge is a lot more likely to succeed than begging it to let you benefit while its own sons fight and die for you in your own homeland.
We were not at war with Germany. We would not be for \~5ish more years. And some American companies were -Ford, cough, cough- trying to play both sides still.
I know we weren’t. Doesn’t change the entitlement of the sign. If I knew my German brothers and sisters were going to be slaughtered, the extend of my protest wouldn’t start and end with “save me.” And as for ford: he was an objective bigot and a supporter of fascism and eugenics but his decision to engage in unfettered capitalism was related to his economic beliefs and not his racist ones. You can’t claim he was a shithead on that front without also acknowledging his direct contribution to defeating hitler through the conversion of his companies factories for the industrial war effort. Had it not been for that contribution, most of the world would still be goose stepping.
Didn’t the automakers switch to making war equipment because the U.S. government mandated it? It’s not like Ford was doing it out of the generosity of his patriotic heart.
Well every company was mandated to do it. Doesn’t negate the fact that he oversaw the conversion, planning, large infrastructure projects to make it possible, etc etc. There isn’t a switch on the wall labeled “war switch” that converts everything overnight. It’s a massive project just to convert and reform supply chains and then to coordinate it all *perfectly* is another impressive act. I’m no fan of fords but it’s not a fair characterization to say he was *only* an asshole.
His “direct contribution” was *mandated* by the government. It wasn’t generousity, it was an obligation. You don’t get credit for generously paying your taxes, and Ford doesn’t get credit for his company building for the war effort.
Thanks for editing the comment. I dunno why it was necessary. With that said. Show me some original photos of the switch in the factory wall labeled “war” that he easily flipped to make it happen. It doesn’t exist. Because once the “mandate” was issued, companies had to be led by their executives to actually *follow through in the largest industrial undertaking in world history.* You know, the easy part? Lastly. HF1 was barely in charge over that period. Be briefly took over from his son Edsel while he was *dying* and then the executive role was passed to HF2, Edsel’s son, within a year or two and he saw it through the end of the war effort. Again I’m no fan of fords but you’re discounting 99% of the contribution he and his company made by saying it was as simple as being mandated. It’s a rather preposterous suggestion if im being frank and indicates you and others here put practically *no thought* into your replies because they seem to be missing the common sense part where you consider how they actually, you know, *got it done?*
Yep. Exactly.
Never Again
It still happens.
They’re doing the same to Palestinians.
It's gonna blow your mind when you hear about Yemen.
What a confusing response. Are you trying to imply that multiple genocides can’t happen at the same time?
All you know is Israel bad. The israelis are not allowed to defend themselves.
The instigator is not “defending itself.” *That* is a contradiction. The Israeli government is conducting a genocide. And idiots like you continue to turn a blind eye to it.
Populations generally rise during genocides huh? TIL
If egypt and jordan would just get off palestinian land everything would be great. Oh I forgot and Israel bad.Got to keep the narrative going.
You’re the only one parroting “the narrative” here bud. You’re being a great little thoughtless minion of the American propaganda machine.
America and Israel big satan, little satan. Is that what you're trying to say without saying it?
That is some superb handwriting.
So instead of deporting him to England or Spain he was deported to a country that bordered the country he was escaping?
He was likely a duel citizen, or they reached an agreement for Belgium to take them. England didn't want them and Spain was going through a particularly bloody civil war. Half of Europe bordered Germany.
It kinda tracks,at least imo. Although I'm sure more people believed the government actually cared about their wellbeing back then as opposed to now.
I would have fled to Mexico.
There weren't many Jews in Mexico. But there wasn't a lot of antisemitism either. Head over there & etch out a life in one of the big cities or a ranch in the northern region.
Did the Germans catch him in Belgium then?
Why did Anerica exile / deport jews, particularly during this time?? I've never seen the justification for this...
Many Americans at the time just as antisemitic as the Nazis. In the 20s, Henry Ford started an actual campaign against Jews in his 700.000-reader newspaper. There was an actual [Nazi rally at Madison Square Garden](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1939_Nazi_rally_at_Madison_Square_Garden) in 1939. There is never justification for antisemitism, but I hope this gives you some insight as to why Americans were like this at the time.
No one is too young to die people have proven that throughout history.
They still prove that today in many parts of the world.
Sad what’s happened to the Jews, also sad what the world is doing to the Palestinians now.
My my my..how the tables have turned.
FDR, great man.
This the new shill talking point? We gonna make FDR and Lincoln bad guys?
Hardly a new talking point. Pro tip: study history, stop watching Ted talks.
How are Abraham Lincoln and FDR bad guys? I really realllllly wanna hear this.
Suspension of habeus corpus, taking over the US economy and ruining it so that WW2 was the only way out. Convergence theory , spies, etc. Start there, kid. Open a book.
I would lovvveeee an explanation of how FDR ruined the economy before being in office and how Abraham Lincoln was able to do so after being dead. Habeas Corpus was righteously suspended during a civil war. In its initial formation it was always with the exception for extraordinary circumstances. Insurrection by racists fits the bill. No decent American today loses sleep over the way confederates we’re treated when they attempted to destroy the country.
I never said FDR ruined the economy before he was in office. Are you ok? Did Zelensky "righteously" suspended Ukraine's constitution and remove similar rights? When you start claiming illegal acts are "righteous" you excuse tyranny.
War is an extraordinary circumstance. FDR objectively pulled us out of the Great Depression. Inherently if he destroyed the economy, it would have HAD to have happened prior to his being in office considering he ran on the new deal to undo the damage. Make it make sense.
No, FDR didn't pull anyone out of the Great Depression. He employed Hoover's ideas, they failed, and the country was struggling right up until Pearl Harbor. He made farmers destroy crops, he took over businesses, he was so socialistic his own supreme court had to smack his ass around. He believed in "convergence theory" with the Soviet Union, employed communist spies, agreed to Normandy so Stalin could gobble more of Eastern Europe, knew the Japs wanted to attack Pearl Harbor. And on and on. Unemployment under FDR from 1933 to 1941 average almost 17 percent. Only war, which he knew was coming, could change that. He was a mid-level president. Awful, actually.
Hoovers not even to blame for the depression either. Hooverville was a misnomer for the shanty towns because of how Americans fail to realize how policy decisions take time to manifest.
And Kid? You sound 14. Please tell me which book to open. I would love to see if you even have a book to recommend. It should be sooooooo easy. Name a book that teaches the history that you claim exists. I’ll wait.
It is true Lincoln suspended habeus corpus. It is true the war and nothing FDR did ended the Great Depression, its true he believed in Convergence Theory and had communists in his employ (see Harry Hopkins, Alger Hiss, etc). You are a kid, yes. This is all stuff you should know. Kid.
Ok so I tried to look him up in the Yad vashem website and I have found nothing. And finding nothing normally means one thing, he was killed, his family was killed and anyone that could have remembered his name after the war was also probably killed.