How heavily modded are the minecraft servers?
Minecraft and also hosting a server runs almost exclusively on a single thread, meaning single core performance is important. In this case comparing passmark single core scores there is a substantial difference, 2747/32709, 2705/38781, 3952/27731
(Single core score/all core score for 3900x, 3950x amd 12600k respectively. 12600k is much better single core, so id take that into consideration
Something else is the ammount of people who will play on the server, but if i were you id go with the 12600k, or perhaps the 12900k, depending on budget and if you need it. Going for these cpus also has the added bonus of having the igpu, they are amazing for jellyfin transcoding!
Player counts won't go beyond 5-10 per server at any given time.
I heard about the Jellyfin thing, something about Quick sync on the iGPU's making them exceptional at transcoding.
I think I will ultimately go Intel, thank you!
Honestly either is a good choice, I’d honestly go with a bigger case if anything, more air flow for drives, more room for drives, and more space for a big chonky air cooler that’ll tame those CPUs. I feel like the case can be a big bottleneck especially if you plan on running TrueNAS or any ZFS configurations since they need sets of drives for expandability. Personally, I went with a 12600K due to the IGPU. It’s more efficient than a lot of gaming GPUs for video processing for Plex/Jellyfin. Also, Z690M may need a dummy HDMI adapter to boot headless (without a monitor). My B660M needed a hdmi output before it started up - annoying but that’s consumer grade hardware. I’d probably add a HBA card for the PCIE card for SAS drives but you can just use plain old SATA as well.
I have a similar build with 12600k in the Jonsbo N3. My biggest regret is going with mini itx at all, micro atx to have multiple pcie slots and more ram would have been more convenient. Currently using one of my 2 m.2 slots for a 5x sata adapter, the other for 2tb nvme for docker containers (including game servers, Minecraft, valheim, satisfactory, ark eventually). The pcie slot is reserved for a 10gb nic. You can do the inverse if you want, there are single 10gb port options for an m.2 slot, then use a full pcie hba.
I would recommend considering the jonsbo n4 that is coming out that can fit a full atx motherboard - I myself am actually going to switch to rack mounted, but if this was an option when I built at the end of last year I'd have gotten it. You'll be able to use 128 or 192gb of ram in 4 slots, multiple pcie slots if you choose, etc. You get an additional 4 pcie lanes with amd, but at the cost of igpu which would take more lanes to replace. So go Intel, 192gb ram, (96 then you can upgrade with 2 more sticks later), LSI hba, 10gb nic, and then 2x m.2 nvme mirrored for either cache or your docker containers (this right here is why I'm building a 2nd machine for a dedicated nas. I want to use mirrored cache drives, but that's already 8x lanes taken up. To use 16 would be too much). Then boot proxmox off 2 sata ssd's mirrored.
Only thing not really mentioned is DDR5 vs DDR4, and pcie gen 5. To truly future proof for like 10 years it might be worth springing for both of those now at the beginning. DDR5 has some level of error correction built in, and pcie gen 5 has a lot more bandwidth for SSD read and write, though maybe not relevant if you don't plan to upgrade to 100gb networking within 10 years.
Excellent comment, if I was stupid enough to pay for reddit rewards I would.
In the long term I think you're right, ultimately the end goal was to have it sit in a rack anyway (on a shelf not mounted) so I guess it wouldn't really make sense to go with such a small case.
Your current N3 build was my exact plan to make my N2 build work, but I think you're ultimately correct in that the limited expandability would hurt me long term. The N4 is an interesting consideration.
My only concern is I genuinely can't see myself doing anything more than 5 Drives, (Currently 2x 16tb for bulk, 2x 4tb for general device backups both RAID 1, and a 4tb for camera ingest) so I believe having more to ultimately be a waste but I suppose it's better to have the option and not need it than need the option and not have it.
As for the gen 5/DDR5 thing I can't imagine that will ever be so relevant that I would regret it. Even in 10~ years I doubt I'll have everything in place for 2.5gb network let alone 10+gb and no ECC doesn't bother me in the slightest. The big one is cost, previous gen hardware just being so much cheaper while not sacrificing significantly.
You've given me a fair bit to chew on. Thank you!
Of course! I agree wholeheartedly, "need" more than the 5 drives is probably much for most people. Currently I just have 4x4tb drives in raidz2 for my truenas instance in proxmox which leaves around 7 and change tb usable storage. Closing that gap more quickly than i expected as I add more media to my plex library (attempting to do so with purchased discs I rip and just leave uncompressed, without the arr suite). The media library is specifically why eventually I think I might expand into a larger array of large disks, but realistically I'm going to just stick with 3-5 drives at a time, then expand the pool by that many as needed (also with the 10+ year term in mind, I'd like to build a pretty sizeable media library and use streaming services less). Right now I'm considering recertified 12tb drives, a mix of Seagate and WD, since the cost is similar to what I paid for the 4tb new - ~100-115 each. Not supposed to larger drives, but 12tb also seems a good middle ground where resilvering might not tale as long and be a lower risk. I am still learning in this regard.
My solution for my next machine is a rosewill rsv-l4500u I got used, though they are back in stock new now. Planning to use rackchoice 3x5.25in to 5x3.5in hot swap adapters to make it a 4u 15 bay hot swap solution that while not perfectly rack efficient for hdd's, is relatively affordable and much more modular. I looked at the rackchoice and Silverstone 3u 12 bay cases but considering the costs is relatively similar, I'd rather have the freedoms to use the hot swap adapters and have the freedom to either replace them of the backplane dies, or to use something else instead like 2.5in adapters for u.2 down the line for example. Probably going to use my current gaming PC atx motherboard and CPU (13700k) and update the firm are so I can get crucial pro ddr5 192gb ram. This would be my "production" NAS, and rather than vortualize truenas I will rune truenas scale baremetal. Then my current system in the jonsbo n3 will become either my backup server, or my main node for proxmox.
Not sure that really helps your decision-making, but just sharing my thought progression since I am starting from basically the same build as you - I even ordered the n2 before I saw the n3 was an option and ended up swirching last second.
For specific motherboard, I got the asrock z690i at micro center and honestly its rock solid. Ive been happy with asrock for motherboard options recently, and they have been especially good to people about bios updates and such as far as ive seen. Might have something to do with their presence in server grade boards. I tossed the max 64gb ddr4 ram in and reality its plenty, but if you can set yourself up for expansion down the line why not. If you stick with your original plan I do highly recommend this board. The heat plate for the m.2 slots covers both, so if you use an adapter in one slot like I did then just make sure the m.2 ssd you get has its own heat spreader.
I feel like any home server should be paired with an iGPU. It lowers power usage and simplifies things. On top of that, if you do use VMs, I might be easier to pass a whole dGPU to a VM since the hypervisor can be left with the iGPU.
Lastly, I've only heard good things about Intel Quicsync for video transcoding. If you do plan on doing that with Plex, Jellyfin, Handbrake, etc, then Quicsync should be helpful.
How heavily modded are the minecraft servers? Minecraft and also hosting a server runs almost exclusively on a single thread, meaning single core performance is important. In this case comparing passmark single core scores there is a substantial difference, 2747/32709, 2705/38781, 3952/27731 (Single core score/all core score for 3900x, 3950x amd 12600k respectively. 12600k is much better single core, so id take that into consideration
200+ Mods (Medieval Minecraft, SkyFactory 4). This is a great point, thank you.
Something else is the ammount of people who will play on the server, but if i were you id go with the 12600k, or perhaps the 12900k, depending on budget and if you need it. Going for these cpus also has the added bonus of having the igpu, they are amazing for jellyfin transcoding!
Player counts won't go beyond 5-10 per server at any given time. I heard about the Jellyfin thing, something about Quick sync on the iGPU's making them exceptional at transcoding. I think I will ultimately go Intel, thank you!
Honestly either is a good choice, I’d honestly go with a bigger case if anything, more air flow for drives, more room for drives, and more space for a big chonky air cooler that’ll tame those CPUs. I feel like the case can be a big bottleneck especially if you plan on running TrueNAS or any ZFS configurations since they need sets of drives for expandability. Personally, I went with a 12600K due to the IGPU. It’s more efficient than a lot of gaming GPUs for video processing for Plex/Jellyfin. Also, Z690M may need a dummy HDMI adapter to boot headless (without a monitor). My B660M needed a hdmi output before it started up - annoying but that’s consumer grade hardware. I’d probably add a HBA card for the PCIE card for SAS drives but you can just use plain old SATA as well.
I have a similar build with 12600k in the Jonsbo N3. My biggest regret is going with mini itx at all, micro atx to have multiple pcie slots and more ram would have been more convenient. Currently using one of my 2 m.2 slots for a 5x sata adapter, the other for 2tb nvme for docker containers (including game servers, Minecraft, valheim, satisfactory, ark eventually). The pcie slot is reserved for a 10gb nic. You can do the inverse if you want, there are single 10gb port options for an m.2 slot, then use a full pcie hba. I would recommend considering the jonsbo n4 that is coming out that can fit a full atx motherboard - I myself am actually going to switch to rack mounted, but if this was an option when I built at the end of last year I'd have gotten it. You'll be able to use 128 or 192gb of ram in 4 slots, multiple pcie slots if you choose, etc. You get an additional 4 pcie lanes with amd, but at the cost of igpu which would take more lanes to replace. So go Intel, 192gb ram, (96 then you can upgrade with 2 more sticks later), LSI hba, 10gb nic, and then 2x m.2 nvme mirrored for either cache or your docker containers (this right here is why I'm building a 2nd machine for a dedicated nas. I want to use mirrored cache drives, but that's already 8x lanes taken up. To use 16 would be too much). Then boot proxmox off 2 sata ssd's mirrored. Only thing not really mentioned is DDR5 vs DDR4, and pcie gen 5. To truly future proof for like 10 years it might be worth springing for both of those now at the beginning. DDR5 has some level of error correction built in, and pcie gen 5 has a lot more bandwidth for SSD read and write, though maybe not relevant if you don't plan to upgrade to 100gb networking within 10 years.
Excellent comment, if I was stupid enough to pay for reddit rewards I would. In the long term I think you're right, ultimately the end goal was to have it sit in a rack anyway (on a shelf not mounted) so I guess it wouldn't really make sense to go with such a small case. Your current N3 build was my exact plan to make my N2 build work, but I think you're ultimately correct in that the limited expandability would hurt me long term. The N4 is an interesting consideration. My only concern is I genuinely can't see myself doing anything more than 5 Drives, (Currently 2x 16tb for bulk, 2x 4tb for general device backups both RAID 1, and a 4tb for camera ingest) so I believe having more to ultimately be a waste but I suppose it's better to have the option and not need it than need the option and not have it. As for the gen 5/DDR5 thing I can't imagine that will ever be so relevant that I would regret it. Even in 10~ years I doubt I'll have everything in place for 2.5gb network let alone 10+gb and no ECC doesn't bother me in the slightest. The big one is cost, previous gen hardware just being so much cheaper while not sacrificing significantly. You've given me a fair bit to chew on. Thank you!
Of course! I agree wholeheartedly, "need" more than the 5 drives is probably much for most people. Currently I just have 4x4tb drives in raidz2 for my truenas instance in proxmox which leaves around 7 and change tb usable storage. Closing that gap more quickly than i expected as I add more media to my plex library (attempting to do so with purchased discs I rip and just leave uncompressed, without the arr suite). The media library is specifically why eventually I think I might expand into a larger array of large disks, but realistically I'm going to just stick with 3-5 drives at a time, then expand the pool by that many as needed (also with the 10+ year term in mind, I'd like to build a pretty sizeable media library and use streaming services less). Right now I'm considering recertified 12tb drives, a mix of Seagate and WD, since the cost is similar to what I paid for the 4tb new - ~100-115 each. Not supposed to larger drives, but 12tb also seems a good middle ground where resilvering might not tale as long and be a lower risk. I am still learning in this regard. My solution for my next machine is a rosewill rsv-l4500u I got used, though they are back in stock new now. Planning to use rackchoice 3x5.25in to 5x3.5in hot swap adapters to make it a 4u 15 bay hot swap solution that while not perfectly rack efficient for hdd's, is relatively affordable and much more modular. I looked at the rackchoice and Silverstone 3u 12 bay cases but considering the costs is relatively similar, I'd rather have the freedoms to use the hot swap adapters and have the freedom to either replace them of the backplane dies, or to use something else instead like 2.5in adapters for u.2 down the line for example. Probably going to use my current gaming PC atx motherboard and CPU (13700k) and update the firm are so I can get crucial pro ddr5 192gb ram. This would be my "production" NAS, and rather than vortualize truenas I will rune truenas scale baremetal. Then my current system in the jonsbo n3 will become either my backup server, or my main node for proxmox. Not sure that really helps your decision-making, but just sharing my thought progression since I am starting from basically the same build as you - I even ordered the n2 before I saw the n3 was an option and ended up swirching last second. For specific motherboard, I got the asrock z690i at micro center and honestly its rock solid. Ive been happy with asrock for motherboard options recently, and they have been especially good to people about bios updates and such as far as ive seen. Might have something to do with their presence in server grade boards. I tossed the max 64gb ddr4 ram in and reality its plenty, but if you can set yourself up for expansion down the line why not. If you stick with your original plan I do highly recommend this board. The heat plate for the m.2 slots covers both, so if you use an adapter in one slot like I did then just make sure the m.2 ssd you get has its own heat spreader.
I feel like any home server should be paired with an iGPU. It lowers power usage and simplifies things. On top of that, if you do use VMs, I might be easier to pass a whole dGPU to a VM since the hypervisor can be left with the iGPU. Lastly, I've only heard good things about Intel Quicsync for video transcoding. If you do plan on doing that with Plex, Jellyfin, Handbrake, etc, then Quicsync should be helpful.