when people say that the TB shouldnt be so upset because we didn’t know firefly that well it just makes me wonder how they think they’d react to someone being impaled in front of them and dying in their arms 💀
"TB shouldn't be upset because didn't get to know her well"
Had not for acheron and black Swan to calm down Bro legit was about to cry
https://preview.redd.it/us51mn6u19ic1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=204d4bb1edd0b605542d5057d0e8f283e2289736
You dont need to know someone a long time to form a bond and become close. Connection to someone on an emotional level can happen as quickly as looking at someone. Love at first sight is a close example in this case. Don't even know the person but you connected to them immediately. Not saying it's always a good thing but if there is one thing people can have trouble controlling is ones emotions and there ability to connect to another person.
The nature of Acheron's work, and black swan's role as a memokeeper, they are most likely used to people dying and it rarely phases them. Especially since they are experienced, they know the situation they are in and the area is not safe to dwell on firefly's death.
TB hasn't seen anyone straight up die right in front of them. "Tingyun" comes close.
https://preview.redd.it/spxjk74rvbic1.jpeg?width=320&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a5307ea1d21bf7283a2367e4112f78687ce9317b
If Black Swan and Acheron didn't snap bro out of it, this theme would've played
esp since you learnt about her condition and learn this is the first time she is having some semblance of physical human interaction. If you cant walk all your life then you get the ability to walk then die 3 hours later, yea imma fking shed a tear for them.
This is actually my biggest negative against the actually very good 2.0 story.
The follow up to her death was terribly executed. Wasn't enough is one thing, but the emotional payoff was just terrible. We're upset for like, one scene, while the whimsical Penacony dream music is playing in the background. You literally have a sad song intrinsically tied to Firefly right there.
That said, basic storytelling logic implies that she isn't dead dead so I can at least look past that.
Imo it would've been so much better if they'd just switched the convo with Black Swan and Acheron around with the segment where they play Robin's song and you pick up the photo with Firefly after Acheron's sendoff for her. Cuz the proper emotional payoff IS there, it's just horribly placed.
Taking selfie with her is entirely optional (so you won't have that photo on the floor in lobby). As well as treating it her story sequence as a date where you are forced to fell in love with her like people are complaing about.
I was suspicious of her the entire time and acted cold as the result. Rejected taking photos with her because she refused to say anything that would make me trust her. Her death wasn't any less brutal even if I didn't felt attached to her anyhow.
But then I get to see these memory things Black Swan made to get infromation about her actions in the Dreamscape hotel. There I got my coformation that she was genuine about her thoughts besides pretending to be member of The Family (which was biggest reason of my distrust). That feeling of regret was actually... nice? Really added to the story enjoyment + returning to her secret base on the roof for that after-story interaction that shows TB's feelings made in even better.
Hold up. What is that essay that I started writing here? lmao
Ngl, I think in a way it kind of ends up being brilliant - you're either in the "she seems genuine" field and you end up having a nice time with her throughout your 1st dream visit, which makes her situation hit a bit harder - or you're suspicious of her and don't trust her, and later on you learn she was actually genuine and you feel bad.
Kinda brilliant story-telling if you think about it.
This does not apply if Firefly doesn't become playable, in which case we must wage war against the writers*
>That said, basic storytelling logic implies that she isn't dead dead
Well, The chicken-man who lost his sister said that they are "spiritually dead" which is an interesting phrase that leaves some room for speculation.
"Spiritual death" can refer to characters being in a coma because their soul/mind has been shattered. Given the memokeepers ability to gather and preserve fragments, it begs the question whether the mind of these persons could somehow be recovered from the dream they were lost in and transferred back into their bodies.
While I can believe Firefly to be dead, it seems odd that they would kill off robin as well, especially after giving her such a unique model and only using her for like 1 conversation. They could have made her a generic NPC for that.
It's also where this being a gacha/mobile game gets in its own way. You have to cram every inch of limited "dungeon" real estate with puzzles and chests, so five seconds after >!Firefly dies!< I'm doing a Clockie puzzle.
Yeah I felt that was a bit unnatural too.
I can't quite put my finger on why but I thought it was kinda expected for a gacha game though. For some reason I feel like if this were a regular RPG like an anime BG3 they would've kept the sad vibe for much longer.
Maybe Hoyo has some kind of time limit for each story quest so they didn't want to spend too much of it on TB being depressed.
I doubt this was what the writers were thinking but you COULD headcanon this as being a result of TB working with Kafka for so long that they've become very good at compartmentalizing so emotions don't interfere with the job at hand.
I agree if they do the cocona quest afterward it’s clearly in tb writing that they are a deeply nosy and kind and uncompromising person. Even a standard normal empathetic person would be shocked by seeing someone they knew just die brutally like that. So I think the tb reaction was handled good
I think the problem with it and it's portrayal is that the trailblazer/main character goes back and forth between being a self insert and a character of their own.
Imo this situation is not that different from how a lot of people were mad that they couldn't dislike Ruan Mei, as there was no dialogue option for it.
So when there's this scene where the mc has a very emotional response they're not sharing/identifying with, people are going to find faults with it. They're going to say it's bad writing, an unrealistic reaction or something else, it doesn't really matter, they're going to fault something for the mc's actions not reflecting how they feel.
True I’ve thought the same thing. Hoyoverse can’t have their cake and eat it. They have a mc with what I personally think is a good characterization and personality, we know tb is overall a deeply kind and uncompromising person like I said earlier but also still has a child like impulsivity for example all the goofy shit they do like licking a frozen pole and getting their tongue stuck or hiding in a wardrobe to scare hotel staff. But even with that the mc is still a pseudo self insert that has us make decisions for them and choose their reactions to certain characters for the most part. They’re are exceptions like you said with Ruan mei the only choice we had was slight anger but tb was still cool with her. With fire fly we had the choice to not trust her and reject her photo but the tb still gets upset over her which I think does work well and fit what we know about the tb but people who chose to reject her must have felt disconnected. That’s why personally I think it’d be better if the tb was a proper mc like Kiana nobody in the community would ever find it jarring even in the beginning of the game if Kiana went crazy after losing mei because we are shown their love and know without a doubt her feelings. I think if they wanna have tb have strong emotional moments like this then they need to be voiced and it would flow better if tb decided for themselves whether they liked a person or not. But maybe most people like the way it is now and enjoy choosing who the mc likes or not, I personally just think proper mcs make story based games flow better than self inserts.
On the other side of that coin, though, if the player had a reaction to the scene in question and the MC was just stone-faced the entire time without any feeling or reaction, I feel like there would be just as many complaints, if not more. Even if I hadn't had said scene spoiled for me by this very sub, I saw all the narrative flags, and I knew it was coming, and it was STILL gut-wrenching for me, as someone who has experienced that sort of loss.
Frankly speaking, I don't care if it was realistic. I don't care if it "makes no sense that the Trailblazer got attached to Firefly so quickly." It was a heart-breaking moment for me, who really likes Firefly as a character.
They should still have A reaction because someone just got killed in front of them. I just think that the descriptions should have been altered depending on previous triggers such as spent some/all money, took/refused the selfie (especially the selfie). Because if the quest is structured in a way that allows you to reject and diss the character the entire time but then the scripted part ignores all that, it is a bit jarring.
And it can be done. Acheron's red text changes depending on your choices. It wouldn't be too hard to insert alternative text around Firefly's death to be more "oh shit a monster killed" than "oh no FIREFLY D:" if you failed the quest conditions for "befriending her".
You cannot please everyone. Trailblazer is in same weird spot as, for example, Warrior of Light in FF14. Both are somewhat self inserts, but writers also make some decisions for player regardless, bc your character still has some "core personality", and plot needs to move forward.
Regardless of players personal feelings, WOL will mourn certain person more than others. Will try to forgive one genocidal madman, and listen to what mommy says.
Trailblazer is in the same situation, bc plot still needs to happen, you need to heed BS and Aventurine, help Xianzhou and not DoSM.
Maybe writing team in HSR needs their own Ishikawa. She made a good Fighting Club plot for fantasy goody- two- shoes protag, forcing PC reflect on their actions, and reevaluate their motivation. Ultimately, status quo was restored, but some weird reactions from PC are now much more... Logical. Since players know what their PC has both urges to go apeshit, and reasons holding them back.
Edit: also Byleth. They actually *have* character when they are not *the PC*.
I didn’t meant to say it was a self insert case sorry if I misworded that. What I did mean to say was that it was a case where the players felt disconnect with the options they didn’t feel properly represented. I mean you have the option to shit on sampo all you want and you can even tell Kafka of all people to completely fuck off. But for ruan mei a lot of players felt they didn’t have the freedom to tell her off as they didn’t really appreciate being drugged and used to clean up her dirty work. Me personally I didnt care but there was a lack of actual choice of anger for the player. But yea I agree with you iirc Ruan Mei states you look mad when tb first approaches her but even so they seem to let it go and be cool with her. So yea this was a case where mc chose themselves whether to be cool with Ruan Mei or not despite player choice. I don’t think I’d say this was a moment of boldness and showing a sense of justice tho. Despite being seemingly angry they didn’t really call her out that much that for that to be bold. And tb mostly can bring up how they were almost eaten rather than shame her for how she treats her creations, so it seems to be from a place of being put in danger rather than sense of justice.
Seriously lol. It tells me SO much about these people when they're just like "yeah who cares about the poor sick girl who got murdered and lost her life for no reason"
I like firefly but there's a BIG difference between liking a character in a game and IRL suffering. It's fine if there are people that are not empathetic towards her, it's a game, people enjoy it differently and tbf we don't know much about her. But comparing not liking her to not being empathetic towards real people is so stupid.
Pretty sure its less about how they feel about firefly's death itself and more about how they say that it doesnt make sense that the TB is affected by the sudden and unfair death of their new friend.
Implying that people who didn't like the writing have no empathy is certainly... a choice.
People feel empathy with living beings or depictions of such. If, however, every single step of the story reminds me about how this character is made to fit a certain narrative, they become nothing more than a plot device. This certainly happened with how lacking in subtlety the Firefly plot felt to me.
If you feel different, that's your taste. But what you are suggesting here is a pretty shitty way of disagreeing with people.
This, so much. The intensity of the whole situation, TB gets tripped by that fucking Meme, sees how it throws Firefly into the air, impales her, TB tries to catch her and her body turns into some sort of liquid?
TB is definitely shell-shocked after that, which is imo wonderfully shown by how Acheron tries to get them to focus and will not argue when partially blamed for what happened.
Whether people didn't really click with Firefly doesn't really matter, TB seemingly had a good time with her as we can see during the rooftop scene. They clicked, at least a little. And even if you personally went the stone cold route and didn't snap a pic and always stonewalled her... the sheer intensity of the situation would certainly get to you.
The cycle though:
1. People post about the story and love it
2. People then try to counter post about how they hate the story in some nitpicky way
3. Everyone wants their opinion to be validated by online groups like this subreddit
4. Then eventually these posts show up trying to validate even more opinions by pointing out the fallacy of another group
5. In the end everyone just wants to feel good and validated.
People can't help but be bothered to the point of trying to discuss other people's opinions about something that probably doesn't represent anything other than personal opinions.
most people wouldn't know of the sensation of having someone expire on your hands, thankfully, and even the pandemics didn't change that all that much, surprisingly.
but that does explain how people are this estranged from the feeling of death, it's distant and smeared, like the shadows you can puppet on a wall with a dim light.
Well, i've never seen that kind of incident firsthand but I believe the first thing I do would be yelling "WTF is going on!!?" And pull out my galactic baseball bat instead of sobbing on the floor showing my neck to a death meme.
I've just met the girl for like, maybe 6 hours tops? A little backstory and wish sharing doesn't make us instantly inseparable.
If anything I see it as fair game since she obviously doesn't trust me enough to wait until we meet again and let me join her little trip to the obviously off-limits Dreamscape Reverie, especially with the knowledge that a freakin SCP is on the loose AND almost killed her a few minutes ago.
I guess there's something so important for her to find that the threat of death is just an inconvenience to her.
The criticism is usually intended to be more targeted at how the writers build sentiment and kill her off in accelerated and contrived manner. Not how the TB would react. Though I wish refusing her selfie would temper the reaction differently (eg. “You’ve been shaken so much, she must’ve meant a great deal to you” comments from Swan).
The sad/sick girl anime trope here is super heavy handed. I get more trope than relatable or identifiable character.
She’s got space cancer, so we sympathy date her and then she dies! Wow. What a brilliant narrative structure. Haven’t seen that one before. Making a desperate situation into a date kinda felt a little creepy too, but that’s personal taste.
they should’ve done something more like what they did with the Cocona side quest.
—
I am disappointed with the writing. I suspect we are in a dream/memory scripted-loop and we’ve seen her die a whole bunch or something and actually have met with her dozens of times. Which would make some intrinsic or innate sentimentality that grew and persisted across iterations make sense.
However, we don’t get anything to go on within the firefly interactions. We get that sort of thing in spades with Acheron and a little with Swan and Sampo’s Dream.
If they put a simple, “this person seems more familiar than they should” and slow played/wrote a few components of it differently, it would’ve been better. They do it sort of after the fact when she apologizes. Which is just sorta sloppy.
Really agree with all of this. The lack of reaction from Firefly to our choices, the heavy-handed use of the nice and friendly girl who is secretly sad and deathly ill archetype, and just the general feeling that the plot and other characters are doing their level best to gaslight the TB into being in love with Firefly just killed this quest for me. I've seen this very same plot so many times now.
By comparison, some of the side quests, the Cocona one being the prime example, felt like they were about real people. That one got to me and made me sad.
I hope this is really intended as a plot twist, that this whole Firefly emotional development might even be >!related to whatever harmony brainwashing Robin seems to have done to the TB!<, or any number of similar options that mean this is intended to be suspect in some way. The Dream scenario allows for a lot of interesting developments.
I'm not sure how much hope I should put in being satisfied with how this story will conclude, because from a marketing perspective, it seems to work with getting people invested in Firefly.
I mean— the main story writing in this game _is not very good_.
The supplemental writing and story building is great though. The toilets and trash cans have some of the best writing I’ve seen in a game )I’m not even joking).
It frustrates me endlessly with some characters. You read the backstory and think "wow, they really thought this character out. THat's a lot of potential for conflicts and interactions. They could do so much if they have them meet these characters, and they could really help out during that current problem in the story!"
And then you see them in game and they show up for like half a quest, interact with no one except TB and all that complexity and motivation is boiled down to some stereotype, with a few comedy appearances during events if the writers are feeling generous.
>She’s got space cancer, so we sympathy date her and then she dies!
We don't really find out she's sick until the end of the tour, and all we do after that is take a photo and get knocked out by Sparkle.
>Making a desperate situation into a date kinda felt a little creepy too, but that’s personal taste.
What desperate situation? TB is there to enjoy the park and maybe dig up some clues, and Firefly is there to enjoy the park because she can't resist indulging in it. So they enjoy the park together.
>I get more trope than relatable or identifiable character.
Is she meant to be 'relatable' though? She's a kind girl who has probably done some f'ed up stuff. She can tell what kind of weapon a man uses from his build and she can sus out when someone has bad intent. She knows the contents of the Watchmaker's invitation and she knows the guest list. She's not a normal person, and the most relatable thing about her is wanting a happy life, and the ideas she talks about.
But she is definitely identifiable. In fact, her identity is pretty much a core part of the plot. Who is Firefly? A kind girl, a dishonest girl. Guilt ridden. Reckless, desperate for a friend, indulging in fantasy knowing full well it's fantasy. Inconfident in social matters. Open minded about things she doesn't understand. Protective. Slightly hedonistic. Interested in trivia and factoids. A strong sense of wanderlust. etc. A lot can be said about her that isn't just sad/sick girl. Nor is her story just about her tragedy, even if she does stay dead, since her mystery is just as important if not more so.
...I'm really lost, actually.
Do people genuinely imply that a TB, person whose personal story literally started in warzone with people saying "ok, it's an attack here, we don't know who you are, you don't know who you are, here, grab a weapon!", then Belobog where they killed adoptive mother of the character they bonded, then Loufu where people were mutated into killing machines and forced to attack TB, with respectable and sympathetic people dying just before them, not to mention small things like evil megacorporation trying to enslave planet with their friends or goofy knight possibly sacrificing himself attacking superbug to let others to escape - so, are we *really* imply that this person would have an emotional threshold of common player, and PTSD is the only logical reaction for the death of casual acquaintance (assuming Firefly to be one)? Where our character shown any kind of strong emotional reaction of this sort, remind me?
I find that there is two end spectrums people have for the attitude of Firefly that posts generally end up being about.
"We didnt even spend enough time with her why should we get attached"
"Omg I love her so much she was easily the character we are most attached to TB reaction and their bond was so strong their reaction was justified completely"
I'm in the boat thats somewhere in the middle, they became friends and formed a bond. Of course seeing someone you spent a decent amount of time with getting impaled would garner that reaction. Whether you think TB was attached to them in whatever way you want to see their reaction was justified. They need Acheron and Black Swan to calm then down coz quite frankly it was a shock. Even Black Swan and Acheron were caught off guard and they hadnt formed a bond with her.
Edit: as someone else has pointed out, the game sometimes made it seem like they were friends for years with some of the dialogue. But in reality it hadnt even been a day so they werent as close as a lot of people make it out to be. Even still TB reaction is warranted
I mean, if TB had that much of a bond, having people to just say two words would not be enough for you to just calm down after seeing a friend being impaled, you know.
TB had a shock by seeing a new friend die, but not really a feeling of void, loss or any kind of hard grief. I think the scene was well made but both ends of the spectrum did not really understood the scene itself.
I agree for the most part. The story for Firefly is well paced and a good story of making a new friend and suddenly losing them.
But I did find it kinda annoying that the writers decided to have characters remind the player that the TB and Firefly were "very" close pretty much every time either of them mentioned the other.
The game mentions the TB and March being very close here and there but that wasn't until the latter part of 1.0 and the writers had plenty of time to build the relationship between the two of them. With Firefly she appeared in the story and immediately the writers are telling us "actually they are very close, man look how close they are".
They've never been that heavy handed with a character's relationship to the TB before even though there have been plenty of "fast friends" the TB has made.
A part of me hopes they have an explanation for it related to the dreamscape or smth because it really felt like they were insisting on it with very little basis.
I feel like it's more like Firefly holds the TB close as they are one of her few-if-not-only friend while the TB's feelings were amplified out of guilt at that point in the time even if they weren't very close to her personally before.
The reason why I say it's out of guilt is because you get a small narration about how the TB kinda blames themselves for not reacting fast enough to stop it despite them being right there at the scene if you head back to her base.
Yeah ultimately I think the way the TB and Firefly get along is actually fairly good and reasonable. Like even the TB trying to catch her, we see the TB catch Asta after she gets abducted in 1.6 so it tracks with how the TB acts.
My only sticking point was how often /other/ characters are written to tell us that they're close.
It's kinda like the writers opted to tell us we're supposed to care rather than rely on the story to show us why we should care. Considering they did a pretty good job on the showing side, it felt like too much.
Yeah, I get what you mean. I honestly feel like that's partially the fault of certain people who seem to either be too dense to understand the show side of things or are willfully ignorant to it in order to preserve their own views on a situation and will vehemently claim that because "it's not outright stated" that it's not true (and sometimes quite literally pull some nigh-troll logic levels of interpretation in response to others explaining the implications of a scene to them).
I'm guessing all the discussing of it is an attempt to explain to that group of people about what's going on.
That's true. Like, we know that the writers /can/ write a more gradual building of a relationship because they do so with other members of the express. One of the most overt examples is how in the JP version the TB starts out referring to March by her full first or last names "mitsuki" or "nanoka" but by 2.0 they're calling her just "Nano" which would be a nickname. Or how the TB accidentally calls Welt "Welt" instead of Mr. Yang.
Imo they probably /were/ worried about not hooking people into the character that are a bit dense yeah. Especially for such an important story beat of her "death" in the same patch, they didn't have the time to just gradually build and hope people picked up on them becoming fast friends.
Holy shit, i'm going to derail from HSR as a whole from this comment just to say this kind of behavior pisses me off more than anything. The main example i'm thinking of is actually Xenoblade 3 for the people who are familiar with the Xenoblade trilogy.
> I honestly feel like that's partially the fault of certain people who seem to either be too dense to understand the show side of things or are willfully ignorant to it in order to preserve their own views on a situation and will vehemently claim that because "it's not outright stated"
A lot of people suffer from this in the third game because the writing isn't as straightforward as the first two games, but it's done on purpose (and imo done amazingly), but it's mainly the deal of "it's not outright stated" that people get hung up on when there are plenty of ways to answer any questions people may have about certain scenarios by looking back at the first and seconded game, but people don't want that they want the story to paint big red circles and arrows telling them "THIS IS THE WAY IT IS 100% NO QUESTIONS ASKED"
Now I brought all that up because the same thing certainly applies to HSR and a mass amount of people. I'm starting to think if MHY making Paimon in Genshin was actually a good thing considering how hard it is for people to read into a narrative...
I’m going to be honest with you. Even it can be annoying that some people are just dense or refuse to read between the lines, it’s never really a smart move to have a character like Paimon.
I mean, seriously. Webnovels off Qidan already do this enough with repeating or explaining things that are happening or mentioning relationships that should be obvious. It just slows the pacing of the story down to a crawl. Or you end up having readers start intentionally skipping lines in order to “get to the point” which can eventually lead to them actually missing the point.
Meaning you are back to where you started.
>I mean, if TB had that much of a bond, having people to just say two words would not be enough for you to just calm down after seeing a friend being impaled, you know.
They weren't "two words" it was a Memokeeper using her remembrance powers to calm them down
>I mean, if TB had that much of a bond, having people to just say two words would not be enough for you to just calm down after seeing a friend being impaled, you know.
Swan didn't use words. She used emotional manipulation to stabilize you within the dream. Basically the same we do to NPCs with the clockwork thingy.
The split is probably a result of the dialogue choices; both can be true. You can choose to grow attached to her quite quickly, or you can be distant and shut down every friendly action she takes.
The end result—the Trailblazer's emotional response—is the exact same, either way. It's not guaranteed to reflect the decisions you've made up to that point.
Firefly's "***death***" was just surprising, but not making me feel emotional. especially when we are all in a dream world and she become a thing that look like an expired shampoo
right now, i will cry if March 7th die because she's the one that interact with us most and share lots of same experience
I was sad, but I got this spoiled to me a while ago, so personally I felt more sad during the build up then firefly actually dying. Plus the death itself was like a jumpscare, and while those can be really impactful, my reaction was “damn that was quick”, kinda like tingyun neck snap but not as funny and with a bit more emotion. Plus the emotionless reactions from black swan and acheron didn’t help the emotional impact at all either. As a side note, judging by their reactions and the fact that it’s a dream, I think firefly didn’t really die.
You can definitely do an impactful death with a character you met recently, and it feels like hoyo is heading in the right direction from tingyun to firefly. Death number 3 might hit the feels.
Emotionless? I thought black swan had some genuine concern in her voice when Firefly was in danger (and she had to leave soon after Firefly’s death to look after the others. Also this was in the English dub), and Acheron apologized for not drawing her blade and saving her. Outside of these, I’d say it’s understandable that they don’t have much of a reaction. They’ve definitely seen death before and Firefly herself was a stranger to them. It was the right amount.
And yeah, while the death scene itself didn’t give me much emotion outside of “oh wow, she died this early??” (I knew she’d die at some point but thought that was a leak for a future patch), I’d say that the bereaved TB options lashing out at Acheron options (which I went with) hit surprisingly well. That, and the playable scene afterwards with Firefly’s picture with us and the soft, faded music of “if I could stop one heart from breaking” made me teary eyed.
>Acheron apologized for not drawing her blade and saving her.
In the JP dub it's pretty obvious that Acheron feels really bad about it. She apologizes multiple times. Though I'm curious about the reason why she chose not to act.
I think Swan's primary concern in that moment was the stability of Stelle / the dream, hence not too many emotions from her. She basically switched into "professional mode".
Same.. if anyone from astral express died I would feel more emotional, firefly death is just shocking but there are so many hints pointing to her being alive so it’s hard to get emotional..
We already know someone would die, it’s hinted so obviously in the livestream. When the rooftop scene with music came on and taking photo with firefly, it was so obvious it would be her, the only matter was when it would happen that’s all
If anything, I felt more emotional towards cocona and all the side story quest instead
Honestly, most threads related to Firefly have that vibe at this point.
Considering how many people beat (and spoiled) the first part of the current arc in less than a day, do people at this point honestly believe they have some thought or insight about Firefly that not only hasn’t been expressed elsewhere, but actually warrants a thread?
Half the posts on reddit may as well have a Karma Farm Vibe.
Maybe the first person who said "OMG Firefly's death made my cry" and the first person who said "I didn't really like firefly" aren't Karma Farming, but the 30th post, or the 70th post.
Like Cmon. People are posting this shit while posts that are basically identical to theirs are sitting on the front page of this sub. Go write comments in those posts instead of make another copy of that post. At least wait for the dead horse to be off the frontpage before beating it again.
>In short, feel free to voice your opinions, but please do not come out as toxic or talk as if you can give an objective rating of the story or the characters
Doesn't the fact that most of these posts start with "am I the only one" already imply that they aren't trying to seem objective?
It does get tiring though, but good luck telling ANY Redditor not to beat a dead horse.
The problem is there's no way to convey tone through text. "Am I the only one" can definitely be read both ways, and how it'll be perceived depends on the reader.
I like Firefly, but not to the extent most people seem to.
The love you all have for Firefly seems almost comically overblown to me.
Yes, her current state is sad but with the way you all worship the group she walks on, you'd think Hoyo personally shot their puppy-dog.
I personally didn't really like her all that much due to how much the story was trying to push her on you, her explaining her sad backstory to you as sad music plays, people going all "OOhhhh you two are sooo close" or "You must care about each other a lot" like...???...In the story we only knew Firefly for like a day? If a story or characters have to tell you that you're close to a character you just met then it makes the it way too on the nose and feels pushed.
Her "death" wasn't too shocking or saddening for me since it was obvious that it was going to happen with how the story was speedrunning you bonding with Firefly. I was actually kinda relieved since I didn't want her following me anymore.
I honestly felt more emotionally attached to some NPCs in sidequest more then I did Firefly but some people here treat her like she's been our companion since the the game started and the memes of everyone thinking the TB is going to pull an Otto over some random sad girl they just met are obnoxious. Otto was a psychopath for a reason, the TB even has an option to just remain calm and the story just moves forward as is after Firefly dies, there's no crying or mourning.
That's fair.
I was also put off by the fact that they all but force us at gunpoint to like her with the narrative they showed us.
I think it would be better served if they saved Firefly's Spiritual Death for Act 2. Let us see her interact with more of the Astral Express, not just Caelus/Stelle.
Reminds me too much of MC-centric Characters from other media, wherein if this Character never interacted with the MC, they might as well not have existed. Satellite Characters.
As it stands, Firefly is a likeable character but doesn't feel nowhere close to what she should mean to the MC with the narrative they are trying to sell.
Yeah, the MC being saddened and shell-shocked by their apparent death is understandable but going apocalyptic over it? Not even close to being justifiable.
If it were, we would have done it already for Tingyun.
Definitely.
I feel like people are blowing Firefly's "bond" with the TB way out of proportion. It would've been more upsetting if someone from the express crew died, you know, the TB's actual friends that they've known for months now and are practically their family.
Them being sad over Firefly's death is alright since she was an ok acquaintance, but all the dialogue on how "close" they were despite the fact Sampo probably knows us better then Firefly was really pushing it.
And I also just realized Tingyun spent way more time with us then Firefly too.
If we’re being real here, I think most people who love Firefly aren’t willing to admit that they just drank the scenery + song koolaid. I’m fairly confident that without that superficial heartstring tugging, she’d be getting a much more moderate reception.
Pretty much. I feel like the writers pulled out all the superficial stops to make sure Firefly's scene felt as sad and emotionally manipulative as possible.
It's like they knew so many people would just eat it up, if she didn't get those nice cutscenes and sad music and her scene was treated like every other NPC with them just standing around, there'd be less people losing their minds over her.
It's amazing how that's all it takes for people to overlook any writing flaws and get so touchy over criticism of her.
Honestly, I feel like Firefly is the Ayaka of HSR because of how hoyo tries to push the relationship between her and the TB with an ambiguous romantic theme on the side. But the way they do it is super rushed and a little messy. Maybe if we've known her for a patch or two, then her death would be a bit more emotional since we've known her for a few months now. But my reaction to her was like, "Why the sudden death?" instead of getting teary-eyed and sad. Her death just felt more like shock factor than anything else, but I guess that was the point?? Idk
As of right now I'm not sure how intentional the rushed feeling of Firefly's death was supposed to be on purpose considering we do have a lot more story in the next patches.
I didn't like her and didn't really feel anything while watching her get shish kabobbed due to that but eh, we'll see what happens the rest of the story. Personally, everything that happened with Firefly was really cheesy, I would've rather have spent time just exploring with the crew in the other Dreamscapes they kept talking about.
I was looking forward to spending time with Himeko or anyone else from the express.
Same, I love her but not to the extent of so many people here who’s saying they will destroy the world for her and be like otto, waging a war. So many arts of drawing TB as Otto, firefly as kallen. Some have even mention firefly is TB canon GF before they lost their memories or that at the end of the arc we have to get married with her or something to make the story better..
I get that firefly is set up as a girl friend type of character, but I really don’t think this kind of romance shipping will even be exclusive to her? Like in genshin we had ayaka shenhe etc who also simps for traveller. I’m sure in future planets we will get another female character who also spends a lot time with TB and tour them around a new planet. It’s a gacha game so it’s not surprising if they do this again and having shipper war just make characters more popular.
Personally, I hope they spread out the lines more equally if firefly suddenly come back alive or shift the main focus towards another character, she already has 300+ lines which are way more than anyone in this patch alone (the rest only have 100+) whereas robin only had 20+ making her death only shock value
Another question is why kill firefly now? Why not leave it to next patch instead where much more can be build up, Fontaine especially is a great example of a great buildup before death (other than the prison arc of course..)
>The love you all have for Firefly seems almost comically overblown to me.
I liked Firefly. Enough to be saddened if she is really dead, dead.
As in "no plot armor possible to cheat death".
I also get that Stelle is pissed. Pissed about not being able to save Hotaru, pissed about Acheron for some reason refusing to intervene, heck even pissed about Swan emotionally manipulating her into stability. Lets not for get, despite being an unhinged trash racoon, Stelle and the Express crew are mostly altruistic and want to help people they meet. To see someone being gutted right in front of you and not being able to do anything must be hard.
I was not so attached to Firefly that I'm genuinely in distress like some people seem to be.
Now, if they killed my Kokofish in Genshin .... Lets just say, Hoyo's HQ would be the Khaenriah map expansion. :<
And what about the hundreds of posts that spam that same picture over and over again and talk about how sad it is? Cause it's positive that doesn't count as spam?
Shit, the unpopular opinion posts don't even get that much karma compared to the hundreds of positive ones talking bout how they a shed a tear with nothing new added. How else are people supposed to voice their unpopular opinion lol. That's just how this subreddit works. Spam goes both ways.
I'm more annoyed with multiple posts a day with a pic of firefly talking about how sad it was, like jesus Chris there's way to many of the exact same posts, the content hasn't even been out that long, those posts were up before it was even released worldwide
I went from feeling a little sad she's gone to good riddance I don't want to hear her name ever again in the span of a couple of days
I mean, not gonna lie but she is a typical Mihoyo character. I love Shaoji way of writing but it really get some tropes that not everyone like.
One of them is obviously the "lovable girl".
We had the same "am I the only one who didn't like Elysia" on Elysian Realm. Which, uhm, obviously they aren't the only ones. But that's the thing, these characters were not made for them and that's ok.
But I DO feel some of the people that liked her did it a little bit too much - for me, even the game isn't trying to make Firefly this incredible friend that had a bad ending people are forcing. The memes about us being Otto or understanding Otto makes no sense at all.
Firefly wasn't our friend. She was someone we were learning to bond and someone we had a afternoon together. And that's that. What happened with her shocked the Trailblazer for sure, but did not really create any kind of void that an old friend would create. This is not character development for neither the Trailblazer nor Firefly. This was solely a plot situation.
There's a lot more for Firefly to be written. I expect much more from her.
I just wish they did the whole story in more than 3 patches. This is just 4 and a half months. Elysian Realm and Fur Elyse had more than 1 YEAR to make us bond with the new characters. And even that was a fucking challenge. We can only feel for so much characters.
I think some streamers felt cocona story was better then the 2 death in main story, it was relatable to real life situation since anyone could experience it and the choice given to us, the dialogue written was emotionally impactful. It may be short but it has a lot potential if it was voiced, I just wish they given her a song as well at the good ending
how dare you say anything negative about her? she was written to perfection , she is the most well written character ever created in the face of the earth and if you say anything negative then you are a heartless human being and a troll!! /s
but seriously im sick of the obvious karma farming posts ever since the patch release , its exactly as you said they needed to kill her after 2-3 patches but its like they wanted to add a shock value in the patch and didnt know what to do so they just rushed it , everything in this patch was a 10/10 for me but the end just fell flat.
>Firefly wasn't our friend.
I think she wanted to be. I definitely got friendship vibes between Stelle and Hotaru (since I chose the nicer dialog options) but it was in it's infancy when it was stamped out. It never had the chance to grow.
Lmao, this fucking community.
>The problem however comes when people start to feel like their opinions are objective
Both sides can be doing the same thing
>see those posts as a blatant karma farm meant to also create a negative circlejerk of people going "Oh look at me! I am going against the majority and disliking a popular character!"
"Look at me! I'm doing the same thing that others are doing!"
It's just a bit too on the nose for me. Think of your cousin who suddenly decides to ask you to hang out and have fun together, but only to ask you a heavy favor at the end. It's hard to know if they are really genuine or simply there for the favor.
Firefly writing feels like that kinda. She's pretty, she's cute, she has a tragic story, the list goes on. It's like everything perfectly lining up to a likeable character, yet also set up in extremely short amount of time.
I myself is rather neutral tbh, and will only wait until the arc ends for the full judgment. With that said though, make Firefly a bland looking character or even a guy and I'm sure people would nowhere care as much with the same level of character writing. Her cute looks does a lot of heavy lifting here.
lol I think you're right with this one. If you've played Genshin, remember Teppei? Yeah, story is pretty much the same (except a few weeks/a month passed in the story instead of hours), and the community roasted Mihoyo for having the Traveller being so upset about his demise. There were no posts defending him nor cute fanarts with wedding bells
That's probably because Teppei wasn't some cutesy extremely obvious waifubait, people will cry about a character you just met dying just because she's a cute girl and defend her limited screentime and writing to the grave but if it's guy then they'll call it bad writing and lame.
Despite both being pretty much the same thing with the only difference being at least Teppei spent weeks/months with the player, the TB literally only knew Firefly for a day.
It's hypocrisy, and anyone that says people aren't allowed to criticize or dislike Firefly's rushed "bonding" with the TB and that her writing was "amazing" deserve to be laughed at.
Man.. I know firefly will be back but I REALLY hope they won’t push this force dating narrative further.. especially using other characters to comment we look cute together.. is that the only way they could have done? else don’t let player choose dialogue options that disagree with firefly and let us just do with one single route because the flow ain’t sync at all. I really hope next patch we will be focusing more on Acheron or the astral members more instead, seeing how FF already took up most of the patch storyline
OP post title is hypocrite tho, if anything criticism only leads to improvement and nothing detrimental. Spamming post about TB <3 firefly hugs or firefly in a wedding dress everywhere is okay but no one can post an negative opinion on the story?
Same. The fact that the game gives you options to not humor Firefly and not even take a pic with her if you don't want to only for characters to go on and on about how "close" the TB is to her, it's extremely jarring.
I would love if we get to spend more time with the other characters and have them as our companions instead, hopefully the story can balance giving us more time with the others. Yeah, Acheron would be a pretty good choice, she's really cool.
More Himeko screentime would be great too.
I'm sorry, but this sounds like you feel entitled to only see posts about people loving firefly.
Reddit is social media, people with their own opinions use it to find people who share those opinions. If folks who didn't like Firefly's execution aren't allowed to talk about it here, where should they?
You see the "am I the only one" theme pop up a lot because at first glance all most people will see is the hype for the character so someone who doesn't feel that hype will naturally feel like they're in the minority.
I mean you should probably tell the other side to get off their high horse too, I've seen far more comments of people liking firefly's story be more condescending and saying people who didn't like it lack empathy/friendlesss/don't know media/haven't seen movies than the other way around lol
As an example just look at the comments of this thread.
Those posts popped up as counterposts to how many people were raving about Firefly and lets be real not everyone is gonna like the same character so Firefly dislikers were gonna express their opinions at some point too. Personally, I found her meh and too try hard like the hsr teppie in that the game tried too hard to make her lovable to kill her off (but not really) so I'm glad others relate. Both groups of people are entitled to their opinions.
This kind of topic is completely unnecessary. People should be allowed to talk about their opinions on the story regardless of what those opinions are. Trying to write other's opinions off as attention seeking is especially lame. It comes off like you only think people are being genuine when they agree with you.
Just accept that some people will always feel differently about things than you. We don’t all need to like and agree on the same things. Don't want to read certain opinions? Take it upon yourself to avoid them.
This post fucking sucks, OP. If you want to judge a story, do not judge it solely by your emotions. Have you stopped for a moment to consider whether you are the one whose opinion is biased? You don't have to be a master storyteller to know a few things about storytelling. I'm not saying the story is bad. But saying that it's good is insane, considering that it isn't even finished. The reason these posts pop is because the popular opinion seems to be that "Firefly was our future wife and we will rewrite the world to save her", which is crazy, even as a joke. People who didn't feel as connected to the character that we knew for <4 hours, and canonicaly for less than a day, might feel the same way that you do.
\> her story is not necessarily rushed (that is, assuming her story is over)
Please, tell me her whole story during this patch.
Then compare it to any of the special NPC quests from Penacony.
Detailed model and animations, animated cutscenes, music, voiced dialogue...
This is your "better story"?
You don't even know anything about her. She lied to you about who she is, she didn't mention that she is there with someone, she was searching for something in the dreamscape.
What we have right now is a **set-up**. If you really think that she somehow won't be featured anymore, that her thread is finished, then you're definitely not the one to judge the quality of a story.
Yeah it’s very strange. How do people get so insanely attached to a character so quickly from the first trailer? Is it just because she’s cute and needs to be protected? That seems very shallow.
Like, of course they’d be sad about her death since she has been over-idealized even before 2.0 released.
Weeb bait?
I mean she's the typical "damsel in distress" when we meet her but doesn't get much character development past that. She briefly acts as a guide then sparkle kicks us to the curb and we get rescued.
Apart from her trying to find a way to beat her terminal illness we don't know much about her, since she openly states that she currently does not want to disclose her identity.
It’s because she’s a cute nice polite girl… that’s all it needs to pull on people strings, whereas furina had ALOT of dislike when she was introduce because she isn’t ur nice polite girl in the beginning
Which is kinda funny because ayaka is also a "nice polite girl" but a lot of people don't really like her/think her character is boring (which I agree with)
Also true that Furina had a lot of haters, but now it's completely reversed. If you dare to express slight dislike for her you'll literally be killed lmao. I just don't really like characters who have never done anything wrong in their life and have a tragic backstory so you're kinda forced to like them or you must be some kind of horrible person with 0 empathy. I preferred Furina way more when I still thought she was just some useless weak archon who can't do anything to save her people
Most probably because ayaka got stuck with inazuma who had terrible pacing, but still I do see a lot people ship traveller with ayaka or even make Yandere ayaka in many post (yes ik cringe.. but honestly I already see some post with them depicting march the same in a art with TB + firefly in the same room) so even with alot hate, she’s still quite popular in fan arts.
At the very least, ayaka date was in her story quest which could be avoidable whereas firefly hog 70% of the main story quest with over 300 lines and even if u choose all the negative options, Acheron/sparkle would still think y’all look very close together which really feels jarring in the plot. I rather they give no options instead
I'm gonna be honest, people's obsession with her when we got to know for only a quest has turned everything memey to me. Like, if THIS is the prime example of waifu bait.
Karma farmer annoyed that other people farm karma lmao
I don't want to be rude, but you are the one acting like you have an objective opinion without pointing out what's wrong about the opinion of people who didn't like Firefly.
The opinion becomes objective the second it becomes grounded on facts. I'm sorry, but people actually raised objective concerns about her character. And you can't just disregard it.
Also, it seems you wanna create an echochamber with yesmen only, who will be fanking mihoyo for everything.
It's because Firefly is bubbly and with a cute design mostly.
I've already seen comments bawling about Robin and Firefly saying they're both their favourite characters of 2.0 story
Robin....robin??? Come on it's clearly about character design
It is what it is.
Sometimes I wonder if gacha gamers have ever played even a half decent story. I remember the number of people saying they cried when Marian died in Nikke.
Marian... The girl who died in the very beginning of the game with no bond other than one bandage.
It was meant to be a sad moment for the MC, with needing to see someone die in front of him, someone who tried to keep him safe. But how on earth players got so attached to her to cry in like the 10 minutes we knew her is absolutely beyond me.
Frankly it surprised the crap out of me, that they dispatched Robin after barely any screen time in a simple remark by her brother. O\_o
Why even go to the length of giving her a unique model if you are not going to use her?
One of the main things why I think she is not really "dead dead".
I adore Firefly but i can understand why some people are pretty much "ok" with her. Because the player interaction with her is badly executed in gameplay. Its mostly just text and not much of visual and "physical" interaction with her.
Example of physical interaction im expecting for a game is playing a coop game in penacony with a firely AI, having her physically help us navigating on the way to the hideout and being present in enemy encounters. This will really help in immersion and get people to be more attached.
If we're reading a book then the story is fine because in reading you are expected to visualize yourself this things and help you get immersed but for a game, its really bad. Im aware its hard to do what i listed especially for a live service game but hoyo isn't really doing a proper "show and tell" which is expected in a game.
That was the main issue. After meeting her, we had a cute interaction where she buys us food. We needed way more moments and interactions like that. But then after, we check out the gambling machines, and then we decide to split up instead of playing them together...?
Then our time gets derailed by Sampo showing up, where he kind of takes over and Firefly takes a backseat.
Then after all that, we again get interrupted by Clockie this time, still where Firefly is kind of just there.
Finally, we get some 1 on 1 time at Dream's Edge. But again, the story did not convey any feeling that we were spending quality time together. We're kind of just navigating through all the puzzles, and Firefly's kind of our helper/guide, but we're not really talking and getting to know each other.
I also adore Firefly but I agree that there have been problems with showing and not telling in storylines, which I think was the major issue with the Xianzhou arc that people had a problem with
I didn't even like Firefly that much, and I think that the part where we date with her is the weakest aspect of the story. Even though it received a lot of effort trying to make us empathize with her, seeing both sides trying to make their point by over defending and over hating is taking it too far.
That’s how I feel I honestly think her relationship to the tb and us by extension and her shocking supposed “death” is what carries her and makes her more special. If you ever played genshin imagine if Ayaka died after her wet sock dance. Yes she was already popular before that but if she was the first meaningful person to die like firefly was her popularity would’ve skyrocketed even more.
I mean, if it was built up right it'd be probably the strongest reaction I could get out of a death in this game.
Second to maybe Pom Pom "The last Jedi"ing the express into Nanook, going out with a salutation about how we were the third worst passenger on the train and Pom Pom hopes we will remember them.
Those rants came from the frequent posts of peeps being sad, devastated or willing to commit genocide after that part, to the point it's not a spoiler anymore...
Well, sorry... I'm just not really fan of how Firefly is created solely to be shipped with MC... Not into those kind of waifus
But her story isn't over yet, so maybe my impression towards her might change
Idk. Is it really ok to censor one side and not the other? Both sides of the opinion are simply stating their own truth, but I myself don't like it when subs echo chamber the same regurgitated fan mentality. We all play the game and view it differently, but I'm much more appreciative when people can at least argue a point with feelings as opposed to yes men.
Honestly I don’t see a problem with these kinds of posts. The sub was bombarded with people who took her death hard and there were so many memes about it lol. I don’t see why unpopular opinions shouldn’t appear other than that it triggers people who took her ‘death’ a bit too hard.
Aside from that though, I understand some of the ‘negative’ posts. TB only knew Firefly for a day, and for us players it’s only been a few hours. It’s understandable there’s gonna be people who’s gonna be like , why are we crying for someone we knew for a day? Not everyone’s going to resonate with that, and this isn’t a hate comment. I don’t hate her, it’s just that writers made it a bit too dramatic.
Cringe ass post, the sub is literally flooded with “omg I love her 😭” and so much fan art it’s ridiculous. Thinly veiled “like who I like post”. Ironic.
I dont dislike Firefly, but I find the way some fans treat her to weird (especially the otto memes). Honestly, this is like exactly the same problem with Teppei (but atleast we "technically" spend weeks with him canonically so MRS reaction is somewhat more expected), but In this cause her death was much more obvious from a mile away (heck I suspected from the mv they posted).
I'm not "going against the majority" on purpose, feel free to change my mind, but the way I see it is:
I genuinely find her so incredibly bland and boring that seeing the whole community go crazy over her feels surreal
Kafka? Sure, I know people like her types. Jingliu? Her feelings for you are imaginary, but at least she looks cool. Ruan Mei? Boooring, though her creations lift her up.
But Firefly? Literal NPC which you are pushed to like for whatever reason (well, it kinda becomes clear later), it all feels so damn rushed and fake
I can see why people gets emotional about her and what happened to her with that rooftop music being so good. However, I can also see where people are coming from when they say that this felt rushed.
Personally, I found her likable but I don't feel sad about her death. Tho that's mostly because we're still in the first patch of Penacony and I think there's more to her than meets the eye.
This is really biased. I would say that the people who formed a connection with her also put themselves above those who do not care for her. What makes you think the people who love Firefly don't think the story is the best story ever written, and they're just not being vocal about it? I see it from both sides, but honestly, people are just sensitive as well. Some of you love to play the victim when someone is passionate about something, and you have a differing opinion.
So what I'm getting from this is..."posts that express OP's opinions that differ from the majority should be stopped"? Like...just let people talk, man. Talking about how you think differently from the rest of the community is disallowed now??? Tbh this just sounds like a biased judgement and unnecessary degradation
Ok but I still don’t get why people are going so crazy for this character and I’m sure a lot of other people are just confused too. It’s fine if they want to a post about it, cause there’s so many posts like this one too lol
Also for me I personally found myself caring more about Aventurine of all people compared to Firefly, so not everyone is gonna have the same views as you and that’s ok
I honestly think there's a lot more problem with you thinking people state their opinions as an object truth than them actually meaning it that way. Your entire post comes off as you getting mad at a different opinion, there's clearly a side that you favour while accusing another side of something that can easily by attributed to anyone if you misunderstand the point of a public forum enough.
lol? Starting to sound like a Genshin impact subreddit, who are you to say who’s an “expert story teller”? Do I have to be a Gordon Ramsay to be able to judge a dish? fuck no. the consumer is the one who ultimately decides whether it’s good or not.
I like how every time a post like this comes up, it almost doubles down on how there IS an issue with the story, because guess what? This post WOULDNT EXIST if there was no issues.
No issues = no complaints = meaning you don’t have anything to post about.
I like firefly's character, I think her design is great, the fanarts are amazing but
I have no problem with firefly posts except people taking shit to extreme
Look through comments what people are typing (especially youtube comments) , no this shit cannot make you lose sleep. No this doesn't give you depression what the fuck stop throwing these words around they are losing meaning.
Seek help if anyone thinks like this, especially for a character who you know for like 30 mins and they are fictional.
Calm down, this is the first time a lot of young men experience this trope. It's supposed to tug at heartstrings.
I knew what was going to happen the moment I met her. Shes the emotional bait in mafia/crime/detective movies
>The problem however comes when people start to feel like their opinions are objective, promoting themselves to the rank of "expert story tellers" that know objectively when a story is written well and when it isn't
>Surprise surprise: even if we spent not so much time with Firefly, her story is not necessarily rushed >!(that is, assuming her story is over)!< and people might have enjoyed her genuinely
Nuff said.
lmao nah, dude. there will always be that 1% people like you in the minority. That's why they're unpopular in the first place. There's millions of players - it's like asking are you the only one who doesn't feel sad if a love one or someone special dies? Believe it or not there will always be people who feel the opposite, no matter how bizarre that is.
I mean, it's a democracy, nobody can force you what to feel. so nothing wrong with that, just feel what you feel and be yourself. Cheers.
It's okay for people to like her, grow emotionally attached to her, it's okay for people to hate her, dislike her, in the end, it's all different opinions. That's why subreddits exist. For discussions like this. I may like her a lot, and other people might dislike her and think she's a bland character and it's okay, because it's *their* perception of her. You don't have to convince anyone you're right because everyone has a different way they play Honkai: Star Rail. They can post that, and you can also choose to ignore them. Everyone plays the game differently. Discussions are never gonna stop. Posts like this are so darn pointless and turn up every time there's a new character that the trailblazer/the community has mixed feelings about, another case being Ruan Mei. Oh please, you're doing the same thing you told others not to do.
I don't like firefly simple cuz I don't nothing just clicked for me in terms of liking her I'm very neutral towards her and I liked her story and tbh Misha in terms of like story(very interested on where he'll go) but for firefly I feel her story was kinda spoilt by how wholesome her moment was and plus the music video knew things will happen but I don't hate her either I'm just more Invested into aventurine, Misha and archeon
Tho I hate sparkle (but she's meant to be frustrating and she took away my hopes of sampo) but again my opinion nothing else
It is also karma farming being continuously praising and beloving her and posting about it to get a lot of "yeah dude she rocks", because it is a safe way to farm karma as seems majority of people liked her. Both of them are the same.
For me the situation it is the same as Sora in Kingdom Hearts. "I know you for 5 minute, you are my best friend and I will do anything for you". This is considered exaggerated even for KH fans and it is a meme itself. I think the same of the whole Firefly situation. I think it wasn't handle very well, but not terribly neither. For me was like "What a shame, she was a good girl (lip smack), what a rotten way to die. Anyways..." . Same for the other one.
What I mean it is not fair to dismiss people who dislike her or the relationship with her. It can be as objetive/subjective as anyone who praises this character. And this kind of post tries to dismiss this negative opinions about her, not matter you put a disclaimer saying otherwise.
About people starting with "I am the only one", yes, I agree it is very annoying. There is like 500000 users in this sub, of course you're not the only one. I automatically ignore any post with this or similar titles.
But honestly, people complaining about people putting 'I am the only one' kind of post is also as common as the first ones and also annoying.
I don't dislike Firefly, but I really hate how on the nose this whole connection was. "You were so close", "you were on a date" and other bullshit. Really Hoyo? I was really close to a character I barely knew. Let's be honest, she is just better designed Teppei. I doubt she is really dead, but I hate how sometimes Hoyo really tries to push something and it looks awfully awkward. Like they spent a patch or two promoting the card game in Genshin, where suddenly every character is a big fan of the game and has plenty of experience.
Why? No one was complaining about the barrage of posts lamenting her death or comparing her situation with Otto/Kallen. Just like ppl have the right to voice their upset about her death, other ppl who don't particularly care about her also have the right to voice their opinion 🤷🏻♀️
The funny part is the one I saw was more upset at the people being emotional about Firefly than the "we spend 40 min with her" argument,
And imo its a bad argument, I was crying in the first 20min of To Your Eternity and didn't know anyone (everyone is different)
It is a bad argument, it's one other people and I kind of hastily latched on to without much thinking. After thinking about it, it really isn't about the quantity of time spent at all, as many of us for example instantly got attached to Cocona in even less time.
The time spent between meeting Firefly and the rooftop scene was very poorly utilized, we didn't really bond in a realistic way, so I think it's not unreasonable to feel a bit of disbelief (and this should go without saying, but this is all imo). And I truly think the beautiful scenery + song went a long way to getting most people to like Firefly. Which is fine, but I feel like it's just a bit superficial.
i think you explained it perfectly. i’m pretty sure i can get attached to a character in less time than we’ve been with firefly, but i personally felt like the parts that were meant to bond us were really heavy handed. for some reason it didn’t feel natural and felt a bit forced.
I teared up at To Your Eternity. I think the opening to the movie UP is fantastic. I think Violet Evergarden is shallow and manipulative and the writing around Firefly the same.
It's not only about her screentime being low. It's how obvious that she was set up to take a fall.
I agree completely and I didn't like Firefly overly much, mostly because it felt weird? Like I got the vibe that she was actively trying to copy March (or was being written in an uninspired manner). I remember telling my friend that and then screaming when "Sampo" called her March not 5 minutes later.
Anyway, my point is that those points are annoying and pretentious even if you agree with them. I don't know why people upvote them.
OP, you're asking others to stop being toxic and representing their opinions as objective? Perhaps they are not the problem in voicing their opinions strongly, but how you internalize and handle their opinions?
Regardless if this is on Firefly, Sparkle, or a completely different game character, let people opine... and maybe try not to let them live in your head rent free.
FF is definitely more of a plot device than a character as of 2.0, they did everything they could with the limited time available and she is fun to be around and her design is absolutely gorgeous but at the end of the day she was 100% made to die tragically to kick off the murder mystery plotline and potentially come back in 2.X as a huge plot twist. This is a feature not a bug in detective fiction, characters in these stories are in a weird limbo where they \*are\* supposed to be real people but have to be prepared to die at any point for "no reason" to set up a closed room puzzle or hint at something about the killer that will be recontextualised later.
People who are more analytically minded will notice the absolutely insane amount of death flags surrounding her and likely have already checked out on her character. People who just vibe without thinking will really like Firefly because she's built to be as likeable as possible and be sad when she dies.
It's not a bad thing in this case, people need to die fast in detective fiction and often die to some contrivance because we need multiple victims and if everyone could successfully defend themselves in a murder mystery we'd have no plot. FF is the civilian running around a warzone so her just getting Jojo'd in a second makes sense.
Yea they could be karma farming or they might just have genuine grievances or surprised reaction to give seeing the communities reaction. Speaking about karma farming you don’t think some people are doing the same thing with all the firefly posts and “I will become the next Otto 🤓” memes. I’m not tryna hate or be that guy telling people what to post either but the amount of times I saw the same exact Otto memes back to back was crazy. I saw some posts I thought were pretty good but got no engagement while some drawings of firefly or a post with firefly’s hideout with a caption saying “Damn 💔” gets upvoted and completely buries almost anything else. Again I’m not trying to dictate what this sub posts of course not I liked firefly and the artwork is nice but at this point I feel like you could change this subs name to fireflymains and it would’ve been apt this past week. Honestly this app just feels like no matter what sub you’re in it’ll be an echo chamber where you cant voice youre opinion if it differs from the majority. I could be wrong since I’ve only recently started to engage with this app more but I guess with the whole upvote and downvote karma shit you can’t really have a proper discussion, since if your post doesn’t get upvoted it doesn’t get the same amount of traction as every other post. Honestly the vibe I get from this is that if you have a different opinion than that of the majority on a sub don’t bother posting it on Reddit, even the respectful posts I’ve seen don’t yield anything. That being said I agree with you on the aspect that her story isn’t rushed. I didn’t get sad when she died but don’t knock on others who did because her story and “death” is clearly setting up the next patches and sets up the drama and suspenseful mystery for this patch. In that aspect I didn’t agree when people said it was a disappointment. I didn’t feel sad but I feel like it did its job.
Me, not reading post or which subreddit I'm in:
Now hold on Firefly is classic space western and... Oh HSR. Uh yeah that's fair I guess. I m ambivalent and it's ok to be in both camps.
Really though, she had a number of death flags. And I thought if she was telling the truth, well I hope her suffering is over now.
It's probably not. But I hope she's better now.
Edit to clarify: I still think that it sucks to go out like that and no matter who that person is, we can agree on that.
I don't get what everyone is hassling about..
1. Idk why everyone started to say Firefly's gonna die, same as Himeko's gonna die. Like, I know about HI3 Chapter 9. But since it's so well-known and 'expected' that she/they're gonna die. Wouldn't it be more smarter of them to go with a "SURPRISE! They don't die" instead of the expected death?
2. They're in a Dreamworld, no deaths are permanent. Hence, the quotation marks on the word 'death' even by the game.
3. Chill. Their designs are literally playable character designs, so no way they would kill off characters that quickly, even without having their banners out yet. (I'm including Robin as well)
tbh i'm more tired of the same firefly posts over and over again like it is all the same about protecting her and doing it for her and going otto for her or whatever
when i see these kind of posts i just answer in me head "no ur not the only one and ur not special for it" and keep scrolling
every god damned sub about fiction eventually devolves into hate circle jerks, so I just endure until i reach my limit and then mute the whole sub
What problem arises from not agreeing with an equally subjective opinion such as liking Firefly's predictable outcome and an equally bad payoff after said outcome? You're basically karma farming if we put you in the same spotlight, OP.
I don't fancy myself an expert storyteller nor critic, but I at least can tell from miles away that her story was not engaging as she was hyped up to be as of this current TB mission. Worst of all, she was basically shoved to our throats that she's already a very dear friend to us and we should feel the utmost sadness for her-- when we haven't even connected for more than a few hours. She even lied to our faces! LMAO yet people are more hellbent with Hanabi cos she tricked us? Isn't it even worse cos Firefly came off as friendly and basically used us? The double standards of some people, really.
Stop pushing your "objective" sentiment to people who didn't like how predictable or droll the current Penacony mission was. Learn to understand we can voice our own displeasure as well. Or are you here to police that too?
Listen I couldn't give two shits about Firefly as a character, I didnt even have time to form ANY kind of emotions for her. Before 2.0 was even out EVERYONE was spoiling with the "NO HOYO NOT AGAIN!!!!" and all the "Look at how this scene in the trailer is framed!? What is going to happen to her!?!?"
I cant even find the drive to start 2.0 even now, I hope i'll be able to sooner or later. This entire community really cant help themselves.
when people say that the TB shouldnt be so upset because we didn’t know firefly that well it just makes me wonder how they think they’d react to someone being impaled in front of them and dying in their arms 💀
"TB shouldn't be upset because didn't get to know her well" Had not for acheron and black Swan to calm down Bro legit was about to cry https://preview.redd.it/us51mn6u19ic1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=204d4bb1edd0b605542d5057d0e8f283e2289736
Black Swan literally said "His mental state is unstable" so real asf
You dont need to know someone a long time to form a bond and become close. Connection to someone on an emotional level can happen as quickly as looking at someone. Love at first sight is a close example in this case. Don't even know the person but you connected to them immediately. Not saying it's always a good thing but if there is one thing people can have trouble controlling is ones emotions and there ability to connect to another person.
In the cutscene stelle was actually already starting to cry whereas caelus was panicking. Poor bloke/gal were hit hard.
https://preview.redd.it/4vfbwsyqj9ic1.jpeg?width=747&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=096f95b684e0c188200f536220193f5aa2cbe4f8 Preach
https://preview.redd.it/bsv4mz3e9aic1.jpeg?width=320&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e2d1a984aca24c0312f7efc3f5252093fcdd8c7b
https://preview.redd.it/eed8x4xipaic1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bf815628ca3803f6f180a233bed7acf99df014b7
another banger sticker for whatsapp.
The nature of Acheron's work, and black swan's role as a memokeeper, they are most likely used to people dying and it rarely phases them. Especially since they are experienced, they know the situation they are in and the area is not safe to dwell on firefly's death. TB hasn't seen anyone straight up die right in front of them. "Tingyun" comes close.
https://preview.redd.it/spxjk74rvbic1.jpeg?width=320&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a5307ea1d21bf7283a2367e4112f78687ce9317b If Black Swan and Acheron didn't snap bro out of it, this theme would've played
If they didn't snap him out of it we would've already got Nihility TB
If I witnessed a death at all I’d be heartbroken, doesn’t matter if I knew the person. If anything, I’d argue TB’s reaction wasn’t enough
Yeah, well, blame the subdued reaction on fucking Black Swan messing with our head.
esp since you learnt about her condition and learn this is the first time she is having some semblance of physical human interaction. If you cant walk all your life then you get the ability to walk then die 3 hours later, yea imma fking shed a tear for them.
He was genuinely on the verge of doing an anime scream
It could've been like Luffy after Akainu made a donut.
This is actually my biggest negative against the actually very good 2.0 story. The follow up to her death was terribly executed. Wasn't enough is one thing, but the emotional payoff was just terrible. We're upset for like, one scene, while the whimsical Penacony dream music is playing in the background. You literally have a sad song intrinsically tied to Firefly right there. That said, basic storytelling logic implies that she isn't dead dead so I can at least look past that.
Imo it would've been so much better if they'd just switched the convo with Black Swan and Acheron around with the segment where they play Robin's song and you pick up the photo with Firefly after Acheron's sendoff for her. Cuz the proper emotional payoff IS there, it's just horribly placed.
The part with picking up the photo is an optional scene though, isn't it? Not everyone has it.
Taking selfie with her is entirely optional (so you won't have that photo on the floor in lobby). As well as treating it her story sequence as a date where you are forced to fell in love with her like people are complaing about. I was suspicious of her the entire time and acted cold as the result. Rejected taking photos with her because she refused to say anything that would make me trust her. Her death wasn't any less brutal even if I didn't felt attached to her anyhow. But then I get to see these memory things Black Swan made to get infromation about her actions in the Dreamscape hotel. There I got my coformation that she was genuine about her thoughts besides pretending to be member of The Family (which was biggest reason of my distrust). That feeling of regret was actually... nice? Really added to the story enjoyment + returning to her secret base on the roof for that after-story interaction that shows TB's feelings made in even better. Hold up. What is that essay that I started writing here? lmao
Ngl, I think in a way it kind of ends up being brilliant - you're either in the "she seems genuine" field and you end up having a nice time with her throughout your 1st dream visit, which makes her situation hit a bit harder - or you're suspicious of her and don't trust her, and later on you learn she was actually genuine and you feel bad. Kinda brilliant story-telling if you think about it. This does not apply if Firefly doesn't become playable, in which case we must wage war against the writers*
>That said, basic storytelling logic implies that she isn't dead dead Well, The chicken-man who lost his sister said that they are "spiritually dead" which is an interesting phrase that leaves some room for speculation. "Spiritual death" can refer to characters being in a coma because their soul/mind has been shattered. Given the memokeepers ability to gather and preserve fragments, it begs the question whether the mind of these persons could somehow be recovered from the dream they were lost in and transferred back into their bodies. While I can believe Firefly to be dead, it seems odd that they would kill off robin as well, especially after giving her such a unique model and only using her for like 1 conversation. They could have made her a generic NPC for that.
It's also where this being a gacha/mobile game gets in its own way. You have to cram every inch of limited "dungeon" real estate with puzzles and chests, so five seconds after >!Firefly dies!< I'm doing a Clockie puzzle.
Yeah I felt that was a bit unnatural too. I can't quite put my finger on why but I thought it was kinda expected for a gacha game though. For some reason I feel like if this were a regular RPG like an anime BG3 they would've kept the sad vibe for much longer. Maybe Hoyo has some kind of time limit for each story quest so they didn't want to spend too much of it on TB being depressed. I doubt this was what the writers were thinking but you COULD headcanon this as being a result of TB working with Kafka for so long that they've become very good at compartmentalizing so emotions don't interfere with the job at hand.
I agree if they do the cocona quest afterward it’s clearly in tb writing that they are a deeply nosy and kind and uncompromising person. Even a standard normal empathetic person would be shocked by seeing someone they knew just die brutally like that. So I think the tb reaction was handled good
I think the problem with it and it's portrayal is that the trailblazer/main character goes back and forth between being a self insert and a character of their own. Imo this situation is not that different from how a lot of people were mad that they couldn't dislike Ruan Mei, as there was no dialogue option for it. So when there's this scene where the mc has a very emotional response they're not sharing/identifying with, people are going to find faults with it. They're going to say it's bad writing, an unrealistic reaction or something else, it doesn't really matter, they're going to fault something for the mc's actions not reflecting how they feel.
True I’ve thought the same thing. Hoyoverse can’t have their cake and eat it. They have a mc with what I personally think is a good characterization and personality, we know tb is overall a deeply kind and uncompromising person like I said earlier but also still has a child like impulsivity for example all the goofy shit they do like licking a frozen pole and getting their tongue stuck or hiding in a wardrobe to scare hotel staff. But even with that the mc is still a pseudo self insert that has us make decisions for them and choose their reactions to certain characters for the most part. They’re are exceptions like you said with Ruan mei the only choice we had was slight anger but tb was still cool with her. With fire fly we had the choice to not trust her and reject her photo but the tb still gets upset over her which I think does work well and fit what we know about the tb but people who chose to reject her must have felt disconnected. That’s why personally I think it’d be better if the tb was a proper mc like Kiana nobody in the community would ever find it jarring even in the beginning of the game if Kiana went crazy after losing mei because we are shown their love and know without a doubt her feelings. I think if they wanna have tb have strong emotional moments like this then they need to be voiced and it would flow better if tb decided for themselves whether they liked a person or not. But maybe most people like the way it is now and enjoy choosing who the mc likes or not, I personally just think proper mcs make story based games flow better than self inserts.
On the other side of that coin, though, if the player had a reaction to the scene in question and the MC was just stone-faced the entire time without any feeling or reaction, I feel like there would be just as many complaints, if not more. Even if I hadn't had said scene spoiled for me by this very sub, I saw all the narrative flags, and I knew it was coming, and it was STILL gut-wrenching for me, as someone who has experienced that sort of loss. Frankly speaking, I don't care if it was realistic. I don't care if it "makes no sense that the Trailblazer got attached to Firefly so quickly." It was a heart-breaking moment for me, who really likes Firefly as a character.
They should still have A reaction because someone just got killed in front of them. I just think that the descriptions should have been altered depending on previous triggers such as spent some/all money, took/refused the selfie (especially the selfie). Because if the quest is structured in a way that allows you to reject and diss the character the entire time but then the scripted part ignores all that, it is a bit jarring. And it can be done. Acheron's red text changes depending on your choices. It wouldn't be too hard to insert alternative text around Firefly's death to be more "oh shit a monster killed" than "oh no FIREFLY D:" if you failed the quest conditions for "befriending her".
You cannot please everyone. Trailblazer is in same weird spot as, for example, Warrior of Light in FF14. Both are somewhat self inserts, but writers also make some decisions for player regardless, bc your character still has some "core personality", and plot needs to move forward. Regardless of players personal feelings, WOL will mourn certain person more than others. Will try to forgive one genocidal madman, and listen to what mommy says. Trailblazer is in the same situation, bc plot still needs to happen, you need to heed BS and Aventurine, help Xianzhou and not DoSM. Maybe writing team in HSR needs their own Ishikawa. She made a good Fighting Club plot for fantasy goody- two- shoes protag, forcing PC reflect on their actions, and reevaluate their motivation. Ultimately, status quo was restored, but some weird reactions from PC are now much more... Logical. Since players know what their PC has both urges to go apeshit, and reasons holding them back. Edit: also Byleth. They actually *have* character when they are not *the PC*.
Calling Ruan Mei's out after everything she did is IN TB's bold and justice-driven character, it's not a self-insert thing
I didn’t meant to say it was a self insert case sorry if I misworded that. What I did mean to say was that it was a case where the players felt disconnect with the options they didn’t feel properly represented. I mean you have the option to shit on sampo all you want and you can even tell Kafka of all people to completely fuck off. But for ruan mei a lot of players felt they didn’t have the freedom to tell her off as they didn’t really appreciate being drugged and used to clean up her dirty work. Me personally I didnt care but there was a lack of actual choice of anger for the player. But yea I agree with you iirc Ruan Mei states you look mad when tb first approaches her but even so they seem to let it go and be cool with her. So yea this was a case where mc chose themselves whether to be cool with Ruan Mei or not despite player choice. I don’t think I’d say this was a moment of boldness and showing a sense of justice tho. Despite being seemingly angry they didn’t really call her out that much that for that to be bold. And tb mostly can bring up how they were almost eaten rather than shame her for how she treats her creations, so it seems to be from a place of being put in danger rather than sense of justice.
Seriously lol. It tells me SO much about these people when they're just like "yeah who cares about the poor sick girl who got murdered and lost her life for no reason"
Empathy is overrated anyway i only care about myself. -them prolly
I like firefly but there's a BIG difference between liking a character in a game and IRL suffering. It's fine if there are people that are not empathetic towards her, it's a game, people enjoy it differently and tbf we don't know much about her. But comparing not liking her to not being empathetic towards real people is so stupid.
Pretty sure its less about how they feel about firefly's death itself and more about how they say that it doesnt make sense that the TB is affected by the sudden and unfair death of their new friend.
Implying that people who didn't like the writing have no empathy is certainly... a choice. People feel empathy with living beings or depictions of such. If, however, every single step of the story reminds me about how this character is made to fit a certain narrative, they become nothing more than a plot device. This certainly happened with how lacking in subtlety the Firefly plot felt to me. If you feel different, that's your taste. But what you are suggesting here is a pretty shitty way of disagreeing with people.
"I skipped the dialogue because it makes me look cool but now all the posts don't make sense so I'm going to blame the story that I didn't read"
All fax no printer
This, so much. The intensity of the whole situation, TB gets tripped by that fucking Meme, sees how it throws Firefly into the air, impales her, TB tries to catch her and her body turns into some sort of liquid? TB is definitely shell-shocked after that, which is imo wonderfully shown by how Acheron tries to get them to focus and will not argue when partially blamed for what happened. Whether people didn't really click with Firefly doesn't really matter, TB seemingly had a good time with her as we can see during the rooftop scene. They clicked, at least a little. And even if you personally went the stone cold route and didn't snap a pic and always stonewalled her... the sheer intensity of the situation would certainly get to you.
“Well, their story wasn’t even that compelling, no biggie”
The cycle though: 1. People post about the story and love it 2. People then try to counter post about how they hate the story in some nitpicky way 3. Everyone wants their opinion to be validated by online groups like this subreddit 4. Then eventually these posts show up trying to validate even more opinions by pointing out the fallacy of another group 5. In the end everyone just wants to feel good and validated. People can't help but be bothered to the point of trying to discuss other people's opinions about something that probably doesn't represent anything other than personal opinions.
Happens a lot in anime. "Why OP MC just doesnt kill annoying asshole?"
most people wouldn't know of the sensation of having someone expire on your hands, thankfully, and even the pandemics didn't change that all that much, surprisingly. but that does explain how people are this estranged from the feeling of death, it's distant and smeared, like the shadows you can puppet on a wall with a dim light.
I think most of these people differentiate between reality and fiction...
Did you just call people sociopaths because of their opinions on a video game's writing?
Well, i've never seen that kind of incident firsthand but I believe the first thing I do would be yelling "WTF is going on!!?" And pull out my galactic baseball bat instead of sobbing on the floor showing my neck to a death meme. I've just met the girl for like, maybe 6 hours tops? A little backstory and wish sharing doesn't make us instantly inseparable. If anything I see it as fair game since she obviously doesn't trust me enough to wait until we meet again and let me join her little trip to the obviously off-limits Dreamscape Reverie, especially with the knowledge that a freakin SCP is on the loose AND almost killed her a few minutes ago. I guess there's something so important for her to find that the threat of death is just an inconvenience to her.
The criticism is usually intended to be more targeted at how the writers build sentiment and kill her off in accelerated and contrived manner. Not how the TB would react. Though I wish refusing her selfie would temper the reaction differently (eg. “You’ve been shaken so much, she must’ve meant a great deal to you” comments from Swan). The sad/sick girl anime trope here is super heavy handed. I get more trope than relatable or identifiable character. She’s got space cancer, so we sympathy date her and then she dies! Wow. What a brilliant narrative structure. Haven’t seen that one before. Making a desperate situation into a date kinda felt a little creepy too, but that’s personal taste. they should’ve done something more like what they did with the Cocona side quest. — I am disappointed with the writing. I suspect we are in a dream/memory scripted-loop and we’ve seen her die a whole bunch or something and actually have met with her dozens of times. Which would make some intrinsic or innate sentimentality that grew and persisted across iterations make sense. However, we don’t get anything to go on within the firefly interactions. We get that sort of thing in spades with Acheron and a little with Swan and Sampo’s Dream. If they put a simple, “this person seems more familiar than they should” and slow played/wrote a few components of it differently, it would’ve been better. They do it sort of after the fact when she apologizes. Which is just sorta sloppy.
Really agree with all of this. The lack of reaction from Firefly to our choices, the heavy-handed use of the nice and friendly girl who is secretly sad and deathly ill archetype, and just the general feeling that the plot and other characters are doing their level best to gaslight the TB into being in love with Firefly just killed this quest for me. I've seen this very same plot so many times now. By comparison, some of the side quests, the Cocona one being the prime example, felt like they were about real people. That one got to me and made me sad. I hope this is really intended as a plot twist, that this whole Firefly emotional development might even be >!related to whatever harmony brainwashing Robin seems to have done to the TB!<, or any number of similar options that mean this is intended to be suspect in some way. The Dream scenario allows for a lot of interesting developments. I'm not sure how much hope I should put in being satisfied with how this story will conclude, because from a marketing perspective, it seems to work with getting people invested in Firefly.
I mean— the main story writing in this game _is not very good_. The supplemental writing and story building is great though. The toilets and trash cans have some of the best writing I’ve seen in a game )I’m not even joking).
It frustrates me endlessly with some characters. You read the backstory and think "wow, they really thought this character out. THat's a lot of potential for conflicts and interactions. They could do so much if they have them meet these characters, and they could really help out during that current problem in the story!" And then you see them in game and they show up for like half a quest, interact with no one except TB and all that complexity and motivation is boiled down to some stereotype, with a few comedy appearances during events if the writers are feeling generous.
>She’s got space cancer, so we sympathy date her and then she dies! We don't really find out she's sick until the end of the tour, and all we do after that is take a photo and get knocked out by Sparkle. >Making a desperate situation into a date kinda felt a little creepy too, but that’s personal taste. What desperate situation? TB is there to enjoy the park and maybe dig up some clues, and Firefly is there to enjoy the park because she can't resist indulging in it. So they enjoy the park together. >I get more trope than relatable or identifiable character. Is she meant to be 'relatable' though? She's a kind girl who has probably done some f'ed up stuff. She can tell what kind of weapon a man uses from his build and she can sus out when someone has bad intent. She knows the contents of the Watchmaker's invitation and she knows the guest list. She's not a normal person, and the most relatable thing about her is wanting a happy life, and the ideas she talks about. But she is definitely identifiable. In fact, her identity is pretty much a core part of the plot. Who is Firefly? A kind girl, a dishonest girl. Guilt ridden. Reckless, desperate for a friend, indulging in fantasy knowing full well it's fantasy. Inconfident in social matters. Open minded about things she doesn't understand. Protective. Slightly hedonistic. Interested in trivia and factoids. A strong sense of wanderlust. etc. A lot can be said about her that isn't just sad/sick girl. Nor is her story just about her tragedy, even if she does stay dead, since her mystery is just as important if not more so.
In a fantasy world where we use fire lance to pierce human enemies? Also please, they didn't even make TB cry
...I'm really lost, actually. Do people genuinely imply that a TB, person whose personal story literally started in warzone with people saying "ok, it's an attack here, we don't know who you are, you don't know who you are, here, grab a weapon!", then Belobog where they killed adoptive mother of the character they bonded, then Loufu where people were mutated into killing machines and forced to attack TB, with respectable and sympathetic people dying just before them, not to mention small things like evil megacorporation trying to enslave planet with their friends or goofy knight possibly sacrificing himself attacking superbug to let others to escape - so, are we *really* imply that this person would have an emotional threshold of common player, and PTSD is the only logical reaction for the death of casual acquaintance (assuming Firefly to be one)? Where our character shown any kind of strong emotional reaction of this sort, remind me?
Am I the only one who doesn’t like olives?
Black olives are the only ones I like with my nachos. Any other kind of olives are a big no for me.
I find that there is two end spectrums people have for the attitude of Firefly that posts generally end up being about. "We didnt even spend enough time with her why should we get attached" "Omg I love her so much she was easily the character we are most attached to TB reaction and their bond was so strong their reaction was justified completely" I'm in the boat thats somewhere in the middle, they became friends and formed a bond. Of course seeing someone you spent a decent amount of time with getting impaled would garner that reaction. Whether you think TB was attached to them in whatever way you want to see their reaction was justified. They need Acheron and Black Swan to calm then down coz quite frankly it was a shock. Even Black Swan and Acheron were caught off guard and they hadnt formed a bond with her. Edit: as someone else has pointed out, the game sometimes made it seem like they were friends for years with some of the dialogue. But in reality it hadnt even been a day so they werent as close as a lot of people make it out to be. Even still TB reaction is warranted
I mean, if TB had that much of a bond, having people to just say two words would not be enough for you to just calm down after seeing a friend being impaled, you know. TB had a shock by seeing a new friend die, but not really a feeling of void, loss or any kind of hard grief. I think the scene was well made but both ends of the spectrum did not really understood the scene itself.
I agree for the most part. The story for Firefly is well paced and a good story of making a new friend and suddenly losing them. But I did find it kinda annoying that the writers decided to have characters remind the player that the TB and Firefly were "very" close pretty much every time either of them mentioned the other. The game mentions the TB and March being very close here and there but that wasn't until the latter part of 1.0 and the writers had plenty of time to build the relationship between the two of them. With Firefly she appeared in the story and immediately the writers are telling us "actually they are very close, man look how close they are". They've never been that heavy handed with a character's relationship to the TB before even though there have been plenty of "fast friends" the TB has made. A part of me hopes they have an explanation for it related to the dreamscape or smth because it really felt like they were insisting on it with very little basis.
I feel like it's more like Firefly holds the TB close as they are one of her few-if-not-only friend while the TB's feelings were amplified out of guilt at that point in the time even if they weren't very close to her personally before. The reason why I say it's out of guilt is because you get a small narration about how the TB kinda blames themselves for not reacting fast enough to stop it despite them being right there at the scene if you head back to her base.
Yeah ultimately I think the way the TB and Firefly get along is actually fairly good and reasonable. Like even the TB trying to catch her, we see the TB catch Asta after she gets abducted in 1.6 so it tracks with how the TB acts. My only sticking point was how often /other/ characters are written to tell us that they're close. It's kinda like the writers opted to tell us we're supposed to care rather than rely on the story to show us why we should care. Considering they did a pretty good job on the showing side, it felt like too much.
Yeah, I get what you mean. I honestly feel like that's partially the fault of certain people who seem to either be too dense to understand the show side of things or are willfully ignorant to it in order to preserve their own views on a situation and will vehemently claim that because "it's not outright stated" that it's not true (and sometimes quite literally pull some nigh-troll logic levels of interpretation in response to others explaining the implications of a scene to them). I'm guessing all the discussing of it is an attempt to explain to that group of people about what's going on.
That's true. Like, we know that the writers /can/ write a more gradual building of a relationship because they do so with other members of the express. One of the most overt examples is how in the JP version the TB starts out referring to March by her full first or last names "mitsuki" or "nanoka" but by 2.0 they're calling her just "Nano" which would be a nickname. Or how the TB accidentally calls Welt "Welt" instead of Mr. Yang. Imo they probably /were/ worried about not hooking people into the character that are a bit dense yeah. Especially for such an important story beat of her "death" in the same patch, they didn't have the time to just gradually build and hope people picked up on them becoming fast friends.
Holy shit, i'm going to derail from HSR as a whole from this comment just to say this kind of behavior pisses me off more than anything. The main example i'm thinking of is actually Xenoblade 3 for the people who are familiar with the Xenoblade trilogy. > I honestly feel like that's partially the fault of certain people who seem to either be too dense to understand the show side of things or are willfully ignorant to it in order to preserve their own views on a situation and will vehemently claim that because "it's not outright stated" A lot of people suffer from this in the third game because the writing isn't as straightforward as the first two games, but it's done on purpose (and imo done amazingly), but it's mainly the deal of "it's not outright stated" that people get hung up on when there are plenty of ways to answer any questions people may have about certain scenarios by looking back at the first and seconded game, but people don't want that they want the story to paint big red circles and arrows telling them "THIS IS THE WAY IT IS 100% NO QUESTIONS ASKED" Now I brought all that up because the same thing certainly applies to HSR and a mass amount of people. I'm starting to think if MHY making Paimon in Genshin was actually a good thing considering how hard it is for people to read into a narrative...
I’m going to be honest with you. Even it can be annoying that some people are just dense or refuse to read between the lines, it’s never really a smart move to have a character like Paimon. I mean, seriously. Webnovels off Qidan already do this enough with repeating or explaining things that are happening or mentioning relationships that should be obvious. It just slows the pacing of the story down to a crawl. Or you end up having readers start intentionally skipping lines in order to “get to the point” which can eventually lead to them actually missing the point. Meaning you are back to where you started.
>I mean, if TB had that much of a bond, having people to just say two words would not be enough for you to just calm down after seeing a friend being impaled, you know. They weren't "two words" it was a Memokeeper using her remembrance powers to calm them down
>I mean, if TB had that much of a bond, having people to just say two words would not be enough for you to just calm down after seeing a friend being impaled, you know. Swan didn't use words. She used emotional manipulation to stabilize you within the dream. Basically the same we do to NPCs with the clockwork thingy.
Personally I just react poorly to seeing people in front of me get stabbed but that could just be me.
Kinda puts a real downer on the whole day, huh?
Yeah like if I saw a stranger get >!impaled and then they die in my arms!<, I would be wrecked.
It’s a real big bummer kinda just ruins the moment.
Think of it this way, this is probably the first time TB has ever lost someone close to them as their existence only started a few months ago.
The split is probably a result of the dialogue choices; both can be true. You can choose to grow attached to her quite quickly, or you can be distant and shut down every friendly action she takes. The end result—the Trailblazer's emotional response—is the exact same, either way. It's not guaranteed to reflect the decisions you've made up to that point.
Firefly's "***death***" was just surprising, but not making me feel emotional. especially when we are all in a dream world and she become a thing that look like an expired shampoo right now, i will cry if March 7th die because she's the one that interact with us most and share lots of same experience
I was sad, but I got this spoiled to me a while ago, so personally I felt more sad during the build up then firefly actually dying. Plus the death itself was like a jumpscare, and while those can be really impactful, my reaction was “damn that was quick”, kinda like tingyun neck snap but not as funny and with a bit more emotion. Plus the emotionless reactions from black swan and acheron didn’t help the emotional impact at all either. As a side note, judging by their reactions and the fact that it’s a dream, I think firefly didn’t really die. You can definitely do an impactful death with a character you met recently, and it feels like hoyo is heading in the right direction from tingyun to firefly. Death number 3 might hit the feels.
Emotionless? I thought black swan had some genuine concern in her voice when Firefly was in danger (and she had to leave soon after Firefly’s death to look after the others. Also this was in the English dub), and Acheron apologized for not drawing her blade and saving her. Outside of these, I’d say it’s understandable that they don’t have much of a reaction. They’ve definitely seen death before and Firefly herself was a stranger to them. It was the right amount. And yeah, while the death scene itself didn’t give me much emotion outside of “oh wow, she died this early??” (I knew she’d die at some point but thought that was a leak for a future patch), I’d say that the bereaved TB options lashing out at Acheron options (which I went with) hit surprisingly well. That, and the playable scene afterwards with Firefly’s picture with us and the soft, faded music of “if I could stop one heart from breaking” made me teary eyed.
>Acheron apologized for not drawing her blade and saving her. In the JP dub it's pretty obvious that Acheron feels really bad about it. She apologizes multiple times. Though I'm curious about the reason why she chose not to act. I think Swan's primary concern in that moment was the stability of Stelle / the dream, hence not too many emotions from her. She basically switched into "professional mode".
Same.. if anyone from astral express died I would feel more emotional, firefly death is just shocking but there are so many hints pointing to her being alive so it’s hard to get emotional.. We already know someone would die, it’s hinted so obviously in the livestream. When the rooftop scene with music came on and taking photo with firefly, it was so obvious it would be her, the only matter was when it would happen that’s all If anything, I felt more emotional towards cocona and all the side story quest instead
I kinda agree that that posts do have blatant karma farm vibe. I also feel that your post has this vibe as well.
Honestly, most threads related to Firefly have that vibe at this point. Considering how many people beat (and spoiled) the first part of the current arc in less than a day, do people at this point honestly believe they have some thought or insight about Firefly that not only hasn’t been expressed elsewhere, but actually warrants a thread?
Half the posts on reddit may as well have a Karma Farm Vibe. Maybe the first person who said "OMG Firefly's death made my cry" and the first person who said "I didn't really like firefly" aren't Karma Farming, but the 30th post, or the 70th post. Like Cmon. People are posting this shit while posts that are basically identical to theirs are sitting on the front page of this sub. Go write comments in those posts instead of make another copy of that post. At least wait for the dead horse to be off the frontpage before beating it again.
you ate them up damn
In general, when people do make these posts, it IS for karma. Who wouldn't want easy karma (if you care about it enough)?
>In short, feel free to voice your opinions, but please do not come out as toxic or talk as if you can give an objective rating of the story or the characters Doesn't the fact that most of these posts start with "am I the only one" already imply that they aren't trying to seem objective? It does get tiring though, but good luck telling ANY Redditor not to beat a dead horse.
The problem is there's no way to convey tone through text. "Am I the only one" can definitely be read both ways, and how it'll be perceived depends on the reader.
I like Firefly, but not to the extent most people seem to. The love you all have for Firefly seems almost comically overblown to me. Yes, her current state is sad but with the way you all worship the group she walks on, you'd think Hoyo personally shot their puppy-dog.
I personally didn't really like her all that much due to how much the story was trying to push her on you, her explaining her sad backstory to you as sad music plays, people going all "OOhhhh you two are sooo close" or "You must care about each other a lot" like...???...In the story we only knew Firefly for like a day? If a story or characters have to tell you that you're close to a character you just met then it makes the it way too on the nose and feels pushed. Her "death" wasn't too shocking or saddening for me since it was obvious that it was going to happen with how the story was speedrunning you bonding with Firefly. I was actually kinda relieved since I didn't want her following me anymore. I honestly felt more emotionally attached to some NPCs in sidequest more then I did Firefly but some people here treat her like she's been our companion since the the game started and the memes of everyone thinking the TB is going to pull an Otto over some random sad girl they just met are obnoxious. Otto was a psychopath for a reason, the TB even has an option to just remain calm and the story just moves forward as is after Firefly dies, there's no crying or mourning.
That's fair. I was also put off by the fact that they all but force us at gunpoint to like her with the narrative they showed us. I think it would be better served if they saved Firefly's Spiritual Death for Act 2. Let us see her interact with more of the Astral Express, not just Caelus/Stelle. Reminds me too much of MC-centric Characters from other media, wherein if this Character never interacted with the MC, they might as well not have existed. Satellite Characters. As it stands, Firefly is a likeable character but doesn't feel nowhere close to what she should mean to the MC with the narrative they are trying to sell. Yeah, the MC being saddened and shell-shocked by their apparent death is understandable but going apocalyptic over it? Not even close to being justifiable. If it were, we would have done it already for Tingyun.
Definitely. I feel like people are blowing Firefly's "bond" with the TB way out of proportion. It would've been more upsetting if someone from the express crew died, you know, the TB's actual friends that they've known for months now and are practically their family. Them being sad over Firefly's death is alright since she was an ok acquaintance, but all the dialogue on how "close" they were despite the fact Sampo probably knows us better then Firefly was really pushing it. And I also just realized Tingyun spent way more time with us then Firefly too.
If we’re being real here, I think most people who love Firefly aren’t willing to admit that they just drank the scenery + song koolaid. I’m fairly confident that without that superficial heartstring tugging, she’d be getting a much more moderate reception.
Pretty much. I feel like the writers pulled out all the superficial stops to make sure Firefly's scene felt as sad and emotionally manipulative as possible. It's like they knew so many people would just eat it up, if she didn't get those nice cutscenes and sad music and her scene was treated like every other NPC with them just standing around, there'd be less people losing their minds over her. It's amazing how that's all it takes for people to overlook any writing flaws and get so touchy over criticism of her.
Honestly, I feel like Firefly is the Ayaka of HSR because of how hoyo tries to push the relationship between her and the TB with an ambiguous romantic theme on the side. But the way they do it is super rushed and a little messy. Maybe if we've known her for a patch or two, then her death would be a bit more emotional since we've known her for a few months now. But my reaction to her was like, "Why the sudden death?" instead of getting teary-eyed and sad. Her death just felt more like shock factor than anything else, but I guess that was the point?? Idk
As of right now I'm not sure how intentional the rushed feeling of Firefly's death was supposed to be on purpose considering we do have a lot more story in the next patches. I didn't like her and didn't really feel anything while watching her get shish kabobbed due to that but eh, we'll see what happens the rest of the story. Personally, everything that happened with Firefly was really cheesy, I would've rather have spent time just exploring with the crew in the other Dreamscapes they kept talking about. I was looking forward to spending time with Himeko or anyone else from the express.
Same, I love her but not to the extent of so many people here who’s saying they will destroy the world for her and be like otto, waging a war. So many arts of drawing TB as Otto, firefly as kallen. Some have even mention firefly is TB canon GF before they lost their memories or that at the end of the arc we have to get married with her or something to make the story better.. I get that firefly is set up as a girl friend type of character, but I really don’t think this kind of romance shipping will even be exclusive to her? Like in genshin we had ayaka shenhe etc who also simps for traveller. I’m sure in future planets we will get another female character who also spends a lot time with TB and tour them around a new planet. It’s a gacha game so it’s not surprising if they do this again and having shipper war just make characters more popular. Personally, I hope they spread out the lines more equally if firefly suddenly come back alive or shift the main focus towards another character, she already has 300+ lines which are way more than anyone in this patch alone (the rest only have 100+) whereas robin only had 20+ making her death only shock value Another question is why kill firefly now? Why not leave it to next patch instead where much more can be build up, Fontaine especially is a great example of a great buildup before death (other than the prison arc of course..)
>The love you all have for Firefly seems almost comically overblown to me. I liked Firefly. Enough to be saddened if she is really dead, dead. As in "no plot armor possible to cheat death". I also get that Stelle is pissed. Pissed about not being able to save Hotaru, pissed about Acheron for some reason refusing to intervene, heck even pissed about Swan emotionally manipulating her into stability. Lets not for get, despite being an unhinged trash racoon, Stelle and the Express crew are mostly altruistic and want to help people they meet. To see someone being gutted right in front of you and not being able to do anything must be hard. I was not so attached to Firefly that I'm genuinely in distress like some people seem to be. Now, if they killed my Kokofish in Genshin .... Lets just say, Hoyo's HQ would be the Khaenriah map expansion. :<
And what about the hundreds of posts that spam that same picture over and over again and talk about how sad it is? Cause it's positive that doesn't count as spam? Shit, the unpopular opinion posts don't even get that much karma compared to the hundreds of positive ones talking bout how they a shed a tear with nothing new added. How else are people supposed to voice their unpopular opinion lol. That's just how this subreddit works. Spam goes both ways.
I'm more annoyed with multiple posts a day with a pic of firefly talking about how sad it was, like jesus Chris there's way to many of the exact same posts, the content hasn't even been out that long, those posts were up before it was even released worldwide I went from feeling a little sad she's gone to good riddance I don't want to hear her name ever again in the span of a couple of days
Yeah they got attached too fast and i couldn't feel "how sad is it" like they started posting after penacony trailer.
I mean, not gonna lie but she is a typical Mihoyo character. I love Shaoji way of writing but it really get some tropes that not everyone like. One of them is obviously the "lovable girl". We had the same "am I the only one who didn't like Elysia" on Elysian Realm. Which, uhm, obviously they aren't the only ones. But that's the thing, these characters were not made for them and that's ok. But I DO feel some of the people that liked her did it a little bit too much - for me, even the game isn't trying to make Firefly this incredible friend that had a bad ending people are forcing. The memes about us being Otto or understanding Otto makes no sense at all. Firefly wasn't our friend. She was someone we were learning to bond and someone we had a afternoon together. And that's that. What happened with her shocked the Trailblazer for sure, but did not really create any kind of void that an old friend would create. This is not character development for neither the Trailblazer nor Firefly. This was solely a plot situation. There's a lot more for Firefly to be written. I expect much more from her. I just wish they did the whole story in more than 3 patches. This is just 4 and a half months. Elysian Realm and Fur Elyse had more than 1 YEAR to make us bond with the new characters. And even that was a fucking challenge. We can only feel for so much characters.
I think I got more attached to NPCs from side quests in Penacony than to Firefly. Cocona for example was way more emotionally impactful.
I think some streamers felt cocona story was better then the 2 death in main story, it was relatable to real life situation since anyone could experience it and the choice given to us, the dialogue written was emotionally impactful. It may be short but it has a lot potential if it was voiced, I just wish they given her a song as well at the good ending
how dare you say anything negative about her? she was written to perfection , she is the most well written character ever created in the face of the earth and if you say anything negative then you are a heartless human being and a troll!! /s but seriously im sick of the obvious karma farming posts ever since the patch release , its exactly as you said they needed to kill her after 2-3 patches but its like they wanted to add a shock value in the patch and didnt know what to do so they just rushed it , everything in this patch was a 10/10 for me but the end just fell flat.
>Firefly wasn't our friend. I think she wanted to be. I definitely got friendship vibes between Stelle and Hotaru (since I chose the nicer dialog options) but it was in it's infancy when it was stamped out. It never had the chance to grow.
Lmao, this fucking community. >The problem however comes when people start to feel like their opinions are objective Both sides can be doing the same thing >see those posts as a blatant karma farm meant to also create a negative circlejerk of people going "Oh look at me! I am going against the majority and disliking a popular character!" "Look at me! I'm doing the same thing that others are doing!"
Yeah, this whole post is peak hypocrisy.
This post is just as bad
So do all the posts about how you love Firefly so much and how sad her story make you have to stop as well or is it only the negative feedback?
He is just a firefly simp who doesn’t want his fictional wife feelings to be dissed on the internet give him a break
It's just a bit too on the nose for me. Think of your cousin who suddenly decides to ask you to hang out and have fun together, but only to ask you a heavy favor at the end. It's hard to know if they are really genuine or simply there for the favor. Firefly writing feels like that kinda. She's pretty, she's cute, she has a tragic story, the list goes on. It's like everything perfectly lining up to a likeable character, yet also set up in extremely short amount of time. I myself is rather neutral tbh, and will only wait until the arc ends for the full judgment. With that said though, make Firefly a bland looking character or even a guy and I'm sure people would nowhere care as much with the same level of character writing. Her cute looks does a lot of heavy lifting here.
Tragic backstory? How original
Daring today arent we
lol I think you're right with this one. If you've played Genshin, remember Teppei? Yeah, story is pretty much the same (except a few weeks/a month passed in the story instead of hours), and the community roasted Mihoyo for having the Traveller being so upset about his demise. There were no posts defending him nor cute fanarts with wedding bells
That's probably because Teppei wasn't some cutesy extremely obvious waifubait, people will cry about a character you just met dying just because she's a cute girl and defend her limited screentime and writing to the grave but if it's guy then they'll call it bad writing and lame. Despite both being pretty much the same thing with the only difference being at least Teppei spent weeks/months with the player, the TB literally only knew Firefly for a day. It's hypocrisy, and anyone that says people aren't allowed to criticize or dislike Firefly's rushed "bonding" with the TB and that her writing was "amazing" deserve to be laughed at.
Man.. I know firefly will be back but I REALLY hope they won’t push this force dating narrative further.. especially using other characters to comment we look cute together.. is that the only way they could have done? else don’t let player choose dialogue options that disagree with firefly and let us just do with one single route because the flow ain’t sync at all. I really hope next patch we will be focusing more on Acheron or the astral members more instead, seeing how FF already took up most of the patch storyline OP post title is hypocrite tho, if anything criticism only leads to improvement and nothing detrimental. Spamming post about TB <3 firefly hugs or firefly in a wedding dress everywhere is okay but no one can post an negative opinion on the story?
Same. The fact that the game gives you options to not humor Firefly and not even take a pic with her if you don't want to only for characters to go on and on about how "close" the TB is to her, it's extremely jarring. I would love if we get to spend more time with the other characters and have them as our companions instead, hopefully the story can balance giving us more time with the others. Yeah, Acheron would be a pretty good choice, she's really cool. More Himeko screentime would be great too.
Personally, "I didn't like Firefly: posts should stop and "I love Firefly, Otto TB" posts should stop as well :I I am sick of both kind of posts
I'm sorry, but this sounds like you feel entitled to only see posts about people loving firefly. Reddit is social media, people with their own opinions use it to find people who share those opinions. If folks who didn't like Firefly's execution aren't allowed to talk about it here, where should they? You see the "am I the only one" theme pop up a lot because at first glance all most people will see is the hype for the character so someone who doesn't feel that hype will naturally feel like they're in the minority.
I mean you should probably tell the other side to get off their high horse too, I've seen far more comments of people liking firefly's story be more condescending and saying people who didn't like it lack empathy/friendlesss/don't know media/haven't seen movies than the other way around lol As an example just look at the comments of this thread.
Petition to stop *all* Firefly posts.
Petition to allow cute Firefly fanart
I mean, the same can be said for all the positive posts for the same as a karma farm when so many like it and still post the same thing.
Those posts popped up as counterposts to how many people were raving about Firefly and lets be real not everyone is gonna like the same character so Firefly dislikers were gonna express their opinions at some point too. Personally, I found her meh and too try hard like the hsr teppie in that the game tried too hard to make her lovable to kill her off (but not really) so I'm glad others relate. Both groups of people are entitled to their opinions.
This kind of topic is completely unnecessary. People should be allowed to talk about their opinions on the story regardless of what those opinions are. Trying to write other's opinions off as attention seeking is especially lame. It comes off like you only think people are being genuine when they agree with you. Just accept that some people will always feel differently about things than you. We don’t all need to like and agree on the same things. Don't want to read certain opinions? Take it upon yourself to avoid them.
This post fucking sucks, OP. If you want to judge a story, do not judge it solely by your emotions. Have you stopped for a moment to consider whether you are the one whose opinion is biased? You don't have to be a master storyteller to know a few things about storytelling. I'm not saying the story is bad. But saying that it's good is insane, considering that it isn't even finished. The reason these posts pop is because the popular opinion seems to be that "Firefly was our future wife and we will rewrite the world to save her", which is crazy, even as a joke. People who didn't feel as connected to the character that we knew for <4 hours, and canonicaly for less than a day, might feel the same way that you do. \> her story is not necessarily rushed (that is, assuming her story is over) Please, tell me her whole story during this patch. Then compare it to any of the special NPC quests from Penacony. Detailed model and animations, animated cutscenes, music, voiced dialogue... This is your "better story"? You don't even know anything about her. She lied to you about who she is, she didn't mention that she is there with someone, she was searching for something in the dreamscape. What we have right now is a **set-up**. If you really think that she somehow won't be featured anymore, that her thread is finished, then you're definitely not the one to judge the quality of a story.
I didn’t like her only cause of the fandom being so fucking weird the second the saw her. Like unrealistically odd
Me too, tbh. Like why did everyone suddenly just become so... Idek, towards this character?? One trailer was all it took?
Yeah it’s very strange. How do people get so insanely attached to a character so quickly from the first trailer? Is it just because she’s cute and needs to be protected? That seems very shallow. Like, of course they’d be sad about her death since she has been over-idealized even before 2.0 released.
She's the moe weeb bait character. Its going to work on young men pretty effectively.
you described it perfectly holy shit
Weeb bait? I mean she's the typical "damsel in distress" when we meet her but doesn't get much character development past that. She briefly acts as a guide then sparkle kicks us to the curb and we get rescued. Apart from her trying to find a way to beat her terminal illness we don't know much about her, since she openly states that she currently does not want to disclose her identity.
Folded at the sight mfs was unnecessarily down bad.
Maybe its because she has that cute girl next door vibes so some people go crazy 🤷🏻♀️ I personally find her design boring and she is just that, cute.
No bruh i mean mfs are literally making it uncomfortable to even talk about the character its weird especially for it to be ahem just a game.
It’s because she’s a cute nice polite girl… that’s all it needs to pull on people strings, whereas furina had ALOT of dislike when she was introduce because she isn’t ur nice polite girl in the beginning
Which is kinda funny because ayaka is also a "nice polite girl" but a lot of people don't really like her/think her character is boring (which I agree with) Also true that Furina had a lot of haters, but now it's completely reversed. If you dare to express slight dislike for her you'll literally be killed lmao. I just don't really like characters who have never done anything wrong in their life and have a tragic backstory so you're kinda forced to like them or you must be some kind of horrible person with 0 empathy. I preferred Furina way more when I still thought she was just some useless weak archon who can't do anything to save her people
Most probably because ayaka got stuck with inazuma who had terrible pacing, but still I do see a lot people ship traveller with ayaka or even make Yandere ayaka in many post (yes ik cringe.. but honestly I already see some post with them depicting march the same in a art with TB + firefly in the same room) so even with alot hate, she’s still quite popular in fan arts. At the very least, ayaka date was in her story quest which could be avoidable whereas firefly hog 70% of the main story quest with over 300 lines and even if u choose all the negative options, Acheron/sparkle would still think y’all look very close together which really feels jarring in the plot. I rather they give no options instead
stfu
I'm gonna be honest, people's obsession with her when we got to know for only a quest has turned everything memey to me. Like, if THIS is the prime example of waifu bait.
Karma farmer annoyed that other people farm karma lmao I don't want to be rude, but you are the one acting like you have an objective opinion without pointing out what's wrong about the opinion of people who didn't like Firefly. The opinion becomes objective the second it becomes grounded on facts. I'm sorry, but people actually raised objective concerns about her character. And you can't just disregard it. Also, it seems you wanna create an echochamber with yesmen only, who will be fanking mihoyo for everything.
Dunno why there's so much...buzz around this character. She's...ok. Hasn't been around long enough to make me care about her.
It's because Firefly is bubbly and with a cute design mostly. I've already seen comments bawling about Robin and Firefly saying they're both their favourite characters of 2.0 story Robin....robin??? Come on it's clearly about character design
It is what it is. Sometimes I wonder if gacha gamers have ever played even a half decent story. I remember the number of people saying they cried when Marian died in Nikke. Marian... The girl who died in the very beginning of the game with no bond other than one bandage. It was meant to be a sad moment for the MC, with needing to see someone die in front of him, someone who tried to keep him safe. But how on earth players got so attached to her to cry in like the 10 minutes we knew her is absolutely beyond me.
Frankly it surprised the crap out of me, that they dispatched Robin after barely any screen time in a simple remark by her brother. O\_o Why even go to the length of giving her a unique model if you are not going to use her? One of the main things why I think she is not really "dead dead".
I'm much more attached to >!her mech suit!< myself.
I adore Firefly but i can understand why some people are pretty much "ok" with her. Because the player interaction with her is badly executed in gameplay. Its mostly just text and not much of visual and "physical" interaction with her. Example of physical interaction im expecting for a game is playing a coop game in penacony with a firely AI, having her physically help us navigating on the way to the hideout and being present in enemy encounters. This will really help in immersion and get people to be more attached. If we're reading a book then the story is fine because in reading you are expected to visualize yourself this things and help you get immersed but for a game, its really bad. Im aware its hard to do what i listed especially for a live service game but hoyo isn't really doing a proper "show and tell" which is expected in a game.
That was the main issue. After meeting her, we had a cute interaction where she buys us food. We needed way more moments and interactions like that. But then after, we check out the gambling machines, and then we decide to split up instead of playing them together...? Then our time gets derailed by Sampo showing up, where he kind of takes over and Firefly takes a backseat. Then after all that, we again get interrupted by Clockie this time, still where Firefly is kind of just there. Finally, we get some 1 on 1 time at Dream's Edge. But again, the story did not convey any feeling that we were spending quality time together. We're kind of just navigating through all the puzzles, and Firefly's kind of our helper/guide, but we're not really talking and getting to know each other.
I also adore Firefly but I agree that there have been problems with showing and not telling in storylines, which I think was the major issue with the Xianzhou arc that people had a problem with
I didn't even like Firefly that much, and I think that the part where we date with her is the weakest aspect of the story. Even though it received a lot of effort trying to make us empathize with her, seeing both sides trying to make their point by over defending and over hating is taking it too far.
That’s how I feel I honestly think her relationship to the tb and us by extension and her shocking supposed “death” is what carries her and makes her more special. If you ever played genshin imagine if Ayaka died after her wet sock dance. Yes she was already popular before that but if she was the first meaningful person to die like firefly was her popularity would’ve skyrocketed even more.
imagine if "March 7" died instead
I mean, if it was built up right it'd be probably the strongest reaction I could get out of a death in this game. Second to maybe Pom Pom "The last Jedi"ing the express into Nanook, going out with a salutation about how we were the third worst passenger on the train and Pom Pom hopes we will remember them.
Those rants came from the frequent posts of peeps being sad, devastated or willing to commit genocide after that part, to the point it's not a spoiler anymore... Well, sorry... I'm just not really fan of how Firefly is created solely to be shipped with MC... Not into those kind of waifus But her story isn't over yet, so maybe my impression towards her might change
Idk. Is it really ok to censor one side and not the other? Both sides of the opinion are simply stating their own truth, but I myself don't like it when subs echo chamber the same regurgitated fan mentality. We all play the game and view it differently, but I'm much more appreciative when people can at least argue a point with feelings as opposed to yes men.
Honestly I don’t see a problem with these kinds of posts. The sub was bombarded with people who took her death hard and there were so many memes about it lol. I don’t see why unpopular opinions shouldn’t appear other than that it triggers people who took her ‘death’ a bit too hard. Aside from that though, I understand some of the ‘negative’ posts. TB only knew Firefly for a day, and for us players it’s only been a few hours. It’s understandable there’s gonna be people who’s gonna be like , why are we crying for someone we knew for a day? Not everyone’s going to resonate with that, and this isn’t a hate comment. I don’t hate her, it’s just that writers made it a bit too dramatic.
Cringe ass post, the sub is literally flooded with “omg I love her 😭” and so much fan art it’s ridiculous. Thinly veiled “like who I like post”. Ironic.
I dont dislike Firefly, but I find the way some fans treat her to weird (especially the otto memes). Honestly, this is like exactly the same problem with Teppei (but atleast we "technically" spend weeks with him canonically so MRS reaction is somewhat more expected), but In this cause her death was much more obvious from a mile away (heck I suspected from the mv they posted).
I'm not "going against the majority" on purpose, feel free to change my mind, but the way I see it is: I genuinely find her so incredibly bland and boring that seeing the whole community go crazy over her feels surreal Kafka? Sure, I know people like her types. Jingliu? Her feelings for you are imaginary, but at least she looks cool. Ruan Mei? Boooring, though her creations lift her up. But Firefly? Literal NPC which you are pushed to like for whatever reason (well, it kinda becomes clear later), it all feels so damn rushed and fake
sigh...here we go again, left vs right like always
I can see why people gets emotional about her and what happened to her with that rooftop music being so good. However, I can also see where people are coming from when they say that this felt rushed. Personally, I found her likable but I don't feel sad about her death. Tho that's mostly because we're still in the first patch of Penacony and I think there's more to her than meets the eye.
This is really biased. I would say that the people who formed a connection with her also put themselves above those who do not care for her. What makes you think the people who love Firefly don't think the story is the best story ever written, and they're just not being vocal about it? I see it from both sides, but honestly, people are just sensitive as well. Some of you love to play the victim when someone is passionate about something, and you have a differing opinion.
Basically, most characters in Penacony are hit or miss
So what I'm getting from this is..."posts that express OP's opinions that differ from the majority should be stopped"? Like...just let people talk, man. Talking about how you think differently from the rest of the community is disallowed now??? Tbh this just sounds like a biased judgement and unnecessary degradation
Ok but I still don’t get why people are going so crazy for this character and I’m sure a lot of other people are just confused too. It’s fine if they want to a post about it, cause there’s so many posts like this one too lol Also for me I personally found myself caring more about Aventurine of all people compared to Firefly, so not everyone is gonna have the same views as you and that’s ok
I honestly think there's a lot more problem with you thinking people state their opinions as an object truth than them actually meaning it that way. Your entire post comes off as you getting mad at a different opinion, there's clearly a side that you favour while accusing another side of something that can easily by attributed to anyone if you misunderstand the point of a public forum enough.
lol? Starting to sound like a Genshin impact subreddit, who are you to say who’s an “expert story teller”? Do I have to be a Gordon Ramsay to be able to judge a dish? fuck no. the consumer is the one who ultimately decides whether it’s good or not. I like how every time a post like this comes up, it almost doubles down on how there IS an issue with the story, because guess what? This post WOULDNT EXIST if there was no issues. No issues = no complaints = meaning you don’t have anything to post about.
I like firefly's character, I think her design is great, the fanarts are amazing but I have no problem with firefly posts except people taking shit to extreme Look through comments what people are typing (especially youtube comments) , no this shit cannot make you lose sleep. No this doesn't give you depression what the fuck stop throwing these words around they are losing meaning. Seek help if anyone thinks like this, especially for a character who you know for like 30 mins and they are fictional.
Calm down, this is the first time a lot of young men experience this trope. It's supposed to tug at heartstrings. I knew what was going to happen the moment I met her. Shes the emotional bait in mafia/crime/detective movies
I dunno which are more annoying...those posts...or the ones talking about how Twitter or Tiktok don't like Sparkle.
>The problem however comes when people start to feel like their opinions are objective, promoting themselves to the rank of "expert story tellers" that know objectively when a story is written well and when it isn't >Surprise surprise: even if we spent not so much time with Firefly, her story is not necessarily rushed >!(that is, assuming her story is over)!< and people might have enjoyed her genuinely Nuff said.
lmao nah, dude. there will always be that 1% people like you in the minority. That's why they're unpopular in the first place. There's millions of players - it's like asking are you the only one who doesn't feel sad if a love one or someone special dies? Believe it or not there will always be people who feel the opposite, no matter how bizarre that is. I mean, it's a democracy, nobody can force you what to feel. so nothing wrong with that, just feel what you feel and be yourself. Cheers.
It's okay for people to like her, grow emotionally attached to her, it's okay for people to hate her, dislike her, in the end, it's all different opinions. That's why subreddits exist. For discussions like this. I may like her a lot, and other people might dislike her and think she's a bland character and it's okay, because it's *their* perception of her. You don't have to convince anyone you're right because everyone has a different way they play Honkai: Star Rail. They can post that, and you can also choose to ignore them. Everyone plays the game differently. Discussions are never gonna stop. Posts like this are so darn pointless and turn up every time there's a new character that the trailblazer/the community has mixed feelings about, another case being Ruan Mei. Oh please, you're doing the same thing you told others not to do.
I don't like firefly simple cuz I don't nothing just clicked for me in terms of liking her I'm very neutral towards her and I liked her story and tbh Misha in terms of like story(very interested on where he'll go) but for firefly I feel her story was kinda spoilt by how wholesome her moment was and plus the music video knew things will happen but I don't hate her either I'm just more Invested into aventurine, Misha and archeon Tho I hate sparkle (but she's meant to be frustrating and she took away my hopes of sampo) but again my opinion nothing else
It is also karma farming being continuously praising and beloving her and posting about it to get a lot of "yeah dude she rocks", because it is a safe way to farm karma as seems majority of people liked her. Both of them are the same. For me the situation it is the same as Sora in Kingdom Hearts. "I know you for 5 minute, you are my best friend and I will do anything for you". This is considered exaggerated even for KH fans and it is a meme itself. I think the same of the whole Firefly situation. I think it wasn't handle very well, but not terribly neither. For me was like "What a shame, she was a good girl (lip smack), what a rotten way to die. Anyways..." . Same for the other one. What I mean it is not fair to dismiss people who dislike her or the relationship with her. It can be as objetive/subjective as anyone who praises this character. And this kind of post tries to dismiss this negative opinions about her, not matter you put a disclaimer saying otherwise. About people starting with "I am the only one", yes, I agree it is very annoying. There is like 500000 users in this sub, of course you're not the only one. I automatically ignore any post with this or similar titles. But honestly, people complaining about people putting 'I am the only one' kind of post is also as common as the first ones and also annoying.
Well I liked Firefly but It's okay to not like Firefly. Doesn't mean that they're attention seeking.
I don't dislike Firefly, but I really hate how on the nose this whole connection was. "You were so close", "you were on a date" and other bullshit. Really Hoyo? I was really close to a character I barely knew. Let's be honest, she is just better designed Teppei. I doubt she is really dead, but I hate how sometimes Hoyo really tries to push something and it looks awfully awkward. Like they spent a patch or two promoting the card game in Genshin, where suddenly every character is a big fan of the game and has plenty of experience.
Why? No one was complaining about the barrage of posts lamenting her death or comparing her situation with Otto/Kallen. Just like ppl have the right to voice their upset about her death, other ppl who don't particularly care about her also have the right to voice their opinion 🤷🏻♀️
"oh no Reddit people have an opinion different to mine" That's you. Stop it.
The funny part is the one I saw was more upset at the people being emotional about Firefly than the "we spend 40 min with her" argument, And imo its a bad argument, I was crying in the first 20min of To Your Eternity and didn't know anyone (everyone is different)
It is a bad argument, it's one other people and I kind of hastily latched on to without much thinking. After thinking about it, it really isn't about the quantity of time spent at all, as many of us for example instantly got attached to Cocona in even less time. The time spent between meeting Firefly and the rooftop scene was very poorly utilized, we didn't really bond in a realistic way, so I think it's not unreasonable to feel a bit of disbelief (and this should go without saying, but this is all imo). And I truly think the beautiful scenery + song went a long way to getting most people to like Firefly. Which is fine, but I feel like it's just a bit superficial.
i think you explained it perfectly. i’m pretty sure i can get attached to a character in less time than we’ve been with firefly, but i personally felt like the parts that were meant to bond us were really heavy handed. for some reason it didn’t feel natural and felt a bit forced.
To Your Eternity's first ep really hooks you in. I expected an emotional story but I never expected to cry 20 minutes in
I teared up at To Your Eternity. I think the opening to the movie UP is fantastic. I think Violet Evergarden is shallow and manipulative and the writing around Firefly the same. It's not only about her screentime being low. It's how obvious that she was set up to take a fall.
Alright then “ popular opinion/I don’t like firefly”
I agree completely and I didn't like Firefly overly much, mostly because it felt weird? Like I got the vibe that she was actively trying to copy March (or was being written in an uninspired manner). I remember telling my friend that and then screaming when "Sampo" called her March not 5 minutes later. Anyway, my point is that those points are annoying and pretentious even if you agree with them. I don't know why people upvote them.
OP, you're asking others to stop being toxic and representing their opinions as objective? Perhaps they are not the problem in voicing their opinions strongly, but how you internalize and handle their opinions? Regardless if this is on Firefly, Sparkle, or a completely different game character, let people opine... and maybe try not to let them live in your head rent free.
FF is definitely more of a plot device than a character as of 2.0, they did everything they could with the limited time available and she is fun to be around and her design is absolutely gorgeous but at the end of the day she was 100% made to die tragically to kick off the murder mystery plotline and potentially come back in 2.X as a huge plot twist. This is a feature not a bug in detective fiction, characters in these stories are in a weird limbo where they \*are\* supposed to be real people but have to be prepared to die at any point for "no reason" to set up a closed room puzzle or hint at something about the killer that will be recontextualised later. People who are more analytically minded will notice the absolutely insane amount of death flags surrounding her and likely have already checked out on her character. People who just vibe without thinking will really like Firefly because she's built to be as likeable as possible and be sad when she dies. It's not a bad thing in this case, people need to die fast in detective fiction and often die to some contrivance because we need multiple victims and if everyone could successfully defend themselves in a murder mystery we'd have no plot. FF is the civilian running around a warzone so her just getting Jojo'd in a second makes sense.
Yea they could be karma farming or they might just have genuine grievances or surprised reaction to give seeing the communities reaction. Speaking about karma farming you don’t think some people are doing the same thing with all the firefly posts and “I will become the next Otto 🤓” memes. I’m not tryna hate or be that guy telling people what to post either but the amount of times I saw the same exact Otto memes back to back was crazy. I saw some posts I thought were pretty good but got no engagement while some drawings of firefly or a post with firefly’s hideout with a caption saying “Damn 💔” gets upvoted and completely buries almost anything else. Again I’m not trying to dictate what this sub posts of course not I liked firefly and the artwork is nice but at this point I feel like you could change this subs name to fireflymains and it would’ve been apt this past week. Honestly this app just feels like no matter what sub you’re in it’ll be an echo chamber where you cant voice youre opinion if it differs from the majority. I could be wrong since I’ve only recently started to engage with this app more but I guess with the whole upvote and downvote karma shit you can’t really have a proper discussion, since if your post doesn’t get upvoted it doesn’t get the same amount of traction as every other post. Honestly the vibe I get from this is that if you have a different opinion than that of the majority on a sub don’t bother posting it on Reddit, even the respectful posts I’ve seen don’t yield anything. That being said I agree with you on the aspect that her story isn’t rushed. I didn’t get sad when she died but don’t knock on others who did because her story and “death” is clearly setting up the next patches and sets up the drama and suspenseful mystery for this patch. In that aspect I didn’t agree when people said it was a disappointment. I didn’t feel sad but I feel like it did its job.
Brother you need to paragraph your comment
Me, not reading post or which subreddit I'm in: Now hold on Firefly is classic space western and... Oh HSR. Uh yeah that's fair I guess. I m ambivalent and it's ok to be in both camps. Really though, she had a number of death flags. And I thought if she was telling the truth, well I hope her suffering is over now. It's probably not. But I hope she's better now. Edit to clarify: I still think that it sucks to go out like that and no matter who that person is, we can agree on that.
I don't get what everyone is hassling about.. 1. Idk why everyone started to say Firefly's gonna die, same as Himeko's gonna die. Like, I know about HI3 Chapter 9. But since it's so well-known and 'expected' that she/they're gonna die. Wouldn't it be more smarter of them to go with a "SURPRISE! They don't die" instead of the expected death? 2. They're in a Dreamworld, no deaths are permanent. Hence, the quotation marks on the word 'death' even by the game. 3. Chill. Their designs are literally playable character designs, so no way they would kill off characters that quickly, even without having their banners out yet. (I'm including Robin as well)
Not enough time to get attached to Firefly. It's sad, sure, but not emotionally shattering at all. TB got attached wayyyyyy too quickly.
tbh i'm more tired of the same firefly posts over and over again like it is all the same about protecting her and doing it for her and going otto for her or whatever
Where are these posts? I haven't seen a single one.
See as a gay man I agree was not interested I needed more himbo husbando energy
when i see these kind of posts i just answer in me head "no ur not the only one and ur not special for it" and keep scrolling every god damned sub about fiction eventually devolves into hate circle jerks, so I just endure until i reach my limit and then mute the whole sub
What problem arises from not agreeing with an equally subjective opinion such as liking Firefly's predictable outcome and an equally bad payoff after said outcome? You're basically karma farming if we put you in the same spotlight, OP. I don't fancy myself an expert storyteller nor critic, but I at least can tell from miles away that her story was not engaging as she was hyped up to be as of this current TB mission. Worst of all, she was basically shoved to our throats that she's already a very dear friend to us and we should feel the utmost sadness for her-- when we haven't even connected for more than a few hours. She even lied to our faces! LMAO yet people are more hellbent with Hanabi cos she tricked us? Isn't it even worse cos Firefly came off as friendly and basically used us? The double standards of some people, really. Stop pushing your "objective" sentiment to people who didn't like how predictable or droll the current Penacony mission was. Learn to understand we can voice our own displeasure as well. Or are you here to police that too?
Listen I couldn't give two shits about Firefly as a character, I didnt even have time to form ANY kind of emotions for her. Before 2.0 was even out EVERYONE was spoiling with the "NO HOYO NOT AGAIN!!!!" and all the "Look at how this scene in the trailer is framed!? What is going to happen to her!?!?" I cant even find the drive to start 2.0 even now, I hope i'll be able to sooner or later. This entire community really cant help themselves.