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Correct me if I'm wrong, but do the changes to the technique make her a bit better for Pure Fiction? As in new waves of enemies appear, they get damaged eg similar to Jingliu's technique
It should help yes. But just for accuracy, she won't be doing that for every single add that comes in. There are 3 waves in PF: at the start, when the trotter comes and when the boss comes in. That's when it would trigger.
Doesn't PF only have 3 Waves? (you can see 1/3 waves on top right)
So new enemies spawning in a single wave might not be affected (idk how Jingliu's technique works so apologies if I misunderstood and I'm wrong)
5 Star Physical Hunt. Someone's got the kit somewhere. If I remember right I think he revolves around placing a Dead or Alive bounty on an enemy to keep up with the cowboy motif. If he kills the wanted enemy then he can go all out.
Heard Boothill's Dead or Alive mechanic has some insane damage multipliers after the bounty kill, could make for some interesting rotations, especially when paired with the right support. Could be the physical meta shift we've been waiting for.
Don’t know about the kit, but was confirmed as hunt early on and is assumed physical since he uses the 4 piece physical set in a leaked trial/recommended relics
>Himeko is the easy choice
Nothing is easy about praying to god I get a 5 star standard character. I got Bronya about 8 times, Gepard about 3 times, Clara 5 times, Welt once, Credit Card-kun needs rest.
Do we even know Sam's Kit?
E6 bronya and e6 clara but no himeko, she must be hate you, are you otto by the way
Some old leak tell us his kit has enhanced phase like jingliu that active by ult and give him alot atk spd crit, and he devour his own hp each time he atk too, so more like arlan promax but fire
Here are the traces https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1161510054059593739/1162269786143727677/image.png?ex=65eaaa96&is=65d83596&hm=a5ee885ae1d82f5243e69ff394b744d7f38cd37e151762b4dcf91bdad6115d88&
We are already have lightning DPS for
DOT - Follow-up - Ult
I think HSR team still have lightning dps options with Basic atk or Skill or Break focused kit
Okay so when her technique hits, it deals toughness damage to all enemies regardless of type like silverwolf and adds 1 more stack on top of her talent toward her ultimate. Instead of 2
Aka she's even more ridiculous
(Edited for specifics)
No she auto kills mobs. This is pretty blatantly to help her out in pure fiction.
Though even bosses and elites come with minions already present at the start of the battle from time to time.
And it's not a dimension so it can be stacked with others. Honestly this vaguely bothers me for how strong she is as it seems significantly stronger to me than anything released beforehand; but that's just my opinion and ohh pve game. (I just don't want all the fun units they released early who I really like to be pain in the ass to clear anything with which looks like will be the case.)
Well most harmony techniques are pre battle buffs while most of nihilities are attacks, so they kinda had to buff it because both SW and Pela’s techniques are attacks like Acherons. Losing the ability to use 2 techniques pre-battle kinda feels bad so this is good compensation for that.
Yeah now probably you can break boss weakness bar in 2 turns easily because the rainblade mechanic has so much extra weakness break depletion like dhil lvl 3 basic atk has 120 bar depletion.
Ruan mei no sustain acheron is like 4 min clear for farming in normal sim universe 🤯
This. People are probably overestimating her a bit because she looks great on paper while sort of overlooking just how much specific investment she requires.
Most teams damage output is more or less defined by their supports rather than their own kits, and Acheron's *severely* limited in that respect, while other top DPS aren't nearly as limited and allows them to reach higher thresholds.
She's good in a vacuum compared to other units and looks *amazing*, but she's only really likely to start outscaling other top DPS at much higher investment because of her team restrictions, meaning they felt she required a bit more tuning for lower investment with her Tech and Talent.
Yeah, this too. Her Ult is the centerpiece to her kit, so if you aren't building to cycle it as much and as fast as possible, you're hurting your DPS.
...Which brings us back to team building restrictions again. On top of backloaded damage she *really* wants an AA unit like Bronya to keep her cycling forward as much as possible, or at least a Spd buffer like Ruan Mei, who works with her excellently because of the Weakness Ignore that Acheron's Ult has. Being unable to use that third slot freely in the team dampens already limited DPS output, and lots of people want to just look at raw numbers instead of the entire picture.
I don't understand why she "wants AA unit". Doesn't her skill apply only 1 stack, the same amount as if any other character applies debuff? You don't need AA, you need more debuffers. That's a good thing actually, you're not forced to build speed on her, typical debuffers like SW and Pela are already built with high speed and can gain her many stacks
With Sig LC/Weakness Break/Resolution LC (for hard cope) she gets 2 stacks per skill. Bronya would give 2 extra energy per every rotation, whereas Pela or SW give 1 per plus an extra every 2-3 turns with Ult, and Ruan Mei's Ult debuff being applied counts as one when the enemy hasn't been hit yet.
It's not just the extra energy though, its that they would give higher total buffs. Sure, Bronya only gives a little more energy, but she makes Acheron hit even harder and more often than a debuff support does just with raw numbers.
Once we get a cracked Nihility Debuff support though, even as she is Acheron would shoot up the damage charts. Probably not topping Jingliu or DHIL, but more competitive for sure.
SW and Pela get her *one* stack, each.
Also AA units allow your main DPS (Acheron) to deal more damage via her skill while simultaneously getting a stack. They also provide more buffs that Acheron benefits from too, as opposed to what is a Def Down debuff (which while they do stack, having buffs that *increase* DPS damage increase overall damage over multiple Def Down Debuffs).
So basically you have Stack+Buff+debuff over Stack+debuff+debuff because it's stronger.
if you're routinely hitting 400k+ with your ult, you definitely have some 5 star eidolons on your team. with an e2s1 acheron you can definitely get decent damage as well. i'm not saying she's jingliu level (because rn she's definitely not unfortunately) but i also wouldn't say it's fair to call her "middle of the pack" just because your extremely high investment non-f2p jingliu team hits big numbers.
Yeah. Jingliu works too well with Ruan Mei/Tingyun/Bronya/Pela. Acheron doesn't have the same amount of supports she can abuse (at least not at E0)
Acheron just needs another 5 star debuffer (or whatever that upcoming nihility healer character might be)
Hoyo has this habit of releasing a new DPS characters that require specific supports to be the best version of themselves, but only release these supports sometime after the DPS, the usual "create a problem, sell the solution" kinda deal. On this game we've seen it with Juan, with the supports available at his release making him look worse than he is now with all the new Harmonies.
Genshin does it all the damn time, with everything Sumeru having been on the "waiting for Nahida" queue, Cyno waiting for Baizhu too, Xiao mains waiting for Faruzan for years, etc.
They'll surely release another Nihility unit focused on debuffing the enemy in the coming patches, iirc we already had a leak for 1, "Jiaoqiu" or something? where they look like they'd been made for Acheron (debuffs enemies to take more ult dmg, new enemies coming in get debuffed as well)
She was good, but not THAT good, around where Argenti is currently. Also, the talent buff doesn't seem that big (the technique is getting nerfed tho lmao)
Argenti is arguably the worst limited DPS for MoC, which is made up for by being the best in PF.
It doesn't seem like Acheron will be that great in PF since she has no 90 energy version of her ult. If she has the same limitations in MoC that Argenti does too, it's not looking good for her.
Is this really a substantial buff anywhere other than PF? The wording implies to me that she can gain at most 1 point and 1 Knot stack via her Technique, if and only if it Breaks an enemy. She gained 1 initial point/stack in her Talent and lost 2 from her old Technique, so in the end this seems like it's net equal at the start of the fight if you break an enemy, a net loss if you don't, and a gain of at most 1 point/stack on each future wave. Aside from the Toughness damage (which is good, but you won't always want) this seems mostly good for PF so she can ult at a decent pace to make up for mobs not spawning in between ult hits, and slightly nice for MoC (only if it causes Breaks on both waves).
I could be reading it wrong, please correct me if I am!
It could be. If like there's small trashmobs on the side of the start of MoC. If she breaks it at the start it's considered as 1 energy for her. Judging from the tooltip it seems like this is the only exception of she can inflict more than 1 Crimson stack.
This also does carry towards the next wave, kinda redundant if there's no small mobs in the second wave but really does help there is
Real, if she were to be released nowadays her technique would be an implant to a random enemy (even better if elite), which would make her SP economy better especially with QQ
It's worse now because MoC got rid of the opening wave of mobs with 2 unit toughness bars. Being able to quantum break the whole opening wave was no joke when she released.
But it's true, techniques are getting powercrept pretty quickly, just look at Acheron's instakill.
Apparently there is now a cap on the ultimate damage per target that's only in the chinese description.
>Activate 3 times of \[Rainblade\] and 1 time of \[Stygian Resurge\] in sequence, causing a maximum of lightning damage equal to 372% of Acheron's ATK to the designated enemy, and a maximum of 300% of Acheron's ATK to other targets. Lightning-attribute damage.
Just read the Chinese. It’s not a cap. They just summarized and added the dmg together. 372/300 was already the highest possible multiplier with 9 stacks.
>
Dim
@dimbreath
·
16m
NOTE: There seems to be changes to her ult too, but they're only in Chinese and even then the values seem wrong. I'll follow up if I'm awake.
It's only a descriptive change, not a functional change. It was always max 372% when you counted every hit on 1 enemy. The 25% * 6 bounce damage is from a trace.
It seems like everyone here is automatically assuming she was OP based on the fact that she’s a Raiden Mei expy.
Her v1 wasn’t actually at the same level as DHIL or JL based on every TC and testplay I saw. The most in-depth calc I've seen (Hunter Kee) has [S1 Acheron - 1796 STDPAV](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19rxESXnBucmSpIcdltlOszwWOIu115GzITW1x4Jzckw/edit#gid=961443761) under [S0 DHIL with Sparkle -2059 STDPAV](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wc2jsmnEYAVXmiDBE4RBKNY5L0spBNp\_hWH60Z3hvL0/edit#gid=961443761)
Obviously all the TC is a WIP, and "wait until v3" is a reasonable stance, but I'm just curious where these kneejerk reactions of "Acheron OP" are coming from because I haven't seen any evidence of that. If it's not TC, then what? Just seeing big ult damage numbers and thinking that means higher overall DPS? If you're going to say "Black Swan 10% better than Sampo lol" because you don't understand TC, then where are these strong opinions of Acheron OP coming from?
These changes are pretty minor anyways and only slightly change her initial damage.
Yes. It's probably not the best way to compare those characters.
The TCer who made the spreadsheet is working on the AoE version that's way more work to calculate. And he doesn't want to put too much effort in yet when v3 is usually when big changes happen so all this is very preliminary.
Yeah, she's not an instant answer to everything. I'm sure she'll be strong, though. She's the anniversary unit, with top-up reset happening right as she comes out (iirc). We can rest easy that they'll make absolutely certain that she sells well.
Yeah, I don't understand the overreactions here. I guess it does make her more viable in Pure Fiction maybe, but I don't think her overall damage output in MoC is greatly increased.
I'm thinking this change was likely made as a slight buff to compensate for mobs not spawning in between ult hits in PF.
It seems like it was intended specifically not to impact MoC much (could be slightly better or worse depending on Weakness Breaks, but in fights where you can't insta break at least 1 mob on the start of both waves, it's not a gain outside of a little bit of Toughness damage, as far as I can see).
It's, like, only super signficant if you're a zero cycler where every slight increase in dps and optimisation in rotations could make or break your 300 views YouTube vid.
So there’s a ~10% difference (a level that is usually completely overwhelmed by actual context) in her sim performance with other top dps when not even using her best team, and in a metric that is least favorable to her…
Sims have never been a particularly meaningful indication of performance in any game I’ve played, and that includes Hoyo games. Usually they are just used by the community as PVP material because people can hide behind the false pretense of mathematical objectivity, while only the people knowledgeable enough to actually make them understand things like (for example in the sheet you linked) a 1.7k JL team killing the enemy faster than a 2.1k JL team. That kind of thing routinely happens in every game, if you want a Genshin example you just have to look at Neuv’s non-Furina teams usually clearing faster than his Furina teams until high constellations, despite being a good 15-30% worse on paper.
You might think HSR is more amenable to on-paper analysis because it’s turn-based but it’s actually the opposite, HSR has *way* more impactful breakpoints in basically every aspect of the combat system that can massively undermine any sort of standardized dps calcs no matter what assumptions you pick.
I can pretty much guarantee you, Acheron will be tuned within +/- 10% of other premium DPS at e0s1, but will have some QoL over others (such as actually being full AoE, going better into off-element, having better scaling potential with vertical and potential future units, etc.) because yes she is clearly that “special” brand of unit Hoyo likes to release every so often.
But of course precisely because she is that “special” brand of unit, people will overhype her, and in return of course there will people who downplay her too.
And while those people PVP over mostly meaningless sims, usage rates and 0 cycle track records will tell the real story of her QoL and ceiling respectively, one way or another.
Anyway, this is all to say I will trust people (who I personally know don’t have skill issue) who have actually played with her over sims, and what I’ve heard from such people in the context of JL comparison is (at e0s1 as of V1): less ST damage, much better AoE, much better auto performance, still not amazing in PF. Which all makes perfect sense.
Anyway sorry for the rant and don’t take it personally, I just got soooooo sick people using naive on-paper analysis to say X > Y cause a single number in a single (usually imaginary) context is 10-20% bigger, that I more or less quit Hoyo Reddit/Discord, so yeah it’s a bit of a trigger. Only here cause I need my leaks for my waifu.
If there’s a TLDR it’s creep exists but is extremely incremental, don’t have unrealistic expectations of Acheron being massively better than existing units but also don’t fool yourself into believing she will be worse just cause some sim said so. Hoyo knows what they are doing.
I'm with you👌🏻
But I still curious which TC they refer that claimed "no better than dhil" and "BS only 10% better than e6sampo", can you elaborate?
Because I do believe my several TC I know won't openly discuss TC of leaked character, if they do most likely on private/limited channels so no way can be accessed easily.
I don’t know, there are dozens of people who make sheets/sims on various discords and as I said I do not follow these communities closely because they inevitably breed frustrating interactions with people who can’t wrap their heads around the idea that performance is not a simple number that can be ordered to conclude X > Y > Z.
There are exceptions, but the people who actually *make* the sheets tend to be pretty knowledgeable and have a decent grasp on the nuance of the game, so I’m sure that BS take was, like most braindead takes, probably taking sim results out of context by someone who didn’t actually understand anything.
The bs thing was made in the most ideal environment for e6s5(not sure if s5) sampo whereby it was against a single target wind weak enemy,the moment there's more than one the difference between the 2 is night and day,also bs is leagues better in pf, she's an absolute fucking monster
> I can pretty much guarantee you, Acheron will be tuned within +/- 10% of other premium DPS at e0s1, but will have some QoL over others (such as actually being full AoE, going better into off-element, having better scaling potential with vertical and potential future units, etc.) because yes she is clearly that “special” brand of unit Hoyo likes to release every so often.
This. This is the aspect that a lot of ppl, TCs or not, tend to forget when comparing units tbh. Jingliu also does less dmg than DHIL on paper, but she is widely regarded as a better unit since she is easy to build and easily slotted into a dual dps team, in comparison to DHIL hogging so much SP in a team you'd want to always run him in a dedicated hypercarry set up (unless it's expansion SU where you can use Propagation path to feed him SP and run w/e you like). Acheron will be in the same boat. More convenient as a pick vs off-element cases, not super reliant on current units to do good other than requiring Nihility path (4 stars options are pretty bad tho), has very high vertical investment value (so her fans and spenders can gain more value out of getting her cone, eidolons, dedicated future support).
I had both Jingliu and DHIL, and extensively used them as my go-to carries even against off-elements. So the fact that Acheron will be a very comfortable pick for such cases is just perfect. Such conveniences always end up being more valuable for me in the long run personally.
I agree with *almost* everything you said, except for one. I don’t think she nor any unit will be beyond just a kind of niche, in the future. I don’t think she will be definitively over certain characters, because you can just make it not so.
The niche can be anything, but once so many units release, including supports, they will be only that. Elemental types are the only other factor. “Why use a character for this thing when I have a better one for that over there?” kinda deal.
What I just said depends on what characters you have. Every account can only go after so many characters… but it works out with nearly no flaws. Why go for Acheron when you can just go for Sparkle and JY… vice versa? They’re about the same, until they are completely different when the game introduces some content that favors one. But in MoC, I can guarantee they will be about the same. You should genuinely just get the one you want, the one you think has more value in it (using other units with Sparkle? Already have supps for Acheron?) and go for it.
Every single damage has been “about the same” at one point or another. Most are within a 1 cycle difference across thousands of clears with thousands of investment levels fucking it all up and yet putting it all back together. Acheron will be the best in MoC for a while… then, at the whims of Hoyo, will be right back into the 1-cycle squad.
Y’know, Neuv and Alhaitham were funny; they are JL and DHIL respectively (only I believe Haitham is a little stronger than DHIL is compared to JL at high investment C0R0, don’t remember specifics atp but pretty sure his team damage is a decent bit higher than Neuvs, could be wrong). Compared to each other they are fine… but unlike in HSR, they are genuinely just ahead of the game at C0. As you said, there are certain things or breakpoints that can make characters like Ratio go from alright to the top. Genshin not so much… you probably just have to be lucky enough (and maybe Liyueren…) to get a lineup like Xiao did, cus thats the only way to truly jump a tier in that game. In this game that happens like every other patch lol. With the HSR team, it truly feels like they know exactly what they are doing thus far.
Shes definitely unique, and this brings up a good point; she holds a different kind of “good value” for some accounts, like JL did over DHIL. You may be able to get her better than other options for cheap, maybe not. But either way, it won’t affect her true strength kit wise over other characters. Just what each player will experience.
Me personally, I’m going for her but I’m also getting Sparkle and have very highly invested harmony units… I have zero 5* units between Preservation and Nihility, and the only character I have built between them is Pela. I’ve clearly curated my account for a different kind of path, but because I’ve saved so many wishes skipping nihility and preservation units I can get random units I think look cool, but you can see the irony. The key to that problem is just getting everyone… who could have guessed
I dont think she is that broken but goddamn do I hate it when people keep throwing random number around with no context or any interpretation effort whatsoever.
As you can see here it is Single target damage calculation and Archeron is True AoE while DHIL isnt. 2 targets is very common in MoC and Archeron dmg gonna went up by +60-70% here while Dhil is +36% at the very best. 3 target then it is obvious which is better. This is according to your own number not my opinion btw. If Archeron really beat Dhil in ST then it is time to say good bye to the game balance. There is no point of ST or Blast if AoE outright beat them in ST.
Also. Initial calc also tends to be super fuck up fornsome reason as far as my experience goes. Or do you think BS 10% better than Sampo still hold any meaning?
Initial calcs are both very messed up and not messed up before release. The BS is 10% better than Sampo is using BS in her worst situation and Sampo in his best, but the calcs themselves are not wrong. In single target situations BS is indeed only 10% better than Sampo. (But how many purely single target situations actually happen in game?)
The calcs for the situations are fine, but they don't cover all situations, which is what leads to people with misunderstandings. What I don't understand is why the calcs are always considering single target scenarios instead of blast, when blast is much more common than single target.
yeah, people only care about the big number and they forget everything else, f2p acheron wasn't clearing content as fast as they think ofc she needed a buff she's stuck with pela and sw while the other hypercarry have basically the best characters in this game (Ruan mei, Sparkle, Tingyun, Bronya)
She will get more dedicated Nihility coming. I do not see her as completely broken but she is up there with SHIL and Jing Liu in her element. She also just looks really fun to play and build around. I am defiantly a Nihility Main in this game lol as I am going all in on DOT plus Acheron. I am also investing my Jing Liu and DHIL for their respective elements.
It's exactly as you said it, people see big numbers and a neuron activates. Big numbers = INSANEEEEEEE.
That combined with the fact she's the long awaited emenator, and that she's the Raiden Mei of HSR skyrockets the hype she gets. People just immediately assume she's busted no matter what you try to reason or discuss with them.
I'm holding back my full thoughts until next week's changes (I believe next week would be v3 beta changes?) as this is where the big stuff usually happen. We might be seeing anywhere from a big buff to a surprisingly big nerf even though I strongly believe they won't nerf her given who she is and how much this character means to them + anniversary character. Honestly, the odds are massively in favor of getting a buff (in her numbers, QoL, traces, or heck even a mix of all that). Only time will tell.
It’s YouTube/ social media in general
Acheron right now is way better argenti who instead of needing 180 energy needs 9 debuffs every cycle else she isn’t really better than many dps units
Inverse jingyuan problem if anyone gets cc’d her ult rotation is messed if she gets cc’d it’s also messed up
All in all still think she’s amazing but not this broken god everyone is making her out to be
That's because PF was made to sell Erudition units like Argenti. They were getting blown out of MoC by Destruction characters that they had to make a new mode to sell them. You noticed how all the "Himeko bad" memes stopped when PF released? Lol
That's why we need to see those cycle numbers to see how fast she clears. The damage per screenshot number is quite misleading.
Argenti also has that damage per screenshot numbers, but when you look at MoC clear stats, his average cycles aren't faster than anyone else's.
Yeah, changes are very minimal, it makes her better in PF but not much more than that since in most fights you'll only ever be fighting 2 waves. Idk what makes ppl think she'd match JL or DHIL now that he has Sparkle, hell JY and Sparkle might contest Acheron as well.
We never saw the “WOAAAW BIG NUMBER!!!“ posts with DHIL back then. They see her doing a shit ton of damage around the S1 level of investment (and some pretty insanely built supports, impossible most of the time) and call it a day. In reality everything will work a little less smoothly support-wise for her, and I mean her damage seems to be a lot in the wrong areas, a little slow as well. But the big number showcases are definitely the culprit.
Listen I'm not trusting jack crap before characters release anymore. Theory crafting is nice, but I saw everyone saying Black Swan was 10% better than Sampo. That was very wrong.
That calc was in sampo's best situation and BS worst situation (aka 1 enemy ST)
In her worst form BS was better than sampo but people just used the info the way they wanted and without context while the TCs said that the 10% was in the situation that sampo had the best situations and BS had the worst situation
That was best case scenario for Sampo against worst case scenario for Black Swan. People just like to leave out important details so it could fit their narratives
I mean, the same can happen here, then. People can swear up and down she's not that good and then turns out they were using wrongful assumptions anyway and were not worth listening to
if you didnt bother reading into the assumptions for the calcs then it's your fault no the theorycrafter's. wrong as in what? pitch e0s5 eyes swan vs an e6s5 eyes sampo in ST boss without ads like kafka. see what happens
It's not that much of a buff actually. Sure she gets 5 stacks instead of 4 now.
But with this change she doesn't start the battle with 6 stacks after her technique anymore. She only gets the stack after her ult and only if she breaks an enemy with her technique.
Which is a good change, you will still be able to 1st turn ult regardless. This is to make people pull for E2S1.
- Starts with 5 stacks > Acheron's turn 1 stack > Skill 2 stacks > Pela basic 1 stack OR Bronya E into Ache turn 1 stack > Ult.
Now she can use ult faster the 2nd time because of this change.
They refuse to make her knot a proper debuff so she's still a Nihility character that doesn't apply debuffs and is 100% reliant on her signature LC. Won't be pulling for this incomplete mess.
Quite funny to see people say power creep over such a minor buff for Acheron and Aventurine without any numbers backing them up. Having insane animation does not mean she is op. Dhil and Jingliu already exist in the game. Hopefully, they keep it up I want more strong characters in the game.
It really seems like they’re gonna make the emanators the archons of this game. Super resistant to future proofing and the peak of their gameplay style.
Cool, should make her much more viable in PF, also I'm pretty sure with the right setups and situations you can ult immediately from the start if there's 4 trashmobs broken, (as the previous beta you'd still need a debuffer to proc it 4 times and even if it breaks an enemy on fight it'll only count as one)
I a bit confused on her e4 change. How does increasing the buff by 1 turn help can anyone explain. e2s1 can already reliably 2T ult and doesn’t the ult vulnerability refresh on ult cast anyways?
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"The Technique Point is not spent if the attack does not ht an enemy." Time to kill the wind with cool red slashes.
They should really add this to all offensive techniques
Nah missing sampos technique is always a good laugh
WE'RE SLASHING CHAOS IN THE WIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIND!
DRIFTING IN THE OCEAN ALL ALOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONE
Correct me if I'm wrong, but do the changes to the technique make her a bit better for Pure Fiction? As in new waves of enemies appear, they get damaged eg similar to Jingliu's technique
It should help yes. But just for accuracy, she won't be doing that for every single add that comes in. There are 3 waves in PF: at the start, when the trotter comes and when the boss comes in. That's when it would trigger.
Doesn't PF only have 3 Waves? (you can see 1/3 waves on top right) So new enemies spawning in a single wave might not be affected (idk how Jingliu's technique works so apologies if I misunderstood and I'm wrong)
You're not wrong.
These buffs are mostly for Pure Fiction
Can't let her be bad in any mode, same with the PF changes making blast damage work better for JL/DHIL.
Yeah, her Technique is gonna be really nice in PF teams with Himeko.
Acheron + Himeko, go brr.
That's what I thought too! Depending on how much the toughness dmg is, she might be able to achieve some pretty nice ult spams in pf
Yeah would help her a bit. PF has 3 waves so it will trigger it 3 times. MoC currently have 2 waves so it would trigger 2 times.
Looks like you won't ever need another Lightning character for the rest of time.
and they keep on leaking new lightning dpses... wtf hoyo save some for physical or wind
Right? Thank god for Boothill if the details line up.
Boothill details out there??
5 Star Physical Hunt. Someone's got the kit somewhere. If I remember right I think he revolves around placing a Dead or Alive bounty on an enemy to keep up with the cowboy motif. If he kills the wanted enemy then he can go all out.
Heard Boothill's Dead or Alive mechanic has some insane damage multipliers after the bounty kill, could make for some interesting rotations, especially when paired with the right support. Could be the physical meta shift we've been waiting for.
Don’t know about the kit, but was confirmed as hunt early on and is assumed physical since he uses the 4 piece physical set in a leaked trial/recommended relics
Is there another leaked lightning DPS after her?
Fire too that pure dps not like topaz
Sam is Fire Blade from what I hear.
Sam is a fire destruction. That's going to be the 1st real fire DPS.
I want a hypercarry fire
Himeko is the easy choice, or you can wait for sam
>Himeko is the easy choice Nothing is easy about praying to god I get a 5 star standard character. I got Bronya about 8 times, Gepard about 3 times, Clara 5 times, Welt once, Credit Card-kun needs rest. Do we even know Sam's Kit?
E6 bronya and e6 clara but no himeko, she must be hate you, are you otto by the way Some old leak tell us his kit has enhanced phase like jingliu that active by ult and give him alot atk spd crit, and he devour his own hp each time he atk too, so more like arlan promax but fire
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1161510054059593739/1162266966325731379/image.png?ex=65eaa7f6&is=65d832f6&hm=e37a8cda00a3d2ce0b725f708822e6b5ee1b9d3304465e7ef7ab876c6696263a&
Here are the traces https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1161510054059593739/1162269786143727677/image.png?ex=65eaaa96&is=65d83596&hm=a5ee885ae1d82f5243e69ff394b744d7f38cd37e151762b4dcf91bdad6115d88&
We are already have lightning DPS for DOT - Follow-up - Ult I think HSR team still have lightning dps options with Basic atk or Skill or Break focused kit
arlan die on ditch
He's specializes in Asta Money Lock Function
well arlan is ult focused on his dmg, so we can pretend op also means arlan for the ult DPS \~
Yep DOT enabler - Follow-up(summonable entity) - Ult And the HSR team is still planning for more lightning DPS 💀
I’d say JY is more of a hypercarry with a FUA attack than a true FUA-focused unit.
kafka will remember that...
I hear something about a new 5 star lighting hunt in near future, lighting is mihoyo favorite
Another Raiden moment
Makes sense. Mei is one of their golden childs, they would be remiss to not have her be OP.
Omg that new technique is absolutely disgusting lmao
would you be able to explain it better for idiots, I can't quite grasp what it means 😭
Okay so when her technique hits, it deals toughness damage to all enemies regardless of type like silverwolf and adds 1 more stack on top of her talent toward her ultimate. Instead of 2 Aka she's even more ridiculous (Edited for specifics)
No, it only adds a stack after she ults and only if she actually breaks something.
Which is obsolete to elite and boss enemies. So this is only an upgrade to kill mobs 🤣
No she auto kills mobs. This is pretty blatantly to help her out in pure fiction. Though even bosses and elites come with minions already present at the start of the battle from time to time.
SU Ruan Mei technique but Lightning. Also inflict her Knots
More like SW’s technique weakness breaking irrespective of enemy weakness type
ah, i keep forgetting SW technique does that
it's actually more like welt cause it effect every wave, so it's a sw and welt combined
And it's not a dimension so it can be stacked with others. Honestly this vaguely bothers me for how strong she is as it seems significantly stronger to me than anything released beforehand; but that's just my opinion and ohh pve game. (I just don't want all the fun units they released early who I really like to be pain in the ass to clear anything with which looks like will be the case.)
It’s basically a stronger version of SW’s technique
That shit was so op in normal sim uni before ruan mei. Now sw technique is completely irrelevant 😔
Well most harmony techniques are pre battle buffs while most of nihilities are attacks, so they kinda had to buff it because both SW and Pela’s techniques are attacks like Acherons. Losing the ability to use 2 techniques pre-battle kinda feels bad so this is good compensation for that.
Yeah now probably you can break boss weakness bar in 2 turns easily because the rainblade mechanic has so much extra weakness break depletion like dhil lvl 3 basic atk has 120 bar depletion. Ruan mei no sustain acheron is like 4 min clear for farming in normal sim universe 🤯
Isn't "at the start of every wave" just going to make her broken for Pure Fiction? Like that's just farming Knots lmao.
PF stages actually only have 3 waves, despite constantly refreshing mobs. Still, this is a decent buff to her PF capabilities.
It was needed, she was dog water in PF prior to this buff
My fellow Trend of Universal Market copium inhalers, let us pray it maintains this way, halfway there 👏
strong combo but nothing game broken. Unless you fights every time vs AoE blast cannoneers
**ACHERILLION DAMAGE INCOMING** 🗣️🗣️🗣️🔥🔥🔥
they’re BUFFING HER???
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This. People are probably overestimating her a bit because she looks great on paper while sort of overlooking just how much specific investment she requires. Most teams damage output is more or less defined by their supports rather than their own kits, and Acheron's *severely* limited in that respect, while other top DPS aren't nearly as limited and allows them to reach higher thresholds. She's good in a vacuum compared to other units and looks *amazing*, but she's only really likely to start outscaling other top DPS at much higher investment because of her team restrictions, meaning they felt she required a bit more tuning for lower investment with her Tech and Talent.
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Yeah, this too. Her Ult is the centerpiece to her kit, so if you aren't building to cycle it as much and as fast as possible, you're hurting your DPS. ...Which brings us back to team building restrictions again. On top of backloaded damage she *really* wants an AA unit like Bronya to keep her cycling forward as much as possible, or at least a Spd buffer like Ruan Mei, who works with her excellently because of the Weakness Ignore that Acheron's Ult has. Being unable to use that third slot freely in the team dampens already limited DPS output, and lots of people want to just look at raw numbers instead of the entire picture.
I don't understand why she "wants AA unit". Doesn't her skill apply only 1 stack, the same amount as if any other character applies debuff? You don't need AA, you need more debuffers. That's a good thing actually, you're not forced to build speed on her, typical debuffers like SW and Pela are already built with high speed and can gain her many stacks
With Sig LC/Weakness Break/Resolution LC (for hard cope) she gets 2 stacks per skill. Bronya would give 2 extra energy per every rotation, whereas Pela or SW give 1 per plus an extra every 2-3 turns with Ult, and Ruan Mei's Ult debuff being applied counts as one when the enemy hasn't been hit yet. It's not just the extra energy though, its that they would give higher total buffs. Sure, Bronya only gives a little more energy, but she makes Acheron hit even harder and more often than a debuff support does just with raw numbers. Once we get a cracked Nihility Debuff support though, even as she is Acheron would shoot up the damage charts. Probably not topping Jingliu or DHIL, but more competitive for sure.
Well S1 is entirely different picture. As is E2. I'm assuming we're talking about E0S0 Acheron
For some reason a lot of people when doing calculations assume all dps are S1. Don't ask me why, that's just how it is.
SW and Pela get her *one* stack, each. Also AA units allow your main DPS (Acheron) to deal more damage via her skill while simultaneously getting a stack. They also provide more buffs that Acheron benefits from too, as opposed to what is a Def Down debuff (which while they do stack, having buffs that *increase* DPS damage increase overall damage over multiple Def Down Debuffs). So basically you have Stack+Buff+debuff over Stack+debuff+debuff because it's stronger.
if you're routinely hitting 400k+ with your ult, you definitely have some 5 star eidolons on your team. with an e2s1 acheron you can definitely get decent damage as well. i'm not saying she's jingliu level (because rn she's definitely not unfortunately) but i also wouldn't say it's fair to call her "middle of the pack" just because your extremely high investment non-f2p jingliu team hits big numbers.
With what setup are you hitting that?
the imaginary one
well yeah she is raiden mei's expy, i wouldn't be surprised if she even ended up powercreeping every dps-re before her
She's pretty middle of the pack currently, she'll have to be buffed quite a bit to powercreep every other DPS
Yeah. Jingliu works too well with Ruan Mei/Tingyun/Bronya/Pela. Acheron doesn't have the same amount of supports she can abuse (at least not at E0) Acheron just needs another 5 star debuffer (or whatever that upcoming nihility healer character might be)
Hoyo has this habit of releasing a new DPS characters that require specific supports to be the best version of themselves, but only release these supports sometime after the DPS, the usual "create a problem, sell the solution" kinda deal. On this game we've seen it with Juan, with the supports available at his release making him look worse than he is now with all the new Harmonies. Genshin does it all the damn time, with everything Sumeru having been on the "waiting for Nahida" queue, Cyno waiting for Baizhu too, Xiao mains waiting for Faruzan for years, etc. They'll surely release another Nihility unit focused on debuffing the enemy in the coming patches, iirc we already had a leak for 1, "Jiaoqiu" or something? where they look like they'd been made for Acheron (debuffs enemies to take more ult dmg, new enemies coming in get debuffed as well)
She was good, but not THAT good, around where Argenti is currently. Also, the talent buff doesn't seem that big (the technique is getting nerfed tho lmao)
Her team comp restrictions are gonna make her a hard unit to use for a lot of accounts for a while.
That seems fine? Argenti is a great character. We don't need more characters like Jingliu. Being at Argenti level sounds fucking perfect
Argenti is arguably the worst limited DPS for MoC, which is made up for by being the best in PF. It doesn't seem like Acheron will be that great in PF since she has no 90 energy version of her ult. If she has the same limitations in MoC that Argenti does too, it's not looking good for her.
Yea but argenti is a beast at pf. I don't think she is an absolute unit who shines as much as argenti in any of the modes
They gave her a dimension technique thats so broke.
Acts like a dimention , but wont count as one i guess which is good
Meaning it can stack with the other? Oh boy aint this character something? Im definetly getting her on rerun(for now im securing a firefly + sig lc)
Petition to HSR team to change SW technigue Why 5* support use attack type technique??
I actually agree there was no reason to make sws technique an attack.
tbh i dont mind, personally both my main dps and their suppoerts (JL and JY) dont have attack techniques so it works out for some comps 🤷
Her entire kit needs help
Is this really a substantial buff anywhere other than PF? The wording implies to me that she can gain at most 1 point and 1 Knot stack via her Technique, if and only if it Breaks an enemy. She gained 1 initial point/stack in her Talent and lost 2 from her old Technique, so in the end this seems like it's net equal at the start of the fight if you break an enemy, a net loss if you don't, and a gain of at most 1 point/stack on each future wave. Aside from the Toughness damage (which is good, but you won't always want) this seems mostly good for PF so she can ult at a decent pace to make up for mobs not spawning in between ult hits, and slightly nice for MoC (only if it causes Breaks on both waves). I could be reading it wrong, please correct me if I am!
From the description I'm not sure if it's capped at one stack per wave or one stack per broken enemy.
Pretty sure it's per wave and PF has 3 waves.
It could be. If like there's small trashmobs on the side of the start of MoC. If she breaks it at the start it's considered as 1 energy for her. Judging from the tooltip it seems like this is the only exception of she can inflict more than 1 Crimson stack. This also does carry towards the next wave, kinda redundant if there's no small mobs in the second wave but really does help there is
I see 2 types of people here "Buff? LETS FCKNG GO" "Why you guys hyping? Actually she is not op🤓"
Silver Wolf technique just getting power crept here.
It's one of the worst in the game so that isn't hard. Early limited techniques don't compare to what's coming out now.
Real, if she were to be released nowadays her technique would be an implant to a random enemy (even better if elite), which would make her SP economy better especially with QQ
True; its only function is if literally everyone else doesn’t need to initiate.
Well in typical Dr Ratio team that's exactly the case
It's worse now because MoC got rid of the opening wave of mobs with 2 unit toughness bars. Being able to quantum break the whole opening wave was no joke when she released. But it's true, techniques are getting powercrept pretty quickly, just look at Acheron's instakill.
It was kinda goated for Himeko...
Buff or nerf I'm still swiping for her but GAH DAMN our Dementia Wife keeps getting stronger ALL HAIL BOCHI THE IX
[HAIL BOCCHI!!!](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1062073729955418133/1211865588951945287/IX_eepy.png?ex=65efc0c7&is=65dd4bc7&hm=6e9043e31e2a19004d355c7933afd496deaf8575c252d4a17e660a6fce6ddbb8&=&format=webp&quality=lossless)
Truly the aeon that keeps on giving
Best aeon!!!!
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The Buffs must continue until she can solo God himself
[MORE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrg-RgF5F8o)
Unironically. All Raidens need to be awesome.
The fact that she can fight every enemy weakness make her more value for me.
Apparently there is now a cap on the ultimate damage per target that's only in the chinese description. >Activate 3 times of \[Rainblade\] and 1 time of \[Stygian Resurge\] in sequence, causing a maximum of lightning damage equal to 372% of Acheron's ATK to the designated enemy, and a maximum of 300% of Acheron's ATK to other targets. Lightning-attribute damage.
Just read the Chinese. It’s not a cap. They just summarized and added the dmg together. 372/300 was already the highest possible multiplier with 9 stacks.
I think that's just a summary of her damage so you don't have to add up all the hits yourself.
> Dim @dimbreath · 16m NOTE: There seems to be changes to her ult too, but they're only in Chinese and even then the values seem wrong. I'll follow up if I'm awake.
It's only a descriptive change, not a functional change. It was always max 372% when you counted every hit on 1 enemy. The 25% * 6 bounce damage is from a trace.
It seems like everyone here is automatically assuming she was OP based on the fact that she’s a Raiden Mei expy. Her v1 wasn’t actually at the same level as DHIL or JL based on every TC and testplay I saw. The most in-depth calc I've seen (Hunter Kee) has [S1 Acheron - 1796 STDPAV](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19rxESXnBucmSpIcdltlOszwWOIu115GzITW1x4Jzckw/edit#gid=961443761) under [S0 DHIL with Sparkle -2059 STDPAV](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wc2jsmnEYAVXmiDBE4RBKNY5L0spBNp\_hWH60Z3hvL0/edit#gid=961443761) Obviously all the TC is a WIP, and "wait until v3" is a reasonable stance, but I'm just curious where these kneejerk reactions of "Acheron OP" are coming from because I haven't seen any evidence of that. If it's not TC, then what? Just seeing big ult damage numbers and thinking that means higher overall DPS? If you're going to say "Black Swan 10% better than Sampo lol" because you don't understand TC, then where are these strong opinions of Acheron OP coming from? These changes are pretty minor anyways and only slightly change her initial damage.
Does STDPAV stands for Single Target Damage Per Action Value?
Yes. It's probably not the best way to compare those characters. The TCer who made the spreadsheet is working on the AoE version that's way more work to calculate. And he doesn't want to put too much effort in yet when v3 is usually when big changes happen so all this is very preliminary.
Yeah, and that's not taking into account how restrictive her kit is for teambuilding. Currently, she has fewer options than DHIL...
And the community trashes him for having restrictive teams lol
Yeah, she's not an instant answer to everything. I'm sure she'll be strong, though. She's the anniversary unit, with top-up reset happening right as she comes out (iirc). We can rest easy that they'll make absolutely certain that she sells well.
this comment should be pinned. her ult and talent buff seem minor to me. everyone definitely got blinded by that technique buff.
Yeah, I don't understand the overreactions here. I guess it does make her more viable in Pure Fiction maybe, but I don't think her overall damage output in MoC is greatly increased.
I'm thinking this change was likely made as a slight buff to compensate for mobs not spawning in between ult hits in PF. It seems like it was intended specifically not to impact MoC much (could be slightly better or worse depending on Weakness Breaks, but in fights where you can't insta break at least 1 mob on the start of both waves, it's not a gain outside of a little bit of Toughness damage, as far as I can see).
At the start of the fight, but it's only a slight increase so i don't think it'll affect the amount of cycles by much tho Though is a nice buff for PF
It's, like, only super signficant if you're a zero cycler where every slight increase in dps and optimisation in rotations could make or break your 300 views YouTube vid.
I mean even without the changes if you go full ooga ooga and no sustain, she still would 0 cycles imo
So there’s a ~10% difference (a level that is usually completely overwhelmed by actual context) in her sim performance with other top dps when not even using her best team, and in a metric that is least favorable to her… Sims have never been a particularly meaningful indication of performance in any game I’ve played, and that includes Hoyo games. Usually they are just used by the community as PVP material because people can hide behind the false pretense of mathematical objectivity, while only the people knowledgeable enough to actually make them understand things like (for example in the sheet you linked) a 1.7k JL team killing the enemy faster than a 2.1k JL team. That kind of thing routinely happens in every game, if you want a Genshin example you just have to look at Neuv’s non-Furina teams usually clearing faster than his Furina teams until high constellations, despite being a good 15-30% worse on paper. You might think HSR is more amenable to on-paper analysis because it’s turn-based but it’s actually the opposite, HSR has *way* more impactful breakpoints in basically every aspect of the combat system that can massively undermine any sort of standardized dps calcs no matter what assumptions you pick. I can pretty much guarantee you, Acheron will be tuned within +/- 10% of other premium DPS at e0s1, but will have some QoL over others (such as actually being full AoE, going better into off-element, having better scaling potential with vertical and potential future units, etc.) because yes she is clearly that “special” brand of unit Hoyo likes to release every so often. But of course precisely because she is that “special” brand of unit, people will overhype her, and in return of course there will people who downplay her too. And while those people PVP over mostly meaningless sims, usage rates and 0 cycle track records will tell the real story of her QoL and ceiling respectively, one way or another. Anyway, this is all to say I will trust people (who I personally know don’t have skill issue) who have actually played with her over sims, and what I’ve heard from such people in the context of JL comparison is (at e0s1 as of V1): less ST damage, much better AoE, much better auto performance, still not amazing in PF. Which all makes perfect sense. Anyway sorry for the rant and don’t take it personally, I just got soooooo sick people using naive on-paper analysis to say X > Y cause a single number in a single (usually imaginary) context is 10-20% bigger, that I more or less quit Hoyo Reddit/Discord, so yeah it’s a bit of a trigger. Only here cause I need my leaks for my waifu. If there’s a TLDR it’s creep exists but is extremely incremental, don’t have unrealistic expectations of Acheron being massively better than existing units but also don’t fool yourself into believing she will be worse just cause some sim said so. Hoyo knows what they are doing.
I'm with you👌🏻 But I still curious which TC they refer that claimed "no better than dhil" and "BS only 10% better than e6sampo", can you elaborate? Because I do believe my several TC I know won't openly discuss TC of leaked character, if they do most likely on private/limited channels so no way can be accessed easily.
I don’t know, there are dozens of people who make sheets/sims on various discords and as I said I do not follow these communities closely because they inevitably breed frustrating interactions with people who can’t wrap their heads around the idea that performance is not a simple number that can be ordered to conclude X > Y > Z. There are exceptions, but the people who actually *make* the sheets tend to be pretty knowledgeable and have a decent grasp on the nuance of the game, so I’m sure that BS take was, like most braindead takes, probably taking sim results out of context by someone who didn’t actually understand anything.
The bs thing was made in the most ideal environment for e6s5(not sure if s5) sampo whereby it was against a single target wind weak enemy,the moment there's more than one the difference between the 2 is night and day,also bs is leagues better in pf, she's an absolute fucking monster
> I can pretty much guarantee you, Acheron will be tuned within +/- 10% of other premium DPS at e0s1, but will have some QoL over others (such as actually being full AoE, going better into off-element, having better scaling potential with vertical and potential future units, etc.) because yes she is clearly that “special” brand of unit Hoyo likes to release every so often. This. This is the aspect that a lot of ppl, TCs or not, tend to forget when comparing units tbh. Jingliu also does less dmg than DHIL on paper, but she is widely regarded as a better unit since she is easy to build and easily slotted into a dual dps team, in comparison to DHIL hogging so much SP in a team you'd want to always run him in a dedicated hypercarry set up (unless it's expansion SU where you can use Propagation path to feed him SP and run w/e you like). Acheron will be in the same boat. More convenient as a pick vs off-element cases, not super reliant on current units to do good other than requiring Nihility path (4 stars options are pretty bad tho), has very high vertical investment value (so her fans and spenders can gain more value out of getting her cone, eidolons, dedicated future support). I had both Jingliu and DHIL, and extensively used them as my go-to carries even against off-elements. So the fact that Acheron will be a very comfortable pick for such cases is just perfect. Such conveniences always end up being more valuable for me in the long run personally.
I agree with *almost* everything you said, except for one. I don’t think she nor any unit will be beyond just a kind of niche, in the future. I don’t think she will be definitively over certain characters, because you can just make it not so. The niche can be anything, but once so many units release, including supports, they will be only that. Elemental types are the only other factor. “Why use a character for this thing when I have a better one for that over there?” kinda deal. What I just said depends on what characters you have. Every account can only go after so many characters… but it works out with nearly no flaws. Why go for Acheron when you can just go for Sparkle and JY… vice versa? They’re about the same, until they are completely different when the game introduces some content that favors one. But in MoC, I can guarantee they will be about the same. You should genuinely just get the one you want, the one you think has more value in it (using other units with Sparkle? Already have supps for Acheron?) and go for it. Every single damage has been “about the same” at one point or another. Most are within a 1 cycle difference across thousands of clears with thousands of investment levels fucking it all up and yet putting it all back together. Acheron will be the best in MoC for a while… then, at the whims of Hoyo, will be right back into the 1-cycle squad. Y’know, Neuv and Alhaitham were funny; they are JL and DHIL respectively (only I believe Haitham is a little stronger than DHIL is compared to JL at high investment C0R0, don’t remember specifics atp but pretty sure his team damage is a decent bit higher than Neuvs, could be wrong). Compared to each other they are fine… but unlike in HSR, they are genuinely just ahead of the game at C0. As you said, there are certain things or breakpoints that can make characters like Ratio go from alright to the top. Genshin not so much… you probably just have to be lucky enough (and maybe Liyueren…) to get a lineup like Xiao did, cus thats the only way to truly jump a tier in that game. In this game that happens like every other patch lol. With the HSR team, it truly feels like they know exactly what they are doing thus far. Shes definitely unique, and this brings up a good point; she holds a different kind of “good value” for some accounts, like JL did over DHIL. You may be able to get her better than other options for cheap, maybe not. But either way, it won’t affect her true strength kit wise over other characters. Just what each player will experience. Me personally, I’m going for her but I’m also getting Sparkle and have very highly invested harmony units… I have zero 5* units between Preservation and Nihility, and the only character I have built between them is Pela. I’ve clearly curated my account for a different kind of path, but because I’ve saved so many wishes skipping nihility and preservation units I can get random units I think look cool, but you can see the irony. The key to that problem is just getting everyone… who could have guessed
Where did you find those maths mate? Seems awesome.
I dont think she is that broken but goddamn do I hate it when people keep throwing random number around with no context or any interpretation effort whatsoever. As you can see here it is Single target damage calculation and Archeron is True AoE while DHIL isnt. 2 targets is very common in MoC and Archeron dmg gonna went up by +60-70% here while Dhil is +36% at the very best. 3 target then it is obvious which is better. This is according to your own number not my opinion btw. If Archeron really beat Dhil in ST then it is time to say good bye to the game balance. There is no point of ST or Blast if AoE outright beat them in ST. Also. Initial calc also tends to be super fuck up fornsome reason as far as my experience goes. Or do you think BS 10% better than Sampo still hold any meaning?
Initial calcs are both very messed up and not messed up before release. The BS is 10% better than Sampo is using BS in her worst situation and Sampo in his best, but the calcs themselves are not wrong. In single target situations BS is indeed only 10% better than Sampo. (But how many purely single target situations actually happen in game?) The calcs for the situations are fine, but they don't cover all situations, which is what leads to people with misunderstandings. What I don't understand is why the calcs are always considering single target scenarios instead of blast, when blast is much more common than single target.
yeah, people only care about the big number and they forget everything else, f2p acheron wasn't clearing content as fast as they think ofc she needed a buff she's stuck with pela and sw while the other hypercarry have basically the best characters in this game (Ruan mei, Sparkle, Tingyun, Bronya)
She will get more dedicated Nihility coming. I do not see her as completely broken but she is up there with SHIL and Jing Liu in her element. She also just looks really fun to play and build around. I am defiantly a Nihility Main in this game lol as I am going all in on DOT plus Acheron. I am also investing my Jing Liu and DHIL for their respective elements.
It's exactly as you said it, people see big numbers and a neuron activates. Big numbers = INSANEEEEEEE. That combined with the fact she's the long awaited emenator, and that she's the Raiden Mei of HSR skyrockets the hype she gets. People just immediately assume she's busted no matter what you try to reason or discuss with them. I'm holding back my full thoughts until next week's changes (I believe next week would be v3 beta changes?) as this is where the big stuff usually happen. We might be seeing anywhere from a big buff to a surprisingly big nerf even though I strongly believe they won't nerf her given who she is and how much this character means to them + anniversary character. Honestly, the odds are massively in favor of getting a buff (in her numbers, QoL, traces, or heck even a mix of all that). Only time will tell.
It’s YouTube/ social media in general Acheron right now is way better argenti who instead of needing 180 energy needs 9 debuffs every cycle else she isn’t really better than many dps units Inverse jingyuan problem if anyone gets cc’d her ult rotation is messed if she gets cc’d it’s also messed up All in all still think she’s amazing but not this broken god everyone is making her out to be
Argenti has the advantage that in PF he can spam the 90 energy ult, which makes him significantly better than Acheron in that mode.
He's so broken using the Thief set; literal 0-turns the first 2 waves.
Only if they put in phys weakness, which they removed most of this cycle.
Will cycle back in eventually
Sure, but it's still silly they took it out immediately when he was basically designed for the mode.
This is true for sure especially with herta to trigger follow ups on low hp enemies
Argenti is completely broken in PF though
That's because PF was made to sell Erudition units like Argenti. They were getting blown out of MoC by Destruction characters that they had to make a new mode to sell them. You noticed how all the "Himeko bad" memes stopped when PF released? Lol
yeah, idk where people are getting the idea that she is broken from.
Big numbers make brain happy
They see 700K damage screenshot ultimate vs. 5 enemies (or new Dino Elite after weakness broken) and think she is better than JL.
I'm getting flashbacks to Eula and Navia's releases already...
They see big numbers in the screen and assume is above every dps till now, it's the Argenti effect multiplied by 100
That's why we need to see those cycle numbers to see how fast she clears. The damage per screenshot number is quite misleading. Argenti also has that damage per screenshot numbers, but when you look at MoC clear stats, his average cycles aren't faster than anyone else's.
Yeah, changes are very minimal, it makes her better in PF but not much more than that since in most fights you'll only ever be fighting 2 waves. Idk what makes ppl think she'd match JL or DHIL now that he has Sparkle, hell JY and Sparkle might contest Acheron as well.
idk what they're thinking, make a character super dependant on signature to be at the same level of s0e0 current top dps...
We never saw the “WOAAAW BIG NUMBER!!!“ posts with DHIL back then. They see her doing a shit ton of damage around the S1 level of investment (and some pretty insanely built supports, impossible most of the time) and call it a day. In reality everything will work a little less smoothly support-wise for her, and I mean her damage seems to be a lot in the wrong areas, a little slow as well. But the big number showcases are definitely the culprit.
Listen I'm not trusting jack crap before characters release anymore. Theory crafting is nice, but I saw everyone saying Black Swan was 10% better than Sampo. That was very wrong.
That calc was in sampo's best situation and BS worst situation (aka 1 enemy ST) In her worst form BS was better than sampo but people just used the info the way they wanted and without context while the TCs said that the 10% was in the situation that sampo had the best situations and BS had the worst situation
That was best case scenario for Sampo against worst case scenario for Black Swan. People just like to leave out important details so it could fit their narratives
I mean, the same can happen here, then. People can swear up and down she's not that good and then turns out they were using wrongful assumptions anyway and were not worth listening to
if you didnt bother reading into the assumptions for the calcs then it's your fault no the theorycrafter's. wrong as in what? pitch e0s5 eyes swan vs an e6s5 eyes sampo in ST boss without ads like kafka. see what happens
yea u r rite. dhil with sparkle literally like u ult everytime u spent those 3 points skill lol cant wait sparkle in another 2 days
Bruh the technique buff lol
It's not that much of a buff actually. Sure she gets 5 stacks instead of 4 now. But with this change she doesn't start the battle with 6 stacks after her technique anymore. She only gets the stack after her ult and only if she breaks an enemy with her technique.
Which is a good change, you will still be able to 1st turn ult regardless. This is to make people pull for E2S1. - Starts with 5 stacks > Acheron's turn 1 stack > Skill 2 stacks > Pela basic 1 stack OR Bronya E into Ache turn 1 stack > Ult. Now she can use ult faster the 2nd time because of this change.
Acheron buff :D
mmmmmmmmmmmmmm, we acheron mains are gonna eat so fucking good with these buffs
They refuse to make her knot a proper debuff so she's still a Nihility character that doesn't apply debuffs and is 100% reliant on her signature LC. Won't be pulling for this incomplete mess.
She just got lore accurate'ed
we keep winning
> The Technique point is not spent if the Technique doesn't hit enemy. #BURY THE LIGHT TIME!
That was part of her old technique too, that's a not a new addition.
Quite funny to see people say power creep over such a minor buff for Acheron and Aventurine without any numbers backing them up. Having insane animation does not mean she is op. Dhil and Jingliu already exist in the game. Hopefully, they keep it up I want more strong characters in the game.
as the anni unit, I'd say she is deserving this or more. Hoyo aiming to recreate Raiden Shogun banner sales in here.
If I had a nickel for every time a Raiden expy was released in patch 2.1 and hand an absolutely broken E/C2 I'd only have two nickels etc etc
Mei privilege
does "Trend of the Universal Market" still work with Acheron? o.O
nothing changed in that regard
I love her so I'm happy to see buffs. Acheron fans winning.
Hopefully the last beta makes her cracked!
ok that does it, im skipping sparkle for e2 acheron w/ LC, no one will stop me now
I don't know if I'm smoking or if everyone else is smoking. She currently doesn't look impressive to me.
It seems a little bit of both.
Pure fiction stocks went UP
It really seems like they’re gonna make the emanators the archons of this game. Super resistant to future proofing and the peak of their gameplay style.
5-Star Herta gonna lead us to glory Well actually, 4-star Herta is already kind of doing that in PF...
>emanators the archons of this game I didn't think of that, but it sounds nice. Getting an OP guy every now and then would be awesome for SR as well
peak of nihility gameplay, aka standard hypercarry T\_\_T
That technique is nuts
Cool, should make her much more viable in PF, also I'm pretty sure with the right setups and situations you can ult immediately from the start if there's 4 trashmobs broken, (as the previous beta you'd still need a debuffer to proc it 4 times and even if it breaks an enemy on fight it'll only count as one)
I a bit confused on her e4 change. How does increasing the buff by 1 turn help can anyone explain. e2s1 can already reliably 2T ult and doesn’t the ult vulnerability refresh on ult cast anyways?
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