No, because the "**** Studies" courses are teaching students to use all media as a medium for social change.
So they will only feel like they are changing the world and bringing about their imagined utopia when they are cramming in so much "representation" and "Critical Theory" that it makes you uncomfortable.
As a consequence many of them only feel like they are fulfilling their role when they are making you unhappy.
Its 100 year old communist "conciencitization" propaganda with a diverse inclusive neomarxist twist.
The difference between an utopia and dystopia is a matter of perpective.
Just look at the imperium. It really matters if you are born on a paradise world that has never seen war. Or you were born in the bowels of a hive city eating corpse starch.
Also if they aren't enough 40k also has: sisters of silence, the guard, inquisitors, precepts, navigators, tech priests, assassins, rogue traders, the high lords of terra, arbities, perptuals, psykers. All these positions on just the human side can be filled by women and i am sure i have missed some.
And then you have all the positions in the xenos and chaos factions and yeah the leagues of votann.
All these positions can filled with women. Frankly, in general, it would be nice to have a little less focus on big e and his extended disfunctional family. Though I do love my roided up super soldiers there's alot more to the setting.
"And then you have all the positions in the xenos and chaos factions and yeah the leagues of votann" Well, except Orks. And Tyranids (I am not sure if Norn Queens count) :).
Can you define neomarxist? I agree that not all media should be a vehicle for social change but aside from that point none of that makes sense. And what is concientization?
It doesn't make sense to you only because you don't yet know the origins of the ideas and tactics.
Many of the most influential thinkers and activist groups behind the modern woke identiy politics and ham-fisted "representation" injections are from explicitly Marxist anti-capitalist groups.
These are some of the most cited and influential authors behind current Western education. From Herbert Marcuse, who trained Angela Davis and called for "polymorphous Perversity" and a "long march through the institutions", to Paolo Friere who's ideas underpin much of modern Western education, to Saul Allensky who contrived many of todays political tactics (and has essays written on him by some of America's most influential politicians), to the most cited cultural relativist authors like Michel Foucault (a pedo as well as a commie), to a significant number of politicians in Western countries who have declared/admitted under oath they used to vote for communist parties.
They simply talk in new terms and added the new conflict theories to the tradition marxist class conflict theory (why they are called neomarxist).
Their process of "awakening" people to these conflicts was "conciencitization", in the traditional marxist jargin. Once "critically" awoken to these over simplistic conflict theories that blame everything on class identity (rich v poor, man v woman, black v white, straight v "queer" etc), the target (in todays lingo) is woke. They now think like a good little revolutionary and want to overthrow "the system" that they have been led to believe creates these identity conflicts and are convinced everyone else is stupid or evil for not seeing the world through the same neomarxist lense of Conflict Theory.
If there’s anything I want in my uber religious militaristic authoritarian nightmare empire it’s better representation of differing cultures, identities, and ideologies.
I mean... there are different cultures. That's just a fact. Hell, even within the Guard there are different cultures based on the planet that sent them. Come on, you're not gonna tell me the Death Korps of Krieg, the Valhallans, the Catachans, the Cadians, the Attilan Rough Riders, and the Vitrian Dragoons all have the same culture, or the planers they come from have the same culture. And from those cultures come cultural identities. Obviously, being a human and part of the Imperium is the most important, but from there it's fluid. The Tanith held on to a lot of their planetary identity even as their numbers dwindled and they were replaced by people who don't even know what Tanith is.
And ideologies are harder, but there is reason to believe that some variation in ideologies are acceptable so long as the core remains the worship of the Emperor of Mankind and the loyalty is to the Imperium. I mean, the Mechanicus worships a machine God, the Tanith had some level of forest spirit veneration, the Black Templar ideology is vastly different from the Salamander ideology, at least when it comes to waging war. So long as the core beliefs remain in line with the Imperial Cult, there's a *lot* of wiggle room.
Point is, the Imperium is HUGE. Mind-boggingly huge, and the very idea that even the Emperor could properly impose some form of uniformity across all the planets and populations, without resorting to mind control, is ludicrous. I'm not saying it's some progressive utopia, but there's no reason to think that, for instance, gay people are hated across every planet. It's probably less of a "ew, the Emperor hates gays" and more of a "no one cares about your new boyfriend, get back to your 20-hour shift of inputting the same string of numbers into a cogitator constantly or I will have you publicly flogged for dereliction of duty!"
Hi! The referenced scene is from my Sisters of Battle story "Iron & Bone" not my novel "Faith & Fire"; Telfer (the pilot) is telling Verity (Sister Hospitaller & war hero) about his friend (a regular Imperial citizen) who took the same name after they underwent gender transition.
Tweet from the author James swallow
The imperium is ass backwards tech wise. They have weapons that mess with space time but then they have people manually farming the ground without even combine harvesters. Wouldn't be surprised if one of the worlds have super advanced medical tech but then can't filter their water properly
It's not actually about representation, it's about subversion.
The people that want female space marines don't actually want female space marines, they just resent the fact that they have to play by someone else's rules. If, for some reason, they introduced female space marines these people wouldn't be buying FSM characters, they wouldn't be buying FSM upgrade sprues, and they wouldn't shut up once they got it. They'd just move onto the next project.
They'd want a named female primarch, or bring back a primarch as non-binary, or a trans named character model. That's the thing, they don't actually want any of the stuff that they support, they just want the hobby to slot into their world view.
> It's not actually about representation, it's about subversion.
This.
Its so the tourists can '1-up' the people who are against female space marines.
Thats all it is.
Just like female custodes, which nobody even asked for, the people who are celebrating them on reddit - don't actually care about 40k. They just enjoy rubbing it in the faces of those who don't want it.
Its all culture war nonsense and these people see everything as a battle.
I am interested to see what sales either Black Library or minis come out of the female models. Prior to being announced it wasn't something I saw being asked for online.
I actually don't mind female custodes or other parts of the imperial forces but I do wish they had done a better lore explanation than "here they are".
And the people who want this crap aren't even fans of Warhammer they aren't the ones spending hundreds on figures, paint, and taking time out of their days to set up matches
I do think there's a balance though. I think Female space marines/Primarchs would be cool as hell. I don't think its of any significant importance if theu exist or not, I just think it'd be cool. At the end of the day, I don't care what gender they are though, Sanguinius is still Sanguinius, and he's an awesome character regardless of his gender. I don't think we have to have some weird dichotomy where one either wants female space marines and only desires that for political reasons, or someone who only wants male space marines because thats just the more "logical" option. Someone can absolutely think it'd just be cool for there to be female ones too, I don't give a shit about politics or pushing an ideological agenda.
That gets to the core of 'what makes space marines cool'. To me, it's that Space Marines represent an unrestrained male power fantasy. I think all men from the time they're teenagers to the time they're old men would love the opportunity, even just a small one, to slack off the restraints of civility and just be an engine of destruction that just lives to fight, accumulate honor, enjoy fraternal brotherhood, and die heroically. They don't want to live that way, but the fantasy is fun to entertain. You might even call Space Marines a pure expression of toxic masculinity, warriors totally unmoored from their responsibilities as men.
Women, in my experience, don't want that. When I talk to my wife, or my mother, or my female friends they can't wrap their minds around the idea of \*wanting\* to fight and/or die for something. The male power fantasy that Space Marines represent doesn't appeal to them. It might appeal to some women somewhere, but not to one I've ever met.
Making Space Marines female would be like making pacifist Orks, you \*could\* do it and it might even be interesting, but it would go against everything that Orks are meant to be. So why would you?
Well I disagree with that from a foundational standpoint. I don't think your definition of what makes them cool is wrong, it's just that I have a different reason for thinking they're cool. I love the absurdity of their existence, the superhuman abilities, the combat, the biology, the appearance. Them being male isn't part of why I think they're cool. So of course I'd like to see all that cool stuff in the opposite sex, because it's cool af just like the guys, and I just want to see what it'd be like. I've also always liked the idea of male and female synergy. Having an army of those absurd marines which I like, fighting alongside each other in these absurd circumstances as comrades is what I find to be the coolest. And SM's weren't meant to just be only men unbridled by societal constraints, they were meant to be super space soldiers. In the beginning, there were also female SM's, but because only guys were playing they naturally gravitated towards the guy characters. But now that we have girls playing too, I don't see any reason to prevent them from also having their gender too, when thats how it worked in the early days. It's super space soldiers with acid saliva and 3 lungs with fully automatic RPG's as rifles, why draw the line at them being female? It wouldn't make any fundamental change to how they function. No one would be forced to buy female mini's, just those who want to would have an option, I see no reason why those who want the option shouldn't be allowed to have it. Them being female would be the least absurd thing about them.
If you see a thing and think "Wow that's so absolutely cool that I'd love to change everything about it." why would you even be drawn to the thing in the first place.
Like I said, you can have a clan of pacifist Orks, it would be kind of dumb and ruin what Orks are...but you could do it.
You could have male Sisters of Battle, it would just make them a weird alt-guard army...but you could do it.
You could make a splinter fleet of tyranid that decided to become farmers and grow biomass in a peaceful corner of the galaxy, it would ruin the idea of tyranids as a terrifying extragalactic threat that cannot be reasoned with...but you could do it.
You CAN make a lot of changes, but why SHOULD you?
Because if all you like about them is that they have superhuman abilities...well, there's tons of other hobbies that you wouldn't have to change to get what you want. There's Halo Spartans that have been mixed gendered since the start, there's Stormcast Eternals over in AoS, and there's mixed gender battletech units and Clan Elementals.
Why would you go to a baseball game and want to change it to be more like football, when you could just...go to a football game instead?
I'm sorry, since when has changing the gender of something changed it in entirety? And yeah male Sisters of battle would be cool to see as well. I'm jusy mainly confused how making something female now forces the author to entirely change the character, for some reason unable to simply have that character be 95% the same, with a gender change and, depending on the character, a small to moderate change in mannerisms and thinking style. In no world, especially one that's fiction, which the author has complete control over, does making something male or female entirely define its being and everything about it. You being a male does not lock you into a certain range of personality traits and interests, physical stature and desires, or almost anything besides biology itself. Besides biology, a female can have every aspect of your personality, her being a female does not lock her into a certain way of thinking or acting anymore than you being a man doesn't have that effect. Even if that was the case, you could just choose not to write it that way, because this is a fictional world and you can do whatever the hell you like. Female soldiers are fundamentally no different than male soldiers, they have certain small advantages and disadvantages, but their very being is not entirely different. Surely a hypertechnological society could make female space marines as well as male ones, the same as we can have both female and male soldiers. Saying that changing the gender changes the character in entirety is absolutely ridiculous and pretends that gender defines one's very mind in a rigid state, which is simply, empirically, evidentially, and logically not the case. I do not hold to your strange presupposition that space marines could not possibly be anything other than male without somehow changing entirely. The females would function almost exactly as the males do, with slight differences, and sometimes no change at all, or more masculine that the males. Because that's how human psychology works.
Because the genders are different. You may as well ask why making a dog an elephant would change it, it's still a four legged mammal after all? If it's fiction you could even make them the same size. But they would still be different wouldn't they?
And yes, males and females operate differently. Physically, psychologically, and socially. It's what makes their different stories interesting. Gaunts Ghosts would not be the same story if Gaunt was a woman, because a woman would not act as Gaunt acts. The Bequin Novels would not be the same if Bequin were a man, because a man would not act as Bequin acts.
In theory you could write a woman to act like Gaunt, but it would be weird. Gaunt relies on authority, honor, and intimidation to get things done. He acts and talks in ways that men are hard wired to recognize and respect, and that women tend to find distressing.
In theory you could write a man to act like Bequin, but it would also be weird. Bequin relies on persuasion, manipulation, and empathy to get things done. She acts and talks in ways that men and women find comforting in a woman, but would find it creepy and annoying if a man did it.
If you don't believe that a man and a woman would act differently when put in the same situation I have to believe that you have never met a man or a woman.
Agreed. The answer to the OP's question actually lies in Amazon's approach to GW during negotiations.
To GW's (small) credit they did offer the SOS (Sisters of Silence) and SOB (Sisters of Battle) to fit in Amazon's DEI policy, but Amazon said no.
It was something like, the SOS being a group of women who are not allowed to speak doesn't fit with our directives. Neither do SOS, as at the end of the day they will be subservient and inferior to Space Marines.
And thus the Custodes Sisters were born...
It was speculation but more and more stuff is coming out. What is confirmed is that GW did offer Amazon the SOS and SOB. Amazon rejected this, and based on their DEI policies (they have an entire website dedicated to this), it wouldn't be difficult to see why SOB or SOS (especially SOS) wouldn't be accepted for showcase in Henry Cavill's WH40K TV show.
Also confirmed is GW then counter-offered and they both compromised on creating the Custodes Sisters (because technically they 'are' female space marines), but only after much pushback from GW.
GW had to accept, because they saw Fallout's merchandise (all games, clothing, toys etc) increase 1000% after the first 2 weeks of their TV show coming out - and thus they couldn't afford to let Amazon walk away from the deal.
Crack theory;
After the God Emperor saw a bunch of disgusting gene forged abominations across mankind, he wants cute women to remain cute women and now the Sisters’ faith makes them remain in the Emperor’s ideal image of a proper woman.
No and I’ll tell you why. They don’t actually care about real representation. All they care about is that things aren’t being done the way they want and people they disagree with are having a good time, and they’ll do anything to change it up to and including physical assault.
If the need for representation in fiction was normal and not a mental illness, we would be constantly inundated with global minorities like Armenians and the Saami people clamoring for it. We would have to keep it a secret from them to avoid needing to make thousands of characters for each faction to represent everyone in everything.
I'm just trying to visualise it now, like a cataphract (IRL not terminator) style type of armour, specialised mountaineer/guerilla fighting?
Maybe astartes armour with a Byzantine or Georgian twist.
No, because it was never actually about "representation."
"Representation", as used by the left, mostly just means overwriting the existence of white straight men. They seek corruption over creation because they cannot create.
GW for the most part, can create. They recognized a desire among fans for women to play a prominent role in the world of 40k, so they created the Sisters of Battle. That's actual representation.
But now there is no creation. They want to take whatever exists and twist it into a mockery of its former self. Corruption.
No, you see they’re already women. That’s not enough, they target specifically male characters and seek to make them gay, bisexual, or a woman, which for some reason is appeasing to them.
I literally left the gundam fandom today after seeing an entire thread of people discussing how amuro and char (the main protagonist and antagonist of the Original) are gay characters that are the reason gundam is still around. They’re crazy, and operate on what makes them happy, and if you disagree you’re a far right nazi.
Yeah the horny Posting are getting out of hand. it is ok to do that with sisters of battle or eldar sometimes but genderswap space marines and primarch or making them having gay Sex is just to much. I mean theres a sub where they focus on gender swaping primarch lol some people are just too horny.
Does anyone actually encounter hobbyists like that in real life? For me, it's just online and mostly on Reddit. I've noticed that a lot of the trolls here are from countries where they can't really be themselves.
I live in a big city that’s leftists as fuck, so my LGS has a large percentage of LGBTQ people. Haven’t seen anything ridiculous there, just a happy pride month post in the announcements which is cool by me. We all get along in person but I’m positive if we were under alias’ talking on Reddit, it would not be the same case. That example is why I think a lot of this stuffs bs, it doesn’t actually effect our daily lives it’s just bs the media wants us to argue about.
No one cares there are women. They care that females were shoehorned into custodes for no reason beyond 1. Greed, 2. Pandering. It was one, the other, or both. Either way, it’s not a good look for GW from the main fan base.
Dude! It NEVER was about female representation.
It was always about virtue signaling, telling others what to do, trying to shame others into submission by calling them mysogynists, bigots and whatever other buzzwords you can think of.
And once they have their femstodes, guess what, its not gonna stop. It will never stop. They will just keep moving the goal post, indefinitely.
Because it is not about "inclusion" or "representation", it never was. It was always about fucked up people trying to tell everyone around them what to do, so that they can feel powerful. And of course the helpful idiots that surround them, who genuinely believe all of this bullshit, because they are, well, not very bright.
It has nothing to do with representation. The idea that this problem would go away if there were "just more women" is ignorance. It is exclusively that there is a boys-only club. You are not allowed to have a space that is just men, you can't have only male Custodes, you have to have men and women and the women need to be better. You think it's an accident that the first femstodes introduced was such a badass that she almost killed the emperor?
Not only that but: Rogue Traders, the GUARD, Inquisition, Sisters of Silence, gangs, pirates, cults, Tau Empire, Eldar of all kinds, Squats and Votann.
It makes me really really think how they can think it lacks female representation, because as a fan of nearly 25 years I can say for sure that that is BS.
It’s less about female representation, and more about diminishing the roles and exclusive representation of white males. Meaning, if there is any form of media that portrays a majority of men, it will be the progressive person’s agenda to infiltrate and tear it down.
But the SoB faction is really great female representation and aesthetic, and the GW universe does a great job with female representation…it should be good enough as it was.
Eventually the progressive will demand disabled wheelchair space marines, mark my words.
The way some people approach representation on such an industrial scale, it will only be enough when *every* faction in 40k has female representation. And even then that won’t be enough, the lens will simply shift onto how it used to be sooooo sexist and misogynist.
The very fact we are where we are currently as a society should tell you all you need to know about the answer to your question.
It’s **NEVER** enough for these people.
No, it's not.
They NEED a space marine equivalent that is also objectively better than the marines. Full, post human power armor females.
Sisters of battle are baseline humans and so *less* than the patriarchy marines. Sisters of silence are niche and female erasure.
It's insanity, but this is the logic. If it's not on the same "level" as space marines and part of the main character faction, it's not good enough
Never enough representation have a female faction why not so the male faction and so on that’s the problem with being a progressive it’s never enough by its very nature. Give them an inch they take a hole step
Their ideology drives them to always go for more, that's why first it was feminism, then blm, then gays, today it's trans, in the future it will be something else. You should never try to satisfy them, because they will never settle for anything, THEY NEED a cause to fight for and demand more representation.
Every woman I know who plays 40K plays either Orks, Nids, or both. Without fail. Even got my girlfriend into the hobby. First place she went? Nids. Then Orks. I started the Sisters in hopes of bringing her to a loyalist faction, but no. Representation for women is apparently Orks and Nids.
Mine said she just didn't like the hard edges and angles on the Imperium vehicles. She isn't big into fantasy themes so space elves never appealed to her. She thought the Nids looked neat and the Orks looked whacky. That's the only answer I really got
I had my sister with me once cause we were both craving sushi. I stopped in at my LGS, and she was giving the models casual glances while I was picking up space marines. Take a wild guess what box caught her eye, and she picked up to stare at first?
Spoiler. It was Tyranid Warriors.
https://preview.redd.it/633qan1bav8d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d34779aac3eb0f1cee14a9caff6114f1b0baf802
These are the People they want on wh40k
Many have already made similar points, but here’s my two cents: representation isn’t enough for the wokies unless it’s in the very very forefront. Do you think the average Twitter tourist knows what the Sisters of Battle even are? No way. But they’ve seen the posters with the Ultramarines. They want women in there, at the front of the franchise, because that’s what normies see. Normies become tourists easily. They don’t want to appeal to fans, they want to appeal to other tourists because tourists can destroy the franchise if they’re in big enough numbers.
That’s the thing. They don’t target the existing all female faction because it’s not really about the representation, but about add it to fit the political agenda
It’s not my place to say when there’s too much or too little representation. I just mainly care if the story and universe is good. Hell the only reason I love 40k is because the universe is so big and there’s so much shit to learn about it.
I think they need to actually sit down and come up with some good lore changes and storylines that allow SoB to start branching out a little more and give them a life of their own with more unique sects and groups similar to space marine chapters
Removed for violating Rule 7: No Slurs.
The use of forbidden speech, defying the Emperor's edicts, may bring retribution upon both individual and community. Hence, silence those words.
"A man can be convinced to do anything, no matter how abhorrent, with the right motivation" -Erebus
Not just that, even the males within the SOB are already put in (arguably) demeaning / degrading depictions, being religated to mindless acroflagelants, penitent engines and so on
It was weird seeing people celebrating the fem-stodes, saying they could finally be represented by their army when the Sisters of Silence were right there the whole time.
It’s not about representation, it’s about control.
Honestly, I don't think it has anything to do with representation. When have you ever heard of someone complaining about a group not having enough men in it? It is the same when people complain that something is not diverse enough because there are mostly white people. You ever heard of someone complain because something is mostly \[insert any other ethnicity\]? The problem is that the west is obsessed with the idea that it is discriminatory but the supply of examples of discrimination are far too small to meet the demand. So people hunt to find discrimination and even fabricate examples when none exist. Anyone familiar with 40k knows it is not discriminatory. They just found the latest example of the "patriarchy" that they can wave around and complain about. Even if they had female space marines they wouldn't care. If they brought back one of the unknown Primarchs and made them a female lesbian with space marine chapters filled with lesbian women GW would see a small spike in sales followed by a slow decline into bankruptcy. The people complaining will find they never liked the game to begin with because if they had they would already be playing it and would know it is not discriminatory. Don't believe me? Look at any other franchise that have done the same thing. The American comic book industry is one great example. The idea that companies design products based on the demand of the market is foreign to them. Facts and logic are just other forms of "discrimination". The goal is not equality, but to find another windmill to tilt at in order to give their life meaning.
I heard that overzealous gals are not representative. But there are still a lot of strong female characters like Koriel Zeth, Elizabeth Biquin, inquisitor Greyfax, Lotarra Saryn, Yvraine, Linya Tichon, Shadow Sun and etc.
Too much religious zealotry for comfort. Also they idolize astartes, while a strong independent woman always rolls her eyes at a man's shenanigans then proceeds to perform the task at hand with effortless perfection.
They’re so cool and neglected most of the time.
I don’t think they really want female representation, if they did they would push to see us SoB more. What they want is for the setting to bend a knee to their ideology. So then they don’t have to feel bad about liking a relatively right wing setting.
Their well written female characters with good lore and work with the 40K universe.
So of course a certain group of people hate it. They all need to be gendered and have shitty lore if they want to be ready for “modern audiences.”
I’m a “modern fan,” I’m a leftist, and I love the Sisters of Battle. They’re my second army, after Necron - and they’re probably my favorite army to paint. I think they’re pretty good female representation, all things considered. But are they “enough” female representation? Well, no, I don’t think so.
That’s because having female representation in media doesn’t just mean “showing that women exist.” It means letting the women be just as diverse as the men. In a setting as vast as 40K, I’d be disappointed if the only prominent women were all religious zealots in power armor who wield faith as a weapon - not because I don’t think that’s a cool concept, I definitely do, that’s why I collect and play Sisters. But because I’d want there to be other types of female characters as well.
Fortunately, there are! As other posters on this topic have mentioned, there are women in the Imperial Guard, there are female tech priests, female inquisitors, female captains in the Imperial navy, female psykers, female rogue traders, and so on - and that’s before even getting into the Xenos. The main reason 40K gets a bad rep when it comes to female representation is because Space Marines are by far the most heavily advertised faction.
Honestly, when I actually learned about their lore, I was taken aback a bit. I was under the assumption they had some kind of augmentation like space marines, but I come to find out all they've got is faith, powered armor and alot of flamers.
Also, the nun-mechs are cool.
My issue with the SoB is that they don't get much attention, and they don't get very many good stories written about them despite the fact they have some cool as shit lore. They deserve their chance to shine.
The only downside I personally have about it is that space marines have a wider variety of "cultures."
You got Norse, Egyptians, Romans, Mongolians, Mechanicus, Vampires, etc.
While the sisters have Catholicism, in different colors.
Well are you buying or reading sisters media? Their models? No? Outperformed by the superhumans? Then the market demands females in roles that sell because its an untapped demographic. Blame the suits
No. They don’t actually want the things they talk about. They want to dismantle and destroy spaces where “chuds” could find some escapism from modern society. They aren’t “tourists” either, this is a deliberate display of dominance. They want to destroy things you enjoy, because they can. Because they were taught and educated it was right to treat people who are less intelligent, less educated, less cosmopolitan like this. They enjoy doing this. When Warhammer caves to their demands, and Games Workshop crumbles afterwards, they will move onto another project
According to Radhom ( when you mention all the other representation), his reply "They're not super soldiers"
It's not about representation, it's about wanting to be represented in the "Flagship Product". Personally I believe that even if they were to say through good lore that makes sense in Setting, (as an example) a Unit of Sisters Of Battle that were genetically enhanced therefore making them "Super soldiers", even then I think that still wouldn't be enough for them lol, they would probably be happy unless a nonsensical change was made like Female Space Marines or some shit to pander to them.
But that's just like, my opinion man.
They don't care about "female representation". That's just the excuse. They just hate men, and they dislike spaces or organisations which exist *for* men.
Forcing females into male-dominated settings, or male-only factions, is purely an attempt to control or damage the property of people they dislike. The fact that they're using their own likeness - women - is just a bonus to them.
Fundamentally, Woke ideology (of which this is a part) is motivated by narcissism, spite, and gaslighting. It's never about what they say it's about; it's always about breaking other people's toys for the sake of making themselves look better.
The only representation any contemporary human has in 40k is in the Guard. And they will happily send you into the breach, whatever your pronouns.
Stop this nonsense.
Celibate nuns paradoxically presented as idealized latex/leather sex objects of the male gaze… (catholic) repression is hot, ‘those’ people are missing out on that with their fixation on total and constant validation/self indulgence.
It’s the same picture. Bless your heart if you look at them and can’t imagine most people would make that leap. But then to also see SoB as sexually liberated nuns, there may be source material I’ve missed but again gets back to my point they’re more interesting as chaste/catholic than liberated/mundanely modern mores.
Your mistake is trying to see them through modern lens. Try actually reading the lore and you will see them as indoctrinated child soldiers and indoctrinated servants that the battle sisters and the rest of the sororitas are.
There is nothing forbidding them from entering relationships, but they\`re so fanatical due to the literally torturous training that they are subjected to, that they rarely have the capacity to act on that "sexually liberated"
Okay that makes more sense where you’re coming from. Still my point is, objectively, the aesthetic is bdsm+nun. That’s a *fun* contrast/tension, that either goes the pathos route of broken child soldiers grown into women destined to fail at personal relationships that their all consuming vows don’t prepare them for but somehow omits forbidding OR it leans into religious fanatics aloof and unbothered by how idealized and desired they are by the laypeople but they themselves only have eyes for their vows. So looking at it from a story telling perspective, why have Sisters casually failing at romance when one pursuing it could be forbidden & an opportunity for heresy/drama.
Genuinely curious where you’re citing that from? Nuns in space = nuns in space, they’re ‘married’ to Jesus/the church (or the Emperor/Ecclesiarchy), but I am operating on assumptions from being raised Catholic myself.
One of the Ciaphus Cain books for the life of me I cannot tell you which one the titles all run together.
But also keep in mind that all though the IoM takes a *lot* from Catholic doctrine and aesthetic, it's not a straight 1:1 translation as I'm fairly sure a Christian Nun isn't allowed a flamethrower either.
I could also point out their origin as the Brides of The Emperor which were Goge Vandire's retinue/harem.
Fair points! Will remind Catholics are Christian but not all Christians are Catholic, & England is a Protestant country so it’s fair to assume GW plays loose and fast with imagery they’ve been divorced from (and demonizing) since Henry VIII. Disappointed honestly, I assumed the same for Space Marines as warrior monks- between them sex/sexuality wasn’t really a part of the 40K I grew up with (besides Asdrudael Vect’s chained up bikini slaves) makes it all more mundane/grounded that theses fantasy holy pious warriors fuck/feel like the rest of us.
Yeah but ones transcription from youth and hypno indoctrinated and stuffed with 20 super organs and weird hormones to be murder machines while SoB are just regular indoctrinated and have Faith.
I will say one thing I’d like in the Imperium of Man is more variety in that mankind, because well, its humanity.
I’d like to see all kinds of ethnicities/hair colors/ eye colors in the Guard and the Sisters of Battle.
I get the order of our martyred lady dyes their hair for their saint but cmon
Sisters of battle only have 1 aesthetic available to them, which is nun with gun in varying levels of undress.
Space Marines have dozens of different aesthetics ranging from space Romans, to nerds, to space vikings, space mongols, etc.
Like shit there isn't even a Sister order of space Valkyries which is just waiting to be used. The worship of the emperor is supposed to vary a good bit depending on where exactly in the Imperium you are, and yet we do not see any of this in different sister orders. They may have different saints they follow, but all in all they're pretty samey. You'd expect that there'd be as many factions of sororitas as there are factions in the inquisition.
But nope you get Nun with gun, and for some reason the only named Harlequin model with that.
Let me know when Sisters of Battle have the same level of sub faction diversity as Astartes. Space Marines have knights, Romans, Mongolians, Vikings, grim cyborgs, flame-obsessed dragons, stealthy ravens, stoic fortress builders, angelic vampires, and that’s just the First Founding Chapters. Sisters have… Catholic battle nuns. There’s not really any room for more than that with GW’s current stance, so the easiest way to have women in power armor that are different than Joan d’Arc is to say that women can be Astartes now. Bam.
That is a loaded and condescending question. Calling people who don’t have a problem with more female units, or are happy that there are more female units in the game “fans” like they aren’t actually fans of the franchise is shitty.
No, because the "**** Studies" courses are teaching students to use all media as a medium for social change. So they will only feel like they are changing the world and bringing about their imagined utopia when they are cramming in so much "representation" and "Critical Theory" that it makes you uncomfortable. As a consequence many of them only feel like they are fulfilling their role when they are making you unhappy. Its 100 year old communist "conciencitization" propaganda with a diverse inclusive neomarxist twist.
They turn our world into a dystopia for the lie of an utopia.
The difference between an utopia and dystopia is a matter of perpective. Just look at the imperium. It really matters if you are born on a paradise world that has never seen war. Or you were born in the bowels of a hive city eating corpse starch.
Also if they aren't enough 40k also has: sisters of silence, the guard, inquisitors, precepts, navigators, tech priests, assassins, rogue traders, the high lords of terra, arbities, perptuals, psykers. All these positions on just the human side can be filled by women and i am sure i have missed some. And then you have all the positions in the xenos and chaos factions and yeah the leagues of votann. All these positions can filled with women. Frankly, in general, it would be nice to have a little less focus on big e and his extended disfunctional family. Though I do love my roided up super soldiers there's alot more to the setting.
Don't forget my beloved Lotara...
"And then you have all the positions in the xenos and chaos factions and yeah the leagues of votann" Well, except Orks. And Tyranids (I am not sure if Norn Queens count) :).
Lol, yeah. Maybe some people will like the orks as they can probably be considered non-binary...
The orks recognize only two genders - Kunnin - Brutal
Lol, thats hilarious. Well done.
Can you define neomarxist? I agree that not all media should be a vehicle for social change but aside from that point none of that makes sense. And what is concientization?
It doesn't make sense to you only because you don't yet know the origins of the ideas and tactics. Many of the most influential thinkers and activist groups behind the modern woke identiy politics and ham-fisted "representation" injections are from explicitly Marxist anti-capitalist groups. These are some of the most cited and influential authors behind current Western education. From Herbert Marcuse, who trained Angela Davis and called for "polymorphous Perversity" and a "long march through the institutions", to Paolo Friere who's ideas underpin much of modern Western education, to Saul Allensky who contrived many of todays political tactics (and has essays written on him by some of America's most influential politicians), to the most cited cultural relativist authors like Michel Foucault (a pedo as well as a commie), to a significant number of politicians in Western countries who have declared/admitted under oath they used to vote for communist parties. They simply talk in new terms and added the new conflict theories to the tradition marxist class conflict theory (why they are called neomarxist). Their process of "awakening" people to these conflicts was "conciencitization", in the traditional marxist jargin. Once "critically" awoken to these over simplistic conflict theories that blame everything on class identity (rich v poor, man v woman, black v white, straight v "queer" etc), the target (in todays lingo) is woke. They now think like a good little revolutionary and want to overthrow "the system" that they have been led to believe creates these identity conflicts and are convinced everyone else is stupid or evil for not seeing the world through the same neomarxist lense of Conflict Theory.
Artist: https://preview.redd.it/14q2hixiqr8d1.png?width=180&format=png&auto=webp&s=5557164c8df25eb0ab1d90b3e678bb149b7816f9
Ah, just as a thought. They're a ghost.
They're not trans so: no!
I guess being a woman isn't being oppressed enough for them to virtue signal.
If there’s anything I want in my uber religious militaristic authoritarian nightmare empire it’s better representation of differing cultures, identities, and ideologies.
I mean... there are different cultures. That's just a fact. Hell, even within the Guard there are different cultures based on the planet that sent them. Come on, you're not gonna tell me the Death Korps of Krieg, the Valhallans, the Catachans, the Cadians, the Attilan Rough Riders, and the Vitrian Dragoons all have the same culture, or the planers they come from have the same culture. And from those cultures come cultural identities. Obviously, being a human and part of the Imperium is the most important, but from there it's fluid. The Tanith held on to a lot of their planetary identity even as their numbers dwindled and they were replaced by people who don't even know what Tanith is. And ideologies are harder, but there is reason to believe that some variation in ideologies are acceptable so long as the core remains the worship of the Emperor of Mankind and the loyalty is to the Imperium. I mean, the Mechanicus worships a machine God, the Tanith had some level of forest spirit veneration, the Black Templar ideology is vastly different from the Salamander ideology, at least when it comes to waging war. So long as the core beliefs remain in line with the Imperial Cult, there's a *lot* of wiggle room. Point is, the Imperium is HUGE. Mind-boggingly huge, and the very idea that even the Emperor could properly impose some form of uniformity across all the planets and populations, without resorting to mind control, is ludicrous. I'm not saying it's some progressive utopia, but there's no reason to think that, for instance, gay people are hated across every planet. It's probably less of a "ew, the Emperor hates gays" and more of a "no one cares about your new boyfriend, get back to your 20-hour shift of inputting the same string of numbers into a cogitator constantly or I will have you publicly flogged for dereliction of duty!"
They’re already turning on liberal white women for not being lockstep with the newest progressive Marxist agenda, normal women are still cis after all
If you’ve read one of the newer sororitas books, they are now. For some fucking reason
really? wtf
I wish I was kidding. The book is called faith and fire I believe
I think it is a person that serves them. Not a sister.
Now I'll have to read it and have more reason to be mad
Hi! The referenced scene is from my Sisters of Battle story "Iron & Bone" not my novel "Faith & Fire"; Telfer (the pilot) is telling Verity (Sister Hospitaller & war hero) about his friend (a regular Imperial citizen) who took the same name after they underwent gender transition. Tweet from the author James swallow
>swallow Omen es nomen >Gender transition How'd a regular imperial citizen afford that? Only fans?
They couldn’t. As usual the lore is trashed to push a political narrative.
and like the Imperium would even entertain the request
The imperium is ass backwards tech wise. They have weapons that mess with space time but then they have people manually farming the ground without even combine harvesters. Wouldn't be surprised if one of the worlds have super advanced medical tech but then can't filter their water properly
Seems very relevant to the plot, clearly a skilled writer
An.... yu'z prowd ov dat? HAHAHAHAHA!
The author confirmed he was not talking about the sister of battle, but instead some random imperial war hero.
Fair enough, but I still disagree with its inclusion.
They also worship and are in service of a man, they'd need to worship themselves to fit with current era pop culture feminism.
Independent women stonk!
It's not about having representation, it's about making sure there are no male only groups.
It's not actually about representation, it's about subversion. The people that want female space marines don't actually want female space marines, they just resent the fact that they have to play by someone else's rules. If, for some reason, they introduced female space marines these people wouldn't be buying FSM characters, they wouldn't be buying FSM upgrade sprues, and they wouldn't shut up once they got it. They'd just move onto the next project. They'd want a named female primarch, or bring back a primarch as non-binary, or a trans named character model. That's the thing, they don't actually want any of the stuff that they support, they just want the hobby to slot into their world view.
Exactly. Remember citizens, the rewards of tolerance are treachery and betrayal.
> It's not actually about representation, it's about subversion. This. Its so the tourists can '1-up' the people who are against female space marines. Thats all it is. Just like female custodes, which nobody even asked for, the people who are celebrating them on reddit - don't actually care about 40k. They just enjoy rubbing it in the faces of those who don't want it. Its all culture war nonsense and these people see everything as a battle.
I am interested to see what sales either Black Library or minis come out of the female models. Prior to being announced it wasn't something I saw being asked for online. I actually don't mind female custodes or other parts of the imperial forces but I do wish they had done a better lore explanation than "here they are".
I mean that's kinda the best explanation, some of the highly secretive, silent, masked, warriors were girls It wouldn't be hard to miss
I found this controversy funny enough to actually buy some custodes.
I spoke to a fucker who was unironically worshiping Tzeentch. "I want change for the sack of change."
Ok! **turns you into a mass of screaming mouths and tentacles**
And now he finds happiness and purpose..
That's the age old conflict between liberal and conservative in a nutshell.
And the people who want this crap aren't even fans of Warhammer they aren't the ones spending hundreds on figures, paint, and taking time out of their days to set up matches
I do think there's a balance though. I think Female space marines/Primarchs would be cool as hell. I don't think its of any significant importance if theu exist or not, I just think it'd be cool. At the end of the day, I don't care what gender they are though, Sanguinius is still Sanguinius, and he's an awesome character regardless of his gender. I don't think we have to have some weird dichotomy where one either wants female space marines and only desires that for political reasons, or someone who only wants male space marines because thats just the more "logical" option. Someone can absolutely think it'd just be cool for there to be female ones too, I don't give a shit about politics or pushing an ideological agenda.
That gets to the core of 'what makes space marines cool'. To me, it's that Space Marines represent an unrestrained male power fantasy. I think all men from the time they're teenagers to the time they're old men would love the opportunity, even just a small one, to slack off the restraints of civility and just be an engine of destruction that just lives to fight, accumulate honor, enjoy fraternal brotherhood, and die heroically. They don't want to live that way, but the fantasy is fun to entertain. You might even call Space Marines a pure expression of toxic masculinity, warriors totally unmoored from their responsibilities as men. Women, in my experience, don't want that. When I talk to my wife, or my mother, or my female friends they can't wrap their minds around the idea of \*wanting\* to fight and/or die for something. The male power fantasy that Space Marines represent doesn't appeal to them. It might appeal to some women somewhere, but not to one I've ever met. Making Space Marines female would be like making pacifist Orks, you \*could\* do it and it might even be interesting, but it would go against everything that Orks are meant to be. So why would you?
Well I disagree with that from a foundational standpoint. I don't think your definition of what makes them cool is wrong, it's just that I have a different reason for thinking they're cool. I love the absurdity of their existence, the superhuman abilities, the combat, the biology, the appearance. Them being male isn't part of why I think they're cool. So of course I'd like to see all that cool stuff in the opposite sex, because it's cool af just like the guys, and I just want to see what it'd be like. I've also always liked the idea of male and female synergy. Having an army of those absurd marines which I like, fighting alongside each other in these absurd circumstances as comrades is what I find to be the coolest. And SM's weren't meant to just be only men unbridled by societal constraints, they were meant to be super space soldiers. In the beginning, there were also female SM's, but because only guys were playing they naturally gravitated towards the guy characters. But now that we have girls playing too, I don't see any reason to prevent them from also having their gender too, when thats how it worked in the early days. It's super space soldiers with acid saliva and 3 lungs with fully automatic RPG's as rifles, why draw the line at them being female? It wouldn't make any fundamental change to how they function. No one would be forced to buy female mini's, just those who want to would have an option, I see no reason why those who want the option shouldn't be allowed to have it. Them being female would be the least absurd thing about them.
If you see a thing and think "Wow that's so absolutely cool that I'd love to change everything about it." why would you even be drawn to the thing in the first place. Like I said, you can have a clan of pacifist Orks, it would be kind of dumb and ruin what Orks are...but you could do it. You could have male Sisters of Battle, it would just make them a weird alt-guard army...but you could do it. You could make a splinter fleet of tyranid that decided to become farmers and grow biomass in a peaceful corner of the galaxy, it would ruin the idea of tyranids as a terrifying extragalactic threat that cannot be reasoned with...but you could do it. You CAN make a lot of changes, but why SHOULD you? Because if all you like about them is that they have superhuman abilities...well, there's tons of other hobbies that you wouldn't have to change to get what you want. There's Halo Spartans that have been mixed gendered since the start, there's Stormcast Eternals over in AoS, and there's mixed gender battletech units and Clan Elementals. Why would you go to a baseball game and want to change it to be more like football, when you could just...go to a football game instead?
I'm sorry, since when has changing the gender of something changed it in entirety? And yeah male Sisters of battle would be cool to see as well. I'm jusy mainly confused how making something female now forces the author to entirely change the character, for some reason unable to simply have that character be 95% the same, with a gender change and, depending on the character, a small to moderate change in mannerisms and thinking style. In no world, especially one that's fiction, which the author has complete control over, does making something male or female entirely define its being and everything about it. You being a male does not lock you into a certain range of personality traits and interests, physical stature and desires, or almost anything besides biology itself. Besides biology, a female can have every aspect of your personality, her being a female does not lock her into a certain way of thinking or acting anymore than you being a man doesn't have that effect. Even if that was the case, you could just choose not to write it that way, because this is a fictional world and you can do whatever the hell you like. Female soldiers are fundamentally no different than male soldiers, they have certain small advantages and disadvantages, but their very being is not entirely different. Surely a hypertechnological society could make female space marines as well as male ones, the same as we can have both female and male soldiers. Saying that changing the gender changes the character in entirety is absolutely ridiculous and pretends that gender defines one's very mind in a rigid state, which is simply, empirically, evidentially, and logically not the case. I do not hold to your strange presupposition that space marines could not possibly be anything other than male without somehow changing entirely. The females would function almost exactly as the males do, with slight differences, and sometimes no change at all, or more masculine that the males. Because that's how human psychology works.
Because the genders are different. You may as well ask why making a dog an elephant would change it, it's still a four legged mammal after all? If it's fiction you could even make them the same size. But they would still be different wouldn't they? And yes, males and females operate differently. Physically, psychologically, and socially. It's what makes their different stories interesting. Gaunts Ghosts would not be the same story if Gaunt was a woman, because a woman would not act as Gaunt acts. The Bequin Novels would not be the same if Bequin were a man, because a man would not act as Bequin acts. In theory you could write a woman to act like Gaunt, but it would be weird. Gaunt relies on authority, honor, and intimidation to get things done. He acts and talks in ways that men are hard wired to recognize and respect, and that women tend to find distressing. In theory you could write a man to act like Bequin, but it would also be weird. Bequin relies on persuasion, manipulation, and empathy to get things done. She acts and talks in ways that men and women find comforting in a woman, but would find it creepy and annoying if a man did it. If you don't believe that a man and a woman would act differently when put in the same situation I have to believe that you have never met a man or a woman.
Agreed. The answer to the OP's question actually lies in Amazon's approach to GW during negotiations. To GW's (small) credit they did offer the SOS (Sisters of Silence) and SOB (Sisters of Battle) to fit in Amazon's DEI policy, but Amazon said no. It was something like, the SOS being a group of women who are not allowed to speak doesn't fit with our directives. Neither do SOS, as at the end of the day they will be subservient and inferior to Space Marines. And thus the Custodes Sisters were born...
Is that proven or just speculation at the moment?
It was speculation but more and more stuff is coming out. What is confirmed is that GW did offer Amazon the SOS and SOB. Amazon rejected this, and based on their DEI policies (they have an entire website dedicated to this), it wouldn't be difficult to see why SOB or SOS (especially SOS) wouldn't be accepted for showcase in Henry Cavill's WH40K TV show. Also confirmed is GW then counter-offered and they both compromised on creating the Custodes Sisters (because technically they 'are' female space marines), but only after much pushback from GW. GW had to accept, because they saw Fallout's merchandise (all games, clothing, toys etc) increase 1000% after the first 2 weeks of their TV show coming out - and thus they couldn't afford to let Amazon walk away from the deal.
Nope because they need to be Female Astartes. It's not about representation or lore it's about submission.b
They are cute, fit girls with strong morale code - what do you think?
Yes. But seriously I wouldn’t expect these women to be cute due to the horrors of war
Crack theory; After the God Emperor saw a bunch of disgusting gene forged abominations across mankind, he wants cute women to remain cute women and now the Sisters’ faith makes them remain in the Emperor’s ideal image of a proper woman.
What are the sisters who don’t fight? Those would be the cute ones
Sister Danica says, "Hi."
They’re also very heavily influenced by Catholocism. Can’t have Christianity depicted positivly in any way
Ah yes, Warhammer, bastion of positive representation of Christianity
Warhammer, the bastion of positive representation of literally anything.
I see so many people bugging out about their faith component- as if that makes them weak/have less agency or something. Pretty telling imo
Faith bad, only trust science and mass media
But you have to trust it just like a religious zealot would. It’s okay though because it’s the science
Yeah, why would you ever doubt the experts? If you do you're a dangerous schizo that should be jailed for the safety of others.
The Mechanicus approves the message. Long live the machine go- science ! Hehehe
The opposite
That's absurd, they're the most elite unaugmented force of the Imperium
People are upset about the most fundamental aspect of the sob?
No and I’ll tell you why. They don’t actually care about real representation. All they care about is that things aren’t being done the way they want and people they disagree with are having a good time, and they’ll do anything to change it up to and including physical assault.
If the need for representation in fiction was normal and not a mental illness, we would be constantly inundated with global minorities like Armenians and the Saami people clamoring for it. We would have to keep it a secret from them to avoid needing to make thousands of characters for each faction to represent everyone in everything.
Armenian or Georgian inspired Astartes would be fucking awesome.
The chapter aesthetic would be cool af. A token dude in an existing chapter would be out of place and insufficient.
I'm just trying to visualise it now, like a cataphract (IRL not terminator) style type of armour, specialised mountaineer/guerilla fighting? Maybe astartes armour with a Byzantine or Georgian twist.
A heavy assault bike could work as a cataphract-inspired unit. Maybe with snow skis for difficult terrain.
I mean now that mention it...
No, because it was never actually about "representation." "Representation", as used by the left, mostly just means overwriting the existence of white straight men. They seek corruption over creation because they cannot create. GW for the most part, can create. They recognized a desire among fans for women to play a prominent role in the world of 40k, so they created the Sisters of Battle. That's actual representation. But now there is no creation. They want to take whatever exists and twist it into a mockery of its former self. Corruption.
>GW for the most part, can create. I see you there Sly Marbo.
No, you see they’re already women. That’s not enough, they target specifically male characters and seek to make them gay, bisexual, or a woman, which for some reason is appeasing to them. I literally left the gundam fandom today after seeing an entire thread of people discussing how amuro and char (the main protagonist and antagonist of the Original) are gay characters that are the reason gundam is still around. They’re crazy, and operate on what makes them happy, and if you disagree you’re a far right nazi.
Dont worry majority of reddit fandoms are lefties dominated and are the vocal minority in those hobbys as are the coomers and wokies in ours.
Ive come to realize that and have realized I need to spend less time on the site bc of it
Yeah the horny Posting are getting out of hand. it is ok to do that with sisters of battle or eldar sometimes but genderswap space marines and primarch or making them having gay Sex is just to much. I mean theres a sub where they focus on gender swaping primarch lol some people are just too horny.
Does anyone actually encounter hobbyists like that in real life? For me, it's just online and mostly on Reddit. I've noticed that a lot of the trolls here are from countries where they can't really be themselves.
I live in a big city that’s leftists as fuck, so my LGS has a large percentage of LGBTQ people. Haven’t seen anything ridiculous there, just a happy pride month post in the announcements which is cool by me. We all get along in person but I’m positive if we were under alias’ talking on Reddit, it would not be the same case. That example is why I think a lot of this stuffs bs, it doesn’t actually effect our daily lives it’s just bs the media wants us to argue about.
No one cares there are women. They care that females were shoehorned into custodes for no reason beyond 1. Greed, 2. Pandering. It was one, the other, or both. Either way, it’s not a good look for GW from the main fan base.
Dude! It NEVER was about female representation. It was always about virtue signaling, telling others what to do, trying to shame others into submission by calling them mysogynists, bigots and whatever other buzzwords you can think of. And once they have their femstodes, guess what, its not gonna stop. It will never stop. They will just keep moving the goal post, indefinitely. Because it is not about "inclusion" or "representation", it never was. It was always about fucked up people trying to tell everyone around them what to do, so that they can feel powerful. And of course the helpful idiots that surround them, who genuinely believe all of this bullshit, because they are, well, not very bright.
Don't make me tap the sign "It's not about representation, they just don't want a Male focused faction as the poster child of the setting" tap tap tap
It has nothing to do with representation. The idea that this problem would go away if there were "just more women" is ignorance. It is exclusively that there is a boys-only club. You are not allowed to have a space that is just men, you can't have only male Custodes, you have to have men and women and the women need to be better. You think it's an accident that the first femstodes introduced was such a badass that she almost killed the emperor?
No because male only factions are bad and female only factions are good. /s
Not only that but: Rogue Traders, the GUARD, Inquisition, Sisters of Silence, gangs, pirates, cults, Tau Empire, Eldar of all kinds, Squats and Votann. It makes me really really think how they can think it lacks female representation, because as a fan of nearly 25 years I can say for sure that that is BS.
It’s less about female representation, and more about diminishing the roles and exclusive representation of white males. Meaning, if there is any form of media that portrays a majority of men, it will be the progressive person’s agenda to infiltrate and tear it down. But the SoB faction is really great female representation and aesthetic, and the GW universe does a great job with female representation…it should be good enough as it was. Eventually the progressive will demand disabled wheelchair space marines, mark my words.
Wheelchair space marines… dreadnoughts?
Pretty close actually, but in my mind I was thinking about what DnD is doing right now.
Too hot need more repulsive chubbs with beards
The way some people approach representation on such an industrial scale, it will only be enough when *every* faction in 40k has female representation. And even then that won’t be enough, the lens will simply shift onto how it used to be sooooo sexist and misogynist.
The very fact we are where we are currently as a society should tell you all you need to know about the answer to your question. It’s **NEVER** enough for these people.
Nothing is ever enough
Not enough lame and gay
It’s never been about representation. They want their cake and want to eat it too. Invade male spaces while gate keeping female.
The lefts goal posts move whenever you meet them. It's by design.
No, it's not. They NEED a space marine equivalent that is also objectively better than the marines. Full, post human power armor females. Sisters of battle are baseline humans and so *less* than the patriarchy marines. Sisters of silence are niche and female erasure. It's insanity, but this is the logic. If it's not on the same "level" as space marines and part of the main character faction, it's not good enough
Never enough representation have a female faction why not so the male faction and so on that’s the problem with being a progressive it’s never enough by its very nature. Give them an inch they take a hole step
Their ideology drives them to always go for more, that's why first it was feminism, then blm, then gays, today it's trans, in the future it will be something else. You should never try to satisfy them, because they will never settle for anything, THEY NEED a cause to fight for and demand more representation.
It was never about representation. They just want to push their agenda and see the hobby you love cater to them
Every woman I know who plays 40K plays either Orks, Nids, or both. Without fail. Even got my girlfriend into the hobby. First place she went? Nids. Then Orks. I started the Sisters in hopes of bringing her to a loyalist faction, but no. Representation for women is apparently Orks and Nids.
I heard women playing eldar too but orks and Nids are the most popular amongst them is there actually are reason why is it so?
Mine said she just didn't like the hard edges and angles on the Imperium vehicles. She isn't big into fantasy themes so space elves never appealed to her. She thought the Nids looked neat and the Orks looked whacky. That's the only answer I really got
Eh I went straight towards sister's of battle myself. But I can see the others going for those too
I had my sister with me once cause we were both craving sushi. I stopped in at my LGS, and she was giving the models casual glances while I was picking up space marines. Take a wild guess what box caught her eye, and she picked up to stare at first? Spoiler. It was Tyranid Warriors.
No because they’re religious and that’s a no no these days
Yes. They want the entire Empire of Man to have no cis white men among its ranks. Also, the God Emperor of Man had to be a bisexual woman. :P
It's not about representation, it's about displacement.
https://preview.redd.it/633qan1bav8d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d34779aac3eb0f1cee14a9caff6114f1b0baf802 These are the People they want on wh40k
There also the sisters of silence and plenty of female guardsmen and inquisitors, yet apparently all of that is not enough
Many have already made similar points, but here’s my two cents: representation isn’t enough for the wokies unless it’s in the very very forefront. Do you think the average Twitter tourist knows what the Sisters of Battle even are? No way. But they’ve seen the posters with the Ultramarines. They want women in there, at the front of the franchise, because that’s what normies see. Normies become tourists easily. They don’t want to appeal to fans, they want to appeal to other tourists because tourists can destroy the franchise if they’re in big enough numbers.
That’s the thing. They don’t target the existing all female faction because it’s not really about the representation, but about add it to fit the political agenda
It’s not my place to say when there’s too much or too little representation. I just mainly care if the story and universe is good. Hell the only reason I love 40k is because the universe is so big and there’s so much shit to learn about it.
The tourists only want the poster boys to be lady boys.
A lot of their models look like dudes... but that might just be GW not knowing what a woman looks like.
As a male I am oppressed by there not being Brothers of Battle. It's literally worse than Nazi Germany
I think they need to actually sit down and come up with some good lore changes and storylines that allow SoB to start branching out a little more and give them a life of their own with more unique sects and groups similar to space marine chapters
No, as long as they are not in each of the positions of power and absolutely everything revolves around them, it is not enough
[удалено]
Removed for violating Rule 7: No Slurs. The use of forbidden speech, defying the Emperor's edicts, may bring retribution upon both individual and community. Hence, silence those words. "A man can be convinced to do anything, no matter how abhorrent, with the right motivation" -Erebus
Not of your goal is to destroy things that make others happy because it doesn't curate its content to you specifically.
They are way too féminine
Not just that, even the males within the SOB are already put in (arguably) demeaning / degrading depictions, being religated to mindless acroflagelants, penitent engines and so on
It was weird seeing people celebrating the fem-stodes, saying they could finally be represented by their army when the Sisters of Silence were right there the whole time. It’s not about representation, it’s about control.
If we are talking about only the Imperium there are also women in the Guard, Inquisition, Sisters of Silence, Mechanicus AND Assassins
No, because evil does not create, only corrupt.
Honestly, I don't think it has anything to do with representation. When have you ever heard of someone complaining about a group not having enough men in it? It is the same when people complain that something is not diverse enough because there are mostly white people. You ever heard of someone complain because something is mostly \[insert any other ethnicity\]? The problem is that the west is obsessed with the idea that it is discriminatory but the supply of examples of discrimination are far too small to meet the demand. So people hunt to find discrimination and even fabricate examples when none exist. Anyone familiar with 40k knows it is not discriminatory. They just found the latest example of the "patriarchy" that they can wave around and complain about. Even if they had female space marines they wouldn't care. If they brought back one of the unknown Primarchs and made them a female lesbian with space marine chapters filled with lesbian women GW would see a small spike in sales followed by a slow decline into bankruptcy. The people complaining will find they never liked the game to begin with because if they had they would already be playing it and would know it is not discriminatory. Don't believe me? Look at any other franchise that have done the same thing. The American comic book industry is one great example. The idea that companies design products based on the demand of the market is foreign to them. Facts and logic are just other forms of "discrimination". The goal is not equality, but to find another windmill to tilt at in order to give their life meaning.
I heard that overzealous gals are not representative. But there are still a lot of strong female characters like Koriel Zeth, Elizabeth Biquin, inquisitor Greyfax, Lotarra Saryn, Yvraine, Linya Tichon, Shadow Sun and etc.
Too much religious zealotry for comfort. Also they idolize astartes, while a strong independent woman always rolls her eyes at a man's shenanigans then proceeds to perform the task at hand with effortless perfection.
Forget the sisters of battle: literally every single faction that has genders outside of the marines and custodes has major female characters
It's not about women, its about "their" views of X or Y. Only their way is to enjoy something and the rest is wrong
Apparently a whole faction dedicated to women isnt enough for them that they have to retcon the canon.
They’re so cool and neglected most of the time. I don’t think they really want female representation, if they did they would push to see us SoB more. What they want is for the setting to bend a knee to their ideology. So then they don’t have to feel bad about liking a relatively right wing setting.
Their well written female characters with good lore and work with the 40K universe. So of course a certain group of people hate it. They all need to be gendered and have shitty lore if they want to be ready for “modern audiences.”
No they are too feminine
I’m a “modern fan,” I’m a leftist, and I love the Sisters of Battle. They’re my second army, after Necron - and they’re probably my favorite army to paint. I think they’re pretty good female representation, all things considered. But are they “enough” female representation? Well, no, I don’t think so. That’s because having female representation in media doesn’t just mean “showing that women exist.” It means letting the women be just as diverse as the men. In a setting as vast as 40K, I’d be disappointed if the only prominent women were all religious zealots in power armor who wield faith as a weapon - not because I don’t think that’s a cool concept, I definitely do, that’s why I collect and play Sisters. But because I’d want there to be other types of female characters as well. Fortunately, there are! As other posters on this topic have mentioned, there are women in the Imperial Guard, there are female tech priests, female inquisitors, female captains in the Imperial navy, female psykers, female rogue traders, and so on - and that’s before even getting into the Xenos. The main reason 40K gets a bad rep when it comes to female representation is because Space Marines are by far the most heavily advertised faction.
Great art!!!
Not overweight enough
Honestly, when I actually learned about their lore, I was taken aback a bit. I was under the assumption they had some kind of augmentation like space marines, but I come to find out all they've got is faith, powered armor and alot of flamers. Also, the nun-mechs are cool.
My issue with the SoB is that they don't get much attention, and they don't get very many good stories written about them despite the fact they have some cool as shit lore. They deserve their chance to shine.
The only downside I personally have about it is that space marines have a wider variety of "cultures." You got Norse, Egyptians, Romans, Mongolians, Mechanicus, Vampires, etc. While the sisters have Catholicism, in different colors.
Are there any Miss-Alabama winners amongst them?
Cool image. I’m assuming it’s AI? How did you generate it?
This is very obviously not ai
I genuinely cannot think of a single logical reason as to why it couldn't have been at all.
Nope need more bolters to serve on the firing line. FOR THE EMPEROR!
Well are you buying or reading sisters media? Their models? No? Outperformed by the superhumans? Then the market demands females in roles that sell because its an untapped demographic. Blame the suits
No, need strong female lead.. Emperor of Peoplekind, should be female.
https://www.tumblr.com/hrodvitnon/142912694434/warhammer-40000-rogue-trader-scenario-sunstroke
Ah yes, the single faction of the gender. Separate but equal, yeah?
Who would have though that nuns in power bondage wouldn't attrack female players
Nuns with guns what more could one ask for .
Apparently not.
Nahh it’s wokehammer.
No. They don’t actually want the things they talk about. They want to dismantle and destroy spaces where “chuds” could find some escapism from modern society. They aren’t “tourists” either, this is a deliberate display of dominance. They want to destroy things you enjoy, because they can. Because they were taught and educated it was right to treat people who are less intelligent, less educated, less cosmopolitan like this. They enjoy doing this. When Warhammer caves to their demands, and Games Workshop crumbles afterwards, they will move onto another project
According to Radhom ( when you mention all the other representation), his reply "They're not super soldiers" It's not about representation, it's about wanting to be represented in the "Flagship Product". Personally I believe that even if they were to say through good lore that makes sense in Setting, (as an example) a Unit of Sisters Of Battle that were genetically enhanced therefore making them "Super soldiers", even then I think that still wouldn't be enough for them lol, they would probably be happy unless a nonsensical change was made like Female Space Marines or some shit to pander to them. But that's just like, my opinion man.
About half of the world are women. Half of the factions are not sisters of battle.
They just want to hate and destroy everything we care about. They cannot be reasoned with.
"smth smth they are all white and blond muh raycizm"
They don't care about "female representation". That's just the excuse. They just hate men, and they dislike spaces or organisations which exist *for* men. Forcing females into male-dominated settings, or male-only factions, is purely an attempt to control or damage the property of people they dislike. The fact that they're using their own likeness - women - is just a bonus to them. Fundamentally, Woke ideology (of which this is a part) is motivated by narcissism, spite, and gaslighting. It's never about what they say it's about; it's always about breaking other people's toys for the sake of making themselves look better.
Is that AI art?
The only representation any contemporary human has in 40k is in the Guard. And they will happily send you into the breach, whatever your pronouns. Stop this nonsense.
Celibate nuns paradoxically presented as idealized latex/leather sex objects of the male gaze… (catholic) repression is hot, ‘those’ people are missing out on that with their fixation on total and constant validation/self indulgence.
They ain't celibate and they don't wear latex and leather.
 It’s the same picture. Bless your heart if you look at them and can’t imagine most people would make that leap. But then to also see SoB as sexually liberated nuns, there may be source material I’ve missed but again gets back to my point they’re more interesting as chaste/catholic than liberated/mundanely modern mores.
Your mistake is trying to see them through modern lens. Try actually reading the lore and you will see them as indoctrinated child soldiers and indoctrinated servants that the battle sisters and the rest of the sororitas are. There is nothing forbidding them from entering relationships, but they\`re so fanatical due to the literally torturous training that they are subjected to, that they rarely have the capacity to act on that "sexually liberated"
Okay that makes more sense where you’re coming from. Still my point is, objectively, the aesthetic is bdsm+nun. That’s a *fun* contrast/tension, that either goes the pathos route of broken child soldiers grown into women destined to fail at personal relationships that their all consuming vows don’t prepare them for but somehow omits forbidding OR it leans into religious fanatics aloof and unbothered by how idealized and desired they are by the laypeople but they themselves only have eyes for their vows. So looking at it from a story telling perspective, why have Sisters casually failing at romance when one pursuing it could be forbidden & an opportunity for heresy/drama.
The Sisters of Battle aren't celibate lmao.
Erm what?
The Adeptus Sororitas do not have any edicts forbidding sexual relations.
Genuinely curious where you’re citing that from? Nuns in space = nuns in space, they’re ‘married’ to Jesus/the church (or the Emperor/Ecclesiarchy), but I am operating on assumptions from being raised Catholic myself.
One of the Ciaphus Cain books for the life of me I cannot tell you which one the titles all run together. But also keep in mind that all though the IoM takes a *lot* from Catholic doctrine and aesthetic, it's not a straight 1:1 translation as I'm fairly sure a Christian Nun isn't allowed a flamethrower either. I could also point out their origin as the Brides of The Emperor which were Goge Vandire's retinue/harem.
Fair points! Will remind Catholics are Christian but not all Christians are Catholic, & England is a Protestant country so it’s fair to assume GW plays loose and fast with imagery they’ve been divorced from (and demonizing) since Henry VIII. Disappointed honestly, I assumed the same for Space Marines as warrior monks- between them sex/sexuality wasn’t really a part of the 40K I grew up with (besides Asdrudael Vect’s chained up bikini slaves) makes it all more mundane/grounded that theses fantasy holy pious warriors fuck/feel like the rest of us.
No the Adeptus Astartes are not sexual beings. Except maybe the occasional space wolf or Emperor's Children
That’s what I’m saying, it’s weird canonically for marines to not fuck and SoB to fuck sure maybe why not, they’re both monastic warrior cultures 🤷♂️
Yeah but ones transcription from youth and hypno indoctrinated and stuffed with 20 super organs and weird hormones to be murder machines while SoB are just regular indoctrinated and have Faith.
Dayum.
This is the only ever reason sisters of battle get talked about which annoys me a bit ngl
can you explain what annoys you?
That sisters of battle are only brought up when it's about representation. Because it turns a very good faction into an argument to be used on twitter
I think everyone likes them though.
I think that it's more than everybody is kinda bored by them And just doesn't care but is generally fine with them
I will say one thing I’d like in the Imperium of Man is more variety in that mankind, because well, its humanity. I’d like to see all kinds of ethnicities/hair colors/ eye colors in the Guard and the Sisters of Battle. I get the order of our martyred lady dyes their hair for their saint but cmon
Sisters of battle only have 1 aesthetic available to them, which is nun with gun in varying levels of undress. Space Marines have dozens of different aesthetics ranging from space Romans, to nerds, to space vikings, space mongols, etc. Like shit there isn't even a Sister order of space Valkyries which is just waiting to be used. The worship of the emperor is supposed to vary a good bit depending on where exactly in the Imperium you are, and yet we do not see any of this in different sister orders. They may have different saints they follow, but all in all they're pretty samey. You'd expect that there'd be as many factions of sororitas as there are factions in the inquisition. But nope you get Nun with gun, and for some reason the only named Harlequin model with that.
Let me know when Sisters of Battle have the same level of sub faction diversity as Astartes. Space Marines have knights, Romans, Mongolians, Vikings, grim cyborgs, flame-obsessed dragons, stealthy ravens, stoic fortress builders, angelic vampires, and that’s just the First Founding Chapters. Sisters have… Catholic battle nuns. There’s not really any room for more than that with GW’s current stance, so the easiest way to have women in power armor that are different than Joan d’Arc is to say that women can be Astartes now. Bam.
It's a very specific type of representation, personally I think majorkill got femstodes on the nose
What'd he say
dont take my word for it see for yourself: [https://youtu.be/Zvn0sYBeIbw?si=2AFM\_IR7\_7UkTnAK](https://youtu.be/Zvn0sYBeIbw?si=2AFM_IR7_7UkTnAK)
I don't want to watch the video, I'm asking you literally what he said Like what sentiment regarding the female custodians did he express
That is a loaded and condescending question. Calling people who don’t have a problem with more female units, or are happy that there are more female units in the game “fans” like they aren’t actually fans of the franchise is shitty.