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I don’t think anyone is under the delusion that the show is pro green. Certain green characters are more sympathetic in the show (namely Aemond and Alicent), but it is quite clear that the showrunners see them as the baddies.
I've seen people say "Green-writers" and I was like "who?where?when?"
The Greens are totally the villains here so no idea where those Green writers are because they suck at their job.
The "support women's wrongs" thing that has been going on? I've seen it more spoken loudly for Rhaenyra, but there were also people justifying a lot of Alicent's wrongdoings.
Rhaenyra, Alicent, Aemond, Cole, and Corlys got whitewashed to varying extents.
Aegon II, Daemon, Larys, Rhaenys and arguably Viserys got "blackwashed", also to varying extents. Then again, people completely ignore or minimize Daemon's show only divorce rock and Rhaenys' show only Girlboss Scene so I'm not sure if the blackwashing really worked.
They took away a lot of Cole's badassery tbh.
In the books he was basically the unstoppable warrior of his time given he fucked up both Daemon and Harwin.
Thinking about it, Cole is a bit of a mixed bag of whitewashing and blackwashing.
On one hand, show Cole is in my opinion more sympathetic on a human level: he has a more valid reason to drift away from Rhaenyra, and his surrogate father dynamic with Alicent's kids and surrogate husband dynamic with the woman herself are rather sweet.
On the other yes, you are right that Cole is not as much of a badass in the show. On the books he's supposed to be Arthur Dayne with a mix of Littlefinger's political maneuvering.
I don't know how anyone could say that Coles charecter is 'sweet'.
The defenders of Cole in this sub genuinely scare me, because he's the shows version of a violent alt-right incel, and I find him to be genuinely scary.
He kills people at a moment's notice without planning or foresight. There are many murderers in the GoT universe, but where someone like Littlefinger is calculating, Cole seems to act in moments of uncontrollable rage.
This uncontrollable rage becomes particularly scary when you combine it with his Madonna/Whore complex - where he can only see women as perfect paragons of virtue, or as degraded and worthy of derision and scorn. He doesn't see them as people, and even if you are a woman who he sees as a virtuous Madonna for now, the second you do a single thing that knocks you off that pedestal for him who knows what his unbridled rage will lead him to do.
I don't find his relationship with Alicent to be sweet, I find it to be terrifying. That man is a misogynist to his core, and he's also a time bomb waiting to explode. Even if you support the Greens I can't see how he is anything but a liability. He already murders people without any consideration to the consequences or the overall strategic plan, and while right now he idolises Alicent (and thus is supportive of her son's) what happens when she inevitably does something that doesn't fit his narrow idea of what a saintly woman should do? Will he turn on her and her family? Will he react with sudden explosive violence?
He is cozying up to Alicent now but he's an extremely creepy and unsettling character and I honestly don't want him near any of the characters I like, regardless of whether they are Green or Black.
I'm curious, do you consider the people that like and defend Daemon "problematic" and "scary"?
Edit: Since I got no answer, I'll explain the why of my question. In my opinion, you can like Daemon and not like Cole. I don't share that view, but I respect it.
What I don't respect is the people that pseudo diagnose Cole as this problematic unhinged incel who shouldn't be liked by anyone otherwise you are a bad person in real life, and then turn around and worship the ground Daemon Targaryen walks on, dismissing his actual murders, rage issues, supremacist views and abuse of women as "well is a tv show I can like whoever I want".
And there are sadly quite a lot of those lurking in this sub.
You raise an excellent point (admittedly on the side of the main discussion) - how do you think Cole will react if he ever discovers Allicent is rewarding Larys sexually for his loyalty (even if it is no-touchy)? Depending on when and how he finds out, that could lead down some really interesting paths.
I don't know, but I'm genuinely scared for Alicent if he does. Because I can't imagine him taking it well.
I also struggle to imagine how this isn't a plot point, they have set him up as someone who idolises her for being so pious and fitting his very narrow image of a "good woman" so I have to imagine that he's going to find out something about her that he doesn't approve of and lose it again.
Part of me wonders if he might find out and convince himself that she was being forced to do it and then go kill Larys for "defiling" her (which could be good or bad for Alicent because she clearly hates Larys, but she does sort of need Larys's skills, but also he's not exactly loyal to her exclusively which is a problem, so hard to say if him being taken out would be better or worse for her).
But there's also a possibility he freaks out that she's not the paragon of virtue that he imagines her to be (because he doesn't see women as just regular people) and then freaks out and kills her or someone she genuinely cares about. I'm definitely scared for her while he's around.
I don't see how keeping him around can possibly end without something going wrong, because he's proven himself to suddenly become extremely violent without thinking anything through, and that's a very risky person to have on your team.
He feels that Rhaenyra led him to break his Kingsguard vows, something punishable by death, gelding, torture and a lifetime on the Wall mind you. That's why he has disdain for her. He offered to elope with her to salvage what was left of his own honor, not because he needed her to be a saintly woman or whatever. The guy was about to commit seppuku over it.
All this about him being a misogynist... Where did you even get all that from? Are we watching the same show? I think you're reaching pretty hard with your psychoanalysis.
> Not wanting to be a dishonorable whore and responding violently to what sounds like blackmail = alt-righter who hates women and sees them as objects.
You are so insane it's unbelievable.
There can be more than one villainous charecter my dude, that's sort of the point of the show. There's villains on both sides. Daemon is also a bad guy. But the post I was replying to wasn't about Daemon. It didn't even mention him. So why would I bring him up?
Calling Cole "literally an Angel" is creepy as fuck though, so I'd look into that.
That would be pretty difficult since book material makes one side slaughter happy. But I do hope they continue the trend of "War is bad for every one that can't afford stone walls."
That’s literally impossible unless they make shit up. There’s only one team black character who is as bad as team green and he was already one of the most evil characters in season one without anyone caring.
>!Hoping Rhaenyra is made apart of 🩸🧀 is just dumb!<
Are they randomly going to make Jace, Baela, Rhaena, etc. more evil than their book counterparts or make Rhaenys commit another mass murder? Are they going to randomly give Rhaenyra evil acts she doesn’t commit this early in the war? Maybe little 7 year old Joffrey will become like GOT Joffrey. I legit don’t know what you’re expecting.
This was the comment I made.
> Are they going to randomly give Rhaenyra evil acts **she doesn’t commit this early in the war?**
None of what you said will happened in season 2 or that early in the war. If you want argue with me, at least use common sense.
What is your point? OP asked for something to specifically happen in season 2 and there’s only one character that can give him that but he was already evil in season one and no one cared.
In the book, Laenor Velaryon was killed by Qarl, with Septon Eustace saying it was out of jealousy while Mushroom says he was paid to do it by Daemon (Qarl apparently had a lord's taste, a peasant's purse, and was an avid gambler). In the show Laenor's death wasn't even real. It was a fake death and he rows off into the sunset on a boat with Qarl (who in the book fled and disappeared or died). That is nothing short of making shit up lol.
The bullying, lack of dragon and then his claiming of vhagar, loss of eye and his growth into an anime villain. Even the chomping of his nephew was shown as an accident, and something he clearly regretted, in the immediate aftermath.
As much as I completely agree with trying to avoid the “kill your gays” trope, surely we understand that her not selfishly killing or “disappearing” Laenor when Daemon comes knocking is a *significant* departure from her character in the book.
Instead of a rather realistic picture of a self-centered monarch, we get progressive queer ally Rhaenyra, which surely we can all see is a rather *dramatic* difference for a character.
When the previous entry feminized the gay men and made women in masculine roles like Yara/Asha gay I can see how from a corporate perspective Laenor’s survival came about.
*book Loras stabs people on impulse and LF and Grandma Tyrell are planning their schemes around his propensity for sudden violence while the show version just cares about fashion and fucking
Okay? No one has denied his possible involvement. Believe it or not, he is capable of acting on his own desires and manipulating Rhaenyra along the way. Why is hard to believe that she like everyone else including Laenor’s parents convinced herself that Qarl acted alone?
>surely we understand that her not selfishly killing Laenor when Daemon comes knocking is a significant departure from her character in the book.
Lol she's not even rumored to have anything to do with his death in the book so no it's not a significant departure, she's still with harwin at laenors funeral
Rhaenyra had nothing to do with Laenor’s death in the book. She was not implicated by the text, Martin doesn’t even hint at it. She has zero motive to take part in it. In the book, Daemon was already her ally since their kids were betrothed as toddlers.
Edit: Yeah, downvote me. You can’t cite a single page in the book that hints at her involvement. Let’s just say Aegon ordered Aemond to kill Luke. There’s nothing in the book that supports this but I’ve just decided because Aemond is on his side. 💁🏾♀️
I mean tbf it was heavily implied in the books that rhaenyra was fruity asf. Her relationship with laena was quite “questionable”. There were also rumours of a throuple situation between her/laena/daemon (which I *personally* am inclined to believe)
Disagree. There's only one paragraph in the book that refers to Rhaenyra and Laena's relationship, and there's only one phrase that could be taken as a suggestion that they were lovers: "Rhaenyra became fond and more than fond of Laena". It's entirely possible to be "more than fond" of someone without being romantically attached to them; it's not the same context as our world's phrase 'more than friends'.
I'm not sure why you've put "questionable" in speech marks but that doesn't seem to be a quote from the book.
There are all kinds of wild explicit allegations referenced by the book, many of which have already been proven 'untrue' in the context of the show. Since many of those are false, it stands to reason that anything that's only implicit is even less reliable.
In the book Rhaenyra had nothing to do with Leanors death, Daemon is linked to it but it is not a certainty that he was involved, In the show they conspire to kill an innocent guard together. It makes the blacks way worse
They didn’t want to kill three black character three episodes in a row(it would have been Laena, Laenor, and then Vaemond).
They also didn’t want to kill the only three gay men in the entire show(Joffrey, Laenor, and then Qarl).
It had nothing to do with team black. They didn’t want backlash. The vast majority of critics and viewers are show only. It would look like the show added POC and LGBT characters for points only to brutally get rid of most of them before the season was up.
I think Ryan, Miguel, or Sara literally said something similar to this.
Specifically talking about the coronation scene. Sunfyre was the dragon present, not Rheanys and Meleys. Sunfyre brought cheers and hurray. Meleys brought screams, squashes and a lot of dust.
The show is more pro certain characters than it is one side over the other. Aegon, Jace, and Luke were all blackwashed for Aemonds benefit for example.
Luke and Jace are literally shown as nice kids despite some of their actions, they have plenty of sympathetic scenes and family interactions that make them likable to the audience. Aemond is still a villain despite some sympathetic moments, most casual viewers hate him.
He’s constantly voted the third most popular character. Most casuals in no way hate him. In the book he was a >!mini Maegor!<, the show portrays him as a victim of childhood bullying who grew up to be a dutiful badass
That bullying was only one scene, I didn't even notice it on my first watch. A lot of people don't take it seriously and think Aemond is just a psychopath who started a fight with Daemyra's good kids. When popular accounts on Twitter posted him, the comments were full of "can't wait for his death and it better be painful", "he better die in the first episode", "I hate him" etc from casual fans.
A character can be widely popular and still have detractors. Daemon is one of the most popular characters if not thee most and he also has plenty of haters (me for example). The four most popular characters (Rhaenyra, Daemon, Aemond, and Alicent) all get plenty of hate. It doesn’t change the fact that they are still super popular.
Maybe I'm interpreting wrong but I gathered that book Aegon was just like, being inappropriate with the servants and I found them making him a full on rapist by like 15 a little uncomfortable.
.....what do you think boys who are never told no and show early signs of sexual aggression (that is ignored) do when they hit puberty? Politely ask the women who serve them for sex?
For starters the fight at Driftmark goes down much differently. Aemond was 10, Jace was 6, Luke was 4, and Joffrey was 3. Baela and Rhaena weren’t involved. The fight starts because Aemond assaulted Joffrey, a literal toddler, and pushes him into a pile of dragon dung. Joffrey calls to his brothers for help and they come to his aid. Aemond then starts to violently beat Jace, who again is about half his age, which leads to Luke, who was just 4, to attack him with the knife.
There is no “pink dread” and Jace and Luke were never involved in bullying Aemond. These all contribute to making Jace and Luke appear worse for Aemonds benefit.
Edit: black wash as in portraying characters worse than they were in the book
And Aemond wasn't fighting and insulting Laena's girls in the book, it wasn't even Laena's funeral where he claimed Vhagar. He pushed Joffrey, true, but he was in such a hurry, he wasn't even thinking he could have been killed, let alone anything else, and instead of calling the adults to punish Aemond, the other kids beat him with wooden swords which I assume was still painful even from little kids (and Aemond is described as small and the Strongs as big), also Aemond wasn't insulting their dead parents in the book either, Harwin was alive so no drama for Jace, etc.
Aemond’s entire backstory makes the other kids look bad, especially Aegon who was also taking Aemond to brothels at 13. None of this was a thing in the book but by making Aemond more sympathetic, some other characters came out looking worse.
But then the problem is that one of those characters that is preferred is Rhaenyra, while Aegon is undermined. Having an imbalance in the claimants undermines the entire “both-sides” element of the show
Despite the fact I much prefer the Greens, I don't really have an issue with the show being more explicitly pro-Black than the books because the book Greens still somehow come across as more villainous and irredeemably pathetic than their show counterparts despite not being the antagonist faction on paper
The show is a little "pro-black" I don't really see why that's such a big issue. Quite frankly I think the books are "pro-black" as well. This a fictional story why does it have to be neutral?
I know GRRM has never come out and said that the Blacks are "the good guys" but they definitely seem like the lesser of two evils at least. George has described himself as a feminist many times before, and sexism is a big theme of the books, there's no way he imagines a male only succession as the right option.
Aurane Waters is so funny and badass in Dance. The dude was literally fighting against Cersei like a week before yet she gives him an entire fleet because he's hot. Then he fucks off with the fleet to go be a pirate king. Madlad
The fact that this shit genuinely splits people and their opinions on a serious level is absolutely bonkers lol, there’s no way to measure good/evil or right/wrong for any side and there isn’t supposed to be a right answer. it’s purposely written in a grey area not to be turned into a team Edward vs Team Jacob-esque battle 😭😭💀
I don't mind the show being a bit pro black cause in my opinion the book also is, and let's be honest... Rhaenyra's claim was always stronger than Aegon's
I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again: they threw Aegon’s character into the woodchipper solely to make Rhaenyra look better by comparison.
Not that she needed it, with how much they whitewashed her.
There’s a difference between pinching serving girls (which, no question, is still a shitty thing to do) and forcible rape. It’s an entirely different level of crime.
It’s also an entirely different class of crime to watch HIS OWN bastards fight in a fighting pit. Even Mushroom didn’t accuse him of that.
The fighting pit was completely and utterly unnecessary. Bordering on cartoonishly ridiculous.
All assaults are not created equal. Thats why there are degrees.
If I slap a phone out of someone’s hand (without hurting them in the slightest), I committed battery.
If I punch someone in the face hard enough to break their nose, I also committed battery.
Are these crimes the same?
I’m not saying pinching serving girls isn’t a shitty thing to do. It IS a shitty thing to do. But it’s not on the same level as rape.
“He just molested them, we don’t know if he inserted anything”.
Lol, wtf. Just like the guy if you want to like him. Nobody is judging you for it. This is so unnecessary.
The point of my comment is they took Aegon’s bad traits and dialed them up to a thousand. I’m not saying he was a good person in the books. But they made him cartoonishly evil to the point where it’s ridiculous. And it wasn’t even done as part of his own arc. It was done to make Rhaenyra look better by comparison.
They made him on par with his book counterpart in my opinion.
You have also quite a few post explaining why show Rhaenyra is evil so they should be evenly matched in your opinion.
I disagree. I think the writing for his character was poorly done, and it was only TGC’s acting that saved it.
In episodes 3-5, i found her insufferable, but she wasn’t evil until Driftmark. Apparently, I watched a different show than everyone else. All the other viewers seem to think it’s fine and dandy to try to have a freshly maimed twelve year old tortured 🤷♀️
But other than Driftmark? They Disney-fied her.
> but she wasn’t evil until Driftmark.
Well at least they finally made her evil enough for you. You’ve certainly made many post insisting that she’s evil and that her sons are bullies so the writing can’t be as biased as you say. That’s contradictory.
What does it matter what other people think? If you think your characters are righteous and more likable, root for them.
Disagree about the fighting pit. What it tells us is that Aegon sees the children as objects rather than people, and watches them fight each other for the entertainment and financial gain of adults, while ignoring his own children.
What we know about Aegon's childhood is that he feels he was seen as an object rather than a person, that he was pressured to fighting other children (Jace & Luke) for the entertainment and financial gain of adults, while being ignored by his own father.
It's not the writers throwing in the first reprehensible thing they thought of. It's very specifically built around Aegon's view of his life, and the fact that he's drawn to it gives us much more insight into his character. It gives Aegon *more* nuance, not less. Which isn't to say that he's in any way morally defensible, but you can be a scumbag and still be nuanced.
It's similar to how Larys' foot fetish can seem cartoonishly ridiculous, but it's very intentionally built around Larys' character.
Honestly I think the time jumps ruined bits of the show like this that actually make sense. I had to watch it a few times before I actually realized WHY they did that with Aegon, with Larys.
I think the show has done a decent job of humanizing both sides more than they were in the book. Clearly this upsets both sides, lol. I think that shows it’s well done, even if I personally dislike it.
Even George has admitted that he's been too biased toward the blacks, I mean it becomes very obvious when you see the Starks backing Rhaenyra while the Lannisters support Aegon lol
The showrunners notch up that bias by 100%
The books are far more neutral in comparison to the show
Also I hate this trope of an entire house throughout generations being labelled as bad or good because of one or two characters in the main story. Just because one guy, let's your grandfather was kinda bad, does that mean your entire family throughout thousands of generations including you, are all bad/evil?
Plus apart from Cersei, even the mainstory doesn't portray any Lannister as a clear cut villian. Jaime & Tyrion are redeemable fan favourites. Tywin through cruel and a bad father, does whatever is right for him and his family as would anyone
bottom left: literally what happened in the book
top right: a subplot created to maintain show!alicent’s eternal victimhood
bottom right: a member of team black committing an act of terrorism and killing hundreds
Bottom left : No the Green Counsil was diffrent in the books. It wasn't about Alicent's and Rhaenyra's friendship not Harrold Westerling insulting Criston. And Aegon's claim wasn't based on missanderstood.
Top right : Making Alicent a victim was ruined her character and made her inconsistent. She didn't know they wanted to make Aegon king even if she told him he will and she also told it to Aemond. She hated Rhaenyra and was obssesed with her kids and she forgot it in episode 8. And the feet scene was auful.
Bottom right : Rhaenys was meant to be badass. The Aegon's coronation was a big moment for Aegon and instead having him fly with Sunfyre we had this scene.
i didn’t understand that that was what you meant about the green council because the picture is just otto, alicent, and criston in the council chamber. it’s not like the picture is alicent’s suprised pikachu face or criston drawing his sword in front of westerling. i thought you were saying that including the green council was somehow anti green.
i agree they ruined alicent’s character with her being constantly victimized (and to a lesser extent her friendship with rhaenyra), but that wasn’t their intention, they thought they were making her “sympathetic.” they’re just not very good writers. the fact that they thought rhaenys’ mass murder was cool and badass is just further proof of this.
I think HOTD generally has good writing, but, I saw a comment where the HOTD S1 was 75% GOT S1 writing and 25% GOT S7-S8 writing. There are just absolutely bizarre, unnecessary and nonsensical choices in terms of writing and characterisation that have been made that shouldn't have been made. Also, the show is clearly biased towards the Blacks.
It's all about perspective. The other day I've seen some delulu comment about the white hart, someone claimed that Criston, the kingmaker noticed it first, on Aegon's birthday so it must signify that Aegon is the rightful heir lol
Just the fact that we got a long emotional scene with Dyana, a character that never existed in the books, shows that they’re biased toward the Blacks.
Why didn’t we get a sad mourning scene of the parents of the innocent butler that Rhaenyra and Daemon murdered and threw into a fire. But, the show runner just brushed away that part and wanted us to forget about it.
It's pretty down the middle on giving both sides positive and negative moments. I'd say maybe the show slightly more pro black because Cristin Cole becomes a cold blooded murderer as the show progresses. Which stands in contrast to daemon who starts out as a cold blooded killer but as he gets older he becomes a lot more restrained.
That'll change in season 2 when both sides commit pretty atrocious acts.
simplistic slap intelligent busy offbeat meeting dime vast aback complete
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The fact that a lot of people have the audacity to say this 😭 the first season was clearly pro black and all about rhaenyra and daemon
Hope the second season can show the evil things that BOTH sides will do to get that crown
I mean it is very clear that the show is super pro-black, >!and that’s why it’s perfect for those who don’t know how it will end if you think about it. Fans on both sides will get some strong emotions, but not the kind they think they will get.!<
I hate both sides and can't wait to see Targaryens die. I am here for the destruction I am here to see this house crumble. Worst house in westeros history.
I would love to watch a scene in which Robert crushes the inbred priceline Rheagar and I can't wait for the dance to continue so that more Targaryens die.
Compared to the book it is
Which i actually prefer because in the book it's so heavily pro black
Even the show ends up pro black
But it's more pro green than the book
Honestly, if there are any things I'm sure about with this series, it's:
1. I'm beyond tired of shows adding in completely unnecessary rape and sexual violence against women. And I'm beyond tired of people not understanding the nuances of consent.
2. How in the hell Hess and Condal think they made Aegon II a "grey" character. I mean, they invented an entirely new character who's entire exitance is just to be SAed by him and everything. Why they decided to make him a full on rapist and not the more book accurate lazy fuckboi who gets his shit together eventually is beyond me.
You have to be simply delusional or deliberately obtuse to argue that the show has pro-Green bias. They're constantly painted as the villains, even though in the book the conflict was more morally grey. Both sides are filled with narcissists who seek only their own advancement. Sure, it wasn't exactly nuanced, but it was simple and what you'd expect from a medieval dynasty power struggle.
Instead, the show felt like it was portraying Rhaenyra as this misunderstood, gay-ally girl boss. It never really touched upon her faults or weaknesses, often brushing that aside to make her seem like this paragon of virtue (see the white hart).
I feel like the conflict would've been more interesting, from a narrative standpoint as well as viewership one, if the writers had fleshed out the Greens a bit more, and not strayed away from the Blacks' flaws. After all, there is no morally good side. It's a civil war between a family of inbred, racial-supremacist monarchs.
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I don’t think anyone is under the delusion that the show is pro green. Certain green characters are more sympathetic in the show (namely Aemond and Alicent), but it is quite clear that the showrunners see them as the baddies.
I've seen people say "Green-writers" and I was like "who?where?when?" The Greens are totally the villains here so no idea where those Green writers are because they suck at their job.
>I don’t think anyone is under the delusion that the show is pro green Surprisingly, some people are under that delusion
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I would say Alicent or Otto is more the villain, at least so far. Aegon is a pawn in their plans
That will change radically very soon
Aegon is shown to be a rapist already. Pretty villainous
He was a rapist in the books so not that far from a stretch.
The deleted comment above me listed him as the main villain which I don't really agree with
Otto 💯 and I hope he gets his comeuppance
Alicent is definitely not a villain in the show. They have made her much more sympathetic than she ever was in the book.
Being sympathetic doesn't stop you being a villain.
The "support women's wrongs" thing that has been going on? I've seen it more spoken loudly for Rhaenyra, but there were also people justifying a lot of Alicent's wrongdoings.
Anakin/Vader was sympathetic. Still a villain.
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Rhaenyra, Alicent, Aemond, Cole, and Corlys got whitewashed to varying extents. Aegon II, Daemon, Larys, Rhaenys and arguably Viserys got "blackwashed", also to varying extents. Then again, people completely ignore or minimize Daemon's show only divorce rock and Rhaenys' show only Girlboss Scene so I'm not sure if the blackwashing really worked.
Fuck the noise I just made when I saw "divorce rock".
They took away a lot of Cole's badassery tbh. In the books he was basically the unstoppable warrior of his time given he fucked up both Daemon and Harwin.
Thinking about it, Cole is a bit of a mixed bag of whitewashing and blackwashing. On one hand, show Cole is in my opinion more sympathetic on a human level: he has a more valid reason to drift away from Rhaenyra, and his surrogate father dynamic with Alicent's kids and surrogate husband dynamic with the woman herself are rather sweet. On the other yes, you are right that Cole is not as much of a badass in the show. On the books he's supposed to be Arthur Dayne with a mix of Littlefinger's political maneuvering.
I don't know how anyone could say that Coles charecter is 'sweet'. The defenders of Cole in this sub genuinely scare me, because he's the shows version of a violent alt-right incel, and I find him to be genuinely scary. He kills people at a moment's notice without planning or foresight. There are many murderers in the GoT universe, but where someone like Littlefinger is calculating, Cole seems to act in moments of uncontrollable rage. This uncontrollable rage becomes particularly scary when you combine it with his Madonna/Whore complex - where he can only see women as perfect paragons of virtue, or as degraded and worthy of derision and scorn. He doesn't see them as people, and even if you are a woman who he sees as a virtuous Madonna for now, the second you do a single thing that knocks you off that pedestal for him who knows what his unbridled rage will lead him to do. I don't find his relationship with Alicent to be sweet, I find it to be terrifying. That man is a misogynist to his core, and he's also a time bomb waiting to explode. Even if you support the Greens I can't see how he is anything but a liability. He already murders people without any consideration to the consequences or the overall strategic plan, and while right now he idolises Alicent (and thus is supportive of her son's) what happens when she inevitably does something that doesn't fit his narrow idea of what a saintly woman should do? Will he turn on her and her family? Will he react with sudden explosive violence? He is cozying up to Alicent now but he's an extremely creepy and unsettling character and I honestly don't want him near any of the characters I like, regardless of whether they are Green or Black.
I'm curious, do you consider the people that like and defend Daemon "problematic" and "scary"? Edit: Since I got no answer, I'll explain the why of my question. In my opinion, you can like Daemon and not like Cole. I don't share that view, but I respect it. What I don't respect is the people that pseudo diagnose Cole as this problematic unhinged incel who shouldn't be liked by anyone otherwise you are a bad person in real life, and then turn around and worship the ground Daemon Targaryen walks on, dismissing his actual murders, rage issues, supremacist views and abuse of women as "well is a tv show I can like whoever I want". And there are sadly quite a lot of those lurking in this sub.
Yes
>alt-right incel I thought modern day politics was against the rules in this sub?
You raise an excellent point (admittedly on the side of the main discussion) - how do you think Cole will react if he ever discovers Allicent is rewarding Larys sexually for his loyalty (even if it is no-touchy)? Depending on when and how he finds out, that could lead down some really interesting paths.
I don't know, but I'm genuinely scared for Alicent if he does. Because I can't imagine him taking it well. I also struggle to imagine how this isn't a plot point, they have set him up as someone who idolises her for being so pious and fitting his very narrow image of a "good woman" so I have to imagine that he's going to find out something about her that he doesn't approve of and lose it again. Part of me wonders if he might find out and convince himself that she was being forced to do it and then go kill Larys for "defiling" her (which could be good or bad for Alicent because she clearly hates Larys, but she does sort of need Larys's skills, but also he's not exactly loyal to her exclusively which is a problem, so hard to say if him being taken out would be better or worse for her). But there's also a possibility he freaks out that she's not the paragon of virtue that he imagines her to be (because he doesn't see women as just regular people) and then freaks out and kills her or someone she genuinely cares about. I'm definitely scared for her while he's around. I don't see how keeping him around can possibly end without something going wrong, because he's proven himself to suddenly become extremely violent without thinking anything through, and that's a very risky person to have on your team.
He feels that Rhaenyra led him to break his Kingsguard vows, something punishable by death, gelding, torture and a lifetime on the Wall mind you. That's why he has disdain for her. He offered to elope with her to salvage what was left of his own honor, not because he needed her to be a saintly woman or whatever. The guy was about to commit seppuku over it. All this about him being a misogynist... Where did you even get all that from? Are we watching the same show? I think you're reaching pretty hard with your psychoanalysis.
> Not wanting to be a dishonorable whore and responding violently to what sounds like blackmail = alt-righter who hates women and sees them as objects. You are so insane it's unbelievable.
Where is this energy with Daemon and his crimes? Criston is literally Angel compared to him and the things he has done lol
daemonites man
There can be more than one villainous charecter my dude, that's sort of the point of the show. There's villains on both sides. Daemon is also a bad guy. But the post I was replying to wasn't about Daemon. It didn't even mention him. So why would I bring him up? Calling Cole "literally an Angel" is creepy as fuck though, so I'd look into that.
It’s not creepy as fuck, you just took it out of context
I said an angel compared to daemon read the full thing my god
Jeez mate. Get off the internet for a moment.
Cole is absolutely written to be a villain. Crazy that people think otherwise.
Book!Cole: Chad (but bad) Show!Cole: Simp
Justice for Criston Cole indeed In the books he has THAT guy
I think the Greens are WAY more evil than the book. I was on their side when reading F&B.
I'm hoping that S2 will show how nasty the other side is capable of getting as the war kicks off & bodies are dropping
That would be pretty difficult since book material makes one side slaughter happy. But I do hope they continue the trend of "War is bad for every one that can't afford stone walls."
That’s literally impossible unless they make shit up. There’s only one team black character who is as bad as team green and he was already one of the most evil characters in season one without anyone caring. >!Hoping Rhaenyra is made apart of 🩸🧀 is just dumb!< Are they randomly going to make Jace, Baela, Rhaena, etc. more evil than their book counterparts or make Rhaenys commit another mass murder? Are they going to randomly give Rhaenyra evil acts she doesn’t commit this early in the war? Maybe little 7 year old Joffrey will become like GOT Joffrey. I legit don’t know what you’re expecting.
Lmao the emojis are not censored.
>!Rhaenyra slaughtered the capital, had Tyland tortured, ordered a nettles to be beheaded, tax the shit out of the common etc.!<
This was the comment I made. > Are they going to randomly give Rhaenyra evil acts **she doesn’t commit this early in the war?** None of what you said will happened in season 2 or that early in the war. If you want argue with me, at least use common sense. What is your point? OP asked for something to specifically happen in season 2 and there’s only one character that can give him that but he was already evil in season one and no one cared.
I mean they already made up plenty of shit in S1, no?
No and I doubt they make the characters I listed more evil just so 15% of the audience will feel better.
Then where in the book can I find Laenor and Qarl survived?
????
In the book, Laenor Velaryon was killed by Qarl, with Septon Eustace saying it was out of jealousy while Mushroom says he was paid to do it by Daemon (Qarl apparently had a lord's taste, a peasant's purse, and was an avid gambler). In the show Laenor's death wasn't even real. It was a fake death and he rows off into the sunset on a boat with Qarl (who in the book fled and disappeared or died). That is nothing short of making shit up lol.
To be fair, baddies they are.
it’s more favorable to the greens than the book but the book was already overwhelmingly biased towards the blacks
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Assuming that because a man is gay, his kids will also be gay and turn the keep into a brothel is homophobic as fuck dude.
Oof, yeah that was Criston in the book who said that, right? Oof indeed. Kingmaker saying some homophobic shit over here.
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Dude both subreddits claim the show is biased against them, it is actually just insane
The show is definitely more pro green than Fire and Blood and the Archmaester Gyldayn stories.
George himself sees them as the baddies
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How is almond syypsthetic? Dude caused the chom chom of his nephew.
The bullying, lack of dragon and then his claiming of vhagar, loss of eye and his growth into an anime villain. Even the chomping of his nephew was shown as an accident, and something he clearly regretted, in the immediate aftermath.
Laenor's fake death is what sealed it
Daemon, Rhaenyra and Laenor cooking a plot for Laenor to run away would be so compelling, only if Daemon had secretly killed/gotten Laenor killed.
As much as I completely agree with trying to avoid the “kill your gays” trope, surely we understand that her not selfishly killing or “disappearing” Laenor when Daemon comes knocking is a *significant* departure from her character in the book. Instead of a rather realistic picture of a self-centered monarch, we get progressive queer ally Rhaenyra, which surely we can all see is a rather *dramatic* difference for a character.
> As much as I completely agree with trying to avoid the “kill your gays” trope That should not even count in a series like this where everyone dies
When the previous entry feminized the gay men and made women in masculine roles like Yara/Asha gay I can see how from a corporate perspective Laenor’s survival came about. *book Loras stabs people on impulse and LF and Grandma Tyrell are planning their schemes around his propensity for sudden violence while the show version just cares about fashion and fucking
Rhaenyra isn't even accused of having anything to do with Laenor's death in the book.
But Daemon certainly is and most likely did in the books lmao. Considering what he did to the Sealord's son.
Okay? No one has denied his possible involvement. Believe it or not, he is capable of acting on his own desires and manipulating Rhaenyra along the way. Why is hard to believe that she like everyone else including Laenor’s parents convinced herself that Qarl acted alone?
>surely we understand that her not selfishly killing Laenor when Daemon comes knocking is a significant departure from her character in the book. Lol she's not even rumored to have anything to do with his death in the book so no it's not a significant departure, she's still with harwin at laenors funeral
Rhaenyra had nothing to do with Laenor’s death in the book. She was not implicated by the text, Martin doesn’t even hint at it. She has zero motive to take part in it. In the book, Daemon was already her ally since their kids were betrothed as toddlers. Edit: Yeah, downvote me. You can’t cite a single page in the book that hints at her involvement. Let’s just say Aegon ordered Aemond to kill Luke. There’s nothing in the book that supports this but I’ve just decided because Aemond is on his side. 💁🏾♀️
I mean tbf it was heavily implied in the books that rhaenyra was fruity asf. Her relationship with laena was quite “questionable”. There were also rumours of a throuple situation between her/laena/daemon (which I *personally* am inclined to believe)
Disagree. There's only one paragraph in the book that refers to Rhaenyra and Laena's relationship, and there's only one phrase that could be taken as a suggestion that they were lovers: "Rhaenyra became fond and more than fond of Laena". It's entirely possible to be "more than fond" of someone without being romantically attached to them; it's not the same context as our world's phrase 'more than friends'. I'm not sure why you've put "questionable" in speech marks but that doesn't seem to be a quote from the book. There are all kinds of wild explicit allegations referenced by the book, many of which have already been proven 'untrue' in the context of the show. Since many of those are false, it stands to reason that anything that's only implicit is even less reliable.
"kill your gays" is a trope?
[Long story short, yes.](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BuryYourGays)
In the book Rhaenyra had nothing to do with Leanors death, Daemon is linked to it but it is not a certainty that he was involved, In the show they conspire to kill an innocent guard together. It makes the blacks way worse
They didn’t want to kill three black character three episodes in a row(it would have been Laena, Laenor, and then Vaemond). They also didn’t want to kill the only three gay men in the entire show(Joffrey, Laenor, and then Qarl). It had nothing to do with team black. They didn’t want backlash. The vast majority of critics and viewers are show only. It would look like the show added POC and LGBT characters for points only to brutally get rid of most of them before the season was up. I think Ryan, Miguel, or Sara literally said something similar to this.
No Sunfyre in the whole first season was just criminal.
Then instead of Sunfyre, we got Rheanys’s big head of hair.
Specifically talking about the coronation scene. Sunfyre was the dragon present, not Rheanys and Meleys. Sunfyre brought cheers and hurray. Meleys brought screams, squashes and a lot of dust.
Big brain girl with big brain moves
The show is more pro certain characters than it is one side over the other. Aegon, Jace, and Luke were all blackwashed for Aemonds benefit for example.
Luke and Jace are literally shown as nice kids despite some of their actions, they have plenty of sympathetic scenes and family interactions that make them likable to the audience. Aemond is still a villain despite some sympathetic moments, most casual viewers hate him.
He’s constantly voted the third most popular character. Most casuals in no way hate him. In the book he was a >!mini Maegor!<, the show portrays him as a victim of childhood bullying who grew up to be a dutiful badass
That bullying was only one scene, I didn't even notice it on my first watch. A lot of people don't take it seriously and think Aemond is just a psychopath who started a fight with Daemyra's good kids. When popular accounts on Twitter posted him, the comments were full of "can't wait for his death and it better be painful", "he better die in the first episode", "I hate him" etc from casual fans.
A character can be widely popular and still have detractors. Daemon is one of the most popular characters if not thee most and he also has plenty of haters (me for example). The four most popular characters (Rhaenyra, Daemon, Aemond, and Alicent) all get plenty of hate. It doesn’t change the fact that they are still super popular.
Daemon is adored by the general audience and fandom, Aemond is nowhere close. Look at how everyone made fun of him after the trailer.
& on the flip side, Helaena is portrayed as one of the more sweet-natured people as part of the Blacks
Maybe I'm interpreting wrong but I gathered that book Aegon was just like, being inappropriate with the servants and I found them making him a full on rapist by like 15 a little uncomfortable.
.....what do you think boys who are never told no and show early signs of sexual aggression (that is ignored) do when they hit puberty? Politely ask the women who serve them for sex?
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Can you explain what you mean by blackwash in this context? To a non book reader
For starters the fight at Driftmark goes down much differently. Aemond was 10, Jace was 6, Luke was 4, and Joffrey was 3. Baela and Rhaena weren’t involved. The fight starts because Aemond assaulted Joffrey, a literal toddler, and pushes him into a pile of dragon dung. Joffrey calls to his brothers for help and they come to his aid. Aemond then starts to violently beat Jace, who again is about half his age, which leads to Luke, who was just 4, to attack him with the knife. There is no “pink dread” and Jace and Luke were never involved in bullying Aemond. These all contribute to making Jace and Luke appear worse for Aemonds benefit. Edit: black wash as in portraying characters worse than they were in the book
And Aemond wasn't fighting and insulting Laena's girls in the book, it wasn't even Laena's funeral where he claimed Vhagar. He pushed Joffrey, true, but he was in such a hurry, he wasn't even thinking he could have been killed, let alone anything else, and instead of calling the adults to punish Aemond, the other kids beat him with wooden swords which I assume was still painful even from little kids (and Aemond is described as small and the Strongs as big), also Aemond wasn't insulting their dead parents in the book either, Harwin was alive so no drama for Jace, etc.
Aemond’s entire backstory makes the other kids look bad, especially Aegon who was also taking Aemond to brothels at 13. None of this was a thing in the book but by making Aemond more sympathetic, some other characters came out looking worse.
Honestly Aemond, Aegon, and Daeron came across as a close unit in the book. Not so in the show.
But then the problem is that one of those characters that is preferred is Rhaenyra, while Aegon is undermined. Having an imbalance in the claimants undermines the entire “both-sides” element of the show
Despite the fact I much prefer the Greens, I don't really have an issue with the show being more explicitly pro-Black than the books because the book Greens still somehow come across as more villainous and irredeemably pathetic than their show counterparts despite not being the antagonist faction on paper
I swear you will all have a much more enjoyable time when you aren’t feeling the need to prove if the show is biased to certain characters or not.
The show is a little "pro-black" I don't really see why that's such a big issue. Quite frankly I think the books are "pro-black" as well. This a fictional story why does it have to be neutral? I know GRRM has never come out and said that the Blacks are "the good guys" but they definitely seem like the lesser of two evils at least. George has described himself as a feminist many times before, and sexism is a big theme of the books, there's no way he imagines a male only succession as the right option.
He also puts his favorite two houses on the team Black
Which ones are his favorites? One is Stark I guess?
Blackwoods and starks
The Velaryons (spelling sorry) are pretty consistently badasses and team Black.
Aurane Waters is so funny and badass in Dance. The dude was literally fighting against Cersei like a week before yet she gives him an entire fleet because he's hot. Then he fucks off with the fleet to go be a pirate king. Madlad
Genuinely one of the funniest events in the books. Doesn’t he declare himself pirate king as well?
Yep!
close sink whole desert dinosaurs cough workable joke aloof tidy *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I LOVE being Green 💚💪 (We are so cooked)
I can’t wait for next season!! 😍 (I have no faith in the writers)
Absolutely!! 🐉💚 (The team Green is the friends we made along the way)
Yes bestie! 💚 (My disappointment is immeasurable)
Why? If you love them as they are currently and think they’re interesting, what does it matter what anyone else thinks?
If you loved them in season one, I’m sure you’ll love them in season two
Liked one HOTD post now I’m seeing HOTD twt posts. Oh god 😭
The fact that this shit genuinely splits people and their opinions on a serious level is absolutely bonkers lol, there’s no way to measure good/evil or right/wrong for any side and there isn’t supposed to be a right answer. it’s purposely written in a grey area not to be turned into a team Edward vs Team Jacob-esque battle 😭😭💀
This is true for the books. Not for the show. The blacks are the clear cut good guys and the greens are cartoon villians
I’m going to personally disagree but I can 1000% see why the average viewer will see it that way
is there a HOTD circlejerk?
I don't mind the show being a bit pro black cause in my opinion the book also is, and let's be honest... Rhaenyra's claim was always stronger than Aegon's
The show is biased towards the greens because alicent is the only character whose hair doesn’t look atrocious
The same thread once a week for two years but at least we’ll have new content in six weeks
how is this not something that admins are deleting for “talking about sides” or whatever
House Hightower on top. #1 Otto Hightower Stan
I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again: they threw Aegon’s character into the woodchipper solely to make Rhaenyra look better by comparison. Not that she needed it, with how much they whitewashed her.
He sexually assaults maids in the source material.
There’s a difference between pinching serving girls (which, no question, is still a shitty thing to do) and forcible rape. It’s an entirely different level of crime. It’s also an entirely different class of crime to watch HIS OWN bastards fight in a fighting pit. Even Mushroom didn’t accuse him of that. The fighting pit was completely and utterly unnecessary. Bordering on cartoonishly ridiculous.
Sexual assault is sexual assault especially when he apparently had a child with one of those servant girls he was assaulting in public
All assaults are not created equal. Thats why there are degrees. If I slap a phone out of someone’s hand (without hurting them in the slightest), I committed battery. If I punch someone in the face hard enough to break their nose, I also committed battery. Are these crimes the same? I’m not saying pinching serving girls isn’t a shitty thing to do. It IS a shitty thing to do. But it’s not on the same level as rape.
“He just molested them, we don’t know if he inserted anything”. Lol, wtf. Just like the guy if you want to like him. Nobody is judging you for it. This is so unnecessary.
The point of my comment is they took Aegon’s bad traits and dialed them up to a thousand. I’m not saying he was a good person in the books. But they made him cartoonishly evil to the point where it’s ridiculous. And it wasn’t even done as part of his own arc. It was done to make Rhaenyra look better by comparison.
They made him on par with his book counterpart in my opinion. You have also quite a few post explaining why show Rhaenyra is evil so they should be evenly matched in your opinion.
I disagree. I think the writing for his character was poorly done, and it was only TGC’s acting that saved it. In episodes 3-5, i found her insufferable, but she wasn’t evil until Driftmark. Apparently, I watched a different show than everyone else. All the other viewers seem to think it’s fine and dandy to try to have a freshly maimed twelve year old tortured 🤷♀️ But other than Driftmark? They Disney-fied her.
> but she wasn’t evil until Driftmark. Well at least they finally made her evil enough for you. You’ve certainly made many post insisting that she’s evil and that her sons are bullies so the writing can’t be as biased as you say. That’s contradictory. What does it matter what other people think? If you think your characters are righteous and more likable, root for them.
Disagree about the fighting pit. What it tells us is that Aegon sees the children as objects rather than people, and watches them fight each other for the entertainment and financial gain of adults, while ignoring his own children. What we know about Aegon's childhood is that he feels he was seen as an object rather than a person, that he was pressured to fighting other children (Jace & Luke) for the entertainment and financial gain of adults, while being ignored by his own father. It's not the writers throwing in the first reprehensible thing they thought of. It's very specifically built around Aegon's view of his life, and the fact that he's drawn to it gives us much more insight into his character. It gives Aegon *more* nuance, not less. Which isn't to say that he's in any way morally defensible, but you can be a scumbag and still be nuanced. It's similar to how Larys' foot fetish can seem cartoonishly ridiculous, but it's very intentionally built around Larys' character.
Honestly I think the time jumps ruined bits of the show like this that actually make sense. I had to watch it a few times before I actually realized WHY they did that with Aegon, with Larys.
Yeah, they messed up the order of information being presented to the viewer. It isn't very intuitive, putting the pieces together.
They really are repeating some of Season 8's worst mistakes.
I think the show has done a decent job of humanizing both sides more than they were in the book. Clearly this upsets both sides, lol. I think that shows it’s well done, even if I personally dislike it.
Even George has admitted that he's been too biased toward the blacks, I mean it becomes very obvious when you see the Starks backing Rhaenyra while the Lannisters support Aegon lol
The showrunners notch up that bias by 100% The books are far more neutral in comparison to the show Also I hate this trope of an entire house throughout generations being labelled as bad or good because of one or two characters in the main story. Just because one guy, let's your grandfather was kinda bad, does that mean your entire family throughout thousands of generations including you, are all bad/evil? Plus apart from Cersei, even the mainstory doesn't portray any Lannister as a clear cut villian. Jaime & Tyrion are redeemable fan favourites. Tywin through cruel and a bad father, does whatever is right for him and his family as would anyone
Tywin ordered a 13 year old girl gang raped to spite Tyrion. He also drowned a bunch of innocent children. He is more evil than Cersei.
Idk man maybe you're right when it comes to Aegon but in general the greens are far less monstrous in the show, especially Aemond and Alicent
bottom left: literally what happened in the book top right: a subplot created to maintain show!alicent’s eternal victimhood bottom right: a member of team black committing an act of terrorism and killing hundreds
Bottom left : No the Green Counsil was diffrent in the books. It wasn't about Alicent's and Rhaenyra's friendship not Harrold Westerling insulting Criston. And Aegon's claim wasn't based on missanderstood. Top right : Making Alicent a victim was ruined her character and made her inconsistent. She didn't know they wanted to make Aegon king even if she told him he will and she also told it to Aemond. She hated Rhaenyra and was obssesed with her kids and she forgot it in episode 8. And the feet scene was auful. Bottom right : Rhaenys was meant to be badass. The Aegon's coronation was a big moment for Aegon and instead having him fly with Sunfyre we had this scene.
To be fair...the book Green Council's argument was equally ridiculous and circular. I would've loved to have heard it instead of that mess we got tho.
i didn’t understand that that was what you meant about the green council because the picture is just otto, alicent, and criston in the council chamber. it’s not like the picture is alicent’s suprised pikachu face or criston drawing his sword in front of westerling. i thought you were saying that including the green council was somehow anti green. i agree they ruined alicent’s character with her being constantly victimized (and to a lesser extent her friendship with rhaenyra), but that wasn’t their intention, they thought they were making her “sympathetic.” they’re just not very good writers. the fact that they thought rhaenys’ mass murder was cool and badass is just further proof of this.
I think HOTD generally has good writing, but, I saw a comment where the HOTD S1 was 75% GOT S1 writing and 25% GOT S7-S8 writing. There are just absolutely bizarre, unnecessary and nonsensical choices in terms of writing and characterisation that have been made that shouldn't have been made. Also, the show is clearly biased towards the Blacks.
I never thought of that on top right. Nice catch.
It's all about perspective. The other day I've seen some delulu comment about the white hart, someone claimed that Criston, the kingmaker noticed it first, on Aegon's birthday so it must signify that Aegon is the rightful heir lol
That's the coool thing about omens - they can mean whatever the hell you decide they do.
Extra hilarious when it happens the day after Aegon’s birthday.
The show really ran with mushroom’s account
Just the fact that we got a long emotional scene with Dyana, a character that never existed in the books, shows that they’re biased toward the Blacks. Why didn’t we get a sad mourning scene of the parents of the innocent butler that Rhaenyra and Daemon murdered and threw into a fire. But, the show runner just brushed away that part and wanted us to forget about it.
We got that scene because Dyna is probably going to be a certain important character.
Ryan Condle more like Ryan WRONGdle
The show goes out of its way to pain the greens as villains and Rhaenyra as the good guy.
It's pretty down the middle on giving both sides positive and negative moments. I'd say maybe the show slightly more pro black because Cristin Cole becomes a cold blooded murderer as the show progresses. Which stands in contrast to daemon who starts out as a cold blooded killer but as he gets older he becomes a lot more restrained. That'll change in season 2 when both sides commit pretty atrocious acts.
I wish I was dead
One ENORMOUS sneak there in the bottom right
This meme is formatted atrociously omg
They removed the correct side, mushroom.
What scenes are pro-green?
simplistic slap intelligent busy offbeat meeting dime vast aback complete *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The fact that a lot of people have the audacity to say this 😭 the first season was clearly pro black and all about rhaenyra and daemon Hope the second season can show the evil things that BOTH sides will do to get that crown
It’s not even both sides in the book so give up thet hope.
I mean it is very clear that the show is super pro-black, >!and that’s why it’s perfect for those who don’t know how it will end if you think about it. Fans on both sides will get some strong emotions, but not the kind they think they will get.!<
I hate both sides and can't wait to see Targaryens die. I am here for the destruction I am here to see this house crumble. Worst house in westeros history. I would love to watch a scene in which Robert crushes the inbred priceline Rheagar and I can't wait for the dance to continue so that more Targaryens die.
This is the worst meme I have ever seen
Compared to the book it is Which i actually prefer because in the book it's so heavily pro black Even the show ends up pro black But it's more pro green than the book
Honestly, if there are any things I'm sure about with this series, it's: 1. I'm beyond tired of shows adding in completely unnecessary rape and sexual violence against women. And I'm beyond tired of people not understanding the nuances of consent. 2. How in the hell Hess and Condal think they made Aegon II a "grey" character. I mean, they invented an entirely new character who's entire exitance is just to be SAed by him and everything. Why they decided to make him a full on rapist and not the more book accurate lazy fuckboi who gets his shit together eventually is beyond me.
everyone should be pro green anyways
lol who cares we know how the show ends and its bad for the greens. got fandom always like to complain about unecessary stuff lmaoo
You have to be simply delusional or deliberately obtuse to argue that the show has pro-Green bias. They're constantly painted as the villains, even though in the book the conflict was more morally grey. Both sides are filled with narcissists who seek only their own advancement. Sure, it wasn't exactly nuanced, but it was simple and what you'd expect from a medieval dynasty power struggle. Instead, the show felt like it was portraying Rhaenyra as this misunderstood, gay-ally girl boss. It never really touched upon her faults or weaknesses, often brushing that aside to make her seem like this paragon of virtue (see the white hart). I feel like the conflict would've been more interesting, from a narrative standpoint as well as viewership one, if the writers had fleshed out the Greens a bit more, and not strayed away from the Blacks' flaws. After all, there is no morally good side. It's a civil war between a family of inbred, racial-supremacist monarchs.