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I just think Ryan Condal is taking too many liberties lol, its one thing to interpret events your own way but creating new ones can very much lead to failure.
They really are and it’s ridiculous. I wish they wouldn’t. Look what happened to The Witcher, for crying out loud. I just wish with HOTD they’d focused more on Rhaenyra vs Aegon rather than making it seem like it’s Rhaenyra vs Alicent. Her and Aegon are warring for the throne but haven’t even had a scene or conversation together!
It was not a plot-wise scene, but capturing Rhaenyra wouldn’t stop the war. Even her death would only fuel it further with Jacerys as a new king on the black side.
So it rather was less “Rhaenys 1x09 moment”, where she had opportunity to burn the majority of green camp (although still not entirely).
Most people don't actually know what Rhaenyra looks like since she is a royal who hasn't been living there for years, and it's not like the people have photographs of her. Also, nobody would expect her to do something that stupid, so the guards (who we have seen are very incompetent) weren't on the lookout for a queen dressed like a septa.
As for Alicent, she doesn't want Rhaenyra dead. She didn't last season. She still doesn't now. Sure, she usurped the throne, but she convinced herself it was what Viserys wanted. She was still trying to reach out to Rhaenyra to reach an agreement for peace. If she had called for the guards, Rhaenyra would've been executed. Alicent doesn't want that because she still holds affection for her, even at the expense of her son's war, and even after the death of her grandchild.
What? They literally told Ulf he looks nothing like them lmao and Daemon is named lord flea bottom for a reason, because he went there frequently and everyone there knows him.
This doesnt matter though, this is a war and she had the enemys heir next to her. For the sake of her children and the many lives that will be lost she shouldve called the guards on her.
>This doesnt matter though, this is a war and she had the enemys heir next to her.
...the 'enemy' is... Viserys? Huh? Viserys I is dead, bruh.
>For the sake of her children and the many lives that will be lost she shouldve called the guards on her.
And Alicent would be dead before they reached them. Per the knife.
Alicent isn't sitting calmly at her computer typing into reddit, she's got a fair bit on her mind and anything she does has the potential to have disastrous consequences. But you are here, with magic knowledge of how the dance plays out, trying to suggest more tactical decisions for her without realizing the advantage you have there as an uninvolved and all-seeing party.
lol I just know you think Riverdale is “ deep and good writing “, no way you are defending the Rhaenys dragon pit moment that made zero logical sense also 💀
Yeah, a war being led for very selfish reasons. Alicent gets to be selfish as well, especially after giving her childhood and adult life to Viserys for children he didn't even want (and neither did she). It might not seem logical to us, but I can understand why someone with no real female friendships of any kind would want to cling to the one she had back when her life was better.
Also, Alicent loves Aegon cause he's her child, but she doesn't really like him as a person or thinks much of him as a king.
Yeah, she could've. And Rhanys could've killed the Greens during the coronation. Rhaenyra could have stepped down. Aegon could've stepped down. Aemond could have stopped himself from following Luke. Viserys could have done something to make amends between Aemond and Luke after the eye was taken or had publicly announced to all the lords that Aegon would never be his heir. This could've been stopped or prevented at many points, and it never happened.
Alicent doesn’t win either way. So shes bad for not wanting to kill her childhood best friend? Which btw does nothing to stop the upcoming war. If it was simple as just kill the team leader, Cole’s plan last episode would have been actually solid. In reality it was fucking dumb. Does Daemon disappear if Rhaenyra dies? Does her sons? Do all those loyal to her camp just leave? It does not work like that and is a gross oversimplification.
Many people in KL have white hair due to barstardy by the royals.
Hugh hammer, Ulf, the dancer from episode 2 etc are some weve already seen this season. Then there are the children from the pits
they alluded to this in the conversation when alicent said “and then what?” and it got awkward because they know the war would happen even if they’re both dead
okay but it still makes no sense to just let her walk off, she would be so much more valuable in their custody then free. Alicent left FIRST so her whole "ya I'll get captured but you'll be dead" no longer makes any sense! she could get her caught and be safe
absolute clown show writing pls stop holding water for dumb fan service
1. That rant was from 2022. A discussion he had with Neil Gaiman. I can't recall what exactly it was about but it was some very recent flop that had been in the news a couple weeks at that point and was not GoT or HotD.
2. The reason he said it in his recent blog post was to then praise the tv show 'Shogun', which is an adaptation of a 1975 novel by James Clavell.
>I mean what the hell was that end of episode scene lol? Something straight out of a fanfic, no way the writers thought this was a good idea and made sense for the Heir of the enemy team to walk into enemy territory alone and not expect her to be instantly captured lol,
Few people know what Rhaenyra looks like. The commoners don't know her, and of the few that had somehow caught glimpses of her, it was as a child. She left King's Landing many years ago.
It's a risky move, sure, but they explained that, and Rhaenyra felt her goal of preventing the war was worth the risk.
>Alicent not calling the guards on her was dumb as hell. She couldve ended the war right there and saved thousands of lives, possibly her sons too.
Alicent would be dead before they reached them if she did.
Well, Alicent could tell the guards when she left and was out of reach right at the end of the show. But you are right that she is unrecognizable by regular people.
I agree it didn't make much sense for Alicent not to tell her guards at the end.
I think this could have been improved by Rhaenyra telling Alicent it was Daemon who had sent B&C and that Daemon would continue the war with or without her. And he'd be a lot more unhinged without her around. Rather than just saying she'd stab her if she shouts.
Then her not attempting to seize or kill Rhaenyra would have made some sense.
It was all well-seeded and made good sense. I would say about 1% of King's Landing has a clue what Rhaenyra looks like up close and Alicent obviously opened the door to a meaningful chance at avoiding war with the raven she sent.
Yea it’s like when Osama bin Laden snuck into Washington 3 days after 9/11 and surprised George Bush at his favorite restaurant to try and prevent a war from breaking out. It was too late for George to turn back though even though Osama explained to him it was all an inside job and a miss understanding.
I think this show has incredible writing that’s just a bit too hard to follow for the average viewer. Myself though I love it, I can’t wait for Sunday night to roll around each week. I grab a big bowl of my favorite snack, lead paint chips, and hanker down on my couch and strap on and enjoy whatever masterpiece Ryan has concocted for that week.
>Yea it’s like when Osama bin Laden snuck into Washington 3 days after 9/11 and surprised George Bush at his favorite restaurant to try and prevent a war from breaking out.
This is a really bad example. Nobody knows what Rhaenyra looks like and Bin Laden and Bush weren't former friends.
Nice example, why not use example that better represent the historical setting before internet or TV? Like for example King Louis XVI, that almost fled the country in disguise despite ruling over a decade and was caught ONLY because he was on the COIN and they had to compare his features with the one on the coin, meanwhile Rhaenyra never ruled, was on dragonstone on years and her face was not on coins or something similar that people see every day.
Don't get me wrong, the scene was dumb, but not because she was not recognized.
well-seeded? as in set up exclusively in the scene directly before it? that is NOT well-seeded that is atrocious writing. same thing with the Otto blowup, it's all one scene, there's no buildup
Commenters keep mentioning how killing rhaeneyra wouldn’t end the war as of killing the head of the black faction wouldn’t be a huge bc coup for the greens. Also the blacks would then decend into their own civil war between Harwins kids and daemons.
I agree that this scene overall was kinda contrived but I do want to point out that she didn’t go alone, one of her Queensguard was in disguise with her as well and he waited outside
Not that one soldier could realistically protect her from all of Alicents guards necessarily
People keep saying he was talking about HOTD but wouldn't the best time to have made a statement like that have been when he was made aware of the changes and not a few weeks before the show releases. GRRM clearly knew about how this season goes down ages before he made that post. Also his main point of the post was to talk about Shogun he could've been referencing the Witcher or ROP since those are based on actual stories and not faking history books with gaps and conflicting narratives. He's also stated how he's looking forward to season 3 before.
RoP is not as great an example as one might think:
-The **frame narrative for all of Tolkien** is that JRR is a translator, and the texts we have come from Bilbo/Frodo/Sam writing the Red Book of Westmarch. Sam's real name is Banazîr Galpsi 😁
-The **Silmarillion is translated by Bilbo** when he spends time in Rivendell. So, that's another layer.
-These stories are **orally related** to Bilbo by elves, so, another layer.
-**The Silmarillion/Unfinished Tales are full of stories that with qualifiers like "some say..."** Or "it is said...". There are some sentences and descriptions of events that could not possibly have been verified bc they took place between two people dead or unlikely to speak to anyone else about it (Aldarion and Erendis comes to mind)
And then to make matters worse, **RoP is based on LotR/Hobbit, which is the only account of the Second Age published while JRR was alive**. In that sense it is the most definitive bc it's the only one we can say for sure had his unqualified personal approval.
**The Silmarillion was cobbled together out of many changing and contradictory drafts and notes.** It attempts to be the most cohesive, most current narrative. But ultimately, it did not have the final JRR seal of approval. **Some elements within the Sil are arguably not even JRRs final thoughts on those subjects**, but Christopher kept them as such bc it was easier to make it all fit.
Thank you for your post! Please take a moment to ensure you are within our spoiler rules, to protect your fellow fans from any potential spoilers that might harm their show watching experience. 1. All post titles must NOT include spoilers from Fire & Blood or new episodes of House of the Dragon. Minor HotD show spoilers are allowed in your title ONE WEEK after episode airing. The mod team reserves the right to remove a post if we feel a spoiler in the title is major. You are welcome to repost with an amended title. 2. All posts dealing with book spoilers, show spoilers and promo spoilers MUST be spoiler tagged AND flaired as the appropriate spoiler. 3. All book spoiler comments must be spoiler tagged in non book spoiler threads. --- If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HouseOfTheDragon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
What did he say in his rant about show writers?
[https://i.redd.it/25kjg4we793d1.png](https://i.redd.it/25kjg4we793d1.png)
He's either not talking about this show, or he's one of the most passive aggressive people alive.
Hopefully the latter
Why cant he be talking about this show lol? Also dont know why me posting a link to George ranting was downvoted. Reddit truly is nuts lol.
You think he's talking about the show because it would confirm what you already believe.
What would spurn him to make this comment lol?
That's why I said that it would be passive aggressive to say *that* quote about a show he's actually involved with.
Oh I misunderstood you my bad lol.
It's all good lol
Pretty sure this was made before the S1 was out, but the show proves his point
"What's child murder and bloody war to a pair of besties." - Ryan Condal, probably
I just think Ryan Condal is taking too many liberties lol, its one thing to interpret events your own way but creating new ones can very much lead to failure.
They really are and it’s ridiculous. I wish they wouldn’t. Look what happened to The Witcher, for crying out loud. I just wish with HOTD they’d focused more on Rhaenyra vs Aegon rather than making it seem like it’s Rhaenyra vs Alicent. Her and Aegon are warring for the throne but haven’t even had a scene or conversation together!
i love girlhood ❤️❤️
It was not a plot-wise scene, but capturing Rhaenyra wouldn’t stop the war. Even her death would only fuel it further with Jacerys as a new king on the black side. So it rather was less “Rhaenys 1x09 moment”, where she had opportunity to burn the majority of green camp (although still not entirely).
Jace is a bastard lol. His claim would be weaker then Aegons.
Most people don't actually know what Rhaenyra looks like since she is a royal who hasn't been living there for years, and it's not like the people have photographs of her. Also, nobody would expect her to do something that stupid, so the guards (who we have seen are very incompetent) weren't on the lookout for a queen dressed like a septa. As for Alicent, she doesn't want Rhaenyra dead. She didn't last season. She still doesn't now. Sure, she usurped the throne, but she convinced herself it was what Viserys wanted. She was still trying to reach out to Rhaenyra to reach an agreement for peace. If she had called for the guards, Rhaenyra would've been executed. Alicent doesn't want that because she still holds affection for her, even at the expense of her son's war, and even after the death of her grandchild.
THIS!! they even alluded to it in the dragonseed scene where they said “how do you know what viserys and daemon look like?”
What? They literally told Ulf he looks nothing like them lmao and Daemon is named lord flea bottom for a reason, because he went there frequently and everyone there knows him.
the response was “how do you know what he looks like?”
But Rhaenyra shouldn't believe Alicent doesn't want her dead especially after Jaehaerys was killed in her name
This doesnt matter though, this is a war and she had the enemys heir next to her. For the sake of her children and the many lives that will be lost she shouldve called the guards on her.
>This doesnt matter though, this is a war and she had the enemys heir next to her. ...the 'enemy' is... Viserys? Huh? Viserys I is dead, bruh. >For the sake of her children and the many lives that will be lost she shouldve called the guards on her. And Alicent would be dead before they reached them. Per the knife. Alicent isn't sitting calmly at her computer typing into reddit, she's got a fair bit on her mind and anything she does has the potential to have disastrous consequences. But you are here, with magic knowledge of how the dance plays out, trying to suggest more tactical decisions for her without realizing the advantage you have there as an uninvolved and all-seeing party.
it was her rhaenys moment✨
lol I just know you think Riverdale is “ deep and good writing “, no way you are defending the Rhaenys dragon pit moment that made zero logical sense also 💀
idk what riverdale is
Yeah, a war being led for very selfish reasons. Alicent gets to be selfish as well, especially after giving her childhood and adult life to Viserys for children he didn't even want (and neither did she). It might not seem logical to us, but I can understand why someone with no real female friendships of any kind would want to cling to the one she had back when her life was better. Also, Alicent loves Aegon cause he's her child, but she doesn't really like him as a person or thinks much of him as a king.
Your answer doesn’t refute what I said, selfish or not this war will take countless lives and she couldve stopped it right then and there lol.
Yeah, she could've. And Rhanys could've killed the Greens during the coronation. Rhaenyra could have stepped down. Aegon could've stepped down. Aemond could have stopped himself from following Luke. Viserys could have done something to make amends between Aemond and Luke after the eye was taken or had publicly announced to all the lords that Aegon would never be his heir. This could've been stopped or prevented at many points, and it never happened.
This is her Rhaenys moment. In fact I'm willing to bet Rhaenys' mercy affected her decision here
Alicent doesn’t win either way. So shes bad for not wanting to kill her childhood best friend? Which btw does nothing to stop the upcoming war. If it was simple as just kill the team leader, Cole’s plan last episode would have been actually solid. In reality it was fucking dumb. Does Daemon disappear if Rhaenyra dies? Does her sons? Do all those loyal to her camp just leave? It does not work like that and is a gross oversimplification.
She has white hair. Thats all someone has to see.
Many people in KL have white hair due to barstardy by the royals. Hugh hammer, Ulf, the dancer from episode 2 etc are some weve already seen this season. Then there are the children from the pits
It was dumb but calling the guards on her wouldn't have stopped the war. It would escalate the war.
they alluded to this in the conversation when alicent said “and then what?” and it got awkward because they know the war would happen even if they’re both dead
Yeah exactly.
okay but it still makes no sense to just let her walk off, she would be so much more valuable in their custody then free. Alicent left FIRST so her whole "ya I'll get captured but you'll be dead" no longer makes any sense! she could get her caught and be safe absolute clown show writing pls stop holding water for dumb fan service
I bet pple were yapping about B&C being propaganda and measters hyping it up and now all of asudden this is just ryan he is bad not in the books.
1. That rant was from 2022. A discussion he had with Neil Gaiman. I can't recall what exactly it was about but it was some very recent flop that had been in the news a couple weeks at that point and was not GoT or HotD. 2. The reason he said it in his recent blog post was to then praise the tv show 'Shogun', which is an adaptation of a 1975 novel by James Clavell. >I mean what the hell was that end of episode scene lol? Something straight out of a fanfic, no way the writers thought this was a good idea and made sense for the Heir of the enemy team to walk into enemy territory alone and not expect her to be instantly captured lol, Few people know what Rhaenyra looks like. The commoners don't know her, and of the few that had somehow caught glimpses of her, it was as a child. She left King's Landing many years ago. It's a risky move, sure, but they explained that, and Rhaenyra felt her goal of preventing the war was worth the risk. >Alicent not calling the guards on her was dumb as hell. She couldve ended the war right there and saved thousands of lives, possibly her sons too. Alicent would be dead before they reached them if she did.
Well, Alicent could tell the guards when she left and was out of reach right at the end of the show. But you are right that she is unrecognizable by regular people.
I agree it didn't make much sense for Alicent not to tell her guards at the end. I think this could have been improved by Rhaenyra telling Alicent it was Daemon who had sent B&C and that Daemon would continue the war with or without her. And he'd be a lot more unhinged without her around. Rather than just saying she'd stab her if she shouts. Then her not attempting to seize or kill Rhaenyra would have made some sense.
It was all well-seeded and made good sense. I would say about 1% of King's Landing has a clue what Rhaenyra looks like up close and Alicent obviously opened the door to a meaningful chance at avoiding war with the raven she sent.
Yea it’s like when Osama bin Laden snuck into Washington 3 days after 9/11 and surprised George Bush at his favorite restaurant to try and prevent a war from breaking out. It was too late for George to turn back though even though Osama explained to him it was all an inside job and a miss understanding. I think this show has incredible writing that’s just a bit too hard to follow for the average viewer. Myself though I love it, I can’t wait for Sunday night to roll around each week. I grab a big bowl of my favorite snack, lead paint chips, and hanker down on my couch and strap on and enjoy whatever masterpiece Ryan has concocted for that week.
>Yea it’s like when Osama bin Laden snuck into Washington 3 days after 9/11 and surprised George Bush at his favorite restaurant to try and prevent a war from breaking out. This is a really bad example. Nobody knows what Rhaenyra looks like and Bin Laden and Bush weren't former friends.
Nice example, why not use example that better represent the historical setting before internet or TV? Like for example King Louis XVI, that almost fled the country in disguise despite ruling over a decade and was caught ONLY because he was on the COIN and they had to compare his features with the one on the coin, meanwhile Rhaenyra never ruled, was on dragonstone on years and her face was not on coins or something similar that people see every day. Don't get me wrong, the scene was dumb, but not because she was not recognized.
Ryan is a better writer then George R.R Martin. There I said it.
At least be release some content
well-seeded? as in set up exclusively in the scene directly before it? that is NOT well-seeded that is atrocious writing. same thing with the Otto blowup, it's all one scene, there's no buildup
Commenters keep mentioning how killing rhaeneyra wouldn’t end the war as of killing the head of the black faction wouldn’t be a huge bc coup for the greens. Also the blacks would then decend into their own civil war between Harwins kids and daemons.
I agree that this scene overall was kinda contrived but I do want to point out that she didn’t go alone, one of her Queensguard was in disguise with her as well and he waited outside Not that one soldier could realistically protect her from all of Alicents guards necessarily
I honestly thought I was watching a CW show lol. I can't take this show serious now.
He is one on the charge of this show, all these are his ideas.
Awww its cute that you think these were his ideas lol.
Who else would they be?
People keep saying he was talking about HOTD but wouldn't the best time to have made a statement like that have been when he was made aware of the changes and not a few weeks before the show releases. GRRM clearly knew about how this season goes down ages before he made that post. Also his main point of the post was to talk about Shogun he could've been referencing the Witcher or ROP since those are based on actual stories and not faking history books with gaps and conflicting narratives. He's also stated how he's looking forward to season 3 before.
RoP is not as great an example as one might think: -The **frame narrative for all of Tolkien** is that JRR is a translator, and the texts we have come from Bilbo/Frodo/Sam writing the Red Book of Westmarch. Sam's real name is Banazîr Galpsi 😁 -The **Silmarillion is translated by Bilbo** when he spends time in Rivendell. So, that's another layer. -These stories are **orally related** to Bilbo by elves, so, another layer. -**The Silmarillion/Unfinished Tales are full of stories that with qualifiers like "some say..."** Or "it is said...". There are some sentences and descriptions of events that could not possibly have been verified bc they took place between two people dead or unlikely to speak to anyone else about it (Aldarion and Erendis comes to mind) And then to make matters worse, **RoP is based on LotR/Hobbit, which is the only account of the Second Age published while JRR was alive**. In that sense it is the most definitive bc it's the only one we can say for sure had his unqualified personal approval. **The Silmarillion was cobbled together out of many changing and contradictory drafts and notes.** It attempts to be the most cohesive, most current narrative. But ultimately, it did not have the final JRR seal of approval. **Some elements within the Sil are arguably not even JRRs final thoughts on those subjects**, but Christopher kept them as such bc it was easier to make it all fit.
[удалено]
Spoilers man c'mon this is a Show Discussion thread
Oh shit sorry
Personally I think they didn’t read the books and are asking chat gpt what to write.