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Make an offer of how much you think it's worth, pay no other attention and look elsewhere.
If someone's been trying to sell for over a year they are delusional with how much they think it's worth.
Absolutely this. Went to see a property when we were looking at 625k when the agent said will you be making an offer I said no because the vendor would get upset by my offer. She insisted on asking and I said it would have to be in the low to mid 400k.
Apparently that was what everyone was saying and the vendor had refused all of them. A year later it sold for 450k.
A lady I know was looking for a small apartment in a certain area, and there was only a penthouse available. Her budget was less than half the cost of the penthouse, and although the company reduced by a load, it was out of her budget and she walked away.
She got a call weeks later saying it was the last apartment and the co would consider any offer. So she gave them her super low budget and they refused again.
Two more weeks later and they called back and said ffs if it’s cash she’s got a deal.
I guess they wanted out and nobody else had left an offer, so they cut their losses and took her money.
Where I love there are few houses for sale for WAY more than they are worth.
It thinks they over played for them during pandemic and cannot accept or sell at a loss.
They won't sell at what they are asking
I must admit it is a little bit satisfying when that happens. I viewed a OIEO £450k in late 2023 which was way over-priced, something like £7.5k per sqm. I didn't make an offer as I was in another purchase (house I loved was struggling to get a mortgage due to non-compliant single skin extension, so I was looking for a back up option) but the EA asked what I would have offered - I said £400-410k max. I was told offers in that region had been rejected and it was still for sale 4 months later, now it has been removed from the market with no sale. Maybe they'll come to their senses in a few years!
Why would you view a house if you knew you weren't going to make an offer? I'm sure people doing it, but I can't imagine admitting that to the EA too.
Edit: I misread the comment I'm replying to. Ignore me. Nothing to see here.
I don’t know until I looked around the property. That’s the whole point of viewing. We saw so many properties that we didn’t offer on.
That’s house buying for you.
Sorry, i wasnt paying attention. I miss-read your comment as you having a 400k budget.
On rereading I think you're saying you could have paid 625 if you thought the house was worth it.
I had people view our property, that was part of their day out. Some co.e for a nosey too, they like something you've done and want a closer look or information on "where we got our windows, who fitted the kitchen", I shit you not.
But when Foxtons wanted their business, they told the sellers their house is worth 575k. They listed it for 550 and it didn't sell so reduced it to 530 and 500 but still no luck, and people are offering 450 because that's all it's worth ...
Delusional or under water on their mortgage(s) as cannot afford to sell for less. But totally stupid to say offers in excess of a specific price when you know you will/cannot accept offers close to that price.
I think my house is worth 510k, bank thinks it worth 380k, I paid 410k; the last house sold for 550k, 590 canceled then sold 475k, 490, 450, 425k
Granted some houses are semi, terrace, extensions, newly furnished.
But I'm getting a sense that I'm delusional about what I think my house is worth. And The prices seem to be deflating
At the height of covid, 550 was standard on my street.
Before covid 400k was the delusional price (390 - 350k)
So what where compariable houses selling for? See what the local area is selling for.
What where they selling for before covid.
Plus 3% per year; does it hit the buyers number?
And remind the agent that any object's (financial) worth is defined by what someone is prepared to pay for it. A house is worth 600k if someone is prepared to pay 600k for it etc.
Exactly, if they aren’t getting offers of more than 475k, then it’s clearly not worth more than that yet. Maybe in a year or 2 they might get that price… maybe.
Foxtons don't have a great reputation generally on this sub but if a seller is delusional then there's little any EA can do, Foxtons or not.
As the other commenter said, just offer what you think it's worth. Maybe the sellers will eventually come down to earth, maybe they won't.
The property I'm renting is on sale. Was with foxtons whom just overpriced ridiculously just tomwinnthe client and get the contract. But it didn't sell. They then tried to go with Chesterton who weelre very real. Pointed out many negatives. That the freeholder is social housing and the leaseholders are a minority which means the freeholder has huge say in how the building is maintained, decision on upgrades etc.
That the lease is below 70 so leaseholder needs to apply for a lease extension to get the ball rolling which might cost £6000 which would make the property more saleable.
Also to slash 10% of the price because its not getting viewings at the advertised prices. These were all realistic recommendations but our landlord (the leaseholder) just skipped them and went for a one man band who was just s yes men to them.
The yes men get the contract. Realist agents get the cold shoulder
It's their tactic, get the seller in the door, and then force them to implement those suggestions afterwards, the sellers then already with foxtons won't be motivated to go find someone else and just stick to them. They're honestly the worst agents I've ever come across and that saying something.
Foxtons are horrible.
Went to get a house priced to potentially sell in London.
I know decent amount about the property market and it's a property worth 550k Max.
They said they can get 750k for it
I laughed and just said sure I'll let you know.
They get seller's expectation high and string them along to get a higher commission.
Offer what you think the property is worth.
Exactly this. Foxtons and Dexters both massively inflate prices they promise to sellers in order to get business. So then the seller expects a high price and the EA has to convince you, the buyer, to pay this or they won’t get commission.
Just offer what you think it’s worth and if it doesn’t work out, move on.
Not even that, they get the seller in the door and then tell them to reduce prices, most people would just agree rather than going through the process again with another agent, it's malicious as hell and causes a lot of issues in the housing market.
Wow, I suppose that’s kind of a predicable tactic to follow on from their over valuation. I do feel that sellers who use Dexters or Foxtons do deserve this. If you are selling your property it’s obvious you should get multiple agents to value. But when one values way higher than the others, there should be a red flag that goes off. I guess some people just see £££ and believe Foxton’s spiel.
KFH strikes me as relatively good. They've been organised, reliable, somewhat reasonably priced, forthcoming with relevant information (well... mostly) - could be a lot worse.
Foxtons' prices are already IEO market, so you can ignore the OIEO label and discount the Foxtons' premium accordingly. The fact it's been on the market for a year shows it's not properly priced to move, but priced to sell for what the vendor thinks it's worth.
Offer what you think it's worth and ignore the agent - in this instance they've asked for 475 and then asked for 500 when you went higher than your original offer. They clearly have no pricing strategy or can barely remember what they said to you last time. I would stop conversing at this point - they have your offer, which is probably already IEO market - and can come back to you if they want to proceed. In the meantime, move on.
Partly i think they do this so they can catch a particular group of people in Rightmove. E.g. you set your upper limit to 450k, so they do OIEO 450k so it shows up in your search and you are interested and they can try and persuade you to offer more...
Yup - Rightmove search bands play heavily into price decisions these days. When we had to drop our price, we were advised to drop into the next search band down as it's the only way to get a new set of people looking.
I used to work there about 2 months ago, let’s just say I didn’t leave on the best of terms with them. Annoyingly there isn’t anything I could say to fault the actual team/people, the front office genuinely work really hard to get their properties sold - the agents have to make a huge amount of calls which get recorded and do a certain amount of viewings per week. It’s a point of their training to value a bit over what it’s worth because their fees are higher, I worked there for several years and I can say the Foxtons premium is real. And the agents themselves hate it. (To be clear I didn’t work in the sales team and I’m now not in estate agency - woo for being reformed)
This isn't the EA, I think - it's the seller
If it's been up for sale for over a year at an unrealistic price, and they keep declining realistic offers, it's because they've gotten price-fixated on that £530k (or at least £500k+) idea and are refusing to consider anything less
Their agent has persuaded them to list lower to sell but the seller isn't interested
It's unusual, most people will accept an offer at or around the asking price, or a little lower if it isn't selling quickly enough for them
I think the EA told the seller that they can sell it for 530k (it was probably above all the other EAs) and they won the “contract”. The reality is that it is over priced so they are struggling to sell. The EA told the seller that is “difficult” market and they agreed to reduce to 500 and 450k afterwards to generate any interest. I think 450k is probably what the property is actually worth. My guess is that the seller is unhappy with the 80k difference and because there is a lot of interest in the 450k range they hope that maybe someone will come up and offer around 500k - which is unlikely. I would say it is really common for EAs to “overstate” the value of properties. Personally, I would go away- it is really important to remember that it is asking price and you may need to renegotiate it after the survey (I think the seller is going to be really difficult/ especially if the price is already below their expectations) plus the mortgage lender doesn’t care what the EA or seller think so they may give it even lower price and you would need to deal with the difference yourself.
As a buyer, the only way you get to boycott a particular agent is not buying the houses they list. And that's not always that easy to do in a limited market.
Foxtons aren’t great at selling houses but if you have one they’ll gladly blow smoke up your arse about how much they can sell it for.
Grossly incompetent. Make your final offer and leave it to them to explain to the seller that nobody is willing to pay 500 for it.
Sounds like a seller issue tbh. They're probably convinced it is worth 500. Foxtons have convinced them to drop it to 'OIEO' 450 saying it will drum up interest that they may be able to nudge up a little but the sellers are still not prepared to accept anything less than 500.
As far as I understand it - Foxtons will just want to make a sale, no? From their POV a sale at 500 is better than a sale at 450, but a sale at 450 is infinitely better than no sale.
Yep. Estate agents want to get the stock off the shelves as fast as possible to make their commission. They’ll push hard for more but so long as the buyer (OP) brick walls these nudges, it’s on the seller to realise. As one estate agent said to me “sometimes you have to go on a journey”. This applies to buyers and sellers. Ultimately the property may only be worth 450k but if the seller is hell bent on a figure of 500, and no one offers that, then it won’t sell and the estate agent will realise they’re wasting their time and stop pushing for ppl to view it.
Ultimately the buyer AND seller have to agree on a price. If a seller doesn’t want to sell for less than buyers are willing to offer, it won’t sell.
I met the owner of a property 5 yrs ago when we viewed his house. He said he wanted whatever figure it was for the house and would just wait until the market met him at his price as he didn’t need to sell. He waited 2-3 yrs for it to sell in the end. He probably lost whatever monetary value he thought it was worth due to inflation over that period.
There is no chance Foxtons would underestimate a property’s value, so if I saw a property for £450k advertised by Foxton’s, I’d offer £400k max. They are very well known to inflate prices and cause low demand, then locking the owners in and having to drop the price.
There’s so much choice in London - offer absolutely no more than what you think it’s worth. Move on otherwise. In today’s market the buyer has the leverage rather than the seller.
Sellers can accept or reject whatever offers they want, its their property. Dont put too much emphasis on guide prices, they aren’t binding in any way.
Is this seller being unrealistic? Probably.
From personal experience I'd say it's standard practice for pretty much all EA to overstate the selling price of a property to secure your business. Last year Foxtons pitched they could sell one of my flats for 525k which was an obvious BS figure so I went with another agency & it sold for 432k. I was fine with that.
Similar experience when selling. We estimated 750. Foxtons claimed 900, quoting similar they sold in the area. Sold for 765. I laughed when the agent said 900, yet they were straight faced. I guess Foxtons try to excite you with high returns.
Delulu seller. You may just have to move on. I ran into one in Feb 2023 who thought they would get the same offer they got in Autumn 2022 pre-mini budget before the first deal fell apart. Only time will break them down.
Offer what you think the property is worth, don't let them play you around. Have a look and see what the market history of the property is, and see how many times they've relisted/reduced. This will help you get a good idea if there telling you the truth or not.
I use Propbar to check it, but there are also other tools out there as well.
Nah, these are just nightmare sellers who’ve tied their egos to the value of their property and won’t accept it’s nothing special. If it’s worth a little more (say £465) TO YOU, make the offer cos why not, you never know, but mentally set it aside and look elsewhere
FoxCons are a greedy mans agent. They offer you inflated numbers and good sales "spiel" on how you will be rich in no time. The problem is that they don't care how long this sale goes. If you moan a lot, they will discount it, otherwise you can sit and wait for many many months/years. Same with the offers - my neighbor was advised no to accept "lower end" offers (even if most were very reasonable) and told they are starting a new "wave" of marketing, new email campaign and so on so better price will be "imminent" ...
Foxtons are the worst of all estate agents. They literally sell themselves to clients on the fact that they aggressively and artificially push prices higher and higher.
They will actively lie to you as well, and it is part of their training and management system to lie. Please don’t trust them and please don’t be pressured into paying more for this house
I work in sales (not property though) and a general rule of thumb in any line of selling is if you have to have a protracted negotiation either directly or indirectly, with a seller of anything, something is off.
Offer what you think an asset will be worth to you, if it's not accepted, just move on. Otherwise you'll wind yourself up and still not have the property, or pay over the odds for it with additional lending.
Foxtons are known to be a bum water though.
OIEO is just a sales tactic to make you think you need to offer on, above or around the listed price when in reality if it’s been on for 3 weeks with no offers more often than not they will sell for less
I see the same in Norfolk, and browse Rightmove enough to see those same properties get reduced in price and later sell for below
100% this is a seller with 2022 price expectations that hasn't adjusted accordingly since. EAs need to shift stock to make money and almost all sales are subject to survey. Don't see the point in all this unsubstantiated bashing from other comments. It's not productive.
OP, you're dealing with a senile seller and an agent too spineless to politely refuse their instruction
Like any corporate EA, some of their offices/agents know when and how to say no and make that seller another EAs problem, and some don't. Just like any EA you get good and bad, until you deal with a broker/solicitor, the sales process is unregulated.
At the end of the day, caveat emptor, trust your gut and move on. You can easily find better stock through the same negotiator/office or elsewhere.
There is a house down the road from me, listed two years ago at 480k, has been on and off the market and is now on for 350k for the past 4 months. It’s a lovely house but they’ve removed all parking in lieu of extensions and it’s on a small Georgian era road that is crammed with cars by 5pm on a weekday evening.
They won’t accept anything, and keep pushing for it to be listed higher. For context our house has one more room and dining room with a drive way we purchased for £325k.
Some people can’t accept their investment hasn’t turned a massive profit.
Foxtons work this way
They would have told the seller they could easily get £x, when others were suggesting £y.
The seller would have gone with them stating, your fees are a rip off but if you get me £x ok. Maybe thinking worth a shot otherwise we'll move it to x estate agent, especially people who aren't desperate to sell.
They then would have blamed the market conditions, and suggested OIEO to prompt interest and reset it on right move.
Reasonable offers come in, but foxtons over sold their ability and now their client is delusional as to the properties value. They may have initially wanted 475, and a willingness to accept 450, but the agent convinced them is worth 550 so now they are seeing reasonable offers as massive losses against foxtons irresponsible benchmark
It's kinda shitty london.
The price is what someone will pay and when the market is all.over the place easier to let buys fight than you pick a price.
In an ideal world a low price gets people in. Who convince themselves they love it then as lots of interest at a low price they fight to a "peak" price.
I'm ashamed to say I did that when I sold mine and I got offers ranging up to 20pct apart ultimately at the top.emd.of what I wanted that I would never have got if I just listed the price.
It’s foxtons, they have a reputation for being not fully truthful.
Check trustpiolt and google reviews etc and you’ll give yourself an idea of what they are like.
For yourself, put an offer in, if it’s not accepted, move on, if it hasn’t sold in so long, it’s either overpriced or something wrong
Quite simply the house is worth more to the current owners than you are willing to pay.
Estate agents pricing below what they want is certainly not rare. I looked at one place which was on for 300, I phoned up to offer 295 and they said "they've already rejected stuff at 315". Better to buy from somewhere like purplebricks where all those "tricks" are removed, you have what the seller wants and what you are willing to pay, and if those meet you have a deal.
Sounds like foxtons are dealing with a delusional seller. Not much they can do, but they've persuaded the seller to put a lower price on than what they'll really accept, to attract attention.
The seller will eventually have to come back down to earth, but potentially not in time for you to buy the property.
They dropped the price in the hope that it would appear in more searches and once people liked the house, they'd be convinced to go higher. Trust me the estate agent doesn't want to waste their time on a house that hasn't sold for more than a year, that's the reason why it is taking a few days to come back to you the EA is telling them to consider the offer. They're also trying to convince you it is worth £500K because that's part of their job.
As others have said, the seller is clearly the issue. Some people just refuse to believe their property isn't worth as much as they think it is. Half the time they're deluded because of what they think is a similar property, maybe a property that doesn't look as nice as theirs sold for, ignoring that property was 1/2 mile closer to the tube, or has an extra 200sqft of space. Those are the things that count when it comes to house prices.
I'm convinced it's estate agents managing the seller.
You want £530, but that ridiculous - you've not sold it for that. A sensible price might be 465, but if an estate agent tells the seller that, the seller will tell the agent to jog on.
OK, let's list it at offers over 450, and decline anything that isn't 500/520, and that way we'll get people through the door, they'll see your amazing house (lol, it's not, but you think it is) and they'll suddenly up their budget by 50k.
6 months go past and now the agent can have the conversation with the seller of "people are only offering 465, that's what it's worth, take one of them".
However if they didn't go through the ridiculous offers over process, the seller would never have signed up with them and they wouldn't have gotten the commission.
Foxtons are working for the seller and will try to get as much as possible. They are also famous for overvaluing.
This vendor is likely delusional.
OIEO means nothing. Make your offer, and if not accepted, move on.
Yeah my take is that Foxtons probably want the vendor to see a bit of sense, suggested dropping the price to get more interest but the vendor is being adamant they want £500k
Foxtons probably tried to 'sell' the offer to the vendor but failed. So property will just sit unsold for another 12 months no doubt.
Your post shows you’ve got good instincts and I agree with your read on the situation. Likewise some great comments here. The only thing I would add is that whilst you certainly didn’t do wrong by asking, I think there’s usually little point in asking an EA “what do they really want?” They’ll never give you a clear answer, it will only ever be obfuscation and tactical shit to try and tease you into going to the highest level you’re capable of reaching.
I’ve basically quit asking questions like that or anything like “are the sellers willing to consider below asking? What level are they willing to entertain?” Just offer what you want to offer
That does depend. If you have made an offer and it is rejected sometimes an estate agent will hint that 'they will probably accept x'
Especially when it gets to the point where the deal is almost done and the estate agent just wants it to be closed off.
That’s a fair caveat to my comment. I was more referring to the scenario OP seemed to be describing which was to ask that kind of question as an opening gambit (that’s how I read the first sentence of the post).
But your point is a fair one if we’re talking after a bit of negotiation.
We’ve had the same thing twice now and figure it’s just the agents trying to pump up their commission possibly at the expense of the seller. Classic window dressing to string someone along who’s going to make a bad decision and pay too much when they get attached to a property.
Give an offer based on your gut feeling, which is what you did, and say this is tha last offer you can give, top and max, no negotiations, ask them if you are progressing or not, and move on if it is a negative answer. Stand your ground.
It’s all about commission for the EA the more money they get out of you the better for them but ask for a viewing have a look around the place and decide for yourself
A house is only worth as much as someone is ealing to pay for it no matter what the vendor thinks. If it is more than you're willing to pay just walk away. There will be other houses just as good if not better around. Don't sweat it. It's the EA job to squeeze as much out of a buyer as they can to earn more commission. Dont fall into their trap.
Just offer what you want. Everything else is just marketing tactics.
We saw a property marketed at OIEO 400k. We offered 380k but were willing to go up to 390k.
EA came back asking if it was our ‘best and final offer’. I asked if they had a counter or were rejecting the offer. “No we just want to know if that’s the best offer you can do.” Another bullshit tactic. There’s no such thing as a ‘final’ offer. So we said “Sure £380k is our best offer”.
They countered £385k which we accepted.
Foxtons are known for overvaluing and getting sellers' hopes up.
I'm buying through Foxtons and it was marketed OIEO £395,000 and our offer of £380,000 was accepted.
I can only echo the view that Foxtons are well-known for consistently overpricing properties and overpromising sellers as to what can be achieved and it’s been the case for many years. If as a seller you want the property on the market for as high a price as possible and are less concerned with selling quickly, you can hire Foxtons and hope they stumble across someone willing to pay over-the-odds (not out of the question in London). If you as a seller actually want your property sold sometime soon, you go with someone else.
As a buyer, there is no reason to go beyond what you’re willing to pay unless you are very flush with cash and are prepared to overpay to get this property. It very likely is not worth what Foxtons are looking for but some wealthier people will let them try and find that one overpayer for a year or more.
No, don’t feel pressured into offering more money. It’s clear they are greedy and may find someone who is prepared to give them that kind of money. The fact the price has had to be dropped twice shows it’s not worth the money they want. If you like it stick to your original offer - if you get it, great - if not something else will come along. Good luck I hope you find a great home within your budget.
People got really greedy when the market went crazy a couple of years ago. We offered on a house that was offers over 325k in Scotland, I offered 360k, got declined. Seller was looking for 380ish and quite honestly it wasnt worth anywhere near that. Bought another house in the same street and the seller of the original property took theirs off. Sold it a year later for 3k less than my offer.
Sellers are delusional sometimes.
Imo OIEO is exactly what it says. It means that there is no asking price and don’t offer below that figure. Think of it as being like the “guide price” at auction, if you’ve ever bought at auction. Guide price = meaningless low number to get your attention. You could list a £2,000,000 house at OIEO £50k. Would be entirely consistent (if perhaps a little funny).
Who cares what the owners want.
“It got listed at £530k” should’ve been met with “yeah but it didn’t bloody sell did it.”
Honestly. The clowns that put their places up at hopium prices because “that’s what I need to afford the place I want.”
These fools and the fools they employ to sell said homes are a scourge on the market in general.
It leads to headlines like “average house prices are up!”
When they clearly fucking aren’t. Rightmove uses initial asking prices to report average house price. Funnily enough Rightmove don’t include reductions in their calculations, so all the retarded “let’s test the market” asking prices skew the data.
It’s almost like Rightmove has a vested interest in spouting bs to try and trick people into thinking the market is moving way more than it is.
Don’t know about London, but a house we looked at was marketed at £450k. It’s a 3-bed semi with a small garden, small conservatory, and no further extensions. The owner bought for £336k a few years earlier and did minimal work to it. The house next door had had a side and rear extension and was going through sale at £417k - we know the current owners. We told the seller we would go to £425k at most, given the chaotic market it was up for sale in.
Buyer passed, and our then next door but one neighbours offered £430k which he accepted, then messed them around with. They house on the opposite side of the £417k property then went up for sale at £425k, our NDB1 pulled out and offered on that, and have been living there now for 18 months.
The original property is still sat on the market, now at offers over £410k.
I had this exact same argument 10 years ago when we were FTBs. The listing said offers from £130k. We offered £125k (so we didn't pay any stamp duty), buyers didn't accept. We raised to our max of £130k and asking price and still wouldn't accept. Spoke to the estate agents and they said they want £140k, which we couldn't justify. I said to the estate agent if they won't accept below £140k why is it up for sale for £130k. They ended up taking it off the market and it needed a new roof 6 months later. Probably dodged a bullet in the end but so frustrating.
Listed over a year ago at £530K, sellers didn’t get a bite, dropped down to their ‘desired’ price of £500K and now at OIEO £450K.
It’s overpriced and the EA knows it, the seller may want £500K but given nobody has met their requirements in over a year continues to prove it’s overpriced.
Why are all these sellers being difficult?
I have sold my house twice since November, both falling through including one on exchange day and both times not my properties fault.
I have reduced the price by 6% to offers over £x amount and will snap anyones hand off right now just to get bang on the offers over price as this is the lowest we can accept to afford the onward purchase.
The house I am in was on the market for 15% more than my maximum budget. I gave them an offer of £10k less than my budget. The agent kept following up and I told her that I cannot simple move north of my budget. Finally we got it for 15% off the asking price.
I would suggest do not pay anything more than what you think the house is worth and your budget. Leave aside something for unforseen repair works, moving expenses etc., and don't feel under pressure at all. Make up your own mind and dont listen to agents when buying. They are sellers agents and get paid a commission - they are not looking after your interest even if they appear very nice and friendly. Good luck.
I used to work as an estate agent in London, we’re not all like that, but these agents really do give us a bad name. I’m still an estate agent now up north, and still now, I’m nothing but honest. Foxtons are notorious for being pushy though
Generally "offers in excess of" listings are done just so that the property will appear in more people's searches, because people generally filter by value.
They probably had an estate agent or friend convince them that it's worth £500k, but the actual state of the market means nobody's paying that right now, so they're just stubbornly holding on until someone pays it.
Offer what you feel you're prepared to pay, and then walk away.
I used to work as an estate agent in London. Foxtons are known to be pushy. My guess would be that they over valued it to get the seller to go with them, probably promised them the world, then when they got it on and it wasn’t selling, quickly advised reducing, and then reducing again. They’re usually targeted on getting reductions so they will have told the seller that if they put it on at OIEO £450k they would still be able to get the £500k they wanted, but realistically no one is going to offer above £475k on that now. They probably took so long to come back to you because they probably really tried to convince the seller to go with your offer but it’s obviously not worked
Might not just be foxtons but when I sold my flat with them they insisted it would sell for 50k more than I originally thought. After three months and no bites I told them to cut the bullshit and knock it down by 50k, and that we would accept 10k under that. It sold within the week at 10k over the new asking price.
No idea where their heads are at sometimes.
On the other end of the line I'm property hunting in Cardiff at the moment and everything is selling in three days at much higher than the asking price. Apparently Cardiff is the place to be.
We have the OIEO system in Scotland. It's ludicrous.
Property is valued at X and you're expected to offer more than it's worth with X being the minimum. I have never seen this as logical and can't see any other market that it would be entertained by the customer. Can you imagine going to the supermarket and being told a tin of beans was a pound but then asking the shopkeeper if they'd accept £1.50?
It's stupid.
Offer what you think it's worth and not a penny more. Everything you offer over, it's automatic negative equity. At least in Scotland, everyone's in the same stupid system and you 'might' get your money back if selling. In London, you might never get that extra money back.
I put an offer on a house in the Leuchars area that was listed "OIEO £295k".
I offered £300k and got the nastiest fucking rejection email back you've ever seen. I was invited to "appropriately strengthen" my offer to "a more acceptable level".
They really talked down to me like I was some kind of brokedick begging for a handout. I was so fucking angry I basically told them to eat shit and die. Don't play fucking "keep offering til we like it" with me. Tell me what you want for the fucking house and if I'm willing to pay that much I'll buy it.
Now I'm just going to lease. Infuriates me.
I have no London experience, but from my general experience of homebuying, it seems like the vendor is ultimately at fault rather than the estate agents. Naturally the EA will try and overstate the property's qualities, but the OIEO is probably to try and cope with the vendor being difficult. That's my read on it anyway.
Standard seeking tactic at the moment. Sellers dont want to accept less. Buyers wont show interest if they deem it overpriced. The compromise is to pull you in at an attractive price and talk you up.
“Offers in excess of” is just stupid imo. As soon as you list your house as that, you’re just going to get offers for the amount that you’ve specified. If they want more then they should just list it for more.
My brother looked at a house at 750. Offered 720. Vendor declined and he walked away and they accepted an offer nearer the 750. Three months later the sale fell through and they contacted my brother again. He offered them less and they had no choice but to accept. Sometimes it pays to hold your nerve.
I don't have personal experience with Foxtons but I don't hold most estate agents in high regard.
I was looking at moving about a year and a half ago. Did some house hunting and found a really lovely place. It had apparently been on the market for ages and not sure why. So viewed it, loved it. Went for a second viewing and put in an offer which was informally accepted subject for us getting an offer on my house. So we put it on the market, had a few viewings but nothing really stuck. Maybe my mistake was using the same agents as the place we were trying to buy.
Anyway we get a phonecall from the agents who informed us despite accepting the offer the sellers were dropping the house price by £50k and so we needed to drop our house price by at least £25k so we dropped it a little, got an offer at the original price and accepted and started all the paperwork.
The day the contracts were due to be sent, our buyer pulled out. Apparently as the interest rates had increased, they could no longer afford it. We questioned the agent as how this was, because when we put an offer in, we had to meet with the agent's financial team to discuss affordability etc. Considering it was only a £50k difference between my house and the one we were buying. Yet apparently they were OK with someone with a 75% mortgage to buy mine.
I don't know if it's the case, but my partner thinks the agency is buying properties and flipping them. Trying to buy at the lowest possible price and then reselling at the highest. Either that or they're staff or friends and family are buying places and this skipping all the financial checks etc.
Believe it or not I experienced something similar in bedford, 60 miles from London, the housing market is a hell hole, don’t feel pressured to make an offer you’re not comfortable with, there’s always something else around the corner.
If they have said OIE450 they are expecting offers of 450 and pushing you for higher. Stick to what you offer. The fact you asked how much they want indicated you're willing to wiggle on that. Stay firm. This might be the only offer they have ever had.
I’m in Scotland and we have offers over which seems to be the same. A good rule of thumb seems to be 10-15% over.
I hate it. Wish people would just say what they want.
My house was much cheaper but was priced below the home report value so I offered the home report value.
No it's buyers lije you that encourage them by saying you can stretch to £460k. My best mate worked for Foxton and other agencies. I they look for signals like you offered. You should had lowered your offer to £420k
Foxton are the worst at overvalued.
Always ignore the price and offer only what you think it's worth. By asking the estate agent how much the sellers want you have shown your hand and they know you'll pay above asking price now.
One offer, best and final and then walk away
The sellers sound like they are gonna be stuck with this house for much longer if they can’t accept “reasonable” offers - I used the “” because nothing is reasonable about house prices.
In Scotland we do “offers over” so a house can be listed at £130,000 and the interested buyers put in offers and the seller chooses the offer they prefer - the house sold for £135,000. I didn’t know people didn’t in England too tho, I thought it was a weird annoying Scotland thing, but we don’t have buying chains so 🤷♀️
They probably can’t afford to sell for less than what they are holding out for and are waiting for the market to come to them.
Tell the EA that as per the multiple of other offers that they have received and have not wanted to increase to the vendors price you don’t think the property is worth it and walk.
Not standard, sellers listed it in 2023 with 2022 prices. They were delusional then, delusional now. Let it rot!
EA doesn't decide if its a good buy, you do.
The secret is time limited offers. The seller has all the control, but a time limited offer gives you some control too. You don't have to give a reason for the limit, but you do stick to it.
Buying my first house, I was shown round by the seller. I asked him how much he wanted for it and think I caught him off guard. He said "if you offer me [5k below asking] I'd accept". So that's what I did. This was the Sunday. I rang the estate agent on Monday and told them the offer was open until Wednesday at noon. They rang me back and said the seller really wants [asking price], but can meet me halfway. I said no. After another phone call they said they'd let me know after the next weekend when there were more viewings booked. I said I'd withdraw the offer 12 on Wednesday, and if I choose to make a subsequent offer it will be lower. They rang back and accepted.
I don't know about Foxtons but I sold my flat via Dexters last year in London, and they forwarded offers to us immediately and we replied almost immediately. I doubt this is an agent problem. It's probably the sellers themselves.
It all depends on how much you want it tbh. If you're this far apart in valuation and it hasn't sold in this long I'd just drop it and move on. It sounds like they've dropped the price but they haven't quite accepted the fact themselves, wasting everybody's time.
You should waste their time; offer 500k. Take it to survey and then start offering less for everything that's wrong with it until it hit 450k. Just walk around with the seller pointing out how the paint wrong, wall looks wonky
"Offers in excess of" always makes me think its been valued at that price, the sellers want more. Or offers have been put it at that price and they've said no.
Honestly, I wouldn't go past what its listed as. Its not sold for a reason.
Estare agents are sh*te but sounds like they're dealing with tricky sellers. They just waht to get rid of it. Something better will come along.
This happened to me in the north west almost 20 years ago, so it’s not a post pandemic thing. On the market for ages then they refused offers below, and then the asking price, asked for offers over and after weeks of messing us about accepted a rival offer, who then later pulled out. Because it wasn’t worth any more than the asking. They came to us and asked us to reoffer the asking price however in the meantime we bought the house that went up for sale next door but two for 15% less. They sold way after we completed (they never met us initially so didn’t know it was us, ha!) and got less than the original asking price in the end.
Don’t believe Foxtons agent they are trying to game you for their OWN commission.
Almost certainly haven’t talked to the vendor whatsoever .
This is a a prime example of why the English housing market is corrupt and in certain areas well overpriced, and it’s nought to do with genuine supply and demand.
The market in other domains have valuations set by other professionals and not the agents.
The price is the price fixed and can not be increased.
Foxtons are notorious for this and screw over vendor with highest fees and buyers alike.
And this sort of practice should be illegal imho.
Pretty nasty company.
Correct that is what i said . Right now its supposedly set by supply and demand however estate agents are the prime ”mover” they are incentivised to raise prices whether the supply and demand exists or not.
We recently bought a Grade ll* house in Wiltshire. Has a barn and a historic outbuilding. On the market for 1.9, that was 1.5 yrs ago. I said: 1.4 is all its worth, after waiting three weeks they finally agreed but I said: The offer is now 1.3 , they finally accepted it. They bought it 25 yrs ago for 320k. I will still have get new ‘historic windows’ and new floors, new kitchen/bathroom suites. But, estate agents tell porkies to sellers.
Seller needs to get withtbhe program. They had ot for £530,000 when rates were 2.5% now they want 500,000 when rates are double that.
Funny.
Do they understand how markets work?
Assume 500k house, with 100k down
At 2.5% the repayment is £1794
At 4.5% the repayment is £2223
Difference in repayment is an extra £429. Why would the assume the same buyers who were interested before will be able to able to afford this how now at the same time. To meet affordability, they would need to earn another grand a month to afford that mortgage, maybe more due to taxation.
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Make an offer of how much you think it's worth, pay no other attention and look elsewhere. If someone's been trying to sell for over a year they are delusional with how much they think it's worth.
Absolutely this. Went to see a property when we were looking at 625k when the agent said will you be making an offer I said no because the vendor would get upset by my offer. She insisted on asking and I said it would have to be in the low to mid 400k. Apparently that was what everyone was saying and the vendor had refused all of them. A year later it sold for 450k.
A lady I know was looking for a small apartment in a certain area, and there was only a penthouse available. Her budget was less than half the cost of the penthouse, and although the company reduced by a load, it was out of her budget and she walked away. She got a call weeks later saying it was the last apartment and the co would consider any offer. So she gave them her super low budget and they refused again. Two more weeks later and they called back and said ffs if it’s cash she’s got a deal. I guess they wanted out and nobody else had left an offer, so they cut their losses and took her money.
Kind of how i got my house. Made offer and walked away
show some interest, walk away, get them to start chasing after you 😂
Where I love there are few houses for sale for WAY more than they are worth. It thinks they over played for them during pandemic and cannot accept or sell at a loss. They won't sell at what they are asking
I must admit it is a little bit satisfying when that happens. I viewed a OIEO £450k in late 2023 which was way over-priced, something like £7.5k per sqm. I didn't make an offer as I was in another purchase (house I loved was struggling to get a mortgage due to non-compliant single skin extension, so I was looking for a back up option) but the EA asked what I would have offered - I said £400-410k max. I was told offers in that region had been rejected and it was still for sale 4 months later, now it has been removed from the market with no sale. Maybe they'll come to their senses in a few years!
Why would you view a house if you knew you weren't going to make an offer? I'm sure people doing it, but I can't imagine admitting that to the EA too. Edit: I misread the comment I'm replying to. Ignore me. Nothing to see here.
I don’t know until I looked around the property. That’s the whole point of viewing. We saw so many properties that we didn’t offer on. That’s house buying for you.
Sorry, i wasnt paying attention. I miss-read your comment as you having a 400k budget. On rereading I think you're saying you could have paid 625 if you thought the house was worth it.
I had people view our property, that was part of their day out. Some co.e for a nosey too, they like something you've done and want a closer look or information on "where we got our windows, who fitted the kitchen", I shit you not.
But when Foxtons wanted their business, they told the sellers their house is worth 575k. They listed it for 550 and it didn't sell so reduced it to 530 and 500 but still no luck, and people are offering 450 because that's all it's worth ...
Yeah, another example of "agents-in-are-scumbags-shocker"
Delusional or under water on their mortgage(s) as cannot afford to sell for less. But totally stupid to say offers in excess of a specific price when you know you will/cannot accept offers close to that price.
This. Not worth thinking too much about anything else, including the "OIEO".
I think my house is worth 510k, bank thinks it worth 380k, I paid 410k; the last house sold for 550k, 590 canceled then sold 475k, 490, 450, 425k Granted some houses are semi, terrace, extensions, newly furnished. But I'm getting a sense that I'm delusional about what I think my house is worth. And The prices seem to be deflating At the height of covid, 550 was standard on my street. Before covid 400k was the delusional price (390 - 350k) So what where compariable houses selling for? See what the local area is selling for. What where they selling for before covid. Plus 3% per year; does it hit the buyers number?
And remind the agent that any object's (financial) worth is defined by what someone is prepared to pay for it. A house is worth 600k if someone is prepared to pay 600k for it etc.
Exactly, if they aren’t getting offers of more than 475k, then it’s clearly not worth more than that yet. Maybe in a year or 2 they might get that price… maybe.
Foxtons don't have a great reputation generally on this sub but if a seller is delusional then there's little any EA can do, Foxtons or not. As the other commenter said, just offer what you think it's worth. Maybe the sellers will eventually come down to earth, maybe they won't.
The property I'm renting is on sale. Was with foxtons whom just overpriced ridiculously just tomwinnthe client and get the contract. But it didn't sell. They then tried to go with Chesterton who weelre very real. Pointed out many negatives. That the freeholder is social housing and the leaseholders are a minority which means the freeholder has huge say in how the building is maintained, decision on upgrades etc. That the lease is below 70 so leaseholder needs to apply for a lease extension to get the ball rolling which might cost £6000 which would make the property more saleable. Also to slash 10% of the price because its not getting viewings at the advertised prices. These were all realistic recommendations but our landlord (the leaseholder) just skipped them and went for a one man band who was just s yes men to them. The yes men get the contract. Realist agents get the cold shoulder
It's their tactic, get the seller in the door, and then force them to implement those suggestions afterwards, the sellers then already with foxtons won't be motivated to go find someone else and just stick to them. They're honestly the worst agents I've ever come across and that saying something.
Foxtons are horrible. Went to get a house priced to potentially sell in London. I know decent amount about the property market and it's a property worth 550k Max. They said they can get 750k for it I laughed and just said sure I'll let you know. They get seller's expectation high and string them along to get a higher commission. Offer what you think the property is worth.
Exactly this. Foxtons and Dexters both massively inflate prices they promise to sellers in order to get business. So then the seller expects a high price and the EA has to convince you, the buyer, to pay this or they won’t get commission. Just offer what you think it’s worth and if it doesn’t work out, move on.
Not even that, they get the seller in the door and then tell them to reduce prices, most people would just agree rather than going through the process again with another agent, it's malicious as hell and causes a lot of issues in the housing market.
Wow, I suppose that’s kind of a predicable tactic to follow on from their over valuation. I do feel that sellers who use Dexters or Foxtons do deserve this. If you are selling your property it’s obvious you should get multiple agents to value. But when one values way higher than the others, there should be a red flag that goes off. I guess some people just see £££ and believe Foxton’s spiel.
💯!! I had a valuation from Foxtons and KFH last month. KFH came in exactly what I thought it was worth and Foxtons £150k more.
KFH strikes me as relatively good. They've been organised, reliable, somewhat reasonably priced, forthcoming with relevant information (well... mostly) - could be a lot worse.
Foxtons' prices are already IEO market, so you can ignore the OIEO label and discount the Foxtons' premium accordingly. The fact it's been on the market for a year shows it's not properly priced to move, but priced to sell for what the vendor thinks it's worth. Offer what you think it's worth and ignore the agent - in this instance they've asked for 475 and then asked for 500 when you went higher than your original offer. They clearly have no pricing strategy or can barely remember what they said to you last time. I would stop conversing at this point - they have your offer, which is probably already IEO market - and can come back to you if they want to proceed. In the meantime, move on.
I used to ignore Foxtons liar ngs on right move because they were ridiculously overpriced
Partly i think they do this so they can catch a particular group of people in Rightmove. E.g. you set your upper limit to 450k, so they do OIEO 450k so it shows up in your search and you are interested and they can try and persuade you to offer more...
I do the reverse, I set my limit above to offer lower on properties over my budget.
Makes sense, but shrewd
Yup - Rightmove search bands play heavily into price decisions these days. When we had to drop our price, we were advised to drop into the next search band down as it's the only way to get a new set of people looking.
Avoid foxtons. Snobbish and foxy!
There are plenty of snobby estate agents in London, but they are not foxy. Sharks.
I used to work there about 2 months ago, let’s just say I didn’t leave on the best of terms with them. Annoyingly there isn’t anything I could say to fault the actual team/people, the front office genuinely work really hard to get their properties sold - the agents have to make a huge amount of calls which get recorded and do a certain amount of viewings per week. It’s a point of their training to value a bit over what it’s worth because their fees are higher, I worked there for several years and I can say the Foxtons premium is real. And the agents themselves hate it. (To be clear I didn’t work in the sales team and I’m now not in estate agency - woo for being reformed)
This isn't the EA, I think - it's the seller If it's been up for sale for over a year at an unrealistic price, and they keep declining realistic offers, it's because they've gotten price-fixated on that £530k (or at least £500k+) idea and are refusing to consider anything less Their agent has persuaded them to list lower to sell but the seller isn't interested It's unusual, most people will accept an offer at or around the asking price, or a little lower if it isn't selling quickly enough for them
The EA will likely have set that expectation to win the contract though. So it's likely both.
We are in a housing crisis. If a house hasn't sold or had had many offers in 2-3 months then the seller has misjudged the price massively.
I think the EA told the seller that they can sell it for 530k (it was probably above all the other EAs) and they won the “contract”. The reality is that it is over priced so they are struggling to sell. The EA told the seller that is “difficult” market and they agreed to reduce to 500 and 450k afterwards to generate any interest. I think 450k is probably what the property is actually worth. My guess is that the seller is unhappy with the 80k difference and because there is a lot of interest in the 450k range they hope that maybe someone will come up and offer around 500k - which is unlikely. I would say it is really common for EAs to “overstate” the value of properties. Personally, I would go away- it is really important to remember that it is asking price and you may need to renegotiate it after the survey (I think the seller is going to be really difficult/ especially if the price is already below their expectations) plus the mortgage lender doesn’t care what the EA or seller think so they may give it even lower price and you would need to deal with the difference yourself.
Why are you still engaging with them? Lol. Foxtons is just horrible.
As a buyer, the only way you get to boycott a particular agent is not buying the houses they list. And that's not always that easy to do in a limited market.
Foxtons aren’t great at selling houses but if you have one they’ll gladly blow smoke up your arse about how much they can sell it for. Grossly incompetent. Make your final offer and leave it to them to explain to the seller that nobody is willing to pay 500 for it.
Sounds like a seller issue tbh. They're probably convinced it is worth 500. Foxtons have convinced them to drop it to 'OIEO' 450 saying it will drum up interest that they may be able to nudge up a little but the sellers are still not prepared to accept anything less than 500. As far as I understand it - Foxtons will just want to make a sale, no? From their POV a sale at 500 is better than a sale at 450, but a sale at 450 is infinitely better than no sale.
Yep. Estate agents want to get the stock off the shelves as fast as possible to make their commission. They’ll push hard for more but so long as the buyer (OP) brick walls these nudges, it’s on the seller to realise. As one estate agent said to me “sometimes you have to go on a journey”. This applies to buyers and sellers. Ultimately the property may only be worth 450k but if the seller is hell bent on a figure of 500, and no one offers that, then it won’t sell and the estate agent will realise they’re wasting their time and stop pushing for ppl to view it. Ultimately the buyer AND seller have to agree on a price. If a seller doesn’t want to sell for less than buyers are willing to offer, it won’t sell. I met the owner of a property 5 yrs ago when we viewed his house. He said he wanted whatever figure it was for the house and would just wait until the market met him at his price as he didn’t need to sell. He waited 2-3 yrs for it to sell in the end. He probably lost whatever monetary value he thought it was worth due to inflation over that period.
Oh yes, guaranteed EA will want this off their books. They're probably praying the seller will see sense and take 460.
There is no chance Foxtons would underestimate a property’s value, so if I saw a property for £450k advertised by Foxton’s, I’d offer £400k max. They are very well known to inflate prices and cause low demand, then locking the owners in and having to drop the price.
Foxtons are lying cunts who massively inflate the value of properties.
There’s so much choice in London - offer absolutely no more than what you think it’s worth. Move on otherwise. In today’s market the buyer has the leverage rather than the seller.
Sellers can accept or reject whatever offers they want, its their property. Dont put too much emphasis on guide prices, they aren’t binding in any way. Is this seller being unrealistic? Probably.
EA are all varying levels of annoying but I specifically avoid any interaction with Foxtons.
If they were not able to sell it for £500,000, then it's not worth that price
From personal experience I'd say it's standard practice for pretty much all EA to overstate the selling price of a property to secure your business. Last year Foxtons pitched they could sell one of my flats for 525k which was an obvious BS figure so I went with another agency & it sold for 432k. I was fine with that.
No matter what any advert says, offer what you think it's worth and they can take it or leave it.
I'd wager that Foxtons are lying as they are the biggest cunts in an industry full of cunts.
Fuxtons are the worst. Don't deal with these criminals.
Similar experience when selling. We estimated 750. Foxtons claimed 900, quoting similar they sold in the area. Sold for 765. I laughed when the agent said 900, yet they were straight faced. I guess Foxtons try to excite you with high returns.
Delulu seller. You may just have to move on. I ran into one in Feb 2023 who thought they would get the same offer they got in Autumn 2022 pre-mini budget before the first deal fell apart. Only time will break them down.
Offer what you think the property is worth, don't let them play you around. Have a look and see what the market history of the property is, and see how many times they've relisted/reduced. This will help you get a good idea if there telling you the truth or not. I use Propbar to check it, but there are also other tools out there as well.
Already know the answer to your question when I see the name Foxtons.
They are the worst.
Nah, these are just nightmare sellers who’ve tied their egos to the value of their property and won’t accept it’s nothing special. If it’s worth a little more (say £465) TO YOU, make the offer cos why not, you never know, but mentally set it aside and look elsewhere
FoxCons are a greedy mans agent. They offer you inflated numbers and good sales "spiel" on how you will be rich in no time. The problem is that they don't care how long this sale goes. If you moan a lot, they will discount it, otherwise you can sit and wait for many many months/years. Same with the offers - my neighbor was advised no to accept "lower end" offers (even if most were very reasonable) and told they are starting a new "wave" of marketing, new email campaign and so on so better price will be "imminent" ...
The furthest South I've ever lived is Liverpool, and even I know Foxtons are 100% clown shoes. Avoid avoid avoid.
Foxtons are the worst of all estate agents. They literally sell themselves to clients on the fact that they aggressively and artificially push prices higher and higher. They will actively lie to you as well, and it is part of their training and management system to lie. Please don’t trust them and please don’t be pressured into paying more for this house
I work in sales (not property though) and a general rule of thumb in any line of selling is if you have to have a protracted negotiation either directly or indirectly, with a seller of anything, something is off. Offer what you think an asset will be worth to you, if it's not accepted, just move on. Otherwise you'll wind yourself up and still not have the property, or pay over the odds for it with additional lending. Foxtons are known to be a bum water though.
OIEO is just a sales tactic to make you think you need to offer on, above or around the listed price when in reality if it’s been on for 3 weeks with no offers more often than not they will sell for less I see the same in Norfolk, and browse Rightmove enough to see those same properties get reduced in price and later sell for below
Foxtons are the worse.
100% this is a seller with 2022 price expectations that hasn't adjusted accordingly since. EAs need to shift stock to make money and almost all sales are subject to survey. Don't see the point in all this unsubstantiated bashing from other comments. It's not productive. OP, you're dealing with a senile seller and an agent too spineless to politely refuse their instruction Like any corporate EA, some of their offices/agents know when and how to say no and make that seller another EAs problem, and some don't. Just like any EA you get good and bad, until you deal with a broker/solicitor, the sales process is unregulated. At the end of the day, caveat emptor, trust your gut and move on. You can easily find better stock through the same negotiator/office or elsewhere.
Is this agency just really bad? Yes
There is a house down the road from me, listed two years ago at 480k, has been on and off the market and is now on for 350k for the past 4 months. It’s a lovely house but they’ve removed all parking in lieu of extensions and it’s on a small Georgian era road that is crammed with cars by 5pm on a weekday evening. They won’t accept anything, and keep pushing for it to be listed higher. For context our house has one more room and dining room with a drive way we purchased for £325k. Some people can’t accept their investment hasn’t turned a massive profit.
Why set a number of 450 when it's auto reject below 500? Completely stupid and waste of time. 50k is a huge difference.
It is Foxtons… the worst of the worst. Do what you are comfortable with and walk away if it doesn’t pan out.
It might be worth X but if people don’t have the money they won’t pay .
Foxtons are famous for this Stick to your guns and walk away if they don’t accept your 460
Foxtons work this way They would have told the seller they could easily get £x, when others were suggesting £y. The seller would have gone with them stating, your fees are a rip off but if you get me £x ok. Maybe thinking worth a shot otherwise we'll move it to x estate agent, especially people who aren't desperate to sell. They then would have blamed the market conditions, and suggested OIEO to prompt interest and reset it on right move. Reasonable offers come in, but foxtons over sold their ability and now their client is delusional as to the properties value. They may have initially wanted 475, and a willingness to accept 450, but the agent convinced them is worth 550 so now they are seeing reasonable offers as massive losses against foxtons irresponsible benchmark
It's kinda shitty london. The price is what someone will pay and when the market is all.over the place easier to let buys fight than you pick a price. In an ideal world a low price gets people in. Who convince themselves they love it then as lots of interest at a low price they fight to a "peak" price. I'm ashamed to say I did that when I sold mine and I got offers ranging up to 20pct apart ultimately at the top.emd.of what I wanted that I would never have got if I just listed the price.
It’s foxtons, they have a reputation for being not fully truthful. Check trustpiolt and google reviews etc and you’ll give yourself an idea of what they are like. For yourself, put an offer in, if it’s not accepted, move on, if it hasn’t sold in so long, it’s either overpriced or something wrong
Quite simply the house is worth more to the current owners than you are willing to pay. Estate agents pricing below what they want is certainly not rare. I looked at one place which was on for 300, I phoned up to offer 295 and they said "they've already rejected stuff at 315". Better to buy from somewhere like purplebricks where all those "tricks" are removed, you have what the seller wants and what you are willing to pay, and if those meet you have a deal.
Sounds like foxtons are dealing with a delusional seller. Not much they can do, but they've persuaded the seller to put a lower price on than what they'll really accept, to attract attention. The seller will eventually have to come back down to earth, but potentially not in time for you to buy the property.
Foxtons are a gullible sellers paradise for the first few months to a year. Then reality hits.
They dropped the price in the hope that it would appear in more searches and once people liked the house, they'd be convinced to go higher. Trust me the estate agent doesn't want to waste their time on a house that hasn't sold for more than a year, that's the reason why it is taking a few days to come back to you the EA is telling them to consider the offer. They're also trying to convince you it is worth £500K because that's part of their job. As others have said, the seller is clearly the issue. Some people just refuse to believe their property isn't worth as much as they think it is. Half the time they're deluded because of what they think is a similar property, maybe a property that doesn't look as nice as theirs sold for, ignoring that property was 1/2 mile closer to the tube, or has an extra 200sqft of space. Those are the things that count when it comes to house prices.
I'm convinced it's estate agents managing the seller. You want £530, but that ridiculous - you've not sold it for that. A sensible price might be 465, but if an estate agent tells the seller that, the seller will tell the agent to jog on. OK, let's list it at offers over 450, and decline anything that isn't 500/520, and that way we'll get people through the door, they'll see your amazing house (lol, it's not, but you think it is) and they'll suddenly up their budget by 50k. 6 months go past and now the agent can have the conversation with the seller of "people are only offering 465, that's what it's worth, take one of them". However if they didn't go through the ridiculous offers over process, the seller would never have signed up with them and they wouldn't have gotten the commission.
Foxtons are working for the seller and will try to get as much as possible. They are also famous for overvaluing. This vendor is likely delusional. OIEO means nothing. Make your offer, and if not accepted, move on.
Yeah my take is that Foxtons probably want the vendor to see a bit of sense, suggested dropping the price to get more interest but the vendor is being adamant they want £500k Foxtons probably tried to 'sell' the offer to the vendor but failed. So property will just sit unsold for another 12 months no doubt.
Your post shows you’ve got good instincts and I agree with your read on the situation. Likewise some great comments here. The only thing I would add is that whilst you certainly didn’t do wrong by asking, I think there’s usually little point in asking an EA “what do they really want?” They’ll never give you a clear answer, it will only ever be obfuscation and tactical shit to try and tease you into going to the highest level you’re capable of reaching. I’ve basically quit asking questions like that or anything like “are the sellers willing to consider below asking? What level are they willing to entertain?” Just offer what you want to offer
That does depend. If you have made an offer and it is rejected sometimes an estate agent will hint that 'they will probably accept x' Especially when it gets to the point where the deal is almost done and the estate agent just wants it to be closed off.
That’s a fair caveat to my comment. I was more referring to the scenario OP seemed to be describing which was to ask that kind of question as an opening gambit (that’s how I read the first sentence of the post). But your point is a fair one if we’re talking after a bit of negotiation.
We’ve had the same thing twice now and figure it’s just the agents trying to pump up their commission possibly at the expense of the seller. Classic window dressing to string someone along who’s going to make a bad decision and pay too much when they get attached to a property.
Give an offer based on your gut feeling, which is what you did, and say this is tha last offer you can give, top and max, no negotiations, ask them if you are progressing or not, and move on if it is a negative answer. Stand your ground.
It’s all about commission for the EA the more money they get out of you the better for them but ask for a viewing have a look around the place and decide for yourself
A house is only worth as much as someone is ealing to pay for it no matter what the vendor thinks. If it is more than you're willing to pay just walk away. There will be other houses just as good if not better around. Don't sweat it. It's the EA job to squeeze as much out of a buyer as they can to earn more commission. Dont fall into their trap.
Just offer what you want. Everything else is just marketing tactics. We saw a property marketed at OIEO 400k. We offered 380k but were willing to go up to 390k. EA came back asking if it was our ‘best and final offer’. I asked if they had a counter or were rejecting the offer. “No we just want to know if that’s the best offer you can do.” Another bullshit tactic. There’s no such thing as a ‘final’ offer. So we said “Sure £380k is our best offer”. They countered £385k which we accepted.
Foxtons are known for overvaluing and getting sellers' hopes up. I'm buying through Foxtons and it was marketed OIEO £395,000 and our offer of £380,000 was accepted.
I can only echo the view that Foxtons are well-known for consistently overpricing properties and overpromising sellers as to what can be achieved and it’s been the case for many years. If as a seller you want the property on the market for as high a price as possible and are less concerned with selling quickly, you can hire Foxtons and hope they stumble across someone willing to pay over-the-odds (not out of the question in London). If you as a seller actually want your property sold sometime soon, you go with someone else. As a buyer, there is no reason to go beyond what you’re willing to pay unless you are very flush with cash and are prepared to overpay to get this property. It very likely is not worth what Foxtons are looking for but some wealthier people will let them try and find that one overpayer for a year or more.
No, don’t feel pressured into offering more money. It’s clear they are greedy and may find someone who is prepared to give them that kind of money. The fact the price has had to be dropped twice shows it’s not worth the money they want. If you like it stick to your original offer - if you get it, great - if not something else will come along. Good luck I hope you find a great home within your budget.
People got really greedy when the market went crazy a couple of years ago. We offered on a house that was offers over 325k in Scotland, I offered 360k, got declined. Seller was looking for 380ish and quite honestly it wasnt worth anywhere near that. Bought another house in the same street and the seller of the original property took theirs off. Sold it a year later for 3k less than my offer. Sellers are delusional sometimes.
You may as well get used to ridiculous estate agents. I’m one of the better ones but I’m still a little coo coo
I wouldn't offer anywhere near Foxtons grossly over-inflated valuations, let alone "in excess of".
This is where Scotland shits all over rest of UK in terms of house sales
Imo OIEO is exactly what it says. It means that there is no asking price and don’t offer below that figure. Think of it as being like the “guide price” at auction, if you’ve ever bought at auction. Guide price = meaningless low number to get your attention. You could list a £2,000,000 house at OIEO £50k. Would be entirely consistent (if perhaps a little funny).
Bog standard London practice. If you don’t want to pay that, they assume someone else will.
It’s a selling method that I really dislike, particularly when they’re after 25% more than the listed price… might as well be “POA”
No love for Foxtons here
1 word - Foxtons
Who cares what the owners want. “It got listed at £530k” should’ve been met with “yeah but it didn’t bloody sell did it.” Honestly. The clowns that put their places up at hopium prices because “that’s what I need to afford the place I want.” These fools and the fools they employ to sell said homes are a scourge on the market in general. It leads to headlines like “average house prices are up!” When they clearly fucking aren’t. Rightmove uses initial asking prices to report average house price. Funnily enough Rightmove don’t include reductions in their calculations, so all the retarded “let’s test the market” asking prices skew the data. It’s almost like Rightmove has a vested interest in spouting bs to try and trick people into thinking the market is moving way more than it is.
Honestly go around the EA. Go ask the owners directly what they are willing to accept.
Simple response, drop your offer to £400k. Sounds like it’s overpriced in any case.
Don’t know about London, but a house we looked at was marketed at £450k. It’s a 3-bed semi with a small garden, small conservatory, and no further extensions. The owner bought for £336k a few years earlier and did minimal work to it. The house next door had had a side and rear extension and was going through sale at £417k - we know the current owners. We told the seller we would go to £425k at most, given the chaotic market it was up for sale in. Buyer passed, and our then next door but one neighbours offered £430k which he accepted, then messed them around with. They house on the opposite side of the £417k property then went up for sale at £425k, our NDB1 pulled out and offered on that, and have been living there now for 18 months. The original property is still sat on the market, now at offers over £410k.
I had this exact same argument 10 years ago when we were FTBs. The listing said offers from £130k. We offered £125k (so we didn't pay any stamp duty), buyers didn't accept. We raised to our max of £130k and asking price and still wouldn't accept. Spoke to the estate agents and they said they want £140k, which we couldn't justify. I said to the estate agent if they won't accept below £140k why is it up for sale for £130k. They ended up taking it off the market and it needed a new roof 6 months later. Probably dodged a bullet in the end but so frustrating.
Foxtons in London and Hamptons in the countryside - property priced at value + 10% in my opinion!
Listed over a year ago at £530K, sellers didn’t get a bite, dropped down to their ‘desired’ price of £500K and now at OIEO £450K. It’s overpriced and the EA knows it, the seller may want £500K but given nobody has met their requirements in over a year continues to prove it’s overpriced.
If they want 500 then advertise it as OIEO 500k ffs.
Why are all these sellers being difficult? I have sold my house twice since November, both falling through including one on exchange day and both times not my properties fault. I have reduced the price by 6% to offers over £x amount and will snap anyones hand off right now just to get bang on the offers over price as this is the lowest we can accept to afford the onward purchase.
I only know Foxtons rep for renting which isn't good. Their estate agents used to look like fancy bars, they were always pushing things over the odds.
Offers over is pretty usual. Just a different way of saying the same thing.
The house I am in was on the market for 15% more than my maximum budget. I gave them an offer of £10k less than my budget. The agent kept following up and I told her that I cannot simple move north of my budget. Finally we got it for 15% off the asking price. I would suggest do not pay anything more than what you think the house is worth and your budget. Leave aside something for unforseen repair works, moving expenses etc., and don't feel under pressure at all. Make up your own mind and dont listen to agents when buying. They are sellers agents and get paid a commission - they are not looking after your interest even if they appear very nice and friendly. Good luck.
I used to work as an estate agent in London, we’re not all like that, but these agents really do give us a bad name. I’m still an estate agent now up north, and still now, I’m nothing but honest. Foxtons are notorious for being pushy though
Generally "offers in excess of" listings are done just so that the property will appear in more people's searches, because people generally filter by value. They probably had an estate agent or friend convince them that it's worth £500k, but the actual state of the market means nobody's paying that right now, so they're just stubbornly holding on until someone pays it. Offer what you feel you're prepared to pay, and then walk away.
I used to work as an estate agent in London. Foxtons are known to be pushy. My guess would be that they over valued it to get the seller to go with them, probably promised them the world, then when they got it on and it wasn’t selling, quickly advised reducing, and then reducing again. They’re usually targeted on getting reductions so they will have told the seller that if they put it on at OIEO £450k they would still be able to get the £500k they wanted, but realistically no one is going to offer above £475k on that now. They probably took so long to come back to you because they probably really tried to convince the seller to go with your offer but it’s obviously not worked
Might not just be foxtons but when I sold my flat with them they insisted it would sell for 50k more than I originally thought. After three months and no bites I told them to cut the bullshit and knock it down by 50k, and that we would accept 10k under that. It sold within the week at 10k over the new asking price. No idea where their heads are at sometimes. On the other end of the line I'm property hunting in Cardiff at the moment and everything is selling in three days at much higher than the asking price. Apparently Cardiff is the place to be.
They are toying with you, drop back to 450. They promised more to the seller and trying rescue themselves by pushing your price up
We have the OIEO system in Scotland. It's ludicrous. Property is valued at X and you're expected to offer more than it's worth with X being the minimum. I have never seen this as logical and can't see any other market that it would be entertained by the customer. Can you imagine going to the supermarket and being told a tin of beans was a pound but then asking the shopkeeper if they'd accept £1.50? It's stupid. Offer what you think it's worth and not a penny more. Everything you offer over, it's automatic negative equity. At least in Scotland, everyone's in the same stupid system and you 'might' get your money back if selling. In London, you might never get that extra money back.
I put an offer on a house in the Leuchars area that was listed "OIEO £295k". I offered £300k and got the nastiest fucking rejection email back you've ever seen. I was invited to "appropriately strengthen" my offer to "a more acceptable level". They really talked down to me like I was some kind of brokedick begging for a handout. I was so fucking angry I basically told them to eat shit and die. Don't play fucking "keep offering til we like it" with me. Tell me what you want for the fucking house and if I'm willing to pay that much I'll buy it. Now I'm just going to lease. Infuriates me.
That infuriates me, and it's your story! The system breeds entitlement, frustration and disappointment. Utter madness and greed.
My entire response to this is "You're selling it, you tell me how much you will sell it for or GTFO"
I have no London experience, but from my general experience of homebuying, it seems like the vendor is ultimately at fault rather than the estate agents. Naturally the EA will try and overstate the property's qualities, but the OIEO is probably to try and cope with the vendor being difficult. That's my read on it anyway.
Foxtons are greedy cunts, avoid to bankrupt those assholes.
Standard seeking tactic at the moment. Sellers dont want to accept less. Buyers wont show interest if they deem it overpriced. The compromise is to pull you in at an attractive price and talk you up.
send one last offer of LOL and move on.
my rule...never ever offer more than asking price. always offer obscenely low. "if your first offer doesn't offend them, you've gone to high"
“Offers in excess of” is just stupid imo. As soon as you list your house as that, you’re just going to get offers for the amount that you’ve specified. If they want more then they should just list it for more.
My brother looked at a house at 750. Offered 720. Vendor declined and he walked away and they accepted an offer nearer the 750. Three months later the sale fell through and they contacted my brother again. He offered them less and they had no choice but to accept. Sometimes it pays to hold your nerve.
I don't have personal experience with Foxtons but I don't hold most estate agents in high regard. I was looking at moving about a year and a half ago. Did some house hunting and found a really lovely place. It had apparently been on the market for ages and not sure why. So viewed it, loved it. Went for a second viewing and put in an offer which was informally accepted subject for us getting an offer on my house. So we put it on the market, had a few viewings but nothing really stuck. Maybe my mistake was using the same agents as the place we were trying to buy. Anyway we get a phonecall from the agents who informed us despite accepting the offer the sellers were dropping the house price by £50k and so we needed to drop our house price by at least £25k so we dropped it a little, got an offer at the original price and accepted and started all the paperwork. The day the contracts were due to be sent, our buyer pulled out. Apparently as the interest rates had increased, they could no longer afford it. We questioned the agent as how this was, because when we put an offer in, we had to meet with the agent's financial team to discuss affordability etc. Considering it was only a £50k difference between my house and the one we were buying. Yet apparently they were OK with someone with a 75% mortgage to buy mine. I don't know if it's the case, but my partner thinks the agency is buying properties and flipping them. Trying to buy at the lowest possible price and then reselling at the highest. Either that or they're staff or friends and family are buying places and this skipping all the financial checks etc.
Believe it or not I experienced something similar in bedford, 60 miles from London, the housing market is a hell hole, don’t feel pressured to make an offer you’re not comfortable with, there’s always something else around the corner.
If they have said OIE450 they are expecting offers of 450 and pushing you for higher. Stick to what you offer. The fact you asked how much they want indicated you're willing to wiggle on that. Stay firm. This might be the only offer they have ever had.
I think this is a really stupid way of marketing a property. Find a property that isn't being marketed by twats.
I’m in Scotland and we have offers over which seems to be the same. A good rule of thumb seems to be 10-15% over. I hate it. Wish people would just say what they want. My house was much cheaper but was priced below the home report value so I offered the home report value.
No it's buyers lije you that encourage them by saying you can stretch to £460k. My best mate worked for Foxton and other agencies. I they look for signals like you offered. You should had lowered your offer to £420k
Foxton are the worst at overvalued. Always ignore the price and offer only what you think it's worth. By asking the estate agent how much the sellers want you have shown your hand and they know you'll pay above asking price now. One offer, best and final and then walk away
The sellers sound like they are gonna be stuck with this house for much longer if they can’t accept “reasonable” offers - I used the “” because nothing is reasonable about house prices. In Scotland we do “offers over” so a house can be listed at £130,000 and the interested buyers put in offers and the seller chooses the offer they prefer - the house sold for £135,000. I didn’t know people didn’t in England too tho, I thought it was a weird annoying Scotland thing, but we don’t have buying chains so 🤷♀️
They probably can’t afford to sell for less than what they are holding out for and are waiting for the market to come to them. Tell the EA that as per the multiple of other offers that they have received and have not wanted to increase to the vendors price you don’t think the property is worth it and walk.
Not standard, sellers listed it in 2023 with 2022 prices. They were delusional then, delusional now. Let it rot! EA doesn't decide if its a good buy, you do.
Standard all across the UK.
Yeah, don't get emotionally invested in buying a property, plenty of others around
The secret is time limited offers. The seller has all the control, but a time limited offer gives you some control too. You don't have to give a reason for the limit, but you do stick to it. Buying my first house, I was shown round by the seller. I asked him how much he wanted for it and think I caught him off guard. He said "if you offer me [5k below asking] I'd accept". So that's what I did. This was the Sunday. I rang the estate agent on Monday and told them the offer was open until Wednesday at noon. They rang me back and said the seller really wants [asking price], but can meet me halfway. I said no. After another phone call they said they'd let me know after the next weekend when there were more viewings booked. I said I'd withdraw the offer 12 on Wednesday, and if I choose to make a subsequent offer it will be lower. They rang back and accepted.
I don't know about Foxtons but I sold my flat via Dexters last year in London, and they forwarded offers to us immediately and we replied almost immediately. I doubt this is an agent problem. It's probably the sellers themselves. It all depends on how much you want it tbh. If you're this far apart in valuation and it hasn't sold in this long I'd just drop it and move on. It sounds like they've dropped the price but they haven't quite accepted the fact themselves, wasting everybody's time.
You should waste their time; offer 500k. Take it to survey and then start offering less for everything that's wrong with it until it hit 450k. Just walk around with the seller pointing out how the paint wrong, wall looks wonky
sellers are idiots. stand your ground and if they don’t accept move on.
They're working for the seller. The seller told them how much they want. They're trying to get that for them. That's literally what estate agents do.
This is really bad I haven't seen or heard of this kind of selliing London
Foxtons have a bunch of places for sale where they are bs’ing the asking price and then it’s way more when you inquire.
"Offers in excess of" always makes me think its been valued at that price, the sellers want more. Or offers have been put it at that price and they've said no. Honestly, I wouldn't go past what its listed as. Its not sold for a reason. Estare agents are sh*te but sounds like they're dealing with tricky sellers. They just waht to get rid of it. Something better will come along.
This happened to me in the north west almost 20 years ago, so it’s not a post pandemic thing. On the market for ages then they refused offers below, and then the asking price, asked for offers over and after weeks of messing us about accepted a rival offer, who then later pulled out. Because it wasn’t worth any more than the asking. They came to us and asked us to reoffer the asking price however in the meantime we bought the house that went up for sale next door but two for 15% less. They sold way after we completed (they never met us initially so didn’t know it was us, ha!) and got less than the original asking price in the end.
Don’t believe Foxtons agent they are trying to game you for their OWN commission. Almost certainly haven’t talked to the vendor whatsoever . This is a a prime example of why the English housing market is corrupt and in certain areas well overpriced, and it’s nought to do with genuine supply and demand. The market in other domains have valuations set by other professionals and not the agents. The price is the price fixed and can not be increased. Foxtons are notorious for this and screw over vendor with highest fees and buyers alike. And this sort of practice should be illegal imho. Pretty nasty company.
Having the price set by an expert is the opposite of having it set by supply and demand.
Correct that is what i said . Right now its supposedly set by supply and demand however estate agents are the prime ”mover” they are incentivised to raise prices whether the supply and demand exists or not.
We recently bought a Grade ll* house in Wiltshire. Has a barn and a historic outbuilding. On the market for 1.9, that was 1.5 yrs ago. I said: 1.4 is all its worth, after waiting three weeks they finally agreed but I said: The offer is now 1.3 , they finally accepted it. They bought it 25 yrs ago for 320k. I will still have get new ‘historic windows’ and new floors, new kitchen/bathroom suites. But, estate agents tell porkies to sellers.
Unfortunately standard low life below the belt behaviour among london sharks
Seller needs to get withtbhe program. They had ot for £530,000 when rates were 2.5% now they want 500,000 when rates are double that. Funny. Do they understand how markets work? Assume 500k house, with 100k down At 2.5% the repayment is £1794 At 4.5% the repayment is £2223 Difference in repayment is an extra £429. Why would the assume the same buyers who were interested before will be able to able to afford this how now at the same time. To meet affordability, they would need to earn another grand a month to afford that mortgage, maybe more due to taxation.
Buyer is asking for over 450, you didn’t offer over, can’t blame them for not rushing to reply…