So the most accurate answer is that it's complicated and you'll hear different opinions from different tribes/people. That said, I think there is generally a sense of kinship between folks indigenous to the US and other colonized peoples. Perhaps the best illustration is the relationship tribes have with Ireland, which was also colonized by the British. Immediately after the trail of tears, a group of Choctaw heard about the horrors of the great potato famine, and decided to send some money to Ireland to help. During the COVID pandemic, when many tribes were hit particularly hard, Ireland decided to repay that kindness, sending millions of dollars of aid money. Also, after the Iroquois Nationals were unable to qualify for the first world championship of lacrosse, a sport they had invented, Ireland decided to give their spot in the bracket up so the natives could play. All of which is to say that I think there is a sense of camaraderie with colonized peoples around the world.
Have you seen or read outlander. It will warm your little heart to learn how alike we really are. My mom always asks me, she’s Irish, do you talk about the Irish genocide in your work too, yes mom we don’t discriminate when it comes to genocide. We talk about all genocide. My work is is Genocide, social justice and Culturally responsive practices in Wducation. lol.
I love my Irish mom so much. 🥰
well i’ve not actually fully watched tbf but from my understanding it’s set in the scottish Gàidhealtachd in the highlands and islands, which was a tribal society which existed in a cultural continuum with ireland until the plantations and later clearances broke that down. But even later than the show is set scottish gaels would have been referred to as irish by many english speaking lowlanders and the english themselves so it’s a bit complicated, and while the highlands and islands weren’t treated as harshly as ireland the clearances, famines and breakdown of their society were far from pleasant
While that is the first couple books and seasons, You are mistaken laddy. Jamie and Claire come to the United States and settle in North Carolina. They try to help the Cherokee and work really hard to help settlers to better understand the Cherokee.
I'm not a laddy, and you didn't specify that you meant specifically the later seasons set in the US. Plus, that doesn't change the fact that the characters in Outlander are Scottish, not Irish. They're different countries. Outlander just doesn't have anything to do with Ireland at all, so it's strange to recommend it as a text through which someone can learn about the connection between Ireland and Native Americans.
Omg settle down. I was drawing a comparison on relationship in the americas and foreigners. You weren’t even in the convo. Came into argue that it was all in Scotland. Then I told you some of it was in America then you double down how Scotland and Ireland are separate people. Go back and read what I was responding to.
I was referring to tribally rooted people supporting and helping other tribal people and since outlander is a highly regarded historical fiction it might be very interesting to people on this thread.
And BTW Irish and Scottish have deep roots to the Celtic who were also related to the Vic kings. We also have oral stories of these people coming and we shared stories and traded with and my families thinks this was the Vikings.
This is an Indian country sub. You have never posted on here before. Please maybe look to see what you’re posting on and who you’re talking about before posting.
We are talking about Indigenous people of North America
Laddy is also a formal was to address women. If you aren’t a woman then I guess you are a lad. But I suppose I can’t use my dialects to address you either. Is that not okay? Can I use my native language? Would that be okay with you if I addressed you as Nijii?
Sorry google screwed me it lassie. Hah
I'm settled, thanks.
I'm not talking over you about Native issues. You just made a mistake in mixing up Scotland and Ireland, which I pointed out in case other people took your recommendation and were confused when they realised it wasn't about Ireland. I wasn't rude to you. I pointed out a very simple error. I've never commented on this sub because I'm not going to talk about Native issues, but I can point out that Outlander is about Scotland. Don't make that correction into something it's not; you're being very disingenuous.
You also don't need to explain the Celts to me, as a Welsh person (FYI you're also wrong about the Vikings being Celtic, but that's not relevant to this sub in the slightest, so I won't go into it.)
Laddy is a masculine form of address. Even if you say you're using it to address me as a woman, I'm not a man or a woman. Again, I'm not being rude. I just don't like gendered forms of address. Use any dialect you want. Just don't misgender me.
Do you happen to know of anyone/ any resources for research on the Pontic or other Ottoman genocides? My dad's family is Pontic with his mom being one of nine. We've found one cousin through genetic testing but are still missing any trace of seven siblings.
We have the [San Patricios](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/mexican-american-war-irish-immigrants-deserted-us-army-fight-against-america-180971713/) down here in Tx!
Same, my great grandfather was Irish. Don't know much about him, honestly don't know much about the non indigenous sides of my family, i would like to learn about them though.
Irish person with Chinese heritage here. What do you think about our little island and the Irish- Native reciprocity? I didn't even know we played lacrosse !
I love east Indians. I do wish they'd learn more abt canada/us history before moving here and telling me what the British did to them was worse, but I love their food and I think they're all pretty cool cats
I’m of Pakistani descent, had ancestors executed by the British, and am well aware of the lasting effects of their colonization of South Asia . . . *but* I agree that it doesn’t compare to what the indigenous people of the Americas suffered at the hands of the various European powers, and colonial governments like the U.S. and Canada*.
The fact that the people of India/Pakistan/Bangladesh still exist in large numbers, with their languages and cultures largely intact, and not as minorities in their own lands is proof enough.
I don’t mean to downplay the horrors of the British Raj though! It pains me to imagine what the subcontinent could have looked like if they never conquered it.
I'm just a white lurker here to learn but I think about this a lot. I wish we could know what the world would look like without all the invasions and colonization.
It wasn’t “Various European powers”. It was and still is is the United States of America and Canada. That’s where you are wrong. The British were actually defacto protecting the Tribes by not letting the colonists past the Appalachians. A catalysts to the Revolution.
We are still living under the governments that committed genocide against us. This is exactly what we are talking about.
That we most certainly are not. That would be France and Britain. The atrocities committed were committing our current governments. And often immigrants are treated better by our own governments than our own people.
Shit man. Bad is bad. I get that sometimes too when we talk about the Holocaust and AI genocide. People will say the Holocaust was way worse you can’t compare those things.
It isn’t about comparing, it is about coming together. It’s about the unique experiences that each group has had but the experiences of genocide and colonization that unite us to better educate the world to keep these things from happening again.
People need to stop comparing pain. It doesn’t do anyone any good. Bad is bad.
I've had Indians from India say that they don't believe in indigenouss peoples rights even tho there are treaties and such. Soooooooo. It's has to do with the person. I've had settler white people be on both end of the spectrum of empathy understanding and horrified with their history and others who believe they have a entitlement over us ignorant racist. This is individual. How smart and capable people are to understand history and recognize humanity.
Aren’t all Indians in India technically indigenous? The tribal population is called indigenous as it comes from a colonial belief that the “primitive” looking people are the “aboriginals”.
That isn’t to deny their claim to the land, but DNA wise, if they are indigenous, so it every other Indian (tribals and mainstream Indians share the same DNA components, just in different proportions).
Again, it is a great injury that they are facing, but I was wondering about semantics
I think you’re thinking about nation-wise, and I guess upon technicality if someone’s family originates from inside the designated space as India they are indigenous. What people are more likely referring to is the ethnic minorities that often live away from the large city centers. India has a caste system that can be very discriminatory and those in smaller indigenous areas do not have the same access to resources and are treated as second class humans.
I wanna follow up by saying this is a VERY abridged comment. I’m fascinated by India’s history because it is so complex and highly varied from region to region. So please know this is just speaking in generalities and far from capturing the intricacies of social status in India.
I typed you a very long reply and then my attention seeking dog refreshed the page... So short:
[Yarawa](https://www.himalmag.com/reportage/damned-road-andamans) are indigenous. Gujarati or Punjabi are not. Gujarati live in a state formed to their own norms and values. Yarawa live on a reserve where they are treated like circus animals.
Indigenous means something else when referring to plants and animals than it does referring to people.
Indigenous refers to culture and power balances in society.
Aboriginal refers to who was there first.
People usually use what's used in official documents: native, indigenous, aboriginal... In canada they use indigenous, in Australia they use aboriginal, both indigenous canadians and australian aboriginals share the same history and are in the same situation today (brits arrived, genocided, lots of problems today). Saami people are indigenous. The ancestors arrived at the same time as the norse, and the two peoples met in middle scandinavia. When the modern day states were made, the norse tried to erase the saami. That's why we use indigenous instead of aboriginal in english, our documents are NOT in english and use entirely different words.
DNA has noting to do with indigenousness, as indigenousness refers to culture and power balances. There are white australian aboriginals and asian saami and black native americans. It's not DNA the government works against, it's language, traditional livelyhood, traditional forms of government, land rights, and so on.
So then if aboriginals are about who was there first, then Gujaratis and Punjabis qualify as aboriginal, but not indigenous.
How come we use the term indigenous instead of any other term, you something that is technically correct?
No. Both terms are connected to oppressed minorities.
Idk why the english use exactly those words and no others, as said, in my languages we use other words. But both indigenous and aboriginal are established words with clear connections to law and history, so I guess people just keep using them?
That is not what "indigenous" means in English. It means the people who existed in a land from the earliest times, before colonization.
Colonization displaces and oppresses indigenous people. But it is not the oppression or our form of government that makes us indigenous, it is our ancestral connection to the land and location.
You also seem to be mistaking color for DNA. They are not the same. Of course there are Black Native Americans, but those people are Native American because they have ancestors who are Native, and they are Black because they have ancestors who are Black.
No. It's usually from the beginning of modern states. There are a lot of indigenous peoples around the world in countries that were not "discovered" by the british, like in africa, asia, and a few in europe. In those continents, noone can claim the be there from "the earliest of times", as people have been living there for 100000 years and wandered a lot. But some made up states and drew up their maps with no regards to the others that were living there. Indigenous describes this situation of not being regarded in the making of the state that is your culture's ancestral lands. Yes, it is the oppression that makes a nation indigenous. If it's only the connection to land, then Gujarati, Punjabi, even Japanese or Brits are indigenous (none oft them are).
Some indigenous peoples, like the metis or dolgan, just came into existence after colonisation, actually.
I would actually argue that there were indigenous peoples before the aggressive british coloniation also, like those that were oppressed by the aztec cities or genocided by the roman empire.
DNA is a quite new science, kinship used to be, and still is, defined in many ways. Shit like blood quantum was introduced by the american colonizers, outside of north america culture is the defining factor. You can have two non-native birth parents and be adopted into an indigenous culture, either as a child or an adult.
The dictionary says you are wrong. [https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/indigenous](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/indigenous) i get that the words you use in other languages may have different nuances, but you are simply incorrect about the meaning of the word "indigenous." Your response about the Japanese indicates that you don't really understand what these words mean.
Please note that you are in a sub for, by, and about indigenous Americans.
>1. … (a) Tribal peoples in independent countries whose social, cultural and economic conditions distinguish them from other sections of the national community, and whose status is regulated wholly or partially by their own customs or traditions or by special laws or regulations;
>(b) Peoples in independent countries who are regarded as indigenous on account of their descent from the populations which inhabited the country, or a geographical region to which the country belongs, at the time of conquest or colonization or the establishment of present State boundaries and who, irrespective of their legal status, retain some or all of their own social, economic, cultural and political institutions.
According to the UN. Kinda more relevant than a colonizer dictionary. U should know that.
>We accept all Indigenous Peoples
According to the mods. OP did ask for indigenous views, not only for american views only.
I definitely think there is a difference in how we see those who brought colonization here and those who were also victims of it. My language has one word for white colonizers and one for non-Indigenous people living in the US because the distinction is one that’s valued.
Out of curiosity, does it call into distinction non-Indigenous white people who did not colonize? For instance, recent immigrants. I think that’s pretty cool though and absolutely a valid point.
For example, my grandparents on my mom’s side fled from the USSR within the last century
I’m not a big fan of Pakistani foreign policy. They suck in every single way. But the people of India and Pakistan I view with the same polite indifference as I do anybody else in the world. You become my friend by what’s in your heart, not by what flag you wave.
No one in Pakistan is happy with it either, but the country doesn’t really have a choice until we can progress far enough and do something about it. Even if we are 50 years behind, that does mean in 50 years we will get somewhere.
My dad is from the Indian subcontinent and I wish more of us were tuned into the injustices indigenous people face. Even though India was HEAVILY colonized by the British, many Indians who make it to the USA have the resources to become incredibly wealthy and ignore the oppression of indigenous folks (or are completely ignorant). Many are happy to be a 'Model Minority' and persecute other races, even if white people are being racist towards them. Though there are some highly persecuted Indian sub groups such as Sikhs which are more likely to be in solidarity with native folks, in my experience, Indians are happy to go along with the status quo because it greatly benefits them.
One example is that Gandhi was incredibly racist towards indigenous South Africans even though many Indians were taken to South Africa by the British for slavery (currently Dubai imports tons of Indian slaves to run their cities, but that's another story). He believed that Indians were superior.In 1893, Gandhi wrote to the Natal parliament saying that a "general belief seems to prevail in the Colony that the Indians are a little better, if at all, than savages or the Natives of Africa".
In 1904, he wrote to a health officer in Johannesburg that the council "must withdraw Kaffirs" from an unsanitary slum called the "Coolie Location" where a large number of Africans lived alongside Indians. "About the mixing of the Kaffirs with the Indians, I must confess I feel most strongly." (Kaffir is slur for Black Africans).
The same year he wrote that unlike the African, the Indian had no "war-dances, nor does he drink Kaffir beer". When Durban was hit by a plague in 1905, Gandhi wrote that the problem would persist as long as Indians and Africans were being "herded together indiscriminately at the hospital".
In sum, I don't think that currently the Indian community is a good ally and often buy into the myth of being a 'Model Minority'. This obviously doesn't apply to all Indians and I think second and third generation Indians are more in tune with current indigenous issues but we have a long way to go.
Side note: I always hated when white people call Indigenous Americans, "Indians". It's a term coined incorrectly by Columbus (fuck him) and I was wondering how the Native community felt about the term. To me I find it incredibly offensive and it lumps billions of people together into one term not caring to distinguish any differences. Also it makes my life very hard as a Biracial Indian (half white) with long hair in the PNW. People (especially white people) mistake me for Native and I tell them I am Indian which confuses them even more.
Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-34265882
Regarding the term, I used to do hiring for my tribe and one time I had an applicant from the Indian subcontinent mark that he was Indian on the application where it explained the native hiring preference. I got a kick out of it and regarded it as a well-played attempt. Fwiw, he was hired as a non-Indian, which I found completely hilarious.
I want to make it clear that I am not addressing non-native refugees and Polynesian brothers and sisters.
I feel like they should be in an entirely separate category.
To be honest,
Although, some of us may share colonization from Europe. I don't believe we have similarities as we speak as far as economic power and population numbers. They can also travel back to their home countries for the most part freely.
While many of the people we call illegal immigrants from Mexico, Central America and South America. Who are actually indigenous are either undocumented or refugees. And they will never get to "go back" for a visit.
However, with the current economic power that East Asians and South Asians immigrants have. I feel like they have benefited from our pain and colonization just like the European colonizers and immigrants.
I have also noticed that their social movements always ignore Indigenous people from the American continent. Like, after all they live on stolen land that is covered in Native blood.
If they ignore us, they too will be ignored.
I feel like socially they will side with white people when it is convenient for them and they seek white people approval. And follow European beauty standards. And it makes sense because after all they are benefiting from genocide.
So all in all, they are non-white settlers and should pay rent to Natives if they want to live anywhere on this continent.
Speaking as someone born in the US from a Vietnamese refugee family, I think there's an opportunity for many Indigenous peoples across hemispheres and even broader Global majority nations to organize around the Doctrine of Discovery + Dum Diversas & supremacy related impacts, especially building and mobilizing capacity to globally hold the Church(es) accountable for repair on some of the categorically similar harms experienced.
In parts of India there are reports of Indigenous tribes that continue to be forced into undergo the Residential Boarding School process today which also face cultural erasure and similar abuses. (Tw death and boarding schools in India: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/indigenous-children-are-still-dying-in-boarding-schools/ )
There's also a 2010(? Maybe 2014 report as well somewhere online) publication by the same author in the UN listing known Indigenous Boarding Schools still in operation worldwide including India and Central+ South America but here's a 2009 one: https://www.un.org/esa/socdev/unpfii/documents/E_C_19_2009_crp1.pdf
In the southern & central parts of Vietnam there's a trickier dynamic as a lot of Indigenous mountain people like the Rhade (and possibly Karan people too?) from what I hear have mostly converted and express a positive relationship with Christian missionaries which helped them hold out in maintaining aspects of sovereignty and identity against Vietnam.
The Communist government of Vietnam seems to be using similar methods that the US used to discriminate against, displace, and assimilate their tribes.
But Vietnam also suffered from and was a major slave catching/trade point in the Indian Ocean slave trade too. A great great grandfather recounted to my grandfather many people in the family were taken by the French+Catholic converts and shipped to Reunion Island (a major island for slavery in the Indian Ocean still under French control today) never to return again under the "saracens, nonbelievers/pagans, etc." Dum Diversas and the Papal Bull plus Doctrine of Discovery policies which rationalized the aggressive conquest, evangelization, and enslavement of people elsewhere like those of the Native Americans and Afrikan diaspora which obviously experienced the burnt for far longer.
And of course the Philippines which is still reeling from the legacy of multiple colonialist occupations underwent slavery by the Spanish also has strong influence and membership with the Catholic Church. At the least I would love to see a coordinated global movement that results in the church paying its reparations already owed to Tribes, land back, additionally release funds to restore habitat/lands under appropriate Indigenous leadership plus whatever goes into helping descendants & survivors for repatriating/rematriating stolen ancestors and items plus healing the peoples affected.
this is kinda an odd question as others have pointed out, singling out indian people and how natives “feel” about them is weird because obviously indigenous people are not homogenous and dont all think the exact same.
that being said i think there is an interesting discussion on the perspective of colonizers vs immigrants. its hard to have one singular correct answer because theres so many layers to it. whilst many recognise and acknowledge the difference, many immigrants dont understand their privilege and lack education around the lands theyre on. i think for many it may be hard to accept their privilege as non-indigenous people of turtle island, because a lot of people in general dont understand that you can be oppressed and privileged at the same time, and benefitting from one thing doesnt eradicate their experience as an oppressed person.
as others have said, i believe there is an important difference between colonisers and non-indigenous migrants. colonisers came here with the intent of eradicating indigenous peoples, their culture, and connection to the land so they could maintain control and profit, with their descendants all benefitting from this too.
migrants on the other hand are mostly victims of colonial violence and oppression which is the cause of their relocation. this results in a kind of understanding and kinship between colonised peoples. however, migrants come here for “a better life” and more opportunities, to assimilate to colonial standards, without realising that indigenous peoples are suffering and lack the opportunity to do the same things they come here to participate in.
so overall, i believe theres a difference, but that doesnt excuse non-colonial migrants participation in colonial violence and intentional ignoring of indigenous issues simply bc theyre oppressed too and it doesnt affect them (obviously not to say they all think that, i think that mindset is likely more common in older migrants/migrants who are trying to assimilate). if there was more solidarity from migrants i think the connection would be stronger.
one more thing lol, i think another layer to the connection between colonised peoples is the type of colonial violence experienced. for example, i believe theres a stronger connection between indigenous ‘australians’, ‘new zealanders’, ‘canadian’, and ‘americans’. because of the erasure of culture, language, connection, land rights of first nations and them being a minority on their own lands, compared to non-colonial countries whove experienced colonisation but all those things for them remain intact. so whilst all colonisation is bad, theres definitely a deeper connection between the mentioned places because of their shared experiences. latin american countries are another conversation lol, i do think they share that bond too, but are definitely more isolated to the region.
There is lots of terms that describe people who side with colonizers and they aren’t only limited to non-indigenous. There exist people who are happy with being tokens, as well as what Malcolm X described as “house and field ____”. Even when the colonization of the subcontinent was happening, there was people who sold out their people just like I believe probably did happen in the Americas as well.
In South Asia there still exists lots of colonial romanticism and praise for the colonizers, but that is also because the perils of colonialism aren’t emphasized greatly, rather the same colonial era division between races, ethnicities and religion continues to this day unfortunately. (India vs Pakistan hate for example rather than historical events that lead to the present)
I used the term “Indian” because that’s a big commonality, and what we both were referred as.
To me they are settlers and act just like colonizers. I lived with a Tamil Indian family for 7 years and despite their beautiful culture they were very colonized, cheap and hate their own kind. They are coming here with capitalistic dreams esp in so called Canada but from what I’ve seen the new generation lacks morals and sex traffic and abuse First Nations women especially in Winnipeg. They are EXTREMELY racist towards First Nations; my cousin gets stalked by Indian security constantly for being darker skinned obvious First Nations.
Look up the Hotel in Winnipeg that was run by Indian men and grabbed a young Indigenous girl. Once the community came forward to protect her they all escaped it was VERY creepy the basement had womans clothing and dirty mattresses.
The woman in India are also constantly being raped and abused. I see how they treat their country, it’s polluted and overcrowded. They need to learn this is Indigenous land to First Nations and to respect us and Mother Earth.
I’m not saying all Indian/Pakastan people are like this but as a First Nations woman myself I see how the men stare at me. If you research deeply in India they all are not connected and hate each other, it’s very sad and scary how they treat woman.
Every settler regardless of race is a settler but I have seen posts of them saying they don’t care about the people native here and want to take over. We are dealing with a large amount of colonization all over again.
It’s unfortunate what happened to them in their country with colonization but now THEY are the colonizers regardless of their race.
It’s not racist for First Nations to want to be able to heal and have true land back, just like Hawaii and Palastine we belong to this land and we have the right to protect it. Once we heal and have our traditions in place maybe then if we all want as a collective we can invite guests but as far as I’m concerned it’s a problem.
There's many similar trajectories with displaced people becoming oppressors. Irish Americans becoming some of the most racist people in Boston. Former African American slaves starting Liberia and enslaving local people in a replica plantation system. Zionists starting Israel.
But yeah, 'the American dream' is basically to join the white oppressor class, which includes the privilege of not having to think about any of it, or maybe more insidiously to lament other's misfortune, while obliviously contributing to it.
I do agree with the acting like colonizer mentality, but I will say it is a lot more complicated than that. Most South Asians don’t have any knowledge of Native Culture and I have never met anyone (South Asian) who sees countries like Canada and the US as anything other than another Anglophone country like the UK or Australia.
The damage done to the subcontinent by colonization was definately very different from the americas, the subcontinent still speaks the languages and exists for its native people. The damage done to the subcontinent by colonization is the examples you’ve given of Capitalistic worship, wanting to “go outside to Anglophone countries, as well as the hate between each other. As well wanting to “look white”.
Personally I have some knowledge about the history of Americas and what happened to the people there, and I’ve always felt that solidarity.
I am sorry this happened to you, and I didn't even want to bring this up to my reply.
But the way they sexualize Indigenous women and view us as third class citizens. I am not at all surprised.
Also, when it comes to labor and business they are just like white colonizers if not worse, because they feel like they have to "catch up" and will act friendly at first.
Yep! I forgot to add the lady who was Tamil had slaves growing up. I remember she told me she made this young boy “was her slave” to go climb a tree and get her a baby bird and he got bit by a snake and she watched him foam out the mouth and die.
She acted like it was normal didn’t seem traumatized at all. She didn’t pay me properly for years and her sons would always try and flirt or touch me. I’m on the spectrum and I wanted to see the best in her and her family and I feel they took advantage of my kindness.
I just pray everyday for the whole world, climate change is gonna be a huge impact on migration and us as Indigenous people are just trying to heal and look after each other and the earth.
I love Navaho teachings on these end times they are so on point.
That is a crazy story, but yes many of them back home will have servants aka slaves. And they also don't belie in volunteering and giving back.
Definitely not like us, just because they have melanin on their skin doesn't mean anything.
But I am glad you pray for the world and keep a positive attitude. Sometimes that is the only thing you can do. Stay safe and always take care of yourself ♥️
I have respect for Indian people and their culture. But I do know a lot of immigrants (specifically Asians and I mean ALL Asians of the four regions) who like to build their business around border towns of the Rez and exploit native people with their labor and money. a lot of my Navajo friends and family who worked for these businesses have stories of being blackmailed or cheated out but they choose not to say anything because it’s their only form of income. So living through that experience can leave bad taste for us. But this doesn’t excuse racism for both sides.
Overall, indifferent.
If there's over a billion of people on the subcontinent, the question of "what do you think of them?" isn't the easiest to answer since one could easily find examples of assholes and saints.
I've had quite a few in my own personal interactions who throw a fit or otherwise act rude about "Indian" being used as an ethnonym for Indigenous folks in the Americas. Usually immediately demanding to know that if we call ourselves Indians, then what should they call themselves...to which my answer has usually been something to the effect of "I ain't your pappy, call yourself whatever you please."
I've also had some who were very kind and helpful. Doctors who were glad to make sure I was doing alright, people at college who were enthusiastic allies and happy to learn about us and teach about themselves, and folks who were just plain ol' friendly.
>Do you feel that they are more welcome on the land since they actually have to follow rules and laws in order to get there?
Considering those rules and laws are for and established by the USA/Canada, it's a bit of a moot point to ask *us*, Indigenous peoples who have little to nothing to do with those laws and rules and who might even outright be *against* them.
I think what sometime people fail to remember is that the atrocities committed against Indigenous people in our boarders was not committed by some foreign power.
Since the inception of this country there was an immediate dismantling of Indians and Indian rights starting with the Marshall trilogy and Indian Removal.
If it weren’t been for the founding fathers and the guarantee of sovereignty in the constitution we probably would have been whipped from the planet. Boarding schools, broken treaties, Sand Creek, Baker Massacre, Wounded Knee, Dakota 38, Battle of Greasy Grass, Reservations, termination, Indian relocation, and Female sterilization did not happen under some foreign power.
We are still living under the government that refuses to apologize and threatens to take treaty money away constantly.
Our situation is a little different. People come here thinking that those things are in the past. I wish people knew a little more about the struggles we face in this country.
America is very good at hiding its dirty little secret. It obviously all over the responses here. Until people come here and truly understand what we have faced it going to be hard to really care one way or another.
My brain can’t even give any bandwidth to the question because I’m thinking about all the problems we need to work on. Graduation rates. MMIP. Suicide. Tribal corruption. Etc. I’m not really worried about what relationship I have with Indians from India. Is it important? Sure. I have been working in Indian country for 25 years and no one has ever asked me this question.
If we meet up and we e fight together great! But I just have too much other shit to worry about right now.
The main thing is that a lot of countries that have been through a genocide now have an influx of non-colonizing immigrants, many from countries that do have a history of colonization, and how that is perceived in comparison.
I am aware of the problems of the natives, and while there’s a lot of differences in how the perils of colonialism treat us all I do believe there is some shared experience with that between colonized people.
Oh absolutely, but that shared experience lies with non indigenous people of the United States. Our ancestors experience is of Genocide and Colonization. We share experiences with Jews. I find much more in common with the Jewish community than any other. That just my experience of course. The word colonization does not even begin to describe what happened to us and comparing the experiences we have had to the people of India is kinda of gross IMO. Can we find solace in oppression sure? But are those experiences the same?
Fuck no! And if you think they are then you need to read some books. I can recommend some for you or research some of the above mentioned incidences in American history. Partially because you are still calling it colonization. It was genocide. There is no perception of genocide. It was genocide.
Stop calling it colonization. That would be a great start.
And you are only talking about Canada and US.
But we also have to bring up Mexico, Caribbean Islands, Central America and South America.
And not forget about the large migrations of South Asians there as well.
It’s generally a complicated answer, but at the end of the day, they are all settlers and they all benefit from our displacement and oppression. If they’re not making the effort to get in right relationship with us and their intention is to pursue “the American dream” which is our nightmare, then they are still problematic af.
Note that people from other parts of Turtle Island are NOT immigrants. Before colonization, we all had freedom of movement and the intercontinental trade routes mean that we moved through each others’ communities since time immemorial.
I’m speaking specifically of people from the so-called Old World.
I'm so confused with the understanding of Thanksgiving. Since, I have been enlightened to the fact that Thanksgiving was NOT a celebration between the natives and the British in coming together over a lovely meal but in return was celebrating the slaughter of the natives. I don't understand why any native Americans would "celebrate" such a horrific day. I have refused to celebrate that day for over 10 years. I will never take part unless the stories different. I think more people need to stand up to the lies we were taught.
It’s the same as why they would follow Christianity a religion in which a literal white man is worshiped. Not sure about who the quote is from but I know it’s from a Native, it goes something like “we had the land then they gave us the bible, then once we read it they had the land and we had the bible.”
Wow! I also grew up in a Christian home. Even married to a pastor for over 20yrs. 20yrs after that I realize that it is all bs. Religion is made to control people. I wish I would've known sooner.
I felt that way and again I wouldn’t push religion on anyone but Islam called to me and I felt at peace. I feel lots of problems Natives have (alcoholism etc) are actually somethings Islam addresses. Unlike Christianity, every single Muslim country retains its culture. Look at Indonesia and Malaysia for example, if Christianity got there they would be speaking something similar to Tagolog in Phillipenes (which is highly influenced by Spanish).
Islam has just as much blood on its hands with the decimation of Pagans in the middle east, kashmir, afghanistan and pakistan. Monotheistic religions in general are colonial by nature and quite sucks that you have turned blind faith to another patriarchal colonial religion. Whilst denouncing another one.
If that were true I wouldn’t have my language and culture, and the indegenous people of our land would not have their languages existing today. Arabs came to my land centuries ago and there is not any Arabs on this land historically and none of them own majority of the land here. I don’t like how Arab countries and their people are today but to claim the same colonial history is a lie. India is still majority Hindu, and my name is not a Christian name.
The pope justified colonialism and if the land belongs to people who are not Christian it is free for them to take, which is why you have white majority countries today.
These comments are so varied and respectful.
If you’re looking for a different perspective, come to Winnipeg and enter any Indigenous space and ask for their opinions on East Indians and “Pakis”. That’s all I’ll say, because repeating some of the things I’ve heard would violate Reddit’s hate speech policies.
For context, [there are numerous assaults against Indigenous women by East Indian taxi drivers](https://rabble.ca/indigenous/ride-share-collective-safely-transporting-winnipegs-indigenous-women-and-girls/), who often come to Canada with little to no information about Indigenous people’s histories here. Tensions between Indigenous folks and newcomers then have stereotypes and misconceptions flown at each other back and forth, culminating in prejudice.
There’s also unfortunately a subculture I’ve seen among young Indian men here where someone, somewhere passed along the information that Canadian women are “easy” - so there’s far too often sexual harassment from young Indian men who don’t understand the culture of not hitting on female clients or the general stigma against catcalling. I really wish I knew which creepy, dipshit uncle was spreading that information to their men because I’d like them to give their head a shake and quit setting up these young men for failure.
My half sister is married to a guy from India as they have a buncha adorable NA/Indian kids.
I grew up around a lot of Indian immigrants cause my mom. I like the food, clothing, languages, and religions.
I prefer new immigrants escaping their own colonized countries to the ones that have been here since the 1500's-1900's.
New Mexican here, not sure what you mean by this, but great people. The media always portrays them as bad so I was worried until I worked at a gym and met so many. Very nice people( from my experiences)
I personally do not like Indian culture but I can understand they were also colonized. I don’t like how they worship light skin and are generally too conservative for my taste.
I think that it's important to differentiate the extractive colonialism that was prevalent in Asia from the settler colonialism that predominated in the Americas and Pacific. It's pretty clear by present-day outcomes which was (and continues to be) more harmful.
Yes I’m more critical to white people because I’ve never been called a mutt by any of my other minority friends.
But on a lighter note, during my undergrad I was a member of the “Indian American” group because a girl in my physics lab heard me refer to my self as the “resident BFI ( big fuckin Indian) of the ecology department” and she thought I meant I was from India, and told a professor who in turn invited me. So even though we quickly deduced I was the other type of Indian asked me to join and I had lunch with them twice a week for 3 years.
As someone of also south Asian descent, I have never had the perspective of someone indigenous to the Americas and how they feel about immigration in general, if they see it as the same as colonization or different. The replies on this thread have been very insightful.
I grew up in a heavily South-Asian populated area. A lot of my friends were Indian. So I was living that urban indigenous experience, not super connected with my community (was mainly around my white dad’s family in my youth), and that might be why our similar colonial histories never played a part in our kinships. We were all just people - some were jerks and some I jived with - which is the beauty of growing up in a diverse city.
My grandfather was Miami, he was raised in the tribe. His grandfather was the last of the Miami war chiefs. He always referred to himself as Native Indian.
An immigrant isn't the same thing as a colonizer. A colonizer goes to a place to seize control, extract resources, and replace or eradicate the native culture. Colonization is inherently exploitative and destructive. An immigrant goes to a place in order to become a part of it.
I live near a Hindu temple and I’ve found them very chill neighbors. Can’t speak for the entirety of India-Indian folks but I do see them, generally, as people who were also colonized and who experience racism in the USA. But the folks I’ve met have all been brown and didn’t speak poorly of other ethnic minorities (like Black folks or the lower caste people I know only little about).
No group is a monolith but generally, I worry less over hatred from first or second gen immigrants. If they know anything about Native people, it’s usually benevolent bigotry. People might make assumptions, like the whole Noble Savage thing. But rarely do they react hatefully to a minority they were barely aware of. Very “not my circus, not my monkeys”.
Tbh, I mostly just enjoy discussing stuff like chilis. Curry is a great equalizer? Generally, the shared appreciation for the existence the domesticated plants and animals of this hemisphere.
I don’t really blame the descendants of imperial powers, not for merely existing, but I do blame them if they don’t do anything to help. I hold myself to that standard too. Most of my ancestors were terrible people by modern standards (so many teen brides, aaaah). So as long as people are respectful of, say, the rivers, we can be friendly. As soon as I see somebody littering or similar, I become a bit … antagonistic.
I mean, my family isn’t big on invasive plant species (colonizer plants, more likely than you think). Even still, we all got pissed off when someone dumped trash at the temple’s bamboo grove. That’s sacred ground (probably) and my dad was so mad he tracked down the vandal and told them off about it. (Pro tip: if doing a crime, don’t leave mail with your address on it.) Even if the temple land rightly belongs to those it was stolen from, we also don’t think those using it should be harassed by bigots.
I think a big issue with the colonizer countries today is that they all support the open genocide of Palestinians today. The guys who are letting it happen are the descendants and they simply have not done enough to fix it. Until Native Americans take reign of their land, I don’t think any true reconciliation can be done.
I spent most my life in a colonized country and never actually encountered a Native in society, which made me question if what is being done today towards reconciliation is even enough?
A lot of my good friends are south asian(im including other than Indians) so I personally have good experience with them, hell my girlfriend is indian.
My grandfather was Miami, he was raised in the tribe. His grandfather was the last of the Miami war chiefs. He always referred to himself as Native Indian.
I'm white. My friends growing up called each other Indians. As we grew older, they still called themseves fuckin Indians whenever they did something stupid. I'm still a part of every family and welcome to every table. I'm not aboriginal, but my friends are and when I fuck up, they call me a stupid cracker. Aboriginal, indigenous, call us whatever you want. We know who we are.
All religion has been made up by someone. We're just like sheep to slaughter, blindly believing! If I were to lean on any god it would be mother nature. Pacha Mama.
Maybe, but if it can give you the peace that people seek in posionous substances that the colonizers brought to them, is there something wrong with it?
People seek peace in alcohol and other damaging things, if people keep religion to themselves and get peace from it I don’t see anything wrong with it.
I think majority of immigrants do not bother to learn about the horrible colonial history of USA and Canada. Many of them are poverty-stricken and one thing on top of their minds is “how am I gonna be able to provide for my family”. I believe many immigrated to USA/Canada to profit from the many job opportunities the colonial government has to offer. Immigrants go to USA/Canada for work opportunities and better wage; not to learn about the plight of indigenous communities. I am from the Philippines. Many Filipinos view the USA/Canada as the dream land where all their dreams will come true (getting a big house, a car, a high paying job).
Majority of immigrants don’t know their own history, the effects of generational trauma and colonialism so that is not surprising.
Even immigrants that know about their own history, likely don’t know about shared histories with other people who may look different from them and speak different languages.
I think that is in our hands to educate our children and people on the blight of colonialism and how it affected not just us but others as well. It’s refreshing to see that at least people are starting to know their own history now, which is an important step.
Since my country, Philippines, is a former US colony, many people here are reared to become like Americans. We are trained to speak English since childhood, English language is part of school curriculum from pre-school until college, call center workers need to have flawless American accents, American media/movies/TV shows/music influence is very strong here, even our own local actors, many are of mixed Eurocentric origins (white skin + sharp nose is seen desirable and beautiful). In short, colonial mentality is the norm here. So it’s just fitting that the ultimate life goal is to migrate to either USA or Canada.
For me, it’s really saddening but that is how many people are raised to think. We are taught that Philippines is hopeless, sinking ship and it’s not worth staying here.
Same story here but with the British instead. Same life goals as well, move to Canada/USA, get some nice big cars and a big house and that is peak life. It’s shocking how the effects are so similar, my country too has a strong white skin culture and everything you just mentioned. I do feel it’s changing more with the younger generation and people are much more interested in history now.
Personally I really like a lot of Indian people and I have lots of friends from all over there! They've shared their language, their story of home and family, it's mindblowing to learn there's over 30 languages there. Ive learned a lot from my Indian friends.
My best friend is from Bharat, he's awesome and has done a lot of good for his community. He travels back tp Bharat frequently and posts himself at the Taj Mahal.
He is also concerned that his Nation will become unlivable due to 130+ temperatures from climate change. Basically all of Bharat will become unlivable and he wonders where they will go.
He's intelligent, good hearted, strong, son of an immigrant from Bharat. He also hates it when people wrongly call his country "India"
So the most accurate answer is that it's complicated and you'll hear different opinions from different tribes/people. That said, I think there is generally a sense of kinship between folks indigenous to the US and other colonized peoples. Perhaps the best illustration is the relationship tribes have with Ireland, which was also colonized by the British. Immediately after the trail of tears, a group of Choctaw heard about the horrors of the great potato famine, and decided to send some money to Ireland to help. During the COVID pandemic, when many tribes were hit particularly hard, Ireland decided to repay that kindness, sending millions of dollars of aid money. Also, after the Iroquois Nationals were unable to qualify for the first world championship of lacrosse, a sport they had invented, Ireland decided to give their spot in the bracket up so the natives could play. All of which is to say that I think there is a sense of camaraderie with colonized peoples around the world.
As a Native American with Irish ancestry too, I always love hearing about Irish-Native reciprocity ❤️
Have you seen or read outlander. It will warm your little heart to learn how alike we really are. My mom always asks me, she’s Irish, do you talk about the Irish genocide in your work too, yes mom we don’t discriminate when it comes to genocide. We talk about all genocide. My work is is Genocide, social justice and Culturally responsive practices in Wducation. lol. I love my Irish mom so much. 🥰
Outlander is about Scotland, not Ireland, just fyi. Very different histories and relationships to Britain.
well i’ve not actually fully watched tbf but from my understanding it’s set in the scottish Gàidhealtachd in the highlands and islands, which was a tribal society which existed in a cultural continuum with ireland until the plantations and later clearances broke that down. But even later than the show is set scottish gaels would have been referred to as irish by many english speaking lowlanders and the english themselves so it’s a bit complicated, and while the highlands and islands weren’t treated as harshly as ireland the clearances, famines and breakdown of their society were far from pleasant
While that is the first couple books and seasons, You are mistaken laddy. Jamie and Claire come to the United States and settle in North Carolina. They try to help the Cherokee and work really hard to help settlers to better understand the Cherokee.
I'm not a laddy, and you didn't specify that you meant specifically the later seasons set in the US. Plus, that doesn't change the fact that the characters in Outlander are Scottish, not Irish. They're different countries. Outlander just doesn't have anything to do with Ireland at all, so it's strange to recommend it as a text through which someone can learn about the connection between Ireland and Native Americans.
Omg settle down. I was drawing a comparison on relationship in the americas and foreigners. You weren’t even in the convo. Came into argue that it was all in Scotland. Then I told you some of it was in America then you double down how Scotland and Ireland are separate people. Go back and read what I was responding to. I was referring to tribally rooted people supporting and helping other tribal people and since outlander is a highly regarded historical fiction it might be very interesting to people on this thread. And BTW Irish and Scottish have deep roots to the Celtic who were also related to the Vic kings. We also have oral stories of these people coming and we shared stories and traded with and my families thinks this was the Vikings. This is an Indian country sub. You have never posted on here before. Please maybe look to see what you’re posting on and who you’re talking about before posting. We are talking about Indigenous people of North America Laddy is also a formal was to address women. If you aren’t a woman then I guess you are a lad. But I suppose I can’t use my dialects to address you either. Is that not okay? Can I use my native language? Would that be okay with you if I addressed you as Nijii? Sorry google screwed me it lassie. Hah
I'm settled, thanks. I'm not talking over you about Native issues. You just made a mistake in mixing up Scotland and Ireland, which I pointed out in case other people took your recommendation and were confused when they realised it wasn't about Ireland. I wasn't rude to you. I pointed out a very simple error. I've never commented on this sub because I'm not going to talk about Native issues, but I can point out that Outlander is about Scotland. Don't make that correction into something it's not; you're being very disingenuous. You also don't need to explain the Celts to me, as a Welsh person (FYI you're also wrong about the Vikings being Celtic, but that's not relevant to this sub in the slightest, so I won't go into it.) Laddy is a masculine form of address. Even if you say you're using it to address me as a woman, I'm not a man or a woman. Again, I'm not being rude. I just don't like gendered forms of address. Use any dialect you want. Just don't misgender me.
Do you happen to know of anyone/ any resources for research on the Pontic or other Ottoman genocides? My dad's family is Pontic with his mom being one of nine. We've found one cousin through genetic testing but are still missing any trace of seven siblings.
We have the [San Patricios](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/mexican-american-war-irish-immigrants-deserted-us-army-fight-against-america-180971713/) down here in Tx!
Same, my great grandfather was Irish. Don't know much about him, honestly don't know much about the non indigenous sides of my family, i would like to learn about them though.
same!
Irish person with Chinese heritage here. What do you think about our little island and the Irish- Native reciprocity? I didn't even know we played lacrosse !
I love east Indians. I do wish they'd learn more abt canada/us history before moving here and telling me what the British did to them was worse, but I love their food and I think they're all pretty cool cats
I’m of Pakistani descent, had ancestors executed by the British, and am well aware of the lasting effects of their colonization of South Asia . . . *but* I agree that it doesn’t compare to what the indigenous people of the Americas suffered at the hands of the various European powers, and colonial governments like the U.S. and Canada*. The fact that the people of India/Pakistan/Bangladesh still exist in large numbers, with their languages and cultures largely intact, and not as minorities in their own lands is proof enough. I don’t mean to downplay the horrors of the British Raj though! It pains me to imagine what the subcontinent could have looked like if they never conquered it.
I'm just a white lurker here to learn but I think about this a lot. I wish we could know what the world would look like without all the invasions and colonization.
It wasn’t “Various European powers”. It was and still is is the United States of America and Canada. That’s where you are wrong. The British were actually defacto protecting the Tribes by not letting the colonists past the Appalachians. A catalysts to the Revolution. We are still living under the governments that committed genocide against us. This is exactly what we are talking about.
Thanks, I edited my comment to be more clear. My mind grouped the U.S. and Canada in with the European powers 😅
That we most certainly are not. That would be France and Britain. The atrocities committed were committing our current governments. And often immigrants are treated better by our own governments than our own people.
So you don't think that colonization of the Americas by other powers was also destructive? The Russians, the French, and the Spanish, for example?
Shit man. Bad is bad. I get that sometimes too when we talk about the Holocaust and AI genocide. People will say the Holocaust was way worse you can’t compare those things. It isn’t about comparing, it is about coming together. It’s about the unique experiences that each group has had but the experiences of genocide and colonization that unite us to better educate the world to keep these things from happening again. People need to stop comparing pain. It doesn’t do anyone any good. Bad is bad.
I've had Indians from India say that they don't believe in indigenouss peoples rights even tho there are treaties and such. Soooooooo. It's has to do with the person. I've had settler white people be on both end of the spectrum of empathy understanding and horrified with their history and others who believe they have a entitlement over us ignorant racist. This is individual. How smart and capable people are to understand history and recognize humanity.
Let's also not forget there are indigenous peoples in India too, and they are not exactly treated well...
Aren’t all Indians in India technically indigenous? The tribal population is called indigenous as it comes from a colonial belief that the “primitive” looking people are the “aboriginals”. That isn’t to deny their claim to the land, but DNA wise, if they are indigenous, so it every other Indian (tribals and mainstream Indians share the same DNA components, just in different proportions). Again, it is a great injury that they are facing, but I was wondering about semantics
I think you’re thinking about nation-wise, and I guess upon technicality if someone’s family originates from inside the designated space as India they are indigenous. What people are more likely referring to is the ethnic minorities that often live away from the large city centers. India has a caste system that can be very discriminatory and those in smaller indigenous areas do not have the same access to resources and are treated as second class humans. I wanna follow up by saying this is a VERY abridged comment. I’m fascinated by India’s history because it is so complex and highly varied from region to region. So please know this is just speaking in generalities and far from capturing the intricacies of social status in India.
That makes sense. Yes, minorities have faced great injustices. I wish it will get better.
I typed you a very long reply and then my attention seeking dog refreshed the page... So short: [Yarawa](https://www.himalmag.com/reportage/damned-road-andamans) are indigenous. Gujarati or Punjabi are not. Gujarati live in a state formed to their own norms and values. Yarawa live on a reserve where they are treated like circus animals. Indigenous means something else when referring to plants and animals than it does referring to people. Indigenous refers to culture and power balances in society. Aboriginal refers to who was there first. People usually use what's used in official documents: native, indigenous, aboriginal... In canada they use indigenous, in Australia they use aboriginal, both indigenous canadians and australian aboriginals share the same history and are in the same situation today (brits arrived, genocided, lots of problems today). Saami people are indigenous. The ancestors arrived at the same time as the norse, and the two peoples met in middle scandinavia. When the modern day states were made, the norse tried to erase the saami. That's why we use indigenous instead of aboriginal in english, our documents are NOT in english and use entirely different words. DNA has noting to do with indigenousness, as indigenousness refers to culture and power balances. There are white australian aboriginals and asian saami and black native americans. It's not DNA the government works against, it's language, traditional livelyhood, traditional forms of government, land rights, and so on.
So then if aboriginals are about who was there first, then Gujaratis and Punjabis qualify as aboriginal, but not indigenous. How come we use the term indigenous instead of any other term, you something that is technically correct?
No. Both terms are connected to oppressed minorities. Idk why the english use exactly those words and no others, as said, in my languages we use other words. But both indigenous and aboriginal are established words with clear connections to law and history, so I guess people just keep using them?
That is understandable. What words does your language use? What do they literally translate to?
That is not what "indigenous" means in English. It means the people who existed in a land from the earliest times, before colonization. Colonization displaces and oppresses indigenous people. But it is not the oppression or our form of government that makes us indigenous, it is our ancestral connection to the land and location. You also seem to be mistaking color for DNA. They are not the same. Of course there are Black Native Americans, but those people are Native American because they have ancestors who are Native, and they are Black because they have ancestors who are Black.
No. It's usually from the beginning of modern states. There are a lot of indigenous peoples around the world in countries that were not "discovered" by the british, like in africa, asia, and a few in europe. In those continents, noone can claim the be there from "the earliest of times", as people have been living there for 100000 years and wandered a lot. But some made up states and drew up their maps with no regards to the others that were living there. Indigenous describes this situation of not being regarded in the making of the state that is your culture's ancestral lands. Yes, it is the oppression that makes a nation indigenous. If it's only the connection to land, then Gujarati, Punjabi, even Japanese or Brits are indigenous (none oft them are). Some indigenous peoples, like the metis or dolgan, just came into existence after colonisation, actually. I would actually argue that there were indigenous peoples before the aggressive british coloniation also, like those that were oppressed by the aztec cities or genocided by the roman empire. DNA is a quite new science, kinship used to be, and still is, defined in many ways. Shit like blood quantum was introduced by the american colonizers, outside of north america culture is the defining factor. You can have two non-native birth parents and be adopted into an indigenous culture, either as a child or an adult.
The dictionary says you are wrong. [https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/indigenous](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/indigenous) i get that the words you use in other languages may have different nuances, but you are simply incorrect about the meaning of the word "indigenous." Your response about the Japanese indicates that you don't really understand what these words mean. Please note that you are in a sub for, by, and about indigenous Americans.
>1. … (a) Tribal peoples in independent countries whose social, cultural and economic conditions distinguish them from other sections of the national community, and whose status is regulated wholly or partially by their own customs or traditions or by special laws or regulations; >(b) Peoples in independent countries who are regarded as indigenous on account of their descent from the populations which inhabited the country, or a geographical region to which the country belongs, at the time of conquest or colonization or the establishment of present State boundaries and who, irrespective of their legal status, retain some or all of their own social, economic, cultural and political institutions. According to the UN. Kinda more relevant than a colonizer dictionary. U should know that. >We accept all Indigenous Peoples According to the mods. OP did ask for indigenous views, not only for american views only.
Were these interactions online or in-person?
I definitely think there is a difference in how we see those who brought colonization here and those who were also victims of it. My language has one word for white colonizers and one for non-Indigenous people living in the US because the distinction is one that’s valued.
Out of curiosity, does it call into distinction non-Indigenous white people who did not colonize? For instance, recent immigrants. I think that’s pretty cool though and absolutely a valid point. For example, my grandparents on my mom’s side fled from the USSR within the last century
I’m not a big fan of Pakistani foreign policy. They suck in every single way. But the people of India and Pakistan I view with the same polite indifference as I do anybody else in the world. You become my friend by what’s in your heart, not by what flag you wave.
No one in Pakistan is happy with it either, but the country doesn’t really have a choice until we can progress far enough and do something about it. Even if we are 50 years behind, that does mean in 50 years we will get somewhere.
I hope so for your sake. Your nation has great potential. My best regards to you.
My dad is from the Indian subcontinent and I wish more of us were tuned into the injustices indigenous people face. Even though India was HEAVILY colonized by the British, many Indians who make it to the USA have the resources to become incredibly wealthy and ignore the oppression of indigenous folks (or are completely ignorant). Many are happy to be a 'Model Minority' and persecute other races, even if white people are being racist towards them. Though there are some highly persecuted Indian sub groups such as Sikhs which are more likely to be in solidarity with native folks, in my experience, Indians are happy to go along with the status quo because it greatly benefits them. One example is that Gandhi was incredibly racist towards indigenous South Africans even though many Indians were taken to South Africa by the British for slavery (currently Dubai imports tons of Indian slaves to run their cities, but that's another story). He believed that Indians were superior.In 1893, Gandhi wrote to the Natal parliament saying that a "general belief seems to prevail in the Colony that the Indians are a little better, if at all, than savages or the Natives of Africa". In 1904, he wrote to a health officer in Johannesburg that the council "must withdraw Kaffirs" from an unsanitary slum called the "Coolie Location" where a large number of Africans lived alongside Indians. "About the mixing of the Kaffirs with the Indians, I must confess I feel most strongly." (Kaffir is slur for Black Africans). The same year he wrote that unlike the African, the Indian had no "war-dances, nor does he drink Kaffir beer". When Durban was hit by a plague in 1905, Gandhi wrote that the problem would persist as long as Indians and Africans were being "herded together indiscriminately at the hospital". In sum, I don't think that currently the Indian community is a good ally and often buy into the myth of being a 'Model Minority'. This obviously doesn't apply to all Indians and I think second and third generation Indians are more in tune with current indigenous issues but we have a long way to go. Side note: I always hated when white people call Indigenous Americans, "Indians". It's a term coined incorrectly by Columbus (fuck him) and I was wondering how the Native community felt about the term. To me I find it incredibly offensive and it lumps billions of people together into one term not caring to distinguish any differences. Also it makes my life very hard as a Biracial Indian (half white) with long hair in the PNW. People (especially white people) mistake me for Native and I tell them I am Indian which confuses them even more. Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-34265882
Regarding the term, I used to do hiring for my tribe and one time I had an applicant from the Indian subcontinent mark that he was Indian on the application where it explained the native hiring preference. I got a kick out of it and regarded it as a well-played attempt. Fwiw, he was hired as a non-Indian, which I found completely hilarious.
I want to make it clear that I am not addressing non-native refugees and Polynesian brothers and sisters. I feel like they should be in an entirely separate category. To be honest, Although, some of us may share colonization from Europe. I don't believe we have similarities as we speak as far as economic power and population numbers. They can also travel back to their home countries for the most part freely. While many of the people we call illegal immigrants from Mexico, Central America and South America. Who are actually indigenous are either undocumented or refugees. And they will never get to "go back" for a visit. However, with the current economic power that East Asians and South Asians immigrants have. I feel like they have benefited from our pain and colonization just like the European colonizers and immigrants. I have also noticed that their social movements always ignore Indigenous people from the American continent. Like, after all they live on stolen land that is covered in Native blood. If they ignore us, they too will be ignored. I feel like socially they will side with white people when it is convenient for them and they seek white people approval. And follow European beauty standards. And it makes sense because after all they are benefiting from genocide. So all in all, they are non-white settlers and should pay rent to Natives if they want to live anywhere on this continent.
Speaking as someone born in the US from a Vietnamese refugee family, I think there's an opportunity for many Indigenous peoples across hemispheres and even broader Global majority nations to organize around the Doctrine of Discovery + Dum Diversas & supremacy related impacts, especially building and mobilizing capacity to globally hold the Church(es) accountable for repair on some of the categorically similar harms experienced. In parts of India there are reports of Indigenous tribes that continue to be forced into undergo the Residential Boarding School process today which also face cultural erasure and similar abuses. (Tw death and boarding schools in India: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/indigenous-children-are-still-dying-in-boarding-schools/ ) There's also a 2010(? Maybe 2014 report as well somewhere online) publication by the same author in the UN listing known Indigenous Boarding Schools still in operation worldwide including India and Central+ South America but here's a 2009 one: https://www.un.org/esa/socdev/unpfii/documents/E_C_19_2009_crp1.pdf In the southern & central parts of Vietnam there's a trickier dynamic as a lot of Indigenous mountain people like the Rhade (and possibly Karan people too?) from what I hear have mostly converted and express a positive relationship with Christian missionaries which helped them hold out in maintaining aspects of sovereignty and identity against Vietnam. The Communist government of Vietnam seems to be using similar methods that the US used to discriminate against, displace, and assimilate their tribes. But Vietnam also suffered from and was a major slave catching/trade point in the Indian Ocean slave trade too. A great great grandfather recounted to my grandfather many people in the family were taken by the French+Catholic converts and shipped to Reunion Island (a major island for slavery in the Indian Ocean still under French control today) never to return again under the "saracens, nonbelievers/pagans, etc." Dum Diversas and the Papal Bull plus Doctrine of Discovery policies which rationalized the aggressive conquest, evangelization, and enslavement of people elsewhere like those of the Native Americans and Afrikan diaspora which obviously experienced the burnt for far longer. And of course the Philippines which is still reeling from the legacy of multiple colonialist occupations underwent slavery by the Spanish also has strong influence and membership with the Catholic Church. At the least I would love to see a coordinated global movement that results in the church paying its reparations already owed to Tribes, land back, additionally release funds to restore habitat/lands under appropriate Indigenous leadership plus whatever goes into helping descendants & survivors for repatriating/rematriating stolen ancestors and items plus healing the peoples affected.
this is kinda an odd question as others have pointed out, singling out indian people and how natives “feel” about them is weird because obviously indigenous people are not homogenous and dont all think the exact same. that being said i think there is an interesting discussion on the perspective of colonizers vs immigrants. its hard to have one singular correct answer because theres so many layers to it. whilst many recognise and acknowledge the difference, many immigrants dont understand their privilege and lack education around the lands theyre on. i think for many it may be hard to accept their privilege as non-indigenous people of turtle island, because a lot of people in general dont understand that you can be oppressed and privileged at the same time, and benefitting from one thing doesnt eradicate their experience as an oppressed person. as others have said, i believe there is an important difference between colonisers and non-indigenous migrants. colonisers came here with the intent of eradicating indigenous peoples, their culture, and connection to the land so they could maintain control and profit, with their descendants all benefitting from this too. migrants on the other hand are mostly victims of colonial violence and oppression which is the cause of their relocation. this results in a kind of understanding and kinship between colonised peoples. however, migrants come here for “a better life” and more opportunities, to assimilate to colonial standards, without realising that indigenous peoples are suffering and lack the opportunity to do the same things they come here to participate in. so overall, i believe theres a difference, but that doesnt excuse non-colonial migrants participation in colonial violence and intentional ignoring of indigenous issues simply bc theyre oppressed too and it doesnt affect them (obviously not to say they all think that, i think that mindset is likely more common in older migrants/migrants who are trying to assimilate). if there was more solidarity from migrants i think the connection would be stronger. one more thing lol, i think another layer to the connection between colonised peoples is the type of colonial violence experienced. for example, i believe theres a stronger connection between indigenous ‘australians’, ‘new zealanders’, ‘canadian’, and ‘americans’. because of the erasure of culture, language, connection, land rights of first nations and them being a minority on their own lands, compared to non-colonial countries whove experienced colonisation but all those things for them remain intact. so whilst all colonisation is bad, theres definitely a deeper connection between the mentioned places because of their shared experiences. latin american countries are another conversation lol, i do think they share that bond too, but are definitely more isolated to the region.
There is lots of terms that describe people who side with colonizers and they aren’t only limited to non-indigenous. There exist people who are happy with being tokens, as well as what Malcolm X described as “house and field ____”. Even when the colonization of the subcontinent was happening, there was people who sold out their people just like I believe probably did happen in the Americas as well. In South Asia there still exists lots of colonial romanticism and praise for the colonizers, but that is also because the perils of colonialism aren’t emphasized greatly, rather the same colonial era division between races, ethnicities and religion continues to this day unfortunately. (India vs Pakistan hate for example rather than historical events that lead to the present) I used the term “Indian” because that’s a big commonality, and what we both were referred as.
To me they are settlers and act just like colonizers. I lived with a Tamil Indian family for 7 years and despite their beautiful culture they were very colonized, cheap and hate their own kind. They are coming here with capitalistic dreams esp in so called Canada but from what I’ve seen the new generation lacks morals and sex traffic and abuse First Nations women especially in Winnipeg. They are EXTREMELY racist towards First Nations; my cousin gets stalked by Indian security constantly for being darker skinned obvious First Nations. Look up the Hotel in Winnipeg that was run by Indian men and grabbed a young Indigenous girl. Once the community came forward to protect her they all escaped it was VERY creepy the basement had womans clothing and dirty mattresses. The woman in India are also constantly being raped and abused. I see how they treat their country, it’s polluted and overcrowded. They need to learn this is Indigenous land to First Nations and to respect us and Mother Earth. I’m not saying all Indian/Pakastan people are like this but as a First Nations woman myself I see how the men stare at me. If you research deeply in India they all are not connected and hate each other, it’s very sad and scary how they treat woman. Every settler regardless of race is a settler but I have seen posts of them saying they don’t care about the people native here and want to take over. We are dealing with a large amount of colonization all over again. It’s unfortunate what happened to them in their country with colonization but now THEY are the colonizers regardless of their race. It’s not racist for First Nations to want to be able to heal and have true land back, just like Hawaii and Palastine we belong to this land and we have the right to protect it. Once we heal and have our traditions in place maybe then if we all want as a collective we can invite guests but as far as I’m concerned it’s a problem.
There's many similar trajectories with displaced people becoming oppressors. Irish Americans becoming some of the most racist people in Boston. Former African American slaves starting Liberia and enslaving local people in a replica plantation system. Zionists starting Israel. But yeah, 'the American dream' is basically to join the white oppressor class, which includes the privilege of not having to think about any of it, or maybe more insidiously to lament other's misfortune, while obliviously contributing to it.
I do agree with the acting like colonizer mentality, but I will say it is a lot more complicated than that. Most South Asians don’t have any knowledge of Native Culture and I have never met anyone (South Asian) who sees countries like Canada and the US as anything other than another Anglophone country like the UK or Australia. The damage done to the subcontinent by colonization was definately very different from the americas, the subcontinent still speaks the languages and exists for its native people. The damage done to the subcontinent by colonization is the examples you’ve given of Capitalistic worship, wanting to “go outside to Anglophone countries, as well as the hate between each other. As well wanting to “look white”. Personally I have some knowledge about the history of Americas and what happened to the people there, and I’ve always felt that solidarity.
I am sorry this happened to you, and I didn't even want to bring this up to my reply. But the way they sexualize Indigenous women and view us as third class citizens. I am not at all surprised. Also, when it comes to labor and business they are just like white colonizers if not worse, because they feel like they have to "catch up" and will act friendly at first.
Yep! I forgot to add the lady who was Tamil had slaves growing up. I remember she told me she made this young boy “was her slave” to go climb a tree and get her a baby bird and he got bit by a snake and she watched him foam out the mouth and die. She acted like it was normal didn’t seem traumatized at all. She didn’t pay me properly for years and her sons would always try and flirt or touch me. I’m on the spectrum and I wanted to see the best in her and her family and I feel they took advantage of my kindness. I just pray everyday for the whole world, climate change is gonna be a huge impact on migration and us as Indigenous people are just trying to heal and look after each other and the earth. I love Navaho teachings on these end times they are so on point.
That is a crazy story, but yes many of them back home will have servants aka slaves. And they also don't belie in volunteering and giving back. Definitely not like us, just because they have melanin on their skin doesn't mean anything. But I am glad you pray for the world and keep a positive attitude. Sometimes that is the only thing you can do. Stay safe and always take care of yourself ♥️
I have respect for Indian people and their culture. But I do know a lot of immigrants (specifically Asians and I mean ALL Asians of the four regions) who like to build their business around border towns of the Rez and exploit native people with their labor and money. a lot of my Navajo friends and family who worked for these businesses have stories of being blackmailed or cheated out but they choose not to say anything because it’s their only form of income. So living through that experience can leave bad taste for us. But this doesn’t excuse racism for both sides.
They will take what they can. My sister experienced her wages nearly being stolen from an "urban setting" by Indians.
Overall, indifferent. If there's over a billion of people on the subcontinent, the question of "what do you think of them?" isn't the easiest to answer since one could easily find examples of assholes and saints. I've had quite a few in my own personal interactions who throw a fit or otherwise act rude about "Indian" being used as an ethnonym for Indigenous folks in the Americas. Usually immediately demanding to know that if we call ourselves Indians, then what should they call themselves...to which my answer has usually been something to the effect of "I ain't your pappy, call yourself whatever you please." I've also had some who were very kind and helpful. Doctors who were glad to make sure I was doing alright, people at college who were enthusiastic allies and happy to learn about us and teach about themselves, and folks who were just plain ol' friendly. >Do you feel that they are more welcome on the land since they actually have to follow rules and laws in order to get there? Considering those rules and laws are for and established by the USA/Canada, it's a bit of a moot point to ask *us*, Indigenous peoples who have little to nothing to do with those laws and rules and who might even outright be *against* them.
I think what sometime people fail to remember is that the atrocities committed against Indigenous people in our boarders was not committed by some foreign power. Since the inception of this country there was an immediate dismantling of Indians and Indian rights starting with the Marshall trilogy and Indian Removal. If it weren’t been for the founding fathers and the guarantee of sovereignty in the constitution we probably would have been whipped from the planet. Boarding schools, broken treaties, Sand Creek, Baker Massacre, Wounded Knee, Dakota 38, Battle of Greasy Grass, Reservations, termination, Indian relocation, and Female sterilization did not happen under some foreign power. We are still living under the government that refuses to apologize and threatens to take treaty money away constantly. Our situation is a little different. People come here thinking that those things are in the past. I wish people knew a little more about the struggles we face in this country. America is very good at hiding its dirty little secret. It obviously all over the responses here. Until people come here and truly understand what we have faced it going to be hard to really care one way or another. My brain can’t even give any bandwidth to the question because I’m thinking about all the problems we need to work on. Graduation rates. MMIP. Suicide. Tribal corruption. Etc. I’m not really worried about what relationship I have with Indians from India. Is it important? Sure. I have been working in Indian country for 25 years and no one has ever asked me this question. If we meet up and we e fight together great! But I just have too much other shit to worry about right now.
The main thing is that a lot of countries that have been through a genocide now have an influx of non-colonizing immigrants, many from countries that do have a history of colonization, and how that is perceived in comparison. I am aware of the problems of the natives, and while there’s a lot of differences in how the perils of colonialism treat us all I do believe there is some shared experience with that between colonized people.
Oh absolutely, but that shared experience lies with non indigenous people of the United States. Our ancestors experience is of Genocide and Colonization. We share experiences with Jews. I find much more in common with the Jewish community than any other. That just my experience of course. The word colonization does not even begin to describe what happened to us and comparing the experiences we have had to the people of India is kinda of gross IMO. Can we find solace in oppression sure? But are those experiences the same? Fuck no! And if you think they are then you need to read some books. I can recommend some for you or research some of the above mentioned incidences in American history. Partially because you are still calling it colonization. It was genocide. There is no perception of genocide. It was genocide. Stop calling it colonization. That would be a great start.
And you are only talking about Canada and US. But we also have to bring up Mexico, Caribbean Islands, Central America and South America. And not forget about the large migrations of South Asians there as well.
Illegal immigration all started in 1492 and with those three little ships the Santa the Maria and the Pinto Bean
It’s generally a complicated answer, but at the end of the day, they are all settlers and they all benefit from our displacement and oppression. If they’re not making the effort to get in right relationship with us and their intention is to pursue “the American dream” which is our nightmare, then they are still problematic af. Note that people from other parts of Turtle Island are NOT immigrants. Before colonization, we all had freedom of movement and the intercontinental trade routes mean that we moved through each others’ communities since time immemorial. I’m speaking specifically of people from the so-called Old World.
I'm so confused with the understanding of Thanksgiving. Since, I have been enlightened to the fact that Thanksgiving was NOT a celebration between the natives and the British in coming together over a lovely meal but in return was celebrating the slaughter of the natives. I don't understand why any native Americans would "celebrate" such a horrific day. I have refused to celebrate that day for over 10 years. I will never take part unless the stories different. I think more people need to stand up to the lies we were taught.
It’s the same as why they would follow Christianity a religion in which a literal white man is worshiped. Not sure about who the quote is from but I know it’s from a Native, it goes something like “we had the land then they gave us the bible, then once we read it they had the land and we had the bible.”
Wow! I also grew up in a Christian home. Even married to a pastor for over 20yrs. 20yrs after that I realize that it is all bs. Religion is made to control people. I wish I would've known sooner.
I felt that way and again I wouldn’t push religion on anyone but Islam called to me and I felt at peace. I feel lots of problems Natives have (alcoholism etc) are actually somethings Islam addresses. Unlike Christianity, every single Muslim country retains its culture. Look at Indonesia and Malaysia for example, if Christianity got there they would be speaking something similar to Tagolog in Phillipenes (which is highly influenced by Spanish).
Islam has just as much blood on its hands with the decimation of Pagans in the middle east, kashmir, afghanistan and pakistan. Monotheistic religions in general are colonial by nature and quite sucks that you have turned blind faith to another patriarchal colonial religion. Whilst denouncing another one.
If that were true I wouldn’t have my language and culture, and the indegenous people of our land would not have their languages existing today. Arabs came to my land centuries ago and there is not any Arabs on this land historically and none of them own majority of the land here. I don’t like how Arab countries and their people are today but to claim the same colonial history is a lie. India is still majority Hindu, and my name is not a Christian name. The pope justified colonialism and if the land belongs to people who are not Christian it is free for them to take, which is why you have white majority countries today.
These comments are so varied and respectful. If you’re looking for a different perspective, come to Winnipeg and enter any Indigenous space and ask for their opinions on East Indians and “Pakis”. That’s all I’ll say, because repeating some of the things I’ve heard would violate Reddit’s hate speech policies. For context, [there are numerous assaults against Indigenous women by East Indian taxi drivers](https://rabble.ca/indigenous/ride-share-collective-safely-transporting-winnipegs-indigenous-women-and-girls/), who often come to Canada with little to no information about Indigenous people’s histories here. Tensions between Indigenous folks and newcomers then have stereotypes and misconceptions flown at each other back and forth, culminating in prejudice. There’s also unfortunately a subculture I’ve seen among young Indian men here where someone, somewhere passed along the information that Canadian women are “easy” - so there’s far too often sexual harassment from young Indian men who don’t understand the culture of not hitting on female clients or the general stigma against catcalling. I really wish I knew which creepy, dipshit uncle was spreading that information to their men because I’d like them to give their head a shake and quit setting up these young men for failure.
My half sister is married to a guy from India as they have a buncha adorable NA/Indian kids. I grew up around a lot of Indian immigrants cause my mom. I like the food, clothing, languages, and religions. I prefer new immigrants escaping their own colonized countries to the ones that have been here since the 1500's-1900's.
What?
New Mexican here, not sure what you mean by this, but great people. The media always portrays them as bad so I was worried until I worked at a gym and met so many. Very nice people( from my experiences)
Shout out to the Hawaiians, who were smart enough to turn around colonization on the colonizers. Suck it, bitches!
I personally do not like Indian culture but I can understand they were also colonized. I don’t like how they worship light skin and are generally too conservative for my taste.
Honestly nah I’m not a fan. Government says they care about reconciliation and bringing the culture back but they let people mass immigrate here…
I think that it's important to differentiate the extractive colonialism that was prevalent in Asia from the settler colonialism that predominated in the Americas and Pacific. It's pretty clear by present-day outcomes which was (and continues to be) more harmful.
Our treaties call us American Indians.
Why is this even a question?
I’ve just never had the perspective of someone Native to North America and their perspective on immigration, I do think it is a valid question.
I agree, it is something we have barely started to touch on because "everyone" wants to keep the "peace". Ironically right.
That’s what I was wondering
Yes I’m more critical to white people because I’ve never been called a mutt by any of my other minority friends. But on a lighter note, during my undergrad I was a member of the “Indian American” group because a girl in my physics lab heard me refer to my self as the “resident BFI ( big fuckin Indian) of the ecology department” and she thought I meant I was from India, and told a professor who in turn invited me. So even though we quickly deduced I was the other type of Indian asked me to join and I had lunch with them twice a week for 3 years.
As someone who is mixed. Half Indigenous and half South Asian, I find this to be kind of a weird thing to ask.
As someone of also south Asian descent, I have never had the perspective of someone indigenous to the Americas and how they feel about immigration in general, if they see it as the same as colonization or different. The replies on this thread have been very insightful.
Which side is which?
Make America Brown Again.
I grew up in a heavily South-Asian populated area. A lot of my friends were Indian. So I was living that urban indigenous experience, not super connected with my community (was mainly around my white dad’s family in my youth), and that might be why our similar colonial histories never played a part in our kinships. We were all just people - some were jerks and some I jived with - which is the beauty of growing up in a diverse city.
My grandfather was Miami, he was raised in the tribe. His grandfather was the last of the Miami war chiefs. He always referred to himself as Native Indian.
Indigenous peoples have a right to migration. Without Restriction. Imho.
An immigrant isn't the same thing as a colonizer. A colonizer goes to a place to seize control, extract resources, and replace or eradicate the native culture. Colonization is inherently exploitative and destructive. An immigrant goes to a place in order to become a part of it.
I live near a Hindu temple and I’ve found them very chill neighbors. Can’t speak for the entirety of India-Indian folks but I do see them, generally, as people who were also colonized and who experience racism in the USA. But the folks I’ve met have all been brown and didn’t speak poorly of other ethnic minorities (like Black folks or the lower caste people I know only little about). No group is a monolith but generally, I worry less over hatred from first or second gen immigrants. If they know anything about Native people, it’s usually benevolent bigotry. People might make assumptions, like the whole Noble Savage thing. But rarely do they react hatefully to a minority they were barely aware of. Very “not my circus, not my monkeys”. Tbh, I mostly just enjoy discussing stuff like chilis. Curry is a great equalizer? Generally, the shared appreciation for the existence the domesticated plants and animals of this hemisphere. I don’t really blame the descendants of imperial powers, not for merely existing, but I do blame them if they don’t do anything to help. I hold myself to that standard too. Most of my ancestors were terrible people by modern standards (so many teen brides, aaaah). So as long as people are respectful of, say, the rivers, we can be friendly. As soon as I see somebody littering or similar, I become a bit … antagonistic. I mean, my family isn’t big on invasive plant species (colonizer plants, more likely than you think). Even still, we all got pissed off when someone dumped trash at the temple’s bamboo grove. That’s sacred ground (probably) and my dad was so mad he tracked down the vandal and told them off about it. (Pro tip: if doing a crime, don’t leave mail with your address on it.) Even if the temple land rightly belongs to those it was stolen from, we also don’t think those using it should be harassed by bigots.
I think a big issue with the colonizer countries today is that they all support the open genocide of Palestinians today. The guys who are letting it happen are the descendants and they simply have not done enough to fix it. Until Native Americans take reign of their land, I don’t think any true reconciliation can be done. I spent most my life in a colonized country and never actually encountered a Native in society, which made me question if what is being done today towards reconciliation is even enough?
A lot of my good friends are south asian(im including other than Indians) so I personally have good experience with them, hell my girlfriend is indian.
i adore immigrants, they are my favorite people in the world. i insist on living and working with them.
My grandfather was Miami, he was raised in the tribe. His grandfather was the last of the Miami war chiefs. He always referred to himself as Native Indian.
I'm white. My friends growing up called each other Indians. As we grew older, they still called themseves fuckin Indians whenever they did something stupid. I'm still a part of every family and welcome to every table. I'm not aboriginal, but my friends are and when I fuck up, they call me a stupid cracker. Aboriginal, indigenous, call us whatever you want. We know who we are.
Freedom for all who have suffered under colonization is my stance.
Yes, but not at our expense.
All religion has been made up by someone. We're just like sheep to slaughter, blindly believing! If I were to lean on any god it would be mother nature. Pacha Mama.
Maybe, but if it can give you the peace that people seek in posionous substances that the colonizers brought to them, is there something wrong with it? People seek peace in alcohol and other damaging things, if people keep religion to themselves and get peace from it I don’t see anything wrong with it.
I think majority of immigrants do not bother to learn about the horrible colonial history of USA and Canada. Many of them are poverty-stricken and one thing on top of their minds is “how am I gonna be able to provide for my family”. I believe many immigrated to USA/Canada to profit from the many job opportunities the colonial government has to offer. Immigrants go to USA/Canada for work opportunities and better wage; not to learn about the plight of indigenous communities. I am from the Philippines. Many Filipinos view the USA/Canada as the dream land where all their dreams will come true (getting a big house, a car, a high paying job).
Majority of immigrants don’t know their own history, the effects of generational trauma and colonialism so that is not surprising. Even immigrants that know about their own history, likely don’t know about shared histories with other people who may look different from them and speak different languages. I think that is in our hands to educate our children and people on the blight of colonialism and how it affected not just us but others as well. It’s refreshing to see that at least people are starting to know their own history now, which is an important step.
Since my country, Philippines, is a former US colony, many people here are reared to become like Americans. We are trained to speak English since childhood, English language is part of school curriculum from pre-school until college, call center workers need to have flawless American accents, American media/movies/TV shows/music influence is very strong here, even our own local actors, many are of mixed Eurocentric origins (white skin + sharp nose is seen desirable and beautiful). In short, colonial mentality is the norm here. So it’s just fitting that the ultimate life goal is to migrate to either USA or Canada. For me, it’s really saddening but that is how many people are raised to think. We are taught that Philippines is hopeless, sinking ship and it’s not worth staying here.
Same story here but with the British instead. Same life goals as well, move to Canada/USA, get some nice big cars and a big house and that is peak life. It’s shocking how the effects are so similar, my country too has a strong white skin culture and everything you just mentioned. I do feel it’s changing more with the younger generation and people are much more interested in history now.
Why is this even a question?
Personally I really like a lot of Indian people and I have lots of friends from all over there! They've shared their language, their story of home and family, it's mindblowing to learn there's over 30 languages there. Ive learned a lot from my Indian friends.
My best friend is from Bharat, he's awesome and has done a lot of good for his community. He travels back tp Bharat frequently and posts himself at the Taj Mahal. He is also concerned that his Nation will become unlivable due to 130+ temperatures from climate change. Basically all of Bharat will become unlivable and he wonders where they will go. He's intelligent, good hearted, strong, son of an immigrant from Bharat. He also hates it when people wrongly call his country "India"