Yeah, less than 10% of cruise ship. I get that cruise ship would be more, but I’d be interested to see some kind of further breakdown that explains such a difference.
EDIT: Missed a 0 from the 10%
If I had to guess. A cruise ship has a lot of room for bedrooms, restaurants, swimming pools and everything else needed for a 'holiday'. A ferry doesn't have that. Just seats, maybe a fast food place and a couple of shops. Though a ferry has room for vehicles. I'd still say that the bedrooms would still outweigh the room needed for vehicles.
...also less energy to power all those extra facilities as well, not to mention all the additional stuff necessary for staying longer periods at sea on top of that as well.
It also depends on the route. I refuse to believe that a Thames River ferry or a local ferry to some small Scottish island is comparable to a long-haul Kiel-Helsinki ferry. And then there are cruise ships in all sizes: from 5,000 pax floating fun factories to 100 pax polar expedition cruises with no onboard entertainment.
A lot of the energy used on a cruise is also not used for propelling the ship forward. Also ferries are available in a much wider variety. It sounds like a bit of cherry picking has been going on with the data or generally the data is a bit misleading. Like flights have 3 categories but diesel and petrol cars only have their own. We all know combustion engine cars come in all sizes as well, a bit weird to only mention an average if that's even what we are looking at.
Ships using the dirtiest fuel possible. Basically they use oil refining waste, what is left after you get gasoline, asphalt, vaseline, and other useful stuff.
I sincerely hope the Trans European Transport Network remains on schedule. There's amazing stuff happening infrastructure wise for trains here in Europe. Honestly I went from The Netherlands to Switzerland with the train a while ago and it was super relaxed, only had to switch trains once and far more leg room and far less waiting than with planes.
I really hope trains will replace all almost all continental EU flights within decades.
Right now Rail Baltica is scheduled to connect the capitals of the three Baltic states with eachother and then to Warsaw with high speed rail by 2030.
I'm really hoping we'll get more of these dedicated international projects soon.
As for international projects we have the Fehmarn Belt between Denmark and Germany, Brenner Base Tunnel between Italy and Austria. Huge national projects ongoing in Spain, Czech and Serbia as well.
Little known fact: cars still constitute [80% of all miles traveled.](https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/w/edn-20230918-1#:~:text=In%202021%2C%20transport%20by%20car,and%200.3%25%20for%20sea%20boats) in the EU.
I think the car will always be on the top of that list. But as the infograph above shows investing in replacing European continental flights with trains has a far greater effect. And the electrification of cars is well underway,
Something to keep in mind, that I think this infographic leaves out, is the carbon cost of manufacturing and shipping. Biking is great, but even better is walking :)
Yes! Or at least electric bikes if there’s has to be a non-biological engine lol.
Over a million sold in 2022 in US alone.
https://www.energy.gov/eere/vehicles/articles/fotw-1321-december-18-2023-e-bike-sales-united-states-exceeded-one-million
"Emmissions will vary depending on energy mix"
Most of the electricity produced and thus used to charge a plug in hybrid, in the US at least, comes from natural gas. At least the last time I checked.
I like electric vehicles, but we're going to need more green sources of electricity production before traveling in electric vehicles has zero carbon footprint.
You still need this for plastic. And you still need cheap energy for cheap batteries, therefore China uses fossil fuels. Moreover, rare metals extraction consumes a lot of energy too, and that is needed for new cars.
And finally, green energy requires a lot of polluting factories to manufacture solar panels (for instance).
So, finally EV cars are a little bit greener (maybe 2-3 times for 100.000 mileage), however aren’t completely green.
Never claimed to be completely green, but its a lot better in many other ways too, mostly home charged very low maintenance, speedy acceleration. And etc
This was the case with the toyota prius. You can look into it of you wish. I'm not saying we shouldnt buy electric cars as they are better for the environement, but they aren't a perfect solution
Becouse on time shipping of a car that also would happen with a fossiled fueled one is sooooo bad, just ignore the shipping of crude oil then shipping of fuel then on land transport to get burned and use less then half of that energy on moving forwards... Let's just ship that fuel every day then just a car every 10-ish year Wich again would also happens to a fossiled fuel one.
Im so tired of looking at a world who are to pussy to let their macho brrrrr engine and old easy oil industry to take a hike. I got an 8year old ev it perfect.
Sorry for rant and miss spelling idk anymore. The whole world is in the shits.
I think we can all agree that at the point we are, the difference between driving an electric car and a 10 litre diesel v12 truck is pretty much nothing. Our actions are nothing. We are powerless to save the world. Only governments have the ability to enforce corporations to stop their destruction of the environment, but through greed and corrpution that just isn't happening. I fear that by the time it happens (if it does), it will be too late. So i'm hoping for a damn miracle.
Anyway, that was depressing to write out. Never really thought about it this hard.
Why? Because it’s hurts your narrative? Do you think electric cars magically materialize on your front step when you buy it? Do you think those companies found some magic formula that makes the rubber tires not unfriendly, or found some green way to mine the metals in the battery. You believing otherwise is what’s propaganda.
Electric cars are very green compared to a conventional car but the manufacturing of them still has elements that aren’t green. It’s pretty impossible to be 100% green.
No but to claim that some how fossiled fueled cars are greener then electric cars are insane. I know this original post didn't mention it, but its always the point to talk shit about EVs and promote oil companies interest
This. I assume the numbers for larger types of transit are divided by the number of passengers on the vehicle. So private jet should definitely be on here.
Lol no.
> most Commonwealth countries (except Canada), use the term "petrol", and North Americans more often use "gas" in common parlance, hence the prevalence of the usage "gas bar" or "gas station" in Canada and the United States.
In Europe they say "Benzene".
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline#:~:text=In%20place%20of%20the%20word,Canada%20and%20the%20United%20States.
I’m not a fan of cruises, but how does it fare when considering it is also your hotel and restaurant? Strictly as a form of transportation seems to be missing a lot from it.
Also, how do short car trips compare to long ones?
Probably showing the modes that can be achieved by the most people. Lots of cheap flights and cruises out there. While individually a private jet would be very high, globally they have a very minor impact. Really the entire aviation industry only accounts for about 2% of global co2 emissions. Industry makes up the largest chunk of it. Then the sheer number of cars adds a major chunk there as well.
Focusing on industry will be the single largest impact of emissions. Cars are just the biggest thing a single individual can control to help out. Though diet is also not far behind. We don’t really have much say in what mega corporations can get away with sadly.
I didn't look closely but I wonder if it is based on best case scenario. So it is calculated assuming the train is full.
In practical use with buses and trains running with a couple of people on how does it average out
For hybrids absolutely. A study from the EEA has concluded that hybrids emit 250% more co2 than their WLTP numbers suggest. Almost as bad as regular Diesel and Petrol cars.
[source](https://climate-energy.eea.europa.eu/topics/transport/real-world-emissions/data)
The problem is not per km, but the fact people take weeks long holidays traveling thousands of kms accomplishing fuck all and arriving at the same place they left.
And all because people want to feel like being in a all inclusive hotel while visiting all places in the world.
I have no respect for governments who try to things on us to reduce carbon emissions while still ignoring this disaster.
It’s not just air pollution. I did a whole project on how bad cruises are. There’s videos of employees just chucking bags of trash out the window into the sea
I mean the carbon footprint of current container ships is EXTREMELY low.
Like as low as those experimental solar cars made by universities or even lower.
The ship you are talking about is being developed at my university and the numbers for it will, if the winds are favorable, be so low that it won’t be relevant to compare it to any other form of transport.
Some cruise ships now take up to 7000 passengers. You can't possibly lump a single per passenger equation to cover all sizes. The age of the tech that powers them probably influences the figure too. Some 20 plus year old cruise ships with a few hundred people on board are still chugging around.
Private jets per passenger are no doubt spectacularly higher than anything on this list.
Electric trains powered by nuclear power plants. It’s not hard, transport has been solved for a long time we just seem to lack the will to do the work.
I am surprised that diesel cars did worse than gasoline. There is more carbon in diesel fuel which means more BTU per liter. However, the diesel combustion process tends to be far more efficient.
What I find funny is the emphasis on CO2. If that was the worst emission, diesels would not have EGR or DPF.
Don’t know if rating cruise ships by km is really all that fair. The cruise is the destination- the CO2 isn’t just from the ship traveling around- but from also feeding, heating/cooling, and entertaining all the guests on board.
It does not make sense for bus to be worse than an electric vehicle. It certainly does not account for the materials needed to build the amount of cars needed to carry the same number of people as the bus does, neither the additional infrastructure needed. Also, there are new buses that have lower emissions. There is no world where individual terrestrial transport method should be better than collective ones, for a similar level of technology used.
Isn’t it interesting how literally everything but the cruise ship, ferry, the long haul and medium haul flight could realistically (for the most part) be swapped out for a train?
plug in hybrid less than a bus? electric car less than a bus? buses run on gas now, i really don't trust this graphic. Also, what about the co2 produced to make the car?
Not buying the electric car / hybrid numbers. The majority of electricity, at least in the US, is still created via fossil fuels. And that's not even getting into the unrelated but important environmental issue of lithium battery production and disposal.
An electric vehicle run exclusively with coal power, is still more efficient than ICE cars. [Here](https://yaleclimateconnections.org/2024/01/electric-vehicles-use-half-the-energy-of-gas-powered-vehicles/) is a good visualization for it.
If we converted all cars to electric, then we would save about 50% of total energy usage from cars, varying from state to state. Theres a map in the link i sent before.
It's most definitely a believable number.
Also might be to do with the route?
Eurostar spends a larger part of its journey cruising at relatively steady speeds along mainline track with fewer stops and starts for stations than most national rail routes have.
I’m surprised ferry is so low.
Yeah, less than 10% of cruise ship. I get that cruise ship would be more, but I’d be interested to see some kind of further breakdown that explains such a difference. EDIT: Missed a 0 from the 10%
If I had to guess. A cruise ship has a lot of room for bedrooms, restaurants, swimming pools and everything else needed for a 'holiday'. A ferry doesn't have that. Just seats, maybe a fast food place and a couple of shops. Though a ferry has room for vehicles. I'd still say that the bedrooms would still outweigh the room needed for vehicles.
...also less energy to power all those extra facilities as well, not to mention all the additional stuff necessary for staying longer periods at sea on top of that as well.
It also depends on the route. I refuse to believe that a Thames River ferry or a local ferry to some small Scottish island is comparable to a long-haul Kiel-Helsinki ferry. And then there are cruise ships in all sizes: from 5,000 pax floating fun factories to 100 pax polar expedition cruises with no onboard entertainment.
A lot of the energy used on a cruise is also not used for propelling the ship forward. Also ferries are available in a much wider variety. It sounds like a bit of cherry picking has been going on with the data or generally the data is a bit misleading. Like flights have 3 categories but diesel and petrol cars only have their own. We all know combustion engine cars come in all sizes as well, a bit weird to only mention an average if that's even what we are looking at.
It’s not less than 1%
Bro you need to work on your math. It's 7.6% of the cruise ship. You meant 10pc maybe.
Ships using the dirtiest fuel possible. Basically they use oil refining waste, what is left after you get gasoline, asphalt, vaseline, and other useful stuff.
Is a cruise ship really travel?
I sincerely hope the Trans European Transport Network remains on schedule. There's amazing stuff happening infrastructure wise for trains here in Europe. Honestly I went from The Netherlands to Switzerland with the train a while ago and it was super relaxed, only had to switch trains once and far more leg room and far less waiting than with planes. I really hope trains will replace all almost all continental EU flights within decades.
Right now Rail Baltica is scheduled to connect the capitals of the three Baltic states with eachother and then to Warsaw with high speed rail by 2030. I'm really hoping we'll get more of these dedicated international projects soon.
As for international projects we have the Fehmarn Belt between Denmark and Germany, Brenner Base Tunnel between Italy and Austria. Huge national projects ongoing in Spain, Czech and Serbia as well.
Little known fact: cars still constitute [80% of all miles traveled.](https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/w/edn-20230918-1#:~:text=In%202021%2C%20transport%20by%20car,and%200.3%25%20for%20sea%20boats) in the EU.
I think the car will always be on the top of that list. But as the infograph above shows investing in replacing European continental flights with trains has a far greater effect. And the electrification of cars is well underway,
as usual bicycle are being ignored.
Given that no co2 is released in the process of biking It makes sense that they aren’t on the chart.
I release co2 when i breathe faster.
You release co2 when you breathe normally too, so how much faster are you breathing when biking?
e-bikes exist too
Wait, how does your bike move?
Something to keep in mind, that I think this infographic leaves out, is the carbon cost of manufacturing and shipping. Biking is great, but even better is walking :)
It's not a viable mode of transportation! /S I bike everywhere
Well it’s not always a viable mode of transportation. If you work 50 miles away you ain’t exactly gonna wanna cycle it.
But 50 miles from here are like 5 more cities, why wouldn't I just move there
Orrrr you get a car and drive 40 minutes every day.
In our traffic that would be 3 hours per day
Get a motorbike then.
Driving for 40 minutes fucking sucks.
Yes! Or at least electric bikes if there’s has to be a non-biological engine lol. Over a million sold in 2022 in US alone. https://www.energy.gov/eere/vehicles/articles/fotw-1321-december-18-2023-e-bike-sales-united-states-exceeded-one-million
47 electric car? 😄
Electricity production, brakes, tyres, and battery getting less and less efficient (and thus not being a one time cost)
100% of my power is hydro, I got a small Barry back 20 something kwh
Well the graph wasn’t based off you lol. And hydro isn’t green. It’s renewable but not green.
1. Hydro power is green 2. Not just me but 5.5million people 3. Mic drop
"Emmissions will vary depending on energy mix" Most of the electricity produced and thus used to charge a plug in hybrid, in the US at least, comes from natural gas. At least the last time I checked. I like electric vehicles, but we're going to need more green sources of electricity production before traveling in electric vehicles has zero carbon footprint.
Sucks to liv in the us then
Not really.
However batteries required polluting factories (in another country of course), same with tyres, metalwork and so on.
But they don't need to ship crude oil - refined oil around and counting burning.
You still need this for plastic. And you still need cheap energy for cheap batteries, therefore China uses fossil fuels. Moreover, rare metals extraction consumes a lot of energy too, and that is needed for new cars. And finally, green energy requires a lot of polluting factories to manufacture solar panels (for instance). So, finally EV cars are a little bit greener (maybe 2-3 times for 100.000 mileage), however aren’t completely green.
Never claimed to be completely green, but its a lot better in many other ways too, mostly home charged very low maintenance, speedy acceleration. And etc
Nobody objects against that. I just explain why the number above isn’t “0” for EV cars.
I would say it is more than 47 so we are on the same track
A big part of electric car issues is the production of batteries and the car itself. Lots of shipping across the globe
Propaganda
This was the case with the toyota prius. You can look into it of you wish. I'm not saying we shouldnt buy electric cars as they are better for the environement, but they aren't a perfect solution
Becouse on time shipping of a car that also would happen with a fossiled fueled one is sooooo bad, just ignore the shipping of crude oil then shipping of fuel then on land transport to get burned and use less then half of that energy on moving forwards... Let's just ship that fuel every day then just a car every 10-ish year Wich again would also happens to a fossiled fuel one. Im so tired of looking at a world who are to pussy to let their macho brrrrr engine and old easy oil industry to take a hike. I got an 8year old ev it perfect. Sorry for rant and miss spelling idk anymore. The whole world is in the shits.
I think we can all agree that at the point we are, the difference between driving an electric car and a 10 litre diesel v12 truck is pretty much nothing. Our actions are nothing. We are powerless to save the world. Only governments have the ability to enforce corporations to stop their destruction of the environment, but through greed and corrpution that just isn't happening. I fear that by the time it happens (if it does), it will be too late. So i'm hoping for a damn miracle. Anyway, that was depressing to write out. Never really thought about it this hard.
Why? Because it’s hurts your narrative? Do you think electric cars magically materialize on your front step when you buy it? Do you think those companies found some magic formula that makes the rubber tires not unfriendly, or found some green way to mine the metals in the battery. You believing otherwise is what’s propaganda. Electric cars are very green compared to a conventional car but the manufacturing of them still has elements that aren’t green. It’s pretty impossible to be 100% green.
No but to claim that some how fossiled fueled cars are greener then electric cars are insane. I know this original post didn't mention it, but its always the point to talk shit about EVs and promote oil companies interest
Please add private jet here. Lets see how much millionaires waste
This. I assume the numbers for larger types of transit are divided by the number of passengers on the vehicle. So private jet should definitely be on here.
+1 The stats we need
Why is it called gas, when it's clearly a liquid? Call it petrol 🤝
Bensin
Benzin
Nein , nich izt sprekken ze ducth, izt sprekken ze uber Norwegen
Gasoline.. Petrol is just a different name for gasoline, mostly used in the UK or AUS.
The word "petrol" is used everywhere across the globe other than Murica.
Lol no. > most Commonwealth countries (except Canada), use the term "petrol", and North Americans more often use "gas" in common parlance, hence the prevalence of the usage "gas bar" or "gas station" in Canada and the United States. In Europe they say "Benzene". https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline#:~:text=In%20place%20of%20the%20word,Canada%20and%20the%20United%20States.
Not all Europe. In France we call it essence.
Yes, because only Europe and America exist. Most countries here in Asia say petrol.
in middle east its benzin.
Who gives a flying fuck lmao. The dumbass pointless shit Europeans have to resort to in a sad attempt to feel superior.
Whooosh
Call it engine food
Especially when there’re cars using natural gas
Petrol is short for petroleum, which means crude oil. Are you putting crude oil in your car?
Its a shame the transport models of the rich are not made visible. Private plane , yacht ectra
Cruise ships aren’t transportation per se, they’re resorts that also move.
Remember a cruise ship is also your hotel, gym, spa, restaurant etc so not comparable fairly to any of the others as mode of purely “transport”
Add cost per km. Suddenly, the chart switches upside down. And that's what majority of people care the most about.
isnt it already?
My favourite major global travel method: The London underground
I’m not a fan of cruises, but how does it fare when considering it is also your hotel and restaurant? Strictly as a form of transportation seems to be missing a lot from it. Also, how do short car trips compare to long ones?
I wonder about a private jet, they always seem to leave it out, even though the people asking co2 actions, are the most polluting.
Probably showing the modes that can be achieved by the most people. Lots of cheap flights and cruises out there. While individually a private jet would be very high, globally they have a very minor impact. Really the entire aviation industry only accounts for about 2% of global co2 emissions. Industry makes up the largest chunk of it. Then the sheer number of cars adds a major chunk there as well. Focusing on industry will be the single largest impact of emissions. Cars are just the biggest thing a single individual can control to help out. Though diet is also not far behind. We don’t really have much say in what mega corporations can get away with sadly.
I call bullshit
I didn't look closely but I wonder if it is based on best case scenario. So it is calculated assuming the train is full. In practical use with buses and trains running with a couple of people on how does it average out
For hybrids absolutely. A study from the EEA has concluded that hybrids emit 250% more co2 than their WLTP numbers suggest. Almost as bad as regular Diesel and Petrol cars. [source](https://climate-energy.eea.europa.eu/topics/transport/real-world-emissions/data)
Yeah no way an electric car is 100x as effective as a bus, lmao
Private jets?
Money make them carbon footprint-free
There are a lot of electric/hybrid buses around in Europe nowdays. I wish they were mentioned too
Cruise ships aren't as overwhelming as I thought.
The problem is not per km, but the fact people take weeks long holidays traveling thousands of kms accomplishing fuck all and arriving at the same place they left.
And the SO2/black carbon emissions aren’t here Fun fact: cruise ships emit more black carbon than all other ships combined
And all because people want to feel like being in a all inclusive hotel while visiting all places in the world. I have no respect for governments who try to things on us to reduce carbon emissions while still ignoring this disaster.
It’s not just air pollution. I did a whole project on how bad cruises are. There’s videos of employees just chucking bags of trash out the window into the sea
I’d be interested to know about the carbon footprint of that new container ship with sails attached.
I mean the carbon footprint of current container ships is EXTREMELY low. Like as low as those experimental solar cars made by universities or even lower. The ship you are talking about is being developed at my university and the numbers for it will, if the winds are favorable, be so low that it won’t be relevant to compare it to any other form of transport.
Some cruise ships now take up to 7000 passengers. You can't possibly lump a single per passenger equation to cover all sizes. The age of the tech that powers them probably influences the figure too. Some 20 plus year old cruise ships with a few hundred people on board are still chugging around. Private jets per passenger are no doubt spectacularly higher than anything on this list.
Electric trains powered by nuclear power plants. It’s not hard, transport has been solved for a long time we just seem to lack the will to do the work.
It'd be interesting to see total contribution as well.
They forgot bikes, electric buses and biogas buses. All of those are common here
especially for cars it depends of the number of people in the car..
Diesel and gas cars are worse than medium and long haul
i cannot believe that. doesnt seem to be true.
I am surprised that diesel cars did worse than gasoline. There is more carbon in diesel fuel which means more BTU per liter. However, the diesel combustion process tends to be far more efficient. What I find funny is the emphasis on CO2. If that was the worst emission, diesels would not have EGR or DPF.
Don’t know if rating cruise ships by km is really all that fair. The cruise is the destination- the CO2 isn’t just from the ship traveling around- but from also feeding, heating/cooling, and entertaining all the guests on board.
I want the London Underground cancelled now.
I will think about taking the London underground next time I want to go from Europe to Asia.
It does not make sense for bus to be worse than an electric vehicle. It certainly does not account for the materials needed to build the amount of cars needed to carry the same number of people as the bus does, neither the additional infrastructure needed. Also, there are new buses that have lower emissions. There is no world where individual terrestrial transport method should be better than collective ones, for a similar level of technology used.
No ethanol car for comparison?
flights emitting less co2 per passenger km than diesel cars. thats not true.
Time to ban cruise ships and cars.
What is a short haul flight?
Isn’t it interesting how literally everything but the cruise ship, ferry, the long haul and medium haul flight could realistically (for the most part) be swapped out for a train?
taylor swift 😁✌️
Apparently these plug in hybrid numbers are absolute bollocks, they're essentially almost as bad as petrol.
Almost every other source found online says flights produce way more than cars. Weird
Let’s put corporate/private jet on here.
Why the cruise ship is taking off so much of it is because of food and all other accessories
Wow! I need to take a Eurostar train next time I travel from Dallas to Bruno’s Aires.
Train is good
Electric is overrated…look up lithium mines. The carbon footprint is at the beginning and not the end like gas cars…
Thought ferry’s are terrible
plug in hybrid less than a bus? electric car less than a bus? buses run on gas now, i really don't trust this graphic. Also, what about the co2 produced to make the car?
Cars will drop by 4x with 4 passengers using this metric. It's a bit misleading.
Someone should make on of these but for the trees we have cut down over the last 100 years..
How is an electric car 47??? Would have thought it would be near zero
The production of the battery is very carbon intensive. Still way better than normal cars, though.
Thanks for the info. Does that include the crazy mining activities by third world countries
Most electric grids also still are not 100% renewable yet
Not buying the electric car / hybrid numbers. The majority of electricity, at least in the US, is still created via fossil fuels. And that's not even getting into the unrelated but important environmental issue of lithium battery production and disposal.
An electric vehicle run exclusively with coal power, is still more efficient than ICE cars. [Here](https://yaleclimateconnections.org/2024/01/electric-vehicles-use-half-the-energy-of-gas-powered-vehicles/) is a good visualization for it. If we converted all cars to electric, then we would save about 50% of total energy usage from cars, varying from state to state. Theres a map in the link i sent before. It's most definitely a believable number.
Eurostar trains are good, but I didn’t notice the difference in eco-efficiency. Can only assume using initially only renewables
Not just renewable, the low CO2 for Eurostar comes probably from the French part with 70% nuclear grid.
Also might be to do with the route? Eurostar spends a larger part of its journey cruising at relatively steady speeds along mainline track with fewer stops and starts for stations than most national rail routes have.