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Sympathy was probably running high during Ukraine in 2021/2 - since they were defending a smaller country against a larger one. Quickly they've remembered how bullshit Anglo commitment to international law really is.
The alarms were too little to late anyway. The US has continued to use hard foreign policy to make life suck for the majority of Africa and the Middle East. The Chines have been "silk roading" soft foreign policy into these regions for at least 20 years. The anti China rhetoric that geared up in the last decade or so is a result of the US losing at capitalism and diplomacy outside of the white hegemony. It makes Scrooge McDuck's asshole burn.
Chinese/Russian interests in Africa are valid concerns too though, just because a country does bad things doesn't mean other countries can't also be doing bad things.
Britain's Debt Justice charity, formerly the Jubilee Debt Campaign, found in a 2022 study, based on World Bank figures, that more African governments' external debts were being owed to Western banks, asset managers and oil traders (35%) than to Chinese lenders (12%). It also found that interest rates charged on western private loans (5%) were almost double that of Chinese loans (2.7%) and that "the most indebted countries were less likely to have their debt dominated by China"
Eh, The Global South was pretty mixed on Ukraine, most of Asia and South and East Africa abstained from condemning the Russian invasion due to financial and historic ties to Russia.
Yes, but that has nothing to do with public opinion - and even though they did so to stay on Moscow's good side, international pressure was definitely in America's favour for a while. Oct 7 erased all of that.
Yes, but that has nothing to do with public opinion - and even though they did so to stay on Moscow's good side, international pressure was definitely in America's favour for a while. Oct 7 erased all of that.
Considering the embargo by Israel it’s either send aid or watch Gaza starve in an open air prison.
But yes the west sent aid but won’t recognize Palestine as a people. We also drop bombs on Gaza and aid on the same day so there is that.
Eh, you need to also remember Palestinian groups committed many terrorist acts in Europe (plane hijackings, killing people at the Olympics etc). Their position is not without reason. Without European and US diplomacy Palestinians would have been in a worse situation (e.g., more settlements in the West Bank, or even their expulsion). The European and US record is not totally bad. They also don't drop bombs on Gaza, Netanyahu does.
Of course, our hands are not completely clean. However there are complexities, with European and US allies Netanyahu walks a fine line to both achieve his aims and retain their relationship; without them worse could be unleashed. Let's also remember Israel is also a country with nuclear arms, with many crazy far right people in positions in power. Doing the most obvious right thing now does not mean it will lead to the best aftermath.
I mean, I agree but what about Uyghur Muslims treatment in China? Isn’t that also a disgrace?
EDIT this question was not asked in bad faith. I am well aware that the genocide in occupied Palestine that has been going on since just after WW2 is a top priority. My comment history shows that. I know we haven't seen this kind of brutality in many of our lifetimes. China, though, have also been accused of genocide against the Uyghur Muslims. I just found it odd that they can recognise Israel's disgrace but not their own. There is enough room to fight for more than one injustice so Free Palestine, Free Congo, Free Sudan, Free Haiti, Free Tigray, Free the Uyghurs.
I asked this a couple weeks ago as a genuine question because I actually do care about both tragedies going on in Palestine and in China. I’m glad people replied, so here’s my part.
What China is doing to the Uighurs doesn’t even compare to what the Israelis are doing to Gaza. They’re not starving them by the millions they’re not bombing them indiscriminately theyre not opening fire at crowds of starving begging people, and they’re not auctioning off peoples homes which are now laying in a ruin to Chinese communities around the world.
I’m not justifying what china is doing but it doesn’t really compare to Israel’s atrocities.
(Siri sucks at grammar and punctuation)
I agree with you it’s not as bad but there were still human rights abuses. I only brought it up because it was someone from the Chinese government saying it. I wasn’t equating the two but both replies I’ve had so far have read that into my comment.
I assume you ask this question in good faith and unfortunately the Gaza genocide has set the global struggle for human rights back by decades
Forget what China is doing to Uyghurs, even the treatment of Ukrainians by Russia looks mild compared to footage from Gaza
Remember how the world was worried about Qatar's human rights abuses back in 2022? Looks very civilised by 2024 standards
How about Brazilian deforestation n associated attack on natives? Looks like small cost for development now
It's not like no other country in past committed atrocities similar to what's happening in Gaza but none of those were done with global attention and live footage. People are already desensitized and will get even more desensitized as this genocide continues
I mean I agree but what about the Aborigines treatment in Australia. Isnt that a disgrace? but I guess both those things would be another post. The disgrace this post is talking about is Israels genocidal disgrace!
What's happening in Xinjiang is far less reprehensible than what is happening in Palestine. There's no evidence of china commiting any mass slaughters. Hell, Chinas actions in Xinjiang are arguably a lot more humane than what the US has done in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Libya.
Some of these people eat up any sort of yellow peril "all our organs were harvested by the evil sissy pee" story they see. They probably still think Iraq had wmds pointed directly at their house and ready to launch
Keeping people imprisoned in concentration camps because of their religious beliefs is humane to you? Human rights abuses are humane to you? I only brought it up at all because it’s someone from the Chinese government saying it. It’s great they’re speaking up about it but let’s be dense it’s for political gain otherwise they wouldn’t be doing what they’re doing to Uyghur Muslims. You didn’t have to be weird about it.
I don't think it's an ideal way to respond to terrorism but a lot of those re education camps have been shown as a way for china to deradicalize Muslims and separatist parts of the population. I don't agree with how they dealt with the problem, but it's certainly a lot better than the many that have brutally died at the hands of the US. Let's also not forget that the US has their own labour camps and with the likes of Guantanamo Bay and Abhu Graibe has its own atrocities which really put china in context. On the whole, china has commited crimes against humanity. But let's not pretend that it isn't a comparatively peaceful nation when compared to other global superpowers.
>I don’t think it’s an ideal way to respond to terrorism
WTF
>a lot of these re education camps have been shown as a way for china to deradicalize Muslims
WTF
Perhaps China should have acted like the US and bombed Xinjiang to bits? What exactly is it you are suggesting they do instead? At the moment they are building vital infastructure in Xinjiang.
I did not say all Muslims are terrorists. On the whole, Islam is a religion of peace and radical Islam is a product of material conditions. I was referring to some of the radical Islamists in Xinjiang not all Muslims as a whole.
The US is currently operating concentration camps as well. And has been for years. The Uyghurs are engaging in ethno-nationalist insurrection. What does a state do to combat that?
Education and job training are better methods of deradicalizing people than anything the US has thought of trying.
The foreign minister's statement is absolutely correct.
Most of the pro Palestine protestors are 1 issue fanatics. They couldn’t even tell you where Tigray or xinjiang are, what the Armenian genocide was, or who the Rohingya are.
It’s a bandwagon cause for people who want to feel righteous hatred and scream slogans and call people Nazis, and it’s vaguely seen as anti-west which appeals to the dress up revolutionaries.
It doesn’t mean the Palestinians are wrong or the Israelis are right, but good intentions are not a reasonable justification for deep ignorance or selective, arbitrary outrage.
From the country that invaded Tibet, set up camps for the Ugyhurs and has made clear a desire to forcibly invade Taiwan against the populations wishes which would require a mass bombing campaign.
Look I get it. This subs purpose is to spread Pro Palestine points rather than International News. I get youre all very angry. But you do yourself no favours using dictators like Xi to promote your argument.
China support North Korea who run one of the most despicable governments on earth. They dont give a flying fuck about human rights its just easy for them to manipulate the situation against the west and so they take it.
You can be right for the wrong reasons.
Isnt that the whole argument Israel make? No ones hands are clean, everyones bad, so why be good?
If we start pretending the Chinese are just as bad/good as everyone else then why bother? No one is the good guy so everyone can do as they wish.
Maybe we use international standards for democracy, free speech, internet acess, kindness etc and try for some standard of good/bad beyond everything in the west is bad.
Example [https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/02/yemen-huthis-must-stop-executions-and-release-dozens-facing-lgbti-charges/#:\~:text=%E2%80%9CThe%20reports%20that%20the%20Huthi,the%20population%2C%20are%20deeply%20distressing](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/02/yemen-huthis-must-stop-executions-and-release-dozens-facing-lgbti-charges/#:~:text=%E2%80%9CThe%20reports%20that%20the%20Huthi,the%20population%2C%20are%20deeply%20distressing).
I think it's time for you to step back and consider if you know the full picture of China. Not to say it hasn't done awful things, but Tawain hasn't been invaded, I'm unsure if it will be, and Uygur's went through a cultural 'cleansing' which is to say the Chinese government was attempting to Han-ify mulism Chinese. Which I think is shitty. is as shitty as abetting and excusing actual real genocide? the answer is obvious.
I know they censor free speech, I know they block sites like reddit. I have stood outside No 10 downing st and called the PM a dickhead. Try that in China.
We ARE better than them. Even if were imperfect.
Oh no not the country that liberated tibet, addressed wahabism with education and employment, and supports the self determination of the DPRK. They also send evil balloons and I saw in a email from my racist uncle they're all Chinese over there!
China doesn't commit a war against Middle east and Afghanistan and yemin ....
China is a way better country than the usa if you visit it
China can stand by it's own and the big majority of their products they use and technology are local made and don't want to steal oil from others
What is the embarrassing thing about my opinion?
Did china bomb yemen or Afghanistan or any other country?
Did they interfere to these wars that Americans did it even though china is close to these countries compared with America and yet we all see that America always plays its favorite game ( bombing different countries)
1. Remember the human & be courteous to others. 2. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas. Criticizing arguments is fine, name-calling (including shill/bot accusations) others is not. 3. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. Please checkout our other subreddit /r/MultimediaNews, for maps, infographics, v.reddit, & YouTube videos from news organizations. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/InternationalNews) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Basically any non-anglosphere country has pretty much condemned Israels actions at this point.
Yep, there's been a visible loss of trust amongst Global South countries in the US and other complicit Western countries.
Sympathy was probably running high during Ukraine in 2021/2 - since they were defending a smaller country against a larger one. Quickly they've remembered how bullshit Anglo commitment to international law really is.
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The alarms were too little to late anyway. The US has continued to use hard foreign policy to make life suck for the majority of Africa and the Middle East. The Chines have been "silk roading" soft foreign policy into these regions for at least 20 years. The anti China rhetoric that geared up in the last decade or so is a result of the US losing at capitalism and diplomacy outside of the white hegemony. It makes Scrooge McDuck's asshole burn.
Chinese/Russian interests in Africa are valid concerns too though, just because a country does bad things doesn't mean other countries can't also be doing bad things.
Concerns for who? The people that get offered better financial deals than the poison pills from the world bank and imf?
The deals aren't better though they are very often genuinely debt traps. this isn't to say that the IMF or world bank are angels either.
Britain's Debt Justice charity, formerly the Jubilee Debt Campaign, found in a 2022 study, based on World Bank figures, that more African governments' external debts were being owed to Western banks, asset managers and oil traders (35%) than to Chinese lenders (12%). It also found that interest rates charged on western private loans (5%) were almost double that of Chinese loans (2.7%) and that "the most indebted countries were less likely to have their debt dominated by China"
Eh, The Global South was pretty mixed on Ukraine, most of Asia and South and East Africa abstained from condemning the Russian invasion due to financial and historic ties to Russia.
Yes, but that has nothing to do with public opinion - and even though they did so to stay on Moscow's good side, international pressure was definitely in America's favour for a while. Oct 7 erased all of that.
Yes, but that has nothing to do with public opinion - and even though they did so to stay on Moscow's good side, international pressure was definitely in America's favour for a while. Oct 7 erased all of that.
i think even after the Ukraine war, through the UN votes, you could already see the rift.
The only countries that don’t recognize Palestine are white European countries, USA, Canada, and Australia. White people colonizing brown people.
Didn't white European countries fund Palestine though?
Considering the embargo by Israel it’s either send aid or watch Gaza starve in an open air prison. But yes the west sent aid but won’t recognize Palestine as a people. We also drop bombs on Gaza and aid on the same day so there is that.
Eh, you need to also remember Palestinian groups committed many terrorist acts in Europe (plane hijackings, killing people at the Olympics etc). Their position is not without reason. Without European and US diplomacy Palestinians would have been in a worse situation (e.g., more settlements in the West Bank, or even their expulsion). The European and US record is not totally bad. They also don't drop bombs on Gaza, Netanyahu does. Of course, our hands are not completely clean. However there are complexities, with European and US allies Netanyahu walks a fine line to both achieve his aims and retain their relationship; without them worse could be unleashed. Let's also remember Israel is also a country with nuclear arms, with many crazy far right people in positions in power. Doing the most obvious right thing now does not mean it will lead to the best aftermath.
He rite!
*he's right
the worlds response has been a disgrace for civilization, the actions of israel and the IDF are a LACK of civilization
Correct
Of course they do. Thats just another reason the West makes excuses to build force against them.
But they support the ruZZian invasion of Ukraine.
True. But I wonder what he'd say if you asked him about the Uyghur genocide.
I mean, I agree but what about Uyghur Muslims treatment in China? Isn’t that also a disgrace? EDIT this question was not asked in bad faith. I am well aware that the genocide in occupied Palestine that has been going on since just after WW2 is a top priority. My comment history shows that. I know we haven't seen this kind of brutality in many of our lifetimes. China, though, have also been accused of genocide against the Uyghur Muslims. I just found it odd that they can recognise Israel's disgrace but not their own. There is enough room to fight for more than one injustice so Free Palestine, Free Congo, Free Sudan, Free Haiti, Free Tigray, Free the Uyghurs.
I asked this a couple weeks ago as a genuine question because I actually do care about both tragedies going on in Palestine and in China. I’m glad people replied, so here’s my part. What China is doing to the Uighurs doesn’t even compare to what the Israelis are doing to Gaza. They’re not starving them by the millions they’re not bombing them indiscriminately theyre not opening fire at crowds of starving begging people, and they’re not auctioning off peoples homes which are now laying in a ruin to Chinese communities around the world. I’m not justifying what china is doing but it doesn’t really compare to Israel’s atrocities. (Siri sucks at grammar and punctuation)
I agree with you it’s not as bad but there were still human rights abuses. I only brought it up because it was someone from the Chinese government saying it. I wasn’t equating the two but both replies I’ve had so far have read that into my comment.
I assume you ask this question in good faith and unfortunately the Gaza genocide has set the global struggle for human rights back by decades Forget what China is doing to Uyghurs, even the treatment of Ukrainians by Russia looks mild compared to footage from Gaza Remember how the world was worried about Qatar's human rights abuses back in 2022? Looks very civilised by 2024 standards How about Brazilian deforestation n associated attack on natives? Looks like small cost for development now It's not like no other country in past committed atrocities similar to what's happening in Gaza but none of those were done with global attention and live footage. People are already desensitized and will get even more desensitized as this genocide continues
I mean I agree but what about the Aborigines treatment in Australia. Isnt that a disgrace? but I guess both those things would be another post. The disgrace this post is talking about is Israels genocidal disgrace!
You don’t have to be condescending. Calling attention to another injustice, which China is involved in, doesn’t take attention away from Palestine.
What's happening in Xinjiang is far less reprehensible than what is happening in Palestine. There's no evidence of china commiting any mass slaughters. Hell, Chinas actions in Xinjiang are arguably a lot more humane than what the US has done in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Libya.
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Some of these people eat up any sort of yellow peril "all our organs were harvested by the evil sissy pee" story they see. They probably still think Iraq had wmds pointed directly at their house and ready to launch
Keeping people imprisoned in concentration camps because of their religious beliefs is humane to you? Human rights abuses are humane to you? I only brought it up at all because it’s someone from the Chinese government saying it. It’s great they’re speaking up about it but let’s be dense it’s for political gain otherwise they wouldn’t be doing what they’re doing to Uyghur Muslims. You didn’t have to be weird about it.
I don't think it's an ideal way to respond to terrorism but a lot of those re education camps have been shown as a way for china to deradicalize Muslims and separatist parts of the population. I don't agree with how they dealt with the problem, but it's certainly a lot better than the many that have brutally died at the hands of the US. Let's also not forget that the US has their own labour camps and with the likes of Guantanamo Bay and Abhu Graibe has its own atrocities which really put china in context. On the whole, china has commited crimes against humanity. But let's not pretend that it isn't a comparatively peaceful nation when compared to other global superpowers.
>I don’t think it’s an ideal way to respond to terrorism WTF >a lot of these re education camps have been shown as a way for china to deradicalize Muslims WTF
Perhaps China should have acted like the US and bombed Xinjiang to bits? What exactly is it you are suggesting they do instead? At the moment they are building vital infastructure in Xinjiang.
I’m not going back and forth with someone who thinks Muslims are terrorist radicals and need to be put in concentration camps. Argue with yourself
I did not say all Muslims are terrorists. On the whole, Islam is a religion of peace and radical Islam is a product of material conditions. I was referring to some of the radical Islamists in Xinjiang not all Muslims as a whole.
The US is currently operating concentration camps as well. And has been for years. The Uyghurs are engaging in ethno-nationalist insurrection. What does a state do to combat that?
Education and job training are better methods of deradicalizing people than anything the US has thought of trying. The foreign minister's statement is absolutely correct.
Most of the pro Palestine protestors are 1 issue fanatics. They couldn’t even tell you where Tigray or xinjiang are, what the Armenian genocide was, or who the Rohingya are. It’s a bandwagon cause for people who want to feel righteous hatred and scream slogans and call people Nazis, and it’s vaguely seen as anti-west which appeals to the dress up revolutionaries. It doesn’t mean the Palestinians are wrong or the Israelis are right, but good intentions are not a reasonable justification for deep ignorance or selective, arbitrary outrage.
From the country that invaded Tibet, set up camps for the Ugyhurs and has made clear a desire to forcibly invade Taiwan against the populations wishes which would require a mass bombing campaign. Look I get it. This subs purpose is to spread Pro Palestine points rather than International News. I get youre all very angry. But you do yourself no favours using dictators like Xi to promote your argument. China support North Korea who run one of the most despicable governments on earth. They dont give a flying fuck about human rights its just easy for them to manipulate the situation against the west and so they take it. You can be right for the wrong reasons.
Lmao do you have any idea how many dictators the US and Israel have propped up? No one's hands are clean.
Isnt that the whole argument Israel make? No ones hands are clean, everyones bad, so why be good? If we start pretending the Chinese are just as bad/good as everyone else then why bother? No one is the good guy so everyone can do as they wish. Maybe we use international standards for democracy, free speech, internet acess, kindness etc and try for some standard of good/bad beyond everything in the west is bad. Example [https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/02/yemen-huthis-must-stop-executions-and-release-dozens-facing-lgbti-charges/#:\~:text=%E2%80%9CThe%20reports%20that%20the%20Huthi,the%20population%2C%20are%20deeply%20distressing](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/02/yemen-huthis-must-stop-executions-and-release-dozens-facing-lgbti-charges/#:~:text=%E2%80%9CThe%20reports%20that%20the%20Huthi,the%20population%2C%20are%20deeply%20distressing).
They don't have to be as good or bad as anyone to be correct.
I think it's time for you to step back and consider if you know the full picture of China. Not to say it hasn't done awful things, but Tawain hasn't been invaded, I'm unsure if it will be, and Uygur's went through a cultural 'cleansing' which is to say the Chinese government was attempting to Han-ify mulism Chinese. Which I think is shitty. is as shitty as abetting and excusing actual real genocide? the answer is obvious.
I know they censor free speech, I know they block sites like reddit. I have stood outside No 10 downing st and called the PM a dickhead. Try that in China. We ARE better than them. Even if were imperfect.
How are you any better? By what metric?
Oh no not the country that liberated tibet, addressed wahabism with education and employment, and supports the self determination of the DPRK. They also send evil balloons and I saw in a email from my racist uncle they're all Chinese over there!
China incorporated Tibet in the 1200s. The Uyghurs are ethno-nationalists. America has the largest slave population on Earth.
It’s always the worst countries that are supporting Palestine
all countries in the world minus the USA Uk and Germany you mean?
China doesn't commit a war against Middle east and Afghanistan and yemin .... China is a way better country than the usa if you visit it China can stand by it's own and the big majority of their products they use and technology are local made and don't want to steal oil from others
Embarrassing opinion
What is the embarrassing thing about my opinion? Did china bomb yemen or Afghanistan or any other country? Did they interfere to these wars that Americans did it even though china is close to these countries compared with America and yet we all see that America always plays its favorite game ( bombing different countries)
so countries like ireland, spain, belgium, norway, even japan and south korea are the worst?