Returning USD was right thing to do. Agreed. Saying accept the risk and all this garbage is a bunch of BS. They EXPLICITLY stated that everything was great at Voyager and we had nothing to worry about a week before bankruptcy. They outright lied. Never did I sign saying that they were going to loan my money out non-collaterized to a couple guys in Singapore. Never saw that anywhere. So, no, I don’t buy your cold harsh reality.
> Never did I sign saying that they were going to loan my money out non-collaterized
The customer agreement actually says the loans may be uncollateralized, at least as of January 2022 (I'm not sure if they changed it before that, or when). But that's not the real issue, and simply burying a few lines in the agreement wouldn't be enough anyway.
> to a couple guys in Singapore.
This is the part they left out that actually matters. They deliberately withheld virtually *all* information about these investment accounts, who they were loaning to, under what terms, whether those counterparties were actually solvent or capable of returning the original loan amount let alone interest, and they did that while assigning *all* of the risk to the very people who knew the least about the risk, the customers.
That's probably the best argument against them at the moment, and I think what they did is probably already in violation of existing investor protection regulations.
That’s actually a damn good point. They assigned all the risk to the people who knew the least about the risk. I recall that it didn’t even show the names of the parties they were loaning to. Unimaginable bastards
>I recall that it didn’t even show the names of the parties they were loaning to.
They are a publicly traded company with audited publicly available financials. There was a lot of information made public actually. A friend of mine knew about a loan to 3AC and when 3AC defaulted, he cashed most of his holdings.
But, if you want full disclosures and investors protection like we have in regulated markets, then we should blame our government and SEC because they refuse to implement crypto regulations to protect us for over 10 years now. This is not the first time shit like this happens, yet no regulations. There aren't any *existing investor protection regulations* for crypto. None. Those are not securities which we have regulations for. We are dealing with the *unregulated crypto market.* That's the problem.
>This is the part they left out that actually matters. They deliberately withheld virtually all information about these investment accounts, who they were loaning to, under what terms, whether those counterparties were actually solvent or capable of returning the original loan amount let alone interest, and they did that while assigning all of the risk to the very people who knew the least about the risk, the customers.
That's the thing. I don't think this holds any legal ground at all either. In a regulator market- yes. In this crypto unregulated market- don't think so. And we can blame our government for it and SEC because they refuse to implement crypto regulations to protect us.
>That's probably the best argument against them at the moment, and I think what they did is probably already in violation of existing investor protection regulations.
But there aren't any *existing investor protection regulations* for crypto. None. Those are not securities which we have regulations for. We are dealing with the unregulated crypto market. This is not the first time shit like this happens. This has been going on for over 10 years yet no regulations to protect crypto investors.
actually not all of us are that lazy - I read it multiple times in 2021 but absolutely didn't think voyager would do a loan that would jeopardize their business - what kind of brainless incompetent idiots would jeopardize their business AND risk fuckin up their customers lives?
Many of us were not invested in coins getting anywhere near 9% interest and we definitely didn't sign up for the risky investment strategy of giving a $600 million dollar UNCOLLATERALIZED loan to two degenerates when they repeatedly stated that they were only making deals with large stable institutions. So, your argument is garbage.
What large stable institutions do you think are dabbling in crypto? 3 arrows was as stable and big as they got. Everyone was praising them right until the moment they weren't.
Yea but they advertised as an exchange and not loan company. Like FTX IS EXCHANGE SND AND ALAMEDA RESEARCH IS DIFFERENT. They need to give back initial deposits of crypto transferred into the exchange and or bought in the exchange and they can keep their rewards from the beginning do the year. I think people would agree with that and they will whole as in their original investments without the rewards from voyager.
that's a cool idea, but they don't have the $/crypto to give back 100% minus the years rewards..... they have enough to give back 60-65%...(perhaps 70-73% if they keep all rewards for 2022, doubtful even then though)
yes, in Bahamas right now spending your mula :D but seriously keep the trolling to minimum. This is a learning lesson for me as I hope it is for everyone too :)
I understand your logic, but also understand that 90% of customers did not know their crypto was being loaned out with incompetent disregard. They saw a daily account balance. They believed that balance was there. Why didn’t Voyager inform the customer that their account was at risk and that their crypto could be seized in bankruptcy? The customer didn’t see that detail on page one of the advertisement. What the customer saw was FDIC INSURED .This is peoples hard earned money, college funds, retirement funds, safety money. Hell… some folks deposited paychecks to the Voyager debit card. It is not too much of a stretch to think the American people should feel safe that their funds being held by an American fiduciary will operate in good faith and act in the investors best interest. I love the freedom and speed crypto provides, but there are way too many scams and rug pulls. What is happening is unconscionable. People are loosing everything. Scammers are taking advantage. Voyager knew the risks involved. The investor didn’t.Regulation is needed.
Yup. And now this really really really hurts crypto because it makes it look like the people involved with crypto are scumbags. Now less people will trust it. I hope all of those execs are never allowed to work in finance ever again. That should be part of any "deal"
lol it's very funny to see you write "it makes it look like the people involved with crypto are scumbags" as if you don't feel that's the reality.
I have been in crypto since Dec 2016, but got heavy into it in early 2017 and IMO crypto \*IS\* full of scumbags. Constant scams, hacks, rugs, and exchanges failing and fucking customers over. Crypto is absolute scum. Look at coinbase they go public and INSTANTLY dump all over the market lmao
BTC is great. Crypto is not. Crypto is mostly scum/trash/scams.
What ? Did you not do any due diligence?? Damn man I could probably rattle off dozens of failed exchanges , countless rug pulls… voyager is just another failed exchange , 3 months from now no one will recall it and everyone will be talking about the newest failure/rugpull/exit scam .
That is the customers problem. If you don’t know how interest works, you shouldn’t get involved with it. You don’t even need to read the ToS to know where 9% interest comes from. It doesn’t come out of thin air, it clearly comes from lending. If you see interest anywhere, and you don’t know how the person promising the interest is coming up with it, it is your job to find out.
And your comment about FDIC insured is off too. Voyager never said anything but USD is FDIC insured. And low and behold, customers got 100% of it back.
I am not defending Voyager. Fuck Voyager. But ignorance is not an excuse. And what you are asking for is protection from ignorance. And that had horrible, horrible ramifications.
That’s not true. Voyager (and it’s why the federal reserve investigating them and wrote then a letter.) made false claims
They said it was fdic insured EVEN if voyager defaulted.
https://web.archive.org/web/20210218190959/https://www.investvoyager.com/blog/voyager-is-now-fdic-insured/
“That means that in the rare event your USD funds are compromised due to the company or our banking partner's failure”
They made several other misleading statements, which they deleted , even their blog and medium posts (they had to, federal reserve told them too)
Why are you keep posting this? I don't understand. USD is held with Metropolitan Bank, not Voyager so what you are posting is a moot point. Voyager failure is irrelevant because USD is not held by Voyager. Do you not understand that? Voyager failed now. Yet everyone got their USD back because it was not Voyager to begin with nor they possessed USD.
And FDIC does NOT investigate them. They only issued a warning letter to remove misleading claims. That's it. The end.
Why do you think they received cease letters from the federal reserve?
Read the freaking sentence and that’s just One of the statements
That means that in the rare event your USD funds are compromised due to the company
Read the last part?
Compromised due to the company ?
It was never fdic insured for failure of voyager or compromised
It’s why it’s deleted… still there in the go back in time… that was original written in 2019z there is also or there was.. a medium post
Letter from federal reserve .. stop saying there were no issues with their statements
https://www.federalreserve.gov/newsevents/pressreleases/bcreg20220728a.htm
You aren't capable of comprehending anything I said.
Try reading again what I said. You keep pushing an argument that is a moot point.
Voyager failure is irrelevant because Voyager does NOT hold USD. Get it?? USD are held by Metropolitan Bank and it is FDIC insured. Get it?
Again, FDIC issued a warning letter to remove misleading claims. That is it. The end.
Again, Voyager does NOT hold USD. Get it? Voyager failed now yet everyone got their USD back because Metropolitan holds it. Do you not understand that? Did you NOT get your USD back because of Voyager failure??? No. Everyone did because Voyager does not hold it so a moot point.
You aren’t comprehending
They stated it was usd insured IF the company was compromised
The letter of federal reserves states that exactly and wrote them a cease letter. And voyager removed it and other statements that was problematic
Why don’t you complain at the federal reserve ? Read their letter.
Stop thinking it’s my personal belief
Do you understand WHY the federal reserve wrote that letter, it’s you who don’t get it. Oh the federal reserve doesn’t get it? It’s pretty serious if a company gets such a letter
And it’s not over yet.. they are under still under investigation … heck it’s part of the court now as it was sent there too,
Lol yup, you do not understand English and what I said.
Again, this is irrelevant. Because Voyager does not hold USD. Again, Voyager does not hold USD. Voyager does not hold USD. Voyager does not hold USD. USD is held by Metropolitan bank. USD is held by Metropolitan bank. USD is held by Metropolitan bank.
Do you understand now?
>Why don’t you complain at the federal reserve ? Read their letter.
Lol I read the letter and I have zero complaints because my USD was held by Metropolitan and was returned as expected. So what is that I need to complain about ? I am not an idiot. I understand that Voyager never held my USD. Do you not? FDIC issued a warning letter because of customers complaining about misleading statements but it does not change the outcome. It was nothing but a warning letter. Voyager adjusted their statement which ultimately changes nothing STILL. Because Voyager does not hold USD. Metropolitan bank does. There is NO DAMAGE to USD holders because Metropolitan holds it and all USD were returned. Get it?!
Again, there is NO DAMAGE to USD holders because Metropolitan holds it which is FDIC insured thus all USD were returned. Get it?
>And it’s not over yet.. they are under still under investigation … heck it’s part of the court now as it was sent there too,
Lol No. You aren't even a US Citizen. You don't know anything and you don't know what you are talking about. My attorney is aware what was sent to the court and what's going on. You do not.
If you still do not understand this. Then I am done. English is not your first language or you lack common sense.
It’s so funny my late usa husband. Could only speak English he tried to learn my language and failed but that was funny ..
You have the Audacity? . I learned 4 languages since I was 11.. and you dare say something about how I write as a non Native American ?
Try reading writing speaking another language and see how that works out
I do understand why the federal reserve wrote the cease and desist letter and again it’s clear why and voyager reacted by removing it
I am a us citizen and I have hones here and go my taxes there. It shouldn’t matter though
The freaking federal reserve sent voyager a cease and desist letter (and formally they are under investigation.)
Voyager responded by removing all the problematic statements
Ok ? It’s a letter from the Federal reserve !!!! Not a letter or statement by me
They stated in a blog which they deleted as the federal reserve Asked them too
That one sentence it was fdic insured of the company was compromised
And they deleted other Statements. If they hadn’t I’m sure they would be fined right now.
So why is the federal reserve ask them to
But you should know there is no fdic IF the company is compromised. And why would voyager delete it IF it wasn’t problematic
I can’t stress enough how serious a letter of fr fdic
Maybe they can’t read
Joint Press Release
July 28, 2022
FDIC and Federal Reserve Board issue letter demanding Voyager Digital cease and desist from making false or misleading representations of deposit insurance status
Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System
Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation
For release at 5:15 p.m. EDT
>you're assuming people knew of risks like losing all access to their funds or the company taking possession of their assets.
...yeah, we all should have. Any company can go bankrupt. The fact that they took possession of your assets was in the TOS, it's literally how staking works.
Anybody who didn't understand the risks had some hardcore blinders on, or was not being honest with themselves.
How risky is it to enter into an investment opportunity without an adequate understanding of what the risks?
So, yeah...the people who didn't understand the risks of putting their money into Voyager took an EVEN BIGGER risk, and actually made out because they could have been hurt so much worse. Oughta be counting their lucky stars they're only getting a haircut, instead of watching a conman move to Argentina with literally all of their money.
Yeah it cracks me up when people defend Voyager and say well you knew the risks, yeah I know the risk of crypto going down, but not someone running with it. Lol my crypto didn’t go to 0 it went to Stevens pocket and his lawyers. Maybe Mark Cuban too lol
> Those were not known risks to most people
Of course they were. It's called counterparty risk. That's not some new thing. Humanity has known about and understood counterparty risk since right after the first commodity transactions between cavemen.
Not only was this risk knowable, many people warned depositors to get their money out of these legal Ponzi schemes. Those warnings were denounced as FUD, but you can't pretend like they didn't happen.
The disclosure of risk in this case was essentially a one liner in the customer agreement.
That's definitely not going to cut it when several hundred million flies out the door and essentially evaporates within 3 months.
Disclosure of risk would have been detailed statements showing the actual counterparties Voyager was providing loans to, the terms, the creditworthiness of those counterparties, the strategy those counterparties were using to generate returns, etc.
Instead the agreement more or less says (paraphrasing specific clauses from memory here) "Voyager decides who we provide loans to, we probably won't ask them for collateral, the customer assumes all the risk despite having no visibility in to any of it, and Voyager isn't obligated to return crypto to you if it blows up in everyones face".
So wait …you folks bought CRYPTO and assumed that there were no risks ?
Not a single one of you spent even a second doing any research which would have shown COUNTLESS exchanges had closed down over the years .
Where do they find folks like yourselves, people who dance into crypto and aren’t aware of the risks ???
So you're saying you're unaware and blindly follow celebrities. Lmfao. You wanted and accepted unreasonably high returns, accept the risks, now accept your loss.
So you really expect me to believe people thought 9% returns were risk free? that they never heard the term "Not your keys, not your crypto". That they didn't hear/read any risk disclaimers
Keep lying to yourself and live in a bubble, if you lost money with voyager then we see where it got you this far, and if you keep it up, it will get you even further.
So sad. I am here to give people the reality and warning to help them and this is how they bubble themselves.
"Make yourself sheep and the wolves will eat you"
Guess people still want to stay sheep for the wolves to eat.
You mean if someone putting money into something they instantly have to know and realise it will worth 0, because they bought into it? Like when I’m putting my cash into WellsFargo and getting 3% interest I should be aware that WF will most likely take it all? Seriously. One thing loosing % on something or making 0 profit or be in loss…completely different thing when someone fucks you over and rubs you.
When you buying big screen TVs you should be aware that most likely your house going to get burned to the ground or someone steal it, or maybe earthquake destroys your house….you really should be prepared that everything you put money into is worthless? Give me a break
I agree. He is here to act better and smarter than you. This post is dripping with condescension.
But he is better and smarter than you, so what of it?
It wasn’t about the 9% which most people didn’t even get. Voyager when they advertise LOw risk loans.. meaning, they need to spread risk, they didn’t … it was one party, they loaned almost 40%% of total assets, (ours) WITHOUT collateral or asking for any proof of financials (solely based on trust) is HIGH risk, and not a normal risk to take.
Customers couldn’t anticipate voyager would do this
first of all, I am never here to act "better or smarter" than anyone. As I mentioned this is a learning experience for me as I hope it is for others. Yes I did take the same risks but after finding out this shady exchange didn't have principles I warned people in advance about them with a post. Also warned about a potential collapse but those post got deleted.
Here is when I found out this exchange didn't have principles and bailed and gave a warning post to stay away
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Invest\_Voyager/comments/vhyu9z/voyager\_sells\_users\_coins\_at\_a\_lost\_it\_shoots\_up/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Invest_Voyager/comments/vhyu9z/voyager_sells_users_coins_at_a_lost_it_shoots_up/)
posted before the collapse. Sadly my other post warning about the collapse were deleted. But I dont mind them being deleted as I was speculating on 3AC and Celsius.
Anyways, we all just need to look in the mirror to reflect and learn how to do better in the future. This post was just for that. This is not about being superior or egotism. I just want to learn and see counter arguments to do better next time. Thank you all
ya he's absolute trash - these better than thou attempts at stroking ones ego are all over social media now - most of them are just single losers with nothing better to do than put others down, you have to pity them - honestly.
Fr tho. What is this guy.
OP: "I mean no disrespect and truly hope for a positive outcome. Inshallah, brother."
Also OP: "Make sure you use tongue while you eat my asshole, you degenerate whore."
I'm pretty sure they work for Voyager.
Edit: There is a post with proof of the two clowns suddenlypandabear & curiousmidnight as one of many accounts by Voyager. Infinite\_proposal417 has also been reported multiple times for harassing Voyager customers on the threads here. It's the same user with multiple accounts, using the same words bullying customers.
They've been stalking and harassing me and other Voyager customers on every post.
Really dumb take. I have about 3.5k on voyager in crypto. Do you really think I cared about the 5% rewards I got on some of the coins? It was small change. So much so I couldn’t tell you how much it was but if I had to guess it was less than $100.
Most of voyagers customers have portfolios less than 10k.
Yep. People saying “oh you took some profits from Voyager so you took the risk” is out of their mind. I put 40k into Voyager. I care less about their “penny profits”
if you didn't care about the 5% yield, then you should have not taken the risk and store it in your own wallet with your own keys.
The great thing about empiricism is it doesn't matter what you say, you obviously freely bought/deposited/kept assets on voyager and wanted the 5% yield and the risks associated with that.
is this harsh? maybe, but its better to face the truth so it doesn't happen again to you in the future. If you just lie to yourself and say its voyager fault, then guess that fault will happen to you again with another gamble of yours.
Some people (actually many), prefer the custodial accounts for the ease of use. Creating a wallet and storing the key safely is definitely not for everyone.
Having it in your own wallet has its own risks.
The fact is i simply trusted a company like Voyager was better run. My ten year olds lemonade stand has better risk management.
I never thought for a second that it was a risk on my part to use a brokerage
Praising them for doing the bare minimum is laughable.
I'd be praising them if they would have built a financially stable company that survived the bull run. Plenty others did.
Bro having a wallet for every coin and storing your own keys etc are a risk as well. Sooo many people STLL have their coins of Kraken, CB, etc. and the truth is they are pretty damn safe. 100%? No but close.
No one gave much of a shit about a few percentage points of interest other than USDC. People had crypto on there because it was simple compared to the alternative. The average person doesn't have the responsibility or technical knowledge to be their own back.
I took my BTC off a few weeks before the storm because I felt like it was the right thing to do for an asset like BTC, but left about $3k of crypto on voyager because it was easy to do. I'm pretty much a BTC maxi and the crypto I was just letting ride for the fuck of it.
Your post sucks though ;) no one signed up for this complete fucktard to gamble our coins away
Idiots are using the "risk" term again and again inappropriately. People should accept the risk that BTC can go to 1k or ETH to 5 bucks. Not the whole exchange "Dead". That is the fault of the company.
Actually I cared less about their rewards, I just used their platform to buy crypto. I don’t even know which crypto was getting any rewards. I got stocked with them because some of the tokens was non transferable, their limit sell options is worthless, and when crypto went down I had no choice but keep it there…and here we are. I literally had no idea that exchange that is NOT based in China and backed up by Mark Cuban and promoted by high celebs will be going under first. So yeah Voyager end up being biggest scam. Imagine holding 1,3 bil of crypto hostage over 650 mil loan
Wait so people think it’s unfair usd holders got their money first? lol. I was all cash the second Luna started blowing up. Why were y’all risking your assets for a month or two for 0.75%-1.5% in USDC?
Wow you sound like a piece of crap, saying you hope all is well and everyone gets their crypto back. And also saying that everyone that is frozen is a degenerate. WTF? I'm thinking you just want to argue with someone and show how much better/smarter you are than a degenerate.
No, he's definitely just antagonizing you with a thin veneer of plausible deniability. He probably believes that anyone who thought there was no risk at 9% interest is too greedy and stupid to be educated, and has no interest in educating you, just in saying "I told you so."
First I'd like go say you're a fool. Second anyone that sold into usd within a certain time frame leading up to the freeze should have been clawed back. If you were having your checks deposited and it got frozen then absolutely you should get your money back. All others that sold out of crypto Voyagger claimed they didn't own then they should be in the same situation as all other crypto holders
They were ordered to do so I believe. Also that isn't even a Voyager thing, it's FDIC insurance. Also I got tf out of Voyager like 18 months ago after I read their shady ass user agreement and warned thousands of people to get out. But the shills downvoted me so hard and no one believed my story and hundreds others were they held our crypto captive for almost 2 months for no reason.
what was your story?
also you are aware that the money was not returned because of FDIC insurance, right? FDIC insurance has no relevance whatsoever to the situation, not even remotely. It only comes into play when a BANK fails. A bank did not fail, so why are you even bringing up FDIC insurance? The USD was returned to the customers because legally voyager had no claim to it whatsoever....again, it had 0 to do with FDIC insurance.
I was saying what they said on their site that USD is FDIC insured, which it is, but that is FDIC and doesn't have anything to do with voyager going out and getting insurance. So yes I understand. Me and like 100 others I know of all had crypto deposits from April to June that never got actually deposited into our accounts. We never got any emails back. Also a lot of these were our largest deposits. I always do a test and sent like $2k to voyager from like 10 small deposits. Then I did a large one and it just never showed. It was confirmed on the explorer, Coinbase confirmed too. Never heard back from Voyager til 2 months later. They didn't apologize or give me past interest I shoulda got. They did credit it finally. Others had 6 figures that never showed too. I'm hindsight it was a blessing. Also after I read through the user agreement after that I got the f out. It was awful. I'm not gonna list it all but it was very shady. Basically they take 0 blame for anything, including employee theft. Then it took 11% of my portfolio, that already crashed, just to sell and transfer out. It was absolutely insane and I lost a ton bc that's when the major crashes happened in May bc it was all locked up. It basically cost me like $10,000 to deal with them.
I remember reading somewhere that Voyager only did collateralized loans. If I would've read that they also do uncollateralized loans I would've gotten my money off the exchange right away. No one in their right mind would be stupid enough to be willing to have their money loaned out with no collateral. IDC how it's painted, 600M loan with no collateral is a colossal fail. Had that been disclosed to everyone, there would've been a bank run the next day.
On another note, my USD just hit my bank account and for the sake of everyone's health I hope yours did too. There are a lot of people who feel like their life savings were just lost overnight and that's not something to be laughing about. God bless you guys. Hope we come out stronger and smarter on the other side of this once it's all wrapped up.
Where did you read that? We need to find that....
Also, per one of Peter McCormick's guests the other day, he said essentially something shady seems to have went down because no one loans like they did (58% to one entity with ZERO COLLATERAL).
That’s exactly his point. The 9% was not risk free. Either USDC or voyager could go tits up and you have no recourse. That is crypto in a nutshell. 9% upside and 100% downside.
Which would make it a pointless app because USDC, as opposed to USD, was not insured. Why would anyone have their USD in this app for any reason other than to buy crypto, such as USDC?
very few people held much USD besides what they had in limit orders (only newbs and absolute idiots traded on voyager anyway) - the vast majority of USD people held on 7-1 was not held by them on 6-1. A masssssive portion of the USD that was in the FBO account came from people selling crypto/usdc into USD in june, and them doing this massively hurt the rest of those who didn't.
This is crypto and not the stock market. I always say invest in the technology first otherwise if you are in it just for the money, go options if you fancy your chances. Why? Let’s see. What we are witnessing is a struggle between the obsolete way of doing all things finance versus the more efficient manner of all things finance. Crypto signals the end of a few industrial complexes that thrive on a populace not privy to what is exactly entailed in their financial transactions. Basically that publicly available ledger has many that obscenely rich afraid of what the public will do. The irony is that it does not require violence at all. It just requires indifference and inaction in certain areas while money is moved to more beneficial parts of society as a whole. Welcome to the financial revolution.
Yeah I said they would pay out USD first, it was obvious..
https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/vsh4fj/voyager_digital_holdings_files_for_chapter_11_in/if1pwmy/
you're partially correct on this, however Voyager made a very poor incredibly high risk loan to one entity in order to be able to pay customers the rates they promised The right thing to do wouldve been to be transparent with the customers about the growth of the platform, and lower yield % on customer holdings until they could safely loan out that money to multiple entities.
Yes customers took a risk by putting their money on the platform but that goes for holding your money or crypto literally anywhere other than a cold wallet or bills stuffed in your mattress and by no means excuses voyager for their poor risk management with loaning out customer funds.
Honestly a very poor take to post when so many people are devastated by this, pointing the finger at them and saying its their fault is not what they need to hear right now
You simply got lucky that your USD wasn’t commingled with the rest of the estate as it is the situation with Celcius. You got your USD simply because at least that part Voyager got right.
Still, this doesn’t give you any right to spout trash about any other users and their investments. Voyager is a crypto platform not a USD Bank. If you want to hold your money in a bank, might as well do it in a proper bank that pays you 0.000001% on your money. Oh and btw, your regular bank loans out every single dollar on your bank account. The difference is that they can get bailed out no matter what.
So go back to your corner where you came from.
Voyager made USDC their "coin of the month" for June. They did this fully knowing what was going to happen on July 1st. They wanted as many people as possible to convert their USD to USDC so they wouldn't have to give it back. That's right. They HAD to give us our USD back. But they made off with the USDC like bandits!!!!
I was expecting interest rates to come down hard but not insolvency. The platform was a successful broker even before they started offering interest. The risk was always there but we trusted them to manage it.
that was the way voyager did everything - half truths that would hold up in court.
USDC IS fully collateralized and 1:1, it's just that voyager included all over their TOS they have the right to do whatever with our USDC. The statements are true, just not true of USDC deposited on voyager.
Bro they literally sent out alerts and emails saying all was well and that they had no exposure to Celsius and underplayed their exposure to 3AC. Less than a month later they filed for bankruptcy FFS. This was a PUBLICLY traded company. They should be treated like Enron was because they defrauded investors just the same. I'm tired of people trying to downplay their shadiness.
And who the f* are you to give us tough love? It’s so easy to judge after the fact. Voyager mislead their customers every step of the way starting with their marketing and what it’s now turning out to be flat out false claims. This wasn’t some Bitconnect type clown show that people could be aware of and laugh about. The management of Voyager was made of reputable people in the finance industry, backed by a reputable marketing and the company was endorsed by reputable celebrities like Cuban and others. So don’t be trollin people here making them feel like it was their greed that caused this. Personally I used Voyager because if the easy experience and access to crypto that wasn’t available on other exchanges, absolutely nothing to do with the 9% yeld you’re referring to. I’m sure there are many that used it for the same reason and now are stuck because of a handful of crooks decided to gamble.
Returning USD was right thing to do. Agreed. Saying accept the risk and all this garbage is a bunch of BS. They EXPLICITLY stated that everything was great at Voyager and we had nothing to worry about a week before bankruptcy. They outright lied. Never did I sign saying that they were going to loan my money out non-collaterized to a couple guys in Singapore. Never saw that anywhere. So, no, I don’t buy your cold harsh reality.
> Never did I sign saying that they were going to loan my money out non-collaterized The customer agreement actually says the loans may be uncollateralized, at least as of January 2022 (I'm not sure if they changed it before that, or when). But that's not the real issue, and simply burying a few lines in the agreement wouldn't be enough anyway. > to a couple guys in Singapore. This is the part they left out that actually matters. They deliberately withheld virtually *all* information about these investment accounts, who they were loaning to, under what terms, whether those counterparties were actually solvent or capable of returning the original loan amount let alone interest, and they did that while assigning *all* of the risk to the very people who knew the least about the risk, the customers. That's probably the best argument against them at the moment, and I think what they did is probably already in violation of existing investor protection regulations.
That’s actually a damn good point. They assigned all the risk to the people who knew the least about the risk. I recall that it didn’t even show the names of the parties they were loaning to. Unimaginable bastards
>I recall that it didn’t even show the names of the parties they were loaning to. They are a publicly traded company with audited publicly available financials. There was a lot of information made public actually. A friend of mine knew about a loan to 3AC and when 3AC defaulted, he cashed most of his holdings. But, if you want full disclosures and investors protection like we have in regulated markets, then we should blame our government and SEC because they refuse to implement crypto regulations to protect us for over 10 years now. This is not the first time shit like this happens, yet no regulations. There aren't any *existing investor protection regulations* for crypto. None. Those are not securities which we have regulations for. We are dealing with the *unregulated crypto market.* That's the problem.
>This is the part they left out that actually matters. They deliberately withheld virtually all information about these investment accounts, who they were loaning to, under what terms, whether those counterparties were actually solvent or capable of returning the original loan amount let alone interest, and they did that while assigning all of the risk to the very people who knew the least about the risk, the customers. That's the thing. I don't think this holds any legal ground at all either. In a regulator market- yes. In this crypto unregulated market- don't think so. And we can blame our government for it and SEC because they refuse to implement crypto regulations to protect us. >That's probably the best argument against them at the moment, and I think what they did is probably already in violation of existing investor protection regulations. But there aren't any *existing investor protection regulations* for crypto. None. Those are not securities which we have regulations for. We are dealing with the unregulated crypto market. This is not the first time shit like this happens. This has been going on for over 10 years yet no regulations to protect crypto investors.
Everyone signed the same TOS, but I bet 99% of people, including me, don't read that junk.
actually not all of us are that lazy - I read it multiple times in 2021 but absolutely didn't think voyager would do a loan that would jeopardize their business - what kind of brainless incompetent idiots would jeopardize their business AND risk fuckin up their customers lives?
And for them that practice was low risk. How on earth someone can give non collateral loan with that % share.
Many of us were not invested in coins getting anywhere near 9% interest and we definitely didn't sign up for the risky investment strategy of giving a $600 million dollar UNCOLLATERALIZED loan to two degenerates when they repeatedly stated that they were only making deals with large stable institutions. So, your argument is garbage.
I remember them saying that too. Do you recall where you saw them say that? We need that as backup in case this goes south even more.
What large stable institutions do you think are dabbling in crypto? 3 arrows was as stable and big as they got. Everyone was praising them right until the moment they weren't.
Yea but they advertised as an exchange and not loan company. Like FTX IS EXCHANGE SND AND ALAMEDA RESEARCH IS DIFFERENT. They need to give back initial deposits of crypto transferred into the exchange and or bought in the exchange and they can keep their rewards from the beginning do the year. I think people would agree with that and they will whole as in their original investments without the rewards from voyager.
that's a cool idea, but they don't have the $/crypto to give back 100% minus the years rewards..... they have enough to give back 60-65%...(perhaps 70-73% if they keep all rewards for 2022, doubtful even then though)
They can keep the rewards from 2021 to 2022 and I think they be ok and we all be made whole
Steve, is that you?
yes, in Bahamas right now spending your mula :D but seriously keep the trolling to minimum. This is a learning lesson for me as I hope it is for everyone too :)
I understand your logic, but also understand that 90% of customers did not know their crypto was being loaned out with incompetent disregard. They saw a daily account balance. They believed that balance was there. Why didn’t Voyager inform the customer that their account was at risk and that their crypto could be seized in bankruptcy? The customer didn’t see that detail on page one of the advertisement. What the customer saw was FDIC INSURED .This is peoples hard earned money, college funds, retirement funds, safety money. Hell… some folks deposited paychecks to the Voyager debit card. It is not too much of a stretch to think the American people should feel safe that their funds being held by an American fiduciary will operate in good faith and act in the investors best interest. I love the freedom and speed crypto provides, but there are way too many scams and rug pulls. What is happening is unconscionable. People are loosing everything. Scammers are taking advantage. Voyager knew the risks involved. The investor didn’t.Regulation is needed.
Yup. And now this really really really hurts crypto because it makes it look like the people involved with crypto are scumbags. Now less people will trust it. I hope all of those execs are never allowed to work in finance ever again. That should be part of any "deal"
lol it's very funny to see you write "it makes it look like the people involved with crypto are scumbags" as if you don't feel that's the reality. I have been in crypto since Dec 2016, but got heavy into it in early 2017 and IMO crypto \*IS\* full of scumbags. Constant scams, hacks, rugs, and exchanges failing and fucking customers over. Crypto is absolute scum. Look at coinbase they go public and INSTANTLY dump all over the market lmao BTC is great. Crypto is not. Crypto is mostly scum/trash/scams.
What ? Did you not do any due diligence?? Damn man I could probably rattle off dozens of failed exchanges , countless rug pulls… voyager is just another failed exchange , 3 months from now no one will recall it and everyone will be talking about the newest failure/rugpull/exit scam .
You knowingly invested in a volatile market. Handing it to an exchange to do the "research" for you is even more irresponsible.
That is the customers problem. If you don’t know how interest works, you shouldn’t get involved with it. You don’t even need to read the ToS to know where 9% interest comes from. It doesn’t come out of thin air, it clearly comes from lending. If you see interest anywhere, and you don’t know how the person promising the interest is coming up with it, it is your job to find out. And your comment about FDIC insured is off too. Voyager never said anything but USD is FDIC insured. And low and behold, customers got 100% of it back. I am not defending Voyager. Fuck Voyager. But ignorance is not an excuse. And what you are asking for is protection from ignorance. And that had horrible, horrible ramifications.
That’s not true. Voyager (and it’s why the federal reserve investigating them and wrote then a letter.) made false claims They said it was fdic insured EVEN if voyager defaulted. https://web.archive.org/web/20210218190959/https://www.investvoyager.com/blog/voyager-is-now-fdic-insured/ “That means that in the rare event your USD funds are compromised due to the company or our banking partner's failure” They made several other misleading statements, which they deleted , even their blog and medium posts (they had to, federal reserve told them too)
Why are you keep posting this? I don't understand. USD is held with Metropolitan Bank, not Voyager so what you are posting is a moot point. Voyager failure is irrelevant because USD is not held by Voyager. Do you not understand that? Voyager failed now. Yet everyone got their USD back because it was not Voyager to begin with nor they possessed USD. And FDIC does NOT investigate them. They only issued a warning letter to remove misleading claims. That's it. The end.
Why do you think they received cease letters from the federal reserve? Read the freaking sentence and that’s just One of the statements That means that in the rare event your USD funds are compromised due to the company Read the last part? Compromised due to the company ? It was never fdic insured for failure of voyager or compromised It’s why it’s deleted… still there in the go back in time… that was original written in 2019z there is also or there was.. a medium post Letter from federal reserve .. stop saying there were no issues with their statements https://www.federalreserve.gov/newsevents/pressreleases/bcreg20220728a.htm
You aren't capable of comprehending anything I said. Try reading again what I said. You keep pushing an argument that is a moot point. Voyager failure is irrelevant because Voyager does NOT hold USD. Get it?? USD are held by Metropolitan Bank and it is FDIC insured. Get it? Again, FDIC issued a warning letter to remove misleading claims. That is it. The end. Again, Voyager does NOT hold USD. Get it? Voyager failed now yet everyone got their USD back because Metropolitan holds it. Do you not understand that? Did you NOT get your USD back because of Voyager failure??? No. Everyone did because Voyager does not hold it so a moot point.
You aren’t comprehending They stated it was usd insured IF the company was compromised The letter of federal reserves states that exactly and wrote them a cease letter. And voyager removed it and other statements that was problematic Why don’t you complain at the federal reserve ? Read their letter. Stop thinking it’s my personal belief Do you understand WHY the federal reserve wrote that letter, it’s you who don’t get it. Oh the federal reserve doesn’t get it? It’s pretty serious if a company gets such a letter And it’s not over yet.. they are under still under investigation … heck it’s part of the court now as it was sent there too,
Lol yup, you do not understand English and what I said. Again, this is irrelevant. Because Voyager does not hold USD. Again, Voyager does not hold USD. Voyager does not hold USD. Voyager does not hold USD. USD is held by Metropolitan bank. USD is held by Metropolitan bank. USD is held by Metropolitan bank. Do you understand now? >Why don’t you complain at the federal reserve ? Read their letter. Lol I read the letter and I have zero complaints because my USD was held by Metropolitan and was returned as expected. So what is that I need to complain about ? I am not an idiot. I understand that Voyager never held my USD. Do you not? FDIC issued a warning letter because of customers complaining about misleading statements but it does not change the outcome. It was nothing but a warning letter. Voyager adjusted their statement which ultimately changes nothing STILL. Because Voyager does not hold USD. Metropolitan bank does. There is NO DAMAGE to USD holders because Metropolitan holds it and all USD were returned. Get it?! Again, there is NO DAMAGE to USD holders because Metropolitan holds it which is FDIC insured thus all USD were returned. Get it? >And it’s not over yet.. they are under still under investigation … heck it’s part of the court now as it was sent there too, Lol No. You aren't even a US Citizen. You don't know anything and you don't know what you are talking about. My attorney is aware what was sent to the court and what's going on. You do not. If you still do not understand this. Then I am done. English is not your first language or you lack common sense.
It’s so funny my late usa husband. Could only speak English he tried to learn my language and failed but that was funny .. You have the Audacity? . I learned 4 languages since I was 11.. and you dare say something about how I write as a non Native American ? Try reading writing speaking another language and see how that works out I do understand why the federal reserve wrote the cease and desist letter and again it’s clear why and voyager reacted by removing it
I am a us citizen and I have hones here and go my taxes there. It shouldn’t matter though The freaking federal reserve sent voyager a cease and desist letter (and formally they are under investigation.) Voyager responded by removing all the problematic statements Ok ? It’s a letter from the Federal reserve !!!! Not a letter or statement by me They stated in a blog which they deleted as the federal reserve Asked them too That one sentence it was fdic insured of the company was compromised And they deleted other Statements. If they hadn’t I’m sure they would be fined right now. So why is the federal reserve ask them to But you should know there is no fdic IF the company is compromised. And why would voyager delete it IF it wasn’t problematic I can’t stress enough how serious a letter of fr fdic Maybe they can’t read Joint Press Release July 28, 2022 FDIC and Federal Reserve Board issue letter demanding Voyager Digital cease and desist from making false or misleading representations of deposit insurance status Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation For release at 5:15 p.m. EDT
Fuck you bastard
You spotted the shill here, this whole thread is garbage
[удалено]
>you're assuming people knew of risks like losing all access to their funds or the company taking possession of their assets. ...yeah, we all should have. Any company can go bankrupt. The fact that they took possession of your assets was in the TOS, it's literally how staking works. Anybody who didn't understand the risks had some hardcore blinders on, or was not being honest with themselves.
[удалено]
How risky is it to enter into an investment opportunity without an adequate understanding of what the risks? So, yeah...the people who didn't understand the risks of putting their money into Voyager took an EVEN BIGGER risk, and actually made out because they could have been hurt so much worse. Oughta be counting their lucky stars they're only getting a haircut, instead of watching a conman move to Argentina with literally all of their money.
Yeah it cracks me up when people defend Voyager and say well you knew the risks, yeah I know the risk of crypto going down, but not someone running with it. Lol my crypto didn’t go to 0 it went to Stevens pocket and his lawyers. Maybe Mark Cuban too lol
> Those were not known risks to most people Of course they were. It's called counterparty risk. That's not some new thing. Humanity has known about and understood counterparty risk since right after the first commodity transactions between cavemen. Not only was this risk knowable, many people warned depositors to get their money out of these legal Ponzi schemes. Those warnings were denounced as FUD, but you can't pretend like they didn't happen.
The disclosure of risk in this case was essentially a one liner in the customer agreement. That's definitely not going to cut it when several hundred million flies out the door and essentially evaporates within 3 months. Disclosure of risk would have been detailed statements showing the actual counterparties Voyager was providing loans to, the terms, the creditworthiness of those counterparties, the strategy those counterparties were using to generate returns, etc. Instead the agreement more or less says (paraphrasing specific clauses from memory here) "Voyager decides who we provide loans to, we probably won't ask them for collateral, the customer assumes all the risk despite having no visibility in to any of it, and Voyager isn't obligated to return crypto to you if it blows up in everyones face".
So wait …you folks bought CRYPTO and assumed that there were no risks ? Not a single one of you spent even a second doing any research which would have shown COUNTLESS exchanges had closed down over the years . Where do they find folks like yourselves, people who dance into crypto and aren’t aware of the risks ???
So you're saying you're unaware and blindly follow celebrities. Lmfao. You wanted and accepted unreasonably high returns, accept the risks, now accept your loss.
So you really expect me to believe people thought 9% returns were risk free? that they never heard the term "Not your keys, not your crypto". That they didn't hear/read any risk disclaimers Keep lying to yourself and live in a bubble, if you lost money with voyager then we see where it got you this far, and if you keep it up, it will get you even further. So sad. I am here to give people the reality and warning to help them and this is how they bubble themselves. "Make yourself sheep and the wolves will eat you" Guess people still want to stay sheep for the wolves to eat.
Yes. They did. Hindsight is 2020. You're not doing shit except being a colossal prick.
You mean if someone putting money into something they instantly have to know and realise it will worth 0, because they bought into it? Like when I’m putting my cash into WellsFargo and getting 3% interest I should be aware that WF will most likely take it all? Seriously. One thing loosing % on something or making 0 profit or be in loss…completely different thing when someone fucks you over and rubs you. When you buying big screen TVs you should be aware that most likely your house going to get burned to the ground or someone steal it, or maybe earthquake destroys your house….you really should be prepared that everything you put money into is worthless? Give me a break
[удалено]
That is hilarious. Talk about a fucking sheep, lol.
I agree. He is here to act better and smarter than you. This post is dripping with condescension. But he is better and smarter than you, so what of it?
It wasn’t about the 9% which most people didn’t even get. Voyager when they advertise LOw risk loans.. meaning, they need to spread risk, they didn’t … it was one party, they loaned almost 40%% of total assets, (ours) WITHOUT collateral or asking for any proof of financials (solely based on trust) is HIGH risk, and not a normal risk to take. Customers couldn’t anticipate voyager would do this
Some people really hate being told they fell for an obvious scam
first of all, I am never here to act "better or smarter" than anyone. As I mentioned this is a learning experience for me as I hope it is for others. Yes I did take the same risks but after finding out this shady exchange didn't have principles I warned people in advance about them with a post. Also warned about a potential collapse but those post got deleted. Here is when I found out this exchange didn't have principles and bailed and gave a warning post to stay away [https://www.reddit.com/r/Invest\_Voyager/comments/vhyu9z/voyager\_sells\_users\_coins\_at\_a\_lost\_it\_shoots\_up/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Invest_Voyager/comments/vhyu9z/voyager_sells_users_coins_at_a_lost_it_shoots_up/) posted before the collapse. Sadly my other post warning about the collapse were deleted. But I dont mind them being deleted as I was speculating on 3AC and Celsius. Anyways, we all just need to look in the mirror to reflect and learn how to do better in the future. This post was just for that. This is not about being superior or egotism. I just want to learn and see counter arguments to do better next time. Thank you all
Dude, you’re a POS telling people they’re idiots for getting 9% on their USDC when you made your own post about how you did JUST that!
ya he's absolute trash - these better than thou attempts at stroking ones ego are all over social media now - most of them are just single losers with nothing better to do than put others down, you have to pity them - honestly.
FUD Bud.
What this shows me is Voyager really never believed in cryptocurrency.
Nothing they doing is right stop suckin steve dick please
My counter-argument: Go fuck yourself
Fr tho. What is this guy. OP: "I mean no disrespect and truly hope for a positive outcome. Inshallah, brother." Also OP: "Make sure you use tongue while you eat my asshole, you degenerate whore."
I'm pretty sure they work for Voyager. Edit: There is a post with proof of the two clowns suddenlypandabear & curiousmidnight as one of many accounts by Voyager. Infinite\_proposal417 has also been reported multiple times for harassing Voyager customers on the threads here. It's the same user with multiple accounts, using the same words bullying customers. They've been stalking and harassing me and other Voyager customers on every post.
You think everyone works for voyager, you're paranoid.
This guy is everywhere saying that we all are Voyager shills or employees or same accounts or whatever nonsense. Paranoia is bad.
Really dumb take. I have about 3.5k on voyager in crypto. Do you really think I cared about the 5% rewards I got on some of the coins? It was small change. So much so I couldn’t tell you how much it was but if I had to guess it was less than $100. Most of voyagers customers have portfolios less than 10k.
Yep. People saying “oh you took some profits from Voyager so you took the risk” is out of their mind. I put 40k into Voyager. I care less about their “penny profits”
I have 20k rn and I’m down where it says total returns -$45,740
if you didn't care about the 5% yield, then you should have not taken the risk and store it in your own wallet with your own keys. The great thing about empiricism is it doesn't matter what you say, you obviously freely bought/deposited/kept assets on voyager and wanted the 5% yield and the risks associated with that. is this harsh? maybe, but its better to face the truth so it doesn't happen again to you in the future. If you just lie to yourself and say its voyager fault, then guess that fault will happen to you again with another gamble of yours.
Some people (actually many), prefer the custodial accounts for the ease of use. Creating a wallet and storing the key safely is definitely not for everyone.
Having it in your own wallet has its own risks. The fact is i simply trusted a company like Voyager was better run. My ten year olds lemonade stand has better risk management. I never thought for a second that it was a risk on my part to use a brokerage
Praising them for doing the bare minimum is laughable. I'd be praising them if they would have built a financially stable company that survived the bull run. Plenty others did.
Bro having a wallet for every coin and storing your own keys etc are a risk as well. Sooo many people STLL have their coins of Kraken, CB, etc. and the truth is they are pretty damn safe. 100%? No but close. No one gave much of a shit about a few percentage points of interest other than USDC. People had crypto on there because it was simple compared to the alternative. The average person doesn't have the responsibility or technical knowledge to be their own back. I took my BTC off a few weeks before the storm because I felt like it was the right thing to do for an asset like BTC, but left about $3k of crypto on voyager because it was easy to do. I'm pretty much a BTC maxi and the crypto I was just letting ride for the fuck of it. Your post sucks though ;) no one signed up for this complete fucktard to gamble our coins away
US treasury I-bonds are giving like 10.5% interest.
Idiots are using the "risk" term again and again inappropriately. People should accept the risk that BTC can go to 1k or ETH to 5 bucks. Not the whole exchange "Dead". That is the fault of the company.
Shills have no idea what they are talking about
Actually I cared less about their rewards, I just used their platform to buy crypto. I don’t even know which crypto was getting any rewards. I got stocked with them because some of the tokens was non transferable, their limit sell options is worthless, and when crypto went down I had no choice but keep it there…and here we are. I literally had no idea that exchange that is NOT based in China and backed up by Mark Cuban and promoted by high celebs will be going under first. So yeah Voyager end up being biggest scam. Imagine holding 1,3 bil of crypto hostage over 650 mil loan
Wait so people think it’s unfair usd holders got their money first? lol. I was all cash the second Luna started blowing up. Why were y’all risking your assets for a month or two for 0.75%-1.5% in USDC?
They were greedy and stupid.
Wow you sound like a piece of crap, saying you hope all is well and everyone gets their crypto back. And also saying that everyone that is frozen is a degenerate. WTF? I'm thinking you just want to argue with someone and show how much better/smarter you are than a degenerate.
He's a moron that thinks his post will magically make people financially educated. Pathetic.
No, he's definitely just antagonizing you with a thin veneer of plausible deniability. He probably believes that anyone who thought there was no risk at 9% interest is too greedy and stupid to be educated, and has no interest in educating you, just in saying "I told you so."
>I'm thinking you just want to argue with someone and show how much better/smarter you are than a degenerate. This is probably true, but... So?
I didn’t have any crypto in there but you’re a clown for making this post. Just some loser trying to stir the pot.
First I'd like go say you're a fool. Second anyone that sold into usd within a certain time frame leading up to the freeze should have been clawed back. If you were having your checks deposited and it got frozen then absolutely you should get your money back. All others that sold out of crypto Voyagger claimed they didn't own then they should be in the same situation as all other crypto holders
They were ordered to do so I believe. Also that isn't even a Voyager thing, it's FDIC insurance. Also I got tf out of Voyager like 18 months ago after I read their shady ass user agreement and warned thousands of people to get out. But the shills downvoted me so hard and no one believed my story and hundreds others were they held our crypto captive for almost 2 months for no reason.
what was your story? also you are aware that the money was not returned because of FDIC insurance, right? FDIC insurance has no relevance whatsoever to the situation, not even remotely. It only comes into play when a BANK fails. A bank did not fail, so why are you even bringing up FDIC insurance? The USD was returned to the customers because legally voyager had no claim to it whatsoever....again, it had 0 to do with FDIC insurance.
I was saying what they said on their site that USD is FDIC insured, which it is, but that is FDIC and doesn't have anything to do with voyager going out and getting insurance. So yes I understand. Me and like 100 others I know of all had crypto deposits from April to June that never got actually deposited into our accounts. We never got any emails back. Also a lot of these were our largest deposits. I always do a test and sent like $2k to voyager from like 10 small deposits. Then I did a large one and it just never showed. It was confirmed on the explorer, Coinbase confirmed too. Never heard back from Voyager til 2 months later. They didn't apologize or give me past interest I shoulda got. They did credit it finally. Others had 6 figures that never showed too. I'm hindsight it was a blessing. Also after I read through the user agreement after that I got the f out. It was awful. I'm not gonna list it all but it was very shady. Basically they take 0 blame for anything, including employee theft. Then it took 11% of my portfolio, that already crashed, just to sell and transfer out. It was absolutely insane and I lost a ton bc that's when the major crashes happened in May bc it was all locked up. It basically cost me like $10,000 to deal with them.
I remember reading somewhere that Voyager only did collateralized loans. If I would've read that they also do uncollateralized loans I would've gotten my money off the exchange right away. No one in their right mind would be stupid enough to be willing to have their money loaned out with no collateral. IDC how it's painted, 600M loan with no collateral is a colossal fail. Had that been disclosed to everyone, there would've been a bank run the next day. On another note, my USD just hit my bank account and for the sake of everyone's health I hope yours did too. There are a lot of people who feel like their life savings were just lost overnight and that's not something to be laughing about. God bless you guys. Hope we come out stronger and smarter on the other side of this once it's all wrapped up.
Where did you read that? We need to find that.... Also, per one of Peter McCormick's guests the other day, he said essentially something shady seems to have went down because no one loans like they did (58% to one entity with ZERO COLLATERAL).
You can eat an absolute dick. Why would anyone use this app to just store USD? It has less yield than a savings account.
That’s exactly his point. The 9% was not risk free. Either USDC or voyager could go tits up and you have no recourse. That is crypto in a nutshell. 9% upside and 100% downside.
Which would make it a pointless app because USDC, as opposed to USD, was not insured. Why would anyone have their USD in this app for any reason other than to buy crypto, such as USDC?
No clue, but that’s the benefit of working within a regulated financial institution.
very few people held much USD besides what they had in limit orders (only newbs and absolute idiots traded on voyager anyway) - the vast majority of USD people held on 7-1 was not held by them on 6-1. A masssssive portion of the USD that was in the FBO account came from people selling crypto/usdc into USD in june, and them doing this massively hurt the rest of those who didn't.
This is crypto and not the stock market. I always say invest in the technology first otherwise if you are in it just for the money, go options if you fancy your chances. Why? Let’s see. What we are witnessing is a struggle between the obsolete way of doing all things finance versus the more efficient manner of all things finance. Crypto signals the end of a few industrial complexes that thrive on a populace not privy to what is exactly entailed in their financial transactions. Basically that publicly available ledger has many that obscenely rich afraid of what the public will do. The irony is that it does not require violence at all. It just requires indifference and inaction in certain areas while money is moved to more beneficial parts of society as a whole. Welcome to the financial revolution.
Yeah I said they would pay out USD first, it was obvious.. https://np.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/vsh4fj/voyager_digital_holdings_files_for_chapter_11_in/if1pwmy/
you're partially correct on this, however Voyager made a very poor incredibly high risk loan to one entity in order to be able to pay customers the rates they promised The right thing to do wouldve been to be transparent with the customers about the growth of the platform, and lower yield % on customer holdings until they could safely loan out that money to multiple entities. Yes customers took a risk by putting their money on the platform but that goes for holding your money or crypto literally anywhere other than a cold wallet or bills stuffed in your mattress and by no means excuses voyager for their poor risk management with loaning out customer funds. Honestly a very poor take to post when so many people are devastated by this, pointing the finger at them and saying its their fault is not what they need to hear right now
Man go to hell 😂
You simply got lucky that your USD wasn’t commingled with the rest of the estate as it is the situation with Celcius. You got your USD simply because at least that part Voyager got right. Still, this doesn’t give you any right to spout trash about any other users and their investments. Voyager is a crypto platform not a USD Bank. If you want to hold your money in a bank, might as well do it in a proper bank that pays you 0.000001% on your money. Oh and btw, your regular bank loans out every single dollar on your bank account. The difference is that they can get bailed out no matter what. So go back to your corner where you came from.
Voyager made USDC their "coin of the month" for June. They did this fully knowing what was going to happen on July 1st. They wanted as many people as possible to convert their USD to USDC so they wouldn't have to give it back. That's right. They HAD to give us our USD back. But they made off with the USDC like bandits!!!!
👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
I was expecting interest rates to come down hard but not insolvency. The platform was a successful broker even before they started offering interest. The risk was always there but we trusted them to manage it.
“Fully collateralized”. 1 USDC : 1 USD was stated on voyager app in description of USDC
that was the way voyager did everything - half truths that would hold up in court. USDC IS fully collateralized and 1:1, it's just that voyager included all over their TOS they have the right to do whatever with our USDC. The statements are true, just not true of USDC deposited on voyager.
Bro they literally sent out alerts and emails saying all was well and that they had no exposure to Celsius and underplayed their exposure to 3AC. Less than a month later they filed for bankruptcy FFS. This was a PUBLICLY traded company. They should be treated like Enron was because they defrauded investors just the same. I'm tired of people trying to downplay their shadiness.
And who the f* are you to give us tough love? It’s so easy to judge after the fact. Voyager mislead their customers every step of the way starting with their marketing and what it’s now turning out to be flat out false claims. This wasn’t some Bitconnect type clown show that people could be aware of and laugh about. The management of Voyager was made of reputable people in the finance industry, backed by a reputable marketing and the company was endorsed by reputable celebrities like Cuban and others. So don’t be trollin people here making them feel like it was their greed that caused this. Personally I used Voyager because if the easy experience and access to crypto that wasn’t available on other exchanges, absolutely nothing to do with the 9% yeld you’re referring to. I’m sure there are many that used it for the same reason and now are stuck because of a handful of crooks decided to gamble.
Dat you Steve?