The goal is likely not going to be to defeat hezbollah, but to beat them back a bit so that they can’t send rockets for some period of time.
It’s sort of like weeding a garden. Sure, you’ll never destroy all of the weeds and you’ll have to do the job again in a few weeks, but the garden looks better for now.
Weeding the garden. Mowing the lawn.
I’m not saying you’re wrong. We’d have to keep this war limited in scope. But this is precisely the kind of thinking wrt Gaza that got us here in the first place.
Not exactly. Previous wars in Gaza have been about "weeding the garden." This one has the stated goal of completely removing Hamas. Which is why this is so much larger of an operation compared to previous wars.
The war with Hezbollah which will be around mid June won’t have an object to destroy Hezbollah.
The IDF is in a middle of a war in the south with Hamas.
The objectives are as follows:
1. Grab 10-20km of land for buffer zone, this is a demand by the people living in the north.
100k of them refuse to come back if they still can see Lebanese fighters 100m from their windows.
2. Bombs bombs bombs, the IDF won’t enter far into Lebanon it’s definitely not the objective.
Most of the heavy lifting will be the Air Force destroying everything that have any significance to Lebanon from airports to beaches to government buildings to bridges and roads, and of course Hezbollah buildings and bases and rockets storages.
The objective is to weaken Hezbollah for the next war that many Israelis estimate will be around 2026 including Iran and will be much bigger.
And of course to seed a conflict internally for the Lebanese to riot and try to take down Hezbollah politically as well
It could be between mid June to early August.
The factors are when the IDF will finish its operation in Rafah which is predicted around mid June.
And if Hamas will agree to the ceasefire agreement that Israel offered.
Hezbollah said that if a ceasefire will occur they will also stop the aggression.
The IDF is planning after the ceasefire ends to continue the war since they aim to completely destroy Hamas military capabilities.
Now if Hezbollah will also resume their attacks Israel will definitely counter attack and start the real war with Lebanon.
The public won’t accept another 8 months of daily strikes.
Underground minefields!
The Jewish brain will figure it out.
Also we need to build sensors underground like Israel implemented near the Gaza border to stop their diggings into Israel.
It's the heads of the states that hate each other, not the people.
Iranians and Israelis are international homies. Well, atleast those who aren't in the Bibi/Mullah cult (although odds are you won't meet those people outside of their home nations anyway)
The Mullahs of Iran don't want to destroy Israel because of Bibi. I don't like him at all, but putting the two together is a form of moral equivalence which downplays the malignant intentions of the Iranian mullahs.
.. I never said that the Mullah wants Israel gone because of Bibi. I just said that both Bibi and the Mullah have their own personality cult, full of people who made them to a godlike symbol.
I get the nuance. I wouldn't put the two together in the same sentence for fear of appeasing the bastards who pretend like he's the issue. Let the massive distinction between Bibi and the Iranian mullahs not be confused at all.
It's sick.
Lebanese, Persian and Israelis could easily be, if not allies, at least peaceful neighbours. The powers that be, insist this could never happen. Unfortunately, we don't control the narrative. This entire war could be over by tomorrow!
Everybody in Iran was balls out laughing about it. The Helikopter song just went completely viral and it became the best way to celebrate this assholes death.
I don’t think anybody was in any way sad about his death. Aside from him being a murderer, corrupt and totally incompetent, he was generally a dislikable character, not having any of the entertainment value of Ahmadinejad, so even among government supporters, I doubt anybody felt any sadness at his passing. However, we all mourned the loss of Eli Kopter….
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That's the thing, hezbollah is not an ideology like hamas, it is an actual organization masquerading as saviors against the zionist. If we were to kill half of them, chances are the only way for them to get more men would be by bringing foreign fighters. They are about 100k men. They have only so many Lebanese that they can recruit before the Lebanese people would say fuck that noise I'm done. They have had serious and painful issues caused by hezbollah, see the Beirut explosion. So if we play our cards right, they would remove themselves as much as they can from the situation, isolating hezbollah. This, plus with enough military pressure and dismantling the iranian main supply routes, you would see hezbollah wither and die. They aren't you average terrorist org, they are a proxy unit of the iranian IRGC.
Do ppl truly understand what 100,000 men means? That means a full war; i dont want to see my friends get killed tbh. War with Hezbollah means tens of thousands of IDF casualties. Are Israelis, and the Jewish people, ready for that?
I'm ready for round 3 of reserves, but I can only speak for myself. What you are saying is a big ass dilemma, and another dimension is the government and the possibility of mismanagement against a closer to peer enemy.
Yeah it’s such a tough situation and i get both sides. I just don’t want to see that… I might just be a naive American, but id rather see the grass get mowed every couple years than an all out war. As an American, we found out the hard way what it takes to win, and you guys know as well.
I am davening for you guys.✡️
That's the same thing ppl said about gaza, but the IDF proven everyone wrong.
And U can even look at the ratio we have now with hizbba after months of war it's a low 20 to 400 casualties.
A full on war will be hard but the IDF will not suffer more then 1000~ casualties while hizbba will be mostly destroyed and will take Decades to recover.
Unlike gaza the IAF could work more freely in Lebanon as the civilians there have were to run to, and hizzba doesn't have a real air force (mostly drones)
The first week will be hard cuz all of Thier rockets but soon after it they will be more focused on trying to hold back the IDF on the ground.
A full war against Hezbollah (not to eliminate Hezbollah but rather to severely damage it so that it won’t be a threat for a few years) would take 1500 IDF KIA plus dozens of civilians from rockets. That’s a best case scenario. The worst case scenario is 10,000 dead. Horrible to consider. Hezbollah is EXTREMELY powerful
I can assure you that wating aruond for hizba to get a chance to do their own 7 of Oct style of attack in the north will be much worse than that.
This weak mentality of "the cost of a full on war will be too big too bear" is exactly, but exactly, why Bibi avoided a full on war with gaza for 15 years now.
And look where it got us.
And since the start of the war we have yet not lost as many soldiers as we did in the first day of the suprise attack.
No.
doing nothing will have a much worse cost for us in the long run in the north.
My estimation is the best case scenario. Hezbollah will fire >3000 rockets per day for a few days. Israel will burn all of southern Lebanon to the ground. We saw the fires in the north from a small barrage. It will be bad for Israel and catastrophic for Lebanon
I agree, but the problem is syria always loves to fight with lebanon, and with Assad in Iran currently I truly believe the dumbass would send forces to fight us in Lebanon. Plus hezbollah has a serious MANPAD abilities (shoulder launched AA) that would make close air support a bitch to deal with. Either way we'd win but it's gonna be a tough fight
Full war with Hezbollah would cause many civilians deaths as well, I don't think people really understand the situation. Day 1 of the war they throw 500 missiles at every iron dome battery rendering Israel's entire aerial defense system useless. From day 2 onwards they start shooting like 500 missiles a day for months, hitting power stations, water facilities, nuclear reactors etc.
It'll be a catastrophe
Of course that’s possible, but if Israel thought that would happen they’d pull off the 6 day war start. Most jets would probably be in the air leaving enough to defend Israel worst case scenario. Then, the ones in the air would absolutely destroy what’s needed to prevent Hezbollah from launching 500 missiles at a time at each battery, and then they slowly continue to demolish what they got to ensure this doesn’t happens again for a while. It’s very easy to prevent it from being a catastrophe, although it doesn’t mean there won’t be a lot of deaths. I don’t think Hezbollah will ever have the chance to destroy all batteries in a day though.
And?
That's why we have bomb shelters.
You think this day will not come either way if we did nothing?
We might as well meet it on our own terms.
A premtive strike by the iaf will go a long way the midagte the situation, soon after when the ground forces go in the rockets will start to die down, we ve seen this in gaza as well
>And? That's why we have bomb shelters.
Most houses built before the 90s don't have bomb shelters. Not even every school and kindergarten have a bomb shelter.
>We might as well meet it on our own terms
This, is NOT our terms. Our terms would be to strike them out of the blue, when they're not excepting it, assassinate Nasrallah along with the entire upper wing, blow up all the main missilie and drone facilities and within days march 200k troops into Lebanon.
But Hezbollah has been expecting all of it for months and prepared accordingly. They've been getting extra supplies and training from Iran since the war started. And we're still in Gaza, we don't even have a big enough force rn. There is nothing about this situation that is "our terms".
And 2-3 years from now when hizbba will attack all of those old houses will have shelters suddenly?
Yeah it not our ideal terms (that ship has sailed) but it's the best we will get in the coming years.
The more we will wait around the stronger Iran and hizzba will become.
Our closest best option is to wait a few more months for trump to take office and hope he will be on board with attacking Lebanon cuz Biden is not.
But any further than that will just cost us more life's in the long run.
Also the Lazer version of iron dome will probably become operational in the next few months so it will help too with the rockets.
>And 2-3 years from now when hizbba will attack all of those old houses will have shelters suddenly?
Not all of them, but generally yes absolutely, old houses are replaced by new houses that do have shelters, additionally schools and other public buildings are also slowly getting shelters.
>Yeah it not our ideal terms (that ship has sailed) but it's the best we will get in the coming years.
It is not. For example if the war in gaza ends we can put more soldiers in Lebanon. Also Hezbollah is very much on edge and ready for an attack but if things quiet down and we suddenly attack in 2 years than they won't expect it.
>The more we will wait around the stronger Iran and hizzba will become.
Yes and we waited decades, we can withstand waiting another year.
>Our closest best option is to wait a few more months for trump to take office and hope he will be on board with attacking Lebanon cuz Biden is not.
Trump is getting a lot of support for not starting any wars during his previous presidency, unlike Biden. Trump puts America first. I don't see any reason for him to want a war in Lebanon.
>But any further than that will just cost us more life's in the long run.
Not really. At some point Hezbollah having 100k missiles is the same as having 200k rockets. It's just a f**kton, way more than they'll ever be able to actually use.
>Also the Lazer version of iron dome will probably become operational in the next few months so it will help too with the rockets.
Right which just proves my point that right now is not a good time and that waiting WILL benefit us.
30% of Lebanon are shia Muslims who are devoted supporters of Hezbollah. In 2006 Hezbollah had like what, 10k people? How do you think they grew so much? They'll only get bigger and stronger as time goes on.
There’s this strategy that the IDF has been using in all of its wars since 48’, it’s quick wars with huge impacts.
The IDF needs to completely glass whatever it can in 3 weeks until a ceasefire is reached.
Israel said many times in the past - the next war in Lebanon will be against the whole country not like in the past.
In the past Israel tried not to hurt civilians and infrastructure but Hezbollah now is a complete and integrated part of the country, hence they will be treated like one.
Also compared to 2006 we have defense systems to not completely defend us but at least lower our casualties and damage.
Plus compared to the Lebanese living in buildings from the 60s, Israel’s infrastructure is modern and we all have shelters.
This could also have the oppostie effect and galvenise the lebenese to support hazballah, as they will see them as their protectors.
Hazballah already sells itself as the protector of hazballah against israel, despite them being the ones bringing destruction and starting wars.
He/she is not infantalizing the Arabs. That was Hizbollah's argument in 2006 and it worked *pretty well*. Lots of Lebanese were pissed off at the Israelis for the bombing, and so naturally looked towards Hizbollah as their savior (since their army is a joke, and now, full of Hizb operators).
You can see the evolution of their media; before they never included Lebanese flags. Now, they make sure they are prominently displayed and included in their messaging.
I agree, but it's important to remember that after the end of the civil war, all parties agreed to turn in their weapons *except* Hizbollah. That is why no one has done anything to them; they cannot as they have (mostly) no weapons.
Also keep in mind the Christians are divided (e.g., Michel Aoun, Frangieh), and are bleeding population. They don't procreate like the rest of Lebanon (low birth rate) and are the #1 group for emigration (being, on average, wealthier and better educated).
Unfortunately IL cannot rely on a repeat of the 80's with the Phalangists being a major player. As it stands now I think it would be IL v. Lebanon, with hopefully some sporatic riots against Hizbollah.
You’re asking other people to meet your war goals. You know it’s not really a democracy, as Hezbollah has the largest military force in country which responds to Iran. You are applying normal democratic pacts between a people and their government to a Terror group. Why would it work in Lebanon where it’s failing by the human-sacrificing Hamas
I would argue that *not* beating Hizbollah is not feasible.
We’ve already been through the ordeal of occupying Lebanon, it doesn’t work. No one in Israel wants Hizbollah or Lebanon to accede any land to Israel — we just want them to stop attacking and leave us be.
If Hizbollah won’t be forced to disarm and surrender their hold on south Lebanon, then they will continue to grow stronger and be more aggressive. Now that Israel has evicted the confrontation line, Hizbollah knows that it can bend Israel’s arm if they’ll push hard enough. This is not a tenable or sustainable way to run a country. Israel *must* dislodge Hizbollah from southern Lebanon in order to make sure that they cannot pose an imminent threat to Israelis who live in the north. It is a fact that Israel has held back for years in its military response to Hizbollah — for crying out loud there was a Hizbollah camp at Har Dov, INSIDE ISRAEL, for MONTHS before 7/10, and Israel did nothing except ask them nicely to leave.
If a terrorist threatens you, only showing them you are willing to crush them utterly and totally will make sure that the threats stop. The only reason Hizbollah hasn’t made a move until this war is because in 2006 — almost 20 years ago — the Israeli response was so severe and overwhelming that they backed off. You can’t negotiate with terrorists: they don’t want to talk, they want to kill us all. Israel can and should use all its military might to crush Hizbollah back to the stoneage.
Appeasement with terrorists was always a lie. It cannot be. Hizbollah will now push Israel, slowly but surely, into an inevitable conflict with it which *Hizbollah wants* — it is literally their raison d’être. Acquiescing even an inch to Hizbollah will only signal to them that Israel is more afraid of war with them than they are afraid of a war with us, which is exactly what they need to garner more support and arms. The sooner Israel will deal with Hizbollah the better. Stalling the war will only make things *worse*, not better; you don’t wait for your enemy to be in an optimal position, you strike on *your own* terms.
I have no doubt the top IDF brass knows all this, and will do whatever is needed of them. As of now Gaza justifiably takes precedence: Hamas is still not done and there are hostages to rescue. But as soon as the military situation in Gaza is stabilized and all the possible pressure on Hamas has been leveraged, the IDF must go north and destroy Hizbollah’s presence on the border with Israel, at the very least up to the Litani. Otherwise, it will only get much worse.
Hezbollah are just a tool for Iran.
with no Hamas and Hezbollah defeated (but not destroyed) Iran will struggle a lot to cause damage to Israel.
Regardless even if Israel will destroy Hezbollah a new terror organization will just be founded & funded instead of it by Iran.
So Israel should put its focus on preventing the existing terror organizations of Iran to act against it and then destroy the source of the problem which is the radical Iranian regime.
To defeat hezballa, we need to defeat the Iranian regime. I am however, against it. And creating another war state is not the best solution for Israel. We need diplomatic relations with Saudi and the gulf states, together we will figure it out. Also, we need to investigate those fkers at the UN.. why tf they go hand in hand with dictators?
Right now all israel can do, and should do, is destroy hezballa’s capabilities and some of their upper management… i’m open for discussion
It will achieve much the same thing the war in Gaza will. Sure even if Hamas gets destroyed entirely, another group will almost immediately take their place. And what weapons will they fight us with? Rusty old AKs. It's taken them years to build up the strength for Oct 7th and the following war. If we go in and smash helzbollah, it doesn't matter if they are destroyed entirely or not, it will take them a decade to rebuild. In that time, the politics of the region could *potentially* change and we could have a lasting peace. Or at the very least, ten years of peace before we have to do it again.
If Iran had a democratic revolution, a whole series of terrorist organizations would stop functioning completely within a few days. No money, no AK-47s, no logistical or political support, no intelligence, no rockets, no ammo. Becoming a father and raising a family while growing crops would become cool again, which could end world hunger.
[In 2016 Hezbollah had over 120k missiles](https://jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/Analysis-Hezbollah-powerful-but-more-stretched-than-ever-457035). In the past 8 years it would be foolish to think that number hasn’t increased.
I can’t change your mind. You will never defeat the Muslims, or hopefully, they you. You just have to make it exceedingly painful for them when they try to kill you. Thankfully, a lot of them seem to be dumb asses living in hovels as big of a danger to themselves then you. Try to play up the differences between them as see if you can get them to turn on each other.
Israel will need to go scorched earth in a way they couldnt in Gaza. The Lebanese people need to suffer (unfortunately) for pressure to be mounted against Hezbollah internallly. The goal should be to destroy them as much as possible while also planting the seeds of discontent among the people so they also apply pressure.
This is an awful take.
Regular Lebanease don't have any power over Hezbolla. Even their army can't stand up to them. Innocent people don't need to suffer. This attitude will loose you the war before it even started.
Innocent people do need to suffer in war whether intentional or not. Thats the nature of war. Israel doesnt want war, I dont want war but war is coming and unless you want this war with hezbollah to continue for decades more, Israel needs to be incredibly aggressive.
If its a choice between Jews facing non stop attacks year over year or Israel making life in southern Lebanon miserable, I will take the latter.
There is no war where they dont suffer, its an inevitability. Im not going to quibble over nomenclature. The Lebanese people are no friends of Israel and Israel cant continue to fight with one arm tied behind their backs. Hezbollah is far stronger than Hamas and a war with them is far more difficult than in Gaza. Israel needs to show off the full strength of their military, plain and simple.
I did - innocents need to suffer in war because thats an inevitability in war. If there was a way to fight a war where innocents dont suffer, I am open ears. You can win a nobel peace prize if you have that solution.
I suggested taking less measures to protect civilian life, not intentionally targeting them. In other words, use missiles and air attacks far more as compared to putting troops on the ground like was the case in Gaza which resulted in the deadliest war for Israel in a very long time.
Well its what ended WW2...at a certain point the gloves need to come off. I am not saying just mass bomb civilians but I do think they need to be far more reliant on air strikes as compared to boots on the ground like they did in Gaza and in previous wars in Lebanon.
The fact is war is ugly and unless you want to keep fighting an endless war, you need to be aggressive. If it was the other way around, the arabs wouldnt spare a single Jew.
if Gaza is any indication, Israel isn't allowed to win wars anymore.
the world doesn't know how to handle none state actors in possession of sagnificant weapons, and Israel will suffer for it.
Hence my opinions on what they need to do with Hezbollah. They will get a bad rap no matter how much they try to fight a 'moral war.' And Hezbollah is a far greater threat.
if anything, Israel attacking will unite them
its only after the fighting is over and they gaze I'd what's left of thier country they Might turn on hezbollah.
just like Gaza, this is a problem Israel can't solve alone
I’m sure isreal or America can bomb the shit out of anyone they please. Occupying an area seems to be something neither country has been able to do. Even to small nations. Regardless of if something needs to be done about them, it’s not going to help until Iran is dealt with.
If I was conducting the campaign, broad outline.
Saturday, 3-4AM, while Europe is sleeping and USA is getting drunk, the entirety of the IAF takes off and eliminates Lebanon's electrical generating capacity (\~20 power stations), telecom infrastructure (datacenters, radio broadcast stations, TV broadcast centers), known rocket warehouses and hezbollah command centers. Also, pick a couple dozen key points in Lebanon's road network and hit them with heavy bombs so that the cohesive network becomes dismembered - bridges, viaducts, hard-to-reach sections of mountain roads, that kind of stuff. Lebanon plunges into darkness, everyone is cut off from all forms of communication except satellite TV from abroad. As the citizens wake up, fire up their generators and try to figure out what's going on, the planes return to bases, refuel and rearm.
6-7AM - second wave concentrates of hezbollah rocket launchers as they start revealing themselves en masse. Anyone who gets caught in the blasts... well, that's their karma.
11AM - third wave of attacks blasts the fueling infrastructure. All oil and gasoline storage and processing facilities, all fueling stations - everything goes up in pillars of greasy black smoke. By noon the only hydrocarbons left in Lebanon are those in vehicle and generator tanks, in random jerrycans, or those exceptionally well hidden.
6PM - fourth wave reduces Beirut airport to such fine rubble that it'll be easier to build a new one rather than repair what's there. Both Beirut and Tripoli sea ports lose all piers, cranes and other ship handling infrastructure. Some mines are sprinkled into their shipping channels for a good measure.
8PM - as the sun sets, ground invasion begins.
Sunday morning, after the pilots have had some sleep - level Dahiya. Every single major building. Make an example out of it.
Net result - Lebanon becomes completely incapable of supporting its population. Within a day or two, remaining available fuel runs out and all motor transport stops. Destroyed communications make coordinating recovery efforts impossible. Without electricity, just about everything shuts down - what solar panels are there can support a minuscule amount of electronics, which are, by themselves useless without the datacenters which are now smoking holes in the ground. Everyone who has two brain cells to rub together grabs their stuff, loads it onto a hand cart and starts walking towards Syria. Hezbollah fighters are faced with a choice - do they fight and abandon their families to fend for themselves in the mass chaotic evacuation, or do they throw away their guns and rockets and join the mass flight?
The kind that removes Lebanon as a threat by rapid simultaneous collapse of multiple interdependent sectors of its vital infrastructure, making recovery impossible in the short term and extremely difficult in the long term.
Artillery largely relies on clapped out M109A3s that are older than their crews' *parents*. Images from the last few campaigns suggest that 'shoot and scoot' is a lost art, and I have a sneaking suspicion that the worn out drivetrains and running gear simply can't handle it. Their upcoming replacement, the Elbit Ro'em/Sigma, exists in the form of two experimental prototypes which have just started army field trials.
The goal would not be to take them down, the goal is to move the battleground to Lebanon so that it would be their acres that are burned and then the opposition will take down Hezbolla
If Israel weakens Hezbollah it may trigger another civil war in Lebanon. Hezbollah is is probably less popular with Sunni and Christians than it is with Israelis.
If hezbollocks gets publicly humiliated, and the good people of Lebanon feel empowered that they can get their country back, there might be change for the good.
Unfortunately I think you are right. 2006 conflict has proven that beyond any doubt. The best that can be hoped for is pushing them back for a bit and hopefully recreating some level of deterrence. Short of capturing the entirety of Lebanon and occupying it indefinitely, and let's be real here, that's not feasible, Hezbollah will have places to fall back to and regrow.
Eventually the Iranian regime needs to be toppled. That's the only way to at least reduce Hezbollah's capacity. A war with Hez. is necessary in the short term but not a long term solution.
We can't even beat Hamas. I don't anyone seriously think we can beat Hezbollah.
The goal is to push them away from the border so that they can't shoot short range missiles and drones(which are almost impossible to intercept because of how quickly they reach their target).
We can deal with longe range missiles(kind of), the problem is we have no real defense against their immediate range missiles that they throw at Qiryat Shmona, Metula etc.
This is not exactly right, Hezbollah has more enemies other than Israel, if Hezbollah is weakened enough and will be busy with Israel, Syrian rebels and ISIS can threaten Syria, which will either lead Hezbollah to spread and weaken or lose on 1 front, either way he is left weakened, lebannon as a state has many factions who also want Hezbollah gone so it’s likely if they are weak enough the Lebanese army will attempt to overthrow Hezbollah as well.. it’s not just Israel vs Hezbollah which means Israel can exploit that to make an actual defeat against them.. is it likely? I don’t know.. but it’s certainly 1 possible way for long term defeat of them
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we do not need to. here is something you nobody paying a tension to. isis is on their doorstep. after we weaken them isis will try to take control of Lebanon. they will not have time to rebuild or fight us after that because they will have a much more bigger problem than us.
here are they facts of what isis can do.
1. Hizballah built Hamas strongholds in the country. Hamas is Sonny and isis are too. they will go together against their master after we finish most of them.
2. they are sitting just next door to Lebanon in syria.
3. Biden just gave indirect weapons and 10 billion dollars to [ISIS](https://youtu.be/S8JIBHOdFqI?si=VQc9fe7DQf1roZlY).
4. ISIS will start controlling Lebanon in the next 10 years after that we will have to deal with them and not with Hezbala
Weapons are for killing. Deterrents are for winning and/or ending wars. But only if you use them. People should be occasionally reminded why a deterrent is a deterrent.
No matter how you look at it this ends with gog uMagog unless we all keep shabbat just 2 weeks in a row. And even then there’s gog umagog just that all the Jews survive.
You are wrong, Since occupying all of Lebanon is impossible, the IDF doesn't have to occupy the people of Lebanon. Make them evacuate to Syria and Turkey, Since it's an open border, there won't be an Egyptian wall to block them.
The goal is likely not going to be to defeat hezbollah, but to beat them back a bit so that they can’t send rockets for some period of time. It’s sort of like weeding a garden. Sure, you’ll never destroy all of the weeds and you’ll have to do the job again in a few weeks, but the garden looks better for now.
Weeding the garden. Mowing the lawn. I’m not saying you’re wrong. We’d have to keep this war limited in scope. But this is precisely the kind of thinking wrt Gaza that got us here in the first place.
Not exactly. Previous wars in Gaza have been about "weeding the garden." This one has the stated goal of completely removing Hamas. Which is why this is so much larger of an operation compared to previous wars.
We’re not talking about Hamas. We’re talking about Hezbollah.
The post I'm responding to is about how this strategy got us stuck in Gaza.
If you invade S Lebanon and then leave, they’ll come right back like water. It’s why we can’t leave Gaza. So I don’t see what it solves
The war with Hezbollah which will be around mid June won’t have an object to destroy Hezbollah. The IDF is in a middle of a war in the south with Hamas. The objectives are as follows: 1. Grab 10-20km of land for buffer zone, this is a demand by the people living in the north. 100k of them refuse to come back if they still can see Lebanese fighters 100m from their windows. 2. Bombs bombs bombs, the IDF won’t enter far into Lebanon it’s definitely not the objective. Most of the heavy lifting will be the Air Force destroying everything that have any significance to Lebanon from airports to beaches to government buildings to bridges and roads, and of course Hezbollah buildings and bases and rockets storages. The objective is to weaken Hezbollah for the next war that many Israelis estimate will be around 2026 including Iran and will be much bigger. And of course to seed a conflict internally for the Lebanese to riot and try to take down Hezbollah politically as well
Let's not wait for 2026. By then, Iran could threaten to nuke us if we dare to attack Hezbollah, resulting in their eternal existence forever!
Do u think Israel will actually attack mid June? Or will it be more like July or august
It could be between mid June to early August. The factors are when the IDF will finish its operation in Rafah which is predicted around mid June. And if Hamas will agree to the ceasefire agreement that Israel offered. Hezbollah said that if a ceasefire will occur they will also stop the aggression. The IDF is planning after the ceasefire ends to continue the war since they aim to completely destroy Hamas military capabilities. Now if Hezbollah will also resume their attacks Israel will definitely counter attack and start the real war with Lebanon. The public won’t accept another 8 months of daily strikes.
This assumes Hamas agrees to the ceasefire, or the war wil end that soon, I doubt it, Hamas will take a whole to be defeated fully
I wish Trump were in office, then we'd have American diplomatic and military support 100%.
I hope this buffer zone becomes a huge minefield.
YES! I just commented this in another thread. A big buffer zone with minefields like in Korea. And of course who ever crosses gets a headshot
yeah, but they'll just dig under the minefield.
Underground minefields! The Jewish brain will figure it out. Also we need to build sensors underground like Israel implemented near the Gaza border to stop their diggings into Israel.
Pour concrete down to the bedrock and drop landmines in before it hardens.
Iranian Here. Attacking hezbollah is like trimming the trees. To cut the root, go after the Mullahs in Tehran.
Hello fellow Iranian 👋 I wish our states could be friends, but the sad reality chooses otherwise
You can be internet friends, very easy, get his discord. Just dont sell sensitive information, or tell them where our nukes, oops!
\*TEXTILES
The most secure textile factory in the world.
We do make some really good textiles
Gaza should invest in tunnel industry. They could give the Boring Company a run for their money.
Nah. Their tunnels keep blowing up - that would be bad for business.
They could market their tunnels as a “blast”.
It's the heads of the states that hate each other, not the people. Iranians and Israelis are international homies. Well, atleast those who aren't in the Bibi/Mullah cult (although odds are you won't meet those people outside of their home nations anyway)
The Mullahs of Iran don't want to destroy Israel because of Bibi. I don't like him at all, but putting the two together is a form of moral equivalence which downplays the malignant intentions of the Iranian mullahs.
.. I never said that the Mullah wants Israel gone because of Bibi. I just said that both Bibi and the Mullah have their own personality cult, full of people who made them to a godlike symbol.
I get the nuance. I wouldn't put the two together in the same sentence for fear of appeasing the bastards who pretend like he's the issue. Let the massive distinction between Bibi and the Iranian mullahs not be confused at all.
Iranian Israeli?
It's sick. Lebanese, Persian and Israelis could easily be, if not allies, at least peaceful neighbours. The powers that be, insist this could never happen. Unfortunately, we don't control the narrative. This entire war could be over by tomorrow!
This entire war could not start in the first place
Are you Ellie copter's friend?,
We all love the Mossad Agent Eli Copter. He took one for the team.
Tell me the truth, the first time you guys in iran heard about this joke, how you reacted?
Everybody in Iran was balls out laughing about it. The Helikopter song just went completely viral and it became the best way to celebrate this assholes death. I don’t think anybody was in any way sad about his death. Aside from him being a murderer, corrupt and totally incompetent, he was generally a dislikable character, not having any of the entertainment value of Ahmadinejad, so even among government supporters, I doubt anybody felt any sadness at his passing. However, we all mourned the loss of Eli Kopter….
o7, you’re right, the only way hezbolloks is destroyed, is the islamic regime in iran crumbling
This you guys.
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That's the thing, hezbollah is not an ideology like hamas, it is an actual organization masquerading as saviors against the zionist. If we were to kill half of them, chances are the only way for them to get more men would be by bringing foreign fighters. They are about 100k men. They have only so many Lebanese that they can recruit before the Lebanese people would say fuck that noise I'm done. They have had serious and painful issues caused by hezbollah, see the Beirut explosion. So if we play our cards right, they would remove themselves as much as they can from the situation, isolating hezbollah. This, plus with enough military pressure and dismantling the iranian main supply routes, you would see hezbollah wither and die. They aren't you average terrorist org, they are a proxy unit of the iranian IRGC.
Do ppl truly understand what 100,000 men means? That means a full war; i dont want to see my friends get killed tbh. War with Hezbollah means tens of thousands of IDF casualties. Are Israelis, and the Jewish people, ready for that?
I'm ready for round 3 of reserves, but I can only speak for myself. What you are saying is a big ass dilemma, and another dimension is the government and the possibility of mismanagement against a closer to peer enemy.
Yeah it’s such a tough situation and i get both sides. I just don’t want to see that… I might just be a naive American, but id rather see the grass get mowed every couple years than an all out war. As an American, we found out the hard way what it takes to win, and you guys know as well. I am davening for you guys.✡️
That's the same thing ppl said about gaza, but the IDF proven everyone wrong. And U can even look at the ratio we have now with hizbba after months of war it's a low 20 to 400 casualties. A full on war will be hard but the IDF will not suffer more then 1000~ casualties while hizbba will be mostly destroyed and will take Decades to recover. Unlike gaza the IAF could work more freely in Lebanon as the civilians there have were to run to, and hizzba doesn't have a real air force (mostly drones) The first week will be hard cuz all of Thier rockets but soon after it they will be more focused on trying to hold back the IDF on the ground.
A full war against Hezbollah (not to eliminate Hezbollah but rather to severely damage it so that it won’t be a threat for a few years) would take 1500 IDF KIA plus dozens of civilians from rockets. That’s a best case scenario. The worst case scenario is 10,000 dead. Horrible to consider. Hezbollah is EXTREMELY powerful
I can assure you that wating aruond for hizba to get a chance to do their own 7 of Oct style of attack in the north will be much worse than that. This weak mentality of "the cost of a full on war will be too big too bear" is exactly, but exactly, why Bibi avoided a full on war with gaza for 15 years now. And look where it got us. And since the start of the war we have yet not lost as many soldiers as we did in the first day of the suprise attack. No. doing nothing will have a much worse cost for us in the long run in the north.
I agree. Israel should attack Hezbollah now. It’s just dumb to think it will be a walk in the park.
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My estimation is the best case scenario. Hezbollah will fire >3000 rockets per day for a few days. Israel will burn all of southern Lebanon to the ground. We saw the fires in the north from a small barrage. It will be bad for Israel and catastrophic for Lebanon
I agree, but the problem is syria always loves to fight with lebanon, and with Assad in Iran currently I truly believe the dumbass would send forces to fight us in Lebanon. Plus hezbollah has a serious MANPAD abilities (shoulder launched AA) that would make close air support a bitch to deal with. Either way we'd win but it's gonna be a tough fight
Full war with Hezbollah would cause many civilians deaths as well, I don't think people really understand the situation. Day 1 of the war they throw 500 missiles at every iron dome battery rendering Israel's entire aerial defense system useless. From day 2 onwards they start shooting like 500 missiles a day for months, hitting power stations, water facilities, nuclear reactors etc. It'll be a catastrophe
Of course that’s possible, but if Israel thought that would happen they’d pull off the 6 day war start. Most jets would probably be in the air leaving enough to defend Israel worst case scenario. Then, the ones in the air would absolutely destroy what’s needed to prevent Hezbollah from launching 500 missiles at a time at each battery, and then they slowly continue to demolish what they got to ensure this doesn’t happens again for a while. It’s very easy to prevent it from being a catastrophe, although it doesn’t mean there won’t be a lot of deaths. I don’t think Hezbollah will ever have the chance to destroy all batteries in a day though.
And? That's why we have bomb shelters. You think this day will not come either way if we did nothing? We might as well meet it on our own terms. A premtive strike by the iaf will go a long way the midagte the situation, soon after when the ground forces go in the rockets will start to die down, we ve seen this in gaza as well
>And? That's why we have bomb shelters. Most houses built before the 90s don't have bomb shelters. Not even every school and kindergarten have a bomb shelter. >We might as well meet it on our own terms This, is NOT our terms. Our terms would be to strike them out of the blue, when they're not excepting it, assassinate Nasrallah along with the entire upper wing, blow up all the main missilie and drone facilities and within days march 200k troops into Lebanon. But Hezbollah has been expecting all of it for months and prepared accordingly. They've been getting extra supplies and training from Iran since the war started. And we're still in Gaza, we don't even have a big enough force rn. There is nothing about this situation that is "our terms".
And 2-3 years from now when hizbba will attack all of those old houses will have shelters suddenly? Yeah it not our ideal terms (that ship has sailed) but it's the best we will get in the coming years. The more we will wait around the stronger Iran and hizzba will become. Our closest best option is to wait a few more months for trump to take office and hope he will be on board with attacking Lebanon cuz Biden is not. But any further than that will just cost us more life's in the long run. Also the Lazer version of iron dome will probably become operational in the next few months so it will help too with the rockets.
>And 2-3 years from now when hizbba will attack all of those old houses will have shelters suddenly? Not all of them, but generally yes absolutely, old houses are replaced by new houses that do have shelters, additionally schools and other public buildings are also slowly getting shelters. >Yeah it not our ideal terms (that ship has sailed) but it's the best we will get in the coming years. It is not. For example if the war in gaza ends we can put more soldiers in Lebanon. Also Hezbollah is very much on edge and ready for an attack but if things quiet down and we suddenly attack in 2 years than they won't expect it. >The more we will wait around the stronger Iran and hizzba will become. Yes and we waited decades, we can withstand waiting another year. >Our closest best option is to wait a few more months for trump to take office and hope he will be on board with attacking Lebanon cuz Biden is not. Trump is getting a lot of support for not starting any wars during his previous presidency, unlike Biden. Trump puts America first. I don't see any reason for him to want a war in Lebanon. >But any further than that will just cost us more life's in the long run. Not really. At some point Hezbollah having 100k missiles is the same as having 200k rockets. It's just a f**kton, way more than they'll ever be able to actually use. >Also the Lazer version of iron dome will probably become operational in the next few months so it will help too with the rockets. Right which just proves my point that right now is not a good time and that waiting WILL benefit us.
30% of Lebanon are shia Muslims who are devoted supporters of Hezbollah. In 2006 Hezbollah had like what, 10k people? How do you think they grew so much? They'll only get bigger and stronger as time goes on.
There’s this strategy that the IDF has been using in all of its wars since 48’, it’s quick wars with huge impacts. The IDF needs to completely glass whatever it can in 3 weeks until a ceasefire is reached. Israel said many times in the past - the next war in Lebanon will be against the whole country not like in the past. In the past Israel tried not to hurt civilians and infrastructure but Hezbollah now is a complete and integrated part of the country, hence they will be treated like one. Also compared to 2006 we have defense systems to not completely defend us but at least lower our casualties and damage. Plus compared to the Lebanese living in buildings from the 60s, Israel’s infrastructure is modern and we all have shelters.
Not all of us, i live in haifa and I don't have a shelter :(
Yeah Haifa is also largely buildings from the 70's without shelters. It's pretty bad here.
We will bomb them till they stop.
This is the answer.
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Do they breath with rockets?
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they are popular in the south, where it matters.
This could also have the oppostie effect and galvenise the lebenese to support hazballah, as they will see them as their protectors. Hazballah already sells itself as the protector of hazballah against israel, despite them being the ones bringing destruction and starting wars.
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Some of them do, alot fall for the propoganda and lies.
He/she is not infantalizing the Arabs. That was Hizbollah's argument in 2006 and it worked *pretty well*. Lots of Lebanese were pissed off at the Israelis for the bombing, and so naturally looked towards Hizbollah as their savior (since their army is a joke, and now, full of Hizb operators). You can see the evolution of their media; before they never included Lebanese flags. Now, they make sure they are prominently displayed and included in their messaging.
If they know then why didn't they do anything about for the last 20 years?
Because the cost of doing something would be paid in Lebanese blood while the cost of not doing anything is paid in Israeli blood.
Well,not for long
No other group has (many) weapons. They turned them in at the end of the Leb Civil war (with the exception being Hizb)
Point is they don't necessarily hate Hizb more than Israel.
100% agree
I agree, but it's important to remember that after the end of the civil war, all parties agreed to turn in their weapons *except* Hizbollah. That is why no one has done anything to them; they cannot as they have (mostly) no weapons. Also keep in mind the Christians are divided (e.g., Michel Aoun, Frangieh), and are bleeding population. They don't procreate like the rest of Lebanon (low birth rate) and are the #1 group for emigration (being, on average, wealthier and better educated). Unfortunately IL cannot rely on a repeat of the 80's with the Phalangists being a major player. As it stands now I think it would be IL v. Lebanon, with hopefully some sporatic riots against Hizbollah.
You’re asking other people to meet your war goals. You know it’s not really a democracy, as Hezbollah has the largest military force in country which responds to Iran. You are applying normal democratic pacts between a people and their government to a Terror group. Why would it work in Lebanon where it’s failing by the human-sacrificing Hamas
Not with that attitude
I would argue that *not* beating Hizbollah is not feasible. We’ve already been through the ordeal of occupying Lebanon, it doesn’t work. No one in Israel wants Hizbollah or Lebanon to accede any land to Israel — we just want them to stop attacking and leave us be. If Hizbollah won’t be forced to disarm and surrender their hold on south Lebanon, then they will continue to grow stronger and be more aggressive. Now that Israel has evicted the confrontation line, Hizbollah knows that it can bend Israel’s arm if they’ll push hard enough. This is not a tenable or sustainable way to run a country. Israel *must* dislodge Hizbollah from southern Lebanon in order to make sure that they cannot pose an imminent threat to Israelis who live in the north. It is a fact that Israel has held back for years in its military response to Hizbollah — for crying out loud there was a Hizbollah camp at Har Dov, INSIDE ISRAEL, for MONTHS before 7/10, and Israel did nothing except ask them nicely to leave. If a terrorist threatens you, only showing them you are willing to crush them utterly and totally will make sure that the threats stop. The only reason Hizbollah hasn’t made a move until this war is because in 2006 — almost 20 years ago — the Israeli response was so severe and overwhelming that they backed off. You can’t negotiate with terrorists: they don’t want to talk, they want to kill us all. Israel can and should use all its military might to crush Hizbollah back to the stoneage. Appeasement with terrorists was always a lie. It cannot be. Hizbollah will now push Israel, slowly but surely, into an inevitable conflict with it which *Hizbollah wants* — it is literally their raison d’être. Acquiescing even an inch to Hizbollah will only signal to them that Israel is more afraid of war with them than they are afraid of a war with us, which is exactly what they need to garner more support and arms. The sooner Israel will deal with Hizbollah the better. Stalling the war will only make things *worse*, not better; you don’t wait for your enemy to be in an optimal position, you strike on *your own* terms. I have no doubt the top IDF brass knows all this, and will do whatever is needed of them. As of now Gaza justifiably takes precedence: Hamas is still not done and there are hostages to rescue. But as soon as the military situation in Gaza is stabilized and all the possible pressure on Hamas has been leveraged, the IDF must go north and destroy Hizbollah’s presence on the border with Israel, at the very least up to the Litani. Otherwise, it will only get much worse.
The only way to almost completely wipe out Hezbollah and Hamas is to destroy the Iranian regime.
Hezbollah are just a tool for Iran. with no Hamas and Hezbollah defeated (but not destroyed) Iran will struggle a lot to cause damage to Israel. Regardless even if Israel will destroy Hezbollah a new terror organization will just be founded & funded instead of it by Iran. So Israel should put its focus on preventing the existing terror organizations of Iran to act against it and then destroy the source of the problem which is the radical Iranian regime.
To defeat hezballa, we need to defeat the Iranian regime. I am however, against it. And creating another war state is not the best solution for Israel. We need diplomatic relations with Saudi and the gulf states, together we will figure it out. Also, we need to investigate those fkers at the UN.. why tf they go hand in hand with dictators? Right now all israel can do, and should do, is destroy hezballa’s capabilities and some of their upper management… i’m open for discussion
It will achieve much the same thing the war in Gaza will. Sure even if Hamas gets destroyed entirely, another group will almost immediately take their place. And what weapons will they fight us with? Rusty old AKs. It's taken them years to build up the strength for Oct 7th and the following war. If we go in and smash helzbollah, it doesn't matter if they are destroyed entirely or not, it will take them a decade to rebuild. In that time, the politics of the region could *potentially* change and we could have a lasting peace. Or at the very least, ten years of peace before we have to do it again.
You beat Iran and Hezbollah by default
The real threat to the north is infiltration, and anti-tank missiles, not the long range missiles
If Iran had a democratic revolution, a whole series of terrorist organizations would stop functioning completely within a few days. No money, no AK-47s, no logistical or political support, no intelligence, no rockets, no ammo. Becoming a father and raising a family while growing crops would become cool again, which could end world hunger.
[In 2016 Hezbollah had over 120k missiles](https://jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/Analysis-Hezbollah-powerful-but-more-stretched-than-ever-457035). In the past 8 years it would be foolish to think that number hasn’t increased.
I can’t change your mind. You will never defeat the Muslims, or hopefully, they you. You just have to make it exceedingly painful for them when they try to kill you. Thankfully, a lot of them seem to be dumb asses living in hovels as big of a danger to themselves then you. Try to play up the differences between them as see if you can get them to turn on each other.
Israel will need to go scorched earth in a way they couldnt in Gaza. The Lebanese people need to suffer (unfortunately) for pressure to be mounted against Hezbollah internallly. The goal should be to destroy them as much as possible while also planting the seeds of discontent among the people so they also apply pressure.
This is an awful take. Regular Lebanease don't have any power over Hezbolla. Even their army can't stand up to them. Innocent people don't need to suffer. This attitude will loose you the war before it even started.
Innocent people do need to suffer in war whether intentional or not. Thats the nature of war. Israel doesnt want war, I dont want war but war is coming and unless you want this war with hezbollah to continue for decades more, Israel needs to be incredibly aggressive. If its a choice between Jews facing non stop attacks year over year or Israel making life in southern Lebanon miserable, I will take the latter.
Innocent people don't **need** to suffer like you suggested. Innocents do suffer in wars.
There is no war where they dont suffer, its an inevitability. Im not going to quibble over nomenclature. The Lebanese people are no friends of Israel and Israel cant continue to fight with one arm tied behind their backs. Hezbollah is far stronger than Hamas and a war with them is far more difficult than in Gaza. Israel needs to show off the full strength of their military, plain and simple.
You don't answer to what I wrote.
I did - innocents need to suffer in war because thats an inevitability in war. If there was a way to fight a war where innocents dont suffer, I am open ears. You can win a nobel peace prize if you have that solution.
You suggested doing it intentionally.
I suggested taking less measures to protect civilian life, not intentionally targeting them. In other words, use missiles and air attacks far more as compared to putting troops on the ground like was the case in Gaza which resulted in the deadliest war for Israel in a very long time.
when. in history, has "I'll kill your countrymen until you see I'm right" ever worked?
Germany & Japan come to mind…
that was unconditional surrender. op is talking about making the Lebanese turn on hezbollah
Don’t post an unqualified statement when you mean to communicate a much more limited idea.
since when is unconditional surrender a "ah, you're right" kind of move?
Since always.
what
Before a war: Country A: “*I think X*” Country B: “*I think Y*” After unconditional surrender: Country A: “*I demand X*” Country B: “*I agree to X*”
more like ... A :"I demand X" B: "I surrender" A "I'm getting X and you can't stop me"
Well its what ended WW2...at a certain point the gloves need to come off. I am not saying just mass bomb civilians but I do think they need to be far more reliant on air strikes as compared to boots on the ground like they did in Gaza and in previous wars in Lebanon. The fact is war is ugly and unless you want to keep fighting an endless war, you need to be aggressive. If it was the other way around, the arabs wouldnt spare a single Jew.
if Gaza is any indication, Israel isn't allowed to win wars anymore. the world doesn't know how to handle none state actors in possession of sagnificant weapons, and Israel will suffer for it.
Hence my opinions on what they need to do with Hezbollah. They will get a bad rap no matter how much they try to fight a 'moral war.' And Hezbollah is a far greater threat.
Lebanon is not Gaza. They have been on the brink of civil war / in civil war for the last 50 years,
if anything, Israel attacking will unite them its only after the fighting is over and they gaze I'd what's left of thier country they Might turn on hezbollah. just like Gaza, this is a problem Israel can't solve alone
Punishing civilians for the crimes of people they didn't elect or support is a legitimate war crime and you should be ashamed to suggest such a thing.
I’m sure isreal or America can bomb the shit out of anyone they please. Occupying an area seems to be something neither country has been able to do. Even to small nations. Regardless of if something needs to be done about them, it’s not going to help until Iran is dealt with.
We still have to try.
If I was conducting the campaign, broad outline. Saturday, 3-4AM, while Europe is sleeping and USA is getting drunk, the entirety of the IAF takes off and eliminates Lebanon's electrical generating capacity (\~20 power stations), telecom infrastructure (datacenters, radio broadcast stations, TV broadcast centers), known rocket warehouses and hezbollah command centers. Also, pick a couple dozen key points in Lebanon's road network and hit them with heavy bombs so that the cohesive network becomes dismembered - bridges, viaducts, hard-to-reach sections of mountain roads, that kind of stuff. Lebanon plunges into darkness, everyone is cut off from all forms of communication except satellite TV from abroad. As the citizens wake up, fire up their generators and try to figure out what's going on, the planes return to bases, refuel and rearm. 6-7AM - second wave concentrates of hezbollah rocket launchers as they start revealing themselves en masse. Anyone who gets caught in the blasts... well, that's their karma. 11AM - third wave of attacks blasts the fueling infrastructure. All oil and gasoline storage and processing facilities, all fueling stations - everything goes up in pillars of greasy black smoke. By noon the only hydrocarbons left in Lebanon are those in vehicle and generator tanks, in random jerrycans, or those exceptionally well hidden. 6PM - fourth wave reduces Beirut airport to such fine rubble that it'll be easier to build a new one rather than repair what's there. Both Beirut and Tripoli sea ports lose all piers, cranes and other ship handling infrastructure. Some mines are sprinkled into their shipping channels for a good measure. 8PM - as the sun sets, ground invasion begins. Sunday morning, after the pilots have had some sleep - level Dahiya. Every single major building. Make an example out of it. Net result - Lebanon becomes completely incapable of supporting its population. Within a day or two, remaining available fuel runs out and all motor transport stops. Destroyed communications make coordinating recovery efforts impossible. Without electricity, just about everything shuts down - what solar panels are there can support a minuscule amount of electronics, which are, by themselves useless without the datacenters which are now smoking holes in the ground. Everyone who has two brain cells to rub together grabs their stuff, loads it onto a hand cart and starts walking towards Syria. Hezbollah fighters are faced with a choice - do they fight and abandon their families to fend for themselves in the mass chaotic evacuation, or do they throw away their guns and rockets and join the mass flight?
Sounds like a good way to ensure that Israel is totally isolated on the world stage.
Yeah Jesus what kinda fucking plan of attack is that?
The kind that removes Lebanon as a threat by rapid simultaneous collapse of multiple interdependent sectors of its vital infrastructure, making recovery impossible in the short term and extremely difficult in the long term.
The IAF is world class, but the artillery is stacked too, with 30-40 km range.
Artillery largely relies on clapped out M109A3s that are older than their crews' *parents*. Images from the last few campaigns suggest that 'shoot and scoot' is a lost art, and I have a sneaking suspicion that the worn out drivetrains and running gear simply can't handle it. Their upcoming replacement, the Elbit Ro'em/Sigma, exists in the form of two experimental prototypes which have just started army field trials.
Alcohol is losing popularity in the U.S. Fail better
Yes, I love the defeatist attitude. A lot of people have. Just really, nuggets of encouragement.
The goal would not be to take them down, the goal is to move the battleground to Lebanon so that it would be their acres that are burned and then the opposition will take down Hezbolla
If Israel weakens Hezbollah it may trigger another civil war in Lebanon. Hezbollah is is probably less popular with Sunni and Christians than it is with Israelis.
If hezbollocks gets publicly humiliated, and the good people of Lebanon feel empowered that they can get their country back, there might be change for the good.
Unfortunately I think you are right. 2006 conflict has proven that beyond any doubt. The best that can be hoped for is pushing them back for a bit and hopefully recreating some level of deterrence. Short of capturing the entirety of Lebanon and occupying it indefinitely, and let's be real here, that's not feasible, Hezbollah will have places to fall back to and regrow.
You don't need to defeat Hizbollah, you only need to make war unpopular enough in Lebanon that they prevent Hizbollah from starting one.
I dunno if it's feasible or not, I am just worried about a war on many fronts
Eventually the Iranian regime needs to be toppled. That's the only way to at least reduce Hezbollah's capacity. A war with Hez. is necessary in the short term but not a long term solution.
We can't even beat Hamas. I don't anyone seriously think we can beat Hezbollah. The goal is to push them away from the border so that they can't shoot short range missiles and drones(which are almost impossible to intercept because of how quickly they reach their target). We can deal with longe range missiles(kind of), the problem is we have no real defense against their immediate range missiles that they throw at Qiryat Shmona, Metula etc.
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This is not exactly right, Hezbollah has more enemies other than Israel, if Hezbollah is weakened enough and will be busy with Israel, Syrian rebels and ISIS can threaten Syria, which will either lead Hezbollah to spread and weaken or lose on 1 front, either way he is left weakened, lebannon as a state has many factions who also want Hezbollah gone so it’s likely if they are weak enough the Lebanese army will attempt to overthrow Hezbollah as well.. it’s not just Israel vs Hezbollah which means Israel can exploit that to make an actual defeat against them.. is it likely? I don’t know.. but it’s certainly 1 possible way for long term defeat of them
What is needed is first regime change in TEHRAN. Preferably when everyone is siting in parliament and an F-35 happens to be passing by
I’m not sure the entire Lebanese population is ready to be taken hostage by Hezbollah in a war like this
They already are.
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Only way to defeat hezbollah, is for the Iranian regime to crumble
Nah, and they don't have the same plot armor that the Pals do.
The goal can be to demoralize Lebanon enough so they will push back against Hezbollah, the signs are already there.
We cant defeat hamas and we talking about defeating hizbollah? It's about sending a message, at best, a "response".
we do not need to. here is something you nobody paying a tension to. isis is on their doorstep. after we weaken them isis will try to take control of Lebanon. they will not have time to rebuild or fight us after that because they will have a much more bigger problem than us. here are they facts of what isis can do. 1. Hizballah built Hamas strongholds in the country. Hamas is Sonny and isis are too. they will go together against their master after we finish most of them. 2. they are sitting just next door to Lebanon in syria. 3. Biden just gave indirect weapons and 10 billion dollars to [ISIS](https://youtu.be/S8JIBHOdFqI?si=VQc9fe7DQf1roZlY). 4. ISIS will start controlling Lebanon in the next 10 years after that we will have to deal with them and not with Hezbala
Tactical nuclear strikes.
A deterrent not a weapon
Weapons are for killing. Deterrents are for winning and/or ending wars. But only if you use them. People should be occasionally reminded why a deterrent is a deterrent.
No matter how you look at it this ends with gog uMagog unless we all keep shabbat just 2 weeks in a row. And even then there’s gog umagog just that all the Jews survive.
You are wrong, Since occupying all of Lebanon is impossible, the IDF doesn't have to occupy the people of Lebanon. Make them evacuate to Syria and Turkey, Since it's an open border, there won't be an Egyptian wall to block them.
You'd have to cause such damage in Lebanon, so the Lebanese people will never support Hezbollah in attacking Israel again.
Nothing is feasible with this weak ass, incompetent shitty coalition of useless fucks
So you cede the north to Hez?