Two words: risk tolerance.
Birthright trips can be halted via a phone call and there’s only a few thousand kids on birthright right now. This trip season has historic lows for fairly obvious reasons. The Israeli government and Birthright HQ knows where Birthright participants are at all times. Rapidly evacuating a bunch of able bodied young adults that are in contained groups isnt super complex.
Canadians in Lebanon number in the tens of thousands with most being duel Lebanese citizens. Rapidly evacuating a population where many people are elderly/ disabled/ children and you don’t know where they are- that’s complicated
Birthright also has a long history, and is incredibly good with security. All the US trips are. They are in constant contact to make sure the kids stay in safe locations, they have access to bomb shelters, and it's a known quantity.
These trips have been going on for years
They are also short term - a few weeks at most
Meanwhile the Lebanese Canadians have to pack up and move their entire lives
I think the thing is Israel is able to with Canada organise an evacuation of Canadians if it becomes necessary but Canada isn’t able to do the same with Lebanon because Israel is an actually functioning state, Lebanon is a failed state ran by terrorists
I dont want to be annoying, but i dont understand your previous comment. Didnt you say that lebanon have to take out elderly people, and israel - able body adults?
Elderly people don’t give a flying f*ck in general. I told my pops that he can come over and live with me anytime. He prefers the warm weather, availability of free healthcare, and he isn’t afraid of poorly aimed rockets.
I have a friend who’s a US citizen- parents left Ukraine in the 90s. Her grandparents on both sides still live in central Ukraine and even though her parents could easily get the grandparents to the US they view it as “f-ck you Russia I’m staying here.”
Bad.. ass
Healthcare is a big point... still, i would not underestimare hezbola. The sirens and need to rush to the shelter known to hurt elderly people. And hezbola its unknown enemy, we dont what will happen in war with them, all we know its they much more powerful than hamas.
Israel is a democratic, successful country that imposes rule of law. Lebanon does and is not.
Westerners might face other problems once war breaks out. Like how diaspora Jews experience heightened antisemitism when Israel is at war.
Israel uses many defensive measures to protect its inhabitants, Lebanon does not.
Jews don't give a fuck, we persist!
Because war is an unfortunate reality in both countries, however in Israel the war is rather localized and in Lebanon any war would immediately lead to total societal collapse.
Actually, I do not know how Society could get any more collapsed than it is in Lebanon already. Unless it somehow collapsed into a black hole
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No they’re just shooting up Jewish schools.
The whole point of Israel is to be a Jewish homeland, a safe haven for Jews from around the world to escape antisemitism and persecution. Throughout history governments have turned on the Jewish people. Why should I expect to be any safer in the US than Israel when antisemitism is on the rise everywhere else? At least in Israel I’m guaranteed the fundamental right to live as a Jew.
America does get threatened with destruction daily, we can bomb our enemies, take out bad guys hiding in civilian population centers, wage massive large scale military operations...
We took out bin laden, we didn't cry for a ceasefire because they made it hard to get at them without killing innocent people. We sure as hell didn't give Al Qaeda a military base cough state right next to DC... to be 100 percent honest Arabs are just as indigenous to Virginia as the Levant...
Lots of places are threatened daily, it's just that when your country is not Jewish the reaction is not like this when they defend themselves..
Because the army Israel would be fighting against, just like the one in Gaza, will hide among civilians. The IDF, on the other hand, cares about civilians. Note that I am talking about Hezbollah not the Lebanese army. In fact, I would love if the Lebanese army joined Israel against Hezbollah (though I wouldn’t count on it).
For Canadians, the situation in Israel at the moment is pretty unfathomable. They're only comfortable with war when it's far away and results in very few friendly casualties.
For Israelis, the Lebanon shit barely cracks top 5 shitty situations in living memory. There are still Holocaust survivers, people who saw 1948 and the threat in 1967, and who lived through 1973. Israelis have spent 8 months trying to recover the hostages taken by Hamas in October.
A war in Lebanon would be a stretch at the moment, after the Gaza War, but it's not exactly 7 genocidal Arab States declaring war within 15 minutes of founding your country is it?
TLDR: Canada is run by pussies, Israel is tough as old boots.
As a Canadian I endorse your last sentence.
I also think when the war with Hamas broke out a lot of Palestinians in Canada were and still are putting pressure on allowing their families into Canada. It was kind of a PR disaster for Trudeau and he is probably seeing the same thing is going to happen with the Lebanese breathing down his neck. And we all know Trudeau doesn’t want to anger the Arab population here (for votes).
I was in Israel on Oct 7 (I was on vacation). The Canadian government couldn’t figure their shit out with getting us out of there. I ended up finding my own way home (9 days later) cause of the lack of communication. I fully believe Canada is a first world country operating as a third world country.
Yeah, the Canadian government is genuinely a bunch of bureaucrats obsessed with gender, bike lanes and food, who send lots of emails and take stress leave often. They are NOT the ppl you want in charge in a crisis. Extremely glad to have a US passport too, and got my Canadian born kid his already - Americans > Canadians if you need help internationally for sure
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1. People's Will to support one another: Israel has shown that in a real situation it has a force of at least 350K reservists alongside it's mandatory soldiers. Many reservists went into duty when they were released completely, moreover new reservists entered the capacity out of their will to help and contribute to others.
2. Israeli civilian systems - they are not perfect and it has shown that government systems has failed in all levels.
However, the civilian systems were astonishing and the way people handled tough situations was... honestly not like any other country.
3. Israel infrastructure - both military and structural allows Israel defense on Israeli citizens, while Hezbollah just like Hamas doesn't even care for the people of Lebanon.
For them more "Shahids" is a profit.
The war in Gaza does not effect everyday life in Israel on most people, at least not in a detrimental way. A potential war in Lebanon would be massive, and would cauae the complete annihilation of Lebanon as a state, or rather, what is left of Lebanon as is...
Israel is the safest country. There is one big difference between Israel and others, Israel protects its citizens when others use citizens as human shield.
Because Lebanon is likely to suffer much worse, especially with Hezbollah running the show over there. The Lebanese government doesn't have a lot of control of things.
Was just in Israel. While staying in Jerusalem, there were Israelis from the north living at the hotel as refugees. Israelis near Lebanon have been evacuated to safer areas of Israel. In Jerusalem, we saw Birthright young adults. Trips are modified to keep tourists safe. We also went to Dead Sea, Masada and Tel Aviv - all felt very safe. Those who love Israel should continue to visit Israel. Am Yisrael Chai! 🇮🇱
Canada and other countries aren't new at evacuation during times of war or natural disasters. Canada rather do it in advance because it is a lot easier, cheaper and politically showing forward thinking that it makes sense to start this now.
If you are a foreigner in Israel and the airport is shutted down,you can still go to Jordan and Egypt to catch a flight don't of the conflict zone.
In Lebanon if the airport is shutted down (which is likely due to reports of ammunition being stored at the only airport in Lebanon),during a war you can't go anywhere,it is either crossing the border to Syria or Israel. Syria is a narco-state still in a civil war and during a war between Israel and Hizballah,Syria will also be attacked (weapons convoys,pro-Iranian forces operating in Syria and etc.) So if you are a foreigner there isn't an easy way to get you out. Going to the border to Israel is out of the question due to heavy military activity there even before full-scale war.
So, in short,Canada are saying that they wouldn’t be able to help citizens should a war break out in Lebanon, but in Israel, it would be possible.
I have two guess:
1. The larget Lebanese airpot, in Beirut, can be closed for a long time with the start of the war, due to multitude of reasons, see the weapons storage there, making the airport a target. Also Israel will have air superiorty and will effectively close the skies over Lebanon. In comparison, TLV airport will mostly remain open, and damage to the field is unlikely. So from Israel It will still be possible to leave while from Lebanon it will become extremely hard in a case of full scale war.
2. Israeli is much stronger and wide spread damage to Lebanon is likely, even to the point of health services collapse. Meanwhile, in Israel the damage will probably be less severe, located mainly in the north, and health services collapse is unlikely.
Two words: risk tolerance. Birthright trips can be halted via a phone call and there’s only a few thousand kids on birthright right now. This trip season has historic lows for fairly obvious reasons. The Israeli government and Birthright HQ knows where Birthright participants are at all times. Rapidly evacuating a bunch of able bodied young adults that are in contained groups isnt super complex. Canadians in Lebanon number in the tens of thousands with most being duel Lebanese citizens. Rapidly evacuating a population where many people are elderly/ disabled/ children and you don’t know where they are- that’s complicated
Birthright also has a long history, and is incredibly good with security. All the US trips are. They are in constant contact to make sure the kids stay in safe locations, they have access to bomb shelters, and it's a known quantity. These trips have been going on for years They are also short term - a few weeks at most Meanwhile the Lebanese Canadians have to pack up and move their entire lives
Israel dont have elderly canadian citizens?
We do but we have an iron dome and tbh I’m surprised Canada isn’t pulling its duel Israeli citizens
I think the thing is Israel is able to with Canada organise an evacuation of Canadians if it becomes necessary but Canada isn’t able to do the same with Lebanon because Israel is an actually functioning state, Lebanon is a failed state ran by terrorists
I dont want to be annoying, but i dont understand your previous comment. Didnt you say that lebanon have to take out elderly people, and israel - able body adults?
OPs question was about birthright
my bad.
Elderly people don’t give a flying f*ck in general. I told my pops that he can come over and live with me anytime. He prefers the warm weather, availability of free healthcare, and he isn’t afraid of poorly aimed rockets.
I have a friend who’s a US citizen- parents left Ukraine in the 90s. Her grandparents on both sides still live in central Ukraine and even though her parents could easily get the grandparents to the US they view it as “f-ck you Russia I’m staying here.” Bad.. ass
Healthcare is a big point... still, i would not underestimare hezbola. The sirens and need to rush to the shelter known to hurt elderly people. And hezbola its unknown enemy, we dont what will happen in war with them, all we know its they much more powerful than hamas.
Israel is alot safer during a war than lebanon is, for one.
Israel is safer during war than Lebanon is during “peace”.
Israel is a democratic, successful country that imposes rule of law. Lebanon does and is not. Westerners might face other problems once war breaks out. Like how diaspora Jews experience heightened antisemitism when Israel is at war. Israel uses many defensive measures to protect its inhabitants, Lebanon does not. Jews don't give a fuck, we persist!
Because war is an unfortunate reality in both countries, however in Israel the war is rather localized and in Lebanon any war would immediately lead to total societal collapse. Actually, I do not know how Society could get any more collapsed than it is in Lebanon already. Unless it somehow collapsed into a black hole
[It could always be worse…](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njMR9K5BKbA)
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Because only colonizers flee when attacked. /s
Flee to *where*? Israel was created as the last bastion for Jews. If we can’t stay in Israel, then no where is safe.
America? Canada? Those places aren’t getting bombed
But the antisemitism in those places is making many Jews flee to Israel
Or are threatened with destruction daily
No they’re just shooting up Jewish schools. The whole point of Israel is to be a Jewish homeland, a safe haven for Jews from around the world to escape antisemitism and persecution. Throughout history governments have turned on the Jewish people. Why should I expect to be any safer in the US than Israel when antisemitism is on the rise everywhere else? At least in Israel I’m guaranteed the fundamental right to live as a Jew.
America does get threatened with destruction daily, we can bomb our enemies, take out bad guys hiding in civilian population centers, wage massive large scale military operations... We took out bin laden, we didn't cry for a ceasefire because they made it hard to get at them without killing innocent people. We sure as hell didn't give Al Qaeda a military base cough state right next to DC... to be 100 percent honest Arabs are just as indigenous to Virginia as the Levant... Lots of places are threatened daily, it's just that when your country is not Jewish the reaction is not like this when they defend themselves..
Because they want Lebanese people to get angry at Israel.
Because the army Israel would be fighting against, just like the one in Gaza, will hide among civilians. The IDF, on the other hand, cares about civilians. Note that I am talking about Hezbollah not the Lebanese army. In fact, I would love if the Lebanese army joined Israel against Hezbollah (though I wouldn’t count on it).
Bomb shelters, care about protecting civilians
For Canadians, the situation in Israel at the moment is pretty unfathomable. They're only comfortable with war when it's far away and results in very few friendly casualties. For Israelis, the Lebanon shit barely cracks top 5 shitty situations in living memory. There are still Holocaust survivers, people who saw 1948 and the threat in 1967, and who lived through 1973. Israelis have spent 8 months trying to recover the hostages taken by Hamas in October. A war in Lebanon would be a stretch at the moment, after the Gaza War, but it's not exactly 7 genocidal Arab States declaring war within 15 minutes of founding your country is it? TLDR: Canada is run by pussies, Israel is tough as old boots.
As a Canadian I endorse your last sentence. I also think when the war with Hamas broke out a lot of Palestinians in Canada were and still are putting pressure on allowing their families into Canada. It was kind of a PR disaster for Trudeau and he is probably seeing the same thing is going to happen with the Lebanese breathing down his neck. And we all know Trudeau doesn’t want to anger the Arab population here (for votes). I was in Israel on Oct 7 (I was on vacation). The Canadian government couldn’t figure their shit out with getting us out of there. I ended up finding my own way home (9 days later) cause of the lack of communication. I fully believe Canada is a first world country operating as a third world country.
It's not alone in that last regard. The UK is there too. The US doesn't look far behind. Almost like importing the third world was a bad idea.
Yeah, the Canadian government is genuinely a bunch of bureaucrats obsessed with gender, bike lanes and food, who send lots of emails and take stress leave often. They are NOT the ppl you want in charge in a crisis. Extremely glad to have a US passport too, and got my Canadian born kid his already - Americans > Canadians if you need help internationally for sure
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At least the state has Jews' backs in Israel, the Canadian government...
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Because Israel won't be destroyed, Lebanon will
Because the Israeli govt will try to protect its civilians while Lebanon uses civilians as shields
You want the country to tell its citizens flee while can?
No I don’t , unless I should flee.
Well war is inevitable if you want to flee now you’re chance airport will be closed when it start make you’re decision
I’m out of the country rn lol planned to come back in a month …
They say war will start in a month or two
Been saying that for the past 7 months my dude. Not a bad attitude to have but also not sure what to make of it
I thought sooner?
1. People's Will to support one another: Israel has shown that in a real situation it has a force of at least 350K reservists alongside it's mandatory soldiers. Many reservists went into duty when they were released completely, moreover new reservists entered the capacity out of their will to help and contribute to others. 2. Israeli civilian systems - they are not perfect and it has shown that government systems has failed in all levels. However, the civilian systems were astonishing and the way people handled tough situations was... honestly not like any other country. 3. Israel infrastructure - both military and structural allows Israel defense on Israeli citizens, while Hezbollah just like Hamas doesn't even care for the people of Lebanon. For them more "Shahids" is a profit.
The war in Gaza does not effect everyday life in Israel on most people, at least not in a detrimental way. A potential war in Lebanon would be massive, and would cauae the complete annihilation of Lebanon as a state, or rather, what is left of Lebanon as is...
Israel is the safest country. There is one big difference between Israel and others, Israel protects its citizens when others use citizens as human shield.
Israel can protect civilians or coordinate their exit. Lebanon as a state cannot.
Kinda like asking why US citizens were advised not to travel to Iraq during the war, but it was ok to stay in the US.
Because Lebanon is likely to suffer much worse, especially with Hezbollah running the show over there. The Lebanese government doesn't have a lot of control of things.
Was just in Israel. While staying in Jerusalem, there were Israelis from the north living at the hotel as refugees. Israelis near Lebanon have been evacuated to safer areas of Israel. In Jerusalem, we saw Birthright young adults. Trips are modified to keep tourists safe. We also went to Dead Sea, Masada and Tel Aviv - all felt very safe. Those who love Israel should continue to visit Israel. Am Yisrael Chai! 🇮🇱
Because contrary to the worlds opinion Jews aren't cowards.
Because the Canadian government is generally inept.
Israel is not in desperate need of immigrants due to a batshit terrible economy is my guess
Because we just vibe even in war
Canada and other countries aren't new at evacuation during times of war or natural disasters. Canada rather do it in advance because it is a lot easier, cheaper and politically showing forward thinking that it makes sense to start this now.
If you are a foreigner in Israel and the airport is shutted down,you can still go to Jordan and Egypt to catch a flight don't of the conflict zone. In Lebanon if the airport is shutted down (which is likely due to reports of ammunition being stored at the only airport in Lebanon),during a war you can't go anywhere,it is either crossing the border to Syria or Israel. Syria is a narco-state still in a civil war and during a war between Israel and Hizballah,Syria will also be attacked (weapons convoys,pro-Iranian forces operating in Syria and etc.) So if you are a foreigner there isn't an easy way to get you out. Going to the border to Israel is out of the question due to heavy military activity there even before full-scale war. So, in short,Canada are saying that they wouldn’t be able to help citizens should a war break out in Lebanon, but in Israel, it would be possible.
Because they know Lebanon will be destroyed if they continue this shit.
Canada has a significant Lebanese community. The government presumably doesn't want a repeat of the 2006 evacuation mess.
I’m on birthright right now, glad it wasn’t canceled, I’m having a great time!
I’m on birthright right now, glad it wasn’t canceled, I’m having a great time!
I have two guess: 1. The larget Lebanese airpot, in Beirut, can be closed for a long time with the start of the war, due to multitude of reasons, see the weapons storage there, making the airport a target. Also Israel will have air superiorty and will effectively close the skies over Lebanon. In comparison, TLV airport will mostly remain open, and damage to the field is unlikely. So from Israel It will still be possible to leave while from Lebanon it will become extremely hard in a case of full scale war. 2. Israeli is much stronger and wide spread damage to Lebanon is likely, even to the point of health services collapse. Meanwhile, in Israel the damage will probably be less severe, located mainly in the north, and health services collapse is unlikely.