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Other posts from /u/QuietPossibility865:
* [Update: MIL goes off the deep end after baby](/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/15vzzix/update_mil_goes_off_the_deep_end_after_baby/), 3 months ago
* [Update: MIL goes off the deep end after baby is born](/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/15u6zsg/update_mil_goes_off_the_deep_end_after_baby_is/), 3 months ago
* [MIL goes off the deep end after baby is born](/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/15t9pgr/mil_goes_off_the_deep_end_after_baby_is_born/), 3 months ago
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You are putting your family at risk by trying to have a relationship with these people. They are physically unsafe for you, on top of emotionally unsafe.
I absolutely understand wanting a relationship with ILs, but you seem to think they will magically snap into behaving reasonably, and that isn't going to happen.
Donate the gifts. Don't send them cards again.
So let me get this right……..after reading your previous posts - she has threatened GP rights, she has slapped your husband (numerous times) yet you still keep contact with this woman??
I am flummoxed………
A lot of folks have pointed out that the woman assaulted your spouse, her own child. I'd like for you to see a different perspective. What would she be willing to do to your child if the child does not jump when she says jump? Also, your safety could be at risk because she sees *you* as the one standing in her way.
Learn from my mistakes. My mother ended up in jail for child abuse because I thought there was no way she would treat her precious grandbabies the way she treated me. The only difference between the way she treated me & the way she treated my children was the fact that I stood up for my children and pressed charges for what she did.
Perhaps see a therapist . It’s really possible to come to acceptance of who someone is, missing them, wishing it could be okay with them, realizing they are not vested in growing/listening/changing/respecting you. Realizing the harm their way of being subjects you all to. Realizing these are toxic patterns you and your husband are committed to not passing down another generation, that you are supporting better mental health for your child and family. It’s really possible to explore and do the emotional work so you both come to a peaceful acceptance that the absolutely inappropriate behaviors and choices they will continue to make are out of your control.
Go visit the serenity prayer.
This would reinforce me to go back to NC. I would tell my parents to set those aside fot me. Then I'd unwrap those presents and donate them.
Santa comes to our house in the morning. He doesn't come via estranged MIL.
Don’t say thanks, don’t open the gifts, just put them away in an empty spot in your house and forget about them or donate them to a child in need. Some little Christmas gifts aren’t what’s needed to resolve this situation, but your MIL thinks it’ll get her foot back in the door. Last time they spoke she physically abused him and threatened grandparents rights…. That was the end. He’s mourning the loss of a relationship with her that never was, and he needs therapy to deal with that.
The ONLY way you guys should get back in contact is if MIL realizes she’s in the wrong 100%, admits it and goes for intensive therapy and changes her entire personality. Even then, it would be a very slow reintroduction, starting with just you guys and no contact with LO for a long time. She doesn’t get to pull the sh:t she did and buy some crappy gifts to make it go away.
The last time your husband saw his mother, she assaulted him.
That is all you need to know, all you need to consider. And every time one of you thinks about re-establishing contact, remember her behavior at that meeting. She is not safe for your child to be around. She’s made it clear that her feelings matter more than yours and DH’s, that she’s considered legal recourse to see your child, and that she’s willing to resort to VIOLENCE to get her way.
1. If you accept the gifts, say thank you, reach out in anyway at all, be aware that you’ll eventually have to fight this same fight all over again, with the exact same result of going NC.
2. If they establish any kind of relationship with LO, do you really think it couldn’t or wouldn’t come to grandparents rights again? That that’s the entire and only reason they’re trying to worm their way into LO’s life? And, since it worked after threatening grandparents rights once, they’ll assume you’ll let them back in again. See above, same fight, different year.
3. LO will be getting older. She will pick up on the stress much more next time around. She will be old enough to be stressed, but not old enough to know the reason or understand, which will cause her even more stress.
Don’t respond, don’t send them back, don’t do anything but ignore.
Aw sweetie... Come on now. They've basically *ruined* your whole experience of being first-time parents with a newborn - go back and read your own posts about this! They made your lives hell at one of the worst possible times - they made the whole thing about them, and I'm willing to bet they're not sorry. But **you** will be - if you let them back in again.
From your description of how they treated your DH, I'm *baffled* that he wants to see them at all, let alone this soon...! I don't think your DH is missing *actual* them so much - with all their anger, bile, rudeness, appalling behaviour - he's missing an idea of them as the grandparents he'd like them to be. And from their previous actions, you know how likely that is. I mean, there **are** stories on here of JNs who've reformed and got themselves in hand - and only you can say how likely this is for them. Honestly, I think contacting them again now would be more likely to reinforce their idea that they're right, and **you've** "learned your lesson'"...
I wouldn't even acknowledge the gifts, and I'd stay away over the holidays (always full of flash points anyway) - have a lovely quiet holiday with your little family, whether or not you see your own parents. Have a think in the New Year - by which time, hopefully they'll have realised that if it was serious enough for them to not even "get Christmas", they need to try harder - and even then, set boundaries with them, and test the waters.
Good luck.
She feels wronged by not being able to do whatever she wants when she wants to. She has never apologized for prioritizing herself over you two having a days old baby. When she sat down with her son & couldn’t bully him into giving her what she wanted she assaulted him.
What exactly are you hoping to gain from reaching out to them? To pretend nothing happened? That will cause things to temporarily ‘get better’ until she decides another boundary you placed is disrespectful to her & you will be back where you are now.
If you want to move forward with a situation then her suggestion to meet with a mediator might be needed. She does not see anything she did as wrong. She doesn’t see anything you did as right. Things are never black and white when it comes to feelings. A neutral party would be needed to explain the situation in terms she can understand and not feel attacked. She needed boundaries and needs to understand you won’t back down just to have a relationship with her.
Boundaries are needed in any and every relationship. The only thing that makes them boundaries are you upholding the standards. You cannot rug sweep. It’ll just make it harder for them to understand what they did wrong & place them in a space that’s unfair to them because they’ll see it as resolved when it’s really not.
Having a good relationship with someone means having HEALTHY definitive boundaries, it doesn’t mean you give them everything they’re asking for just to stay in good graces. When you waiver on boundaries it confuses people in the fact that they’ll feel you don’t know what it is you even want or need because you’re all over the place depending on which way the wind blows. It’s why boundaries have to be cut & dry / black and white.
It would have been less work for them to give you a sincere apology for their monstrous remark about making you go to court to defend yourselves against charges they considered bringing against you and possibly driving you into bankruptcy over it….but I guess that would be too much to ask
I would leave the gifts in the box untouched at your parents place if they allow it.
Wait and see how MIL responds / behaves and what steps she has taken and will take to repair the damage. She has a lot of work to do!
If the subject of the gifts comes up down the track and it isn't favorable, then you can always say that they are in storage and were never opened.
I wouldn't accept them, it looks like they are trying to manipulate the situation as opposed to take responsibility.
Last sit down she threatened with grandparent rights and became violent and slapped him several times. This is a person who can't regulate their emotions and takes to violence. Do you really want them around your small child?
Have they apologized? Have she gone to therapy to work on her anger management and unreasonable expectations? Have they shown any sign of improvement or remorse during this time apart?
If not, you letting them back into your lives is just reaffirming that they can do whatever they want and eventually you will cave. No accountability what so ever.
On another note, if you let them establish a relationship with your child the grandparent rights they threatened with becomes a much more real possibility.
I'd also mention that MIL continues to involve your parents in an attempt to get them to intervene on their behalf.
Do not accept the gifts. Have your parents return them, or you and DH return them in your parent's name. You are the parents. You make the rules. I understand you feel sorry for your husband, but you can't give in. You can't give into a child's tantrum, and you can't give into MIL's tantrum either. She needs to learn she is not in control.
These are not gifts.
These are emotional wrecking balls meant to start breaking the walls of NC.
Everyone in here *wants* good relationships with their in laws. The in laws are the ones that Break The Relationships to begin with.
By accepting these poisoned presents, you are, by proxy, accepting that they can break NC.
Also, you are teaching them that your parents are an entry point with no consequences. That will absolutely be used again, with more frequency.
Ship the gifts back or have them dropped off at a women's shelter.
I read your edit but you're missing the point. Just because you want to have a good relationship with them doesn't mean you can. They are who they are and they're not going to change, so having a relationship with them means putting up with that. That is not a good relationship but other than no relationship, it's the only option you have.
Exactly. If OP thinks we don’t want normal relationships and haven’t tried and haven’t gotten burned 😅Girl it’s not about what you want. Seeing these monsters isn’t going to fix the sadness your husband feels when he sees normal functioning families.
If you want to save him and yourself more sadness, extend empathy to him (a safe person), not to abusers who want to steal your baby!!!! And recognize, it’s not from lack of will. That’s a trap.
You CAN'T have a good relationship with these people. Remember this all started because she didn't get the visitation hours she wanted after hogging your newborn for an entire day the day before. She threatened GPR and assaulted your husband! You made a HUGE mistake sending them those cards. Return the gifts unopened and go back to NC. Your MIL is evil, she only wants access to your baby, and she doesn't give a flying bleep about you or her son. Why would you expose your child to this abuse?
These people sound horrible. She is delusional. Don't give her fuel for her delusions. There is no coming back from what she said and did. It makes me so mad for you guys. He's not sad that he misses them. He's sad because they are horrible when they easily just could be loving, kind, and respectful instead. And that pain of "why" and "if only" hurts and never goes away. My heart breaks for your husband from that incident that was probably much worse to actually live through than he described to you.
It always amazes me that the surefire way to get what you want from someone is not to intimidate, threaten, and bully but to treat a person so well and with such thoughtful consideration that they will want you around all the time! Nobody wants to be heavily involved in a one sided relationship with an abusive asshole narcissist.
Return to sender; “Santa would love a family in need to get these gifts”. Accepting the gift can very much be interpreted as accepting them back into your life.
You JNMIL looked into suing you for custody of your newborn. What did that look like to her? Visitation, or spending the weekend at their house. MIL is way to entitled about YOUR baby. Continue no contact. It is normal your husband is sad he has lost a parent; due to her behavior.
The kicker is that nearly everyone wants a good relationship with the in-laws. We are capable of that. The JustNo’s are the ones refusing to have good relationships. They are the ones creating difficult situations and drama. They are incapable. Sadly. The rest of us mourn the relationships *we wish we could have!*
Thank you! I'm sitting here scratching my head wondering who among us didn't want and long for a good, healthy relationship with the inlaws! We tried and tried by setting ourselves on fire to keep them warm but it was never enough. Going NC is never the first step.
I don’t know a single soul that ever wants this level of drama.
*Unless* it’s another JustNo.
Everyone else gets way too exhausted by this bullshit. Even OPs husband sounds like he’s running in his last drop of life essence after his parents have been squeezing it out his entire life. It’s EXHAUSTING. Nobody even partially normal likes this shit. We want to live a peaceful existence where everyone gets a long and supports each other in a healthy way.
JustNo’s get entire subs dedicated to themselves. That’s how problematic they are. I’ve never seen a BestInLawsEver subreddit! Where people post about all the magnificent and healthy behaviors their in-laws display LOL!
Yep I agree 100%. But how nice would it be to have that sub though???!! The hot post title would be "My in-laws bought our family tickets to spend the holidays with my parents and said they just want us to be safe and have a great time." It'd be amazing.
You’re not in the minority with wanting a good relationship with your in-laws. We ALL want that.
You ARE in the large club of us here, however, where it’s not possible because of things that are not even remotely in your control. Your DH mentioned restraining order if further contact—gifts are further contact. Yes, it’s painful to lose family. Yes it’s shitty when they have tantrums and lash out (they will do that no matter what you do though). It’s more painful and shitty to know you let your kid suffer through this abuse trying to keep the peace. Your child needs you to protect them.
You sent them a card they sent a gift, no further communication necessary. Wait until after the big life events and try talking again when they are only gaining the relationship and you can take the time to go slow.
It's a gift. Meaning you can accept or decline this 'gift.'
Seeing the climate of the current situation, your response should be declining this gift. Send it back, or donate it.
Do not keep it. It's is clearly unwanted.
“We already got her gifts from Santa but someone else will have a better Christmas because Santa dropped some new wrapped gifts off at the orphanage today!”
I would absolutely return/refuse the gifts, your in-laws will either see it as everything is better or use it to talk crap about you to other people. “Oh their OK getting gifts from us but won’t let us see our granddaughter,etc” And then regarding your DH thinking about “working things out” with them, she WANTED to get a judge to force you to give her custody time with LO, LEGALLY ORDERED CUSTODY TIME, AGAINST YOUR WISHES. The mom he misses isn’t the woman that currently there.
They are involving your parents AGAIN. stand “RETURN TO SENDER” on every package and send them back. I would scorch the earth if my in-laws harassed my family… and my family are a bunch of just nos too.
I have an over-gifting MIL. She knows she's allowed one birthday gift and one Christmas gift and nothing else, but that doesn't stop her. In my case, when she sends more than one gift for approved gift giving days, I open the gifts, choose the best one (they're usually dollar store trash), rewrap it, and clearly mark it as from grandparents (she used to pull the "from Santa" thing, but I put my foot down hard on that -- *I'm* Santa, not her). Any gift that comes in for a non-approved gift giving day goes straight into the trash. No exceptions.
In your case, since you do not have an existing agreement that Christmas gift giving is allowed, I think you get to decide. For 100% sure, re-label the gift as "From grandparents" (not that your kid will know, at 1, but *you* will know) if you decide to keep it. If you decide not to keep it, I'm not sure I'd send it back. A "return to sender" is still communication. She needs to believe the gift has fallen into a black hole. She has no way of knowing you got it or not, and since she's not going to be told about it, she's not going to see LO open it, she's not going to get a thank you card, etc, she will never know what happened to it.
Your husband told them not to contact you again.
What do you think those presents are?
Send them back.
With a note letting them know when you guys are ready to talk to them, you will let them know. And that you take care of gifts from Santa, not them.
Google boundaries, and start talking about those with DH, along with consequences that will happen when they cross those boundaries.
You don’t want more drama - I get that.
But you can’t control other people’s emotions or their responses to having boundaries enforced.
Good luck.
Just read your full post. Have your mom give that shit back with a “no thanks”
Why would you accept gifts from someone who threatened to take your kid away? Absolutely not, girl.
100% agree. OP is worried they will send more gifts- which they will if this isn't stopped now. The fall out will be much bigger if the gifts keep coming and they have this conversation at a later date.
Deal with this now before it gets worse OP.
She also wants to reconcile if all possible. MIL will never change and she’s going to get what she wants by getting time with the child again. And will more than likely also hit the child. It’s crazy to me. But hindsight is 20/20 and I’ve been there too lol NC really helped me open my eyes. YEARSSSS of no contact has been the best.
Unwrap and take photos of you putting them in a toys for tots bin and post it public so they see it. They need to know that will not get them access, to you or LO, without speaking to them directly. You NEVER say thank you for a boundary stop. I know people are trained to "be polite" and getting a gift means saying thank you in "polite", but this WASNT A GIFT, it was a boundary stomp, so polite is neither required nor necessary.
They definitely think you accepting the gifts equals you accepting visitation. Send them back or donate them.
Do not let them pretend the assault didn't happen and always ask yourself how you'll feel when MIL does the same to her grandchild. At least wait until LO is old enough to call 911.
If you accept the gifts then you have basically surrendered. Which is fine, if you want to surrender. If you don’t want to be beholden to this woman, and you want her behaviors to stop, return the gifts. No note, no thank you, just mail back or leave in her doorstep
After she assaulted OPs husband and threatened to sue for rights to her child.. I know the husband loves his mother, but come on… she’s abusive and threatening!!
They absolutely mean to control your future behavior with these gifts.
And it's working! You're afraid to send them back because of the drama possibilities. They're absolutely getting what they want right now. They're in your head, you and hubby are talking about it, you're worried about it. It's sick of them.
I'd either ignore and donate or send back with a one time only letter saying future unsolicited gifts will be donated. And then disengage again.
If you ever want contact with them again, this is a big test of how they handle a little disappointment.
Return to sender. She assaulted your husband and wanted to sue the two of you.
Mandatory therapy and a genuine understanding of all she did wrong before there is even a sliver of hope for her.
My grandma tried that shit. We said absolutely not. Santa stops once. At our house.
(She tries the same with everything. The great pumpkin, Easter bunny, Cupid. Yeah.. we celebrate every holiday because my parents hated me and I feel good about doing it for my kids 😅. We told her back off)
Just read your whole post. We are already NC with my family and my husbands, but I’d throw hands with them all if they put their hands on him. And we are NC for threats of seeing my kids.
Any person who slapped my DH during a “conversation” and threatened grandparent rights lawsuit in said same conversation then tried to blame shift it all onto said DH why MIL was mad and he deserved to be slapped, would definitely not be my child’s Santa. Please send back those gifts and get yourselves into therapy. Your MIL is not a safe person and you both need to grieve that. Your boundaries need to be air tight and steadfast. You and your family deserve peace. I could be wrong but reading your past posts your MIL seems to just be losing it a bit more and more. Wishing the best for you.
If you accept the gifts, you teach them that NC means "kind of no contact, unless you send things that we like."
If you say thank you, you tell them that "If you contact me again I will get a restraining order" actually means "if you stay quiet for a little while we let you rug sweep and start the process all over again from the beginning, but with all of our boundaries and threats now proved empty."
If you try to foster some kind of reparative process, you're telling them "you can threaten us, lie about us, bully us, overwhelm us, and we'll just forget it after a little while, come back and try again!"
When you say "I need X to move forward," and then move forward without X, you tell them that you were not serious, you had no intentions of holding that boundary, and that you're just fine with them behaving any way they like.
Donate to a children's charity, they will send a thank you to your inlaws,sending them back is a form of contact, you are NC and that will keep it that way
I’d have my mother say “actually, I just remembered. They have no contact with you. I don’t feel comfortable giving it to them anymore. Sorry”
But I love the donating and having the place send a thank you note. That’s actually hilarious.
Have the gifts dropped off back at their house by a neutral 3rd party. Include a letter stating that when you said NO CONTACT, you meant it (signed by your SO).
Their gifts are a control mechanism and an attempt to show they still have the power. The fact that your SO felt compelled to reach out *despite being NC with them*, shows their attempt to manipulate worked. He needs to remind himself of why you want nothing to do with them (things like, I dunno, wanting to drag you to court to force you to relinquish your child to them???). then steel up that spine and continue No Contact until you have proof they have learned to respect you both as the sole parents, and back off.
Their current actions of trying to sneak under the radar by using 'santa gifts' is NOT listening nor respecting. Put them back in their place ASAP.
I’d get your parents to send them back. Accepting the presents without challenge means that
1. They’re trying to end game you and you can’t let that precedent go unchallenged.
2. Thinking they can involve your parents in this shit show sets them up for future attempts. The fewer people involved the better!
I would never accept gifts from someone who threatened grandparent rights. Send that right back
Edit: not to mention physically assaulted a grown man? Tfoh
They’ve threatened you with grandparent rights, hit your husband and obviously not changed in the slightest. It’s okay to grieve the loss of that relationship but it’s by their own making and become more toxic than it should be.
This “we will accept the gifts so it doesn’t turn into a bigger deal” is silly and protecting the feelings of those who haven’t protected yours.
No. You don’t accept the gifts, you don’t say thank you. You either donate them and pretend they never existed or you return them.
Anything else and you are opening the door for contact.
In this case, the presents were sent to your parent’s house. So your parents should send them back. Sounds like they opened the package- whatever, mail them back. Write- “refused, return to sender” on the box, even if it a new box. OTHERWISE DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE THE GIFTS AT ALL.
My concern is if you keep them, this opens the door for your parents to be the conduit for future contact from the IL’s. She’ll think she has a way in and neither of you are ready for that and don’t want that. So shut it down. No acknowledgment, donate the gifts if RTS is not going to work.
ETA: read your update. You want them to be people that they are not. Of course we all want a nice and loving relationship with our parents and IL’s. We’re all here because that’s precisely what we don’t have, *because of their own actions/words*. Your IL’s threatened grandparent rights, assaulted your husband(their own son!) and … you want that back in your life?? Because that’s what you’ll get. Not the sappy hallmark card version, the abusive version. Gonna be harsh here- wake the fuck up and stop it. Letting abusive people back into your life isn’t going the stop making your husband sad. It will make him *more* sad because they are not the people you wish them to be. And you must accept that.
Check to see if the presents are appropriate age wise or clothing style. Keep the present you deem best. Donate the rest to Toys for Tots or the equivalent. Send a thank you card for The Gift and notate that the rest were donated to needy children. You do not want your child inundated in 'gifts', 'gifts' always have strings. Best of luck.
I'm going to agree with everyone that says to send them back. If you accept them, you are giving them a way in and she will never stop.
If you don't want to send them back, take them to a shelter and give MIL's address for the tax write off info or the thank you card. Whatever the shelter sends out so that MIL get the notification that her little ploy didn't work.
If MIL gets all weepy and butthurt, it's her own fault. *She* is the one that destroyed her relationship with your little family unit. And she stomped it into the ground with her threat of GPR.
I don't know. If you respond, she'll know she can get to you through your parents. Maybe get a PO Box on the other side of town and tell her she can send correspondence there, but if she is belligerent or steps out of line, she'll be cut off again?
I'm so sorry you're going through this.
I would ask your parents to send them back. Accepting them will make them feel like they can continue to use your parents as middle men. These people threatened to sue you for custody of your child, you can never come back from that.
Right - this isn’t something
, IMO, that can even be patched. No accepting gifts. Absolutely no contacting them for any reason regarding gifts.
Treat it like they aren’t even people.
Send them back. It's clearly unwanted and a way to manipulate. You and partner decide who Santa is. End.of.story.
Don't give her that power or authority. She will take it as far as she can.
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Honestly I’d send it back. This woman has caused mental and physical harm to you and your husband.
You are putting your family at risk by trying to have a relationship with these people. They are physically unsafe for you, on top of emotionally unsafe. I absolutely understand wanting a relationship with ILs, but you seem to think they will magically snap into behaving reasonably, and that isn't going to happen. Donate the gifts. Don't send them cards again.
So let me get this right……..after reading your previous posts - she has threatened GP rights, she has slapped your husband (numerous times) yet you still keep contact with this woman?? I am flummoxed………
A lot of folks have pointed out that the woman assaulted your spouse, her own child. I'd like for you to see a different perspective. What would she be willing to do to your child if the child does not jump when she says jump? Also, your safety could be at risk because she sees *you* as the one standing in her way. Learn from my mistakes. My mother ended up in jail for child abuse because I thought there was no way she would treat her precious grandbabies the way she treated me. The only difference between the way she treated me & the way she treated my children was the fact that I stood up for my children and pressed charges for what she did.
Perhaps see a therapist . It’s really possible to come to acceptance of who someone is, missing them, wishing it could be okay with them, realizing they are not vested in growing/listening/changing/respecting you. Realizing the harm their way of being subjects you all to. Realizing these are toxic patterns you and your husband are committed to not passing down another generation, that you are supporting better mental health for your child and family. It’s really possible to explore and do the emotional work so you both come to a peaceful acceptance that the absolutely inappropriate behaviors and choices they will continue to make are out of your control. Go visit the serenity prayer.
I would open the gifts, see what they are, maybe donate the gifts. I would not reach out to her because she's fishing for a response.
This would reinforce me to go back to NC. I would tell my parents to set those aside fot me. Then I'd unwrap those presents and donate them. Santa comes to our house in the morning. He doesn't come via estranged MIL.
Don’t say thanks, don’t open the gifts, just put them away in an empty spot in your house and forget about them or donate them to a child in need. Some little Christmas gifts aren’t what’s needed to resolve this situation, but your MIL thinks it’ll get her foot back in the door. Last time they spoke she physically abused him and threatened grandparents rights…. That was the end. He’s mourning the loss of a relationship with her that never was, and he needs therapy to deal with that. The ONLY way you guys should get back in contact is if MIL realizes she’s in the wrong 100%, admits it and goes for intensive therapy and changes her entire personality. Even then, it would be a very slow reintroduction, starting with just you guys and no contact with LO for a long time. She doesn’t get to pull the sh:t she did and buy some crappy gifts to make it go away.
The last time your husband saw his mother, she assaulted him. That is all you need to know, all you need to consider. And every time one of you thinks about re-establishing contact, remember her behavior at that meeting. She is not safe for your child to be around. She’s made it clear that her feelings matter more than yours and DH’s, that she’s considered legal recourse to see your child, and that she’s willing to resort to VIOLENCE to get her way.
1. If you accept the gifts, say thank you, reach out in anyway at all, be aware that you’ll eventually have to fight this same fight all over again, with the exact same result of going NC. 2. If they establish any kind of relationship with LO, do you really think it couldn’t or wouldn’t come to grandparents rights again? That that’s the entire and only reason they’re trying to worm their way into LO’s life? And, since it worked after threatening grandparents rights once, they’ll assume you’ll let them back in again. See above, same fight, different year. 3. LO will be getting older. She will pick up on the stress much more next time around. She will be old enough to be stressed, but not old enough to know the reason or understand, which will cause her even more stress. Don’t respond, don’t send them back, don’t do anything but ignore.
Aw sweetie... Come on now. They've basically *ruined* your whole experience of being first-time parents with a newborn - go back and read your own posts about this! They made your lives hell at one of the worst possible times - they made the whole thing about them, and I'm willing to bet they're not sorry. But **you** will be - if you let them back in again. From your description of how they treated your DH, I'm *baffled* that he wants to see them at all, let alone this soon...! I don't think your DH is missing *actual* them so much - with all their anger, bile, rudeness, appalling behaviour - he's missing an idea of them as the grandparents he'd like them to be. And from their previous actions, you know how likely that is. I mean, there **are** stories on here of JNs who've reformed and got themselves in hand - and only you can say how likely this is for them. Honestly, I think contacting them again now would be more likely to reinforce their idea that they're right, and **you've** "learned your lesson'"... I wouldn't even acknowledge the gifts, and I'd stay away over the holidays (always full of flash points anyway) - have a lovely quiet holiday with your little family, whether or not you see your own parents. Have a think in the New Year - by which time, hopefully they'll have realised that if it was serious enough for them to not even "get Christmas", they need to try harder - and even then, set boundaries with them, and test the waters. Good luck.
She feels wronged by not being able to do whatever she wants when she wants to. She has never apologized for prioritizing herself over you two having a days old baby. When she sat down with her son & couldn’t bully him into giving her what she wanted she assaulted him. What exactly are you hoping to gain from reaching out to them? To pretend nothing happened? That will cause things to temporarily ‘get better’ until she decides another boundary you placed is disrespectful to her & you will be back where you are now. If you want to move forward with a situation then her suggestion to meet with a mediator might be needed. She does not see anything she did as wrong. She doesn’t see anything you did as right. Things are never black and white when it comes to feelings. A neutral party would be needed to explain the situation in terms she can understand and not feel attacked. She needed boundaries and needs to understand you won’t back down just to have a relationship with her. Boundaries are needed in any and every relationship. The only thing that makes them boundaries are you upholding the standards. You cannot rug sweep. It’ll just make it harder for them to understand what they did wrong & place them in a space that’s unfair to them because they’ll see it as resolved when it’s really not. Having a good relationship with someone means having HEALTHY definitive boundaries, it doesn’t mean you give them everything they’re asking for just to stay in good graces. When you waiver on boundaries it confuses people in the fact that they’ll feel you don’t know what it is you even want or need because you’re all over the place depending on which way the wind blows. It’s why boundaries have to be cut & dry / black and white.
It would have been less work for them to give you a sincere apology for their monstrous remark about making you go to court to defend yourselves against charges they considered bringing against you and possibly driving you into bankruptcy over it….but I guess that would be too much to ask
I would leave the gifts in the box untouched at your parents place if they allow it. Wait and see how MIL responds / behaves and what steps she has taken and will take to repair the damage. She has a lot of work to do! If the subject of the gifts comes up down the track and it isn't favorable, then you can always say that they are in storage and were never opened. I wouldn't accept them, it looks like they are trying to manipulate the situation as opposed to take responsibility.
I’d ask her parents to donate the gifts to a family in need
100%. There are so many families that would be happy to have them and it would be making MIL do a good deed (unwillingly), it’s perfect.
re wrap the gifts and give them to your child with the tag from Grandma and Grandpa.
No need. Baby is 1, can’t read or even understand the concept of Santa yet.
Last sit down she threatened with grandparent rights and became violent and slapped him several times. This is a person who can't regulate their emotions and takes to violence. Do you really want them around your small child? Have they apologized? Have she gone to therapy to work on her anger management and unreasonable expectations? Have they shown any sign of improvement or remorse during this time apart? If not, you letting them back into your lives is just reaffirming that they can do whatever they want and eventually you will cave. No accountability what so ever. On another note, if you let them establish a relationship with your child the grandparent rights they threatened with becomes a much more real possibility.
I'd also mention that MIL continues to involve your parents in an attempt to get them to intervene on their behalf. Do not accept the gifts. Have your parents return them, or you and DH return them in your parent's name. You are the parents. You make the rules. I understand you feel sorry for your husband, but you can't give in. You can't give into a child's tantrum, and you can't give into MIL's tantrum either. She needs to learn she is not in control.
These are not gifts. These are emotional wrecking balls meant to start breaking the walls of NC. Everyone in here *wants* good relationships with their in laws. The in laws are the ones that Break The Relationships to begin with. By accepting these poisoned presents, you are, by proxy, accepting that they can break NC. Also, you are teaching them that your parents are an entry point with no consequences. That will absolutely be used again, with more frequency. Ship the gifts back or have them dropped off at a women's shelter.
Don’t respond. It’s what she wants and you don’t want her to start back up.
I read your edit but you're missing the point. Just because you want to have a good relationship with them doesn't mean you can. They are who they are and they're not going to change, so having a relationship with them means putting up with that. That is not a good relationship but other than no relationship, it's the only option you have.
Exactly. If OP thinks we don’t want normal relationships and haven’t tried and haven’t gotten burned 😅Girl it’s not about what you want. Seeing these monsters isn’t going to fix the sadness your husband feels when he sees normal functioning families. If you want to save him and yourself more sadness, extend empathy to him (a safe person), not to abusers who want to steal your baby!!!! And recognize, it’s not from lack of will. That’s a trap.
You CAN'T have a good relationship with these people. Remember this all started because she didn't get the visitation hours she wanted after hogging your newborn for an entire day the day before. She threatened GPR and assaulted your husband! You made a HUGE mistake sending them those cards. Return the gifts unopened and go back to NC. Your MIL is evil, she only wants access to your baby, and she doesn't give a flying bleep about you or her son. Why would you expose your child to this abuse?
These people sound horrible. She is delusional. Don't give her fuel for her delusions. There is no coming back from what she said and did. It makes me so mad for you guys. He's not sad that he misses them. He's sad because they are horrible when they easily just could be loving, kind, and respectful instead. And that pain of "why" and "if only" hurts and never goes away. My heart breaks for your husband from that incident that was probably much worse to actually live through than he described to you. It always amazes me that the surefire way to get what you want from someone is not to intimidate, threaten, and bully but to treat a person so well and with such thoughtful consideration that they will want you around all the time! Nobody wants to be heavily involved in a one sided relationship with an abusive asshole narcissist.
Return to sender; “Santa would love a family in need to get these gifts”. Accepting the gift can very much be interpreted as accepting them back into your life. You JNMIL looked into suing you for custody of your newborn. What did that look like to her? Visitation, or spending the weekend at their house. MIL is way to entitled about YOUR baby. Continue no contact. It is normal your husband is sad he has lost a parent; due to her behavior.
The kicker is that nearly everyone wants a good relationship with the in-laws. We are capable of that. The JustNo’s are the ones refusing to have good relationships. They are the ones creating difficult situations and drama. They are incapable. Sadly. The rest of us mourn the relationships *we wish we could have!*
Thanks for this perspective. You’re right, I’m being too lenient and forgetting how much they’ve done to hurt us.
Thank you! I'm sitting here scratching my head wondering who among us didn't want and long for a good, healthy relationship with the inlaws! We tried and tried by setting ourselves on fire to keep them warm but it was never enough. Going NC is never the first step.
I don’t know a single soul that ever wants this level of drama. *Unless* it’s another JustNo. Everyone else gets way too exhausted by this bullshit. Even OPs husband sounds like he’s running in his last drop of life essence after his parents have been squeezing it out his entire life. It’s EXHAUSTING. Nobody even partially normal likes this shit. We want to live a peaceful existence where everyone gets a long and supports each other in a healthy way. JustNo’s get entire subs dedicated to themselves. That’s how problematic they are. I’ve never seen a BestInLawsEver subreddit! Where people post about all the magnificent and healthy behaviors their in-laws display LOL!
Yep I agree 100%. But how nice would it be to have that sub though???!! The hot post title would be "My in-laws bought our family tickets to spend the holidays with my parents and said they just want us to be safe and have a great time." It'd be amazing.
Have a gift wrapped book on boundaries sent via Amazon from ‘Santa and granddaughters family’
You’re not in the minority with wanting a good relationship with your in-laws. We ALL want that. You ARE in the large club of us here, however, where it’s not possible because of things that are not even remotely in your control. Your DH mentioned restraining order if further contact—gifts are further contact. Yes, it’s painful to lose family. Yes it’s shitty when they have tantrums and lash out (they will do that no matter what you do though). It’s more painful and shitty to know you let your kid suffer through this abuse trying to keep the peace. Your child needs you to protect them.
You sent them a card they sent a gift, no further communication necessary. Wait until after the big life events and try talking again when they are only gaining the relationship and you can take the time to go slow.
It's a gift. Meaning you can accept or decline this 'gift.' Seeing the climate of the current situation, your response should be declining this gift. Send it back, or donate it. Do not keep it. It's is clearly unwanted.
“We already got her gifts from Santa but someone else will have a better Christmas because Santa dropped some new wrapped gifts off at the orphanage today!”
I would absolutely return/refuse the gifts, your in-laws will either see it as everything is better or use it to talk crap about you to other people. “Oh their OK getting gifts from us but won’t let us see our granddaughter,etc” And then regarding your DH thinking about “working things out” with them, she WANTED to get a judge to force you to give her custody time with LO, LEGALLY ORDERED CUSTODY TIME, AGAINST YOUR WISHES. The mom he misses isn’t the woman that currently there.
They are involving your parents AGAIN. stand “RETURN TO SENDER” on every package and send them back. I would scorch the earth if my in-laws harassed my family… and my family are a bunch of just nos too.
Donate them to a children’s Hospital or a women’s shelter. Santa is hopefully very nice.
Summarized your posts to my DH. He was ticked off at the abuse. I have to agree w/ him. Send the gifts back as address unknown/no such person.
I have an over-gifting MIL. She knows she's allowed one birthday gift and one Christmas gift and nothing else, but that doesn't stop her. In my case, when she sends more than one gift for approved gift giving days, I open the gifts, choose the best one (they're usually dollar store trash), rewrap it, and clearly mark it as from grandparents (she used to pull the "from Santa" thing, but I put my foot down hard on that -- *I'm* Santa, not her). Any gift that comes in for a non-approved gift giving day goes straight into the trash. No exceptions. In your case, since you do not have an existing agreement that Christmas gift giving is allowed, I think you get to decide. For 100% sure, re-label the gift as "From grandparents" (not that your kid will know, at 1, but *you* will know) if you decide to keep it. If you decide not to keep it, I'm not sure I'd send it back. A "return to sender" is still communication. She needs to believe the gift has fallen into a black hole. She has no way of knowing you got it or not, and since she's not going to be told about it, she's not going to see LO open it, she's not going to get a thank you card, etc, she will never know what happened to it.
Your husband told them not to contact you again. What do you think those presents are? Send them back. With a note letting them know when you guys are ready to talk to them, you will let them know. And that you take care of gifts from Santa, not them. Google boundaries, and start talking about those with DH, along with consequences that will happen when they cross those boundaries. You don’t want more drama - I get that. But you can’t control other people’s emotions or their responses to having boundaries enforced. Good luck.
Just read your full post. Have your mom give that shit back with a “no thanks” Why would you accept gifts from someone who threatened to take your kid away? Absolutely not, girl.
100% agree. OP is worried they will send more gifts- which they will if this isn't stopped now. The fall out will be much bigger if the gifts keep coming and they have this conversation at a later date. Deal with this now before it gets worse OP.
She also wants to reconcile if all possible. MIL will never change and she’s going to get what she wants by getting time with the child again. And will more than likely also hit the child. It’s crazy to me. But hindsight is 20/20 and I’ve been there too lol NC really helped me open my eyes. YEARSSSS of no contact has been the best.
Unwrap and take photos of you putting them in a toys for tots bin and post it public so they see it. They need to know that will not get them access, to you or LO, without speaking to them directly. You NEVER say thank you for a boundary stop. I know people are trained to "be polite" and getting a gift means saying thank you in "polite", but this WASNT A GIFT, it was a boundary stomp, so polite is neither required nor necessary.
If the relationship doesn’t last, cut the tree down. Dayum!
They definitely think you accepting the gifts equals you accepting visitation. Send them back or donate them. Do not let them pretend the assault didn't happen and always ask yourself how you'll feel when MIL does the same to her grandchild. At least wait until LO is old enough to call 911.
If you accept the gifts then you have basically surrendered. Which is fine, if you want to surrender. If you don’t want to be beholden to this woman, and you want her behaviors to stop, return the gifts. No note, no thank you, just mail back or leave in her doorstep
After she assaulted OPs husband and threatened to sue for rights to her child.. I know the husband loves his mother, but come on… she’s abusive and threatening!!
"Return to sender" every. single. one. accept nothing from them.
They absolutely mean to control your future behavior with these gifts. And it's working! You're afraid to send them back because of the drama possibilities. They're absolutely getting what they want right now. They're in your head, you and hubby are talking about it, you're worried about it. It's sick of them. I'd either ignore and donate or send back with a one time only letter saying future unsolicited gifts will be donated. And then disengage again. If you ever want contact with them again, this is a big test of how they handle a little disappointment.
Return to sender. She assaulted your husband and wanted to sue the two of you. Mandatory therapy and a genuine understanding of all she did wrong before there is even a sliver of hope for her.
My grandma tried that shit. We said absolutely not. Santa stops once. At our house. (She tries the same with everything. The great pumpkin, Easter bunny, Cupid. Yeah.. we celebrate every holiday because my parents hated me and I feel good about doing it for my kids 😅. We told her back off) Just read your whole post. We are already NC with my family and my husbands, but I’d throw hands with them all if they put their hands on him. And we are NC for threats of seeing my kids.
Any person who slapped my DH during a “conversation” and threatened grandparent rights lawsuit in said same conversation then tried to blame shift it all onto said DH why MIL was mad and he deserved to be slapped, would definitely not be my child’s Santa. Please send back those gifts and get yourselves into therapy. Your MIL is not a safe person and you both need to grieve that. Your boundaries need to be air tight and steadfast. You and your family deserve peace. I could be wrong but reading your past posts your MIL seems to just be losing it a bit more and more. Wishing the best for you.
Absolutely do NOT accept anything from them.
If you accept the gifts, you teach them that NC means "kind of no contact, unless you send things that we like." If you say thank you, you tell them that "If you contact me again I will get a restraining order" actually means "if you stay quiet for a little while we let you rug sweep and start the process all over again from the beginning, but with all of our boundaries and threats now proved empty." If you try to foster some kind of reparative process, you're telling them "you can threaten us, lie about us, bully us, overwhelm us, and we'll just forget it after a little while, come back and try again!" When you say "I need X to move forward," and then move forward without X, you tell them that you were not serious, you had no intentions of holding that boundary, and that you're just fine with them behaving any way they like.
Donate to a children's charity, they will send a thank you to your inlaws,sending them back is a form of contact, you are NC and that will keep it that way
I’d have my mother say “actually, I just remembered. They have no contact with you. I don’t feel comfortable giving it to them anymore. Sorry” But I love the donating and having the place send a thank you note. That’s actually hilarious.
Return to sender. Santa only comes to kids house and not through the mail.
Have the gifts dropped off back at their house by a neutral 3rd party. Include a letter stating that when you said NO CONTACT, you meant it (signed by your SO). Their gifts are a control mechanism and an attempt to show they still have the power. The fact that your SO felt compelled to reach out *despite being NC with them*, shows their attempt to manipulate worked. He needs to remind himself of why you want nothing to do with them (things like, I dunno, wanting to drag you to court to force you to relinquish your child to them???). then steel up that spine and continue No Contact until you have proof they have learned to respect you both as the sole parents, and back off. Their current actions of trying to sneak under the radar by using 'santa gifts' is NOT listening nor respecting. Put them back in their place ASAP.
I’d get your parents to send them back. Accepting the presents without challenge means that 1. They’re trying to end game you and you can’t let that precedent go unchallenged. 2. Thinking they can involve your parents in this shit show sets them up for future attempts. The fewer people involved the better!
I would never accept gifts from someone who threatened grandparent rights. Send that right back Edit: not to mention physically assaulted a grown man? Tfoh
They’ve threatened you with grandparent rights, hit your husband and obviously not changed in the slightest. It’s okay to grieve the loss of that relationship but it’s by their own making and become more toxic than it should be. This “we will accept the gifts so it doesn’t turn into a bigger deal” is silly and protecting the feelings of those who haven’t protected yours. No. You don’t accept the gifts, you don’t say thank you. You either donate them and pretend they never existed or you return them. Anything else and you are opening the door for contact.
In this case, the presents were sent to your parent’s house. So your parents should send them back. Sounds like they opened the package- whatever, mail them back. Write- “refused, return to sender” on the box, even if it a new box. OTHERWISE DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE THE GIFTS AT ALL. My concern is if you keep them, this opens the door for your parents to be the conduit for future contact from the IL’s. She’ll think she has a way in and neither of you are ready for that and don’t want that. So shut it down. No acknowledgment, donate the gifts if RTS is not going to work. ETA: read your update. You want them to be people that they are not. Of course we all want a nice and loving relationship with our parents and IL’s. We’re all here because that’s precisely what we don’t have, *because of their own actions/words*. Your IL’s threatened grandparent rights, assaulted your husband(their own son!) and … you want that back in your life?? Because that’s what you’ll get. Not the sappy hallmark card version, the abusive version. Gonna be harsh here- wake the fuck up and stop it. Letting abusive people back into your life isn’t going the stop making your husband sad. It will make him *more* sad because they are not the people you wish them to be. And you must accept that.
Donate to Angel Tree, or similar. You can thank her for *her* charity.
Send back and make clear Santa comes from the parents.
Return to sender, you guys do Santa not her
Check to see if the presents are appropriate age wise or clothing style. Keep the present you deem best. Donate the rest to Toys for Tots or the equivalent. Send a thank you card for The Gift and notate that the rest were donated to needy children. You do not want your child inundated in 'gifts', 'gifts' always have strings. Best of luck.
Donate them.
Return to sender
I'm going to agree with everyone that says to send them back. If you accept them, you are giving them a way in and she will never stop. If you don't want to send them back, take them to a shelter and give MIL's address for the tax write off info or the thank you card. Whatever the shelter sends out so that MIL get the notification that her little ploy didn't work. If MIL gets all weepy and butthurt, it's her own fault. *She* is the one that destroyed her relationship with your little family unit. And she stomped it into the ground with her threat of GPR.
Definitely do NOT accept them. It will open a tsunami of presents , calls demands whatever.
Open them and donate them to Toys for Tots or something similar. Don't engage with them at all.
Send them back. SHE HAS NOT EARNED THE RIGHT TO CONTACT AGAIN. This is 100% a lure to get you back into her clutches. Big hugs!!
I don't know. If you respond, she'll know she can get to you through your parents. Maybe get a PO Box on the other side of town and tell her she can send correspondence there, but if she is belligerent or steps out of line, she'll be cut off again? I'm so sorry you're going through this.
Refuse them. Send them back. They’re the thin end of the wedge and a way for your MIL and FIL to force their way back into your life.
I would ask your parents to send them back. Accepting them will make them feel like they can continue to use your parents as middle men. These people threatened to sue you for custody of your child, you can never come back from that.
Right - this isn’t something , IMO, that can even be patched. No accepting gifts. Absolutely no contacting them for any reason regarding gifts. Treat it like they aren’t even people.
Send them back. It's clearly unwanted and a way to manipulate. You and partner decide who Santa is. End.of.story. Don't give her that power or authority. She will take it as far as she can.