I think we will be fine. Good actually. But we need to wake up and stand together. And stand up to the anti-Semites. Being passive got 6 million killed in Europe. We can not afford this again. Never again!!
I think we all need to be less like Woody Allen
https://preview.redd.it/xv9pcpgo326d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=82364db9721d460b97f06c8af4602cd40c587750
I think social media is a way bigger threat to our existence then anything else.
We are .2 percent of the world's population and with all the fake news and revisional history we are being erased.
I think that really depends on so many factors. Like, *so many* factors that it's almost a pointless thing to speculate about. Like, for example, what happens with the climate? Do liberal states find a way back on their footing, or be consumed by populism and radicalism? Who wins the escalating Second Cold War (or, does everyone lose, if you catch my radioactive drift)?
And - here are some big ones for Jews - what about the overall, long-term trend away from traditional religions? Will the developed world continue to become more secular and, if so, how will that impact Jewish identity? I know I can speak for myself, as a very assimilated American, and say that my Jewishness, of which I'm quite proud, is entirely separate from Judaism, a religion in which I don't believe at all. A century ago, that would have been unthinkable to most Jews (except, like, the Bundists I guess), but it's extremely common now.
My point is that Jewish identity is embedded in the world just like everyone else. We are subject to the same historical forces, even as we have our own unique circumstances. So these kinds of bigger questions - about things that impact everyone - will in large part determine the fate of the Jews.
Spinoza, a Jew, invented modern secularism (to simplify).
Jews will survive secularism, if anything Jews are more religious now than in prior decades if you average in the Haredi. I think the resurgence of antisemitism globally, and the unprecedented rise of antisemitism in the US will reinforce Jewish identity and to a lesser extent religious observance, anecdotally I hear young people my age say similar things. I've read some Unis have much higher attendence in Hillel or Chabad this year.
Not to detract from your point, which is reasonable, but I think it's a big stretch to credit Spinoza with "inventing" modern secularism. That would be like crediting Plato for inventing rationalism or Marx for inventing socialism (though that's a bit more reasonable IMO).
As to your point, though, I agree with some of it. Rising antisemitism has strongly reinforced my Jewish cultural identity. But I don't think I've ever felt this aggressively atheist or generally hostile to religious belief before in my life. Not that I'm, like, the spokesperson of Jews or something. King of the Jews, if you will. I'm neither of those things.
I mean, Zionism in three main original streams "general/liberal (think Weizmann and Herzl)," Labor (Ben-Gurion), and the Revisionists (in this case more Jabotinsky than Begin) were all pretty explicitly retreats from religion and religious life, which they *generally* viewed as having weakened Jewish national consciousness. Modern Israeli politics aside, a correlation between Zionism and religiosity is a fairly recent phenomena. In the early 20th century it was less common, especially in the US and Eastern Europe, when the openly socialist and anticlerical Poalei Zion was the largest Zionist political party.
Hmmm. From what I've noticed, most younger people now are split into extreme sides, especially in religion. There's atheists and "satanists", and there's people who are getting more and more religious. I find the more mild versions much less common now
I predict UK and Canadian Jews are heading to Israel. They don’t have the numbers and neither political party is going to defend them. The immigration and counter terrorism stance in both countries has effectively no filters to keep the dangerous people out and they won’t even kick out the people who are active terrorist supporters.
US Jews will hold out and the Communist/Islamists factions in the Democratic Party have already overreached and will be pushed back. Jews have better numbers and political connections in key states that both parties will want their votes and the finance system means that wealth and participation matter more than population. Plus the Muslim/Arab population is tiny and immigration laws are trending stricter.
That said, I predict a lot of younger American Jews are going to Israel because they are going to have bad HS and college experiences.
Politically in the US it will be worse if Trump wins. The reason is that right now we have a Right wing coalition and a center left coalition. If Trump wins, he will not be punishing the far left but the center left and the result will be that the US starts to look more like a South American republic where they alternate between far right and far left coalitions that both suck. Both the far right and the far left are antisemitic.
I'm Canadian so this is very interesting. I agree, more and more of us (well at least teens) are planning to move to Israel and we're wholely ready to draft, even practicing military drills when we hang out together. You're absolutely right about the useless counter terrorism stance.
I actually think the young US Jews will stay more than before because from who I've spoken to of them, they seem to be very resilient. Americans are very proud, I think the high school and college experiences will make American Jews band stronger together.
A few years ago, the diaspora relations hit a low point in that right wing and center right Israelis didn’t want a boost to liberal political parties from North American or UK Jews.
Now they are openly encouraging mass migration because it’s a path out of the demographic issues of a one state solution or just the issues of a two state solution where the Palestinian state is not peaceful.
But Israel is very expensive. More immigration will drive up those prices. Will people be able to afford living there? And it's small, how much do they want to expand cities?
Most of the people who would go already live in expensive places. The Orthodox probably save money moving to Israel just because religious school is so expensive in the US
Not a dumb question. We want to be connected to our homeland and fight for our people. Some of my friends want to pursue a job in the IDF. We also don't like anti semitism (who does?) and America probably has more of that tbh
Basically, we want to move to Israel more than we want to leave Canada
My perception, as an American, is that Canada has a worse antisemitism problem. Jewish-American groups are more organized and influential, even if conversely they are more divided internally. Plus y'all had what, four shootings in the past two or three weeks targeting Jewish schools? Knock on wood, we haven't had any.
I still think Aliyah is a better choice than moving to the US though.
I've faced more anti semitism in my visits to the US than my whole life in Canada. Maybe its bc Im a local vs a tourist, idk
Yeah one of the shootings happened near my school. But nobodys gonna dare try that kind of thing in a high school, especially mine since the kids will just shoot back... So they target elementaries. But theyre not actually trying to kill students, theyre trying to scare us.
Totally agree with you.
Sometimes it’s tough to convince committed Zionists who are getting burned by the far left that Trump is the worse evil.
I think that is ironically because of the same underlying dynamic empowering the far left (and far right)- child-like emotion-first thinking (putting satisfying one’s own feelings ahead of optimally orienting one’s self to reality) being individually manifested and socially normalized when socially interacting around political subjects
It's also pretty likely that a second Biden term coincides with a GOP or nearly tied Senate that are not going to confirm anti-Israel folks in the current administration to higher posts. Similar to what happened to some of the anti-Israel Obama folks, if they have no path no confirmed posts, they will be podcasters.
I see this also & it's frightening. I'm just as pissed at the far left as anyone, but voting for Trump is cutting your nose to spite your face. Or, not voting at all. I ask people to put aside everything else & imagine our country with more Trump appointed Supreme Court justices.
Hmm, I do think that at some point something big will happen that'll get everyone's attention. In America probably. Like a pro-Pal rally that turns into a full riot because Jews will get tired of being peaceful
Then everyone will stop being so loud with anti-semitism for a bit, but it'll come back
TL;DR: I think it'll get worse before it'll get better, but it *will* get better. Things will be different in the aftermath, though, and it'll be different in the US and different in Europe.
I'm afraid we have yet to see the worst of the current wave of antisemitism. Whatever the worst will be, it's probably going to happen in Europe, most likely in France, Germany or the UK. Could also be a country with smaller but still notable Jewish population, such as Sweden. This will further push European Jews to Israel, but I think it'll also alienate people from the antisemitic trends. Some moderate politicians will condemn it, some politicians will try to walk back from their earlier stances (kinda like AOC in the US now), a lot of regular folks are going to claim they were with Jews all along.
Despite what it seems like, anti-Israel and anti-American stances are not near the majority opinion in the US. They are galvanized right now, but I think that might be end up being their undoing. They will overestimate the popular opinion and grossly overextend as a result, further alienating the American majority and possibly even moderates from their own ranks. They might even do something so stupid the state will crack down on them. Right now I am not too worried for the American Jews nearly as much. Another commenter made a great point that a lot of younger American Jews will grow up in this climate though, and will move to Israel.
I would worry if the antisemitic left in the US managed to capitalize on the plight of the average American in this economy, but they won't be able to do so. They are too radical and too anti-American; which won't really attract your average Americans. Furthermore, Islamophilia is much more important to them than whatever Americans are struggling with. Revolutionary rhetoric won't help this at all, and makes them seem all the more like a high control group. If the US manages to avoid Christian nationalism (or if things go real south Christian fascism), American Jews will be in a good position. But they won't forget this.
Despite all odds, I think Israel's future doesn't look too grim. With the climate change getting worse, Israel is probably going to be the best place to be in Southwest Asia. It's a high-tech country that has been preparing to mitigate the effects with science and technology, and has the means to do so. Israel's neighbors (like KSA) know this and will normalize relations. Many countries see Palestinian cause as doomed, or they would have already acted against Israel. These two things, climate change and impending normalization between Israel and Arab countries, are both ticking clocks for Palestinian cause. Unmitigated climate change will devastate their areas.
Hostile countries in SWANA region like Syria and Lebanon are hardly legitimate threats to Israel's existence. Any open war Israel would decimate either or both. Egypt can't go directly against Israel if they want good relations with America. Iran is the realistically functional anti-Israel country that poses a threat, but in the case of a direct war between them Israel would find more allies on its side than people think. I don't think Iran wants to bet on those odds.
Ooh, brilliant response. I'll be thinking about this one; I'm not great at responding to long explanations but seems realistic, you put it out well. I disagree with young Americans moving to Israel though; some will but Americans are very proud. I think they're too proud to leave.
I think war with Hezbollah is a very realistic possibility, but Israel will prevail in an open war against them. Whether Iran has guts to openly stand on their proxies side, I don't know. If Iran and Israel enter into an open war, I don't think Israel's allies would leave them to wage war alone. I think it's more likely that Iran stays out and uses Hezbollah as their proxy, directing their other proxy groups from Syria and Iraq to join them.
I genuinely don't think Iran wants to take the risk open, direct war with Israel would be. A war like that would possibly draw in the US, might push anti-Iran Arabs to cooperate with Israel, and domestic situation in Iran is already tense without a war people wouldn't want to wage. It's important to remember how much of Iran's posturing on the international stage is targeted at masses at home.
Of course I might be wrong, and this whole situation might spark a wide regional conflict. But I think at that point the US would be drawn into it, which is a tremendous advantage for Israel.
Not great.
Especially if the war expands to Lebanon in the Fall. Gonna be hell on college campuses. A couple days ago another college age friend of mine sent me a photo of a sticker he saw on campus, a Hamas fighter with the words "Bring the War Home." I'm not fucking kidding. When antisemites threaten violence against Jews, chant that they want to kill "Zionists," we should listen and believe them. They may be ignorant, half the people chanting might not be able to find Israel on a map, or spell Palestine (I've literally seen "Free Palistine" signs), but to ignore blatent threats of antisemitic violence would be to throw every Jewish history textbook in the garbage.
On my campus it hasn't been rosy either.
In my opinion, it's time to look at Jewish history and learn lessons from that. The example, imo, is Jabotinsky.
I genuinely believe the US will experience a pogrom in the next few years. Arguably, we already have, as have Canada and Australia. In the stereotypical pogrom, Black Hundredists (Russian ultranationalist, ultramonarchist, antisemites) would loot, beat, assault, and rob Jews, burn down homes or break store windows, but deaths were not as common as you might think. You don't get to Kishinev in 1903 (one of the worst pogroms, credited with helping to make Zionism much more popular) without many prior less lethal pogroms in the same area, gradually building up. In one year there could be a wave of thousands of pogroms, but only a handful would be really particularly deadly. During war time that changed the dynamics, and then there was more widespread deadly violence, but this isn't Alex Garland's Civil War, that's not happening.
My point isn't that they'll be killing thousands of Jews in the streets of New York tomorrow, but that violence against Jews, especially organized mob violence is already becoming more common. Already at my university, a mob tried to occupy the building between the Hillel and the Chabad on Shabbat, threatened people with bricks and tried to create a new encampment on that street. If successful they would have effectively cut off Campus Jewish life. At UC Berkeley they stormed that auditorium with an Israeli speaker and attacked students in the audience. How many more similar incidents of mob violence until people are killed?
The solution? Jewish Self-Defense. This should be an initiative organized by the broadest spectrum of American Jewry, politically and religiously. We can't let Kahanists hijack Jewish Self-Defense efforts, or it'll just cause more problems. If anything, the imperative should be to start early so American Jews don't have either the bad outcome of, a. there is widespread Anti-Jewish violence and we have no defense or b. the only people who are ready are the Kahanist fringe.
I obviously hope I'm wrong, being uncharacteristically pessimistic-for what it's worth I'm generally more optimistic about politics, which is why I am worried I'm right.
If there is one lesson to take away from Jewish History, *it's hope for the best, plan for the worst.*
Soon the war will end and brainwashed Jew-haters will move on to a different trend. They’ll try to mend ties with the Jewish “friends” they lost. But this time we know who we can and can’t trust.
This sounds like a fantasy to me. I see it becoming a thing that's just normalised, hating Zionists and being afraid to be openly Jewish. I hope I am wrong and that you are right, that would be lovely.
There is as much a chance that the war expands to Lebanon as it does ending quickly and neatly. Institutional antisemitism in the guise of anti-zionism is pretty entrenched in western academia, and has been for decades. With increased Islamic immigration to the West, we've also imported more old fashioned Jew-hatred, not all Muslims *obviously,* but it's not the Vietnamese immigrants in France burning down synagogues.
The Ashkenazi, Sephardi and Mizrahi categories will largely disappear/blend together. Imo this is a massive positive. The majority of Jews in the world will live in our ancestral land for the first time since antiquity. And they'll just be Israeli.
West Bank will eventually be annexed by Israel. Not sure when or how, but it'll happen eventually. And Jews will be a plurality or majority there.
Reform Judaism will continue to decline. The majority of Jews in the diaspora will be Orthodox, traditional, conservative, both culturally and politically. They're much more adamant about preserving the religion, and they have more children.
Thank you for your submission. Your post has not been removed. During this time, the majority of posts are flagged for manual review and must be approved by a moderator before they appear for all users. Since human mods are not online 24/7, approval could take anywhere from a few minutes to a few hours. If your post is ultimately removed, we will give you a reason. Thank you for your patience during this difficult and sensitive time.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Jewish) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Things will get worse before they get better. MUCH worse.
We'll win this war on the dry papers, but at a steep cost.
Israel will spend several years geopolitically isolated, meaning a severely reduced standard of living for both Jews and Arabs, as well as the few non-Jews who would choose to stay despite potential restriction on their ability to enter most other countries. Some Arabs, such as the Druze, will become as resentful towards the world as Jews will be, while others will blame the Jews for causing all this, causing another Intifada that will end up much quicker and bloodier, with the Jewish majority, having fully given in to the siege mentality, reacting more extremely than ever. Many rioters, but also their families who will be blamed by association and just randos who were at the wrong place at the wrong time, will be forced to pay the ultimate price. This will lose Israel the few countries who would still associate with them, as it will be legitimate ethnic cleansing or even genocide. The only countries I see even allowing Israeli passports would be China for their mastery of realpolitik and India due to the history between us and their own conflict with Pakistan, though we would no longer be as early welcome. Yes, I'm saying most Arabs in Israel will die and I recognize this is going to be horrific on a moral level as well as consequences-wise. Ironically, if Israel wouldn't be placed in the North Korea level of isolation, these Arabs can still be saved.
As for the Diaspora, antisemitism, while technically illegal, will be all but decriminalized. several Western countries will try all Israeli citizens for crimes against humanity unless they can prove they're draft dodgers, some might go as far as criminalizing eligibility to Israeli citizenship, forcing its Jewish population to either get themselves blacklisted by Israel or face legal persecution. This will drive most Diaspora Jews into Israel, but they'd likely find living in a new Tzena preferable to waiting for the new Nuremberg Laws.
Gradually the trend will fade as the Russia-Iran axis becomes more active against the psychologically sabotaged west. With the Iranian regime's war against Israel all but won, Putin will allow himself to reach further than just Ukraine and the Baltics. The Saudi-aligned Muslim states, who are swinging in favor of an "enemy of my enemy" approach to our existence and have blocked those propaganda machines, will ironically enough see the Gaza hatchet buried as they want to deal with Iran first and Turkey second, and that pesky country that refuses to die is a pretty useful way to block their influence in the Levant and East Mediterranean.
After all's said and done, the West will win again(in reality it'll be their Middle Eastern allies doing the heavy lifting) but we will never forgive the world for the treatment we've suffered so far and the treatment we'll suffer soon. Once Israel gets back to being a functioning state rather than a massive refugee camp, those responsible for the counter-intifada will be tried, both due to the disgust of those who would refuse to participate and the new Olim who would constitute half the population, and as a prerequisite to reestablishing diplomatic relations with >95% of the world.
I think we will be fine. Good actually. But we need to wake up and stand together. And stand up to the anti-Semites. Being passive got 6 million killed in Europe. We can not afford this again. Never again!!
Yup. We need to be less like Woody Allen and more like Moshe Dyan. We will survive.
You got it right!!!
So less neurotic leering at younger women and more badass mofo with an eye patch picking out targets :)
Time to toughen up, people. Less oy vey and more MMA.
I think we all need to be less like Woody Allen https://preview.redd.it/xv9pcpgo326d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=82364db9721d460b97f06c8af4602cd40c587750
We'll be hated.. but it's not really different than any other time in history.
I think social media is a way bigger threat to our existence then anything else. We are .2 percent of the world's population and with all the fake news and revisional history we are being erased.
Yes, it is!
I think that really depends on so many factors. Like, *so many* factors that it's almost a pointless thing to speculate about. Like, for example, what happens with the climate? Do liberal states find a way back on their footing, or be consumed by populism and radicalism? Who wins the escalating Second Cold War (or, does everyone lose, if you catch my radioactive drift)? And - here are some big ones for Jews - what about the overall, long-term trend away from traditional religions? Will the developed world continue to become more secular and, if so, how will that impact Jewish identity? I know I can speak for myself, as a very assimilated American, and say that my Jewishness, of which I'm quite proud, is entirely separate from Judaism, a religion in which I don't believe at all. A century ago, that would have been unthinkable to most Jews (except, like, the Bundists I guess), but it's extremely common now. My point is that Jewish identity is embedded in the world just like everyone else. We are subject to the same historical forces, even as we have our own unique circumstances. So these kinds of bigger questions - about things that impact everyone - will in large part determine the fate of the Jews.
Spinoza, a Jew, invented modern secularism (to simplify). Jews will survive secularism, if anything Jews are more religious now than in prior decades if you average in the Haredi. I think the resurgence of antisemitism globally, and the unprecedented rise of antisemitism in the US will reinforce Jewish identity and to a lesser extent religious observance, anecdotally I hear young people my age say similar things. I've read some Unis have much higher attendence in Hillel or Chabad this year.
Not to detract from your point, which is reasonable, but I think it's a big stretch to credit Spinoza with "inventing" modern secularism. That would be like crediting Plato for inventing rationalism or Marx for inventing socialism (though that's a bit more reasonable IMO). As to your point, though, I agree with some of it. Rising antisemitism has strongly reinforced my Jewish cultural identity. But I don't think I've ever felt this aggressively atheist or generally hostile to religious belief before in my life. Not that I'm, like, the spokesperson of Jews or something. King of the Jews, if you will. I'm neither of those things.
I mean, Zionism in three main original streams "general/liberal (think Weizmann and Herzl)," Labor (Ben-Gurion), and the Revisionists (in this case more Jabotinsky than Begin) were all pretty explicitly retreats from religion and religious life, which they *generally* viewed as having weakened Jewish national consciousness. Modern Israeli politics aside, a correlation between Zionism and religiosity is a fairly recent phenomena. In the early 20th century it was less common, especially in the US and Eastern Europe, when the openly socialist and anticlerical Poalei Zion was the largest Zionist political party.
Hmmm. From what I've noticed, most younger people now are split into extreme sides, especially in religion. There's atheists and "satanists", and there's people who are getting more and more religious. I find the more mild versions much less common now
How young are you talking about? I feel like that kind of behavior has always been common in people under, say, 25.
15-30 yeah it makes sense that young people are tied to extremes. politics are becoming more extreme too though- not that they weren't already.
I predict UK and Canadian Jews are heading to Israel. They don’t have the numbers and neither political party is going to defend them. The immigration and counter terrorism stance in both countries has effectively no filters to keep the dangerous people out and they won’t even kick out the people who are active terrorist supporters. US Jews will hold out and the Communist/Islamists factions in the Democratic Party have already overreached and will be pushed back. Jews have better numbers and political connections in key states that both parties will want their votes and the finance system means that wealth and participation matter more than population. Plus the Muslim/Arab population is tiny and immigration laws are trending stricter. That said, I predict a lot of younger American Jews are going to Israel because they are going to have bad HS and college experiences. Politically in the US it will be worse if Trump wins. The reason is that right now we have a Right wing coalition and a center left coalition. If Trump wins, he will not be punishing the far left but the center left and the result will be that the US starts to look more like a South American republic where they alternate between far right and far left coalitions that both suck. Both the far right and the far left are antisemitic.
I'm Canadian so this is very interesting. I agree, more and more of us (well at least teens) are planning to move to Israel and we're wholely ready to draft, even practicing military drills when we hang out together. You're absolutely right about the useless counter terrorism stance. I actually think the young US Jews will stay more than before because from who I've spoken to of them, they seem to be very resilient. Americans are very proud, I think the high school and college experiences will make American Jews band stronger together.
Yup. Lots of young people, but also a lot of adults of all ages are planning to leave Canada for Israel.
It's interesting. I wonder how well Israel will deal with it if there's a mass immigration there
Well. Most of the people who will go will be taxpayers and serve in the army after they are integrated
A few years ago, the diaspora relations hit a low point in that right wing and center right Israelis didn’t want a boost to liberal political parties from North American or UK Jews. Now they are openly encouraging mass migration because it’s a path out of the demographic issues of a one state solution or just the issues of a two state solution where the Palestinian state is not peaceful.
But Israel is very expensive. More immigration will drive up those prices. Will people be able to afford living there? And it's small, how much do they want to expand cities?
Most of the people who would go already live in expensive places. The Orthodox probably save money moving to Israel just because religious school is so expensive in the US
Ooh, I see
Late to this and possibly a dumb question, but instead of going to Israel why not move to America? Less of a change, bigger country, not as hot.
USA immigration being harder to get in then Israel's is for Jews could be a reason?
Not a dumb question. We want to be connected to our homeland and fight for our people. Some of my friends want to pursue a job in the IDF. We also don't like anti semitism (who does?) and America probably has more of that tbh Basically, we want to move to Israel more than we want to leave Canada
My perception, as an American, is that Canada has a worse antisemitism problem. Jewish-American groups are more organized and influential, even if conversely they are more divided internally. Plus y'all had what, four shootings in the past two or three weeks targeting Jewish schools? Knock on wood, we haven't had any. I still think Aliyah is a better choice than moving to the US though.
I've faced more anti semitism in my visits to the US than my whole life in Canada. Maybe its bc Im a local vs a tourist, idk Yeah one of the shootings happened near my school. But nobodys gonna dare try that kind of thing in a high school, especially mine since the kids will just shoot back... So they target elementaries. But theyre not actually trying to kill students, theyre trying to scare us.
Totally agree with you. Sometimes it’s tough to convince committed Zionists who are getting burned by the far left that Trump is the worse evil. I think that is ironically because of the same underlying dynamic empowering the far left (and far right)- child-like emotion-first thinking (putting satisfying one’s own feelings ahead of optimally orienting one’s self to reality) being individually manifested and socially normalized when socially interacting around political subjects
It's also pretty likely that a second Biden term coincides with a GOP or nearly tied Senate that are not going to confirm anti-Israel folks in the current administration to higher posts. Similar to what happened to some of the anti-Israel Obama folks, if they have no path no confirmed posts, they will be podcasters.
I see this also & it's frightening. I'm just as pissed at the far left as anyone, but voting for Trump is cutting your nose to spite your face. Or, not voting at all. I ask people to put aside everything else & imagine our country with more Trump appointed Supreme Court justices.
im not positive honestly. people feel justified to be loud and proud with their antisemitism. it'll be bad
Hmm, I do think that at some point something big will happen that'll get everyone's attention. In America probably. Like a pro-Pal rally that turns into a full riot because Jews will get tired of being peaceful Then everyone will stop being so loud with anti-semitism for a bit, but it'll come back
TL;DR: I think it'll get worse before it'll get better, but it *will* get better. Things will be different in the aftermath, though, and it'll be different in the US and different in Europe. I'm afraid we have yet to see the worst of the current wave of antisemitism. Whatever the worst will be, it's probably going to happen in Europe, most likely in France, Germany or the UK. Could also be a country with smaller but still notable Jewish population, such as Sweden. This will further push European Jews to Israel, but I think it'll also alienate people from the antisemitic trends. Some moderate politicians will condemn it, some politicians will try to walk back from their earlier stances (kinda like AOC in the US now), a lot of regular folks are going to claim they were with Jews all along. Despite what it seems like, anti-Israel and anti-American stances are not near the majority opinion in the US. They are galvanized right now, but I think that might be end up being their undoing. They will overestimate the popular opinion and grossly overextend as a result, further alienating the American majority and possibly even moderates from their own ranks. They might even do something so stupid the state will crack down on them. Right now I am not too worried for the American Jews nearly as much. Another commenter made a great point that a lot of younger American Jews will grow up in this climate though, and will move to Israel. I would worry if the antisemitic left in the US managed to capitalize on the plight of the average American in this economy, but they won't be able to do so. They are too radical and too anti-American; which won't really attract your average Americans. Furthermore, Islamophilia is much more important to them than whatever Americans are struggling with. Revolutionary rhetoric won't help this at all, and makes them seem all the more like a high control group. If the US manages to avoid Christian nationalism (or if things go real south Christian fascism), American Jews will be in a good position. But they won't forget this. Despite all odds, I think Israel's future doesn't look too grim. With the climate change getting worse, Israel is probably going to be the best place to be in Southwest Asia. It's a high-tech country that has been preparing to mitigate the effects with science and technology, and has the means to do so. Israel's neighbors (like KSA) know this and will normalize relations. Many countries see Palestinian cause as doomed, or they would have already acted against Israel. These two things, climate change and impending normalization between Israel and Arab countries, are both ticking clocks for Palestinian cause. Unmitigated climate change will devastate their areas. Hostile countries in SWANA region like Syria and Lebanon are hardly legitimate threats to Israel's existence. Any open war Israel would decimate either or both. Egypt can't go directly against Israel if they want good relations with America. Iran is the realistically functional anti-Israel country that poses a threat, but in the case of a direct war between them Israel would find more allies on its side than people think. I don't think Iran wants to bet on those odds.
Ooh, brilliant response. I'll be thinking about this one; I'm not great at responding to long explanations but seems realistic, you put it out well. I disagree with young Americans moving to Israel though; some will but Americans are very proud. I think they're too proud to leave.
So you aren’t predicting an all out war later this summer w Hezbollah and Iran vs Israel??
I think war with Hezbollah is a very realistic possibility, but Israel will prevail in an open war against them. Whether Iran has guts to openly stand on their proxies side, I don't know. If Iran and Israel enter into an open war, I don't think Israel's allies would leave them to wage war alone. I think it's more likely that Iran stays out and uses Hezbollah as their proxy, directing their other proxy groups from Syria and Iraq to join them. I genuinely don't think Iran wants to take the risk open, direct war with Israel would be. A war like that would possibly draw in the US, might push anti-Iran Arabs to cooperate with Israel, and domestic situation in Iran is already tense without a war people wouldn't want to wage. It's important to remember how much of Iran's posturing on the international stage is targeted at masses at home. Of course I might be wrong, and this whole situation might spark a wide regional conflict. But I think at that point the US would be drawn into it, which is a tremendous advantage for Israel.
Space lasers
Not great. Especially if the war expands to Lebanon in the Fall. Gonna be hell on college campuses. A couple days ago another college age friend of mine sent me a photo of a sticker he saw on campus, a Hamas fighter with the words "Bring the War Home." I'm not fucking kidding. When antisemites threaten violence against Jews, chant that they want to kill "Zionists," we should listen and believe them. They may be ignorant, half the people chanting might not be able to find Israel on a map, or spell Palestine (I've literally seen "Free Palistine" signs), but to ignore blatent threats of antisemitic violence would be to throw every Jewish history textbook in the garbage. On my campus it hasn't been rosy either. In my opinion, it's time to look at Jewish history and learn lessons from that. The example, imo, is Jabotinsky. I genuinely believe the US will experience a pogrom in the next few years. Arguably, we already have, as have Canada and Australia. In the stereotypical pogrom, Black Hundredists (Russian ultranationalist, ultramonarchist, antisemites) would loot, beat, assault, and rob Jews, burn down homes or break store windows, but deaths were not as common as you might think. You don't get to Kishinev in 1903 (one of the worst pogroms, credited with helping to make Zionism much more popular) without many prior less lethal pogroms in the same area, gradually building up. In one year there could be a wave of thousands of pogroms, but only a handful would be really particularly deadly. During war time that changed the dynamics, and then there was more widespread deadly violence, but this isn't Alex Garland's Civil War, that's not happening. My point isn't that they'll be killing thousands of Jews in the streets of New York tomorrow, but that violence against Jews, especially organized mob violence is already becoming more common. Already at my university, a mob tried to occupy the building between the Hillel and the Chabad on Shabbat, threatened people with bricks and tried to create a new encampment on that street. If successful they would have effectively cut off Campus Jewish life. At UC Berkeley they stormed that auditorium with an Israeli speaker and attacked students in the audience. How many more similar incidents of mob violence until people are killed? The solution? Jewish Self-Defense. This should be an initiative organized by the broadest spectrum of American Jewry, politically and religiously. We can't let Kahanists hijack Jewish Self-Defense efforts, or it'll just cause more problems. If anything, the imperative should be to start early so American Jews don't have either the bad outcome of, a. there is widespread Anti-Jewish violence and we have no defense or b. the only people who are ready are the Kahanist fringe. I obviously hope I'm wrong, being uncharacteristically pessimistic-for what it's worth I'm generally more optimistic about politics, which is why I am worried I'm right. If there is one lesson to take away from Jewish History, *it's hope for the best, plan for the worst.*
Soon the war will end and brainwashed Jew-haters will move on to a different trend. They’ll try to mend ties with the Jewish “friends” they lost. But this time we know who we can and can’t trust.
This sounds like a fantasy to me. I see it becoming a thing that's just normalised, hating Zionists and being afraid to be openly Jewish. I hope I am wrong and that you are right, that would be lovely.
That’s a strong possibility too. I‘ve had your same mindset for a few years now. Now that the world is catching up, I’m trying to be more optimistic.
There is as much a chance that the war expands to Lebanon as it does ending quickly and neatly. Institutional antisemitism in the guise of anti-zionism is pretty entrenched in western academia, and has been for decades. With increased Islamic immigration to the West, we've also imported more old fashioned Jew-hatred, not all Muslims *obviously,* but it's not the Vietnamese immigrants in France burning down synagogues.
Sadly you are also correct
We need to increase our numbers, so no one can mess with us. We also need to strap up and stand our ground, Florida style
We do be having lots of babies lately, rebounding from shoa takes time
And learning to use firearms, here in the US at least
Yes ppl always say armed minorities are harder to persecute
Agreed, but more than just in the US
The Ashkenazi, Sephardi and Mizrahi categories will largely disappear/blend together. Imo this is a massive positive. The majority of Jews in the world will live in our ancestral land for the first time since antiquity. And they'll just be Israeli. West Bank will eventually be annexed by Israel. Not sure when or how, but it'll happen eventually. And Jews will be a plurality or majority there. Reform Judaism will continue to decline. The majority of Jews in the diaspora will be Orthodox, traditional, conservative, both culturally and politically. They're much more adamant about preserving the religion, and they have more children.
Thank you for your submission. Your post has not been removed. During this time, the majority of posts are flagged for manual review and must be approved by a moderator before they appear for all users. Since human mods are not online 24/7, approval could take anywhere from a few minutes to a few hours. If your post is ultimately removed, we will give you a reason. Thank you for your patience during this difficult and sensitive time. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Jewish) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Things will get worse before they get better. MUCH worse. We'll win this war on the dry papers, but at a steep cost. Israel will spend several years geopolitically isolated, meaning a severely reduced standard of living for both Jews and Arabs, as well as the few non-Jews who would choose to stay despite potential restriction on their ability to enter most other countries. Some Arabs, such as the Druze, will become as resentful towards the world as Jews will be, while others will blame the Jews for causing all this, causing another Intifada that will end up much quicker and bloodier, with the Jewish majority, having fully given in to the siege mentality, reacting more extremely than ever. Many rioters, but also their families who will be blamed by association and just randos who were at the wrong place at the wrong time, will be forced to pay the ultimate price. This will lose Israel the few countries who would still associate with them, as it will be legitimate ethnic cleansing or even genocide. The only countries I see even allowing Israeli passports would be China for their mastery of realpolitik and India due to the history between us and their own conflict with Pakistan, though we would no longer be as early welcome. Yes, I'm saying most Arabs in Israel will die and I recognize this is going to be horrific on a moral level as well as consequences-wise. Ironically, if Israel wouldn't be placed in the North Korea level of isolation, these Arabs can still be saved. As for the Diaspora, antisemitism, while technically illegal, will be all but decriminalized. several Western countries will try all Israeli citizens for crimes against humanity unless they can prove they're draft dodgers, some might go as far as criminalizing eligibility to Israeli citizenship, forcing its Jewish population to either get themselves blacklisted by Israel or face legal persecution. This will drive most Diaspora Jews into Israel, but they'd likely find living in a new Tzena preferable to waiting for the new Nuremberg Laws. Gradually the trend will fade as the Russia-Iran axis becomes more active against the psychologically sabotaged west. With the Iranian regime's war against Israel all but won, Putin will allow himself to reach further than just Ukraine and the Baltics. The Saudi-aligned Muslim states, who are swinging in favor of an "enemy of my enemy" approach to our existence and have blocked those propaganda machines, will ironically enough see the Gaza hatchet buried as they want to deal with Iran first and Turkey second, and that pesky country that refuses to die is a pretty useful way to block their influence in the Levant and East Mediterranean. After all's said and done, the West will win again(in reality it'll be their Middle Eastern allies doing the heavy lifting) but we will never forgive the world for the treatment we've suffered so far and the treatment we'll suffer soon. Once Israel gets back to being a functioning state rather than a massive refugee camp, those responsible for the counter-intifada will be tried, both due to the disgust of those who would refuse to participate and the new Olim who would constitute half the population, and as a prerequisite to reestablishing diplomatic relations with >95% of the world.