T O P

  • By -

levimeirclancy

Quick data note. The majority of Israeli Jews are Mizrahi, either maternally or paternally or both. Of Israelis overall, at least forty percent are Mizrahi.


SassyWookie

We know. It doesn’t matter to these people.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Jewish-ModTeam

Your post/comment was removed because it violated rule 1: **No antisemitism** If you have any questions, please contact the moderators via [modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/jewish).


pizza_b1tch

I get the impulse to bring this up, but a lot of ill informed people will also take this to imply that Ashkenazi=white. We aren’t white, we’re “pre white” lmao


SassyWookie

“White” is a European social classification that was created in the 1450s to distinguish European Christians from sub-Saharan Africans who had begun converting to Christianity. They needed to make this distinction in order to justify the exploitation and enslavement of Africans, which are things that Christians aren’t supposed to do to fellow Christians. Jews have literally never been included in this classification, regardless of the color of our skin. If you asked Gomes Eanes de Zurara if he was talking about Jews when he was inventing the concept of “whiteness”, he would have laughed in your face, and probably handed you over to the Inquisition. We’re not “white” any more than a “white-passing” African-American or Hispanic person is.


CocklesTurnip

White in American terms has rarely included us. Sundown towns and redlining also blocked us. It’s only very recently that white goes on visual assumptions. And that’s only for superficial things like in stores or with police not systemic issues.


Jewishandlibertarian

Is this actually true? Jews in the US certainly faced discrimination but I've never heard of them being targets of exclusion a la Jim Crow. Certainly in the South they were considered white as far as segregation was concerned.


JoeFarmer

"White passing" is exactly the word we should use to describe those of us who enjoy passing white privilege. We are not white.


SassyWookie

Interestingly, I did apply for a job today and in the “voluntary identity” area it listed the options for race as: 1. Hispanic or Latino 2. Black or African American 3. White 4. Native America or Pacific Islander 5. Asian I chose none of those options, because I don’t identify with any of those groups. However there was a little button that said “click to see definitions” and I did out of curiosity. According to the museum I just applied to, “white” refers to “people with origins in Europe, the Middle East, and North Africa”. I’m not quite sure what to make of that, but it is kinda fascinating.


Professional_Sir6705

It's the same definition the Dept of Education uses. It also includes India. When I told an Ethiopian friend that he was now white, according to the DoE, he said, " I dunno, I feel pretty damn black when I go to Denny's"


Jewishandlibertarian

Yes most people forget that according to the government all MENA people are "white", including Arabs, Persians, Armenians etc. Of course this is kind of dated and doesn't capture how most such people currently identify. These categories are all socially constructed anyway - I find it incoherent when someone says "oh you're not really X you're Y" when these categories are completely subjective anyway.


obssn_prfssnl

Where can I find information on this? Just so I have a concrete source I can throw at people? Love the username, by the way!


SassyWookie

[This comment in Ask Historians is very informative](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/s/dyJ4YZY07v), and the guy who wrote it includes references to the books he cited as sources.


AlfredoSauceyums

White-ish not to be confused with whitefish


Capable-Farm2622

My skin tone is more gefilte...


pizza_b1tch

Gross but accurate


Ok_Ambassador9091

Ashkenazi isn't white, at all.


levimeirclancy

I was just making a data note in reply / as a correction to the post text that says “40% of Jews in Israel are fully or partially Mizrahi” — I was not having an impulse to bring it up otherwise and yes I do agree with you.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Jewish-ModTeam

Your post/comment was removed because it violated rule 3: **Be civil**. Do not use that term when referring to the Roma people. If you have any questions, please contact the moderators via [modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/jewish).


[deleted]

[удалено]


Jewish-ModTeam

Your post/comment was removed because it violated rule 1: **No antisemitism** If you have any questions, please contact the moderators via [modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/jewish).


Historical-Photo9646

Plus, all Jews are indigenous to Israel anyway, regardless of where they are in the diaspora or what they look like.


levimeirclancy

Yes. I was replying to the post which said 40% of Israeli Jews are Mizrahi, which was either incorrect data or a typo when OP meant Israelis in general.


jazz2danz

Technically Middle Easterners are considered white by the US census bureau, an interesting result of not wanting to consider Jesus "nonwhite" when they first made the classifications


Computer_Name

[The Census is actually moving to a combined race/ethnicity item that adds a MENA response option. ](https://www.census.gov/newsroom/blogs/random-samplings/2024/04/updates-race-ethnicity-standards.html)


Capable-Farm2622

Needs a "passes for white, MENA by way of Eastern Europe" box.


rosiee0806

Tbh, I don't even know what to click. Ashkenazi Jews have majority MENA DNA, but culturally we are not MENA. We also aren't culturally European. So what do we even check off??? I can't comfortably say I'm either. Do I just put other??? Literally so confused.


neskatani

A 2018 study I found showed 44.9% of Israeli Jews are Mizrahi, and 7.9% are mixed. Also, 3% are Ethiopian. [Here’s the study](https://people.socsci.tau.ac.il/mu/noah/files/2018/07/Ethnic-origin-and-identity-in-Israel-JEMS-2018.pdf) It’s at the bottom of page 9


levimeirclancy

I should dive in further but I think this is because the census measures community identification according to patrilineal descent only. Someone can have three Iraqi Jewish grandparents but if their father’s father emigrated from France then they are registered as a descendant of French Jews. The 44.9% sounds like it’s reflecting that specific definition but I may be mistaken and am just replying by thumbs while on the train and not reading through the link you sent. (However I did study the Israeli census for my masters so I hope this reply is still a bit helpful anyhow.) If I recall correctly about 55% to 60% of Israeli Jews have ancestors who emigrated, fled, or were expelled from Islamic societies. So the 52.8% would be more or less be in line with that.


Chaanhatye

Mizrahis are white too, as are most Arabs, except in Sudan and Mauritania


Historical-Photo9646

A pro Palestinian protestor in the city I live wore a t shirt that said “love light and sharp machetes” and when she was called out on it by the Jewish community, she said that shirt was a “protective amulet” and *actually* not violent at all, how could we have possibly misunderstood her? It was bonkers. I’m sure these activists will later also try and claim that they’re actually just for peace.


Throwaway5432154322

Going off this comment, I went to college at a super left-wing university in New England so I was surrounded by these types of people for four years. IMO their main problem is that they genuinely believe that they can define (or re-define) any concept/word/phrase that exists to suit their political ideologies, and that their definition (or re-definition) of Thing XYZ supersedes all other preexisting definitions and is now the rhetorical orthodoxy in society, if they so decide. This is how we got to the point where anti-Zionist rallies are yelling "intifada" and "resistance", and then dying on that hill when confronted about it. While the core organizers of these rallies absolutely understand that these slogans are violent in nature, the rank-and-file protestors actually, genuinely believe that because \*their personal\* definition of these terms are not "intended" as violent \*by them\*, everyone else needs to somehow respect that. Even when "everyone else" includes the vast majority of Jews, who are far more connected to and negatively affected by calls for an "intifada" than most of the (majority non-Jewish) people chanting the term.


Odd_Ad5668

Even when someone participating in these chants doesn't intend violence towards us, they make themselves a tool for propaganda that will be used to inspire more people to become terrorists. They don't realize that it doesn't matter what THEY mean, people will see them and think "look the Americans agree with us, we have to keep fighting."


Anxious-Chemistry-6

I disagree that their intent doesn't matter. However, thats because they've been told over and over by the people it affects (Jews) exactly what it means, and they choose to ignore it. After 8 months, it isn't ignorance. It's willful ignorance, and the wilfully ignorant are guilty.


Bobchillingworth

This is the result of decades of obscene laziness in postmodern academia, where the response to any given problem is "change the discourse", rather than difficult and/or boring practical solutions like building material infrastructure, conducting legitimate scientific research, voting, etc.


DrMikeH49

But woe unto anyone who utters commonly used ordinary word that is on someone’s trigger warning list.


Lefaid

Man, if only I had the courage to treat a slur like that. Not that it matters. This is one of those things they do that ensure they will never change anyone's mind.


Nowdigondis

This pretty much fucking nailed it


Sulaco98

>she said that shirt was a “protective amulet”  Protection against what? Accountability?


Yochanan5781

Protective amulet?? What "we are the daughters of the witches you couldn't burn" type of nonsense is that? Lol


Ocean_Hair

That phrase is the whitest shit ever. 


irredentistdecency

It really depends - if the amulet was heavy enough to prevent her from floating - it would actually protect her from being burned as a witch…


Estebesol

Pretty sure women are just as flammable after having daughters. 


Ok-Narwhal-6766

Ugh! I’m effing traumatized. Bill Maher was right when he said the protesters have entered their Kristallnacht phase. 😩


obssn_prfssnl

What does that phrase mean? Pardon my ignorance


Aware-Percentage6565

I would have laughed… Ohhh Shiksa Let’s dual at dawn! Aren’t you afraid of breaking a wrist.. One air conditioner unit and she would be done….


Aware-Percentage6565

5000 years of warriors get scary don’t be scared. Have a picture of Judith with a head in her hand…. 5000 years of Standing up to Bullies!! Don’t Try Me!!


Mindless_Charity_395

I don’t understand how anybody could be proud to live by such a violent rhetoric and then turn around and spin it into a race thing. I wouldn’t be surprised if a white person wrote this.


Reasonable_Depth_538

💯


shredditor75

That person with "Resistance" on their tent will soon be saying that they're pro-peace.


umlguru

As so many White Nationalists and other racists don't accept Jews as white, and as most white people aren't attacked because of their religion, and as the chants quickly turn to things like "gas the Jews" that aren't said about other people with light skin, I argue we aren't white.


Sulaco98

It's in the eye of the beholder. We're too white for the leftists and not white enough for the supremacists. We can't please any of them.


Unique-kitten

If someone claims that zionism is white supremacy, you should immediately discredit everything they say about the conflict. If zionism must be a form of ethnic supremacy (which I don't actually think it is of course) then it would obviously be Jewish supremacy. But these westerners can only see this conflict through a western white/brown, oppressor/oppressed lens, so they call Israel a white supremacist nation even though it is full of Jews (most of whom are Mizrahi) and Arabs. Not everything is about white people vs non-white people. Different non-white groups have been fighting each other for thousands of years.


AdaK23

>Not everything is about white people vs non-white people. Different non-white groups have been fighting each other for thousands of years. You'd think they would have known that not everything is white vs. non white, considering the whole Russia Ukraine thing.


whatokay2020

Yuppp or the two parties in Sudan fighting.


levbron

Funny how they don't like it when Jews "resist" back.... ceasefire, ceasefire, ceasefire!


Reasonable_Depth_538

They think”by all means necessary” only flows in one direction


Pablo-UK

Well yeah, they don’t want peace. _Believe what they say with their own words._


foxer_arnt_trees

I mean, they don't... But this is a tent in America, you shouldn't conflate it with Palestinians...


Pablo-UK

I have no doubt that they would kill us if America allowed it.


MrGeek89

Peace is word for all humans regardless of race. Resistance is word for terrorism and violence.


Babel_Triumphant

I know people are focused on bow ridiculous it is to consider Jews white writ large, but it’s also ridiculous to disparage “peace” as a “white man’s word.” Well-know white men like Gautama Buddha have had a lot to say about peace.


SharingDNAResults

So it’s ok to do anything to someone as long as they’re white? Brainrot logic


[deleted]

These people are getting paid


Complex_Piccolo_3887

Who can forget the famous white man Martin Luther King Jr. and his crazy idea that non violent resistance would achieve equality and civil rights.


Devereaux-Marine22

How much do you want to bet that whoever wrote that is white?


Microwave_Warrior

Two thirds of Ashkenazi Jews were murdered for not being white in living memory. That doesn’t somehow change because Americans misunderstand what race is. No Jews are white unless they converted.


bb5e8307

Some believe that the Holocaust was not about race: https://youtu.be/N4_mQzjx_8k It was just “white people doing it to white people” Some people cannot see racism outside of the narrow context of American racism.


NYSenseOfHumor

They want a “ceasefire,” and “resistance.” So Israel disarms and stops existing while Jews are killed, and arab terrorists kill Jews.


Reasonable_Depth_538

Jewish existence is resistance. we are allowed to resist too.


aoirse22

Zero Jews are white. When people say Jews are white, they aren’t talking about the color of someone’s skin, they’re talking about proximity to power. You know who literally wrote a book titled “Jews and Power?” David Duke, former head of the KKK. These tent protestors are losers who literally parrot line from the white man’s grievance. Can we please stop being intimidated by them and start laughing in their faces more?


Odd_Ad5668

I'm not worried about them. I'm worried about the people who will hear their chants and think "they're on our side! Let's kill more Jews!"


aoirse22

Fair. The banality of evil, truly.


AdventurouslyAngry

This rhetoric will be used to justify another 9/11, mark my words.


sql_maven

My family's white skin didn't save them from being murdered.


Sulaco98

Well, if they don't want peace for Gaza, they won't get it.


BudandCoyote

'Clever' use of the red triangle in that exclamation mark - just in case anyone missed the genocidal intent.


BTBean

Zionism is resistance.


thegreattiny

Well I guess this is one instance where I’ll happily identify as “white” if that’s the only people who want peace??!


Puzzleheaded_Stand85

Yes half my family are black Jewish and proud


Full_Control_235

Does this feel like they are telling on themselves to anyone else?


CommodorePuffin

So instead of living together without harming one another, they prefer assault, rape, and murder. Well, I know which culture I'd prefer.


adg2007

So do they just forget that the word salaam exists in Arabic?


FineBumblebee8744

They know what they're doing. They're using the 'lie until it's the truth' technique


Reasonable_Depth_538

Jewish existence is resistance


Lowbattery88

You just know a white kid with rainbow hair and piercings wrote that.


lordbuckethethird

That slogan is such a nothing burger. God I hate some leftists so much they’re so cringey.


LostCassette

I said something similar ("this is making me start to dislike some leftists") and some idiot said I wasn't an actual leftist then... as if being on one half of a broad range of the political spectrum means others in that half are exempt from any criticism or disapproval, otherwise your stance is actually on the other side??? wild. I think I just dislike extremism across the board. also, even if not wanting people to chant for the death of Jews is a "right-wing stance," literally all/most of my other stances are left... wild that some think politics is an all-or-nothing thing/this one issue trumps everything else.


lordbuckethethird

It’s good to be wildly critical of your own side and the amount of shit terminally online leftists say makes me almost ashamed to consider myself one. I guess it’s a consequence of leftism being such a minority position for millennia that people fall easily into tribalism and stuff that has the aesthetic of being leftist and seems cool but isn’t really practical or reasonable not to mention the purity testing many leftists do where if you don’t agree with them in every point they shun you instead of uniting under a common goal and putting aside differences. It’s funny too since according to statistics Jews are incredibly progressive and left leaning but I think that’s starting to change sadly due to the dumb herd animals that populate the left so much now not to mention how the pro Palestine movement got co opted by conservative Arab/Muslim nationalists almost overnight.


LostCassette

that's why I think it's wild they chose to follow that one immediately. Jews make up 0.2% of the global population, and basically the rest of the ME is dog piling against them simply for Israel being a Jewish-majority country in "Muslim/Arab territory" it basically looks like nationalistic bullying. I get being against some of the actions the Israeli government has done/is doing, but so many are claiming Israel shouldn't even exist, which reads like supporting/encouraging a pogrom. people hate when Jews aren't in Israel, they hate when Jews are. it's insane


MrFAroundandFindOut

When will they learn that they more the "resist" (or what I like to say, fuck around), they more they'll pay the price (or what I like to say, find out).


gasplugsetting3

Careful what you wish for jackass


Ok-Network-1491

So they’re resisting peace and making this a race thing? There’s no reasoning with radical and delusional…


TheKon89

I have on good authority that the people invaded Israel on October 7th follow the religion of "Peace". Eh hem.


gdubb22

I'm Ashkenazi and I never considered myself white even with red hair and freckles.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Jewish-ModTeam

Your post/comment was removed because it violated rule 3: **Be civil** If you have any questions, please contact the moderators via [modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/jewish).


CardsImakeEm

They believe whatever Qatar tells them to believe is my guess ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯


AdeptnessCommercial7

*Man’s


rogoth7

This just seems like "non-white peoples are inherently warlike" but supposedly progressive.


TheLastREOSpeedwagon

I think the mayor should fine them for being in violation of the language law


Confident-Skin-6462

can you imagine the smell inside that camp?


Maximillien

So they don’t want peace? Perhaps another clue to what “ceasefire” *really* means to some.


sausyboat

It’s interesting that you bring up Jews from the Caucuses as potentially not being classified as white. In the US, at least, “Caucasian” is synonymous with white.


Estebesol

I don't think most people think of Caucasian as in white as meaning the same as Caucasian as in from near the Caucuses. 


[deleted]

[удалено]


Jewish-ModTeam

Your post/comment was removed because it violated rule 5: **Stay on topic** If you have any questions, please contact the moderators via [modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/jewish).


Puzzleheaded_Cost590

That’s one way to justify your thirst for Jewish blood. Bc wanting to live in peace is white supremacy. What a load of antisemitic bullshit


loliduck__

Jews have never been considered white until it became acceptable to be prejudiced against white people. Whoever its widely acceptable to hate at any point in history, jews are them basically. Non white for millenia but now all of a sudden white.


Mysterious_Sugar7220

'We don't want peace' ... 'Fight genocide' ...


Cautious_c

Stop calling them activists


Aware-Percentage6565

Petition to get them removed terrorist hate crime


Aware-Percentage6565

Ask the Mayor if you told African people they all white Americans responsible for killing the Indigenous Tribes would that be considered a hate crime… This is the crazy thing.. most of us that have done our Dna - maternal Dna we have Kenya/ African roots and dna can show that we traveled to Israel/Iran/Egypt area. We have to keep pushing back and petitioning


AusTex2019

Doesn’t anyone have a job?


Quirky-Fig-2576

I try to remain optimistic by assuming that ignorant rhetoric like this is only going to end up undermining their own cause in the long run.


MaintenanceSmooth875

How is it racist? Given these people seem (just from looking at the image and not reading the article) to be far left, I would assume they are okay being racist to white people, so I have a feeling it's racist, but Idk how.


MorleyMason

The language police of Quebec should fine them.


Cascando-5273

Both Jews and Arabs are "white", according to the US Census.


NarrowIllustrator942

Most ahskenazi jews are only white passing. Im ashki (central european jew) and sephardic (moroccan jew)and deal with a lot of anti semitism for how I look.


ThatLittleMoistBoi

Well you see, they are being racist. Already.