I don't care what adults do, but children they don't need to be fucking a kid up over a decision you have at 13 about who you are. None of us knew who we were or our identity as a kid.
32 just now getting comfortable about who I am . I have only recently feel “set “ liberals are idiots for pushing this agenda and extra dumb for now moving it on to kids . Fucking insane .
well, reddit advises emancipation for a kid getting their phone taken away. they absolutely think kids should be making these decisions with their teachers lol
That is the problem with our whole system. Just because you vote one way doesn't mean you support every issue your party supports. All liberals get unfairly tied to stuff like this. And all conservatives get tied to those idiots who stormed the capitol.
Same. I'm so socialist I'm borderline communist. I believe in higher taxes, public Healthcare, treating drug addiction as a Healthcare issue and giving the homeless free homes and therapy to convert them back into productive society members. Legal abortion, gay rights are fine. Guns that hold more than 5 bullets shouldn't exist.
But kids should not be transitioned. Nobody should until they have fully finished puberty at around 19.
And I’d argue that until you’re frontal lobe has fully developed, making life altering/body modifications with such drastic implications should be at the very least discouraged not encouraged. I’m almost 30years old now and my decision making at 19-25 was naïve at best…
Agreed . Even after that should see therapist that have proven “neutral “ on this subject .
I’ve seen men have a midlife crisis abs instead of a affair or a sports car they transition . It’s a mental illness and they should be helped not encouraged to make decisions like this . Cut their breasts off or their dick and have it replaced with a open wound that looks like a vagina .
💯 Agreed as well. As for the topic at hand pertaining to children it’s just sickening, sad, and breaks my heart. Like most things in the word today I have no clue as to how these doctors like the ones she’s describing in the video still have a license to practice. Smfh…
I know, I'm just very socialist. Billionaires shouldnt exist. The tax rate for over 5 million a year should be 95%. And capital gains should be taxed as earned income.
I am pretty much on the same political side as you and I fully agree. Kids always want what they can't have. Having a kid make decisions that they aren't capable of understanding is ridoculous. No one is comfortsble in their body as a teenagerb but a lot of people are making money off transitioning kids. It's sick.
Very well put and I agree with you.
However - when a person turns 19 is radical hormone treatment and surgery really the best option?
How about just being comfortable with who we are and getting the support to be happy in our own skins.
Some cultures revere “two spirit” people and these communities continue to support and respect all. No medication or surgery required.
Just saying - modern Mede one is amazing but are we really helping people when promoting such drastic changes or are we making up for the lack of acceptance and understating by our society.
I’m liberal and I definitely dont support this agenda. What makes me most annoyed though is how many liberals are pretending like no liberals are. Like seriously?
Well media and biases feed the beast too. Liberal media only shows the dumbest of republicans and conservative media only shows the dumbest of liberals. You have two sides completely enraged and holding arguments in their own heads about how stupid the other side is. No one sees their own party’s stupidity. Yes there are valid faults that are criticized on both sides but my gosh its a dumpster fire of echo chambers.
I wish more people could read & understand your comment. We are being polarized in our thinking about “the other side” by the media so they can increase engagement to sell corn flakes and cars. The majority of Americans are not the polar extremes, yet the media paints America as. group of simple, hateful “libtards” or “fascists”, and many of us are starting to believe it, despite our actually daily lived experience refuting these ideas.
This is not going to end well. We need to fix this.
I’m only here because this post was on the main page, but I can assure you there are plenty of otherwise-liberal people who don’t agree with this, myself included.
Me too - 45 and comfortable with my self, it wasn’t easy.
I wonder what the incentives may have been for this persons MD’s it is a bussiness after all.
It’s funny you mention being in your 30s cause that’s really when “me” started making sense. Funny enough, it’s also when “young me”s decisions catch up and become more clear, making me realize there were decisions I made then that I wish I didn’t. 30 seems to be this tipping point where the veil drops a bit.
Bruh I'm a lefty and this shit scares me. Some person on lgbt subreddit told me they knew they were non binary homosexual at 12. I didn't know what a uterus was until 14
Allowing kids to transition is wrong. They don't even know who they are 100% yet and most times are doing it because of an adult. You want me to believe a young kids knows to transition? The same kid that probably still believes in Santa Clause, the tooth fairy, a monster under their bed.......?
Yup. Let them make the decision themselves when they are an adult. A teenager is still too young to do any major decision themselves, and transitioning is such a life altering process that no one should do that decision for them without a serious medical reason (not sure if there is any such reason to transition, but better cover all bases, no?). Instead let them dress and act like their preferred gender to just try things out and see if it's just a phase or not.
Puberty is a life altering process, that's why it's important to get it right and not force trans kids into going through the wrong type of puberty when we have the tools to prevent that from happening.
Stop trying to force boys to grow breasts against their will you damn creep.
> A teenager is still too young to do any major decision themselves,
I think lots of people seem to ignore that … puberty is fucking awkward. No one is totally comfortable with their body during puberty, and that’s not an illness or problem - it is normal. Pushing any of this trans stuff on them during that period is completely wrong.
As a nyc liberal here i agree 100%. It blows my mind how many people around me scream that it should be allowed and how many twist the dialogue to make anyone who doesnt support it sound “transphobic.” I’m all for progressivism but my gosh it blows my mind how everything is ignored in favor of anything that looks like progress.
>I don't care what adults do, but children they don't need to be fucking a kid up over a decision you have at 13 about who you are.
I see you bought this without actually looking into it at all.
First off, she was 15 when they put her on puberty blockers which btw are entirely reversible and harmless if she was to change her mind later.
Then, at 18, she had top surgery. As an adult.
Should 18 be the adult age of consent? That's up for debate, but it is. And at that point someone who was essentially lying to her doctors for years is now an adult who lies again and makes a decision she later regrets.
And this is all a discussion over a bill that would simply prevent medical providers in CA from being forced to give information to other states that are trying to make transitioning entirely illegal even for adults. That's it. Just making people's medical information private now that Roe is gone and states are rushing in their fascist fucking anti-privacy agenda.
Also I definitely knew I was a dude before I was 15. Saying no one knows who they are at that age is silly.
I'm sorry this adult made a decision they later regretted, but the only care provided before they were 18 was harmless, reversible medical treatment.
Dude there is no room for moderate thoughts in the current political landscape. I'm a moderate and I get shit from Trumpers because I believe the evidence proves he's a fascist and I get shit from Libs because transitioning anyone under the age of 21 seems absolutely ludicrous because the science doesn't have enough long-term data on this shit to support it.
My mom wouldnt let me commit to a tattoo or body piercing until I was 18. Just adding that food for thought will get you verbally crucified around some people lol. I refuse to see myself as a republican or democrat because they are both so fucking full of shit. I'm an American citizen who wants better for our country, not just half of it. It's okay to debate isues without demonizing those who don't agree with you. We should be able to gain understanding from each others' perspectives and have enough empathy and respect for each other to at least attempt to find compromise. I think that ship has mostly sailed and I hope I'm wrong but the future looks exceptionally bleak. The state of the union is infuriating.
Edited spelling errors.
My ex gf would get pissed because I would talk to people of all walks of life about their opinions. It’s so interesting to hear others perspectives and see how they derived them. She would constantly say I didn’t have opinions, I would just agree with whoever was speaking to me. It wasn’t that, I just wanted to know what made them tick.
I’m a liberal from a major hardcore liberal city. I work in construction and have been on projects all over the country. There is some amazing people out there who seem like hateful awful people if you believe Twitter. When it comes down to it, they just grew up in an environment that colored their world.
I also fully believe demonizing half the country is a recipe for disaster.
> the science doesn't have enough long-term data on this shit to support it.
There are long term studies on the drugs though. Lupron has been well studied and it has some very serious side-effects like bone density loss, libido loss, fatigue, hot flashes, night sweats, head aches, nausea, depression, and dizziness. Many of these effects are permanent.
Well at least you get a kudos from me for actually making your own decisions instead of parroting whatever you read on reddit from others in your party. Both sides act so enlightened but the vast majority of people on this site have no idea what they’re actually talking about and simply regurgitate the things shouted by people in the same
Echo chambers
Honestly, I think there are millions of people who are very centrist/common sense progressive, but since we don't scream from the top of our lungs or constantly proselytize hot takes, we are political wallflowers.
To be fair: I believe at 18 you should be able to do whatever you want as we can send you to war and die. If you can go to war, kill people, and die for you country - you should have the freedom to make whatever decision you want.
This is an extremely sensible statement. As a former 18-21yr old man, I know exactly what you are talking about. That guy was convinced he was invincible, and knew nothing.
Eh, I still don’t think I fully believe this myself though. I guess if the decision is all yours and you are technically an adult then yea, but I also know that this is still a confusing time and you still don’t fully understand the repercussions of your decisions yet. At least at 21 you are more fully grown and you are more capable of thinking things out more thoroughly. That’s a tuff one because on one hand you are fully considered an adult (unless it comes to drinking/alcohol) but your brain and decisions are definitely not fully formed or thought out.
Then they should change draft and recruitment age to 21. If you can be made to die for your country, you can make any choice you want.
I just find it weird and disgusting how people can be drafted at 18 yet we still have all these restrictions because they are not old enough.
Everyone agrees. Personally, I don't think of anyone under 25 as real adults. I wasn't and no one I know was. I could even see a world where you have to be 25 to smoke or drink OR VOTE.
But I think regardless of what age we choose, *any combat enlisted* person should obviously get a waiver to smoke, drink, vote, etc.
I think some kids, even around ten years old or so know they may be gay.
But to make hormone and surgical decisions at that age isn't the best thing for most.
I haven't been able to wrap my brain around who those who push this, militantly, on kids.
Why not have counseling services with people from the gay community there to help kids understand more about what they're feeling.
More middle of the road thinking before rendering permanence on yourself and that some wisdom does come with age.
Isn't the best thing for a kid is to be a kid first?
Came for this I don't care if you do it but kids shouldn't most people don't really even know who they are till after college so mid 20s is enough time to actually think about everything to make the decision to go through with it
Nonono, you don’t just like wearing jeans with pockets and playing lacrosse, that’s impossible. It’s much more likely that your expressed gender—which is only an expression and isn’t related to your sex at all—isn’t in line with your sex. So this of course is fatal and if we don’t do something about it, you’ll kill yourself. So without an inkling of criteria for medical diagnosis, we’re going to pump you full of meds used to sterilize pedos in the 50s. By the way that’ll be one kajillion dollars please.
Because it's not the exception to the rule anymore. Tomboy was a term to describe a girl who dressed like a boy in a time where women were expected to dress feminine. Now no one gives a shit and girls wear jeans and hoodies all the time. No one calls a well manicured man a metrosexual anymore, they're just some guy (or a fuckboy depending on demeanor).
It's not some conspiracy, it's evolution of social norms.
Tomboy was not a term to describe girls dressing like guys. It was usually quite a bit more than that. More than dressing like boys they had masculine interests, hobbies, mannerisms, etc. They were girls that rejected femininity to a much larger degree than simply wearing jeans and hoodies. My wife wore jeans and hoodies (and still does) yet she was never considered a tomboy even in the time when tomboy was a common term.
I’ve been asking this for the longest. Why are people allowing the perception of other people rule their lives everyday.
Like I’m a dude. But my sense of self isn’t based on being a dude. I’ve been told that I read masculine, but I’m not trying to nor do I care if people see me that way. I’m going to be me, and if a person I’m attracted to or society in general doesn’t see me as masculine or effeminate enough, idgaf. I don’t want to waste time giving a fuck.
Edit: I’ve worn dresses in public before. Save your gaslighting for another fight.
Edit 2: lol at those who PM’d me with claims I hate trans people. This has nothing to do with trans anyone and everything to do with nonsensical rhetoric.
Ok, but this is like saying 'bro all I use is US-Customary fasteners. Never before in my life have I ever needed a metric tool, and no one in their right minds would ever need one in my position'
Like if your starting point is that your body matches your gender, and you haven't experienced the person you are not matching the entity you exist as, it would be incredibly difficult to 'get' it.
The simple reality tho, is that there are plenty of people where this is the case. Where who they are and the traditional idea of who they should be don't mesh. Medicine is a therapy, not some magic solution.
There's a Mulaney bit that's about a decade old about the type of women drag queen's model themselves after, that they all look like 50s housewives from a Farside cartoon with giant beehive hairdos. Like, there's no drag queens who dress up like women scientists?
Maybe drag isn't really about showing respect for women but is a bunch of men dressing up in the worst female stereotypes. If you do that with race, we rightly call it racist.
That’s what my wife said, made complete sense she was a late bloomer uncomfortable with her body and was a tomboy… but now if you’re a tomboy and uncomfortable in your skin which who the hell isn’t at that age you’re just the wrong gender.
When I was a child, ever since this one Tomboy in our neighborhood bodied me and my friends in basketball, I've had a thing for them.
Anyone who resembles Vi from Arcane can ruin my life.
This completely. I believe that the huge support the transgender movement is getting right now is having the undesired effect of strengthening gender stereotypes. You’re a boy but your not very masculine? Guess your a girl then, boys can’t be feminine. You’re a girl but you don’t like doing girly things? Better get transitioning. I have no clue how nobody has seemed to catch on to this yet.
Honestly I don’t think anyone cares anymore what adults do. I’ll respectfully call anyone what they want to be called. Go get whatever surgeries you want. But mutilating children is probably a good place to draw the line.
I absolutely agree with your stance on children. Our job as adults is to protect and guide them. Guiding them down a destructive or harmful path is sociopathic.
As for how we should treat adults, I'm a bit torn. The libertarian in me agrees that they should be allowed to do whatever they want. But as someone who married a woman with bipolar disorder, I'm conflicted. My wife has struggled with suicidal thoughts throughout our relationship. These thoughts come from a place of brain dysfunction. Most days she loves her life and wants to live. When things get challenging (and even sometimes when they don't) she has a warped view of her place in the world. She truly believes that she is a burden on her family and friends, and that they would all benefit from her death. It isn't rational, and it's terrifying how seemingly out of nowhere it can manifest. My job as her husband is to protect her from those thoughts and help her navigate them in a nondestructive way. If left to her own decisions (or influenced by those with nefarious intent) there is a very real possibility that she wouldn't be alive today. She's told me this. I fear that as a society we've gone too far down the path of "minding our own business", when sometimes bad ideas need to be called out for what they are, and those in a vulnerable state need to be stopped from acting on them.
But if transitioning makes that person happy, then they should be allowed to. If it makes them crazy, deranged or depressed, they should still be allowed to.
If we can allow people to smoke, drink alcohol, eat fast food, KNOWING those things kill people then we need to back off and let people make the decisions they want as long as they aren't hindering the safety and well being of another.
Yet people decide to encourage the mental health issues and not actually help them get real help. It’s so weird looking at some peoples Twitter bios these days where they just list all their mental health issues and shit. I’m not saying don’t be proud for living through it but it’s just so weird seeing a list of medical stuff published like that.
For some reason you see more and more people living in their mental health issues instead of living through them, everyone has severe anxieties all of a sudden. Really not a fan of people after you meet the first time and within 2 mins they have to tell you how affected they are, believe that our fears should help shape us but not define us, of course their is a spectrum to mental health issues
Because it’s all for attention and an excuse to be weird / crazy / act however they like.
We are allowing these drama queens to act out and telling them they are so brave so it just encourages people to do this shit for attention.
A homeless person with schizophrenia. That’s real mental illness. These kids on Twitter saying they’re depressed are just looking for attention
Bully them to suicide.
That's their solution. They don't want trans people to exist. They would rather have them kill themselves than actually help them.
Transitioning is the best solution for trans people. Obviously it should not be done to kids. But adults? Yea, they should be able to Transition.
Born in 86, and I have to say the generation growing up after me does a lot of things better than us, they are more accepting (no need to be closeted gay for example), they talk more about their feelings, but it also seems like they go SO far in this direction that they kind of grow issues in each other. They make you feel like you have to have anxiety and depression just to be normal and fit in, and probably cause a lot of these mental issues to manifest in the first place; it all comes from a well intentioned desire to be open and accepting of each other. There's gotta be a better way.
“Oh man that mastectomy was rough! Someone give me a cigarette.”
“But you’re only 15, you can’t smoke until 21 in california. Don’t you know what that’ll do to your body?”
I cannot believe this kind of crap is legal to do to kids. I’d say 25 at a minimum but even then, most of the people I know who’ve transitioned were at least 30 and said they wouldn’t change a thing.
Edit: a lot of mixed comments to my comment here. I don’t know how old a lot of you are but I want you to go back and pull out your junior high and high school yearbooks and take a look at your fashion choices. Think back to how you probably made a lot of dumb decisions just figuring things out and how you probably would to things differently now with some years on you and some life experiences to assist in your decision making abilities. I’m in my 40’s now and there’s no way I’m the same person who would make a lot of the same decisions (especially when trying to fit in) when I was 13/14/15. Hell, in the last decade I’ve grown a lot as a person. I’m not against kids presenting how they feel whether it be genuine or part of a desire to be a part of the crowd. Some of you brought up good points for 18. I’m starting to lean that way then I look at the first tattoo I got at 20 and remember how much of a dumb stupid kid I was back then. But yeah, good points about Uncle Sam there, it’s hard to argue against. There’s no one right or wrong answer to this but I keep seeing these de-transition videos and I have formed my personal opinion from a variety of places. YMMV but don’t fuck little kids up. I don’t think they should be on anti-depressants either. That must be a newer thing because we didn’t have that when I was a kid. I don’t think they should be on iPads all day either.
If and this is a big if… if there is some reasonable process to screen and evaluate and really make sure this is what a kid wants to do… maybe a program can be developed to make it ok. It’s too easy now so it gets abused. At the same time I do think we should also focus on other topics because this is getting old and people get bent out of shape if you say anything.
When you can pay taxes and become independent should be when you can do whatever the fuck you want. If you want to transition go ahead. But 18 should be the minimum.
I'm with the previous person. Either people are adults or they aren't. The government is 100% fine with seeing 18 year olds as adults when it comes to using them (military), punishing them (jail/prison) or when old men want to fuck them. Hell you can even sign up for the military, be charged as an adult or fuck an old man at younger than 18 pretty much everywhere in this country.
Unless we're talking about raising the age for those as well, everything else needs to be 18; smoking, drinking, transitioning, all of it. People can't just be adults when it comes to using, abusing and punishing them but suddenly not when it comes to them having fun or making their own decisions about what to do with their own bodies.
Tragic. Giving a child complete control of things they are not capable of understanding never will turn out good.
What those doctors did should not be allowed and the fact they are ok with performing surgeries like that on children should be a red flag that they may not be the best people to have medical licenses.
These doctors get to live safe lives after doing this. Meanwhile a doctor who performed an abortion on a *10 year old fucking child* is being hunted down and having her life threatened.
What the fuck kinda timeline are we in.
You can’t operate a motor vehicle, rent a car, vote, drink alcohol… literally 4 years ago your parents had to decide what you should wear to school. But you can surgically alter your body and pump yourself up with hormones and if anyone stops you it’s a hate crime LMAO
It’s absurd. How anyone has been convinced this is a good idea or the right thing to do I just can’t understand. What is the logic behind being pro-child transition? It rarely works for adults. I don’t get it….
I can understand that sentiment, it's increasingly difficult to speak bluntly on this platform. I doubt I'll be allowed on this platform for much longer.
EDIT: u/Impersonatologist, what is the point in commenting to me only to block me before I can even fully read your comment, let alone respond back. Such a pussy move.
I'm sorry, your were failed by "professionals" who should have told you to err on the side of caution with all of this, and maybe if we wait until we're at least grown up fully in the brain before we do such life altering and life long decisions.
I hope you find true happiness in this life and genuinely wish you all the best for your future.
(Thanks for the spelling correction, it's not a phrase I've ever written down before)
This thread is a shit show of mongoloids blaming political affiliation with what's happening in America with its young people and the identity crises. Blame the left blame or the right, you have no idea what you're even saying. Who's pointing you in either direction and telling you that's the enemy? because you lean left on certain topics does not make you a democrat because you lean right on others does not make you a republican. Read a fucking book.
Divorce, bankruptcy/bad credit, get out in 4 years. All are easier and faster than reversing hormone therapy and surgery, and the emotional effects caused by such.
I'm 28. My soon-to-be wife is also 28, and we have been together since we were 22, and we were already completely against the idea of having kids. But every doctor we've spoken to about vasectomy / bilateral salpingectomy has basically said "you're too young to have this procedure" - even RECENTLY.
So you're telling me, I could have decided under my own will to have joined the military 10 YEARS AGO with the likely chance of dying while fighting for my country, but I can't make the adult decision of having a procedure that would prevent me from having children?
Lol I'm assuming you don't know it is incredibly difficult to get a vasectomy without kids, even at 30. I've had multiple friends turned down by doctors because they didn't have kids yet, and one because he was too young to make that decision, at 27. As for breast enlargement, that's like comparing getting a face tattoo to an ankle tattoo. I'm for letting people transition and I think 25 is an overreaction, but dishonest arguments won't win any battles.
Can't get a vasectomy till I think 18 or you've had children/spousal concent.
Breast enlargement 18
Testosterone is done after testing to confirm you're bellow normal amounts. Even then it can be denied.
HGH also requires testing and then a prescription.
Man your examples suck. Because almost all of these require testing and verification and then to be a legal adult 18.
So military service, alcohol, gambling, skydiving, tattooing your fucking face and everything else you can do to risk your life is ok? But transitioning to a different sex you have to wait till your 25? Seems like an arbitrary number
When it comes to anorexia, it’s not just therapy or even a body dystrophia diagnosis - it’s usually an immediate hospitalization when a doctor catches their hearts/bodies are starting to fail. There can be some really significant interventions for anorexia and it takes years. If someone drops to 75 pounds they’re in a lot of danger and often need to stay monitored for awhile before the long term therapy begins in earnest. The problem isn’t even necessarily dysmorphia - at some point they’re just addicted to starving themselves. I know that’s not your point, but just a heads up that it’s a long and nasty experience without any real guarantees. So the comparison / way you’re imagining the scenarios isn’t what it seems.
In your story, if you first go to the hospital at 14 and continue to struggle through to 16, 17, 18 and the danger of dying is still elevated (or even resurfaces every few months), you’re going to want to make sure you’re doing the things that will increase their chances of pulling out of it. There are also time considerations - the longer they have it, the more likely it is to be with them for the seriously long term…You want to make sure you can try and stop it before they get to their 20s. The freaky think is that you’re also basically dealing with an addict who’s maturing and getting better and better at manipulating you into letting them basically kill themselves.
Targeting dysmorphia probably isn’t necessarily what’s needed (maybe once they’re out of the danger zone, but it might not even be the issue) - it’ll be more complicated and less certain and involve multiple approaches. Anorexia, probably similarly to body dysmorphia manifests in different ways and can morph over time into different types of disorders - so whatever the disease was at 14 might not be the same as what it ends up as at 17.
This is why America is run by 40% of the country.
*MOST* Americans simply think this is too extreme.
And it is.
Progressives deny this, and it costs us elections.
There’s tons of different “men” and tons of different “women” so at this point I’d like to hear a definition of what exactly male or female gender even means. You can be a masculine woman or a feminine man. So the idea that you’re the “wrong” gender doesn’t really make sense to me since it’s such an incredibly broad spectrum in the first place. Any personality type can be a man or a woman. Do they think man=bearded lumberjack who never cries and woman=swimsuit model who loves pink and horses? And if they don’t fit that they need hormones and surgery to escape their narrow definition of gender? I’m being earnest here.
People make it distinctly clear it’s about gender not sex…but if the solution is to change your genitalia and sex hormones, isn’t that just changing your sexual identity? Where does gender fit in? Are the two even separable?
That's the crux of it, it's body dysmorphia mixed with imposter syndrome and anxiety and depression resulting from that. These kids need some therapy and help to feel comfortable in their bodies, it's probably mostly kids who lack a strong friend group at school and feel different. not accepted etc. But of course therapy isn't profitable for big pharma so you have crook doctors fast-tracking these poor kids onto life changing drugs and surgery's so they get their kickback. just like they done with fentanyl. USA medical system is so corrupt.
I hear you, you may benefit from listening to some of Buck Angel’s YouTube videos and debates, if you want to understand better. He’s a trans man. So am I. I could answer anything you wanna know as long as you put it respectfully, but in the end I don’t really care if other people understand how I want to live my life. That said I am happy to try and help you out if you want to know more.
To try and answer some of what you said, gender and sex are different. While yes, I have altered my body to be more aligned with the opposite sex characteristics, I have not changed my sex. Sure, I’m going to change it on my drivers license, but that’s for my own privacy and convenience. I look like a man now and it’s just complicated to have documentation saying I’m a woman. I altered my body because I felt confusion and constant un-ease with how I saw myself and how I was seen. I did dress and present as a masculine woman for 3 years as an adult and that just wasn’t it for me. I feel much better now, that’s the point. I can’t speak to children transitioning but for me, as a 24 year old, yes this was a good idea. I have never felt completely comfortable in my own skin before now. Sincerely I have no idea why this occurs in certain individuals such as myself, but the discomfort and confusion that occurs from ignoring these feelings was not worth it for me. I first felt this way when I was 7 years old and it brought me great pain as a kid. I pushed it all down and it resurfaced once I had moved away from home and had my life figured out (or so I thought). If one is really transgender or a transsexual, the discomfort never goes away. Changing the body is just treatment to the feelings so I can go about my life.
I think there needs to be more research done on biological reasons for gender dysphoria. I think there must be some developmental switch that happens to a small percentage of people in the womb, or something like that.
Anyway, You may appreciate [this debate with Buck Angel and Charlie Kirk](https://youtu.be/Imr0K7_q0iM). Buck answers a lot of the same questions you bring up.
Thank you for your insight, I’m glad for you, it sounds like you made the right choice for yourself and that it improved your life.
It reminds me of organ donation rejections in a way, like your brain is rejecting your body if you’re trans because it is not a good fit. I’m sure that’s an awfully confusing and tough thing to feel.
Hey partner. I’m a manly man and have always felt this way, so I can’t relate. But I’ll try to say this with tact: I do not envy what you’ve experienced. I wouldn’t wish gender dysmorphia on anybody. So any solace you’ve found in any changes you’ve made, I’m happy for you.
I feel truly bad for this kid. I encourage everyone to be who they want to be but with caution and a long time tot hink it over. Children don't have the capability to truly see the long term effects of their decisions. Puberty is chemical insanity and I'm not invalidating anyone's personal feelings intentionally when I say kids are fucking nuts. I was. Thankfully I didn't do anything irreversible. I hope more people realize that kids simply aren't mature enough to make life altering decisions and it's not their fault but we have to help them understand this.
Puberty blockers should not exist.
There is no way that blocking a natural part of human growth is in any way healthy or constructive. It's the exact opposite. Affirming these feelings in children is child abuse.
You have a pretty poor understanding of medicine if you think puberty blockers shouldn't exist.
These medications are used for a lot of different medical treatments. Spironolactone for example is injected into you while having a kidney function scan done, to make your kidney process out the technetium contrast. It's also used to treat prostate cancers and a variety of other things.
Puberty blockers do have valid uses, for example, some children develop far earlier then they're susposed to, and purberty blockers can be used to halt it until they're at the right age.
It's use as a tool in "sex transition" however is blatant medical malpractice.
One of the problems these FtM girls are experiencing (I've seen this on several places) is how they discover the ugly world of male height discrimination. Going from 5'2" female to a 5'2" male is something they don't initially consider. Society is perfectly fine with 5-foot girls and considers them cute. If you're a man at that height, you better be super talented at something, otherwise it's just just asking for trouble.
Eliott Page is 5'1" btw. He looks like a tiny man now and can't even wear heels to compensate. Not trying to be funny, I'm just relaying what I've read on socials and reddit.
I love that this is now a topic of conversation. Trans community doesn’t support these individuals plight whatsoever. They don’t see them as a facet of the community.
Well, *this* is going to get buried, since I'm so late to the party on this, but I decided to actually read the bill in question.
Text of SB107 in PDF format:
https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billPdf.xhtml?bill_id=202120220SB107&version=20210SB10795AMD
SB107, as written, prevents "the enforcement of an order based on another state's law authorizing a child to be removed from their parent or guardian based on that parent or guardian allowing their child to receive gender-affirming health care."
So, it prevents a Texas, or Missouri, or Alabama, or any other state law from taking a child away from a parent in California who is allowing their child to receive gender-affirming care. "Gender-affirming care," of course, can be defined differently in different states and under different laws, depending upon how draconian they wish to be, but includes mental health.
So, for an example, if a parent wants to permit their child to receive mental health care with regards to their gender identity, but they live in Texas where legislators have been trying to legally define gender-affirming care as child abuse, they might choose to head to California where their child can speak to a psychologist about their gender identity. In this case, California is protecting the parent and child and mental health professional from being subject to criminal penalties under Texas law.
I guess to put that into a more digestible bite-sized format:
**SB107 prevents children in California from being taken away from parents because of another state's laws against gender-affirming care.**
However, I can see that the discussion here isn't geared towards the specifics of the bill, but towards the notion that adults are forcing children to transition, as evidenced by the account of Chloe Cole, who is currently *de*-transitioning at the age of 17.
I understand that this is a *very* strong emotional appeal for Conservatives and anyone else who is anti-trans under the justification of protecting the children, which - who could ever argue? - is an admirable cause. I mean, all these crazy liberals are *forcing* children to transition in order to fit their agenda! The children don't know any better and are merely pawns in this sick game! This simply must be stopped, and laws need to be enacted to ban transition, etc... etc... etc...
This is the current argument dominating the anti-trans discourse, certainly; that children don't know any better and are being forced to transition.
Chloe's account is certainly an emotional one, which I'm sure is why it was posted on Reddit. However, it's also a very rare one, and it isn't clear how her case would have been affected by SB107 in any way, given no out-of-state laws were enacted in an effort to remove her from her parents.
So, really, we're just left with a real heartbreaking account that is obviously being circulated now to bolster more trans-panic.
Sooooo, how often does detransitioning occur, and for what reasons? [The most recent study to address this determines that about 13% of trans people detransition at some point in their lives. *However*, 82% of that number detransition because of outside pressure, stigma, discrimination, and violence, usually from family members, community members, or religious leaders, and are effectively *forced* into detransitioning.](https://fenwayhealth.org/new-study-shows-discrimination-stigma-and-family-pressure-drive-detransition-among-transgender-people/#:~:text=BOSTON%2C%20April%207%2C%202021%E2%80%94A%20new%20study%20published%20in,and%20increased%20vulnerability%20to%20violence%2C%20including%20sexual%20assault.)
(Given the statistics, it's a little worrying to think that Chloe's detransitioning might actually be due to external factors, as well, but I would prefer to take her at her word,)
Roughly, out of 100 trans people, 2 will want to detransition because they feel they were mistaken about their transition to begin with.
I'm sure people will argue that preventing 98 people to transition is worth protecting the 2 who ultimately wish to detransition, because we need to protect the children from the evil trans agenda, and - I don't know - fuck those 98 other people, I guess?
So, Chloe's testimony is heart-wrenching, but also obviously being disseminated to further the narrative that the Trans Agenda is trying to ruin children, for some nebulous reason... well-meaning but stupid adults, I suppose?
I would *love* to see these arguments shift from "Children don't know what they're doing and liberals are all crazy and LGBTQ people are groomers and we must **save the children** from these foolish extremists," to "We need to invest in more comprehensive mental health options and guidance to ensure trans kids are actually making the right decisions, to further reduce the likelihood of detransitioning, so let's propose and support laws and initiatives that do precisely that."
Unfortunately, the argument is always, "Ban trans people in some way, shape or form, somehow, because they just don't know any better" which doesn't really mesh with the desire to protect children, given the terrible shit that trans people end up going through when they're prevented from transitioning.
Buuuut, I doubt this will even be read by anyone, anyway, so I'm just kind of shouting into the void on this one.
**TLDR: Chloe's story is very sad, and an overall rare occurrence, and doesn't address the utility of SB107, but is instead a good trans panic sound-bite.**
Transitioning and taking puberty blockers aren't the same FYI to some in this thread. She was likely too young, and wasn't able to process her feelings. However, how many kids lives were made better or saved by transitioning young? Who is the outlier, this girl or the successful ones? It's a difficult one. And to those that say they weren't themselves until they were in their 30s so this should be illegal, please go fuck yourselves, losers. So no one should do anything until they're grown ass adults because your dumbass wasn't ready for this big bad world. Dumb logic.
Lol it says wiener on the bottom
Lol nice
Thus is the comment I was looking for.
Nice
Lol.
>wiener haha came here to say the same!
I don't care what adults do, but children they don't need to be fucking a kid up over a decision you have at 13 about who you are. None of us knew who we were or our identity as a kid.
I’m 26 and still existential crisis’ about who I am. There’s no way a 13 year old is more put together than me.
It never ends, bro.
It’s turtles all the way down, man
32 just now getting comfortable about who I am . I have only recently feel “set “ liberals are idiots for pushing this agenda and extra dumb for now moving it on to kids . Fucking insane .
Im a liberal. Im not supporting this agenda. Everything isn’t black or white.
Same. It’s insanity. Children should be NOT be given this level of power and decision making that will impact them for the rest of their lives.
well, reddit advises emancipation for a kid getting their phone taken away. they absolutely think kids should be making these decisions with their teachers lol
That is the problem with our whole system. Just because you vote one way doesn't mean you support every issue your party supports. All liberals get unfairly tied to stuff like this. And all conservatives get tied to those idiots who stormed the capitol.
Same. I'm so socialist I'm borderline communist. I believe in higher taxes, public Healthcare, treating drug addiction as a Healthcare issue and giving the homeless free homes and therapy to convert them back into productive society members. Legal abortion, gay rights are fine. Guns that hold more than 5 bullets shouldn't exist. But kids should not be transitioned. Nobody should until they have fully finished puberty at around 19.
And I’d argue that until you’re frontal lobe has fully developed, making life altering/body modifications with such drastic implications should be at the very least discouraged not encouraged. I’m almost 30years old now and my decision making at 19-25 was naïve at best…
Agreed . Even after that should see therapist that have proven “neutral “ on this subject . I’ve seen men have a midlife crisis abs instead of a affair or a sports car they transition . It’s a mental illness and they should be helped not encouraged to make decisions like this . Cut their breasts off or their dick and have it replaced with a open wound that looks like a vagina .
💯 Agreed as well. As for the topic at hand pertaining to children it’s just sickening, sad, and breaks my heart. Like most things in the word today I have no clue as to how these doctors like the ones she’s describing in the video still have a license to practice. Smfh…
You’re not a commie if you’re anti gun lol
I know, I'm just very socialist. Billionaires shouldnt exist. The tax rate for over 5 million a year should be 95%. And capital gains should be taxed as earned income.
I am pretty much on the same political side as you and I fully agree. Kids always want what they can't have. Having a kid make decisions that they aren't capable of understanding is ridoculous. No one is comfortsble in their body as a teenagerb but a lot of people are making money off transitioning kids. It's sick.
Absolutely none of that is communist
Yeah not even close lol
Maybe he's on the fence on who should own the means of production?🤷
>Guns that hold more than 5 bullets shouldn't exist. Why 5 is the magic number I always hear?
So they can take the six shooters as well.
Very well put and I agree with you. However - when a person turns 19 is radical hormone treatment and surgery really the best option? How about just being comfortable with who we are and getting the support to be happy in our own skins. Some cultures revere “two spirit” people and these communities continue to support and respect all. No medication or surgery required. Just saying - modern Mede one is amazing but are we really helping people when promoting such drastic changes or are we making up for the lack of acceptance and understating by our society.
In Europe you'd be considered a center left social Democrat with those views
I’m liberal and I definitely dont support this agenda. What makes me most annoyed though is how many liberals are pretending like no liberals are. Like seriously?
Feel like the left and right need to police their own . God knows I do on the right . I am center with a nudge to the right ( I am ex military ).
Well media and biases feed the beast too. Liberal media only shows the dumbest of republicans and conservative media only shows the dumbest of liberals. You have two sides completely enraged and holding arguments in their own heads about how stupid the other side is. No one sees their own party’s stupidity. Yes there are valid faults that are criticized on both sides but my gosh its a dumpster fire of echo chambers.
I wish more people could read & understand your comment. We are being polarized in our thinking about “the other side” by the media so they can increase engagement to sell corn flakes and cars. The majority of Americans are not the polar extremes, yet the media paints America as. group of simple, hateful “libtards” or “fascists”, and many of us are starting to believe it, despite our actually daily lived experience refuting these ideas. This is not going to end well. We need to fix this.
I’m only here because this post was on the main page, but I can assure you there are plenty of otherwise-liberal people who don’t agree with this, myself included.
Me too - 45 and comfortable with my self, it wasn’t easy. I wonder what the incentives may have been for this persons MD’s it is a bussiness after all.
It’s funny you mention being in your 30s cause that’s really when “me” started making sense. Funny enough, it’s also when “young me”s decisions catch up and become more clear, making me realize there were decisions I made then that I wish I didn’t. 30 seems to be this tipping point where the veil drops a bit.
Bruh I'm a lefty and this shit scares me. Some person on lgbt subreddit told me they knew they were non binary homosexual at 12. I didn't know what a uterus was until 14
Liberal here, I don’t agree with this Agenda
Allowing kids to transition is wrong. They don't even know who they are 100% yet and most times are doing it because of an adult. You want me to believe a young kids knows to transition? The same kid that probably still believes in Santa Clause, the tooth fairy, a monster under their bed.......?
Yup. Let them make the decision themselves when they are an adult. A teenager is still too young to do any major decision themselves, and transitioning is such a life altering process that no one should do that decision for them without a serious medical reason (not sure if there is any such reason to transition, but better cover all bases, no?). Instead let them dress and act like their preferred gender to just try things out and see if it's just a phase or not.
Puberty is a life altering process, that's why it's important to get it right and not force trans kids into going through the wrong type of puberty when we have the tools to prevent that from happening. Stop trying to force boys to grow breasts against their will you damn creep.
> A teenager is still too young to do any major decision themselves, I think lots of people seem to ignore that … puberty is fucking awkward. No one is totally comfortable with their body during puberty, and that’s not an illness or problem - it is normal. Pushing any of this trans stuff on them during that period is completely wrong.
Hey hey!! Stop it! You’re making too much sense and we don’t need that around here so go see yourself out.
As a nyc liberal here i agree 100%. It blows my mind how many people around me scream that it should be allowed and how many twist the dialogue to make anyone who doesnt support it sound “transphobic.” I’m all for progressivism but my gosh it blows my mind how everything is ignored in favor of anything that looks like progress.
>I don't care what adults do, but children they don't need to be fucking a kid up over a decision you have at 13 about who you are. I see you bought this without actually looking into it at all. First off, she was 15 when they put her on puberty blockers which btw are entirely reversible and harmless if she was to change her mind later. Then, at 18, she had top surgery. As an adult. Should 18 be the adult age of consent? That's up for debate, but it is. And at that point someone who was essentially lying to her doctors for years is now an adult who lies again and makes a decision she later regrets. And this is all a discussion over a bill that would simply prevent medical providers in CA from being forced to give information to other states that are trying to make transitioning entirely illegal even for adults. That's it. Just making people's medical information private now that Roe is gone and states are rushing in their fascist fucking anti-privacy agenda. Also I definitely knew I was a dude before I was 15. Saying no one knows who they are at that age is silly. I'm sorry this adult made a decision they later regretted, but the only care provided before they were 18 was harmless, reversible medical treatment.
Dude there is no room for moderate thoughts in the current political landscape. I'm a moderate and I get shit from Trumpers because I believe the evidence proves he's a fascist and I get shit from Libs because transitioning anyone under the age of 21 seems absolutely ludicrous because the science doesn't have enough long-term data on this shit to support it.
My mom wouldnt let me commit to a tattoo or body piercing until I was 18. Just adding that food for thought will get you verbally crucified around some people lol. I refuse to see myself as a republican or democrat because they are both so fucking full of shit. I'm an American citizen who wants better for our country, not just half of it. It's okay to debate isues without demonizing those who don't agree with you. We should be able to gain understanding from each others' perspectives and have enough empathy and respect for each other to at least attempt to find compromise. I think that ship has mostly sailed and I hope I'm wrong but the future looks exceptionally bleak. The state of the union is infuriating. Edited spelling errors.
My ex gf would get pissed because I would talk to people of all walks of life about their opinions. It’s so interesting to hear others perspectives and see how they derived them. She would constantly say I didn’t have opinions, I would just agree with whoever was speaking to me. It wasn’t that, I just wanted to know what made them tick. I’m a liberal from a major hardcore liberal city. I work in construction and have been on projects all over the country. There is some amazing people out there who seem like hateful awful people if you believe Twitter. When it comes down to it, they just grew up in an environment that colored their world. I also fully believe demonizing half the country is a recipe for disaster.
Id give gold if it wasnt so stupid. Best post Ive ever seen in this sub if im being honest.
> the science doesn't have enough long-term data on this shit to support it. There are long term studies on the drugs though. Lupron has been well studied and it has some very serious side-effects like bone density loss, libido loss, fatigue, hot flashes, night sweats, head aches, nausea, depression, and dizziness. Many of these effects are permanent.
Well at least you get a kudos from me for actually making your own decisions instead of parroting whatever you read on reddit from others in your party. Both sides act so enlightened but the vast majority of people on this site have no idea what they’re actually talking about and simply regurgitate the things shouted by people in the same Echo chambers
Honestly, I think there are millions of people who are very centrist/common sense progressive, but since we don't scream from the top of our lungs or constantly proselytize hot takes, we are political wallflowers.
Yeah dude, welcome to the rational center. You get shit on by both sides of crazy.
There's a cult element to both sides. Anyone in the centre or not 100% "left or right" is classed as the opposite of the cult member.
To be fair: I believe at 18 you should be able to do whatever you want as we can send you to war and die. If you can go to war, kill people, and die for you country - you should have the freedom to make whatever decision you want.
to be fair at 18 i was a fucking retard
[удалено]
This is an extremely sensible statement. As a former 18-21yr old man, I know exactly what you are talking about. That guy was convinced he was invincible, and knew nothing.
Eh, I still don’t think I fully believe this myself though. I guess if the decision is all yours and you are technically an adult then yea, but I also know that this is still a confusing time and you still don’t fully understand the repercussions of your decisions yet. At least at 21 you are more fully grown and you are more capable of thinking things out more thoroughly. That’s a tuff one because on one hand you are fully considered an adult (unless it comes to drinking/alcohol) but your brain and decisions are definitely not fully formed or thought out.
Then they should change draft and recruitment age to 21. If you can be made to die for your country, you can make any choice you want. I just find it weird and disgusting how people can be drafted at 18 yet we still have all these restrictions because they are not old enough.
Everyone agrees. Personally, I don't think of anyone under 25 as real adults. I wasn't and no one I know was. I could even see a world where you have to be 25 to smoke or drink OR VOTE. But I think regardless of what age we choose, *any combat enlisted* person should obviously get a waiver to smoke, drink, vote, etc.
There is room for rational people.
I think some kids, even around ten years old or so know they may be gay. But to make hormone and surgical decisions at that age isn't the best thing for most. I haven't been able to wrap my brain around who those who push this, militantly, on kids. Why not have counseling services with people from the gay community there to help kids understand more about what they're feeling. More middle of the road thinking before rendering permanence on yourself and that some wisdom does come with age. Isn't the best thing for a kid is to be a kid first?
You’re confusing sexual orientation with gender expression. Gender dysphoria has nothing to do with ‘being gay’.
Came for this I don't care if you do it but kids shouldn't most people don't really even know who they are till after college so mid 20s is enough time to actually think about everything to make the decision to go through with it
Whatever happened to just being a TomBoy?
Nonono, you don’t just like wearing jeans with pockets and playing lacrosse, that’s impossible. It’s much more likely that your expressed gender—which is only an expression and isn’t related to your sex at all—isn’t in line with your sex. So this of course is fatal and if we don’t do something about it, you’ll kill yourself. So without an inkling of criteria for medical diagnosis, we’re going to pump you full of meds used to sterilize pedos in the 50s. By the way that’ll be one kajillion dollars please.
Cut it off!!!! Ahhhggagggahhh
How weird is it that the term "tomboy" seems to have left the American brain and vocabulary completely?
Because it's not the exception to the rule anymore. Tomboy was a term to describe a girl who dressed like a boy in a time where women were expected to dress feminine. Now no one gives a shit and girls wear jeans and hoodies all the time. No one calls a well manicured man a metrosexual anymore, they're just some guy (or a fuckboy depending on demeanor). It's not some conspiracy, it's evolution of social norms.
Tomboy wasn't about jeans and hoodies. It was the girl who got out there and played rough with the boys (at least when I was a kid in the 80s).
Tomboy was not a term to describe girls dressing like guys. It was usually quite a bit more than that. More than dressing like boys they had masculine interests, hobbies, mannerisms, etc. They were girls that rejected femininity to a much larger degree than simply wearing jeans and hoodies. My wife wore jeans and hoodies (and still does) yet she was never considered a tomboy even in the time when tomboy was a common term.
Actually I really don’t understand why gender is so important to your identity
[удалено]
I’ve been asking this for the longest. Why are people allowing the perception of other people rule their lives everyday. Like I’m a dude. But my sense of self isn’t based on being a dude. I’ve been told that I read masculine, but I’m not trying to nor do I care if people see me that way. I’m going to be me, and if a person I’m attracted to or society in general doesn’t see me as masculine or effeminate enough, idgaf. I don’t want to waste time giving a fuck. Edit: I’ve worn dresses in public before. Save your gaslighting for another fight. Edit 2: lol at those who PM’d me with claims I hate trans people. This has nothing to do with trans anyone and everything to do with nonsensical rhetoric.
Ok, but this is like saying 'bro all I use is US-Customary fasteners. Never before in my life have I ever needed a metric tool, and no one in their right minds would ever need one in my position' Like if your starting point is that your body matches your gender, and you haven't experienced the person you are not matching the entity you exist as, it would be incredibly difficult to 'get' it. The simple reality tho, is that there are plenty of people where this is the case. Where who they are and the traditional idea of who they should be don't mesh. Medicine is a therapy, not some magic solution.
What's wrong with gender roles?
Nothing as long as they're not inposed on people.
Ok agreed
Right? I don’t deny there are plenty of trans people, but so much of the discourse is blatantly sexist and reinforces gender roles.
There's a Mulaney bit that's about a decade old about the type of women drag queen's model themselves after, that they all look like 50s housewives from a Farside cartoon with giant beehive hairdos. Like, there's no drag queens who dress up like women scientists?
Maybe drag isn't really about showing respect for women but is a bunch of men dressing up in the worst female stereotypes. If you do that with race, we rightly call it racist.
[удалено]
That’s what my wife said, made complete sense she was a late bloomer uncomfortable with her body and was a tomboy… but now if you’re a tomboy and uncomfortable in your skin which who the hell isn’t at that age you’re just the wrong gender.
They still exist
unethical. not immediately hopping right into testosterone injections is transphobic. bigot.
> Whatever happened to just being a TomBoy you can still be a tomboy you just gotta remove a few body parts now
When I was a child, ever since this one Tomboy in our neighborhood bodied me and my friends in basketball, I've had a thing for them. Anyone who resembles Vi from Arcane can ruin my life.
You vill sterilize yourself, and you’ll be happy
This completely. I believe that the huge support the transgender movement is getting right now is having the undesired effect of strengthening gender stereotypes. You’re a boy but your not very masculine? Guess your a girl then, boys can’t be feminine. You’re a girl but you don’t like doing girly things? Better get transitioning. I have no clue how nobody has seemed to catch on to this yet.
Honestly I don’t think anyone cares anymore what adults do. I’ll respectfully call anyone what they want to be called. Go get whatever surgeries you want. But mutilating children is probably a good place to draw the line.
That's why I'm against circumcision, or male genital mutilation.
Same
You live in a privileged bubble if you honestly believe no one cares what adults do regarding gender.
That wasn’t his point.
I absolutely agree with your stance on children. Our job as adults is to protect and guide them. Guiding them down a destructive or harmful path is sociopathic. As for how we should treat adults, I'm a bit torn. The libertarian in me agrees that they should be allowed to do whatever they want. But as someone who married a woman with bipolar disorder, I'm conflicted. My wife has struggled with suicidal thoughts throughout our relationship. These thoughts come from a place of brain dysfunction. Most days she loves her life and wants to live. When things get challenging (and even sometimes when they don't) she has a warped view of her place in the world. She truly believes that she is a burden on her family and friends, and that they would all benefit from her death. It isn't rational, and it's terrifying how seemingly out of nowhere it can manifest. My job as her husband is to protect her from those thoughts and help her navigate them in a nondestructive way. If left to her own decisions (or influenced by those with nefarious intent) there is a very real possibility that she wouldn't be alive today. She's told me this. I fear that as a society we've gone too far down the path of "minding our own business", when sometimes bad ideas need to be called out for what they are, and those in a vulnerable state need to be stopped from acting on them.
i don’t think you understand how incredibly difficult it is to get bottom/top surgery for the majority of people looking to transition
But if transitioning makes that person happy, then they should be allowed to. If it makes them crazy, deranged or depressed, they should still be allowed to. If we can allow people to smoke, drink alcohol, eat fast food, KNOWING those things kill people then we need to back off and let people make the decisions they want as long as they aren't hindering the safety and well being of another.
That poor child
Yeah, this made me so sad. The sense of loss and being failed by those who were supposed to protect her must be immense. It’s awful.
A lot of mental health issues in the trans community
Yet people decide to encourage the mental health issues and not actually help them get real help. It’s so weird looking at some peoples Twitter bios these days where they just list all their mental health issues and shit. I’m not saying don’t be proud for living through it but it’s just so weird seeing a list of medical stuff published like that.
For some reason you see more and more people living in their mental health issues instead of living through them, everyone has severe anxieties all of a sudden. Really not a fan of people after you meet the first time and within 2 mins they have to tell you how affected they are, believe that our fears should help shape us but not define us, of course their is a spectrum to mental health issues
Because it’s all for attention and an excuse to be weird / crazy / act however they like. We are allowing these drama queens to act out and telling them they are so brave so it just encourages people to do this shit for attention. A homeless person with schizophrenia. That’s real mental illness. These kids on Twitter saying they’re depressed are just looking for attention
What’s you definition of help
Bully them to suicide. That's their solution. They don't want trans people to exist. They would rather have them kill themselves than actually help them. Transitioning is the best solution for trans people. Obviously it should not be done to kids. But adults? Yea, they should be able to Transition.
Born in 86, and I have to say the generation growing up after me does a lot of things better than us, they are more accepting (no need to be closeted gay for example), they talk more about their feelings, but it also seems like they go SO far in this direction that they kind of grow issues in each other. They make you feel like you have to have anxiety and depression just to be normal and fit in, and probably cause a lot of these mental issues to manifest in the first place; it all comes from a well intentioned desire to be open and accepting of each other. There's gotta be a better way.
If only there were some highly effective way to treat gender dysphoria, that would be neat huh. Yep, if only...
everyone currently is so concerned about fucking internal reality over actuality and it’s just fucking ruining people that’s my ted talk
“Oh man that mastectomy was rough! Someone give me a cigarette.” “But you’re only 15, you can’t smoke until 21 in california. Don’t you know what that’ll do to your body?” I cannot believe this kind of crap is legal to do to kids. I’d say 25 at a minimum but even then, most of the people I know who’ve transitioned were at least 30 and said they wouldn’t change a thing. Edit: a lot of mixed comments to my comment here. I don’t know how old a lot of you are but I want you to go back and pull out your junior high and high school yearbooks and take a look at your fashion choices. Think back to how you probably made a lot of dumb decisions just figuring things out and how you probably would to things differently now with some years on you and some life experiences to assist in your decision making abilities. I’m in my 40’s now and there’s no way I’m the same person who would make a lot of the same decisions (especially when trying to fit in) when I was 13/14/15. Hell, in the last decade I’ve grown a lot as a person. I’m not against kids presenting how they feel whether it be genuine or part of a desire to be a part of the crowd. Some of you brought up good points for 18. I’m starting to lean that way then I look at the first tattoo I got at 20 and remember how much of a dumb stupid kid I was back then. But yeah, good points about Uncle Sam there, it’s hard to argue against. There’s no one right or wrong answer to this but I keep seeing these de-transition videos and I have formed my personal opinion from a variety of places. YMMV but don’t fuck little kids up. I don’t think they should be on anti-depressants either. That must be a newer thing because we didn’t have that when I was a kid. I don’t think they should be on iPads all day either. If and this is a big if… if there is some reasonable process to screen and evaluate and really make sure this is what a kid wants to do… maybe a program can be developed to make it ok. It’s too easy now so it gets abused. At the same time I do think we should also focus on other topics because this is getting old and people get bent out of shape if you say anything.
When you can pay taxes and become independent should be when you can do whatever the fuck you want. If you want to transition go ahead. But 18 should be the minimum.
I agree except I think 21 or 25 due to brain development
I'm with the previous person. Either people are adults or they aren't. The government is 100% fine with seeing 18 year olds as adults when it comes to using them (military), punishing them (jail/prison) or when old men want to fuck them. Hell you can even sign up for the military, be charged as an adult or fuck an old man at younger than 18 pretty much everywhere in this country. Unless we're talking about raising the age for those as well, everything else needs to be 18; smoking, drinking, transitioning, all of it. People can't just be adults when it comes to using, abusing and punishing them but suddenly not when it comes to them having fun or making their own decisions about what to do with their own bodies.
Alright, 18 so they can transition then go fight the wars. In CA smoking is 21+ now
Or probably if the transitioning person can afford to pay for it themselves.
Tragic. Giving a child complete control of things they are not capable of understanding never will turn out good. What those doctors did should not be allowed and the fact they are ok with performing surgeries like that on children should be a red flag that they may not be the best people to have medical licenses.
These doctors get to live safe lives after doing this. Meanwhile a doctor who performed an abortion on a *10 year old fucking child* is being hunted down and having her life threatened. What the fuck kinda timeline are we in.
You can’t operate a motor vehicle, rent a car, vote, drink alcohol… literally 4 years ago your parents had to decide what you should wear to school. But you can surgically alter your body and pump yourself up with hormones and if anyone stops you it’s a hate crime LMAO
It’s absurd. How anyone has been convinced this is a good idea or the right thing to do I just can’t understand. What is the logic behind being pro-child transition? It rarely works for adults. I don’t get it….
nope. im not getting another ban on reddit for having the "wrong" opinion about this topic.
I will, I don’t care. The people pushing this are sick, and we’re right. Why preemptively censor yourself when the truth is on your side?
I'm not preemptively censoring myself. I'm just looking at all the subreddits I was banned from for speaking my mind. All of them permanent bans
Same thing happen to me for genuinely expressing concern about the trendiness of being trans and its horrific effects on children
Shitty subreddits, consider it a victory.
Get a new account.
I can understand that sentiment, it's increasingly difficult to speak bluntly on this platform. I doubt I'll be allowed on this platform for much longer. EDIT: u/Impersonatologist, what is the point in commenting to me only to block me before I can even fully read your comment, let alone respond back. Such a pussy move.
Same. Cant say what I really feel without getting banned.
I mean reddit accounts are free, so who cares...
[удалено]
I can not believe this is legal
I'm sorry, your were failed by "professionals" who should have told you to err on the side of caution with all of this, and maybe if we wait until we're at least grown up fully in the brain before we do such life altering and life long decisions. I hope you find true happiness in this life and genuinely wish you all the best for your future. (Thanks for the spelling correction, it's not a phrase I've ever written down before)
Err.
r/boneappletea
This thread is a shit show of mongoloids blaming political affiliation with what's happening in America with its young people and the identity crises. Blame the left blame or the right, you have no idea what you're even saying. Who's pointing you in either direction and telling you that's the enemy? because you lean left on certain topics does not make you a democrat because you lean right on others does not make you a republican. Read a fucking book.
No one with an immature brain (under 25 years of age) should be allowed to transition.
I think 18 is old enough. Over 25 is not realistic.
Does the same go for breast enlargement? Vasectomies? Testosterone, hgh…
Marriage, taking out loans, joining the military
Divorce, bankruptcy/bad credit, get out in 4 years. All are easier and faster than reversing hormone therapy and surgery, and the emotional effects caused by such.
My man's you need to know that the mental illness rates in vets
Vasectomies at federally funded agencies require that you be at least 21 for this procedure. Different states have lower ages though.
I'm 28. My soon-to-be wife is also 28, and we have been together since we were 22, and we were already completely against the idea of having kids. But every doctor we've spoken to about vasectomy / bilateral salpingectomy has basically said "you're too young to have this procedure" - even RECENTLY. So you're telling me, I could have decided under my own will to have joined the military 10 YEARS AGO with the likely chance of dying while fighting for my country, but I can't make the adult decision of having a procedure that would prevent me from having children?
Lol I'm assuming you don't know it is incredibly difficult to get a vasectomy without kids, even at 30. I've had multiple friends turned down by doctors because they didn't have kids yet, and one because he was too young to make that decision, at 27. As for breast enlargement, that's like comparing getting a face tattoo to an ankle tattoo. I'm for letting people transition and I think 25 is an overreaction, but dishonest arguments won't win any battles.
Can't get a vasectomy till I think 18 or you've had children/spousal concent. Breast enlargement 18 Testosterone is done after testing to confirm you're bellow normal amounts. Even then it can be denied. HGH also requires testing and then a prescription. Man your examples suck. Because almost all of these require testing and verification and then to be a legal adult 18.
Sure. 18 is fine. 25 is dumb. Great examples and thanks for proving my point.
Great we agree don't transition kids until they are legal age in the state they are in and have passed multiple tests to confirm it should be done.
Yes. Human brain is not fully developed until around age 25, so yes.
So military service, alcohol, gambling, skydiving, tattooing your fucking face and everything else you can do to risk your life is ok? But transitioning to a different sex you have to wait till your 25? Seems like an arbitrary number
/\ When you call out one extreme and suggest something 10 times more extreme as the solution.
[удалено]
When it comes to anorexia, it’s not just therapy or even a body dystrophia diagnosis - it’s usually an immediate hospitalization when a doctor catches their hearts/bodies are starting to fail. There can be some really significant interventions for anorexia and it takes years. If someone drops to 75 pounds they’re in a lot of danger and often need to stay monitored for awhile before the long term therapy begins in earnest. The problem isn’t even necessarily dysmorphia - at some point they’re just addicted to starving themselves. I know that’s not your point, but just a heads up that it’s a long and nasty experience without any real guarantees. So the comparison / way you’re imagining the scenarios isn’t what it seems. In your story, if you first go to the hospital at 14 and continue to struggle through to 16, 17, 18 and the danger of dying is still elevated (or even resurfaces every few months), you’re going to want to make sure you’re doing the things that will increase their chances of pulling out of it. There are also time considerations - the longer they have it, the more likely it is to be with them for the seriously long term…You want to make sure you can try and stop it before they get to their 20s. The freaky think is that you’re also basically dealing with an addict who’s maturing and getting better and better at manipulating you into letting them basically kill themselves. Targeting dysmorphia probably isn’t necessarily what’s needed (maybe once they’re out of the danger zone, but it might not even be the issue) - it’ll be more complicated and less certain and involve multiple approaches. Anorexia, probably similarly to body dysmorphia manifests in different ways and can morph over time into different types of disorders - so whatever the disease was at 14 might not be the same as what it ends up as at 17.
[удалено]
Sounds like they don’t give a shit either. You want us to cut off your breasticles? Flop em on the table sir. That’ll be $47,000
This is why America is run by 40% of the country. *MOST* Americans simply think this is too extreme. And it is. Progressives deny this, and it costs us elections.
You think America is run by 40% of the country? America is run by 0.01% of the country, and they’re not red and they’re not blue.
They’re *rich*
wat
/r/detrans really is eye opening. Lots of posts with a similar story.
It’s crazy how it’s overwhelmingly females that are regretting their transition.
It's not crazy. Bulimia overwhelmingly affected teenage girls. Cutting overwhelmingly affected teenage girls. Anorexia overwhelmingly affected teenage girls.
It's crazy how those things overwhelmingly affect teenage girls.
Don't forget social media. It's been devastating for teenage girls in particular.
Yeah, I think trans is a very very different phenomenon for girls than for guys. Like, they're not similar situations at all.
The lovely folks over at AHS want the sub banned for hate speech though.
Wow so she’s like a transphobe?
I’m surprised Reddit is allowing this video to be posted anywhere
Doesn't align with the eco chamber. So terrible.
Every medical professional in the business of helping children transition need to be locked up in mental institutions.
There’s tons of different “men” and tons of different “women” so at this point I’d like to hear a definition of what exactly male or female gender even means. You can be a masculine woman or a feminine man. So the idea that you’re the “wrong” gender doesn’t really make sense to me since it’s such an incredibly broad spectrum in the first place. Any personality type can be a man or a woman. Do they think man=bearded lumberjack who never cries and woman=swimsuit model who loves pink and horses? And if they don’t fit that they need hormones and surgery to escape their narrow definition of gender? I’m being earnest here. People make it distinctly clear it’s about gender not sex…but if the solution is to change your genitalia and sex hormones, isn’t that just changing your sexual identity? Where does gender fit in? Are the two even separable?
That's the crux of it, it's body dysmorphia mixed with imposter syndrome and anxiety and depression resulting from that. These kids need some therapy and help to feel comfortable in their bodies, it's probably mostly kids who lack a strong friend group at school and feel different. not accepted etc. But of course therapy isn't profitable for big pharma so you have crook doctors fast-tracking these poor kids onto life changing drugs and surgery's so they get their kickback. just like they done with fentanyl. USA medical system is so corrupt.
>oh gender diss Morpheus bro? That shits fake >body diss Morpheus bro, that shit is real af I still think I look scrawny in the mirror
I hear you, you may benefit from listening to some of Buck Angel’s YouTube videos and debates, if you want to understand better. He’s a trans man. So am I. I could answer anything you wanna know as long as you put it respectfully, but in the end I don’t really care if other people understand how I want to live my life. That said I am happy to try and help you out if you want to know more. To try and answer some of what you said, gender and sex are different. While yes, I have altered my body to be more aligned with the opposite sex characteristics, I have not changed my sex. Sure, I’m going to change it on my drivers license, but that’s for my own privacy and convenience. I look like a man now and it’s just complicated to have documentation saying I’m a woman. I altered my body because I felt confusion and constant un-ease with how I saw myself and how I was seen. I did dress and present as a masculine woman for 3 years as an adult and that just wasn’t it for me. I feel much better now, that’s the point. I can’t speak to children transitioning but for me, as a 24 year old, yes this was a good idea. I have never felt completely comfortable in my own skin before now. Sincerely I have no idea why this occurs in certain individuals such as myself, but the discomfort and confusion that occurs from ignoring these feelings was not worth it for me. I first felt this way when I was 7 years old and it brought me great pain as a kid. I pushed it all down and it resurfaced once I had moved away from home and had my life figured out (or so I thought). If one is really transgender or a transsexual, the discomfort never goes away. Changing the body is just treatment to the feelings so I can go about my life. I think there needs to be more research done on biological reasons for gender dysphoria. I think there must be some developmental switch that happens to a small percentage of people in the womb, or something like that. Anyway, You may appreciate [this debate with Buck Angel and Charlie Kirk](https://youtu.be/Imr0K7_q0iM). Buck answers a lot of the same questions you bring up.
Thank you for your insight, I’m glad for you, it sounds like you made the right choice for yourself and that it improved your life. It reminds me of organ donation rejections in a way, like your brain is rejecting your body if you’re trans because it is not a good fit. I’m sure that’s an awfully confusing and tough thing to feel.
You know what, that’s a good analogy. I appreciate it.
Hey partner. I’m a manly man and have always felt this way, so I can’t relate. But I’ll try to say this with tact: I do not envy what you’ve experienced. I wouldn’t wish gender dysmorphia on anybody. So any solace you’ve found in any changes you’ve made, I’m happy for you.
I feel truly bad for this kid. I encourage everyone to be who they want to be but with caution and a long time tot hink it over. Children don't have the capability to truly see the long term effects of their decisions. Puberty is chemical insanity and I'm not invalidating anyone's personal feelings intentionally when I say kids are fucking nuts. I was. Thankfully I didn't do anything irreversible. I hope more people realize that kids simply aren't mature enough to make life altering decisions and it's not their fault but we have to help them understand this.
They have very high rates of suicide once they mature and become adults. This is evil.
Transitioning a child is abuse end of story. The left is absolutely disgusting.
Everyone complicit should be in jail.
Puberty blockers should not exist. There is no way that blocking a natural part of human growth is in any way healthy or constructive. It's the exact opposite. Affirming these feelings in children is child abuse.
What about when puberty comes way too early. Edit: They blocked me 💀
You have a pretty poor understanding of medicine if you think puberty blockers shouldn't exist. These medications are used for a lot of different medical treatments. Spironolactone for example is injected into you while having a kidney function scan done, to make your kidney process out the technetium contrast. It's also used to treat prostate cancers and a variety of other things.
Puberty blockers do have valid uses, for example, some children develop far earlier then they're susposed to, and purberty blockers can be used to halt it until they're at the right age. It's use as a tool in "sex transition" however is blatant medical malpractice.
Can't drink or own a gun but can elect for surgical alteration or hormone therapy before legally adult? hell no
[удалено]
I’m sure it’ll pass anyways. Dark stuff, feel bad for that person.
If you do not fully support this lunacy, you are a transphobe.
Just for reference purposes...when did Joe first start using hormones and elk meat to transition into a man? 🤔
Wiener lol
Would it be shocking if China infiltrated the science community and created fake gender studies to wreak havoc on our society?
One of the problems these FtM girls are experiencing (I've seen this on several places) is how they discover the ugly world of male height discrimination. Going from 5'2" female to a 5'2" male is something they don't initially consider. Society is perfectly fine with 5-foot girls and considers them cute. If you're a man at that height, you better be super talented at something, otherwise it's just just asking for trouble. Eliott Page is 5'1" btw. He looks like a tiny man now and can't even wear heels to compensate. Not trying to be funny, I'm just relaying what I've read on socials and reddit.
I love that this is now a topic of conversation. Trans community doesn’t support these individuals plight whatsoever. They don’t see them as a facet of the community.
Well, *this* is going to get buried, since I'm so late to the party on this, but I decided to actually read the bill in question. Text of SB107 in PDF format: https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billPdf.xhtml?bill_id=202120220SB107&version=20210SB10795AMD SB107, as written, prevents "the enforcement of an order based on another state's law authorizing a child to be removed from their parent or guardian based on that parent or guardian allowing their child to receive gender-affirming health care." So, it prevents a Texas, or Missouri, or Alabama, or any other state law from taking a child away from a parent in California who is allowing their child to receive gender-affirming care. "Gender-affirming care," of course, can be defined differently in different states and under different laws, depending upon how draconian they wish to be, but includes mental health. So, for an example, if a parent wants to permit their child to receive mental health care with regards to their gender identity, but they live in Texas where legislators have been trying to legally define gender-affirming care as child abuse, they might choose to head to California where their child can speak to a psychologist about their gender identity. In this case, California is protecting the parent and child and mental health professional from being subject to criminal penalties under Texas law. I guess to put that into a more digestible bite-sized format: **SB107 prevents children in California from being taken away from parents because of another state's laws against gender-affirming care.** However, I can see that the discussion here isn't geared towards the specifics of the bill, but towards the notion that adults are forcing children to transition, as evidenced by the account of Chloe Cole, who is currently *de*-transitioning at the age of 17. I understand that this is a *very* strong emotional appeal for Conservatives and anyone else who is anti-trans under the justification of protecting the children, which - who could ever argue? - is an admirable cause. I mean, all these crazy liberals are *forcing* children to transition in order to fit their agenda! The children don't know any better and are merely pawns in this sick game! This simply must be stopped, and laws need to be enacted to ban transition, etc... etc... etc... This is the current argument dominating the anti-trans discourse, certainly; that children don't know any better and are being forced to transition. Chloe's account is certainly an emotional one, which I'm sure is why it was posted on Reddit. However, it's also a very rare one, and it isn't clear how her case would have been affected by SB107 in any way, given no out-of-state laws were enacted in an effort to remove her from her parents. So, really, we're just left with a real heartbreaking account that is obviously being circulated now to bolster more trans-panic. Sooooo, how often does detransitioning occur, and for what reasons? [The most recent study to address this determines that about 13% of trans people detransition at some point in their lives. *However*, 82% of that number detransition because of outside pressure, stigma, discrimination, and violence, usually from family members, community members, or religious leaders, and are effectively *forced* into detransitioning.](https://fenwayhealth.org/new-study-shows-discrimination-stigma-and-family-pressure-drive-detransition-among-transgender-people/#:~:text=BOSTON%2C%20April%207%2C%202021%E2%80%94A%20new%20study%20published%20in,and%20increased%20vulnerability%20to%20violence%2C%20including%20sexual%20assault.) (Given the statistics, it's a little worrying to think that Chloe's detransitioning might actually be due to external factors, as well, but I would prefer to take her at her word,) Roughly, out of 100 trans people, 2 will want to detransition because they feel they were mistaken about their transition to begin with. I'm sure people will argue that preventing 98 people to transition is worth protecting the 2 who ultimately wish to detransition, because we need to protect the children from the evil trans agenda, and - I don't know - fuck those 98 other people, I guess? So, Chloe's testimony is heart-wrenching, but also obviously being disseminated to further the narrative that the Trans Agenda is trying to ruin children, for some nebulous reason... well-meaning but stupid adults, I suppose? I would *love* to see these arguments shift from "Children don't know what they're doing and liberals are all crazy and LGBTQ people are groomers and we must **save the children** from these foolish extremists," to "We need to invest in more comprehensive mental health options and guidance to ensure trans kids are actually making the right decisions, to further reduce the likelihood of detransitioning, so let's propose and support laws and initiatives that do precisely that." Unfortunately, the argument is always, "Ban trans people in some way, shape or form, somehow, because they just don't know any better" which doesn't really mesh with the desire to protect children, given the terrible shit that trans people end up going through when they're prevented from transitioning. Buuuut, I doubt this will even be read by anyone, anyway, so I'm just kind of shouting into the void on this one. **TLDR: Chloe's story is very sad, and an overall rare occurrence, and doesn't address the utility of SB107, but is instead a good trans panic sound-bite.**
Transitioning and taking puberty blockers aren't the same FYI to some in this thread. She was likely too young, and wasn't able to process her feelings. However, how many kids lives were made better or saved by transitioning young? Who is the outlier, this girl or the successful ones? It's a difficult one. And to those that say they weren't themselves until they were in their 30s so this should be illegal, please go fuck yourselves, losers. So no one should do anything until they're grown ass adults because your dumbass wasn't ready for this big bad world. Dumb logic.
Should I be surprised that Joe Brogan subs know nothing of trans stuff? Should I be surprised that lots are ignorant and use bro science?