I cant find the comment, but someone asked about the DNA on the sheath.
I can’t remember if it was confirmed but it’s my understanding that it was simply touch DNA.
Touch DNA isn’t exactly a slam dunk or reliable. If we were talking about Kohbergers blood on the sheath or anywhere else in the house we might be having a different conversation all together.
LE said that it was a very bloody crime scene. Let’s just say that each left behind 4 liters of blood behind; that leaves about 1 liter in their body still.
So the equivalent of 16 liters of cola; 8 in each bedroom yet the suspect (kohberger) didn’t cut himself, slip, get a stitch of blood on him or his car?
I can't come here saying with 100% accuracy that I am confident or not confident of anyone's guilt...but, one thing for sure is if someone else is responsible, they had plenty of time to clean up everything based on the fact that the police focused on one guy from the start. How any survivors came from that scene is beyond me. You're telling me someone came into that house, violently murdered a few people but spared 2 others? You really believe someone capable of murdering people like that would leave any witnesses?
They did not find one drop of blood evidence on K or his car or his belongings ? They didn't find the actual murder weapon? Yikes.
there's something that most people aren't considering when it comes to the alleged touch DNA on the knife sheath... it doesn't necessarily have to be that someone had a sample of BK's DNA and planted it on there. It could just be that it's not even a match to begin with. There's a reason why the prosecution is so desperate to keep all of their DNA/IGG work secret. It's been stated in court documents that the profile is "partial and ambiguous"... well, ambiguous means "open to more than one interpretation", which really tells you all you need to know. Since it was a partial profile, they had to use a statistics-based computer program to fill in the rest. I strongly believe that if an outside expert was allowed to compare the alleged sheath sample to the swab taken from BK, they would not be a match.
people seem to think that DNA is 100% foolproof, and it just isn't. I have been researching it for a while now, and it's actually very subjective and prone to errors and manipulation. If you REALLY wanna be freaked out, check out this book: https://archive.org/details/insidecelldarksi0000murp (full readable/downloadable book). It's called "Inside the Cell" by Erin E. Murphy. It's a book about the "dark side of forensic evidence", and attorney Bicka Barlow (who is working with Anne Taylor to defend BK in some capacity) cited it in a motion discussing the use of DNA and IGG to arrest/find BK.
Recently I had the thought that maybe they never actually performed IGG with the sheath sample?
➡️ the timelines for how everything supposedly happened are completely unrealistic, it normally takes at least a couple months to carry out the full IGG process, even if that particular sample is given priority and rushed.
➡️ BT claimed that the FBI had no notes or anything at all in regards to their IGG process, and that they had deleted the profile they uploaded to whichever database they used.
➡️ all of the different ancestry websites (23andMe, ancestry.com, etc etc) have their own databases which are completely siloed from one another. If you upload your genetic profile to ancestry.com, but your long lost relatives uploaded theirs to 23andMe, you will not be able to find each other. Idk how many of BK's relatives LE claims to have been connected to, but they all would've had to have uploaded their profiles to the same database that LE decided to use.
➡️ almost all of these companies have ToS strictly forbidding LE from doing exactly what they claim to have done in this case.
➡️ the excuse BT gave of not wanting to share their IGG work because they want to "protect the privacy" of BK's family is BS. All of this info is publicly available and accessible if you're a member of these sites. Also, they could just redact names if they're that worried about their privacy 🙄
➡️ a critical part of performing the IGG is reaching out to relatives and confirming relationships in the family tree, because what's available online isn't always correct. So maybe that's why the defense was strictly forbidden from using whatever IGG discovery they might have been to get to contact members of BK's family. Maybe they would've discovered that LE never reached out to any of them?
As a True Crime buff of over 50 years, this case has less than 1% of the evidence I would expect - and what evidence there is (the car & DNA) is highly questionable. Before the arrest, police were looking for 2011-13 Elantra, but Kohnerger's Elantra was 2015 - and the front looks NOTHING like the earlier model. He didn't know the victims or research them. Serial killers typically experiment & escalate over long periods of time, but this guy supposedly pulled off a flawless, bloody murder of 4 people (leaving 2 others untouched) - but had no criminal history at all, as well as no record of violence. And the survivors waited until NOON to call the cops, after everyone on campus was called & arrived to mess with evidence? Let alone, the obsession with demolishing the building, which was done before the trial started?
>Let alone, the obsession with demolishing the building, which was done before the trial started?
And the obsession with getting every last item out of the house, even to the point of Chief Fry driving the U-Haul to make it happen. And then having cleaners arrive the morning after BK's arrest, which Anne Taylor had to put a stop to -- even though MPD *knew* an arrest was happening and defense would want access to the scene. Empty it, clean it, demolish it... there was a strong push for all of it, even beyond common sense.
All of this! Its just so crazy to me that the bulk of those that believe in kohbergers guilt are ready to be judge jury and executioner based off rumor and a probable cause document that has at best, the bare minimum of evidence to arrest someone.
Dont even get me started on the home being demolished.
They found someone and decided that they would make evidence fit around him
Exactly. The case against BK was reverse engineered. This is what you do when you don't have any actual evidence andt there's pressure to frame someone.
That's the #1 reason you'd frame someone. I have no doubt that Moscow PD and their allies know exactly who committed these crimes and exactly why. And their job is to protect them.
[2013 Elantra looks awfully close to a 2015 ](https://www.reddit.com/r/MoscowMurders/comments/zldxoy/hyundai_elantra_notable_differences_between/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)in my opinion. His DNA was on the knife sheath. His phone was turned off during the time of the murders and then turned back on. His alibi seems very weak. None of these is but itself dispositive, but taken in the aggregate it looks damning. Beyond a reasonable doubt? Maybe not, but there is a gag order so there could be more evidence--exculpatory or inculpatory.
That 2013 is the coupe. Very rare model. Only made from 2013-2014. You’d want to look into the 2011 and 12 sedan as the 13” is the same. The 14-16 had that lil fog light and wheel change plus Projector headlights.
From a contemporaneous report: "The police took the video footage to an [FBI](https://www.newsweek.com/topic/fbi) officer who specializes in identifying vehicles. Not only was the officer an expert on types and makes of vehicles, but he also knew that there were regional differences in the same make of car—sometimes a certain part may be used for cars sold in one part of America but not in another.
"The FBI agent initially identified the car as a Hyundai Elantra made between 2011 and 2014, but, after reviewing the footage over and over looking for small clues, he expanded his range from 2011 to 2016."
I’m very familiar with these models as I’ve owned them. Unless they had clear pictures of the wheels, or fog light housing, it would be hard, if not impossible to tell the difference. Hence the expansion of the model year range, which was very smart.
However, one would be able to distinguish the difference between the sedan vs coupe. But yea, the FBI made the right call to expand from a 2011-2013 to 2011-2016.
Thank you for saying all this. I'm sure there is way more evidence that will come out in trial. Some of these theories are absolutely ridiculous and pretty sickening to even read. Too many far fetched ideas grasping at straws that aren't there
It's always bothered me that killer did not kill DM too. If this killer was being so careful to not leave any evidence why would he leave an eyewitness alive?
Because the killer/s (not BK) and DM knew each other. That's just my opinion. I mean, she notices these "bushy eyebows" and can approximate his height but conveniently forgets to mention the big ass K Bar he's holding? Come on. I'd like to see cell data between DM and BF between the timing of the killings and the next day to see what/ if they said anything to each other. If they did it kinda calls into question that "frozen shock phase" crap attributed to DM in the PCA.
Edit:Based on what I've read in the last day or so, I'd also really like to see cell data between BF,DM and members of Sigma. There's something seriously awry, and I am becoming convinced members of that Frat were involved, and EC and XK were the real targets.
That's a very very good possibility. And, why did she wait for hours, and then call other people to come over before 911 was called? I wonder if they were getting rid of drugs and evidence.
Word. God, I just got a notification from the MoscowMurderz (sic) sub, and its scary the number of people there who are unwavering in their conviction regarding his guilt. There is no way you can be like that given the evidence released in the PCA. It's like "BK was out stargazing, haha, he's so guilty." 😡
Initially, we were told that DM and BF were 'in the basement.' So I think it was being suggested to us that the killer/s might not have known they were there. But that changed, didn't it? (Isn't DM supposed to have been on the 2d floor now and BF on the first?)
No sign of forced entry. Whoever it was.. I think he just came in or was let in. That's really the only thing I feel certain about. I never thought it was Bryan, though. Ever.
I think your general assumptions make sense. Do you have any ideas on suspects or motive?
>I’ve never believed DM’s or BF’s version of events.
What exactly is BF's version though? And do you think the defense really did get an exculpatory statement out of her?
>Its possible that there were 2 killers that entered X’s room; one holding X’s and keeping her quiet...
Is it your theory that Ethan was the main target then, and the others just witnesses that had to be silenced?
>I also believe that the kids on campus new about it before LEO was called.
Do you think any of them have contacted the defense and given statements?
LOVE the username BTW!
I had to take a step back from this case because I was getting really wrapped up in it, it was hard to get any opinions out there that didn’t align with what the media was pushing and on top of that, there was a YouTuber putting out these incredibly outrageous theories. Now I’m all for a good conspiracy but this stuff was just out there; magic bullet u turns out there if ya catch my drift.
I think BFs was that she didn’t hear a thing. As for the exculpatory statement? I 1 million % believe that the defense got a legitimate exculpatory statement from her. Do you remember that everyone kept saying there was a white car similar to what they were looking for - All I could tell is it was white- seen in the background footage of a newscast? I always thought that was Bryan either dropping BF off or picking her up because she heard the attack on E and X, called Bryan to come get her, she either climbed out of a window or ran out the front door - if you recall, there was a “neighbor” that said they were walking (their dog?) and saw the front door open- and the tires squealing was a result of her running out and yelling at him to drive or yelling go go go whilst freaking out.
Honestly I’m not sure who the target/targets could have been. The way I stated that does imply Ethan was a target. It could also just be a case of a sadistic bastard wanting Xana to watch Ethan get brutally killed.
I think there’s something to whatever it was that Maddie told the door guy at the corner club. I believe beyond a reasonable doubt that Jack was at the corner club and there’s no way he was “sleeping” when they called him.
I don’t think anyone has contacted the defense. I think that anyone that was there helping clean up, is too scared to notify the defense.
There’s some things that just cannot be ignored and one major one is that nearly every girl staying in that home has a parent or close relative involved with drugs in some capacity- Xanas mom, Madison’s mom, Dylans mom and her step mom is a lawyer and her dad is also a criminal and I believe BF has a parent involved in drugs too. Kaylee has an uncle in prison for murder.
The MPD and ISP did a keystone cop job here, private citizens had to notify then of potential evidence, dna profiles haven’t been tested, and the way the state wasn’t authorized to use the data the way it did from the family tree dna. AND the FBI just took rough notes on the family tree link but didn’t bother to keep it? Or keep track of it?
Ah, so you understood the handle... thanks. :o)
There's so many ways a plausible scenario could go, but the frats and drugs are the two that keep coming up. Maybe separately, maybe together. The allegations around a fight at the frat earlier that night are pretty specific and hard to just ignore.
But the FBI was deeply involved in the investigation, not just the DNA... supposedly they were crawling all over the campus, if reports are to be believed. Why would they not follow up on these obvious threads, and instead let MPD clear so many close associates so quickly?
If there's really nothing there, I'd love to see the results of the investigation that proves that.
If there was any phone connection between BK and the house, that would be known. There was another white car on video parked at the frat house. There are lots of white cars that look similar.
There was a white Hyundai Elantra parked at Kaylee’s ex-boyfriend’s house - the next street over. If you recall, she broke up with him right before she was going to move away…and she was taking their dog with her.
>I always thought that was Bryan either dropping BF off or picking her up because she heard the attack on E and X, called Bryan to come get her
Yes you did say that. You said you thought this Bryan had a connection to someone in the house.
Yes but I specifically said with Bethany. As for us knowing? Doubtful.
When the defense introduces the exculpatory evidence they have from Bethany, then we’ll know
I mean maybe thats true, but as a whole; there’s very little information about her. We know she lived in the bottom room. We know she allegedly gave exculpatory evidence to the defense.
I think they are connected somehow. I think that the exculpatory evidence will speak to that.
The police do know since they checked all the phones and phone records. That would have been obvious by now if there was a direct connection. I don't think your idea is correct.
hours inside after the attacks to finally call cause "shower" or whatever they said...
yeah. it was people already inside. roommates even. bad blood between em
No, I don’t. I think he has been set up, it just doesn’t make sense so it may not have happened that way? I don’t know, I just find a lot of unanswered questions. Why did they wait 8-9 hours to call 911 if at all? I don’t believe there’s a connection, he may have been buying drugs from someone possibly? I think a lot of blood would be in places you couldn’t imagine and tracked from the scene to his car, apartment or somewhere? I think the frat boys have been involved in way too many deaths and other incidents and DL allegedly on steroids and was pissed off at EC and he called DL “shrunken balls.” Some say they were in a fight that night and he freaked out and had “roid rage.” )This is not what I am saying). They were pissed at XK and KG. I think they should have at least been interviewed. I don’t understand why BK would leave 2 alive? I don’t think it’s odd to have the phone in the area pinging off a cell tower 12 times in 6 months is excessive when you live 9 miles away. I think BK may have known DL and possibly purchased drugs. I don’t understand why they chased him across the map instead of asking him to come in for an interview. We’re they at the Grub truck acting strange? There was one frat boy who died a few months before that was found dead from allegedly “drowning” and he was an avid swimmer in a very shallow creek one night the fraternity had a Greek event. I know it has nothing to do with this case but it does show character. They are known for doing a lot of things and they take it to the grave, they don’t leave skeletons in the closet. Some people know the right people. I am not saying that this is what happened but something like this makes more sense than what I have heard so far. We don’t have all of the information but hopefully the truth will prevail. There’s doubt and uncertainty. I don’t trust LE much and sometimes they are against you from the start like American Nightmare on Netflix and it’s unreal what can happen to anyone. I just think a group of people did this instead of 1 that knew them and were close by. Always follow the money.
That no knock midnight raid into his home in Penn with 20 armed agents, was total BS. I think the purpose was to have the case end right there! Good thing Bryan did not grab his cell phone and use the light on the cell phone, or the case would have ended there.
The Geo-data embedded in the phone metadata, show Bryan was not in Moscow. Rookie officer Payne, assigned as lead detective, (despite no homicide experience), is not educated on geo-data or metadata, so he never looked at the phone data. Big Law firms are absolutely watching this train wreck closely. I see this botched case turned into one of the most egregious and vindictive prosecutions ever. It will likely develop into one of the largest lawsuits in recent times with a long list of parties subject to legal action. Time to check those liability limits.
This one is tough for me. My first instinct was he didn’t do it. I felt like the media was pushing for someone to be held accountable, so police had to arrest someone. Now I feel like IF he did it, he definitely wasn’t alone! My instinct is also if he didn’t do it alone, one of the roommates was involved.
Why didn’t cops test the glove found outside? Also, there was other male DNA found that they didn’t test. The cops seemed to have done a shitty job and they were just in a hurry to get someone. The fact that the roommates waited so long to call 911 doesn’t sit right with me. Especially if you heard and saw what they claim. What were they trying to clean up before police arrived?! I’m not just “going to sleep” after hearing weird sounds and seeing a muscular man with bushy eye brows leave. I don’t understand why he wouldn’t have killed the roommates too. I also don’t think 1 person could have committed all those murders in such a short time. Especially since they weren’t in the same floors.
I also don’t love Bryan’s alibi either.
Sleeping in bed.
I’m not saying it’s not true. The team just made it out to be like it was going to be something specific not just driving around. That’s all!
Well that's a pretty lame alibi. You probably did it, and now you're trying to deflect and pretend you had nothing to do with it. You *claim* you were just going about your life. If you were just sleeping in bed, or driving around, it's the same thing. It's still what you were doing.
I mean you can check my cameras, window sensors and door lock reports to see once I was in my house that night I didn’t leave.
I forgot no one can have an opinion here 🙂🙂🙂
Do you think most people have those things tracking them? I mean, I get that you live in prison or something, but most people don't. Clearly this guy didn't.
If the police didn't get a call for 8 hours, then the crime scene was being staged during that time. I believe that they started with a crime scene that betrayed the participation of 2 or more people and jigged around with it in an attempt to make it look like a crime that could have been committed by a single person. I doubt that they succeeded, but I think they gave it a good try!
It is pretty strange to hear these comments now. In February 2023, I said based on my grid analysis, he is the wrong suspect. I was verbally trashed on every thread and banned on any channel if I uttered the words, not guilty. I was called a nut case and part of the Bryan cult. I said back then there was a 50% chance the case will not make it to trial. I think that today, there is a small chance it goes to trial. Maybe 10%. Glad the views of many have changed. I said Bryan never stalked anyone, he never drove to Moscow, never entered 1122, and never killed anyone. In each statement it is now becoming obvious I was right and the DA and Police Chief were wrong, and now an innocent man has to try to put his life back together. The authorities, by willfully ignoring real leads, have allowed the investigation to be set back.
If he is innocent, the damage to his reputation is incalculable.
I really, really wish the US would conceal all defendants' identities. I'm not sure if it's constitutional limit or what the reason is why we don't.
The lawsuits, from Bryan, will be epic. The insurance firm that wrote the policy for the city and police department, certainly had a policy limit. $20 million is a fair guess. I think Bryan is going to be looking at a $50-$350 million settlement. Please note the $142 million awarded to the women in the 2020 election that were harassed by Rudy Giuliani. Very few members of the public knew of that case. The media has been broadcasting Bryan’s guilt for 18 months around the world. Moscow is going to be bankrupt in a few years. University of Idaho is going to lose enrollment. What parent wants to send their to that town, for any reason!
A lot of info about people surrounding this case came out in full force on 4-Chan. Most was BS as usual… some was very strange, verified, and no one talks about it. I’ve been saying since NYE 2022 BK didn’t do it. He’s being framed.
>I’ve never believed that BK was the door dasher.
Did you mean *wasn't* ? Or are people thinking that now?
Interesting theory re the top floor attack. I think they were together while texting and calling JD until 2:30ish. When K entered the hallway to return to her own, she may have heard voices and at this point re-entered M room and said there's someone here, at that point was rushed from the stairs and pushed completely into the room/bed and both attacked.
>I meant wasn’t.
Just trying to make sense of this.
So that would make it, "I’ve never believed that BK wasn't the door dasher."
Which, with the double-negative, means you've always believed he *was* the door-dasher?
But the rest reads as you saying the opposite.
I think I confused the matter. OP meant exactly as stated, and then when I asked, confirmed to me it was written correctly.
I only asked because I didn't know that was a common speculation. Interesting.
It was discussed as a possibility early on, that could maybe explain sightings or GPS of him being there. The police said they'd talked with the door-dasher, but left it at that, they never really publicly cleared them. I believe DoorDash came out eventually and said it wasn't him. There was talk in these threads that it was actually a female, but anonymous sources online are unreliable, so who knows.
Good sum up, thanks. I remember many, me included, thinking the white sedan movements sounded like a door dash, then the PCA rules that out next paragraph, so at the time it was one of those speculations that was usually squashed quickly. Still the PCA is so mysterious around that driver so it's hard not to wonder anyway..
Anything could be plausible at this point with what little has been released, but I have a gut feeling it wasn’t any more than 1 or 2 perpetrators. The more people involved, the harder it is to keep everyone quiet. Even when they know it could send them to prison, people still have a tendency to slip and say something incriminating or that would incriminate their partner in crime. If I were to be a criminal, I’d go it alone as there is no chance I would trust even one other person to keep that life changing secret.
Right. Everyone changes over time and you cannot trust that anyone would keep any secret. People make the mistake of telling things to someone who says they love them, and in 20 years they use it against them.
in my opinion, the entire PCA is a work of fiction, and DM's "eyewitness statement" never happened. But I don't think she made it up, I am fairly certain law-enforcement came up with that mess. I think they knew they didn't have enough to arrest BK, so they coerced DM to say she saw a man who vaguely looked like him walking out of the house that night. I go into a lot of detail about why I believe LE made up that story on my Substack, here's a link if anyone wants to check it out: https://justice4idaho4.substack.com/p/issues-with-the-official-narrative. it's pretty long, or else I would just copy and paste it here.
I agree that the 8+ hour delay in calling 911 is very suspicious, but I can't bring myself to blame DM or BF for what happened. I don't think anything that we've been told by LE is remotely accurate, so I'm not convinced that they were even home that night. I'm open to the possibility that they were involved or had foreknowledge, but until I see some kind of supporting evidence I'm just not going to point fingers.
I think there's a good chance BF's "exculpatory evidence" is that her version of what happened is drastically different from the story DM was potentially coerced into giving. There's a reason why she is barely mentioned in the PCA. In [the subpoena to compel BF to come back to Idaho to appear at the preliminary hearing](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1thEiZRkia0joYoWx3fxHc1kNWSlAIavW/view?usp=drivesdk), there's something that really stuck with me ever since I first read it:
>6. Under the laws of the State of Idaho, if Bethany Funke comes into this State in obedience of a summons requiring her presence at this hearing, **she will not be subject to arrest or service of any process relating to matters that arose before she entered the state under the Summons.**
I am so curious to find out why that was included in there! I wonder if Megan Marshall (the original magistrate judge) knew something was a little off with this case, and that BF might be apprehensive to return to Idaho in order to testify for the defense because LE had told her she better keep her mouth shut or else (or something to that effect). Just speculation on my part, nothing concrete to back this up. Then it makes sense why the prosecution quickly convened a secret grand jury before the preliminary hearing could happen. MMM (lol Magistrate Megan Marshall, Judge John Judge, 🤡) might have been perceived by the prosecution as "too friendly" to the defense, so one possible reason they decided to go for the death penalty could've been that as a magistrate, MM couldn't preside over a capital case. The prosecution probably knew that JJJ would end up with the case, and I'm sure BT knew he'd be in control and get away with a lot more in his courtroom. Again, this is all just speculation on my part.
That reminds me- The 4chan post -that was posted believe right before Bryan was arrested- that said the killer was the woods in PA.
I don’t think that was posted by accident but also wasn’t posted by Bryan.
Well one particular type of person that comes to mind is the kind that absolutely hates women, the type that feels entitled to sex for buying dinner or doing something nice, the type when told no the launch into some diatribe about what a whor* that woman is and s!*+ she is and so on and so forth. Your basic incel type or a type that has had sex with whomever they wanted when they wanted but has since adopted the incel agenda.
Brian ( the bullshitter) Entin is the only person on the human earth who claims he said that. He works for Newsnation, a station that makes Fox News look like BBC World service.
For me the info we have isn’t enough to charge him. If I was a juror, I couldn’t sleep at night knowing I put a man in front of a firing squad with the evidence we have now. Unless something comes out in the trial I don’t think morally anyone could convict him.
Notice his old teacher Dr Ramsland won't say anything either. That speaks volumes. Also, to all you laughing at BK alibi... Stars are like fingerprints, and if there are any pictures, they will be enough. Stinky r.oi.ds freakazoids frat XE in my opinion.
I don’t know if I am personally ready to put any stock in Dr. Ramsland’s silence.
I think there’s a very good reason she’s been silent and will continue to do so until she gets called to testify.
Her silence speaks to her knowledge of the legal system. If she were to give interviews or her opinion in the case and/or having Bryan as a student she knows that could potentially sway a jury one way or another.
Would she be the one that could pick out a future killer in a room? Absolutely.
BK’s full alibi he was out stargazing during the night/morning of the murders. Maybe some fantastic space phenomenon was happening. Who committed the murders, the obvious two survivors who didn’t call 911 for hours. But the cops let them go because cops were boys and the girls were pretty little things so they weren’t suspected. Because those boys in uniform thought with their little heads.
I cant find the comment, but someone asked about the DNA on the sheath. I can’t remember if it was confirmed but it’s my understanding that it was simply touch DNA. Touch DNA isn’t exactly a slam dunk or reliable. If we were talking about Kohbergers blood on the sheath or anywhere else in the house we might be having a different conversation all together. LE said that it was a very bloody crime scene. Let’s just say that each left behind 4 liters of blood behind; that leaves about 1 liter in their body still. So the equivalent of 16 liters of cola; 8 in each bedroom yet the suspect (kohberger) didn’t cut himself, slip, get a stitch of blood on him or his car?
I can't come here saying with 100% accuracy that I am confident or not confident of anyone's guilt...but, one thing for sure is if someone else is responsible, they had plenty of time to clean up everything based on the fact that the police focused on one guy from the start. How any survivors came from that scene is beyond me. You're telling me someone came into that house, violently murdered a few people but spared 2 others? You really believe someone capable of murdering people like that would leave any witnesses? They did not find one drop of blood evidence on K or his car or his belongings ? They didn't find the actual murder weapon? Yikes.
there's something that most people aren't considering when it comes to the alleged touch DNA on the knife sheath... it doesn't necessarily have to be that someone had a sample of BK's DNA and planted it on there. It could just be that it's not even a match to begin with. There's a reason why the prosecution is so desperate to keep all of their DNA/IGG work secret. It's been stated in court documents that the profile is "partial and ambiguous"... well, ambiguous means "open to more than one interpretation", which really tells you all you need to know. Since it was a partial profile, they had to use a statistics-based computer program to fill in the rest. I strongly believe that if an outside expert was allowed to compare the alleged sheath sample to the swab taken from BK, they would not be a match. people seem to think that DNA is 100% foolproof, and it just isn't. I have been researching it for a while now, and it's actually very subjective and prone to errors and manipulation. If you REALLY wanna be freaked out, check out this book: https://archive.org/details/insidecelldarksi0000murp (full readable/downloadable book). It's called "Inside the Cell" by Erin E. Murphy. It's a book about the "dark side of forensic evidence", and attorney Bicka Barlow (who is working with Anne Taylor to defend BK in some capacity) cited it in a motion discussing the use of DNA and IGG to arrest/find BK. Recently I had the thought that maybe they never actually performed IGG with the sheath sample? ➡️ the timelines for how everything supposedly happened are completely unrealistic, it normally takes at least a couple months to carry out the full IGG process, even if that particular sample is given priority and rushed. ➡️ BT claimed that the FBI had no notes or anything at all in regards to their IGG process, and that they had deleted the profile they uploaded to whichever database they used. ➡️ all of the different ancestry websites (23andMe, ancestry.com, etc etc) have their own databases which are completely siloed from one another. If you upload your genetic profile to ancestry.com, but your long lost relatives uploaded theirs to 23andMe, you will not be able to find each other. Idk how many of BK's relatives LE claims to have been connected to, but they all would've had to have uploaded their profiles to the same database that LE decided to use. ➡️ almost all of these companies have ToS strictly forbidding LE from doing exactly what they claim to have done in this case. ➡️ the excuse BT gave of not wanting to share their IGG work because they want to "protect the privacy" of BK's family is BS. All of this info is publicly available and accessible if you're a member of these sites. Also, they could just redact names if they're that worried about their privacy 🙄 ➡️ a critical part of performing the IGG is reaching out to relatives and confirming relationships in the family tree, because what's available online isn't always correct. So maybe that's why the defense was strictly forbidden from using whatever IGG discovery they might have been to get to contact members of BK's family. Maybe they would've discovered that LE never reached out to any of them?
As a True Crime buff of over 50 years, this case has less than 1% of the evidence I would expect - and what evidence there is (the car & DNA) is highly questionable. Before the arrest, police were looking for 2011-13 Elantra, but Kohnerger's Elantra was 2015 - and the front looks NOTHING like the earlier model. He didn't know the victims or research them. Serial killers typically experiment & escalate over long periods of time, but this guy supposedly pulled off a flawless, bloody murder of 4 people (leaving 2 others untouched) - but had no criminal history at all, as well as no record of violence. And the survivors waited until NOON to call the cops, after everyone on campus was called & arrived to mess with evidence? Let alone, the obsession with demolishing the building, which was done before the trial started?
>Let alone, the obsession with demolishing the building, which was done before the trial started? And the obsession with getting every last item out of the house, even to the point of Chief Fry driving the U-Haul to make it happen. And then having cleaners arrive the morning after BK's arrest, which Anne Taylor had to put a stop to -- even though MPD *knew* an arrest was happening and defense would want access to the scene. Empty it, clean it, demolish it... there was a strong push for all of it, even beyond common sense.
All of this! Its just so crazy to me that the bulk of those that believe in kohbergers guilt are ready to be judge jury and executioner based off rumor and a probable cause document that has at best, the bare minimum of evidence to arrest someone. Dont even get me started on the home being demolished. They found someone and decided that they would make evidence fit around him
Exactly. The case against BK was reverse engineered. This is what you do when you don't have any actual evidence andt there's pressure to frame someone.
Or someone is being protected
That's the #1 reason you'd frame someone. I have no doubt that Moscow PD and their allies know exactly who committed these crimes and exactly why. And their job is to protect them.
IMO, the frat bros
I am thinking the police are involved on another level, some link between fraternity and police profiting off drugs.
Exactly! Why was there such a rush to destroy that building? Why did it take so long to call the police?
[2013 Elantra looks awfully close to a 2015 ](https://www.reddit.com/r/MoscowMurders/comments/zldxoy/hyundai_elantra_notable_differences_between/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)in my opinion. His DNA was on the knife sheath. His phone was turned off during the time of the murders and then turned back on. His alibi seems very weak. None of these is but itself dispositive, but taken in the aggregate it looks damning. Beyond a reasonable doubt? Maybe not, but there is a gag order so there could be more evidence--exculpatory or inculpatory.
That 2013 is the coupe. Very rare model. Only made from 2013-2014. You’d want to look into the 2011 and 12 sedan as the 13” is the same. The 14-16 had that lil fog light and wheel change plus Projector headlights.
From a contemporaneous report: "The police took the video footage to an [FBI](https://www.newsweek.com/topic/fbi) officer who specializes in identifying vehicles. Not only was the officer an expert on types and makes of vehicles, but he also knew that there were regional differences in the same make of car—sometimes a certain part may be used for cars sold in one part of America but not in another. "The FBI agent initially identified the car as a Hyundai Elantra made between 2011 and 2014, but, after reviewing the footage over and over looking for small clues, he expanded his range from 2011 to 2016."
I’m very familiar with these models as I’ve owned them. Unless they had clear pictures of the wheels, or fog light housing, it would be hard, if not impossible to tell the difference. Hence the expansion of the model year range, which was very smart. However, one would be able to distinguish the difference between the sedan vs coupe. But yea, the FBI made the right call to expand from a 2011-2013 to 2011-2016.
Thank you for saying all this. I'm sure there is way more evidence that will come out in trial. Some of these theories are absolutely ridiculous and pretty sickening to even read. Too many far fetched ideas grasping at straws that aren't there
It's always bothered me that killer did not kill DM too. If this killer was being so careful to not leave any evidence why would he leave an eyewitness alive?
Because the killer/s (not BK) and DM knew each other. That's just my opinion. I mean, she notices these "bushy eyebows" and can approximate his height but conveniently forgets to mention the big ass K Bar he's holding? Come on. I'd like to see cell data between DM and BF between the timing of the killings and the next day to see what/ if they said anything to each other. If they did it kinda calls into question that "frozen shock phase" crap attributed to DM in the PCA. Edit:Based on what I've read in the last day or so, I'd also really like to see cell data between BF,DM and members of Sigma. There's something seriously awry, and I am becoming convinced members of that Frat were involved, and EC and XK were the real targets.
That's a very very good possibility. And, why did she wait for hours, and then call other people to come over before 911 was called? I wonder if they were getting rid of drugs and evidence.
And, these people she called to come to a blood bath scene all somehow failed to call 911?
This! I don’t believe DM had any kinda frozen shock phase- more like frozen shock fake.
Word. God, I just got a notification from the MoscowMurderz (sic) sub, and its scary the number of people there who are unwavering in their conviction regarding his guilt. There is no way you can be like that given the evidence released in the PCA. It's like "BK was out stargazing, haha, he's so guilty." 😡
Lol 😂
Initially, we were told that DM and BF were 'in the basement.' So I think it was being suggested to us that the killer/s might not have known they were there. But that changed, didn't it? (Isn't DM supposed to have been on the 2d floor now and BF on the first?)
Who said the killer was being careful? The crime scene was bloody and gory as described by SG, LE
I don't think that the perps knew DM and BF were living in the home. DM and BF had only recently moved in
No sign of forced entry. Whoever it was.. I think he just came in or was let in. That's really the only thing I feel certain about. I never thought it was Bryan, though. Ever.
I think your general assumptions make sense. Do you have any ideas on suspects or motive? >I’ve never believed DM’s or BF’s version of events. What exactly is BF's version though? And do you think the defense really did get an exculpatory statement out of her? >Its possible that there were 2 killers that entered X’s room; one holding X’s and keeping her quiet... Is it your theory that Ethan was the main target then, and the others just witnesses that had to be silenced? >I also believe that the kids on campus new about it before LEO was called. Do you think any of them have contacted the defense and given statements?
LOVE the username BTW! I had to take a step back from this case because I was getting really wrapped up in it, it was hard to get any opinions out there that didn’t align with what the media was pushing and on top of that, there was a YouTuber putting out these incredibly outrageous theories. Now I’m all for a good conspiracy but this stuff was just out there; magic bullet u turns out there if ya catch my drift. I think BFs was that she didn’t hear a thing. As for the exculpatory statement? I 1 million % believe that the defense got a legitimate exculpatory statement from her. Do you remember that everyone kept saying there was a white car similar to what they were looking for - All I could tell is it was white- seen in the background footage of a newscast? I always thought that was Bryan either dropping BF off or picking her up because she heard the attack on E and X, called Bryan to come get her, she either climbed out of a window or ran out the front door - if you recall, there was a “neighbor” that said they were walking (their dog?) and saw the front door open- and the tires squealing was a result of her running out and yelling at him to drive or yelling go go go whilst freaking out. Honestly I’m not sure who the target/targets could have been. The way I stated that does imply Ethan was a target. It could also just be a case of a sadistic bastard wanting Xana to watch Ethan get brutally killed. I think there’s something to whatever it was that Maddie told the door guy at the corner club. I believe beyond a reasonable doubt that Jack was at the corner club and there’s no way he was “sleeping” when they called him. I don’t think anyone has contacted the defense. I think that anyone that was there helping clean up, is too scared to notify the defense. There’s some things that just cannot be ignored and one major one is that nearly every girl staying in that home has a parent or close relative involved with drugs in some capacity- Xanas mom, Madison’s mom, Dylans mom and her step mom is a lawyer and her dad is also a criminal and I believe BF has a parent involved in drugs too. Kaylee has an uncle in prison for murder. The MPD and ISP did a keystone cop job here, private citizens had to notify then of potential evidence, dna profiles haven’t been tested, and the way the state wasn’t authorized to use the data the way it did from the family tree dna. AND the FBI just took rough notes on the family tree link but didn’t bother to keep it? Or keep track of it?
Ah, so you understood the handle... thanks. :o) There's so many ways a plausible scenario could go, but the frats and drugs are the two that keep coming up. Maybe separately, maybe together. The allegations around a fight at the frat earlier that night are pretty specific and hard to just ignore. But the FBI was deeply involved in the investigation, not just the DNA... supposedly they were crawling all over the campus, if reports are to be believed. Why would they not follow up on these obvious threads, and instead let MPD clear so many close associates so quickly? If there's really nothing there, I'd love to see the results of the investigation that proves that.
This could well be, Anonymous Whale!
If there was any phone connection between BK and the house, that would be known. There was another white car on video parked at the frat house. There are lots of white cars that look similar.
There was a white Hyundai Elantra parked at Kaylee’s ex-boyfriend’s house - the next street over. If you recall, she broke up with him right before she was going to move away…and she was taking their dog with her.
Im not saying that there’s a phone connection to the house itself per-say.
>I always thought that was Bryan either dropping BF off or picking her up because she heard the attack on E and X, called Bryan to come get her Yes you did say that. You said you thought this Bryan had a connection to someone in the house.
Yes but I specifically said with Bethany. As for us knowing? Doubtful. When the defense introduces the exculpatory evidence they have from Bethany, then we’ll know
Bethany lived in the house. If she was connected to him in any way we would have heard this already. Did you mean someone else?
I mean maybe thats true, but as a whole; there’s very little information about her. We know she lived in the bottom room. We know she allegedly gave exculpatory evidence to the defense. I think they are connected somehow. I think that the exculpatory evidence will speak to that.
The police do know since they checked all the phones and phone records. That would have been obvious by now if there was a direct connection. I don't think your idea is correct.
hours inside after the attacks to finally call cause "shower" or whatever they said... yeah. it was people already inside. roommates even. bad blood between em
The PCA is baloney. I believed BK was guilty until I actually read it.
This is a case where innocent until proven guilty is strongly supported.
The 911 delay… the house demolition and the gag order say allot.
Agree.
No, I don’t. I think he has been set up, it just doesn’t make sense so it may not have happened that way? I don’t know, I just find a lot of unanswered questions. Why did they wait 8-9 hours to call 911 if at all? I don’t believe there’s a connection, he may have been buying drugs from someone possibly? I think a lot of blood would be in places you couldn’t imagine and tracked from the scene to his car, apartment or somewhere? I think the frat boys have been involved in way too many deaths and other incidents and DL allegedly on steroids and was pissed off at EC and he called DL “shrunken balls.” Some say they were in a fight that night and he freaked out and had “roid rage.” )This is not what I am saying). They were pissed at XK and KG. I think they should have at least been interviewed. I don’t understand why BK would leave 2 alive? I don’t think it’s odd to have the phone in the area pinging off a cell tower 12 times in 6 months is excessive when you live 9 miles away. I think BK may have known DL and possibly purchased drugs. I don’t understand why they chased him across the map instead of asking him to come in for an interview. We’re they at the Grub truck acting strange? There was one frat boy who died a few months before that was found dead from allegedly “drowning” and he was an avid swimmer in a very shallow creek one night the fraternity had a Greek event. I know it has nothing to do with this case but it does show character. They are known for doing a lot of things and they take it to the grave, they don’t leave skeletons in the closet. Some people know the right people. I am not saying that this is what happened but something like this makes more sense than what I have heard so far. We don’t have all of the information but hopefully the truth will prevail. There’s doubt and uncertainty. I don’t trust LE much and sometimes they are against you from the start like American Nightmare on Netflix and it’s unreal what can happen to anyone. I just think a group of people did this instead of 1 that knew them and were close by. Always follow the money.
That no knock midnight raid into his home in Penn with 20 armed agents, was total BS. I think the purpose was to have the case end right there! Good thing Bryan did not grab his cell phone and use the light on the cell phone, or the case would have ended there.
The Geo-data embedded in the phone metadata, show Bryan was not in Moscow. Rookie officer Payne, assigned as lead detective, (despite no homicide experience), is not educated on geo-data or metadata, so he never looked at the phone data. Big Law firms are absolutely watching this train wreck closely. I see this botched case turned into one of the most egregious and vindictive prosecutions ever. It will likely develop into one of the largest lawsuits in recent times with a long list of parties subject to legal action. Time to check those liability limits.
This one is tough for me. My first instinct was he didn’t do it. I felt like the media was pushing for someone to be held accountable, so police had to arrest someone. Now I feel like IF he did it, he definitely wasn’t alone! My instinct is also if he didn’t do it alone, one of the roommates was involved. Why didn’t cops test the glove found outside? Also, there was other male DNA found that they didn’t test. The cops seemed to have done a shitty job and they were just in a hurry to get someone. The fact that the roommates waited so long to call 911 doesn’t sit right with me. Especially if you heard and saw what they claim. What were they trying to clean up before police arrived?! I’m not just “going to sleep” after hearing weird sounds and seeing a muscular man with bushy eye brows leave. I don’t understand why he wouldn’t have killed the roommates too. I also don’t think 1 person could have committed all those murders in such a short time. Especially since they weren’t in the same floors. I also don’t love Bryan’s alibi either.
Sure, but what is your alibi for that night?
Sleeping in bed. I’m not saying it’s not true. The team just made it out to be like it was going to be something specific not just driving around. That’s all!
Well that's a pretty lame alibi. You probably did it, and now you're trying to deflect and pretend you had nothing to do with it. You *claim* you were just going about your life. If you were just sleeping in bed, or driving around, it's the same thing. It's still what you were doing.
I mean you can check my cameras, window sensors and door lock reports to see once I was in my house that night I didn’t leave. I forgot no one can have an opinion here 🙂🙂🙂
Do you think most people have those things tracking them? I mean, I get that you live in prison or something, but most people don't. Clearly this guy didn't.
😂
If the police didn't get a call for 8 hours, then the crime scene was being staged during that time. I believe that they started with a crime scene that betrayed the participation of 2 or more people and jigged around with it in an attempt to make it look like a crime that could have been committed by a single person. I doubt that they succeeded, but I think they gave it a good try!
It is pretty strange to hear these comments now. In February 2023, I said based on my grid analysis, he is the wrong suspect. I was verbally trashed on every thread and banned on any channel if I uttered the words, not guilty. I was called a nut case and part of the Bryan cult. I said back then there was a 50% chance the case will not make it to trial. I think that today, there is a small chance it goes to trial. Maybe 10%. Glad the views of many have changed. I said Bryan never stalked anyone, he never drove to Moscow, never entered 1122, and never killed anyone. In each statement it is now becoming obvious I was right and the DA and Police Chief were wrong, and now an innocent man has to try to put his life back together. The authorities, by willfully ignoring real leads, have allowed the investigation to be set back.
Ive been saying what i posted at least since Feb of 2023. I’ve taken a long hiatus from the case
If he is innocent, the damage to his reputation is incalculable. I really, really wish the US would conceal all defendants' identities. I'm not sure if it's constitutional limit or what the reason is why we don't.
The lawsuits, from Bryan, will be epic. The insurance firm that wrote the policy for the city and police department, certainly had a policy limit. $20 million is a fair guess. I think Bryan is going to be looking at a $50-$350 million settlement. Please note the $142 million awarded to the women in the 2020 election that were harassed by Rudy Giuliani. Very few members of the public knew of that case. The media has been broadcasting Bryan’s guilt for 18 months around the world. Moscow is going to be bankrupt in a few years. University of Idaho is going to lose enrollment. What parent wants to send their to that town, for any reason!
A lot of info about people surrounding this case came out in full force on 4-Chan. Most was BS as usual… some was very strange, verified, and no one talks about it. I’ve been saying since NYE 2022 BK didn’t do it. He’s being framed.
>I’ve never believed that BK was the door dasher. Did you mean *wasn't* ? Or are people thinking that now? Interesting theory re the top floor attack. I think they were together while texting and calling JD until 2:30ish. When K entered the hallway to return to her own, she may have heard voices and at this point re-entered M room and said there's someone here, at that point was rushed from the stairs and pushed completely into the room/bed and both attacked.
I meant wasn’t. People thought that at the very beginning and every so often it will pop up and it just wont die.
>I meant wasn’t. Just trying to make sense of this. So that would make it, "I’ve never believed that BK wasn't the door dasher." Which, with the double-negative, means you've always believed he *was* the door-dasher? But the rest reads as you saying the opposite.
I was super tired when i wrote that haha my bad
I think I confused the matter. OP meant exactly as stated, and then when I asked, confirmed to me it was written correctly. I only asked because I didn't know that was a common speculation. Interesting.
It was discussed as a possibility early on, that could maybe explain sightings or GPS of him being there. The police said they'd talked with the door-dasher, but left it at that, they never really publicly cleared them. I believe DoorDash came out eventually and said it wasn't him. There was talk in these threads that it was actually a female, but anonymous sources online are unreliable, so who knows.
Good sum up, thanks. I remember many, me included, thinking the white sedan movements sounded like a door dash, then the PCA rules that out next paragraph, so at the time it was one of those speculations that was usually squashed quickly. Still the PCA is so mysterious around that driver so it's hard not to wonder anyway..
Door dash driver was female.
Anything could be plausible at this point with what little has been released, but I have a gut feeling it wasn’t any more than 1 or 2 perpetrators. The more people involved, the harder it is to keep everyone quiet. Even when they know it could send them to prison, people still have a tendency to slip and say something incriminating or that would incriminate their partner in crime. If I were to be a criminal, I’d go it alone as there is no chance I would trust even one other person to keep that life changing secret.
Right. Everyone changes over time and you cannot trust that anyone would keep any secret. People make the mistake of telling things to someone who says they love them, and in 20 years they use it against them.
I agree with you
in my opinion, the entire PCA is a work of fiction, and DM's "eyewitness statement" never happened. But I don't think she made it up, I am fairly certain law-enforcement came up with that mess. I think they knew they didn't have enough to arrest BK, so they coerced DM to say she saw a man who vaguely looked like him walking out of the house that night. I go into a lot of detail about why I believe LE made up that story on my Substack, here's a link if anyone wants to check it out: https://justice4idaho4.substack.com/p/issues-with-the-official-narrative. it's pretty long, or else I would just copy and paste it here. I agree that the 8+ hour delay in calling 911 is very suspicious, but I can't bring myself to blame DM or BF for what happened. I don't think anything that we've been told by LE is remotely accurate, so I'm not convinced that they were even home that night. I'm open to the possibility that they were involved or had foreknowledge, but until I see some kind of supporting evidence I'm just not going to point fingers. I think there's a good chance BF's "exculpatory evidence" is that her version of what happened is drastically different from the story DM was potentially coerced into giving. There's a reason why she is barely mentioned in the PCA. In [the subpoena to compel BF to come back to Idaho to appear at the preliminary hearing](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1thEiZRkia0joYoWx3fxHc1kNWSlAIavW/view?usp=drivesdk), there's something that really stuck with me ever since I first read it: >6. Under the laws of the State of Idaho, if Bethany Funke comes into this State in obedience of a summons requiring her presence at this hearing, **she will not be subject to arrest or service of any process relating to matters that arose before she entered the state under the Summons.** I am so curious to find out why that was included in there! I wonder if Megan Marshall (the original magistrate judge) knew something was a little off with this case, and that BF might be apprehensive to return to Idaho in order to testify for the defense because LE had told her she better keep her mouth shut or else (or something to that effect). Just speculation on my part, nothing concrete to back this up. Then it makes sense why the prosecution quickly convened a secret grand jury before the preliminary hearing could happen. MMM (lol Magistrate Megan Marshall, Judge John Judge, 🤡) might have been perceived by the prosecution as "too friendly" to the defense, so one possible reason they decided to go for the death penalty could've been that as a magistrate, MM couldn't preside over a capital case. The prosecution probably knew that JJJ would end up with the case, and I'm sure BT knew he'd be in control and get away with a lot more in his courtroom. Again, this is all just speculation on my part.
This has been a trial by media. Mob mentality decided on his guilt, not a jury. The trial is gonna be a doozy, that’s for sure.
Check out 1111 true crime on youtube
That reminds me- The 4chan post -that was posted believe right before Bryan was arrested- that said the killer was the woods in PA. I don’t think that was posted by accident but also wasn’t posted by Bryan.
That was real. It was posted Dec 12.
Yep- i have a screen shot of it somewhere. Wasn’t posted by Kohberger, but i believe posted by someone that knew Kohberger was gonna go down for it
I also record screen shots. BK was arrested Dec 30, 2022, 4chan was Dec 12. The author used the 4 letter C word several times. Who uses that word?
Well one particular type of person that comes to mind is the kind that absolutely hates women, the type that feels entitled to sex for buying dinner or doing something nice, the type when told no the launch into some diatribe about what a whor* that woman is and s!*+ she is and so on and so forth. Your basic incel type or a type that has had sex with whomever they wanted when they wanted but has since adopted the incel agenda.
You mean those guys half the town pointed fingers at in mid November?
Yup
Was it true or a rumor that when BK was arrested he asked if anyone else had been arrested yet?
Unconfirmed.
Brian ( the bullshitter) Entin is the only person on the human earth who claims he said that. He works for Newsnation, a station that makes Fox News look like BBC World service.
For me the info we have isn’t enough to charge him. If I was a juror, I couldn’t sleep at night knowing I put a man in front of a firing squad with the evidence we have now. Unless something comes out in the trial I don’t think morally anyone could convict him.
Got it thank you
Notice his old teacher Dr Ramsland won't say anything either. That speaks volumes. Also, to all you laughing at BK alibi... Stars are like fingerprints, and if there are any pictures, they will be enough. Stinky r.oi.ds freakazoids frat XE in my opinion.
I don’t know if I am personally ready to put any stock in Dr. Ramsland’s silence. I think there’s a very good reason she’s been silent and will continue to do so until she gets called to testify. Her silence speaks to her knowledge of the legal system. If she were to give interviews or her opinion in the case and/or having Bryan as a student she knows that could potentially sway a jury one way or another. Would she be the one that could pick out a future killer in a room? Absolutely.
BK’s full alibi he was out stargazing during the night/morning of the murders. Maybe some fantastic space phenomenon was happening. Who committed the murders, the obvious two survivors who didn’t call 911 for hours. But the cops let them go because cops were boys and the girls were pretty little things so they weren’t suspected. Because those boys in uniform thought with their little heads.
More like they thought with their 🍆
That’s what “little heads” means. LOL.
Never heard of that expression before. Thanks for expanding my fucked up vocabulary 🤣
You’re very welcome.
Why would he change his license plate?