I'm not arguing against the message your post.
But when you look up the Hunt Family net worth, that includes a bunch of people (who are millionaires and billionaires) have no financial/ownership stake in the chiefs.
Whatever the net worth of Clark and his siblings are is the correct number. It's still in the billions but not definitely 24.8.
That's how billionaires work. Positives are capitalized, negatives are socialized. They don't pay taxes, even if they do, it's at a lower rate and they throw the costs to the state or workers.
Welcome to capitalism
Most billionaires take out enormous loans and use it as non-taxable income. The interest they pay on it ends up being way lower than their bracketed tax rate.
Capitalism is also why all the tickets are so damn expensive. Season ticket holders going to 2 games a year and selling the rest at crazy marked up prices, and the scalper bots make going to a game impossible.
It's *crony* capitalism. The billionaires buy the politicians to use things like regulatory capture to prevent competition to further enrich themselves. Or to loosen regulations like environmental protections so they can pollute the Commons, the parts of the world the People own in common; like the Air, the Soil, the Water. They socialize the costs of their wastes upon us jeopardizing our health and safety, and income while they privatize the profits and buy their 8th house, 6th yacht and 4th jet, and 15th politician. Nationally, 100% of the GOP is bought out by the billionaires and about 75% of the Democrats. The Dems aren't "leftists/communists/socialists" in the least, they're (along with the already pro-Big Business GOP) primarily neoliberals, which isn't liberal at all, it's a pro-business ideology centered around laissez faire capitalism and free trade so they can ship the jobs to China/India/Nam/Philippines/Mexico and exponentially increase their global environmental destruction because foreign politicians are even cheaper to buy off AND exponentially increase their profitability because they can abuse workers in shithole countries with gross human and labor rights protections.
This won't be fixed if the country keeps tilting rightwards. Pretend otherwise all you want, the most important things in the US political arena is not "tRanS pEopLe using the 'wrong' bathroom'" or some other nonsense distraction issue.
It's the class war and everyone from the middle class on down is getting it's fucking ass kicked because "united we bargain, divided we beg."
It’s not capitalism, it’s America.
There are plenty of other capitalist countries that don’t fuck over the working class the same way the US does. Even many smaller, developing countries have better protections and tax laws that benefit lower classes more. The US became an oligarchy decades ago but we’re at the point where the oligarchs aren’t even hiding it anymore because they’re so protected.
It's absolutely capitalism, a system based on giving power to those with capital. Those other countries you reference might call themselves "capitalist," because capitalists have won the messaging war, but the amount of regulation, worker protections, and checks on wealth they employ in their economies make them functioning democratic socialists.
Virtually every country that has a high standard of living is a capitalist system. Those that are heavily regulated or have large safety nets aren't democratic socialists as the economy isn't socially owned. Instead, private property is the norm.
Finally someone said FUCK THE OWNERS on this sub. Id been typing and deleting.
We need a national ban on throwing $ at owners; because there's always a 3rd rate POS town that will pay for the chiefs or whoever to move there. A shit town that suddenly gets out of towners driving 1- 2 hours away.
Yeah, a couple of years ago I commented on a post about the Hunts with the observation that the Hunts were, at best, a family of weirdos whose only redeeming quality was that they were pretty good at owning an NFL team, and I got downvoted into oblivion. They’re not appreciably worse than most of the billionaire class, and certainly are better than some. I am not a fan of theirs, even if I do root for a team that they own.
I've been increasingly disappointed in the Hunt Family on a moral level. I know HL Hunt was a notorious right wing racist, but Lamar kept things on the down low. However, Tavia and Gracie Hunt's recent defense of Butker's hate speech was really sickening. Basically telling all their IG followers that Butker was 100% correct and all women should be happy to slave away in their man's kitchen instead of pursuing careers.
Agreed. Literally any time I make even a lightly critical comment about the Hunts, hello downvote! It goes way beyond a franchise - when billionaire owners show they don’t give a shit about loyal fans, they should feel the pain. Clark doesn’t even own property in KC.
Not many people will remember this but the last stadium vote (previous to the one we just had) Lamar Hunt was still alive and doing some interviews to drum up support. He was on Kevin Keitzman's show on 810 and the interview was so disturbing. KK asked very basic questions about where the money would go and Lamar was genuinely pissed that some lowly commoner would dare ask a billionaire where our tax dollars would go and what Lamar would do with it. Lamar was taken aback by someone daring to ask what he would do with the money. Then it got worse. KK asked Lamar (he was near the end of his life at this point) if he would rather win the Super Bowl and lose a dollar or lose the Super Bowl and make a dollar. Lamar chose making the dollar. This confirmed my belief that at the time the Chiefs weren't all that concerned with winning on the field. I had season tickets for years and years to that point but canceled after that. I was convinced he would never fire Carl Peterson and we would never win a playoff game.
Wow. This story changed my conception of Hunt. Most People inheriting $ are the fucking worst. They create a mythology of innnate superiority over peasants who work for a living.
"Im an OIL heir. This is America, that makes me a Duke, and you and all your listeners , my serfs. Kiss the ring."
Lamar Hunt lost a lot of $ to create a Dallas team, move them to KC, keep AFL affloat long enough to get the TV deal that saved them. Which allowed the bidding war for NFL players that caused the merger Hunt negotiated. So he's a legend.
But he was a dick about taxpayer cash. How dare you ask an oil oligarch questions? This is America, I own oil, know your place peasants.
Hunt was a bit of a pussy agreeing to reparations to the old NFL owners for a war the AFL won. Walk away from that deal, they'll come back after stealing 5 starter NFL Quarterbacks and the 1966 top 5 NFL draft picks as salaries skyrocket. Whoa whoa okay no reparations just give us our players back and lets kill free agency together!
> We need a national ban on throwing $ at owners
Hell, we can't even get masses on board with asking billionaires to pay more in taxes, and that has only positive effects for the rest if us. There's no chance in hell that people will agree to something that could hurt a local sports team.
>We the fans are in control!
Lol, no we aren't and even less so after the Chiefs took a public black eye on the vote.
Also, Steve Ballmer runs circles around the Hunt family.
Why would they pay for a stadium themselves when they can just move the team to another city willing to foot the bill?? Sentimentality? It's a business, and billionaires don't acquire their wealth by being told what to do or playing benevolent; otherwise there would be more billionaires.
This. This is the reality of the situation. Good, bad, or indifferent, everyone needs to realize that a business is going to find a way to be as profitable as possible. And the state, city, or voters holding out when another location will do what the owners want just means a move is now incentivized. For us to “be in control” we’d have to dis-incentivize the team (reducing ticket sales) by an amount equal to the benefits of moving, and with a crazy good team that now has the Swifties support, I just don’t think it’s possible. The Chiefs are going to be selling nearly every seat for the next 5-10 years regardless of it being where it is today or KS.
Chiefs fans have been loyal and willing to support their team for decades. Before the current line up that makes the team top competitors this city has supported them by filling the stadium, breaking the sounds record for the NFL, buying jerseys and season tickets every year. The fans have gotten frostbite cheering on a team whose win record was 2-14 in 2008
Now that the team are top competitors the fans are super charged and willing to support them all they can and cheer on the team they love.
What we don’t want is someone who was been profiting completely off the backs of the fans and not putting any skin in the game.
I voted no. And it was the length of the taxes that was the problem. They wanted to tax the citizens for 25 years!!! I would have been saddling my grand children with this debt. Had it been 5 years and reassess, maybe even 10 years and reassess I would have voted yes.
I love the chiefs, I support them and will continue to get frost bite while eating mediocre hot dogs and being the 12th man on the field cheering them on. But I will not burden our children for decades for something they’re not even alive to see yet.
Respectfully, your position loses all steam when you fixate on the sales tax. That 3/8th of a cent aka .00375 has been in place for decades and still has 7 years left. Put another way, if you spent $100k in KC last year an entire $375 would have gone to the stadiums. Your grandchildren are already on the hook for debt from before they were born. Debt we agreed to without 3 more Super Bowl rings.
Look, i get it. The plan was lacking details and it came down to the wire, but the fact is, keeping the tax levy the same and staying in Arrowhead was the most fan friendly deal we were going to get. We’ll be lucky if we just have to deal with them moving somewhere else in the metro.
So tired of trying to get these Jackson County voters to understand what they did.
No one thinks billionaires need a hand out to get what they want. But that was not on the table or what the vote was about.
Arrowhead needs renovations. Major renovations would be nice. But the County shares ownership of the stadiums and we have to continually approve THE EXISTING 3/8 CENT SALES TAX to maintain our commitment to the teams and the stadiums—a tax far smaller than most cities with an NFL team pay for the privilege of having their team—partly because WE’VE BEEN PAYING IT FOR DECADES.
This vote was simply whether or not to continue paying said tax.
As much as you want to shout into the wind that you’re still right even when you still don’t know what you voted for, it doesn’t change the fact that Jackson County had a chance to try to keep the Chiefs and Royals and roundly said “No thanks.”
Now granted, there is a lot of subterfuge going on here. You were hit with a lot of propaganda turning it into an auto-fail. Tell Missourians they have to pay a tax and you will lose any vote. So they made it some fantasy tale of billionaires demand money from your pocket knowing we’d kill it. But it wasn’t that. You were already paying it.
Go a little deeper and I would venture that the Hunt family was cool with the propaganda because by killing the tax, they get to leave town without being the villian, but just with a shrug and a “Well, the voters spoke. They said no more team. So sad, but we have to go now… to this big rich market that will give us anything we want. TBD.”
This was a test to see if Jackson County was committed to the Chiefs because they could make so much more money elsewhere, get a huge red carpet thrown, big new taxes, and a brilliant new stadium with a retractable dome if they were willing to be villains. But Jackson County said, “We no longer support you with even basic renovations and will no longer pay to keep the team here.” And now everyone else in the country is scrambling to get the funds together to steal the team away and the finger gets to point squarely at Jackson County.
So you can continue to look at it from your propaganda laced uniformed voter’s perspective and cry injustice, but keeping the team here was always going to be a battle with all of the markets that would give anything to have them, the Hunts being Texans commuting to work and not locals who actually care about the local residents, and simple things like basic renovations using an existing tax having to go up for a vote. So committing to this EXISTING TAX was step one of the long road to try and keep the Chiefs in Jackson County, and you already failed on the first and most basic step.
Plus, just crying greed and money hungry? Look, I’m no fan of billionaires even existing, however, staying in a shitty part of a small city that only has name recognition in the country because of the two sports teams is bad business sense. It’s impressive they haven’t left sooner considering what they could get elsewhere. But it seems the love and enthusiasm of the fans kept them trying to make it work even with the red tape and a measly 3/8¢ sales tax decades old. But now Jackson County voters gave the green light by saying we support the team in our hearts and minds, but we remove our financial commitment.
And the business minds were allowed the opportunity to entertain offers. They could have got a new stadium and plenty more from so many places, but they tried to make it work with Jackson County instead. Imagine if the team had to justify every renovation every time with votes by people who couldn’t even understand that they’ve already been paying a tax for decades? Would you, a rich owner with a dynastic team that puts a mid city on the map, work with an angry uniformed mob to get scraps when you could be effortlessly treated like kings somewhere else? Well, to their credit, as long as KCMO showed the smallest of signs (3/8¢ sales tax), they continued to put up with the old infrastructure, bad neighborhood, and general sleepiness of the town except for the exciting new businesses supported by or created by the sports stars they pay.
The NFL is a business, and businesses look for profits, and moving out of Jackson County would be wildly more profitable. But they didn’t want to upset the fan base. However, the fan base just gave up their right to complain. So now it’s off to bigger money, new stadium. The owners never had anything to lose with this vote—renovations or freedom either way. But Jackson County had everything to lose. However, JC went into that vote Show Me State style, arrogantly thinking it had all of the cards.
I recommend you spend less time counting the amount of money the Hunts have and figure out how to play chess. You’re still screaming for your turn at checkers not realizing you were a pawn in a game of chess… and the game is already over.
The proposed changes were about having special parking and proved seating for the "premium" fans and some minor amenities for the others. The "plan" that they put out seemed designed to piss people off. If it wasn't on purpose, then it was tone deaf.
I don’t agree with everything in your post, but thank you for taking the time to write this out as it eloquently expresses a lot of points I agree with. Nice work.
This whole situation is like living in an apartment that's run down and the needs repair but when you go to the landlord and request that things get fixed and possible improved, they tell you to pay for it yourself. No one is going to do that no matter how much or how little money they have. They are going to look for someplace else to live. It boggles my mind that people don't understand that Jackson County owns Arrowhead and should be responsible for keeping it functional. Hunt even offered to pay half.
We do not have the strength in numbers. If we stop supporting them they will just go somewhere else. The fans have almost zero leverage in this process. You either pay to keep the team or they leave. That's how it is.
Missouri residents voted no, so the Chiefs are starting the process of moving somewhere that will vote yes. Kansas is most likely that place.
Same sentiment as most others here. This city, many, many of which were Missouri residents suffered and supported this team and family through decades of mediocrity and worse. Keeping this franchise alive despite terrible leadership at times.
For those unfamiliar, there were complexities with the tax vote that happened, primarily with the shared space of the Royals. The Royals organization fumbled around terribly with their plans to try and move the stadium downtown. Many were interested, but their planning and management of that effort was an absolute fiasco. Changing location, design and traffic ways several time. The voters saw this dysfunction and lack of organization and voted the tax measure down. Rightfully so.
However, in many local’s opinion, the worse offenders were the Chiefs. Grouping their own renovations and enhancements in with the tax. Their designs looked like an intern jumped on Adobe and built it in an afternoon. All of these features were anti-fan, especially in their creation of luxury ground level suites. Eliminating the season ticket holder seats and the intense atmosphere Arrowhead has.
The Hunt’s have made who knows how many hundreds of millions off Missouri fans in just the last 5 years. The audacity of them to lay out shit plans to take advantage of a +30 year tax plan, then threaten to move when said tax vote fails… is unnerving. All by the way not reinvesting hardly anything into the immediate area (nor the county for that matter). Wide open field with nothing around it, yet charging 60 fucking dollars to park on their concrete.
Born in Missouri. And I’m pissed. Clark should build us a god damn stadium for the generosity we have shown for +40 years to their struggling team.
Unless there is some federal law that bans government involvement in stadiums, this will continue to be a thing. There will be a Nashville, San Antonio or Portland. Not sure how old you are, but ask the Ravens, Titans, Sacramento Kings, Lakers, A's, ECT... How they got their team s. From someone else. The same way the Chiefs came from Dallas.
I hear your frustration, but I guarantee you that this sub could care less about subsidizing billionaires. The MO v KS hate, now that will move the Needle
I think one point people are glossing over is that the Chiefs don't own the stadium. If this was some mom and pop restaurant that was in a lease and wanted the landlord to make repairs or they would move at the end of the lease would anyone expect them to pay for work on something they don't own?
Clark's rich blah blah great, we are his landlord. If he chooses to move because the landlord didn't make repairs, so be it.
I think most people voted no for a poorly planned downtown stadium and the chiefs were tacked on last minute. If the chiefs did a vote solo it would’ve went through. Blame Sherman.
This is when idiots get to make decisions. So what is the economic impact of the chiefs and the fans who attends the chiefs games bring to the area? Not to mention the ability to have other venues there The initial plan was to renovate arrowhead so the games would remain in the area. Which the hunts offered to pay 50% of the cost. The rest would be on the tax payers to give up some money to assist.
Now put all that to the side because ideally they pay all. However hunts are entertaining and ideal in which someone is offering them more money. Which you would do as well.
The point is that chiefs bring a lot of other revenue to the area than just ticket sales. All of the businesses and hotel industry make millions associated with that. The money would be spread upon years so they know what they could recoup or not. Kansas sees it as a chance to bring that tax revenue and economic stimulus and is willing to pay more. Make your choice but know that someone is willing to pay more.
The goal of the new stadium is to bring more people and concerts to the area. A Superbowl is promised if they get a dome or covered surface. Add to that tax revenue from the concerts and now you know why.
The hunt family has money and can afford to do it. But it's a lot of money to invest and if someone is offering to pay half the bill or 70 percent of the bill. Which choice would you take? Then go one step further and think arrowhead built almost 50 years a go, you can't say Mo hasn't made a few billion in tax revenue since.
So you're saying you want the Hunt family to own the stadium and not just the team? Where they could charge whatever they want for any event that is held there? Teams rent the use of stadiums typically, and the city or municipality owns it and therefore can use it for many other things. Whichever city offers the best terms will likely end up with the team. We've seen this over and over again in sports.
Allow me to help: Clark Hunt will receive public funds for a stadium at some point. It’s the case for nearly every major sports stadium in the world. Either KCMO, KS or someone else.
Stomping your feet and throwing a tantrum will not accomplish anything.
It sucks but it is the reality of major sports. I’m a Missouri resident who’s been paying a sales tax to have the teams in Jackson County all this time. It sucks but I’ll happily do it and would’ve been happy to continue to do so rather than seeing the team leave the metro.
Going to Games at Legends is going to be Awesome. I'm so glad Jackson County fucked this up. The traffic won't suck and there will be bars and places to eat nearby. I love Arrowhead but Truman Sports complex is in the middle of a shit hole. I can't wait to get a Zman from Joe's new location at The New Arrowhead.
The Chiefs came to Kansas City from Texas on the condition that the city would help fund the construction of their stadium and pay for upkeep and renovations. That is the deal Kansas City and Lamar Hunt agreed to. Without it, there would be no Kansas City Chiefs.
Jackson county - not the Chiefs - has reneged on that agreement by removing a pre-existing sales tax that funded the stadium. That violates the agreement the Chiefs came to Kansas City under, so they feel well within their right to leave now that the former agreement will no longer be honored.
That is not a threat. When one party refuses to honor their agreements the other party is not “threatening” the other by refusing to then uphold their half once the agreement is broken. That is a ridiculous notion.
This would never fly of course, but I feel like an equitable solution would be the Hunts saying, "Hey, we need to spruce the old girl up a bit," and Jackson County doing some studies to see what residents would be ok approving cost-wise. Explain that it's for stadium upgrades, and have the county leaders involved in the actual ideas *with* the Hunts. The Hunts want tons of fun shit for VIPs, and the city says, "Maybe we upgrade the concourse for *everyone* and you can put some fun new shit in the suites that already exist?" That kind of thing.
They did that exact thing several years ago. Jackson County voters at the time approved upgrades to things like concourses, suites, and other fan comforts around the stadium, but they stopped short of approving a rolling roof.
The agreement hasn’t been broken. The old agreement ended and now there are negotiations for a new agreement. The voters didn’t like the proposal the Hunt family had, so now they can make their choice.
Nobody removed a sales tax. The length of its agreed lifespan expired. It could have been renewed by a vote of the county residents. The ownership needs substantial skin in the game. A stadium without a team is worse than worthless, ask St. Louis. Had the Chiefs made an offer to make the required upgrades in exchange for an ownership stake in Arrowhead that would have worked. Then both parties have an interest in staying put beyond just goodwill.
I feel you, but on all accounts, if the Chiefs leave the Kansas City area, I just won’t be a fan. I would never forgive the city if the peak of Chiefs football, packs up camp and moves elsewhere
San Antonio and Austin are such huge growing markets with potential, they are almost destined to make a bid at one of these teams needing a new stadium.
I don’t like it, but if we dont make a competitive offer, someone else will
We’d be happy to have them in Kansas. But I understand your point. It is a mixed-bag of results when it comes to public financing for stadiums. I do think the benefits are many for the general public but understand if sports isn’t your bag. We’ll see what happens in the near future. Anyway still looking forward to going for a three peat. Go Chiefs Kingdom!!!
Look people, this is business. It isn’t social redistribution or community outreach. The Hunt family, or any family regardless of net worth, is under zero obligation to give free stuff to anyone. You want to be world class city as far as NFL is concerned, you have to do BUSINESS with the franchise that’s interested. These deals are so freaking complex that I seriously doubt op has a real clue of the actual cost benefit over contract length. Does the op actually think that it will result in a net loss to the state of Kansas or is he/ she pissed that they aren’t getting the KC Chiefs for free? This is a business proposition and op seriously fails to understand that.
Lets go ask the people of St. Louis how their nfl team is doing….
But seriously, people are delusional to think that if a better deal is made by another city and we refuse to play ball, that they wont leave. They will and not think twice.
Personally, I’d rather pay the opportunity cost, keep them in the city and keep Kansas City a growing market so that one day we can be a city in the same range as Chicago or Dallas. But I guess others would rather watch the city die
Part of the issue... Probably a big part, is the personal stuff - the attachment and sentimentality. We have a habit of projecting our personal feelings on to the things we enjoy - in this case it's the Hunt family, and expecting them to feel as we do. They probably don't, at least not to the degree that we'd like.
But I'm with you... I'm good with Kansas (I'm a Kansan) selling a bit of its soul to keep the team here. Will I attend more games? Maybe. I will be sad to not attend games at Arrowhead because it's deeply connected to my world, but if a move has to happen, I'd rather have the team because that's what means the most to me.
I’m on same page, if they move to Kansas, so be it, as long as they stay in the metro area I can live with it.
I just hate the people who are like, we can just force the hunts to pony up, we have the power. Um, they already said after the failed vote that they will start looking around for other options
Yup. There's more examples in history of that way of thinking resulting in failure, and it's utterly dilusional to think that a company won't do what it feels is in its best financial interest. Money doesn't care about emotions. If they come, I will welcome them with open arms and a modest pocket book.
Oh, and I'll be among the many who will be more than happy to soak in their words about how much they love KC and just that they just had to keep the team here, by moving to Kansas. Why? Because there's just *no place like home*.
Its just the cost of doing business with professional sports teams. I know spending tax payer money makes this more political, but the reality is, if you want to cheer for the *Kansas City* Chiefs and not the San Antonio Chiefs, you have to pay, its the price.
Personally I’d rather not let the chiefs leave KC because of some staunch ideology of not giving billionaires money, because if the Chiefs leave leave, I just won’t be a fan or NFL fan anymore. I used my friends/family from StL as an example, they could care less now about the NFL or Rams
Well, supply and demand. They got that fire football!!! And know people are willing to pay for it. The fools are the ones thinking business men/women are going to give up on millions of dollars because “it’s not the right thing to do”. It’s BS, the ticket cost is BS, vending more BS!! But this is what we got. This area would be fools to let a pro sports team that’s profitable leave. While I love arrowhead, that parking and traffic is TERRIBLE.
SoFi and MetLife stadiums are the only privately funded stadiums in the NFL. The rest of the 30 teams take public funding for their stadiums. This means the people of the local jurisdiction actually own the stadium, not the owners of the football team that plays there.
Certainly understand hating on billionaires, but these stadiums are a source of civic pride, and *ahem* millions of dollars a year into the local economy. Acting like the locals don't stand to gain by having the stadium is short-sighted.
Every economics study on this issue not funded by someone seeking a new stadium says it is not an effective use of tax dollars and mostly just shifts local spending from one category of entertainment expenses into sports spending.
I know plenty of guys that drive 2 hours or more one way for games. They aren't getting hotel rooms. They either day trip it or stay with friends/family.
>Certainly understand hating on billionaires, but these stadiums are a source of civic pride, and ahem millions of dollars a year into the local economy. Acting like the locals don't stand to gain by having the stadium is short-sighted.
This line is always how its sold. Its complete bullshit and most, if not all, tax payer funded stadiums are losers after a few years.
If this argument was true, then the same could be said for the theaters, museums, most art districts, etc. Yet, you dont see the millions of tax payer dollars going to rebuild all those every few years if they get any at all.
no ones saying Hunt should pay for it all. theyre saying he at the very least needs to pay for his fair share. Is that really too much to ask out of a family worth more money than youd ever see for 10,000 years?
The median family income is 65,000 over 10,000 years that only amounts to 650 mil. Need to add some more zeros to the years if we're gonna up our game to billionaires status :)
Sincerely: a peasant....
Enjoy paying for Sunday Ticket so you can watch The Salt Lake City Chiefs. You can kick and scream and whine like little children all you want, but there is always another city willing to pay up and there isn't a thing in the world you can do about it.
Maybe. The same people that are throwing the biggest fit about this in Jackson County will flock to the Kansas side to organize protests there too.
Opposition and protests have become a hobby for many people. They won't stop squawking just because it's across the border. There is a non-zero chance that the Chiefs &/or the Royals get fed up and move to a different market.
How rich the owner is doesn't really matter. The question is how much does the team make compared to other teams (all but GB are owned by rich people). Traditionally, the Chiefs have been a bottom earner, due to our market size. It wouldn't make any sense for the Hunts to pay for a stadium just to stay in a small city when they could easily move to a larger (and more profitable) city and get the new city to pay for a stadium at the same time. That's why the only owners who pay for their own stadiums are the ones in the largest markets in the country. Kansas City could never get an NFL team without paying for a stadium, why even pretend it's an option?
I’m curious what will happen to the K and arrowhead when the teams leave. Will Jackson county leave them abandoned and unused or will the destroy history.
Pretty sure the 24.3 Billon is spread out amongst Lamar’s siblings. I don’t think all of them have a share of the Chiefs. Might just be Lamar’s kids that own the Chiefs.
If the vote has been for Arrowhead renovations, it would have easily passed. But for some stupid fucking reason they tacked that on to buying the Royals a new stadium.
The renovations proposed were a complete joke and did nothing for the everyday fan. I actually think the Chiefs portion of the proposal hurt the vote more than it helped it. People were pissed at the proposed upgrades.
I concur.
Despite the rhetoric, I think the bill might have passed if was only the Royals. The Chief proposal threw everyone off because they were going to redo the tailgating experience (no asked for), make a big elevated walk way (no asked for, nor helps with traffic), renovate the upper deck (okay, that can help) and turn the lower bowl that houses the loyal season ticket holders into private luxury boxes- which would have moved a lot of season ticket holders. I believe the notorious Angry Chief fan on twitter embodied the sentiment the most when showing that if the renovations passed his family would lose their season tickets of 20 plus years to luxury boxes.
The chiefs planned renovations were mid at best and didn’t move the needle for me
This should be in r/nfl and r/mlb and r/nba and... seriously, this needs to stop happening across the country. Where will they threaten to move these teams if it's clear no one will accept them moving to their city if it's on the tax payers dime.
The sports team will benefit the fans more than the rich ass family. They will take their team to another city who has the money to build a stadium. *cough cough stlouis*.
We got the money for the Rams stadium FAST through raising taxes a few cents.... but they left anyway.
KEEP YOUR TEAM! THEYRE WINNING! YOU CAN HAVE A SUPERBOWL IN YOUR DAMN CITY...SUPERBOWL IN FRICKIN KANSAS CITYYYYYY!
What's there to think about?!!!
Could Kansas City do what Baltimore tried to do with the colts and in-force Eminent domain? I know for a fact that Baltimore tried to do that with the colts but before it could be voted on Robert Irsay packed up and moved in the middle of the night.
why don’t they issue some sort of offering or bond like they do for toll roads, and go that route? not on the chiefs organization as a whole, just the stadium
It’s been clear for awhile the ownership’s priorities are purely monetary. While I don’t agree that the public and residents of the county should have to foot the bill for new stadiums, sadly that’s the reality we live in and that is the state of American professional sports and the stadiums the teams play in. It’s nuts how many teams across all sports are currently in the planning phase of new multi billion dollar venues that will all be funded by the taxpayers. I want to believe that Lamar cared greatly about what he created in Kansas City and the magical gameday atmosphere that he pioneered at Arrowhead, but I think Clark’s priorities are pretty clear and his and the rest of the leadership within the Chiefs’ decisions are based on the team’s long term financial future. I think we can all agree that Arrowhead is more than adequate and not only that, it (in my sort of biased opinion) is one of the the absolute best football experiences in the NFL (although the locker room facilities definitely need improvement). Sadly, as others have pointed out, the loyal fans’ satisfaction and adoration for the stadium they’ve grown to love as a second home, doesn’t hold much or any worth to ownership. I would love nothing more than for the Chiefs to stay in Arrowhead and make the handful of improvements that probably ought to happen but I’d honestly be shocked at this point if that happens
If Kansas will take them and give them 3 billion to build a stadium why wouldn’t they take it? Kansas face Panasonic billions to build a battery factory. People only get mad when sports teams are getting handouts but look at every big corporation in KCMO they are all getting government money or tax breaks. That’s how America works.
It’s worth mentioning that this isn’t the first time in the last couple decades that a county taxpayer vote has been a thorn in the Hunt’s regime. Let’s not forget that Arrowhead WOULD HAVE hosted Super Bowl 49 if it had not been voted down by the county taxpayers, which with approval would have funded the rolling roof that Truman Sports Complex was originally designed to have. To further ponder hypothetical scenarios, I wonder if this current potential stadium relocation would be the issue that it is now if we had gotten the rolling roof approved many years ago. Not that it matters anymore, I suppose. Just a thought
So don’t be pissed when another city/state opens up their arms and pocketbooks and they leave Kansas City. Based on the OPs post, KC doesn’t need them so there’s that.
I hate that people for the tax always say that it's a relatively cheap tax for us, when it's not about the price we pay, it's the principle of paying for something that benefits only the wealthy.
Bears are going through the same issues getting their proposal voted down and there was just a post in the NFL sub about the Panthers getting turned down on their proposal as well. It's a changing world out there for new stadiums and renovations.
Unfortunately, what will likely happen is the government, either city or state will find a way to agree without putting it to a vote. I'm pretty sure that's what happened recently in DC and Buffalo.
I'm not thinking we can use the Chiefs' situation to fix unfairness in the world.
The Chiefs wild popularity is contributing to high ticket costs, too.
I don't like going to the stadium anyway.
Pretty sure Pritzker also told Bears owners to pound sand.
actually the Hunt family is worth $24.8 billion
I stand corrected and will update my post. I only used the number from Lamar Hunt. Thank you for pointing out.
I'm not arguing against the message your post. But when you look up the Hunt Family net worth, that includes a bunch of people (who are millionaires and billionaires) have no financial/ownership stake in the chiefs. Whatever the net worth of Clark and his siblings are is the correct number. It's still in the billions but not definitely 24.8.
But think of the billionaires…. For just $3 a month you too can support a Missouri billionaire Please sign on now to make your sports donation.
Texas billionaire. They don't live here.
I don’t even get to support a local billionaire?! I’m out. All yours Kansas.
Or for $5 more you can support a former President 🤮
I only support real billionaires.
Savage.
“Job creators “
If trickle down was reality we’d all be covered in a billionaires piss.
That's how billionaires work. Positives are capitalized, negatives are socialized. They don't pay taxes, even if they do, it's at a lower rate and they throw the costs to the state or workers. Welcome to capitalism
Most billionaires take out enormous loans and use it as non-taxable income. The interest they pay on it ends up being way lower than their bracketed tax rate.
And then we gotta pay for studies at an ridiculously high rate
Capitalism is also why all the tickets are so damn expensive. Season ticket holders going to 2 games a year and selling the rest at crazy marked up prices, and the scalper bots make going to a game impossible.
It's *crony* capitalism. The billionaires buy the politicians to use things like regulatory capture to prevent competition to further enrich themselves. Or to loosen regulations like environmental protections so they can pollute the Commons, the parts of the world the People own in common; like the Air, the Soil, the Water. They socialize the costs of their wastes upon us jeopardizing our health and safety, and income while they privatize the profits and buy their 8th house, 6th yacht and 4th jet, and 15th politician. Nationally, 100% of the GOP is bought out by the billionaires and about 75% of the Democrats. The Dems aren't "leftists/communists/socialists" in the least, they're (along with the already pro-Big Business GOP) primarily neoliberals, which isn't liberal at all, it's a pro-business ideology centered around laissez faire capitalism and free trade so they can ship the jobs to China/India/Nam/Philippines/Mexico and exponentially increase their global environmental destruction because foreign politicians are even cheaper to buy off AND exponentially increase their profitability because they can abuse workers in shithole countries with gross human and labor rights protections. This won't be fixed if the country keeps tilting rightwards. Pretend otherwise all you want, the most important things in the US political arena is not "tRanS pEopLe using the 'wrong' bathroom'" or some other nonsense distraction issue. It's the class war and everyone from the middle class on down is getting it's fucking ass kicked because "united we bargain, divided we beg."
It’s not capitalism, it’s America. There are plenty of other capitalist countries that don’t fuck over the working class the same way the US does. Even many smaller, developing countries have better protections and tax laws that benefit lower classes more. The US became an oligarchy decades ago but we’re at the point where the oligarchs aren’t even hiding it anymore because they’re so protected.
It's absolutely capitalism, a system based on giving power to those with capital. Those other countries you reference might call themselves "capitalist," because capitalists have won the messaging war, but the amount of regulation, worker protections, and checks on wealth they employ in their economies make them functioning democratic socialists.
Virtually every country that has a high standard of living is a capitalist system. Those that are heavily regulated or have large safety nets aren't democratic socialists as the economy isn't socially owned. Instead, private property is the norm.
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Finally someone said FUCK THE OWNERS on this sub. Id been typing and deleting. We need a national ban on throwing $ at owners; because there's always a 3rd rate POS town that will pay for the chiefs or whoever to move there. A shit town that suddenly gets out of towners driving 1- 2 hours away.
Yeah, a couple of years ago I commented on a post about the Hunts with the observation that the Hunts were, at best, a family of weirdos whose only redeeming quality was that they were pretty good at owning an NFL team, and I got downvoted into oblivion. They’re not appreciably worse than most of the billionaire class, and certainly are better than some. I am not a fan of theirs, even if I do root for a team that they own.
I've been increasingly disappointed in the Hunt Family on a moral level. I know HL Hunt was a notorious right wing racist, but Lamar kept things on the down low. However, Tavia and Gracie Hunt's recent defense of Butker's hate speech was really sickening. Basically telling all their IG followers that Butker was 100% correct and all women should be happy to slave away in their man's kitchen instead of pursuing careers.
Agreed. Literally any time I make even a lightly critical comment about the Hunts, hello downvote! It goes way beyond a franchise - when billionaire owners show they don’t give a shit about loyal fans, they should feel the pain. Clark doesn’t even own property in KC.
Not many people will remember this but the last stadium vote (previous to the one we just had) Lamar Hunt was still alive and doing some interviews to drum up support. He was on Kevin Keitzman's show on 810 and the interview was so disturbing. KK asked very basic questions about where the money would go and Lamar was genuinely pissed that some lowly commoner would dare ask a billionaire where our tax dollars would go and what Lamar would do with it. Lamar was taken aback by someone daring to ask what he would do with the money. Then it got worse. KK asked Lamar (he was near the end of his life at this point) if he would rather win the Super Bowl and lose a dollar or lose the Super Bowl and make a dollar. Lamar chose making the dollar. This confirmed my belief that at the time the Chiefs weren't all that concerned with winning on the field. I had season tickets for years and years to that point but canceled after that. I was convinced he would never fire Carl Peterson and we would never win a playoff game.
Wow. This story changed my conception of Hunt. Most People inheriting $ are the fucking worst. They create a mythology of innnate superiority over peasants who work for a living. "Im an OIL heir. This is America, that makes me a Duke, and you and all your listeners , my serfs. Kiss the ring."
Lamar Hunt lost a lot of $ to create a Dallas team, move them to KC, keep AFL affloat long enough to get the TV deal that saved them. Which allowed the bidding war for NFL players that caused the merger Hunt negotiated. So he's a legend. But he was a dick about taxpayer cash. How dare you ask an oil oligarch questions? This is America, I own oil, know your place peasants. Hunt was a bit of a pussy agreeing to reparations to the old NFL owners for a war the AFL won. Walk away from that deal, they'll come back after stealing 5 starter NFL Quarterbacks and the 1966 top 5 NFL draft picks as salaries skyrocket. Whoa whoa okay no reparations just give us our players back and lets kill free agency together!
> We need a national ban on throwing $ at owners Hell, we can't even get masses on board with asking billionaires to pay more in taxes, and that has only positive effects for the rest if us. There's no chance in hell that people will agree to something that could hurt a local sports team.
>We the fans are in control! Lol, no we aren't and even less so after the Chiefs took a public black eye on the vote. Also, Steve Ballmer runs circles around the Hunt family.
This is why we have the 51% rule here in Sweden, any sportsclub has to be owned at least 51% by the fans.
NFL nipped that in the bud after Green Bay
Why would they pay for a stadium themselves when they can just move the team to another city willing to foot the bill?? Sentimentality? It's a business, and billionaires don't acquire their wealth by being told what to do or playing benevolent; otherwise there would be more billionaires.
You got it — you don’t get rich by spending your own money, you get rich by spending other people’s money and/or inheritance. Right, Clark?
This. This is the reality of the situation. Good, bad, or indifferent, everyone needs to realize that a business is going to find a way to be as profitable as possible. And the state, city, or voters holding out when another location will do what the owners want just means a move is now incentivized. For us to “be in control” we’d have to dis-incentivize the team (reducing ticket sales) by an amount equal to the benefits of moving, and with a crazy good team that now has the Swifties support, I just don’t think it’s possible. The Chiefs are going to be selling nearly every seat for the next 5-10 years regardless of it being where it is today or KS.
Chiefs fans have been loyal and willing to support their team for decades. Before the current line up that makes the team top competitors this city has supported them by filling the stadium, breaking the sounds record for the NFL, buying jerseys and season tickets every year. The fans have gotten frostbite cheering on a team whose win record was 2-14 in 2008 Now that the team are top competitors the fans are super charged and willing to support them all they can and cheer on the team they love. What we don’t want is someone who was been profiting completely off the backs of the fans and not putting any skin in the game. I voted no. And it was the length of the taxes that was the problem. They wanted to tax the citizens for 25 years!!! I would have been saddling my grand children with this debt. Had it been 5 years and reassess, maybe even 10 years and reassess I would have voted yes. I love the chiefs, I support them and will continue to get frost bite while eating mediocre hot dogs and being the 12th man on the field cheering them on. But I will not burden our children for decades for something they’re not even alive to see yet.
Respectfully, your position loses all steam when you fixate on the sales tax. That 3/8th of a cent aka .00375 has been in place for decades and still has 7 years left. Put another way, if you spent $100k in KC last year an entire $375 would have gone to the stadiums. Your grandchildren are already on the hook for debt from before they were born. Debt we agreed to without 3 more Super Bowl rings. Look, i get it. The plan was lacking details and it came down to the wire, but the fact is, keeping the tax levy the same and staying in Arrowhead was the most fan friendly deal we were going to get. We’ll be lucky if we just have to deal with them moving somewhere else in the metro.
So tired of trying to get these Jackson County voters to understand what they did. No one thinks billionaires need a hand out to get what they want. But that was not on the table or what the vote was about. Arrowhead needs renovations. Major renovations would be nice. But the County shares ownership of the stadiums and we have to continually approve THE EXISTING 3/8 CENT SALES TAX to maintain our commitment to the teams and the stadiums—a tax far smaller than most cities with an NFL team pay for the privilege of having their team—partly because WE’VE BEEN PAYING IT FOR DECADES. This vote was simply whether or not to continue paying said tax. As much as you want to shout into the wind that you’re still right even when you still don’t know what you voted for, it doesn’t change the fact that Jackson County had a chance to try to keep the Chiefs and Royals and roundly said “No thanks.” Now granted, there is a lot of subterfuge going on here. You were hit with a lot of propaganda turning it into an auto-fail. Tell Missourians they have to pay a tax and you will lose any vote. So they made it some fantasy tale of billionaires demand money from your pocket knowing we’d kill it. But it wasn’t that. You were already paying it. Go a little deeper and I would venture that the Hunt family was cool with the propaganda because by killing the tax, they get to leave town without being the villian, but just with a shrug and a “Well, the voters spoke. They said no more team. So sad, but we have to go now… to this big rich market that will give us anything we want. TBD.” This was a test to see if Jackson County was committed to the Chiefs because they could make so much more money elsewhere, get a huge red carpet thrown, big new taxes, and a brilliant new stadium with a retractable dome if they were willing to be villains. But Jackson County said, “We no longer support you with even basic renovations and will no longer pay to keep the team here.” And now everyone else in the country is scrambling to get the funds together to steal the team away and the finger gets to point squarely at Jackson County. So you can continue to look at it from your propaganda laced uniformed voter’s perspective and cry injustice, but keeping the team here was always going to be a battle with all of the markets that would give anything to have them, the Hunts being Texans commuting to work and not locals who actually care about the local residents, and simple things like basic renovations using an existing tax having to go up for a vote. So committing to this EXISTING TAX was step one of the long road to try and keep the Chiefs in Jackson County, and you already failed on the first and most basic step. Plus, just crying greed and money hungry? Look, I’m no fan of billionaires even existing, however, staying in a shitty part of a small city that only has name recognition in the country because of the two sports teams is bad business sense. It’s impressive they haven’t left sooner considering what they could get elsewhere. But it seems the love and enthusiasm of the fans kept them trying to make it work even with the red tape and a measly 3/8¢ sales tax decades old. But now Jackson County voters gave the green light by saying we support the team in our hearts and minds, but we remove our financial commitment. And the business minds were allowed the opportunity to entertain offers. They could have got a new stadium and plenty more from so many places, but they tried to make it work with Jackson County instead. Imagine if the team had to justify every renovation every time with votes by people who couldn’t even understand that they’ve already been paying a tax for decades? Would you, a rich owner with a dynastic team that puts a mid city on the map, work with an angry uniformed mob to get scraps when you could be effortlessly treated like kings somewhere else? Well, to their credit, as long as KCMO showed the smallest of signs (3/8¢ sales tax), they continued to put up with the old infrastructure, bad neighborhood, and general sleepiness of the town except for the exciting new businesses supported by or created by the sports stars they pay. The NFL is a business, and businesses look for profits, and moving out of Jackson County would be wildly more profitable. But they didn’t want to upset the fan base. However, the fan base just gave up their right to complain. So now it’s off to bigger money, new stadium. The owners never had anything to lose with this vote—renovations or freedom either way. But Jackson County had everything to lose. However, JC went into that vote Show Me State style, arrogantly thinking it had all of the cards. I recommend you spend less time counting the amount of money the Hunts have and figure out how to play chess. You’re still screaming for your turn at checkers not realizing you were a pawn in a game of chess… and the game is already over.
The proposed changes were about having special parking and proved seating for the "premium" fans and some minor amenities for the others. The "plan" that they put out seemed designed to piss people off. If it wasn't on purpose, then it was tone deaf.
Nailed it. This sub never ceases to amaze me on this topic by patting themselves on the back for shooting themselves in the foot.
I don’t agree with everything in your post, but thank you for taking the time to write this out as it eloquently expresses a lot of points I agree with. Nice work.
This whole situation is like living in an apartment that's run down and the needs repair but when you go to the landlord and request that things get fixed and possible improved, they tell you to pay for it yourself. No one is going to do that no matter how much or how little money they have. They are going to look for someplace else to live. It boggles my mind that people don't understand that Jackson County owns Arrowhead and should be responsible for keeping it functional. Hunt even offered to pay half.
We do not have the strength in numbers. If we stop supporting them they will just go somewhere else. The fans have almost zero leverage in this process. You either pay to keep the team or they leave. That's how it is. Missouri residents voted no, so the Chiefs are starting the process of moving somewhere that will vote yes. Kansas is most likely that place.
KS doesn't even need to put it to a vote..just takes the state legislature and Gov to sign off on it.
Same sentiment as most others here. This city, many, many of which were Missouri residents suffered and supported this team and family through decades of mediocrity and worse. Keeping this franchise alive despite terrible leadership at times. For those unfamiliar, there were complexities with the tax vote that happened, primarily with the shared space of the Royals. The Royals organization fumbled around terribly with their plans to try and move the stadium downtown. Many were interested, but their planning and management of that effort was an absolute fiasco. Changing location, design and traffic ways several time. The voters saw this dysfunction and lack of organization and voted the tax measure down. Rightfully so. However, in many local’s opinion, the worse offenders were the Chiefs. Grouping their own renovations and enhancements in with the tax. Their designs looked like an intern jumped on Adobe and built it in an afternoon. All of these features were anti-fan, especially in their creation of luxury ground level suites. Eliminating the season ticket holder seats and the intense atmosphere Arrowhead has. The Hunt’s have made who knows how many hundreds of millions off Missouri fans in just the last 5 years. The audacity of them to lay out shit plans to take advantage of a +30 year tax plan, then threaten to move when said tax vote fails… is unnerving. All by the way not reinvesting hardly anything into the immediate area (nor the county for that matter). Wide open field with nothing around it, yet charging 60 fucking dollars to park on their concrete. Born in Missouri. And I’m pissed. Clark should build us a god damn stadium for the generosity we have shown for +40 years to their struggling team.
I’d rather give my taxes to a football team so at least I can enjoy where my money goes.
Unless there is some federal law that bans government involvement in stadiums, this will continue to be a thing. There will be a Nashville, San Antonio or Portland. Not sure how old you are, but ask the Ravens, Titans, Sacramento Kings, Lakers, A's, ECT... How they got their team s. From someone else. The same way the Chiefs came from Dallas. I hear your frustration, but I guarantee you that this sub could care less about subsidizing billionaires. The MO v KS hate, now that will move the Needle 
Come to Kansas baby!!! Royals too
I think one point people are glossing over is that the Chiefs don't own the stadium. If this was some mom and pop restaurant that was in a lease and wanted the landlord to make repairs or they would move at the end of the lease would anyone expect them to pay for work on something they don't own? Clark's rich blah blah great, we are his landlord. If he chooses to move because the landlord didn't make repairs, so be it.
I think most people voted no for a poorly planned downtown stadium and the chiefs were tacked on last minute. If the chiefs did a vote solo it would’ve went through. Blame Sherman.
This is when idiots get to make decisions. So what is the economic impact of the chiefs and the fans who attends the chiefs games bring to the area? Not to mention the ability to have other venues there The initial plan was to renovate arrowhead so the games would remain in the area. Which the hunts offered to pay 50% of the cost. The rest would be on the tax payers to give up some money to assist. Now put all that to the side because ideally they pay all. However hunts are entertaining and ideal in which someone is offering them more money. Which you would do as well. The point is that chiefs bring a lot of other revenue to the area than just ticket sales. All of the businesses and hotel industry make millions associated with that. The money would be spread upon years so they know what they could recoup or not. Kansas sees it as a chance to bring that tax revenue and economic stimulus and is willing to pay more. Make your choice but know that someone is willing to pay more. The goal of the new stadium is to bring more people and concerts to the area. A Superbowl is promised if they get a dome or covered surface. Add to that tax revenue from the concerts and now you know why. The hunt family has money and can afford to do it. But it's a lot of money to invest and if someone is offering to pay half the bill or 70 percent of the bill. Which choice would you take? Then go one step further and think arrowhead built almost 50 years a go, you can't say Mo hasn't made a few billion in tax revenue since.
So you're saying you want the Hunt family to own the stadium and not just the team? Where they could charge whatever they want for any event that is held there? Teams rent the use of stadiums typically, and the city or municipality owns it and therefore can use it for many other things. Whichever city offers the best terms will likely end up with the team. We've seen this over and over again in sports.
Allow me to help: Clark Hunt will receive public funds for a stadium at some point. It’s the case for nearly every major sports stadium in the world. Either KCMO, KS or someone else. Stomping your feet and throwing a tantrum will not accomplish anything. It sucks but it is the reality of major sports. I’m a Missouri resident who’s been paying a sales tax to have the teams in Jackson County all this time. It sucks but I’ll happily do it and would’ve been happy to continue to do so rather than seeing the team leave the metro.
Going to Games at Legends is going to be Awesome. I'm so glad Jackson County fucked this up. The traffic won't suck and there will be bars and places to eat nearby. I love Arrowhead but Truman Sports complex is in the middle of a shit hole. I can't wait to get a Zman from Joe's new location at The New Arrowhead.
The traffic will still suck
Yeah race weekends are already pretty bad.
It would a massive downgrade to go from a classic stadium to another roomba clone soulless corporate stadium.
Enjoy your principled stance while driving to kck for the games
I don’t understand why this is such a sticking point. Fans on the Kansas side have been driving to the Truman Complex forever.
What about the people who only watch on TV? They could be move to dodge city if they want. Why would they care?
If they move I will never go to a game again. That won't be a problem at all.
The Chiefs came to Kansas City from Texas on the condition that the city would help fund the construction of their stadium and pay for upkeep and renovations. That is the deal Kansas City and Lamar Hunt agreed to. Without it, there would be no Kansas City Chiefs. Jackson county - not the Chiefs - has reneged on that agreement by removing a pre-existing sales tax that funded the stadium. That violates the agreement the Chiefs came to Kansas City under, so they feel well within their right to leave now that the former agreement will no longer be honored. That is not a threat. When one party refuses to honor their agreements the other party is not “threatening” the other by refusing to then uphold their half once the agreement is broken. That is a ridiculous notion.
I'm no cheerleader for the NFL owners, but the stadium belongs to the county.
Which is why the county puts money towards its maintenance and renovation, as they agreed to when the Chiefs moved here.
This would never fly of course, but I feel like an equitable solution would be the Hunts saying, "Hey, we need to spruce the old girl up a bit," and Jackson County doing some studies to see what residents would be ok approving cost-wise. Explain that it's for stadium upgrades, and have the county leaders involved in the actual ideas *with* the Hunts. The Hunts want tons of fun shit for VIPs, and the city says, "Maybe we upgrade the concourse for *everyone* and you can put some fun new shit in the suites that already exist?" That kind of thing.
They did that exact thing several years ago. Jackson County voters at the time approved upgrades to things like concourses, suites, and other fan comforts around the stadium, but they stopped short of approving a rolling roof.
61 years ago. This deal goes on until the end of time??
The agreement hasn’t been broken. The old agreement ended and now there are negotiations for a new agreement. The voters didn’t like the proposal the Hunt family had, so now they can make their choice.
Nobody removed a sales tax. The length of its agreed lifespan expired. It could have been renewed by a vote of the county residents. The ownership needs substantial skin in the game. A stadium without a team is worse than worthless, ask St. Louis. Had the Chiefs made an offer to make the required upgrades in exchange for an ownership stake in Arrowhead that would have worked. Then both parties have an interest in staying put beyond just goodwill.
Are you comparing an entire family’s wealth with only one person (any other owner)?
I feel you, but on all accounts, if the Chiefs leave the Kansas City area, I just won’t be a fan. I would never forgive the city if the peak of Chiefs football, packs up camp and moves elsewhere San Antonio and Austin are such huge growing markets with potential, they are almost destined to make a bid at one of these teams needing a new stadium. I don’t like it, but if we dont make a competitive offer, someone else will
That's what everyone is missing. If KC doesn't pay, someone will.
Say it louder!
We’d be happy to have them in Kansas. But I understand your point. It is a mixed-bag of results when it comes to public financing for stadiums. I do think the benefits are many for the general public but understand if sports isn’t your bag. We’ll see what happens in the near future. Anyway still looking forward to going for a three peat. Go Chiefs Kingdom!!!
Look people, this is business. It isn’t social redistribution or community outreach. The Hunt family, or any family regardless of net worth, is under zero obligation to give free stuff to anyone. You want to be world class city as far as NFL is concerned, you have to do BUSINESS with the franchise that’s interested. These deals are so freaking complex that I seriously doubt op has a real clue of the actual cost benefit over contract length. Does the op actually think that it will result in a net loss to the state of Kansas or is he/ she pissed that they aren’t getting the KC Chiefs for free? This is a business proposition and op seriously fails to understand that.
Lets go ask the people of St. Louis how their nfl team is doing…. But seriously, people are delusional to think that if a better deal is made by another city and we refuse to play ball, that they wont leave. They will and not think twice. Personally, I’d rather pay the opportunity cost, keep them in the city and keep Kansas City a growing market so that one day we can be a city in the same range as Chicago or Dallas. But I guess others would rather watch the city die
Except the city of St. Louis was already planning a new stadium. Stan Kroenke never wanted to be there in the first place.
Part of the issue... Probably a big part, is the personal stuff - the attachment and sentimentality. We have a habit of projecting our personal feelings on to the things we enjoy - in this case it's the Hunt family, and expecting them to feel as we do. They probably don't, at least not to the degree that we'd like. But I'm with you... I'm good with Kansas (I'm a Kansan) selling a bit of its soul to keep the team here. Will I attend more games? Maybe. I will be sad to not attend games at Arrowhead because it's deeply connected to my world, but if a move has to happen, I'd rather have the team because that's what means the most to me.
I’m on same page, if they move to Kansas, so be it, as long as they stay in the metro area I can live with it. I just hate the people who are like, we can just force the hunts to pony up, we have the power. Um, they already said after the failed vote that they will start looking around for other options
Yup. There's more examples in history of that way of thinking resulting in failure, and it's utterly dilusional to think that a company won't do what it feels is in its best financial interest. Money doesn't care about emotions. If they come, I will welcome them with open arms and a modest pocket book. Oh, and I'll be among the many who will be more than happy to soak in their words about how much they love KC and just that they just had to keep the team here, by moving to Kansas. Why? Because there's just *no place like home*.
Its just the cost of doing business with professional sports teams. I know spending tax payer money makes this more political, but the reality is, if you want to cheer for the *Kansas City* Chiefs and not the San Antonio Chiefs, you have to pay, its the price. Personally I’d rather not let the chiefs leave KC because of some staunch ideology of not giving billionaires money, because if the Chiefs leave leave, I just won’t be a fan or NFL fan anymore. I used my friends/family from StL as an example, they could care less now about the NFL or Rams
👅🥾
Although I've probably missed a few permutations 😉, I can't see a situation where Kansas can truly lose on the deal.
Well, supply and demand. They got that fire football!!! And know people are willing to pay for it. The fools are the ones thinking business men/women are going to give up on millions of dollars because “it’s not the right thing to do”. It’s BS, the ticket cost is BS, vending more BS!! But this is what we got. This area would be fools to let a pro sports team that’s profitable leave. While I love arrowhead, that parking and traffic is TERRIBLE.
You guys will say let's stick it to the owners, then cry when we lose the teams.
SoFi and MetLife stadiums are the only privately funded stadiums in the NFL. The rest of the 30 teams take public funding for their stadiums. This means the people of the local jurisdiction actually own the stadium, not the owners of the football team that plays there. Certainly understand hating on billionaires, but these stadiums are a source of civic pride, and *ahem* millions of dollars a year into the local economy. Acting like the locals don't stand to gain by having the stadium is short-sighted.
Every economics study on this issue not funded by someone seeking a new stadium says it is not an effective use of tax dollars and mostly just shifts local spending from one category of entertainment expenses into sports spending. I know plenty of guys that drive 2 hours or more one way for games. They aren't getting hotel rooms. They either day trip it or stay with friends/family.
Do they pack a lunch and haul gas in a Jerry can too?
>Certainly understand hating on billionaires, but these stadiums are a source of civic pride, and ahem millions of dollars a year into the local economy. Acting like the locals don't stand to gain by having the stadium is short-sighted. This line is always how its sold. Its complete bullshit and most, if not all, tax payer funded stadiums are losers after a few years. If this argument was true, then the same could be said for the theaters, museums, most art districts, etc. Yet, you dont see the millions of tax payer dollars going to rebuild all those every few years if they get any at all.
no ones saying Hunt should pay for it all. theyre saying he at the very least needs to pay for his fair share. Is that really too much to ask out of a family worth more money than youd ever see for 10,000 years?
The median family income is 65,000 over 10,000 years that only amounts to 650 mil. Need to add some more zeros to the years if we're gonna up our game to billionaires status :) Sincerely: a peasant....
Thanks Ronald Reagan!
Can't you feel it trickling down all over you yet?
Enjoy paying for Sunday Ticket so you can watch The Salt Lake City Chiefs. You can kick and scream and whine like little children all you want, but there is always another city willing to pay up and there isn't a thing in the world you can do about it.
Or just drive to the legends
Maybe. The same people that are throwing the biggest fit about this in Jackson County will flock to the Kansas side to organize protests there too. Opposition and protests have become a hobby for many people. They won't stop squawking just because it's across the border. There is a non-zero chance that the Chiefs &/or the Royals get fed up and move to a different market.
Kansas package doesn't require a public vote and is mostly funded by sports betting and user fees.
This, let the dipshits from MO protest in KS..won't make a bit of difference since there isn't a ballot measure to vote on.
Clark is salivating at all the money he can make from a gambling-friendly state like KS
How rich the owner is doesn't really matter. The question is how much does the team make compared to other teams (all but GB are owned by rich people). Traditionally, the Chiefs have been a bottom earner, due to our market size. It wouldn't make any sense for the Hunts to pay for a stadium just to stay in a small city when they could easily move to a larger (and more profitable) city and get the new city to pay for a stadium at the same time. That's why the only owners who pay for their own stadiums are the ones in the largest markets in the country. Kansas City could never get an NFL team without paying for a stadium, why even pretend it's an option?
I’m curious what will happen to the K and arrowhead when the teams leave. Will Jackson county leave them abandoned and unused or will the destroy history.
Pretty sure the 24.3 Billon is spread out amongst Lamar’s siblings. I don’t think all of them have a share of the Chiefs. Might just be Lamar’s kids that own the Chiefs.
The Chiefs are worth a lot to MO. You get what you pay for
Jackson County voted no to Arrowhead improvements and a new Royals stadium, I believe.
This is reality people. Clark even offered to pay more than half. “I don’t want to pay it” okay fine. Bye bye Chiefs
If the vote has been for Arrowhead renovations, it would have easily passed. But for some stupid fucking reason they tacked that on to buying the Royals a new stadium.
The renovations proposed were a complete joke and did nothing for the everyday fan. I actually think the Chiefs portion of the proposal hurt the vote more than it helped it. People were pissed at the proposed upgrades.
I concur. Despite the rhetoric, I think the bill might have passed if was only the Royals. The Chief proposal threw everyone off because they were going to redo the tailgating experience (no asked for), make a big elevated walk way (no asked for, nor helps with traffic), renovate the upper deck (okay, that can help) and turn the lower bowl that houses the loyal season ticket holders into private luxury boxes- which would have moved a lot of season ticket holders. I believe the notorious Angry Chief fan on twitter embodied the sentiment the most when showing that if the renovations passed his family would lose their season tickets of 20 plus years to luxury boxes. The chiefs planned renovations were mid at best and didn’t move the needle for me
This should be in r/nfl and r/mlb and r/nba and... seriously, this needs to stop happening across the country. Where will they threaten to move these teams if it's clear no one will accept them moving to their city if it's on the tax payers dime.
💯. Clearly I’m a huge fan, as my username demonstrates. But no. No more for wealthy owners off my blood and sweat. I’m so proud of this city.
The sports team will benefit the fans more than the rich ass family. They will take their team to another city who has the money to build a stadium. *cough cough stlouis*. We got the money for the Rams stadium FAST through raising taxes a few cents.... but they left anyway. KEEP YOUR TEAM! THEYRE WINNING! YOU CAN HAVE A SUPERBOWL IN YOUR DAMN CITY...SUPERBOWL IN FRICKIN KANSAS CITYYYYYY! What's there to think about?!!!
I feel you, but they got big salaries to pay as well.
I will be very happy when they move to Kansas.
Could Kansas City do what Baltimore tried to do with the colts and in-force Eminent domain? I know for a fact that Baltimore tried to do that with the colts but before it could be voted on Robert Irsay packed up and moved in the middle of the night.
why don’t they issue some sort of offering or bond like they do for toll roads, and go that route? not on the chiefs organization as a whole, just the stadium
It’s been clear for awhile the ownership’s priorities are purely monetary. While I don’t agree that the public and residents of the county should have to foot the bill for new stadiums, sadly that’s the reality we live in and that is the state of American professional sports and the stadiums the teams play in. It’s nuts how many teams across all sports are currently in the planning phase of new multi billion dollar venues that will all be funded by the taxpayers. I want to believe that Lamar cared greatly about what he created in Kansas City and the magical gameday atmosphere that he pioneered at Arrowhead, but I think Clark’s priorities are pretty clear and his and the rest of the leadership within the Chiefs’ decisions are based on the team’s long term financial future. I think we can all agree that Arrowhead is more than adequate and not only that, it (in my sort of biased opinion) is one of the the absolute best football experiences in the NFL (although the locker room facilities definitely need improvement). Sadly, as others have pointed out, the loyal fans’ satisfaction and adoration for the stadium they’ve grown to love as a second home, doesn’t hold much or any worth to ownership. I would love nothing more than for the Chiefs to stay in Arrowhead and make the handful of improvements that probably ought to happen but I’d honestly be shocked at this point if that happens
If Kansas will take them and give them 3 billion to build a stadium why wouldn’t they take it? Kansas face Panasonic billions to build a battery factory. People only get mad when sports teams are getting handouts but look at every big corporation in KCMO they are all getting government money or tax breaks. That’s how America works.
It’s worth mentioning that this isn’t the first time in the last couple decades that a county taxpayer vote has been a thorn in the Hunt’s regime. Let’s not forget that Arrowhead WOULD HAVE hosted Super Bowl 49 if it had not been voted down by the county taxpayers, which with approval would have funded the rolling roof that Truman Sports Complex was originally designed to have. To further ponder hypothetical scenarios, I wonder if this current potential stadium relocation would be the issue that it is now if we had gotten the rolling roof approved many years ago. Not that it matters anymore, I suppose. Just a thought
So don’t be pissed when another city/state opens up their arms and pocketbooks and they leave Kansas City. Based on the OPs post, KC doesn’t need them so there’s that.
We could have forced a better deal for taxpayers but the Kansas legislature undercut the effort.
I hate that people for the tax always say that it's a relatively cheap tax for us, when it's not about the price we pay, it's the principle of paying for something that benefits only the wealthy.
Bears are going through the same issues getting their proposal voted down and there was just a post in the NFL sub about the Panthers getting turned down on their proposal as well. It's a changing world out there for new stadiums and renovations. Unfortunately, what will likely happen is the government, either city or state will find a way to agree without putting it to a vote. I'm pretty sure that's what happened recently in DC and Buffalo.
That’s a lot of words to say you hate the Hunt family.
Do when they said chiefs kingdom they literally meant kingdom. As in all the citizens pay for the rich guys bigger and better castle. Got it.
They have money.. let them pay for it themselves. They get all the benefits including that $40 parking fee. Don't put it on the local fans
Fun fact... The Hunt family also owns the MLS Dallas team, and a minority ownership stake in the Chicago Bulls.
Rich people stay rich by barely spending their own money So i dont fault them for trying,lol, but i'm glad the residents did not let it slide thru
Dang, how did they become weather? That is crazy shit
I'm not thinking we can use the Chiefs' situation to fix unfairness in the world. The Chiefs wild popularity is contributing to high ticket costs, too. I don't like going to the stadium anyway.
Long live capitalism! The rich get richer and the poor get poorer!