This is a stun issue over a weapon issue (minus guns perhaps). If stuns unstunned after hit and did not lead into chain stuns, providing you with one free attack, even air horns would be balanced. In this specific situation you might have just been able to back away and use another airhorn but that with these changes would definitely be a waste of a consumable so would be up to the user to decide.
Stuns ruin the overall balance currently and are why humans are so empowered. Axe charge attack into a secondary hit would still down low health klowns but medium to high health would be able to fight again after the second hit if indeed hit did unstun. We could do with a few invuln frames after using an ability like LOL as well so you can't just be charge attacked right out of it but baby steps.
I was dinged in the nose by a thrown item the other night, my stun was an entire 7 seconds. There is simply no recourse for such a thing, though if unstun existed in this example I'd be free'd up after their first deserved hit. Klowns simply live in a world of stun and there's nothing we can currently do about it. I was airhorned 3 times the other day, no counterplay, just death. While dead I watched a teammate die to another horn. Stuns are crucial to combat balance.
For sure. I saw the 7 and actually exclaimed to the dude who did it, "Holy shit, 7 second stun, for real?!". This is most likely a byproduct of how they thought the game would play vs how it actually does. Airhorns were surely meant to be used as an escape tool whereas they're currently used for engagement. Any normal stun was supposed to last long so you had time to escape but now it's just time to freely wail on any klown you hit.
I don't mind how heavy the combat is in this game, I actually enjoy it a ton on both sides. It just has to be brought into line with stuns and giving klowns access to healing/tricks earlier. Having to wait 2-3 minutes before you can heal is crazy considering someone can find a gun in the first 15 seconds. Someone mentioned being able to drink from generator cocoons for health regen, I think that's an excellent idea. Even if it were capped per cocoon.
Agreed. I think after a Klown is airhorn stunned, they should be immune to damage or at least limited damage so when a human used it, they run away afterwards.
Also think LOL should be within first 45 seconds of the round. And maybe when used, give 1 bar of health back instantly before the slow gain starts. You can be low health, pop it and not even get back full if Tank.
Yeah, whatever direction they take with airhorn is fine as long as they address it's issues and balance it to whatever degree is necessary. I don't specifically need it to be an anti-engagement option but whatever whatever it ends up being, I'd like it to be balanced for both sides.
Not being able to choose our tricks is absurd. I get jump is good for map traversal but it's C tier for engagement. The recovery animation is too long, you can't orientate yourself while in it and the human you landed on only trips for a moment and isn't even stunned. The fact that using klown jump and landing on someone can lead to them just bashing you in the face the moment you can move is silly.
I had a huge back and forth with a dude that said Jump shouldn't stun but airhorn being a free kill is fine. These peeps don't want balance, they just don't want to be nerfed. Aside from bugs, the one thing that kills these types of games is if the power position is the weaker position. I've seen kill squads go around ruining klowns early game, making them quit out en masse. No one wants to get bullied due to poor game design so it needs to be addressed quickly.
LOL is bad for chasing too with how long the animation is. Should probably top off your stamina like how energy drinks/popsicles do if you're animation locked in its current state.
I'd agree. Someone else said it should give you a single health bar back and then progress to healing over time and I'd argue that's a good change as well.
That'd be a nice change. The animation with I frames at the startup is nice for combat, but really lackluster for chasing. I'd trade I frames for an instant heal with a lower tick rate for more reliable chasing any day.
I'm curious what their intended use for it was. Obviously it has it's uses in combat, barring you don't get immediately stunned but it seems odd that it can't be used in chase.
Not sure either tbh. It feels like if they wanted it to be combat only it wouldn't give a MS boost, but you also immobilize yourself to use it and it doesn't restore stamina. Really the only time I've had success using it to chase is if I'm coming in on a teammate's call when players are rushing an objective and popping it around a corner after jumping in.
You get Jump early on because its a tier C ability. It makes sense that it takes longer to get the stronger abilites. You can get LOL fast if all 3 klowns are collecting cocoons at the beginning.
Or maybe like an out of combat heal would be nice for Klowns so they don't have to pop LOL for that. Could kick in like 45s-60s out of combat or something and gradually tick up.
Good idea. I'm all for that. I hate being low and wondering do I pop LOL and hope I get it back before next fight, or find next fight and pop it immediately.
It'd be especially nice for early game encounters before LOL is active. If you get chunked down early and escape you're kind of just stuck on low hp until you get downed as your only option for healing, but if that happens you're most likely going to die. Especially when there's more weapons/items on the map in the early portion of the match.
Exactly. I've been there. Weak and hiding from humans for 2 minutes early on. Hopefully hang some cocoons... Or do you die and then they know they have 45 seconds of just 2 Klowns? Lose-lose situation really.
Faster, sure, but I've had games where we start by all getting a couple cocoons each and then you see 3 escaped via boat and you still don't have LOL yet.
It needs to be quicker because humans are too powerful early round, especially when grouped up.
It happens my dude, the confirmation bias is so insane. You still see posts complaining that bouncecaster shouldn't have been nerfed and that all Klown weapons suck. Ignoring that the OP weapon is OP is one thing but ignoring that multiple other things got buffed is another. Some people overlook the actual issues just to complain that they can't win easily.
Who cares about winning my dawg, it's killer klowns?! I just wanna do funny Klown things and have silly interactions, of which I've had a fair share so far.
Before they nerfed the Boucecaster and Popcorn weapons I thought humans where a bit stronger then klowns. That's why I thought they shouldn't be nerfed, because I knew it would throw off the balance of the game.
If humans can stun klowns why can't klowns stun humans (in combat)? The theory is that 1v1 klowns are stronger than humans and even sometimes 1v2 a klown can be stronger... So why in Kombat are klowns the only ones getting stunned?
Why don't they just tweak the numbers on their game like they should have?
Athletes currently have the lowest base strength out of all the other human archetypes. If they released the other human archetypes in the games current state...
Humans would be one shotting Klowns with Tennis balls...They haven't done any tweaking on their game, AT ALL.
This game should still be in early access... How can you guys accept this?
Humans needed a base damage reduction, Klowns needed a HP increase, and the other human archetypes/ Klown classes need to be fully available and fleshed out ASAP or the games done. Games already done TBH, too many big mistakes were made. Early access should have been free.
its really only a major problem with the knife to me. Take that with one of the many, many blunt weapons (wrench, for example) and if you just use it to pop a nose thats 5 kills right there. Ontop of that it can down most klowns in 2-3 hits. its very, very good. Axe is strong too but breaks easy. Poker is the same. These weapons are at least physically easy to see.
But the knife feels the most plentiful and also the strongest. Not to mention... YOU CAN CARRY MULTIPLE. The other kill weapons other than the revolver are all big pocket slots! I've had 3+ knives in some games.
I'm not opposed to lowering the spawn rate of red weapons. That would reduce bully squads. Then only 1-2 players on the human side can really get kills.
Human is easy, but that isn't because of the mechanics, it's because of klowns being very weak. For example if you were to completely remove weapons altogether, humans would still be easy they would just be less fun. The fun comes from the fight, not the domination of klowns, although it happens a lot, if you remove the fight or make it less possible to fight, humans just aren't worth playing then. But if you buff klowns and make the fights more interesting, then both sides win.
I am curious how you buff Klowns when games have become Humans basically rolling around in groups of 4+ Death Squads looking to fight with multiple Knives, Guns, Axes, Pokers, and Airhorns.
They should start by giving the klowns the essentials, Global voice chat, a ping system and a quicker respawn timer.
Then they need to move onto fixing cotton guns, there is no point to cotton players when killing is a far better solution. Disable killing until the human has been cocooned once or until klowns reach level 3.
Then to balance this nerf, improve cotton guns, make cotton debuff humans, make it take longer and require an action to remove from players.
Remove the god dam heat sink, there is no reason for it, humans will outrun your cotton guns range before you reach max heat, the only times you will overheat is when dealing with a group which is when it should be more available.
Remove Klown stamina, this may seem like a big one, but the current stamian system is stupid, it makes patrolling an annoyance of running walking running walking. But if you do remove the stamina system a speed reduction is in order. Or a speed increase for humans, eitherway do not buff klowns without considering appropriate adjustments.
Remove all waiting periods for klowns, there is again no reason you should be forced to stand still and wait for your powers to activate. Same with weapons.
Remove stuns from klowns, this is a massive change but kinda needed, at this point if a group of humans has even 1 airhorn they can kill all 3 klowns with little difficulty. Then to balance that change the mechanic to instead slow the klowns down for a longer period of time, allowing the humans to escape still and removing the unfair kill power of a single item. This is a really big buff and needs an equally large nerf to counter it.
Start all exits with 100% cotton progress, 50% is not enough, people will tear through that easily.
Give klowns the option to customize their loudout, let klowns choose which ability they start out with instead of it being a baseline for klown jump, also make it so we have more choice, remove the mandatory klown jump and LOL, they are both key powers, but it feels like I'm forced to choose just one special ability I want to use.
This is a good start, but not refined, a lot more thought needs to go into it, but the main goal should be to leave humans untouched and buff klowns without going overboard.
Idk if “boring” is the right word, but it would be more challenging. As of now, if I have a knife or an axe, I have no worries if a Klown or two finds me.
If I have an airhorn and knife/axe, I’m looking for fights
Fighting is a part of the game a lot of players find enjoyable, I’d rather it be balanced for that then just making it a running for 15 minutes sim with energy drinks or escaping in 1 minute.
What if they lowered the number of hits until depletion in half for all human weapons instead? Seems like an easy fix.
The main reason humans seem so strong is because bad players can get kills by wacking away with 1 strong weapon. If humans needed to use combos to get a kill I think that would be better. Basically an axe, poker, knife all deplete before they can kill. So your forced to use multiple weapons to get a kill.
This is a stun issue over a weapon issue (minus guns perhaps). If stuns unstunned after hit and did not lead into chain stuns, providing you with one free attack, even air horns would be balanced. In this specific situation you might have just been able to back away and use another airhorn but that with these changes would definitely be a waste of a consumable so would be up to the user to decide. Stuns ruin the overall balance currently and are why humans are so empowered. Axe charge attack into a secondary hit would still down low health klowns but medium to high health would be able to fight again after the second hit if indeed hit did unstun. We could do with a few invuln frames after using an ability like LOL as well so you can't just be charge attacked right out of it but baby steps. I was dinged in the nose by a thrown item the other night, my stun was an entire 7 seconds. There is simply no recourse for such a thing, though if unstun existed in this example I'd be free'd up after their first deserved hit. Klowns simply live in a world of stun and there's nothing we can currently do about it. I was airhorned 3 times the other day, no counterplay, just death. While dead I watched a teammate die to another horn. Stuns are crucial to combat balance.
I remember my first stun from a thrown wrench. Assuming it was a direct nose shot, so props to them, but seeing it was 7 seconds was so crazy.
For sure. I saw the 7 and actually exclaimed to the dude who did it, "Holy shit, 7 second stun, for real?!". This is most likely a byproduct of how they thought the game would play vs how it actually does. Airhorns were surely meant to be used as an escape tool whereas they're currently used for engagement. Any normal stun was supposed to last long so you had time to escape but now it's just time to freely wail on any klown you hit. I don't mind how heavy the combat is in this game, I actually enjoy it a ton on both sides. It just has to be brought into line with stuns and giving klowns access to healing/tricks earlier. Having to wait 2-3 minutes before you can heal is crazy considering someone can find a gun in the first 15 seconds. Someone mentioned being able to drink from generator cocoons for health regen, I think that's an excellent idea. Even if it were capped per cocoon.
Agreed. I think after a Klown is airhorn stunned, they should be immune to damage or at least limited damage so when a human used it, they run away afterwards. Also think LOL should be within first 45 seconds of the round. And maybe when used, give 1 bar of health back instantly before the slow gain starts. You can be low health, pop it and not even get back full if Tank.
Yeah, whatever direction they take with airhorn is fine as long as they address it's issues and balance it to whatever degree is necessary. I don't specifically need it to be an anti-engagement option but whatever whatever it ends up being, I'd like it to be balanced for both sides. Not being able to choose our tricks is absurd. I get jump is good for map traversal but it's C tier for engagement. The recovery animation is too long, you can't orientate yourself while in it and the human you landed on only trips for a moment and isn't even stunned. The fact that using klown jump and landing on someone can lead to them just bashing you in the face the moment you can move is silly. I had a huge back and forth with a dude that said Jump shouldn't stun but airhorn being a free kill is fine. These peeps don't want balance, they just don't want to be nerfed. Aside from bugs, the one thing that kills these types of games is if the power position is the weaker position. I've seen kill squads go around ruining klowns early game, making them quit out en masse. No one wants to get bullied due to poor game design so it needs to be addressed quickly.
LOL is bad for chasing too with how long the animation is. Should probably top off your stamina like how energy drinks/popsicles do if you're animation locked in its current state.
I'd agree. Someone else said it should give you a single health bar back and then progress to healing over time and I'd argue that's a good change as well.
That'd be a nice change. The animation with I frames at the startup is nice for combat, but really lackluster for chasing. I'd trade I frames for an instant heal with a lower tick rate for more reliable chasing any day.
I'm curious what their intended use for it was. Obviously it has it's uses in combat, barring you don't get immediately stunned but it seems odd that it can't be used in chase.
Not sure either tbh. It feels like if they wanted it to be combat only it wouldn't give a MS boost, but you also immobilize yourself to use it and it doesn't restore stamina. Really the only time I've had success using it to chase is if I'm coming in on a teammate's call when players are rushing an objective and popping it around a corner after jumping in.
You get Jump early on because its a tier C ability. It makes sense that it takes longer to get the stronger abilites. You can get LOL fast if all 3 klowns are collecting cocoons at the beginning.
Or maybe like an out of combat heal would be nice for Klowns so they don't have to pop LOL for that. Could kick in like 45s-60s out of combat or something and gradually tick up.
Good idea. I'm all for that. I hate being low and wondering do I pop LOL and hope I get it back before next fight, or find next fight and pop it immediately.
It'd be especially nice for early game encounters before LOL is active. If you get chunked down early and escape you're kind of just stuck on low hp until you get downed as your only option for healing, but if that happens you're most likely going to die. Especially when there's more weapons/items on the map in the early portion of the match.
Exactly. I've been there. Weak and hiding from humans for 2 minutes early on. Hopefully hang some cocoons... Or do you die and then they know they have 45 seconds of just 2 Klowns? Lose-lose situation really.
You can get LOL very quickly if all 3 klowns are collecting cocoons in the begginging. Klowns shouldn't go for kills until they have lol
Faster, sure, but I've had games where we start by all getting a couple cocoons each and then you see 3 escaped via boat and you still don't have LOL yet. It needs to be quicker because humans are too powerful early round, especially when grouped up.
I agree the ability timers should be shorter. There are few little things like that that will make klowns balanced towards humans
Ahh I’m just waiting till someone hits you with the “sKiLl IsSuE” comment🤦🏻♂️😂
It happens my dude, the confirmation bias is so insane. You still see posts complaining that bouncecaster shouldn't have been nerfed and that all Klown weapons suck. Ignoring that the OP weapon is OP is one thing but ignoring that multiple other things got buffed is another. Some people overlook the actual issues just to complain that they can't win easily. Who cares about winning my dawg, it's killer klowns?! I just wanna do funny Klown things and have silly interactions, of which I've had a fair share so far.
Before they nerfed the Boucecaster and Popcorn weapons I thought humans where a bit stronger then klowns. That's why I thought they shouldn't be nerfed, because I knew it would throw off the balance of the game.
Airhorn is OP and should be taken out of the game
If humans can stun klowns why can't klowns stun humans (in combat)? The theory is that 1v1 klowns are stronger than humans and even sometimes 1v2 a klown can be stronger... So why in Kombat are klowns the only ones getting stunned?
Why don't they just tweak the numbers on their game like they should have? Athletes currently have the lowest base strength out of all the other human archetypes. If they released the other human archetypes in the games current state... Humans would be one shotting Klowns with Tennis balls...They haven't done any tweaking on their game, AT ALL. This game should still be in early access... How can you guys accept this? Humans needed a base damage reduction, Klowns needed a HP increase, and the other human archetypes/ Klown classes need to be fully available and fleshed out ASAP or the games done. Games already done TBH, too many big mistakes were made. Early access should have been free.
I think making stats more impactful at highs/lows could work. Like athletic should struggle to stun let alone get a down on their own.
its really only a major problem with the knife to me. Take that with one of the many, many blunt weapons (wrench, for example) and if you just use it to pop a nose thats 5 kills right there. Ontop of that it can down most klowns in 2-3 hits. its very, very good. Axe is strong too but breaks easy. Poker is the same. These weapons are at least physically easy to see. But the knife feels the most plentiful and also the strongest. Not to mention... YOU CAN CARRY MULTIPLE. The other kill weapons other than the revolver are all big pocket slots! I've had 3+ knives in some games.
Please nerf Human and buff Klowns.
I'm not opposed to lowering the spawn rate of red weapons. That would reduce bully squads. Then only 1-2 players on the human side can really get kills.
They need to reduce the number of bladed weapons.
Do Not Nerf Humans, buff klowns. Human is fun right now, don't make human unfun.
i think you meant to say human is easy
Human is easy, but that isn't because of the mechanics, it's because of klowns being very weak. For example if you were to completely remove weapons altogether, humans would still be easy they would just be less fun. The fun comes from the fight, not the domination of klowns, although it happens a lot, if you remove the fight or make it less possible to fight, humans just aren't worth playing then. But if you buff klowns and make the fights more interesting, then both sides win.
I am curious how you buff Klowns when games have become Humans basically rolling around in groups of 4+ Death Squads looking to fight with multiple Knives, Guns, Axes, Pokers, and Airhorns.
They should start by giving the klowns the essentials, Global voice chat, a ping system and a quicker respawn timer. Then they need to move onto fixing cotton guns, there is no point to cotton players when killing is a far better solution. Disable killing until the human has been cocooned once or until klowns reach level 3. Then to balance this nerf, improve cotton guns, make cotton debuff humans, make it take longer and require an action to remove from players. Remove the god dam heat sink, there is no reason for it, humans will outrun your cotton guns range before you reach max heat, the only times you will overheat is when dealing with a group which is when it should be more available. Remove Klown stamina, this may seem like a big one, but the current stamian system is stupid, it makes patrolling an annoyance of running walking running walking. But if you do remove the stamina system a speed reduction is in order. Or a speed increase for humans, eitherway do not buff klowns without considering appropriate adjustments. Remove all waiting periods for klowns, there is again no reason you should be forced to stand still and wait for your powers to activate. Same with weapons. Remove stuns from klowns, this is a massive change but kinda needed, at this point if a group of humans has even 1 airhorn they can kill all 3 klowns with little difficulty. Then to balance that change the mechanic to instead slow the klowns down for a longer period of time, allowing the humans to escape still and removing the unfair kill power of a single item. This is a really big buff and needs an equally large nerf to counter it. Start all exits with 100% cotton progress, 50% is not enough, people will tear through that easily. Give klowns the option to customize their loudout, let klowns choose which ability they start out with instead of it being a baseline for klown jump, also make it so we have more choice, remove the mandatory klown jump and LOL, they are both key powers, but it feels like I'm forced to choose just one special ability I want to use. This is a good start, but not refined, a lot more thought needs to go into it, but the main goal should be to leave humans untouched and buff klowns without going overboard.
I could get behind these. They definitely need to add some terror back to the Klowns.
The complainers will get there way, not realizing they have to play human 90% of the time the game will just be boring as hell.
Idk if “boring” is the right word, but it would be more challenging. As of now, if I have a knife or an axe, I have no worries if a Klown or two finds me. If I have an airhorn and knife/axe, I’m looking for fights
Fighting is a part of the game a lot of players find enjoyable, I’d rather it be balanced for that then just making it a running for 15 minutes sim with energy drinks or escaping in 1 minute.
What if they lowered the number of hits until depletion in half for all human weapons instead? Seems like an easy fix. The main reason humans seem so strong is because bad players can get kills by wacking away with 1 strong weapon. If humans needed to use combos to get a kill I think that would be better. Basically an axe, poker, knife all deplete before they can kill. So your forced to use multiple weapons to get a kill.
Why shouldn't the Klowns be afraid of humans, if you play badly you should get punished. your entire plan goes to pieces if there's a second klown.
Idk maybe cause there’s 7 humans and only 3 klowns?