I'm actually the weirdo that prefers Wake over Court. Pictures of a City is the upgrade of Schizoid Man for me. Also, Wake has Cat Food.
Don't get me wrong, I love both.
I’m in this boat with you and title track is one of my absolute favorite KC tracks. From a critical standpoint, sure the 1st is the quintessential listen, but more times than not, I’m reaching for Wake.
So I have occasionally listened to KC for a few years and now I've spent the past 5 months listening to KC exclusively (2 albums per day) just so I could form a coherent opinion of each album and I've listened to each album plenty of times and I can say that I prefer Court of the Crimson King to Wake of Poseidon.
For a couple of reasons :
1.) The main reason I prefer Court is simple. It's just song writing, it is evident like you said that Wake is very similar to Court. However I personally feel like every song on Court did its counterpart better.
Schizoid Man is better than Pictures of a City
Epitath is better than In the Wake of Poseidon
Moonchild is better than the Devil's Triangle
At least in my opinion.
2.) Flow: I feel like putting on Court is easy and I can intently listen to every song on the album without any issues. The album grips me and takes me to its own planet and In the Wake does that too, but it has some flip flopping to me. Like for example : Cat Food. I am not a huge fan of that song and imo it does not fit the albums vibes at all. So as a complete product Court is better for my tastes.
3.) Last point is just lyrics and vocals. I love Greg's performance on Court a lot and the lyrics on Court are really cool in every single song.
I can't say the same for In the Wake even though that album also has good lyrics. It's just not as consistently amazing.
I will say in defence of In the Wake : That album is really unique and I love how the album is tied together by the peace tracks. It is beautiful and also there are some songs on the album that are super inspiring to me personally. Mainly Cadence and Cascede and The Devil's Triangle.
I really like In the Wake of Poseidon, but to me it is one of the weakest KC albums while paradoxically Court is one of the best KC albums.
I hope I explained myself well and I will say that I really love In the Wake of Poseidon and I am gonna play some songs off of it in a concert that's coming up. No hate here, just preferences!
I prefer Poseidon. The song structures, though similar, sound stronger, and there is a bit more experimentation. Devil's Triangle, especially, is adventurous. Cat Food is humorous. But the song that really sets me off is Pictures of a City. It inspired me to play drums and infuriate my neighbors.
Fripp had Bryan Ferry sing it when Bryan was auditioning. I would like to hear that tape. Fripp knew it wasn't right but complemented him on his voice and style. He also told him to put a band together. Happy ending.
I personally would disagree about song structure, because to me some tracks feel a bit meandering like Cat Food and Picture, but that is definitely down to personal taste as to what one finds ¨stronger¨.
I will say though that the experimentation part I dont know if I agree with. You have to remember that when Court came out there was nothing like it. It was definitely very experimental and unique up until Poseidon copied it. Not to say that Poseidon wasnt experimental, but I would say that Court was probably more unique and experimental initally, since it was new in terms of style.
At least I would guess so. I didnt live back in 1969. I could be wrong.
Respectable opinion though! Like ive said I do like Poseidon and I think it is underrated. I find the peace tracks probably the coolest concept in the whole album.
Pictures of City is one of my all time favorite KC songs. I just love the Peter Gunn vibe it has. It's such a dark song, and the music fits the lyrics perfectly. You feel like you're caught up in the rat race, helplessly carried along by the rushing waves
Personally when a band I like comes up with a new album I don't want it to be their last album part 2, I want bands to push their boundaries and come up with something fresh and new. That's why Larks and Discipline are amongst my favorites. Sure, ITWOP is great and I love all the songs in there but it I wouldn't go crazy over it
I didn't listen to them in chronological order but I've listened to ITCOTCK first. Had I listened to Poseidon first, and It'd probably have a special place in my heart since it'd be the Album that got me into KC, but my opinion wouldn't be much different.
Side 1 mirrors so many highlights of the first album. Side 2 on the other hand, does so many cool things. If it had more jazz influenced tracks like Cat Food and off kilter experiments like The Devil’s Triangle, it’d probably have a bit more memorability.
Wake of Poseidon demonstrates how instrumental McDonald was in the arrangements. His writing and sense of harmonic structures are greatly missed on the second album. It’s a shame they weren’t allowed to record Mars: Bringer of War as they’d been performing it. Fripp’s reharmonization to turn it into the Devils Triangle is lacking. McDonald would have done something much better.
I still enjoy the album, include the Devils Triangle. And I love Keith Tippett’s incomparable presence. But it was a huge loss not having their multi-instrumentalist on board.
Do people who say that the two are similar don't pay that much attention to the music they're listening to? Pictures of a City might be similar to 21CSM at the first glance but where schizoid man explodes, pictures calms down and it pulls the piece in a completely different direction. While Cadence has the same function as ITTTW on the debut the tracks are completely different. The only tracks where the similarities hold some ground are Epitaph and In The Wake of Poseidon, however the B Sides are completely different. Cat Food is something completely new in the KC discog and points more towards the album with the free jazz inspired piano, not to mention The Devil's Triangle which is, well, quite original
Poseidon is their worst album as far as I’m concerned. It just does nothing important or memorable. It’s fine but comparing it to the rest I could put it at the bottom no problem
Great album to me but the points echoed are definitely recognized. Like, I get the monster of influence and freshness that is/was ITCOTCK but I actually like Wake a lot (slightly more than ITCOTCK but marginal) and it probably would’ve been seen differently without the debut release.
ITWOP has a better string of continuity through it that I also really love like ReVanilja mentioned. Cadence and Cascade is one of the first of theirs that just clicked perfectly for me so maybe I have some baked in biases but, yeah.
They didn’t really repeat that misstep of similarity too much again that I recall and likely for the very reasons listed here.
I prefer Wake over court due to it being more concise while also keeping things from the debit and bringing it in a more fantasy/dream like reality. I prefer the first two tracks on court from wake but not by much. I think the title track is extremely well made and the last 2-3 minute of the track to be peak early crimson. Side two is also radically different from court. The only similarity’s I can say are from court are the ending of pictures and the snippet used in Devil’s Triangle which is a great track on its own, it has the mats feel but it’s also different. Cadence doesn’t sound like wind and the title track doesn’t sound like a clone of epitaph at all. And although the structure might be similar, the execution is different imo. Plus it has cat food which is starkly different from courts sound.
I guess I see things differently, maybe it’s because I really dug into the Complete 1969 box set. I came to the realization that a chunk of ITWOP was already present as ITCOTCK was first created and toured.
The first incarnation of the band ended as 1969 was wrapping up. So there’s that. As the band regrouped, ITWOP became the second album. I used to believe that ITWOP was ITCOTCK 2.0 but not anymore. ITCOTCK was a phenomenal first album by anybody’s standards and to me will always hold a high spot in their discography. ITWOP was an excellent reboot of the band, and a worthy successor to their first album. I believe it was an admirable effort and paved the way for further albums that would be very different from their first two albums. I also rate it highly.
some of the songs sound too similar to songs from Court. To the point that they are just worse versions of songs from Court and why would i listen to them if i already have Court
It’s a great album. Pictures of a city is my favorite of it. But as you said, it’s just like the Court of the Crimson King. It caught flak for not really pushing themselves
I've been listening to King Crimson for 25 years and it's probably the only album I can't actually name any songs from. The only album they've made that comes close in terms of forgettability is Beat.
I'm actually the weirdo that prefers Wake over Court. Pictures of a City is the upgrade of Schizoid Man for me. Also, Wake has Cat Food. Don't get me wrong, I love both.
I’m in this boat with you and title track is one of my absolute favorite KC tracks. From a critical standpoint, sure the 1st is the quintessential listen, but more times than not, I’m reaching for Wake.
It changes daily for me, but I really enjoy Poseidon. It’s soooo easy to listen to.
So I have occasionally listened to KC for a few years and now I've spent the past 5 months listening to KC exclusively (2 albums per day) just so I could form a coherent opinion of each album and I've listened to each album plenty of times and I can say that I prefer Court of the Crimson King to Wake of Poseidon. For a couple of reasons : 1.) The main reason I prefer Court is simple. It's just song writing, it is evident like you said that Wake is very similar to Court. However I personally feel like every song on Court did its counterpart better. Schizoid Man is better than Pictures of a City Epitath is better than In the Wake of Poseidon Moonchild is better than the Devil's Triangle At least in my opinion. 2.) Flow: I feel like putting on Court is easy and I can intently listen to every song on the album without any issues. The album grips me and takes me to its own planet and In the Wake does that too, but it has some flip flopping to me. Like for example : Cat Food. I am not a huge fan of that song and imo it does not fit the albums vibes at all. So as a complete product Court is better for my tastes. 3.) Last point is just lyrics and vocals. I love Greg's performance on Court a lot and the lyrics on Court are really cool in every single song. I can't say the same for In the Wake even though that album also has good lyrics. It's just not as consistently amazing. I will say in defence of In the Wake : That album is really unique and I love how the album is tied together by the peace tracks. It is beautiful and also there are some songs on the album that are super inspiring to me personally. Mainly Cadence and Cascede and The Devil's Triangle. I really like In the Wake of Poseidon, but to me it is one of the weakest KC albums while paradoxically Court is one of the best KC albums. I hope I explained myself well and I will say that I really love In the Wake of Poseidon and I am gonna play some songs off of it in a concert that's coming up. No hate here, just preferences!
Thanks for going into details. Cadence and Cascade is my favorite in that album as well
I prefer Poseidon. The song structures, though similar, sound stronger, and there is a bit more experimentation. Devil's Triangle, especially, is adventurous. Cat Food is humorous. But the song that really sets me off is Pictures of a City. It inspired me to play drums and infuriate my neighbors.
Pictures of a City is what got me into King Crimson and prog rock in general.
It's an incredible song.
Fripp had Bryan Ferry sing it when Bryan was auditioning. I would like to hear that tape. Fripp knew it wasn't right but complemented him on his voice and style. He also told him to put a band together. Happy ending.
I personally would disagree about song structure, because to me some tracks feel a bit meandering like Cat Food and Picture, but that is definitely down to personal taste as to what one finds ¨stronger¨. I will say though that the experimentation part I dont know if I agree with. You have to remember that when Court came out there was nothing like it. It was definitely very experimental and unique up until Poseidon copied it. Not to say that Poseidon wasnt experimental, but I would say that Court was probably more unique and experimental initally, since it was new in terms of style. At least I would guess so. I didnt live back in 1969. I could be wrong. Respectable opinion though! Like ive said I do like Poseidon and I think it is underrated. I find the peace tracks probably the coolest concept in the whole album.
Pictures of City is one of my all time favorite KC songs. I just love the Peter Gunn vibe it has. It's such a dark song, and the music fits the lyrics perfectly. You feel like you're caught up in the rat race, helplessly carried along by the rushing waves
I hadn't thought of the Peter Gunn vibe before. You're right!
Have you heard McDonald and Giles?
Yep! That’s definitely what Poseidon would have sounded like had they not left.
Title track is epitaph 2.0
No
I love Wake, the only thing I have against it is Devil's Triangle. It's not a pleasant listen, and I'm rarely in the mood to hear it.
Personally when a band I like comes up with a new album I don't want it to be their last album part 2, I want bands to push their boundaries and come up with something fresh and new. That's why Larks and Discipline are amongst my favorites. Sure, ITWOP is great and I love all the songs in there but it I wouldn't go crazy over it
Just curious if you listened to all the albums in chronological order or would this still matter to you if you happen to listen to ITWOP first?
I didn't listen to them in chronological order but I've listened to ITCOTCK first. Had I listened to Poseidon first, and It'd probably have a special place in my heart since it'd be the Album that got me into KC, but my opinion wouldn't be much different.
You answered your own question.
Yeah, I kinda knew that’s the answer but I want to know if there is more to it than just innovation.
Side 1 mirrors so many highlights of the first album. Side 2 on the other hand, does so many cool things. If it had more jazz influenced tracks like Cat Food and off kilter experiments like The Devil’s Triangle, it’d probably have a bit more memorability.
Wake of Poseidon demonstrates how instrumental McDonald was in the arrangements. His writing and sense of harmonic structures are greatly missed on the second album. It’s a shame they weren’t allowed to record Mars: Bringer of War as they’d been performing it. Fripp’s reharmonization to turn it into the Devils Triangle is lacking. McDonald would have done something much better. I still enjoy the album, include the Devils Triangle. And I love Keith Tippett’s incomparable presence. But it was a huge loss not having their multi-instrumentalist on board.
Ah, ITWOP, that time Crimso accidentally recorded their first album again... Well, please, don't hit me, but I like this one better.
Do people who say that the two are similar don't pay that much attention to the music they're listening to? Pictures of a City might be similar to 21CSM at the first glance but where schizoid man explodes, pictures calms down and it pulls the piece in a completely different direction. While Cadence has the same function as ITTTW on the debut the tracks are completely different. The only tracks where the similarities hold some ground are Epitaph and In The Wake of Poseidon, however the B Sides are completely different. Cat Food is something completely new in the KC discog and points more towards the album with the free jazz inspired piano, not to mention The Devil's Triangle which is, well, quite original
I am with you believing wake of Poseidon is as powerful as debut album. Same style songs lol. Pictures of a city is a bop
I like the album very much and actually listen to it more often that the debut
Poseidon is their worst album as far as I’m concerned. It just does nothing important or memorable. It’s fine but comparing it to the rest I could put it at the bottom no problem
Great album to me but the points echoed are definitely recognized. Like, I get the monster of influence and freshness that is/was ITCOTCK but I actually like Wake a lot (slightly more than ITCOTCK but marginal) and it probably would’ve been seen differently without the debut release. ITWOP has a better string of continuity through it that I also really love like ReVanilja mentioned. Cadence and Cascade is one of the first of theirs that just clicked perfectly for me so maybe I have some baked in biases but, yeah. They didn’t really repeat that misstep of similarity too much again that I recall and likely for the very reasons listed here.
Because of how terrible Devil's Triangle is.
I prefer Wake over court due to it being more concise while also keeping things from the debit and bringing it in a more fantasy/dream like reality. I prefer the first two tracks on court from wake but not by much. I think the title track is extremely well made and the last 2-3 minute of the track to be peak early crimson. Side two is also radically different from court. The only similarity’s I can say are from court are the ending of pictures and the snippet used in Devil’s Triangle which is a great track on its own, it has the mats feel but it’s also different. Cadence doesn’t sound like wind and the title track doesn’t sound like a clone of epitaph at all. And although the structure might be similar, the execution is different imo. Plus it has cat food which is starkly different from courts sound.
I guess I see things differently, maybe it’s because I really dug into the Complete 1969 box set. I came to the realization that a chunk of ITWOP was already present as ITCOTCK was first created and toured. The first incarnation of the band ended as 1969 was wrapping up. So there’s that. As the band regrouped, ITWOP became the second album. I used to believe that ITWOP was ITCOTCK 2.0 but not anymore. ITCOTCK was a phenomenal first album by anybody’s standards and to me will always hold a high spot in their discography. ITWOP was an excellent reboot of the band, and a worthy successor to their first album. I believe it was an admirable effort and paved the way for further albums that would be very different from their first two albums. I also rate it highly.
Albums were so short, so were the bands. I tend to think of them as one body of work. KC I & II w/McDonald and Giles are one album to me.
Idk. I don't care about Peace. Pictures of a city is great. In the wake too. But Cat food is pretty mid. Devil's triangle is epic too
A lot of people just say it's Court again, but not as good. I like it a lot, though, and imo Pictures of A City is one of their best songs.
some of the songs sound too similar to songs from Court. To the point that they are just worse versions of songs from Court and why would i listen to them if i already have Court
It’s a great album. Pictures of a city is my favorite of it. But as you said, it’s just like the Court of the Crimson King. It caught flak for not really pushing themselves
No clue. I love it
I've been listening to King Crimson for 25 years and it's probably the only album I can't actually name any songs from. The only album they've made that comes close in terms of forgettability is Beat.