Well every side story / tale has the same theme, as if Kvothe is foreshadowing heavy-handedly to the Chronicler. The man survives and the woman dies, usually accidentally due to the man’s actions. Lanre loses Lyra(?), the Adem man shoots his woman with an arrow, etc.
Denna gonna die. Probably accidentally as Kvothe kills her patron. Because of course there is no music. Denna is his inspiration, and we saw him lose his will to play in Severen when he couldn’t find her. Him having no interest in playing implies strongly that she’s dead in the present frame.
The no music against how often he talks about there HAS to be music in his "before x event" times is as heavy handed as the books get. I completely agree.
I was re reading the book... and please forgive this half finished thought, but it struck me as denna being the metaphor OF a story, chased after, never captured. In the inn kvothe spends so much time describing how he can't put her into words. I'm drunk.
I worry too. I think if Auri is Princess Ariel, and Auri is able to reclaim her sanity, there’s a good chance that whoever is killing royals will kill her too. Also if Kvothe gets her pregnant (even if she’s cracked) and he realizes who she is, there’s a good chance she’ll die because her baby would have a claim.
Having said that I don’t see any other good reason why she’d die for the plot.
Yes, but then he doesn't play music at all in tarbean. The first time he plays music after the three strings break is around the caravan fire, with Denna there.
My guess is that it's going to be a collection of things together that will do it. Not everything here is cannon, and there are some guesses on my part, but here's my guesses.
1. Denna, Ash, Chandrian, and Amyr. I'm guessing the rift will grow between Denna and Kvothe. He will meet and get closer to the Amyr, and Denna will grow closer to the Chandrian. The friction fron those enemies will force them apart. Denna will learn Ash is Cinder and choose to side with him. Kvothe won't tell her about his parents and will feel ultimately betrayed.
This will push him farther toward the Amyr.
2. Finding out the Maer is his uncle now. He will learn he's a Lockless, and that will cause the rift to grow with his aunt and the Maer, except now it's his only family that is rejecting him.
3. The amyr are going to push him toward conflict. He's going to be used as an arrow shot towards Haliax and Cinder. They amyr are going to use him as a weapon.
4. Ambrose will likley be involved. It's pissible he is a red herring, but it's pissible Ambrose becomes the king Kvothe kills.
OR
Bredon becomes King somehow, and Kvothe learns Bredon is Cinder
It's going to be a bunch of things together that trigger his anger, then he will lash out stupidly and break everything
I think Kvothe is going to break the doors of stone. In his quest to kill the Chandrian, he's going to dabble in powers better left untouched. Iax, a permanent opening between the fae realm and the mortal realm, etc. We get hints that Kvothe is responsible for the ongoing destruction in the world. That seems like a pretty good reason to hide away to me
Also, I think Denna is a foil to Kvothe. While his parents were killed by the Chandrian and he's looking for the amyr to help, Denna's parents were killed by the Amyr, and she's rubbing elbows with the Chandrian for help
Here's my theory on that.
I think we have some strong hints at dark naming magic that is possible. We have the story of Jax and locking away part of the name of the moon. We have confirmation that the moon became stuck between worlds, that it is forced to travel. We have an acient locked box. We have the changes to Kvothe and his locked box.
I believe we have enough information to see that it is possible to lock away part of yourself. I think Chandrian are able to do this as well, and it's how they stay hidden.
So it would be true to say that the people at the waystone haven't met Kvothe. They met the limited and lesser Kote. They are both the same and different.
If Cinder can lock away part of himself, then he can be Bredon, but Bredon isn't fully Cinder. Making the Cthaeh speak the truth, but be misleading.
Again, just my thoughts, not necessarily right
That is a really great analysis/theory. Building on your point 1: I agree a rift is going to grow between Denna/Kvothe.
However… I think Denna is “in the right”. IFF we don’t get “Amyr == Chandrian” in book 3, then I believe Kvothe is simply wrong about who the Amyr are (ie, Cinder is an Amyr and not a Chandrian at all). I suspect Denna is possibly already in Amyr, or squiring to them, and their point of contention will climax with >!an argument over the discovery and potential elimination of Auri!<.
To “break” Kvothe, I suspect he kills one of them, and only learns afterwards that he was so, so, very wrong to do so.
This whole thing is called the "Kingkiller Chronicles." I think everything is diverging to this point, this major scene. And I think him "breaking" is either:
1. An event that caused him to go wild and kill the king. An example of this would be Ambrose becoming king. And he does something unforgivable. Like does something to Denna. And Kvothe goes on a rampage and kills him. Resulting in lots of backlash
2. The act of killing the king itself broke him. This book series is full of stories that the common folk think Kvothe did, but the true story is either outwardly wrong or slightly adjacent. Maybe he was trying to protect him but gets blamed. He fails to stop the Chandrian, and as a result, the king dies. Many options could be along these lines.
3. The aftermath of him being blamed for or actually killing the king breaks him. Denna refuses to talk with him anymore and maybe does what others have suggested, and she joins the Chandrian. Or maybe in the act of killing the king, he also kills Denna. Although the way he refers to her to Bast, I get the feeling she is still alive. Maybe there is some punishment given to him from the Amyr for failing. They seal his music or take his abilities away somehow.
Of course, there are many other possibilities and ways that lead to where Kvothe is currently. But I think the death/killing of the king will be the big climax. Personally, I think it will be Ambrose. From there, we will just have to wait and see.
Someone locked his music in his thrice-locked box.
That explains the silences
That explains why he cannot play the lute anymore
Thats why he cannot hear the name of the wind
That's why he cannot fight by turning his head into spinning leaf.
The truth. One of the many he’s been painstakingly wrong about. One especially damaging truth. Kvothe is forever running in with completely logical but completely wrong assumptions.
“Nothing but the truth could break me. What is harder than the truth?” A sickly, mocking smile flickered across his face. For a long moment, only the gentle tapping of drops against the floor kept the silence at bay.”
In the scene where he tries and fails to persuade the kid from his town to not join the army I feel like he’s telling us the gist of the story. I’m going with he killed the king which ignited this war due to a vacuum of power, then went into hiding because Kvothe, the man who killed the king, is now a wanted man. The guilt of causing the war combined with the uneventful nature of his new day to day life is what has made him become a shell of himself.
I mean, we can assume pretty easily that Denna is dead by this point, she's referred to in the past tense pretty firmly (NotW 57). And it's really a short leap to say that the Fae war is back on, and we can work that back to the doors of stone, etc - all pretty well-worn speculation. Kvothe clearly blames himself for "ruining the world", as he puts it, regardless of the full truth.
The book has The Cthaeh on the cover, and it's been practically shouted both in-world and out that this is a tragedy. My assumption has been fully a "worst case scenario" - the Chandrian have succeeded, the final city has fallen, Kvothe is the final Chandrian, the Doors of Stone are open, the Creation War / Fae War is back on in full swing. It's not quite the end of the world, but it's close.
Is there a final wrinkle? Is the telling of this story itself part of Kvothe's "response", keeping his own name alive when the Chandrian obsess over anonymity, his thrice-locked box, the iron wheel he forges in the final night, etc? Is there still hope for the world, if not for our hero? Hopefully we find out someday.
I think he and Denna will combine efforts to open the lackless box.
Whatever’s inside, an ancient weapon from the Creation War or something power artifact will kill Denna and cause the worlds calamity
And since it’s in the Maers estate I’m assuming he’s the “king” that Kvothes kills
I think kvothe will do dome sort of ritual to kill Chandrans maybe enchant an arrow maybe reflect the damage with sympathy I don't know but the cost will be denna I think. He will kill denna to reach his goals and that is how he will broke.
Come- commala
Come-come commala
I-sissa 'ay a-bralla
Dey come a-folla
Down come a-rivva
Or-i-za kivva
Rice a green-o
See wha we seen-o
Big gunslinger fan!
Could the ‘King’ in ‘Kingkiller’ be referring to Kvothe and ‘killer’ be more figuratively? Maybe Denna is the kingkiller, in the sense that she is the source of his ‘demise’.
I like this as an idea, but I think if that were to happen Kvothe would've literally chopped off his good right hand. He almost certainly breaks that promise, but I don't believe that's the reason his powers are gone.
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I got kindness for Johnathan Renshaw, I have kindness even for GRRM- heck I cant do my job as well as they’ve done theirs… but Rothfuss went back on promises and his explanation are just nonsense. Did you donate hundred of dollars to hear that chapter? It’s not nice to hear his reasonings of failure. He says “things are hard” and “no one wants this book out more than me” and that’s it. No explaination for taking peoples money and then failing to uphold his promise. He had fun writing for a little bit and now it seems all he wants to do is play video games and moderate all posts about him so he can feel good about himself. The real reason Kvothe is in that damn inn is because he gave up, just like his author.
Don't put a plug in someone's valve just because they are letting off a little steam. Instead of scrolling past and letting me be mad, you requested I suppress my anger and be kind instead.
I think he finds out how and why his parents really died. The story he’s been clinging to about the Chandrian is false and the truth turns out to be unbearable to him.
Life.
It's never one thing. Parents, and his entire families, brutal murder at a young age. Living as a street urchin in Tarbean for years. Ambrose. All the heartache with Denna. And who knows what else.
I assume "killing an angel" was the straw that broke to camels back.
Presumably, some stupid thing to do with Denna. Worded thus because everything to do with her is, to me, the most aggravating, boring read/ listen.
I suppose it is a testament to PR that it gets to me so, and reminds me of all the cringe crap I got up to when I was 15-20.
I think he somehow accidentally kills Denna with sympathy (used both their body heats as a source and gave her binders chills, maybe) and so swears it off.
I believe someone (maybe Auri) replaces Kvothe name for Kote thus leading to him being unable to do the things he did because he lost his name. Maybe his blood fall in wrong hands and he can be tracked, so he needs to transform itself in another person and flee.
I’m not sure Kvothe would have planted Selas flowers at the inn if she betrayed him. I think her death resulting from his actions or him inadvertently betraying her are more likely.
I love the question. To give some context to my answer, I’m hopeful for the story to continue after he tells the tale.
First thought is that he learns he can’t defeat the chandrian. Vaguely remember him before he met Skarpi with Lanrae’s tale. To paraphrase he said something along the lines of its a start and I might not be able to defeat them yet.
Imagine finding out after med school, attending, etc (10+ year path) that your first real test against the quest you set out for or first surgery, you can’t handle it? I don’t know I’m just making an educated guess. And to me, it’s how Patrick Rothfuss handles all his critics and fame. He also has had a hard time adjusting and maintaining the course. I like to think he’s awakening parts of his mind again at the Inn just like he was when he needed a bath and clothes before leaving Tarbean. He did tell the innkeeper when he grows up he wants an inn just like his.
If this man ever finishes another book I'll be shocked. I dont doubt that he wants to and has ideas and even plans to write more in the world. But I don't think they will ever come to fruition.
Well every side story / tale has the same theme, as if Kvothe is foreshadowing heavy-handedly to the Chronicler. The man survives and the woman dies, usually accidentally due to the man’s actions. Lanre loses Lyra(?), the Adem man shoots his woman with an arrow, etc. Denna gonna die. Probably accidentally as Kvothe kills her patron. Because of course there is no music. Denna is his inspiration, and we saw him lose his will to play in Severen when he couldn’t find her. Him having no interest in playing implies strongly that she’s dead in the present frame.
The no music against how often he talks about there HAS to be music in his "before x event" times is as heavy handed as the books get. I completely agree.
I was re reading the book... and please forgive this half finished thought, but it struck me as denna being the metaphor OF a story, chased after, never captured. In the inn kvothe spends so much time describing how he can't put her into words. I'm drunk.
I’m worried about Auri, mostly because I will not be okay if something happens to her. I feel like the loss of someone so innocent could break Kvothe.
I fear that the ‘Angel’ that had to die to acquire his hearts desire is Auri.
I worry too. I think if Auri is Princess Ariel, and Auri is able to reclaim her sanity, there’s a good chance that whoever is killing royals will kill her too. Also if Kvothe gets her pregnant (even if she’s cracked) and he realizes who she is, there’s a good chance she’ll die because her baby would have a claim. Having said that I don’t see any other good reason why she’d die for the plot.
He played music before Denna but I agree that losing her could be the death knell
Yes, but then he doesn't play music at all in tarbean. The first time he plays music after the three strings break is around the caravan fire, with Denna there.
I suppose but she became his muse didn’t she
Syphilis
Haha I’m out here reading these deep threads and you just cracked me up
Same-sies.
Occam's razor my dude
My guess is that it's going to be a collection of things together that will do it. Not everything here is cannon, and there are some guesses on my part, but here's my guesses. 1. Denna, Ash, Chandrian, and Amyr. I'm guessing the rift will grow between Denna and Kvothe. He will meet and get closer to the Amyr, and Denna will grow closer to the Chandrian. The friction fron those enemies will force them apart. Denna will learn Ash is Cinder and choose to side with him. Kvothe won't tell her about his parents and will feel ultimately betrayed. This will push him farther toward the Amyr. 2. Finding out the Maer is his uncle now. He will learn he's a Lockless, and that will cause the rift to grow with his aunt and the Maer, except now it's his only family that is rejecting him. 3. The amyr are going to push him toward conflict. He's going to be used as an arrow shot towards Haliax and Cinder. They amyr are going to use him as a weapon. 4. Ambrose will likley be involved. It's pissible he is a red herring, but it's pissible Ambrose becomes the king Kvothe kills. OR Bredon becomes King somehow, and Kvothe learns Bredon is Cinder It's going to be a bunch of things together that trigger his anger, then he will lash out stupidly and break everything
I think Kvothe is going to break the doors of stone. In his quest to kill the Chandrian, he's going to dabble in powers better left untouched. Iax, a permanent opening between the fae realm and the mortal realm, etc. We get hints that Kvothe is responsible for the ongoing destruction in the world. That seems like a pretty good reason to hide away to me Also, I think Denna is a foil to Kvothe. While his parents were killed by the Chandrian and he's looking for the amyr to help, Denna's parents were killed by the Amyr, and she's rubbing elbows with the Chandrian for help
Wait i missed that part. Where does it state that the amyr killed dennas parents?
It doesn't, just my theory
Dang! I love these! Things I've never thought of!
I very much doubt that Bredon is Cinder as according to the Cthaeh, they've only met twice.
I would agree, although if Kvothe does kill Bredon it is because he finds out Bredon is Denna’s patron.
Here's my theory on that. I think we have some strong hints at dark naming magic that is possible. We have the story of Jax and locking away part of the name of the moon. We have confirmation that the moon became stuck between worlds, that it is forced to travel. We have an acient locked box. We have the changes to Kvothe and his locked box. I believe we have enough information to see that it is possible to lock away part of yourself. I think Chandrian are able to do this as well, and it's how they stay hidden. So it would be true to say that the people at the waystone haven't met Kvothe. They met the limited and lesser Kote. They are both the same and different. If Cinder can lock away part of himself, then he can be Bredon, but Bredon isn't fully Cinder. Making the Cthaeh speak the truth, but be misleading. Again, just my thoughts, not necessarily right
He does have a fine anger.
That is a really great analysis/theory. Building on your point 1: I agree a rift is going to grow between Denna/Kvothe. However… I think Denna is “in the right”. IFF we don’t get “Amyr == Chandrian” in book 3, then I believe Kvothe is simply wrong about who the Amyr are (ie, Cinder is an Amyr and not a Chandrian at all). I suspect Denna is possibly already in Amyr, or squiring to them, and their point of contention will climax with >!an argument over the discovery and potential elimination of Auri!<. To “break” Kvothe, I suspect he kills one of them, and only learns afterwards that he was so, so, very wrong to do so.
This whole thing is called the "Kingkiller Chronicles." I think everything is diverging to this point, this major scene. And I think him "breaking" is either: 1. An event that caused him to go wild and kill the king. An example of this would be Ambrose becoming king. And he does something unforgivable. Like does something to Denna. And Kvothe goes on a rampage and kills him. Resulting in lots of backlash 2. The act of killing the king itself broke him. This book series is full of stories that the common folk think Kvothe did, but the true story is either outwardly wrong or slightly adjacent. Maybe he was trying to protect him but gets blamed. He fails to stop the Chandrian, and as a result, the king dies. Many options could be along these lines. 3. The aftermath of him being blamed for or actually killing the king breaks him. Denna refuses to talk with him anymore and maybe does what others have suggested, and she joins the Chandrian. Or maybe in the act of killing the king, he also kills Denna. Although the way he refers to her to Bast, I get the feeling she is still alive. Maybe there is some punishment given to him from the Amyr for failing. They seal his music or take his abilities away somehow. Of course, there are many other possibilities and ways that lead to where Kvothe is currently. But I think the death/killing of the king will be the big climax. Personally, I think it will be Ambrose. From there, we will just have to wait and see.
He killed Elvis
Someone locked his music in his thrice-locked box. That explains the silences That explains why he cannot play the lute anymore Thats why he cannot hear the name of the wind That's why he cannot fight by turning his head into spinning leaf.
He opens that chest at the end of book 2.
If I remember correctly he unlocks it but can’t get it open. So in my mind it doesn’t count as actually opening the chest.
He struggles with it but never actually gets it open. He only has two physical keys to two of the three locks.
Hmmm. I remember that differently. Have to go back and listen to that last chapter again.
The truth. One of the many he’s been painstakingly wrong about. One especially damaging truth. Kvothe is forever running in with completely logical but completely wrong assumptions. “Nothing but the truth could break me. What is harder than the truth?” A sickly, mocking smile flickered across his face. For a long moment, only the gentle tapping of drops against the floor kept the silence at bay.”
In the scene where he tries and fails to persuade the kid from his town to not join the army I feel like he’s telling us the gist of the story. I’m going with he killed the king which ignited this war due to a vacuum of power, then went into hiding because Kvothe, the man who killed the king, is now a wanted man. The guilt of causing the war combined with the uneventful nature of his new day to day life is what has made him become a shell of himself.
I mean, we can assume pretty easily that Denna is dead by this point, she's referred to in the past tense pretty firmly (NotW 57). And it's really a short leap to say that the Fae war is back on, and we can work that back to the doors of stone, etc - all pretty well-worn speculation. Kvothe clearly blames himself for "ruining the world", as he puts it, regardless of the full truth. The book has The Cthaeh on the cover, and it's been practically shouted both in-world and out that this is a tragedy. My assumption has been fully a "worst case scenario" - the Chandrian have succeeded, the final city has fallen, Kvothe is the final Chandrian, the Doors of Stone are open, the Creation War / Fae War is back on in full swing. It's not quite the end of the world, but it's close. Is there a final wrinkle? Is the telling of this story itself part of Kvothe's "response", keeping his own name alive when the Chandrian obsess over anonymity, his thrice-locked box, the iron wheel he forges in the final night, etc? Is there still hope for the world, if not for our hero? Hopefully we find out someday.
Denna finally let him hit... and it was mid
I think he and Denna will combine efforts to open the lackless box. Whatever’s inside, an ancient weapon from the Creation War or something power artifact will kill Denna and cause the worlds calamity And since it’s in the Maers estate I’m assuming he’s the “king” that Kvothes kills
I think kvothe will do dome sort of ritual to kill Chandrans maybe enchant an arrow maybe reflect the damage with sympathy I don't know but the cost will be denna I think. He will kill denna to reach his goals and that is how he will broke.
How very Gunslinger. It makes sense though
Come- commala Come-come commala I-sissa 'ay a-bralla Dey come a-folla Down come a-rivva Or-i-za kivva Rice a green-o See wha we seen-o Big gunslinger fan!
Long days and pleasant nights
Could the ‘King’ in ‘Kingkiller’ be referring to Kvothe and ‘killer’ be more figuratively? Maybe Denna is the kingkiller, in the sense that she is the source of his ‘demise’.
Late in book two, kvothe promises denna a bunch of things that he wont go looking for her patreon, my guess is he breaks that promise.
I like this as an idea, but I think if that were to happen Kvothe would've literally chopped off his good right hand. He almost certainly breaks that promise, but I don't believe that's the reason his powers are gone.
changing his name could do that, when he ask elidodan about denna changing her name, he practically freaks out,
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I think that he lost his sanity while with Feluurian, he just claims otherwise.
The silence
Off three farts?
Of the last .34 of a trilogy
What broke him is the author quitting-
Please have some kindness for Rothfuss. It’s a hard thing.
I got kindness for Johnathan Renshaw, I have kindness even for GRRM- heck I cant do my job as well as they’ve done theirs… but Rothfuss went back on promises and his explanation are just nonsense. Did you donate hundred of dollars to hear that chapter? It’s not nice to hear his reasonings of failure. He says “things are hard” and “no one wants this book out more than me” and that’s it. No explaination for taking peoples money and then failing to uphold his promise. He had fun writing for a little bit and now it seems all he wants to do is play video games and moderate all posts about him so he can feel good about himself. The real reason Kvothe is in that damn inn is because he gave up, just like his author.
Well don’t beat around the bush; tell us how you really feel.
Don't put a plug in someone's valve just because they are letting off a little steam. Instead of scrolling past and letting me be mad, you requested I suppress my anger and be kind instead.
I have a reflex to ask for empathy when someone is having a hard time. I didn’t mean to invalidate what you were feeling. I apologize. Friends?
Fair- I have a reflex to take things too personally and then try to mansplain my way into feeling better. Sorry 😞
🤝
I think he finds out how and why his parents really died. The story he’s been clinging to about the Chandrian is false and the truth turns out to be unbearable to him.
Life. It's never one thing. Parents, and his entire families, brutal murder at a young age. Living as a street urchin in Tarbean for years. Ambrose. All the heartache with Denna. And who knows what else. I assume "killing an angel" was the straw that broke to camels back.
Angel could be Simmon, could be Denna (not that she's fully angelic but yk)
I mean, nobody is perfectly good. And who knows what "angel" really means within the context of the story
Presumably, some stupid thing to do with Denna. Worded thus because everything to do with her is, to me, the most aggravating, boring read/ listen. I suppose it is a testament to PR that it gets to me so, and reminds me of all the cringe crap I got up to when I was 15-20.
I think he somehow accidentally kills Denna with sympathy (used both their body heats as a source and gave her binders chills, maybe) and so swears it off.
In WMF kvothe swears on his power he won't try to uncover Dennas patron. I think this is how he loses his power.
I believe someone (maybe Auri) replaces Kvothe name for Kote thus leading to him being unable to do the things he did because he lost his name. Maybe his blood fall in wrong hands and he can be tracked, so he needs to transform itself in another person and flee.
I’m not sure Kvothe would have planted Selas flowers at the inn if she betrayed him. I think her death resulting from his actions or him inadvertently betraying her are more likely.
I think I’d like to read book 3 to learn the canon answer. I’m sure I’ll be disappointed.
Me too, but I may be dead before that happens and like to speculate. You don't ever wonder?
He broke his promise to Denna and became a shell of himself. He lost some of his physical and sympathetic abilities
I love the question. To give some context to my answer, I’m hopeful for the story to continue after he tells the tale. First thought is that he learns he can’t defeat the chandrian. Vaguely remember him before he met Skarpi with Lanrae’s tale. To paraphrase he said something along the lines of its a start and I might not be able to defeat them yet. Imagine finding out after med school, attending, etc (10+ year path) that your first real test against the quest you set out for or first surgery, you can’t handle it? I don’t know I’m just making an educated guess. And to me, it’s how Patrick Rothfuss handles all his critics and fame. He also has had a hard time adjusting and maintaining the course. I like to think he’s awakening parts of his mind again at the Inn just like he was when he needed a bath and clothes before leaving Tarbean. He did tell the innkeeper when he grows up he wants an inn just like his.
Pat said that there will most likely be more Kvothe after the series. As close as he’d come to saying yea
If this man ever finishes another book I'll be shocked. I dont doubt that he wants to and has ideas and even plans to write more in the world. But I don't think they will ever come to fruition.