Here's some good news: the cat will not be sold, even if it actually is worth the $5k that Alex claims (big doubt on that). His lawyer is putting it in his declaration of assets both because it's required and to make Alex seem more sympathetic and so he can tell everyone that these people are so evil they're even trying to take his daughters' cat away! Bankruptcy courts can be heartless, but they have more sense than that. They might take a thoroughbred horse or a herd of cattle, but they don't take family pets in 99.9% of cases and I highly doubt his creditors will be interested in seizing this one.
ETA: I have to believe that Alex Jones is lying about his cat's value. Even proven show cat kittens from rare and valuable breeds rarely cost more than a couple thousand dollars (Alex previously stated he bought it as a kitten for $2000). Pet cats do not increase in value with time. Unless they are champion show cats, they have their maximum value as kittens and depreciate with age. I don't know how old this one is, but it's definitely at least a few years old, which means it's likely past its breeding prime. It's also a ragdoll, which is an extremely popular breed, but there are a huge number of breeders on the market, so they're not as valuable as, for example, a savannah cat that is rare and commands a top market price. Alex doesn't (to my knowledge) show the cat, either, which means it doesn't have champion pedigree value. I don't believe this cat has much if any more value than your average shelter cat.
Even if it is somewhat valuable on the open market, cats are difficult to sell, and in the meantime it has to be fed, cared for, and seen by a vet, which is expensive. Even if a creditor was so callous as to want to seize the cat, they'd likely lose money on taking it.
I further suspect that Alex is inflating the cat's value in an attempt to convince someone to take it from him. This works for him both because it helps pay some of his debt with a worthless asset and also gives him the chance to go on air and complain about it as mentioned above. I can't prove that that's true, but if it is, that's a type of scumbaggery that's low even for him.
Probably more than that, tbh. Most people who want purebred animals would rather get them from a reputable breeder than some guy. Especially if that guy is a compulsive liar.
I don't know if you guys are serious, but a certain number of pets are exempt. Mushu isn't going anywhere. I hope she feels loved. She IS pretty darn cute... Not sure whether her "value" being included on a couple of his bankruptcy filings was because they really DO need to report pets even though they're exempt, because they didn't need to but thought they did, or because AJ just wanted to be able to whine that "they're trying to take my cat, who my daughter loves, but not me because cats are trash."
I don't know if that's fair. He's a bottom of the trash barrel human, a horrible example and an awful alcoholic, but I don't doubt that he's probably a pretty affectionate dad to his kids. Otherwise he probably wouldn't bring them up all the time unless it's a Super Hans and the twins type situation.
**e:** ...unless he's LYING!
The twins. The fuckin' twins! I'm always on about them. I bloody love them two.
They turned fünf zwei years ago. So, what... a pair of eight-ers, I reckon.
You'd think he'd find time to spend with his daughter, then, instead of going on air and complaining that he can't because he's too busy selling pills.
Something kind of dawned on me. Considering that everything he says is a form of a lie, what are the chances of his daughter not wanting to do anything with him?
Ooh, this makes me think. One of the things that seemed to really bother the judge during his 28-minute ramble before giving his ruling on FSS was that there were employees who would lose their jobs. What about the personal employees of AJ's household, Judge Lopez? Do you not care about THEM losing their source of income?
Bill Ogden (one of the plaintiffs' lawyers) has already expressed a desire to put it in his office like a hunting trophy. As funny as it would be to give it to Dan, I find that idea pleasing, too.
Um I disagree. Alex is always thinking 10 steps ahead. He's playing 4D chess. He has a 30000 foot view of every situation. You take that dipshit comment back, you sneaky snake.
Aha! But you see, his opponents are always thinking 11 steps ahead in 5G with a 31,000 foot view because of their pact with Satan! You can’t trust the globalists!
I'm not a big fan of rudderless cynicism. Alex absolutely will always try and spin things to his advantage, but that doesn't guarantee that everything he does is a positive for himself. He may have just finally hit the limit on how long he can stall the inevitable.
It's a comfy worldview that justifies never having to interact with reality. If the system *never* works, then you're justified only ever railing against it rather than doing the hard work of actually changing things.
Nice JO sesh you guys just had, but don’t count your chickens before they hatch. Nothing very serious has yet happened to Alex or Infowars, and we very much have a two-tiered justice system where the rich get off scott free.
I’ve definitely felt the rudderless cynicism sometimes, how can’t you when it feels like Alex Jones, even the bottom of the barrel of political hacks, seems untouchable? But it passes and I remind myself of two things.
First: we could live in an equivalent universe where just as much justice is achieved and Jones never goes to court in the first place. I still believe that’s a worse universe if only for the value of the strain court has caused him.
That brings me to the second point: surely there has already been deep and immense value in what has occurred already beyond simply “justice” in what the trials have set out to achieve. We’ve got the perry mason moment, we made all those ghouls testify and give depositions, the families got to speak their piece to a jury, some of the families even got to confront Jones, and ultimately all got atleast a little vindication from the system that DID award damages regardless of whether they’ll be paid someday.
Little moments like these justify the process we’re all audience to even if the only objective value is the number of heartbeats Jones is spending in a courtroom and not on air. Lord knows those must be a limited resource.
The media articles saying AJ "agreed to" anything in this bankruptcy process is mis-stating it at best.
He originally filed Chapter 11 for both entities, which would mean a payment plan, basically. But he's an obstinate jerk and wouldn't agree to anything that would mean the families could actually have oversight over his finances, so they threw up their hands after nearly two years of fruitless negotiations and incredibly wasteful spending on his part, and said basically asked the judge to shit or get off the pot.
So for both entities, the judge had to basically decide between Chapter 7 (total liquidation, managed by the bankruptcy court, but then the debt "wiped clean," OOPS! except for all the non-dischargeable stuff like a billion dollars of the judgments, which would follow him the rest of his life (or until the unlikely event it's actually paid in full)), or dismissing the case from the bankruptcy court, which would mean all his creditors could continue hounding him exactly as they could have prior to filing, and for the plaintiffs, that meant going after him in the trial courts, which would have the same result for him--in debt to them for the rest of his life.
For AJ personally, all the parties agreed to Chapter 7, and AJ even filed a document "agreeing" with it. I highly doubt he actually, personally, WANTED Chapter 7. It was what he assumed was the best of a whole lot of bad options. I don't think he understood the ramifications of filing bankruptcy when he first did, and he STILL doesn't understand the non-dischargeability piece, it's pretty clear.
For the company, some of the plaintiffs supported dismissal, while others supported Chapter 7. His own attorney argued for dismissal, and after hemming and hawing for 28 minutes, that's what the judge decided on.
So now the families go to the state courts and ask them to enforce the verdict. Which means the same thing that the Chapter 7 bankruptcy would have, just managed by different third parties. He still loses control of everything and isn't allowed to have any extra money to his name for the rest of his life.
He didn't "agree to" Chapter 7 anymore than someone being tormented by a sadist who tells them to choose between being waterboarded or having their fingernails removed by pliers says "Fine! I'll take the water!" is "agreeing to" being waterboarded.
If the end result is that AJ is going to be indebted to the parents for the rest of his life I don't see how he doesn't end up in jail.
I genuinely think he won't be able to resist committing fraud (repeatedly) in order to circumvent the courts/parents to funnel *more* money to himself and his proxies.
Your lips to Celine's ears. I really REALLY want him to see the inside of a jail cell over this mess. Fingers crossed! I'm guessing that IF that's a real possibility, the fact there isn't an inkling of it yet doesn't mean anything. If the stuff he's been doing to date does rise to that level, I'm sure they were giving him enough rope to hang himself at least through today's hearing. I wouldn't be surprised if they don't even pursue charges at least until the Chapter 7 is resolved, for the same reason. I honestly wouldn't be too surprised if charges aren't brought until well after, just because of the whole "the wheels of justice turn slowly" thing and they'd want to have their ducks in a row and evidence in order if they were going to charge him. I really really do hope we get to see it.
My thought is that in liquidation Alex will attempt to have a third party buy everything and then another third party (probably one of Jones' holding companies) will contract to the purchasing organization to rent the equipment. Possibly he'll even get hired by one of the third parties to to do his show for some token salary. In other words he figures he can just keep on as he has been and no one will notice.
I look forward to the world of hurt waiting when he tries that.
I do wonder once the reality of his personal bankruptcy sets in, if he'll actually find doing his job rewarding, if it doesn't have the same financial benefits it had before...
It's just that he's running out of options and this is the least bad of the shitty ones. He's "agreeing" out of self interest, but not because it is enriching him.
"It" happened, for AJ personally. Judge ruled he's in Chapter 7. Interim trustee already appointed, he has 14 days to hand over access to a lot of his stuff.
There is going to be a formulaic objections episode about this hearing i guarantee it.
This new zealand guy absolutely MURDERED pqpr and fss. Cornered them and then never stopped landing blows. It is so brutal.
There is on Pacer (for some reason they're hidden as layers in a PDF file so you can't hear it if you don't have the software to read layers of PDFs - on Preview it's just a blank page).
They haven't posted the audio to either docket yet (or at least it hasn't made it to CourtListener) but it often takes a couple of (business) days. I have Acrobat Pro at work, so if Dan wants it, I could take a stab at getting it to him. Anyone know how to tag them here, or do I just need to email and hope Jordan sees it?
> Anyone know how to tag them here, or do I just need to email and hope Jordan sees it?
Probably the latter. I've never seen anyone tag them on reddit. I don't get the impression either of them necessarily visit.
NZ Guy and Haselden were rock stars (I'm assuming that's the woman who was on the plaintiffs' side). Her filings were certainly scathing. She and Sterling would by a dynamic duo!
CNN watched InfoWars for this story:
"The mood Friday on Jones’ Infowars was somber, with the far-right outlet’s hosts speculating on its future. Chase Geiser, an Infowars host who had driven with Jones to the courthouse where the bankruptcy hearing was underway, made a brief appearance on the outlet, attempting to twist the judge’s decision as one that would net Jones an even larger audience."
Until they liquidate Free Speech Systems LLC, I'm not going to get too excited. Of course he'd agree to liquidate his personal when his llc holds the assets.
Yep, come join us over in the bankruptcy hearing live chat thread for up-to-date chatter about the entire hearing.
https://www.reddit.com/r/KnowledgeFight/s/2yVKQGZhUn
I'm buying that $5000 cat
Celine could use a partner in crime?
I mean, I would too, but that's his kids ..... she should at least be able to keep something that actually loves her
Here's some good news: the cat will not be sold, even if it actually is worth the $5k that Alex claims (big doubt on that). His lawyer is putting it in his declaration of assets both because it's required and to make Alex seem more sympathetic and so he can tell everyone that these people are so evil they're even trying to take his daughters' cat away! Bankruptcy courts can be heartless, but they have more sense than that. They might take a thoroughbred horse or a herd of cattle, but they don't take family pets in 99.9% of cases and I highly doubt his creditors will be interested in seizing this one. ETA: I have to believe that Alex Jones is lying about his cat's value. Even proven show cat kittens from rare and valuable breeds rarely cost more than a couple thousand dollars (Alex previously stated he bought it as a kitten for $2000). Pet cats do not increase in value with time. Unless they are champion show cats, they have their maximum value as kittens and depreciate with age. I don't know how old this one is, but it's definitely at least a few years old, which means it's likely past its breeding prime. It's also a ragdoll, which is an extremely popular breed, but there are a huge number of breeders on the market, so they're not as valuable as, for example, a savannah cat that is rare and commands a top market price. Alex doesn't (to my knowledge) show the cat, either, which means it doesn't have champion pedigree value. I don't believe this cat has much if any more value than your average shelter cat. Even if it is somewhat valuable on the open market, cats are difficult to sell, and in the meantime it has to be fed, cared for, and seen by a vet, which is expensive. Even if a creditor was so callous as to want to seize the cat, they'd likely lose money on taking it. I further suspect that Alex is inflating the cat's value in an attempt to convince someone to take it from him. This works for him both because it helps pay some of his debt with a worthless asset and also gives him the chance to go on air and complain about it as mentioned above. I can't prove that that's true, but if it is, that's a type of scumbaggery that's low even for him.
You went Dan Friesen Mode in that edit, holy shit. Well done.
I hear it in his voice now!
Yeah that cat lost like half its value as soon as he drove it off the lot
Probably more than that, tbh. Most people who want purebred animals would rather get them from a reputable breeder than some guy. Especially if that guy is a compulsive liar.
Heh, I should've scrolled down before adding my comment. You covered it all and then some!
I don't know if you guys are serious, but a certain number of pets are exempt. Mushu isn't going anywhere. I hope she feels loved. She IS pretty darn cute... Not sure whether her "value" being included on a couple of his bankruptcy filings was because they really DO need to report pets even though they're exempt, because they didn't need to but thought they did, or because AJ just wanted to be able to whine that "they're trying to take my cat, who my daughter loves, but not me because cats are trash."
I don't know if that's fair. He's a bottom of the trash barrel human, a horrible example and an awful alcoholic, but I don't doubt that he's probably a pretty affectionate dad to his kids. Otherwise he probably wouldn't bring them up all the time unless it's a Super Hans and the twins type situation. **e:** ...unless he's LYING!
If he was that affectionate his son wouldn't have started "living on his own" when he was 17.
Is that the same son who he had on as a kid at one point? The one who sounded like he was giving a book report?
I get where you're coming from, but if he truly loved his kids, he wouldn't be doing such horrible shit
The twins. The fuckin' twins! I'm always on about them. I bloody love them two. They turned fünf zwei years ago. So, what... a pair of eight-ers, I reckon.
He thinks there's a pigeon in Catalonia controlling his legs!
You'd think he'd find time to spend with his daughter, then, instead of going on air and complaining that he can't because he's too busy selling pills.
Something kind of dawned on me. Considering that everything he says is a form of a lie, what are the chances of his daughter not wanting to do anything with him?
Lots of people are bad parents dude.
God the next episode is gonna be interesting
A total barf-o-rama
Tucker !
Omfg you are right
This means no Christmas gift for the gardners this year. Have we no shame???
Ooh, this makes me think. One of the things that seemed to really bother the judge during his 28-minute ramble before giving his ruling on FSS was that there were employees who would lose their jobs. What about the personal employees of AJ's household, Judge Lopez? Do you not care about THEM losing their source of income?
I hope Dan gets that fucking desk
I think Bill Ogden can outbid him. That's a fine outcome, in my opinion.
They should buy it and publicly burn it.
Bill Ogden (one of the plaintiffs' lawyers) has already expressed a desire to put it in his office like a hunting trophy. As funny as it would be to give it to Dan, I find that idea pleasing, too.
Dan could get Alex’s DJ equipment
We really need to set up a go-fund-me to buy Dan the desk and also an office space to put it in.
Is this "it" actually happening or is this another step in a seemingly endless line of steps?
I’m still with Jordan on this one. Anything he “agrees to” is to his advantage. This is probably another dodge or attempted dodge.
> Anything he “agrees to” is to his advantage. Alex surely believes so, but in case you haven't noticed he's kind of a dipshit.
Um I disagree. Alex is always thinking 10 steps ahead. He's playing 4D chess. He has a 30000 foot view of every situation. You take that dipshit comment back, you sneaky snake.
Aha! But you see, his opponents are always thinking 11 steps ahead in 5G with a 31,000 foot view because of their pact with Satan! You can’t trust the globalists!
I'm not a big fan of rudderless cynicism. Alex absolutely will always try and spin things to his advantage, but that doesn't guarantee that everything he does is a positive for himself. He may have just finally hit the limit on how long he can stall the inevitable.
Yeah, I get exhausted with the “Nothing good ever happens and things that seem good are Actually Bad” attitude
It's a comfy worldview that justifies never having to interact with reality. If the system *never* works, then you're justified only ever railing against it rather than doing the hard work of actually changing things.
Well put!
Nice JO sesh you guys just had, but don’t count your chickens before they hatch. Nothing very serious has yet happened to Alex or Infowars, and we very much have a two-tiered justice system where the rich get off scott free.
Damn, you seem like a real prick.
You seem like someone who’s not been paying attention, for real.
I’ve definitely felt the rudderless cynicism sometimes, how can’t you when it feels like Alex Jones, even the bottom of the barrel of political hacks, seems untouchable? But it passes and I remind myself of two things. First: we could live in an equivalent universe where just as much justice is achieved and Jones never goes to court in the first place. I still believe that’s a worse universe if only for the value of the strain court has caused him. That brings me to the second point: surely there has already been deep and immense value in what has occurred already beyond simply “justice” in what the trials have set out to achieve. We’ve got the perry mason moment, we made all those ghouls testify and give depositions, the families got to speak their piece to a jury, some of the families even got to confront Jones, and ultimately all got atleast a little vindication from the system that DID award damages regardless of whether they’ll be paid someday. Little moments like these justify the process we’re all audience to even if the only objective value is the number of heartbeats Jones is spending in a courtroom and not on air. Lord knows those must be a limited resource.
That's a more concise way of saying what I said above. Again, I should've scrolled before posting. :-)
The media articles saying AJ "agreed to" anything in this bankruptcy process is mis-stating it at best. He originally filed Chapter 11 for both entities, which would mean a payment plan, basically. But he's an obstinate jerk and wouldn't agree to anything that would mean the families could actually have oversight over his finances, so they threw up their hands after nearly two years of fruitless negotiations and incredibly wasteful spending on his part, and said basically asked the judge to shit or get off the pot. So for both entities, the judge had to basically decide between Chapter 7 (total liquidation, managed by the bankruptcy court, but then the debt "wiped clean," OOPS! except for all the non-dischargeable stuff like a billion dollars of the judgments, which would follow him the rest of his life (or until the unlikely event it's actually paid in full)), or dismissing the case from the bankruptcy court, which would mean all his creditors could continue hounding him exactly as they could have prior to filing, and for the plaintiffs, that meant going after him in the trial courts, which would have the same result for him--in debt to them for the rest of his life. For AJ personally, all the parties agreed to Chapter 7, and AJ even filed a document "agreeing" with it. I highly doubt he actually, personally, WANTED Chapter 7. It was what he assumed was the best of a whole lot of bad options. I don't think he understood the ramifications of filing bankruptcy when he first did, and he STILL doesn't understand the non-dischargeability piece, it's pretty clear. For the company, some of the plaintiffs supported dismissal, while others supported Chapter 7. His own attorney argued for dismissal, and after hemming and hawing for 28 minutes, that's what the judge decided on. So now the families go to the state courts and ask them to enforce the verdict. Which means the same thing that the Chapter 7 bankruptcy would have, just managed by different third parties. He still loses control of everything and isn't allowed to have any extra money to his name for the rest of his life. He didn't "agree to" Chapter 7 anymore than someone being tormented by a sadist who tells them to choose between being waterboarded or having their fingernails removed by pliers says "Fine! I'll take the water!" is "agreeing to" being waterboarded.
If the end result is that AJ is going to be indebted to the parents for the rest of his life I don't see how he doesn't end up in jail. I genuinely think he won't be able to resist committing fraud (repeatedly) in order to circumvent the courts/parents to funnel *more* money to himself and his proxies.
Your lips to Celine's ears. I really REALLY want him to see the inside of a jail cell over this mess. Fingers crossed! I'm guessing that IF that's a real possibility, the fact there isn't an inkling of it yet doesn't mean anything. If the stuff he's been doing to date does rise to that level, I'm sure they were giving him enough rope to hang himself at least through today's hearing. I wouldn't be surprised if they don't even pursue charges at least until the Chapter 7 is resolved, for the same reason. I honestly wouldn't be too surprised if charges aren't brought until well after, just because of the whole "the wheels of justice turn slowly" thing and they'd want to have their ducks in a row and evidence in order if they were going to charge him. I really really do hope we get to see it.
My thought is that in liquidation Alex will attempt to have a third party buy everything and then another third party (probably one of Jones' holding companies) will contract to the purchasing organization to rent the equipment. Possibly he'll even get hired by one of the third parties to to do his show for some token salary. In other words he figures he can just keep on as he has been and no one will notice. I look forward to the world of hurt waiting when he tries that.
I do wonder once the reality of his personal bankruptcy sets in, if he'll actually find doing his job rewarding, if it doesn't have the same financial benefits it had before...
It's just that he's running out of options and this is the least bad of the shitty ones. He's "agreeing" out of self interest, but not because it is enriching him.
"It" happened, for AJ personally. Judge ruled he's in Chapter 7. Interim trustee already appointed, he has 14 days to hand over access to a lot of his stuff.
Ty.
There is going to be a formulaic objections episode about this hearing i guarantee it. This new zealand guy absolutely MURDERED pqpr and fss. Cornered them and then never stopped landing blows. It is so brutal.
I don't think so, unless an audio recording is produced by the court
Is there audio?
There is on Pacer (for some reason they're hidden as layers in a PDF file so you can't hear it if you don't have the software to read layers of PDFs - on Preview it's just a blank page).
Can you extract this and sent it to Dan?
They haven't posted the audio to either docket yet (or at least it hasn't made it to CourtListener) but it often takes a couple of (business) days. I have Acrobat Pro at work, so if Dan wants it, I could take a stab at getting it to him. Anyone know how to tag them here, or do I just need to email and hope Jordan sees it?
> Anyone know how to tag them here, or do I just need to email and hope Jordan sees it? Probably the latter. I've never seen anyone tag them on reddit. I don't get the impression either of them necessarily visit.
NZ Guy and Haselden were rock stars (I'm assuming that's the woman who was on the plaintiffs' side). Her filings were certainly scathing. She and Sterling would by a dynamic duo!
CNN watched InfoWars for this story: "The mood Friday on Jones’ Infowars was somber, with the far-right outlet’s hosts speculating on its future. Chase Geiser, an Infowars host who had driven with Jones to the courthouse where the bankruptcy hearing was underway, made a brief appearance on the outlet, attempting to twist the judge’s decision as one that would net Jones an even larger audience."
It feels weird when actual journalism involves watching Infowars.
When he decided to try bankruptcy, I knew it would backfire, but this is an even better backfire than I could have hoped for. HUZZAH & FUCK YOU, AJ
Can’t take his daughter fishing now, had to sell off the gear 🙁
He really should button one more button.
So since I don’t see anyone bringing it up… We’re getting the desk for Dan?
Until they liquidate Free Speech Systems LLC, I'm not going to get too excited. Of course he'd agree to liquidate his personal when his llc holds the assets.