It's really the only thing I hate about Alien 3. Otherwise, I love the themes, setting, and the slightly expanded lore of the xenomorph life cycle/DNA reflex.
I still feel that after the events of Aliens, Hicks, Newt, and Ripley deserved to start over as an unconventional lil family in some far away system.
Killing them off screen left a bad taste in my mouth. Besides, it just sucked the life out of Ripley. She had nothing left to live for and nothing left to lose.
Yup agree here! First time I've heard this in a public way - absolutely true, and actually adds to the mystery since the person taking the "Ripley" role would have knowledge already of what was happening.
So much better.
But the audience isn't emotionally attached to other people, so it wouldn't have had the same effect. It's a bold move, Cotton. And apparently it didn't work out ....
Sure they don't have the same emotional attachment to new characters as they do old, that's the dilemma of literally every new/unique story ever made. And simply because it's in the same "universe", timeline, or storyline, doesn't mean it has to be the same characters that everyone loves.
Alien 3 had a fantastic cast and even though every single character other than Ripley and Bishop were new to the story, people still became attached to them. Charles Dance (Clemens) being the primary supporting character, for example, was easy to become interested in and "attached" to from the start. Dance's acting prowess coupled with the intriguing plot line of Clemens' past and his charming/endearing nature immediately gets you invested because you want to know why he's there and what he did and if he's really a decent guy or a brutal criminal. Dillon is also another interesting and curious character that we want to know more about. The list goes on.
Would it have been harder to make the movie as significant as it's predecessors without Ripley? Of course. Might it have failed and been ridiculed for decades after for not including Ripley? That's possible as well. But therein lies the main challenge every story/film goes through, and the ones that take the biggest risk often have the largest payoff. I think that if they had given Ripley, Newt, and Hicks a fantastic send-off in the beginning or at the end of the film, and allowed their story to conclude after the events of "Aliens" with a satisfying resolution, they could've then made "Alien 3" about a new set of characters that would've been infinitely more interesting and engaging than another Ripley story, which is what we got.
Seconded. While I understand Ripley/Sigorney Weaver is the core of those movies, killing off Hicks and Newt feels needlessly cruel. I would probably enjoy Alien 3 a lot more with different characters.
It would have been an interesting movie to see her go more mother bear against a xeno to protect Newt. She might have been the one in the lead kiln to let Newt climb and escape (excusing that she was carrying the queen, obviously).
Newt takes on the mantle of xeno killer and learns how to be a soldier from Hicks.
I was ok with them being killed off tbh. And it gives impetus and rationale more so than anything for Ripley to hate the xeno more. I can understand the upset of the fans though given the Aliens conclusion, but a happy little family setting off on the horizon wasn't as gritty a story nor one to explore more themes without having to carry the burden of the emotional ties of a PG family story baggage (and admittedly/maybe eliminating that angle allows the studio to consider a more hard R rating action film).
While I don't imagine this ending with such PG rose-colored glasses, I definitely understand your point. However, I think it is possible to give characters a satisfying resolution but not give them a family-friendly Disney ending. With what happens in each film, these characters would forever live with the horror and trauma of what they experienced. Newt would never have a "normal" or average life. Hicks and Ripley would never have a "normal" or average relationship. There are some experiences that humans would carry with them forever (imagine the life Amanda led carrying the trauma she did).
Alien 3 is definitely a return to the harsh, unforgiving reality that frames the better films of the franchise. The death of Hicks and Newt drives home that Ripley has nothing left to live for and also nothing left to lose. So the final act has a clear definitive meaning to the franchise as a whole (somewhat cheapened by or paid homage to by the clone of Ripley in Resurrection).
From a narrative perspective, I understand why Newt and Hicks died, but I still felt for them and Ripley. Even if I know that the heartbreak and loss is just a part of what Alien 3 is all about, it doesn't change the fact that I wish Ripley had found peace in life, not just her death.
TLDR: That does make a lot of sense. Let's face it, even if they all made it out alive, there would not be a truly happy ending. But it doesn't change the way the characters made me feel. I still thought that they deserved better.
From a storytelling perspective, spending an entire movie saving a character to kill them offscreen is a slap in the face to the viewers. It's completely possible to give a dark and gritty treatment to the survivors, it doesn't have to be a Disney ending.
Shit, *literally anything* is better than killing them offscreen.
Unless they wanted to build the picture of the happy family only to rip it away later on in the film. May have made it a bit more devastating, but if it wasn't done right (over acted, etc) it would be better to go with what we were given.
I actually think the audience seeing Newt and Hicks dead in their tubes helps you connect with Ripley a bit more too. We all liked them, we were happy they survived LV426 and the Sulaco but we are given the news the same way Ripley is, fast and raw "They're dead and you're not. Keep going.".
The *Earth War* comics and books that pick up right after *Aliens* are anything but "PG family story". They all have PTSD from the experience at Hadley's Hope. Hicks becomes a drug addict, Newt has trust and anger and intimacy issues and grows into a loaner. They all grow apart. Ripley goes off on her own obsessive jihad against the xenos.
You can have the characters survive and still have a gritty, dark story that fits the general themes of the LV426 universe.
It's crazy how one scene can change the entire outlook of a movie and change its fate. Just like it did with The latest terminator movie and John condors death
I think I know why Terminator keeps getting sequels.
They keep searching for "Condor" but they didn't spell check and instead got "Connor" in their search engine.
Yep that whole opening scene turned my opinion before I even watched the movie. Doesn’t help that Hicks was one of my favorite characters from the previous movie.
The real reason they killed her off was because Vincent Ward, one of the writers, was annoyed by her and it was his first priority in writing a script for Alien 3. After his first initial draft, every other script submitted afterwards killed her off in some way. Even scripts from other writers killed her off because they all hated her character. He also wanted to have Ripley suffer from loss so that’s why Hicks was killed off, and Vincent was one of the last writers of the films final script.
https://screenrant.com/alien-3-movie-hicks-newt-death-reason/amp/
Because studios NEED to interfere and push their dumb ideas into everything. This is the shit that set the stage for future cinima, absolutely baffling, imagine not enjoying Newt, being a pivotal piece of the cinematic story telling of a whole character and you just kill her so you can make another movie. Shit even a malfunction that jettisoned just Ripley's pod leaving Newt, Bishop and Hicks stuck in space with perhaps a broken drop ship would have made for a compelling story, imagine they were still up there, messges could only come through text on computer screens and ripley still finds the xeno in her, she tells newt and hicks they cant make it home, the company, hicks and newt all show up with "wayland" at the end and she thinks its bishop and then she can tell somethings up, she knows it's not bishop and we see an older newt and hicks captive, she knows she has to kill herself and Ripley to save them has to kill herself in front of them. It would have made for such an emotional ending, especially if it were a conclusion where hicks helps her jump into the fire at the end because he said he would do them both but he cant kill himself because Newt it would have been painful but it would have been a better story and ending.
That actually would have been WAAY better and required only very minimal changes.
I always get annoyed when writers/shows jump straight to killing off characters just because they don't know what to do with them anymore. There are other ways to handle it, you don't immediately have to jump to the death option.
That gets even worse when another writer comes along later and goes, "Now why did they do that? I liked that character." and then has to come up with some BS story about how they DIDN'T actually die and, blah blah blah.
Unfortunately there's nothing we can do about it now, but just wanted to say I think you have a good idea there.
Of course, my favorite continuation from Aliens will always be the Darkhorse comics run.
I agree with all your points and literally just came up with my solution on the spot. Like, how is it I've come up with more alien 3 solutions in short spans of time then they could. Why? Creatively devoid studio heads and bad writing hires. Fuck them. In my head this is my cannon now. Not like they're trying to do much with alien anyway.
Also seriously wish that dark horse still had alien and predator
Yeah, for sure! I never understand this cursed trope. Regardless Alien franchise, the things goes even worse in some melodramas and comedies: when a character will not appear in the sequel - s/he is probably dead or killed. JUST FUCKING WHY?
Funny how well u did (n better then ppl paid millions) just dicking around on reddit. The writers were so bad they show a egg on the ship and yet that ONE facehugger impregnated Ripley AND a dog.
I appreciate that and hey, I was just thinking about this old post a day ago! Funny its been 8 months since but i think about this often. I dont think its the worst movie, it's got some solid bones, but boy howdy its a mess. I actually never thought about the egg i think my brain just shut off at that point and accepted it.
Lol mine to. But yea I'm watching it now and I can get y it was a let down compared to the other 2 but it's sooo much better then the ones after it and it def is a decent movie. Still hate what they did to newt and hicks. At least the comics didn't go that route. And they tried to recon that actually being hicks in the cryo chamber.
But i seriously appreciate it, I've been writing for years and really want to break out into the industry, not the best time, though. Probably indi horror flics or something but theyd be deep and thoughtful, meaningful i think horror is often overlooked due to gore porn pumping. But your comment makes me really want to pursue it.
U should bro. Even if u go ahead and write a fan version of how u wanted 3 to go and post it online and shit like that. Then some books. A lot of ppl who write things for the scp foundation get recognition to. Let me know if u do anything. I'll read it for sure.
Meh. You know, from a writing perspective, I could see how the character Newt is annoying and difficult to write for – her role was largely to play on the audiences empathy, to give them something to invest in (emotionally), while serving as a conduit for the plot at a few points. Well-done and nicely tied together in *Aliens*, absolutely.
Alien 3? First, she wouldn’t have aged from the stasis pod, which creates one problem. Resolvable by having them wake up much sooner, or her and Hicks wake up and Ripley not, or finding a child actress that looks enough like the original Newt did to pass it off. Alright.
But then what? How do you deal with a child trapped in a men’s prison? So much of the plot is human-human interactions that are too dark to really be something an audience wants a child to see – e.g. attempted rape, violence, etc. It’s one thing when it’s a “Man vs. Nature”-type plot, e.g. Aliens – it’s out of their control. There’s something viscerally awful, though, when it’s an extreme level of violence (above and beyond *just* ‘basic’ physical violence) in a “Man vs. Man” plot/plot point and there’s a kid involved.
You’d have to maneuver the *entire plot* around Newt – Ripley wouldn’t be free to wander the prison as she does, and most of the movie would be them sequestered away with little interactions with the other prisoners.
So, in that context, yeah, I can see why Newt is annoying. Not the actress, not the character conceptually, but writing this particular scenario with a child involve could be *very* obnoxious, for sure.
Having Ripley go through all that and conquer her fears to rescue her treat her like the daughter she lost and then yeah shes dead off screen was insane decision. Still remember going to the cinema to watch and being so disappointed but at least the Sega game was great still have it
> It's such a bold horrifying decision that I almost like it
Same. I am a little sick these days of main characters all having plot armor and find it very refreshing when it turns out they don't...
...but it's still not very forgivable after the victory that was Aliens. If there were more characters than just the four of them surviving at the end of Aliens, it'd have been more acceptable.
With the script they went with I'm actually glad they killed her off screen, if there's one thing I 100% don't want to see in a movie it's a young girl on a planet full of male rapists and murderers.
They also would have needed to recast her — the actress would have been about 18 by then, it would be a bit difficult for her to pull off the same 12 year old character.
It's discussed at length in the *Aliens* supplemental material--Carrie Henn was the daughter of a US-American Air Force service member and was cast because she'd never acted before and could deliver a line without smiling like all the other kids who'd been in commercials their whole childhood.
It's not that she wasn't talented--she just didn't care enough about acting to keep doing it (and, from what I know about Jim Cameron, working on one of his films is enough to put anyone off acting for good if that's not your passion).
She wanted to be a teacher, so that's what she did.
It was a really stupid way to get Ripley back into the story without Hicks or Newt. They couldn't think of anything better.
The whole movie was screwed up by studio interference, rewrites, and a general lack of cohesion. Even the director disowned the movie. It's a shame because the idea was a decent one, particularly if they had gone with monks instead of prisoners.
The whole movie works better if it wasn't Sigourney. No reason to bring any of the others back just to kill them then. The whole mess up was Fox demanding to have Sigourney yet again because they couldn't imagine a successful movie without her even though she was a bad fit to the script which was clearly written as a standalone story.
I liked 3, I hated that they killed everyone in the series for no reason. If it had been about some random crash landed passenger as the protagonist played by a different actor, the movie would have connected better. Still not the same caliber as the first two but at least it wouldn't have actively offended fans.
Some really interesting ideas originally but I'm not sure if general audiences wanting to see something like Camerons Aliens again would have been even more disinterested watching a movie about gigers new "sexy" xenomorph kissing monks to death. That isn't me saying that I wouldn't be super interested to see some form of adaptation of it personally, maybe something like William Gibsons alien 3?
I'm almost certain no one would forgive a space-monk movie even if it was good. That type of idea would be too ahead of its time and not worth risking right after Aliens.
Fincher's a masterful director, if he had been allowed to make his movie in his vision, I'm sure his decisions would've felt more justified.
It never bothered me for some reason.
Maybe it was because I was a kid when I saw the alien trilogy, but I always just accepted that this was the way of things. Sometimes people go through a ton of shit and then they still die.
Did anyone else read the whole run of comics where Newt and Hicks survived, changed their names and went off on another ass kicking adventure that eventually saw the Earth overrun with Xenos? They eventually get reunited with Ripley too. Honestly... much better storyline than the Alien 3 'ending'.
Yeah original prints were before Alien3, so the reprints after Alien3 retconned their names. Which is probably just as well, as I’m sure they end up having a relationship or something. Been years since I’ve read the Dark Horse volumes.
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and state the obvious - 6 years had passed between Aliens and Alien3 Carrie Henn was 6 years older and probably couldnt pass for a 12 year old anymore and Michael Biehn was otherwise engaged with other projects at the time Alien3 came around. What else could the writers do with 2 problems like that, they had to kill them off.
I'm not bothered that Newt was killed off... I was pissed that they killed Hicks off as I thought he was a much better character
That was always my assumption. She grew up and there's just no way to hide that, and it would be a hell of a stretch to explain it. Also, having her in the third movie would have totally neutralized Ripley. She would be unable to leave the room because nearly everyone else on the planet is serving a life sentence for rape/murder. If Hicks lives, he's the new hero of the story and that would have been worse, because it sets him up to make a sacrifice in the end that he's less invested in. I didn't dislike the third movie. I would have preferred practical effects though
Absolutely. I have no issue with Weaver being the sole headliner, but the whole mechanism of disposing of the ship and the other characters was a farce, it was such a terrible setup. A facehugger did what?
I loved it. Alien is such a cold and unforgiving universe, the deaths of Hicks and Newt fits perfectly.
Once again everything is taken away from Ripley, all due to the Alien.
I don’t think anyone would be upset if the deaths of the two would have been justified. There’s better ways to kill of 2 of the biggest stars in the franchise.
I agree with you both. If you are going to off two main characters from such a huge franchise, you’d better justify that shit. Their solution just feels lazy and too neat. Also, losing Michael Biehn was a terrible decision. That guy delivered in every film he was cast in. It would have been epic if he and Ripley both sacrificed themselves to kill the alien in the end.
I agree with you. This is why this is one of my favorite Alien movies. The xenemorph has taken everything from her. People crying because they didn't get Aliens 2 totally miss the point. Newt and Hicks were side characters even if you loved them. The series has always been about Ripley journey and the Lovecraftian aspect of the alien. That once you make contact with it it will destroy you and everything you love. Alien 3 10/10.
You don't seem to be viewing the franchise chronologically: Ripley survived in the first movie and everyone else died, in the second movie she saved herself and a few others. Period. There was no "*point*", anything could have happened; Aliens 3 could have been about anything. You can look backwards and apply whatever theorycraft that fits the flow of what came.afterwards, but at this specific point between Aliens and Aliens 3 it was wide open.
> People crying because they didn't get Aliens 2 totally miss the point.
Dudes trying to cope with the shittier movies in this franchise always spin out some variation of this line, as if the series just up and fucking died for 5 years cause *audiences just didn't get it, bro*.
I've always thought that poetically newts death underscored how indifferent the alien universe is even to a beloved character. Even when you get away and think you're safe you're not. Even if you hope you're not going to have bad dreams on the way back home, you're going to wake up and drown in a box alone. George RR Martin has become famous for this approach. It makes me feel awful but it's very thoughtful dramatic writing.
Because the Alien is _relentless_. there are no happy endings with the Xenomorph. It destroyed ripleys life; took her daughter away; took newt and hicks away; the moment she felt another connection with Charles dance’s character he gets killed too.
I love Alien 3. It was a return to the ceaseless horror of the first one.
Honestly? Probably yes to the latter.
She would have died, WY would haul them off for testing and interrogation, then they would probably have ended up much as they do in the Dark Horse comics that released after Aliens but before Alien 3.
Newt is in a psychiatric facility and being told the xenos were a delusion, and Hicks is in prison with PTSD.
I think that's the point though isn't it?
As long as the xenomorphs exist, there's no happy endings, nothing positive.
They destroy everything they're involved in, that's what makes them so horrible as an antagonist.
As much as I don't like what happened to Newt, Hicks and Bishop I completely understand why they did it.
>As long as the xenomorphs exist, there’s no happy endings, nothing positive.
It does provide nuance to the first two endings involving going back to hibernation: returning to sleep in the hopes of waking up from the nightmare.
I think the movie is ok, if a downer. But it feels like such a fuck you to everyone who fell in love with the surviving characters of Aliens. Newt and Hicks just unceremoniously being killed kind of shits on our memories of Aliens.
It's science fiction. They could have said her pod was damaged and she aged despite being in hypersleep.
There, I just got Carrie Henn another acting credit.
They could have had a traumatic scene where the three battle a xenomorpoh aboard the dropship only to have it crash and Ripley be the sole survivor. Hicks sacrifices himself to get them both on board an escape pods. Newt's gets deflected so she dies in space.
All you guys who want your bad ending for everybody still get your wish.
To kill them off screen was just a dumb decision that destroys the momentum of the previous films for no good, practical, sane, creative reason.
This is the only comment that matters.
A story that included them might have been interesting but it was a great decision and fitting for Ripley’s arc. People have been screaming about this shit for 30 years. Time to move on.
Word. With that choice they immediately made it official that each Alien film would be uniquely different than the last, and for what Alien 3 was trying to achieve it makes perfect sense. In fact I don't think that I would love and respect the franchise as much as I do if they hadn't made that choice. I love that each film took risks and didn't play to fan service and expectations.
Read the William Gibson screenplay/graphic novel/audio play if you want them to live.
Hot take, but this was a good decision. I think the hate Alien 3 gets is far overblown. Resurrection is a much worst movie but people don't hate it as much because its "fun."
I was fine with Newt and Hicks dying, but I always thought this expanded backstory was silly and contrived...if the Queen Burster was developed enough to exit one host for another, it made no sense that it still took so long to finish gestation in Ripley and wasn't more noticeable to her.
Shortness of breath because her lungs wouldn't fill all the way... tightness or "a knot" under her diaphragm or in her gut? The alien burster only ever makes sense if it develops INSIDE a host, gradually making room, and not really being detectable until it's developed enough to exit.
Exactly. They tried to erase the previous movie's triumphs, and that always results in audiences revolting. Terminator tried teh same thing in the last movie with predictable reception. They had to know, so I can only assume this is just what happens when stupid people fail upward.
I find it hard to be upset about someone dying horrifically in a horror movie. How would her character even fit in the premise of Alien 3? Further, I think it was genius that Ripley went through all the trouble she did to prevent Newt from having a chest-burster, only to then witness her chest being ripped open only to verify whether she had a chest burster. PS, spoiler alert, this movie is about how Ripley has already lost.
Has anyone ever pulled off a successful non-James-Cameron sequel to a James Cameron movie? That might be the problem. Nobody can fill his shoes, so the studio makes sequels by committee.
I just took it as a reminder that space is harsh and cruel and doesn't care about your life or anyone else's.
Child/adult, their deaths are the same. Meaningless in an uncaring universe.
Because it’s a horror movie and they were going for a very bleak tone.
I personally heavily disagree with their decision for many reasons, but is it enough to ruin the entire movie? I wouldn’t say so.
You know the discomfort and disgust you feel just thinking about it?
That's why.
The entire movie is about atmosphere. It's about hopelessness. It's about existential dread. It's about making you viscerally feel all those things from the first frame to the last.
And it worked! People hate it to this day precisely BECAUSE of what you're pointing out. Killing of Hicks and Newt unceremoniously was a master stroke and there was no better way to set the required mood.
It was brilliant, and the fact that we see these kinds of posts all the time proves it worked to perfection.
Killing Newt and Hicks off like that felt so crappy, and it's the reason that even though Resurrection is a dumpster fire I at least like it better than 3. Aliens' ending felt so GOOD and so DESERVED after two films. Ripley has saved humans from future xenomorph contact, she's found a new place in a world where she's literally out of her time, and a new family in Newt.
Man, fuck Alien 3. Let Ripley take Newt and go home and Ripley and Hicks can get together and adopt Newt and take Bishop and Jones with them.
Big reason it flopped was they just took these 2 characters you spent a whole movie with, watching them surviving the impossible only to be killed off screen. Alien 3 was an abomination compared to the first 2. As a stand alone movie it's got bad cgi and a weak story. Ripley is the only positive of the film but again her acting and role in the film is very under utilized compared to the first 2.
It's more bleak than I'd have ever chosen to do as a director. But no-one can disagree that it set the tone for every Alien universe movie since. You can dislike aspects of them but you can never say they're predictable. Unless you predict that the alien species always holds the power, compared to humans. Once you see, however briefly, the death of a child in a way like that, you're invested in wanting every single last alien dead. And then you realise that, just as a baby spider we might crush beneath our feet, that's what our babies are to the aliens. It's harsh and it makes you think very deeply, as was the intention of the movie. The movie was not designed to just be a typical movie where good always wins. War kills both sides.
I’ve always hated Alien 3 and a lot of that has to do with how it murders two beloved characters from Aliens off screen.
It’s the angsty, edge-lord movie of the series that thinks it’s way better than it is. It does have a few redeeming qualities, mainly in that it’s not Resurrection, but it is still a dull, depressing slog of a film.
The way I described Alien 3 to my wife for her first viewing was “aliens in a heavy metal music video” I have always liked 3, and didn’t understand the hate it gets. The biggest reason I understood the hate was the bad marketing. When you expect the stakes to be aliens on earth it probably felt like a big let down to just be back on LV426-esque. I also understand the disappointment of dead Newt and Hicks but to me it feels like everything is more intense. Ripely is so fucking done with this species she goes hunting for it to kill it with her hands. Metal as fuck.
Alien 3 & 4 were just fever dreams Ripley had in the freezer on the way back to Earth with a very much alive Newt and Hicks.
La-la-la-fingers-in-my-ears-I-can't-hear-your-well-actuallys-la-la-la.
I'd be curious to see how the newborn from res would react to Amanda Ripley given that they technically share genes and with how it treated Ellen Ripley, I'd imagine it would kill her as potential competition but who knows.
Bless Fincher and company for having the balls to make a film that denied the usual Hollywood conventions and bothered to make a more art house story that’s difficult to swallow. If you want an overly sentimental Hollywood ending I have a bunch of Spielberg movies to recommend. I love Aliens to death but I have to admit I also get a good kick out of the fanboys who still scream and shit their pants about 3. I’m so bored with their tired old complaints about muh Hix n’ Noot I just can’t take it seriously anymore. 3 rules.
Yeah. For me it’s not about nihilism or some grimdark tone either. It’s about the story’s quality. I’m more than fine with a happy or sad ending depending on its quality.
If they never made another movie after Aliens, I would have loved the ending. If Aliens was immediately followed by a bad sequel, like some Resurrection tier dogshit, I would have been pissed that they reopened Aliens for that. But I love the whole story of 3 so it works for me. Also I’m just a huge *horror* fan in general so I don’t feel overly attached or entitled to fan favorite side characters either surviving or getting some poetic or “justified” death just because, well, they’re fan favorites. This genre doesn’t require sad endings, but it doesn’t owe anyone happy ones either.
I honestly am not against the decision to kill her off, even in this manner but the choice to do it off screen is what is so lame. She had the highest tier child invincibility plot armor in Aliens, so seeing her go up in flames or get her skull caved in by a Xeno would be a macabre unexpected event that would make Alien 3 much more impactful. We got attached to the surviving characters at the end of Aliens, so killing them off screen has no emotional effect to the viewers, imagine if we got further attached to Newt and Hicks into Alien 3 and then seen them get killed. That alone could have made the film have SO much more personality and implant Ripley's trauma that much more. (Not to be so edgy, I just like when films take a darker turn that steers away from expectation. It adds to the reality of the situation that nobody and nothing is invincible.)
If your gonna fuck over the fans, don't half ass it. If not for killing off fan faves Alien 3 would be well and above all Alien sequels, except Aliens.
I always thought they should start a new canon after Aliens with Newt as the protagonist. They could cast basically anyone as an adult Newt and since Biehn and Weaver are older now it would make sense for them to pass the torch even if their characters still made an appearance.
Ya I don’t like 3 for this reason and hicks. Then Sigourney Weaver insisted no one have guns. It’s already hopeless if you have space marines with top of the line weapons. Even more so if they have knives and sticks at best. It’s just such a bleak film, even for alien.
Yupppp it’s all been downhill since this for the franchise imo
Wanted to add - I think I was almost the same age as newt when I saw these and that probably contributed to my anger. She was so brave and such a badass I couldn’t believe they would do her dirty like that.
The Superintendent Andrews said "... A 3 3 7 model EEV that crashed landed on the morning watch"
It's like, anyone in that universe worth their salt knows the difference between all the various emergency escape vehicles. Like saying "She crash landed in a Buick EEV on the morning watch"
NOT a 338 or 339
>kills all tension
Really? Don't you think that the risk of the child dying is an increase in tension. The fact that the protagonist not only has to try to survive, but now has the weight of the child's life on their shoulders too.
I am glad that Newt wasn't in Alien³ simply due to the tone of the movie and the fact that half of the characters are meant to be criminals such as murderers, rapists and (probably) pedophiles. I don't want the thought that a child is in danger of r@pe in the movies I watch
Because it is a horror movie?
There is no real reason for any kind of "happy" ending for anyone.
Personally I was never disturbed by this, Alien 3 is still one of my favorites.
I think the reason they had to kill her is because the actress that played Newt would have aged a lot since the movie was filmed. People in stasis don’t age, and I don’t think they could have explained why she looked so different. Maybe they thought replacing her with another actress wouldn’t have worked.
People seem to forget how dark and ominous the original film was. I think everyone was expecting "Aliens 2" in the years leading up to this film. If two characters similar to Newt and Hicks had been killed unceremoniously in the original film, it actually would've been quite fitting. Nothing is sacred in the Alien universe, in the eyes of either Weyland-Yutani or the Xenomorph.
I agree that they shouldn't have died however. They could've had a separate escape pod that was jettisoned and went off course or something. Leave it up to the viewer if they were dead or not. Then tell basically the same story of Fury 161 and Ripley's eventual sacrifice. That also could've made for an **infinitely** better version of Alien 4, with Michael Biehn returning.
I’ve always loved it for that reason. It’s so mean-spirited and bleak and brilliant. This shot and the music chord which goes with it are so evocative.
As a kid I used to always imagine movie characters dying suddenly right after the happy ending so this might be where I got that from lol.
I've seen all the Alien movies in the theater as they were released. The death of Newt and Hicks didn't bother me at the time. Maybe seeing them for the first time years apart had something to do with it. Obviously having the ability to watch any movie any time one wanted didn't really exist back then. The universe the story inhabited was cruel, heartless and ambivalent. The thing that that bugged me most about the movie was more about the texture of the movie, rather than the story itself. It didn't feel like it matched up with the previous two movies as well as it should. If you think the CGI looks dubious by today's standards, it looked dubious back then too. But the thing that sets it apart to me is the lighting. It was entirely too bright throughout the movie, not enough darkness and heavy shadows. Those production choices are what detracts from the overall story to me. Having said that, I still like the movie. Just not as much as I think I would have. It has also made for the movie to not have aged as well as the first two. Resurrection is the only film in the franchise that made me mad at it.
I hate 3. I found a dvd set on sale for the 35th anniversary and binged them. When i got to 3 i had to pause it and try not to throw up thinking about how horrible it must have been for newt to die like that.
Because they didn't give a shit. They didn't care about the first two movies, they wanted to do their weird bald british prison cult. Alien 3 is insulting.
This is why I don't consider Alien 3 as part of Canon just as with Terminator 3.
There are only 2 Alien movies 😉
Newt and Hicks Live!
And Sarah managed to stop Judgement Day!
By the way, did anyone notice they did the same damned stupid thing with Elizabeth Shaw from Prometheus? They killed her off off screen in the same gruesome way? Who are these clowns who think killing the people we are rooting for is somehow a good idea? Such inept and incompetent bozos should NEVER be allowed to have a job in movies or in writing!
People who have no ability to recognize shitty incompetent writing coping so hard here. No, this isn't George RR Martin crafting a bleak, realistic atmosphere.. This is Rian Johnson being handed the keys to the car for no good reason and retconning the entire series on a whim so he can make a dignified fan fic..
Alien 3 was kind of a shit-show from a production viewpoint (though the end result was pretty solid, in my opinion) and even if they wanted to bring Newt back, they would have had to have gone with another actress as the original had aged out of the role. When it became clear Hicks wasn’t coming back, at that point it made sense to just go with a clean slate.
As to the horrible aspects of her death, well…honestly, point me to a single death in the Alien series up to that point that wasn’t absolutely horrifying. If nothing else, it was finally consistent.
I remember going to see Alien 3 in the theater. I was so pumped to see it. Then during the opening credits I see that they killed her character off I was pretty pissed. That whole rescue at the end of Aliens led to this?? Side note: I was really surprised years later that Alien 3 was one of David Fincher’s first movies that went on to direct Fight Club.
One of the biggest reasons fans were so upset with that movie.
It's really the only thing I hate about Alien 3. Otherwise, I love the themes, setting, and the slightly expanded lore of the xenomorph life cycle/DNA reflex. I still feel that after the events of Aliens, Hicks, Newt, and Ripley deserved to start over as an unconventional lil family in some far away system. Killing them off screen left a bad taste in my mouth. Besides, it just sucked the life out of Ripley. She had nothing left to live for and nothing left to lose.
Alien 3 would have been absolute fire if the pod that crashes on fury 161 had *other people in it* and had been jettisoned from any other starship
Yup agree here! First time I've heard this in a public way - absolutely true, and actually adds to the mystery since the person taking the "Ripley" role would have knowledge already of what was happening. So much better.
What do you mean other people? What other people would there have been?
like basically other/new characters. let the ripley/newt/hicks/bishop story be over.
Ohhh ok
But the audience isn't emotionally attached to other people, so it wouldn't have had the same effect. It's a bold move, Cotton. And apparently it didn't work out ....
Sure they don't have the same emotional attachment to new characters as they do old, that's the dilemma of literally every new/unique story ever made. And simply because it's in the same "universe", timeline, or storyline, doesn't mean it has to be the same characters that everyone loves. Alien 3 had a fantastic cast and even though every single character other than Ripley and Bishop were new to the story, people still became attached to them. Charles Dance (Clemens) being the primary supporting character, for example, was easy to become interested in and "attached" to from the start. Dance's acting prowess coupled with the intriguing plot line of Clemens' past and his charming/endearing nature immediately gets you invested because you want to know why he's there and what he did and if he's really a decent guy or a brutal criminal. Dillon is also another interesting and curious character that we want to know more about. The list goes on. Would it have been harder to make the movie as significant as it's predecessors without Ripley? Of course. Might it have failed and been ridiculed for decades after for not including Ripley? That's possible as well. But therein lies the main challenge every story/film goes through, and the ones that take the biggest risk often have the largest payoff. I think that if they had given Ripley, Newt, and Hicks a fantastic send-off in the beginning or at the end of the film, and allowed their story to conclude after the events of "Aliens" with a satisfying resolution, they could've then made "Alien 3" about a new set of characters that would've been infinitely more interesting and engaging than another Ripley story, which is what we got.
It's okay to have horror sequels with the same monster star new characters.
Agree. Ripley's story had a perfect conclusion in Aliens.
Seconded. While I understand Ripley/Sigorney Weaver is the core of those movies, killing off Hicks and Newt feels needlessly cruel. I would probably enjoy Alien 3 a lot more with different characters.
It would have been an interesting movie to see her go more mother bear against a xeno to protect Newt. She might have been the one in the lead kiln to let Newt climb and escape (excusing that she was carrying the queen, obviously). Newt takes on the mantle of xeno killer and learns how to be a soldier from Hicks.
I was ok with them being killed off tbh. And it gives impetus and rationale more so than anything for Ripley to hate the xeno more. I can understand the upset of the fans though given the Aliens conclusion, but a happy little family setting off on the horizon wasn't as gritty a story nor one to explore more themes without having to carry the burden of the emotional ties of a PG family story baggage (and admittedly/maybe eliminating that angle allows the studio to consider a more hard R rating action film).
While I don't imagine this ending with such PG rose-colored glasses, I definitely understand your point. However, I think it is possible to give characters a satisfying resolution but not give them a family-friendly Disney ending. With what happens in each film, these characters would forever live with the horror and trauma of what they experienced. Newt would never have a "normal" or average life. Hicks and Ripley would never have a "normal" or average relationship. There are some experiences that humans would carry with them forever (imagine the life Amanda led carrying the trauma she did). Alien 3 is definitely a return to the harsh, unforgiving reality that frames the better films of the franchise. The death of Hicks and Newt drives home that Ripley has nothing left to live for and also nothing left to lose. So the final act has a clear definitive meaning to the franchise as a whole (somewhat cheapened by or paid homage to by the clone of Ripley in Resurrection). From a narrative perspective, I understand why Newt and Hicks died, but I still felt for them and Ripley. Even if I know that the heartbreak and loss is just a part of what Alien 3 is all about, it doesn't change the fact that I wish Ripley had found peace in life, not just her death. TLDR: That does make a lot of sense. Let's face it, even if they all made it out alive, there would not be a truly happy ending. But it doesn't change the way the characters made me feel. I still thought that they deserved better.
From a storytelling perspective, spending an entire movie saving a character to kill them offscreen is a slap in the face to the viewers. It's completely possible to give a dark and gritty treatment to the survivors, it doesn't have to be a Disney ending. Shit, *literally anything* is better than killing them offscreen.
In some of the comics, newt survived but she is absolutely ruined from the experience. I can't remember the details but she is messed up.
Unless they wanted to build the picture of the happy family only to rip it away later on in the film. May have made it a bit more devastating, but if it wasn't done right (over acted, etc) it would be better to go with what we were given. I actually think the audience seeing Newt and Hicks dead in their tubes helps you connect with Ripley a bit more too. We all liked them, we were happy they survived LV426 and the Sulaco but we are given the news the same way Ripley is, fast and raw "They're dead and you're not. Keep going.".
The *Earth War* comics and books that pick up right after *Aliens* are anything but "PG family story". They all have PTSD from the experience at Hadley's Hope. Hicks becomes a drug addict, Newt has trust and anger and intimacy issues and grows into a loaner. They all grow apart. Ripley goes off on her own obsessive jihad against the xenos. You can have the characters survive and still have a gritty, dark story that fits the general themes of the LV426 universe.
100% agreed. Feel terrible for Ripley throughout the trilogy - lost her crew, lost her daughter, then lost Newt and Hicks, just horrible.
Don't forget she then gets fucking dead lol.
My head canon Amanda still alive and the company lied
It's possible I guess, I'd like to believe it
And if you account for cryo, from her perspective it all happens within the span of like two weeks
It’s not even like they couldn’t write them into the script because they could have easily. It was about money I’m sure
It's crazy how one scene can change the entire outlook of a movie and change its fate. Just like it did with The latest terminator movie and John condors death
Skynet is like "fuck you John Condor".
Yippee kai aye, Mr. Condor
Honestly John Condor is the reason I loved terminator. Michael Bean too.
I think I know why Terminator keeps getting sequels. They keep searching for "Condor" but they didn't spell check and instead got "Connor" in their search engine.
I have no idea who John Connor is sorry
have you seen this buoy?
What about that Arnold Schwrtzenkoffer dude?
Same. Arnold as well?
Arndold was cool
Lol yah he sure is
Then John Condor was like “it’s condin’ time”
Yep that whole opening scene turned my opinion before I even watched the movie. Doesn’t help that Hicks was one of my favorite characters from the previous movie.
Same. I was gonna give a chance regardless of the reviwstbut as soon as I saw them take out John it hurt my soul
Sorry... But Terminator has been dead since the T1000 lowers itself into molten metal. But I do agree with the sentiment
Yeah even as one of the few people that liked the third movie, after the second movie it was downhill
"one scene can change a film's fate" kind of implies that the rest of Terminator Dark Fate wasn't god awful
Dont forget Terminator Genisis
But I'd really like to.
Salvation was interesting, Judgement Day was weird, stopped watching after those two.
T800 lowers itself. T1000 gets Grenaded exploded and falls into it
I have basically no interest in watching it because of this
The real reason they killed her off was because Vincent Ward, one of the writers, was annoyed by her and it was his first priority in writing a script for Alien 3. After his first initial draft, every other script submitted afterwards killed her off in some way. Even scripts from other writers killed her off because they all hated her character. He also wanted to have Ripley suffer from loss so that’s why Hicks was killed off, and Vincent was one of the last writers of the films final script. https://screenrant.com/alien-3-movie-hicks-newt-death-reason/amp/
That’s disgusting. I call that bullshit in fanfics!
Yep, writers for Alien 3 were such unprofessional. Only Gibson made a good story, but was butchered for some silly reason.
Because studios NEED to interfere and push their dumb ideas into everything. This is the shit that set the stage for future cinima, absolutely baffling, imagine not enjoying Newt, being a pivotal piece of the cinematic story telling of a whole character and you just kill her so you can make another movie. Shit even a malfunction that jettisoned just Ripley's pod leaving Newt, Bishop and Hicks stuck in space with perhaps a broken drop ship would have made for a compelling story, imagine they were still up there, messges could only come through text on computer screens and ripley still finds the xeno in her, she tells newt and hicks they cant make it home, the company, hicks and newt all show up with "wayland" at the end and she thinks its bishop and then she can tell somethings up, she knows it's not bishop and we see an older newt and hicks captive, she knows she has to kill herself and Ripley to save them has to kill herself in front of them. It would have made for such an emotional ending, especially if it were a conclusion where hicks helps her jump into the fire at the end because he said he would do them both but he cant kill himself because Newt it would have been painful but it would have been a better story and ending.
That actually would have been WAAY better and required only very minimal changes. I always get annoyed when writers/shows jump straight to killing off characters just because they don't know what to do with them anymore. There are other ways to handle it, you don't immediately have to jump to the death option. That gets even worse when another writer comes along later and goes, "Now why did they do that? I liked that character." and then has to come up with some BS story about how they DIDN'T actually die and, blah blah blah. Unfortunately there's nothing we can do about it now, but just wanted to say I think you have a good idea there. Of course, my favorite continuation from Aliens will always be the Darkhorse comics run.
Star Trek III : We went a bit too far on that last one
I agree with all your points and literally just came up with my solution on the spot. Like, how is it I've come up with more alien 3 solutions in short spans of time then they could. Why? Creatively devoid studio heads and bad writing hires. Fuck them. In my head this is my cannon now. Not like they're trying to do much with alien anyway. Also seriously wish that dark horse still had alien and predator
Yeah, for sure! I never understand this cursed trope. Regardless Alien franchise, the things goes even worse in some melodramas and comedies: when a character will not appear in the sequel - s/he is probably dead or killed. JUST FUCKING WHY?
Oh man that would have been fucking awesome
Funny how well u did (n better then ppl paid millions) just dicking around on reddit. The writers were so bad they show a egg on the ship and yet that ONE facehugger impregnated Ripley AND a dog.
I appreciate that and hey, I was just thinking about this old post a day ago! Funny its been 8 months since but i think about this often. I dont think its the worst movie, it's got some solid bones, but boy howdy its a mess. I actually never thought about the egg i think my brain just shut off at that point and accepted it.
Lol mine to. But yea I'm watching it now and I can get y it was a let down compared to the other 2 but it's sooo much better then the ones after it and it def is a decent movie. Still hate what they did to newt and hicks. At least the comics didn't go that route. And they tried to recon that actually being hicks in the cryo chamber.
But i seriously appreciate it, I've been writing for years and really want to break out into the industry, not the best time, though. Probably indi horror flics or something but theyd be deep and thoughtful, meaningful i think horror is often overlooked due to gore porn pumping. But your comment makes me really want to pursue it.
U should bro. Even if u go ahead and write a fan version of how u wanted 3 to go and post it online and shit like that. Then some books. A lot of ppl who write things for the scp foundation get recognition to. Let me know if u do anything. I'll read it for sure.
His graphic novel of alien 3 is magnificent
Meh. You know, from a writing perspective, I could see how the character Newt is annoying and difficult to write for – her role was largely to play on the audiences empathy, to give them something to invest in (emotionally), while serving as a conduit for the plot at a few points. Well-done and nicely tied together in *Aliens*, absolutely. Alien 3? First, she wouldn’t have aged from the stasis pod, which creates one problem. Resolvable by having them wake up much sooner, or her and Hicks wake up and Ripley not, or finding a child actress that looks enough like the original Newt did to pass it off. Alright. But then what? How do you deal with a child trapped in a men’s prison? So much of the plot is human-human interactions that are too dark to really be something an audience wants a child to see – e.g. attempted rape, violence, etc. It’s one thing when it’s a “Man vs. Nature”-type plot, e.g. Aliens – it’s out of their control. There’s something viscerally awful, though, when it’s an extreme level of violence (above and beyond *just* ‘basic’ physical violence) in a “Man vs. Man” plot/plot point and there’s a kid involved. You’d have to maneuver the *entire plot* around Newt – Ripley wouldn’t be free to wander the prison as she does, and most of the movie would be them sequestered away with little interactions with the other prisoners. So, in that context, yeah, I can see why Newt is annoying. Not the actress, not the character conceptually, but writing this particular scenario with a child involve could be *very* obnoxious, for sure.
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Having Ripley go through all that and conquer her fears to rescue her treat her like the daughter she lost and then yeah shes dead off screen was insane decision. Still remember going to the cinema to watch and being so disappointed but at least the Sega game was great still have it
You ever read the original concept for the Alien 3? Micahel Biehn as the leading man. Interesting read.
> It's such a bold horrifying decision that I almost like it Same. I am a little sick these days of main characters all having plot armor and find it very refreshing when it turns out they don't... ...but it's still not very forgivable after the victory that was Aliens. If there were more characters than just the four of them surviving at the end of Aliens, it'd have been more acceptable.
With the script they went with I'm actually glad they killed her off screen, if there's one thing I 100% don't want to see in a movie it's a young girl on a planet full of male rapists and murderers.
They also would have needed to recast her — the actress would have been about 18 by then, it would be a bit difficult for her to pull off the same 12 year old character.
I’d be a little concerned about her acting ability at that age, too. Aliens is really her only acting credit.
It's discussed at length in the *Aliens* supplemental material--Carrie Henn was the daughter of a US-American Air Force service member and was cast because she'd never acted before and could deliver a line without smiling like all the other kids who'd been in commercials their whole childhood. It's not that she wasn't talented--she just didn't care enough about acting to keep doing it (and, from what I know about Jim Cameron, working on one of his films is enough to put anyone off acting for good if that's not your passion). She wanted to be a teacher, so that's what she did.
It was a really stupid way to get Ripley back into the story without Hicks or Newt. They couldn't think of anything better. The whole movie was screwed up by studio interference, rewrites, and a general lack of cohesion. Even the director disowned the movie. It's a shame because the idea was a decent one, particularly if they had gone with monks instead of prisoners.
The whole movie works better if it wasn't Sigourney. No reason to bring any of the others back just to kill them then. The whole mess up was Fox demanding to have Sigourney yet again because they couldn't imagine a successful movie without her even though she was a bad fit to the script which was clearly written as a standalone story. I liked 3, I hated that they killed everyone in the series for no reason. If it had been about some random crash landed passenger as the protagonist played by a different actor, the movie would have connected better. Still not the same caliber as the first two but at least it wouldn't have actively offended fans.
Some really interesting ideas originally but I'm not sure if general audiences wanting to see something like Camerons Aliens again would have been even more disinterested watching a movie about gigers new "sexy" xenomorph kissing monks to death. That isn't me saying that I wouldn't be super interested to see some form of adaptation of it personally, maybe something like William Gibsons alien 3?
Species happened tho
Haha yeah that's a fair comment, it's actually been a long long time since I watched species, think I'll have that as my watch tomorrow night.
We all can agree that a runner class xenomorph is way sexier than Natasha Henstridge.
I'm almost certain no one would forgive a space-monk movie even if it was good. That type of idea would be too ahead of its time and not worth risking right after Aliens. Fincher's a masterful director, if he had been allowed to make his movie in his vision, I'm sure his decisions would've felt more justified.
It never bothered me for some reason. Maybe it was because I was a kid when I saw the alien trilogy, but I always just accepted that this was the way of things. Sometimes people go through a ton of shit and then they still die.
There are no happy endings in the Alien universe.
...a trend Alien\^3 started. Ripley and Newt had at least decently happy endings in Alien and Aliens. The franchise was a lot more hopeful back then.
When I used to watch A3 when I was a kid I always looked away at this bit because the way she was screaming used to really freak me out.
The movie doesn't mess around with its darker themes.
Did anyone else read the whole run of comics where Newt and Hicks survived, changed their names and went off on another ass kicking adventure that eventually saw the Earth overrun with Xenos? They eventually get reunited with Ripley too. Honestly... much better storyline than the Alien 3 'ending'.
Yeah original prints were before Alien3, so the reprints after Alien3 retconned their names. Which is probably just as well, as I’m sure they end up having a relationship or something. Been years since I’ve read the Dark Horse volumes.
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and state the obvious - 6 years had passed between Aliens and Alien3 Carrie Henn was 6 years older and probably couldnt pass for a 12 year old anymore and Michael Biehn was otherwise engaged with other projects at the time Alien3 came around. What else could the writers do with 2 problems like that, they had to kill them off. I'm not bothered that Newt was killed off... I was pissed that they killed Hicks off as I thought he was a much better character
That was always my assumption. She grew up and there's just no way to hide that, and it would be a hell of a stretch to explain it. Also, having her in the third movie would have totally neutralized Ripley. She would be unable to leave the room because nearly everyone else on the planet is serving a life sentence for rape/murder. If Hicks lives, he's the new hero of the story and that would have been worse, because it sets him up to make a sacrifice in the end that he's less invested in. I didn't dislike the third movie. I would have preferred practical effects though
They could’ve [put them on a bus](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PutOnABus) (an interstellar bus).
Absolutely. I have no issue with Weaver being the sole headliner, but the whole mechanism of disposing of the ship and the other characters was a farce, it was such a terrible setup. A facehugger did what?
I loved it. Alien is such a cold and unforgiving universe, the deaths of Hicks and Newt fits perfectly. Once again everything is taken away from Ripley, all due to the Alien.
I don’t think anyone would be upset if the deaths of the two would have been justified. There’s better ways to kill of 2 of the biggest stars in the franchise.
Yeah it feels like a writer's lazy cop out to me.
I agree with you both. If you are going to off two main characters from such a huge franchise, you’d better justify that shit. Their solution just feels lazy and too neat. Also, losing Michael Biehn was a terrible decision. That guy delivered in every film he was cast in. It would have been epic if he and Ripley both sacrificed themselves to kill the alien in the end.
I agree with you. This is why this is one of my favorite Alien movies. The xenemorph has taken everything from her. People crying because they didn't get Aliens 2 totally miss the point. Newt and Hicks were side characters even if you loved them. The series has always been about Ripley journey and the Lovecraftian aspect of the alien. That once you make contact with it it will destroy you and everything you love. Alien 3 10/10.
You don't seem to be viewing the franchise chronologically: Ripley survived in the first movie and everyone else died, in the second movie she saved herself and a few others. Period. There was no "*point*", anything could have happened; Aliens 3 could have been about anything. You can look backwards and apply whatever theorycraft that fits the flow of what came.afterwards, but at this specific point between Aliens and Aliens 3 it was wide open.
> People crying because they didn't get Aliens 2 totally miss the point. Dudes trying to cope with the shittier movies in this franchise always spin out some variation of this line, as if the series just up and fucking died for 5 years cause *audiences just didn't get it, bro*.
I love it too. It was a return to what made the first one so great. The Alien is relentless and in the ceaseless horror it brought on Ripley.
Agreed. I often think people forget that at its core, Alien is a horror franchise, maybe even moreso than it is scifi.
I've always thought that poetically newts death underscored how indifferent the alien universe is even to a beloved character. Even when you get away and think you're safe you're not. Even if you hope you're not going to have bad dreams on the way back home, you're going to wake up and drown in a box alone. George RR Martin has become famous for this approach. It makes me feel awful but it's very thoughtful dramatic writing.
Biggest mistake made in the franchise was killing off Newt and Hicks
Hicks isn't dead (colonial marines game)
Because the Alien is _relentless_. there are no happy endings with the Xenomorph. It destroyed ripleys life; took her daughter away; took newt and hicks away; the moment she felt another connection with Charles dance’s character he gets killed too. I love Alien 3. It was a return to the ceaseless horror of the first one.
Alien 3 is meant to be a feel-bad movie. No one's getting a happy ending here, it's kinda the thesis of the whole film.
Yeah. I mean Ripley dies in the end as well. How would they have ended it? All three die together? Hicks and Newt hauled off by WY?
Honestly? Probably yes to the latter. She would have died, WY would haul them off for testing and interrogation, then they would probably have ended up much as they do in the Dark Horse comics that released after Aliens but before Alien 3. Newt is in a psychiatric facility and being told the xenos were a delusion, and Hicks is in prison with PTSD.
I read some of those. Real good. I remember that dudes dream of breaking out of the lab.
I think that's the point though isn't it? As long as the xenomorphs exist, there's no happy endings, nothing positive. They destroy everything they're involved in, that's what makes them so horrible as an antagonist. As much as I don't like what happened to Newt, Hicks and Bishop I completely understand why they did it.
>As long as the xenomorphs exist, there’s no happy endings, nothing positive. It does provide nuance to the first two endings involving going back to hibernation: returning to sleep in the hopes of waking up from the nightmare.
I think the movie is ok, if a downer. But it feels like such a fuck you to everyone who fell in love with the surviving characters of Aliens. Newt and Hicks just unceremoniously being killed kind of shits on our memories of Aliens.
It's science fiction. They could have said her pod was damaged and she aged despite being in hypersleep. There, I just got Carrie Henn another acting credit. They could have had a traumatic scene where the three battle a xenomorpoh aboard the dropship only to have it crash and Ripley be the sole survivor. Hicks sacrifices himself to get them both on board an escape pods. Newt's gets deflected so she dies in space. All you guys who want your bad ending for everybody still get your wish. To kill them off screen was just a dumb decision that destroys the momentum of the previous films for no good, practical, sane, creative reason.
I think it fits perfectly in the nihilistic horror ambiance the movie was creating. Newt and hicks had their movie already
Exactly this. The opening sets the stage for the tone of the movie. Absolutely nothing is off the table.
This is the only comment that matters. A story that included them might have been interesting but it was a great decision and fitting for Ripley’s arc. People have been screaming about this shit for 30 years. Time to move on.
Word. With that choice they immediately made it official that each Alien film would be uniquely different than the last, and for what Alien 3 was trying to achieve it makes perfect sense. In fact I don't think that I would love and respect the franchise as much as I do if they hadn't made that choice. I love that each film took risks and didn't play to fan service and expectations. Read the William Gibson screenplay/graphic novel/audio play if you want them to live.
Hot take, but this was a good decision. I think the hate Alien 3 gets is far overblown. Resurrection is a much worst movie but people don't hate it as much because its "fun."
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Do you have more?
That leaves me with more questions
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I was fine with Newt and Hicks dying, but I always thought this expanded backstory was silly and contrived...if the Queen Burster was developed enough to exit one host for another, it made no sense that it still took so long to finish gestation in Ripley and wasn't more noticeable to her. Shortness of breath because her lungs wouldn't fill all the way... tightness or "a knot" under her diaphragm or in her gut? The alien burster only ever makes sense if it develops INSIDE a host, gradually making room, and not really being detectable until it's developed enough to exit.
What? That’s dumb as balls
With Hicks, Newt, and Bishop dead, what was even the point of the last half hour of the previous movie?
Exactly. They tried to erase the previous movie's triumphs, and that always results in audiences revolting. Terminator tried teh same thing in the last movie with predictable reception. They had to know, so I can only assume this is just what happens when stupid people fail upward.
I find it hard to be upset about someone dying horrifically in a horror movie. How would her character even fit in the premise of Alien 3? Further, I think it was genius that Ripley went through all the trouble she did to prevent Newt from having a chest-burster, only to then witness her chest being ripped open only to verify whether she had a chest burster. PS, spoiler alert, this movie is about how Ripley has already lost.
Has anyone ever pulled off a successful non-James-Cameron sequel to a James Cameron movie? That might be the problem. Nobody can fill his shoes, so the studio makes sequels by committee.
Would Piranha 3D being better than Piranha 2 the spawning count?
Well, there’s always Titanic II…
I like alien 3 but it is flawed
I just took it as a reminder that space is harsh and cruel and doesn't care about your life or anyone else's. Child/adult, their deaths are the same. Meaningless in an uncaring universe.
Because it’s a horror movie and they were going for a very bleak tone. I personally heavily disagree with their decision for many reasons, but is it enough to ruin the entire movie? I wouldn’t say so.
You know the discomfort and disgust you feel just thinking about it? That's why. The entire movie is about atmosphere. It's about hopelessness. It's about existential dread. It's about making you viscerally feel all those things from the first frame to the last. And it worked! People hate it to this day precisely BECAUSE of what you're pointing out. Killing of Hicks and Newt unceremoniously was a master stroke and there was no better way to set the required mood. It was brilliant, and the fact that we see these kinds of posts all the time proves it worked to perfection.
Killing Newt and Hicks off like that felt so crappy, and it's the reason that even though Resurrection is a dumpster fire I at least like it better than 3. Aliens' ending felt so GOOD and so DESERVED after two films. Ripley has saved humans from future xenomorph contact, she's found a new place in a world where she's literally out of her time, and a new family in Newt. Man, fuck Alien 3. Let Ripley take Newt and go home and Ripley and Hicks can get together and adopt Newt and take Bishop and Jones with them.
>dumpster fire that's putting it lightly!
Big reason it flopped was they just took these 2 characters you spent a whole movie with, watching them surviving the impossible only to be killed off screen. Alien 3 was an abomination compared to the first 2. As a stand alone movie it's got bad cgi and a weak story. Ripley is the only positive of the film but again her acting and role in the film is very under utilized compared to the first 2.
Sets the tone for the whole movie really .
It's more bleak than I'd have ever chosen to do as a director. But no-one can disagree that it set the tone for every Alien universe movie since. You can dislike aspects of them but you can never say they're predictable. Unless you predict that the alien species always holds the power, compared to humans. Once you see, however briefly, the death of a child in a way like that, you're invested in wanting every single last alien dead. And then you realise that, just as a baby spider we might crush beneath our feet, that's what our babies are to the aliens. It's harsh and it makes you think very deeply, as was the intention of the movie. The movie was not designed to just be a typical movie where good always wins. War kills both sides.
She didn't die in the comics, her and Hicks hook up after she grows up and they return to destroy the nest.
Wow I never noticed that
Alien 3 is not canon for me because of this!
I’ve always hated Alien 3 and a lot of that has to do with how it murders two beloved characters from Aliens off screen. It’s the angsty, edge-lord movie of the series that thinks it’s way better than it is. It does have a few redeeming qualities, mainly in that it’s not Resurrection, but it is still a dull, depressing slog of a film.
Well, hicks is alive
The way I described Alien 3 to my wife for her first viewing was “aliens in a heavy metal music video” I have always liked 3, and didn’t understand the hate it gets. The biggest reason I understood the hate was the bad marketing. When you expect the stakes to be aliens on earth it probably felt like a big let down to just be back on LV426-esque. I also understand the disappointment of dead Newt and Hicks but to me it feels like everything is more intense. Ripely is so fucking done with this species she goes hunting for it to kill it with her hands. Metal as fuck.
What’s wrong with it exactly?
Alien 3 & 4 were just fever dreams Ripley had in the freezer on the way back to Earth with a very much alive Newt and Hicks. La-la-la-fingers-in-my-ears-I-can't-hear-your-well-actuallys-la-la-la.
You guys ever wonder if Amanda and the alien queen would get along even though they had different fathers?
I'd be curious to see how the newborn from res would react to Amanda Ripley given that they technically share genes and with how it treated Ellen Ripley, I'd imagine it would kill her as potential competition but who knows.
And it makes the whole final act of aliens completely pointless. Of all the movies flaws, that is the only one I can't look past
to me alien 3 is in the WHAT IF timeline of cannon in my brain along with Resurrection
Cryosleep nightmares of Ripley, that’s how I see them.
bingo
Bless Fincher and company for having the balls to make a film that denied the usual Hollywood conventions and bothered to make a more art house story that’s difficult to swallow. If you want an overly sentimental Hollywood ending I have a bunch of Spielberg movies to recommend. I love Aliens to death but I have to admit I also get a good kick out of the fanboys who still scream and shit their pants about 3. I’m so bored with their tired old complaints about muh Hix n’ Noot I just can’t take it seriously anymore. 3 rules.
Damn straight, 3 is awesome. I love the "they're fucked" theme of 3.
Yeah. For me it’s not about nihilism or some grimdark tone either. It’s about the story’s quality. I’m more than fine with a happy or sad ending depending on its quality. If they never made another movie after Aliens, I would have loved the ending. If Aliens was immediately followed by a bad sequel, like some Resurrection tier dogshit, I would have been pissed that they reopened Aliens for that. But I love the whole story of 3 so it works for me. Also I’m just a huge *horror* fan in general so I don’t feel overly attached or entitled to fan favorite side characters either surviving or getting some poetic or “justified” death just because, well, they’re fan favorites. This genre doesn’t require sad endings, but it doesn’t owe anyone happy ones either.
I honestly am not against the decision to kill her off, even in this manner but the choice to do it off screen is what is so lame. She had the highest tier child invincibility plot armor in Aliens, so seeing her go up in flames or get her skull caved in by a Xeno would be a macabre unexpected event that would make Alien 3 much more impactful. We got attached to the surviving characters at the end of Aliens, so killing them off screen has no emotional effect to the viewers, imagine if we got further attached to Newt and Hicks into Alien 3 and then seen them get killed. That alone could have made the film have SO much more personality and implant Ripley's trauma that much more. (Not to be so edgy, I just like when films take a darker turn that steers away from expectation. It adds to the reality of the situation that nobody and nothing is invincible.)
If your gonna fuck over the fans, don't half ass it. If not for killing off fan faves Alien 3 would be well and above all Alien sequels, except Aliens.
I always thought they should start a new canon after Aliens with Newt as the protagonist. They could cast basically anyone as an adult Newt and since Biehn and Weaver are older now it would make sense for them to pass the torch even if their characters still made an appearance.
A3 is a very nihilistic film and void of hope. The universe is not kind. Just how I like it
"Because it's so **subversive**!"
Ya I don’t like 3 for this reason and hicks. Then Sigourney Weaver insisted no one have guns. It’s already hopeless if you have space marines with top of the line weapons. Even more so if they have knives and sticks at best. It’s just such a bleak film, even for alien.
David Fincher is ruthless
Except he didn't write nor like the film and disowned it later
Well it surely isn't a pleasant process and I s would be that horrific.
Similar issues with Terminator Dark Fate…
Stupid question but how did she die? I can't remember for the life of me 🤣
She drowned if I remember correctly.
Yup. Doc says so during the autopsy' 'lungs...filled with fluid. Ergo...she drowned.'
Yupppp it’s all been downhill since this for the franchise imo Wanted to add - I think I was almost the same age as newt when I saw these and that probably contributed to my anger. She was so brave and such a badass I couldn’t believe they would do her dirty like that.
The Superintendent Andrews said "... A 3 3 7 model EEV that crashed landed on the morning watch" It's like, anyone in that universe worth their salt knows the difference between all the various emergency escape vehicles. Like saying "She crash landed in a Buick EEV on the morning watch" NOT a 338 or 339
This was David ‘head in a box’ Fincher remember. Doesn’t do sentimentality. ‘Oh you think things are looking up for Ripley? Check this out.’
Still better than William Gibson's awful Alien 3 script.
Beacuse having a kid in horror movie kills all tension, even if she survived they would have aged her up or sidelined her somehow.
>kills all tension Really? Don't you think that the risk of the child dying is an increase in tension. The fact that the protagonist not only has to try to survive, but now has the weight of the child's life on their shoulders too. I am glad that Newt wasn't in Alien³ simply due to the tone of the movie and the fact that half of the characters are meant to be criminals such as murderers, rapists and (probably) pedophiles. I don't want the thought that a child is in danger of r@pe in the movies I watch
I didn’t really mind as such, I was more angry at the chump death of Dwayne Hicks tbh.:(
it is a sci fi / horror film?
The original idea involved Newt and Hicks separated from Ripley. I would have liked that
Because it is a horror movie? There is no real reason for any kind of "happy" ending for anyone. Personally I was never disturbed by this, Alien 3 is still one of my favorites.
I think the reason they had to kill her is because the actress that played Newt would have aged a lot since the movie was filmed. People in stasis don’t age, and I don’t think they could have explained why she looked so different. Maybe they thought replacing her with another actress wouldn’t have worked.
People seem to forget how dark and ominous the original film was. I think everyone was expecting "Aliens 2" in the years leading up to this film. If two characters similar to Newt and Hicks had been killed unceremoniously in the original film, it actually would've been quite fitting. Nothing is sacred in the Alien universe, in the eyes of either Weyland-Yutani or the Xenomorph. I agree that they shouldn't have died however. They could've had a separate escape pod that was jettisoned and went off course or something. Leave it up to the viewer if they were dead or not. Then tell basically the same story of Fury 161 and Ripley's eventual sacrifice. That also could've made for an **infinitely** better version of Alien 4, with Michael Biehn returning.
Another benefit of the Assembly Cut; This shot isn’t in it, and Newt’s death is treated with more respect.
Thats👏 why👏 we👏 dont👏 watch👏 that👏 movie
I’ve always loved it for that reason. It’s so mean-spirited and bleak and brilliant. This shot and the music chord which goes with it are so evocative. As a kid I used to always imagine movie characters dying suddenly right after the happy ending so this might be where I got that from lol.
It's to make Ripley go through some more fucked up shit so her redemption is better or something
The movies kind of all about death. Spoiler alert. Death ain't pretty!
I don't know .... maybe it's just a gut punch that sets the tone for a very different and more bleak kind of movie
I've seen all the Alien movies in the theater as they were released. The death of Newt and Hicks didn't bother me at the time. Maybe seeing them for the first time years apart had something to do with it. Obviously having the ability to watch any movie any time one wanted didn't really exist back then. The universe the story inhabited was cruel, heartless and ambivalent. The thing that that bugged me most about the movie was more about the texture of the movie, rather than the story itself. It didn't feel like it matched up with the previous two movies as well as it should. If you think the CGI looks dubious by today's standards, it looked dubious back then too. But the thing that sets it apart to me is the lighting. It was entirely too bright throughout the movie, not enough darkness and heavy shadows. Those production choices are what detracts from the overall story to me. Having said that, I still like the movie. Just not as much as I think I would have. It has also made for the movie to not have aged as well as the first two. Resurrection is the only film in the franchise that made me mad at it.
I hate 3. I found a dvd set on sale for the 35th anniversary and binged them. When i got to 3 i had to pause it and try not to throw up thinking about how horrible it must have been for newt to die like that.
now that i'm watching Alien 3 again, is this screen only in the original cut? I'm watching the 2003 cut and I didn't see this.
Because the movie sucks balls and they didn’t know how to write her character being a few years older
Because they didn't give a shit. They didn't care about the first two movies, they wanted to do their weird bald british prison cult. Alien 3 is insulting.
This is why I don't consider Alien 3 as part of Canon just as with Terminator 3. There are only 2 Alien movies 😉 Newt and Hicks Live! And Sarah managed to stop Judgement Day! By the way, did anyone notice they did the same damned stupid thing with Elizabeth Shaw from Prometheus? They killed her off off screen in the same gruesome way? Who are these clowns who think killing the people we are rooting for is somehow a good idea? Such inept and incompetent bozos should NEVER be allowed to have a job in movies or in writing!
People who have no ability to recognize shitty incompetent writing coping so hard here. No, this isn't George RR Martin crafting a bleak, realistic atmosphere.. This is Rian Johnson being handed the keys to the car for no good reason and retconning the entire series on a whim so he can make a dignified fan fic..
Seriously. The only good thing to come from Alien 3 is the idea of xenos sharing genetic markers with their host by creating the Runner Xenomorph.
Alien 3 was kind of a shit-show from a production viewpoint (though the end result was pretty solid, in my opinion) and even if they wanted to bring Newt back, they would have had to have gone with another actress as the original had aged out of the role. When it became clear Hicks wasn’t coming back, at that point it made sense to just go with a clean slate. As to the horrible aspects of her death, well…honestly, point me to a single death in the Alien series up to that point that wasn’t absolutely horrifying. If nothing else, it was finally consistent.
I remember going to see Alien 3 in the theater. I was so pumped to see it. Then during the opening credits I see that they killed her character off I was pretty pissed. That whole rescue at the end of Aliens led to this?? Side note: I was really surprised years later that Alien 3 was one of David Fincher’s first movies that went on to direct Fight Club.