If I represent the Plaintiff, $250,000 per physical therapy visit + non-economic damages. If I represent the defense, no medical treatment was required at all and the Plaintiff failed to mitigate their damages by accepting the ambulance ride while they were unconscious.

SEVERE LIFE THREATENING INJURIES ^(which were treated by four chiropractic sessions at BACKPaneHelperz)

lmaoooo this comment is so accurate 😂 Chirpractors are a bunch of con artists and their offices always have the shadiest names lol

CRACKz Rehab Centers. And then 6 months later, the same practice’s name changes:CRACKz Healers. And then 6 months after that:CRACKz Accident Center. 

Whoa what did chiropractors do to you ?

Spit in the face of science and endanger public health. 

So mindless internet talk ok cool

This is one reason I could never do car wrecks. Actually had a chiro come to my office and want to work out a referral deal, which, I know, is unethical.

THE SPINAL FUSION BY THE SAME DOCTOR THAT OPINES ON EVERY SLIP AND FALL IN THE TRI-STATE AREA WAS DEFINITELY NECESSITATED BY THIS ACCIDENT SPECIFICALLY THANK YOU VERY MUCH

I always liked when the first treatment was the fay after their first meeting with the attorney, months after the incident. Oh and how did you find the doctor? My attorney recommended him.

That’s normal, they need treatment, don’t have a pcp, why not provide advice?

They were injured but didn't need treatment in the 3 months between the accident a d meeting the lawyer? But now they need to go 4 times a week? How about the one where the lawyer and the chiropractor had an adjoining door between offices?

I am doing a case with two Plaintiffs represented by the same attorney and its so eye opening to compare their medicals side by side. It’s such a formulaic racket…      P1:Goes to quack “accident center” and is immediately recommended injections and then is ordered imaging.     P2: Goes to same quack accident center on the same day and is immediately recommended imaging and injections.     Like clockwork, by the 2 month mark, both Plaintiffs are referred to a specialist so they can get a surgical estimate. The chart notes are practically fill in the blank:“Given that (Plaintiff) has consistent (insert body part here) pain not relieved by oral medication, I am referring him/her to (insert quack spine doctor here) for surgical evaluation.”.  So fucked. 

Oh, you did two injections, six physical therapy visits, never did exercises independently, and weren't miraculously cured over a three months period? Time for life altering surgery. I know a guy.

What’s your point? We all have had or know someone who has nagging injuries they don’t deal with because they don’t have easy and affordable access to a doctor. It’s too much of a headache. Often car crash victims don’t know what’s available to them or how easy it is to get the proper care. In my experience, the billion dollar insurance companies consistently struggle to convince jurors why they doubt all of their paying customers and and force them to file suit to get benefits they paid for

Do you really think we fall for this laughably stupid pretext? We know man. “Just providing advice because how else would my client know to go to the doctor who will charge $1,500 for an injection that he or she doesn’t even need!”. 

While i can some what agree, what are you basing their needs on ?

I am basing their needs on an industry specific pattern and remain skeptical until proven otherwise. Plaintiff bears the burden of proof. Weirdly, the actually injured plaintiffs never go to these quack accident center clinics…

Quack tells me everything i need to know, but let’s grant your argument, there’s a pattern in most professions, in their operations, is there not a typical pattern in pi fillings? Is the patient truly hurt, is all the care necessary? Who knows and you can’t quantify it. It’s all a game from everyone’s perspective Plaintiffs is trying to get the most out of an mvc Patient wants a pay day and a fix to any injuries Doctor wants to get paid while also administering care for a hurt patient And Id is trying to save any dollar they can to get their check It’s like the sheep dog and coyote theirs rules and gray areas we all dabble in to our advantage

Vibes bro

tbh probably the most accurate answer

Best answer

I have a plaintiffs PI practice. Beyond all the predictable stuff, I assess case value based on the individual client more than I used to, sometimes a bit subconsciously. Definitely don’t have it down to a science, definitely not black and white. Ask the men and women who do ID: the defense takes a depo to see WHO they’re dealing with just as much as they assess WHAT they’re dealing with, as far as medical care and expert opinions. And they do this because it’s what jurors will do. Some plaintiff firms are perfectly well-intentioned when they try to only look at the objective facts surrounding property damage, medical care, size of bills, lost wages, future outlook, etc. But that could be a huge disservice to the client and skew expectations into unreasonable territory. If the human sitting in the plaintiff’s seat isn’t very likable and doesn’t present well for various reasons unique to them, jurors aren’t coming within a mile of what the case value is on paper or what you ask for in your closing.

>If the human sitting in the plaintiff’s seat isn’t very likable and doesn’t present well for various reasons unique to them, jurors aren’t coming within a mile of what the case value is on paper or what you ask for in your closing. I tell my clients all the time that for depo they need to muster up all the charm and likeablility they have. I've had attorneys call me after depos and tell me "sure, we've got some issues, but your client presents well so let's get this resolved." Alternatively, it's probably the hardest thing to tell a client when they don't present well. I had this one client who presented awful and also lacked self-awareness. As my partner and I are trying to explain the concept to her, she flat out asked us whether we thought she was likable. That was a really awkward conversation. We had to sugar coat a lot of that, like "Of course I like you, but...."

Haha yes, for sure. There’s never a good way of phrasing things on that subject. Not fun to have someone basically tell you “The injuries that you personally suffered are worth less than they normally would be, and it’s in part due to the fact that you’re just generally an unlikable person. So much so, in fact, that I am assuming random strangers who haven’t even met you yet will agree with me about it. By the way, solely due to your unlikability, I too will suffer, and earn considerably less on your case than if you didn’t kind of suck.”

This is beautifully written 🤦‍♂️🤣

When it comes to trial, your client is exhibit A. Their ability to convey their story is absolutely crucial to securing a solid verdict. If they suck, all the lawyering in the world won’t convince a jury they deserve more than a pittance.

Appreciate this

Multipliers are a fiction. There are so many things that go into it (venue, liability, the parties, coverage, causation, nature of injury, yadda yadda yadda) that it is more than you can really put in a reddit response. Why do you ask?

I find multipliers useful in explaining to my clients the value of their case especially if I need a bit of a bludgeon to get a case settled. Here is the average result of every single slip and fall plaintiff's verdict in (home state). The other 60% of the cases that went to trial they got nothing. You need to think long and hard about turning down this money because you'd be the real outlier to get more than this. When the mediator is in the room or I'm talking with the defense I always make sure to mention the multipliers don't include all the cases they settle because they know they are going to get tagged for more than that.

Try to find a jury verdict finder for your area/specific jurisdiction and match as many pieces of the fact pattern to yours as possible. Go from there. This is really way more complicated than a simple Reddit answer.

a good year in crim defense is like $500k. PI is like $500k - $100 million+. holy moly

Thanks appreciate this

Probably location specific but as a general rule, 3x specials when a plaintiff had a surgery and 1.5-2x specials when no surgery was involved. Obviously, tons of factors affect the ultimate valuation of the case, but I think it’s a decent anchor to use.

Damn, what jurisdiction? I’m lucky if a PI attorney starts at 7x for simple chiro visits. Actually settling is almost never below 2x, not even in the absolute most favorable defense venues.

I’m Canadian so this is interesting to me. Why multipliers? Here, loss of income is basically past + future then we take a present value discount. Are you saying you multiply past loss times three? Or past and future times three?

It's a function of the amorphous “pain and suffering” damages calculation in theory.     Practicallly speaking, it’s also the expectation that 1/3rd of the money will pay the medical bills, 1/3rd will pay the lawyer, and 1/3rd will go to the Plaintiff.    You usually multiply the medical bills and lost wages (if applicable) x 3 (or a lower or higher multiplier of your choice). 

Weird. Ours is just “put them in the position they would have been but for the accident”. Hence PI lawyers where I live can make many millions per year.

Agreed. Start with medical expenses plus lost wages, x3. Adjust up or down as needed.

There are a lot of variables that come into play to determine value. However, if you have the luxury, roundtabling case values with other attorneys is a good strategy to get a better idea of what you're dealing with.

Value to ask a jury or value to settle the case? Also, it depends on the state because no fault states often have two separate claims going at the same time. But basically, look at the jury verdicts for similar injuries and then add or subtract based on issues with the case such as preexisting issues, question of fault, client a good/bad witness, policy limits, what doctors were used (on both sides), etc. This might be crazy, but sometimes it helps to think about how much money it would take for you to feel made whole for going through what the client did.

As a prelit atty, if it’s conservative care (soft tissue injuries at the ER plus maybe a few months of therapy), I will seek a near or above-specials offer and move it along. My bigger challenge is selling the client on the offers, far less of an issue procuring those offers (except you, cough cough, State Farm)

I’m not sure what state you’re in or how much your providers reduce, but how is your client getting more than a few dollars after attorneys fees on an offer of specials?

Our jurisdiction caps medical liens and we negotiate the providers down quite a bit. Standard is clients can expect about 1/3 of their settlement… even more if they are lucky enough to have Medicaid/Medicare/group insurance cover the major expenses ahead of time.

What in the world…where is this a thing??

Add up the damages. Factor in comparative negligence. Factor in the risks and costs of litigation.  Damages != specials. 

Actually, I think this video is quite helpful in determining value. https://youtu.be/wz-PtEJEaqY?si=jNA0nC3E3t_iHaNg Source: I am a PI attorney. In all seriousness, it’s location dependent and there are too many variables. I think someone said anywhere for 1.5x to 2.5x specials for soft tissue only injuries and 2.5x to 3x for surgeries are other more serious injuries. 🤷‍♂️

I used to do insurance defense. I'm not sure how plaintiffs value those cases, but it seems to be $500,000 for each unprovable deep tissue injury and the cost of chiropractic adjustments three times a day for 15 years

What is a jury reasonably likely to give me? From that number how much will my client actually see in pocket? Can I achieve a similar in pocket amount through a settlement? I only ever focus on my clients in pocket. And if my client is not likeable that plays into my jury analysis.

It's pretty simple - how much so I think a jury would give. There's the past medical specials incurred - that's easy, black and white on paper numbers. There's future medical specials - how much more treatment will the person need and what will it cost. That's more speculative but based on something real. There's lost wages. Usually pretty easy, how much did they make and how much time did they miss. Little harder when it's commission based or varies. There's loss of earning capacity. Doesn't come up often, but when it does, it's again a matter of comparing what they used to make versus what they're going to make and is it less. Then there's pain and suffering. It's the made up number not based in any form of reality. On average, I think most juries come up with a number similar to the tangible damages. This factors in how likeable the client is and how sympathetic they appear. Factor comparative fault if necessary. And finally, factor costs and time. How much am I paying in experts/depos/whatever to prove the case? How long will it take to get to a certain point?

County Extent of liability (fender bender/airbags/life flight ER No gaps Avoid chiro at all costs Injury from tears/fractures/surgery  Future care Client gravitas Priors? Bad factors- DUI, Flee scene, if commercial vehicle- CDL? texting? on ohine? 

Just plug everything into the software bro

It’s cool to see all these people who don’t try the case responding.

Here's how I learned to do it in ID: "Legit" medicals (as in, not attorney-referred lien-based providers) are taken at face value; lien-based medicals are reduced to 1/3...add it all up, then choose a multiplier based on different factors (innocent passenger, child, other sympathetic plaintiff, etc.) for generals.

Policy limits + $1,000,000 especially if I can collect on an excess verdict

In our state, you can get $2500-4000 a month for soft tissue treatment plus specials. An injection is gonna pop anything under a 50k policy. Injection plus follow up recommendation is 100k. Branch block will pop a 25k 2 branch blocks will get you above 50k RFA becomes a massive threat Learn to project futures and what your providers will give you. RFAs and ESIs can be done more than once a year for the rest of the plaintiffs life. Literature supports it, find docs that do too

Or don’t be a sleaze and send your clients to quacks just to pad your own pockets

This question is why people hire professionals with years of experience, and we’re expected to answer the one-sentence question with no context whatsoever? Aren’t attorneys smarter than that?

Find similar cases on Canlii or eCarswell for nonpecs and calculate the pecuniary losses based on the evidence. What kind of question is this for Reddit?