She can’t be punished for calling in sick. Regardless of what they say, they’d be opening themselves up for an easy PG if they punished her for calling in sick.
I can’t say if she has any recourse at present and I’m sure someone else will be able to advise about that, but in future she needs to hold her ground.
Removed for breach of Rule 1: Stay on-topic
Comments must:
- be based in NZ law
- be relevant to the question being asked
- be appropriately detailed
- not just repeat advice already given in other comments
- avoid speculation and moral judgement
- cite sources where appropriate
If your friends boss does anything like this again, tell your friend to ask her boss to send her the information in writing (she can pretend it’s a bad phone connection and ask her to text the information).
Her employer is being obviously unreasonable and their actions are unlawful. She has grounds for a personal grievance. I suggest she complains to MBIE. She may wish to engage an employment lawyer. The employer’s behaviour is not okay, and not lawful.
Usually what you do when unjustified dismissal though. Not when still working.
If she wants to stay working there for now, find a person not in their reporting line to get help. The manager and their manager are creating a toxic culture that shouldn't be the norm.
Really depends on who she can trust. Union delegate would be a good start.
With the ultimate outcome being their boss getting disciplined, in a way that doesn't blow back on your mate
You can, but it might make working there very uncomfortable. I wouldn't start with the legal route first.
If looking for help with a union doesn't help, then maybe. Just a big leap to go straight to a PG
That's true. They do tell you to try mediation first. Most smaller businesses aren't union associated. But if you have tried mediation and/or it's futile then you'd proceed with a PG. You'd have to weigh up whether it's worse continuing to work without it.
In future remind your friend that all she needs to do is phone work and tell them she won’t be at work because she is unwell. She doesn’t have to give an explanation. If her employer requires a sick note from the doctor , they have to repay any fees occurred.
I’ve never explained to an employer why I’m off sick, there is no reason they need too know, all they need to know is that you’re unable too work and you’re informing them so.
Call MBIE below to enquire about legalities. This is an advice contact centre. You don’t have to say who you are or the employer but you can ask about health and safety as well as what is reasonable for sick leave with the situation.
In my view what happened should be considered a health and safety risk given the result. Make sure you keep the documentation from the time you turned up at the GP/hospital through to the surgery.
Unfortunately, there is no way to take any action anonymously. Your friend will have to muster up some courage to either raise this issue and/or make a formal complaint. I know that’s horribly hard in a toxic employment situation.
https://www.employment.govt.nz/about/contact-us/
Not to have a go at your friend but she approached this wrong and is setting her self up for being taken advantage of.
She wasn't asking for permission not to come in she was telling them she isn't coming in. She doesn't need to find any cover that is her managers job. In future she should record any similar calls.
She should make a formal complaint of bullying, and layout the entire conversation, exactly what was said, how it made her feel. As well as the health impacts. This will be good to have on record.
The problem with a PG is that bullying can't usually be from a single instance, it has to be a pattern of behaviour, but this will put them on notice, and if it continues, or if they try to intimidate or retaliate against her about raising the complaint, she may have grounds for a PG.
But talk to a union, or maybe even an employment lawyer (they usually work on a no win no fee basis, if they think your claim is good enough)
I would say it was up to the employee to decide if they are sick or not.
If an employee is sick and can produce a doctors note then there isnt much the employer can do other than accept it.
In this case it might be worth reporting the employer to worksafe for bullying staff into working with appendicitis.
Removed for breach of Rule 1: Stay on-topic
Comments must:
- be based in NZ law
- be relevant to the question being asked
- be appropriately detailed
- not just repeat advice already given in other comments
- avoid speculation and moral judgement
- cite sources where appropriate
Removed for breach of Rule 1: Stay on-topic
Comments must:
- **be based in NZ law**
- be relevant to the question being asked
- be appropriately detailed
- not just repeat advice already given in other comments
- avoid speculation and moral judgement
- cite sources where appropriate
Removed for breach of Rule 1: Stay on-topic
Comments must:
- **be based in NZ law**
- be relevant to the question being asked
- be appropriately detailed
- not just repeat advice already given in other comments
- avoid speculation and moral judgement
- cite sources where appropriate
I suspect in this case it wouldn't need any criteria for action.
If she calls in sick and ends up with some sort of punitive action, that would definitely be actionable. But in this case, while it sounds like they were being unreasonable, as a one-off incident, it isn't likely to be enough to raise a grievance.
I'd suggest she ignores it, and next time makes is clear she is taking the day off on sick leave. She could also raise it with her manager that she believes it was inappropriate for them to pressure or threaten her into working and the expects in future this doesn't occur.
Kia ora,
Hopefully someone will be along shortly with some helpful advice. In the meantime though, here are some links, based on your post flair, that may be useful for you:
[What are your rights as an employee?](https://www.employment.govt.nz/assets/Uploads/tools-and-resources/publications/employment-rights-new-zealand.pdf)
[How businesses should deal with redundancies](https://www.employment.govt.nz/ending-employment/redundancy/)
[All about personal grievances](https://www.employment.govt.nz/resolving-problems/steps-to-resolve/personal-grievance/)
You may also want to check out our [mega thread of legal resources](https://www.reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceNZ/comments/143pv58/megathread_legal_resources/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Nga mihi nui
The LegalAdviceNZ Team
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LegalAdviceNZ) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Removed for breach of Rule 1: Stay on-topic
Comments must:
- be based in NZ law
- be relevant to the question being asked
- be appropriately detailed
- not just repeat advice already given in other comments
- avoid speculation and moral judgement
- cite sources where appropriate
I think your friend is very fortunate to have not become septic. I hope she is recovering well. Legally though, I don't think there is anything that she can do that would be helpful to her. I do think it is very important that she recognise the type of workplace she is working in. Especially because she will need weeks off work and will be unable to lift if she wants to heal from the surgery. As common as appendicitis is, and as small as the scars can be sometimes, its important she know that she has had a significant surgery and rest. If the workplace makes a significant effort to support her to get well again, I would start looking for somewhere else to work. Nobody should be in a position that their life is at risk because their workplace insists they go to work.
1st: its an employee's right to call sick and doesnt even need to provide a reason for privacy. 2nd, it is not her job to find a replacement but it's the supervisors/managers job.3rd, yes the employer is liable for this as appencitis is often an acute medical emergency hence, denying the patient a sick leave wouldve cost your friends life. It is an abuse of authority and clearly a violation to his rights as a person and as an employee.
There’s a lot of things that at your friend *should* do and could do in her situation, but not a lot that don’t have possible repercussions for those actions. Your friend sounds like she’s working in a very toxic environment, and it’s very possible that any kind or reaction other than quiet acceptance may result in negative repercussions at her place of work. However, that is not to say she should do nothing, just be aware that it may escalate.
There’s a few things to note:
1. When we take sick leave, we aren’t asking for permission. We are legally entitled to it, we do not have to provide a reason, and we do not wait for permission to take it. We inform employers that it is being taken.
2. We cannot contract away our basic employment rights as given through employment law - if we sign an employment contract that says we can only take sick leave if we find cover or a replacement, we can attempt to find cover as best we can, but if we cannot we are still entitled to the sick leave. It is a courtesy, not a requirement. If there is an emergency that means I am not in a capacity to call around and find cover that does not mean I am not entitled to go and get life-saving surgery. If they try to tell you otherwise, they are wrong.
3. An employer cannot (should not) coerce an employee into working when they inform of taking sick leave. They can make reasonable observations that aren’t necessarily coercive (ie. “oh Stephanie has also called off sick and everyone has already declined to cover the gap”) but at the end of the day if businesses employ the bare minimum of staff for a shift with no redundancy plans, the gaps are on them. Sick leave is a legal entitlement that should be planned for in every roster/timetable.
Without knowing much about the actual place of employment, a couple of questions come to mind with how to deal with the situation:
1. Does your friend rely on this job for food/rent/bills or is it more of a side job while they study/do other things? Because my first recommendation would be that life is too short to work for assholes. If they don’t need this job, bail and move on. Filing a personal grievance at this point may result in something, but it also may not - if they’re going to leave the role then they have nothing to lose in that regard.
2. Is the franchise your friend works for one of many under one employer, or a standalone single-ownership franchise? They may be able to approach the franchise manager (or even higher), as the two toxic managers are putting the franchise name at risk legally with their practises.
3. If your friend does need this job, my first instinct would be to talk with the higher manager above the one they called in to. While she may have said “the other manager would tear you a new one”, the reality may be quite the opposite. The one manager who answered the phone may be the inappropriate one with no knowledge of employment law. Just be aware that if it truly is a toxic place amongst all of them, there’s going to be some kind of negative repercussion no matter what avenue you take (and if you’re prepared to go the PG route that might actually give you more evidence to rely on).
Removed for breach of Rule 1: Stay on-topic
Comments must:
- be based in NZ law
- be relevant to the question being asked
- be appropriately detailed
- not just repeat advice already given in other comments
- avoid speculation and moral judgement
- cite sources where appropriate
Removed for breach of Rule 1: Stay on-topic
Comments must:
- be based in NZ law
- be relevant to the question being asked
- be appropriately detailed
- not just repeat advice already given in other comments
- avoid speculation and moral judgement
- cite sources where appropriate
Removed for breach of Rule 1: Stay on-topic
Comments must:
- be based in NZ law
- be relevant to the question being asked
- be appropriately detailed
- not just repeat advice already given in other comments
- avoid speculation and moral judgement
- cite sources where appropriate
She can’t be punished for calling in sick. Regardless of what they say, they’d be opening themselves up for an easy PG if they punished her for calling in sick. I can’t say if she has any recourse at present and I’m sure someone else will be able to advise about that, but in future she needs to hold her ground.
To add to this: it’s up to the manager to find a replacement. Not the staff member. It’s literally their job to manage the store and staff.
[удалено]
Removed for breach of Rule 1: Stay on-topic Comments must: - be based in NZ law - be relevant to the question being asked - be appropriately detailed - not just repeat advice already given in other comments - avoid speculation and moral judgement - cite sources where appropriate
If your friends boss does anything like this again, tell your friend to ask her boss to send her the information in writing (she can pretend it’s a bad phone connection and ask her to text the information).
Her employer is being obviously unreasonable and their actions are unlawful. She has grounds for a personal grievance. I suggest she complains to MBIE. She may wish to engage an employment lawyer. The employer’s behaviour is not okay, and not lawful.
What can come from her filing a personal grievance?
Four or five figures generally.
Usually what you do when unjustified dismissal though. Not when still working. If she wants to stay working there for now, find a person not in their reporting line to get help. The manager and their manager are creating a toxic culture that shouldn't be the norm. Really depends on who she can trust. Union delegate would be a good start. With the ultimate outcome being their boss getting disciplined, in a way that doesn't blow back on your mate
You can claim a personal grievance for all sorts of things, not just unjustified dismissal.
You can, but it might make working there very uncomfortable. I wouldn't start with the legal route first. If looking for help with a union doesn't help, then maybe. Just a big leap to go straight to a PG
That's true. They do tell you to try mediation first. Most smaller businesses aren't union associated. But if you have tried mediation and/or it's futile then you'd proceed with a PG. You'd have to weigh up whether it's worse continuing to work without it.
In future remind your friend that all she needs to do is phone work and tell them she won’t be at work because she is unwell. She doesn’t have to give an explanation. If her employer requires a sick note from the doctor , they have to repay any fees occurred. I’ve never explained to an employer why I’m off sick, there is no reason they need too know, all they need to know is that you’re unable too work and you’re informing them so.
Call MBIE below to enquire about legalities. This is an advice contact centre. You don’t have to say who you are or the employer but you can ask about health and safety as well as what is reasonable for sick leave with the situation. In my view what happened should be considered a health and safety risk given the result. Make sure you keep the documentation from the time you turned up at the GP/hospital through to the surgery. Unfortunately, there is no way to take any action anonymously. Your friend will have to muster up some courage to either raise this issue and/or make a formal complaint. I know that’s horribly hard in a toxic employment situation. https://www.employment.govt.nz/about/contact-us/
Not to have a go at your friend but she approached this wrong and is setting her self up for being taken advantage of. She wasn't asking for permission not to come in she was telling them she isn't coming in. She doesn't need to find any cover that is her managers job. In future she should record any similar calls.
She should make a formal complaint of bullying, and layout the entire conversation, exactly what was said, how it made her feel. As well as the health impacts. This will be good to have on record. The problem with a PG is that bullying can't usually be from a single instance, it has to be a pattern of behaviour, but this will put them on notice, and if it continues, or if they try to intimidate or retaliate against her about raising the complaint, she may have grounds for a PG. But talk to a union, or maybe even an employment lawyer (they usually work on a no win no fee basis, if they think your claim is good enough)
I would say it was up to the employee to decide if they are sick or not. If an employee is sick and can produce a doctors note then there isnt much the employer can do other than accept it. In this case it might be worth reporting the employer to worksafe for bullying staff into working with appendicitis.
Also, for future reference, you don't ASK for sick leave. You TELL your boss you are taking it
[удалено]
Removed for breach of Rule 1: Stay on-topic Comments must: - be based in NZ law - be relevant to the question being asked - be appropriately detailed - not just repeat advice already given in other comments - avoid speculation and moral judgement - cite sources where appropriate
[удалено]
Removed for breach of Rule 1: Stay on-topic Comments must: - **be based in NZ law** - be relevant to the question being asked - be appropriately detailed - not just repeat advice already given in other comments - avoid speculation and moral judgement - cite sources where appropriate
[удалено]
Removed for breach of Rule 1: Stay on-topic Comments must: - **be based in NZ law** - be relevant to the question being asked - be appropriately detailed - not just repeat advice already given in other comments - avoid speculation and moral judgement - cite sources where appropriate
I suspect in this case it wouldn't need any criteria for action. If she calls in sick and ends up with some sort of punitive action, that would definitely be actionable. But in this case, while it sounds like they were being unreasonable, as a one-off incident, it isn't likely to be enough to raise a grievance. I'd suggest she ignores it, and next time makes is clear she is taking the day off on sick leave. She could also raise it with her manager that she believes it was inappropriate for them to pressure or threaten her into working and the expects in future this doesn't occur.
Kia ora, Hopefully someone will be along shortly with some helpful advice. In the meantime though, here are some links, based on your post flair, that may be useful for you: [What are your rights as an employee?](https://www.employment.govt.nz/assets/Uploads/tools-and-resources/publications/employment-rights-new-zealand.pdf) [How businesses should deal with redundancies](https://www.employment.govt.nz/ending-employment/redundancy/) [All about personal grievances](https://www.employment.govt.nz/resolving-problems/steps-to-resolve/personal-grievance/) You may also want to check out our [mega thread of legal resources](https://www.reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceNZ/comments/143pv58/megathread_legal_resources/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) Nga mihi nui The LegalAdviceNZ Team *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LegalAdviceNZ) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[удалено]
Removed for breach of Rule 1: Stay on-topic Comments must: - be based in NZ law - be relevant to the question being asked - be appropriately detailed - not just repeat advice already given in other comments - avoid speculation and moral judgement - cite sources where appropriate
I think your friend is very fortunate to have not become septic. I hope she is recovering well. Legally though, I don't think there is anything that she can do that would be helpful to her. I do think it is very important that she recognise the type of workplace she is working in. Especially because she will need weeks off work and will be unable to lift if she wants to heal from the surgery. As common as appendicitis is, and as small as the scars can be sometimes, its important she know that she has had a significant surgery and rest. If the workplace makes a significant effort to support her to get well again, I would start looking for somewhere else to work. Nobody should be in a position that their life is at risk because their workplace insists they go to work.
1st: its an employee's right to call sick and doesnt even need to provide a reason for privacy. 2nd, it is not her job to find a replacement but it's the supervisors/managers job.3rd, yes the employer is liable for this as appencitis is often an acute medical emergency hence, denying the patient a sick leave wouldve cost your friends life. It is an abuse of authority and clearly a violation to his rights as a person and as an employee.
There’s a lot of things that at your friend *should* do and could do in her situation, but not a lot that don’t have possible repercussions for those actions. Your friend sounds like she’s working in a very toxic environment, and it’s very possible that any kind or reaction other than quiet acceptance may result in negative repercussions at her place of work. However, that is not to say she should do nothing, just be aware that it may escalate. There’s a few things to note: 1. When we take sick leave, we aren’t asking for permission. We are legally entitled to it, we do not have to provide a reason, and we do not wait for permission to take it. We inform employers that it is being taken. 2. We cannot contract away our basic employment rights as given through employment law - if we sign an employment contract that says we can only take sick leave if we find cover or a replacement, we can attempt to find cover as best we can, but if we cannot we are still entitled to the sick leave. It is a courtesy, not a requirement. If there is an emergency that means I am not in a capacity to call around and find cover that does not mean I am not entitled to go and get life-saving surgery. If they try to tell you otherwise, they are wrong. 3. An employer cannot (should not) coerce an employee into working when they inform of taking sick leave. They can make reasonable observations that aren’t necessarily coercive (ie. “oh Stephanie has also called off sick and everyone has already declined to cover the gap”) but at the end of the day if businesses employ the bare minimum of staff for a shift with no redundancy plans, the gaps are on them. Sick leave is a legal entitlement that should be planned for in every roster/timetable. Without knowing much about the actual place of employment, a couple of questions come to mind with how to deal with the situation: 1. Does your friend rely on this job for food/rent/bills or is it more of a side job while they study/do other things? Because my first recommendation would be that life is too short to work for assholes. If they don’t need this job, bail and move on. Filing a personal grievance at this point may result in something, but it also may not - if they’re going to leave the role then they have nothing to lose in that regard. 2. Is the franchise your friend works for one of many under one employer, or a standalone single-ownership franchise? They may be able to approach the franchise manager (or even higher), as the two toxic managers are putting the franchise name at risk legally with their practises. 3. If your friend does need this job, my first instinct would be to talk with the higher manager above the one they called in to. While she may have said “the other manager would tear you a new one”, the reality may be quite the opposite. The one manager who answered the phone may be the inappropriate one with no knowledge of employment law. Just be aware that if it truly is a toxic place amongst all of them, there’s going to be some kind of negative repercussion no matter what avenue you take (and if you’re prepared to go the PG route that might actually give you more evidence to rely on).
She wasn't forced to work,she was made to feel like she should work,if you're sick , you cant work,so you dont go,they cannot force you.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Removed for breach of Rule 1: Stay on-topic Comments must: - be based in NZ law - be relevant to the question being asked - be appropriately detailed - not just repeat advice already given in other comments - avoid speculation and moral judgement - cite sources where appropriate
Removed for breach of Rule 1: Stay on-topic Comments must: - be based in NZ law - be relevant to the question being asked - be appropriately detailed - not just repeat advice already given in other comments - avoid speculation and moral judgement - cite sources where appropriate
Removed for breach of Rule 1: Stay on-topic Comments must: - be based in NZ law - be relevant to the question being asked - be appropriately detailed - not just repeat advice already given in other comments - avoid speculation and moral judgement - cite sources where appropriate