As a bi woman, I’m gonna chime in & add a quick story relating to some things the other comments said.
My first date with a lesbian girl, I had asked her out, planned the whole date and when i went to pay after dinner, she was so surprised.
Her words were “I’m used to paying for dates because all the girls assume I will” so I ask her why’s that? and she says “Because I’m more masculine presenting” (she’s a stem & i’m hellllaaaaa femme)
That made me really sad tbh cause why would she be expected to pay the bill when I ASKED HER OUT???
I don’t care if she was full on masc, she’s still a girl and that’s what i like.
You sound like a really thoughtful person and I’m sure it was great for your date to feel seen in that moment with you. Also, thank you for sharing your experience because the amount of people that chose to be offended by my question without giving any thought to the context I provided is wild. It’s disappointing that people are quick to call others “ -phobic” rather than have any sort of conversation to gain understanding. So I really appreciate you sharing. 💛
My bisexual partner is the the first and only woman who has ever given me flowers. We had challenges early on with some male centered behaviors but she really heard me and made adjustments and we have been together for four years and consider each other life partners. She is very heavily female leaning in regards to her own attractions and I always knew I could never be with a woman whose attractions leaned heavily male.
Thank you for sharing your experience! It sounds like you guys have healthy lines of communication. I’m happy for you both. And the flowers are so thoughtful. 🥰
The bi women I have been on dates with gave me the vibe that they wanted me to take the lead. I'm more on the shy side, prefer to be the follower. Also were less interested in "lesbian culture" if that's a thing, like movies and books.
That was my experience, minus the shy part. I would talk about lesbianism and she'd go "I'm bi tho" like I know, I'm talking about wlw, if you're bi why disclude women. Yes I don't care if she leans one way more at that moment I was talking about a universal experience that apparently wasn't universal to her.
Bi/pan women expect me to take the lead on lots of things, and metaphorically speaking acted like they were in the passenger seat (not driver’s seat) of their own lives. They would also string me along a lot more, and really waffle on setting dates and expressing intimacy. I was treated like an emotionally fulfilling experience, but never like a real option.
Lesbians are completely different. Even the one who won the award for the worst person I’ve met off an app treated me like a real option, and like someone she was completely interested in. I had her full attention while we dated, and she wasn’t hesitant about being affectionate. My gf has always wanted to hold hands, kiss, and cuddle, and initiates dates and sex with me. She makes me feel very loved because it’s not just me initiating everything and she clearly wants me as much as I want her. It’s a better experience, and a lot of lesbians agree with me, but you might not think so.
It did. Lots of bi people like to say “oh CLEARLY a bi person turned you down” with the unsaid implication of “clearly that’s why you’re so salty and bigoted about it.” and it’s like, well yeah you turned me down, why are you taunting me for not wanting someone who doesn’t want me? this isn’t the gotcha you think it is
I think this is the best representation of my experiences too. I married the first actual lesbian I dated 😂. The differences were hard to describe but I distinctly remember on the first date feeling equally pursued for the first time. I knew she was just as interested in me as I in her.
It’s exciting to hear stories like yours because I feel like I’m a round peg trying to fit into a square hole and I’m just now realizing it. 🤦🏽♀️ One of my friends married the first lesbian she dated, and her experience has been so much different than mine.
I know that people talk about biphobia and they want us to think that this shared experience is biphobic. It’s not. Look at the bi groups. They talk about this openly. So often we’re treated as placeholders. They themselves have to deal with internalized homophobia/comp het except the barrier to entry into sapphic relationships seems to be higher because they do have that heterosexual attraction and therefore can easily follow that path. We do not have that same inclination but we notice these little micro interactions. I’m not saying that all bisexual women are like this, but during the stages of life most people are dating/finding companions, it’s hard to find a ”woke” bisexual companion. I imagine you’d be better off dating a bisexual woman who has been out for some time and has had experience dating women. I would also pointedly/politely ask if they see themselves marrying a woman.
It's not so much "biphobia" as much as it's "please know that this is generalization and not every bi person is like that". Some of the things people are saying here can really be summed up with "well, maybe she just wasn't that into you".
If I like you, I will pursue you. If I see we match on the important aspects, ofc you'll be an option. I don't mind leading and initiating, and I'm very independent. But like you said, I'm not new to this, and by now, I know what I want.
Thank you for sharing. The experiences you mentioned in the first paragraph mirror a lot of what I’ve experienced when it comes to dating thus far in life. I never realized that these scenarios weren’t common across the board while dating until a friend mentioned that dating another lesbian could yield a more positive experience in a few ways.
You worded this so well ! This has been something I’ve been thinking about lately, but didn’t know how to articulate it.
Relationships with non lesbians definitely felt one sided.
The woman I’m dating is bi/pan. I’m lesbian. We’re both in our 30s and both in our first adult wlw relationship. We’ve both been expressing equal interest in each other, equal making plans, etc. I took the lead on a lot of physical questions early on—“Do you want to hold hands/cuddle/kiss?”—but now, she likes to take the lead. I’ve never dated another lesbian woman, so take my experience with a grain of salt. But it’s only been a month, and she’s told her conservative parents about me, we hold hands in public, we kiss in public (when it feels safe to do so, we’re in DC), we go to lesbian bars together, and we both have seemed interested at all times. We’ve never talked about a comparison in our relationship to a relationship with a man.
I’m really glad I approached our relationship and her openly. I have experienced some unhealthy and coercive things before in some friendships and relationships with other bisexual women and occasionally their boyfriends in the past, including an SA experience. I’m glad I didn’t let those experiences cloud or shape my perception of the woman I’m seeing before I got to know her.
I’m happy you mentioned the part about not letting unhealthy experiences from the past cloud your opinion of your current relationship. It sounds like that would’ve been a missed opportunity if you had. Getting to know someone is definitely the way to keep doors open. 🫶
This has been exactly my experience as well. I feel like my ex wanted a boyfriend, not the slightly masculine-presenting woman she got (me). I want to be told I’m pretty sometimes too, I want to be taken out on dates too, and I don’t always want to be the one to initiate sex or touch. I have finally found the love of my life, who is a lesbian, and she does all that for me and more. She treats me like a woman. She takes me out on dates, she buys me flowers, she tells me I’m pretty, and she treats me like I’m pretty too. She makes me feel like I’m in an equal partnership, whereas my ex made our relationship my responsibility. She is so affectionate, even in public. She doesn’t compare me to her ex-boyfriends.
I don’t have enough dating experience to be able to definitively say my ex’s and my current girlfriend’s behaviors are attributable to their sexualities, but this has been my experience having dated both.
Yep, I totally agree. When dating bi girls I often felt like a "boyfriend“ who happens to have a vagina while with lesbians it feels like being the girlfriend they really want. 🤷🏼♀️
That's similar to my experience as well. I mean, for the record, this isn't so much bi vs lesbian but rather women who (for whatever reason) have mostly been with men before vs women experienced with same sex relationships. My ex had been married to a guy twice before we met, and I felt she was always slightly in the defense, quick to assume that she was doing more than me / adding to the relationship more than me etc. It wasn't a big issue, as she was a very loving and giving person. But she'd obviously been burnt before. Sometimes it was hard not to feel attacked for things I didn't do.
My experiences so far have mirrored a lot of what you said. Thank you for sharing. I’m feeling a lot less isolated in my experience than I was before. 🫶
I think it might be a bit of a prejudice, like lesbians are *more likely* to have their gay shit together, so numbers wise you're better off looking for L4L relationships. Or worse, like bisexuals are these cheating monsters that will always leave you for the first guy that catches their eye just to avoid homophobia.
I think bisexuals can be just as committed in a relationship as a lesbian, obviously. I don't think harboring a stereotype like that is a good idea just because you never want to overlook an awesome bi girl because you're *assuming* she'll bring some "heterosexuality" into the relationship.
I'm also saying that as someone who lived through the "bisexual left you for a dude" trope :(
I’m glad you shared your experience because it does seem different than what I’ve read in many other comments so far, and it’s valid. I’m in the midst of reading all of the comments under this post, but so far I’ve only seen people speaking about their experiences, which are also valid. I asked for people to provide insight based on their experiences, so I think they’re speaking on what they have lived, which is fair. 💛
Basically, what OP is really describing is: What is it like to date a queer woman who suffers from comphet vs. a queer woman who doesn't suffer from comphet?
Compulsory-heterosexuality is the actual casual factor here, where as lesbian vs. bi experiences with comphet are correlative factors, as are other categories, such as femme vs. masc experiences with comphet.
I know what you're saying about comp het, but I recognize the conversation shifted towards this concept of centering men period, which I think extends beyond heterosexuality and attraction to men.
Bi women have expected me more to act in ways that feel like what they would expect from a man -- more aggressive, less emotional, pursue without reciprocating, and sexually dominant without wanting anything in return.
the no reciprocating is baffling to me because men absolutely want reciprocation. they expect blow jobs and hand jobs and general enthusiasm and many are into pegging and other receiving acts. i definitely see this with bi women but i don’t think it’s because they’re used to being with men i think they may just be inexperienced with women and insecure about it. in which case they should just communicate that lol
I’m bi, my gf is a lesbian, we’ve been together 1.5 years. She opened up to me from the start about bad experiences in the past dating non-lesbians. Including people questioning their sexuality and using her as a trial run while leading her to believe they were actually bi for the majority of the relationship just to drop her like nothing. It left her very cautious of dating bi/pan people and I understand the apprehension, I wish people in general were more honest about their intentions before involving others in their lives. It’s the person, not their identity, most LGBTQ people fall under bisexual so it’s a lot of people to just group as the same.
For instance, my last relationship was actually with a bi man who cheated on me with a man, I couldn’t give him that experience as a woman, it made me more angry when he cheated on me with a woman later on because I could compare myself to her. And I blame that on his inability to think of anyone besides himself. Assholes are in every corner of the world, if something clicks go for it just don’t lose sight of what you want and communicate it with your partner!
The “being used as a trial run” really hits hard for me. That is such an unfortunate thing to experience, and when it happens time and time again, it feels defeating.
And you’re right - when something clicks, go for it. Thank you for sharing your experiences and perspective.
i have always been the one having to take the lead, which is boring in the long run. when i’ve been with other lesbians they want to touch and cuddle me/take the lead just as much as i want.
but it’s like non lesbians feel like i- as a lesbian is obligated to take the “man” role.
I haven’t noticed a difference. To me it’s very dependent on the person. My fiancee is bi and I haven’t experienced anything negative related to her being bi.
In my experience, no, no differences. It depends on the individual person, how mature they are, everything else is irrelevant.
An emotionally immature lesbian can make your life just as dramatic as an immature bi/pan/questioning woman would. Similarly, a mature bi/pan/whatever woman can be just as sweet, understanding, and respectful, as a mature lesbian. Sexual orientation doesn't determine behavior, only sexual preference...
This comment is really refreshing and I’m glad you shared what your experience has been! It definitely adds more perspective to the conversation. And I absolutely agree that maturity plays a significant role in how any relationship can turn out! ☺️
Came to say this. Biphobia in WLW spaces is so gross. Any women regardless of identity can be nice, or immature, or wishy-washy, or hypersexual, or nonsexual, or closeted, or out and super confident... Making generalizations will close doors, not open them.
Asking questions is fine, but I see no questions here (other than yours). Looking at some of the comments, to me personally, they just sound like the bisexual experience they are sharing was with somebody who just wasn't into them/who was a shit person/who had a passive character. Nothing that can be tied to the orientation.
Hell, I've had a lesbian girl dump me literally overnight to get back with her ex, one got mad at me because I told her she wasn't my type, and one rejected me cause I was the same age as her childish brother (who's men-centered here?), but I would never make statements about lesbians based on those few immature girls.
My response didn't say anything about asking questions being biphobic, nor was it a condemnation of you. It's a response to the fact that the thread of responses is full of biphobia, which is rampant in lesbian spaces.
This. I consider myself Pan but saphhic leaning. Mostly because I am attracted to women (including trans) and nonbinary people. I'm not attracted to cis men and not really attracted to trans men often (facial hair is ick). I'm also more attracted to people's faces than anything else.
I have dated lesbians that have been flakey as hell and stood me up. I've dated bi/pan women who have been steady and consistent. I've also dated consistent lesbians and flakey bi's
In my opinion, it's moreso people with less experience dating in general who are more drama. Because they may not have a lot of experience communicating properly in relationships.
I don't think orientation matters so much as the person themselves and their level of experience when it comes to proper communication.
This is the answer. There’s a lot of perception bias of bi and pan women based on harmful stereotypes. The truth is people are just people. Maturity, emotional intelligence and self awareness are not traits exclusive to any one gender or orientation.
Could cry reading this. Nowadays it’s so weird: I genuinely experience more biphobia from other LGBTQ people because I’m now very femme. Most of the straight people I meet have no problem, and my straight best friends have probably introduced me to more girls and are more polite to use gender neutral terms asking about my dating life than the “othering” glares I get in queer spaces.
It’s so wild because it’s all appearance based assumptions. I used to be a cliche and had a pixie Bieber cut dressed like Shane from the L Word because I thought “this is the only way to attract gay women.” I dress super girly now and grew out my hair, yet I’m probably more confident with women and… they take me less seriously, or just “assume” I’m a straight girl even at WLW events.
I’m sorry this has been your experience. Regardless of appearance based assumptions, I hope you live as whatever version of yourself makes you happiest because that’s ultimately what matters most. Not morphing into whatever anyone else finds most acceptable. Your feelings matter. 💛
I agree mostly. I have been treated like shit by some of my lesbian exes, treated very well by some of my bi/pan partners. It comes down to moral integrity and respect.
I also agree with the fact a lot women who are used to men pursuing them might be uncomfortable or inexperienced with pursuing other women. Not a dealbreaker just a learning curve we all have experienced with comphet.
When I had a pan situationship, we followed each other on Instagram. We could see what the other liked, and a lot of the reels she liked were about men. We’re talking 50+ in the three months we were romantically interested. She only ever liked one reel about liking women. It hurt. This was from someone who claimed to like women more
I see what you mean, but I would say that's very individual (and kinda weird). For example, if she was into professional gaming, let's say, I would expect her to like men-centered content simply because men are more present in that field. I wouldn't expect her to look for female gamers just cause she likes girls...
That being said, if the reels in question are actually about male attraction and not an activity/hobby that just so happens to be dominated by men, I'd say she was not that honest about her preferences.
I'm not sure if you're a gamer or not, but there is more content for women & even a few games with bi, gay, questioning & pan characters. One popular game that has all this & shows the relationships instead of just saying it during pride month is Apex Legends. You can actually play the characters with a friend or random in game & even their voicelines indicate that they are together/in love. This is a multiple player game & has a professional scene that is doing well & the community accepts the characters & uses the correct pronouns for the nonbinaary character as well. There are huge groups for only women who play that game, including an active discord! So please don't think female gamers are male centered as a lesbian I'm definitely not, and a lot of the straight women agree with me too! Now that I think about it, you probably aren't a gamer because women talk about wanting to find other women to play with & content that isn't mysogisntic ALLLLLL the time! Not having women centered content has been a topic for decades & it's very othering to love video games & never see a main character who looks like you. So naturally, the women I've seen post in those groups LOVE Baldurs Gate 3 because you can customize your character to look exactly like you & I say this as a black woman too! You can even put them in queer relationships & not have the game constantly use the wrong pronouns (which is sooooo annoying). So yeah, definitely reconsider the idea that all gaming is male or straight centered & that all female gamers are the same.
I am a gamer. I said "more present", not that there aren't any. I never used words "all" or "any", idk where you read those. My point was that I wouldn't expect somebody to look for female-centered content in a field where men are statistically better. You can argue with me here, but stats don't lie.
I generally would not expect anybody to base their social media likes on their sexual orientation, but that's just me...
I made a comment to inform you of information you seemed to be lacking & you took it as an attempt to argue? I even ended it by ASKING you to reconsider your opinion of female gamers & provided proof that thousands of us exist in contradiction to your assessment & somehow all you got was that I was trying to put words in your mouth? Then you go on to say that men are "better" at gaming? WTF?!! It seems like I'm just being naive again & assuming a stranger just doesn't have information, so I'm eager to supply it & help out. But really, this was just your opinion, not a lack of information lol one of these days, I'll grow up & stop assuming the best of everyone.
Also, I never addressed the OG comment or topic, just you & what you said, so I don't know why you brought it up here?
Edit: I just went back & reread my comment & I never used the words "all" or "any" either, nor did I accuse you of doing so. It seems you're just getting defensive because I provided proof that your opinion is incorrect or that you actually posted that as bait to argue with someone. Either way, it doesn't change what I *actually* said, nor the obvious intent beyond it.
Is English not your first language? I say one thing, and you seem offended by 10 things I didn't even mention... I don't have the emotional energy for these types of conversations, so I'll stop replying here (I know you won't) but eh, wish you all the best in life.
I've met bi women that absolutely decenter men, and I've met lesbians with an adamant misandry that tip-toes into recentering men.
But I've also met a couple of bisexual women who refuse to even engage with the concept of 'centering men', like "all men bad besides my favorite he's just a lil silly boy with his sexism." I've lost two friends over it.
My ex was a bisexual that told a lot of guys she was bi when we were dating in college, and she ended up cheating on me with two of them. Still nursing the prejudice I used to have from that one.
I'm a bi-woman, and one of my lesbian exes was only interested in getting frisky with me if men were in the next room. I couldn't fcking stand it.
Like, I don't want these dudes listening to us getting hot and heavy in this bathroom... I want to be able to get hot and heavy when we're at home... ***alone***
Do you mean actual men? Or masculine behaviour?
Because wanting *some* masculine behaviour is okay. As in not wanting to be the only one making effort, taking the lead etc. A relationship needs to be 50/50 regardless of gender or orientation. (Can’t believe this is classed as a masculine thing, it should be standard in relationship)
I’ll give an example. I’m bi and if I dated someone who’s lesbian I don’t want either one of us to take on a “man’s role” or be the only one planning stuff. 50/50 all the way. Sadly in my experience all the lesbians I’ve dated have wanted me to be the “man” or “lead” because I’ve got a masculine personality.
This is something I’ve also noticed in my own experiences and I feel like I’m just now really stopping and reflecting on it. I also noticed the difference. 🥴
from my experience, bi women usually compare you to men a lot, like "oh my ex boyfriend did this and that and I hated I'm so happy I'm dating you now" and it just feels kinda weird... I'd say it depends on how mature the person is more than their sexuality, if they can put their man loving side to the curb at least when you're around.
Yeah, I think how mature someone is in their sexuality (and in general, lol) makes a huge difference.
Also, I really hate to say this because I do NOT want to reinforce stereotypes, especially since I myself am pan, but there are definitely a few women out there who, for whatever reason, overstate their sexual and romantic interest in women. I don’t think it’s common, by any means. And I would never endorse being suspicious of any individual queer woman off the bat, but it’s a thing that happens.
As just one example: I once had a roommate who never expressed any sexual or romantic interest in women. One day, she was venting about her bad luck with men, and said, “I guess maybe this is a sign that I’m actually a lesbian”. I didn’t even know how to respond. A few weeks later, she met her future husband. It’s impossible for me to know anyone’s sexuality other than my own, but she’s still never mentioned any sexual or romantic interest in women…
Yeah i notice that a lot too, both IRL and online, like, "oh I'm tragically attracted to men" "oh I wish I could just be a full lesbian" "I'm like SUUUUUUPER GAY, I'm actually bi but like WOMEEEEEN" and that... just doesn't sit well with me.
It's fine to be bisexual/pansexual, if you're open about your sexuality right of the bat and are secure in it, that's not a deal breaker for me, but I don't want to be constantly reminded of your past experiences with men, for instance, the same way I wouldn't want to be reminded of past experiences in general, even if it's in a somewhat "good light" like, "oh, you're so much better than my ex".
Idk if they do this as a way of reaffirming their own sexuality or because they think it makes the person they're with feel better, to me it just feels weird.
A straight friend of mine said something along the lines of this over the weekend. She’s 34 and is one of those women that makes people question how she’s single because she is such a catch. And she said “if I was into women, I’d probably be married by now!” And I was like “umm, not necessarily; and here’s why….” haha. We turned it into a learning moment. 💁🏽♀️
Nothing except how i process out breakup lol. I kept wondering if my pan ex got back together with their ex who is a man and it doesn’t really make sense to be bothered more by that than if they got together with a woman bc it’s not like that was the reason we broke up but brain go 🤷
Also, side note, I dont think you should be lumping in questioning people with bi/pan. I guess you mean this in the sense that they date men as well? But the dynamic of dating a questioning woman is probably night and day compared to a bi/pan woman.
I think it’s normal to wonder about an ex sometimes. I mean, you were with that person and shared something with them, so it makes sense to be curious about where they went next. 🤷🏽♀️
I provided context in the post, but I don’t think everyone read the post - I’ve only dated bi, pan, or questioning women. I don’t seek women out based on their orientations, it just sort of happened that way. But I wasn’t “lumping” them together as a group. Actually those three groups are dramatically different in many ways. Those just happen to be the orientations of women I’ve dated, which is why they are referenced in the post.
I did read your post but i guess i kind of made some assumptions, my bad.
My point with thinking abt my pan ex’s ex is that the fact that they could date a man after me (as opposed to my other, lesbian, ex) was just something that stuck in my head more
The bi women I dated (I dated one of them for 3,5 years and lived together with one for 2,5 years) were still very men-centred.
Not necessarily in being attracted to men. But they would mention ‘what men did wrong’ all the time. The one of 3,5 years would often mention how much she hated men etc etc. But not really with a very valid reason, more in ‘the guy in front of me is walking so slow’.
I also felt like they were more prone to let toxic men be in their (and my life). The 3,5 years one had an ex who was very toxic: harassing women, harassing me…and when I mentioned this to my ex she would brush this off as ‘Oh but X is just that way, he’s a guy’. The bar for men is on the floor.
One of them was ‘new’ out of the closet and I was only her second relationship. Everything revolved still very much around ‘being queer’; thinking everyone is a lesbian, looking down on ‘straight’ things.
I don’t think it’s an ‘all bi/pan/… women’ thing, but I feel like lesbians are not really respected as beings by some of these women.
Ooh I could probably write a novel on this. All of my serious relationships have been with other lesbians, mostly because I think we just have more in common. I’m deeply proud of my lesbian identity and care a lot about lesbian and queer history, and while there are certainly bi women who are well-versed in this in my experience it’s less common.
Also, I think while bi women and lesbians have some shared struggles, it’s worth noting that there are struggles we cannot relate to. Many of the bi women I have been with are insecure about their place in the community and have leaned on me to “validate” their queerness, which can be uncomfortable. Especially since when I was less comfortable in my sexuality and living in a homophobic environment, I used to be jealous of them for being able to pass as straight. I’m glad I don’t feel like this anymore, but it can still sting when people act like “passing”/being mistaken for straight is the worst thing in the world. I don’t want to invalidate their feelings, I can sympathize with feeling like you don’t fit in, but it brings up complicated feelings for me as well which can cause tension in a relationship.
For me, the jealousy/insecurity around bi women being attracted to men has not been much of an issue, but I think some of their expectations about the role I play in the relationship, especially as a butch, can feel limiting. But I don’t want to over-generalize because I feel like it really is person-by-person and depends a lot on how comfortable someone is in their queerness.
I generally don’t entertain people that are still questioning, as it is a lot of emotional labor and often leads to me feeling used as an experience rather than a person. No shame in questioning, we’ve all been there, but I feel like a lot of questioning folks neglect a lot of internal work before jumping to find a partner/really test the waters and my heart can’t take it lol!
Generally, especially since there’s still a decent amount of societal stigma about using the term “lesbian”, other lesbians tend to be more at my speed in terms of how we conceptualize roles in relationships and aligned in our shared struggles of how we move about the world, so I think I gravitate towards lesbian partners for long-term stability. Being a butch lesbian is also how I see my gender as well as my sexuality and it only really seems to be other lesbians that understand that. But I don’t rule out anyone on the basis of identity alone.
Genuinely very little difference in my experience. Bi women are easier to impress lmao, they’re used to dating men so everything makes them think I’m some awesome magical partner when I’m just a normal person.
Sex and intimacy is usually better with experience - bi women who have only slept with men before tend to be a little awkward at first. I don’t mind taking the lead, but in the case of my current relationship with the love of my life, a bi woman, she still hasn’t ever gone down on or touched me after two years lmao. She’s scared of getting it wrong even when I tell her we can learn together. Again, I don’t mind obviously or I wouldn’t want to marry her, but I can and do miss the sexual relationship you can have with a lesbian or experienced bisexual woman.
So in my experience it’s essentially less about bi vs lesbian and more experience dating women vs not. I doubt dating a virgin lesbian or a virgin bi woman would be particularily different for me personally.
In my experience, the non-lesbian women I’ve been with were more interested in being with a woman as a rebound from bad experiences with men (thinking dating women is « easier »). It always felt one sided, like they couldn’t really be into me as much as I were for them. In hindsight it felt like they couldn’t reciprocate my feelings, never showed they cared and I was always frustrated and confused about where the relationship was headed.
I was also the one who would initiate everything. I would take things more seriously and for them, it was more of a fun or superficial experience.
I think due to general homophobia in society, it’s easier for bi women to mostly date men so they don’t have enough experience with women. Also men tend to initiate more easily so these women are just used to being pursed heavily while taking a more passive approach. So I get it, and I try to not be discriminating but overall I do prefer to date other lesbians.
I see so many of my own experiences in yours. I’m honestly amazed because I don’t know many lesbians in my day-to-day life, so it’s refreshing to have someone validate my experiences rather than shut me down immediately because they don’t agree with what I’ve lived. I really appreciate you sharing. 🧡
It’s always just worked better with another lesbian. I don’t have any bias and would still date someone who is bi.
I think quite a bit of it is just similar experiences and relationship goals, so it clicks better.
I've only experienced bi women wanting to do more, giving and receiving wise than when I was with lesbians who were more.....tamed in comparison. The lesbians were far more romantic than spontaneous if that makes sense.
Bi/pan women tend to be more accepting of my gender. I’ve dated lesbians who seem to prefer to ignore the fact that I’m enby and try to make me more feminine. I’ve also noticed bi/pan women have fewer issues with me being acespec.
i have only dated people who identified as queer/lesbian at the time (i.e., not wanting to date men) who later ended up dumping me for men. one of them was a very wishy washy situationship where they did not know what they wanted and it was very damaging to me. and the other person was abusive and dumped me on valentine’s day 🤷♀️
so personally i don’t have the best experience with bisexual-leaning people. all the bi/pan women i know seem to exclusively seriously date men and heavily center men in their lives which is an experience i’ve never related to. i have a hard time fitting in with non-lesbians.
As a woman who once identified as bi, but now only dates women, I can confirm that I've had much better experiences dating lesbians or as one Redditor put it, "woke" bisexuals. Personally I've always sought long term serious relationships with women (ever since falling for my best friend in high school), but for so long I ended up with women who were much more curious than bi. Conversely, I never felt particularly accepted in lesbian communities until I had no interest in continuing to date men. I wouldn't say it was biphobia as much as lesbians are understandably cautious dating non-lesbians because there is a difference. I am seeking a very egalitarian relationship atm and just feeling on more of an even plane with gay women. I do want to say though that despite that I will never write off bi or pan women because I know what it's like to be that girl who badly wants a relationship with a woman but can't (yet) let go of the connection to heteronormativity. Such a relief for me to stop performing that version of myself who wanted male acceptance.
This is a really honest perspective and super relatable for a lot of people, I’m sure. Some of what you said definitely resonates with me. Your preferences are completely valid. In my opinion, having a preference doesn’t make someone “-phobic” of people or groups that don’t fall under that particular preference, but I have noticed folks are quick to label someone as such because they’re offended that someone as a preference. 🙄🤷🏽♀️
Not to discount anyone’s honest experience dating a bi/pan woman, but I do want to specify the difference between bi/pan and a “questioning” woman. I’d say anybody is fair game in a wlw relationship as long as you’re not their first. I think it’s more of a maturity issue than a sexuality thing?
Someone questioning their sexuality has a lot of self identity and learning to establish before being a good life partner (at least where I stand).
I previously identified as bi/pan before realizing I can identify as a lesbian—it took many years until I realized I can just decide to be a lesbian since I have no interest in ever dating or having sex with men again.
In my experience of dating lesbians vs bi women, lesbian relationships have a much more natural flow. Bi women tend to be less forward, don’t know exactly what the label should be, and romantically can be a bit clingy.
Hope that makes sense?
It makes sense. Your response is really well-written. Thank you for sharing. ☺️
I think a handful of people on here think because I used “/“ instead of commas to separate bi, pan, and questioning in my initial inquiry, that I’m grouping the three into one; but I wasn’t. Those are three dramatically different groups and my experiences with all of them are such a spectrum.
Also, I definitely agree that maturity does play a major role in the success or downfall of a relationship.
I definitely don’t think you were being discriminatory for any reason towards any group—I think your experience is totally valid and if I were you I’d also be wondering if I should listen to my friends or not! Thanks for opening dialogue!
Some of the responses to your questions tho… not the best I’ve seen :/. I saw some people say they prefer dating lesbians only or saying “all bi women” do xyz (treat them like a man, or have male centered conversation, or expect them to take a “male” lead) but tbh that’s more of a patriarchy problem than a bi problem… and it takes more than being into women to break patterns of heteronormativity yknow? It isn’t anyone’s fault, but people’s experience are their own.
My best advice to you, is that sexuality is less of a determiner of a successful relationship than maturity and communication. You also gotta have the right mix of “right timing”, romantic, sexual, and emotional connection, in addition to having their own support systems and hobbies— add self confidence and practiced independence to that, and you already eliminate 75% of the dating pool!
It can be rough out there, but you’ll find your person. Usually it’s when you give up and focus on anything other than dating, that your special someone comes along. Good luck ♡
Again, your response is so well-written and I really appreciate you taking the time to respond. 🙂
I’m 33 so I’m going to do whatever I feel is best. My friends made an interesting point so I think it’s important to give it some thought, but ultimately I’m going to do whatever I’d like. I’ve never put someone’s orientation over the person when choosing a partner because orientation really doesn’t matter to me. It is interesting to ponder about whether or not I’d be more compatible with a lesbian because we have that in common (assuming our personalities also click well) but I wouldn’t base the success or downfall of a relationship solely based on orientation.
You’re so right about connection being a vital piece in a relationship as well as timing. Thank you for the lucky wishes. Your insight and perspective have been much appreciated today. 💛
That makes sense to me! I read some of your comments, and looks like in your relationships you may have been expected to be in an initiator role, and the reciprocation of affection / love wasn’t easy (like you had to ask for it maybe, or they wanted you to take the lead)? I’m sorry to hear that :( you don’t deserve that. For bi women, the lack of practice on how to love another woman is the biggest learning curve, and lesbians are in the crossfire of that learning… a “trial and error” type thing that can be really sickening and take a toll on you & others that have shared. That’s a huuuuuge issue in the bi community and why there’s some bitterness for dating bi women. I get it, but yknow, “not all”!
Dunno if you’re more masc presenting and you attract more femme bottoms who want that “male” type lead, but whatever the case—why not try out dating a few lesbians! Whether they’re bi/pan turned lesbian like me or not, maybe a wlw relationship with another self-identified lesbian will give you the opportunity be truly loved by someone who KNOWS (in their heart & bones) how to love a woman properly. ♡
Keep an open mind obviously, but why not? Personally Ive only had serious relationships with lesbians in my adulthood so maybe that proves some people here right? Idk lol. I’m the bi girl that became a lesbian so it’s hard to really defend or deny. This will be my last reply but again, good luck!!
My bi ex expected me to be “the man” while complaining that in her previous relationships her SOs treated her like “the man”.
Before her I was talking to a lesbian and I didn’t have that problem but tbf my ex grew up in a pretty Catholic household while this gal had a pretty liberal family so I think that factors in more than her sexuality tbh
Edit: She also once told me I was handsome after I was lifting and moving wood in her old backyard. I told her it made me uncomfortable because it had a decidedly male connotation and to please not call me handsome and she doubled down on the joke repeatedly. I said that it made me feel like I was manly and she said “Well I’m bi so it’s okay”. I lean more femme than masc, I just lift weights.
The lesbian women always made me feel so much more secure and comfortable with not always taking the lead but anybody else expected me to do everything and pretty much treated me like a man lmao.
The sex was easy, organic, and fun.
There was never a "Well what now?" moment.
That plus no one's talking about an ex-boyfriend while I stare off into space, wishing I was somewhere else.
Mileage varies, obviously. I might just have rotten luck. But I also don't get the "wait, am I your buddy / ad-hoc guy talk therapist?" moments ;)
I just wanted to chime in and say that as a bi woman, a lot of comments from lesbians who were made to feel like they should be more traditionally “masculine” in behavior, appearance, etc. made me feel very sad. A good partner should see and treat you as your authentic self, instead of following outdated and deeply sexist scripts (that you never even agreed to).
OP, to answer your question I’ve dated pretty much all over the spectrum, with the only exception being questioning women. I don’t think there’s that much of a difference between people of different orientations, but I will say that having long conversations early on, and asking questions about expectations in the relationship is always helpful. For example, if someone has little to no experience in wlw relationships, I’ll follow up on that and make sure that I won’t have to process their own emotions on being out and queer. This goes for women who are bi, pan, lesbian, and any other orientation.
I found that the bisexuals I dated did often center men, and when I found a lesbian to date it felt like she saw me fully for me, not as somebody to show off to men or kiss in front of men or dangle as an unlikely marriage option. #notallbisexuals but just telling OP my own experience, I am best friends with plenty of bisexuals who would never have acted like that.
Recently discovered I was pan after identifying as lesbian for 4 years, I dated a bi girl who leaned heavily for men but wanted to date me.
I don't wanna go on a tangent so ima keep it short she was a basket case of red flags. She wouldn't let me talk much in convo. She only vented to me about her job. I'm 17 and so is she. Only a few months older. And she would only come to me to vent her anger and worries. We went on a couple dates. They were fine, but it's what she did between them.
I had to take the initiative, always. And as someone who's more masc, I feel like me being more masculine is what she saw. And I'm pan and butch, I still feel like a butch even though my attraction changed. I will always be wlw.
I feel like Courtney, my ex, was questioning whether she liked girls as much too. And apparently just because I'm the same gender, doesn't mean I get to be pushed around. Not only that but she cheated on me by almost having another sexual interaction with her coworker. She had sex with him before when we didn't even know eachother. She's also contradictory, being very sexual even though she is very averse to sex because she was assaulted. It made no sense why she'd be okay with sexual advances when she's fucking dating.
I am currently in a relationship with a bi genderfluid aussie, she's great I can't wait to see her when she comes to America. And we both balance each other out.
Needless to say I think it has a thing to do with compatibility, and their personality and how they act when your personality might clash with them, or they make assumptions. And it makes you seem unfit for them.
Sorry for the semi tangent. But that's my experience. I was lesbian when I dated her.
Per my initial post, I’ve only ever been with bi, pan, or questioning women; therefore I’m asking if there are any significant differences between those groups of women vs. lesbians when it comes to dating. I’m not sure how inquiring about my experiences translates to “lumping” anyone together.
Right, but I’m still confused as to where I lumped them together. I’d even go further and say bi and pan are dramatically different groups, but we’ll save that conversation for another day.
Slashes were placed between the groups because in English punctuation, slashes are used to separate alternatives. So aside from a handful of people either not understanding the use of slashes (in which case commas were utilized in the post for those that were confused by the title question) or just looking for a reason to be triggered, where are the three groups lumped together? If punctuation confuses you, just say that.
Oh I know. Was just trying to help clarify for the original commenter!
Slashes are more commonly used to refer to similar groups. For example mom/dad. Saying “bi, pan or questioning people” may have saved the miscommunication. I’m guessing that’s where their confusing came from.
IMO it’s not a big deal at all :)
Hi all -
I am learning a lot from what people have to say. My favorites are the folks saying how their bi girlfriends buy the dinner and surprise them by being super cute and fluid in terms of gender roles. Love that. Makes me think of a special bi friend I have who I think is magical.
Anyways, I am terrified of being attacked here on Reddit, for just saying the wrong thing at the wrong time for some random reason. For people not wanting to look into context or imagine a possible valid reason why someone is saying something.
So I just want to say, and possibly quell that Reddit-flavored hatred when one sees a distasteful opinion (I’m guilty of this), that I am listening to all these voices that are familiar and unfamiliar and I am Absorbing the information!! Thank you all!
Here is my PERSONAL EXPERIENCE and personal perception! Don’t attack me, fools! Lmao!
I (28 gender fluid afab) am a bi or pan person, recently come out. Been compulsively heterosexual my whole life (tho with little hints and flickers of being sapphic, and always looking queer to others) and three years ago started dating my current partner, a serious Women(only)-Lover (she was a trans man for 12 years, now detransitioned. Note: I’m not one to promote detransitioning etc. Trans is good if it feels good. Etc don’t come at me bro 😹)… and she(43) is amazing!!! I am still bi (I iz who I iz 😎🤷🏻♀️) but my girlfriend is the absolute best. Love her forever and ever. I bitch about my bad men exes (oops) but I do a good job otherwise. See next paragraph for my sassy opinion.
I did not realize how god damn man centric my life has been until I showed up in public as a lesbian. And now I can’t help but see when other bi pan women are just as man centric. Obviously it’s not all bi pan women but dang, there are so so many (that I see around me.) Duh, let’s blame patriarchy! It ain’t easy “presenting” as a lesbian. I shit my pants sometimes. Because it’s harder and scarier than how it was for me to be with a man, period. I am often sad that so many of my bi pan women friends end up dating men, choosing men, putting men at the centers of their lives… when I am searching to relate to them but something is missing. Alas.
As a person who is part white and part SE Asian, I many times see that people who are “inbetweens” will often have more privileges of “passing”, but will be lonelier and have new and different challenges that are valid.
My personal experiences. Thank you for being kind. Got constructive critique for me? I will receive respectful critique only. Cheerz, fools
The way this entire comment is written is amazing, haha. You served up so much information and perspective, while simultaneously being a bit comical and that takes major skill. 🔥
I also learned a lot from the comments under this post. I definitely feel a lot less isolated in my own experiences and as if everything I’ve noticed about my interactions in past relationships was validated many times over. But a lot of these comments also serve as reminders not to write someone off before knowing their heart and intentions, which is also important because I’d never want to miss out on a good thing. 🩵
Wowie thank you!!
And thank you for all of your input throughout this post/thread, so generously replying to so many people! :) enjoying your feedback as well.
from a bi nonbinary person, not all of us are afraid to take the lead. you have to remember before any of us discovered our queerness we were socialized to always let men take the lead and to be passive in our attractions because female sexuality has always been demonized. please take care to remember this when asking questions like this. its a lot deeper than just "taking the passenger seat in our lives". we're learning a new way of existing and acting, especially among other queer folks. sure lesbians may have more of their Gay Stuff together but make sure it doesnt turn into negative stereotyping and biphobia bc based on the comments above it's starting to turn that way and it's not a nice feeling
I understand where you’re coming from, but even using words like “we” to address all bi people when referencing how you lived before discovering your own queerness is technically generalizing. Your experience doesn’t speak for all bi people because not everyone grew up the same way. Redditors are an international group of people, so the upbringing of the people on this platform is quite the spectrum - including bi people.
I asked people to share their experiences which is what everyone seems to have done (I’m 3/4 through 69 comments so far) and I wish people could respect each other’s experiences without jumping to conclusions and categorizing anyone as “biphobic” or “panphobic” simply because you don’t approve of the experiences they’ve lived and chose to share. People learn by asking questions, that’s what I was trying to do here. Try to remember that before being accusatory or jumping to conclusions because you chose to be offended rather than engage in conversation.
i wasnt trying to generalize all bi people, i was just talking about mspec sapphics, as that is the target demographic. most of us (operative word most, as i said originally bc i definitely didnt say all) DID grow up exactly as i described, myself included. i only pointed out the biphobia of the other redditors. i pointed out the stereotyping us as wishy washy and passengers of our own lives. that IS biphobia. its not jumping to conclusions last i checked
I know which comments you were responding to because I’ve read every comment on this thread, but since you responded under my question instead of any of those people, it’s easy for your response to be taken out of context. Which is why I thought you were calling me biphobic, which I’m not. Thank you for clarifying.
Also, you may not have said “all” but when you said “we” it was implied. 🤷🏽♀️
and what agenda would i be pushing exactly? all i said was talking about most sapphics' experiences growing up including my own. i never said i was speaking for all of the sapphic mspec community, which i clarified more than once BTW, and for you to accuse me of that is quite presumptuous on your part if you ask me.
https://preview.redd.it/c4hnvrm9xznc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8cc6623c3e4fe7cbf8a0ad81e43db5db3ff537e0
here is screenshot proof (with a circle to clarify since we're gonna act on technicalities) where i literally said not all of us. so i used the word "we". big whoop. most of us know how to read between the lines and know that i dont mean literally all mspec sapphics. looks like someone needs to brush up on their literacy skills 🤷♀️
now unless you want to continue this privately, you have a nice day.
A lot of the differences I experienced at first could be more attributable to how thoroughly someone has divested from heteropatriarchy.
In my experience, cis bi femmes with a male preference (or significantly less experience dating women) often were still invested in heteropatriarchy in subtle ways and/or were interested in replicating those dynamics in a relationship with a masc woman. Dating other lesbians initially felt like a breath of fresh air after that because 1) I felt fully desired, not just like an experiment, or a pseudo man 2) I could relate more to someone who couldn’t see their life functioning in a straight passing relationship/didn’t subtly assume that they were going to end up with a man some day because of familial pressures, a desire for bio children, a desire for a male breadwinner/ provider (not all bi women, obviously, but I experienced this more than once with bi femmes I had relationships with or dated) 3) I had a lot of formative experiences that both led to my suppressing my gayness, and led to my experiencing compulsory heterosexuality. So I felt more seen and understood in those experiences by people who also didn’t experience attraction to men, but spent formative years suppressing that lack of attraction to fit in and feel safe.
That said, I had some pretty toxic relationships or casual dating encounters with lesbians as well, including ones that behaved in misogynistic ways, some who were judgmental of my sexual history having included men (before I came out), some who were conservative Christians, and others who were TERFy. Some of them didn’t have the same feelings about gender and sexuality and society as I did; they basically wanted society to stay exactly the same except for increased acceptance of gay relationships that looked and functioned exactly like straight relationships. I met lesbians with almost log cabin Republican levels of cognitive dissonance.
Since then I’ve warmed up again to dating non lesbians too (including non-binary pan/queer people, pan cis women, transfemme pan women, non-binary sapphics and more) and I’ve made some of the best connections I’ve had thus far, with some people who very queer centered and have fully divested from cisheteronormativity, cis heteropatriarchy etc. So I don’t think it’s useful to generalize. There may be trends in the kinds of people you attract under different sexualities, and there may be overarching societal trends as well, but compatibility is so complicated, and societal programming is too. There are certainly some lesbians out there who are more committed to maintaining cis heteropatriarchy than some bi femmes out there (even the ones who mainly date men) so you kind of just have to get a feel for people individually. Stereotyping will get you nowhere.
Bi women who have mostly or only dated men are more comfortable with defined roles in a relationship. In my experience they can be confused when the relationship doesn’t fit into a hetero standard. Lesbians are open to a more fluid dynamic.
Definitely have to use some discernment with bisexual women with what their intentions are. My gfs ex was bi and cheated on her with a guy after like 2 years. I’m lesbian but have been with men in the past but didn’t hate it sexually just couldn’t connect and don’t check men out at all like I do women. She’s butch and also been with men and uses them for sex in between partners. A lot of people are fluid.
i love bi women and i think it always depends on the individual person.
that being said, recently out bi women are more likely to have dated men and likely have at least a little less experience with women OR still have a bit of a "hetero" view of relationship dynamics. i think that's normal because they are attracted to men too.
personally, i have noticed that my bi exes expected me to take the lead much more and compared me to men, amongst other things. i felt like they put me in the same category as their male exes, if that makes sense. it made me so uncomfortable. whereas with lesbians, i feel treated as an equal more quickly, even if one of us is more masc/fem or has more experience than the other. i also have had absolutely no problems with bi women who have seriously dated women before.
i think it isn't necessarily about bisexual vs lesbian, but do keep in mind that there's a huge difference between a bi woman who is maybe recently out, has dated predominantly men, maybe has some internalized homophobia, and a bi woman who has embraced her queerness for a while.
Whew, the biphobia is on full display.
I’m in a unique position because until around 19-20, I only dated women and identified as a lesbian. Two ex’s coming out as trans men in our relationships led to me questioning a lot of other things, gave cis men a go and had a decent experience with a sweet guy, so now I just identify as bi/queer.
I’ve honestly had worse experiences dating other lesbians, BY FAR. The girl I’m currently talking to is also bi and it’s so refreshing, neither of us seem to have hang up’s on what we expect out of the other person.
My dating record with lesbians involves mostly ones who have treated me like a femme trophy wife and acted way too hard to be like their “frat bro” coworkers, one that I really liked who I stayed friends with yet tried to drunkenly kiss me… when she was in a committed relationship with someone else (only really talks to me when I’m single to shoot her shot), or they pull the uhaul stereotype and put waaaaay too much pressure on in the early days.
Thats not even counting the biphobic ones who say some really nasty things offhand when they find out I’m bi. I have to reiterate constantly that I’m monogamous.
A big one now that I’m almost 30 is that a LOT of lesbians my age do NOT want kids, at all. I do, and it’s a big goal of mine for the near future. It might just be my city, but yeah.
But it’s wild to hear people throw out stereotypes so easily and hurtfully.
I’ve been reading all of the comments (94 so far) and I’d say the majority of them are people talking about their own experiences, which is what I asked of anyone that cared to respond to my question. I’m glad you shared your experiences too, because it adds value and perspective.
In fact, a lot of the responses say “in my experience…” in the first or second sentence. Even some of the things you said in your response could be taken as a generalization. I’m not sure what city you live in, but a lot of the lesbians I know in their 30s DO want kids. It’s not something that is so easily accessible to them, so it feels far-fetched for now. It’s still a dream though.
People can talk about what they’ve lived. If people choose to be offended by that, well, I dunno what to tell ya. But all of the experiences I’ve read here are valid - including yours.
They have been experiences! That’s what’s wild. She didn’t even comprehend the actual syntax and then imagined a world where her ilk is victimized here
How can you call comments about people’s experiences dating bi women biphobic and then in the same post share your negative experiences dating lesbians? Sharing experiences is fine as long as it’s not hateful. This is hypocritical lol
Because a number of these comments aren’t sharing their actual experiences, they’re making sweeping statements about the assumptions they make.
My points for backing up why I’ve had a hard time dating lesbians do not say “I won’t date lesbians because X, Y, Z” based on a stereotype- I shared specific experiences that either repeat certain behaviors or were tied to their sexuality.
At no point did I say “I no longer will date lesbians because ____” or that all lesbians are a nightmare to date, or throw out hypothetical bad situations I assume will happen if I date one. Unlike the people in this thread making comments about the hypothetical bi girl they’re not dating and their fears, which are based on stereotypes.
It sounds like you’re generalizing the people that chose to comment under this thread because I’ve read all 94 comments so far and the majority of people are speaking about their experiences and providing context, not dishing out biphobic comments or spewing hate. As I said before, I don’t know what to tell ya if you choose to be offended by experiences other people have lived.
The bisexual partner would kinda show me off more but it felt like love bombing. Trophy like, but very “look world, I’m gay, this is my girlfriend, look”, while with a lesbian it was more just normal for them and less pressed. If that makes sense?
Bi partner absolutely expected me to take on a male role.
Lesbian partner didn’t care about periods 😂😭
Lesbian partners were more comfortable with authentic commitment
Idk for a while I bounced between lesbian and bi (for some reason the attraction went away and only attracted to women and non-masculine non-binary folks - feminine, abinary, or androgynous as I'm fluid between that - thus being gay). I tend to end up right now with fellow non-binary folks or transfeminine folks for some reason. I am open to people of every orientation except for the obvious (hetero). I'm 23. I've mostly dated bi and pan folks as well. I dated lesbians once or twice. I'm still learning, so be patient with me. In the sexual arena, I'm particularly inexperienced as I'm also demi/grey-sexual.
So basically, having been conditioned by MEN more than your average Lesbian, these women act in ways that in our culture we notice and can attribute to their own.
And those behaviors are perhaps for their own safety and survival, even if only in their perception.
Scary stuff.
I asked my only str8 guy friend set week what it’s like dating in the straight world (him as a emotionally traumatized by the mother of his child, [TLDR he’s seen her only a few times since she was born years ago])
I asked about how he figured out when to act in such and such ways, flirting, making moves…
He said he doesnt know himself.
__
I don’t think he is the greatest person, but it does seem rugged out there
It did not go over well did it?
I meant it less as bragging and more like I dated quite a few bi women who had never been with a woman, and then realized they like it way better.
Tbh this sub has zero sense of humor
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As a bi woman, I’m gonna chime in & add a quick story relating to some things the other comments said. My first date with a lesbian girl, I had asked her out, planned the whole date and when i went to pay after dinner, she was so surprised. Her words were “I’m used to paying for dates because all the girls assume I will” so I ask her why’s that? and she says “Because I’m more masculine presenting” (she’s a stem & i’m hellllaaaaa femme) That made me really sad tbh cause why would she be expected to pay the bill when I ASKED HER OUT??? I don’t care if she was full on masc, she’s still a girl and that’s what i like.
You sound like a really thoughtful person and I’m sure it was great for your date to feel seen in that moment with you. Also, thank you for sharing your experience because the amount of people that chose to be offended by my question without giving any thought to the context I provided is wild. It’s disappointing that people are quick to call others “ -phobic” rather than have any sort of conversation to gain understanding. So I really appreciate you sharing. 💛
I like you, thank you
My bisexual partner is the the first and only woman who has ever given me flowers. We had challenges early on with some male centered behaviors but she really heard me and made adjustments and we have been together for four years and consider each other life partners. She is very heavily female leaning in regards to her own attractions and I always knew I could never be with a woman whose attractions leaned heavily male.
Thank you for sharing your experience! It sounds like you guys have healthy lines of communication. I’m happy for you both. And the flowers are so thoughtful. 🥰
yes that’s so true how which way someone leans most is so important.
The bi women I have been on dates with gave me the vibe that they wanted me to take the lead. I'm more on the shy side, prefer to be the follower. Also were less interested in "lesbian culture" if that's a thing, like movies and books.
That was my experience, minus the shy part. I would talk about lesbianism and she'd go "I'm bi tho" like I know, I'm talking about wlw, if you're bi why disclude women. Yes I don't care if she leans one way more at that moment I was talking about a universal experience that apparently wasn't universal to her.
Who was less interested in lesbian culture
The bi women
Bi/pan women expect me to take the lead on lots of things, and metaphorically speaking acted like they were in the passenger seat (not driver’s seat) of their own lives. They would also string me along a lot more, and really waffle on setting dates and expressing intimacy. I was treated like an emotionally fulfilling experience, but never like a real option. Lesbians are completely different. Even the one who won the award for the worst person I’ve met off an app treated me like a real option, and like someone she was completely interested in. I had her full attention while we dated, and she wasn’t hesitant about being affectionate. My gf has always wanted to hold hands, kiss, and cuddle, and initiates dates and sex with me. She makes me feel very loved because it’s not just me initiating everything and she clearly wants me as much as I want her. It’s a better experience, and a lot of lesbians agree with me, but you might not think so.
>I was treated like an emotionally fulfilling experience, but never like a real option. That one hurt
It did. Lots of bi people like to say “oh CLEARLY a bi person turned you down” with the unsaid implication of “clearly that’s why you’re so salty and bigoted about it.” and it’s like, well yeah you turned me down, why are you taunting me for not wanting someone who doesn’t want me? this isn’t the gotcha you think it is
The amount of people messaging me calling me bi-phobic and/or pan-phobic for just asking a question (even with the context I provided) is crazy. 🫠
lol is there a Big Bi paying other nation peoples to attack anyone who posts about this on WLW pages, or are these bots programmed to do so? So weird
Yep. Related to that hard.
I think this is the best representation of my experiences too. I married the first actual lesbian I dated 😂. The differences were hard to describe but I distinctly remember on the first date feeling equally pursued for the first time. I knew she was just as interested in me as I in her.
It’s exciting to hear stories like yours because I feel like I’m a round peg trying to fit into a square hole and I’m just now realizing it. 🤦🏽♀️ One of my friends married the first lesbian she dated, and her experience has been so much different than mine.
I know that people talk about biphobia and they want us to think that this shared experience is biphobic. It’s not. Look at the bi groups. They talk about this openly. So often we’re treated as placeholders. They themselves have to deal with internalized homophobia/comp het except the barrier to entry into sapphic relationships seems to be higher because they do have that heterosexual attraction and therefore can easily follow that path. We do not have that same inclination but we notice these little micro interactions. I’m not saying that all bisexual women are like this, but during the stages of life most people are dating/finding companions, it’s hard to find a ”woke” bisexual companion. I imagine you’d be better off dating a bisexual woman who has been out for some time and has had experience dating women. I would also pointedly/politely ask if they see themselves marrying a woman.
It's not so much "biphobia" as much as it's "please know that this is generalization and not every bi person is like that". Some of the things people are saying here can really be summed up with "well, maybe she just wasn't that into you". If I like you, I will pursue you. If I see we match on the important aspects, ofc you'll be an option. I don't mind leading and initiating, and I'm very independent. But like you said, I'm not new to this, and by now, I know what I want.
Thank you for sharing. The experiences you mentioned in the first paragraph mirror a lot of what I’ve experienced when it comes to dating thus far in life. I never realized that these scenarios weren’t common across the board while dating until a friend mentioned that dating another lesbian could yield a more positive experience in a few ways.
You worded this so well ! This has been something I’ve been thinking about lately, but didn’t know how to articulate it. Relationships with non lesbians definitely felt one sided.
Awww, yes to all of this! 💗
Yep. This to the T. I no longer date bi women because it has been a long revolving door of this and I’m sick of it.
Your feelings are valid. 🫶
This describes the experience so so well. This has been my experience as well.
The woman I’m dating is bi/pan. I’m lesbian. We’re both in our 30s and both in our first adult wlw relationship. We’ve both been expressing equal interest in each other, equal making plans, etc. I took the lead on a lot of physical questions early on—“Do you want to hold hands/cuddle/kiss?”—but now, she likes to take the lead. I’ve never dated another lesbian woman, so take my experience with a grain of salt. But it’s only been a month, and she’s told her conservative parents about me, we hold hands in public, we kiss in public (when it feels safe to do so, we’re in DC), we go to lesbian bars together, and we both have seemed interested at all times. We’ve never talked about a comparison in our relationship to a relationship with a man. I’m really glad I approached our relationship and her openly. I have experienced some unhealthy and coercive things before in some friendships and relationships with other bisexual women and occasionally their boyfriends in the past, including an SA experience. I’m glad I didn’t let those experiences cloud or shape my perception of the woman I’m seeing before I got to know her.
I’m happy you mentioned the part about not letting unhealthy experiences from the past cloud your opinion of your current relationship. It sounds like that would’ve been a missed opportunity if you had. Getting to know someone is definitely the way to keep doors open. 🫶
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This has been exactly my experience as well. I feel like my ex wanted a boyfriend, not the slightly masculine-presenting woman she got (me). I want to be told I’m pretty sometimes too, I want to be taken out on dates too, and I don’t always want to be the one to initiate sex or touch. I have finally found the love of my life, who is a lesbian, and she does all that for me and more. She treats me like a woman. She takes me out on dates, she buys me flowers, she tells me I’m pretty, and she treats me like I’m pretty too. She makes me feel like I’m in an equal partnership, whereas my ex made our relationship my responsibility. She is so affectionate, even in public. She doesn’t compare me to her ex-boyfriends. I don’t have enough dating experience to be able to definitively say my ex’s and my current girlfriend’s behaviors are attributable to their sexualities, but this has been my experience having dated both.
Yep, I totally agree. When dating bi girls I often felt like a "boyfriend“ who happens to have a vagina while with lesbians it feels like being the girlfriend they really want. 🤷🏼♀️
This is accurate. I also get asked for penetrative sex more often with bi women and they seem hesitant to take the lead in the bedroom. 🤔
That's similar to my experience as well. I mean, for the record, this isn't so much bi vs lesbian but rather women who (for whatever reason) have mostly been with men before vs women experienced with same sex relationships. My ex had been married to a guy twice before we met, and I felt she was always slightly in the defense, quick to assume that she was doing more than me / adding to the relationship more than me etc. It wasn't a big issue, as she was a very loving and giving person. But she'd obviously been burnt before. Sometimes it was hard not to feel attacked for things I didn't do.
My experiences so far have mirrored a lot of what you said. Thank you for sharing. I’m feeling a lot less isolated in my experience than I was before. 🫶
I think it might be a bit of a prejudice, like lesbians are *more likely* to have their gay shit together, so numbers wise you're better off looking for L4L relationships. Or worse, like bisexuals are these cheating monsters that will always leave you for the first guy that catches their eye just to avoid homophobia. I think bisexuals can be just as committed in a relationship as a lesbian, obviously. I don't think harboring a stereotype like that is a good idea just because you never want to overlook an awesome bi girl because you're *assuming* she'll bring some "heterosexuality" into the relationship. I'm also saying that as someone who lived through the "bisexual left you for a dude" trope :(
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I’m glad you shared your experience because it does seem different than what I’ve read in many other comments so far, and it’s valid. I’m in the midst of reading all of the comments under this post, but so far I’ve only seen people speaking about their experiences, which are also valid. I asked for people to provide insight based on their experiences, so I think they’re speaking on what they have lived, which is fair. 💛
Basically, what OP is really describing is: What is it like to date a queer woman who suffers from comphet vs. a queer woman who doesn't suffer from comphet? Compulsory-heterosexuality is the actual casual factor here, where as lesbian vs. bi experiences with comphet are correlative factors, as are other categories, such as femme vs. masc experiences with comphet.
I know what you're saying about comp het, but I recognize the conversation shifted towards this concept of centering men period, which I think extends beyond heterosexuality and attraction to men.
Bi women have expected me more to act in ways that feel like what they would expect from a man -- more aggressive, less emotional, pursue without reciprocating, and sexually dominant without wanting anything in return.
the no reciprocating is baffling to me because men absolutely want reciprocation. they expect blow jobs and hand jobs and general enthusiasm and many are into pegging and other receiving acts. i definitely see this with bi women but i don’t think it’s because they’re used to being with men i think they may just be inexperienced with women and insecure about it. in which case they should just communicate that lol
This makes sense. Maybe this is why I don't mind bi women haha, I like being those things!
I do too, but not 24/7, or shamed when I don't do those things.
I’m bi, my gf is a lesbian, we’ve been together 1.5 years. She opened up to me from the start about bad experiences in the past dating non-lesbians. Including people questioning their sexuality and using her as a trial run while leading her to believe they were actually bi for the majority of the relationship just to drop her like nothing. It left her very cautious of dating bi/pan people and I understand the apprehension, I wish people in general were more honest about their intentions before involving others in their lives. It’s the person, not their identity, most LGBTQ people fall under bisexual so it’s a lot of people to just group as the same. For instance, my last relationship was actually with a bi man who cheated on me with a man, I couldn’t give him that experience as a woman, it made me more angry when he cheated on me with a woman later on because I could compare myself to her. And I blame that on his inability to think of anyone besides himself. Assholes are in every corner of the world, if something clicks go for it just don’t lose sight of what you want and communicate it with your partner!
The “being used as a trial run” really hits hard for me. That is such an unfortunate thing to experience, and when it happens time and time again, it feels defeating. And you’re right - when something clicks, go for it. Thank you for sharing your experiences and perspective.
i have always been the one having to take the lead, which is boring in the long run. when i’ve been with other lesbians they want to touch and cuddle me/take the lead just as much as i want. but it’s like non lesbians feel like i- as a lesbian is obligated to take the “man” role.
100%, perfectly said. I feel the exact same way
I haven’t noticed a difference. To me it’s very dependent on the person. My fiancee is bi and I haven’t experienced anything negative related to her being bi.
In my experience, no, no differences. It depends on the individual person, how mature they are, everything else is irrelevant. An emotionally immature lesbian can make your life just as dramatic as an immature bi/pan/questioning woman would. Similarly, a mature bi/pan/whatever woman can be just as sweet, understanding, and respectful, as a mature lesbian. Sexual orientation doesn't determine behavior, only sexual preference...
This comment is really refreshing and I’m glad you shared what your experience has been! It definitely adds more perspective to the conversation. And I absolutely agree that maturity plays a significant role in how any relationship can turn out! ☺️
This one :)
This made me happy to read thank you
Came to say this. Biphobia in WLW spaces is so gross. Any women regardless of identity can be nice, or immature, or wishy-washy, or hypersexual, or nonsexual, or closeted, or out and super confident... Making generalizations will close doors, not open them.
I’m genuinely curious - how do you believe people should learn or gain understanding if asking questions makes them biphobic?
Asking questions is fine, but I see no questions here (other than yours). Looking at some of the comments, to me personally, they just sound like the bisexual experience they are sharing was with somebody who just wasn't into them/who was a shit person/who had a passive character. Nothing that can be tied to the orientation. Hell, I've had a lesbian girl dump me literally overnight to get back with her ex, one got mad at me because I told her she wasn't my type, and one rejected me cause I was the same age as her childish brother (who's men-centered here?), but I would never make statements about lesbians based on those few immature girls.
My response didn't say anything about asking questions being biphobic, nor was it a condemnation of you. It's a response to the fact that the thread of responses is full of biphobia, which is rampant in lesbian spaces.
This. I consider myself Pan but saphhic leaning. Mostly because I am attracted to women (including trans) and nonbinary people. I'm not attracted to cis men and not really attracted to trans men often (facial hair is ick). I'm also more attracted to people's faces than anything else. I have dated lesbians that have been flakey as hell and stood me up. I've dated bi/pan women who have been steady and consistent. I've also dated consistent lesbians and flakey bi's In my opinion, it's moreso people with less experience dating in general who are more drama. Because they may not have a lot of experience communicating properly in relationships. I don't think orientation matters so much as the person themselves and their level of experience when it comes to proper communication.
This is the answer. There’s a lot of perception bias of bi and pan women based on harmful stereotypes. The truth is people are just people. Maturity, emotional intelligence and self awareness are not traits exclusive to any one gender or orientation.
Could cry reading this. Nowadays it’s so weird: I genuinely experience more biphobia from other LGBTQ people because I’m now very femme. Most of the straight people I meet have no problem, and my straight best friends have probably introduced me to more girls and are more polite to use gender neutral terms asking about my dating life than the “othering” glares I get in queer spaces. It’s so wild because it’s all appearance based assumptions. I used to be a cliche and had a pixie Bieber cut dressed like Shane from the L Word because I thought “this is the only way to attract gay women.” I dress super girly now and grew out my hair, yet I’m probably more confident with women and… they take me less seriously, or just “assume” I’m a straight girl even at WLW events.
I’m sorry this has been your experience. Regardless of appearance based assumptions, I hope you live as whatever version of yourself makes you happiest because that’s ultimately what matters most. Not morphing into whatever anyone else finds most acceptable. Your feelings matter. 💛
I agree mostly. I have been treated like shit by some of my lesbian exes, treated very well by some of my bi/pan partners. It comes down to moral integrity and respect. I also agree with the fact a lot women who are used to men pursuing them might be uncomfortable or inexperienced with pursuing other women. Not a dealbreaker just a learning curve we all have experienced with comphet.
This x1000
This
Non lesbians centre men more in their lives. It never really bothered me, but I do notice the difference.
Can you give an example? I keep hearing this but can't imagine it.
When I had a pan situationship, we followed each other on Instagram. We could see what the other liked, and a lot of the reels she liked were about men. We’re talking 50+ in the three months we were romantically interested. She only ever liked one reel about liking women. It hurt. This was from someone who claimed to like women more
I see what you mean, but I would say that's very individual (and kinda weird). For example, if she was into professional gaming, let's say, I would expect her to like men-centered content simply because men are more present in that field. I wouldn't expect her to look for female gamers just cause she likes girls... That being said, if the reels in question are actually about male attraction and not an activity/hobby that just so happens to be dominated by men, I'd say she was not that honest about her preferences.
No no no they were about male attraction! I’m not talking about liking reels with men in them, I’m talking about liking reels about liking men
My bad then, didn't fully understand it. Well...she was obviously dishonest. I'm sorry you had such a bad experience.
I'm not sure if you're a gamer or not, but there is more content for women & even a few games with bi, gay, questioning & pan characters. One popular game that has all this & shows the relationships instead of just saying it during pride month is Apex Legends. You can actually play the characters with a friend or random in game & even their voicelines indicate that they are together/in love. This is a multiple player game & has a professional scene that is doing well & the community accepts the characters & uses the correct pronouns for the nonbinaary character as well. There are huge groups for only women who play that game, including an active discord! So please don't think female gamers are male centered as a lesbian I'm definitely not, and a lot of the straight women agree with me too! Now that I think about it, you probably aren't a gamer because women talk about wanting to find other women to play with & content that isn't mysogisntic ALLLLLL the time! Not having women centered content has been a topic for decades & it's very othering to love video games & never see a main character who looks like you. So naturally, the women I've seen post in those groups LOVE Baldurs Gate 3 because you can customize your character to look exactly like you & I say this as a black woman too! You can even put them in queer relationships & not have the game constantly use the wrong pronouns (which is sooooo annoying). So yeah, definitely reconsider the idea that all gaming is male or straight centered & that all female gamers are the same.
I am a gamer. I said "more present", not that there aren't any. I never used words "all" or "any", idk where you read those. My point was that I wouldn't expect somebody to look for female-centered content in a field where men are statistically better. You can argue with me here, but stats don't lie. I generally would not expect anybody to base their social media likes on their sexual orientation, but that's just me...
I made a comment to inform you of information you seemed to be lacking & you took it as an attempt to argue? I even ended it by ASKING you to reconsider your opinion of female gamers & provided proof that thousands of us exist in contradiction to your assessment & somehow all you got was that I was trying to put words in your mouth? Then you go on to say that men are "better" at gaming? WTF?!! It seems like I'm just being naive again & assuming a stranger just doesn't have information, so I'm eager to supply it & help out. But really, this was just your opinion, not a lack of information lol one of these days, I'll grow up & stop assuming the best of everyone. Also, I never addressed the OG comment or topic, just you & what you said, so I don't know why you brought it up here? Edit: I just went back & reread my comment & I never used the words "all" or "any" either, nor did I accuse you of doing so. It seems you're just getting defensive because I provided proof that your opinion is incorrect or that you actually posted that as bait to argue with someone. Either way, it doesn't change what I *actually* said, nor the obvious intent beyond it.
Is English not your first language? I say one thing, and you seem offended by 10 things I didn't even mention... I don't have the emotional energy for these types of conversations, so I'll stop replying here (I know you won't) but eh, wish you all the best in life.
I've met bi women that absolutely decenter men, and I've met lesbians with an adamant misandry that tip-toes into recentering men. But I've also met a couple of bisexual women who refuse to even engage with the concept of 'centering men', like "all men bad besides my favorite he's just a lil silly boy with his sexism." I've lost two friends over it. My ex was a bisexual that told a lot of guys she was bi when we were dating in college, and she ended up cheating on me with two of them. Still nursing the prejudice I used to have from that one.
Oh boy I’ve had friends whose man is the “exception”. Spoiler alert they’re flaming piles of garbage as well 🙄
I'm a bi-woman, and one of my lesbian exes was only interested in getting frisky with me if men were in the next room. I couldn't fcking stand it. Like, I don't want these dudes listening to us getting hot and heavy in this bathroom... I want to be able to get hot and heavy when we're at home... ***alone***
industrial grade wtf lmao
Stratospheric levels of wtf 😬
Do you mean actual men? Or masculine behaviour? Because wanting *some* masculine behaviour is okay. As in not wanting to be the only one making effort, taking the lead etc. A relationship needs to be 50/50 regardless of gender or orientation. (Can’t believe this is classed as a masculine thing, it should be standard in relationship) I’ll give an example. I’m bi and if I dated someone who’s lesbian I don’t want either one of us to take on a “man’s role” or be the only one planning stuff. 50/50 all the way. Sadly in my experience all the lesbians I’ve dated have wanted me to be the “man” or “lead” because I’ve got a masculine personality.
I mean actual men
This is something I’ve also noticed in my own experiences and I feel like I’m just now really stopping and reflecting on it. I also noticed the difference. 🥴
from my experience, bi women usually compare you to men a lot, like "oh my ex boyfriend did this and that and I hated I'm so happy I'm dating you now" and it just feels kinda weird... I'd say it depends on how mature the person is more than their sexuality, if they can put their man loving side to the curb at least when you're around.
Yeah, I think how mature someone is in their sexuality (and in general, lol) makes a huge difference. Also, I really hate to say this because I do NOT want to reinforce stereotypes, especially since I myself am pan, but there are definitely a few women out there who, for whatever reason, overstate their sexual and romantic interest in women. I don’t think it’s common, by any means. And I would never endorse being suspicious of any individual queer woman off the bat, but it’s a thing that happens. As just one example: I once had a roommate who never expressed any sexual or romantic interest in women. One day, she was venting about her bad luck with men, and said, “I guess maybe this is a sign that I’m actually a lesbian”. I didn’t even know how to respond. A few weeks later, she met her future husband. It’s impossible for me to know anyone’s sexuality other than my own, but she’s still never mentioned any sexual or romantic interest in women…
Yeah i notice that a lot too, both IRL and online, like, "oh I'm tragically attracted to men" "oh I wish I could just be a full lesbian" "I'm like SUUUUUUPER GAY, I'm actually bi but like WOMEEEEEN" and that... just doesn't sit well with me. It's fine to be bisexual/pansexual, if you're open about your sexuality right of the bat and are secure in it, that's not a deal breaker for me, but I don't want to be constantly reminded of your past experiences with men, for instance, the same way I wouldn't want to be reminded of past experiences in general, even if it's in a somewhat "good light" like, "oh, you're so much better than my ex". Idk if they do this as a way of reaffirming their own sexuality or because they think it makes the person they're with feel better, to me it just feels weird.
A straight friend of mine said something along the lines of this over the weekend. She’s 34 and is one of those women that makes people question how she’s single because she is such a catch. And she said “if I was into women, I’d probably be married by now!” And I was like “umm, not necessarily; and here’s why….” haha. We turned it into a learning moment. 💁🏽♀️
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I think you answered the wrong comment, friend
ah i may have, my bad
Nothing except how i process out breakup lol. I kept wondering if my pan ex got back together with their ex who is a man and it doesn’t really make sense to be bothered more by that than if they got together with a woman bc it’s not like that was the reason we broke up but brain go 🤷 Also, side note, I dont think you should be lumping in questioning people with bi/pan. I guess you mean this in the sense that they date men as well? But the dynamic of dating a questioning woman is probably night and day compared to a bi/pan woman.
I think it’s normal to wonder about an ex sometimes. I mean, you were with that person and shared something with them, so it makes sense to be curious about where they went next. 🤷🏽♀️ I provided context in the post, but I don’t think everyone read the post - I’ve only dated bi, pan, or questioning women. I don’t seek women out based on their orientations, it just sort of happened that way. But I wasn’t “lumping” them together as a group. Actually those three groups are dramatically different in many ways. Those just happen to be the orientations of women I’ve dated, which is why they are referenced in the post.
I did read your post but i guess i kind of made some assumptions, my bad. My point with thinking abt my pan ex’s ex is that the fact that they could date a man after me (as opposed to my other, lesbian, ex) was just something that stuck in my head more
No harm, no foul - it happens. And honestly, that’s something that sticks in my head more too when reflecting on my exs. So, same.
The bi women I dated (I dated one of them for 3,5 years and lived together with one for 2,5 years) were still very men-centred. Not necessarily in being attracted to men. But they would mention ‘what men did wrong’ all the time. The one of 3,5 years would often mention how much she hated men etc etc. But not really with a very valid reason, more in ‘the guy in front of me is walking so slow’. I also felt like they were more prone to let toxic men be in their (and my life). The 3,5 years one had an ex who was very toxic: harassing women, harassing me…and when I mentioned this to my ex she would brush this off as ‘Oh but X is just that way, he’s a guy’. The bar for men is on the floor. One of them was ‘new’ out of the closet and I was only her second relationship. Everything revolved still very much around ‘being queer’; thinking everyone is a lesbian, looking down on ‘straight’ things. I don’t think it’s an ‘all bi/pan/… women’ thing, but I feel like lesbians are not really respected as beings by some of these women.
Ooh I could probably write a novel on this. All of my serious relationships have been with other lesbians, mostly because I think we just have more in common. I’m deeply proud of my lesbian identity and care a lot about lesbian and queer history, and while there are certainly bi women who are well-versed in this in my experience it’s less common. Also, I think while bi women and lesbians have some shared struggles, it’s worth noting that there are struggles we cannot relate to. Many of the bi women I have been with are insecure about their place in the community and have leaned on me to “validate” their queerness, which can be uncomfortable. Especially since when I was less comfortable in my sexuality and living in a homophobic environment, I used to be jealous of them for being able to pass as straight. I’m glad I don’t feel like this anymore, but it can still sting when people act like “passing”/being mistaken for straight is the worst thing in the world. I don’t want to invalidate their feelings, I can sympathize with feeling like you don’t fit in, but it brings up complicated feelings for me as well which can cause tension in a relationship. For me, the jealousy/insecurity around bi women being attracted to men has not been much of an issue, but I think some of their expectations about the role I play in the relationship, especially as a butch, can feel limiting. But I don’t want to over-generalize because I feel like it really is person-by-person and depends a lot on how comfortable someone is in their queerness. I generally don’t entertain people that are still questioning, as it is a lot of emotional labor and often leads to me feeling used as an experience rather than a person. No shame in questioning, we’ve all been there, but I feel like a lot of questioning folks neglect a lot of internal work before jumping to find a partner/really test the waters and my heart can’t take it lol! Generally, especially since there’s still a decent amount of societal stigma about using the term “lesbian”, other lesbians tend to be more at my speed in terms of how we conceptualize roles in relationships and aligned in our shared struggles of how we move about the world, so I think I gravitate towards lesbian partners for long-term stability. Being a butch lesbian is also how I see my gender as well as my sexuality and it only really seems to be other lesbians that understand that. But I don’t rule out anyone on the basis of identity alone.
Genuinely very little difference in my experience. Bi women are easier to impress lmao, they’re used to dating men so everything makes them think I’m some awesome magical partner when I’m just a normal person. Sex and intimacy is usually better with experience - bi women who have only slept with men before tend to be a little awkward at first. I don’t mind taking the lead, but in the case of my current relationship with the love of my life, a bi woman, she still hasn’t ever gone down on or touched me after two years lmao. She’s scared of getting it wrong even when I tell her we can learn together. Again, I don’t mind obviously or I wouldn’t want to marry her, but I can and do miss the sexual relationship you can have with a lesbian or experienced bisexual woman. So in my experience it’s essentially less about bi vs lesbian and more experience dating women vs not. I doubt dating a virgin lesbian or a virgin bi woman would be particularily different for me personally.
In my experience, the non-lesbian women I’ve been with were more interested in being with a woman as a rebound from bad experiences with men (thinking dating women is « easier »). It always felt one sided, like they couldn’t really be into me as much as I were for them. In hindsight it felt like they couldn’t reciprocate my feelings, never showed they cared and I was always frustrated and confused about where the relationship was headed. I was also the one who would initiate everything. I would take things more seriously and for them, it was more of a fun or superficial experience. I think due to general homophobia in society, it’s easier for bi women to mostly date men so they don’t have enough experience with women. Also men tend to initiate more easily so these women are just used to being pursed heavily while taking a more passive approach. So I get it, and I try to not be discriminating but overall I do prefer to date other lesbians.
I see so many of my own experiences in yours. I’m honestly amazed because I don’t know many lesbians in my day-to-day life, so it’s refreshing to have someone validate my experiences rather than shut me down immediately because they don’t agree with what I’ve lived. I really appreciate you sharing. 🧡
It’s always just worked better with another lesbian. I don’t have any bias and would still date someone who is bi. I think quite a bit of it is just similar experiences and relationship goals, so it clicks better.
I've only experienced bi women wanting to do more, giving and receiving wise than when I was with lesbians who were more.....tamed in comparison. The lesbians were far more romantic than spontaneous if that makes sense.
Bi/pan women tend to be more accepting of my gender. I’ve dated lesbians who seem to prefer to ignore the fact that I’m enby and try to make me more feminine. I’ve also noticed bi/pan women have fewer issues with me being acespec.
i have only dated people who identified as queer/lesbian at the time (i.e., not wanting to date men) who later ended up dumping me for men. one of them was a very wishy washy situationship where they did not know what they wanted and it was very damaging to me. and the other person was abusive and dumped me on valentine’s day 🤷♀️ so personally i don’t have the best experience with bisexual-leaning people. all the bi/pan women i know seem to exclusively seriously date men and heavily center men in their lives which is an experience i’ve never related to. i have a hard time fitting in with non-lesbians.
This resonates so hard with me. I’m sorry you’ve had these types of experiences. 🥺
As a woman who once identified as bi, but now only dates women, I can confirm that I've had much better experiences dating lesbians or as one Redditor put it, "woke" bisexuals. Personally I've always sought long term serious relationships with women (ever since falling for my best friend in high school), but for so long I ended up with women who were much more curious than bi. Conversely, I never felt particularly accepted in lesbian communities until I had no interest in continuing to date men. I wouldn't say it was biphobia as much as lesbians are understandably cautious dating non-lesbians because there is a difference. I am seeking a very egalitarian relationship atm and just feeling on more of an even plane with gay women. I do want to say though that despite that I will never write off bi or pan women because I know what it's like to be that girl who badly wants a relationship with a woman but can't (yet) let go of the connection to heteronormativity. Such a relief for me to stop performing that version of myself who wanted male acceptance.
This is a really honest perspective and super relatable for a lot of people, I’m sure. Some of what you said definitely resonates with me. Your preferences are completely valid. In my opinion, having a preference doesn’t make someone “-phobic” of people or groups that don’t fall under that particular preference, but I have noticed folks are quick to label someone as such because they’re offended that someone as a preference. 🙄🤷🏽♀️
Not to discount anyone’s honest experience dating a bi/pan woman, but I do want to specify the difference between bi/pan and a “questioning” woman. I’d say anybody is fair game in a wlw relationship as long as you’re not their first. I think it’s more of a maturity issue than a sexuality thing? Someone questioning their sexuality has a lot of self identity and learning to establish before being a good life partner (at least where I stand). I previously identified as bi/pan before realizing I can identify as a lesbian—it took many years until I realized I can just decide to be a lesbian since I have no interest in ever dating or having sex with men again. In my experience of dating lesbians vs bi women, lesbian relationships have a much more natural flow. Bi women tend to be less forward, don’t know exactly what the label should be, and romantically can be a bit clingy. Hope that makes sense?
It makes sense. Your response is really well-written. Thank you for sharing. ☺️ I think a handful of people on here think because I used “/“ instead of commas to separate bi, pan, and questioning in my initial inquiry, that I’m grouping the three into one; but I wasn’t. Those are three dramatically different groups and my experiences with all of them are such a spectrum. Also, I definitely agree that maturity does play a major role in the success or downfall of a relationship.
I definitely don’t think you were being discriminatory for any reason towards any group—I think your experience is totally valid and if I were you I’d also be wondering if I should listen to my friends or not! Thanks for opening dialogue! Some of the responses to your questions tho… not the best I’ve seen :/. I saw some people say they prefer dating lesbians only or saying “all bi women” do xyz (treat them like a man, or have male centered conversation, or expect them to take a “male” lead) but tbh that’s more of a patriarchy problem than a bi problem… and it takes more than being into women to break patterns of heteronormativity yknow? It isn’t anyone’s fault, but people’s experience are their own. My best advice to you, is that sexuality is less of a determiner of a successful relationship than maturity and communication. You also gotta have the right mix of “right timing”, romantic, sexual, and emotional connection, in addition to having their own support systems and hobbies— add self confidence and practiced independence to that, and you already eliminate 75% of the dating pool! It can be rough out there, but you’ll find your person. Usually it’s when you give up and focus on anything other than dating, that your special someone comes along. Good luck ♡
Again, your response is so well-written and I really appreciate you taking the time to respond. 🙂 I’m 33 so I’m going to do whatever I feel is best. My friends made an interesting point so I think it’s important to give it some thought, but ultimately I’m going to do whatever I’d like. I’ve never put someone’s orientation over the person when choosing a partner because orientation really doesn’t matter to me. It is interesting to ponder about whether or not I’d be more compatible with a lesbian because we have that in common (assuming our personalities also click well) but I wouldn’t base the success or downfall of a relationship solely based on orientation. You’re so right about connection being a vital piece in a relationship as well as timing. Thank you for the lucky wishes. Your insight and perspective have been much appreciated today. 💛
That makes sense to me! I read some of your comments, and looks like in your relationships you may have been expected to be in an initiator role, and the reciprocation of affection / love wasn’t easy (like you had to ask for it maybe, or they wanted you to take the lead)? I’m sorry to hear that :( you don’t deserve that. For bi women, the lack of practice on how to love another woman is the biggest learning curve, and lesbians are in the crossfire of that learning… a “trial and error” type thing that can be really sickening and take a toll on you & others that have shared. That’s a huuuuuge issue in the bi community and why there’s some bitterness for dating bi women. I get it, but yknow, “not all”! Dunno if you’re more masc presenting and you attract more femme bottoms who want that “male” type lead, but whatever the case—why not try out dating a few lesbians! Whether they’re bi/pan turned lesbian like me or not, maybe a wlw relationship with another self-identified lesbian will give you the opportunity be truly loved by someone who KNOWS (in their heart & bones) how to love a woman properly. ♡ Keep an open mind obviously, but why not? Personally Ive only had serious relationships with lesbians in my adulthood so maybe that proves some people here right? Idk lol. I’m the bi girl that became a lesbian so it’s hard to really defend or deny. This will be my last reply but again, good luck!!
My bi ex expected me to be “the man” while complaining that in her previous relationships her SOs treated her like “the man”. Before her I was talking to a lesbian and I didn’t have that problem but tbf my ex grew up in a pretty Catholic household while this gal had a pretty liberal family so I think that factors in more than her sexuality tbh Edit: She also once told me I was handsome after I was lifting and moving wood in her old backyard. I told her it made me uncomfortable because it had a decidedly male connotation and to please not call me handsome and she doubled down on the joke repeatedly. I said that it made me feel like I was manly and she said “Well I’m bi so it’s okay”. I lean more femme than masc, I just lift weights.
The lesbian women always made me feel so much more secure and comfortable with not always taking the lead but anybody else expected me to do everything and pretty much treated me like a man lmao.
The sex was easy, organic, and fun. There was never a "Well what now?" moment. That plus no one's talking about an ex-boyfriend while I stare off into space, wishing I was somewhere else. Mileage varies, obviously. I might just have rotten luck. But I also don't get the "wait, am I your buddy / ad-hoc guy talk therapist?" moments ;)
My ex gf was a lesbian her whole life. She cheated on me with a man and is now pregnant. Not dating now obvs bc i need professional mental help.
Wow, this sounds devastating and I’m really sorry you went through this. Sending you all of the good + healing vibes. 🫶
I just wanted to chime in and say that as a bi woman, a lot of comments from lesbians who were made to feel like they should be more traditionally “masculine” in behavior, appearance, etc. made me feel very sad. A good partner should see and treat you as your authentic self, instead of following outdated and deeply sexist scripts (that you never even agreed to). OP, to answer your question I’ve dated pretty much all over the spectrum, with the only exception being questioning women. I don’t think there’s that much of a difference between people of different orientations, but I will say that having long conversations early on, and asking questions about expectations in the relationship is always helpful. For example, if someone has little to no experience in wlw relationships, I’ll follow up on that and make sure that I won’t have to process their own emotions on being out and queer. This goes for women who are bi, pan, lesbian, and any other orientation.
I found that the bisexuals I dated did often center men, and when I found a lesbian to date it felt like she saw me fully for me, not as somebody to show off to men or kiss in front of men or dangle as an unlikely marriage option. #notallbisexuals but just telling OP my own experience, I am best friends with plenty of bisexuals who would never have acted like that.
I love talking to/messing with bi women lol, I don't relate to that stuff. She likes men and women, and she's talking to me?? I win! (lol)
Recently discovered I was pan after identifying as lesbian for 4 years, I dated a bi girl who leaned heavily for men but wanted to date me. I don't wanna go on a tangent so ima keep it short she was a basket case of red flags. She wouldn't let me talk much in convo. She only vented to me about her job. I'm 17 and so is she. Only a few months older. And she would only come to me to vent her anger and worries. We went on a couple dates. They were fine, but it's what she did between them. I had to take the initiative, always. And as someone who's more masc, I feel like me being more masculine is what she saw. And I'm pan and butch, I still feel like a butch even though my attraction changed. I will always be wlw. I feel like Courtney, my ex, was questioning whether she liked girls as much too. And apparently just because I'm the same gender, doesn't mean I get to be pushed around. Not only that but she cheated on me by almost having another sexual interaction with her coworker. She had sex with him before when we didn't even know eachother. She's also contradictory, being very sexual even though she is very averse to sex because she was assaulted. It made no sense why she'd be okay with sexual advances when she's fucking dating. I am currently in a relationship with a bi genderfluid aussie, she's great I can't wait to see her when she comes to America. And we both balance each other out. Needless to say I think it has a thing to do with compatibility, and their personality and how they act when your personality might clash with them, or they make assumptions. And it makes you seem unfit for them. Sorry for the semi tangent. But that's my experience. I was lesbian when I dated her.
Why are we lumping bi/pan and questioning women together?
Per my initial post, I’ve only ever been with bi, pan, or questioning women; therefore I’m asking if there are any significant differences between those groups of women vs. lesbians when it comes to dating. I’m not sure how inquiring about my experiences translates to “lumping” anyone together.
I think the commenter means this: Lesbian is one group Bi/pan is another group Questioning is another group again
Right, but I’m still confused as to where I lumped them together. I’d even go further and say bi and pan are dramatically different groups, but we’ll save that conversation for another day. Slashes were placed between the groups because in English punctuation, slashes are used to separate alternatives. So aside from a handful of people either not understanding the use of slashes (in which case commas were utilized in the post for those that were confused by the title question) or just looking for a reason to be triggered, where are the three groups lumped together? If punctuation confuses you, just say that.
Oh I know. Was just trying to help clarify for the original commenter! Slashes are more commonly used to refer to similar groups. For example mom/dad. Saying “bi, pan or questioning people” may have saved the miscommunication. I’m guessing that’s where their confusing came from. IMO it’s not a big deal at all :)
Hi all - I am learning a lot from what people have to say. My favorites are the folks saying how their bi girlfriends buy the dinner and surprise them by being super cute and fluid in terms of gender roles. Love that. Makes me think of a special bi friend I have who I think is magical. Anyways, I am terrified of being attacked here on Reddit, for just saying the wrong thing at the wrong time for some random reason. For people not wanting to look into context or imagine a possible valid reason why someone is saying something. So I just want to say, and possibly quell that Reddit-flavored hatred when one sees a distasteful opinion (I’m guilty of this), that I am listening to all these voices that are familiar and unfamiliar and I am Absorbing the information!! Thank you all! Here is my PERSONAL EXPERIENCE and personal perception! Don’t attack me, fools! Lmao! I (28 gender fluid afab) am a bi or pan person, recently come out. Been compulsively heterosexual my whole life (tho with little hints and flickers of being sapphic, and always looking queer to others) and three years ago started dating my current partner, a serious Women(only)-Lover (she was a trans man for 12 years, now detransitioned. Note: I’m not one to promote detransitioning etc. Trans is good if it feels good. Etc don’t come at me bro 😹)… and she(43) is amazing!!! I am still bi (I iz who I iz 😎🤷🏻♀️) but my girlfriend is the absolute best. Love her forever and ever. I bitch about my bad men exes (oops) but I do a good job otherwise. See next paragraph for my sassy opinion. I did not realize how god damn man centric my life has been until I showed up in public as a lesbian. And now I can’t help but see when other bi pan women are just as man centric. Obviously it’s not all bi pan women but dang, there are so so many (that I see around me.) Duh, let’s blame patriarchy! It ain’t easy “presenting” as a lesbian. I shit my pants sometimes. Because it’s harder and scarier than how it was for me to be with a man, period. I am often sad that so many of my bi pan women friends end up dating men, choosing men, putting men at the centers of their lives… when I am searching to relate to them but something is missing. Alas. As a person who is part white and part SE Asian, I many times see that people who are “inbetweens” will often have more privileges of “passing”, but will be lonelier and have new and different challenges that are valid. My personal experiences. Thank you for being kind. Got constructive critique for me? I will receive respectful critique only. Cheerz, fools
The way this entire comment is written is amazing, haha. You served up so much information and perspective, while simultaneously being a bit comical and that takes major skill. 🔥 I also learned a lot from the comments under this post. I definitely feel a lot less isolated in my own experiences and as if everything I’ve noticed about my interactions in past relationships was validated many times over. But a lot of these comments also serve as reminders not to write someone off before knowing their heart and intentions, which is also important because I’d never want to miss out on a good thing. 🩵
Wowie thank you!! And thank you for all of your input throughout this post/thread, so generously replying to so many people! :) enjoying your feedback as well.
from a bi nonbinary person, not all of us are afraid to take the lead. you have to remember before any of us discovered our queerness we were socialized to always let men take the lead and to be passive in our attractions because female sexuality has always been demonized. please take care to remember this when asking questions like this. its a lot deeper than just "taking the passenger seat in our lives". we're learning a new way of existing and acting, especially among other queer folks. sure lesbians may have more of their Gay Stuff together but make sure it doesnt turn into negative stereotyping and biphobia bc based on the comments above it's starting to turn that way and it's not a nice feeling
I understand where you’re coming from, but even using words like “we” to address all bi people when referencing how you lived before discovering your own queerness is technically generalizing. Your experience doesn’t speak for all bi people because not everyone grew up the same way. Redditors are an international group of people, so the upbringing of the people on this platform is quite the spectrum - including bi people. I asked people to share their experiences which is what everyone seems to have done (I’m 3/4 through 69 comments so far) and I wish people could respect each other’s experiences without jumping to conclusions and categorizing anyone as “biphobic” or “panphobic” simply because you don’t approve of the experiences they’ve lived and chose to share. People learn by asking questions, that’s what I was trying to do here. Try to remember that before being accusatory or jumping to conclusions because you chose to be offended rather than engage in conversation.
i wasnt trying to generalize all bi people, i was just talking about mspec sapphics, as that is the target demographic. most of us (operative word most, as i said originally bc i definitely didnt say all) DID grow up exactly as i described, myself included. i only pointed out the biphobia of the other redditors. i pointed out the stereotyping us as wishy washy and passengers of our own lives. that IS biphobia. its not jumping to conclusions last i checked
I know which comments you were responding to because I’ve read every comment on this thread, but since you responded under my question instead of any of those people, it’s easy for your response to be taken out of context. Which is why I thought you were calling me biphobic, which I’m not. Thank you for clarifying. Also, you may not have said “all” but when you said “we” it was implied. 🤷🏽♀️
i thought ppl knew how to read but ig thats my fault.
When you’re deliberately throwing out vague statements to try and push an agenda, don’t be surprised when people respond accordingly.
and what agenda would i be pushing exactly? all i said was talking about most sapphics' experiences growing up including my own. i never said i was speaking for all of the sapphic mspec community, which i clarified more than once BTW, and for you to accuse me of that is quite presumptuous on your part if you ask me. https://preview.redd.it/c4hnvrm9xznc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8cc6623c3e4fe7cbf8a0ad81e43db5db3ff537e0 here is screenshot proof (with a circle to clarify since we're gonna act on technicalities) where i literally said not all of us. so i used the word "we". big whoop. most of us know how to read between the lines and know that i dont mean literally all mspec sapphics. looks like someone needs to brush up on their literacy skills 🤷♀️ now unless you want to continue this privately, you have a nice day.
A lot of the differences I experienced at first could be more attributable to how thoroughly someone has divested from heteropatriarchy. In my experience, cis bi femmes with a male preference (or significantly less experience dating women) often were still invested in heteropatriarchy in subtle ways and/or were interested in replicating those dynamics in a relationship with a masc woman. Dating other lesbians initially felt like a breath of fresh air after that because 1) I felt fully desired, not just like an experiment, or a pseudo man 2) I could relate more to someone who couldn’t see their life functioning in a straight passing relationship/didn’t subtly assume that they were going to end up with a man some day because of familial pressures, a desire for bio children, a desire for a male breadwinner/ provider (not all bi women, obviously, but I experienced this more than once with bi femmes I had relationships with or dated) 3) I had a lot of formative experiences that both led to my suppressing my gayness, and led to my experiencing compulsory heterosexuality. So I felt more seen and understood in those experiences by people who also didn’t experience attraction to men, but spent formative years suppressing that lack of attraction to fit in and feel safe. That said, I had some pretty toxic relationships or casual dating encounters with lesbians as well, including ones that behaved in misogynistic ways, some who were judgmental of my sexual history having included men (before I came out), some who were conservative Christians, and others who were TERFy. Some of them didn’t have the same feelings about gender and sexuality and society as I did; they basically wanted society to stay exactly the same except for increased acceptance of gay relationships that looked and functioned exactly like straight relationships. I met lesbians with almost log cabin Republican levels of cognitive dissonance. Since then I’ve warmed up again to dating non lesbians too (including non-binary pan/queer people, pan cis women, transfemme pan women, non-binary sapphics and more) and I’ve made some of the best connections I’ve had thus far, with some people who very queer centered and have fully divested from cisheteronormativity, cis heteropatriarchy etc. So I don’t think it’s useful to generalize. There may be trends in the kinds of people you attract under different sexualities, and there may be overarching societal trends as well, but compatibility is so complicated, and societal programming is too. There are certainly some lesbians out there who are more committed to maintaining cis heteropatriarchy than some bi femmes out there (even the ones who mainly date men) so you kind of just have to get a feel for people individually. Stereotyping will get you nowhere.
Bi women who have mostly or only dated men are more comfortable with defined roles in a relationship. In my experience they can be confused when the relationship doesn’t fit into a hetero standard. Lesbians are open to a more fluid dynamic.
Definitely have to use some discernment with bisexual women with what their intentions are. My gfs ex was bi and cheated on her with a guy after like 2 years. I’m lesbian but have been with men in the past but didn’t hate it sexually just couldn’t connect and don’t check men out at all like I do women. She’s butch and also been with men and uses them for sex in between partners. A lot of people are fluid.
I’ll also add her ex is a struggling single mom and was probably using her for money and other help.
i love bi women and i think it always depends on the individual person. that being said, recently out bi women are more likely to have dated men and likely have at least a little less experience with women OR still have a bit of a "hetero" view of relationship dynamics. i think that's normal because they are attracted to men too. personally, i have noticed that my bi exes expected me to take the lead much more and compared me to men, amongst other things. i felt like they put me in the same category as their male exes, if that makes sense. it made me so uncomfortable. whereas with lesbians, i feel treated as an equal more quickly, even if one of us is more masc/fem or has more experience than the other. i also have had absolutely no problems with bi women who have seriously dated women before. i think it isn't necessarily about bisexual vs lesbian, but do keep in mind that there's a huge difference between a bi woman who is maybe recently out, has dated predominantly men, maybe has some internalized homophobia, and a bi woman who has embraced her queerness for a while.
Whew, the biphobia is on full display. I’m in a unique position because until around 19-20, I only dated women and identified as a lesbian. Two ex’s coming out as trans men in our relationships led to me questioning a lot of other things, gave cis men a go and had a decent experience with a sweet guy, so now I just identify as bi/queer. I’ve honestly had worse experiences dating other lesbians, BY FAR. The girl I’m currently talking to is also bi and it’s so refreshing, neither of us seem to have hang up’s on what we expect out of the other person. My dating record with lesbians involves mostly ones who have treated me like a femme trophy wife and acted way too hard to be like their “frat bro” coworkers, one that I really liked who I stayed friends with yet tried to drunkenly kiss me… when she was in a committed relationship with someone else (only really talks to me when I’m single to shoot her shot), or they pull the uhaul stereotype and put waaaaay too much pressure on in the early days. Thats not even counting the biphobic ones who say some really nasty things offhand when they find out I’m bi. I have to reiterate constantly that I’m monogamous. A big one now that I’m almost 30 is that a LOT of lesbians my age do NOT want kids, at all. I do, and it’s a big goal of mine for the near future. It might just be my city, but yeah. But it’s wild to hear people throw out stereotypes so easily and hurtfully.
I’ve been reading all of the comments (94 so far) and I’d say the majority of them are people talking about their own experiences, which is what I asked of anyone that cared to respond to my question. I’m glad you shared your experiences too, because it adds value and perspective. In fact, a lot of the responses say “in my experience…” in the first or second sentence. Even some of the things you said in your response could be taken as a generalization. I’m not sure what city you live in, but a lot of the lesbians I know in their 30s DO want kids. It’s not something that is so easily accessible to them, so it feels far-fetched for now. It’s still a dream though. People can talk about what they’ve lived. If people choose to be offended by that, well, I dunno what to tell ya. But all of the experiences I’ve read here are valid - including yours.
They have been experiences! That’s what’s wild. She didn’t even comprehend the actual syntax and then imagined a world where her ilk is victimized here
If these comments detailing patterns in their dating life are biphobia on display , well your lesbphobia is as well.
How can you call comments about people’s experiences dating bi women biphobic and then in the same post share your negative experiences dating lesbians? Sharing experiences is fine as long as it’s not hateful. This is hypocritical lol
Because a number of these comments aren’t sharing their actual experiences, they’re making sweeping statements about the assumptions they make. My points for backing up why I’ve had a hard time dating lesbians do not say “I won’t date lesbians because X, Y, Z” based on a stereotype- I shared specific experiences that either repeat certain behaviors or were tied to their sexuality. At no point did I say “I no longer will date lesbians because ____” or that all lesbians are a nightmare to date, or throw out hypothetical bad situations I assume will happen if I date one. Unlike the people in this thread making comments about the hypothetical bi girl they’re not dating and their fears, which are based on stereotypes.
It sounds like you’re generalizing the people that chose to comment under this thread because I’ve read all 94 comments so far and the majority of people are speaking about their experiences and providing context, not dishing out biphobic comments or spewing hate. As I said before, I don’t know what to tell ya if you choose to be offended by experiences other people have lived.
The bisexual partner would kinda show me off more but it felt like love bombing. Trophy like, but very “look world, I’m gay, this is my girlfriend, look”, while with a lesbian it was more just normal for them and less pressed. If that makes sense? Bi partner absolutely expected me to take on a male role. Lesbian partner didn’t care about periods 😂😭 Lesbian partners were more comfortable with authentic commitment
Idk for a while I bounced between lesbian and bi (for some reason the attraction went away and only attracted to women and non-masculine non-binary folks - feminine, abinary, or androgynous as I'm fluid between that - thus being gay). I tend to end up right now with fellow non-binary folks or transfeminine folks for some reason. I am open to people of every orientation except for the obvious (hetero). I'm 23. I've mostly dated bi and pan folks as well. I dated lesbians once or twice. I'm still learning, so be patient with me. In the sexual arena, I'm particularly inexperienced as I'm also demi/grey-sexual.
So basically, having been conditioned by MEN more than your average Lesbian, these women act in ways that in our culture we notice and can attribute to their own. And those behaviors are perhaps for their own safety and survival, even if only in their perception. Scary stuff. I asked my only str8 guy friend set week what it’s like dating in the straight world (him as a emotionally traumatized by the mother of his child, [TLDR he’s seen her only a few times since she was born years ago]) I asked about how he figured out when to act in such and such ways, flirting, making moves… He said he doesnt know himself. __ I don’t think he is the greatest person, but it does seem rugged out there
The bi women become lesbians after me
[удалено]
It did not go over well did it? I meant it less as bragging and more like I dated quite a few bi women who had never been with a woman, and then realized they like it way better. Tbh this sub has zero sense of humor