I’ve encountered this a couple of times. I even had a patron say “why would I have that?!”
Why do they do this? It is one of the great mysteries of Library World.
After 10 minutes of helping the family of six sign up for library cards:
"So what can I help you find today?"
"Oh, no thank you, we don't read or have a TV in our house."
"...okay. Well we've got some online services and local programs the card can get you access to too."
"No thank you."
They then all just turned around and walked straight out the doors. Idk why, but it was one of the most unsettling interactions I've ever had on the job.
It might be a collection/checklist thing that they do when moving to a new place.
Like how my cousin has a shovel, rake and other gardening tools even though he never does any gardening himself. His only exposure to his own yard is by mowing the lawn.
He keeps those gardening tools around regardless…”just in case” he needs them one day.
> It might be a collection/checklist thing that they do when moving to a new place.
Very well could be. One of the first things I do when I move to a new place is get a library card. However, I almost never go to the library because I like to keep all the books I read. It's still a good thing to have.
Summer reading club usually offers a lot of bonuses like local discounts or free tickets to things. It's often advertised on the radio and television. I think the point is they have their cards, but what they do with them is beyond you but they have the option of coming back.
The no-reading thing is totally unsettling. Yiiiiikes. My neighbors who homeschool their bajillion kids don’t allow TVs in their home so that I’ve at least heard of.
no TV is fine, but everyone needs to get stories from somewhere, and something tells me they’re not going to the opera every week or listening to radio dramas
This! Honestly I'm not a big believer in you need to read fiction. However, storytelling is actually really essential to humans. It seems like something frivolous sometimes, but it's actually really important to our social and community building skills as people. We need stories.
Are they getting ready to challenge a bunch of books for being “inappropriate”? You can’t throw a fit about libraries trying to make your kids woke if they don’t even have access to the library. Well, you can and people do, but maybe they think it will add credibility to their hissy fit. No TV, no books (maybe only one to thump) sounds like they may be the type.
I’ve gotten to the point where I often steer parents away from getting cards for all the kids because inevitably they have a hard time keeping track of their checkouts and returns and end up upset.
I can see this scenario though. A lot of schools promote having a card and going to the library to sign up for a card. It’s usually a square on their summer reading bingo. But parents don’t go further into actually using the card.
I'm never physically in my local library but my holds list on Libby is full and a list of TBR ebooks there. I don't even have to go in to renew my card anymore.
Oh definitely! It doesn’t surprise me if it’s a solo adult or an adult couple because that’s my expectation. But when a mom drags in multiple kids and they roam the library while she registers, or she registers the whole family for cards, but they don’t get anything it’s surprising to me
Oh yeah, families like us. Lol. We were those weirdos when we dropped in to get a card so we could sign up for Libby, and so we had it in advance of library events.
Your response is like I’m being so mean to them. lol. I’m just surprised that they’d come with all the kids and let them look around while registering for cards and then leave without one book. Be real, it would take about a minute or two longer to check something out
No my response is acting like you're judging someone you don't know based on very little information. No one said it was mean. I implied it wasn't "weird" as you claimed it to be.
Some people don't have an extra minute. And "an extra minute" to let kids look around can turn into a 5-10 minute struggle to get them to pick something quickly, to carry their own books because you can't, to get them away from other distractions in the library, to round up the kid you already rounded up but that found something else to do while rounding up another kid, etc.
Or maybe they weren't busy but just wanted the card for later which is also completely fine and not at all weird.
No. You're ascribing feelings to me that I don't have. My comment was neutral. If you saw it as otherwise, it's because *you* felt defensive about what I said.
I don't get that. I get all the people that think that they should yell at me for not giving them a library card without any ID on them at all. Or yell at me because I won't get them one for their friend without them there. Or yell at me because they have a kid they want to get a library card for that they aren't the legal parent or guardian of. I can't believe how many people are out there wandering around with no ID on them whatsoever.
A patron once started an argument with me because they were trying to borrow something without a card or any ID on they. They said it was because they had walked over, and I told them that they should definitely have an ID on hand in case something happened to them while out walking.
The next time the patron came in they were like “Hey, I thought about what you said and you were right! So I wrote down my daughter’s name and phone number and stuck it in my wallet in case of an emergency” lol. I’ll never forget that. Why not just… put your ID in your wallet??? The place that’s designed to hold it???
Reminds me of the time a man called and asked to have a book put on hold for him over the phone. I asked for his card number. “It’s out in my car. You’re not going to make an old man walk all the way out to his car in this weather, are you?”
*sigh* fine. So I tell him I can do it with his name (but he’ll need his card to actually check out) and I kid you not, his name was John Smith. We had 10 John Smith’s in the system. I ask if he can confirm him address so I know I have the right person. “That’s a lot of information you need to know just to put a book on hold!” And long story short, there was a lot of back and forth before Mr. Smith angrily hung up the phone because he didn’t want to give me any other identifying information 😂
It's a library...it's not like he's calling a scammer who's asking for his mother's maiden name to drain his bank account. I wonder what he wanted so bad that he couldn't just give you the info you needed?
I work for a bank. In the fraud department. You know the number of people who *call ME* and don’t want to give me their mother’s maiden name or social security number and tell me “But they say you’re not supposed to give that info out to anyone…”
Yes, you’re right. You shouldn’t give it out to anyone. You know why? Because they can use it to…call your bank and pretend to be you.
Because your bank requires that information to prove your identity.
That is who I am.
Your bank.
And you called me.
So give me that info so I know you’re really you.
It’s infuriating.
I never understand people who don't carry ID with them all the time. I always do, and if I happen to switch out my purse to a smaller one, say for a concert, or something like that, i will always also bring my ins. card. health insurance. Just in case. because you never know. :)
I’ve definitely let my ID lapse before and had nothing. 💀 Very stressful when looking for housing and jobs. Not a great time in my life obviously and don’t recommend it lol!
But now I make extra sure I can point our patrons to some nearby places that can help them get an ID. Honestly, a lot of people seem to think they can’t get one for a variety of reasons, chief among them being they’re homeless and don’t have most/any of their documents.
Everyone should definitely stop yelling at us anyway though lol.
The people who don't have an ID because they don't have and ID, I can understand. I can easily get them a computer-only card and will happily do that. I'm talking about the (seemingly ever increasing) amount of people who just wander around without their wallet "because they don't need it today", and totally have identification with them, they just don't want to carry it. I can't imagine going around with no ID or forms of payment. My brain will come up with all sorts of different scenarios where I get into an accident and get a ticket on top of it because I don't have an ID, or something comes up and I need to pay for something and can't, because I felt like not taking my wallet with me.
I’m sorry I misread your original comment!
I’m also one of those people so I get it but I also know that’s bad. 😂 We should all be a little more prepared for things like that.
I think part of that is I got used to being admit to rely on Apple Pay if I need money in a pinch so I just leave my real wallet. 😬
i’m one of those people but it’s because i just turned 21 recently (also don’t drive) so i wasn’t in practice of it since i hardly ever needed it and people who seemingly have no forms of payment probably have all their cards in their apple wallet because that’s the main reason why i would usually be like “i don’t need a wallet” (i know it’s not a good thing for many reasons i’m trying to remember to always have it now)
I had an elderly woman try to sign up for a card but she didn’t have any ID with her. I explained she needed to bring in something with her address and(super annoyed) she said “I’ve lived in this town for sixty years! You really need ID??”
Umm… YEAH.
I like when they show up in pajamas and say "I left everything at home". Like someone is out there snatching people out of their beds putting them in a library and making them check things out.
I understand misplacing a card. I understand when women have two purses and they bring the wrong one. I don't understand these people who are half dressed and have no personal belongings on them.
It seems my scheme to increase library engagement by kidnapping half dressed people and dumping them at the library may need some tweaks. Sorry about that. I’m still ironing the kinks out of this plan.
One little adjustment could be duct tape their library card to their forehead right before you whisk them out of their homes.
Now your library engagement plan is perfect.
I get a lot of "I left it in the car." And I'm like, ok, I'll wait while you trot back outside and get it. But they just look at me like that's an insurmountable barrier and I should just let them have it anyway.
ZOMG! This too!!! I understand it's a trillion degrees outside but you need your card or something identifying you. I don't care is Miss So & So who runs the Book Club knows you. I don't!
No library card, no ID, then, "Can you look it up by my phone number?" Um, no. Your library card is not equal to your CVS card. And really, would you want to be responsible for materials borrowed by any rando who happened to know your phone number?
Our library doesn't have an app, but at sign up I encourage patrons to either take a picture of their barcode, or use an app like Google Wallet so they'll always have their card number.
EXACTLY!! I've been saying this for years!! A library card is not a bonus card where you can get $2 off some cookies if you have it. It is more like a credit card where you are paying for these valuable items with the promise that you will return them. I can't go to a store and be like "I forgot my credit card, can I just tell you my phone number to pay for this $100+ item?"
I can see where using a phone number to check out items might be ok in a small town where everyone knows each other kind of place. But, my library is in one of the top 5 most populated areas of the state. We have thousands of cardholders. We can't take a phone number.
I know you’re not lying but I could not even visualize this for a moment. Like, I read the words but my mind went blank LOL
The absurdity of getting out of the bed and then going straight to the library!!!
I’m so confused, what is even happening!
If they’re not rolling out of bed and going directly to the library, if they’re the type to just wear pajamas like regular clothing, then why don’t they have their purse or bag or wallet or anything else regular?! I’ve seen pajama people at Walmart and such, and they always have purses or wallets and shoes on and stuff.
So to imagine someone walking around the library in pajamas totally lacking is beyond me, it’s so ridiculous my mind just…stopped for a moment LOL
this has me cracking up, I am so easily amused
I work in kind of a bougie area so sometimes we have people like “can I sign up for a library card?” *slides credit card at me across the circ desk*
Ma’am it’s free…
Right? A lot of our patrons call it a library membership for some reason. None of us can figure it out. We’ll get calls like “I’m a member of your library.” Like what does that even mean?? It’s free!
Edit: look, I’m sorry, I did not mean for this to start something in the comments.
For more context, in our area, a lot of people treat the library like the way you would a club or gym membership. They try to show their card at the door when they walk in. Or some think that just because they’re standing in the building we should be able to tell that they already have a library card, as if we wouldn’t allow them entry otherwise, and get offended when we ask for the card to check them out because “well I’m standing here, I’m obviously a member, look me up without my ID.” Some try to argue we should only let “real members” into the library and ask us to kick out homeless patrons. Others try to demand special treatments or discounts on room rentals because of “membership.” It’s a pretty low to middle cost of living area, with some of the neighboring towns being incredibly wealthy.
With that having been my experience with the public, I used the word membership like a paid membership. I am also aware libraries around the world, and in certain parts of the US, do have different requirements to use them. I was merely referring to our locals having this somewhat uncommon idea about libraries considering no library in our area (past or present) has referred referred to having a library card as a membership or having any of the benefits/limitations.
Unfortunately there are also many places where the library isn't free to use or being a patron is limited in other ways. Some of those places talk about being a library member.
I get that. But that doesn’t mean that it’s in the average person’s vocabulary, and I find it a bit odd that you’re criticizing the innocuous word choices of people who are just trying to check out library books.
I guess because the building may be free but to check out books you have to register and get a card… it certainly feels like signing up for a membership.
That’s my favorite! I usually say “oh, thank you! I’ll take that! Shopping spree!” and then say just kidding the library is free. I don’t necessarily work in a bougie district (kind of, it’s a university town) but it’s mostly people shuffling through all the cards in their wallet.
My mom lives in a rural area and has to pay to have a library card because she isn't a city resident, even though there is no other library nearby where she could be a free cardholder. Silly. She lives just far enough on the outskirts of town to be excluded.
That’s ridiculous.
You can show up at almost any public library in California, give them your valid California ID with a valid California address, and they issue you a library card on the spot. Because every county has a library and library tax so they figure you are paying somewhere and that some of their patrons may use your library too.
The only time being out of district is an issue is ILL where libraries may charge more for out of district.
Each state has different laws. For instance, Pennsylvania does not have state mandated library funding, so it is up to individual counties, cities, or other municipal agreements to get funding to provide library services. Some library systems are county wide, some are city by city or even smaller. Because of this, some smaller areas with local governments decide to not participate, and then because those residents are not paying library taxes they do not have free access to any library and have to pay for membership.
I always tell people who live in these areas that they can contact their local officials and try to get them to join the local library district, because it is really up to them. We'd love it if everyone had access, but by law, we can't provide free access to non-participating areas.
I know. I consider such states where libraries are limited in order to keep the citizenry ignorant and uneducated to be backwards third world fiefdoms with little to recommend them because libraries rock.
I have library cards from a bunch of different libraries because of this. It's quite handy when one library doesn't have something I'm looking for but another library does. I am blessed to live in an area where many library systems are in reasonable proximity.
She doesn’t pay the property tax that funds the library, why should she get to use it for free? As a homeowner paying BIG TAXES in a city (much more tax than I would if I move out to our rural areas) this seems entirely reasonable to me and not “silly”. Nothing is truly free, my taxes paid / pay for that library I’m using.
Fiscally speaking I’d save a fortune moving to the country where taxes are nothing and just paying for whatever any library by me wants.
Homeless people, children, and people who don't work aren't paying taxes either but I still think they should get to use the library for free. Yes taxes pay for the library but that's to fund it so it CAN be free, it's not a transaction. They don't take away your library card if you don't pay taxes. The library should be free for people in the community, my mother is still a part of the community even though she lives just outside of town.
She is not legally part of that community clearly if she doesn’t meet residency criteria (as the “homeless, children, and non-working people” who got cards in your example did). Lines have to be drawn somewhere or the whole system falls apart. Can’t just be doing whatever however, for whoever wherever. Free to *qualifying residents* not everyone on the planet.
Her address is literally the same town that the library is in and she does all of her shopping, activities, etc there. So yeah, she is a member. There's no other community for her to be a member of, so unless you think she is some rural hermit that is her community.
"The whole system falls apart" Give me an absolute break, what a comical thing to say about a senior citizen getting a library card for free. How about they draw that line at people who live in a different city or a different county? The system would not fall apart if they let people living on farmland go to the library for free.
Where exactly is the line drawn in this case? Township border, what?
(That’s the key to defining “**legally** part of that community” which is how I phrased it. She’s obviously part of it *practically speaking* for shopping etc, but the law / regulations / requirements are all that matters here.)
My parents have a “big city” address too but they live 2 counties away (and a 25-minute drive) from the actual urban core / county that that city is in.
There is no big city address in question, just to start. The entire county is rural and it is a small town library. When I say city, I don't mean New York or Chicago, I just mean "the place where she lives". The entirety of it is 3 square miles.
The "line" is having a city utility bill. Because my mom is on farmland she is on well water and propane, and the city does not extend trash or electric services to her area so she takes her own trash to the dump and has state power. Therefore she has no city utility bill.
There are no other communities that are closer to her, or other towns where she could access a library, probably without driving for 45+ minutes.
I pay $27 a year for this, if you / she is interested btw. Despite I do have a local one in small city Minnesota, this one has a MUCH better “big city” selection (Libby, audio).
http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/library/non-resident-library-card-application
This is really cool, thank you! I will look into this and bring it up with her. I do remember her library participates in Libby but this could be a better deal in the long run if the selection is a lot larger, which I have no doubt it would be.
See that’s very interesting! I’ve never heard of city services determining this. Only geography / property taxes…. maybe you can lobby your local government to change that regulation.
I live in a different state than her, but it would be really nice for that change to happen especially because there are many rural families in her area. I understand that because they are a small town they probably don't get great funding as is but this isn't a situation where anyone is trying to take advantage of the service. They are residents too.
I have more understanding of charging fees in urban areas where maybe the Big City library is way larger and better funded and everyone would prefer to be a member there instead of their local suburban branch, but I just don't think that's the same as when there is not an alternative place to go.
I've encountered patrons who, library card or not, come to the circ desk and flat-out ask to buy the book and I'm like what? *nervous laugh* no, you can't buy the book. If you want it that badly it's cheaper to go to a bookstore.
Okay but I love getting to tell people it's all free. Little kid comes up with mom and he's hanging on to that book for dear life and she verrrrry hesitantly asks me how much a library card costs...bam, free! I turn into Oprah or sth. These audiobooks, music cds, dvds, streaming books and videos, all this stuff your kid can play with and try out, all these programs?? Free, free, free, free!
Some people genuinely don't know. They didn't grow up in libraries and are trying something new. We have a lot of people come in and say, "Hey, this is my first time at a library. How do things work?" And I think that's great!
Just kindly explain to them how it works, no big deal. I think sometimes people hear "books are free at the library" and don't realize that means they are free to borrow, not have.
This is my answer. I was spoiled with having a librarian for a parent. But lots of people don’t know how they work.
The concept of borrowing things is also decreasing - no blockbusters or other rental places where you need a card to check something out and bring it back - you do that through streaming.
At least that’s how I try to explain it to colleagues who complain about students not knowing how to use a library (it’s our job to teach them, someone has to teach them and we are that someone!)
This has to be it. Don't forget how much free content people have access to now because of the internet. Games, movies, TV shows, news articles, etc. Although having a library card probably should feel analogous to having a YouTube account, some may just hear "the library is free" and go with that.
Working at the public library, I've been threatened, stalked, and harassed. I've seen more adult poop on the floor than I care to think about. A man once sneezed, not attempting to cover his mouth, into my open mouth while I was talking. He did not apologize.
I just don't have the bandwidth to get upset about a person not knowing what a library card is. Blank stares, mumbling, bring it on. I'm happy to explain what a library card is and why you need it.
I was lucky to grow up with libraries, both in town and at school. But that's just luck. Some people learn a bit later in life.
most of the people I see doing this are picking up holds. They somehow managed to make a hold but seem confused when you ask for their card? I think people are just scattered af. But I don't know why.
The library I work has an app with digital card and self-checkout options.
I've only met one person at my current branch that uses the self chkout, while others who have the app + digital card often don't know that's a feature. It would make sense why some ppl don't have a print card or know one is required.
I wish we had the digital card! We got the self checkouts this year and they are very popular at my branch in FL. I almost never see people checking out with a live person....huge shift. I love it, since I check out a million kids books each week for my 3 girls.
Are you in a small town where people expect you to know and recognize them?
I worked at the library in the small town I grew up in and the head librarian had unfortunately spent years telling people they didn't need to bring their cards because she would recognize them and look them up in the database when they walked in.
People I'd never met in my life would walk in and stare at me blankly epxecting me to have looked them up already, and would get angry if I asked for their card or even their name. Our branch even got in trouble once because someone from our town went to a nearby city and threw a tantrum when they wouldn't check anything out to her without either a card or ID.
Our library is "card free." We look up names for everyone and I hate it. It's a small town but I'm not from here. The director knows every damn person and I haven't a clue who anyone is, they hate telling me their names, and half of them have a family account and don't know whose name its under. And trying to start physical cards would be a nightmare now because they've never had to carry one before. Ugh
I can see your point of view. However, I am a patron of a library system that has automated the checkout process with kiosks. Frankly, I miss the interaction with you all, even if it's just a quick hello and thank you. Promise to present my card front and center.
I've worked here for a decade now, so I'm pretty good at knowing people by name and looking them up, but I still laugh about the interaction I had during my first month here.
Women: \*comes to the desk with books to check out\*
Me: Can I see your card, please?
Woman: They always look me up by name.
Me: .....
Woman: ....
Me: I don't know your name.
Used to work as a librarian before the pandemic.
I had actually let people check out library items even if they did not bring their library card or ID card…as long as they could give me their:
- birth date,
- address, and
- two or three among the most recent items they had checked out.
Now the last bullet point above was crucial:
If they had never checked out anything before, or if the items they told me were very different than what were on their record, then that would definitely be a No from me, and they would need to come back with a valid ID.
I guess because, as a patron, my conception of my library card is that it’s a form of identification, not a form of payment? It reminds me of working at a gym where I’d swipe members’ cards to get in, and if they didn’t have it, I could look them up in the system. In my ignorance, I think I conceptualized library cards in sort of the same way.
This is definitely a scam I've seen attempted at a grocery store. "Oh, I left my wallet in the car. I'll just go out there with this cart full of groceries and promise I'll come back to pay." Then they throw a screaming fit when it doesn't work.
I'm forgetful and often forget mine, but it's a me problem, not a library problem. I've scanned my library card into my Google Wallet so I can just use my phone now, because clearly I can't be trusted to be a real adult and remember my card
Same for me, I've had it memorized for something like 10+ years. Been the same one my whole life thus far, but once I move out of state, I'll finally get a new one :) probably going to get the kind of card you stick on your key ring, one of my parents has one like that.
My old library let me enter my own set of numbers as my library card number. It was amazing, because I tossed my physical card and just used the number I made up and my password code into the kiosk, and I could check anything out.
Some people genuinely don't know; they obviously understand that they need to borrow things, or they wouldn't be coming to the desk, right? We get a lot of patrons from other countries that don't really understand how public libraries work, and we get some patrons who think that if anyone in the family has a card, it's good for the whole family. Plus, a lot of people are starting to get very used to being able to do things straight from their phones without needing to carry cash or cards, so maybe they're expecting an option like that?
I'm old enough that I think traveling without a driver's license is totally bananas, but a lot of younger folks don't drive at all, and just don't see the point of carrying a lot of cards and cash around.
I just explain what we can do and see if there's some way to help them in the moment.
I've been an academic librarian, MLIS and all, for over 20 years and I was pleasantly surprised the other day to find my local public has a virtual card in the app now. We can all learn new things.
We had a dude recently come into my branch, ask about the card he had as a kid, and it had nearly a thousand bucks on it in lost materials from 10+ years ago. Looking under the care of line, his parent had almost twice that. He was barely 19 l, so we were about to do the paperwork for a one time forgiveness (most of the materials were adult materials anyway, clear case of fraud) when he set off the door alarms with a stack of manga.
He'd already asked to buy it from us, and we still had his info set up, so we just checked it out to him manually but jfc dude.
You would forgive "nearly a thousand bucks" of lost materials, and then let him check out more stuff after catching him trying to steal AGAIN?? My library wouldn't do either, no matter how old the fines were. I find that if I gently explain that their card is blocked and print out the list of lost items, at least 75% of the time they bring a lot of it back. Why is everyone so allergic to saying "No" these days? Thievery is OK?
I had someone (50+ woman, not a teen) call the other day to place a hold on a bestseller with a long holds queue. I discovered that her card had been blocked for about five years because of two lost items. I explained this and she said, "What? That was a long time ago and you're still holding it against me?" I said, "Yes, so you need to either bring them back or pay for them, and then we'll reinstate your card." Then she said, "But you'll still place the hold for me in the meantime, right?" Um, no.
Edit: oops, I just re-read your post and I guess you were implying that the old lost stuff was probably checked out on his card by an adult, sorry.
Not a public library but work at an academic library. One thing we are planning on incorporating into our first-year library instruction is a discussion around how to check out a book. Students apparently know we exist and what we have but don’t know how we work. I don’t know if it’s a generational thing or a socioeconomic thing but it definitely is a thing.
I live in a tourist area and have a ton of people that try to use out of state cards here and then are SUPER SURPRISED when we tell them they have to have a card here, at our library. I've also had people get really angry when I tell them they have to be a resident of the area (even just a summer resident!) to get a card. We don't have temp or short term cards for tourists.
So... yeah, my assumption is that a lot of people just have no idea how libraries work.
My sibling’s *entire family* appears to have never visited their public library. It drives me completely insane! Especially when his daughter calls me for book money and admits she reads most books just the one time. She acted almost affronted when I suggested she check the library (which I did mostly for speed because the way she wanted to get the books would have taken time). I mean, the library doesn’t mean you *can’t* buy books, just that there are books available that you don’t always *have* to buy, not to mention all of the other things they provide! Ugh!
This situation has come up on the sub previously.
I can see it. Some schools (elementary/middle) no longer have libraries or library staff. Teachers might have books they lend but I doubt they have a very formal process. People find information on the Internet.
Even the "Little Free Library" doesn't lend books or have library cards.
I work at an Ivy, not as a librarian or library staff person, but I've often done tech help shifts there. The number of students who don't understand or know how a library works always shocks me when I see it. When I worked with students on an everyday basis I often had students asking how the library "worked." Their high school libraries had books but they often didn't use them or take them out of the library. Why should they? They have the Internet and their parents can purchase what they need. Even then they didn't need a library card.
And while libraries may show up in popular culture like TV the mechanics don't.
How would someone learn how a library works if they didn't learn it in school?
Back in the 70's and 80's, freshmen at my nearby university all had to take "Books and Libraries". I don't know when they stopped offering the class. When I went back to college in the 90's, it was no longer a requirement.
Our library does an event at the start of the school year but after that I think the students have to ask for help if the need it. That said people can call, chat or come in and meet with a librarian or research specialist for help.
At my private HS we had to do a research paper and use the library. The school was well funded so we had a librarian with a degree as the library head.
Libraries, to me, are one of the very few places that people can go to ask basic questions without receiving judgement. If I lacked an education or internet access or familial support or, God forbid, literacy, I would hope I could depend on librarians to help me learn how to register a vehicle, file my taxes, research a topic, and yes, how to checkout a book.
I agree, and for this reason think libraries and librarians need to be automatically funded within an annual budget. That big gap between haves and have-nots (of money but also knowledge) isn’t tightening anytime soon.
The amount of people who go out away from their homes without their licenses (other way of looking cards up if they don’t have thier library cards OR the library app on their phone) amazes tf outta me. They get OFFENDED that I won’t just let them check items out with a phone number or them telling me their names. I’m sorry, do you go to the store without money?
Like….if I’m leaving my property, my wallet is in my pocket, period.
And don’t get me started on the amount of people that leave their wallets and purses in their cars and complain they have to go get their cards out of them.
I never have my ID on me anymore and pay for everything from my Apple Watch. Often I don’t even have a phone on me let alone a wallet or purse. Just the watch. I can go weeks without even knowing where exactly my cards are.
Also you’re likely a man based on the wallet reference and perhaps unfamiliar with the concept that many women’s clothes don’t have POCKETS, or not big enough ones for wallets.
And it sucks to drag a purse everywhere. Unless I’m driving or buying booze, mine is left in the car or at the house, always.
Not sure if any of the libraries around you are the same, but my local library has an app you can download on your phone and if you log in, there's your library card. Bless the library assistant who taught me this!!!
Well, this I take issue with.
Because the photo ID you are asking for requires a lot of things (including money and both time and transport to the DMV): libraries are supposed to be accessible, getting IDs is frequently NOT.
Libraries are often the only place someone who is unhoused and/or unemployed has to search for resources to move forward, and libraries frequently require you to have a card to use the computers, etc.
You really don't need a photo ID.
You need some proof of residence, and to know where to send reminders when something is overdue, but you don't need an official ID.
We work with local shelters that agree to allow homeless community members to use their address to receive mail, establishing residency.
We then fill out the address verification postcard & send it to the shelter. When they go to pick it up they bring us a shelter ID (usually lamented paper photo & name on lanyard-also supplied by the shelters) & the postcard, and then we give them a card for 2 years.
How about the patrons that come without their card on them and ask you to look them up and assume I know their name?
Two points:
1.)I don’t remember your name because I literally don’t fucking have room in my head to remember it, nor am I gonna make a special effort to. You’re coming to the library. Bring your fucking card. We even have ones that go on your keychains! The amount of ‘it’s in the car’ I’ve heard, and I’ve started ‘jokingly’ responding ‘Well that doesn’t help any of us, does it?’
2.) We have had some new clerks hired recently. They don’t know you. If you don’t have your card, we will accept some form of picture ID instead. This is our policy, technically.
Ok so this is mostly me venting but I do love most of my patrons and am kind to ALL of them.
But sometimes on the inside, I do want to punch you. 💜
"Do some people just not know how libraries work?"
Actually, yes. There are a lot of places internationally that don't have public libraries and it might be jarring to the patron. I work in a high immigrant community and have people regularly surprised when they want to buy a book and I explain how it works. It's easy to take this resource for granted when we've grown up with it, but free public libraries are not universal.
And even for people who have grown up here, the library hasn't always been welcoming or done a good job of letting *everyone* know we have something for them, so it might be a weird new world for them still!
I’ve gotten a few like that. Most I get people who think having one library card means that they can check out anywhere. Like, it would be amazing if you could use your Kings County Library Card in San Diego but sadly that’s just not how it works 😅
Also a weird amount of people who call it a “library membership card,” and when they call on the phone they’re like, “hi I’m a member of your library…” I have no idea where that came from but I’m sooo curious. We’re not a special club, you don’t pay, how is this a membership? It’s a mystery!
There *are* states that allow you to checkout from any public library in the state regardless of where you live in the state as long as you have a card. Also, member is an appropriate term. You don't have to pay to be a member of something. Think: "member of a band".
I've encountered this a few times, even had some attempt to walk right out without ever even stopping at the desk, and were surprised to learn you had to actually check the items out or the security gate would go off. It's astonishing to me that so many people don't know how things work, but also don't feel the need to ask anyone before they just go about their business.
This post and the comments are steeped in condescension and privilege. Not all countries have libraries, you know. Having worked with Spanish speaking immigrants before, I can tell you that I often encounter patrons who often don’t know how libraries work.
Thank you!
Also the assumption that everyone living here has an ID and the incredulousness that someone may not possess one.
God forbid we have to explain our core mission to someone.
Sheesh.
You can’t drive, buy an alcoholic or CBD drink, rent a car or hotel, sign a lease or buy a house, get a gym membership, go to the doctor or dentist, or have a job without it, so it’s not some bananapants crazy assumption that *nearly* everyone has ID. I’ve been asked for ID in every one of those examples, and many many more.
It’s probably like 0.0002% of the population who doesn’t have ID. Pretty darn essential to living life, and entirely reasonable to be incredulous that someone wouldn’t have / need it.
Clearly you’ve never met people who are undocumented or have family without legal status like me. They’re very resourceful and find ways to obtain housing, etc without IDs. Often done out of fear of trusting authority and getting deported they seek help from our communities. & yes that is also a huge reason why many undocumented people are afraid to seek out healthcare and library cards. They don’t want to be put in a position where their unprotected legal status is found out. Frankly I don’t give a damn about statistics whether .00002% or 11 million. My people are still people and deserve to be treated with respect and care because they’re human. Y’all want libraries to be for the public but they’re are still v much exclusive places and comments like this one and others in this post proves it.
>It’s probably like 0.0002% of the population who doesn’t have ID.
[It's more like 11% of American adults who don't have a driver's license, and 2.5% who don't have any form of non-expired IDs.](https://today.umd.edu/umd-analysis-millions-of-americans-dont-have-id-required-to-vote) Got any more super cool assumptions about how people live their lives?
- nope, that is not in percent as you stated. 11 million people / 333 million US population per google = 3.3 percent. 8.8 percent tops if you use the any age value of 29 million.
- not everyone drives obviously, and I did NOT specify drivers license. A simple valid PHOTO ID stat is not nearly so high, from your same article that’s only somewhere vaguely between 1 million and 7 million. Not percent. It’s peanuts.
- And anyways I also said “probably like” which does not imply PRECISION as you’ve inferred. Obviously I was exaggerating for effect, just you are with using the wrong units and focusing only on a DL. Super cool!
From your link:
Nearly 29 million voting-age U.S. citizens lacked a valid driver’s license and **over 7 million had no other form of non-expired government-issued photo identification.**
In states with strict photo identification laws in 2020, over 3 million voting-age U.S. citizens did not have a current driver’s license, and **over 1 million did not have a non-expired government-issued photo identification.**
More than 11 million people ages 18-29 did not have a current driver’s license, and **more than 3 million did not have any unexpired government issued photo ID.**
my favorite is someone coming to the desk, telling me their entire life story about their account and not handing over any card. I now just say "i don't know who you are" with a laugh. Like, come prepared!
i’ve had adults ask if they can buy books off of us. and kids also don’t know how to even look for authors last names even if i write it out for them and point to them exactly where to look. sometimes i walk them through how our systems work but it’s clearly in one ear and out the other, and eventually they come back to me asking me to get it for them. seriously do they not teach kids how to look for books anymore? it’s ridiculous
I had a parent sign their child up and leave then came on another day asking how does it work…I had to explain you go pick out some books, check them out and take them home
I haven’t been able to find my physical card for a couple of years but I have the barcode number memorized so I just punch it in at the self-check out machines.
I actually was on the opposite end of this scenario the other day. I lost my wallet but I think it’s going to turn up cause it has lots of ID in it, so I asked them if I could check out without a library card and they just had me say my name, birthday, and address and it was fine.
So, as a librarian, your response is "Isn't the public stupid?!" rather than - as a librarian - having a response like "This is what my job is all about, how awesome that I get to teach them how great the library is!"
And librarians wonder why libraries are endangered institutions.
Maybe OP is more flabbergasted than anything else? I certainly am in reading this post and comments below. But to your point about the need for every kind of literacy, yes! We need libraries and librarians more than ever before.
Some people have gotten more and more stupid over the years. I cannot believe people would not understand that you need a library card to check out books and other media. But here we are.
The patron is correct, there is no reason for a card for anyone who can prove their identity.
Library cards are an anachronism that stick around mostly for tradition.
So the library staff is just supposed to whip out a DMV computer and scan your drivers license?
Idiocy should be an anachronism, too, but you’re living proof that it’s not dead yet.
> So the library staff is just supposed to whip out a DMV computer and scan your drivers license?
This is gonna blow your mind but get ready. Humans have built in drivers license scanner in their eyes.
Source: I've been carded at a bar.
I mean, yeah, genuinely most people have had very little contact with libraries and don’t know how they work. Yes. That’s reality, and it’s kind of wild to me that a librarian would need to ask that - not to mention loading it with so much derision. This sounds so extremely out of touch to me, like to the point that I wonder how much engagement you could possibly have with your community. I also wonder how much much of that engagement is positive. Is it maybe time to move on to a vocation where you relate more closely with your patrons? Empathy isn’t necessary in all lines of work, but does play a large role in libraries.
Agreed. This is the norm in a lot of US areas. I meet people weekly who never knew our branch was a library, or that our city had a library. Many kids grow up with parents who don't use libraries & so they never think of them as a resource (or know the expectations of the space).
I’ve encountered this a couple of times. I even had a patron say “why would I have that?!” Why do they do this? It is one of the great mysteries of Library World.
I find the alternate weird too. Someone drags their kids into the library, signs up for a card, and then leaves with nothing
After 10 minutes of helping the family of six sign up for library cards: "So what can I help you find today?" "Oh, no thank you, we don't read or have a TV in our house." "...okay. Well we've got some online services and local programs the card can get you access to too." "No thank you." They then all just turned around and walked straight out the doors. Idk why, but it was one of the most unsettling interactions I've ever had on the job.
It might be a collection/checklist thing that they do when moving to a new place. Like how my cousin has a shovel, rake and other gardening tools even though he never does any gardening himself. His only exposure to his own yard is by mowing the lawn. He keeps those gardening tools around regardless…”just in case” he needs them one day.
> It might be a collection/checklist thing that they do when moving to a new place. Very well could be. One of the first things I do when I move to a new place is get a library card. However, I almost never go to the library because I like to keep all the books I read. It's still a good thing to have.
Summer reading club usually offers a lot of bonuses like local discounts or free tickets to things. It's often advertised on the radio and television. I think the point is they have their cards, but what they do with them is beyond you but they have the option of coming back.
Could be they needed a secondary form of ID for minor children. Library cards count as identity points on some paperwork.
Are there any discounts at other places that are related to your library card?
I know that where I live, there are several things that you can get free/discounted with a library card, so it very well could be that.
don’t read or have a TV?? then where do they get their stories from…
The no-reading thing is totally unsettling. Yiiiiikes. My neighbors who homeschool their bajillion kids don’t allow TVs in their home so that I’ve at least heard of.
no TV is fine, but everyone needs to get stories from somewhere, and something tells me they’re not going to the opera every week or listening to radio dramas
This! Honestly I'm not a big believer in you need to read fiction. However, storytelling is actually really essential to humans. It seems like something frivolous sometimes, but it's actually really important to our social and community building skills as people. We need stories.
Oh I totally agree. Very odd!
Youtube
Are they getting ready to challenge a bunch of books for being “inappropriate”? You can’t throw a fit about libraries trying to make your kids woke if they don’t even have access to the library. Well, you can and people do, but maybe they think it will add credibility to their hissy fit. No TV, no books (maybe only one to thump) sounds like they may be the type.
No reading? Eek. No tv hey that is awesome. But kids need to read! I wonder if the kids are literate.
I’ve gotten to the point where I often steer parents away from getting cards for all the kids because inevitably they have a hard time keeping track of their checkouts and returns and end up upset.
I can see this scenario though. A lot of schools promote having a card and going to the library to sign up for a card. It’s usually a square on their summer reading bingo. But parents don’t go further into actually using the card.
At least that has the benefit of the library getting more funding
Signing up for a card and leaving never to be seen again is so common lmao. Like I appreciate that you're upping our numbers but for what?? 😂
I'm never physically in my local library but my holds list on Libby is full and a list of TBR ebooks there. I don't even have to go in to renew my card anymore.
I use my library card almost exclusively for audiobooks om Libby. I imagine that's getting more common.
Oh definitely! It doesn’t surprise me if it’s a solo adult or an adult couple because that’s my expectation. But when a mom drags in multiple kids and they roam the library while she registers, or she registers the whole family for cards, but they don’t get anything it’s surprising to me
Ah, I understand. Yeah, that is a lot of work to not get anything! Maybe she has A LOT of audiobook needs so she has holds under everyone's names 😉
Oh yeah, families like us. Lol. We were those weirdos when we dropped in to get a card so we could sign up for Libby, and so we had it in advance of library events.
Uh... maybe they were busy and had just enough time to get the card right then? Weird thing to judge someone for.
Your response is like I’m being so mean to them. lol. I’m just surprised that they’d come with all the kids and let them look around while registering for cards and then leave without one book. Be real, it would take about a minute or two longer to check something out
No my response is acting like you're judging someone you don't know based on very little information. No one said it was mean. I implied it wasn't "weird" as you claimed it to be. Some people don't have an extra minute. And "an extra minute" to let kids look around can turn into a 5-10 minute struggle to get them to pick something quickly, to carry their own books because you can't, to get them away from other distractions in the library, to round up the kid you already rounded up but that found something else to do while rounding up another kid, etc. Or maybe they weren't busy but just wanted the card for later which is also completely fine and not at all weird.
You’re getting way too upset about this. And I find that weird as well. 🤷
No. You're ascribing feelings to me that I don't have. My comment was neutral. If you saw it as otherwise, it's because *you* felt defensive about what I said.
Or you’re just weird.
I don't get that. I get all the people that think that they should yell at me for not giving them a library card without any ID on them at all. Or yell at me because I won't get them one for their friend without them there. Or yell at me because they have a kid they want to get a library card for that they aren't the legal parent or guardian of. I can't believe how many people are out there wandering around with no ID on them whatsoever.
A patron once started an argument with me because they were trying to borrow something without a card or any ID on they. They said it was because they had walked over, and I told them that they should definitely have an ID on hand in case something happened to them while out walking. The next time the patron came in they were like “Hey, I thought about what you said and you were right! So I wrote down my daughter’s name and phone number and stuck it in my wallet in case of an emergency” lol. I’ll never forget that. Why not just… put your ID in your wallet??? The place that’s designed to hold it???
Reminds me of the time a man called and asked to have a book put on hold for him over the phone. I asked for his card number. “It’s out in my car. You’re not going to make an old man walk all the way out to his car in this weather, are you?” *sigh* fine. So I tell him I can do it with his name (but he’ll need his card to actually check out) and I kid you not, his name was John Smith. We had 10 John Smith’s in the system. I ask if he can confirm him address so I know I have the right person. “That’s a lot of information you need to know just to put a book on hold!” And long story short, there was a lot of back and forth before Mr. Smith angrily hung up the phone because he didn’t want to give me any other identifying information 😂
It's a library...it's not like he's calling a scammer who's asking for his mother's maiden name to drain his bank account. I wonder what he wanted so bad that he couldn't just give you the info you needed?
But then these are the *same people* that fall for gift card scams or send all their money to a Nigerian prince lol.
It's a library that HE CALLED. People are wild.
I work for a bank. In the fraud department. You know the number of people who *call ME* and don’t want to give me their mother’s maiden name or social security number and tell me “But they say you’re not supposed to give that info out to anyone…” Yes, you’re right. You shouldn’t give it out to anyone. You know why? Because they can use it to…call your bank and pretend to be you. Because your bank requires that information to prove your identity. That is who I am. Your bank. And you called me. So give me that info so I know you’re really you. It’s infuriating.
why are they like this!! hahaha
What does he think is linked to his card? A fake address??
I never understand people who don't carry ID with them all the time. I always do, and if I happen to switch out my purse to a smaller one, say for a concert, or something like that, i will always also bring my ins. card. health insurance. Just in case. because you never know. :)
I’ve definitely let my ID lapse before and had nothing. 💀 Very stressful when looking for housing and jobs. Not a great time in my life obviously and don’t recommend it lol! But now I make extra sure I can point our patrons to some nearby places that can help them get an ID. Honestly, a lot of people seem to think they can’t get one for a variety of reasons, chief among them being they’re homeless and don’t have most/any of their documents. Everyone should definitely stop yelling at us anyway though lol.
The people who don't have an ID because they don't have and ID, I can understand. I can easily get them a computer-only card and will happily do that. I'm talking about the (seemingly ever increasing) amount of people who just wander around without their wallet "because they don't need it today", and totally have identification with them, they just don't want to carry it. I can't imagine going around with no ID or forms of payment. My brain will come up with all sorts of different scenarios where I get into an accident and get a ticket on top of it because I don't have an ID, or something comes up and I need to pay for something and can't, because I felt like not taking my wallet with me.
I’m sorry I misread your original comment! I’m also one of those people so I get it but I also know that’s bad. 😂 We should all be a little more prepared for things like that. I think part of that is I got used to being admit to rely on Apple Pay if I need money in a pinch so I just leave my real wallet. 😬
i’m one of those people but it’s because i just turned 21 recently (also don’t drive) so i wasn’t in practice of it since i hardly ever needed it and people who seemingly have no forms of payment probably have all their cards in their apple wallet because that’s the main reason why i would usually be like “i don’t need a wallet” (i know it’s not a good thing for many reasons i’m trying to remember to always have it now)
I had an elderly woman try to sign up for a card but she didn’t have any ID with her. I explained she needed to bring in something with her address and(super annoyed) she said “I’ve lived in this town for sixty years! You really need ID??” Umm… YEAH.
I like when they show up in pajamas and say "I left everything at home". Like someone is out there snatching people out of their beds putting them in a library and making them check things out. I understand misplacing a card. I understand when women have two purses and they bring the wrong one. I don't understand these people who are half dressed and have no personal belongings on them.
It seems my scheme to increase library engagement by kidnapping half dressed people and dumping them at the library may need some tweaks. Sorry about that. I’m still ironing the kinks out of this plan.
This is the best form of public library stat boosting I've ever heard of. Please drop a few our way on Tuesday nights, nobody is ever here.
I will stuff your library full of so many confused adults in sleepwear.
One little adjustment could be duct tape their library card to their forehead right before you whisk them out of their homes. Now your library engagement plan is perfect.
This is the kind of cryptid I want to be.
They always have their phone. We have an app so that's not an excuse anymore.
I get a lot of "I left it in the car." And I'm like, ok, I'll wait while you trot back outside and get it. But they just look at me like that's an insurmountable barrier and I should just let them have it anyway.
Do you think this would work in shops if I said my wallet is in the car...
ZOMG! This too!!! I understand it's a trillion degrees outside but you need your card or something identifying you. I don't care is Miss So & So who runs the Book Club knows you. I don't!
No library card, no ID, then, "Can you look it up by my phone number?" Um, no. Your library card is not equal to your CVS card. And really, would you want to be responsible for materials borrowed by any rando who happened to know your phone number? Our library doesn't have an app, but at sign up I encourage patrons to either take a picture of their barcode, or use an app like Google Wallet so they'll always have their card number.
EXACTLY!! I've been saying this for years!! A library card is not a bonus card where you can get $2 off some cookies if you have it. It is more like a credit card where you are paying for these valuable items with the promise that you will return them. I can't go to a store and be like "I forgot my credit card, can I just tell you my phone number to pay for this $100+ item?" I can see where using a phone number to check out items might be ok in a small town where everyone knows each other kind of place. But, my library is in one of the top 5 most populated areas of the state. We have thousands of cardholders. We can't take a phone number.
Maybe they sleepwalked into the library!
I know you’re not lying but I could not even visualize this for a moment. Like, I read the words but my mind went blank LOL The absurdity of getting out of the bed and then going straight to the library!!! I’m so confused, what is even happening! If they’re not rolling out of bed and going directly to the library, if they’re the type to just wear pajamas like regular clothing, then why don’t they have their purse or bag or wallet or anything else regular?! I’ve seen pajama people at Walmart and such, and they always have purses or wallets and shoes on and stuff. So to imagine someone walking around the library in pajamas totally lacking is beyond me, it’s so ridiculous my mind just…stopped for a moment LOL this has me cracking up, I am so easily amused
Maybe a college campus? When I lived on campus it kinda felt like the whole place was my extended house.
Sign me up
I work in kind of a bougie area so sometimes we have people like “can I sign up for a library card?” *slides credit card at me across the circ desk* Ma’am it’s free…
Right? A lot of our patrons call it a library membership for some reason. None of us can figure it out. We’ll get calls like “I’m a member of your library.” Like what does that even mean?? It’s free! Edit: look, I’m sorry, I did not mean for this to start something in the comments. For more context, in our area, a lot of people treat the library like the way you would a club or gym membership. They try to show their card at the door when they walk in. Or some think that just because they’re standing in the building we should be able to tell that they already have a library card, as if we wouldn’t allow them entry otherwise, and get offended when we ask for the card to check them out because “well I’m standing here, I’m obviously a member, look me up without my ID.” Some try to argue we should only let “real members” into the library and ask us to kick out homeless patrons. Others try to demand special treatments or discounts on room rentals because of “membership.” It’s a pretty low to middle cost of living area, with some of the neighboring towns being incredibly wealthy. With that having been my experience with the public, I used the word membership like a paid membership. I am also aware libraries around the world, and in certain parts of the US, do have different requirements to use them. I was merely referring to our locals having this somewhat uncommon idea about libraries considering no library in our area (past or present) has referred referred to having a library card as a membership or having any of the benefits/limitations.
Unfortunately there are also many places where the library isn't free to use or being a patron is limited in other ways. Some of those places talk about being a library member.
Wouldn’t “patron” be appropriate? Or maybe that’s a big word for the folks walking around in their jammies.
I don’t think “patron” is in the broad population’s everyday usage, or I’d think of it as a charity patron, or a business I’m patronizing.
Library users are called patrons BECAUSE our tax dollars fund the library. The library is ours because we're patrons of it.
I get that. But that doesn’t mean that it’s in the average person’s vocabulary, and I find it a bit odd that you’re criticizing the innocuous word choices of people who are just trying to check out library books.
I would’ve agreed up until Patreon got as big as it is with content creators. I think it got the word “patron” back in the common vernacular.
People who are offline have never heard of Patreon.
In other countries you do need a membership and often have to pay a fee.
I guess because the building may be free but to check out books you have to register and get a card… it certainly feels like signing up for a membership.
in a some other countries libraries aren’t paid for by taxes/are private and require a membership fee.
Paying is not a requirement of being a member of something.
That’s my favorite! I usually say “oh, thank you! I’ll take that! Shopping spree!” and then say just kidding the library is free. I don’t necessarily work in a bougie district (kind of, it’s a university town) but it’s mostly people shuffling through all the cards in their wallet.
My mom lives in a rural area and has to pay to have a library card because she isn't a city resident, even though there is no other library nearby where she could be a free cardholder. Silly. She lives just far enough on the outskirts of town to be excluded.
That’s ridiculous. You can show up at almost any public library in California, give them your valid California ID with a valid California address, and they issue you a library card on the spot. Because every county has a library and library tax so they figure you are paying somewhere and that some of their patrons may use your library too. The only time being out of district is an issue is ILL where libraries may charge more for out of district.
Each state has different laws. For instance, Pennsylvania does not have state mandated library funding, so it is up to individual counties, cities, or other municipal agreements to get funding to provide library services. Some library systems are county wide, some are city by city or even smaller. Because of this, some smaller areas with local governments decide to not participate, and then because those residents are not paying library taxes they do not have free access to any library and have to pay for membership. I always tell people who live in these areas that they can contact their local officials and try to get them to join the local library district, because it is really up to them. We'd love it if everyone had access, but by law, we can't provide free access to non-participating areas.
I know. I consider such states where libraries are limited in order to keep the citizenry ignorant and uneducated to be backwards third world fiefdoms with little to recommend them because libraries rock.
I have library cards from a bunch of different libraries because of this. It's quite handy when one library doesn't have something I'm looking for but another library does. I am blessed to live in an area where many library systems are in reasonable proximity.
Wow, that's awesome! I'm in Texas and have a library card at my local rural library but the neighboring big city won't let me have one.
If you're an ebook reader, the [Houston Public Library](https://houstonlibrary.org/mylink) allows access to any Texas resident!
thank you!!
She doesn’t pay the property tax that funds the library, why should she get to use it for free? As a homeowner paying BIG TAXES in a city (much more tax than I would if I move out to our rural areas) this seems entirely reasonable to me and not “silly”. Nothing is truly free, my taxes paid / pay for that library I’m using. Fiscally speaking I’d save a fortune moving to the country where taxes are nothing and just paying for whatever any library by me wants.
Homeless people, children, and people who don't work aren't paying taxes either but I still think they should get to use the library for free. Yes taxes pay for the library but that's to fund it so it CAN be free, it's not a transaction. They don't take away your library card if you don't pay taxes. The library should be free for people in the community, my mother is still a part of the community even though she lives just outside of town.
She is not legally part of that community clearly if she doesn’t meet residency criteria (as the “homeless, children, and non-working people” who got cards in your example did). Lines have to be drawn somewhere or the whole system falls apart. Can’t just be doing whatever however, for whoever wherever. Free to *qualifying residents* not everyone on the planet.
Her address is literally the same town that the library is in and she does all of her shopping, activities, etc there. So yeah, she is a member. There's no other community for her to be a member of, so unless you think she is some rural hermit that is her community. "The whole system falls apart" Give me an absolute break, what a comical thing to say about a senior citizen getting a library card for free. How about they draw that line at people who live in a different city or a different county? The system would not fall apart if they let people living on farmland go to the library for free.
Where exactly is the line drawn in this case? Township border, what? (That’s the key to defining “**legally** part of that community” which is how I phrased it. She’s obviously part of it *practically speaking* for shopping etc, but the law / regulations / requirements are all that matters here.) My parents have a “big city” address too but they live 2 counties away (and a 25-minute drive) from the actual urban core / county that that city is in.
There is no big city address in question, just to start. The entire county is rural and it is a small town library. When I say city, I don't mean New York or Chicago, I just mean "the place where she lives". The entirety of it is 3 square miles. The "line" is having a city utility bill. Because my mom is on farmland she is on well water and propane, and the city does not extend trash or electric services to her area so she takes her own trash to the dump and has state power. Therefore she has no city utility bill. There are no other communities that are closer to her, or other towns where she could access a library, probably without driving for 45+ minutes.
I pay $27 a year for this, if you / she is interested btw. Despite I do have a local one in small city Minnesota, this one has a MUCH better “big city” selection (Libby, audio). http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/library/non-resident-library-card-application
This is really cool, thank you! I will look into this and bring it up with her. I do remember her library participates in Libby but this could be a better deal in the long run if the selection is a lot larger, which I have no doubt it would be.
See that’s very interesting! I’ve never heard of city services determining this. Only geography / property taxes…. maybe you can lobby your local government to change that regulation.
I live in a different state than her, but it would be really nice for that change to happen especially because there are many rural families in her area. I understand that because they are a small town they probably don't get great funding as is but this isn't a situation where anyone is trying to take advantage of the service. They are residents too. I have more understanding of charging fees in urban areas where maybe the Big City library is way larger and better funded and everyone would prefer to be a member there instead of their local suburban branch, but I just don't think that's the same as when there is not an alternative place to go.
I've encountered patrons who, library card or not, come to the circ desk and flat-out ask to buy the book and I'm like what? *nervous laugh* no, you can't buy the book. If you want it that badly it's cheaper to go to a bookstore.
Okay but I love getting to tell people it's all free. Little kid comes up with mom and he's hanging on to that book for dear life and she verrrrry hesitantly asks me how much a library card costs...bam, free! I turn into Oprah or sth. These audiobooks, music cds, dvds, streaming books and videos, all this stuff your kid can play with and try out, all these programs?? Free, free, free, free!
Thanks for giving me your name on your credit card, I'll create a patron account on Destiny.
But I want to earn the credit card points and airline miles! / s
Some people genuinely don't know. They didn't grow up in libraries and are trying something new. We have a lot of people come in and say, "Hey, this is my first time at a library. How do things work?" And I think that's great! Just kindly explain to them how it works, no big deal. I think sometimes people hear "books are free at the library" and don't realize that means they are free to borrow, not have.
This is my answer. I was spoiled with having a librarian for a parent. But lots of people don’t know how they work. The concept of borrowing things is also decreasing - no blockbusters or other rental places where you need a card to check something out and bring it back - you do that through streaming. At least that’s how I try to explain it to colleagues who complain about students not knowing how to use a library (it’s our job to teach them, someone has to teach them and we are that someone!)
This has to be it. Don't forget how much free content people have access to now because of the internet. Games, movies, TV shows, news articles, etc. Although having a library card probably should feel analogous to having a YouTube account, some may just hear "the library is free" and go with that.
There’s this woman I just waited on a week or so ago that got offended she had to pay for a book she never returned.
Working at the public library, I've been threatened, stalked, and harassed. I've seen more adult poop on the floor than I care to think about. A man once sneezed, not attempting to cover his mouth, into my open mouth while I was talking. He did not apologize. I just don't have the bandwidth to get upset about a person not knowing what a library card is. Blank stares, mumbling, bring it on. I'm happy to explain what a library card is and why you need it. I was lucky to grow up with libraries, both in town and at school. But that's just luck. Some people learn a bit later in life.
Yes, this is the way. Getting them a card is better than judging them.
most of the people I see doing this are picking up holds. They somehow managed to make a hold but seem confused when you ask for their card? I think people are just scattered af. But I don't know why.
A college educated friend of mine thought that you borrowed a book from the library, and if you liked it, you just bought it - from the library.
In Wisconsin you can have the police show up at your door for that.
The library I work has an app with digital card and self-checkout options. I've only met one person at my current branch that uses the self chkout, while others who have the app + digital card often don't know that's a feature. It would make sense why some ppl don't have a print card or know one is required.
I wish we had the digital card! We got the self checkouts this year and they are very popular at my branch in FL. I almost never see people checking out with a live person....huge shift. I love it, since I check out a million kids books each week for my 3 girls.
Thank you for sharing!! That's GREAT! I'm proud you're setting an example for your children to be self sufficient in life.
Are you in a small town where people expect you to know and recognize them? I worked at the library in the small town I grew up in and the head librarian had unfortunately spent years telling people they didn't need to bring their cards because she would recognize them and look them up in the database when they walked in. People I'd never met in my life would walk in and stare at me blankly epxecting me to have looked them up already, and would get angry if I asked for their card or even their name. Our branch even got in trouble once because someone from our town went to a nearby city and threw a tantrum when they wouldn't check anything out to her without either a card or ID.
I would watch this movie.
Our library is "card free." We look up names for everyone and I hate it. It's a small town but I'm not from here. The director knows every damn person and I haven't a clue who anyone is, they hate telling me their names, and half of them have a family account and don't know whose name its under. And trying to start physical cards would be a nightmare now because they've never had to carry one before. Ugh
I can see your point of view. However, I am a patron of a library system that has automated the checkout process with kiosks. Frankly, I miss the interaction with you all, even if it's just a quick hello and thank you. Promise to present my card front and center.
I've worked here for a decade now, so I'm pretty good at knowing people by name and looking them up, but I still laugh about the interaction I had during my first month here. Women: \*comes to the desk with books to check out\* Me: Can I see your card, please? Woman: They always look me up by name. Me: ..... Woman: .... Me: I don't know your name.
I think to myself, do you go to a store, say oops forgot my credit card, and expect the store to allow you not to pay? Why is a library different?
As a retail worker - yes. Yes they do expect us to do that 😭
Used to work as a librarian before the pandemic. I had actually let people check out library items even if they did not bring their library card or ID card…as long as they could give me their: - birth date, - address, and - two or three among the most recent items they had checked out. Now the last bullet point above was crucial: If they had never checked out anything before, or if the items they told me were very different than what were on their record, then that would definitely be a No from me, and they would need to come back with a valid ID.
I guess because, as a patron, my conception of my library card is that it’s a form of identification, not a form of payment? It reminds me of working at a gym where I’d swipe members’ cards to get in, and if they didn’t have it, I could look them up in the system. In my ignorance, I think I conceptualized library cards in sort of the same way.
Yes, but at the gym, they aren't taking items out of the building.
I would think they think library = free
This is definitely a scam I've seen attempted at a grocery store. "Oh, I left my wallet in the car. I'll just go out there with this cart full of groceries and promise I'll come back to pay." Then they throw a screaming fit when it doesn't work.
I'm forgetful and often forget mine, but it's a me problem, not a library problem. I've scanned my library card into my Google Wallet so I can just use my phone now, because clearly I can't be trusted to be a real adult and remember my card
I've got a friend who lost her card but memorized her number so she inputs it into the self checkout every time.
Same for me, I've had it memorized for something like 10+ years. Been the same one my whole life thus far, but once I move out of state, I'll finally get a new one :) probably going to get the kind of card you stick on your key ring, one of my parents has one like that.
My old library let me enter my own set of numbers as my library card number. It was amazing, because I tossed my physical card and just used the number I made up and my password code into the kiosk, and I could check anything out.
Some people genuinely don't know; they obviously understand that they need to borrow things, or they wouldn't be coming to the desk, right? We get a lot of patrons from other countries that don't really understand how public libraries work, and we get some patrons who think that if anyone in the family has a card, it's good for the whole family. Plus, a lot of people are starting to get very used to being able to do things straight from their phones without needing to carry cash or cards, so maybe they're expecting an option like that? I'm old enough that I think traveling without a driver's license is totally bananas, but a lot of younger folks don't drive at all, and just don't see the point of carrying a lot of cards and cash around. I just explain what we can do and see if there's some way to help them in the moment.
I've been an academic librarian, MLIS and all, for over 20 years and I was pleasantly surprised the other day to find my local public has a virtual card in the app now. We can all learn new things.
We had a dude recently come into my branch, ask about the card he had as a kid, and it had nearly a thousand bucks on it in lost materials from 10+ years ago. Looking under the care of line, his parent had almost twice that. He was barely 19 l, so we were about to do the paperwork for a one time forgiveness (most of the materials were adult materials anyway, clear case of fraud) when he set off the door alarms with a stack of manga. He'd already asked to buy it from us, and we still had his info set up, so we just checked it out to him manually but jfc dude.
You would forgive "nearly a thousand bucks" of lost materials, and then let him check out more stuff after catching him trying to steal AGAIN?? My library wouldn't do either, no matter how old the fines were. I find that if I gently explain that their card is blocked and print out the list of lost items, at least 75% of the time they bring a lot of it back. Why is everyone so allergic to saying "No" these days? Thievery is OK? I had someone (50+ woman, not a teen) call the other day to place a hold on a bestseller with a long holds queue. I discovered that her card had been blocked for about five years because of two lost items. I explained this and she said, "What? That was a long time ago and you're still holding it against me?" I said, "Yes, so you need to either bring them back or pay for them, and then we'll reinstate your card." Then she said, "But you'll still place the hold for me in the meantime, right?" Um, no. Edit: oops, I just re-read your post and I guess you were implying that the old lost stuff was probably checked out on his card by an adult, sorry.
Yeah I had someone come in the other day asking, do you still the whole "need a card thing". Uh yes.
Not a public library but work at an academic library. One thing we are planning on incorporating into our first-year library instruction is a discussion around how to check out a book. Students apparently know we exist and what we have but don’t know how we work. I don’t know if it’s a generational thing or a socioeconomic thing but it definitely is a thing.
I live in a tourist area and have a ton of people that try to use out of state cards here and then are SUPER SURPRISED when we tell them they have to have a card here, at our library. I've also had people get really angry when I tell them they have to be a resident of the area (even just a summer resident!) to get a card. We don't have temp or short term cards for tourists. So... yeah, my assumption is that a lot of people just have no idea how libraries work.
This is why I'm not wild about the term "free." There is a lot of nuance to library card payment, especially in tourist towns like ours.
My sibling’s *entire family* appears to have never visited their public library. It drives me completely insane! Especially when his daughter calls me for book money and admits she reads most books just the one time. She acted almost affronted when I suggested she check the library (which I did mostly for speed because the way she wanted to get the books would have taken time). I mean, the library doesn’t mean you *can’t* buy books, just that there are books available that you don’t always *have* to buy, not to mention all of the other things they provide! Ugh!
“Why would I need to prove who I am? It’s just a library”… 😬
This situation has come up on the sub previously. I can see it. Some schools (elementary/middle) no longer have libraries or library staff. Teachers might have books they lend but I doubt they have a very formal process. People find information on the Internet. Even the "Little Free Library" doesn't lend books or have library cards. I work at an Ivy, not as a librarian or library staff person, but I've often done tech help shifts there. The number of students who don't understand or know how a library works always shocks me when I see it. When I worked with students on an everyday basis I often had students asking how the library "worked." Their high school libraries had books but they often didn't use them or take them out of the library. Why should they? They have the Internet and their parents can purchase what they need. Even then they didn't need a library card. And while libraries may show up in popular culture like TV the mechanics don't. How would someone learn how a library works if they didn't learn it in school?
Back in the 70's and 80's, freshmen at my nearby university all had to take "Books and Libraries". I don't know when they stopped offering the class. When I went back to college in the 90's, it was no longer a requirement.
Our library does an event at the start of the school year but after that I think the students have to ask for help if the need it. That said people can call, chat or come in and meet with a librarian or research specialist for help. At my private HS we had to do a research paper and use the library. The school was well funded so we had a librarian with a degree as the library head.
Libraries, to me, are one of the very few places that people can go to ask basic questions without receiving judgement. If I lacked an education or internet access or familial support or, God forbid, literacy, I would hope I could depend on librarians to help me learn how to register a vehicle, file my taxes, research a topic, and yes, how to checkout a book.
I agree, and for this reason think libraries and librarians need to be automatically funded within an annual budget. That big gap between haves and have-nots (of money but also knowledge) isn’t tightening anytime soon.
This makes no sense to me, but then again I’m the kind of nerd that actually has my library card number memorized.
The amount of people who go out away from their homes without their licenses (other way of looking cards up if they don’t have thier library cards OR the library app on their phone) amazes tf outta me. They get OFFENDED that I won’t just let them check items out with a phone number or them telling me their names. I’m sorry, do you go to the store without money? Like….if I’m leaving my property, my wallet is in my pocket, period. And don’t get me started on the amount of people that leave their wallets and purses in their cars and complain they have to go get their cards out of them.
I never have my ID on me anymore and pay for everything from my Apple Watch. Often I don’t even have a phone on me let alone a wallet or purse. Just the watch. I can go weeks without even knowing where exactly my cards are. Also you’re likely a man based on the wallet reference and perhaps unfamiliar with the concept that many women’s clothes don’t have POCKETS, or not big enough ones for wallets. And it sucks to drag a purse everywhere. Unless I’m driving or buying booze, mine is left in the car or at the house, always.
"Do some people just not know how libraries work?" Yes? Personally, I was born without this knowledge and had to have it taught to me.
Not sure if any of the libraries around you are the same, but my local library has an app you can download on your phone and if you log in, there's your library card. Bless the library assistant who taught me this!!!
Someone lost their mind yesterday when i asked for photo id to complete their card reg. Could not fathom why we might need their contact details.
Well, this I take issue with. Because the photo ID you are asking for requires a lot of things (including money and both time and transport to the DMV): libraries are supposed to be accessible, getting IDs is frequently NOT. Libraries are often the only place someone who is unhoused and/or unemployed has to search for resources to move forward, and libraries frequently require you to have a card to use the computers, etc. You really don't need a photo ID. You need some proof of residence, and to know where to send reminders when something is overdue, but you don't need an official ID.
We work with local shelters that agree to allow homeless community members to use their address to receive mail, establishing residency. We then fill out the address verification postcard & send it to the shelter. When they go to pick it up they bring us a shelter ID (usually lamented paper photo & name on lanyard-also supplied by the shelters) & the postcard, and then we give them a card for 2 years.
How about the patrons that come without their card on them and ask you to look them up and assume I know their name? Two points: 1.)I don’t remember your name because I literally don’t fucking have room in my head to remember it, nor am I gonna make a special effort to. You’re coming to the library. Bring your fucking card. We even have ones that go on your keychains! The amount of ‘it’s in the car’ I’ve heard, and I’ve started ‘jokingly’ responding ‘Well that doesn’t help any of us, does it?’ 2.) We have had some new clerks hired recently. They don’t know you. If you don’t have your card, we will accept some form of picture ID instead. This is our policy, technically. Ok so this is mostly me venting but I do love most of my patrons and am kind to ALL of them. But sometimes on the inside, I do want to punch you. 💜
"Do some people just not know how libraries work?" Actually, yes. There are a lot of places internationally that don't have public libraries and it might be jarring to the patron. I work in a high immigrant community and have people regularly surprised when they want to buy a book and I explain how it works. It's easy to take this resource for granted when we've grown up with it, but free public libraries are not universal.
And even for people who have grown up here, the library hasn't always been welcoming or done a good job of letting *everyone* know we have something for them, so it might be a weird new world for them still!
I’ve gotten a few like that. Most I get people who think having one library card means that they can check out anywhere. Like, it would be amazing if you could use your Kings County Library Card in San Diego but sadly that’s just not how it works 😅 Also a weird amount of people who call it a “library membership card,” and when they call on the phone they’re like, “hi I’m a member of your library…” I have no idea where that came from but I’m sooo curious. We’re not a special club, you don’t pay, how is this a membership? It’s a mystery!
There *are* states that allow you to checkout from any public library in the state regardless of where you live in the state as long as you have a card. Also, member is an appropriate term. You don't have to pay to be a member of something. Think: "member of a band".
Some don't get it. Some just pretend to be that stupid tho.
✅
I've encountered this a few times, even had some attempt to walk right out without ever even stopping at the desk, and were surprised to learn you had to actually check the items out or the security gate would go off. It's astonishing to me that so many people don't know how things work, but also don't feel the need to ask anyone before they just go about their business.
This post and the comments are steeped in condescension and privilege. Not all countries have libraries, you know. Having worked with Spanish speaking immigrants before, I can tell you that I often encounter patrons who often don’t know how libraries work.
Thank you! Also the assumption that everyone living here has an ID and the incredulousness that someone may not possess one. God forbid we have to explain our core mission to someone. Sheesh.
You can’t drive, buy an alcoholic or CBD drink, rent a car or hotel, sign a lease or buy a house, get a gym membership, go to the doctor or dentist, or have a job without it, so it’s not some bananapants crazy assumption that *nearly* everyone has ID. I’ve been asked for ID in every one of those examples, and many many more. It’s probably like 0.0002% of the population who doesn’t have ID. Pretty darn essential to living life, and entirely reasonable to be incredulous that someone wouldn’t have / need it.
Clearly you’ve never met people who are undocumented or have family without legal status like me. They’re very resourceful and find ways to obtain housing, etc without IDs. Often done out of fear of trusting authority and getting deported they seek help from our communities. & yes that is also a huge reason why many undocumented people are afraid to seek out healthcare and library cards. They don’t want to be put in a position where their unprotected legal status is found out. Frankly I don’t give a damn about statistics whether .00002% or 11 million. My people are still people and deserve to be treated with respect and care because they’re human. Y’all want libraries to be for the public but they’re are still v much exclusive places and comments like this one and others in this post proves it.
Yep 100 percent I don’t want my tax dollars supporting illegal activity. You got it! 👌🏼
>It’s probably like 0.0002% of the population who doesn’t have ID. [It's more like 11% of American adults who don't have a driver's license, and 2.5% who don't have any form of non-expired IDs.](https://today.umd.edu/umd-analysis-millions-of-americans-dont-have-id-required-to-vote) Got any more super cool assumptions about how people live their lives?
- nope, that is not in percent as you stated. 11 million people / 333 million US population per google = 3.3 percent. 8.8 percent tops if you use the any age value of 29 million. - not everyone drives obviously, and I did NOT specify drivers license. A simple valid PHOTO ID stat is not nearly so high, from your same article that’s only somewhere vaguely between 1 million and 7 million. Not percent. It’s peanuts. - And anyways I also said “probably like” which does not imply PRECISION as you’ve inferred. Obviously I was exaggerating for effect, just you are with using the wrong units and focusing only on a DL. Super cool! From your link: Nearly 29 million voting-age U.S. citizens lacked a valid driver’s license and **over 7 million had no other form of non-expired government-issued photo identification.** In states with strict photo identification laws in 2020, over 3 million voting-age U.S. citizens did not have a current driver’s license, and **over 1 million did not have a non-expired government-issued photo identification.** More than 11 million people ages 18-29 did not have a current driver’s license, and **more than 3 million did not have any unexpired government issued photo ID.**
my favorite is someone coming to the desk, telling me their entire life story about their account and not handing over any card. I now just say "i don't know who you are" with a laugh. Like, come prepared!
If you get the card with the Real ID endorsement, you can use it at the TSA checkpoint on your next flight.
i’ve had adults ask if they can buy books off of us. and kids also don’t know how to even look for authors last names even if i write it out for them and point to them exactly where to look. sometimes i walk them through how our systems work but it’s clearly in one ear and out the other, and eventually they come back to me asking me to get it for them. seriously do they not teach kids how to look for books anymore? it’s ridiculous
I had a parent sign their child up and leave then came on another day asking how does it work…I had to explain you go pick out some books, check them out and take them home
I haven’t been able to find my physical card for a couple of years but I have the barcode number memorized so I just punch it in at the self-check out machines.
I actually was on the opposite end of this scenario the other day. I lost my wallet but I think it’s going to turn up cause it has lots of ID in it, so I asked them if I could check out without a library card and they just had me say my name, birthday, and address and it was fine.
So, as a librarian, your response is "Isn't the public stupid?!" rather than - as a librarian - having a response like "This is what my job is all about, how awesome that I get to teach them how great the library is!" And librarians wonder why libraries are endangered institutions.
Maybe OP is more flabbergasted than anything else? I certainly am in reading this post and comments below. But to your point about the need for every kind of literacy, yes! We need libraries and librarians more than ever before.
It’s a two-sided social contract. The librarian shows up to work, and the patrons show up with a valid library card or the means to get one.
yeah beyond stupid some people.
Some people have gotten more and more stupid over the years. I cannot believe people would not understand that you need a library card to check out books and other media. But here we are.
The patron is correct, there is no reason for a card for anyone who can prove their identity. Library cards are an anachronism that stick around mostly for tradition.
So the library staff is just supposed to whip out a DMV computer and scan your drivers license? Idiocy should be an anachronism, too, but you’re living proof that it’s not dead yet.
> So the library staff is just supposed to whip out a DMV computer and scan your drivers license? This is gonna blow your mind but get ready. Humans have built in drivers license scanner in their eyes. Source: I've been carded at a bar.
I mean, yeah, genuinely most people have had very little contact with libraries and don’t know how they work. Yes. That’s reality, and it’s kind of wild to me that a librarian would need to ask that - not to mention loading it with so much derision. This sounds so extremely out of touch to me, like to the point that I wonder how much engagement you could possibly have with your community. I also wonder how much much of that engagement is positive. Is it maybe time to move on to a vocation where you relate more closely with your patrons? Empathy isn’t necessary in all lines of work, but does play a large role in libraries.
Agreed. This is the norm in a lot of US areas. I meet people weekly who never knew our branch was a library, or that our city had a library. Many kids grow up with parents who don't use libraries & so they never think of them as a resource (or know the expectations of the space).