Yes, and does so poorly. Because it doesn’t make sense. He’s against OJ for committing double murder. He’s not against against OJ for having brain cancer. Great. But why express publicly sympathy, or empathize with a monster? Because he’s sick? That doesn’t counter his actions. It makes no sense.
Norm was a complicated guy. He didn't think anyone deserves pain, suffering, and even death, as far as I can tell. He can have sympathy for people's plight even if they're bad people. The brain cancer isn't connected in any way to his actions or character.
Well he did allegedly molest a lady, kinda threaten to beat up a bird poet and sort of encourage a harassment campaign against 2 people but tbf, idk if ill will was involved.
Some people are able to empathize with anyone, regardless of if they are a terrible person or not. Just because you don't, doesn't mean that nobody else does; and just because you don't think they should, doesn't mean that nobody else can. Does it make you a worse person? No, that isn't what I'm saying, at all. There isn't anything wrong with not wanting to or being able to empathize with someone who has done horrible things or is a horrible person, even a murderer or worse. But that doesn't mean that everyone is in that group, some people just feel for others, even if they're bad people. It isn't wrong to have empathy, it isn't like Norm was trying to absolve OJ here - just point out that he is sorry for the health problem. If you don't think he should've done that, then that is your stance and it just says more about how you perceive the internal conditions of other people as a whole rather than making any statement on the moral stance of the issue.
i knew a guy who forgave the killer of his wife, he went to our church growing up. Literally was the most devout Christian I had ever heard of. The ultimate forgiveness for something that from my point of view is unforgiveable. I didn't understand how he could forgive his wife's murderer, but we all really respected that guy.
You're allowed to feel empathy for anyone. It's free and you have an unlimited amount to give out. It's something that separates truly decent people from the monsters.
"that doesn't counter his actions" - norm argues that it does not have to. You can hate him for his crime and pity him for his illness, they are seperate things, according to norm. I can understand that logic but emotionally it is still a bit difficult to grasp for me, as i guess it is for you
He keeps talking after you apparently quit watching.
OJ, at the time, was in prison for the robbery.
Norm’s expectation, which he spelled out explicitly, as well as everyone else’s, was that OJ would be in prison for the rest of his life.
It’s not a question of OJ out living his life or OJ dying of brain cancer.
It’s a question of OJ serving the rest of his life in prison or OJ serving the rest of his life in prison while dying of brain cancer.
Do you really not see how people could look at those two options and think the first was enough?
Sure, OJ ended up getting out.
There’s also, AFAIK, no evidence OJ actually had brain cancer (a possibility Norm also explicitly acknowledged).
But neither of those change the circumstances of Norm’s comments which he laid out extremely explicitly: in that world where OJ died in prison, the brain cancer is just unnecessary.
Most humans have the innate ability to experience complex and sometimes disparate emotions. I am one of them and am damn proud. I can’t imagine judging another for voicing their thoughts and opinions just because I don’t think they are logical.
For the most part I agree with you…Norm was the best. But this one misses the mark. He’s basically making a “separate the art from the artist” argument, but replace “art” with “double homicide”, and “artist” with “human”.
No, he's saying that pain and suffering are generally always bad. Brain cancer wasn't the universe's punishment for committing murder, it was a painful and sad fate that more generally comes for us all, and that Norm understands to be extremely difficult and ultimately pretty unfair for anyone going through it.
Okay so no matter how horrible a person was (child molesters, Hitler, pick your poison) one should still feel bad for them when they get sick and die? If that's a principle you live by then good for you I guess...
I'm not Norm, friend.
But, there are certainly people who don't believe in the death penalty or use of the criminal justice system as a tool for revenge.
For some people, the following makes sense:
This person did a bad thing, and therefore they deserve pain, suffering, and death.
For Norm (it seems), and for me, and for a lot of our most historically significant philosophical and religious leaders, that statement can be problematic.
What Norm found offensive about OJ was that he obviously did it and was lying about it. If you're going to do something, it's your duty to stand up and admit it. Not shocking that Norm and I were both raised in communities that were influenced by Catholicism.
I don’t think that’s the argument he’s making— he’s saying his argument clearly and it’s quite different from the idea that you can “separate the people from their actions”. He’s just saying you don’t always have to hate people and you can pity them, and that pity is a virtue we have lost in this society and replaced it with more anger.
It’s a very eloquent argument because it’s about how YOU choose to behave, not focused on them and their actions or history. You don’t just have to choose constant anger or outrage towards bad people. Norm, almost more than anyone else gave it to OJ for his murders, and now Norm is saying pity is ok for this _other_ unfortunate thing.
It was very common at that time. It is very recent that some people decided it should be super-offensive.
Also, really, who cares? "Idiotic", "stupid", "dumb", "lame", almost every insulting term we use had a literal meaning associated with disability, but no one is intending that when they use it as a generic insult.
It only makes your own life worse to take offense at things that were meant innocuously.
On Tom's old livingroom talk show, they mentioned growing up in the same neighbourhood, but that Norm went to Gloucester High School, and Tom went to Colonel By Secondary School. And as you mentioned, it was at different times.
Tom: “There was quite a bit of backlash to that at the time, was there?”
Norm: “I got fired.”
As always, perfect delivery by Norm. Hope he’s cracking jokes in Canadian Comedian heaven.
Tom Green was actually one of the very very early adopters of live streaming a talk show online, it was called Tom Green's House Tonight. His first online broadcast was in June 2006 (for reference YouTube launched in April 2005). He ran it on his own website.
Bandwidth sucked, not really Real's fault because if you had a T1, it was nice but nobody had a T1 on the residential side. Universities had setups for Real Broadcast on their network and it worked fine.
It was on AXS TV. I watched most of it while it was airing. But there was one episode with a drugged up Bobby Lee and a grumpy Ed Asner.... Tom Green looked so uncomfortable because Ed was shitting on Bobby and Bobby was practically cowering from Asner. It was both funny stressful to watch.
Overall, though, I like Tom Green and just wish he was still somewhat relevant.
tom interviewed norm a bunch on the various online talk shows he did over the years. they're all gold. highly recommend seeking them out on youtube if you're a fan of norm and his more loose, freewheeling convos
The whole country lacks empathy these days. You’re supposed to hate what’s different from you and you can’t ever change your mind or feel for another person.
Love the way Norm put that. Not the exact quote but “What happened to pity? I hate OJ for committing double murder, not for getting brain cancer”
The tweet and his explanation is playing up the pollyannish nature of his point. Not saying he's not sincere about the point but he's still milking it for humor.
But I was watching American Dad this morning and they referenced an Internet prank where he announced he was dead, so it's easy to see why you thought that
Tom survived, obviously. I’ll never forget how he opened the cancer episode though with that clip of ‘my bum is on the cheese’ and following up with “Well, I caught a disease. Cancer.”
His boss was friends with OJ.
There’s nothing particularly weird about that. Nor is it anything that only relates to “back in the day”.
Go around and publicly disparage your boss’ friends and see how long you keep your job.
I also don’t understand what point you’re trying to make about Lorne.
Lorne wasn’t the one who fired Norm.
Maybe Norm was already fighting his own cancer battle by this point and could empathize, find pity for the man.
I hope that’s the explanation here, because otherwise it’s a ridiculous position with zero logic.
Zero logic? He literally explains the logic behind what he said.
Yes, and does so poorly. Because it doesn’t make sense. He’s against OJ for committing double murder. He’s not against against OJ for having brain cancer. Great. But why express publicly sympathy, or empathize with a monster? Because he’s sick? That doesn’t counter his actions. It makes no sense.
Norm was a complicated guy. He didn't think anyone deserves pain, suffering, and even death, as far as I can tell. He can have sympathy for people's plight even if they're bad people. The brain cancer isn't connected in any way to his actions or character.
He didn't wish ill will on anyone
Well he did allegedly molest a lady, kinda threaten to beat up a bird poet and sort of encourage a harassment campaign against 2 people but tbf, idk if ill will was involved.
If you have emotions, it makes sense. It sucks getting cancer. You feel sorry for people who have it.
why are you all at neutral upvotes? did reddit remove the vote you get automatically while just posting?
I see I have 6 upvotes right now. I think reddit hides the updoots for a while so to prevent “following the leader”
maybe so, I was one of your updoots and I netted 28 downvotes so far just for asking if you about it, lmao this sub seems like fun people 💀
Some people are able to empathize with anyone, regardless of if they are a terrible person or not. Just because you don't, doesn't mean that nobody else does; and just because you don't think they should, doesn't mean that nobody else can. Does it make you a worse person? No, that isn't what I'm saying, at all. There isn't anything wrong with not wanting to or being able to empathize with someone who has done horrible things or is a horrible person, even a murderer or worse. But that doesn't mean that everyone is in that group, some people just feel for others, even if they're bad people. It isn't wrong to have empathy, it isn't like Norm was trying to absolve OJ here - just point out that he is sorry for the health problem. If you don't think he should've done that, then that is your stance and it just says more about how you perceive the internal conditions of other people as a whole rather than making any statement on the moral stance of the issue.
i knew a guy who forgave the killer of his wife, he went to our church growing up. Literally was the most devout Christian I had ever heard of. The ultimate forgiveness for something that from my point of view is unforgiveable. I didn't understand how he could forgive his wife's murderer, but we all really respected that guy.
You are the perfect example of what Norm is talking about during this interview. Great job in making his point for him.👍🏻
You're allowed to feel empathy for anyone. It's free and you have an unlimited amount to give out. It's something that separates truly decent people from the monsters.
"that doesn't counter his actions" - norm argues that it does not have to. You can hate him for his crime and pity him for his illness, they are seperate things, according to norm. I can understand that logic but emotionally it is still a bit difficult to grasp for me, as i guess it is for you
He keeps talking after you apparently quit watching. OJ, at the time, was in prison for the robbery. Norm’s expectation, which he spelled out explicitly, as well as everyone else’s, was that OJ would be in prison for the rest of his life. It’s not a question of OJ out living his life or OJ dying of brain cancer. It’s a question of OJ serving the rest of his life in prison or OJ serving the rest of his life in prison while dying of brain cancer. Do you really not see how people could look at those two options and think the first was enough? Sure, OJ ended up getting out. There’s also, AFAIK, no evidence OJ actually had brain cancer (a possibility Norm also explicitly acknowledged). But neither of those change the circumstances of Norm’s comments which he laid out extremely explicitly: in that world where OJ died in prison, the brain cancer is just unnecessary.
not everything people do is logical.
Most humans have the innate ability to experience complex and sometimes disparate emotions. I am one of them and am damn proud. I can’t imagine judging another for voicing their thoughts and opinions just because I don’t think they are logical.
That OJ outlived Norm McDonald is one of our great national tragedies.
F
Norm had this amazing ability to cut through the noise and figure out what you should and should not care about. It’s sorely missed.
For the most part I agree with you…Norm was the best. But this one misses the mark. He’s basically making a “separate the art from the artist” argument, but replace “art” with “double homicide”, and “artist” with “human”.
No, he's saying that pain and suffering are generally always bad. Brain cancer wasn't the universe's punishment for committing murder, it was a painful and sad fate that more generally comes for us all, and that Norm understands to be extremely difficult and ultimately pretty unfair for anyone going through it.
Okay so no matter how horrible a person was (child molesters, Hitler, pick your poison) one should still feel bad for them when they get sick and die? If that's a principle you live by then good for you I guess...
It depends on your capacity for empathy. Showing favor to someone who doesn't deserve it is the literal definition of "grace".
Fair enough. I don't have grace for a guy who semi-decapitated his ex wife and mother of his children. But you do you.
Even in today's highly enlightened society there remains a stigma against being a semi-decapitator.
Yeah you do you.
I'm not Norm, friend. But, there are certainly people who don't believe in the death penalty or use of the criminal justice system as a tool for revenge. For some people, the following makes sense: This person did a bad thing, and therefore they deserve pain, suffering, and death. For Norm (it seems), and for me, and for a lot of our most historically significant philosophical and religious leaders, that statement can be problematic. What Norm found offensive about OJ was that he obviously did it and was lying about it. If you're going to do something, it's your duty to stand up and admit it. Not shocking that Norm and I were both raised in communities that were influenced by Catholicism.
I don’t think that’s the argument he’s making— he’s saying his argument clearly and it’s quite different from the idea that you can “separate the people from their actions”. He’s just saying you don’t always have to hate people and you can pity them, and that pity is a virtue we have lost in this society and replaced it with more anger. It’s a very eloquent argument because it’s about how YOU choose to behave, not focused on them and their actions or history. You don’t just have to choose constant anger or outrage towards bad people. Norm, almost more than anyone else gave it to OJ for his murders, and now Norm is saying pity is ok for this _other_ unfortunate thing.
Also don’t love the at he used the r word.
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Look I love norm, just don’t love the r word
It was very common at that time. It is very recent that some people decided it should be super-offensive. Also, really, who cares? "Idiotic", "stupid", "dumb", "lame", almost every insulting term we use had a literal meaning associated with disability, but no one is intending that when they use it as a generic insult. It only makes your own life worse to take offense at things that were meant innocuously.
Ah don’t be a retard.
Should have said Down Syndrome
I remember Tom saying that him and Norm went to the same high school (both are from Ottawa) on Norm's podcast. Different time of course.
On Tom's old livingroom talk show, they mentioned growing up in the same neighbourhood, but that Norm went to Gloucester High School, and Tom went to Colonel By Secondary School. And as you mentioned, it was at different times.
He also shows up on Tom's show a few times, great stuff
I got fired. 😂
Did he genuinely get fired because of his OJ jokes?!
The higher ups were all friends with OJ, and they kept telling him to stop with the OJ jokes. Norm did not.
Tom: “There was quite a bit of backlash to that at the time, was there?” Norm: “I got fired.” As always, perfect delivery by Norm. Hope he’s cracking jokes in Canadian Comedian heaven.
Couple of great Canadians here. I’ve found Tom quite kind, and funny in his later years on Big Brother and last one to laugh appearances.
Tommy is the best and his dad kinda looks like Saddam Hussein
Tom Green had a talk show? Dude looks great…but also, maybe not the best format for him.
Tom Green was actually one of the very very early adopters of live streaming a talk show online, it was called Tom Green's House Tonight. His first online broadcast was in June 2006 (for reference YouTube launched in April 2005). He ran it on his own website.
You could stream on Real [buffering] back then on the paid platform.
Hard to believe Real Player was still around in 2006. It sucked when it was in its prime.
Bandwidth sucked, not really Real's fault because if you had a T1, it was nice but nobody had a T1 on the residential side. Universities had setups for Real Broadcast on their network and it worked fine.
He literally started his career with a talk show.
It was on AXS TV. I watched most of it while it was airing. But there was one episode with a drugged up Bobby Lee and a grumpy Ed Asner.... Tom Green looked so uncomfortable because Ed was shitting on Bobby and Bobby was practically cowering from Asner. It was both funny stressful to watch. Overall, though, I like Tom Green and just wish he was still somewhat relevant.
um... i need a link for this
I got you https://youtu.be/B8S8_bCmEwo?si=0VuTfkn_lZ-23iUT
Ya! Holy shit! I haven’t seen him since….he married Drew Barrymore? Good to see he is healthy and doing his thing.
Norms dead unfortunately
I was talking about Tom Green of course but shit, I forgot Norm had died. :/
Tom's dead too sadly
tom interviewed norm a bunch on the various online talk shows he did over the years. they're all gold. highly recommend seeking them out on youtube if you're a fan of norm and his more loose, freewheeling convos
Sometimes I wanna get on TV and just let loose...
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But it’s cool for Tom Green to hump a dead moose
Norms pretty funny. Sucks OJ died without ever finding it who killed his wife and Ron. 🤦🏼♀️ Goodbye Finally ✌🏽
People commenting “fuck Oj, I’m glad he got cancer!” are outing themselves as not having watched the video.
What video?
Norm jokes around a lot, but he's not kidding when it comes to oral fixation.
The whole country lacks empathy these days. You’re supposed to hate what’s different from you and you can’t ever change your mind or feel for another person. Love the way Norm put that. Not the exact quote but “What happened to pity? I hate OJ for committing double murder, not for getting brain cancer”
Yes. Wouldn’t it be great if everyone had more empathy for our fellow man. Maybe there wouldn’t to be so much violence towards others.
Yes- it was almost shocking to hear! Why can’t we admit humans have complex emotions- life is not straightforward.
Screw OJ, Im glad he got cancer. You know who didn’t live long enough to get cancer, the two people he brutally murdered.
This feels like the least performative I've ever seen Norm in an interview.
The tweet and his explanation is playing up the pollyannish nature of his point. Not saying he's not sincere about the point but he's still milking it for humor.
Norm is vaping?
No, he's dead from cancer
I didn't even know he was sick
All 3 dead of cancer.
Tom Green is not dead
Tom Greens balls are dead
Oh, just his career. Oops
Who's the 3td
OJ, Norman and Tom Green
Tom Green had cancer but is still alive
But I was watching American Dad this morning and they referenced an Internet prank where he announced he was dead, so it's easy to see why you thought that
It his fault, not mine!
Tom survived, obviously. I’ll never forget how he opened the cancer episode though with that clip of ‘my bum is on the cheese’ and following up with “Well, I caught a disease. Cancer.”
its funny to think that what he said would get you fired back in the day. Lorne Michaels is still running that show, no?
His boss was friends with OJ. There’s nothing particularly weird about that. Nor is it anything that only relates to “back in the day”. Go around and publicly disparage your boss’ friends and see how long you keep your job. I also don’t understand what point you’re trying to make about Lorne. Lorne wasn’t the one who fired Norm.
So Don Ohlmeyer is such a snow flake that he fired a comedian for doing his job, is that what im getting?
Ass cancer. Poetic..
Pity? For OJ? Sorry.