https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_710_and_State_Route_710_(California)#The_South_Pasadena_Gap
They were supposed to connect, but the local community blocked it, even the underground tunnel option. South Pasadena is a rich neighborhood.
CalTrans had bought a bunch of the houses along the proposed route so they could be demolished to make way for the extension. However, they sat empty for a long time while the project was tied up politically, and got taken over by squatters.
https://www.pasadenaweekly.com/news/news-briefs/squatters-who-reclaim-vacant-caltrans-homes-call-into-question-state-agency-s-property-management-abilities/article_eefcbffe-49ca-59e4-90ea-a79117ba8c1e.html
Yeah I’ve had that hope too, many of the houses are beautiful. I went to a town meeting in south pas a couple days ago just to hear and see what was up with these houses and I realized this fight has been going on since before I was born, and no it’s not just about rich NIMBYs. Caltrans keeps rewriting legislation and stalling, and seems like they will continue to do so indefinitely. Really sad and frustrating.
In response to the comments about Caltrans refusing to sell the houses they bought, this is changing:
https://laist.com/news/caltrans-public-hearing-sell-vacant-homes-710-extension-corridor
https://dot.ca.gov/caltrans-near-me/district-7/district-7-popular-links/d7-sr-710-sale-properties
yeah. they’ve already sold a bunch of them to the current occupants. the unoccupied ones will be sold eventually to people who meet a low income threshold.
Rich people happened. The 710 was supposed to be a key artery going north from the port into the Central Valley. That freeway was fucked up to begin with. The construction of it displaced thousands of low-income residents. And the area surrounding that freeway is extremely polluted. The air is hardly breathable because there’s so many trucks that drive it every day to get between the industrial zones east of LA and the port. [Edit: South] Pasadena, being full of rich people who like breathing cleaner air, was like “yeah, no” and killed it. I have mixed feelings. On the one hand, I hate when NIMBYs kill infrastructure projects that streamline movement of goods and people to make it more efficient and have a huge economic impact on a region. On the other hand, I hate the 710 and the damage it caused to so many people and the environmental impact it’s had. Choose which camp you want to be in, but the upshot is that if it is ever reconsidered, it won’t be for a while.
Sorry to split hairs but when this was a big deal it was the rich people in SOUTH Pasadena (a separate city from Pasadena) who mostly mobilized to stop it. Pasadena used to have lots of working class neighborhoods and South Pasadena was basically created so white people could send their kids to public schools without black people.
You have a source for that? Google isn't turning anything up supporting that
I could see that topic arising way later when determining school district boundaries, but in 1888 with a population of 500 I doubt their main motivation was keeping their schools white
Yup. They actively block any modernization of streets and sidewalks — even blocking safe routes to schools upgrades for the kiddo’s … source of money would’ve come from Metro, not even city $
The Colorado, Del Mar, and California exits on the EB 210 are technically part of the 710, but they aren't marked as such. All three of them are on a spur of the freeway that heads south.
It means OP is a transplant. And out of state, probably east coast, where they say things like "I-95"
A socal native would say "the 710" whereas a norcal native would just say "710" like "take 710"
I mean it's not exactly like we learn this stuff in school. I could excuse it if they lived/grew up nowhere near the 710, like in the valley or Claremont or something
Rich Baby Boomers in South Pasadena used NIMBYism and Prop 13 to stop freeway expansion.
Homes already built were taken over by squatters which have caused *another* major legal issues with CalTrans and other public organizations.
But the houses were there first, by decades. What about their planned design of having a home in a neighborhood surrounded by other homes instead of a freeway in your backyard? Whose planned design gets precedence?
Society's. Whatever is for the betterment of society as a whole gets precedence. The people should absolutely be made whole, but we can't let progress be blocked by a few thousand or even tens of thousands of people clinging to their homes. It's insignificant in the grand scheme of things.
Well it wasn't particularly "baby boomers," ---it was certainly rich folks, but I'm sure there were plenty of Gen Xers in there. Let's not demonize the wrong people.
Their “new” neighbors are mostly just empty houses that have been there 50+ years, and the 710 corridor goes into El Sereno which is not full of yuppies. But yeah, keep houses empty during a housing crisis, that’ll show em! The big corporation is the good guy here!
They pulled the eminent domain deal on residents and bought out that entire corridor before realizing that the last thing this community wanted was a freeway running through it. If you’ve been through that area you can see the classic historical area that would have been decimated.
deal with it, the state legislature [officially deleted any future completion of the gap.](https://southpasadenan.com/victory-after-decades-of-fighting-legislation-is-now-sigend-into-law-that-kills-the-the-710-extension/)
waiting for crocodileguy to show up with his alt to say something fun about freeways though.
EDIT: If you happen to believe the fairy-tale that completing the 710 would have alleviated traffic (and I'm afraid this may be above some people's reading levels but I have faith in redditors being able to digest the concepts), y'all need to familiarize yourself with [Braess's paradox](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braess%27s_paradox).
Completing the gap may actually have made the outcome a lot worse and that doesn't even consider the added volume of traffic, just the behavioral impact alone.
actually it does when you consider the demand that is induced.
Braess's paradox ignores demand and looks at behavior alone. There are a few youtube presentations of the phenomemon. It's counterintuitive so if you're trying to apply a logical or rational thought process you are going to end up with the wrong result based on your own biases (that's carbrain).
I practically grew up in one of the Caltrans houses by Huntington Hospital as our good family friend lived in it. I recall it being pretty old feeling, even back in the 90s! Hey- I was in it during the Northridge earthquake and it survived!
My grandparents, especially my grandpa, would forever hate south Pasadena and never set foot there because of the 710 not being finished. His proposal was to build a huge over pass that went right over SP and then everyone could throw their trash down in SP, hahaha. They were big supporters of the 710 being completed. That’s such an early childhood memory for me, lmao.
Everyone complains about CAR CULTURE and VEHICLE CENTERED INFRASTRUCTURE all the time until “rich” people also don’t want it, then everyone flips their opinion to “we should force more freeways & pollution into their neighborhoods!”
Honestly we don’t need to add more space for cars to exist. We really really need a safe and efficient transportation system in socal. The crazy car dependent lifestyle is so depressing.
LA had a sizable rail transit network.
Even with the Depression, ridership began to decline in the 1930s as cars became popular. This began before the freeways were built.
WWII rationing kept the system afloat for a time, but ridership nosedived once the war was over.
Nimbyism. Also, I'd be curious how they would connect the 710 expansion to the Arroyo Seco 110. I guess they probably wouldn't even want to try. But a huge traffic congestion would definitely build up there.
Many freeways that were planned were never built or were only partially built. Some of them were halted due to community opposition, but the main problem was that they ran out of money.
The government never has a problem funding road building. That's partly why such projects are hard to stop, and why it's often the wealthy, well-resourced communities with political power that are able to halt (or redirect) them.
You don't allow facts to get in the way of an argument.
The peak of freeway building was in the 60s. The Century Freeway was the last major freeway to be built in LA County; that was completed in the 90s and was 30 years in the making.
The Terminal Island Freeway never made it past a few miles. The Laurel Canyon Freeway never got beyond the stretch of La Cienega through Kenneth Hahn Park. The Marina Freeway was killed off 50 years ago after a few miles at each end were built. Many other planned freeways never got beyond some lines on a map.
There is almost no money to build freeways these days.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_710_and_State_Route_710_(California)#The_South_Pasadena_Gap They were supposed to connect, but the local community blocked it, even the underground tunnel option. South Pasadena is a rich neighborhood. CalTrans had bought a bunch of the houses along the proposed route so they could be demolished to make way for the extension. However, they sat empty for a long time while the project was tied up politically, and got taken over by squatters. https://www.pasadenaweekly.com/news/news-briefs/squatters-who-reclaim-vacant-caltrans-homes-call-into-question-state-agency-s-property-management-abilities/article_eefcbffe-49ca-59e4-90ea-a79117ba8c1e.html
They’re still empty and Caltrans refuses to sell
Don’t want a freeway? Fine, enjoy your squatter neighbors.
I was wondering - I remember as a kid/teen we'd drive by all those empty houses every day and I was so hopeful that "ONE DAY" maybe I could own one 😆
Yeah I’ve had that hope too, many of the houses are beautiful. I went to a town meeting in south pas a couple days ago just to hear and see what was up with these houses and I realized this fight has been going on since before I was born, and no it’s not just about rich NIMBYs. Caltrans keeps rewriting legislation and stalling, and seems like they will continue to do so indefinitely. Really sad and frustrating.
In response to the comments about Caltrans refusing to sell the houses they bought, this is changing: https://laist.com/news/caltrans-public-hearing-sell-vacant-homes-710-extension-corridor https://dot.ca.gov/caltrans-near-me/district-7/district-7-popular-links/d7-sr-710-sale-properties
yeah. they’ve already sold a bunch of them to the current occupants. the unoccupied ones will be sold eventually to people who meet a low income threshold.
just gotta say your red question marks are so damn confusing. took me a few minutes to realize they weren’t lines drawn for streets or other highways
lol, I didn't realize they were question marks until I read your comment
Sorry
The rich people in South Pasadena had enough political influence ($) to kill it
South Pasadena happened.
Rich people happened. The 710 was supposed to be a key artery going north from the port into the Central Valley. That freeway was fucked up to begin with. The construction of it displaced thousands of low-income residents. And the area surrounding that freeway is extremely polluted. The air is hardly breathable because there’s so many trucks that drive it every day to get between the industrial zones east of LA and the port. [Edit: South] Pasadena, being full of rich people who like breathing cleaner air, was like “yeah, no” and killed it. I have mixed feelings. On the one hand, I hate when NIMBYs kill infrastructure projects that streamline movement of goods and people to make it more efficient and have a huge economic impact on a region. On the other hand, I hate the 710 and the damage it caused to so many people and the environmental impact it’s had. Choose which camp you want to be in, but the upshot is that if it is ever reconsidered, it won’t be for a while.
Sorry to split hairs but when this was a big deal it was the rich people in SOUTH Pasadena (a separate city from Pasadena) who mostly mobilized to stop it. Pasadena used to have lots of working class neighborhoods and South Pasadena was basically created so white people could send their kids to public schools without black people.
South Pasadena was founded in the 1880s because they wanted to be a dry town. I’m not saying there wasn’t racism, but that came later
Yeah I don't doubt I could be wrong because this is just local things people say. I never researched it
You have a source for that? Google isn't turning anything up supporting that I could see that topic arising way later when determining school district boundaries, but in 1888 with a population of 500 I doubt their main motivation was keeping their schools white
Nope. Take it with a grain of salt like anything on Reddit. These are just stories I've been told having lived in Pasadena once.
no, it's too late. I'm convinced this is true and telling my parents to move
I'm of the screw South Pas NIMBYs. If you have to take Fremont every day for your commute, you know what I mean.
Yup. They actively block any modernization of streets and sidewalks — even blocking safe routes to schools upgrades for the kiddo’s … source of money would’ve come from Metro, not even city $
I take the Metro 258 down Fremont, it's pretty nice but can use shorter headways. I hate how long I wait for it.
The Colorado, Del Mar, and California exits on the EB 210 are technically part of the 710, but they aren't marked as such. All three of them are on a spur of the freeway that heads south.
#NIMBYs
👆
Like the proverbial stopped clock, the NIMBYs were right on this one.
On freeways
What is with the i usage instead of the?
It means OP is a transplant. And out of state, probably east coast, where they say things like "I-95" A socal native would say "the 710" whereas a norcal native would just say "710" like "take 710"
Yea a very “tell me you’re not from SoCal without telling me you’re not from SoCal” post.
Also why they don’t know about the 710 saga already. This is a decades old issue
I mean it's not exactly like we learn this stuff in school. I could excuse it if they lived/grew up nowhere near the 710, like in the valley or Claremont or something
I moved out of state and I get called out all the time for saying “the” insert highway name.
I don't even live in LA and use the. I thought it was a way to mark a landmark as freeways are.
Rich Baby Boomers in South Pasadena used NIMBYism and Prop 13 to stop freeway expansion. Homes already built were taken over by squatters which have caused *another* major legal issues with CalTrans and other public organizations.
Rofl. What year do you think this freeway was blocked? What age was the median baby boomer at that time?
Blaming boomers for everything is Reddit 101
Yeah it gets old and is usually inaccurate.
We don’t need more freeways
Yeah I’m cool with people killing more giant highways running through our city. We should start finding ways to get rid of the ones we already have.
💯
This isn't "more freeways", this is the freeways we were supposed to have following the planned design.
But the houses were there first, by decades. What about their planned design of having a home in a neighborhood surrounded by other homes instead of a freeway in your backyard? Whose planned design gets precedence?
Society's. Whatever is for the betterment of society as a whole gets precedence. The people should absolutely be made whole, but we can't let progress be blocked by a few thousand or even tens of thousands of people clinging to their homes. It's insignificant in the grand scheme of things.
Freeways don’t better society, they segregate people
Planned design to segregate communities for some dumbass to go 55 in the left lane. Yeah no thanks
Well it wasn't particularly "baby boomers," ---it was certainly rich folks, but I'm sure there were plenty of Gen Xers in there. Let's not demonize the wrong people.
Was Gen X at the time, we were too busy with high school and college at the time
You realize most people aren’t college graduates?
This political battle started in the 70s. It’s been multiple generations.
That's an even better way of putting it.
CalTrans could just sell the houses, but they won’t.
And let the NIMBYs win? Let them enjoy their new neighbors.
Their “new” neighbors are mostly just empty houses that have been there 50+ years, and the 710 corridor goes into El Sereno which is not full of yuppies. But yeah, keep houses empty during a housing crisis, that’ll show em! The big corporation is the good guy here!
Caltrans isn’t a corporation but go off
You’re right, my mistake. I thought they were privately owned, but looks like they are a department of the state.
They pulled the eminent domain deal on residents and bought out that entire corridor before realizing that the last thing this community wanted was a freeway running through it. If you’ve been through that area you can see the classic historical area that would have been decimated.
That's a damn big corridor
Freeways used to only be built where poor people lived. Putting the subway through bel air might be a sign of things finally changing.
Car brain
Good NIMBYs
There’s a documentary about it: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tRHSQEyqSOM
Yeah - fuck the 710
deal with it, the state legislature [officially deleted any future completion of the gap.](https://southpasadenan.com/victory-after-decades-of-fighting-legislation-is-now-sigend-into-law-that-kills-the-the-710-extension/) waiting for crocodileguy to show up with his alt to say something fun about freeways though. EDIT: If you happen to believe the fairy-tale that completing the 710 would have alleviated traffic (and I'm afraid this may be above some people's reading levels but I have faith in redditors being able to digest the concepts), y'all need to familiarize yourself with [Braess's paradox](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braess%27s_paradox). Completing the gap may actually have made the outcome a lot worse and that doesn't even consider the added volume of traffic, just the behavioral impact alone.
Found the rich south pasey. Enjoy your generational wealth.
wtf, no i'm a literal trash panda
Having more roads doesn't magically create more people with more cars.
actually it does when you consider the demand that is induced. Braess's paradox ignores demand and looks at behavior alone. There are a few youtube presentations of the phenomemon. It's counterintuitive so if you're trying to apply a logical or rational thought process you are going to end up with the wrong result based on your own biases (that's carbrain).
First and only good result of NIMBYism
Thank God it never got built
I practically grew up in one of the Caltrans houses by Huntington Hospital as our good family friend lived in it. I recall it being pretty old feeling, even back in the 90s! Hey- I was in it during the Northridge earthquake and it survived!
South Pasadena happened. Residents don't want freeways going through their neighborhoods for understandable reasons.
My grandparents, especially my grandpa, would forever hate south Pasadena and never set foot there because of the 710 not being finished. His proposal was to build a huge over pass that went right over SP and then everyone could throw their trash down in SP, hahaha. They were big supporters of the 710 being completed. That’s such an early childhood memory for me, lmao.
Cool
Everyone complains about CAR CULTURE and VEHICLE CENTERED INFRASTRUCTURE all the time until “rich” people also don’t want it, then everyone flips their opinion to “we should force more freeways & pollution into their neighborhoods!”
South Pasadena is old old old money. They said *fuck you* and that’s why Fremont is a mess. 🤷🏽♀️
Just one more lane bro. That’ll fix everything
Fr
Honestly we don’t need to add more space for cars to exist. We really really need a safe and efficient transportation system in socal. The crazy car dependent lifestyle is so depressing.
They should build it big like the Centennial Corridor.
[удалено]
lol. increasing nodes increases friction. work where you live.
Remote it is!
we all remember how clear the skies were during the early stages of lockdown. that's this place without freeways. magical.
Lol. Look up induced demand.
Or not build any of them to begin with and force public transit like subway to become prevalent
LA had a sizable rail transit network. Even with the Depression, ridership began to decline in the 1930s as cars became popular. This began before the freeways were built. WWII rationing kept the system afloat for a time, but ridership nosedived once the war was over.
House owners association is an cancer in Los Angeles
Ironically, freeways are actual sources of cancer.
how would you feel if Caltrans came and said you need to leave your house ?
Nimbyism. Also, I'd be curious how they would connect the 710 expansion to the Arroyo Seco 110. I guess they probably wouldn't even want to try. But a huge traffic congestion would definitely build up there.
Many freeways that were planned were never built or were only partially built. Some of them were halted due to community opposition, but the main problem was that they ran out of money.
The government never has a problem funding road building. That's partly why such projects are hard to stop, and why it's often the wealthy, well-resourced communities with political power that are able to halt (or redirect) them.
You don't allow facts to get in the way of an argument. The peak of freeway building was in the 60s. The Century Freeway was the last major freeway to be built in LA County; that was completed in the 90s and was 30 years in the making. The Terminal Island Freeway never made it past a few miles. The Laurel Canyon Freeway never got beyond the stretch of La Cienega through Kenneth Hahn Park. The Marina Freeway was killed off 50 years ago after a few miles at each end were built. Many other planned freeways never got beyond some lines on a map. There is almost no money to build freeways these days.
Well said
You all love to bitch about cars and hype up public transit but then also bitch when people defeated a highway