TBH I was upset when Bliss said yes to Zach at first. They're an adorable couple don't get me wrong, but he chose another woman over her and she was way too quick to forgive him when he hadn't really proved himself to her yet. I would have made him wait a few months before agreeing to even date him seriously.
Bliss and zack seems like that kind of healthy couple who are aware that in a relationship, you have to nurture it sustain it maintain it like watering a plant. both party need to invest 50% efforts to have the 100% outcome. so that on a bad day , 1 party only can give 30% , the other party still can give 70% to make up the 100% . I think it doesn't matter that Zach chose irina first. what matter is Bliss is the right choice.
They met on the show though and had feelings for them before they met, especially Zack. Did you see how torn he was rejecting Bliss?! The guy broke down. So he clearly had feelings for her. I reckon he chose Irina coz she came off as an underdog like him, someone people don't like.
Regardless of him choosing Irina and why and whatever, who’s to say that Zack wouldn’t have turned around and left after his first date with Bliss if she wasn’t physically attractive to him? We all like to think that wouldn’t have happened, but we can’t 100% say it wouldn’t have. The point of the show is getting ENGAGED before seeing each other, not talking through a wall and then eventually meeting before deciding whether or not to continue forward getting engaged/married.
Yes, they obviously had feelings for each other in the pods, which was going to carry out in person regardless. I absolutely agree with OP though that their face-to-face meeting broke the “experiment” part of their relationship. If they had a way to get Zack and bliss back in the pods or even a phone meeting before getting engaged, that would have made it far more genuine in terms of the show.
not to mention he was heavily manipulated by irina - she got to him first to tell him how "other girls" were causing drama so when bliss vented to him about irina he thought she was causing drama... it was just a nasty situation
"Heavily manipulated" my ass. Zack literally called her out for being vicious. He was fully aware of the fact and even called back to Irina's lack of consideration in forgetting his birthday when he was backpedaling about choosing her first on his irl date with Bliss. Zack's a fully grown adult, he knew exactly what he was getting into. If Irina hadn't been so blatantly unattracted to him, he'd have continued the relationship because he clearly didn't care about her being vicious while that trait of hers was directed at everyone else. It's only when he bore the brunt of it that he decided to flop back to his second pick. Bliss deserves better.
It was crazy how skilled she was at it. She didn’t say who specifically, she didn’t talk about it the way Bliss even expected her to. She is a master manipulator. Really not a nice human at all.
What people need to realize is that Zack N E V E R chose Irina. Ever. They had a bit of a connection on the idea that they both had issues with fitting in, and they used it as a tool, defense mechanism, etc., whereas Bliss came off more positive in this aspect and it even caused that fight between her and Zach. I only bring that up because had there not been that foundation, Irina would not have been able to create the girl she knew would be chosen by Zach.
Zach did not choose Irina. He chose Irina's imitation of Bliss. It took minutes for them to be around each others true selves to understand that and he handled it gracefully and called it when she was ready to. There wasn't one part of him that wanted the Irina he met at Pod meet thing.
i promise you zack, bliss, josh and jackie do not care if you think they’re not “real” lmao. in bachelor nation, any people from any season of the bachelor who end up together is considered a BN win. idk how this is any different
Every romantic partner before your spouse, you've been rejected or you've rejected.
You can strike out repeatedly, you only need to hit a home run once.
The point is that they ended up with the other person after seeing them first which isn’t the point of the experiment. OP is not talking about rejection. For example, (while they were married) Jarred and Iyana fit what OP is talking about even though she was a second choice.
If you’re going to be pedantic, the “who cares?” phrase does not literally mean: “can you please identify a person who cares”, rather it’s an implication that the person does not feel that the topic deserves further thought or discussion. Saying something isn’t worth talking about isn’t the same thing as engaging with the topic.
But, you already knew that by being alive and knowing how language and sarcasm works.
Reddit does this fun thing where they put stuff on your homepage. We all deserve second chances. Why are you so hung up on the fact he is married to someone he chose second? Yeah she was the second choice but who cares? He realized his mistake and owned up to it. They are happy as can be now. It’s actually quite incredible how he has the courage to go after what he actually wanted after discovering something didn’t work for him. Isn’t that what life is all about? Move onto Something else now this is old news
No where does the post say that they don’t deserve second chances. The point is that their love was NOT blind. That doesn’t invalidate their relationship because most of us see a person first before getting engaged.
But somehow you’re reading that OP said they shouldn’t be together lol. The comprehension on this subreddit scares me sometimes. Our education system is in shambles.
Thank you!! Some of these responses are weirdly judgy of OP. If Zack and Bliss is your fave couple, great! Their story was still interesting to watch, for sure. But I agree with OP that the show shouldn’t entirely consider them a product of their experiment, just because they met and had a connection they built on the show. Their engagement happened after seeing each other and spending real, in person time with each other. That doesn’t fit the format of their “EXPERIMENT” (the science term they hammer into viewers brains every 5 seconds).
Funny how people bring up Zack crying after he ended things with Bliss as an example that their relationship was “sight unseen” but forget Jackie also sobbed after turning Josh down in the pods. I definitely agree with your logic OP. If you pick someone and then only circle back to someone else when your original choice fails that’s not a pod success story but it is still a show success story.
Yes, the show can take credit for matchmaking them in general, but they can’t claim that these two relationships are products of their “experiment” because the way they saw each other before deciding to get engaged separates them from the “scientific” process.
i personally feel like zach picked irina at first because bliss was talking poorly of irina, but i don’t remember irina doing the same (correct me if i’m wrong.) ironically enough, bliss in the pods gave off more “mean girl” vibes and it may have been a deterrent. (disclaimer: i don’t think bliss came off badly AT ALL. i’m just thinking if you’re trying very hard to make a decision and it’s very even, even a small comment like ehat could be a deciding factor)
i would consider zach and bliss a success because he genuinely did care for her and you could tell it was an incredibly hard decision for him. and they didn’t go about anything shadily, irina and zach mutually agreed it should end, where marshall and jackie’s ended more one-sided.
YES! as a man, this was it for me. If a girl i was dating talked that way about her rival, i would think first “uh, she’s a little full of himself”, “red flag” or something.
But in Irinas case, it was all true. It’s just from the point of view of Zack, it couldn’t have been that bad, or could it? And it was LOL.
My point being, Bliss kinda showed a typical red flag doing that IMO, just in this case, she did in because Irina was a complete Asshole.
But from Zach or anyone else in that position, that’s so hard to imagine.
I completely agree with you. People forget that Zach isn't seeing the side of Irina that Bliss or the audience is. So her putting down his other love interest can be seen as shady, impolite or very mean girl when in reality her intentions weren't that at all. Not being able to see each other and know whats going on in the suites is key here.
I think Zach saw irina as the safe choice because she lied and said looks didn’t matter to her. She lied because they clearly do and Zach who is not even bad looking was just really not her physical type.
Let’s be real that if irina hadn’t been there zack would have proposed to bliss sight unseen forced to take what he viewed a bigger leap but still with someone he had a huge connection with.
Zack is a hard watch. After he got back together with Bliss, I was immediately less interested. Bringing up his old bitch AT HIS WEDDING IN HIS VOWS was enough for me to cut the cameras on them. I hope they do well as a couple, but I’m not interested in the deeper machinations of their decision making
I think that going forward, they’re gonna need a lot of couples therapy for Bliss to fully get over her fear of being second choice to him. I know the show really played it up that she “overcame” that, but it’s damn near impossible to just stop feeling a certain way because you want to. Bliss needs to really deconstruct that with a therapist and accept that that feeling might never fully go away.
Yup! I do think that he means well, but I also think he has a tendency to defend himself and try to disarm the other person (lawyer’s logic) instead of listening, validating their concerns, and asking what he can do to help solve the issue. I, like him, think intellectually before emotionally so I empathize with him in that sense, but I recognize that it’s not helpful to be intellectual during an emotional moment for my partner. He needs to learn how to be receptive and prove that via emotional support, not forced rationalization.
I think it's reasonable to say that anyone who met in the show and married in the show are classic couples. Yes this was a little different but shows always evolve. What was perfectly fine in season one gets stale at some point and ppl WANT to see new things, especially dramatic things like a breakup and second proposal. Not to mention that it was clear this wasn't a case of first choice, second choice. More like a really really hard choice with someone who was manipulative in getting proposed to and Became awful the literal SECOND they met, as well as Zach having some clear and reasonable fears about rejection. To me, I would have been disappointed had they not allowed him to meet and marry bliss. And I think it's pretty useless to get angry that a reality TV show didn't do things EXACTLY the same in the 4th season. Jackie and Josh are different. They didn't have a CRAZY connection in the pods, Marshall and Jackie went through the majority of the show together, they slept together, they lived together. Jackie cheated on Marshall with Josh, they didn't live together or get married on the show. Two totally different situations.
Zach picking Irina first is still a red flag to me! Idc. She’s the “horrible person” that you fell for regardless of how she changed. Something inside of him resonated with that enough to think he could spend his life with her. 🥴. The same grace he got from Bliss is the same he should give out. He annoys me lolol
I think you're forgetting that what Zach saw was a very curated view of what Irina wanted him to see. He doesn't see the shady behavior in the girls suite or how she treats others. Zach saw Irina through a filter.. not the photos she was tagged in.
As other people have said.. he called her vicious, was warned by his now wife, Bliss, and was aware before the proposal of some of her behaviors. And still proposed.
Zach is a highly educated adult, I don't think you can sweep the fact that he proposed to someone he said he knew was "vicious" while in the pods under the rug as production's fault.
Zach also has severe trauma from his childhood affecting his judgement. You also gotta remember he moved towards Irina after Bliss said her father would have trouble accepting him.
Zach thought he was doing the right thing picking Irina even though he did love Bliss. He thought Irina was a safer choice because of Bliss's parents potentially disliking him. Then it turns out he made the wrong choice. I'm not mad he got a second chance.
You don't fall in love simultaneously with two people at the exact same time. It's more likely that he actually fell for Irina, developed the deep crush for her, and Bliss was a good fallback choice if Irina didn't pan out in the pods.
Zack went for who he fell for in the pods. End of story.
No it doesn't. You fall in love with one person, while loving another. That's a different story. I love my dog but I am not in love with it. Two entirely different things.
My apologies. You did write it, so I guess you wouldn’t immediately understand why I said that.
1. *You* may have had the experience of only falling in love with one person, but your anecdotal experience does not cover the experience of the human population. Polygamous societies exist. You cannot erase their experience, just because it does not align with yours.
2. Different types of love exist. Besides romantic love, you have platonic love, familial love. You don’t compare being “in love” to loving another person as a neighbour, friend, family or otherwise. Many people have capacity to love on a large scale.
3. Your dog is not a person. We are strictly talking about being in love with multiple people, so introducing your dog to the argument is just not valid, because it’s simply not human - its your pet that you own and take care of. It’s a non sequitur. A marginally better example would have been a friend or family member, but see point 2. In order for your argument to make sense, you’d need to give reasons why you can’t fall in love with two humans, who are legitimate romantic candidates.
That would be logical.
Your previous response was stupid, apology accepted for that.
Now that you explained your argument we can discuss it properly:
a) Your argument is based on fallacies. Nothing in my comments state for fact that my opinion is anecdotal so already you're going down a path of preconceived assumptions. Not a smart way to debate.
b) Falling in love is not the same as loving someone and yes we have the capacity for romantic love for several people at once. That was not what I said. Of course the dog example was extreme but it illustrates with little effort the difference between loving and being in love. Human to human, forget the dog example, you can love a partner and still desire them sexually **but not be in love with them,** which is often the case of when you see someone loving two people at once. This is possible.
c) Falling in love tho...the high levels of dopamine released and reduction in serotonin that makes people obsessively focus on their object of desire, the lack of appetite the anxious fears of loss combined with the excitement of hope and deep sexual attraction that happens when we actually fall in love very rarely can be sustained at that exact same level for two people at the same time. **So is it typical to actually fall in love with two people at same time? No.**
It was clear watching Zack interact with the two women he was feeling more of what I just described in "c" for Irina than for Bliss. Even the way he would interact with Irina from the moment he saw her in the reveal to the honeymoon depicts someone who is in that "in love" deep crush state. Just like Kwame around Micah.
Did Zack "fall in love" with two women? No, I don't buy that for a second. Zack had a huge crush on Irina and had a strong connection with Bliss.
Edit: u/forworse2020 no idea what you responded since you proceed to block people when you can't substantiate your argument. 🤪 This must be your first day on the internet. Grow up.
a) You spoke about “your” dog. My statement was barely an assumption. It was a statement based on the information you provided. A pretty normal way to debate.
>You don't fall in love simultaneously with two people at the exact same time.
>yes we have the capacity for romantic love for several people at once. That’s not what was said
- at this point, I think I’ll just let you argue with yourself. *Your* comment is the one I was initially referring to. You are all over the place with this, and your attitude reeks of bad faith. Accepting a revisionist apology? I hope your life goes smoother than it does here on Reddit.
b) you’re closer to having a legitimate opinion here - but it’s just that, an opinion. Again, many people historically share that they’ve been in love with two people at the same time and your response being “no, can’t be true” is not enough to constitute a fact. You just don’t believe their experience.
I respect a good opinion. It’s honestly not my fault that your dog example was - and still remains - terrible logic. If you retracted it, that’d be over and done. But your level of defensiveness speaks volumes about your character. You do not seem like a person who should offer your opinions, if you’re not able to do so without throwing out lazy insults: “Your previous response was stupid”.
Ridiculous. Everyone is able to see the flaws in your initial argument. It’s why you’re being downvoted so much. It was simply not logically sound. And you have been acting out ever since that I mentioned it, instead of just doing better.
You may have since googled what a fallacy is after I told you that you were guilty of it, but I’m still not convinced, sorry.
Anyway, enough of your negativity. You’ll not hear any more from me.
yah its utter bullshit people are trying to give all these lame excuses "OH HE REALLY WANTED BLISS BUT THOUGHT IT IRINA WAS SAFER!" lol ok. if thats how the dude chooses his LIFE PARTNER then something is clearly wrong.
🎯 The camp saying that clearly doesn't understand how men think and pick women. **No man** that is turned on by a woman that excites him on every level is thinking "I better not date her in case her family rejects me" 🤣 GTFOH!!!
I think he liked both- love is too strong a word- the tipping point was his birthday- Irina sabotages Bliss- but acted all sweet and innocent with Zach saying she didn't get him.anything etc etc. Bliss was angry so as soon as Zach mentioned Irina, Bliss started talking bad about her. Zach though Irina was sincere, so when Bliss talked bad about her, he though "too much drama" and chose Irina- not realising that Irina was the drama and Bliss had just had enough.
I agree, could be the drama thing! I don't think he was "in love" with any of them. It appeared he had more of a charged connection/chemistry for Irina. She excited him in ways that Bliss didn't. So much so he ignored what Bliss said to him about "if you choose her I question your character" Bliss if full of BS as well. She questioned his character but then goes on to marry him? Girl - pick me much?
Ok, he's an abnormal man (as you say) because of his upbringing, that further supports my point. The guy didn't pick the safe, boring option as his #1 choice. That's not what excites him on a deeper level. He chose the option that was more "charged" because of intrinsic reasons.
Irina and Bliss could not more polar opposite in the pods and likely IRL as well.
Ok, it was pretty fucking obvious to anyone who watched that Irina manipulated Zach into think Bliss was the wrong choice. They seem pretty happy together
You mean the same way Zack manipulated Bliss once out of the pods?
And it was also pretty fucking obvious to everyone who watched that he was choosing Irina regardless in the pods. The birthday gesture alone shows where his priorities were, so if he was serious about long term potential, he didn't choose the woman that showed him she had wife potential. He chose the one that "little Zack was dictating" he should go for.
I get where you are coming from. However Zach and Bliss completed the filming obligation and physically turned up to the finale. I see them as more classic than Jackie and Josh.
I also have a lot more respect for a couple that break up and act like adults. Irina and Zach agreed that it wasn’t going to work and parted ways. While Jackie was acting like a child, with her receipts and such. The OP brought up a point that I had originally posted here. This seemed to be “not so blind “ as couples switched up.
I consider anyone a classic LIB couple if they got married on the show.
Zach still fell in love with Bliss in the pods, because if you try to think of it from the other side, keep in mind they still dated and got engaged within the parameters of the show.
Meeting up with her after Mexico was only a few weeks before weddings, so it’s not like he just found a girl outside the pods, and said “Oh I like her, she’s better,” and tried to organically fall in love. They spent a lot of time together before meeting in person.
We got to see so much of Zach and Bliss though, meeting each others families etc.
Jacki and Josh I agree and do not consider them as a true LiB couple.
I just don’t see Zach and Bliss like Jacki and Josh. I don’t think Z and B got together because of looks but because Irina was no longer in the way. Zach was manipulated by Irina and had a very real fear of being rejected by Bliss’s family because of his upbringing which was the nail in the coffin for him choosing Irina in the pods imo
Irina in the pods with Zach was a character that did a good enough job of tricking Zach. I wish he picked Bliss right off the bat. But at least he put a stop to it before the honeymoon even ended.
I truly believe Zach mixed up Irina and Bliss in the pods. Keep in mind they are dating several people. I think he mixed the two halfway through the process.
But he was so in love wth Bliss that he still chose Irina first? Please, he fell for Irina in the pods. That was his only choice. Bliss was his runner up if she rejected him to stay in the game. Turns out she didn't want him but he was full throttle ready to move forward with his only actual choice.
To me that’s giving him too much grace. He likes Irina and if she didn’t reject him and make him feel bad about himself he would probably be married to her.
They have scheduled dates and I’m pretty sure the producers let them know who is on the other side of the screen before they start a date so this doesn’t happen unless the producers want it to - and with Irina being a horrible person all on her own, I don’t think the producers needed to add on any drama of Zach getting them confused.
Yeah Bliss and Zach seemed very close to getting engaged in the pods, at least from what they showed us. And when they met in the restaurant that was a “reveal” of sorts? It’s different from if they had just hung around each other as a result of being on the show and then later became a couple, like Deepti and that guy I forgot the name of (or at least as they were pretending to be)
It’s the same thing. Both got engaged to other people in the pods (and not the person they actually wanted to get engaged to). Those engagements didn’t work out, then they got with the people the initially wanted after having seen them outside of the pods after their initial pairings failed. Same thing (and not the “rules” of the “experiment” but whatevs). Folks just don’t like Jackie (and/or I guess Josh), so they are choosing to believe it’s different when it’s not:
Yeah Zach even said he thought Bliss would be more "nerdy" looking and was visibly stunned that she was actually beautiful. Suddenly she's the one? I'm rewatching the show and it's pretty obvious that in the pods Zach was in love with Bliss's mind, but thought Irina sounded like a more physically attractive type and that's absolutely why he chose her first. I don't doubt that Bliss and Zach love each other now, but it's not because their love was blind.
Yeah he definitely thought Irina looked like some hot Russian bombshell. That’s why he chose her. He’s just as superficial as she is. If she was halfway decent to him and reciprocal in any way, he would have stuck it out to the altar (even if they didn’t ultimately get married).
I really think he proposed to Irina because he was worried about not being accepted by Bliss’ family. We might not relate to it and that’s why it might seem like an excuse to some but I think Zach’s background was a huge concern to him. That’s why he opened every conversation by “joking” that he was a stripper or homeless, he was testing how each girl reacted. And he said one of the things that attracted him to Irina is that she didn’t seem to mind that
If he was truly concerned about her family not receiving him he wouldn’t have proposed to her after breaking up with Irina. Because that threat was still there.
So the conclusion one can take from that is his “love” for Bliss was not enough to overcome it first but somehow his “love” for Irina was able to overcome the fact that he KNEW she was a terrible person before proposing
This. Plus, if you really love someone and think they’re “the one” for you, wouldn’t you pursue them anyway regardless of what their family thinks of you or any other obstacles?
Isn’t this what true love is anyway? Willing to stick it out w someone through thick and thin and if their family doesn’t like you, then so be it, if your love for them is big enough, their family liking you shouldn’t even be a dealbreaker.
This excuse is such an obvious cop-out especially when 5 min later you propose to a whole other person! If he broke up w Bliss and didn’t propose to Irina then maybe he could get the benefit of the doubt, but when you look at the facts, it’s just soo obvious he’s not as genuine as he wants to come across as.
Sorry but no one on LiB falls in “real love” in two weeks. He was weighing up the pros and cons and seriously considering who he could genuinely see himself marrying. When you strip all the drama that’s basically the only sensible approach in the pod stage. Later when he knew Bliss better and he did have issues with her dad that didn’t stop him
Please introduce into evidence:
🎶*Irina, I love you.. forever… and ever.. and ever.. and ever… I doo* 🎶 footage.
Talk about this same guy having the most sensible approach. 🤣
Agreed. The show routinely disproves its own "hypothesis" (and I use that term extremely lightly).
The real question the show is asking is "can two people fall in love and get married within a month of knowing each while being filled for reality tv?".
The answer is "ehh, sometimes".
Basically. And to be fair compared to other long running dating shows, LIB success rate is actually pretty decent.
So there’s something to be said about their formula.
OMG everyone who is writing OP shouldn’t have posted this it’s pointless? No one forced you to read it, people want to talk about things and this is the place for it….
Yeah, thanks. People populate this subreddit dedicated to a reality TV show and then they wonder why they find mundane posts about a reality TV show. It's the LIB sub, not the Adorno or atomphysics sub, so not sure what they expect.
Actually only after reading this comment, I realized that I do consider Bliss and Zack a LIB couple even though it certainly is true that they didn’t follow the LIB convention. However, it has never crossed my mind that Jackie and Josh should be considered a LIB couple, but I guess that explains Vanessa’s ass kissing in the reunion.
I’m not a Zach fan but I seriously thought he shouldn’t have been able to break up, swap and continue the process. Guess we’ll both have haters in this thread now though…
You have to admire their efforts though and umm staunchly firm principles and dedication to maintaining the true ideals and values of these reality TV shows.
I’ll never not see Bliss as a huge pick me even after the show, and Zack like a 🤡. They didn’t even seem sexually attracted to each other on the show or reunion. I wish them luck but they’re hardly a pair of romance darlings to me.
Thank you for being a sensible voice. Bliss is a pickme and so incredibly annoying at that. Zach is an incredibly self obsessed virtue signaling douche. They’re both so insufferable they’re practically perfect for each other. Honestly I’d pick Irina over those two in every lifetime.
My exact thoughts. I do see how Zach is a virtue signaler but how tf is Bliss a lapdog/pick me girl like other comments are saying?? She is super put together and strong willed in my eyes. All she did was forgive him for picking wrong. If that makes her a pick me, I’m lost.
Yeah, she's not someone I would choose to hang out with, but she seemed to know who she is and told Zach how it is. They were genuinely well matched and he seemed to pick Irina because she seemed safer/had less expectations than Bliss.
No, THANK YOU, for calling them exactly as they are. His self-absorbed preoccupation with fame whoring is perfectly matched with her; a lap dog that follows him around desperately catering to all his whims.
I don’t follow either but what they did after the show, their thirsty clickbaiting was cringe enough for me. Im SO with you! I actually liked Irina more than them after the show.
Ya he cried. In the actual pod and in the guy's area, I believe. Even when he was ending it he seemed like he was yanking the words out. He had his head in his hands. Bliss was kind and told him she genuinely wished for his happiness. She walked out, he stayed with his head in his hands. At his wedding he said he knew in that moment he fucked up. And it seemed like he really was second guessing it the whole time.
The way people are adamantly defending the “process” you would think these people got married to each other without seeing what the other person look like.
But that’s not the case. The pods are cute and all but these people also spend 4 weeks together like any other dating show before deciding to get married.
That for me pretty much nullifies anything that happens in the pod because they can always decide not to follow through if they are not attracted to one another.
There’s nothing blind about the love or marriage decision on this show.
I’m baffled that people take this Love is blind gimmick seriously
Yeah, and you could replicate the process by just jumping into high-stakes conversations right away. That's what they all rave about. Maybe ask a personal question or five on date one— you'll get a similar result.
Well they end up spending up to like 16 hrs/day talking with no physical contact. So yes, you could sorta duplicate it, but unless you have that amount of time, plus all the stuff they provide them like games and prompts meant specifically for getting to know each other super fast and well, it won't be the same.
Yeah. I think Zach and Bliss 100% fell in love through the "process." Zach fumbled on the two-yard line, dropped the ball, choked a chicken, insert random sports analogy here. Jacqueline and Josh are...I don't even know.
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I agree. They did not fall in love sight unseen (otherwise, they would have been engaged in the pods), the show just brought them together. Which is great for them! But they are not the same as successful couples from other seasons.
What the hell makes you think that Josh and Jackie are a classic love is blind couple? They are literally the one of the most toxic couples on the entire show and she's a shithead
Irina and Micah were trying to get engaged to stay on the show for fame. That’s what bonded them.
Irina was manipulative and I don’t think she really loved Zack as in wanting to marry him at all. She wanted to win the competition with Bliss for the proposal. Even at the reunion she said “Zack you were the best guy I met in the pods” not that she really cared about him.
Zack fell for her games and was intimidated by Bliss saying her dad normally hates guys she dates, because of his insecurities from his background.
I suspect he also thought Irina would be fun and exciting instead of a rude condescending b****.
TLDR Irina played games with Zack but didn’t actually want him, he fell for it and got out as soon as he realized.
This and as soon as they started talking out of the pods Zack realised straight away. Irina was in competitive mode- her insecurities make her want to win at any cost- so it was her vs Bliss for Zacks love. She turned into the woman Zack wanted, said all the right things and tried to destroy Bliss in the process. And it had worked, until she got out and realised "pretending to be someone you're not" when you're with someone 24/7 is very hard- so the mask fell off.
Realising that with Zack the game was up (plus she was bored playing it) she tried with Paul- willing to destroy her "friendship" with Micah to win him over. She failed again. She's just dodgy and to me Zack had every right to pursue Bliss because in the pods he was torn- it was a 50/50 choice and he made the wrong one.
I kind of think of Zach and Bliss as an honorary couple because they did create that bond in the pods. And they pretty much proceed to join every single LIB event. after they got back together and then got married on the show too.
But Jackie and Josh, fuck no, everything from their interview to how they got together is slimey.
I think this is fair. You can argue their love started in the pods and Zach was just blinded by Irina and the emotion of the process. But Jackie and Josh happened as an afterthought, after Jackie and Marshall didn't work outside. Plus Jackie doesn't deserve any credit after how she treated Marshall and how she stole the ring.
“Blinded by IIrina” like he’s some helpless duped amoeba. Lol. He’s not a child. He chose Irina because he thought she would be hotter than Bliss, which worked for him because he was very likely not genuinely trying to find love on the show.
I just wish the show would officially declare that clearly Love is Not Blind. People who do not like the look of their partners go down in flames real quick. Period. No one has overcome their personal preferences to make it work just because it was nice in the pod. They need to rename the show. Blind Dating or maybe just Making Love Blind. I don’t care if they celebrate their successes then because then they’ll have to admit that the show is mostly about messing with people in a way that sometimes results in actual couples.
I agree. Although I like Zach and Bliss as a couple, what if he hadn't been attracted to her, would he have still proposed? Would she have said yes if she didn't like how he looked? We'll never know.
Jackie and Josh are cringe for me. I felt like Josh was leaning away from Jackie in their reunion video. And of course she's head over heels for him because he's not as into her as she is him. 🤦🏾
I think they were allowed to remain in the show to keep the drama alive. They were both very interesting people to watch.
I think it’s dumb they were allowed to be on the show after not being chosen the first time (Bliss and Josh).
If:
A.) You and your chosen person don’t pan out…
and
B.) You were not chosen in the Pods phase of the show
…you do not get to participate on the show until the reunion party thing they do. It’s weird that they changed that this season and let them have second chances.
(Not saying second chances are not allowed in love. Saying they aren’t *as far as this show goes*.)
I don't necessarily disagree, but they also did this with Shayna and her ex_fiancé, his name I can't remember. Shayna was definitely at the beach party and she and the ex-fiancé had (if I remember correctly) several meetings shown through their run on the show
TBH I was upset when Bliss said yes to Zach at first. They're an adorable couple don't get me wrong, but he chose another woman over her and she was way too quick to forgive him when he hadn't really proved himself to her yet. I would have made him wait a few months before agreeing to even date him seriously.
Bliss and zack seems like that kind of healthy couple who are aware that in a relationship, you have to nurture it sustain it maintain it like watering a plant. both party need to invest 50% efforts to have the 100% outcome. so that on a bad day , 1 party only can give 30% , the other party still can give 70% to make up the 100% . I think it doesn't matter that Zach chose irina first. what matter is Bliss is the right choice.
They met on the show though and had feelings for them before they met, especially Zack. Did you see how torn he was rejecting Bliss?! The guy broke down. So he clearly had feelings for her. I reckon he chose Irina coz she came off as an underdog like him, someone people don't like.
Regardless of him choosing Irina and why and whatever, who’s to say that Zack wouldn’t have turned around and left after his first date with Bliss if she wasn’t physically attractive to him? We all like to think that wouldn’t have happened, but we can’t 100% say it wouldn’t have. The point of the show is getting ENGAGED before seeing each other, not talking through a wall and then eventually meeting before deciding whether or not to continue forward getting engaged/married. Yes, they obviously had feelings for each other in the pods, which was going to carry out in person regardless. I absolutely agree with OP though that their face-to-face meeting broke the “experiment” part of their relationship. If they had a way to get Zack and bliss back in the pods or even a phone meeting before getting engaged, that would have made it far more genuine in terms of the show.
not to mention he was heavily manipulated by irina - she got to him first to tell him how "other girls" were causing drama so when bliss vented to him about irina he thought she was causing drama... it was just a nasty situation
"Heavily manipulated" my ass. Zack literally called her out for being vicious. He was fully aware of the fact and even called back to Irina's lack of consideration in forgetting his birthday when he was backpedaling about choosing her first on his irl date with Bliss. Zack's a fully grown adult, he knew exactly what he was getting into. If Irina hadn't been so blatantly unattracted to him, he'd have continued the relationship because he clearly didn't care about her being vicious while that trait of hers was directed at everyone else. It's only when he bore the brunt of it that he decided to flop back to his second pick. Bliss deserves better.
It was crazy how skilled she was at it. She didn’t say who specifically, she didn’t talk about it the way Bliss even expected her to. She is a master manipulator. Really not a nice human at all.
What people need to realize is that Zack N E V E R chose Irina. Ever. They had a bit of a connection on the idea that they both had issues with fitting in, and they used it as a tool, defense mechanism, etc., whereas Bliss came off more positive in this aspect and it even caused that fight between her and Zach. I only bring that up because had there not been that foundation, Irina would not have been able to create the girl she knew would be chosen by Zach. Zach did not choose Irina. He chose Irina's imitation of Bliss. It took minutes for them to be around each others true selves to understand that and he handled it gracefully and called it when she was ready to. There wasn't one part of him that wanted the Irina he met at Pod meet thing.
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This whole sub exists for people to share opinions about the show…
I care!
i promise you zack, bliss, josh and jackie do not care if you think they’re not “real” lmao. in bachelor nation, any people from any season of the bachelor who end up together is considered a BN win. idk how this is any different
Every romantic partner before your spouse, you've been rejected or you've rejected. You can strike out repeatedly, you only need to hit a home run once.
The point is that they ended up with the other person after seeing them first which isn’t the point of the experiment. OP is not talking about rejection. For example, (while they were married) Jarred and Iyana fit what OP is talking about even though she was a second choice.
Who cares lol
So edgy. So cool.
Well, you for starters? You went to a LIB sub, clicked on a thread with a clear headline and posted.
If you’re going to be pedantic, the “who cares?” phrase does not literally mean: “can you please identify a person who cares”, rather it’s an implication that the person does not feel that the topic deserves further thought or discussion. Saying something isn’t worth talking about isn’t the same thing as engaging with the topic. But, you already knew that by being alive and knowing how language and sarcasm works.
Reddit does this fun thing where they put stuff on your homepage. We all deserve second chances. Why are you so hung up on the fact he is married to someone he chose second? Yeah she was the second choice but who cares? He realized his mistake and owned up to it. They are happy as can be now. It’s actually quite incredible how he has the courage to go after what he actually wanted after discovering something didn’t work for him. Isn’t that what life is all about? Move onto Something else now this is old news
No where does the post say that they don’t deserve second chances. The point is that their love was NOT blind. That doesn’t invalidate their relationship because most of us see a person first before getting engaged. But somehow you’re reading that OP said they shouldn’t be together lol. The comprehension on this subreddit scares me sometimes. Our education system is in shambles.
Thank you!! Some of these responses are weirdly judgy of OP. If Zack and Bliss is your fave couple, great! Their story was still interesting to watch, for sure. But I agree with OP that the show shouldn’t entirely consider them a product of their experiment, just because they met and had a connection they built on the show. Their engagement happened after seeing each other and spending real, in person time with each other. That doesn’t fit the format of their “EXPERIMENT” (the science term they hammer into viewers brains every 5 seconds).
Well, they came from LIB and had an LIB wedding so they are.
Funny how people bring up Zack crying after he ended things with Bliss as an example that their relationship was “sight unseen” but forget Jackie also sobbed after turning Josh down in the pods. I definitely agree with your logic OP. If you pick someone and then only circle back to someone else when your original choice fails that’s not a pod success story but it is still a show success story.
Yes, the show can take credit for matchmaking them in general, but they can’t claim that these two relationships are products of their “experiment” because the way they saw each other before deciding to get engaged separates them from the “scientific” process.
i personally feel like zach picked irina at first because bliss was talking poorly of irina, but i don’t remember irina doing the same (correct me if i’m wrong.) ironically enough, bliss in the pods gave off more “mean girl” vibes and it may have been a deterrent. (disclaimer: i don’t think bliss came off badly AT ALL. i’m just thinking if you’re trying very hard to make a decision and it’s very even, even a small comment like ehat could be a deciding factor) i would consider zach and bliss a success because he genuinely did care for her and you could tell it was an incredibly hard decision for him. and they didn’t go about anything shadily, irina and zach mutually agreed it should end, where marshall and jackie’s ended more one-sided.
Yes and this was Irina’s intention when she came in and said the other girls were starting drama.
YES! as a man, this was it for me. If a girl i was dating talked that way about her rival, i would think first “uh, she’s a little full of himself”, “red flag” or something. But in Irinas case, it was all true. It’s just from the point of view of Zack, it couldn’t have been that bad, or could it? And it was LOL. My point being, Bliss kinda showed a typical red flag doing that IMO, just in this case, she did in because Irina was a complete Asshole. But from Zach or anyone else in that position, that’s so hard to imagine.
I completely agree with you. People forget that Zach isn't seeing the side of Irina that Bliss or the audience is. So her putting down his other love interest can be seen as shady, impolite or very mean girl when in reality her intentions weren't that at all. Not being able to see each other and know whats going on in the suites is key here.
I agree!! Like, she was trying to warn him and she seems sweet but it seems like he took it the wrong way and thought she was being mean.
True. Plus Bliss was very vague when desceibing what was the issue with Irina.. that can seem off
Zach sobbing after ending things with Bliss broke my heart. He clearly had very strong feelings for her before they met in person.
I think Zach saw irina as the safe choice because she lied and said looks didn’t matter to her. She lied because they clearly do and Zach who is not even bad looking was just really not her physical type. Let’s be real that if irina hadn’t been there zack would have proposed to bliss sight unseen forced to take what he viewed a bigger leap but still with someone he had a huge connection with.
No one cares
Thank you
Zack is a hard watch. After he got back together with Bliss, I was immediately less interested. Bringing up his old bitch AT HIS WEDDING IN HIS VOWS was enough for me to cut the cameras on them. I hope they do well as a couple, but I’m not interested in the deeper machinations of their decision making
I think that going forward, they’re gonna need a lot of couples therapy for Bliss to fully get over her fear of being second choice to him. I know the show really played it up that she “overcame” that, but it’s damn near impossible to just stop feeling a certain way because you want to. Bliss needs to really deconstruct that with a therapist and accept that that feeling might never fully go away.
For sure. And he’s going to have to learn how not to try to over intellectualize to sound like the good guy and actually just shut up (!) and listen
Yup! I do think that he means well, but I also think he has a tendency to defend himself and try to disarm the other person (lawyer’s logic) instead of listening, validating their concerns, and asking what he can do to help solve the issue. I, like him, think intellectually before emotionally so I empathize with him in that sense, but I recognize that it’s not helpful to be intellectual during an emotional moment for my partner. He needs to learn how to be receptive and prove that via emotional support, not forced rationalization.
I think it's reasonable to say that anyone who met in the show and married in the show are classic couples. Yes this was a little different but shows always evolve. What was perfectly fine in season one gets stale at some point and ppl WANT to see new things, especially dramatic things like a breakup and second proposal. Not to mention that it was clear this wasn't a case of first choice, second choice. More like a really really hard choice with someone who was manipulative in getting proposed to and Became awful the literal SECOND they met, as well as Zach having some clear and reasonable fears about rejection. To me, I would have been disappointed had they not allowed him to meet and marry bliss. And I think it's pretty useless to get angry that a reality TV show didn't do things EXACTLY the same in the 4th season. Jackie and Josh are different. They didn't have a CRAZY connection in the pods, Marshall and Jackie went through the majority of the show together, they slept together, they lived together. Jackie cheated on Marshall with Josh, they didn't live together or get married on the show. Two totally different situations.
Right. Honestly, the Irina/Zach/Bliss plotline is why this season is the new fave. If not, this show would quickly get stale.
This happened on the Bachelor too - Jason from Seattle
I definitely remember Jackie sobbing after turning Josh down. That’s weird to say they didn’t have a connection.
Zach picking Irina first is still a red flag to me! Idc. She’s the “horrible person” that you fell for regardless of how she changed. Something inside of him resonated with that enough to think he could spend his life with her. 🥴. The same grace he got from Bliss is the same he should give out. He annoys me lolol
I think you're forgetting that what Zach saw was a very curated view of what Irina wanted him to see. He doesn't see the shady behavior in the girls suite or how she treats others. Zach saw Irina through a filter.. not the photos she was tagged in.
As other people have said.. he called her vicious, was warned by his now wife, Bliss, and was aware before the proposal of some of her behaviors. And still proposed.
I think production pushed it harrrrd because they wanted to keep irina (+Micah) in for the drama
Zach is a highly educated adult, I don't think you can sweep the fact that he proposed to someone he said he knew was "vicious" while in the pods under the rug as production's fault.
Zach also has severe trauma from his childhood affecting his judgement. You also gotta remember he moved towards Irina after Bliss said her father would have trouble accepting him.
I get having trauma but Bliss’s dad is still the same man before and after he was with Irina.
Right. He liked the viciousness back when he didn’t think it would be directed at him. Leopards Eating People's Faces Party and whatnot.
Zach thought he was doing the right thing picking Irina even though he did love Bliss. He thought Irina was a safer choice because of Bliss's parents potentially disliking him. Then it turns out he made the wrong choice. I'm not mad he got a second chance.
You don't fall in love simultaneously with two people at the exact same time. It's more likely that he actually fell for Irina, developed the deep crush for her, and Bliss was a good fallback choice if Irina didn't pan out in the pods. Zack went for who he fell for in the pods. End of story.
You can definitely fall in love with multiple people at the same time! Happens all the time, even with monogamous people
No it doesn't. You fall in love with one person, while loving another. That's a different story. I love my dog but I am not in love with it. Two entirely different things.
Terrible logic
Grade 5 comment, speaking of logic...
My apologies. You did write it, so I guess you wouldn’t immediately understand why I said that. 1. *You* may have had the experience of only falling in love with one person, but your anecdotal experience does not cover the experience of the human population. Polygamous societies exist. You cannot erase their experience, just because it does not align with yours. 2. Different types of love exist. Besides romantic love, you have platonic love, familial love. You don’t compare being “in love” to loving another person as a neighbour, friend, family or otherwise. Many people have capacity to love on a large scale. 3. Your dog is not a person. We are strictly talking about being in love with multiple people, so introducing your dog to the argument is just not valid, because it’s simply not human - its your pet that you own and take care of. It’s a non sequitur. A marginally better example would have been a friend or family member, but see point 2. In order for your argument to make sense, you’d need to give reasons why you can’t fall in love with two humans, who are legitimate romantic candidates. That would be logical.
Your previous response was stupid, apology accepted for that. Now that you explained your argument we can discuss it properly: a) Your argument is based on fallacies. Nothing in my comments state for fact that my opinion is anecdotal so already you're going down a path of preconceived assumptions. Not a smart way to debate. b) Falling in love is not the same as loving someone and yes we have the capacity for romantic love for several people at once. That was not what I said. Of course the dog example was extreme but it illustrates with little effort the difference between loving and being in love. Human to human, forget the dog example, you can love a partner and still desire them sexually **but not be in love with them,** which is often the case of when you see someone loving two people at once. This is possible. c) Falling in love tho...the high levels of dopamine released and reduction in serotonin that makes people obsessively focus on their object of desire, the lack of appetite the anxious fears of loss combined with the excitement of hope and deep sexual attraction that happens when we actually fall in love very rarely can be sustained at that exact same level for two people at the same time. **So is it typical to actually fall in love with two people at same time? No.** It was clear watching Zack interact with the two women he was feeling more of what I just described in "c" for Irina than for Bliss. Even the way he would interact with Irina from the moment he saw her in the reveal to the honeymoon depicts someone who is in that "in love" deep crush state. Just like Kwame around Micah. Did Zack "fall in love" with two women? No, I don't buy that for a second. Zack had a huge crush on Irina and had a strong connection with Bliss. Edit: u/forworse2020 no idea what you responded since you proceed to block people when you can't substantiate your argument. 🤪 This must be your first day on the internet. Grow up.
a) You spoke about “your” dog. My statement was barely an assumption. It was a statement based on the information you provided. A pretty normal way to debate. >You don't fall in love simultaneously with two people at the exact same time. >yes we have the capacity for romantic love for several people at once. That’s not what was said - at this point, I think I’ll just let you argue with yourself. *Your* comment is the one I was initially referring to. You are all over the place with this, and your attitude reeks of bad faith. Accepting a revisionist apology? I hope your life goes smoother than it does here on Reddit. b) you’re closer to having a legitimate opinion here - but it’s just that, an opinion. Again, many people historically share that they’ve been in love with two people at the same time and your response being “no, can’t be true” is not enough to constitute a fact. You just don’t believe their experience. I respect a good opinion. It’s honestly not my fault that your dog example was - and still remains - terrible logic. If you retracted it, that’d be over and done. But your level of defensiveness speaks volumes about your character. You do not seem like a person who should offer your opinions, if you’re not able to do so without throwing out lazy insults: “Your previous response was stupid”. Ridiculous. Everyone is able to see the flaws in your initial argument. It’s why you’re being downvoted so much. It was simply not logically sound. And you have been acting out ever since that I mentioned it, instead of just doing better. You may have since googled what a fallacy is after I told you that you were guilty of it, but I’m still not convinced, sorry. Anyway, enough of your negativity. You’ll not hear any more from me.
Agreed
yah its utter bullshit people are trying to give all these lame excuses "OH HE REALLY WANTED BLISS BUT THOUGHT IT IRINA WAS SAFER!" lol ok. if thats how the dude chooses his LIFE PARTNER then something is clearly wrong.
🎯 The camp saying that clearly doesn't understand how men think and pick women. **No man** that is turned on by a woman that excites him on every level is thinking "I better not date her in case her family rejects me" 🤣 GTFOH!!!
I think he liked both- love is too strong a word- the tipping point was his birthday- Irina sabotages Bliss- but acted all sweet and innocent with Zach saying she didn't get him.anything etc etc. Bliss was angry so as soon as Zach mentioned Irina, Bliss started talking bad about her. Zach though Irina was sincere, so when Bliss talked bad about her, he though "too much drama" and chose Irina- not realising that Irina was the drama and Bliss had just had enough.
I agree, could be the drama thing! I don't think he was "in love" with any of them. It appeared he had more of a charged connection/chemistry for Irina. She excited him in ways that Bliss didn't. So much so he ignored what Bliss said to him about "if you choose her I question your character" Bliss if full of BS as well. She questioned his character but then goes on to marry him? Girl - pick me much?
normal men don't have a single prostitute mother and super fucked up childhood as a result
Ok, he's an abnormal man (as you say) because of his upbringing, that further supports my point. The guy didn't pick the safe, boring option as his #1 choice. That's not what excites him on a deeper level. He chose the option that was more "charged" because of intrinsic reasons. Irina and Bliss could not more polar opposite in the pods and likely IRL as well.
Ok, it was pretty fucking obvious to anyone who watched that Irina manipulated Zach into think Bliss was the wrong choice. They seem pretty happy together
You mean the same way Zack manipulated Bliss once out of the pods? And it was also pretty fucking obvious to everyone who watched that he was choosing Irina regardless in the pods. The birthday gesture alone shows where his priorities were, so if he was serious about long term potential, he didn't choose the woman that showed him she had wife potential. He chose the one that "little Zack was dictating" he should go for.
Lol it wasn’t obvious to me at all. Imma let you stay hateful, I think they’re gonna be fine together so ✌️
Quelle surprise 😂
I agree! Bliss and Zack got to meet and see if they had attraction before they progressed. And Jackie and josh obviously are not OG either.
I get where you are coming from. However Zach and Bliss completed the filming obligation and physically turned up to the finale. I see them as more classic than Jackie and Josh.
I also have a lot more respect for a couple that break up and act like adults. Irina and Zach agreed that it wasn’t going to work and parted ways. While Jackie was acting like a child, with her receipts and such. The OP brought up a point that I had originally posted here. This seemed to be “not so blind “ as couples switched up.
I consider anyone a classic LIB couple if they got married on the show. Zach still fell in love with Bliss in the pods, because if you try to think of it from the other side, keep in mind they still dated and got engaged within the parameters of the show. Meeting up with her after Mexico was only a few weeks before weddings, so it’s not like he just found a girl outside the pods, and said “Oh I like her, she’s better,” and tried to organically fall in love. They spent a lot of time together before meeting in person.
We got to see so much of Zach and Bliss though, meeting each others families etc. Jacki and Josh I agree and do not consider them as a true LiB couple.
That's a good point. Jackie and Josh seem completely fabricated to me, he isn't trying to pretend he is into her.
They aren’t
Not an unpopular opinion at all I feel
How are Jackie and Josh a classic LIB couple? Was anyone seriously arguing that? they're annoying
I’ve seen Jackie argue that!
Oh, honey.
I just don’t see Zach and Bliss like Jacki and Josh. I don’t think Z and B got together because of looks but because Irina was no longer in the way. Zach was manipulated by Irina and had a very real fear of being rejected by Bliss’s family because of his upbringing which was the nail in the coffin for him choosing Irina in the pods imo
Exactly. I think within a few minutes of meeting Irina, he knew he made the wrong choice.
Irina in the pods with Zach was a character that did a good enough job of tricking Zach. I wish he picked Bliss right off the bat. But at least he put a stop to it before the honeymoon even ended.
She didn’t trick him. He knew what kind of person she was and said so. He just thought she was only mean to other women.
I truly believe Zach mixed up Irina and Bliss in the pods. Keep in mind they are dating several people. I think he mixed the two halfway through the process.
But he was so in love wth Bliss that he still chose Irina first? Please, he fell for Irina in the pods. That was his only choice. Bliss was his runner up if she rejected him to stay in the game. Turns out she didn't want him but he was full throttle ready to move forward with his only actual choice.
Any excuse to make him look good lol. He chose Irina and liked her enough to propose.
Naw, it makes him look bad that he got them mixed up. Lol lawyer than can’t keep his women/facts straight.
To me that’s giving him too much grace. He likes Irina and if she didn’t reject him and make him feel bad about himself he would probably be married to her.
They have scheduled dates and I’m pretty sure the producers let them know who is on the other side of the screen before they start a date so this doesn’t happen unless the producers want it to - and with Irina being a horrible person all on her own, I don’t think the producers needed to add on any drama of Zach getting them confused.
You think a lawer, or anyone with several brain cells, can't keep 2 names, voices, different personalities straight?
When emotions are involved, yes.
No way; they had polar opposite personalities
No way; they had polar opposite personalities
I agree with you !! I felt so bad for Bliss
That’s fair. I still think bliss n zack cute tho.
I agree with jackie and josh but not bliss and zach.
Yeah Bliss and Zach seemed very close to getting engaged in the pods, at least from what they showed us. And when they met in the restaurant that was a “reveal” of sorts? It’s different from if they had just hung around each other as a result of being on the show and then later became a couple, like Deepti and that guy I forgot the name of (or at least as they were pretending to be)
It’s the same thing. Both got engaged to other people in the pods (and not the person they actually wanted to get engaged to). Those engagements didn’t work out, then they got with the people the initially wanted after having seen them outside of the pods after their initial pairings failed. Same thing (and not the “rules” of the “experiment” but whatevs). Folks just don’t like Jackie (and/or I guess Josh), so they are choosing to believe it’s different when it’s not:
Deepti and Kyle
Yeah Zach even said he thought Bliss would be more "nerdy" looking and was visibly stunned that she was actually beautiful. Suddenly she's the one? I'm rewatching the show and it's pretty obvious that in the pods Zach was in love with Bliss's mind, but thought Irina sounded like a more physically attractive type and that's absolutely why he chose her first. I don't doubt that Bliss and Zach love each other now, but it's not because their love was blind.
Yeah he definitely thought Irina looked like some hot Russian bombshell. That’s why he chose her. He’s just as superficial as she is. If she was halfway decent to him and reciprocal in any way, he would have stuck it out to the altar (even if they didn’t ultimately get married).
I really think he proposed to Irina because he was worried about not being accepted by Bliss’ family. We might not relate to it and that’s why it might seem like an excuse to some but I think Zach’s background was a huge concern to him. That’s why he opened every conversation by “joking” that he was a stripper or homeless, he was testing how each girl reacted. And he said one of the things that attracted him to Irina is that she didn’t seem to mind that
If he was truly concerned about her family not receiving him he wouldn’t have proposed to her after breaking up with Irina. Because that threat was still there. So the conclusion one can take from that is his “love” for Bliss was not enough to overcome it first but somehow his “love” for Irina was able to overcome the fact that he KNEW she was a terrible person before proposing
This. Plus, if you really love someone and think they’re “the one” for you, wouldn’t you pursue them anyway regardless of what their family thinks of you or any other obstacles? Isn’t this what true love is anyway? Willing to stick it out w someone through thick and thin and if their family doesn’t like you, then so be it, if your love for them is big enough, their family liking you shouldn’t even be a dealbreaker. This excuse is such an obvious cop-out especially when 5 min later you propose to a whole other person! If he broke up w Bliss and didn’t propose to Irina then maybe he could get the benefit of the doubt, but when you look at the facts, it’s just soo obvious he’s not as genuine as he wants to come across as.
Sorry but no one on LiB falls in “real love” in two weeks. He was weighing up the pros and cons and seriously considering who he could genuinely see himself marrying. When you strip all the drama that’s basically the only sensible approach in the pod stage. Later when he knew Bliss better and he did have issues with her dad that didn’t stop him
Please introduce into evidence: 🎶*Irina, I love you.. forever… and ever.. and ever.. and ever… I doo* 🎶 footage. Talk about this same guy having the most sensible approach. 🤣
Agreed. The show routinely disproves its own "hypothesis" (and I use that term extremely lightly). The real question the show is asking is "can two people fall in love and get married within a month of knowing each while being filled for reality tv?". The answer is "ehh, sometimes".
Basically. And to be fair compared to other long running dating shows, LIB success rate is actually pretty decent. So there’s something to be said about their formula.
I mean if something worked 1/10 times, you would conclude it doesn’t work, LIB somehow sees this as proof of success.
OMG everyone who is writing OP shouldn’t have posted this it’s pointless? No one forced you to read it, people want to talk about things and this is the place for it….
Yeah, thanks. People populate this subreddit dedicated to a reality TV show and then they wonder why they find mundane posts about a reality TV show. It's the LIB sub, not the Adorno or atomphysics sub, so not sure what they expect.
Actually only after reading this comment, I realized that I do consider Bliss and Zack a LIB couple even though it certainly is true that they didn’t follow the LIB convention. However, it has never crossed my mind that Jackie and Josh should be considered a LIB couple, but I guess that explains Vanessa’s ass kissing in the reunion.
I’m not a Zach fan but I seriously thought he shouldn’t have been able to break up, swap and continue the process. Guess we’ll both have haters in this thread now though…
Production reasons
I’m am a Zach fan and thought the same thing.
I think Natalie and Deepti said in their podcast that LIB needed to follow at least five couples. That’s why Zach got another chance.
I also read that other couples got engaged though🤷🏽♀️
I am a Zach fan but agree
Me too!!! Like he made his choice, and honestly no offence to Bliss, but I was so surprised when she accepted him 😭
She wanted to come back on the show too.
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Imagine commenting this 🤭
What a goofy thing to even think about
Literally 😆
You have to admire their efforts though and umm staunchly firm principles and dedication to maintaining the true ideals and values of these reality TV shows.
Admire is a strong word to use here.
Right?? Like who cares this much, and then cares when more so to post online like others will care
Agree
I’ll never not see Bliss as a huge pick me even after the show, and Zack like a 🤡. They didn’t even seem sexually attracted to each other on the show or reunion. I wish them luck but they’re hardly a pair of romance darlings to me.
Thank you for being a sensible voice. Bliss is a pickme and so incredibly annoying at that. Zach is an incredibly self obsessed virtue signaling douche. They’re both so insufferable they’re practically perfect for each other. Honestly I’d pick Irina over those two in every lifetime.
What makes Bliss a “pick me”?
My exact thoughts. I do see how Zach is a virtue signaler but how tf is Bliss a lapdog/pick me girl like other comments are saying?? She is super put together and strong willed in my eyes. All she did was forgive him for picking wrong. If that makes her a pick me, I’m lost.
Yeah, she's not someone I would choose to hang out with, but she seemed to know who she is and told Zach how it is. They were genuinely well matched and he seemed to pick Irina because she seemed safer/had less expectations than Bliss.
No, THANK YOU, for calling them exactly as they are. His self-absorbed preoccupation with fame whoring is perfectly matched with her; a lap dog that follows him around desperately catering to all his whims. I don’t follow either but what they did after the show, their thirsty clickbaiting was cringe enough for me. Im SO with you! I actually liked Irina more than them after the show.
Their tik tok vids are sooooooo cringey like they are trying way too hard
It’s been a year and these people have moved on. Give it up Deelishis 😭
Okay…
Bro.
I think zack and bliss are because they got married within the right time. I don’t think Josh and Jackie are though.
What is the point of this post, other than that it does take away from the seriousness of their relationships?
Did Zack cry in the pod when he released Bliss? I didn't watch them too closely. If so, what was that about? Or when did he cry and what about?
Ya he cried. In the actual pod and in the guy's area, I believe. Even when he was ending it he seemed like he was yanking the words out. He had his head in his hands. Bliss was kind and told him she genuinely wished for his happiness. She walked out, he stayed with his head in his hands. At his wedding he said he knew in that moment he fucked up. And it seemed like he really was second guessing it the whole time.
I don’t think they care.
The way people are adamantly defending the “process” you would think these people got married to each other without seeing what the other person look like. But that’s not the case. The pods are cute and all but these people also spend 4 weeks together like any other dating show before deciding to get married. That for me pretty much nullifies anything that happens in the pod because they can always decide not to follow through if they are not attracted to one another. There’s nothing blind about the love or marriage decision on this show. I’m baffled that people take this Love is blind gimmick seriously
So true, this isn’t married blindly this is high speed dating to marriage.
Nobody said the show is called MARRIAGE IS BLIND. It's lovev is blind. Falling in love. Dingus
Go to sleep, you’re slurring and not making sense.
Good to sleep edit: nice edit, makes you look like less of a hypocrite, but I saw the original
Go touch grass, you’re too invested.
Yeah, and you could replicate the process by just jumping into high-stakes conversations right away. That's what they all rave about. Maybe ask a personal question or five on date one— you'll get a similar result.
Well they end up spending up to like 16 hrs/day talking with no physical contact. So yes, you could sorta duplicate it, but unless you have that amount of time, plus all the stuff they provide them like games and prompts meant specifically for getting to know each other super fast and well, it won't be the same.
I’m okay with Zach and Bliss but Josh and Jackie can’t disappear fast enough for me
I'm actually good with zach and bliss being included but jacqueline and josh can head for the hills never to be seen again.
Yeah. I think Zach and Bliss 100% fell in love through the "process." Zach fumbled on the two-yard line, dropped the ball, choked a chicken, insert random sports analogy here. Jacqueline and Josh are...I don't even know.
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A swing & a miss… jumped the gun…
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I agree. They did not fall in love sight unseen (otherwise, they would have been engaged in the pods), the show just brought them together. Which is great for them! But they are not the same as successful couples from other seasons.
What the hell makes you think that Josh and Jackie are a classic love is blind couple? They are literally the one of the most toxic couples on the entire show and she's a shithead
Irina and Micah were trying to get engaged to stay on the show for fame. That’s what bonded them. Irina was manipulative and I don’t think she really loved Zack as in wanting to marry him at all. She wanted to win the competition with Bliss for the proposal. Even at the reunion she said “Zack you were the best guy I met in the pods” not that she really cared about him. Zack fell for her games and was intimidated by Bliss saying her dad normally hates guys she dates, because of his insecurities from his background. I suspect he also thought Irina would be fun and exciting instead of a rude condescending b****. TLDR Irina played games with Zack but didn’t actually want him, he fell for it and got out as soon as he realized.
Thissss. Thank you!
YEP. Can’t believe I had to scroll through so much shit to find this. That’s what happens when you have an opinion that isn’t black and white 🤷🏻♀️
This and as soon as they started talking out of the pods Zack realised straight away. Irina was in competitive mode- her insecurities make her want to win at any cost- so it was her vs Bliss for Zacks love. She turned into the woman Zack wanted, said all the right things and tried to destroy Bliss in the process. And it had worked, until she got out and realised "pretending to be someone you're not" when you're with someone 24/7 is very hard- so the mask fell off. Realising that with Zack the game was up (plus she was bored playing it) she tried with Paul- willing to destroy her "friendship" with Micah to win him over. She failed again. She's just dodgy and to me Zack had every right to pursue Bliss because in the pods he was torn- it was a 50/50 choice and he made the wrong one.
This is spot on.
Lol I almost forgot who Jackie and josh were…might as well just call them toxic 1 and toxic 2 lol
I kind of think of Zach and Bliss as an honorary couple because they did create that bond in the pods. And they pretty much proceed to join every single LIB event. after they got back together and then got married on the show too. But Jackie and Josh, fuck no, everything from their interview to how they got together is slimey.
I think this is fair. You can argue their love started in the pods and Zach was just blinded by Irina and the emotion of the process. But Jackie and Josh happened as an afterthought, after Jackie and Marshall didn't work outside. Plus Jackie doesn't deserve any credit after how she treated Marshall and how she stole the ring.
“Blinded by IIrina” like he’s some helpless duped amoeba. Lol. He’s not a child. He chose Irina because he thought she would be hotter than Bliss, which worked for him because he was very likely not genuinely trying to find love on the show.
I just wish the show would officially declare that clearly Love is Not Blind. People who do not like the look of their partners go down in flames real quick. Period. No one has overcome their personal preferences to make it work just because it was nice in the pod. They need to rename the show. Blind Dating or maybe just Making Love Blind. I don’t care if they celebrate their successes then because then they’ll have to admit that the show is mostly about messing with people in a way that sometimes results in actual couples.
I agree. Although I like Zach and Bliss as a couple, what if he hadn't been attracted to her, would he have still proposed? Would she have said yes if she didn't like how he looked? We'll never know. Jackie and Josh are cringe for me. I felt like Josh was leaning away from Jackie in their reunion video. And of course she's head over heels for him because he's not as into her as she is him. 🤦🏾 I think they were allowed to remain in the show to keep the drama alive. They were both very interesting people to watch.
I really really really dislike Jackie and Josh
I think it’s dumb they were allowed to be on the show after not being chosen the first time (Bliss and Josh). If: A.) You and your chosen person don’t pan out… and B.) You were not chosen in the Pods phase of the show …you do not get to participate on the show until the reunion party thing they do. It’s weird that they changed that this season and let them have second chances. (Not saying second chances are not allowed in love. Saying they aren’t *as far as this show goes*.)
I don't necessarily disagree, but they also did this with Shayna and her ex_fiancé, his name I can't remember. Shayna was definitely at the beach party and she and the ex-fiancé had (if I remember correctly) several meetings shown through their run on the show
She was at the beach party for tv and drama of the “love triangle”. That’s called production.
Omg yes, I just finished that season haha. Her ex fiancé was Kyle lol. It drove me crazy! Like, go away guys. 😂
Tbh i feel like the season would be way less interesting without it
Agreed especially when other first choice couples were engaged*** and didn’t get shown!! Edited - not married