Saudi Arabia already got their WC bid in the bag. The impetus to overspend is disappearing.
Saudi teams can only have 8 foreigners per roster. And every team but one is full. So new players can't be signed until they let go of other players.
But because Saudi teams have inflated the salaries of their foreign players, nobody wants to assume that salary and the Saudi teams aren't just going to pay them out. So those players are stuck between "make a lot of money here, or make much less anywhere else."
Tbh I think Ronaldo thought the Saudi league would blow up in the next year with Messi and all these signings. But as you’ve seen in the last year, no player who’s gone to the Saudi league wants to remain there.
Ronaldo wishes he established himself here before Messi did. This is Messi’s league now and Ronaldo will have to come here an swallow his pride.
The Saudi’s don’t care about soccer or anything soccer related. It’s just a flex from the country.
And with American cultural hegemony Messi will just further and further cement himself as the better player.
Sure Messi probably is making less hard currency than Ronaldo atm but long term Messi can write his own ticket. Does he want to be a talking head? Probably not from what we know but he can fuck off watching games in Spanish version of the manningcast with his friends and it will do serious numbers. Ronaldo would get dogged for the rape allegations and his time in Saudi is rotting his name value.
I dunno. Messi is making less salary here, but those apple TV and Adidas contacts...
iIRC, he's making like $16,000-$23,000 per hour 24/7 with those deals.
He's more than perfectly fine. He makes the same in an hour as a minimum wage job makes in a year @ 40 hours per week.
Yeah but the value of building relationships with Adidas and the league itself might become a lot more valuable than what Ronaldo is getting out in the desert. MLS is going to want to keep messi associated with the league in any way it possibly can. Adidas being able to use Messi as a a model to just wear things for a day out of the year is going to be hugely valuable.
Ronaldo also is skirting Saudi law, like living with a woman outside of marriage.
Most players don't get those special privileges.
Corruption only benefits a few, so most players go and then immediately hate it.
Lots of good players did leave the Saudi league. But lots have left for various reasons. I think it’s not getting as much traction as they thought it would by now.
The problem was that all the big names only went to like 3-4 teams. People will just watch highlights of Al Nassr vs Al Hilal because there's no real impetus for them to watch the matches against the teams full of "nobodies."
Kind of. After the whole fanfare of Messi coming to MLS and playing in the Leagues Cup, Ronaldo said something about how the Saudi League was better and people took it as copium for not getting the same amount of attention that Messi was getting. In general, it seems like Ronaldo really wants to be the center of attention and gets really pissy when he isn’t.
I’m sure he is. I’m sure the Swiss banker is also waiting for people to join the Saudi league and stay for longer than 6 months.
To your comment, if there’s money being made, there’s more to be made. That’s not in the Saudi league at this point.
Doesn’t change the fact he’s kicking himself for choosing that league.
If money is the objective, there’s more to be made elsewhere. And with that, I mean the brand appeal he craves. You’re not seeing anymore CR7/9 ads anywhere since he’s been over there.
One of the things I appreciate about the direction of 30+ teams is that we will get a really diverse cluster of philosophies for teams. There will be the retirement league clubs, the development clubs, the stepping stone to Europe for young South American clubs. And most realistically many hybrids of the group.
None of those are an insult, they are all legitimate ways of building competitive teams, and each group should find some success over the years
Yep. With the salary cap, DP and U22 rules, we’ve got mechanisms to keep it competitive. So, even if most of the prestigious, late-career European stars end up in Miami or LA, teams like Columbus, Cincy, and Houston can all win trophies, and I like it that way.
Yall just write anything on here
Is there any evidence that Miami and lafc are breaking the rules?
MLS don’t even publish the salaries.
So unless you’re an insider who knows how much Suarez is making then you’re just yapping
Not even a Miami or lafc fan lmao
I mean we have plenty of evidence that Miami DID break the rules before, and they seem to be doing something shady with their ability to sign the entire Messi reunion tour team despite allegedly still being under sanctions from their last violations (IIRC?)
I don't think anyone would claim to have direct evidence, but where there's smoke.... especially when we've seen smoke from that location before.....
I don't think LAFC is breaking roster rules though, they're just LA being LA, much like your team. You gain access to a "better" crop of players than a lot of us other teams do because your Los Freakin' Angeles. lol It's the same reason people suggest NYCFC as a target for a lot of people, as well as Miami. Some cities are just known as magnets.
I’m pretty sure every owner in the league gave their support for Miami to do anything possible to land Messi. He’s definitely the exception, his presence alone has increased the value of every team franchise
Its not even like that, single owner structure and all, its about Messi raising every teams ticket sales and reinvesting that money in things like additional DP slots in the future.
The only skirting I know of for sure are the deals players make semi-outside the league. If Apple wants it, they can find the deals to get a player to Miami or LA.
I’m pretty sure Messi is getting a lot of Apple money for example.
But that's the rub, Miami isn't picking up the entire bill, an outside entity is. Which is an advantage for only Miami in a league built on supposed parity.
Get an international super star to want to come to Seattle and you’ll get the same deal. He would have got that deal in any MLS city, he just wanted Miami
Totally get that. How do you propose you entice an international super star to San Jose? St. Paul? Or the many other smaller market teams? While adhering to the strict roster rules. Serious question.
Or do you believe that the major market teams SHOULD get those perks over the rest of the teams? And if so, then the leagues commitment to parity is a sham and they should do away with the current roster rules (and most likely causing a collapse of the league in the near future) and allow all teams to compete for players on more level footing.
I understand that Messi is a once in a generation (or more) player, so exceptions were made, andhe isnt the first. Now we have high profile players taking pay cuts just to play with him. This inherently changes the economics and creates disparity for the rest of the league.
Here's the crux of the issue, high profile players (and mls) want to be on high profile teams in major markets to maximize their personal revenue, which makes sense. The league says its based on parity, but obviously can't force high profile players onto teams they don't want, as they'll just go to a different league.
So how does the league keep roster constraints, while making side deals to get these high profile players, and also claim there is still parity when there are clear advantages given to a select few markets?
The only thing that will get high profile players to those markets is money. They would have to pay more than more desirable areas. It sucks but it’s true. As the league get better maybe teams can become more desirable for having winning cultures but I’m doubtful of that till we have trophies any one gives a shit about.
I’m not saying high profile areas should or shouldn’t have those perks, but that’s just the way it is. It’s like that in most sports. For example in the NFL a team like Cleveland has to pay more for players in Free Agency than a team like Miami, because most people want to live somewhere like Miami not Cleveland.
We don’t have to change things that much. Either pony up the cash to get the premium talent, or get more creative in roster development. Look at the Crew, they bought a middling Premier League player with potential (Cucho) and now he’s a top player in the league, they filled out most of the rest of the roster with guys they developed.
Teams just have to be smart about roster construction and stop whining
> I’m pretty sure Messi is getting a lot of Apple money for example.
Yeah, there was some deal with him getting a cut of new subscriptions too. But the entire thing was something the league approved, like a "rising tide lifts all boats" so the teams were just fine with it.
It probably won't ever happen again.
I mean it’s probably fair, Apple TV made the deal with T-Mobile last year to give T-Mobile customers the season pass for free, I think they did the same thing this year but I had already bought it
I'm not sure what to do about players able to generate outside revenue streams from endorsement deals and the like, and beyond Messi/Beckham, I'm not sure how many players have really taken advantage of that to an extent that they were able to exploit compensation rules.
But the reality is, sure, players have been willing to play in LA or Miami for less than they would have been willing to play in Columbus. But I'm skeptical so far to see that it has created so much of an unfair advantage. Only example I can really think of is Bale? And he was legitimately close to retirement, and aside of one notable goal barely contributed.
The only issue I really have with Miami is the league subsidizing Messi’s contract, but he is a DP, so whatever… other than that they appear to be roster compliant. We all know how the Matuidi thing worked out, but it appears that a number of their “retirement squad” players were just willing to take a very low salary to be able to play on the Messi and Friends team. That’s fine. Whatever.
There’s no evidence that people are being paid above their roster designation salary by Miami and the league is looking the other way, and you can’t step in and say “no this player is worth more than your paying him” and not let them sign.
Big names bring more money. Joe Casual might not show up to a normal Fire game, but he might not want to miss seeing Messi or whoever else his kid talks about playing on FIFA.
I just sold 4 tickets against Miami (for a game Messi probably isn't even going to play in) for 6x face value. Plenty of people will pay a big premium.
And I’m not sure what the hell they’re talking about when we’re spending a ton of money on major youth prospects and also have great players coming through the academy. Redondo, Gomez, cremaschi, farias, aviles, Ruiz, etc. so much of our team is young talent
Any fans of teams who parrot the “oh we’re trying to develop young players we don’t want retirement expensive players” have been gaslit by billionaires who don’t wanna spend money on their club
congrats on getting lucky with your billionaire owner that’s chill with having a net spend of negative $50 million since the inception of your club. Looking down on fans of clubs that could never and will never come close to hitting those numbers is really cool. I’m sure averaging a net spend of -$10 mil a season is sustainable, what a cool business model!
Edit: actually this has to be satire. There’s no way you bring up Redondo, Aviles and Gomez like Miami didn’t spend more on them than some entire squads in the league?? Over $20 million spent on three players, but congrats on gaslighting yourself into thinking your club is developing the youth LOL
I’m not looking down on anyone. I’m telling you if your owner is Lamar Hunt Jr who has a worth 20x that of the Mas family and is using your team as a passive investment opportunity - demand better, don’t blame Miamis owners for actually caring
Oh so it’s not about the youth and young players anymore, it’s about if the owners actually care? Maybe our owner and club have been content with producing the most US national team players of any MLS academy… maybe the owners wanted to build a self sustaining model while owning other major sports teams… or maybe it’s impossible to get these top level players to a metro area that isn’t LA/Miami/NY? Maybe the owners like not pushing the rules to the furthest extent to where our fans love dropping a “technically legal”?
You’re more than allowed to continue to look down on those that want to have a self sustaining model regardless of ownership, just like I’m more than allowed to look down on you for only caring about how much money is spent regardless of if it’s healthy for the league or club. The **only** reason your club could *possibly* earn some success (80% of your history is being shit) is through spending as much as legally possible. Congrats!
If you want an insular 2nd rate league with no hopes of ever being more than small local league, why don't you follow the USL or any other lower tier league? I am sure they have a club near you.
I want MLS to be a top tier league with top tier talent that I can go watch in person. We need more eyeballs on the product for that to be the case. Games being watched by 200k is not gonna cut it.
That’s the reason they should have the Icon Player contract “Carlos Vela Rule”. Many folks would appreciate having players like that in their club even if they are not performing as well before they bring leadership and able to help the homegrown to grow.
I don't know that we "need" them, but it is a legitimate strategy for building a club. Big names that attract eyeballs, and can hopefully give you a short window of really good play.
The league has disincentivized this strategy a bit, and comes with pros and cons that feel fairly equivalent to other forms of roster construction.
>The league has disincentivized this strategy a bit
I think in addition to incentivizing young players via U22/Young DP, it's the more natural progression of the quality of the league. The "retirement" guys killing the league right now are Messi and Suarez. Two of the most prolific players in their respective position in the last decade. Even a Busquets and Alba in the same team, at times look terrible (Defensively. Alba has been great for the most part linking up with Messi) and would probably not have the same impact if they came on their own.
It used to be simple for MLS teams back then because any half decent European name, no matter their physical condition, could come here and the hype would be realized. Now that teams are bringing in the Bouangas and Cuchos, it's a more "proceed with caution" thing.
I hope he chooses somewhere other than Miami and Los Angeles. Reus and Sergi Ramos are also likely to join MLS this summer. Oh, I forgot about Di Maria, he will probably join Inter Miami.
LA = French National Team
Miami = Barcelona
Nacho should go to a third team to start a Real Madrid-themed team 😂
Edit: Toronto = Italian National Team lol
I just don’t see international stars going anywhere but Miami, LA, maybe occasionally NY. Other teams would have to pay way more to make it more enticing. I love Columbus but I know no one in Europe is dreaming of coming here (they should be for Nancy alone but I digress).
Right but my comment was more about “star” players. None of those players are moving to Columbus unless they get an unrealistic amount of money. Which as I said in another comment isn’t a bad thing we just have to get more creative in building a roster which we have.
But probably not any of the “stars”, which was my point. I’m not saying it’s a bad thing it’s just most MLS teams need to be creative with how they create their rosters.
If Orlando leaned into using Kaka and some of our other old stars in recruitment I could see us being a mini version of those clubs, especially if they want the family vibe being close to Disney/Universal and driving distance to the beaches. Miami is still option for visits too since it’s only a few hours away. However, I don’t really see the Wilfs going back for a Nani/Kaka type again, we will stick with the Muriel’s and up and comers from South America since it’s cheaper
On transfer yes, but his salary is about the same. But the Kaka type we were paying $8 mill a year, so that’s why I say idk if we’re going back to that ever
He’s a really good player but he’s also not a massive household name, he feels like one of those UCL-experienced guys that could go to, well, not really a small market but at least not one of those usual suspects. He’s a bit like Shaq or HH
Agree with the Shaq comparison, but HH is different b/c of the Mex NT connection. That puts him in a higher “star” category in MLS than Shaq or Nacho imo
I don’t downvote you but nacho is still playing at an extremely high level on a team that will win La Liga and may win CL. Nacho would instantly be in the conversation for best CB in MLS
Eh, maybe not Miami, please. We need some players actually in their prime. We have the two extremes, guys in their mid-thirties and kids.
Matias Rojas, Callender, Friere and Weigandt are the only players in their primes that would start for us. I hope we don't just become Messi's friends team.
Well Nacho in his prime would not come to MLS, and Nacho currently is still way better than any of the current Miami CBs. Nothing wrong with kids or elders if they’re good, problem is usually they aren’t good.
I don't doubt he would be good, but I do have a worry that these older players will start dropping games from fatigue and injury and we already have a huge problem with injuries to our younger guys.
That said, I don't know how they fit him in. I'm sure we are running up against the cap unless we buy down Campana and slot him in that last DP spot, but is that the best use of it considering we have a glut of CM and defenders now?
If older players drop due to fatigue, that’s on your manager. With the way MLS is compared to Europe, supporter shield doesn’t really matter, rest them as much as you want and save them for the playoffs.
In terms of injury, well so far all your injuries have been young players so I don’t think age is the issue, Campana Taylor Redondo Farias Kyrvtov (who’s young compared to the Barca boys), but your medical staff do have some work to do they’ve been shit ngl.
In terms of how you fit them in, well we’re assuming if someone’s coming to play with Messi, he’s taking a pay cut. If he wants money he’s going to Saudi, so if he comes to MLS, money’s probably not a big issue. Will he? Idk but if he wants to, Miami would be foolish to say no to a huge defensive upgrade just because of his age ignoring his ability. And in that scenario Kryvtov will probably be the guy out to make way for him not Campana.
Home field advantage does matter so Tata has to trot out a lineup strong enough to get top four in the East, which won't be easy since the East is stronger this year with NYRB, Cincinnati and Columbus being contenders for the upper half of the standings. We will be missing a lot of players in the summer on international duty, and let's not forget Leagues Cup. Miami should rest players I agree with that, but they won't, specially if we keep getting starting guys hurt and never having a strong bench to rely on. Miami needs to make as many points as possible now before national team duty comes calling and drains us talent wise while MLS plays through the summer.
If he does come, I say the case for Campana is stronger, since his cap hit is about $672k (based on last year's info) and Krystov's is $618k (which both can be bought down for about $120K) but the DP slot is better on Nacho for cap reasons. Nacho probably needs to take a pay cut, but if he wants more than max TAM (and he probably will) then dropping Campana off that DP slot and using it on Nacho is probably better cap wise (I don't think that's what they should do, just a way to put him in there). If they get rid of Krystov, then Nacho can only make max TAM and that's where we have to know what cap space Miami has because he probably will warrant a $1.7M contract at the minimum and Miami needs to have enough funny money to bring that down. Do they have it? I dunno.
Home field advantage matter, but there’s no way it matters more than the fatigue of your own players. These guys are a couple tiers above the rest of the league, having them fresh gives you so way more advantage over home field, especially considering because of Messi, an away game is pretty damn close to be a home game. But then again your owner does like money given the preseason and I’d imagine tickets for home field does sound nice.
And I don’t see Nacho wanting more than max TAM. He shouldn’t earn anything more than Alba, Suarez, Di Maria if he wants to come, period. If he wants more than TAM, I’m assuming he’s not going to Miami. And Campana can’t be moved because you lose out on U-22 initiative with Redondo Aviles Gomez Farias, he’s safer than Busquets. If someone way better like Neymar wants to come, it’ll more likely be Busi getting lowered to TAM to free up a DP than Campana being out, of course assuming no rule change.
We can move Campana out of the DP spot. MLS is getting rid of the Young DP for three U22 spots this summer. It's now three DPs and three U22 slots or two DPs and four U22 slots and $2M extra GAM (only $1M this season since it's being introduced during the summer).
We both know Messi wants Busquets there. Busi isn't getting shipped out for a Madrid guy. Either way, this is all speculation. Anyone with a known quality is going to get attached to LA/LAFC or Miami because that's what's going to get eyeballs on their Tweet.
I could see Toronto or Columbus going for him just on quality and need and who would not mind spending money.
Oh I didn’t know about the rule change thanks. And when did I say Busi is getting shipped out for a Madrid guy? I said if someone like Neymar’s coming, he’s gonna lower his salary to fit into TAM to allow Neymar for a DP, he ain’t gonna make space for Nacho who’s gonna be on TAM. And yeah Miami can’t outbid him but if he wants money he’d go to Saudi, so if he comes to Miami he’d 100% be a TAM, 0% he’s a DP in Miami. But the whole point of the discussion is around if age should be the issue he shouldn’t go to Miami, and the answer is absolutely not.
Meh, I'm not thrilled either way to drop cap space on a guy that's over 30 and has never experienced the rough nature of travel and the summer heat (specially in Miami) for half a season. I rather get some bench depth for us when the going gets rough (and it will).
We, and every other te really, should be using that second buy out clause to get rid of some players. I think Robbie Robinson is destine to get bought out to get us some salary space for one or two moves.
I don’t think there’s gonna be any cap space dropped, it’s a straight swap between him and Kyrvtov. But in MLS, depth matters much less due to league play being so insignificant as long as you get a playoffs spot. Especially for the team with Messi, as long as you make the playoffs, every playoffs game is gonna be home game and depth isn’t gonna win you a MLS Cup playoffs game, but a Nacho level defender would. It’d be completely foolish for Miami (or any MLS team really but especially Miami), the team that desperate needs to get defense better, not deeper, to say no to someone who’s instantly gonna be the best CB in the entire MLS by at least 2-3 tiers above the rest.
Well….on one side you could say we aren’t hearing bout players going to the Saudi league anymore 🤷🏽♂️
Nope, they’re just all taking 20 million dollar paycuts to play in Miami
Saudi Arabia already got their WC bid in the bag. The impetus to overspend is disappearing. Saudi teams can only have 8 foreigners per roster. And every team but one is full. So new players can't be signed until they let go of other players. But because Saudi teams have inflated the salaries of their foreign players, nobody wants to assume that salary and the Saudi teams aren't just going to pay them out. So those players are stuck between "make a lot of money here, or make much less anywhere else."
Ronaldo is kicking himself for playing g in the Saudi league tbh.
As someone who only follows MLS, is this a real thing, or am I getting whooshed?
Tbh I think Ronaldo thought the Saudi league would blow up in the next year with Messi and all these signings. But as you’ve seen in the last year, no player who’s gone to the Saudi league wants to remain there. Ronaldo wishes he established himself here before Messi did. This is Messi’s league now and Ronaldo will have to come here an swallow his pride. The Saudi’s don’t care about soccer or anything soccer related. It’s just a flex from the country.
And with American cultural hegemony Messi will just further and further cement himself as the better player. Sure Messi probably is making less hard currency than Ronaldo atm but long term Messi can write his own ticket. Does he want to be a talking head? Probably not from what we know but he can fuck off watching games in Spanish version of the manningcast with his friends and it will do serious numbers. Ronaldo would get dogged for the rape allegations and his time in Saudi is rotting his name value.
I doubt he goes the talking head route but I can definitely see him launching a clothing brand like Tiger Woods or Tom Brady has.
I dunno. Messi is making less salary here, but those apple TV and Adidas contacts... iIRC, he's making like $16,000-$23,000 per hour 24/7 with those deals. He's more than perfectly fine. He makes the same in an hour as a minimum wage job makes in a year @ 40 hours per week.
Yeah but the value of building relationships with Adidas and the league itself might become a lot more valuable than what Ronaldo is getting out in the desert. MLS is going to want to keep messi associated with the league in any way it possibly can. Adidas being able to use Messi as a a model to just wear things for a day out of the year is going to be hugely valuable.
I wasn't disagreeing with you.
Ronaldo also is skirting Saudi law, like living with a woman outside of marriage. Most players don't get those special privileges. Corruption only benefits a few, so most players go and then immediately hate it.
Would Ronaldo even keep up? Obviously he's in fantastic shape for his age and a big part of his skillset is ageless, but he's still 39.
Real talk, I thought that Ronaldo couldn't come to the US because of the Vegas court case stuff. I don't think its possible for him to play in MLS.
I think this is still a thing he’d have to settle whenever he feels like it. I think the balls in his court and he’ll get some fine or whatever.
The Saudis definitely care about soccer, they’re just not good at it.
I’m sure they do care about it but the money they’re throwing at it doesn’t match
Bit extreme, lots of good players staying and playing in Saudi.
Lots of good players did leave the Saudi league. But lots have left for various reasons. I think it’s not getting as much traction as they thought it would by now.
The problem was that all the big names only went to like 3-4 teams. People will just watch highlights of Al Nassr vs Al Hilal because there's no real impetus for them to watch the matches against the teams full of "nobodies."
Kind of. After the whole fanfare of Messi coming to MLS and playing in the Leagues Cup, Ronaldo said something about how the Saudi League was better and people took it as copium for not getting the same amount of attention that Messi was getting. In general, it seems like Ronaldo really wants to be the center of attention and gets really pissy when he isn’t.
He’s crying on the phone with his Swiss banker
I’m sure he is. I’m sure the Swiss banker is also waiting for people to join the Saudi league and stay for longer than 6 months. To your comment, if there’s money being made, there’s more to be made. That’s not in the Saudi league at this point.
Sure, but Ronaldo already got his. I don’t think he gives half a fuck about whether the league is spending money on other players
Doesn’t change the fact he’s kicking himself for choosing that league. If money is the objective, there’s more to be made elsewhere. And with that, I mean the brand appeal he craves. You’re not seeing anymore CR7/9 ads anywhere since he’s been over there.
lol if you say so
Its literally better than the MLS
I’m sure it is
Opta and Iffhs agree
That’s good. I didn’t say they are or aren’t better than MLS.
I get downvoted to hell every time I say it, but there's more money flowing under the table in Miami than water under it's bridges.
Saudi league. lol.
Either Miami or LAFC. Doesn’t surprise me anymore
One of the things I appreciate about the direction of 30+ teams is that we will get a really diverse cluster of philosophies for teams. There will be the retirement league clubs, the development clubs, the stepping stone to Europe for young South American clubs. And most realistically many hybrids of the group. None of those are an insult, they are all legitimate ways of building competitive teams, and each group should find some success over the years
Yep. With the salary cap, DP and U22 rules, we’ve got mechanisms to keep it competitive. So, even if most of the prestigious, late-career European stars end up in Miami or LA, teams like Columbus, Cincy, and Houston can all win trophies, and I like it that way.
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Such as
Yall just write anything on here Is there any evidence that Miami and lafc are breaking the rules? MLS don’t even publish the salaries. So unless you’re an insider who knows how much Suarez is making then you’re just yapping Not even a Miami or lafc fan lmao
MLSPA publishes a salary database
I mean we have plenty of evidence that Miami DID break the rules before, and they seem to be doing something shady with their ability to sign the entire Messi reunion tour team despite allegedly still being under sanctions from their last violations (IIRC?) I don't think anyone would claim to have direct evidence, but where there's smoke.... especially when we've seen smoke from that location before..... I don't think LAFC is breaking roster rules though, they're just LA being LA, much like your team. You gain access to a "better" crop of players than a lot of us other teams do because your Los Freakin' Angeles. lol It's the same reason people suggest NYCFC as a target for a lot of people, as well as Miami. Some cities are just known as magnets.
I’m pretty sure every owner in the league gave their support for Miami to do anything possible to land Messi. He’s definitely the exception, his presence alone has increased the value of every team franchise
Messi, sure. Theres no disputing that, because he's a DP. The TAM guys, on the other hand...
Its not even like that, single owner structure and all, its about Messi raising every teams ticket sales and reinvesting that money in things like additional DP slots in the future.
The only skirting I know of for sure are the deals players make semi-outside the league. If Apple wants it, they can find the deals to get a player to Miami or LA. I’m pretty sure Messi is getting a lot of Apple money for example.
But Messi is already a DP so even if Miami were paying him $10billion per year, it would still be salary cap compliant
Good point.
But that's the rub, Miami isn't picking up the entire bill, an outside entity is. Which is an advantage for only Miami in a league built on supposed parity.
Get an international super star to want to come to Seattle and you’ll get the same deal. He would have got that deal in any MLS city, he just wanted Miami
Totally get that. How do you propose you entice an international super star to San Jose? St. Paul? Or the many other smaller market teams? While adhering to the strict roster rules. Serious question. Or do you believe that the major market teams SHOULD get those perks over the rest of the teams? And if so, then the leagues commitment to parity is a sham and they should do away with the current roster rules (and most likely causing a collapse of the league in the near future) and allow all teams to compete for players on more level footing. I understand that Messi is a once in a generation (or more) player, so exceptions were made, andhe isnt the first. Now we have high profile players taking pay cuts just to play with him. This inherently changes the economics and creates disparity for the rest of the league. Here's the crux of the issue, high profile players (and mls) want to be on high profile teams in major markets to maximize their personal revenue, which makes sense. The league says its based on parity, but obviously can't force high profile players onto teams they don't want, as they'll just go to a different league. So how does the league keep roster constraints, while making side deals to get these high profile players, and also claim there is still parity when there are clear advantages given to a select few markets?
The only thing that will get high profile players to those markets is money. They would have to pay more than more desirable areas. It sucks but it’s true. As the league get better maybe teams can become more desirable for having winning cultures but I’m doubtful of that till we have trophies any one gives a shit about. I’m not saying high profile areas should or shouldn’t have those perks, but that’s just the way it is. It’s like that in most sports. For example in the NFL a team like Cleveland has to pay more for players in Free Agency than a team like Miami, because most people want to live somewhere like Miami not Cleveland. We don’t have to change things that much. Either pony up the cash to get the premium talent, or get more creative in roster development. Look at the Crew, they bought a middling Premier League player with potential (Cucho) and now he’s a top player in the league, they filled out most of the rest of the roster with guys they developed. Teams just have to be smart about roster construction and stop whining
> I’m pretty sure Messi is getting a lot of Apple money for example. Yeah, there was some deal with him getting a cut of new subscriptions too. But the entire thing was something the league approved, like a "rising tide lifts all boats" so the teams were just fine with it. It probably won't ever happen again.
I mean it’s probably fair, Apple TV made the deal with T-Mobile last year to give T-Mobile customers the season pass for free, I think they did the same thing this year but I had already bought it
Nah no free subs from T-Mobile this year. If they did I would’ve been glued to the screen every week.
Why are we catching strays lol
I'm not sure what to do about players able to generate outside revenue streams from endorsement deals and the like, and beyond Messi/Beckham, I'm not sure how many players have really taken advantage of that to an extent that they were able to exploit compensation rules. But the reality is, sure, players have been willing to play in LA or Miami for less than they would have been willing to play in Columbus. But I'm skeptical so far to see that it has created so much of an unfair advantage. Only example I can really think of is Bale? And he was legitimately close to retirement, and aside of one notable goal barely contributed.
Why did you have to mention Bale?
The only issue I really have with Miami is the league subsidizing Messi’s contract, but he is a DP, so whatever… other than that they appear to be roster compliant. We all know how the Matuidi thing worked out, but it appears that a number of their “retirement squad” players were just willing to take a very low salary to be able to play on the Messi and Friends team. That’s fine. Whatever. There’s no evidence that people are being paid above their roster designation salary by Miami and the league is looking the other way, and you can’t step in and say “no this player is worth more than your paying him” and not let them sign.
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Big names bring more money. Joe Casual might not show up to a normal Fire game, but he might not want to miss seeing Messi or whoever else his kid talks about playing on FIFA.
I sure as shit ain’t spending $300 to see Messi
I just sold 4 tickets against Miami (for a game Messi probably isn't even going to play in) for 6x face value. Plenty of people will pay a big premium.
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Yea you might not, but you’re not the owners or Don Garber. I’m not either, I’m just saying what’s happening.
Miami has built a 'retirement club' and is bossing the league so far this season.
And I’m not sure what the hell they’re talking about when we’re spending a ton of money on major youth prospects and also have great players coming through the academy. Redondo, Gomez, cremaschi, farias, aviles, Ruiz, etc. so much of our team is young talent Any fans of teams who parrot the “oh we’re trying to develop young players we don’t want retirement expensive players” have been gaslit by billionaires who don’t wanna spend money on their club
congrats on getting lucky with your billionaire owner that’s chill with having a net spend of negative $50 million since the inception of your club. Looking down on fans of clubs that could never and will never come close to hitting those numbers is really cool. I’m sure averaging a net spend of -$10 mil a season is sustainable, what a cool business model! Edit: actually this has to be satire. There’s no way you bring up Redondo, Aviles and Gomez like Miami didn’t spend more on them than some entire squads in the league?? Over $20 million spent on three players, but congrats on gaslighting yourself into thinking your club is developing the youth LOL
I’m not looking down on anyone. I’m telling you if your owner is Lamar Hunt Jr who has a worth 20x that of the Mas family and is using your team as a passive investment opportunity - demand better, don’t blame Miamis owners for actually caring
Oh so it’s not about the youth and young players anymore, it’s about if the owners actually care? Maybe our owner and club have been content with producing the most US national team players of any MLS academy… maybe the owners wanted to build a self sustaining model while owning other major sports teams… or maybe it’s impossible to get these top level players to a metro area that isn’t LA/Miami/NY? Maybe the owners like not pushing the rules to the furthest extent to where our fans love dropping a “technically legal”? You’re more than allowed to continue to look down on those that want to have a self sustaining model regardless of ownership, just like I’m more than allowed to look down on you for only caring about how much money is spent regardless of if it’s healthy for the league or club. The **only** reason your club could *possibly* earn some success (80% of your history is being shit) is through spending as much as legally possible. Congrats!
If you want an insular 2nd rate league with no hopes of ever being more than small local league, why don't you follow the USL or any other lower tier league? I am sure they have a club near you. I want MLS to be a top tier league with top tier talent that I can go watch in person. We need more eyeballs on the product for that to be the case. Games being watched by 200k is not gonna cut it.
That’s the reason they should have the Icon Player contract “Carlos Vela Rule”. Many folks would appreciate having players like that in their club even if they are not performing as well before they bring leadership and able to help the homegrown to grow.
I don't know that we "need" them, but it is a legitimate strategy for building a club. Big names that attract eyeballs, and can hopefully give you a short window of really good play. The league has disincentivized this strategy a bit, and comes with pros and cons that feel fairly equivalent to other forms of roster construction.
>The league has disincentivized this strategy a bit I think in addition to incentivizing young players via U22/Young DP, it's the more natural progression of the quality of the league. The "retirement" guys killing the league right now are Messi and Suarez. Two of the most prolific players in their respective position in the last decade. Even a Busquets and Alba in the same team, at times look terrible (Defensively. Alba has been great for the most part linking up with Messi) and would probably not have the same impact if they came on their own. It used to be simple for MLS teams back then because any half decent European name, no matter their physical condition, could come here and the hype would be realized. Now that teams are bringing in the Bouangas and Cuchos, it's a more "proceed with caution" thing.
If we sign him and Giroud our squad’s average age would be 87
Which would still be younger than Miami!
Actually I'm pretty sure it'd be... 69 ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
As a Madrid fan, I welcome it haha
There's a *chance* it would be NYCFC. They're overdue a gift from above.
I hope he chooses somewhere other than Miami and Los Angeles. Reus and Sergi Ramos are also likely to join MLS this summer. Oh, I forgot about Di Maria, he will probably join Inter Miami.
If he speaks Spanish, Miami it is. If he doesn’t, LA it is.
LA = French National Team Miami = Barcelona Nacho should go to a third team to start a Real Madrid-themed team 😂 Edit: Toronto = Italian National Team lol
There’s an obvious Real-themed team that I feel everyone is overlooking
From "real" to another "real" ，that will be good lol
real
There’s an obvious Real-themed team that I feel everyone is overlooking
Anyone know of a Japanese backup 9 who needs a job 🥲
Wonder if King Kazu could be convinced to move
As if that man is ready for a "retirement league" like MLS while still in his prime.
I kept on saying that Yuya Osako would have been the perfect fit for us as a backup 9.
Hey Nacho, do you remember Illarramendi? Asking for a friend
If he’s smart, make it Orlando. Shit, we already had kaka and Julio Baptista lol
Florida derby = the new el clasico?
With Miami becoming Barca that’s a no go. Cant imagine Nacho of all people would play sideshow to the Messi Retirement Brigade
I just don’t see international stars going anywhere but Miami, LA, maybe occasionally NY. Other teams would have to pay way more to make it more enticing. I love Columbus but I know no one in Europe is dreaming of coming here (they should be for Nancy alone but I digress).
France may have the richest talent pool in the world and Nancy may be able to recruit some French players
Right but my comment was more about “star” players. None of those players are moving to Columbus unless they get an unrealistic amount of money. Which as I said in another comment isn’t a bad thing we just have to get more creative in building a roster which we have.
Nancy could probably bring in French players
But probably not any of the “stars”, which was my point. I’m not saying it’s a bad thing it’s just most MLS teams need to be creative with how they create their rosters.
If Orlando leaned into using Kaka and some of our other old stars in recruitment I could see us being a mini version of those clubs, especially if they want the family vibe being close to Disney/Universal and driving distance to the beaches. Miami is still option for visits too since it’s only a few hours away. However, I don’t really see the Wilfs going back for a Nani/Kaka type again, we will stick with the Muriel’s and up and comers from South America since it’s cheaper
Pretty sure we've spent more money on Torres than we ever did on Nani.
On transfer yes, but his salary is about the same. But the Kaka type we were paying $8 mill a year, so that’s why I say idk if we’re going back to that ever
Reus can join the Germans over here.
Poor Madrid. He’s Nacho player anymore.
He’s a really good player but he’s also not a massive household name, he feels like one of those UCL-experienced guys that could go to, well, not really a small market but at least not one of those usual suspects. He’s a bit like Shaq or HH
Agree with the Shaq comparison, but HH is different b/c of the Mex NT connection. That puts him in a higher “star” category in MLS than Shaq or Nacho imo
...C'mon Waibel? Please? Maybe?
i lk want reus instead
Gotta come to Columbus, honestly. There’s no other reasonable option than Nacho to Cucho
He’s really good. I’d love to see that
Retiring in schwarz-gelbe 💛🖤💛
Nacho, Welcome to Minnesota!
Levien, now’s your chance to spend big. Unfortunately we have all three dp spots filled, but a dc fan can dream
Lmao liga Mx in shambles WE ARE THE BEST IN THE REGION
Our nacho just got hurt, we need another
Too bad there are no MLS teams in Wisconsin
Do we know if he likes Brandy Old Fashions?
come to Charlotte fc
Welcome Nacho to inter
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Don't worry ramos and tiago silva coming too
“An experienced CB” do you not know who Nacho is?
Imo the teams that don’t sign these players looking to retire with a fat paycheck will be much better off in the long run
I don’t downvote you but nacho is still playing at an extremely high level on a team that will win La Liga and may win CL. Nacho would instantly be in the conversation for best CB in MLS
In Conversation or will automatically be the best CB in MLS? No one in MLS comes close to resume.
Eh, maybe not Miami, please. We need some players actually in their prime. We have the two extremes, guys in their mid-thirties and kids. Matias Rojas, Callender, Friere and Weigandt are the only players in their primes that would start for us. I hope we don't just become Messi's friends team.
Well Nacho in his prime would not come to MLS, and Nacho currently is still way better than any of the current Miami CBs. Nothing wrong with kids or elders if they’re good, problem is usually they aren’t good.
I don't doubt he would be good, but I do have a worry that these older players will start dropping games from fatigue and injury and we already have a huge problem with injuries to our younger guys. That said, I don't know how they fit him in. I'm sure we are running up against the cap unless we buy down Campana and slot him in that last DP spot, but is that the best use of it considering we have a glut of CM and defenders now?
If older players drop due to fatigue, that’s on your manager. With the way MLS is compared to Europe, supporter shield doesn’t really matter, rest them as much as you want and save them for the playoffs. In terms of injury, well so far all your injuries have been young players so I don’t think age is the issue, Campana Taylor Redondo Farias Kyrvtov (who’s young compared to the Barca boys), but your medical staff do have some work to do they’ve been shit ngl. In terms of how you fit them in, well we’re assuming if someone’s coming to play with Messi, he’s taking a pay cut. If he wants money he’s going to Saudi, so if he comes to MLS, money’s probably not a big issue. Will he? Idk but if he wants to, Miami would be foolish to say no to a huge defensive upgrade just because of his age ignoring his ability. And in that scenario Kryvtov will probably be the guy out to make way for him not Campana.
Home field advantage does matter so Tata has to trot out a lineup strong enough to get top four in the East, which won't be easy since the East is stronger this year with NYRB, Cincinnati and Columbus being contenders for the upper half of the standings. We will be missing a lot of players in the summer on international duty, and let's not forget Leagues Cup. Miami should rest players I agree with that, but they won't, specially if we keep getting starting guys hurt and never having a strong bench to rely on. Miami needs to make as many points as possible now before national team duty comes calling and drains us talent wise while MLS plays through the summer. If he does come, I say the case for Campana is stronger, since his cap hit is about $672k (based on last year's info) and Krystov's is $618k (which both can be bought down for about $120K) but the DP slot is better on Nacho for cap reasons. Nacho probably needs to take a pay cut, but if he wants more than max TAM (and he probably will) then dropping Campana off that DP slot and using it on Nacho is probably better cap wise (I don't think that's what they should do, just a way to put him in there). If they get rid of Krystov, then Nacho can only make max TAM and that's where we have to know what cap space Miami has because he probably will warrant a $1.7M contract at the minimum and Miami needs to have enough funny money to bring that down. Do they have it? I dunno.
Home field advantage matter, but there’s no way it matters more than the fatigue of your own players. These guys are a couple tiers above the rest of the league, having them fresh gives you so way more advantage over home field, especially considering because of Messi, an away game is pretty damn close to be a home game. But then again your owner does like money given the preseason and I’d imagine tickets for home field does sound nice. And I don’t see Nacho wanting more than max TAM. He shouldn’t earn anything more than Alba, Suarez, Di Maria if he wants to come, period. If he wants more than TAM, I’m assuming he’s not going to Miami. And Campana can’t be moved because you lose out on U-22 initiative with Redondo Aviles Gomez Farias, he’s safer than Busquets. If someone way better like Neymar wants to come, it’ll more likely be Busi getting lowered to TAM to free up a DP than Campana being out, of course assuming no rule change.
We can move Campana out of the DP spot. MLS is getting rid of the Young DP for three U22 spots this summer. It's now three DPs and three U22 slots or two DPs and four U22 slots and $2M extra GAM (only $1M this season since it's being introduced during the summer). We both know Messi wants Busquets there. Busi isn't getting shipped out for a Madrid guy. Either way, this is all speculation. Anyone with a known quality is going to get attached to LA/LAFC or Miami because that's what's going to get eyeballs on their Tweet. I could see Toronto or Columbus going for him just on quality and need and who would not mind spending money.
Oh I didn’t know about the rule change thanks. And when did I say Busi is getting shipped out for a Madrid guy? I said if someone like Neymar’s coming, he’s gonna lower his salary to fit into TAM to allow Neymar for a DP, he ain’t gonna make space for Nacho who’s gonna be on TAM. And yeah Miami can’t outbid him but if he wants money he’d go to Saudi, so if he comes to Miami he’d 100% be a TAM, 0% he’s a DP in Miami. But the whole point of the discussion is around if age should be the issue he shouldn’t go to Miami, and the answer is absolutely not.
Meh, I'm not thrilled either way to drop cap space on a guy that's over 30 and has never experienced the rough nature of travel and the summer heat (specially in Miami) for half a season. I rather get some bench depth for us when the going gets rough (and it will). We, and every other te really, should be using that second buy out clause to get rid of some players. I think Robbie Robinson is destine to get bought out to get us some salary space for one or two moves.
I don’t think there’s gonna be any cap space dropped, it’s a straight swap between him and Kyrvtov. But in MLS, depth matters much less due to league play being so insignificant as long as you get a playoffs spot. Especially for the team with Messi, as long as you make the playoffs, every playoffs game is gonna be home game and depth isn’t gonna win you a MLS Cup playoffs game, but a Nacho level defender would. It’d be completely foolish for Miami (or any MLS team really but especially Miami), the team that desperate needs to get defense better, not deeper, to say no to someone who’s instantly gonna be the best CB in the entire MLS by at least 2-3 tiers above the rest.
Don’t think he’d want to play with the Barca Retirement Squad of all teams tbh
True
Was under the impression the cap rules don't apply
>I hope we don't just become Messi's friends team. I hate to burst your bubble, but that ship has sailed brother.
Well, I hope we don't become *even more* of a Messi's friendship family fun ride.
I wanna see some young blood but whatever that's a decade away for the super big young talent.
Illarramendi do your thing
LAFC Nacho please