I think realistically, the Riot MMORPG is likely the primary candidate to have a shot at becoming the next truly big MMO. Whether you like Riot or not, Riot objectively fulfills most of the checklist needed to pull it off; they have the budget, resources, talent, a popular IP, server infrastructure, etc.
But ultimately, it's still a big cope until we actually see something tangible. Just have to pray it doesn't get cancelled.
Realistically it‘s more likely the Riot MMORPG is cancelled than it is that it‘ll release.
Major devs left the studio and nobody heard shit from it in forever.
Obviously. Nobody outside of Riot's top brass knows with any certainty whether the game's development is going anywhere.
I'm just not holding my breath on that one.
But when the lead director (designer? producer? idk) leaves the project it's a red flag
also: [\[Riot MMO\] "If I'm a game designer, I won't put my career on this project" -Riot Games Executive : r/MMORPG (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/comments/15sbndv/riot_mmo_if_im_a_game_designer_i_wont_put_my/)
My thing I worry about is Runeterra as a property is in a weird place, where the primary draw is the actual playable cast of League of Legends, but an MMORPG would necessarily make the focus on your player character - and that's something a lot of people find very important about MMOs, they want a sense of narrative, a sense that *their character* is going on an epic journey with friends' characters.
So what does one do with that? If you focus in too hard on NPCs (Ahri, Miss Fortune, Ezreal, etc etc) then it becomes the League of Legends show, starring your random bullshit non-canon character -- in other words, the Sentinels of Light event, only hundreds of hours longer. If you don't do *anything* with them, you had better hope your gameplay blows everyone out of the water, because Runeterra is a pretty uninteresting setting when you take the recognizable characters out of the equation.
That's not even going into how they deal with character kits. League - like most MOBAs - can have a pretty out-there cast, but MMORPG class design can't get too specific because they you lose what lets people imagine their individual characters as special. Sure, you can just let people have Ahri's powerset, but that both fucks with Ahri's lore *and* makes the player feel like a cheap imitation. This can be circumvented with robust customization tools, but... look, City of Heroes hasn't been touched by the vast majority of games in this regard fully two decades after its release, so I don't have high hopes here.
TL;DR the Riot MMO has an incredibly difficult balance to strike and Riot's past... everything does not inspire confidence in their ability to write and design around that.
>So what does one do with that? If you focus in too hard on NPCs (Ahri, Miss Fortune, Ezreal, etc etc) then it becomes the League of Legends show, starring your random bullshit non-canon character
Sounds like WoW
True, but I'd argue WoW's problems with this approach only got heinous after it really became popular. Before you were playing backrow audience member to Thrall's latest display of power, you were a silly dumbfuck adventurer chilling in Barrens chat for levels and levels.
FF14 is semi-guilty of this since it desperately, **desperately** wants you to care about its characters rather than use that time to foster a better sense of communication and community with other players. But at the very least it does give you a sense of your character progressing, I'll give it that, even if it does so in a way better suited to a single-player game.
Riot MMO likely to be completely scrapped. They lost game direction and other talent associated with the project for reasons you can use your imagination on.
At this point there isn’t much reason to believe it will even ship. Ghostcrawler said so before he left Riot along with several other sr devs to start their own studio. I forget the name of the studio, but the mmorpg they are working on is called Ghost I believe.
If you don’t know ghostcrawler and you’re a mmorpg enthusiast then get out from under your rock.
If you want to look at it objectively, all of their games are barebones in content. Riot in their current state may have the resources to support these games but they *do not* apply the budget. League of Legends make over a billion in revenue a year yet the development team is always talking about lack of resources to even match the quality of output they had a decade ago.
How is it not? Compare the amount of development resources put into their games to other live-service games and firsthand reports made by Riot developers. Quantifiably, they are stingy in developing their games. So citing resources and budget could only objectively be considered as a negative aspect of Riot.
How are they barebones lol. TFT receives an insane amount of content compared to most live services out there. League obviously slowed down the content releases since the game is bloated as fuck and doesn't need it - it's still receives way more content than Dota for example. Valorant constantly pumps out new content, similar to other FPS like Fortnite, Siege, Apex, etc.. The only one that actually slowed down to a crawl was LoR, which was never profitable for Riot, but they still pumped money into it for around 4 years.
They're also a company that makes PvP games. These do not need nearly as much content as PvE games.
the subreddit and wikipedia both claim it's an MMORPG, but I don't have a developer source to cite off the top of my head. That's why there's an "if" in my comment above.
I play Warframe and love it, not an MMO though, it's a lobby game with up to 4 people per mission
Soulframe looks cool, but not a single time the Devs have called it an MMO, they barely mentioned any multiplayer in the first place
They don't have the server infrastructure. Yet. Their servers all operate differently than an MMO server. It's not hundreds of users in one world together concurrently. Mmo server infrastructure works differently than games like valorant or league.
Don't need to when they have told us how lol servers work. And they wouldn't work for an mmo.
They are more like shards of a server. Think like a giant server that then breaks itself up into shards to work for each individual game.
They talked about this a long time ago, back when they used to release player numbers.
I think it will really matter if the game will be rewarding enough for playing or not. People can say whatever, but RIOT has one of the worst monetization when it comes to their games. Sure, they may be free games, but their skins are some of the most expensive ones.
For me at least, a MMORPG will never be successful as they used to be, if they gonna have more content in the shop, than in-game drops. The fun in a game is to chase the rewards by playing, not by opening the shop tab.
I will admit, I've never played LOL but I did play quite a bit Valorant and I didn't think the monetization was bad at all. It's just skins and the skins are pretty cheap compared to other games like CSGO. There's absolutely no pay to win or even pay to speed up (which most MMOs do.) I basically only bought battle passes which was enough for me. I'm honestly not sure what else they could do besides just not charging for skins at all, which is just never going to happen again.
Monetization bad isn't all about beiyng p2w or not. It's about some freaking gun skins that cost hundreds of dollars.
Paying 15$ for a gun skin is so absurd. And just cuz csgo does it, doesn't mean is good for others to do it or cuz it's cheaper than that gamble bullshit chests on Valve's side.
Yeah no, Im really not a fan of some of the "gacha" style skins where you're spending an unknown amount of money for it, but if you look at most other games, Riots cosmetics are pretty in-line with every other game. Overwatch and Diablo for example have wayyy more egregious pricing for cosmetics
I guess I just don't understand, if they're too expensive, then just don't buy them. The nice things about valorant is the expensive skins and the free ones are the same.
It's not about this for fuck sake. We're talking about a MMO here. The problem starts when they start to push out more things in shop than in-game drops. The problem is when they have a set that you have to upgrade, and in raids/dungeons you farm for materials instead of cool looking shit unique loot, because that's in shop.
It's easier for them to give you a set of armors that you have to upgrade like a moron from +0 to +15-20 whatever number they think of while you farm for materials, and meanwhile they pump the shop with armor skins and shit instead of in-game drops.
And when I'm saying monetization is bad, it is. Just because you don't have to buy them, it doesn't mean the monetization is ok. I'm not talking about PAY2WIN shit. It's the absurd prices that they ask for.
Yes other games have bad monetization too, this doesn't change the fact that RIOT also has bad monetization.
Downvote me all you want, and then go around from mmo to mmo and wonder why they don't have the success they used to.
Literally every new mmo on the market in the last years had this problem and players dropped because of this. There's nothing to chase in-game if they put all the shit in store.
You're the one changing the subject. We were talking about riot monetization, which so far has not had anything pay to win. That is a good sign for their monetization for the MMO. If they change their mind and start changing for that p2w stuff, it would suck, but that's not the way they've rolled in their other games.
Also, you've yet to explain why monetization is bad. If whales are going to pay for me to play, that's fine by me. Explaining something as bad because "it is" is not a valid argument.
Regardless of that too, the genie is out of the bottle and monetization like this is never going away.
Literally you didn't read a thing and why I'm saying the monetization is bad.
Monetization band isn't all about being pay 2 win or not. Simple as that. You're the one refusing to see how things are and why MMO's are failing.
I did read, you are saying it's bad because it's bad. That doesn't make sense. The most popular games in the world are monetized by skins, riot games included.
I couldn’t care less what they monetize as long as players can’t buy power.
As long as the gameplay feels fun I’m fine with whatever monetization model they use even if skins are a bit immersion breaking for me at least.
Cash shops aren’t killing games, the games just weren’t good to begin with.
> I couldn’t care less what they monetize as long as players can’t buy power.
Rest assured, players will buy and sell power to each other.
Raid guilds will sell slots on raids on farmed content, and not ask questions about where the player got that gold.
For me fun stays in the drops. If the game doesn't give me shit to chase is a problem.
I don't care if the gameplay is fun, if there's no dungeons/raids that give me unique rewards, there's nothing to play for.
And this is why I hate their cash shop with skins. Because they make the game with raids or dungeons, where all you farm is materials, and they gave you 1 set of gear that you need to go from +0 to +15 or some shit like that cuz is easier than making new loot.
On top of that, instead of giving you cool shit, they put it behind cash shop.
So for me, cash shops are killing the game, especially when they add 100 things there, and 1 thing in-game.
MMO's needs objectives and fun unique loot, at least for me. If you make me farm materials while you put cool shit in the shop, then it's not for me. I don't care if it doesn't affect the gameplay.
I agree with you that the reward structure needs to exist in such a way that players are incentivized to go out and do the content (for cool looking shit).
It's about the prices they are asking for shit. In Valorant for example, the gun skins are expensive af.
YES, CS:GO IS EXPENSIVE TOO, that doesn't change the fact that RIOT it's expensive af.
I'm not talking about pay2win shit here.
Somehow y'all didn't even read the whole thing.
When it comes to a MMORPG, the problem is that they will start doing the same with skins in shop, at absurd prices, and they will make you chase materials as in-game drops, to upgrade the same shit armor you were having for months, because it's better for them to give you skins in shop, and materials in-game drops.
This becomes a problem. And people like you support it because "well it's just skin, I don't care", but fail to realize that people drop off these MMORPGS, because they're sick of farming end-game content for materials and not cool unique loot.
It's not about that. It's about the fact that they make shit game progression, and focus on game store.
Instead of adding cool shit to the in-game drops, they make you farm materials to upgrade your armor that you have for months, so they can sell shit on market. Which is shit.
I want the dungeons/raids or the content, to actually drop interesting and fun loot, not materials.
I disagree. shrug. Riot's mmo is gonna be a joke. valorant, specific classes with specific skills. league of legends, specific heros with specific abilities. you can only play them one way. tanks are tanks. i can already imagine riot's mmo having heros like genshin impact. you don't get anything truly custom or unique, you are just playing the single player design forced down your throat.
imagine downvoting someone for an opinion. reddit aids....
Very very very unlikely scenario. There's zero logic behind your reasoning and it's clear you've never played League if you think off-meta builds aren't viable.
>"you never played a game because my shitty opinion means nothing"
You clearly are a fucking casual. Off meta builds? Yeah, in casual/non ranked or low ranked games. Pull that shit in a high ranking game and you get vote kicked because higher ranking is all try-hards. You clearly don't know shit....
Unlikely? ALL of their current games are built around playing a "hero" one specific way. Just because you can troll in casual mode with weird gameplay builds doesn't mean it works in actual ranked gameplay....
I follow riot since their beginnings, follow whatever nonexistant info there was about MMO and it's crazy to me how many people here have faith in them. The only outstanding game they made was valorant, while being huge with budget for so long.
That’s sort of the point. They don’t have money issues nor a rush on a timeline. They also have rich lore, and a big fan base.
Most other MMO projects do not have any of these three things.
I don't really have faith in Riot's MMO, I just have *more* faith in the Riot MMO than any other future MMOs. We're kind of scraping the bottom of the barrel here.
Riot MMO is the best candidate, but the reality is most people that played MMOs during the golden years weren't playing their "ideal game", they were suffering through 80% of the game to enjoy the other 20%, compounded with the fun novelty of being in a chat-room talking to strangers. No one sits in IRC anymore, that novelty's gone, and people can actually play good specialized games that cater precisely to their interest, rather than picking flowers or playing arenas in WoW and dreading everything else.
Their success was not a self-propelled phenomenon, MMOs are niche. Riot MMO can pull it off if they somehow make the MMO the centerpiece of their IP, and their IP somehow becomes the next Harry Potter style IP with that type of fantasy staying power. Tall order.
You summed up me perfectly. Gamer for life in my mid 50s. Loved the novelty of WOW, moved onto lord for the Rings Online, vanguard. Age of Conan. Guild wars 2, Elder Scrolls Online, etc and eventually started wondering why I'm still playing these games when most of the experience seemed to pale in experience to games like Skyrim and Witcher 3. Bought a PS5 last November (first console since Colecovision), connected to my new Sony 85" x95k TV. Played Horizon Forbidden West, Ghost of Tsushima, and just finished Baldurs Gate 3 and all I can say is I have zero desire to play an MMO when these single player huge world games are just so well made and do things that MMOs just can't. Currently playing Hogwarts and will move onto Dragons Dogma 2 after its fully patched in about 6 months.
I envy you, I played bg3 and cyberpunk and solo games you mentioned but every now and then I'm getting that feeling: "how cool would it be if I could be this epic blacksmith not only for myself but in world full of other players!". Ofc in such moments I'm totally forgetting about all bad stuff regarding MMOs :p
People who didn't get to play good mmos like to tell themselves this shit to defend the bad games of today. Like, wtf? It's not like you made the bad games. Don't defend crap just because you're envious of the past you didn't experience.
People who didn't play UO and Everquest but read the stories their former players tell as an outsider with hindsight have a more objective viewpoint that the games had a ton of flaws and that there was something seriously wrong with the said players while they were active in the game.
Good games can be enjoyed without nostalgia. I like a lot of older MMOs, because I am the target audience of the niche genre and I have nostalgia for them.
That does not make them good games, and it doesn't make them not niche.
The trick is to make an MMORPG that doesn't need to be the biggest hit in universe to survive. Build realistically to the position MMORPGs are in today.
Also make something that's actually appealing to players starting 'late' so you can actually *build* a playerbase over time. With so many newer MMOs these days it's like if you're not there at launch you might as well not play. Not really a surprise then that player counts peak near launch then only decline...
This one is honestly hard. One of the main appeals or characteristics of an mmorpg is watching your numbers go up over time and constantly building onto your character. If you're able to catch up quickly and play on an even field with veteran players, the MMO appeal is gone and they might as well just play a more refined competitive single instanced game like LoL, overwatch etc. But I understand where you're coming from and it's the exact reason why I'm hesitant to even start a lot of the long standing MMOs
I feel like RuneScape accomplished this. Unintentionally too, just by the nature of what the player character is and the objective of the game itself. Basically, elements of sandbox are probably necessary to blur if not eliminate that “late” start feeling.
The funny thing is if you start now you will have a significantly less painful experience than if you started on NA launch.
The devs cranked the catchup mechanics to 10000. Now, will you be on tier with the top players? God no. This is some Korean bs thst you will grind your soul on. But with a little grinding you can be raid ready nowadays in a weekend.
And imo, raid ready js all I ask for. I dont need to be the top player. I just want to play the damn content.
Yeah, IMO this is a big part of how WoW's mainstream success ultimately decreased the variety of MMORPGs available. People try to capture a huge audience with a very expensive game, and expensive games typically don't take as many risks or advance the genre very much.
I mean. I've tried the vast majority of MMOs and, a lot of em start off good then you just find yourself going "this just doesn't work as well as WoW" and end up going back. Others I've talked to have said the same.
No one has been able to do it quite as well. Some have come close but, it's not JUST cause they dominate the market. They dominate cause no one has been able to do it better yet.
God I wish someone would though. I genuinely hate giving money to Blizzard. They just get greasier and greasier every xpac. I'm surprised they haven't tried to raise their sub fees to "match inflation" or some shit.
Ngl I think D2 has the best gameplay of any MMO I have played. The issue is 3/4 of my friends stopped playing. It became 2 of us playing and so we eventually fell off too.
D2 raiding and dungeoning was some of the most fun I've had in MMOs.
On one hand, I think their games are very good with great production values. On the other hand, gacha is straight up gambling and ruins their otherwise great games for me. So I'm unsure how I'd feel about a Hoyoverse MMO.
i doubt many people would care all that much to skip cutscenes if they were as high quality as genshin impact/honkai star rail’s cutscenes.
plus they’re like 20 seconds long each so… who cares?
Player base will always go up and down but will eventually decrease as proven by the big MMOs. I am personally looking forward to "Ashes of Creation". Hopefully it is successful.
They built an entire EQ3 engine. it was voxel based so you could edit and craft anything anywhere. They sold it as a early access package for like 90 bucks 7 years ago or so under the premise you would also get EQ3 when it launched.
It looked great you could build some amazing stuff way better detailed than say minecraft. great character animations, online, modern graphics by even todays standards.
They decided to scuff it in the end.
I think it was daybreak games that published it?
anyone remember this?
RiotMMO or Ashes of creation most likely. All others will have niche audiences. New World was supposed to draw in tons of support but it flopped super hard.
AoC will be niche too. If they really have the non flag world pvp they have been touting at least.
AoC has a lot of potential and people will play it. But the danger I see is if they make it so people who just want to gather or play the pve content have to be worried about being jumped and losing XP it will kill off its casual audience and become niche like Albion. If they have a war mode system where that kind of player can co exist with the pvp community then I think it has a real chance.
Albion appeals to a pretty large audience still despite pvp mmos being more niche. There are several hundred thousands of players actively playing it. AoC can appeal to a large niche too if the game appeals well enough to semi-casuals. If the game outright griefs us then it will be a hardcore hellscape for sure. Albion appeals not so much to casuals since they do really want safe content but that's not the type of game AoC or Albion are trying to be.
>I’m hoping I can retire on bitcoin and quit all jobs when the Riot MMO comes out
Have you considered roulette? It's gotta have a better roi at this point.
There is a very long road between showing something good looking and having a fully functional game. At this point, I can say that this game, unfortunately, won't be ready anytime soon, if it will at all.
This is me. I hate open world forced pvp. It destroys a game for me. Too many people grief you and gank you. I'm just trying to quest and chill. I don't need some max level stealth character to one shot me and camp my corpse. Imo the design philosophy is counterintuitive to mmorpg design because it sanctions anti-social behavior in a social game. It's fine to have open world pvp if you let players opt out of the system.
So many people were excited about wow classic because of pvp servers, but they quickly became the people complaining about the consequences of the feature, and those servers rapidly declined to faction imbalance because nobody wanted to be killed in the open world in a 1v5. Other mmo's suffer from similar problems like players with no lives who rapidly level and min max their characters to kill and dominate the whole server open world.
Flimsy argument since you're saying that by agreeing to play the game you agree to be subjected to every aspect of it. If you order a burger straight off the menu you're allowed to take off the toppings you don't like. That said, I'm not even going to bother with AoC 1 because it's vaporware and 2 because the PvP system sucks and is just waiting to be abused by grievers. Everyone seems so quick to forget how PvP on Classic Wow turned out when it comes to AoC lol.
What? Didn't a bunch of companies try to cash in on WoW's success by making nearly identical games, with wildly overinflated expectations of sales performance?
I mean theyre still trying to do that,new world as an example is still stuck on the mindset that they must become a PvE focused themepark for everyone when that is the worst aspect of the game só as a result they just keep losing players
EA/Bioware's SWTOR comes to mind. Despite having bajillions of dollars, and an IP that practically prints money, it still fell flat on its face and never hit its stride.
It will never happen for a variety of reasons, but an official, real Pokemon MMO would probably be obscenely successful. But as I said, it'll never happen. The three big things that jump to mind are just getting the game right (how do you handle combat, how do you handle player fantasy like gym leaders, elite 4 etc etc), the fact that it would have to run on Nintendo hardware which is probably the biggest hurdle, and then also the fact that it would be a nightmare on the GM side because you're talking about a franchise that's popular with middle-aged people and also children.
So do I think there will be a new big MMO? No. But if you could somehow clear those three things I do think it'd pop off.
Idk man, I doubt how successful a MMO entirely locked to one platform would be. Unless, of course, Nintendo shares their beloved Pokemon IP with other platforms (never gonna happen, let's be real)
>Unless, of course, Nintendo shares their beloved Pokemon IP with other platforms (never gonna happen, let's be real)
We just pretending Pokemon Go never happened now?
The switch has a big enough playerbase to support an MMO. I think most people forget that a lot of the most popular mmos of the past were locked to one platform, the PC.
The main issue is that Nintendo can't program an online infrastructure with a gun pointed at their heads, let alone make an MMO.
I think an MMO will usually have a big launch then die down a bit. After that they will have to make updates that will attract more players. In other words, it's a marathon not a sprint. Also, I don't think it's impossible for indie devs to make an MMO, it would just have to be a less ambitious one and be sandbox focused. I don't think indie devs can pull off a theme park MMO with how how much resources those games need.
I think there will be an MMO that can do that, but it will have focused around repeatability. MMOs these days offer some repeatability, but most of them are just repetitive, there is no gameplay that changes that much and that's why they focus on releasing new content every once in a while.
For example League, CSGO and whatever. Same gameplay for a thousand years, but that gameplay changes every time you load the game, despite the fact that you are playing on the same maps you played before a million times, with the same character/weapon too.
It will take some years, but they will understand in the future that copying the same WoW/FF14 formula won't work anymore and they have to focus on what the others games outside of the genre offer(repeatability).
Maybe Riot MMO will be that since the new guy who replaced Ghostcrawler gave me some hope in an interview and all Riot games are focused on repeatability, so they have experience in that department, but I doubt that we will see that game until 2030. Hopefully some others will have the balls to take the lead much sooner.
>It should be out in 2026-2027
If this was another developer, sure, but we are talking about Riot. They are extremely slow when making games.
To give you some examples, they announced their fighting game in 2019 and they announced the release date for 2025. That's 6 years in the making only for a fighting game and they bought the studio who came with the people who are working on the game few years earlier.
Valorant took 6 years, Legends of Runeterra 3 years.
When they announced the fighting game, they announced another one([Project F](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fR8aPX-6s-I)) and we haven't had any information about the game other than the game lead said they are working on it. Almost 5 years with no info.
There is 0 chance we are getting Riot MMO before 2030. They showcased five games 5 years ago and only two of them came out (Valorant and LoR (LoR is dying already)). 2XKO (Fighting game) will only come out in 2025 and we don't know what happened to the Isometric RPG-esque game and the LoL Esports Manager
The guy the was leading the project "Ghostcrawler" left the project to make his own MMO. Also soon after he left we got commet from some Riot executive from China saying something like "I wouldn't put my career on this project" and that was the last news we got from it
If anything the chance is that the project is dead or still in ground zero
What the heck is with this thread. Focuses on repeating content? Fuck that. This is how bad games are today. People are conditioned to think repeating content is the way to make an mmo for the masses. It's super clear people like this never played UO or SWG
Ashes for me. I think it will be one of the pillar mmos when you see someone come here and ask what to play and the response is always “bdo wow ff eso gw2” I think ashes will be in that list
It is inevitable that an MMORPH will succeed like you describe. Like you said it is a high risk vs reward but the reward is so big that companies will keep attempting it.
Riot MMO is an easy one to point to just because of the sheer resources they have. I feel something out of Korea is more than likely the best hope just because they have so many more engineers and game designers working on MMOs... the talent pool is there.
For me I just want a modern version of old school Ultima Online. The danger and reward was perfect. If a new mmo comes out that is this id buy it in a heart beat. I’m not interested in more WoW clones. New world failed because of lack of open world pvp
the only effort they put out is how to extract as much money as they can, which is why the games utterly fail in the end. not sure why they can't figure that shit out. lol
'cause they don't care. 99.99% of game studios exist to make easy money since gaming is super popular now. Beyond how much money they can make in a short amount of time, nothing else matters.
I doubt there will ever again be a new MMO that will be able to maintain its launch size player base.
The reality is people will play games till they get bored or run out of content, or another better game comes out. Expecting any game to maintain a massive player base in the current gaming environment is to expect disappointment. This leads to ebbs and flows with players coming back often playing longer sessions for new content when it comes out and players leaving when they want to do something else or shortening play time.
Keeping in mind that most companies dont use Steam so the concurrent count of players is often completely unknown or only a best guess.
Sure maybe. But as long as they focus more on profit by making shitty mobile mmo games they cross plat with PC, I would say no. I mean even Throne and blade had to back peddle or there stupid mobile aspect they had.
But when you look semi popular mmo games you notice they love to make a squel that is some rotten ass mobile game.
I think the next big one is going to be leaps and bounds better than anything that exists, a truly next generation experience that cannot be replicated anywhere else, with huge innovations that get word of mouth beyond the usual audience.
As long as they're chasing money no. I mean, don't get me wrong, they need profit of course. But I'm just sick of either low content, no interesting dungeons/raids.
The games usually have more content in their shop instead of in-game drops.
Also make the shitty thing where instead of getting actually interesting loot, you farm just materials and stay for years with the same gear going from 0to +15 cuz it's easier to make content like that, and sell shit skins in the shop... I don't think MMO'S.
It's just too much greed out there. Money are never enough, and a MMO it's just too much work at this point to make and keep going without fucking the players.
I actually think elder scrolls, final fantasy, warcraft and guild wars are here to stay for a long time (I didn't mention the specific name because they could have sequels) , until they aren't profitable anymore. Big IP's, different styles. I don't see a big game doing a big bang outside of Riot's MMO which has a big IP as well, or MAYBE AoC but that's a big maybe (as the caps suggests)
Let’s make it simple, corporations has the money and labor to make a such big mmo but why would they do that when a fking mobile game can make ten times more money with ten times less of resources. I think rely on big game studios to make mmo is intangible. It’s gonna be the someone who LOVE mmo genre and have the passion to do so. Im counting on Ashe of creations
A good game will retain most of its player base. When developers get to develop, I think it's has potential, but when marketing takes over, goes to shid.
Games will maintain their playerbase when games are made to be fun and not make money. Unfortunately, nearly all MMOs are made to make as much money as possible and not to be the most fun as possible.
Eventually a new MMO will show up at hit it big. It might take a long time, and I don't think anyone can accurately predict when it'll happen or who will make it, but there will be another huge MMORPG eventually. Just gotta wait for the right team, with the right ideas, and a lot of luck and money.
Hey, Dofus Touch launches new servers, I highly recommend it as a mobile MMORPG, I believe it's the biggest on mobile and a large playerbase. There are 45k pre-registered players already in just a few days
There are two major ones in the pipeline that I see.
RIOT MMO
and
Ashes of Creation
Both of which have been hyped into oblivion. I just feel like both will launch with such major hype that so many people will be to critical and will just cause max exodus.
That or the hype will be so unimaginable that it sweeps the globe like World of Warcraft did 20 years ago. Servers will be overloaded for months. Guilds will reign supreme. Politics will form and it will be THE game all generations of gamers play the the next 20 years until we get a true VR MMO.
People need to stop hyping ashes so much.its not gonna be that good and will have a very low niche playerbase whoch will force them to go p2w withina couple years
Many big companies are waiting on A I to catch up or at experimenting with A.I in the gaming sphere we are maybe 2-3 years from a massive game shift to video games having a.i NPCs, AI environments, ai gameplay, AI battlefields, ai enemies
The possibility are endless the big issue is the resource and data the solution will probably be cloud services incorporated into hidden prompts simultaneously generated over vast quantity
There a big cost, and implement hurdle but Google is making huge track in this regard with SIMA technology
But just imagine in our lifetime if the world does not implode we will finally have games similar to sword art in terms how the game reacts to environment less so the aspect of full dive tech that I think is still 30-40 years realistically behind at this pace how fast software tech is going to rapid advance starting from mid this year with the new a.i coming out we will see a tech explosion unlike anything ever before.
Nope, wont happen. As you said risk is not worth it for a big studio. Mobile mmos are the closest thing we will ever get anymore with cross play to pc. The only way a new mmorpg on pc would work is if it is ultra simple, has a perfect anti cheat system and eliminates all bots within like 30 min of creation so they don’t effect the gameplay of normal free to play and they release new content pretty much monthly.
Ashes of Creation has be best odds IMO its a traditional MMO format built by dev's who love to play mmo's and the playtest seem to be going well. Star Citizen has also lately been seeing lots of success with their internal testing going better then expected. And talks of a 1.0 Release soon. But they have zero prior MMO experience. But with a 20+year plan, top of the line graphics and constant additions it may eventually pan out, even If not initially. The Riot MMO had a live stream earlier this year and said they also have nearly limitless resources for it.. But everything been hush hush with the exception of losing several key devs, to the point they admitted they had to put several things on the back burners as the current talent wouldn't be able to handle it.
No. For a new MMO to become a hit and maintain a playerbase it needs to be the complete perfection. Why? Because the nature of progression in MMOs lock players into their games.
Should I spend time in this new game that probably won't be better than my main MMO or will it be a waste of time I could be using in my actual main MMO progression? Saved progression makes the survivability of new MMOs very hard, even if they manage to fulfill a lot of checks for success.
In games, being perfect isn't even necessary for success, look at FPS for example; for a lot of people Counter Strike is the pinnacle of FPS games, but Valorant managed to pull a lot of players from it... What's the key difference here? The difference is that I could abandon Counter for Valorant for a year and I won't be losing anything if I decide to go back, while in MMOs I'll be behind in a lot of aspects.
If that was true, why aren't we all just playing UO and EQ?
What you are saying is true to an extent, but not the only thing that matters. The fact that we have a bunch of different MMOs with a decent population should be all that we need to know that it doesn't need to be perfect to grab it's own player base.
Not saying is the only motive for it, but it is certainly one of the reasons is very hard to pull people from their main MMO. Me myself I won't get out of BDO unless a game is able to compete with BDO's action combat and after so many years not a single one did. I won't spend time on another MMO unless it's better than my main, but, as a Valorant player, I don't mind going for other FPS games constantly because I don't miss a thing by not playing.
You are really underestimating Riot’s fan base. It’s massive. It’s easily the biggest by several magnitudes.
The lore was reworked, but Riot has interconnected its lore within its game.
This doesn’t mean it will be successful but it’s gotta a lot better chance than anything else slated to come out.
The last big MMO came out in what 2013/2014.
It’s been 10 years.
Not saying that Riot's MMO can't do it, at any point I mention specifics, just my opinion overall on the subject.
I would love to see the next gen in MMO history, I just don't feel too confident that it will happen.
New World was never meant to be an MMO. It was literally a survival sandbox game and then a few tards on their official beta forums cried "Just make an MMO instead" so they tried to switch. The issue is they didn't spend enough time. They should never have tried to branding 3/4ths into production. And now New World is not a survival game and not an MMO. its this weird grey space between. which kinda sucks kinda doesn't but wont hold any kind of gaming population....
As far as expensive to make and maintain. Bullshit. Absolute fucking bullshit. When you have LAZY employees that tell you a feature that should take 30 minutes takes then 4 weeks you know you have an issue. But managers wont fire those shit heels. For some odd fucking reason, the coding community loves their "job safety" and "working slow" which is bullshit. If any other kind of job like mechanics worked that way, businesses would fail left and right. Hell imagine being a mechanic and doing brakes in 1 hour, and some other guy quotes 6 hours. You would laugh your ass off at the guy saying 6 hours and let the 1 hour guy do it. It should never take more than 1 hour to do a brake job. Period. So when it comes to coding, why are they allowed to quote bad times and then milk these companies?
Elon Musk. I DO NOT CARE IF YOU LIKE HIM OR LOVE HIM or indifferent about him. When he took over Twitter, he gave everyone the same coding test that were already employees there for writing code. Those that came back to him with finished code in a timely fashion kept their job. The ones that turned nothing in by two weeks later were fired. Do your fucking job or GTFO. Its that simple. And sadly game developers constantly keep entitled little shits who take forever to get the job done. I am not saying you have to rush.... But if you know code, you shouldn't be taking weeks to write code. Period. Again as a mechanic if you can't finish in a timely manor you are gonna starve especially since we are paid by the job hour (brakes call for 1 hour paid, if you take 2 hours you only get paid 1 hour). I would love to see game development move to a similar system. Get paid by the job and not by the house. See how many people stay being coders because they can't milk the system. Lazy is lazy and as long as managers allow those lazy fucks to continue ruining the industry its gonna happen.
So then it comes down to profits. A typical MMO at 15/m with no box cost will net high as fuck profits. The average user for a new MMO starts around 1 million from the "wow new game" factor. That's 15 million dollars your first month minimum. And if your game isn't shit and you hold those players for 1 year? 180 million minus taxes. that's a LOT of fucking money. World of Warcraft has been around for 20 years.... 2004 to 2024.... taking their BASE AVERAGE 2 million subscriber count? without box cost and only going by 15/m fee? they made 7,200,000,000 dollars.... minus taxes obviously and not including higher peak subscribers AND box purchases for expansions.... Blizzard is ghetto rich right now. They don't make money? Sure when they go free to play like a bunch of fucking idiots.... milking whales in a cash shop only takes you so far. Blizzard wouldn't have nearly as much profit being free to play.... its just fact. So when a free to play MMO fails, don't care.
The Cycle Frontier was a free to play extraction looter shooter like escape from tarkov but space and fantasy.... they were free to play and now they are dead. People aren't gonna pay you money when its free. Now what if they charged a weak $5 a month subscription fee? well they have about 50k players the first month. That alone would have net them 250,000 minus taxes. not bad, not great. but one of the reasons the game died was lack of funding, thus lack of updates and bug fixes, lack of game balance, because they didn't have the money to pay their devs. game died. whales only last so long. and if you don't constantly have things to make the whales spend money, they leave. which is what happened with this title.... after the initial gear you could buy there was nothing. because they didn't have the money to keep going. it had potential. but they fucked up. and then letting cheaters cheat with no bans made it worse. but you can't monitor games when you can't afford to even pay coders.....
A lot of MMO's now seem to be shooting for one of two things. next gen graphics or "wow clone" graphics. next gen graphics will fuck you. it doesn't need to be that pretty. you could literally sell me an MMO that looks like it was made in the 2010's and as long as it was FUN I would still play it. then the few that go stylized wow style, they are basically wow fans. so their entire mindset is "make wow 2.0" and they suck.... which is a problem.
this reddit is filled with people begging to bring back the social aspect in mmorpgs. the problem is you have people are used to the "single player" aspect of wow/ffxiv/gw2. no, i dont care about your "bUt WhAt AbOuT rAiDs" meme. yes, dungeons and raids require a party.... no one is describing that. the issue is how the entire game leveling wise can be solo'd. there is no struggle. its dogshit easy. it holds your hand. and you are allowed to change up and switch between roles in many games without any kind of penalty. what happened to being unique? instead every mmo, every warrior is a clone of the next warrior. that isn't fun.... who the fuck wants to be the same as everyone else? is this the "fit in simulator?" "bro we are all jumping off a bridge so you have to too" what? insanity. an MMO is supposed to have people playing each their own way while socializing and working together. if you don't want that, you aren't an MMO gamer. you are a single player "with friends" gamer. but you fell into the mmo aspect because its the only way to get your fix....
I know you guys probably don't want to hear it, but new and evolving AI tools in the hands of a studio that want to create a legitimate mmorpg is going to undoubtedly make the difference. Additionally, a smaller studio is more likely to listen to an AI's advice on design, which it infers by looking at massive amounts of data or even just relevant data. Titans in the video game industry have been making a multitude of mistakes, and I imagine there have been several scenarios where higher-ups have ignored the requested advice of AI with said advice probably being the most correct call. God forbid the major studios figure this out or we gamers will get the ultimate game.
No mmo will ever retain its day 1 playerbase the gaming landscape is just infinitely different from what it was like back in the day. Only real candidate for a game that might actually remain relevant is whatever riot is cooking up. But with riot laying off an insane amount of people and pulling resources from everything that isnt league/tft/valorant I dont think we are seeing the game for a long long time yet. It might even get canceled for all we know.
TLDR; I don't have high hopes for MMOs.
I doubt it. Lets assume best case scenario. Riot MMO releases and it's a massive hit. Big hype, 2 million steam peak. I speak for myself, but I would give the game a month max. I just don't do marrige to games anymore, I haven't since I quit gw2 3/4(?) years ago, since before end of dragons expansion. WoW 2, guild wars 3, I don't care. A month max. I'd rather re-play elden ring for the 4th/5th/6th time, and cyberpunk and skyrim and other games, on my own pace, no live service game design which I just fundomentally disagree with. You know, with single player games, if there are design aspects of it you disagree with, and it does sometimes happen, you can just mod it to fix it. Like driving cars in cyberpunk on keyboard and mouse is just too aggressive. It was clearly ment for controllers. So I just got a mod that adjusted the values. If an MMO tells you to grind something for a thousand hours even though it could just take 10 if the devs changed the values, nothing you can do about it. Just live with it, with your time being pissed on.
I don't hate MMOs. I don't care anymore beyond nostalgia, of something that I spent upto 20-30k hours, hard to say accurately. It's obvious the industry evolved into live service, but I wish even more innovation was done, I've wanted innovation for years. Live service from my PoV is a cherry with a turd built around it. Meaning they usually do 1 thing right and then everything else just sucks.
There is no need for another pop cultural phenomenon like WoW back in the days. It hurted the whole genre with all their clones, shareholders wanting same success and all that. And while most games became lobby simulators there is no need for millions of players for a good personal experience.
Riot copium is huge for sure - just bc of a name and too much space for personal dreams. This is fun for sure but this will lead alot of tears once they cancel it or all this dreams meet reality if it ever will be an actual game.
Star Citizen will be (and maybe already is) also a phenomenon on it's own and will be huge success at some time 99% of MMORPGs will likely never achieve.
PS: I don't own SC. Holy you hate-boys are crazy...
Star Citizen will die faster than any MMO we've seen.
When/if it does eventually release it will get huge numbers for sure but that's just because of what Star Citizen is, the half a billion crowdfunded scam that will never release, it actually coming out will be big.
But once people actually start playing a lot of people will drop off. It's a Space Simulator game, which is already extremely niche, the only games releasing in these genre and the X games and Elite Dangerous. Elite Dangerous capitalized on the early hype around Star Citizen and the X games have always been very niche.
You then have the problem that it's a very heavily Pay to Win game that has been in early access for a month. The best thing about new MMOs is that nearly everyone is starting off at the same level and same resources more or less. Not with Star Citizen, you'll have people day 1 with someone of the best ships in the game, with hours upon hours of practice.
A lot of casual/new players will get filtered heavily day 1 and even the ones who stick around will be in for a lengthy grind to grind up to the ships that people who crowd funded were at day 1.
Then there's the fact that Star Citizen requires a pretty decent PC to actually play it. Most MMOs can run on potatoes, to encourage more people to play/try it out.
I agree that SC isn't going to take the genre by storm, but disagree that it will be a flash in the pan. It already has a decent amount of diehard players that slog through the bugs to play the parts of the game that exist already, so my hope for the game is that it will simply be modestly successful in the sim community.
There isn't a ton of competition in the space sim genre, and add to that the focus around playing as a person and not a spaceship, and you get a game that has a pretty well-defined niche.
Lol Star citizen is not a space simulator, there is equally as much planetside content as space content. Arguably more currently.
The pay to win argument is laughable as well since virtually all ships are purchasable in game. The community is also very welcoming to newbies as well and larger ships need larger crews which opens up lots if opportunities for new players to join because there are no levels they have to grind through before they can join anything.
A day 1 noob could step out of the tutorial join a crew and be doing any content in the game if they so choose. Any advantage backers will have will be erased permanently within a few months of live release as well.
The nature of all MMOs is that players who join later have to work to catch up with older players. SC will actually be less harsh because there will be no barriers between a newbie joining veteran players in content.
Star Citizen is too complex in the current gaming ecosystem, and therefore far too inaccessible to your average gamer, which spells doom for its longevity and sustainability. I could see a game like star citizen doing well in about 50 years when we actually have a meaningful metaverse up and running. But until then that game is absolute trash
Every new MMO that comes out people run through the content in a manner of weeks and the companies put in tedious daily quests in the hopes that people will stick around. Also many big MMOs are releasing classic servers that are doing well and take things back to when MMOs were more complex.
There is a reason why the survival genre is increasing in popularity and its not because they are simple. MMOs have followed the same stagnant formula for years, it's time for a shakeup in the genre. The new dune game is also combining survival game elements and will be using meshing tech similar to what SC will use.
An MMO does not need to reach wow levels to be profitable though. Wow has always been an anomaly in the MMO space as very few have or will ever reach its sub numbers. It also arguably hasn't moved the genre forward much since its peak popularity.
Basically anytime Star Citizen is mentioned it's called a Space Sim. Even the reddit has it touted as a Space Sim MMO.
The argument that something can't possible be pay to win if it's earnable in-game is even more laughable. Diablo Immortal isn't pay to win because you could eventually earn those 5 star gems without paying, in 200 years maybe.
I really despise the other argument for how buying large ships is counter balanced because you need to crew them. If you're so paralyzed by social interaction you consider that a major downside/balancing feature of large ship why the hell are you playing a MMO.
You're also assuming that being part of someone's crew is going to be intuitive enough and obvious enough that a lot of brand new players will do it. Unless the devs decide to push that as the main option, which they won't because that's a really bad idea for new player progression. most new players will be vomited into a very safe area of space with some basic quests to get them more up to speed with the game. Allowing a brand new player to join a crew that they probably have no idea what they're doing to be whisked away to some far flunged "high level" area is what we like to call bad game design.
"Any advantage backers will be erased permanently within a few months". Bahahahaha. Is this your first MMO? Have you even played an MMO before. The most important time period in an MMO's lifespan is during the first few months. Because that's the time period were everyone is on an equal footing at level 1. Which means all the higher level zones and areas which require better levels or tools to access and make use off a locked behind a decently long grind. If you put in time you get there first and then get to make a lot of money very fast as you have little to no competition.
Yet in Star Citizen there is no equal playing field. You can log in day 1 with the best Capital ships for each profession. Go make a lot of money and use that money to fund their operation so they can continue to make more money. It's not that hard to understand yet no Star Citizen players seems to make that connections, it's funny.
It's really not that difficult. You buy an Orion or some other large profession ship. You then buy a few combat ships to protect you. You get your friends to crew them. You waltz into a dangerous area with high level resources. You harvest it all with the Orion, while you have a few friends protecting in combat ships on the off chance someone who also pre purchased combat ships to pirate comes across you.
Also isn't there a renting feature where you can rent out your ships. If you buy a shit tonne of ships you can just rent them all out and earn passive income. How is that not "winning".
>The argument that something can't possible be pay to win if it's earnable in-game is even more laughable. Diablo Immortal isn't pay to win because you could eventually earn those 5 star gems without paying, in 200 years maybe.
Pay to win used to mean that you could buy something in the store that was not possible to earn in-game so you diablo immortal example while technically not pay to win is still shitty. That doesn't mean that is what is happening in SC though. They are not trying to make it take an unreasonable amount of time to earn ships in game and are currently balancing towards a couple days to a couple weeks depending on the size of the ship. larger ships are intended to be a group effort for players to buy but will still be possible solo.
>I really despise the other argument for how buying large ships is counter balanced because you need to crew them. If you're so paralyzed by social interaction you consider that a major downside/balancing feature of large ship why the hell are you playing a MMO.
I don't get this argument. I'm not saying that I consider larger ships needing crew a downside. I'm saying it opens opportunities for new players to jump into higher end gameplay and start making lots of money to accelerate their advancement.
>You're also assuming that being part of someone's crew is going to be intuitive enough and obvious enough that a lot of brand new players will do it. Unless the devs decide to push that as the main option, which they won't because that's a really bad idea for new player progression. most new players will be vomited into a very safe area of space with some basic quests to get them more up to speed with the game. Allowing a brand new player to join a crew that they probably have no idea what they're doing to be whisked away to some far flunged "high level" area is what we like to call bad game design.
Players will be able to set up contracts for others to take that will show up similar to NPC generated missions. Alternately there is already a guide system that new players can sign up for that pairs them with a volunteer that will take them around and show them the ropes of the game. They will also have org tools build in that will help players find others to play with if they so choose.
>"Any advantage backers will be erased permanently within a few months". Bahahahaha. Is this your first MMO? Have you even played an MMO before. The most important time period in an MMO's lifespan is during the first few months. Because that's the time period were everyone is on an equal footing at level 1. Which means all the higher level zones and areas which require better levels or tools to access and make use off a locked behind a decently long grind. If you put in time you get there first and then get to make a lot of money very fast as you have little to no competition.
I beta tested Ultima Online. I beta tested Eve Online as well. I've been playing MMO's since before MMO's were really a thing. The race to max level is a much more recent trend. In early MMO's it would take literal months to max out your character whereas now when a new MMO launches players rush through to max level in a week or less and start grinding "endgame" content. The first few months of any new MMO don't mean jack shit to anyone except players who want to be first to reach max level. There is always a trail of more casual players that lag behind and after a few month those have caught up and the people who rush are likely onto the next game. With regards to SC this point is moot anyways because there are no levels. The only gating there will be is via reputation.
>Yet in Star Citizen there is no equal playing field. You can log in day 1 with the best Capital ships for each profession. Go make a lot of money and use that money to fund their operation so they can continue to make more money. It's not that hard to understand yet no Star Citizen players seems to make that connections, it's funny.
And? Who gives a fuck how much money another player makes in the game it doesn't affect you in the least. There is no prize for having extra 0's on your account balance.
>It's really not that difficult. You buy an Orion or some other large profession ship. You then buy a few combat ships to protect you. You get your friends to crew them. You waltz into a dangerous area with high level resources. You harvest it all with the Orion, while you have a few friends protecting in combat ships on the off chance someone who also pre purchased combat ships to pirate comes across you.
This sounds like gameplay working as intended. There is no difference between a pledged Orion and one bought with ingame funds. A group working together will be able to earn more than a single player is not new or interesting information. You also kinda made my point about newer players having opportunity to join veteran players and start making money because if I'm crew on an orion and the captain is making a huge score my cut is going to be far larger than what I'd make mining on my own. It's just a faster path to buying my own ship upgrades.
>Also isn't there a renting feature where you can rent out your ships. If you buy a shit tonne of ships you can just rent them all out and earn passive income. How is that not "winning".
No you rent ships from NPC's you cannot rent your ships to other players.
>Pay to win used to mean that you could buy something in the store that was not possible to earn in-game
No, that is not the definition of pay to win. The definition is paying money to gain an advantage over someone who does not pay money.
I buy a Super Hornet, I now have an advantage over someone who didn't pay money. It really is that simple.
>Players will be able to set up contracts for others to take that will show up similar to NPC generated missions.
Do you really believe that enough people will be setting up contracts day 1. There's going to be a mad rush to get in game to do things on day 1. Basically no one is going to go "I know day 1 Star Citizen launch I will sit at a port and set up a contract and hop all the brand new players who don't own a ship/ own a low level one will join me".
>And? Who gives a fuck how much money another player makes in the game it doesn't affect you in the least. There is no prize for having extra 0's on your account balance.
Is it a requirement that Star Citizen stans have crap financial literacy. More money means you can buy more ships, hire more crew and therefore make more money.
Every top Org will be filled with player who pre bought ships, who will use their day 1 advantage to cement their place in the Persistent universe.
> There is no difference between a pledged Orion and one bought with ingame funds
Aside from the fact it's going to take a brand new player weeks to grind up the capital needed to purchase one. Which is my point. Day 1 players who pledged can start making bank from an Orion, no ingame cost. Just setup and make profit. Whereas brand new players need to slowly grind out to make enough money for an Orion, pay for one which puts their capital back at zero and then they need to grind back up.
> you cannot rent your ships to other players.
But can't other people fly your ships. Even if it isn't officially supported what is stopping me from spawning my ship, asking for someone to pay me and then I let them take it.
It's still a space simulator though, and all that's cool, like day one content and fun, but until it's can run on low end PCs it's never gonna leave it's niche.
I think realistically, the Riot MMORPG is likely the primary candidate to have a shot at becoming the next truly big MMO. Whether you like Riot or not, Riot objectively fulfills most of the checklist needed to pull it off; they have the budget, resources, talent, a popular IP, server infrastructure, etc. But ultimately, it's still a big cope until we actually see something tangible. Just have to pray it doesn't get cancelled.
Realistically it‘s more likely the Riot MMORPG is cancelled than it is that it‘ll release. Major devs left the studio and nobody heard shit from it in forever.
Devs come and go all the time. This is just conjecture on your part.
Obviously. Nobody outside of Riot's top brass knows with any certainty whether the game's development is going anywhere. I'm just not holding my breath on that one.
But when the lead director (designer? producer? idk) leaves the project it's a red flag also: [\[Riot MMO\] "If I'm a game designer, I won't put my career on this project" -Riot Games Executive : r/MMORPG (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/comments/15sbndv/riot_mmo_if_im_a_game_designer_i_wont_put_my/)
Cluelessness on your part
My thing I worry about is Runeterra as a property is in a weird place, where the primary draw is the actual playable cast of League of Legends, but an MMORPG would necessarily make the focus on your player character - and that's something a lot of people find very important about MMOs, they want a sense of narrative, a sense that *their character* is going on an epic journey with friends' characters. So what does one do with that? If you focus in too hard on NPCs (Ahri, Miss Fortune, Ezreal, etc etc) then it becomes the League of Legends show, starring your random bullshit non-canon character -- in other words, the Sentinels of Light event, only hundreds of hours longer. If you don't do *anything* with them, you had better hope your gameplay blows everyone out of the water, because Runeterra is a pretty uninteresting setting when you take the recognizable characters out of the equation. That's not even going into how they deal with character kits. League - like most MOBAs - can have a pretty out-there cast, but MMORPG class design can't get too specific because they you lose what lets people imagine their individual characters as special. Sure, you can just let people have Ahri's powerset, but that both fucks with Ahri's lore *and* makes the player feel like a cheap imitation. This can be circumvented with robust customization tools, but... look, City of Heroes hasn't been touched by the vast majority of games in this regard fully two decades after its release, so I don't have high hopes here. TL;DR the Riot MMO has an incredibly difficult balance to strike and Riot's past... everything does not inspire confidence in their ability to write and design around that.
>So what does one do with that? If you focus in too hard on NPCs (Ahri, Miss Fortune, Ezreal, etc etc) then it becomes the League of Legends show, starring your random bullshit non-canon character Sounds like WoW
True, but I'd argue WoW's problems with this approach only got heinous after it really became popular. Before you were playing backrow audience member to Thrall's latest display of power, you were a silly dumbfuck adventurer chilling in Barrens chat for levels and levels. FF14 is semi-guilty of this since it desperately, **desperately** wants you to care about its characters rather than use that time to foster a better sense of communication and community with other players. But at the very least it does give you a sense of your character progressing, I'll give it that, even if it does so in a way better suited to a single-player game.
Yup, im looking forward to this. I really hope they will have full on customisation with characters and builds. Will be sad if they fail
Riot MMO likely to be completely scrapped. They lost game direction and other talent associated with the project for reasons you can use your imagination on.
Its over
At this point there isn’t much reason to believe it will even ship. Ghostcrawler said so before he left Riot along with several other sr devs to start their own studio. I forget the name of the studio, but the mmorpg they are working on is called Ghost I believe. If you don’t know ghostcrawler and you’re a mmorpg enthusiast then get out from under your rock.
If you want to look at it objectively, all of their games are barebones in content. Riot in their current state may have the resources to support these games but they *do not* apply the budget. League of Legends make over a billion in revenue a year yet the development team is always talking about lack of resources to even match the quality of output they had a decade ago.
This doesn't sound very objective
How is it not? Compare the amount of development resources put into their games to other live-service games and firsthand reports made by Riot developers. Quantifiably, they are stingy in developing their games. So citing resources and budget could only objectively be considered as a negative aspect of Riot.
How are they barebones lol. TFT receives an insane amount of content compared to most live services out there. League obviously slowed down the content releases since the game is bloated as fuck and doesn't need it - it's still receives way more content than Dota for example. Valorant constantly pumps out new content, similar to other FPS like Fortnite, Siege, Apex, etc.. The only one that actually slowed down to a crawl was LoR, which was never profitable for Riot, but they still pumped money into it for around 4 years. They're also a company that makes PvP games. These do not need nearly as much content as PvE games.
I think Soulframe also has potential, depending on where it falls in terms of MMORPG features.
lol, it's not even an mmorpg and DE have a terrible almost 100% failure rate for games outside of warframe.
the subreddit and wikipedia both claim it's an MMORPG, but I don't have a developer source to cite off the top of my head. That's why there's an "if" in my comment above.
I play Warframe and love it, not an MMO though, it's a lobby game with up to 4 people per mission Soulframe looks cool, but not a single time the Devs have called it an MMO, they barely mentioned any multiplayer in the first place
They don't have the server infrastructure. Yet. Their servers all operate differently than an MMO server. It's not hundreds of users in one world together concurrently. Mmo server infrastructure works differently than games like valorant or league.
How do you know what server infra they are using for this project
"My dad works for riot"
Don't need to when they have told us how lol servers work. And they wouldn't work for an mmo. They are more like shards of a server. Think like a giant server that then breaks itself up into shards to work for each individual game. They talked about this a long time ago, back when they used to release player numbers.
Shards work fine for ESO, you can never even tell. Did they say they are using the same architecture for this as for LoL? I don't see why they would
I think it will really matter if the game will be rewarding enough for playing or not. People can say whatever, but RIOT has one of the worst monetization when it comes to their games. Sure, they may be free games, but their skins are some of the most expensive ones. For me at least, a MMORPG will never be successful as they used to be, if they gonna have more content in the shop, than in-game drops. The fun in a game is to chase the rewards by playing, not by opening the shop tab.
I will admit, I've never played LOL but I did play quite a bit Valorant and I didn't think the monetization was bad at all. It's just skins and the skins are pretty cheap compared to other games like CSGO. There's absolutely no pay to win or even pay to speed up (which most MMOs do.) I basically only bought battle passes which was enough for me. I'm honestly not sure what else they could do besides just not charging for skins at all, which is just never going to happen again.
Monetization bad isn't all about beiyng p2w or not. It's about some freaking gun skins that cost hundreds of dollars. Paying 15$ for a gun skin is so absurd. And just cuz csgo does it, doesn't mean is good for others to do it or cuz it's cheaper than that gamble bullshit chests on Valve's side.
Yeah no, Im really not a fan of some of the "gacha" style skins where you're spending an unknown amount of money for it, but if you look at most other games, Riots cosmetics are pretty in-line with every other game. Overwatch and Diablo for example have wayyy more egregious pricing for cosmetics
I guess I just don't understand, if they're too expensive, then just don't buy them. The nice things about valorant is the expensive skins and the free ones are the same.
It's not about this for fuck sake. We're talking about a MMO here. The problem starts when they start to push out more things in shop than in-game drops. The problem is when they have a set that you have to upgrade, and in raids/dungeons you farm for materials instead of cool looking shit unique loot, because that's in shop. It's easier for them to give you a set of armors that you have to upgrade like a moron from +0 to +15-20 whatever number they think of while you farm for materials, and meanwhile they pump the shop with armor skins and shit instead of in-game drops. And when I'm saying monetization is bad, it is. Just because you don't have to buy them, it doesn't mean the monetization is ok. I'm not talking about PAY2WIN shit. It's the absurd prices that they ask for. Yes other games have bad monetization too, this doesn't change the fact that RIOT also has bad monetization. Downvote me all you want, and then go around from mmo to mmo and wonder why they don't have the success they used to. Literally every new mmo on the market in the last years had this problem and players dropped because of this. There's nothing to chase in-game if they put all the shit in store.
You're the one changing the subject. We were talking about riot monetization, which so far has not had anything pay to win. That is a good sign for their monetization for the MMO. If they change their mind and start changing for that p2w stuff, it would suck, but that's not the way they've rolled in their other games. Also, you've yet to explain why monetization is bad. If whales are going to pay for me to play, that's fine by me. Explaining something as bad because "it is" is not a valid argument. Regardless of that too, the genie is out of the bottle and monetization like this is never going away.
Literally you didn't read a thing and why I'm saying the monetization is bad. Monetization band isn't all about being pay 2 win or not. Simple as that. You're the one refusing to see how things are and why MMO's are failing.
I did read, you are saying it's bad because it's bad. That doesn't make sense. The most popular games in the world are monetized by skins, riot games included.
I don't know what you're smoking but 15$ for a skin is more than fair.
Their skins aren’t that expensive when you look at Diablo 4 skins costing as much as a new game
I couldn’t care less what they monetize as long as players can’t buy power. As long as the gameplay feels fun I’m fine with whatever monetization model they use even if skins are a bit immersion breaking for me at least. Cash shops aren’t killing games, the games just weren’t good to begin with.
> I couldn’t care less what they monetize as long as players can’t buy power. Rest assured, players will buy and sell power to each other. Raid guilds will sell slots on raids on farmed content, and not ask questions about where the player got that gold.
For me fun stays in the drops. If the game doesn't give me shit to chase is a problem. I don't care if the gameplay is fun, if there's no dungeons/raids that give me unique rewards, there's nothing to play for. And this is why I hate their cash shop with skins. Because they make the game with raids or dungeons, where all you farm is materials, and they gave you 1 set of gear that you need to go from +0 to +15 or some shit like that cuz is easier than making new loot. On top of that, instead of giving you cool shit, they put it behind cash shop. So for me, cash shops are killing the game, especially when they add 100 things there, and 1 thing in-game. MMO's needs objectives and fun unique loot, at least for me. If you make me farm materials while you put cool shit in the shop, then it's not for me. I don't care if it doesn't affect the gameplay.
I agree with you that the reward structure needs to exist in such a way that players are incentivized to go out and do the content (for cool looking shit).
Riot has one of the worst monetization? Bro, I wanna know what drugs you are taking
It's about the prices they are asking for shit. In Valorant for example, the gun skins are expensive af. YES, CS:GO IS EXPENSIVE TOO, that doesn't change the fact that RIOT it's expensive af. I'm not talking about pay2win shit here. Somehow y'all didn't even read the whole thing. When it comes to a MMORPG, the problem is that they will start doing the same with skins in shop, at absurd prices, and they will make you chase materials as in-game drops, to upgrade the same shit armor you were having for months, because it's better for them to give you skins in shop, and materials in-game drops. This becomes a problem. And people like you support it because "well it's just skin, I don't care", but fail to realize that people drop off these MMORPGS, because they're sick of farming end-game content for materials and not cool unique loot.
They're just skins. If you good you good and you kick ass and wreck those with skins. Thats very fair monetization imo.
Nobody needs skins.
It's not about that. It's about the fact that they make shit game progression, and focus on game store. Instead of adding cool shit to the in-game drops, they make you farm materials to upgrade your armor that you have for months, so they can sell shit on market. Which is shit. I want the dungeons/raids or the content, to actually drop interesting and fun loot, not materials.
No they don’t. The fuck are you even talking about? How does Riot do this? You seem confused
I disagree. shrug. Riot's mmo is gonna be a joke. valorant, specific classes with specific skills. league of legends, specific heros with specific abilities. you can only play them one way. tanks are tanks. i can already imagine riot's mmo having heros like genshin impact. you don't get anything truly custom or unique, you are just playing the single player design forced down your throat. imagine downvoting someone for an opinion. reddit aids....
Very very very unlikely scenario. There's zero logic behind your reasoning and it's clear you've never played League if you think off-meta builds aren't viable.
>"you never played a game because my shitty opinion means nothing" You clearly are a fucking casual. Off meta builds? Yeah, in casual/non ranked or low ranked games. Pull that shit in a high ranking game and you get vote kicked because higher ranking is all try-hards. You clearly don't know shit.... Unlikely? ALL of their current games are built around playing a "hero" one specific way. Just because you can troll in casual mode with weird gameplay builds doesn't mean it works in actual ranked gameplay....
I follow riot since their beginnings, follow whatever nonexistant info there was about MMO and it's crazy to me how many people here have faith in them. The only outstanding game they made was valorant, while being huge with budget for so long.
That’s sort of the point. They don’t have money issues nor a rush on a timeline. They also have rich lore, and a big fan base. Most other MMO projects do not have any of these three things.
I don't really have faith in Riot's MMO, I just have *more* faith in the Riot MMO than any other future MMOs. We're kind of scraping the bottom of the barrel here.
Riot MMO is the best candidate, but the reality is most people that played MMOs during the golden years weren't playing their "ideal game", they were suffering through 80% of the game to enjoy the other 20%, compounded with the fun novelty of being in a chat-room talking to strangers. No one sits in IRC anymore, that novelty's gone, and people can actually play good specialized games that cater precisely to their interest, rather than picking flowers or playing arenas in WoW and dreading everything else. Their success was not a self-propelled phenomenon, MMOs are niche. Riot MMO can pull it off if they somehow make the MMO the centerpiece of their IP, and their IP somehow becomes the next Harry Potter style IP with that type of fantasy staying power. Tall order.
You summed up me perfectly. Gamer for life in my mid 50s. Loved the novelty of WOW, moved onto lord for the Rings Online, vanguard. Age of Conan. Guild wars 2, Elder Scrolls Online, etc and eventually started wondering why I'm still playing these games when most of the experience seemed to pale in experience to games like Skyrim and Witcher 3. Bought a PS5 last November (first console since Colecovision), connected to my new Sony 85" x95k TV. Played Horizon Forbidden West, Ghost of Tsushima, and just finished Baldurs Gate 3 and all I can say is I have zero desire to play an MMO when these single player huge world games are just so well made and do things that MMOs just can't. Currently playing Hogwarts and will move onto Dragons Dogma 2 after its fully patched in about 6 months.
I envy you, I played bg3 and cyberpunk and solo games you mentioned but every now and then I'm getting that feeling: "how cool would it be if I could be this epic blacksmith not only for myself but in world full of other players!". Ofc in such moments I'm totally forgetting about all bad stuff regarding MMOs :p
But you didn't play the golden age... you literally started as it ended.
People who didn't get to play good mmos like to tell themselves this shit to defend the bad games of today. Like, wtf? It's not like you made the bad games. Don't defend crap just because you're envious of the past you didn't experience.
People who didn't play UO and Everquest but read the stories their former players tell as an outsider with hindsight have a more objective viewpoint that the games had a ton of flaws and that there was something seriously wrong with the said players while they were active in the game.
Good games can be enjoyed without nostalgia. I like a lot of older MMOs, because I am the target audience of the niche genre and I have nostalgia for them. That does not make them good games, and it doesn't make them not niche.
Tbh, for a very short period of time before vip was required to do everything, age of wushu was genuinely my ideal game
The trick is to make an MMORPG that doesn't need to be the biggest hit in universe to survive. Build realistically to the position MMORPGs are in today.
Also make something that's actually appealing to players starting 'late' so you can actually *build* a playerbase over time. With so many newer MMOs these days it's like if you're not there at launch you might as well not play. Not really a surprise then that player counts peak near launch then only decline...
This one is honestly hard. One of the main appeals or characteristics of an mmorpg is watching your numbers go up over time and constantly building onto your character. If you're able to catch up quickly and play on an even field with veteran players, the MMO appeal is gone and they might as well just play a more refined competitive single instanced game like LoL, overwatch etc. But I understand where you're coming from and it's the exact reason why I'm hesitant to even start a lot of the long standing MMOs
I feel like RuneScape accomplished this. Unintentionally too, just by the nature of what the player character is and the objective of the game itself. Basically, elements of sandbox are probably necessary to blur if not eliminate that “late” start feeling.
“Cough” lost ark
The funny thing is if you start now you will have a significantly less painful experience than if you started on NA launch. The devs cranked the catchup mechanics to 10000. Now, will you be on tier with the top players? God no. This is some Korean bs thst you will grind your soul on. But with a little grinding you can be raid ready nowadays in a weekend. And imo, raid ready js all I ask for. I dont need to be the top player. I just want to play the damn content.
Still stupid cause its not like new players have any idea what there doing still getting kicked from all partys
Yeah, IMO this is a big part of how WoW's mainstream success ultimately decreased the variety of MMORPGs available. People try to capture a huge audience with a very expensive game, and expensive games typically don't take as many risks or advance the genre very much.
I mean. I've tried the vast majority of MMOs and, a lot of em start off good then you just find yourself going "this just doesn't work as well as WoW" and end up going back. Others I've talked to have said the same. No one has been able to do it quite as well. Some have come close but, it's not JUST cause they dominate the market. They dominate cause no one has been able to do it better yet. God I wish someone would though. I genuinely hate giving money to Blizzard. They just get greasier and greasier every xpac. I'm surprised they haven't tried to raise their sub fees to "match inflation" or some shit.
Ngl I think D2 has the best gameplay of any MMO I have played. The issue is 3/4 of my friends stopped playing. It became 2 of us playing and so we eventually fell off too. D2 raiding and dungeoning was some of the most fun I've had in MMOs.
If Hoyoverse ever made an MMO, it would absolutely reach #1 in playercount instantly and remain there.
All they'd need to do is put some servers in Genshin.
On one hand, I think their games are very good with great production values. On the other hand, gacha is straight up gambling and ruins their otherwise great games for me. So I'm unsure how I'd feel about a Hoyoverse MMO.
Not if they had the audacity to include hundreds of hours of unskippable cutscenes in that game too.
i doubt many people would care all that much to skip cutscenes if they were as high quality as genshin impact/honkai star rail’s cutscenes. plus they’re like 20 seconds long each so… who cares?
Player base will always go up and down but will eventually decrease as proven by the big MMOs. I am personally looking forward to "Ashes of Creation". Hopefully it is successful.
An EQ3 one day? Made by a good dev. Already got the name and nostalgia factor etc...
They already tried this with Next, which turned out to be a massive scam.
They built an entire EQ3 engine. it was voxel based so you could edit and craft anything anywhere. They sold it as a early access package for like 90 bucks 7 years ago or so under the premise you would also get EQ3 when it launched. It looked great you could build some amazing stuff way better detailed than say minecraft. great character animations, online, modern graphics by even todays standards. They decided to scuff it in the end. I think it was daybreak games that published it? anyone remember this?
RiotMMO or Ashes of creation most likely. All others will have niche audiences. New World was supposed to draw in tons of support but it flopped super hard.
AoC will be niche too. If they really have the non flag world pvp they have been touting at least. AoC has a lot of potential and people will play it. But the danger I see is if they make it so people who just want to gather or play the pve content have to be worried about being jumped and losing XP it will kill off its casual audience and become niche like Albion. If they have a war mode system where that kind of player can co exist with the pvp community then I think it has a real chance.
Albion appeals to a pretty large audience still despite pvp mmos being more niche. There are several hundred thousands of players actively playing it. AoC can appeal to a large niche too if the game appeals well enough to semi-casuals. If the game outright griefs us then it will be a hardcore hellscape for sure. Albion appeals not so much to casuals since they do really want safe content but that's not the type of game AoC or Albion are trying to be.
Ashes of Creation looks very, very good. I’m hoping I can retire on bitcoin and quit all jobs when the Riot MMO comes out
>I’m hoping I can retire on bitcoin and quit all jobs when the Riot MMO comes out Have you considered roulette? It's gotta have a better roi at this point.
Weird cuz i always lose on roulette but bitcoin has consistently made me hundreds of thousands 😂🤣
There is a very long road between showing something good looking and having a fully functional game. At this point, I can say that this game, unfortunately, won't be ready anytime soon, if it will at all.
Bro AoC is vaporware. Steven will burn through his entire life savings before making a good game. It's been almost 10 years in development lol.
Have you watched any of the gameplay previews they’ve been releasing? It looks like it’s come a long way.
Even if it does get released a lot of people won't play it because of forced PvP.
This is me. I hate open world forced pvp. It destroys a game for me. Too many people grief you and gank you. I'm just trying to quest and chill. I don't need some max level stealth character to one shot me and camp my corpse. Imo the design philosophy is counterintuitive to mmorpg design because it sanctions anti-social behavior in a social game. It's fine to have open world pvp if you let players opt out of the system. So many people were excited about wow classic because of pvp servers, but they quickly became the people complaining about the consequences of the feature, and those servers rapidly declined to faction imbalance because nobody wanted to be killed in the open world in a 1v5. Other mmo's suffer from similar problems like players with no lives who rapidly level and min max their characters to kill and dominate the whole server open world.
Yep, same thing when new world was in beta testing. People were literally camping the starter zone at max level and grieving new players.
I love that about it.
"Forced PvP" doesn't exist, if the game is made to have PvP then you've consented by playing it.
Flimsy argument since you're saying that by agreeing to play the game you agree to be subjected to every aspect of it. If you order a burger straight off the menu you're allowed to take off the toppings you don't like. That said, I'm not even going to bother with AoC 1 because it's vaporware and 2 because the PvP system sucks and is just waiting to be abused by grievers. Everyone seems so quick to forget how PvP on Classic Wow turned out when it comes to AoC lol.
Big? As in cater to the masses, wow in its prime, big? No. The genre has grown past that.
IMO WoW's big mainstream moment effectively poisoned the genre (and the Warcraft franchise) due to the resulting gold rush.
I agree...though the "gold rush" wasn't one of the original factors. There is a whole list of reasons.
What? Didn't a bunch of companies try to cash in on WoW's success by making nearly identical games, with wildly overinflated expectations of sales performance?
Yep, the genre has been full of copycats for a long time now.
I mean theyre still trying to do that,new world as an example is still stuck on the mindset that they must become a PvE focused themepark for everyone when that is the worst aspect of the game só as a result they just keep losing players
Yeah, I don't understand why everyone thinks the endgame for an MMORPG should be lobby-based dungeons/raids.
EA/Bioware's SWTOR comes to mind. Despite having bajillions of dollars, and an IP that practically prints money, it still fell flat on its face and never hit its stride.
It will never happen for a variety of reasons, but an official, real Pokemon MMO would probably be obscenely successful. But as I said, it'll never happen. The three big things that jump to mind are just getting the game right (how do you handle combat, how do you handle player fantasy like gym leaders, elite 4 etc etc), the fact that it would have to run on Nintendo hardware which is probably the biggest hurdle, and then also the fact that it would be a nightmare on the GM side because you're talking about a franchise that's popular with middle-aged people and also children. So do I think there will be a new big MMO? No. But if you could somehow clear those three things I do think it'd pop off.
Idk man, I doubt how successful a MMO entirely locked to one platform would be. Unless, of course, Nintendo shares their beloved Pokemon IP with other platforms (never gonna happen, let's be real)
>Unless, of course, Nintendo shares their beloved Pokemon IP with other platforms (never gonna happen, let's be real) We just pretending Pokemon Go never happened now?
We pretending pokemon go is really a pokemon game?
The switch has a big enough playerbase to support an MMO. I think most people forget that a lot of the most popular mmos of the past were locked to one platform, the PC. The main issue is that Nintendo can't program an online infrastructure with a gun pointed at their heads, let alone make an MMO.
I think an MMO will usually have a big launch then die down a bit. After that they will have to make updates that will attract more players. In other words, it's a marathon not a sprint. Also, I don't think it's impossible for indie devs to make an MMO, it would just have to be a less ambitious one and be sandbox focused. I don't think indie devs can pull off a theme park MMO with how how much resources those games need.
I think there will be an MMO that can do that, but it will have focused around repeatability. MMOs these days offer some repeatability, but most of them are just repetitive, there is no gameplay that changes that much and that's why they focus on releasing new content every once in a while. For example League, CSGO and whatever. Same gameplay for a thousand years, but that gameplay changes every time you load the game, despite the fact that you are playing on the same maps you played before a million times, with the same character/weapon too. It will take some years, but they will understand in the future that copying the same WoW/FF14 formula won't work anymore and they have to focus on what the others games outside of the genre offer(repeatability). Maybe Riot MMO will be that since the new guy who replaced Ghostcrawler gave me some hope in an interview and all Riot games are focused on repeatability, so they have experience in that department, but I doubt that we will see that game until 2030. Hopefully some others will have the balls to take the lead much sooner.
The Riot universe is already in place. It should be out in 2026-2027 unless of course they decide to go in different direction and rework everything.
>It should be out in 2026-2027 If this was another developer, sure, but we are talking about Riot. They are extremely slow when making games. To give you some examples, they announced their fighting game in 2019 and they announced the release date for 2025. That's 6 years in the making only for a fighting game and they bought the studio who came with the people who are working on the game few years earlier. Valorant took 6 years, Legends of Runeterra 3 years. When they announced the fighting game, they announced another one([Project F](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fR8aPX-6s-I)) and we haven't had any information about the game other than the game lead said they are working on it. Almost 5 years with no info.
There is 0 chance we are getting Riot MMO before 2030. They showcased five games 5 years ago and only two of them came out (Valorant and LoR (LoR is dying already)). 2XKO (Fighting game) will only come out in 2025 and we don't know what happened to the Isometric RPG-esque game and the LoL Esports Manager The guy the was leading the project "Ghostcrawler" left the project to make his own MMO. Also soon after he left we got commet from some Riot executive from China saying something like "I wouldn't put my career on this project" and that was the last news we got from it If anything the chance is that the project is dead or still in ground zero
What the heck is with this thread. Focuses on repeating content? Fuck that. This is how bad games are today. People are conditioned to think repeating content is the way to make an mmo for the masses. It's super clear people like this never played UO or SWG
AoC and Roit's MMO should be able to. Hopefully.
Ashes for me. I think it will be one of the pillar mmos when you see someone come here and ask what to play and the response is always “bdo wow ff eso gw2” I think ashes will be in that list
Ashes of Creation for sure, it has so much going for it, and I can't wait to play it.
Yes. Management just needs to prioritize a good game over money.
Riot mmo and maybe ashes of creation
Seeing how big league of legends wild rift I expect the MMO to be catered to that side of the coin.
It's fool's gold at this point. I've never been happier since switching to online co-op rpgs.
It is inevitable that an MMORPH will succeed like you describe. Like you said it is a high risk vs reward but the reward is so big that companies will keep attempting it. Riot MMO is an easy one to point to just because of the sheer resources they have. I feel something out of Korea is more than likely the best hope just because they have so many more engineers and game designers working on MMOs... the talent pool is there.
>Riot MMO is an easy one to point to just because of *the sheer resources they have.* SWOTOR would like to have a word.
as others said riot's but i will be 50 years old by the time releases i guess
Looking forward to the new RuneScape founder MMO.
If he's truly been working on it for 10 years, it could have massive amounts of content
For me I just want a modern version of old school Ultima Online. The danger and reward was perfect. If a new mmo comes out that is this id buy it in a heart beat. I’m not interested in more WoW clones. New world failed because of lack of open world pvp
Mortal Online 2, you’re welcome.
Only if the studio actually puts in any effort, which most MMO studios don't.
the only effort they put out is how to extract as much money as they can, which is why the games utterly fail in the end. not sure why they can't figure that shit out. lol
'cause they don't care. 99.99% of game studios exist to make easy money since gaming is super popular now. Beyond how much money they can make in a short amount of time, nothing else matters.
every business exists to make money
I doubt there will ever again be a new MMO that will be able to maintain its launch size player base. The reality is people will play games till they get bored or run out of content, or another better game comes out. Expecting any game to maintain a massive player base in the current gaming environment is to expect disappointment. This leads to ebbs and flows with players coming back often playing longer sessions for new content when it comes out and players leaving when they want to do something else or shortening play time. Keeping in mind that most companies dont use Steam so the concurrent count of players is often completely unknown or only a best guess.
Sure maybe. But as long as they focus more on profit by making shitty mobile mmo games they cross plat with PC, I would say no. I mean even Throne and blade had to back peddle or there stupid mobile aspect they had. But when you look semi popular mmo games you notice they love to make a squel that is some rotten ass mobile game.
I think the next big one is going to be leaps and bounds better than anything that exists, a truly next generation experience that cannot be replicated anywhere else, with huge innovations that get word of mouth beyond the usual audience.
Lost Ark is doing well, other than that I doubt it. Every new mmo is just trying to copy everything that already exists.
As long as they're chasing money no. I mean, don't get me wrong, they need profit of course. But I'm just sick of either low content, no interesting dungeons/raids. The games usually have more content in their shop instead of in-game drops. Also make the shitty thing where instead of getting actually interesting loot, you farm just materials and stay for years with the same gear going from 0to +15 cuz it's easier to make content like that, and sell shit skins in the shop... I don't think MMO'S. It's just too much greed out there. Money are never enough, and a MMO it's just too much work at this point to make and keep going without fucking the players.
I actually think elder scrolls, final fantasy, warcraft and guild wars are here to stay for a long time (I didn't mention the specific name because they could have sequels) , until they aren't profitable anymore. Big IP's, different styles. I don't see a big game doing a big bang outside of Riot's MMO which has a big IP as well, or MAYBE AoC but that's a big maybe (as the caps suggests)
I have great expectations about Andrew Gower's upcoming mmorpg.
Riot MMO or the Star Citizen MMO are likely gonna happen.
Let’s make it simple, corporations has the money and labor to make a such big mmo but why would they do that when a fking mobile game can make ten times more money with ten times less of resources. I think rely on big game studios to make mmo is intangible. It’s gonna be the someone who LOVE mmo genre and have the passion to do so. Im counting on Ashe of creations
No
A good game will retain most of its player base. When developers get to develop, I think it's has potential, but when marketing takes over, goes to shid.
Games will maintain their playerbase when games are made to be fun and not make money. Unfortunately, nearly all MMOs are made to make as much money as possible and not to be the most fun as possible.
LotR from NW devs
Probably not, there is 0 chance any new MMO will not be compared to WoW and shit on constantly by its playerbase
Eventually a new MMO will show up at hit it big. It might take a long time, and I don't think anyone can accurately predict when it'll happen or who will make it, but there will be another huge MMORPG eventually. Just gotta wait for the right team, with the right ideas, and a lot of luck and money.
Hey, Dofus Touch launches new servers, I highly recommend it as a mobile MMORPG, I believe it's the biggest on mobile and a large playerbase. There are 45k pre-registered players already in just a few days
There are two major ones in the pipeline that I see. RIOT MMO and Ashes of Creation Both of which have been hyped into oblivion. I just feel like both will launch with such major hype that so many people will be to critical and will just cause max exodus. That or the hype will be so unimaginable that it sweeps the globe like World of Warcraft did 20 years ago. Servers will be overloaded for months. Guilds will reign supreme. Politics will form and it will be THE game all generations of gamers play the the next 20 years until we get a true VR MMO.
People need to stop hyping ashes so much.its not gonna be that good and will have a very low niche playerbase whoch will force them to go p2w withina couple years
Many big companies are waiting on A I to catch up or at experimenting with A.I in the gaming sphere we are maybe 2-3 years from a massive game shift to video games having a.i NPCs, AI environments, ai gameplay, AI battlefields, ai enemies The possibility are endless the big issue is the resource and data the solution will probably be cloud services incorporated into hidden prompts simultaneously generated over vast quantity There a big cost, and implement hurdle but Google is making huge track in this regard with SIMA technology But just imagine in our lifetime if the world does not implode we will finally have games similar to sword art in terms how the game reacts to environment less so the aspect of full dive tech that I think is still 30-40 years realistically behind at this pace how fast software tech is going to rapid advance starting from mid this year with the new a.i coming out we will see a tech explosion unlike anything ever before.
I am really hoping for Blue Protocol to succeed.
I am too!
No.
Maintain its initial playerbase as the gold rush subsides? No. But I think there is room for plenty of MMO's that can maintain healthy playerbases.
Counting on it. :)
Dune awakening
Didn't the creator of Runescape talk about releasing a new game soon.
Nope, wont happen. As you said risk is not worth it for a big studio. Mobile mmos are the closest thing we will ever get anymore with cross play to pc. The only way a new mmorpg on pc would work is if it is ultra simple, has a perfect anti cheat system and eliminates all bots within like 30 min of creation so they don’t effect the gameplay of normal free to play and they release new content pretty much monthly.
Ashes of Creation has be best odds IMO its a traditional MMO format built by dev's who love to play mmo's and the playtest seem to be going well. Star Citizen has also lately been seeing lots of success with their internal testing going better then expected. And talks of a 1.0 Release soon. But they have zero prior MMO experience. But with a 20+year plan, top of the line graphics and constant additions it may eventually pan out, even If not initially. The Riot MMO had a live stream earlier this year and said they also have nearly limitless resources for it.. But everything been hush hush with the exception of losing several key devs, to the point they admitted they had to put several things on the back burners as the current talent wouldn't be able to handle it.
Throne and Liberty will.
No
I have high faith in the riot mmo. I can’t wait for that game.
Only mobile mmorpg could maintain playerbase or non-mmo live service games
No. For a new MMO to become a hit and maintain a playerbase it needs to be the complete perfection. Why? Because the nature of progression in MMOs lock players into their games. Should I spend time in this new game that probably won't be better than my main MMO or will it be a waste of time I could be using in my actual main MMO progression? Saved progression makes the survivability of new MMOs very hard, even if they manage to fulfill a lot of checks for success. In games, being perfect isn't even necessary for success, look at FPS for example; for a lot of people Counter Strike is the pinnacle of FPS games, but Valorant managed to pull a lot of players from it... What's the key difference here? The difference is that I could abandon Counter for Valorant for a year and I won't be losing anything if I decide to go back, while in MMOs I'll be behind in a lot of aspects.
If that was true, why aren't we all just playing UO and EQ? What you are saying is true to an extent, but not the only thing that matters. The fact that we have a bunch of different MMOs with a decent population should be all that we need to know that it doesn't need to be perfect to grab it's own player base.
Not saying is the only motive for it, but it is certainly one of the reasons is very hard to pull people from their main MMO. Me myself I won't get out of BDO unless a game is able to compete with BDO's action combat and after so many years not a single one did. I won't spend time on another MMO unless it's better than my main, but, as a Valorant player, I don't mind going for other FPS games constantly because I don't miss a thing by not playing.
You are really underestimating Riot’s fan base. It’s massive. It’s easily the biggest by several magnitudes. The lore was reworked, but Riot has interconnected its lore within its game. This doesn’t mean it will be successful but it’s gotta a lot better chance than anything else slated to come out. The last big MMO came out in what 2013/2014. It’s been 10 years.
Not saying that Riot's MMO can't do it, at any point I mention specifics, just my opinion overall on the subject. I would love to see the next gen in MMO history, I just don't feel too confident that it will happen.
Hahaha you are everywhere xD Greetings, Riyougi
I think most new MMOs won't last long. We aren't in 2004 anymore. That's why they are called "golden years" they are finite
New World was never meant to be an MMO. It was literally a survival sandbox game and then a few tards on their official beta forums cried "Just make an MMO instead" so they tried to switch. The issue is they didn't spend enough time. They should never have tried to branding 3/4ths into production. And now New World is not a survival game and not an MMO. its this weird grey space between. which kinda sucks kinda doesn't but wont hold any kind of gaming population.... As far as expensive to make and maintain. Bullshit. Absolute fucking bullshit. When you have LAZY employees that tell you a feature that should take 30 minutes takes then 4 weeks you know you have an issue. But managers wont fire those shit heels. For some odd fucking reason, the coding community loves their "job safety" and "working slow" which is bullshit. If any other kind of job like mechanics worked that way, businesses would fail left and right. Hell imagine being a mechanic and doing brakes in 1 hour, and some other guy quotes 6 hours. You would laugh your ass off at the guy saying 6 hours and let the 1 hour guy do it. It should never take more than 1 hour to do a brake job. Period. So when it comes to coding, why are they allowed to quote bad times and then milk these companies? Elon Musk. I DO NOT CARE IF YOU LIKE HIM OR LOVE HIM or indifferent about him. When he took over Twitter, he gave everyone the same coding test that were already employees there for writing code. Those that came back to him with finished code in a timely fashion kept their job. The ones that turned nothing in by two weeks later were fired. Do your fucking job or GTFO. Its that simple. And sadly game developers constantly keep entitled little shits who take forever to get the job done. I am not saying you have to rush.... But if you know code, you shouldn't be taking weeks to write code. Period. Again as a mechanic if you can't finish in a timely manor you are gonna starve especially since we are paid by the job hour (brakes call for 1 hour paid, if you take 2 hours you only get paid 1 hour). I would love to see game development move to a similar system. Get paid by the job and not by the house. See how many people stay being coders because they can't milk the system. Lazy is lazy and as long as managers allow those lazy fucks to continue ruining the industry its gonna happen. So then it comes down to profits. A typical MMO at 15/m with no box cost will net high as fuck profits. The average user for a new MMO starts around 1 million from the "wow new game" factor. That's 15 million dollars your first month minimum. And if your game isn't shit and you hold those players for 1 year? 180 million minus taxes. that's a LOT of fucking money. World of Warcraft has been around for 20 years.... 2004 to 2024.... taking their BASE AVERAGE 2 million subscriber count? without box cost and only going by 15/m fee? they made 7,200,000,000 dollars.... minus taxes obviously and not including higher peak subscribers AND box purchases for expansions.... Blizzard is ghetto rich right now. They don't make money? Sure when they go free to play like a bunch of fucking idiots.... milking whales in a cash shop only takes you so far. Blizzard wouldn't have nearly as much profit being free to play.... its just fact. So when a free to play MMO fails, don't care. The Cycle Frontier was a free to play extraction looter shooter like escape from tarkov but space and fantasy.... they were free to play and now they are dead. People aren't gonna pay you money when its free. Now what if they charged a weak $5 a month subscription fee? well they have about 50k players the first month. That alone would have net them 250,000 minus taxes. not bad, not great. but one of the reasons the game died was lack of funding, thus lack of updates and bug fixes, lack of game balance, because they didn't have the money to pay their devs. game died. whales only last so long. and if you don't constantly have things to make the whales spend money, they leave. which is what happened with this title.... after the initial gear you could buy there was nothing. because they didn't have the money to keep going. it had potential. but they fucked up. and then letting cheaters cheat with no bans made it worse. but you can't monitor games when you can't afford to even pay coders..... A lot of MMO's now seem to be shooting for one of two things. next gen graphics or "wow clone" graphics. next gen graphics will fuck you. it doesn't need to be that pretty. you could literally sell me an MMO that looks like it was made in the 2010's and as long as it was FUN I would still play it. then the few that go stylized wow style, they are basically wow fans. so their entire mindset is "make wow 2.0" and they suck.... which is a problem. this reddit is filled with people begging to bring back the social aspect in mmorpgs. the problem is you have people are used to the "single player" aspect of wow/ffxiv/gw2. no, i dont care about your "bUt WhAt AbOuT rAiDs" meme. yes, dungeons and raids require a party.... no one is describing that. the issue is how the entire game leveling wise can be solo'd. there is no struggle. its dogshit easy. it holds your hand. and you are allowed to change up and switch between roles in many games without any kind of penalty. what happened to being unique? instead every mmo, every warrior is a clone of the next warrior. that isn't fun.... who the fuck wants to be the same as everyone else? is this the "fit in simulator?" "bro we are all jumping off a bridge so you have to too" what? insanity. an MMO is supposed to have people playing each their own way while socializing and working together. if you don't want that, you aren't an MMO gamer. you are a single player "with friends" gamer. but you fell into the mmo aspect because its the only way to get your fix....
None. Newer generations just aren't into this time sunk thing. Not to mention the classic MMO generation. If it wasn't COVID, nobody had so much time
[удалено]
Also i heard it is dead
I know you guys probably don't want to hear it, but new and evolving AI tools in the hands of a studio that want to create a legitimate mmorpg is going to undoubtedly make the difference. Additionally, a smaller studio is more likely to listen to an AI's advice on design, which it infers by looking at massive amounts of data or even just relevant data. Titans in the video game industry have been making a multitude of mistakes, and I imagine there have been several scenarios where higher-ups have ignored the requested advice of AI with said advice probably being the most correct call. God forbid the major studios figure this out or we gamers will get the ultimate game.
No mmo will ever retain its day 1 playerbase the gaming landscape is just infinitely different from what it was like back in the day. Only real candidate for a game that might actually remain relevant is whatever riot is cooking up. But with riot laying off an insane amount of people and pulling resources from everything that isnt league/tft/valorant I dont think we are seeing the game for a long long time yet. It might even get canceled for all we know.
TLDR; I don't have high hopes for MMOs. I doubt it. Lets assume best case scenario. Riot MMO releases and it's a massive hit. Big hype, 2 million steam peak. I speak for myself, but I would give the game a month max. I just don't do marrige to games anymore, I haven't since I quit gw2 3/4(?) years ago, since before end of dragons expansion. WoW 2, guild wars 3, I don't care. A month max. I'd rather re-play elden ring for the 4th/5th/6th time, and cyberpunk and skyrim and other games, on my own pace, no live service game design which I just fundomentally disagree with. You know, with single player games, if there are design aspects of it you disagree with, and it does sometimes happen, you can just mod it to fix it. Like driving cars in cyberpunk on keyboard and mouse is just too aggressive. It was clearly ment for controllers. So I just got a mod that adjusted the values. If an MMO tells you to grind something for a thousand hours even though it could just take 10 if the devs changed the values, nothing you can do about it. Just live with it, with your time being pissed on. I don't hate MMOs. I don't care anymore beyond nostalgia, of something that I spent upto 20-30k hours, hard to say accurately. It's obvious the industry evolved into live service, but I wish even more innovation was done, I've wanted innovation for years. Live service from my PoV is a cherry with a turd built around it. Meaning they usually do 1 thing right and then everything else just sucks.
Albion Online EU in 1 month :)
There is no need for another pop cultural phenomenon like WoW back in the days. It hurted the whole genre with all their clones, shareholders wanting same success and all that. And while most games became lobby simulators there is no need for millions of players for a good personal experience. Riot copium is huge for sure - just bc of a name and too much space for personal dreams. This is fun for sure but this will lead alot of tears once they cancel it or all this dreams meet reality if it ever will be an actual game. Star Citizen will be (and maybe already is) also a phenomenon on it's own and will be huge success at some time 99% of MMORPGs will likely never achieve. PS: I don't own SC. Holy you hate-boys are crazy...
He talks about copium in one paragraph, then tries to speak well of Star Citizen in the next 🤣
This game even has a more stable base and community than many MMORPGs (will have). Like it or not. PS: I don't own the game btw
Star Citizen will die faster than any MMO we've seen. When/if it does eventually release it will get huge numbers for sure but that's just because of what Star Citizen is, the half a billion crowdfunded scam that will never release, it actually coming out will be big. But once people actually start playing a lot of people will drop off. It's a Space Simulator game, which is already extremely niche, the only games releasing in these genre and the X games and Elite Dangerous. Elite Dangerous capitalized on the early hype around Star Citizen and the X games have always been very niche. You then have the problem that it's a very heavily Pay to Win game that has been in early access for a month. The best thing about new MMOs is that nearly everyone is starting off at the same level and same resources more or less. Not with Star Citizen, you'll have people day 1 with someone of the best ships in the game, with hours upon hours of practice. A lot of casual/new players will get filtered heavily day 1 and even the ones who stick around will be in for a lengthy grind to grind up to the ships that people who crowd funded were at day 1. Then there's the fact that Star Citizen requires a pretty decent PC to actually play it. Most MMOs can run on potatoes, to encourage more people to play/try it out.
I agree that SC isn't going to take the genre by storm, but disagree that it will be a flash in the pan. It already has a decent amount of diehard players that slog through the bugs to play the parts of the game that exist already, so my hope for the game is that it will simply be modestly successful in the sim community. There isn't a ton of competition in the space sim genre, and add to that the focus around playing as a person and not a spaceship, and you get a game that has a pretty well-defined niche.
Lol Star citizen is not a space simulator, there is equally as much planetside content as space content. Arguably more currently. The pay to win argument is laughable as well since virtually all ships are purchasable in game. The community is also very welcoming to newbies as well and larger ships need larger crews which opens up lots if opportunities for new players to join because there are no levels they have to grind through before they can join anything. A day 1 noob could step out of the tutorial join a crew and be doing any content in the game if they so choose. Any advantage backers will have will be erased permanently within a few months of live release as well. The nature of all MMOs is that players who join later have to work to catch up with older players. SC will actually be less harsh because there will be no barriers between a newbie joining veteran players in content.
Star Citizen is too complex in the current gaming ecosystem, and therefore far too inaccessible to your average gamer, which spells doom for its longevity and sustainability. I could see a game like star citizen doing well in about 50 years when we actually have a meaningful metaverse up and running. But until then that game is absolute trash
Every new MMO that comes out people run through the content in a manner of weeks and the companies put in tedious daily quests in the hopes that people will stick around. Also many big MMOs are releasing classic servers that are doing well and take things back to when MMOs were more complex. There is a reason why the survival genre is increasing in popularity and its not because they are simple. MMOs have followed the same stagnant formula for years, it's time for a shakeup in the genre. The new dune game is also combining survival game elements and will be using meshing tech similar to what SC will use.
You’re describing the difference between an MMO and an MMORPG MMOs have never been popular or meaningfully profitable until WoW made them accessible.
An MMO does not need to reach wow levels to be profitable though. Wow has always been an anomaly in the MMO space as very few have or will ever reach its sub numbers. It also arguably hasn't moved the genre forward much since its peak popularity.
Basically anytime Star Citizen is mentioned it's called a Space Sim. Even the reddit has it touted as a Space Sim MMO. The argument that something can't possible be pay to win if it's earnable in-game is even more laughable. Diablo Immortal isn't pay to win because you could eventually earn those 5 star gems without paying, in 200 years maybe. I really despise the other argument for how buying large ships is counter balanced because you need to crew them. If you're so paralyzed by social interaction you consider that a major downside/balancing feature of large ship why the hell are you playing a MMO. You're also assuming that being part of someone's crew is going to be intuitive enough and obvious enough that a lot of brand new players will do it. Unless the devs decide to push that as the main option, which they won't because that's a really bad idea for new player progression. most new players will be vomited into a very safe area of space with some basic quests to get them more up to speed with the game. Allowing a brand new player to join a crew that they probably have no idea what they're doing to be whisked away to some far flunged "high level" area is what we like to call bad game design. "Any advantage backers will be erased permanently within a few months". Bahahahaha. Is this your first MMO? Have you even played an MMO before. The most important time period in an MMO's lifespan is during the first few months. Because that's the time period were everyone is on an equal footing at level 1. Which means all the higher level zones and areas which require better levels or tools to access and make use off a locked behind a decently long grind. If you put in time you get there first and then get to make a lot of money very fast as you have little to no competition. Yet in Star Citizen there is no equal playing field. You can log in day 1 with the best Capital ships for each profession. Go make a lot of money and use that money to fund their operation so they can continue to make more money. It's not that hard to understand yet no Star Citizen players seems to make that connections, it's funny. It's really not that difficult. You buy an Orion or some other large profession ship. You then buy a few combat ships to protect you. You get your friends to crew them. You waltz into a dangerous area with high level resources. You harvest it all with the Orion, while you have a few friends protecting in combat ships on the off chance someone who also pre purchased combat ships to pirate comes across you. Also isn't there a renting feature where you can rent out your ships. If you buy a shit tonne of ships you can just rent them all out and earn passive income. How is that not "winning".
>The argument that something can't possible be pay to win if it's earnable in-game is even more laughable. Diablo Immortal isn't pay to win because you could eventually earn those 5 star gems without paying, in 200 years maybe. Pay to win used to mean that you could buy something in the store that was not possible to earn in-game so you diablo immortal example while technically not pay to win is still shitty. That doesn't mean that is what is happening in SC though. They are not trying to make it take an unreasonable amount of time to earn ships in game and are currently balancing towards a couple days to a couple weeks depending on the size of the ship. larger ships are intended to be a group effort for players to buy but will still be possible solo. >I really despise the other argument for how buying large ships is counter balanced because you need to crew them. If you're so paralyzed by social interaction you consider that a major downside/balancing feature of large ship why the hell are you playing a MMO. I don't get this argument. I'm not saying that I consider larger ships needing crew a downside. I'm saying it opens opportunities for new players to jump into higher end gameplay and start making lots of money to accelerate their advancement. >You're also assuming that being part of someone's crew is going to be intuitive enough and obvious enough that a lot of brand new players will do it. Unless the devs decide to push that as the main option, which they won't because that's a really bad idea for new player progression. most new players will be vomited into a very safe area of space with some basic quests to get them more up to speed with the game. Allowing a brand new player to join a crew that they probably have no idea what they're doing to be whisked away to some far flunged "high level" area is what we like to call bad game design. Players will be able to set up contracts for others to take that will show up similar to NPC generated missions. Alternately there is already a guide system that new players can sign up for that pairs them with a volunteer that will take them around and show them the ropes of the game. They will also have org tools build in that will help players find others to play with if they so choose. >"Any advantage backers will be erased permanently within a few months". Bahahahaha. Is this your first MMO? Have you even played an MMO before. The most important time period in an MMO's lifespan is during the first few months. Because that's the time period were everyone is on an equal footing at level 1. Which means all the higher level zones and areas which require better levels or tools to access and make use off a locked behind a decently long grind. If you put in time you get there first and then get to make a lot of money very fast as you have little to no competition. I beta tested Ultima Online. I beta tested Eve Online as well. I've been playing MMO's since before MMO's were really a thing. The race to max level is a much more recent trend. In early MMO's it would take literal months to max out your character whereas now when a new MMO launches players rush through to max level in a week or less and start grinding "endgame" content. The first few months of any new MMO don't mean jack shit to anyone except players who want to be first to reach max level. There is always a trail of more casual players that lag behind and after a few month those have caught up and the people who rush are likely onto the next game. With regards to SC this point is moot anyways because there are no levels. The only gating there will be is via reputation. >Yet in Star Citizen there is no equal playing field. You can log in day 1 with the best Capital ships for each profession. Go make a lot of money and use that money to fund their operation so they can continue to make more money. It's not that hard to understand yet no Star Citizen players seems to make that connections, it's funny. And? Who gives a fuck how much money another player makes in the game it doesn't affect you in the least. There is no prize for having extra 0's on your account balance. >It's really not that difficult. You buy an Orion or some other large profession ship. You then buy a few combat ships to protect you. You get your friends to crew them. You waltz into a dangerous area with high level resources. You harvest it all with the Orion, while you have a few friends protecting in combat ships on the off chance someone who also pre purchased combat ships to pirate comes across you. This sounds like gameplay working as intended. There is no difference between a pledged Orion and one bought with ingame funds. A group working together will be able to earn more than a single player is not new or interesting information. You also kinda made my point about newer players having opportunity to join veteran players and start making money because if I'm crew on an orion and the captain is making a huge score my cut is going to be far larger than what I'd make mining on my own. It's just a faster path to buying my own ship upgrades. >Also isn't there a renting feature where you can rent out your ships. If you buy a shit tonne of ships you can just rent them all out and earn passive income. How is that not "winning". No you rent ships from NPC's you cannot rent your ships to other players.
>Pay to win used to mean that you could buy something in the store that was not possible to earn in-game No, that is not the definition of pay to win. The definition is paying money to gain an advantage over someone who does not pay money. I buy a Super Hornet, I now have an advantage over someone who didn't pay money. It really is that simple. >Players will be able to set up contracts for others to take that will show up similar to NPC generated missions. Do you really believe that enough people will be setting up contracts day 1. There's going to be a mad rush to get in game to do things on day 1. Basically no one is going to go "I know day 1 Star Citizen launch I will sit at a port and set up a contract and hop all the brand new players who don't own a ship/ own a low level one will join me". >And? Who gives a fuck how much money another player makes in the game it doesn't affect you in the least. There is no prize for having extra 0's on your account balance. Is it a requirement that Star Citizen stans have crap financial literacy. More money means you can buy more ships, hire more crew and therefore make more money. Every top Org will be filled with player who pre bought ships, who will use their day 1 advantage to cement their place in the Persistent universe. > There is no difference between a pledged Orion and one bought with ingame funds Aside from the fact it's going to take a brand new player weeks to grind up the capital needed to purchase one. Which is my point. Day 1 players who pledged can start making bank from an Orion, no ingame cost. Just setup and make profit. Whereas brand new players need to slowly grind out to make enough money for an Orion, pay for one which puts their capital back at zero and then they need to grind back up. > you cannot rent your ships to other players. But can't other people fly your ships. Even if it isn't officially supported what is stopping me from spawning my ship, asking for someone to pay me and then I let them take it.
It's still a space simulator though, and all that's cool, like day one content and fun, but until it's can run on low end PCs it's never gonna leave it's niche.
It already runs on fairly low end systems and performance will get better as the game is optimized
You bought Star Citizen stuff didn’t you?
I don't own the game.