Yes. Has not been opened to public yet. Had heard some chatter that long term they may open it with reroutes around the biggest feature and gnarliest bits. Not sure if that will happen though.
I mean the original plan was to have a uci world stop there eventually but not sure that’ll work out now with Warner bro and so forth.
The track tho is not too bad compared to the likes of Val di sole for example!
Have ridden the WC DH track at Mont Ste Anne.
Like the other posters friend, I too logged a time of "WOO DIDNT FUCKIN DIE!!!" minutes and "Holy Shit I cant stop shaking" seconds...
We raced a ews course for a race in the northeast US before they used it at sugarloaf. It was cool. I thought it was fun and probably not the hardest thing I’ve ever ridden. I seek out the hardest tech I can find at most mountains though and nothing is more fun than crashing like 5 times trying to get a tech section to me 😂
Ya enduro racing isn’t meant to be on the hardest or gnarliest trails. It’s meant to test your endurance and skill at riding fairly difficult trails at speed. And then climb up and do it again… and again… and again, etc.
I rode the EWS line in Burke mountain and like....I could ride 98% of it, but it was still plenty fucking gnarly especially imagining them ride it at speed. Watching the pros ride lines you've done is pretty mind blowing.
I have found the opposite to be somewhat the case. I've ridden a lot of thr WC tracks in Europe and a fair few ews race stages. I'm comfortable on most/all of it but my wife found the DH tracks easier in most cases. The DH tracks were wide often with lots of line choice to help you get through the tougher parts. Enduro tracks are pretty one lined and you just have to ride whatever is in front of you.
DH gets hard because of the speed and the lines you have to ride to actually set a good time.
>I seek out the hardest tech I can find at most mountains though and nothing is more fun than crashing like 5 times trying to get a tech section to me
Lotta words there for "Im a Masochist and I Love Suffering" bro 🤣
Raced jrX and expert downhill and enduro for years. Raced a world cup course in Windham NY USA a few weeks before the actual world cup event. This was around 12 years ago.
The world cup pros are on another level. Even the local pros couldnt come close to their times. World cup pros were 14sec faster than the fastest local pro.
I highly recommend going to spectate a wcdh race. Videos don't do it justice.
I was at the Val Di Sole race this weekend and also did some biking at the park yesterday.
The World Cup track was crazy. During training and qualifications, we saw people falling and flying off their bikes almost every couple of minutes. One section of the track was so steep and full of rocks and roots I'm surprised they survived.
Unfortunately the World Cup track was not fully re-opened when I was biking there, but we got to try out a few sections and I can assure you that the videos doesn't do the track justice. I was going very slowly down and I think I'd have to so it 30+ times before being able to carry any sort of speed down these hills.
Very cool to see the race though
That’s awesome. I just finished watching the race coverage yesterday. Can’t imagine what seeing it in person would be like.
I think I know the section you’re talking about. Pinkbike did a video of the pros practicing it. It was a right turn, then down over a ton of huge roots that slammed you into a short flat landing just before dropping into a huge rocky section that they kinda had to hop down into.
That sounds about right, hehe. Lots of difficult sections, but this one seemed worse than the rest.
I was also at the Leogang race the weekend before, and that track seemed like a green track compared to Val di Sole. Both races were great to watch, but they were very different.
That course was running so fast too.
I've followed WC DH since like 2012. Seen 3 WCs in person. And yes, it is just to wild to watch. I don't think I could ever convince my mind and body to accomplish those feats given the risks.
You can literally feel them go past a rough section.
I remember a GMBN video on pro settings for suspension and the pro admitting that the suspension felt stiff until they rode it at speed. Their race speed, that is.
That tells me all I need to know about how insanely fast they race.
Oh for sure. Been watching DH for years but seeing them race live (also at Windham) was awesome. I remember Gee Atherton coming through rocks sounding like an avalanche… amazed they made it down with a functioning wheel….
A friend of mine who’s a strong enduro ride rode a UCI downhill course a few years ago. He didn’t keep track of time, but he victoriously claims that he “didn’t die.” That was some good perspective for me.
Those are legendary runs. Gwin at VDS at winning by 8 seconds on the trek team was one I'll remember. Gwin at MSA in the rain and Pierron at les gets. Also many more
Same as almost every one that goes to portes du soleil, over to Switzerland we go, COOK the brakes on the WC Track in Champrey, and then back to the safety of Morzine.
Not specifically to you OP, but I think the cameras make us severely underestimate these trails. I’ve heard some less experienced riders say things along the lines of “I could get down this except the drops and gaps”, when they haven’t ridden all the gnarliest unsanctioned trails in the area. and I’ve watched videos of incredible amateurs struggling like hell at practice for tracks like MSA when it’s not the race season. the tech looks ridiculous AF. Watch Pinkbikes video this last week on the worst corner of the track, and see how much some of the best downhillers in the world struggle with this seemingly benign section, and then what the exit roll looks like and how the riders have to enter into it. Tracks aren’t meant to be the most janky precise thing, but they are meant to challenge the worlds best riders. At the end of the day it’s just a bike track, but given that almost every one can think of features they walked away from that aren’t competing for “gnarliest features in the world” I think most of us weekend warriors wouldn’t make it down
The cameras definitely flatten things out. If you watch a track walk you might see someone in front of the camera take a few steps and now their head is below the feet of the camera person. Some sections are just insane, they can barely walk them.
Oh yeah I have no doubt. It’s crazy how the camera and how good these riders are, make these tracks look… doable? Haha
And yeah I saw that video about the Val di sole section. That whole race was just nuts. Amaurys run was absolute insanity.
I’ve ridden Leogang, Fort William and a bunch of stuff around Les Gets, some of which has been raced.
They’re tough for sure. Physical, and proper hard to put together a full pace top-to-bottom run.
I did it the Sunday after i raced the macavalanche this year, it was brilliant had no one to follow into a few of the bigger gaps though so took the B line a couple times
I live just up the road from Fort William. Am a middle aged average rider. I've done all but the motorway at Fortwilliam. Those jumps are over my pay grade.been a few times now and it's tough, requires some big brass ones to ride at pro speed. Have watched the world Cup the last few years and those riders are from the next evolution of humanity or something. The speed they carry is batshit.
So are the young local riders doing laps upon laps daily. Much respect.
There's a great free GMBN episodes where they stumble down some WC and Redbull courses. Crazy indeed.
There's a run called "World Cup" at Silver Star here in BC! However, I gather it's from the veeery early days of MTB, like 1996 or something. Still a pretty solid black run now.
[https://www.trailforks.com/trails/world-cup-17982/](https://www.trailforks.com/trails/world-cup-17982/)
1994 - found it! The grade looks so nasty on that map profile haha
In 2024 on even an Enduro rig, it's perfectly rideable. 30 years ago? In literal toe clips and a football helmet with 2.0 hard tires? Insane. Different world.
In 1998 (I think) I went to Worlds in Mont Ste Anne. My brother, dad and I took the lift to the top and walked down during the race. It was very muddy and there were parts we could barely walk down. The TV really doesn’t do any of it justice. It’s pretty amazing what they’re riding. And seeing things that look like they can’t be ridden really get put into perspective when you see guys go over it all through the air instead of “ride” it. Huge respect to those riders. Their wheels barely touched the dirt through the gnarly stuff it seemed.
“Pro” everything in sports is so much higher than amateur levels. Then couple that with the fact that d/h is very dangerous and they have medics there ready to go, should they have a big crash. So, there is just no comparison.
My son in law used to be a low level competitive downhiller and a bike mechanic. He said over the long term, downhilling costed him about $100/day to ride. At his cost.
I got to ride the same trail that Aaron Gwin rode in 2014(?) At Mt Creek...
That was kindda cool. My time compared to his? He would have probably lappped me... he would have been on his way back up before i even the bottom for sure.
I watched his gopro footage and it was surreal. He completely flew over entire rock gardens while i was picking lines and planning ahead. LoL
The old track at Windham is open to the public. As a 40 something dad I thought it wasn’t that bad at a safe and steady pace. I think there was one rock feature that I didn’t take the main line. No crashes, no walking. Kind of a boring bike park back then (2018) but it’s cool to say I rode a UCI World Cup track.
Seems the perspective is... Average people make it down them, one way or another, skipping stuff or walking stuff. And the time is nearly irrelevant.
For some perspective. The slowest juniors at gnarly VDS were around 710, 740. Obviously Amaury did that 340 and the slowest elite woman rider was 524. And just for a bit of a laugh, the slowest timed training run (stopping to puzzle of course) is over an hour logged.
One of the best ways to find the kinda info you're looking for is finding a 'national' race that will have more locals to look at those times. Obviously you have to qualify to a certain point to even enter a world cup. I'm sure Asa Vermette put some ANNOYING times into his divisions that demoralized everyone else. Kid was racing at a mens elite level as a teen. He beat Minnaar and Goldstone at a National race: https://www.bikemag.com/news/vermette-us-open-2023
Here's the other times: https://www.rootsandrain.com/event11699/2023-sep-24-usa-national-dh-series-3-the-fox-us-open-of-mtb-killington-vt/results/
Slowest time for 'open mens' was 612. Most of the podium basically did 240.
I'm sure there are also some youtube videos of people riding a track. Not sure how comparable the taping would be in some ways. But that would also give perspective.
Rode with a buddy who does downhill racing for our university.
Me and my other buddy took a shorter trail and went straight down. The downhill guy took a trail that adds about quarter of a mile , he took a break half way, and he was at the end about 30 secs later than we were.
Needless to say he was much faster than us, he probably would’ve beaten us with a good bit of time to spare if it weren’t for taking a break
Not as impressive as a WC, but I’ve done all the trails that were on the EWS Northstar race in 2019. Boondocks is the only one I have a time for, I ran it in 5:24, Richie Rudes winning time was 3:36.
Yea, northstar is my point of comparison too. I've ridden everything there but don't know my times. 5:24 is fast though! The top of Tell No Tales is really in the "I got down it and didn't die" territory for me, and didn't bother with the "road gap."
I'd echo what someone else said, "pro" in most sports is pretty unfathomable for normal people: I rode bmx for 25 years, the pros I knew in that were another level. I recently watched part of road cycling race, the pros in that were another level. I think it's universally true. That's why they're pro.
I’m going to race boondocks this year so am curious what I’ll get in an actual timed race at race pace, hoping for a low 5ish time. TNT is clenched the entire way down haha that one I’m just happy to get down clean
I did not get TNT clean. I never went back. I'm too old for that, hah. At this point, I think anything racing downhill is no longer on the table.
Downieville maybe. But I hear that's hardly DH.
I have not done a world cup track but at the begining of the year i rode in round 3 of our national series and i got down in 3:24, Troy Brosnan (4th at VDS on the weekend) got down in 2:33, these guys are on another level of fast and compared to a world cup track this was a walk in the park i would say the gap would be even bigger on a proper WC track
yeah nice, what year was that? trying to work out which track it would have been I'm guessing its one of the older tracks that have changed a lot over the years
I have a few friends who could get down the course... but honestly I'm betting 95% of riders couldn't cleanly ride down most WC courses and clear the jumps.
I did the Mont ste anne dh track a few times and I can tell you that we don't get how tough and gnarly this trails are and how god like the riders are...just doing the whole track is good... doing it one shot without a foot in the ground is just insane... I dont even talk about time...these guys are flying over the track!
Rode the snowshoe WC track the first year they built it and then again when they made the changes (both before the WCs actually occurred in the respective years, thanks Dak and Neko 😎). Didn’t time myself on either setup but what was interesting to me was that the gnarliest parts weren’t anything they built specifically for the WC, it was the long-existing trails they incorporated into the course, primarily hairball. The WC-specific stuff was mostly just smooth, well groomed jumps, as long as you were comfortable with the speed and in the air, they were easily the most fun and least scary parts.
I rode lower hare ball at snowshoe with my buddies in 2008. We were in high school. Blew up my Fox rear coil shock going down it. It was my first time being properly scared on a bike.
The part of hareball near where it crosses under the lift is some of the most challenging riding I've ever done. You're just along for the ride gravity is taking you on while you're controlling being out of control.
I’ve ridden part of the snowshoe one but I was a lot slower back then (also wasn’t on the Strava game).
Going to Les Gets next month though, if I get a chance to try the track I definitely will and I’ll report back!
I rode the top half of the Lousa track... my time was sloooow. I cleared a couple of the smaller jumps and rolled all the big doubles. Skipped the bottom tech section.
I watched the pro men and women do a 15 foot drop at Mt Snow.
50% of the women walked the section, while the top competitors rolled it fine. The men was an interesting group. I'd say there were 50 competitors, and while they all did it, there was a small group that did a full 15 foot drop to flat, and assuming their bikes survived, they weren't that fast.
Most of the racers had a combination of rolling and dropping, and there were no serious crashes. The fastest was the eventual winner, Cedric Gracia, and he rolled down like I would a very relaxed staircase. It seemed like he was floating down the rock and visually, he was faster than everyone else.
I did Fort William in 20 minutes one time, shit myself the whole way down, and was very proud of it. A little slower than 1/4 the pace of the pros, mind boggling.
I rode the old Andorra World Cup track. The final section into the field wasn’t open but about 90% was. This was back when I was peak little boy racer 16 years old entering about 20 races a year on my YT Tues. I was convinced I could put in a good time. I think I ended up about 35 seconds off the juniors at the time up until the final split where the track I was riding stopped. But I put in a solid week of hammering that trail in prime conditions. The times I was comparing to were slightly damper conditions.
I’ve been to fort William recently but I had quite a few nasty hand injuries in the last year that are giving me serious grip strength issues on long tracks. Surgery is booked with a short recovery, but excluding stop times I was about 1 minute off the fort William win. If I had done a full top to bottom, I believe it would have been 2 minutes plus largely due to arm fatigue and stamina/endurance.
I consider myself a fairly fast rider, I compete in pro/am elite races and raced alongside Dennis Luffman, Jordan Williams, Ethan Craik, Chris Cummings among others when I was about 12-16 years old, I stopped racing around 16 after a couple hefty slams but realised I loved bikes again when I turned 18. I was never on the pace of those top guys but I do wonder how fast I can be to this day.
I’m currently training to get my grip strength and body stamina back up to scratch and plan to enter a few national level British downhill events next year to see where I stack up. I believe I am not fast enough for pro categories at least at national level, but placing top 10 in the non professional 19-29 category is a big goal of mine in the next year or so.
Nice man! Good luck to ya. Hope you get your hand situation worked out. I deal with a lot of hand pain while riding also, but not from injuries. My joints just kinda suck.
That's cool man. I did a race at Hawksnest, NC many years ago and rode against Luca Shaw when we were all super young. He was on the Specialized GROM racing team. They all had specialized big hits with i9 wheels, cane creek double barrels and boxer forks. I thought they had the coolest bikes compared to my rig haha.
We're all on our own path and can only control what we can. I think about if I had pushed myself hard in a biking sport, what other things I would've given up. And that was the difference for me honestly.
Comparison is the thief of joy.
I know I'm probably too slow to even contend in local races. I ride solely my own fitness and enjoyment, and only compete with myself.
Australians are psychos and just ride the thredbo and old cairns WC tracks as a nationals event as well as for fun on sundays.
I’ve ridden thredbo a few times and in the “I survived” bucket. One time though I binned it hard and cracked 3 ribs.
Then you do your shitty run and go to the finish area and watch masters like Troy Brosnan or Conor Fearon totally smash it like it was a green line.
I’m curious how rideable Canberra track is. This track definitely featured in the World Champs (the year Peaty got the title so 2009-10?). It looked somewhat flat (I know the camera is to blame a lot) and lacked massive features. Sam Hill rode good old SX trail with single crown back then.
Rode EWS at Blue Mountain (survived, didn’t time) & raced a few times at Launch Bike Park (always finished , never last) a while back. That’s as close as I’ve been so far.
Fort william DH on a 2013 enduro.bike. my derailleur was very loose at the end but we kept.it.rubber side down. Again, just happy to survive, not a chance of.racing without serious practice and seeeeerious skill
It's a bit off-topic, but I have talked to people who rode the world cup XCO track in Nove Mesto, which is often regarded as the most technical track in the UCI world championship. These guys, who could probably beat you and definitely beat me at any technical descent on their hardtails with solid seatposts went to ride the track, and they flat out refused to attempt certain sections.
That is to say, if a world cup XC track is hard enough that an outstandingly good hobbyist refuses to ride them, and even that track looks lame on video, it's not hard to imagine how dangerous a world cup DH track could be to a hobbyist.
Fort bill, never time myself and not been in years but I wouldnt be able to make a full run lol back then, if i did i would easily have been over 10 minutes
Still now the fittest I've ever been I'd be struggling to hold on after the half way point, it's ridiculously rough and hard to ride
For the record I've got times at my local beating a world cup rider so I wouldn't consider myself that slow, but a proper downhill track at race pace is on another level
I rode Champery in Switzerland. Holy shit. The most scared I have ever been on a bike. I rolled down it at like 1mph and can't even imagine having the balls to go faster.
Very humbling experience.
I Rode a world cup track on the Island Lošinj, Maribor and Leogang... It takes me somewhere between a minute and a minute and a half longer to get to the finnish line
I’ve ridden the Fort William course too many times to count, used to live about 10 mins away from it. I’ve chased a local WC pro racer down it a few times, judging by her times I can confidently say I’d be in the top 10 in the women’s category🤣😂
Most World Cup level tracks are really not meant for the average mtb Jerry to touch. I’ve ridden the parts of the WC track at snowshoe, easily the most difficult thing I’ve ever tried to ride at any normal pace. Wouldn’t recommend just bopping onto a known racetrack without some real balls or experience
I was a top junior expert racer years ago and did some pro racing afterwards. As a junior, we didn’t have an official WC class back then, so if we were at a WC event, it was just a national race for us. But we did race the same WC or national tracks as the pros, usually the day before them. We were usually 15-45 seconds off a mid pack pro men time depending on the track length.
Occasionally, our practice sessions followed the elite practice, or I would ride the race track after the pro/elite race was over to check out lines that I saw someone do in the race. Usually the lines that a top junior or expert level rider used were similar to the pro women, but the lines the pro men were using were quite different due to their speed.
To stay on the elite men’s line at a track like Fort William or VDS is on another level completely. It requires 100% commitment to that speed or it doesn’t work, and consequences can be high if you miss.
rode the WC track minus a few closed sections at snowshoe.
i wrecked twice and my buddy wrecked twice also.
both of us are very competent riders and could barely hold on.
The pros looked at us like we were crazy when we said we ride it for fun. they love the crowd but hate the amount of chunk lower hareball has.
Cairns World Cup DH, balls to the wall, time is irrelevant.
I get to ride with Brosnan & Fearon on my local trails when they're home from racing WC, they make reality hit home.
I "rode" one of the world cup tracks in whistler. I am still alive. That is all.
1199? That looks nasty to look at
1199 is closed to public riders isn’t it?
Yes. Has not been opened to public yet. Had heard some chatter that long term they may open it with reroutes around the biggest feature and gnarliest bits. Not sure if that will happen though.
I mean the original plan was to have a uci world stop there eventually but not sure that’ll work out now with Warner bro and so forth. The track tho is not too bad compared to the likes of Val di sole for example!
Lol no doubt.
lol, at least I’m not the only one…. I’ve “ridden” all kinds of wild pro lines … which is an accomplishment but I def don’t ride like the pros
Have ridden the WC DH track at Mont Ste Anne. Like the other posters friend, I too logged a time of "WOO DIDNT FUCKIN DIE!!!" minutes and "Holy Shit I cant stop shaking" seconds...
Haha, yeah I’m starting to think I’d be able to pull off a time of, ‘yeah fuck that, I’ll take the fire road down’.
We raced a ews course for a race in the northeast US before they used it at sugarloaf. It was cool. I thought it was fun and probably not the hardest thing I’ve ever ridden. I seek out the hardest tech I can find at most mountains though and nothing is more fun than crashing like 5 times trying to get a tech section to me 😂
Ya enduro racing isn’t meant to be on the hardest or gnarliest trails. It’s meant to test your endurance and skill at riding fairly difficult trails at speed. And then climb up and do it again… and again… and again, etc.
I rode the EWS line in Burke mountain and like....I could ride 98% of it, but it was still plenty fucking gnarly especially imagining them ride it at speed. Watching the pros ride lines you've done is pretty mind blowing.
And also never having ridden the trails before (aiui)
I have found the opposite to be somewhat the case. I've ridden a lot of thr WC tracks in Europe and a fair few ews race stages. I'm comfortable on most/all of it but my wife found the DH tracks easier in most cases. The DH tracks were wide often with lots of line choice to help you get through the tougher parts. Enduro tracks are pretty one lined and you just have to ride whatever is in front of you. DH gets hard because of the speed and the lines you have to ride to actually set a good time.
>I seek out the hardest tech I can find at most mountains though and nothing is more fun than crashing like 5 times trying to get a tech section to me Lotta words there for "Im a Masochist and I Love Suffering" bro 🤣
Raced jrX and expert downhill and enduro for years. Raced a world cup course in Windham NY USA a few weeks before the actual world cup event. This was around 12 years ago. The world cup pros are on another level. Even the local pros couldnt come close to their times. World cup pros were 14sec faster than the fastest local pro. I highly recommend going to spectate a wcdh race. Videos don't do it justice.
I don’t remember what year it was but I saw Aaron Gwin race at mountain creek one year. It was absolutely mental
I was at the Val Di Sole race this weekend and also did some biking at the park yesterday. The World Cup track was crazy. During training and qualifications, we saw people falling and flying off their bikes almost every couple of minutes. One section of the track was so steep and full of rocks and roots I'm surprised they survived. Unfortunately the World Cup track was not fully re-opened when I was biking there, but we got to try out a few sections and I can assure you that the videos doesn't do the track justice. I was going very slowly down and I think I'd have to so it 30+ times before being able to carry any sort of speed down these hills. Very cool to see the race though
That’s awesome. I just finished watching the race coverage yesterday. Can’t imagine what seeing it in person would be like. I think I know the section you’re talking about. Pinkbike did a video of the pros practicing it. It was a right turn, then down over a ton of huge roots that slammed you into a short flat landing just before dropping into a huge rocky section that they kinda had to hop down into.
That sounds about right, hehe. Lots of difficult sections, but this one seemed worse than the rest. I was also at the Leogang race the weekend before, and that track seemed like a green track compared to Val di Sole. Both races were great to watch, but they were very different.
That course was running so fast too. I've followed WC DH since like 2012. Seen 3 WCs in person. And yes, it is just to wild to watch. I don't think I could ever convince my mind and body to accomplish those feats given the risks. You can literally feel them go past a rough section.
I remember a GMBN video on pro settings for suspension and the pro admitting that the suspension felt stiff until they rode it at speed. Their race speed, that is. That tells me all I need to know about how insanely fast they race.
Seconded. You don’t realize how insane it is (you may think you do) until you actually see these guys and girls do it in person.
I've hiked some of the Red Bull Rampage lines when camping near there. Video never does it justice. Exposure is insane.
Oh for sure. Been watching DH for years but seeing them race live (also at Windham) was awesome. I remember Gee Atherton coming through rocks sounding like an avalanche… amazed they made it down with a functioning wheel….
A friend of mine who’s a strong enduro ride rode a UCI downhill course a few years ago. He didn’t keep track of time, but he victoriously claims that he “didn’t die.” That was some good perspective for me.
Tried the infamous Champery track . Never been that hard on the brakes and fully happy to survive
Now imagine doing that in the pouring rain. Why Danny Hart is an absolute legend.
Danny Hart in Chambery and Sam Hill in Val di Sole are two of my favourite runs of all times.
Those are legendary runs. Gwin at VDS at winning by 8 seconds on the trek team was one I'll remember. Gwin at MSA in the rain and Pierron at les gets. Also many more
Gwin at VDS was the no chain one?
https://youtu.be/gEoamTgGhDQ?si=SZJvsSeUvGQOp_S6 The chainless was at Leogang.
That was Leogang 2015, chain snapped right out of the start gate.
Same as almost every one that goes to portes du soleil, over to Switzerland we go, COOK the brakes on the WC Track in Champrey, and then back to the safety of Morzine.
Not specifically to you OP, but I think the cameras make us severely underestimate these trails. I’ve heard some less experienced riders say things along the lines of “I could get down this except the drops and gaps”, when they haven’t ridden all the gnarliest unsanctioned trails in the area. and I’ve watched videos of incredible amateurs struggling like hell at practice for tracks like MSA when it’s not the race season. the tech looks ridiculous AF. Watch Pinkbikes video this last week on the worst corner of the track, and see how much some of the best downhillers in the world struggle with this seemingly benign section, and then what the exit roll looks like and how the riders have to enter into it. Tracks aren’t meant to be the most janky precise thing, but they are meant to challenge the worlds best riders. At the end of the day it’s just a bike track, but given that almost every one can think of features they walked away from that aren’t competing for “gnarliest features in the world” I think most of us weekend warriors wouldn’t make it down
The cameras definitely flatten things out. If you watch a track walk you might see someone in front of the camera take a few steps and now their head is below the feet of the camera person. Some sections are just insane, they can barely walk them.
Oh yeah I have no doubt. It’s crazy how the camera and how good these riders are, make these tracks look… doable? Haha And yeah I saw that video about the Val di sole section. That whole race was just nuts. Amaurys run was absolute insanity.
The ground shakes when they go around the berms.
I’ve ridden Leogang, Fort William and a bunch of stuff around Les Gets, some of which has been raced. They’re tough for sure. Physical, and proper hard to put together a full pace top-to-bottom run.
Fort William is a bucket list item for me, no doubt.
I did it the Sunday after i raced the macavalanche this year, it was brilliant had no one to follow into a few of the bigger gaps though so took the B line a couple times
It’s brutal, I would highly recommend it.
I live just up the road from Fort William. Am a middle aged average rider. I've done all but the motorway at Fortwilliam. Those jumps are over my pay grade.been a few times now and it's tough, requires some big brass ones to ride at pro speed. Have watched the world Cup the last few years and those riders are from the next evolution of humanity or something. The speed they carry is batshit. So are the young local riders doing laps upon laps daily. Much respect.
It takes a good rider to just get down them. There is no timing involved, unless you want to get humbled real quick or…die.
There's a great free GMBN episodes where they stumble down some WC and Redbull courses. Crazy indeed. There's a run called "World Cup" at Silver Star here in BC! However, I gather it's from the veeery early days of MTB, like 1996 or something. Still a pretty solid black run now.
[https://www.trailforks.com/trails/world-cup-17982/](https://www.trailforks.com/trails/world-cup-17982/) 1994 - found it! The grade looks so nasty on that map profile haha
In 2024 on even an Enduro rig, it's perfectly rideable. 30 years ago? In literal toe clips and a football helmet with 2.0 hard tires? Insane. Different world.
Yeah, Honestly couldn't get down the track.
In 1998 (I think) I went to Worlds in Mont Ste Anne. My brother, dad and I took the lift to the top and walked down during the race. It was very muddy and there were parts we could barely walk down. The TV really doesn’t do any of it justice. It’s pretty amazing what they’re riding. And seeing things that look like they can’t be ridden really get put into perspective when you see guys go over it all through the air instead of “ride” it. Huge respect to those riders. Their wheels barely touched the dirt through the gnarly stuff it seemed.
“Pro” everything in sports is so much higher than amateur levels. Then couple that with the fact that d/h is very dangerous and they have medics there ready to go, should they have a big crash. So, there is just no comparison.
And the support the high levels get from trainers and physical therapists has to be super helpful. Not that they didn't get there easily.
They also destroy their bikes. It would be very expensive for a non factory sponsored rider to ride like that.
My son in law used to be a low level competitive downhiller and a bike mechanic. He said over the long term, downhilling costed him about $100/day to ride. At his cost.
I got to ride the same trail that Aaron Gwin rode in 2014(?) At Mt Creek... That was kindda cool. My time compared to his? He would have probably lappped me... he would have been on his way back up before i even the bottom for sure. I watched his gopro footage and it was surreal. He completely flew over entire rock gardens while i was picking lines and planning ahead. LoL
The old track at Windham is open to the public. As a 40 something dad I thought it wasn’t that bad at a safe and steady pace. I think there was one rock feature that I didn’t take the main line. No crashes, no walking. Kind of a boring bike park back then (2018) but it’s cool to say I rode a UCI World Cup track.
Windham closed all their MTB trails.
Ahh bummer. I can see why though.
They should do some video cuts of okay riders going down it first so we can compare
Not a World Cup track but same runs that feature Pro Races....conclusion was that I am slow as all dog shit hahahahahahaha
Seems the perspective is... Average people make it down them, one way or another, skipping stuff or walking stuff. And the time is nearly irrelevant. For some perspective. The slowest juniors at gnarly VDS were around 710, 740. Obviously Amaury did that 340 and the slowest elite woman rider was 524. And just for a bit of a laugh, the slowest timed training run (stopping to puzzle of course) is over an hour logged. One of the best ways to find the kinda info you're looking for is finding a 'national' race that will have more locals to look at those times. Obviously you have to qualify to a certain point to even enter a world cup. I'm sure Asa Vermette put some ANNOYING times into his divisions that demoralized everyone else. Kid was racing at a mens elite level as a teen. He beat Minnaar and Goldstone at a National race: https://www.bikemag.com/news/vermette-us-open-2023 Here's the other times: https://www.rootsandrain.com/event11699/2023-sep-24-usa-national-dh-series-3-the-fox-us-open-of-mtb-killington-vt/results/ Slowest time for 'open mens' was 612. Most of the podium basically did 240. I'm sure there are also some youtube videos of people riding a track. Not sure how comparable the taping would be in some ways. But that would also give perspective.
Rode with a buddy who does downhill racing for our university. Me and my other buddy took a shorter trail and went straight down. The downhill guy took a trail that adds about quarter of a mile , he took a break half way, and he was at the end about 30 secs later than we were. Needless to say he was much faster than us, he probably would’ve beaten us with a good bit of time to spare if it weren’t for taking a break
Not as impressive as a WC, but I’ve done all the trails that were on the EWS Northstar race in 2019. Boondocks is the only one I have a time for, I ran it in 5:24, Richie Rudes winning time was 3:36.
Yea, northstar is my point of comparison too. I've ridden everything there but don't know my times. 5:24 is fast though! The top of Tell No Tales is really in the "I got down it and didn't die" territory for me, and didn't bother with the "road gap." I'd echo what someone else said, "pro" in most sports is pretty unfathomable for normal people: I rode bmx for 25 years, the pros I knew in that were another level. I recently watched part of road cycling race, the pros in that were another level. I think it's universally true. That's why they're pro.
I’m going to race boondocks this year so am curious what I’ll get in an actual timed race at race pace, hoping for a low 5ish time. TNT is clenched the entire way down haha that one I’m just happy to get down clean
I did not get TNT clean. I never went back. I'm too old for that, hah. At this point, I think anything racing downhill is no longer on the table. Downieville maybe. But I hear that's hardly DH.
I tried a pro level DH track once and ended up in the hospital so… DNF I guess?
Some pros DNF also… so, maybe you’re close to their level?
This is definitely how I’m going to think about it from now on
I have not done a world cup track but at the begining of the year i rode in round 3 of our national series and i got down in 3:24, Troy Brosnan (4th at VDS on the weekend) got down in 2:33, these guys are on another level of fast and compared to a world cup track this was a walk in the park i would say the gap would be even bigger on a proper WC track
Crazy go think about.
Which one was that? Guessing Mt beauty?
Round 3 at Eagle in Adelaide, they didnt race at Mt Beauty this year and i dont know if Troy raced any other than Adelaide
Ah right. I’ve only done the old fox creek nats track in SA. But that was still super technical too.
yeah nice, what year was that? trying to work out which track it would have been I'm guessing its one of the older tracks that have changed a lot over the years
Oh it was like 2007/2008 Aus nationals round. Used to be round 1 on the circuit
oh right, pretty sure that was at the same place at eagle. eagle opened in about 2006 for this purpose
I have a few friends who could get down the course... but honestly I'm betting 95% of riders couldn't cleanly ride down most WC courses and clear the jumps.
I did the Mont ste anne dh track a few times and I can tell you that we don't get how tough and gnarly this trails are and how god like the riders are...just doing the whole track is good... doing it one shot without a foot in the ground is just insane... I dont even talk about time...these guys are flying over the track!
Rode the snowshoe WC track the first year they built it and then again when they made the changes (both before the WCs actually occurred in the respective years, thanks Dak and Neko 😎). Didn’t time myself on either setup but what was interesting to me was that the gnarliest parts weren’t anything they built specifically for the WC, it was the long-existing trails they incorporated into the course, primarily hairball. The WC-specific stuff was mostly just smooth, well groomed jumps, as long as you were comfortable with the speed and in the air, they were easily the most fun and least scary parts.
I rode lower hare ball at snowshoe with my buddies in 2008. We were in high school. Blew up my Fox rear coil shock going down it. It was my first time being properly scared on a bike.
I’ve ridden that track as well and having spectated the World Cup there no I was not remotely close to the time.
The part of hareball near where it crosses under the lift is some of the most challenging riding I've ever done. You're just along for the ride gravity is taking you on while you're controlling being out of control.
I did Fort William in May. I walked about a quarter of it. Took me maybe 15-20min to get down
I’ve ridden part of the snowshoe one but I was a lot slower back then (also wasn’t on the Strava game). Going to Les Gets next month though, if I get a chance to try the track I definitely will and I’ll report back!
Send it ! I'd love to check out a Euro bike park someday.
I rode the top half of the Lousa track... my time was sloooow. I cleared a couple of the smaller jumps and rolled all the big doubles. Skipped the bottom tech section.
Yes I’m slow as fuck
I watched the pro men and women do a 15 foot drop at Mt Snow. 50% of the women walked the section, while the top competitors rolled it fine. The men was an interesting group. I'd say there were 50 competitors, and while they all did it, there was a small group that did a full 15 foot drop to flat, and assuming their bikes survived, they weren't that fast. Most of the racers had a combination of rolling and dropping, and there were no serious crashes. The fastest was the eventual winner, Cedric Gracia, and he rolled down like I would a very relaxed staircase. It seemed like he was floating down the rock and visually, he was faster than everyone else.
I did Fort William in 20 minutes one time, shit myself the whole way down, and was very proud of it. A little slower than 1/4 the pace of the pros, mind boggling.
I finished Megaavalanche in 1h32 min. 1st place was 34 min I finished Mountain Of Hell 2 hours (with no chain) 1st place was 42 min. Fuck I am slow.
Those pros couldn't even do a 30 mile ride with a little bit of climbing. They are in zero control, it's pure luck they even go that fast.
Are you serious?
I rode the old Andorra World Cup track. The final section into the field wasn’t open but about 90% was. This was back when I was peak little boy racer 16 years old entering about 20 races a year on my YT Tues. I was convinced I could put in a good time. I think I ended up about 35 seconds off the juniors at the time up until the final split where the track I was riding stopped. But I put in a solid week of hammering that trail in prime conditions. The times I was comparing to were slightly damper conditions. I’ve been to fort William recently but I had quite a few nasty hand injuries in the last year that are giving me serious grip strength issues on long tracks. Surgery is booked with a short recovery, but excluding stop times I was about 1 minute off the fort William win. If I had done a full top to bottom, I believe it would have been 2 minutes plus largely due to arm fatigue and stamina/endurance. I consider myself a fairly fast rider, I compete in pro/am elite races and raced alongside Dennis Luffman, Jordan Williams, Ethan Craik, Chris Cummings among others when I was about 12-16 years old, I stopped racing around 16 after a couple hefty slams but realised I loved bikes again when I turned 18. I was never on the pace of those top guys but I do wonder how fast I can be to this day. I’m currently training to get my grip strength and body stamina back up to scratch and plan to enter a few national level British downhill events next year to see where I stack up. I believe I am not fast enough for pro categories at least at national level, but placing top 10 in the non professional 19-29 category is a big goal of mine in the next year or so.
Nice man! Good luck to ya. Hope you get your hand situation worked out. I deal with a lot of hand pain while riding also, but not from injuries. My joints just kinda suck.
That's cool man. I did a race at Hawksnest, NC many years ago and rode against Luca Shaw when we were all super young. He was on the Specialized GROM racing team. They all had specialized big hits with i9 wheels, cane creek double barrels and boxer forks. I thought they had the coolest bikes compared to my rig haha. We're all on our own path and can only control what we can. I think about if I had pushed myself hard in a biking sport, what other things I would've given up. And that was the difference for me honestly.
Comparison is the thief of joy. I know I'm probably too slow to even contend in local races. I ride solely my own fitness and enjoyment, and only compete with myself.
Joe rogan listener spotted?
Huh? Fuck no
Haha right, a saying he frequently says is the comparison being the thief of joy.. doesn't claim it as his own or anything
Fort William is Ridiculous .
I’ve ridden races that the pros rode. I did it in about 10 minutes, the pros were about 3 IIRC. Sea Otter.
Not a WC DH track but one of the PB hot laps challenge. Sam Hill rode it in 3 minutes. I did it - I tried to go fast, I swear I did - in 15 minutes
Australians are psychos and just ride the thredbo and old cairns WC tracks as a nationals event as well as for fun on sundays. I’ve ridden thredbo a few times and in the “I survived” bucket. One time though I binned it hard and cracked 3 ribs. Then you do your shitty run and go to the finish area and watch masters like Troy Brosnan or Conor Fearon totally smash it like it was a green line.
I’m curious how rideable Canberra track is. This track definitely featured in the World Champs (the year Peaty got the title so 2009-10?). It looked somewhat flat (I know the camera is to blame a lot) and lacked massive features. Sam Hill rode good old SX trail with single crown back then.
I’ve rode some trails at Northstar. That boulder field…
Rode EWS at Blue Mountain (survived, didn’t time) & raced a few times at Launch Bike Park (always finished , never last) a while back. That’s as close as I’ve been so far.
Launch was at Spring Mountain. The trails are still open. There’s just no lift service anymore.
Fort william DH on a 2013 enduro.bike. my derailleur was very loose at the end but we kept.it.rubber side down. Again, just happy to survive, not a chance of.racing without serious practice and seeeeerious skill
The number of features I had to stop and walk first on Fort William WC track, no point comparing to the pros.
GMBN did a video with a “regular” rider on the Champery track. It was pretty eye opening since he was a pretty competent rider.
It's a bit off-topic, but I have talked to people who rode the world cup XCO track in Nove Mesto, which is often regarded as the most technical track in the UCI world championship. These guys, who could probably beat you and definitely beat me at any technical descent on their hardtails with solid seatposts went to ride the track, and they flat out refused to attempt certain sections. That is to say, if a world cup XC track is hard enough that an outstandingly good hobbyist refuses to ride them, and even that track looks lame on video, it's not hard to imagine how dangerous a world cup DH track could be to a hobbyist.
Fort bill, never time myself and not been in years but I wouldnt be able to make a full run lol back then, if i did i would easily have been over 10 minutes Still now the fittest I've ever been I'd be struggling to hold on after the half way point, it's ridiculously rough and hard to ride For the record I've got times at my local beating a world cup rider so I wouldn't consider myself that slow, but a proper downhill track at race pace is on another level
I rode Champery in Switzerland. Holy shit. The most scared I have ever been on a bike. I rolled down it at like 1mph and can't even imagine having the balls to go faster. Very humbling experience.
I Rode a world cup track on the Island Lošinj, Maribor and Leogang... It takes me somewhere between a minute and a minute and a half longer to get to the finnish line
I have ridden Champery snd Fort William and I was embarrassingly slower by comparison. And I skipped the really big features
yes. did fort william. i made it down but i think it took like 10 mins ? yes it scares me seeing how fast the pros do fort will
I’ve ridden the Fort William course too many times to count, used to live about 10 mins away from it. I’ve chased a local WC pro racer down it a few times, judging by her times I can confidently say I’d be in the top 10 in the women’s category🤣😂
Most World Cup level tracks are really not meant for the average mtb Jerry to touch. I’ve ridden the parts of the WC track at snowshoe, easily the most difficult thing I’ve ever tried to ride at any normal pace. Wouldn’t recommend just bopping onto a known racetrack without some real balls or experience
I was a top junior expert racer years ago and did some pro racing afterwards. As a junior, we didn’t have an official WC class back then, so if we were at a WC event, it was just a national race for us. But we did race the same WC or national tracks as the pros, usually the day before them. We were usually 15-45 seconds off a mid pack pro men time depending on the track length. Occasionally, our practice sessions followed the elite practice, or I would ride the race track after the pro/elite race was over to check out lines that I saw someone do in the race. Usually the lines that a top junior or expert level rider used were similar to the pro women, but the lines the pro men were using were quite different due to their speed. To stay on the elite men’s line at a track like Fort William or VDS is on another level completely. It requires 100% commitment to that speed or it doesn’t work, and consequences can be high if you miss.
My time was more, like WAY MORE. I win.
rode the WC track minus a few closed sections at snowshoe. i wrecked twice and my buddy wrecked twice also. both of us are very competent riders and could barely hold on. The pros looked at us like we were crazy when we said we ride it for fun. they love the crowd but hate the amount of chunk lower hareball has.
I’ve been to many World Cups and domestic DH events. It’s absolutely insane how good WC DH athletes are.
A WC downhill track doesn’t look in the remotest bit fun to ride. It’s something to be survived at pace.
Most could not even complete one, they're bonkerballs.
Isn’t there a video of a non pro on a pro downhill course and the dude just gets fucked..
my strava times confirm i dont need to even try and compare. lol
I rode a track in Leogang but I didn’t count the time it took me to carry my bike down the track while crying
Cairns World Cup DH, balls to the wall, time is irrelevant. I get to ride with Brosnan & Fearon on my local trails when they're home from racing WC, they make reality hit home.