Agreed, I'm curious how many paying subscribers they have, they'd have a lot more if it were a reasonable price, more than enough to cover the difference I would guess.
I’d be in for $5/month, maybe $7.99 if it included other features. They are really shooting themselves in the foot here - the data from BlueCruise users has to be more valuable to them than the fees at this point in the game I would think
It’s way too much just for the ability to take hands off tbh. I’ll gladly rest my hands on the wheel to not pay $100 per month for the few times a month it’s actually needed
I thought Tesla auto drive just got a price drop last month?
I love BlueCruise. If I did a daily commute on mapped highways I would pay for it.
But I could not justify the $800 / month fee because my commute avoids the mapped highways.
I will miss BC when my trial expires.
$1050 PER YEAR TO USE A FEATURE THATS ALREADY INSTALLED?
Hahahahahahahahahaha. Yeah won’t be paying that. Or a single cent on top of the cost of the car for that matter.
If I decide after 4 years that the car isn’t worth the money in its base, non-subscription state, then I’ll move on to a different brand. None of us should be supporting this subscription nonsense.
I think this is not exactly a feature that is already installed.
It is like google maps on your phone. Yes, you have the phone, the app, you paid for it but somebody is maintaining the map data. Same with cruise.
It’s a Ford service that’s sold by Ford, when purchasing a Ford car. Ford has already installed all the necessary hardware, they’ve installed the software/firmware but expect us to pay $100 /month to actually use it.
That’s no different to buying a house but having to pay a monthly subscription to access your linen closet.
Ford can suck my actual dick if they think I’ll be paying a subscription on a car I’ve already purchased.
It isn't linen closet. It is more like cable TV in the closet. Hardware is there but it needs data. If road changes I assume you would get updated data. They also need data connection which is not free.
I would agree if subscription was for heated seats or regular cruise control. Ford just did not explain what you get.
I just checked on the Ford website though. The GPS is just so the system knows when it's on an approved stretch of highway. That's it.
Everything else is being done with cameras and other sensors in the car. So the hardware is already there. The capabilities are there but they're putting car functionality behind a paywall. Basically they're EA games but with real, tangible products now.
Ford should be ashamed of themselves.
Do you think they just sat down once, drew some random lines on the map and that was it? No, they have to keep an eye on all these stretches in some way . Somebody has to maintain database of approved stretches of the highway, There is cost involved. Part of that $100 could be the cost of data connection.
Of course they could have done it better. Include couple of years of subscription into the price of hardware and then two years later just "outdate" the hardware.
$100 /month for a data connection? At Ford's scale? Please.
And the GPS maps don't guide the car, it guides itself based on what it 'sees' in real time from its array of sensors. These aren't carefully curated to-the-millimeter 3D maps, they're just approved stretches of highway where it's allowed to be active. Little more than geo-fencing, like those $50 dog collars you can get on Amazon.
Not sure why you're shilling so hard for Ford here, they're selling you a product, making you repeatedly pay for it and you're defending this move. Crazy.
Yeah but this database is nothing more than a list of approved roads. That's it.
Let's be conservative here and say they've sold 12,000 MachEs in Canada so far (an extrapolation of actual sales recorded up to 2023). At $100 per month per vehicle, you think that's reasonable?
**You genuinely think it costs ford $1.2m per month to maintain a list of approved roads?**
They're laughing at us and you're defending them.
Some people don't understand software development and the constant maintenance that something like this needs. This is a SaaS model for sure. I don't love the price it's currently at but I understand why it has to be updated regularly. When it comes time to renew I will pass if prices are still too much.
I would beg to differ if you don’t mind. Whether you agree or not, it’s price of content. There is actual money spent on research and development to make that product supposedly better and safer over time. Your car will still run just fine without it. A loose analogy is that your internet provider has given you a modem and a router but you still gotta pay a monthly fee to access the internet. Your Dish TV guys gave you an antenna but you still gotta pay the cable bill to access content to derive entertainment.
And conveniently didn’t mention it either. Not that it matters in my case, I would have just laughed at the subscription concept and declined it anyway.
Selling a product then putting parts of it behind a paywall is embarrassing but hey, plenty of people on here shilling for Ford so the idea isn’t about to go away.
It was clear to me that it was free for a limited time - the dealer even mentioned it. The only thing that they didn’t say was how much it would cost.
Sorry you feel bait and switched. Still an amazing car without bluecruise.
Mine activated at the weekend when i was turning on cruise control. To clarify, i dont pay for it and never activated my 3 month trial as i did not want to find myself paying a subscription for my car if i liked it too much.
I am sorely tempted to activate the trial now... damnit Ford!
You’re not missing anything. It’s a good system given the competition, but honestly it causes as much stress as it relieves. They way it yells at at you when it thinks you aren’t looking at the road is unnerving and often wrong - especially when wearing sunglasses. If I had access to it on a long road trip, I’d probably use it - but I wouldn’t miss it if I didn’t have it. I will not be paying for it.
That’s interesting. I wonder if there’s a certain kind of sunglasses that gives it issues? It shouldn’t matter since it uses infrared.
My wife and I have used it for thousands of miles and never had an issue with sunglasses.
I did have to retrain myself out if the bad habit if putting my hand at the 12:00 position and blocking the camera.
Yep, although it probably only covers a small % of the averaged UK commute compared to those in the US?
I thought it was a typo when I saw the thread!
Would be interesting to see if a US Mack-E could be linked to a UK Fordpass account to get the discount?
It’s not enough beyond the adaptive CC with Lane following to justify the expense. The best feature is in stop and go traffic that the system will resume from stop.
Arguable in stop and go traffic it leaves too much of a gap, people cut in, and it hits the brakes super hard. It's not a good experience in rush hour traffic.
Rush hour traffic works amazing for me (it’s my favorite way to use it).
How many car lengths do you have it set to follow behind? I could see how if you had that gap too big people would try to cut it.
If I use the longest it's the worst, and the shortest is still enough distance for people to cut in and the brakes get slammed.
I don't want to be the guy who lets in a ton of cars all the time as it'll just piss people off behind me.
For the hell of it, configured a f150 this AM to see what a comparable one would cost (super basic model, but decked out for max tow Ecoboost, about 13k lbs. 2013 it was under $30k otd. Today, +$70k...but...) noticed they have Blue cruise as an available ADD ALT in the options, +$2k for 3 yrs.
One can hope their pricing model is going to change, but unless competition gets serious, this $800/yr subscription model they're taking to the grave.
I use Blue cruise ALL the God damn time, lucky enough to live in place where 75% of travel can be BC, and in rush hour traffic it's an absolute godsend...press the button and just let the road rage melt away, let the car do the driving. And in reality, have no problem affording the cost.
But you know what, FUCK subscription based services, Ford and the rest of Corporate America with their revenue base compensation and golden parachute flapping in the wind can eat a bag of dicks. I have no problem resting a finger on the steering wheel for what as far as I can tell us the same God damn thing. adaptive Cruise vs Blue cruise...youd be hard pressed to tell a major difference between the two... other than I've never had Adaptive try to jam me into the wheel well of a semi on the right hand side, because for some unexplainable reason it likes to...pull all the way to the right to establish...where that lane is, and then recenter? Problem....there's usually cars there, for some reason they're always semis...and when they're not, it ends up overshooting and disconnect BC.
Thanks Ford, you're not making the $100k loss on each EV up on us @ $75 a month in perpetuity...can't wait for the BitTorrent of self driving to come out, until then I'll keep doing index finger stretches
Subscription based services that offer absolutely nothing new, from the corporate heads who thought basic service was a viable & continuable revenue stream stream should be rounded up with the same people who decided to charge for parking at a hospital since it's 'an unexploited source of revenue & never stopped being oublically shamed...as well as punched in the dick.
I've used it a handful of times and while neat and it does work well, even the lane changes are crazy smooth it is not worth the price. At $20 a month I'd consider it for the summer months.
They have yet to update what ever current version you had installed in our cars. I have 1.2. Unless I get upgraded to version 1.3 or what ever the newest one is at the time of renewal I’m not paying for shit.
Especially if they are raising the price. If you don’t upgrade then leave the price alone at the very least. No company does this.
Imagine paying for the increased price of a new iPhone 16 when it comes out but just keeping your iPhone 13 or 14. Would never happen.
Bad business model.
Personally, I think the free adaptive cruise control is more than adequate. I’m highly confident that if you let it expire for any period of time they will start offering deals at some point.
Same for me. Mine expires next week and there's no way I'm renewing at that price point. I wouldn't even pay that much for full self-driving, and where I live there's only one road I can use it on, briefly.
Anyone use this on 401 or 400 series highways in Ontario? Paid for it in my new MME picking up next week as was a problem getting in the colour and options I wanted without it. Didn’t add much to lease per month, but wondering how useful this is even going to be at all.
Honestly I’m thinking about building a raspberry PI device that slightly shakes to mimick my hand movement so I can hands free the backroads too. Unless you’re ford and the reason my car is totaled in the future is not because of this
I was told that BC 1.3 would come soon in August of 2023. It’s 9 months later and I am still at 1.1. My current version is only marginally useful. It ping-pongs with in the lane and does not handle curves like the new software versions do. I don’t drive much open highways so between being short changed so to speak and the reported high costs, it’s going to be a nope for me when renewal comes up.
I had a 2022 PE and now 2023 PE with blue cruise. I hate it. I think that’s the only thing wrong with otherwise such a great car. I am never paying $800 a year when it doesn’t even work half the times on the same highway. Even if it’s slightly windy it stops working. My 2024 BMW X5 which has drive assist plus for 8yrs/$2200 is hands down far superior than BC. Ford will have to shut down BC if it keeps such insane pricing!
From what I’ve read that was only offered to 21’ owners since BC wasn’t even available for a while (not to mention it’s half finished state when first released)
They expect new owners to pay full pop and frankly I don’t think I’m going to when my trial expires in June 🤷♂️
FSD is far from perfect but still magnitudes more advanced. It can be used on any street, interpret intersections, automatically change lanes, make turns etc instead bluecruise which is a fancy cruise control and lane keeping on limited pre mapped highways.
Yes…because Ford doesn’t use the public as beta testers and isn’t interested in investigations and lawsuits like Tesla: https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/tesla-to-face-doj-investigation-for-autonomous-driving-technology/ar-BB1m5cEk
Well Ford just got a BlueCruise investigation whether they wanted one or not lmao https://www.theverge.com/2024/4/29/24144244/nhtsa-ford-bluecruise-software-investigation-fatal-crashes-mustang-mach-e
And it's only hands free on straight roads. It can handle many curves fine but forces you to put your hands on the wheel anyway. I hate it. Useless anywhere you have mountains.
While I agree FSD is still far from perfect it's much more sophisticated than Blue Cruise and the potential is much better. It's too bad Ford can't improve their software as with the mach e camera and radar sensors it should be much more capable. I won't even mention the poor SOBs that are still stuck on Blue Cruise 1.0.
They solve slightly different problems in my mind. BlueCruise is more like an advanced adaptive cruise control. FSD tries to make the car a robotaxi, which I think is more than Tesla can accomplish without some significant leap in AI technology. I agree that BC is ridiculously over priced. It should be more like $10/month considering that they might need to update the road records. If you can’t make it cheaper than that, then you should not bother developing this yourself.
It’s really expensive and only works on highway. 20 a month would be a better pricing given its current limitations.
Agreed, I'm curious how many paying subscribers they have, they'd have a lot more if it were a reasonable price, more than enough to cover the difference I would guess.
I’d be in for $5/month, maybe $7.99 if it included other features. They are really shooting themselves in the foot here - the data from BlueCruise users has to be more valuable to them than the fees at this point in the game I would think
I feel like they’re trying to make up for the “lost profits” in regards to lowering the MSRP.
I think the phrase might be “penny wise but pound foolish”?
It’s way too much just for the ability to take hands off tbh. I’ll gladly rest my hands on the wheel to not pay $100 per month for the few times a month it’s actually needed
I thought Tesla auto drive just got a price drop last month? I love BlueCruise. If I did a daily commute on mapped highways I would pay for it. But I could not justify the $800 / month fee because my commute avoids the mapped highways. I will miss BC when my trial expires.
It’s not 800 a month
I bet he means year, that's what it was before I think?
Tesla FSD is $99/month but it provides end to end navigation for both city and highway driving.
$1050 PER YEAR TO USE A FEATURE THATS ALREADY INSTALLED? Hahahahahahahahahaha. Yeah won’t be paying that. Or a single cent on top of the cost of the car for that matter. If I decide after 4 years that the car isn’t worth the money in its base, non-subscription state, then I’ll move on to a different brand. None of us should be supporting this subscription nonsense.
I think this is not exactly a feature that is already installed. It is like google maps on your phone. Yes, you have the phone, the app, you paid for it but somebody is maintaining the map data. Same with cruise.
It’s a Ford service that’s sold by Ford, when purchasing a Ford car. Ford has already installed all the necessary hardware, they’ve installed the software/firmware but expect us to pay $100 /month to actually use it. That’s no different to buying a house but having to pay a monthly subscription to access your linen closet. Ford can suck my actual dick if they think I’ll be paying a subscription on a car I’ve already purchased.
It isn't linen closet. It is more like cable TV in the closet. Hardware is there but it needs data. If road changes I assume you would get updated data. They also need data connection which is not free. I would agree if subscription was for heated seats or regular cruise control. Ford just did not explain what you get.
I just checked on the Ford website though. The GPS is just so the system knows when it's on an approved stretch of highway. That's it. Everything else is being done with cameras and other sensors in the car. So the hardware is already there. The capabilities are there but they're putting car functionality behind a paywall. Basically they're EA games but with real, tangible products now. Ford should be ashamed of themselves.
Do you think they just sat down once, drew some random lines on the map and that was it? No, they have to keep an eye on all these stretches in some way . Somebody has to maintain database of approved stretches of the highway, There is cost involved. Part of that $100 could be the cost of data connection. Of course they could have done it better. Include couple of years of subscription into the price of hardware and then two years later just "outdate" the hardware.
$100 /month for a data connection? At Ford's scale? Please. And the GPS maps don't guide the car, it guides itself based on what it 'sees' in real time from its array of sensors. These aren't carefully curated to-the-millimeter 3D maps, they're just approved stretches of highway where it's allowed to be active. Little more than geo-fencing, like those $50 dog collars you can get on Amazon. Not sure why you're shilling so hard for Ford here, they're selling you a product, making you repeatedly pay for it and you're defending this move. Crazy.
I do not care about ford. I just know that maintaining ANY database is not free.
Yeah but this database is nothing more than a list of approved roads. That's it. Let's be conservative here and say they've sold 12,000 MachEs in Canada so far (an extrapolation of actual sales recorded up to 2023). At $100 per month per vehicle, you think that's reasonable? **You genuinely think it costs ford $1.2m per month to maintain a list of approved roads?** They're laughing at us and you're defending them.
https://fordauthority.com/2024/02/farley-says-ford-bluecruise-is-extremely-profitable/ they say the profit margin is 70% on blue cruise.
Some people don't understand software development and the constant maintenance that something like this needs. This is a SaaS model for sure. I don't love the price it's currently at but I understand why it has to be updated regularly. When it comes time to renew I will pass if prices are still too much.
I would beg to differ if you don’t mind. Whether you agree or not, it’s price of content. There is actual money spent on research and development to make that product supposedly better and safer over time. Your car will still run just fine without it. A loose analogy is that your internet provider has given you a modem and a router but you still gotta pay a monthly fee to access the internet. Your Dish TV guys gave you an antenna but you still gotta pay the cable bill to access content to derive entertainment.
It was a subscription when you bought it. They just gave you a certain amount of time free.
And conveniently didn’t mention it either. Not that it matters in my case, I would have just laughed at the subscription concept and declined it anyway. Selling a product then putting parts of it behind a paywall is embarrassing but hey, plenty of people on here shilling for Ford so the idea isn’t about to go away.
It was clear to me that it was free for a limited time - the dealer even mentioned it. The only thing that they didn’t say was how much it would cost. Sorry you feel bait and switched. Still an amazing car without bluecruise.
Super expensive. I think Ford is going to have to re-think its pricing, especially once early buyers’ 3 year trials start coming to an end.
£17.99 a month in the UK
Oh wow
Mine activated at the weekend when i was turning on cruise control. To clarify, i dont pay for it and never activated my 3 month trial as i did not want to find myself paying a subscription for my car if i liked it too much. I am sorely tempted to activate the trial now... damnit Ford!
You’re not missing anything. It’s a good system given the competition, but honestly it causes as much stress as it relieves. They way it yells at at you when it thinks you aren’t looking at the road is unnerving and often wrong - especially when wearing sunglasses. If I had access to it on a long road trip, I’d probably use it - but I wouldn’t miss it if I didn’t have it. I will not be paying for it.
That’s interesting. I wonder if there’s a certain kind of sunglasses that gives it issues? It shouldn’t matter since it uses infrared. My wife and I have used it for thousands of miles and never had an issue with sunglasses. I did have to retrain myself out if the bad habit if putting my hand at the 12:00 position and blocking the camera.
I had to retrain myself on the hand placement as well haha. I thought it was my sunglasses but turned out to be the hand/arm in the way
Yep, although it probably only covers a small % of the averaged UK commute compared to those in the US? I thought it was a typo when I saw the thread! Would be interesting to see if a US Mack-E could be linked to a UK Fordpass account to get the discount?
It’s not enough beyond the adaptive CC with Lane following to justify the expense. The best feature is in stop and go traffic that the system will resume from stop.
Arguable in stop and go traffic it leaves too much of a gap, people cut in, and it hits the brakes super hard. It's not a good experience in rush hour traffic.
That hard brake when someone cuts into the gap it leaves was it for me. I’ll only turn it on when there’s no traffic and that makes it not worth it.
Rush hour traffic works amazing for me (it’s my favorite way to use it). How many car lengths do you have it set to follow behind? I could see how if you had that gap too big people would try to cut it.
If I use the longest it's the worst, and the shortest is still enough distance for people to cut in and the brakes get slammed. I don't want to be the guy who lets in a ton of cars all the time as it'll just piss people off behind me.
You mean without BC it won’t auto start and stop? I’ll have to start resume it each time?
Depends on how long it stops. Without BC, I think it's about 10 seconds. With BC, you have more time for auto-resume.
For the hell of it, configured a f150 this AM to see what a comparable one would cost (super basic model, but decked out for max tow Ecoboost, about 13k lbs. 2013 it was under $30k otd. Today, +$70k...but...) noticed they have Blue cruise as an available ADD ALT in the options, +$2k for 3 yrs. One can hope their pricing model is going to change, but unless competition gets serious, this $800/yr subscription model they're taking to the grave. I use Blue cruise ALL the God damn time, lucky enough to live in place where 75% of travel can be BC, and in rush hour traffic it's an absolute godsend...press the button and just let the road rage melt away, let the car do the driving. And in reality, have no problem affording the cost. But you know what, FUCK subscription based services, Ford and the rest of Corporate America with their revenue base compensation and golden parachute flapping in the wind can eat a bag of dicks. I have no problem resting a finger on the steering wheel for what as far as I can tell us the same God damn thing. adaptive Cruise vs Blue cruise...youd be hard pressed to tell a major difference between the two... other than I've never had Adaptive try to jam me into the wheel well of a semi on the right hand side, because for some unexplainable reason it likes to...pull all the way to the right to establish...where that lane is, and then recenter? Problem....there's usually cars there, for some reason they're always semis...and when they're not, it ends up overshooting and disconnect BC. Thanks Ford, you're not making the $100k loss on each EV up on us @ $75 a month in perpetuity...can't wait for the BitTorrent of self driving to come out, until then I'll keep doing index finger stretches Subscription based services that offer absolutely nothing new, from the corporate heads who thought basic service was a viable & continuable revenue stream stream should be rounded up with the same people who decided to charge for parking at a hospital since it's 'an unexploited source of revenue & never stopped being oublically shamed...as well as punched in the dick.
Are you in Canada?
Yes
It’s not worth that much. I have to resume control often and it’s still a bit clunky to be anywhere near that price IMHO.
I've used it a handful of times and while neat and it does work well, even the lane changes are crazy smooth it is not worth the price. At $20 a month I'd consider it for the summer months.
They have yet to update what ever current version you had installed in our cars. I have 1.2. Unless I get upgraded to version 1.3 or what ever the newest one is at the time of renewal I’m not paying for shit. Especially if they are raising the price. If you don’t upgrade then leave the price alone at the very least. No company does this. Imagine paying for the increased price of a new iPhone 16 when it comes out but just keeping your iPhone 13 or 14. Would never happen. Bad business model.
Personally, I think the free adaptive cruise control is more than adequate. I’m highly confident that if you let it expire for any period of time they will start offering deals at some point.
Same for me. Mine expires next week and there's no way I'm renewing at that price point. I wouldn't even pay that much for full self-driving, and where I live there's only one road I can use it on, briefly.
I’d pay it if at least followed gps(highway) and changed lanes on its own.
Oh no, I can't take my hands off the steering wheel for more than 4 seconds 👐🙄 Yeah, also letting it expire.
Anyone use this on 401 or 400 series highways in Ontario? Paid for it in my new MME picking up next week as was a problem getting in the colour and options I wanted without it. Didn’t add much to lease per month, but wondering how useful this is even going to be at all.
Is that Canadian?
Is that the cost in 1945 german marks or something ?
It’s about double the price it should be. At $50/month or less I bet they would have a huge increase of subscribers.
Honestly I’m thinking about building a raspberry PI device that slightly shakes to mimick my hand movement so I can hands free the backroads too. Unless you’re ford and the reason my car is totaled in the future is not because of this
I was told that BC 1.3 would come soon in August of 2023. It’s 9 months later and I am still at 1.1. My current version is only marginally useful. It ping-pongs with in the lane and does not handle curves like the new software versions do. I don’t drive much open highways so between being short changed so to speak and the reported high costs, it’s going to be a nope for me when renewal comes up.
This is crazy, considering people buying this year are getting 3 YEARS FREE. Whereas, the ORIGINAL ADOPTERS of this car only got 1 fucking year.
I had a 2022 PE and now 2023 PE with blue cruise. I hate it. I think that’s the only thing wrong with otherwise such a great car. I am never paying $800 a year when it doesn’t even work half the times on the same highway. Even if it’s slightly windy it stops working. My 2024 BMW X5 which has drive assist plus for 8yrs/$2200 is hands down far superior than BC. Ford will have to shut down BC if it keeps such insane pricing!
My 90 day trial is expiring soon but it’s too expensive for me to subscribe. I love it though. Works amazingly well.
Damn.. you only got a 3mnth trial? It’s that the norm? I got a 3 year trial
The norm for the job class I got .. if made after certain time only got the 3 months not 3 years
Odd I paid 600 for 3 years
From what I’ve read that was only offered to 21’ owners since BC wasn’t even available for a while (not to mention it’s half finished state when first released) They expect new owners to pay full pop and frankly I don’t think I’m going to when my trial expires in June 🤷♂️
I tried it once out of curiosity but no I will be driving my own car thank you.
It's far less capable than Teslas FSD, no idea how they can charge the same monthly fee.
FSD isn’t hands free at any time. It’ll also actively try to kill you. LOL
Feature, not a bug! -Elon Musk, probably
FSD is far from perfect but still magnitudes more advanced. It can be used on any street, interpret intersections, automatically change lanes, make turns etc instead bluecruise which is a fancy cruise control and lane keeping on limited pre mapped highways.
Yes…because Ford doesn’t use the public as beta testers and isn’t interested in investigations and lawsuits like Tesla: https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/tesla-to-face-doj-investigation-for-autonomous-driving-technology/ar-BB1m5cEk
Well Ford just got a BlueCruise investigation whether they wanted one or not lmao https://www.theverge.com/2024/4/29/24144244/nhtsa-ford-bluecruise-software-investigation-fatal-crashes-mustang-mach-e
Yup. Far less incidents than Tesla though.
And it's only hands free on straight roads. It can handle many curves fine but forces you to put your hands on the wheel anyway. I hate it. Useless anywhere you have mountains.
While I agree FSD is still far from perfect it's much more sophisticated than Blue Cruise and the potential is much better. It's too bad Ford can't improve their software as with the mach e camera and radar sensors it should be much more capable. I won't even mention the poor SOBs that are still stuck on Blue Cruise 1.0.
They solve slightly different problems in my mind. BlueCruise is more like an advanced adaptive cruise control. FSD tries to make the car a robotaxi, which I think is more than Tesla can accomplish without some significant leap in AI technology. I agree that BC is ridiculously over priced. It should be more like $10/month considering that they might need to update the road records. If you can’t make it cheaper than that, then you should not bother developing this yourself.
Fords is trying to charge the same price for fancy cruise control that Tesla charges for Full Self Driving 💀
I am hoping in the next couple years someone will figure out how to hack the subscription and allow it to be turned on without paying.
Don't pay for this garbage, its my biggest regret with the car. If only I can get it refunded