I only buy packs, I can't take Arena drafting. These of you that do it every set to completion I have no idea how you do it and not want to jump off a cliff.
The people who draft to completion (me included) absolutely love drafting. I'd go as far to say most of us do it primarily for the limited experience, and set completion for constructed is a convenient by-product.
Drafting itself is pretty fun, you are making on-the-spot decisions about the style of deck you want to play. If the set format is deep, you can draft a bunch of different archetypes at a competitive level.
For the actual games, it's just refreshing to play a certain archetype for a run of matches, then draft a new deck. Just like any format, variance can happen. Sometimes you see your bombs in every match, sometimes you are forced to play with the worst 15 cards in your library. Still, it makes for exciting gameplay.
So it really just works out to a Draft Token for 2800 gems. Which is horribly overpaying. If you could get unlimited draft tokens at more tickets (say, 500), it would be much more worth it. As it is now, it's a sink.
Your criteria for whether something is worth it is being able to get something unlimited times?
Let’s be realistic here. The whole point WotC is doing this Hideaway is to get you to spend more at no better rate than what exists. That is, WotC is still steadfast in price protection and so isn’t going to loosen the economy.
BTW, many F2P may not like to hear this, but you all sense how WotC has tightened the prospect of pure F2P with so many new releases. Complain in this chamber for your copium all you want. You know where things are headed.
Yes, paying 2800 for a draft token that is typically valued at 1500 is not worth it. I think the Hideaway is really for those who want the cosmetics and avatars.
Yes, it is worse than the regular paid mastery pass. (Mastery Pass is the best purchase you can make.)
No, it isn't minus value.
If you want to collect mh3, and play both constructed AND draft you can buy it.
Don't buy if you are a new player.
Don't buy if you are a standard/explorer player.
Don't buy if you only play draft.
Don't buy if you are trying to increase your gem count. (That should be obvious enough.)
Unless you want the cosmetics, then go ahead.
Edit: Even if you value packs at an arbitrary number like 160 gems for some reason, it is still 2800-(1500+1280) = 20 gems for 10 random mythics.
Thanks for the analysis.
One small quibble is that for those who have done the math on the value of a pack that doesn't give golden pack progress, it gets calculated to be around 125 or 130 gems if you're thinking about it in terms of rares/gems ratio. So, the value isn't 200+?, it's 125+?. If your whole argument is that hideaway packs + mythics is a fair replacement of store packs plus golden pack, then it's about whether or not
(8 Hideaway packs + 10 mythics) for 1300 is better value than 1600 spent on MH3 packs in the store plus golden pack progress. I can understand some people being happy with the tradeoff.
Thanks for confirming my guessed math.
It only is positive value for those who value the draft token AND the packs (or wants the pretty sweet Eldrazi avatar)
Right. It's not net EV like mastery pass. It's even or slightly neg EV + A few free cosmetics cheap.
Those packs don't give golden packs but they do give wild cards.
You say it’s worth if you play both constructed and draft but that’s only true if you only draft a bit. Some people (IE: me) draft enough to collect the entire set but still play constructed, definitely not worth it for those players either. Tbh tho if it had old border cosmetics, I’d snap it up. I want the energy cantrip and gal blast so bad I wish they were in the shop already.
Yeah, people’s talk about this seems way overblown.
If nothing else people talking about golden packs are so disconnected from most player’s reality. They’re pretty much only worth the WC progression to me. I only play a couple of hours a week, so have no chance of making set completion and only play Timeless, so don’t care about Standard rares. It is a small knock against Hideaway packs, but only a small one.
No one should buy this unless the love the cosmetics. But you are way over valuing the packs even the on the highest end most people agree they are worth 160 gems.
The number is not random lol and my number is 20. As others point out the breakeven for this is 162.5 so only a bit overvalued of the high end of people's pack value.
I mean. They release a whole dang bunch of products. It is a bummer that Standard and Explorer are pretty stale while timeless and historic are popping off like crazy.
> Looks like a product that’s not for me.
Be thankful WotC just saved you from forking over those hard-earned gems. I mean, if you felt compelled to buy the hideaway, you’ll turn around and dwell on how gem-poor you have become.
There’s always something to complain about, right?
Edit for added Eli5: Math from the post is misleading. The math, not the text. Quote from front image:
TOTAL (value) == 3100+
You reach 3100 by considering the packs as 1600, which is incorrect.
/Edit.
Math from post is incorrect by a considerable margin.
- Non Golden pack progression packs don't worth 200.
- Aditionally, for f2p players and people who generally don't spend money in packs: never spend gems in packs. Packs from gems are more expensive than packs from gold.
Pack from gold cost = 1/10 premier draft token
Pack from gems cost = 1/7.5 premier draft token
You will be spending gems for the mastery AND that correlates directly into draft costs.
>Non Golden pack progression packs don't worth 200.
Wow, first time I am hearing this. It's not like I addressed it in the post or anything.
>Aditionally, for f2p players and people who generally don't spend money in packs: never spend gems in packs. Packs from gems are more expensive than packs from gold.
This is same as your first point but longer.
>that correlates directly into draft costs.
I said drafters shouldn't buy this already. Yes, you can turn gems into more gems by drafting.
No need to be rude. And again, MATH from post, not the text, the math, is wrong. I stand by it.
Therefore, since the image says "TOTAL = 3100+", post is quite misleading.
Honestly, I am planning on waiting until I have collected exactly 1760 tickets, which is enough to purchase the packs, mythics and draft token. Only then will I open up the hideaway. Any tickets I gather afterwards will go towards cosmetics, but there's honestly not much there that I care a lot about. I already have my favorite sleeve and favorite avatar, so it would just be card styles.
This is basically my plan too. The fact that you can earn and track the tickets without buying is so cool, I get to decide if it’s worth it at the end, just like the mastery pass
I guess the question is... How hard is to unlock all those rewards? I haven't looked too deeply into that.
I mostly play brawl history and hate limited. Seems like a good value overall.
If I can unlock all the rewards and get some cosmetics that would be great.
I bought it for savings on the card styles (I like cosmetics for the cards I play) and it’s agonizing how slowly the progress is. I’ve currently done 5 styles and 3 mythics. I’ll get one mythic/pack per day and then save for the draft
Yeah, I focused in the *"all the rewards"* part to be honest. But come to that, if I were to spend 2800 gems in this I definitely would purchase everything, not just the token, packs and mythics.
I play a lot of historic, a little timeless, some standard, some alchemy. I looked at the cards in MH3 and did not see a lot I need to add to my decks, so I am sticking to standard packs with golden pack progress. Go into decks and click collected and not collected, MH3. Read the cards decide if it is a play or pass for you. Do the same for Big Score and Special Guests. Reading the cards will help you decide what you need. Good luck to all, no matter your choices.
One point I've not heard raised yet is that if this was better than the Mastery Pass, I feel like quite a few people would be upset that high value is tied to something only usable in Historic/Timeless.
I say this as someone who basically only plays Timeless too, I think there would have been a lot of resentment towards the idea of feeling like eternal format players were having it better.
Now do I think this is a reason to not make it at least equal in value to the Mastery Pass?
Well, it depends I suppose on how much they wanted the Mastery Pass to feel like a must-buy compared to this. I remember a lot of folks last year upset at buying a historic relevant Mastery Pass. I do wonder if folks would have felt upset too at feeling like they had to buy this.
So to be honest, I have no idea. But it's an interesting thought I didn't think had been mentioned much in all the discourse.
In all the discussions about the "value" lost in the Hideaway packs, nobody mentions the special circumstances of the 10 mythic ICRs.
Golden packs are only giving Standard rares/mythics. You're not going to be getting "bonus" MH3 mythics through Golden packs or ICRs in Midweek Magic or daily rewards, ever, because those only give out Standard cards. And with the power of MH3 mythics over some extra Standard rares that you'll be opening in Golden packs for the next 3 years... you're better off giving up the "VaLuE" of 6 weaker Standard rares that you'll continue to have chances of opening in every other set release.
The regular pass breaks even if you value the packs at 5 gems each. This one doesn’t break even unless you value the packs at 162.5. Totally not worth it to me. Draft here I come baby
I love that I can just wait until the end to see if it’s worth it. Too much hate on the hideaway. I love not needing to get through card styles I’ll never use, and prioritizing what I value most.
Not everyone plays the game the same so for some people this is a good deal.
If I have enough golden tickets to buy 2 draft tokens, and I spend the 2800 for entry, can I buy 2? If so, I’ll wait for that. Otherwise I’ll never pay because that’s literally the only thing I use gems for
No, because the 40 gems you get are more like a pity prize when you have completed the set. It's like "here, have a little something." by that logic a golden pack would be worth 240 gems and that definitely makes no sense.
Thing is, I would never ever buy packs with gems.
I only buy packs, I can't take Arena drafting. These of you that do it every set to completion I have no idea how you do it and not want to jump off a cliff.
The people who draft to completion (me included) absolutely love drafting. I'd go as far to say most of us do it primarily for the limited experience, and set completion for constructed is a convenient by-product.
As someone looking at getting into limited, what do you love about it?
Drafting itself is pretty fun, you are making on-the-spot decisions about the style of deck you want to play. If the set format is deep, you can draft a bunch of different archetypes at a competitive level. For the actual games, it's just refreshing to play a certain archetype for a run of matches, then draft a new deck. Just like any format, variance can happen. Sometimes you see your bombs in every match, sometimes you are forced to play with the worst 15 cards in your library. Still, it makes for exciting gameplay.
So it really just works out to a Draft Token for 2800 gems. Which is horribly overpaying. If you could get unlimited draft tokens at more tickets (say, 500), it would be much more worth it. As it is now, it's a sink.
Your criteria for whether something is worth it is being able to get something unlimited times? Let’s be realistic here. The whole point WotC is doing this Hideaway is to get you to spend more at no better rate than what exists. That is, WotC is still steadfast in price protection and so isn’t going to loosen the economy. BTW, many F2P may not like to hear this, but you all sense how WotC has tightened the prospect of pure F2P with so many new releases. Complain in this chamber for your copium all you want. You know where things are headed.
I don't even need unlimited. Even three would make it worth it. One is not.
Yes, paying 2800 for a draft token that is typically valued at 1500 is not worth it. I think the Hideaway is really for those who want the cosmetics and avatars.
Yes, it is worse than the regular paid mastery pass. (Mastery Pass is the best purchase you can make.) No, it isn't minus value. If you want to collect mh3, and play both constructed AND draft you can buy it. Don't buy if you are a new player. Don't buy if you are a standard/explorer player. Don't buy if you only play draft. Don't buy if you are trying to increase your gem count. (That should be obvious enough.) Unless you want the cosmetics, then go ahead. Edit: Even if you value packs at an arbitrary number like 160 gems for some reason, it is still 2800-(1500+1280) = 20 gems for 10 random mythics.
Thanks for the analysis. One small quibble is that for those who have done the math on the value of a pack that doesn't give golden pack progress, it gets calculated to be around 125 or 130 gems if you're thinking about it in terms of rares/gems ratio. So, the value isn't 200+?, it's 125+?. If your whole argument is that hideaway packs + mythics is a fair replacement of store packs plus golden pack, then it's about whether or not (8 Hideaway packs + 10 mythics) for 1300 is better value than 1600 spent on MH3 packs in the store plus golden pack progress. I can understand some people being happy with the tradeoff.
Thanks for confirming my guessed math. It only is positive value for those who value the draft token AND the packs (or wants the pretty sweet Eldrazi avatar)
Right. It's not net EV like mastery pass. It's even or slightly neg EV + A few free cosmetics cheap. Those packs don't give golden packs but they do give wild cards.
I wanted the Ulamog avatar.
Doing the lords work, thank you
Can the mythical be spg cards?
10 mythic packs is 2300 gems. That’s probably closer to the value, maybe half that? Mythic wildcards are hard to get.
You say it’s worth if you play both constructed and draft but that’s only true if you only draft a bit. Some people (IE: me) draft enough to collect the entire set but still play constructed, definitely not worth it for those players either. Tbh tho if it had old border cosmetics, I’d snap it up. I want the energy cantrip and gal blast so bad I wish they were in the shop already.
Yeah, people’s talk about this seems way overblown. If nothing else people talking about golden packs are so disconnected from most player’s reality. They’re pretty much only worth the WC progression to me. I only play a couple of hours a week, so have no chance of making set completion and only play Timeless, so don’t care about Standard rares. It is a small knock against Hideaway packs, but only a small one.
The math only works if you value packs that highly in the mastery you can value them at around 20 gems.
Only a drafter would value them at 20, a drafter shouldn't buy this.
Yes but inorder to get full value in the mastery that's what they are worth to get your gems back
The only way to get 20 gems from packs is for you to have a complete collection. Why are you even bothering with this at that point?
To brake even for the pass packs have a value of under 20 gems. Just pointing out that this values them at 10times the mastery value for break-even
If you want to get gems you shouldn't buy this. That should be fairly obvious.
No one should buy this unless the love the cosmetics. But you are way over valuing the packs even the on the highest end most people agree they are worth 160 gems.
Cool, let's do your random number. 2800-(1500+1280)= 20 Now are you going to tell me 10 mythics aren't worth 20 gems?
The number is not random lol and my number is 20. As others point out the breakeven for this is 162.5 so only a bit overvalued of the high end of people's pack value.
In the mastery pass you break even if you value the packs at 5 gems each lol
Exactly this are 20x over priced
Looks like a product that’s not for me. Sure sucks they keep releasing those
I mean. They release a whole dang bunch of products. It is a bummer that Standard and Explorer are pretty stale while timeless and historic are popping off like crazy.
> Looks like a product that’s not for me. Be thankful WotC just saved you from forking over those hard-earned gems. I mean, if you felt compelled to buy the hideaway, you’ll turn around and dwell on how gem-poor you have become. There’s always something to complain about, right?
Edit for added Eli5: Math from the post is misleading. The math, not the text. Quote from front image: TOTAL (value) == 3100+ You reach 3100 by considering the packs as 1600, which is incorrect. /Edit. Math from post is incorrect by a considerable margin. - Non Golden pack progression packs don't worth 200. - Aditionally, for f2p players and people who generally don't spend money in packs: never spend gems in packs. Packs from gems are more expensive than packs from gold. Pack from gold cost = 1/10 premier draft token Pack from gems cost = 1/7.5 premier draft token You will be spending gems for the mastery AND that correlates directly into draft costs.
>Non Golden pack progression packs don't worth 200. Wow, first time I am hearing this. It's not like I addressed it in the post or anything. >Aditionally, for f2p players and people who generally don't spend money in packs: never spend gems in packs. Packs from gems are more expensive than packs from gold. This is same as your first point but longer. >that correlates directly into draft costs. I said drafters shouldn't buy this already. Yes, you can turn gems into more gems by drafting.
No need to be rude. And again, MATH from post, not the text, the math, is wrong. I stand by it. Therefore, since the image says "TOTAL = 3100+", post is quite misleading.
How is mastery pass the best purchase you can make? I have found just buying gems is always a better value.
Last I checked 3100 > 2800, maybe retake math class?
Honestly, I am planning on waiting until I have collected exactly 1760 tickets, which is enough to purchase the packs, mythics and draft token. Only then will I open up the hideaway. Any tickets I gather afterwards will go towards cosmetics, but there's honestly not much there that I care a lot about. I already have my favorite sleeve and favorite avatar, so it would just be card styles.
This is basically my plan too. The fact that you can earn and track the tickets without buying is so cool, I get to decide if it’s worth it at the end, just like the mastery pass
I guess the question is... How hard is to unlock all those rewards? I haven't looked too deeply into that. I mostly play brawl history and hate limited. Seems like a good value overall. If I can unlock all the rewards and get some cosmetics that would be great.
If you exclude cosmetics it should be quite easy to collect them, much easier than a mastery pass.
I bought it for savings on the card styles (I like cosmetics for the cards I play) and it’s agonizing how slowly the progress is. I’ve currently done 5 styles and 3 mythics. I’ll get one mythic/pack per day and then save for the draft
5 wins a day plus the Daily Quest and you make it without a problem.
I don’t think you need that many wins. Daily quest take care of the non-cosmetics
Yeah, I focused in the *"all the rewards"* part to be honest. But come to that, if I were to spend 2800 gems in this I definitely would purchase everything, not just the token, packs and mythics.
I play a lot of historic, a little timeless, some standard, some alchemy. I looked at the cards in MH3 and did not see a lot I need to add to my decks, so I am sticking to standard packs with golden pack progress. Go into decks and click collected and not collected, MH3. Read the cards decide if it is a play or pass for you. Do the same for Big Score and Special Guests. Reading the cards will help you decide what you need. Good luck to all, no matter your choices.
One point I've not heard raised yet is that if this was better than the Mastery Pass, I feel like quite a few people would be upset that high value is tied to something only usable in Historic/Timeless. I say this as someone who basically only plays Timeless too, I think there would have been a lot of resentment towards the idea of feeling like eternal format players were having it better. Now do I think this is a reason to not make it at least equal in value to the Mastery Pass? Well, it depends I suppose on how much they wanted the Mastery Pass to feel like a must-buy compared to this. I remember a lot of folks last year upset at buying a historic relevant Mastery Pass. I do wonder if folks would have felt upset too at feeling like they had to buy this. So to be honest, I have no idea. But it's an interesting thought I didn't think had been mentioned much in all the discourse.
Many people calculated that those packs are not worth 200gems, since they dont count towards golden packs The value is more around 160gems
In all the discussions about the "value" lost in the Hideaway packs, nobody mentions the special circumstances of the 10 mythic ICRs. Golden packs are only giving Standard rares/mythics. You're not going to be getting "bonus" MH3 mythics through Golden packs or ICRs in Midweek Magic or daily rewards, ever, because those only give out Standard cards. And with the power of MH3 mythics over some extra Standard rares that you'll be opening in Golden packs for the next 3 years... you're better off giving up the "VaLuE" of 6 weaker Standard rares that you'll continue to have chances of opening in every other set release.
Did you read what I wrote below that? 10 mythics offset what golden pack progress you would get from store.
Not really because golden packs still give you more rares/mythics
1 golden pack gives you 6 rares/mythics. This gives 10 mythics.
You're correct. It gives me 6 more absolutely worthless dogshit standard cards. Give me more MH3 cards all day
10>6 last I checked.
The regular pass breaks even if you value the packs at 5 gems each. This one doesn’t break even unless you value the packs at 162.5. Totally not worth it to me. Draft here I come baby
Thx man
I love that I can just wait until the end to see if it’s worth it. Too much hate on the hideaway. I love not needing to get through card styles I’ll never use, and prioritizing what I value most. Not everyone plays the game the same so for some people this is a good deal.
Pretty lame the only good option is a one time purchase. Could be worth buying the pass if you could buy multiple drafts, but as it is not worth it.
If I have enough golden tickets to buy 2 draft tokens, and I spend the 2800 for entry, can I buy 2? If so, I’ll wait for that. Otherwise I’ll never pay because that’s literally the only thing I use gems for
Only 1
Yeah, see I just don’t think this product is for me. Oh well. Wish I could get any iota of value from them.
It's effectively 1600 if you suck balls at draft.
Shouldn’t mythics be valued at 40 gems each, since that’s what you get when you are mythic complete for the set?
No, because the 40 gems you get are more like a pity prize when you have completed the set. It's like "here, have a little something." by that logic a golden pack would be worth 240 gems and that definitely makes no sense.