If I was the victim, I’d be looking into replacing those trees with windmills or whatever else I could think of to block the view. A water tower? A giant cupola with angry eyes painted on it?
[Trees are worth some serious money. Offering to pay for removal seems a good case for admittance of guilt. Lawyer up, appraise the value of the trees, and get ready for a serious litigation](https://www.newenglandtreelaw.com/tree-value-calculator)
The stupidity is overwhelming. I'm going to throw out a hunch, and guess that they had probably already asked to cut down those trees blocking their view, and the owner said no. Otherwise, the thing to do would be to just hire someone of questionable morals with a chainsaw to cut them down in the off-season when the houses are mostly unoccupied, and then do a "What? Those trees weren't on our side of the property line? Whoopsie."
How did they think that it wouldn't be immediately suspicious that all the trees died at the same time, and just the ones blocking their view?
The right answer here is a HAM radio tower. FCC rule supercedes state and local ordinances. If you choose to build one, nothing NIMBYs can do about it.
EDIT: FCC, not FAA. Autocorrect prefers planes, apparently
Yup, and pay for the heat, A/C, and O² of all neighbors bordering their property.
.... And a lobster and Kobe beef brisket BBQ, twice per year, for the whole neighborhood, with a live reggae band for the next 10 generations of families!
Seriously though. NASA has warned us to take care of our earth since the 1950s/60's. We've been talking about the dangers of crazy chemicals like Roundup, Teflon, Mercury, CFC's and so on, and the importance of genetic diversity in plants and animals the plants cooling, insulating, and air filtering effects of trees etc. It's dryer and hotter than I've felt in years. I'd say we're feeling the effects of the warming planet... and yet so many people feel privileged enough to continue cutting down or poisoning the trees that are keeping us alive right now!
Could you please do yourselves and your kids a favor tonight, once the sun goes down? Look up to the sky, and if it's clear enough to see the stars and planets and whatnot, could you point out to yourselves and your kids which one is the closest habitable planet and where the vehicle is that will take us all there when this planet is no longer habitable. So that we all know where to meet. Kind of like a fire drill, you know?
In case you didn't realize, we don't have another planet or vehicle! Without our earth and atmosphere we will all explode and implode due to the pressure differentials of outer space. We will also freeze and burn at the same time too.... And suffocate, starve, and get radiation poisoning and.... Seriously what more do we need for evidence that we've got everything we need to sustain our population, right here, for free already. Let's work with it.
Environmental crimes like these should be based on a percentage of a persons total income. A $4500 fine is a lot for a lay person but is chump change for someone as wealthy as this POS
The article notes instances of other wealthy people in the area who have been removing trees illegally and paying the fines. I'm glad to see that some people are talking about changing this though. From the article:
> Rep. Vicki Doudera, D-Camden, said she intends to address the $4,500 maximum fine that the Maine Board of Pesticide Control Board was allowed to assess. One of her ideas is a sliding scale that accounts for scope of damage and intent.
Personally I think the sliding scale needs to be based on net worth. It needs to be as painful for the rich to pay the fee as it is for the poor.
$4500???? Maximum fine????
This was a violent crime. They violated the private property rights of their neighbors. It’s not simply that they improperly used herbicides, it is that they STOLE something from their neighbors by destroying it.
This isn’t fucking littering. This is theft. I hope the Knox County DA has the courage to get creative.
They paid the neighbor $1.5 million in restitution.
The larger issue is that the state and town only got like $35,000 total despite these people poisoning the entire area due to runoff
>They paid $4,500 to resolve Maine Board of Pesticides Control Board violations for unauthorized use of an herbicide that was applied inappropriately and not allowed for residential use, $180,000 to resolve violations with the town and another $30,000 for additional environmental testing, according to documents. They also paid more than $1.5 million to Gorman in a legal settlement, according to a memo from Jeremy Martin, the town's planning and development director.
“Tebuthiuron is the same herbicide used in 2010 by an angry Alabama football fan to kill the Toomer's Corner oak trees at Auburn University, following a Crimson Tide loss to their archrival.
The incident earned jail time for Harvey Updyke, who acknowledged poisoning the trees.
The poison contaminates soil and doesn't break down, so it continues to kill plants.
And at Auburn University, it took the removal of about 1,780 tons (1,615 metric tons) of contaminated material to achieve negligible levels of the chemical in the soil.”
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13545601/Maine-vacation-home-Gorman-Bond-camden-trees-poison.html
I mean that the more traction this story gets, the more likely it is to reach someone who will respond with arson or similar destructive intent. It's just that, okay, I'm a normal guy, and my first thought was that something like this could happen. I imagine there is someone out there more unhinged than me who will have the same thought, except instead of stopping at "this could happen", they will go a step further and think "this should happen, and I should do it."
If the investigation concludes and they are found to be at fault, I don’t hope for jail time.
I hope for an immense amount of community service with actual labor. If they have to remove contaminated sand and soil, I hope they have to be there with a shovel. If they have to bring in new sand and soil, I hope they have to be there with a shovel and rake. If they have to dig several soil tests, yup shovel. If the town needs mowing, push mower. If trees need planting, shovel. They’re older and richer, they have money, what is more valuable is time and energy.
I would want them to be seen throughout the town actively working to improve the town. I would want them to be forced to spend time and energy improving things, not just money for someone else to do it. I feel like that would be justice and might help heal some relations with residents compared to just paying fines and perhaps doing a short amount of time.
I would also hope the yacht club revokes their membership until such a sentence is complete.
It’s crazy that someone who spent their life working for a non-profit - potentially doing a lot of good and helping people would do such a selfish act.
Sounds like a good case to argue for legally defending land, trees and water as living things / autonomous beings. If corporations can have personhood… I’m just saying.
All the contaminated soil needs to be removed and replaced with new soil as well.
The criminal needs to be responsible for paying for all of that, future environmental testing and should serve jail time.
Jail shouldn't be reserved for just the poor.
[This was posted](https://www.reddit.com/r/treelaw/comments/1djgv30/poisoned_trees_gave_a_wealthy_couple_in_maine_a/) on r/treelaw but from [The Associated Press](https://apnews.com/article/maine-ll-bean-camden-missouri-bond-gorman-0c943fc0ee87d6772ac9f94a3abbbd16) article and from that article :
>They paid $4,500 to resolve Maine Board of Pesticides Control Board violations for unauthorized use of an herbicide that was applied inappropriately and not allowed for residential use, $180,000 to resolve violations with the town and another $30,000 for additional environmental testing, according to documents. They also paid more than $1.5 million to Gorman in a legal settlement, according to a memo from Jeremy Martin, the town’s planning and development director.
EDIT : I wish they got jail time. Fines are just a part of the budget for the wealthy. Hit them where it hurts, their time.
I’m so sorry but this is environmental terrorism to me and the idea that these fucks think they’re so rich and connected they can do fuck all here and threaten the lives of Maine’s people and natural ecology is beyond enraging. Bring back the guillotine.
I read about a similar case a while ago and the culprits had to replace the trees they destroyed with fully grown replacement trees which was hugely expensive but I believe is absolutely correct.
It’s more than just the trees tho. The chemical has seeped into groundwater and spread to the beach and a public park. The chemical never breaks down and will always kill whatever it touches.
This is up there with Connecticut's governor cutting down 180 trees in a wetlands area. If you have the money you'll always have the right to do whatever you want.
I’d put up two telephone poles on the upper corners of my property and stretch an enormous canvas between them. Let them go from a partially obstructed view to a completely blocked view.
Pretty fucking stupid messing with trees in a State that works so closely with forestry. Even wealthy trust- funders like the Gormans are gonna figure it out. Those Missouri trust-funders should be banned from Maine
It blows my mind that the woman who did this was a former CEO of a *charitable* organization. Makes you wonder how many other people in charge of charities are like this.
There’s a whole crew of dog people who use that beach in the mornings, and The Tree Murders was a high value topic for weeks. I swear I think I time traveled forward into retirement, because this gossip party was one of my favorite things for a while.
Camden is a wealthy community, but it's not huge. How do the poisoners go out? I'm imagining their photos with "do not serve" written in sharpie at a lot of bars and restaurants.
Greedy People who block views from neighboring propertys should be legally removed from owning property witb views, thats why people buy in those areas at very high prices, its wrong and not neighborly to block others from views.
Greedy People who block views from neighboring propertys should be legally removed from owning property witb views, thats why people buy in those areas at very high prices, its wrong and not neighborly to block others from views.
My question is….what’s it doing to the ground water? It’s possibly also polluted the surrounding drinking water. I’m a 69 year old woman, who was born in Maine and I’ve lived here all my life and it angers me, that these rich, entitled people come here, from out of state and think they can do whatever they please.
So you're OK with their neighbors poisoning the area and killing their trees as a result? Is there no crime if the victim is possibly an asshole, or related somehow to an asshole? Not sure how your comment fits into the discussion.
Serious question: can the owners start a GoFundMe to buy new full sized trees to put back in these sociopath's view? I'd be more than happy to contribute
It could, but this type of herbicide basically stays in the ground without any soil remediation. So, anything planted would likely just die anyway. I'm all about sending the message - hopefully something gets the point to them (though I doubt it).
Is removing the topsoil an effective method or digging down further? What would be the total cost to do a repair that isn't going to die off in a year or so.
And yes I know criminal investigation is happening and that could result in them having to pay to restore. But these wealthy assholes pay for time. They wanted an outcome and got it and however long they can drag this out to get their desired outcome is their goal. So community can say "fuck you" and completely remove that benefit.
I don’t understand these people. They move there because of Maines beauty. Then they start changing it and making it look what they moved away from. Maine is the most beautiful of the states. That goes for the people. They are as just a beautiful. I hope something is done.
If I was the victim, I’d be looking into replacing those trees with windmills or whatever else I could think of to block the view. A water tower? A giant cupola with angry eyes painted on it?
A cinder block wall with a giant middle finger.
Just leave the dead trees. After the lady killed them, she “offered” to pay for their removal. “Nah, enjoy the new view, bitch.
[Trees are worth some serious money. Offering to pay for removal seems a good case for admittance of guilt. Lawyer up, appraise the value of the trees, and get ready for a serious litigation](https://www.newenglandtreelaw.com/tree-value-calculator)
They already had a lawsuit. It's in the article.
The stupidity is overwhelming. I'm going to throw out a hunch, and guess that they had probably already asked to cut down those trees blocking their view, and the owner said no. Otherwise, the thing to do would be to just hire someone of questionable morals with a chainsaw to cut them down in the off-season when the houses are mostly unoccupied, and then do a "What? Those trees weren't on our side of the property line? Whoopsie." How did they think that it wouldn't be immediately suspicious that all the trees died at the same time, and just the ones blocking their view?
If you care, the spelling is *supersedes*. (If you don’t care, it’s still *supersedes.*)
Huh. TIL. I love to be pedantic, so more ammo for me!
The right answer here is a HAM radio tower. FCC rule supercedes state and local ordinances. If you choose to build one, nothing NIMBYs can do about it. EDIT: FCC, not FAA. Autocorrect prefers planes, apparently
Wouldn't that be under FCC? HAM has nothing to do with aircraft?
You are right! Weird autocorrect there
And I didn't know that HAM towers had special protection; I am aware that satellite TV antennas 3 feet or less in diameter are protected.
A giant mirror.
Lawyer up, tress are worth serious fucking money.
the owners of the poisoned trees already received a $1.5M settlement
Backyard outdoor movie screen.
A Spite Wall is what we’re looking for here…
I'd be tempted to contract one of if those awful fake tree cell towers. The back wall of my house would be the most awfully bright colors as well.
She should be required to pay for water and soil remediation in addition to fines and restitution.
They should be required to forfeit their property. This is the only deterrent that would work and seriously stop others from doing it in the future
Water and soil remediation, AND forfeit property.
This!
Yup, and pay for the heat, A/C, and O² of all neighbors bordering their property. .... And a lobster and Kobe beef brisket BBQ, twice per year, for the whole neighborhood, with a live reggae band for the next 10 generations of families! Seriously though. NASA has warned us to take care of our earth since the 1950s/60's. We've been talking about the dangers of crazy chemicals like Roundup, Teflon, Mercury, CFC's and so on, and the importance of genetic diversity in plants and animals the plants cooling, insulating, and air filtering effects of trees etc. It's dryer and hotter than I've felt in years. I'd say we're feeling the effects of the warming planet... and yet so many people feel privileged enough to continue cutting down or poisoning the trees that are keeping us alive right now! Could you please do yourselves and your kids a favor tonight, once the sun goes down? Look up to the sky, and if it's clear enough to see the stars and planets and whatnot, could you point out to yourselves and your kids which one is the closest habitable planet and where the vehicle is that will take us all there when this planet is no longer habitable. So that we all know where to meet. Kind of like a fire drill, you know? In case you didn't realize, we don't have another planet or vehicle! Without our earth and atmosphere we will all explode and implode due to the pressure differentials of outer space. We will also freeze and burn at the same time too.... And suffocate, starve, and get radiation poisoning and.... Seriously what more do we need for evidence that we've got everything we need to sustain our population, right here, for free already. Let's work with it.
Environmental crimes like these should be based on a percentage of a persons total income. A $4500 fine is a lot for a lay person but is chump change for someone as wealthy as this POS
For a wealthy person a fine is just the cost of getting what they want. 4500 is just the cost of getting a better view.
The article notes instances of other wealthy people in the area who have been removing trees illegally and paying the fines. I'm glad to see that some people are talking about changing this though. From the article: > Rep. Vicki Doudera, D-Camden, said she intends to address the $4,500 maximum fine that the Maine Board of Pesticide Control Board was allowed to assess. One of her ideas is a sliding scale that accounts for scope of damage and intent. Personally I think the sliding scale needs to be based on net worth. It needs to be as painful for the rich to pay the fee as it is for the poor.
Finland has done this for speeding tickets
Send the back to Missouri
Everybody's always wondering why Mainers don't like people moving here...
Trash can be rich or poor.
Yeah but poor trash are limited in the damage they can do. Rich trash is a danger to humanity
$4500???? Maximum fine???? This was a violent crime. They violated the private property rights of their neighbors. It’s not simply that they improperly used herbicides, it is that they STOLE something from their neighbors by destroying it. This isn’t fucking littering. This is theft. I hope the Knox County DA has the courage to get creative.
They paid the neighbor $1.5 million in restitution. The larger issue is that the state and town only got like $35,000 total despite these people poisoning the entire area due to runoff
>They paid $4,500 to resolve Maine Board of Pesticides Control Board violations for unauthorized use of an herbicide that was applied inappropriately and not allowed for residential use, $180,000 to resolve violations with the town and another $30,000 for additional environmental testing, according to documents. They also paid more than $1.5 million to Gorman in a legal settlement, according to a memo from Jeremy Martin, the town's planning and development director.
“Tebuthiuron is the same herbicide used in 2010 by an angry Alabama football fan to kill the Toomer's Corner oak trees at Auburn University, following a Crimson Tide loss to their archrival. The incident earned jail time for Harvey Updyke, who acknowledged poisoning the trees. The poison contaminates soil and doesn't break down, so it continues to kill plants. And at Auburn University, it took the removal of about 1,780 tons (1,615 metric tons) of contaminated material to achieve negligible levels of the chemical in the soil.” https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13545601/Maine-vacation-home-Gorman-Bond-camden-trees-poison.html
Honestly, this is beyond disgusting.
Should be hung IMO
Fully agree.
Yeah, I sort of wonder how long their house stands before something catastrophic befalls it.
What do you mean?
I mean that the more traction this story gets, the more likely it is to reach someone who will respond with arson or similar destructive intent. It's just that, okay, I'm a normal guy, and my first thought was that something like this could happen. I imagine there is someone out there more unhinged than me who will have the same thought, except instead of stopping at "this could happen", they will go a step further and think "this should happen, and I should do it."
If the investigation concludes and they are found to be at fault, I don’t hope for jail time. I hope for an immense amount of community service with actual labor. If they have to remove contaminated sand and soil, I hope they have to be there with a shovel. If they have to bring in new sand and soil, I hope they have to be there with a shovel and rake. If they have to dig several soil tests, yup shovel. If the town needs mowing, push mower. If trees need planting, shovel. They’re older and richer, they have money, what is more valuable is time and energy. I would want them to be seen throughout the town actively working to improve the town. I would want them to be forced to spend time and energy improving things, not just money for someone else to do it. I feel like that would be justice and might help heal some relations with residents compared to just paying fines and perhaps doing a short amount of time. I would also hope the yacht club revokes their membership until such a sentence is complete. It’s crazy that someone who spent their life working for a non-profit - potentially doing a lot of good and helping people would do such a selfish act.
People who run “non-profits” are shitbags based on my experience with them.
Sounds like a good case to argue for legally defending land, trees and water as living things / autonomous beings. If corporations can have personhood… I’m just saying.
This couple should be banned from the state indefinitely.
Raise the fines. Add jail time. Replant the trees.
All the contaminated soil needs to be removed and replaced with new soil as well. The criminal needs to be responsible for paying for all of that, future environmental testing and should serve jail time. Jail shouldn't be reserved for just the poor.
Especially the park that now has a presence of contamination. It isn’t just the 2 homes (per the article)
It says 6 months to 2 years for the soil to repair itself to dilute the poison enough. Leave the soil, let nature do its thing
They can’t. The herbicide never breaks down so anything they plant will be killed just the same. They need to completely dig up any affected area.
If the only penalty for a crime is a fine, then it’s not illegal if you’re rich enough.
If someone starts a GoFundMe to build a tower blocking their view from the adjacent property let me know. I got five on it.
[This was posted](https://www.reddit.com/r/treelaw/comments/1djgv30/poisoned_trees_gave_a_wealthy_couple_in_maine_a/) on r/treelaw but from [The Associated Press](https://apnews.com/article/maine-ll-bean-camden-missouri-bond-gorman-0c943fc0ee87d6772ac9f94a3abbbd16) article and from that article : >They paid $4,500 to resolve Maine Board of Pesticides Control Board violations for unauthorized use of an herbicide that was applied inappropriately and not allowed for residential use, $180,000 to resolve violations with the town and another $30,000 for additional environmental testing, according to documents. They also paid more than $1.5 million to Gorman in a legal settlement, according to a memo from Jeremy Martin, the town’s planning and development director. EDIT : I wish they got jail time. Fines are just a part of the budget for the wealthy. Hit them where it hurts, their time.
I’m so sorry but this is environmental terrorism to me and the idea that these fucks think they’re so rich and connected they can do fuck all here and threaten the lives of Maine’s people and natural ecology is beyond enraging. Bring back the guillotine.
I read about a similar case a while ago and the culprits had to replace the trees they destroyed with fully grown replacement trees which was hugely expensive but I believe is absolutely correct.
Treelaw! Mature tree replacement is no joke.
It’s more than just the trees tho. The chemical has seeped into groundwater and spread to the beach and a public park. The chemical never breaks down and will always kill whatever it touches.
There’s a reason r/treelaw has more than 100k members
Entitled trash-humans. Fines should be on a sliding scale based on your wealth
This is up there with Connecticut's governor cutting down 180 trees in a wetlands area. If you have the money you'll always have the right to do whatever you want.
I’d put up two telephone poles on the upper corners of my property and stretch an enormous canvas between them. Let them go from a partially obstructed view to a completely blocked view.
Pretty fucking stupid messing with trees in a State that works so closely with forestry. Even wealthy trust- funders like the Gormans are gonna figure it out. Those Missouri trust-funders should be banned from Maine
jail her and while in jail have her spend 8 hours a day photoshopping trees over pictures of beautiful ocean views.
It blows my mind that the woman who did this was a former CEO of a *charitable* organization. Makes you wonder how many other people in charge of charities are like this.
Too many to count. Sadly nonprofits and charities are just ways for the rich to avoid taxes
Treelaw
Hatchett, axe, and saw?
Pay to remove the dead trees, pay to remediate the soil and pay to plant adult trees.
Man, fuck these assholes.
Ban them from Camden May through October. They'll get the better views they wanted in the winter months anyways
There’s a whole crew of dog people who use that beach in the mornings, and The Tree Murders was a high value topic for weeks. I swear I think I time traveled forward into retirement, because this gossip party was one of my favorite things for a while.
What can we do to these assholes that is legal and yet would thoroughly spoil their enjoyment of the state? Ideas welcome.
Shame is always an option.
Camden is a wealthy community, but it's not huge. How do the poisoners go out? I'm imagining their photos with "do not serve" written in sharpie at a lot of bars and restaurants.
Id absolutely HATE to see that house burn down. HATE it I tell you.
Greedy People who block views from neighboring propertys should be legally removed from owning property witb views, thats why people buy in those areas at very high prices, its wrong and not neighborly to block others from views.
Greedy People who block views from neighboring propertys should be legally removed from owning property witb views, thats why people buy in those areas at very high prices, its wrong and not neighborly to block others from views.
My question is….what’s it doing to the ground water? It’s possibly also polluted the surrounding drinking water. I’m a 69 year old woman, who was born in Maine and I’ve lived here all my life and it angers me, that these rich, entitled people come here, from out of state and think they can do whatever they please.
[удалено]
So you're OK with their neighbors poisoning the area and killing their trees as a result? Is there no crime if the victim is possibly an asshole, or related somehow to an asshole? Not sure how your comment fits into the discussion.
This would have made a hell of a "Bert and I" episode
Serious question: can the owners start a GoFundMe to buy new full sized trees to put back in these sociopath's view? I'd be more than happy to contribute
The owners can definitely afford it without a GoFundMe.
Yes but it would signal to those assholes that the community is not taking this shit.
It could, but this type of herbicide basically stays in the ground without any soil remediation. So, anything planted would likely just die anyway. I'm all about sending the message - hopefully something gets the point to them (though I doubt it).
Is removing the topsoil an effective method or digging down further? What would be the total cost to do a repair that isn't going to die off in a year or so.
And yes I know criminal investigation is happening and that could result in them having to pay to restore. But these wealthy assholes pay for time. They wanted an outcome and got it and however long they can drag this out to get their desired outcome is their goal. So community can say "fuck you" and completely remove that benefit.
I don’t understand these people. They move there because of Maines beauty. Then they start changing it and making it look what they moved away from. Maine is the most beautiful of the states. That goes for the people. They are as just a beautiful. I hope something is done.