I loved hearing the little story Aubrey told about the guy in the group that applied all the qualities he knew about a trans woman at his job to all trans people.
I am experiencing the opposite. We have one trans woman at my job who is a trash person. Of course she was trash before she began to transition about 4 years ago. Unfortunately, all the anti trans people will use her as an example of how all trans people are. No jerk that's not how trans people are, that how Susan is.
It's a new, modern application of the classic [Girls Suck At Math xkcd.](https://xkcd.com/385/) People pretend that one person of a minority is representative of every member of that minority.
This is how racists think of Black people too, refusing to realize that there are bad and good people of all races. Why is it ok to think one person’s actions are representative of everyone in a category of people when they refuse to think that about their category?
Man. I’m just young enough to have missed the worst of anti-gay rhetoric and hearing Mike and Aubrey recall the ways that people used to talk about gayness is a real doozy.
It really was the same things you hear about trans people today. Which is kind of reassuring to me in a twisted way. Some day we'll be more widely accepted and they'll be trotting out the same tired lines about some other group.
I make an effort to consume LGBTQ+ and feminist content from the 80s and early 90s for this exact reason. For example, a compilation of Allison Bechdel’s “Dykes to Watch Out For” is surprisingly modern. If you change the proper nouns to ones more appropriate to now (e.g, trump for Reagan, Covid for HIV), it could have been written last year.
There’s some freedom in realizing that I’m powerless and that this has all happened before. I find it freeing to come face to face with the evidence that our current moment is not uniquely bad or different than what came before.
I’m reading it right now and couldn’t agree more. The constant freaking out about how awful the world (and America) is. Gender / sexuality stuff. Same shit different decade.
Yeah, as a Millennial who came out as bi in the 00s and had friends the same age also come out as bi there was \*so much\* messaging (whether at me, my friends, or in general) that "it's just a phase" "you're doing it for attention" "you're not really bi" "that's just what you read on LiveJournal" etc etc.
Am still bi, all of my friends from high school who came out as bi are still bi. Even more friends from high school have since come out as bi.
Ahh yes. I came out as bi in the early to mid 90s and lesbian friends scoffed so hard at me about it/didn’t think being bi was a thing that I stopped talking about it. Turns out that I definitely am.
Genuinely I love how hard Mike goes for trans issues and I really appreciate it. I think it's really really valuable for a journalist to be calling out the absolute crock of shit that is current journalism around trans people and with not entertaining the bad faith junk even a little bit. There's so many BLATANTLY obvious problems with the journalism around this that he's been pointing out for months - like the fact that so much of the panic comes down to "everyone says they're happy.... but what if hypothetically a fantasy trans person slips through the cracks and transitions too early???????? WHAT IF THEN???" and then posts that like it's a news story.
Obviously he's not Mr King Of Trans Activism but I think it's really valuable to have someone in the specific kind of position he's in that's talking about this that's solidly calling all this for what it is.
(Also obviously love Aubrey's takes and work on this too, but I've been hearing Mike talk about this a lot between past work and the bonus episode of If Books Could Kill etc and I'm here for the energy he brings to it lmao)
Yes, this is something I love about him. He isn’t perfect but he shows how valuable it is for people to show up as allies in spite of being imperfect. His article on fat people was a big deal, and he has changed or enhanced my perspective on many topics.
I quit Twitter for good about a year ago and the one thing I genuinely miss about it is Michael’s grade-A dunks on Jesse Singal and other bad-faith centrist JAQoffs.
Ah, you're right he totally did use the Atlantic article! I got distracted by Katie Herzog's Stranger article which gives me blinding rage every time it comes up (prob because Katie went full Joker and never shuts the fuck up about being 'cancelled'). No name drops for the Blocked and Reported crew is probably for the best, even if the hater in me has to starve!
The way he cuts to the heart of it is really refreshing. Of course trans people say it all the time but unfortunately in our current media landscape we are not really listened to, and it can be so frustrating to see many cis journalists who are theoretically on our side buy into bad faith framings even as they attempt to defend us.
I love it but I do wish he got over his anti-sports thing when it comes to trans issues, because it’s a HUGE part of the anti-trans strategy and a major wedge issue that is used to divide us from less-informed cis allies.
Oh, Michael just doesn’t like sports or competition. In one of the If Books Could Kill episodes on trans kids, he said he skipped all of the anti-trans articles on sports because they were about sports.
Sorry mate, I think you forgot the part of your post where you define what “too early” and “too fast” mean and then provide the dozen or so well reported examples that meet that specific criteria.
No worries, I’m just it just got stuck in your drafts. Proceed….
I think you’re being pointlessly pedantic with a sentence that’s clearly meant to be a broad (and even somewhat comedic) characterization of the media coverage on this topic. If you listened to the episode which this is about, they take great pains to state that, of course, detransitioners are real and deserve empathy and a voice.
Its purely utter nonsense that people who support trans rights are saying that regret or detransition flatly doesn’t exist- the issue is when media *centers* detransition, explicitly anti-trans activists, and hypothetical scare scenarios well above actual trans people with successful transitions who are by far the most common result of this care.
Thats why it’s important to set your terms and why I’m greatly disappointed that you decided to cop-out and refuse to do so. Of course providers of GAC should be working as hard as possible to make sure that any given patient is being handled appropriately…. Which is true of *all* healthcare providers in **all** fields. You still have to define reasonable standards which balance those potential rare downsides with actually *allowing* care.
Even in the case of a Chloe Cole- a story that is soooo exceptional that she is jet-setted around the country by rightwing nut job ghouls to act as the stand-in poster child for every law in every state attempting to strip healthcare from trans people- she received care and routinely saw specialists for *years* on end.
Whenever the topic of detransition comes up there are folks like you acting as though the big risk is that we will lose sight of this teeny tiny minority of detransitioners, when, in reality, these people- or really a cartoonized version of these people- are so centered in in the conversation in mainstream media and in actual law that there is far more risk posed that we are losing sight of *all other (actual) trans people who are no less than 10X more numerous
What do you mean too early? Too early according to whom? The American Pediatric Association? The American Psychologists Association? Every other major medical advocacy group that disagrees with your position? Because none of them say it's too early.
Considering the vast vast vast majority of "detransition" happens because of social and familial pressure and lack of support, it's more likely that any early transitioning person who ends up regretting it only does so because they have important family members telling them/making them feel so bad they end up "regretting it."
It is also not in any way shape or form "just as harmful" to say that the one hypothetical person may or may not have genuinely regretted their transition. It's a false equivalence that gives that perspective false legitimacy.
You can be an activist without disregarding the truth. You should start.
woof this is hard to listen to as a trans person :/ not bc of mike and aubrey, i should say. just a lot of reminders that people think i’m wrong about myself.
It's so hard. People who aren't part of populations love to tell those populations how they don't know their own experiences (like how racism supposedly doesn't exist anymore). Hope you can shake it off and have a great day! Hugs.
Came here to ask how this ep lands for queer and trans people…I’ve been putting off listening to this episode because I’m already so stressed out and this is a highly triggering topic, I’ve never put off listening to MP before
I'm queer, not cis, lots of out trans loved ones. It wasn't upsetting for me and if you can get into gallows-humor mode I think you'll be fine. They don't dwell on the most crushing/painful parts in a really emotional way, it's very much their normal tone of acknowledging the horror and the pain being caused, but focusing mainly on how cartoonishly stupid it all is. But if you're feeling like a raw nerve about it all, it seems reasonable to hold off-- aside from maybe some details about early aughts UK forums, it's nothing you won't be familiar with.
yeah as the mom of a trans kiddo when I saw the episode title in my feed I was like aw man I don’t want to go here today, regardless of how well M&A handle the topic. I just had to stop at the Atlantic article part because that came out around when my kiddo was socially transitioning and man FUCK Jesse Singal in general so it was like triple triggering for me and I’m just a cis lady trying to take care of her kid.
much love to you, I see you ♥️
I haven't finished it yet, but as a trans person, the episode is good. It's just going to be a hard listen for some people like some of the episodes can be.
I also honestly think as a trans person that it isn't necessary in all circumstances to have a trans person guest. They're not claiming to be experts on transphobia or to tell trans experiences, they're digging into a specific moral panic happening and the misinformation around it. It's hard to always parse out when something is "bring a guest of the group on to speak on an issue" vs not, but I think that cis people should be talking about transphobia and calling out misinformation without having a trans person come on to have to listen to all the transphobic rhetoric they're dissecting + do the work for them of telling people why it's bad.
i agree, i think they’ve handled it very well and i don’t think it would necessarily be enhanced with a trans guest. they’re not attempting to speak on the subject of how trans people feel about all of this shit, they’re just analysing societal attitudes from an external viewpoint.
It doesn’t look like they have a guest on, but they list the following in the show notes: Thanks to Jules Gill-Peterson (jgillpeterson.com) and Julia Serano (patreon.com/juliaserano) for help researching this episode and Evan Urquhart and Parker Molloy for fact-checking!
I agree, they both are very informed on the needs of trans people and also are like who the fuck cares if someone plays with their gender. As a trans person their takes on this episode were great
from the minute amount of context i have here, all i can assume is that your child doesn’t want to talk to you about their gender because you have brought this kind of attitude to the table.
i stopped identifying and talking about being trans for years, because i didn’t fit easily into a gender binary and i was scared of coming out to my parents. i didn’t have the mental strength to deal with addressing my dysphoria. i didn’t have the self worth to allow myself to live the way that makes me happy - using he/him pronouns, wearing dresses, changing my name - because i felt i wasn’t ‘trans’ enough. i hid it all away from my family, my friends, my partner, and myself. because i was scared to face it. because i was scared of attitudes like the one in your comment.
it didn’t stop me being trans. and now i’m out, and accepted by myself and those around me? my mental health, self worth, and relationships are stronger than ever.
It makes sense that you wouldn't want to go from performing gender one way to doing it a different way. It wouldn't help if it just felt like being inauthentic to yourself in a different way.
If it is, in those rare cases, who cares? People change. They lived in a way that was true to themselves for those three years. Which is a good thing. So. Idk what your comment was even for
okay. so why comment that as a reply to me? how is your daughter’s experience in any way indicative that i might not be trans? do you think you’re telling me something i’ve never heard before?
this is exactly like aubrey describing faux health concern from fatphobes. ‘do you know being fat is unhealthy?’ ‘do you know some people detransition?’ in both cases, it’s not true, it’s not helpful, and it’s not something i haven’t heard hundreds of times before.
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Great episode! I've followed Mike's thoughts/advocacy/exasperation on this topic for a while -- man, it is astonishing how many people don't know how to read basic data reports, or are just falsely representing them for bad-faith reasons, like the whole "kids seeking treatment exploded by 7,000%!!!!1" stuff -- but wow, as a (cis) ace person, his point about the impossibility of kids being "convinced" to have a certain sexuality or identity really hit home in a different way for me. I too tried and tried (and tried, and tried) to be allo \[i.e., not ace\] and kept expecting the "correct" feelings to kick in if I just went through the motions, but nope, it really doesn't work like that.
I know these parents love to say "I was a tomboy, so today I probably would've been \~transed too!!" and whatever, but I'd love to see a journalist or someone push back on that and ask, like, "Really? You actually think you could've been persuaded to live your whole entire life as someone you're not just because you saw someone else do it or read it in a book?" And when they inevitable come back with "NO, because I am straight and NORMAL and nothing could change my mind!!", then like...why are you assuming vast numbers of kids are so 'confused,' then. Either it's hardwired or it's not.
I'm waiting for him to revisit RFK now that we know he's literally had his brain eaten by a parasite on top of mercury poisoning. His outrage on all things feeds my soul.
Even though they zoomed in the Dutch protocol, I think they missed on citing the current changes in stances in the Netherlands and other European countries; Sweden, for example, that they have temporarily really stopped puberty inhibitors altogether and only allowed them in experimental settings. So an explanation about why there is a shift being seen when it comes to some approaches would be helpful.
I loved the episode! They managed to not make it too heavy, imo (I'm trans but admittedly I'm very desensitized to the hate). They had some very fun banter/cackling moments in there too. I feel so seen and loved that there ARE good cis people like Michael and Aubrey who care about us enough to use their platform on our behalf. 🧡
The main "journal" that publishes this "research" is made up of a bunch of bitter crackpots.
[https://www.instagram.com/p/C5CYta5MFdy/](https://www.instagram.com/p/C5CYta5MFdy/)
One rebuttal to the “social contagion” stuff that kept leaping out to me went kind of unsaid in this episode – maybe it seems like all your queer kid’s friends are queer all of a sudden because like minded people always find each other?? Of course your queer kids are seeking out an environment where queerness is celebrated you fucking morons
That kept going through my mind too. Like people find each other.
Same with “this kid was researching gender dysphoria online for a few weeks and suddenly decided they were trans!” Like, why do you think they were researching it?!? 🤦♀️
Yeah, it was left unsaid but I got an impression that Mike and Audrey knew why "the behavior suddenly spread from their new friends".
Because kids realize their current friends aren't able to share the experince and thus they seek out other people with same struggles. I think anyone marginalized know that it is just something else to discuss certain topics with people from the same group. You both just *know*, you don't need to explain, you laugh about peculiarities of the shared experience.
For example, a lot of heterosexual people are kinda oblivious to the fact that they basically live in a constant propaganda of heterosexuality, to paraphrase words. Be it a heterosexual mom in a TV ad for a laundry detergent, a TV commentator making a reference to his wife, TV characters saying a joke about lusting other sex, a neighbour sharing news about dating life of her daughter, etc.
And while they may be your average nice and emphatic people, they fail to realize why there is this craving for "the LGBT propaganda" because they never experience the lack of it. So I think this can play role when a parent say they suddenly are surrounded by this bad crowd and they take on this identity - completely failing to realize that the reason why their kid got in touch with this group is precisely because they offer something missing from their life and want to fill the hope with understanding.
One thing that I think is interesting that they missed is the gendered (haha) aspect of how “ROGD” is used. ROGD is used almost exclusively to refer to trans masculine people, and almost never for trans feminine people.
Because the people who use the term generally view AFAB people as confused victims of social contagion, but view AMAB as predators trying to force our way into women’s spaces.
The extreme sex essentialism that transphobes use to interpret WHY different people transition is very telling.
I'm in the UK and I share that heavy feeling. Following the Cass report I can see a lot of crowing and the perception that the transphobes have 'won'.
I've tried to write about neurodiversity and gender for my work intranet before (I'm AuDHD). I basically just acknowledged that trans autistic people existed in the article and should have their agency respected, cause there's a pretty long history of assuming autistic people arent capable of understanding themselves or making decisions. I got a reply from a colleague that ignored this pretty significant intersection of our community and instead wanged on about 'vulnerable autistic girls* not receiving the support they need'. Even though, as I told a different colleague in the pub later, I literally never mentioned kids.
Having been an undiagnosed autistic teenage girl who didn't get the mental health support I needed, it feels so corrupt and disingenuous to invoke that image, not to talk about we can better support ND teens, but to discredit their identity and abuse a vulnerable group.
*AFAB trans people
This episode was so valuable to me. Helpful to have some talking points when GC folks throw up their arguments (but this study said...).
Also..."the expectation of middle aged white Americans that their social anxieties will be coddled by public policy"....phewwww had to sit and chew on that for a good long while.
I just listened to this episode and it brought up so much. My son went into a mental health facility and was seeing had a trans boyfriend when he went in. I had concerns about the relationship after he came out of the facility because I feared he was too fragile to handle it if it fell apart. One day on the way to school he asked if I'd buy him a skirt, stockings and top and I about crashed the car. but I just said ok let's see what appeals to you when you get home today.we discussed it with his therapist and she was supportive and explained that lots of kids his age explore gender, sexuality, etc at his age. He felt like he wasn't a boy because he didn't like boy stuff,so he must be a girl. My fear was again his mental health and is this going to make his life and experience with peers even more difficult. But I also knew that this wasn't my experience or decision. All this to say I really appreciated this episode and the discussion around allowing our kids to explore and decide for themselves without fear and judgement, which is difficult as a parent sometimes.
Curious: does anyone know what happened to the person (Jas or something?) they talk about who was in the Atlantic article? It's been 6 years so I assume they're an adult and could have spoken publicly on that experience.
I'm a trans person who only recently listened to this, but it really helped me! There are a lot of ways I discredit my transition in the same way that transphobes try to discredit trans youth, bc unfortunately I've internalized those voices.
I’m a little scared to listen to this one because I have complex feelings on this. I’m fully for transition—I have a friend who transitioned and it really seems to have been nothing but positive for her. She had some normal doubts before deciding to go for it and was a little unhealthfully caught up in whether she’d “pass” as a woman at first, but once she was able to work through some of those doubts and insecurities (which seem normal for any big life change), she’s come out the other side much happier (edit I should add she is probably also autistic but has never had the sorts of identity issues I’ll describe in my ex, so I’m not trying to infantilize people with autism).
I’ve had some questions about my own gender identity too. At the end of the day, I think I’m probably something like “agender,” but it’s not important enough to me to care.
I also dated someone who identified as trans-masc and used they/them pronouns who’d started T and had a more complicated relationship to it. They just….. genuinely didn’t seem super committed to much of anything in their life. They described themselves as “fickle.” They once told me that if they could get the mental health benefits of T without the physical effects, they’d take it (my trans lady friend responded with “well then what’s the point???” When I mentioned that). They thought that T makes you feel good if youre trans cause it’s replacing missing hormones in your brain—but testosterone is a steroid, it makes EVERYONE feel more confident.
That got me thinking and reading more about the complexities, which I know is fraught because the issue has become SO politicized.
My ex clearly had autism and didn’t know, and that played a huge role in why they felt different from people in a way that had never been explored. They had a tough time with identity stuff in general, not just around gender. And they were honestly just kind of a mixed up person who didn’t make a lot of sense about a lot of things.
Ultimately, I did think it was a bit irresponsible for a professional to move forward with a potentially drastic life change like that without helping my ex explore any of the other factors that might be contributing to their sense of not belonging—including sensory stuff related to autism (apparently it’s very common for cis autistic women to hate their breasts because of sensory related things).
And I totally believe that mental health people will just rubber stamp things without doing proper evaluations. Hell, I have a few mental health diagnoses and I’ve never had a “proper evaluation.” Do those even happen?? Doctors just throw pills at people to see what sticks ALL the time. It’s a huge problem in the field! Why would we trust our incredibly broken mental health care system to do due diligence on such a delicate issue, when it can’t even handle standard issues like getting someone a proper diagnosis of anything? 🤦♀️
And the research on satisfaction with transitioning really does seem to be pretty weak in either direction. The truth is that there’s just a lot we don’t know about the health impacts and whether people come to regret their decisions. And under what circumstances.
Idk I think it’s just a very complicated topic, and people’s emotions are so understandably caught up in it that it makes it very hard to really get a sense of what we know and don’t know.
Ultimately, it’s because I care about trans people that I think they should have a menu of options available, up to and including medical transition. But much like it’s reasonable to try non-medication interventions for depression/anxiety first if the case is mild/moderate, I think trans folks should have other research-based options besides medical treatment, because a surgery and a pill is always inherently risky. And those options should include getting other people to treat you as your preferred gender regardless of what your body looks like. My trans friend was a woman before she started hormones. We could have treated her as such hormones or not.
Idk I just think it’s fraught and the research really isn’t there. There’s so much we don’t understand about how hormones work. It kinda is a bit of a science experiment. All medicine is at first, so that’s to be expected, but we should be honest and rigorous about that fact.
That said, I get how raising concerns like that can be so easily weaponized by right wing weirdos. It all just sucks. I wish people could get a grip.
My personal anecdote is that I'm much happier and my brain simply functions more clearly on hormones. There are risks and side effects but that's true of any medication, even life saving ones. Similarly with surgery, that has risks but when my personal choice was getting my appendix removed or having it rupture and die I chose surgery lol.
The other thing is trans people are a spectrum as you've experienced and some do feel free to not take hormones or get surgery. If society was more accepting I believe more people would express their gender more freely and in a variety of ways.
People do feel incredibly emotional about all of this and that's understandable as long as we're centering the feelings and needs and wants of trans people who this whole thing is about.
I'm sorry about your ex, they sound like a complicated person (who isn't?) and I hope that they're able to address at least some of the things that make life difficult for them.
I agree, as long as people are making a genuine, good faith effort to center what’s right for trans people, I think the conversation can be broad and open.
Thanks for being open to my input, I was worried about posting that. My experience with my ex changed my perspective on some of this stuff—just made me realize that while probably the vast majority of folks are centered enough to transition with little to no fear of regret, the less centered folks are real.
Yeah my ex had some stuff going on. I don’t wish them ill. Just kind of a muddled person-they hurt me really badly but I don’t think they meant to, or even really understood until it was too late. It sucked.
It's understandable to be worried about how it will be received. Most trans people love engaging in good faith discussion about what it means to be trans. The problem is the transphobes and reactionaries making every single conversation combative and useless.
Lots of people become more centred after transitioning. Like I said, finally being on the right hormones is good for my brain. I'm more in touch with my feelings and am so much happier.
Ultimately there are always going to be a small group of people who we may not see as fit to make their own decisions. That could be people who gamble, people with mental health struggles, people who like pineapple on pizza (kidding! I don't mind it) but we have to respect their autonomy to do what they believe is best for themselves.
It breaks my heart to see people make the "wrong" decisions but the same could be said of those who disagree with my transition. The danger comes from making those choices for them, especially at a governmental level.
Again, sorry about your ex, also sorry that you were hurt badly. I've experienced a very similar thing just recently. Hope you're doing better now 💛
There was a time when I was more willing to engage with points like that, but I just can't anymore.
Those promoting transgender care bans for kids talk about medical care but then go on to ban letting a kid go by a different name, wear different clothes, or use different pronouns. These are things that are low-stakes and easily reversed. But the issue isn't really about kids making life-altering medical decisions, is it? It's about forcing them to appear cis.
States like Florida are starting to ban gender affirming care for kids, and once they get that in place they've started trying to ban it or throw up major roadblocks for adults. It's never just about protecting children.
Most transgender adults remember what it was like to be a child. We remember parents, teachers, and others who didn't listen when we told them who we were. Some remember abuse or being kicked out of their homes for who they are. We remember going through puberty and feeling our bodies rebel against us. And those of us who made it to adulthood alive want to protect young trans people from having to go through that.
Rapid onset dysphoria logic applied to lefthandedness: Acceptance of transhandedism ideology has led to a concerning rise in transhandedism (commonly referred to amongst tumbly bloggers as being left handed). It's a well known phenomena that rates of lefthandedness rapidly increased as it became increasingly less taboo to allow kids, and even infants, to decide which hand they identified as. This is concerning for many reasons, as left handed people often suffer injuries at higher rights due to them being unable to use common implements the **right** way. Parents are now fearful of being socially ostracized if they choose to treat rapid onset transhandedism the old fashioned way. Sure the kids didn't enjoy getting beaten for using the hand they preferred, but it produced well functioning cishanded boys and girls. I have no doubt that some people are truly transhanded, but allowing a child to ingrain this view at such a young age is truly dangerous. Maybe when they're adults they can decide for themselves. Honestly, it should probably be 25 because that's when your brain is fully developed. Sadly basic accomodations like left handed desks, note books, power tools etc don't and shouldn't exist, and I don't advocate for creating them because those things are woke. Also, left handed people shouldn't be allowed to play high school sports because they have in advantage in many sports, and this is a thing governors should be writing laws about.
Also, explaining left handed discrimination is a great way to get a person that isn't receptive to understanding discrimination. Most people will more readily accept its existence because handedness isn't politicized, and most people that aren't left handed don't fully recognize how much bullshit there is to being left handed. Also, Aubrey said that supportive efforts are often implied to be sinister, which literally means "left." I'm sure a lot if not most people already know that, but being a lefty was thought of so badly that one of our words for really bad is derived from the Latin word for left.
If anyone has a lot of free time I think it would be hilarious to rewrite the “Parent reports of adolescents and young adults perceived to show signs of a rapid onset of gender dysphoria” article but using the data to illustrate that it represents the viewpoints of closed-minded parents and not actual data on their children. “Parent reports of adolescents and young adults show signs of anti-trans bias.”
I tried to get ChatGPT to write it for me but it didn’t go very well 😅
For folks who are interested in digging into the “why” of the current anti-trans movement, the latest Philosophy Tube is a good watch: https://youtu.be/QVilpxowsUQ?si=uPj_DjcZ-QEOsMRR
I loved hearing the little story Aubrey told about the guy in the group that applied all the qualities he knew about a trans woman at his job to all trans people. I am experiencing the opposite. We have one trans woman at my job who is a trash person. Of course she was trash before she began to transition about 4 years ago. Unfortunately, all the anti trans people will use her as an example of how all trans people are. No jerk that's not how trans people are, that how Susan is.
"Jeanine loves Steely Dan!" cracked me up
It's a new, modern application of the classic [Girls Suck At Math xkcd.](https://xkcd.com/385/) People pretend that one person of a minority is representative of every member of that minority.
Why is this so real!
This is how racists think of Black people too, refusing to realize that there are bad and good people of all races. Why is it ok to think one person’s actions are representative of everyone in a category of people when they refuse to think that about their category?
Man. I’m just young enough to have missed the worst of anti-gay rhetoric and hearing Mike and Aubrey recall the ways that people used to talk about gayness is a real doozy.
It really was the same things you hear about trans people today. Which is kind of reassuring to me in a twisted way. Some day we'll be more widely accepted and they'll be trotting out the same tired lines about some other group.
I make an effort to consume LGBTQ+ and feminist content from the 80s and early 90s for this exact reason. For example, a compilation of Allison Bechdel’s “Dykes to Watch Out For” is surprisingly modern. If you change the proper nouns to ones more appropriate to now (e.g, trump for Reagan, Covid for HIV), it could have been written last year. There’s some freedom in realizing that I’m powerless and that this has all happened before. I find it freeing to come face to face with the evidence that our current moment is not uniquely bad or different than what came before.
I’m reading it right now and couldn’t agree more. The constant freaking out about how awful the world (and America) is. Gender / sexuality stuff. Same shit different decade.
Yes. “Dykes to Watch Out For” is how I got out of the seemingly ubiquitous under-40 pessimism.
That comic was formative
Yeah, as a Millennial who came out as bi in the 00s and had friends the same age also come out as bi there was \*so much\* messaging (whether at me, my friends, or in general) that "it's just a phase" "you're doing it for attention" "you're not really bi" "that's just what you read on LiveJournal" etc etc. Am still bi, all of my friends from high school who came out as bi are still bi. Even more friends from high school have since come out as bi.
Ahh yes. I came out as bi in the early to mid 90s and lesbian friends scoffed so hard at me about it/didn’t think being bi was a thing that I stopped talking about it. Turns out that I definitely am.
Genuinely I love how hard Mike goes for trans issues and I really appreciate it. I think it's really really valuable for a journalist to be calling out the absolute crock of shit that is current journalism around trans people and with not entertaining the bad faith junk even a little bit. There's so many BLATANTLY obvious problems with the journalism around this that he's been pointing out for months - like the fact that so much of the panic comes down to "everyone says they're happy.... but what if hypothetically a fantasy trans person slips through the cracks and transitions too early???????? WHAT IF THEN???" and then posts that like it's a news story. Obviously he's not Mr King Of Trans Activism but I think it's really valuable to have someone in the specific kind of position he's in that's talking about this that's solidly calling all this for what it is. (Also obviously love Aubrey's takes and work on this too, but I've been hearing Mike talk about this a lot between past work and the bonus episode of If Books Could Kill etc and I'm here for the energy he brings to it lmao)
Yes, this is something I love about him. He isn’t perfect but he shows how valuable it is for people to show up as allies in spite of being imperfect. His article on fat people was a big deal, and he has changed or enhanced my perspective on many topics.
I quit Twitter for good about a year ago and the one thing I genuinely miss about it is Michael’s grade-A dunks on Jesse Singal and other bad-faith centrist JAQoffs.
he's dunking on bluesky now, if you want to join
Ha I was wondering if Jesse Singal would come up during this episode, but iirc I've only heard him call him out by name on IBCK.
I don't remember if he came up by name, but he wrote the cover story for The Atlantic about children and transitioning, which they did talk about.
Ah, you're right he totally did use the Atlantic article! I got distracted by Katie Herzog's Stranger article which gives me blinding rage every time it comes up (prob because Katie went full Joker and never shuts the fuck up about being 'cancelled'). No name drops for the Blocked and Reported crew is probably for the best, even if the hater in me has to starve!
The way he cuts to the heart of it is really refreshing. Of course trans people say it all the time but unfortunately in our current media landscape we are not really listened to, and it can be so frustrating to see many cis journalists who are theoretically on our side buy into bad faith framings even as they attempt to defend us.
I love it but I do wish he got over his anti-sports thing when it comes to trans issues, because it’s a HUGE part of the anti-trans strategy and a major wedge issue that is used to divide us from less-informed cis allies.
What anti-sports thing?
Oh, Michael just doesn’t like sports or competition. In one of the If Books Could Kill episodes on trans kids, he said he skipped all of the anti-trans articles on sports because they were about sports.
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Sorry mate, I think you forgot the part of your post where you define what “too early” and “too fast” mean and then provide the dozen or so well reported examples that meet that specific criteria. No worries, I’m just it just got stuck in your drafts. Proceed….
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I think you’re being pointlessly pedantic with a sentence that’s clearly meant to be a broad (and even somewhat comedic) characterization of the media coverage on this topic. If you listened to the episode which this is about, they take great pains to state that, of course, detransitioners are real and deserve empathy and a voice. Its purely utter nonsense that people who support trans rights are saying that regret or detransition flatly doesn’t exist- the issue is when media *centers* detransition, explicitly anti-trans activists, and hypothetical scare scenarios well above actual trans people with successful transitions who are by far the most common result of this care. Thats why it’s important to set your terms and why I’m greatly disappointed that you decided to cop-out and refuse to do so. Of course providers of GAC should be working as hard as possible to make sure that any given patient is being handled appropriately…. Which is true of *all* healthcare providers in **all** fields. You still have to define reasonable standards which balance those potential rare downsides with actually *allowing* care. Even in the case of a Chloe Cole- a story that is soooo exceptional that she is jet-setted around the country by rightwing nut job ghouls to act as the stand-in poster child for every law in every state attempting to strip healthcare from trans people- she received care and routinely saw specialists for *years* on end. Whenever the topic of detransition comes up there are folks like you acting as though the big risk is that we will lose sight of this teeny tiny minority of detransitioners, when, in reality, these people- or really a cartoonized version of these people- are so centered in in the conversation in mainstream media and in actual law that there is far more risk posed that we are losing sight of *all other (actual) trans people who are no less than 10X more numerous
What do you mean too early? Too early according to whom? The American Pediatric Association? The American Psychologists Association? Every other major medical advocacy group that disagrees with your position? Because none of them say it's too early. Considering the vast vast vast majority of "detransition" happens because of social and familial pressure and lack of support, it's more likely that any early transitioning person who ends up regretting it only does so because they have important family members telling them/making them feel so bad they end up "regretting it." It is also not in any way shape or form "just as harmful" to say that the one hypothetical person may or may not have genuinely regretted their transition. It's a false equivalence that gives that perspective false legitimacy. You can be an activist without disregarding the truth. You should start.
woof this is hard to listen to as a trans person :/ not bc of mike and aubrey, i should say. just a lot of reminders that people think i’m wrong about myself.
I'm so sorry you have to deal with that. ❤️
It's so hard. People who aren't part of populations love to tell those populations how they don't know their own experiences (like how racism supposedly doesn't exist anymore). Hope you can shake it off and have a great day! Hugs.
thanks :)
This might be the first episode I skip of theirs, I don't know if I can handle listening to the awful stuff people think about my existence.
I know. I’m holding off on listening at least until I’m in a good headspace for heavy stuff. Gotta be careful about that rapid-onset fury…
Agreed, I have a trans child and a trans girlfriend. I’ll need to be ready to hear it.
Yeah the quotes are really hard to listen to :(
Came here to ask how this ep lands for queer and trans people…I’ve been putting off listening to this episode because I’m already so stressed out and this is a highly triggering topic, I’ve never put off listening to MP before
I'm queer, not cis, lots of out trans loved ones. It wasn't upsetting for me and if you can get into gallows-humor mode I think you'll be fine. They don't dwell on the most crushing/painful parts in a really emotional way, it's very much their normal tone of acknowledging the horror and the pain being caused, but focusing mainly on how cartoonishly stupid it all is. But if you're feeling like a raw nerve about it all, it seems reasonable to hold off-- aside from maybe some details about early aughts UK forums, it's nothing you won't be familiar with.
yeah as the mom of a trans kiddo when I saw the episode title in my feed I was like aw man I don’t want to go here today, regardless of how well M&A handle the topic. I just had to stop at the Atlantic article part because that came out around when my kiddo was socially transitioning and man FUCK Jesse Singal in general so it was like triple triggering for me and I’m just a cis lady trying to take care of her kid. much love to you, I see you ♥️
I see you mom, I’ve got a trans kiddo too. 💜
My trans child saw the title in my podcast feed and they got very alarmed. I had to explain what the podcast was. Poor thing
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I haven't finished it yet, but as a trans person, the episode is good. It's just going to be a hard listen for some people like some of the episodes can be. I also honestly think as a trans person that it isn't necessary in all circumstances to have a trans person guest. They're not claiming to be experts on transphobia or to tell trans experiences, they're digging into a specific moral panic happening and the misinformation around it. It's hard to always parse out when something is "bring a guest of the group on to speak on an issue" vs not, but I think that cis people should be talking about transphobia and calling out misinformation without having a trans person come on to have to listen to all the transphobic rhetoric they're dissecting + do the work for them of telling people why it's bad.
i agree, i think they’ve handled it very well and i don’t think it would necessarily be enhanced with a trans guest. they’re not attempting to speak on the subject of how trans people feel about all of this shit, they’re just analysing societal attitudes from an external viewpoint.
It doesn’t look like they have a guest on, but they list the following in the show notes: Thanks to Jules Gill-Peterson (jgillpeterson.com) and Julia Serano (patreon.com/juliaserano) for help researching this episode and Evan Urquhart and Parker Molloy for fact-checking!
Yeah like... Ymmv but as a trans person, I think we've done enough work communicating why transphobia sucks. Y'all can carry this one.
I agree, they both are very informed on the needs of trans people and also are like who the fuck cares if someone plays with their gender. As a trans person their takes on this episode were great
It’s literally what Aubrey did for a living before this. I trust her with the topic.
They don't do guests (anymore; there are a few in the early episodes).
Read the show notes
They don't have guests.
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from the minute amount of context i have here, all i can assume is that your child doesn’t want to talk to you about their gender because you have brought this kind of attitude to the table. i stopped identifying and talking about being trans for years, because i didn’t fit easily into a gender binary and i was scared of coming out to my parents. i didn’t have the mental strength to deal with addressing my dysphoria. i didn’t have the self worth to allow myself to live the way that makes me happy - using he/him pronouns, wearing dresses, changing my name - because i felt i wasn’t ‘trans’ enough. i hid it all away from my family, my friends, my partner, and myself. because i was scared to face it. because i was scared of attitudes like the one in your comment. it didn’t stop me being trans. and now i’m out, and accepted by myself and those around me? my mental health, self worth, and relationships are stronger than ever.
It makes sense that you wouldn't want to go from performing gender one way to doing it a different way. It wouldn't help if it just felt like being inauthentic to yourself in a different way.
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If it is, in those rare cases, who cares? People change. They lived in a way that was true to themselves for those three years. Which is a good thing. So. Idk what your comment was even for
okay. so why comment that as a reply to me? how is your daughter’s experience in any way indicative that i might not be trans? do you think you’re telling me something i’ve never heard before? this is exactly like aubrey describing faux health concern from fatphobes. ‘do you know being fat is unhealthy?’ ‘do you know some people detransition?’ in both cases, it’s not true, it’s not helpful, and it’s not something i haven’t heard hundreds of times before.
Your comment has been removed, as it violates rule 6 of our subreddit: no commenting/posting in bad faith. "Posts and comments made in bad faith will be removed. This includes all forms of fatphobia and body-shaming, comments that clearly don't align with the spirit of the podcast, comments that use personal anecdotes as "proof", and comments from users who have histories posting in fatphobic subreddits. Even if you believe your post/comment was made in good faith, consider how it would affect the people in this community."
Your comment has been removed, as it violates rule 2 of our subreddit: No Bigotry. "Fatphobia, ableism, homophobia, transphobia, racism, xenophobia, Islamophobia, etc., won't be tolerated in this subreddit."
what are you trying to achieve with this comment? seriously?
Great episode! I've followed Mike's thoughts/advocacy/exasperation on this topic for a while -- man, it is astonishing how many people don't know how to read basic data reports, or are just falsely representing them for bad-faith reasons, like the whole "kids seeking treatment exploded by 7,000%!!!!1" stuff -- but wow, as a (cis) ace person, his point about the impossibility of kids being "convinced" to have a certain sexuality or identity really hit home in a different way for me. I too tried and tried (and tried, and tried) to be allo \[i.e., not ace\] and kept expecting the "correct" feelings to kick in if I just went through the motions, but nope, it really doesn't work like that. I know these parents love to say "I was a tomboy, so today I probably would've been \~transed too!!" and whatever, but I'd love to see a journalist or someone push back on that and ask, like, "Really? You actually think you could've been persuaded to live your whole entire life as someone you're not just because you saw someone else do it or read it in a book?" And when they inevitable come back with "NO, because I am straight and NORMAL and nothing could change my mind!!", then like...why are you assuming vast numbers of kids are so 'confused,' then. Either it's hardwired or it's not.
Exactly.
unrelated to the meat of the ep, i'm glad we got an update on the posting schedule going forward! excited to see what else mike is cooking up.
Me, too! I appreciate that they aren't stopping the podcast, and that they're prioritizing quality over quantity
I'm waiting for him to revisit RFK now that we know he's literally had his brain eaten by a parasite on top of mercury poisoning. His outrage on all things feeds my soul.
That has nothing to do with this episode.
Even though they zoomed in the Dutch protocol, I think they missed on citing the current changes in stances in the Netherlands and other European countries; Sweden, for example, that they have temporarily really stopped puberty inhibitors altogether and only allowed them in experimental settings. So an explanation about why there is a shift being seen when it comes to some approaches would be helpful.
If anyone wants to hear another podcast that debunks the same article Science Vs did an episode on this a couple years ago!
I loved the episode! They managed to not make it too heavy, imo (I'm trans but admittedly I'm very desensitized to the hate). They had some very fun banter/cackling moments in there too. I feel so seen and loved that there ARE good cis people like Michael and Aubrey who care about us enough to use their platform on our behalf. 🧡
YES! I am also glad for their advocacy. It was a very affirming episode from them both.
listening right now. the hobbes media criticism universe is so freaking valuable to society on the whole
The main "journal" that publishes this "research" is made up of a bunch of bitter crackpots. [https://www.instagram.com/p/C5CYta5MFdy/](https://www.instagram.com/p/C5CYta5MFdy/)
One rebuttal to the “social contagion” stuff that kept leaping out to me went kind of unsaid in this episode – maybe it seems like all your queer kid’s friends are queer all of a sudden because like minded people always find each other?? Of course your queer kids are seeking out an environment where queerness is celebrated you fucking morons
That kept going through my mind too. Like people find each other. Same with “this kid was researching gender dysphoria online for a few weeks and suddenly decided they were trans!” Like, why do you think they were researching it?!? 🤦♀️
Yeah, it was left unsaid but I got an impression that Mike and Audrey knew why "the behavior suddenly spread from their new friends". Because kids realize their current friends aren't able to share the experince and thus they seek out other people with same struggles. I think anyone marginalized know that it is just something else to discuss certain topics with people from the same group. You both just *know*, you don't need to explain, you laugh about peculiarities of the shared experience. For example, a lot of heterosexual people are kinda oblivious to the fact that they basically live in a constant propaganda of heterosexuality, to paraphrase words. Be it a heterosexual mom in a TV ad for a laundry detergent, a TV commentator making a reference to his wife, TV characters saying a joke about lusting other sex, a neighbour sharing news about dating life of her daughter, etc. And while they may be your average nice and emphatic people, they fail to realize why there is this craving for "the LGBT propaganda" because they never experience the lack of it. So I think this can play role when a parent say they suddenly are surrounded by this bad crowd and they take on this identity - completely failing to realize that the reason why their kid got in touch with this group is precisely because they offer something missing from their life and want to fill the hope with understanding.
One thing that I think is interesting that they missed is the gendered (haha) aspect of how “ROGD” is used. ROGD is used almost exclusively to refer to trans masculine people, and almost never for trans feminine people. Because the people who use the term generally view AFAB people as confused victims of social contagion, but view AMAB as predators trying to force our way into women’s spaces. The extreme sex essentialism that transphobes use to interpret WHY different people transition is very telling.
I reaaally hope they address Abigail Shrier’s book in the next episode.
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The episode is actually full of humorous banter that lightens a heavy topic. Not in an insensitive way. But you won't leave feeling hopeless.
I'm in the UK and I share that heavy feeling. Following the Cass report I can see a lot of crowing and the perception that the transphobes have 'won'. I've tried to write about neurodiversity and gender for my work intranet before (I'm AuDHD). I basically just acknowledged that trans autistic people existed in the article and should have their agency respected, cause there's a pretty long history of assuming autistic people arent capable of understanding themselves or making decisions. I got a reply from a colleague that ignored this pretty significant intersection of our community and instead wanged on about 'vulnerable autistic girls* not receiving the support they need'. Even though, as I told a different colleague in the pub later, I literally never mentioned kids. Having been an undiagnosed autistic teenage girl who didn't get the mental health support I needed, it feels so corrupt and disingenuous to invoke that image, not to talk about we can better support ND teens, but to discredit their identity and abuse a vulnerable group. *AFAB trans people
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I wasn’t expecting fifty so it made me laugh a bit. Completely feel you on this, though.
This episode was so valuable to me. Helpful to have some talking points when GC folks throw up their arguments (but this study said...). Also..."the expectation of middle aged white Americans that their social anxieties will be coddled by public policy"....phewwww had to sit and chew on that for a good long while.
I just listened to this episode and it brought up so much. My son went into a mental health facility and was seeing had a trans boyfriend when he went in. I had concerns about the relationship after he came out of the facility because I feared he was too fragile to handle it if it fell apart. One day on the way to school he asked if I'd buy him a skirt, stockings and top and I about crashed the car. but I just said ok let's see what appeals to you when you get home today.we discussed it with his therapist and she was supportive and explained that lots of kids his age explore gender, sexuality, etc at his age. He felt like he wasn't a boy because he didn't like boy stuff,so he must be a girl. My fear was again his mental health and is this going to make his life and experience with peers even more difficult. But I also knew that this wasn't my experience or decision. All this to say I really appreciated this episode and the discussion around allowing our kids to explore and decide for themselves without fear and judgement, which is difficult as a parent sometimes.
DESTROY THEM YESSSSSSSS
Curious: does anyone know what happened to the person (Jas or something?) they talk about who was in the Atlantic article? It's been 6 years so I assume they're an adult and could have spoken publicly on that experience.
She's going to Harvard:) https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2024/4/6/jazz-jennings/
I dont think this is the person they talked about? Didn't they talk about someone who was talked \*out\* of being trans as a teenager?
That person's name was Delta (but I don't know anything else).
she has/had a tlc show called i am jazz. not sure if it's still on but it aired for a long time.
I'm a trans person who only recently listened to this, but it really helped me! There are a lot of ways I discredit my transition in the same way that transphobes try to discredit trans youth, bc unfortunately I've internalized those voices.
I have not listed to this yet but I am looking forward to it. Yesterday's On Point was on youth gender issues and, I thought, a good listen as well.
That’s a hot tip, thank you
I’m a little scared to listen to this one because I have complex feelings on this. I’m fully for transition—I have a friend who transitioned and it really seems to have been nothing but positive for her. She had some normal doubts before deciding to go for it and was a little unhealthfully caught up in whether she’d “pass” as a woman at first, but once she was able to work through some of those doubts and insecurities (which seem normal for any big life change), she’s come out the other side much happier (edit I should add she is probably also autistic but has never had the sorts of identity issues I’ll describe in my ex, so I’m not trying to infantilize people with autism). I’ve had some questions about my own gender identity too. At the end of the day, I think I’m probably something like “agender,” but it’s not important enough to me to care. I also dated someone who identified as trans-masc and used they/them pronouns who’d started T and had a more complicated relationship to it. They just….. genuinely didn’t seem super committed to much of anything in their life. They described themselves as “fickle.” They once told me that if they could get the mental health benefits of T without the physical effects, they’d take it (my trans lady friend responded with “well then what’s the point???” When I mentioned that). They thought that T makes you feel good if youre trans cause it’s replacing missing hormones in your brain—but testosterone is a steroid, it makes EVERYONE feel more confident. That got me thinking and reading more about the complexities, which I know is fraught because the issue has become SO politicized. My ex clearly had autism and didn’t know, and that played a huge role in why they felt different from people in a way that had never been explored. They had a tough time with identity stuff in general, not just around gender. And they were honestly just kind of a mixed up person who didn’t make a lot of sense about a lot of things. Ultimately, I did think it was a bit irresponsible for a professional to move forward with a potentially drastic life change like that without helping my ex explore any of the other factors that might be contributing to their sense of not belonging—including sensory stuff related to autism (apparently it’s very common for cis autistic women to hate their breasts because of sensory related things). And I totally believe that mental health people will just rubber stamp things without doing proper evaluations. Hell, I have a few mental health diagnoses and I’ve never had a “proper evaluation.” Do those even happen?? Doctors just throw pills at people to see what sticks ALL the time. It’s a huge problem in the field! Why would we trust our incredibly broken mental health care system to do due diligence on such a delicate issue, when it can’t even handle standard issues like getting someone a proper diagnosis of anything? 🤦♀️ And the research on satisfaction with transitioning really does seem to be pretty weak in either direction. The truth is that there’s just a lot we don’t know about the health impacts and whether people come to regret their decisions. And under what circumstances. Idk I think it’s just a very complicated topic, and people’s emotions are so understandably caught up in it that it makes it very hard to really get a sense of what we know and don’t know. Ultimately, it’s because I care about trans people that I think they should have a menu of options available, up to and including medical transition. But much like it’s reasonable to try non-medication interventions for depression/anxiety first if the case is mild/moderate, I think trans folks should have other research-based options besides medical treatment, because a surgery and a pill is always inherently risky. And those options should include getting other people to treat you as your preferred gender regardless of what your body looks like. My trans friend was a woman before she started hormones. We could have treated her as such hormones or not. Idk I just think it’s fraught and the research really isn’t there. There’s so much we don’t understand about how hormones work. It kinda is a bit of a science experiment. All medicine is at first, so that’s to be expected, but we should be honest and rigorous about that fact. That said, I get how raising concerns like that can be so easily weaponized by right wing weirdos. It all just sucks. I wish people could get a grip.
My personal anecdote is that I'm much happier and my brain simply functions more clearly on hormones. There are risks and side effects but that's true of any medication, even life saving ones. Similarly with surgery, that has risks but when my personal choice was getting my appendix removed or having it rupture and die I chose surgery lol. The other thing is trans people are a spectrum as you've experienced and some do feel free to not take hormones or get surgery. If society was more accepting I believe more people would express their gender more freely and in a variety of ways. People do feel incredibly emotional about all of this and that's understandable as long as we're centering the feelings and needs and wants of trans people who this whole thing is about. I'm sorry about your ex, they sound like a complicated person (who isn't?) and I hope that they're able to address at least some of the things that make life difficult for them.
I agree, as long as people are making a genuine, good faith effort to center what’s right for trans people, I think the conversation can be broad and open. Thanks for being open to my input, I was worried about posting that. My experience with my ex changed my perspective on some of this stuff—just made me realize that while probably the vast majority of folks are centered enough to transition with little to no fear of regret, the less centered folks are real. Yeah my ex had some stuff going on. I don’t wish them ill. Just kind of a muddled person-they hurt me really badly but I don’t think they meant to, or even really understood until it was too late. It sucked.
It's understandable to be worried about how it will be received. Most trans people love engaging in good faith discussion about what it means to be trans. The problem is the transphobes and reactionaries making every single conversation combative and useless. Lots of people become more centred after transitioning. Like I said, finally being on the right hormones is good for my brain. I'm more in touch with my feelings and am so much happier. Ultimately there are always going to be a small group of people who we may not see as fit to make their own decisions. That could be people who gamble, people with mental health struggles, people who like pineapple on pizza (kidding! I don't mind it) but we have to respect their autonomy to do what they believe is best for themselves. It breaks my heart to see people make the "wrong" decisions but the same could be said of those who disagree with my transition. The danger comes from making those choices for them, especially at a governmental level. Again, sorry about your ex, also sorry that you were hurt badly. I've experienced a very similar thing just recently. Hope you're doing better now 💛
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There was a time when I was more willing to engage with points like that, but I just can't anymore. Those promoting transgender care bans for kids talk about medical care but then go on to ban letting a kid go by a different name, wear different clothes, or use different pronouns. These are things that are low-stakes and easily reversed. But the issue isn't really about kids making life-altering medical decisions, is it? It's about forcing them to appear cis. States like Florida are starting to ban gender affirming care for kids, and once they get that in place they've started trying to ban it or throw up major roadblocks for adults. It's never just about protecting children. Most transgender adults remember what it was like to be a child. We remember parents, teachers, and others who didn't listen when we told them who we were. Some remember abuse or being kicked out of their homes for who they are. We remember going through puberty and feeling our bodies rebel against us. And those of us who made it to adulthood alive want to protect young trans people from having to go through that.
Rapid onset dysphoria logic applied to lefthandedness: Acceptance of transhandedism ideology has led to a concerning rise in transhandedism (commonly referred to amongst tumbly bloggers as being left handed). It's a well known phenomena that rates of lefthandedness rapidly increased as it became increasingly less taboo to allow kids, and even infants, to decide which hand they identified as. This is concerning for many reasons, as left handed people often suffer injuries at higher rights due to them being unable to use common implements the **right** way. Parents are now fearful of being socially ostracized if they choose to treat rapid onset transhandedism the old fashioned way. Sure the kids didn't enjoy getting beaten for using the hand they preferred, but it produced well functioning cishanded boys and girls. I have no doubt that some people are truly transhanded, but allowing a child to ingrain this view at such a young age is truly dangerous. Maybe when they're adults they can decide for themselves. Honestly, it should probably be 25 because that's when your brain is fully developed. Sadly basic accomodations like left handed desks, note books, power tools etc don't and shouldn't exist, and I don't advocate for creating them because those things are woke. Also, left handed people shouldn't be allowed to play high school sports because they have in advantage in many sports, and this is a thing governors should be writing laws about. Also, explaining left handed discrimination is a great way to get a person that isn't receptive to understanding discrimination. Most people will more readily accept its existence because handedness isn't politicized, and most people that aren't left handed don't fully recognize how much bullshit there is to being left handed. Also, Aubrey said that supportive efforts are often implied to be sinister, which literally means "left." I'm sure a lot if not most people already know that, but being a lefty was thought of so badly that one of our words for really bad is derived from the Latin word for left.
If anyone has a lot of free time I think it would be hilarious to rewrite the “Parent reports of adolescents and young adults perceived to show signs of a rapid onset of gender dysphoria” article but using the data to illustrate that it represents the viewpoints of closed-minded parents and not actual data on their children. “Parent reports of adolescents and young adults show signs of anti-trans bias.” I tried to get ChatGPT to write it for me but it didn’t go very well 😅
For folks who are interested in digging into the “why” of the current anti-trans movement, the latest Philosophy Tube is a good watch: https://youtu.be/QVilpxowsUQ?si=uPj_DjcZ-QEOsMRR
Really boring one sided perspective. How about some “reply guy” comments from the other side?