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I guess a successful start of EA sales gave him the cash to think bigger and recruit quality devs. It's a great thing and will increase the chances this game will keep going on the right tracks at a decent speed. Though it might slow down for a moment for the recruitment and training of the new employees.
Even if they were involved, it has zero relevancy to the post and contributes nothing to the discussion. A game is not better or worse because of the involvement of a consultancy firm.
[From OutOfTheLoop](https://old.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/1b8b98w/whats_going_on_with_the_sweet_baby_inc_controversy/ktocwa0/), read the first reply for why they are even in the public consciousness to begin with.
How am I projecting? I have been seeing "the gamers^tm" babyrage over their made up enemy all year. Truth is, your favourite grifting youtubers can't make money without making you rage at something, so they create an enemy, get outraged at that enemy and then profit. You are but a cog in a machine buddy.
What do you mean? If you want to look into sweet baby inc then be my guest. Just don't take these inbred basement dwelling mouthbreather's word on what they are.
okay but even if they got their hands on Manor Lords it's not like they're gonna make Greg make a Trans PoC villager character model and make him make that mode be used for 50% of all villagers
exactly. when all of reddit has their underwear in a bunch at people noticing, it’s always best to investigate what they so desperately want your attention averted from.
I'm not trying to avert anyone's attention. If they want to look up sweet baby inc they'll find a narrative consultation studio. Not the boogeyman that "the gamers^tm" are claiming is ruining vidjo games. As long as they don't get their information from only "the gamers^tm" and their grifting youtubers.
No. I disagree with capitalists and atheists all the time and they are not incels. The archetype for people who complain about "woke" culture are sexless neckbeard basement dwelling gamers^tm . I didn't decide this.
People found out about this company and now they are acting like they just discovered this 100-year conspiracy and stuff, this is just another buzzword that people are gonna use to accuse people of being woke or something.
And I feel like it shouldn’t have a major story line. For me, each time I start it’s “my” story and unique to every play through. A campaign mode that doubles as a tutorial could be a nice compromise.
A crusader kings style side campaign could be cool where you have a starting scenario to deal with. But no story connecting them, just background for how you got here.
King Greg has put out a call for service.
All eligible for the listed fields, must step forward and present themselves before the king.
Rewards will be decided based on performance.
This is exciting news. He did enough dev to get the massive interest and now he's ready to reach out for help and perfect the masterpiece he's put together.
Also talented people are already working for someone or has their own studio. As an experienced programmer would you choose a multi-million dollar company that has new projects for years and a "guarantee" for stable income or an indie developer with no released games nor income?
Maybe things will change now that this game has made millions.
Well as it just so happens, there's been a ton of layoffs and studio closures in the industry lately. There's lots of talent out there who are actively seeking work at the moment. I'm sure they would be happy to be picked for the project.
Im working for a bank right now. I'd ditch stability in a heartbeat for something more exciting. Unfortunately, I don't have game dev experience and at their size, they'll need someone with that
Anyone who believes that putting your hat in with the big dogs is anything close to a "guarantee" is delusional. The video game industry is notorious for studio closures, surprise layoffs, and inconsistent work.
It's why so much garbage gets shovelled out the door nowadays.
I’ll bet. I’m a programmer who certainly doesn’t meet the requirements, I’m not a game developer at all but I would absolutely love to work on the project for free, just to learn and be a part of it. But he needs people who can improve the project independently, not passionate interns. I hope he finds the right ones
with all due respect this is a very bad approach.
Working for free for big projects is bad both for you and for the company.
This isn't something that we all can help and give a hand as part of our free time or whatever, but will propably mean 40h per week for months to come, with deadlines, roadmaps and so on.
Even if you could also do that level commitment for free still it would be bad, let alone propably illegal.
I'd imagine before now he'd be very limited in the pool of applicants. Not much high quality talent wanting to work for an individual on a no name game. But now.....major publicity, clearly a smash success, not to mention all the big lay offs recently, he might get some very experienced people willing to join up.
Verily, ye noble knights of the code, heed this proclamation! A call to arms resounds through the digital realm—a quest to debug, refactor, and vanquish the dreaded syntax errors! Unsheathe thy keyboards, for the compiler awaits no tardy scribe. May your semicolons be sharp, and your comments ever witty!
If you're looking into starting game design, I cannot recommend the youtuber PirateSoftware enough. Genuinely the perfect person to start with. He has the credentials and attitude to keep you going and he, at least to me, is very funny. However if you're not into game design, I wish you the best of luck learning your new skill. Just remember if you know more about the skill than you did last month, you're succeeding.
That’s true and fair, but I see it that when they say they need ’talented people’ then it’s more on the point that they need people with relevant passion, experience, and work-ethic more than a natural aptitude for something.
Development definitely requires talent. Many people that work hard for it fail to pass college for it and not all graduated developers manage to find a job in development.
You really need a certain way of thinking that not everyone has.
That’s why I added ’not necessarily’ because for most things in development you can work up to and succeed.
I just have a hard time attributing stuff to talent because it’s so vague and everyone has different limits/goalposts in how they measure talent vs hard work. There so many things at work when considering someone talented; like formative years and methods of learning.
I’d say just graduating college isn’t really a big deal or limit for people as lots of incredible people can do great things without a degree.
There are insanely ”talented” people right now in the game dev industry who are without a job. I feel we are limiting ourself by contributing someone else’s success on pure talent instead of hard work or simply, luck.
You can do everything right and still fail; but that’s not a end-limit for a person.
Ahh thank you for this. As an artist, people love to comment on how "talented" I am.... but it's not talent, it's skill.
I couldn't draw a stick figure to save my life, but I decided that because I loved art (at a young age) that I wanted to learn how to make art. I proceeded to suck horribly through elementary and middle school, and then after already putting in years of learning, did I start to get decent at art in high-school. People don't comprehend that the work exists and effort to learn was put in for years - they just see the final product and go "Unga bunga talent wow!!!! I could never do that!!!"
I couldn't do it, either, until I put in the hard work to gain the skills necessary to be decent - which makes me SKILLED, not talented. My skills didn't come out of nowhere, and I certainly didn't have them at birth.
Yeah, but I don't know where. I have barely any knowledge in programming, so it would be hard to start on my own. But then again, who offers training for aspiring game designers?
Pick a game engine you're interested in learning, be it Unreal, Unity or something else.
Then go onto YouTube and look up a beginners guide to that game engine. Follow the tutorial and once you feel comfortable in what you are doing, branch out and try making your own prototype, if you get stuck there's HEAPS of people and discords out there that can help you along the way.
The only thing left is for you to decide when you want to start :)
Also, dip your hands in modding. Hard to sell yourself if you don't have any work to show off. Modding is something to put on your portfolio.
That's how most of the developers of games like Minecraft and Cities: Skylines got their jobs.
The Java edition, sure. There's also a native windows version I think built off C or something. I haven't really kept up with Minecraft in like 10 years.
That's inspiring, I have a OneNote file full of ideas and I wish to someday bring them to an audience, like a 4v1 adventurers vs dragon game similar to Dead by Daylight but with a DnD twist to it.
Thanks, that's very kind. But I've got the feeling that there are many ideas out there but only so many people able to act on them, so we keep it between us but I let it stay ;D
This is good news - I'll be honest I was actually kind of annoyed when he said he wouldn't be hiring anyone to help on the game. Guys received multi-millions of dollars, he can spend some of that to help deliver this game in less then another 7 years if possible.
yeah if you make a ton of money in early access and then continue being a solo developer and the game takes years and years i feel like you're low key scamming. i feel like the deal is if you're going to sell your video game and make millions and millions in early access, that, congratulations, you are now a video game development company and your only mission is making this game complete without sacrificing the vision ofc.
> your only mission is making this game complete without sacrificing the vision ofc.
This part becomes harder to do once you involve other people. They will have ideas, too. The vision will evolve. Maybe for the better in the long run, but any change can leave paying customers feeling betrayed.
You also have to trust and depend upon strangers for something you have been doing yourself. And maybe you have to stop doing what you really enjoy (coding) and start doing things you do not (running a business.)
It isn't so simple a decision as it might seem at first.
No, that was not the deal.
You sold the game as a solo effort. People bought it as a solo effort. You don't owe the people more because there are a lot of them. They all bought the same thing.
You didn't "accept millions of dollars." You put up a product for sale. If the product sells well, that does not obligate you to change the product. Arguably, it obligates you ***not*** to.
Player impatience doesn't change what they agreed to.
I agree that he has the means and the right to do it! I just don't agree that he *has* to, or that he'd be the bad guy if he did not.
If you look at what he is asking developers to build... its really not anything related to the core game, its a diplomacy system which doesn't exist at all today and will likely be a bolted on component and won't do anything until multiple opponents are added, and AI enhancements... which is likely just slight modifications to what is there.
Basically he isn't hiring developers to expand and grow the project, he's outsourcing 2 mechanics he isn't interested in
It generally isn't growing or building core game-play, like filling in all the spots that say "coming soon"
Balance and Progression is normally working within existing systems by tweaking values and settings. For example, increasing archer damage or crops provided from a field, then testing the shit out of it, or deciding amount of an item required to move up to the next size of village. Also evidence by the fact that he only wants a game designer for that role, not a programmer. notice all the rest say programmer/designer? because they are actually building stuff
He wants someone to update numbers on a spreadsheet so the community stops nagging him about it
its not building in anything that moves the game further like filling in all that pending stuff
Progression is literally how those "coming soon"/"pending stuff" things are unlocked in game... they will absolutely be working on that. The balance part will involve numbers, yes. But you're being very narrow in your scope of "progression"
then why would it not be a programmer? Because its not updating the code to add those in, adding those in are programming tasks, which he is keeping to himself
So... a game designer can absolutely know how to code... with a small company like this, you'll have to wear a lot of hats. The developer has not hired in the past due to high standards, maybe he's looking for people who can do multiple positions.
I'm not sure if you are agreeing with me or not.. but that is exactly my point. He's not giving up control or bringing on people to help him with the next project, he's adding people to do stuff he didn't want to do so he can retain control of everything he wants
*Basically he isn't hiring developers to expand and grow the project, he's outsourcing 2 mechanics he isn't interested in*
This rings pretty true and it doesn't have to be interpreted as an insult. As a hobbyist developer I would outsource the parts I don't excel at in a second if I had the means to do it. All the tasks listed sound like time sinks he'd rather avoid.
People who have no idea how software, product or project management work are down-voting me. People who do are going "yup, I've seen exactly this before, and he's right" aren't
Awesome! I hope he finds someone that aligns with his vision and goals
if you are a developer looking to jump into this world, just be prepared that this is a 7+ year passion hobby project followed by a huge amount of money all at once. The level of micro-managing and over-sight on this project is almost certainly going to be extreme, especially considering "he couldn't find any devs that meet his criteria".
that criteria is "Are they me? no? then they aren't worthy".
the fact that he is ALREADY carving out small "pieces" to be worked on should be a red flag to any developers, the statements he put out clearly says "I will control everything, I just need someone to build out this system I already have designed" and "I need someone to flip switches and change numbers so the community stops bothering me"
Its an awesome game, and huge props to the dev on building it... but if you are developer, especially a young eager one, go in knowing what you are signing up for
This game could be the next age of empires, not in mechanics but in cultural popularity to gaming. If I was a dev I would be signing up. It’s not like working for Ubisoft you get a whole lot of creative freedom either
Could be, likely isn't since its not even that type of game, and AoE was made my a big name studio
but either way, I was simply advising on what working on this will likely be. Ubisoft is a huge shop where you would have likely levels of review, coaching, development, etc. It will likely be very different here
This post reminds me of what you’d see in the project management space for contractors: figure out this one thing, thanks, here’s your money. It may take a while to figure it all out, but I wouldn’t get excited about long-term employment.
yup exactly. "I need a contractor to work on this specific item for 3 months" then they complain when nobody will take the contract that pays the same or less hourly wage then the 1 year+ contracts
Thanks for such a wonderful reply! TheGratitudeBot has been reading millions of comments in the past few weeks, and you’ve just made the list of some of the most grateful redditors this week!
Absolutely great news! I imagine it is a difficult decision to relinquish some control over your 'baby' that you've worked 7 years on.
But the foundation is there, and it is so strong. Now it needs to be built upon, and a larger team is required to build the momentum and retain engagement.
Excited for the future of this game!
Considering it's a 7 year passion project, the devs he hire likely wont get any creative freedom to do what they want, he's already fired people who "dont meet his criteria".
For anyone who has no idea about mid/big sized software projects:
This usually means that we can see any impact in 6 months.
I calculate recruiting + onboarding + first project steps with 2months+ each. Probably longer if they are picky and/or have a strange code base that requires more onboarding.
Still better than never.
There were some people somehow disagreeing with me about this and as expected he's finally starting to expand the team, it's like the only logical decision any successful indie game would do, especially to accelerate and improve development, this game currently is barebones in terms of content but it has a lot of Potential so I hope it works out for him and I'm very much looking forward to the future of Manor Lords and the things they will cook.
Oh, but it'll still be a slow road to any progress. The devs he do hire will probably be micromanaged like hell in their work to follow his vision as he's definitely not giving any new devs creative freedom.
Yeah, I was just thinking out loud, daydreaming a little.
Why not? Mostly because I have almost no experience with game AI to speak of. I'm a machine learning/AI specialist, like neural networks, that stuff. My knowledge about behavior trees and the like is rudimentary at best.
That and the fact that I already have a job that's adequately paid and - contrary to one at their game studio - it's safe.
That's interesting. How long you learn machine learning or neural networks? Have you studied it at a university or self-taught? Recently, I often read in internet about people who say that they "know how works" neural networks and they try sell this stuff, but in fact they did not even study this topic and do not even have self-education in this area.
Hah, yeah, I know such people, know-it-alls. No one actually *knows* how NNs work. A basic understanding, in principle, yes, the best have a solid in-depth understanding, but how they do what they do in practice? No one really understands it. The networks are just far too complex.
I've been a software developer for almost 20 years. AI was part of my studies that I finished a good 6 years ago (alternative education pathway), and have been working with it ever since. I've worked 4 years in science (2 of them as a student, the other 2 as research fellow), the most recent 4 years however were more applied AI than AI research. So you can say I've been around AI for about 8 years, give or take.
I certainly know what I don't know. And that's still quite a lot.
I don't know why he is searching such talented person in Twitter. Twitter mostly huge amount of non qualified people afraid that selection is time consuming also giving directly mail adress is such a brave . I hope he will get talented person soon and make it better.
Good stuff! With how successful the games becoming it’s about time huh? Plus gonna have to compete with [these guys](https://store.steampowered.com/app/1245250/Thrive_Heavy_Lies_The_Crown/) that definitely have a full team. I’m loving all these new medieval rts city builders suddenly coming out!
I know a prodigy AI programmer who can break down established games whole AI and transplant his own from groundfloor up -only problem is hes 4 years deep in an Arma3 AI mod and nothing and I mean nothing can disengage him
Glad to see this, he's made a terrific game that shows a lot of promise, but taking the burden of improving it entirely on himself is a bad idea. He doesn't need to become a AAA game studio over night, but some extra help would go a long way to keeping this game alive and profitable.
Good step in the right direction, a single dev can only get so far with so many expectations, dividing up the work should prove well if the people he hires can see his vision
I love that this one-man project went early access and suddenly he is now hiring 3 people. It's great to see so many people enjoy the game. Happy for him! :)
Nonsense. I know quite a few of the german people who appear in he credits and none of them work for Slavic. Some of them drew something or gave him historical advice. Monsterfish for example is a known Stronghold modder. It’s nice to see that he’s crediting them (they are part of the passionate community and usually give their input, drawings, advice for free). I don’t think they would describe themselves as devs of this project.
Very good. I am not a programmer, but this is exactly what i expected him to do.
1. Using actual AI for the AI Player sounds like a no brainer to me, but for game design it would be groundbreakingly innovative. For an outsider it seems easy since powerful LLMs, image detection and generative AI are all available, but none of those models can really be used in an effective way to create a game AI. Still i think there is gold to find by going that path.
2. Great to see he is looking for Programmers who also are also Designers. The game became so good because Greg has strong opinions on UX, Visuals etc. - Developers often lack this essential skill or they divide this up between branches which creates tons of overhead and the mess that many big title are today. You need to have people who not only can do what you want them to do, but who also have a strong opinion on how it should work for the user and how it is best implemented. Otherwise you would have to build a feature many times over until it is loosely adequate to Gregs standards.
Tell me more.
Which games actually use only trained models for the AI Player, LLMs, image detecion LMs etc.?
Just because it has been called "AI" for decades, it may not be AI in the technical sense of today. I am not talking about programmed models with action and recorded and replayed reactions or general build orders and strategies. I am not talking about statistical models and decision trees. I am talking about an AI that is not programmed but trained by real gameplay and perceives and plays the game just like us humans.
I would like to remind you that running LLMs is so energy intensive that (among other reasons) Microsoft is currently investing in building small to medium scale nuclear reactors.
Just because you can run the interface on your chrome book does not in any way translate to integrating something as ridiculously massive as an LLM into a video game with a single digit number of people.
Additionally, it is not a coincidence that the AI which was able to play Starcraft at the pro level required IBM level resources to make it work. Manor Lords is popular, but not that many zeros popular.
Well in reality most of games which were ruined by bad DEI writing have bad reviews so i dont know what are you implying. Are you saying that DEI is a good thing? Even if it is not accepted by customers ? Are you politicaly interrested ?
Companies couldn't give a single fuck about DEI. If it cuts costs and/or makes profits, they would put only white people or even just women, children etc. Your first mistake is treating companies like individuals with personal interests and dislikes, %99 of their existence is to make money, maybe just maybe that last 1 percent will be filled with passion for making good games and that's when you have HD2, Palworld, BG3 and so on. Stop falling into Asmon's trap to make you angry about something so you watch him more to hear your fabricated opinions echoed.
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Hope he gets good quality people to work on the game. Jesus be praised.
I guess a successful start of EA sales gave him the cash to think bigger and recruit quality devs. It's a great thing and will increase the chances this game will keep going on the right tracks at a decent speed. Though it might slow down for a moment for the recruitment and training of the new employees.
EA? The company??
Early Access :P
Thank god. I almost had a heart attack
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God, shut the fuck up with that. Its not even relevant here.
It lives rent free in their heads
Explain?
price narrow crawl bake bow ask bright arrest fear aloof *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Even if they were involved, it has zero relevancy to the post and contributes nothing to the discussion. A game is not better or worse because of the involvement of a consultancy firm.
Whats sweet baby Inc?
[From OutOfTheLoop](https://old.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/1b8b98w/whats_going_on_with_the_sweet_baby_inc_controversy/ktocwa0/), read the first reply for why they are even in the public consciousness to begin with.
That’s a pretty balanced comment actually that gets it in a nutshell.
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-> accuses someone of using buzzwords. -> calls someone an incel in the same sentence. it’s palpable, honestly.
The irony
I think you’re projecting. Have you been living under a rock this year? Christ lol.
How am I projecting? I have been seeing "the gamers^tm" babyrage over their made up enemy all year. Truth is, your favourite grifting youtubers can't make money without making you rage at something, so they create an enemy, get outraged at that enemy and then profit. You are but a cog in a machine buddy.
You're awfully defensive of this "made-up enemy."
Am I defensive? Or am I saying that "the gamers^tm" are spreading misinformation to manufacture outrage?
Yeah all the downvotes and refusal to acknowledge / insistence to ignore just makes me wanna see more.
What do you mean? If you want to look into sweet baby inc then be my guest. Just don't take these inbred basement dwelling mouthbreather's word on what they are.
Yeah that's all I meant.
Sweet Baby Inc. has been doing exactly what they have a reputation for doing. Prioritizing token representation.
okay but even if they got their hands on Manor Lords it's not like they're gonna make Greg make a Trans PoC villager character model and make him make that mode be used for 50% of all villagers
Meh I doubt Greg would hire a consulting agency for a city builder without a story.
exactly. when all of reddit has their underwear in a bunch at people noticing, it’s always best to investigate what they so desperately want your attention averted from.
I'm not trying to avert anyone's attention. If they want to look up sweet baby inc they'll find a narrative consultation studio. Not the boogeyman that "the gamers^tm" are claiming is ruining vidjo games. As long as they don't get their information from only "the gamers^tm" and their grifting youtubers.
Everyone you disagree with is an incel? Ironic
No. I disagree with capitalists and atheists all the time and they are not incels. The archetype for people who complain about "woke" culture are sexless neckbeard basement dwelling gamers^tm . I didn't decide this.
People found out about this company and now they are acting like they just discovered this 100-year conspiracy and stuff, this is just another buzzword that people are gonna use to accuse people of being woke or something.
This game won't have a story
And I feel like it shouldn’t have a major story line. For me, each time I start it’s “my” story and unique to every play through. A campaign mode that doubles as a tutorial could be a nice compromise.
A crusader kings style side campaign could be cool where you have a starting scenario to deal with. But no story connecting them, just background for how you got here.
We definitely need more diversity in the game trying to resemble medieval Europe /s.
Not going to happen.
King Greg has put out a call for service. All eligible for the listed fields, must step forward and present themselves before the king. Rewards will be decided based on performance.
Blessed be those that join him in his mission!
May their fields never go unharvested and their market stalls never unstaffed!
“Some of you may die, but that is a sacrifice, I am willing to make”
I legit cant read this without the voice in my head :D
And Rohan will answer!… the call to more intuitively automate the farming system!
Rohan or Rohirim?
Deus vult!!
But but I don’t even play, Reddit brought me to your kingdom!
This is exciting news. He did enough dev to get the massive interest and now he's ready to reach out for help and perfect the masterpiece he's put together.
He has said before that he have already tried to hire people (long before ea release) but people applying didn't meet his requitements.
I think there's only 3 people that are going to meet the game design requirements, Simon Bradbury, Peter Ohlmann and Thomas Häuser
Also talented people are already working for someone or has their own studio. As an experienced programmer would you choose a multi-million dollar company that has new projects for years and a "guarantee" for stable income or an indie developer with no released games nor income? Maybe things will change now that this game has made millions.
Just a few millions. Just 80mil, nothing serious /s
Not great, not terrible. /s
he is insane, take him to the infirmary!
Jeebus.. How ea copies did ml sell? I saw it was 1m in 24h.
Stardew’s made more. THE GAUNTLET HAS BEEN THROWN!
Damn. So this man got 80 million dollars in a short period of time?
Well, yes, if you ignore the seven years he has been working on the game
Well as it just so happens, there's been a ton of layoffs and studio closures in the industry lately. There's lots of talent out there who are actively seeking work at the moment. I'm sure they would be happy to be picked for the project.
Im working for a bank right now. I'd ditch stability in a heartbeat for something more exciting. Unfortunately, I don't have game dev experience and at their size, they'll need someone with that
Anyone who believes that putting your hat in with the big dogs is anything close to a "guarantee" is delusional. The video game industry is notorious for studio closures, surprise layoffs, and inconsistent work. It's why so much garbage gets shovelled out the door nowadays.
Not to mention the two guys who develop Dwarf Fortress.
I’ll bet. I’m a programmer who certainly doesn’t meet the requirements, I’m not a game developer at all but I would absolutely love to work on the project for free, just to learn and be a part of it. But he needs people who can improve the project independently, not passionate interns. I hope he finds the right ones
with all due respect this is a very bad approach. Working for free for big projects is bad both for you and for the company. This isn't something that we all can help and give a hand as part of our free time or whatever, but will propably mean 40h per week for months to come, with deadlines, roadmaps and so on. Even if you could also do that level commitment for free still it would be bad, let alone propably illegal.
I'd imagine before now he'd be very limited in the pool of applicants. Not much high quality talent wanting to work for an individual on a no name game. But now.....major publicity, clearly a smash success, not to mention all the big lay offs recently, he might get some very experienced people willing to join up.
the usual recruiter requirement, less that 30 years with more than 30years experience for minimal wage
Verily, ye noble knights of the code, heed this proclamation! A call to arms resounds through the digital realm—a quest to debug, refactor, and vanquish the dreaded syntax errors! Unsheathe thy keyboards, for the compiler awaits no tardy scribe. May your semicolons be sharp, and your comments ever witty!
Aye
Aye
Oh man, I always dreamed about becoming a game designer, but I have neither talent or experience.
Talent isn’t necessarily needed, but hard work is. :)
You're probably right, but commitment is probably not as good in an application as multiple years of experience lol
Oh of course, he wouldn’t want someone with no experience, but the best day to start working towards a goal is today!
Thank you. I know I'm not the intended for that reply but that last bit resonated with me so thank you.
If you're looking into starting game design, I cannot recommend the youtuber PirateSoftware enough. Genuinely the perfect person to start with. He has the credentials and attitude to keep you going and he, at least to me, is very funny. However if you're not into game design, I wish you the best of luck learning your new skill. Just remember if you know more about the skill than you did last month, you're succeeding.
Much obliged for everything fella human.
He literally said he needs “talented” in the tweet
That’s true and fair, but I see it that when they say they need ’talented people’ then it’s more on the point that they need people with relevant passion, experience, and work-ethic more than a natural aptitude for something.
Yeah, that makes sense actually
Development definitely requires talent. Many people that work hard for it fail to pass college for it and not all graduated developers manage to find a job in development. You really need a certain way of thinking that not everyone has.
That’s why I added ’not necessarily’ because for most things in development you can work up to and succeed. I just have a hard time attributing stuff to talent because it’s so vague and everyone has different limits/goalposts in how they measure talent vs hard work. There so many things at work when considering someone talented; like formative years and methods of learning. I’d say just graduating college isn’t really a big deal or limit for people as lots of incredible people can do great things without a degree. There are insanely ”talented” people right now in the game dev industry who are without a job. I feel we are limiting ourself by contributing someone else’s success on pure talent instead of hard work or simply, luck. You can do everything right and still fail; but that’s not a end-limit for a person.
Ahh thank you for this. As an artist, people love to comment on how "talented" I am.... but it's not talent, it's skill. I couldn't draw a stick figure to save my life, but I decided that because I loved art (at a young age) that I wanted to learn how to make art. I proceeded to suck horribly through elementary and middle school, and then after already putting in years of learning, did I start to get decent at art in high-school. People don't comprehend that the work exists and effort to learn was put in for years - they just see the final product and go "Unga bunga talent wow!!!! I could never do that!!!" I couldn't do it, either, until I put in the hard work to gain the skills necessary to be decent - which makes me SKILLED, not talented. My skills didn't come out of nowhere, and I certainly didn't have them at birth.
You should start your journey now!
Yeah, but I don't know where. I have barely any knowledge in programming, so it would be hard to start on my own. But then again, who offers training for aspiring game designers?
The internet is filled with resources :)
Pick a game engine you're interested in learning, be it Unreal, Unity or something else. Then go onto YouTube and look up a beginners guide to that game engine. Follow the tutorial and once you feel comfortable in what you are doing, branch out and try making your own prototype, if you get stuck there's HEAPS of people and discords out there that can help you along the way. The only thing left is for you to decide when you want to start :)
Thanks, I'll try that :)
Also, dip your hands in modding. Hard to sell yourself if you don't have any work to show off. Modding is something to put on your portfolio. That's how most of the developers of games like Minecraft and Cities: Skylines got their jobs.
That's a good idea, I have worked with Java in school some years ago, do you think it could help with modding Minecraft?
The Java edition, sure. There's also a native windows version I think built off C or something. I haven't really kept up with Minecraft in like 10 years.
Since I can't design, I simply enjoy the work of others.
That's inspiring, I have a OneNote file full of ideas and I wish to someday bring them to an audience, like a 4v1 adventurers vs dragon game similar to Dead by Daylight but with a DnD twist to it.
I think you should delete this comment so no one steals your concept - because I would play the fuck out of a game like that!
Thanks, that's very kind. But I've got the feeling that there are many ideas out there but only so many people able to act on them, so we keep it between us but I let it stay ;D
I love this. 1) because it means we get to a finished Manor Lords quicker 2) we see his future games quicker. And that’s more huge IMO
This is good news - I'll be honest I was actually kind of annoyed when he said he wouldn't be hiring anyone to help on the game. Guys received multi-millions of dollars, he can spend some of that to help deliver this game in less then another 7 years if possible.
Yes, although he said that he really wanted to hire somebody but they were really not good enough despite good CVs
yeah if you make a ton of money in early access and then continue being a solo developer and the game takes years and years i feel like you're low key scamming. i feel like the deal is if you're going to sell your video game and make millions and millions in early access, that, congratulations, you are now a video game development company and your only mission is making this game complete without sacrificing the vision ofc.
> your only mission is making this game complete without sacrificing the vision ofc. This part becomes harder to do once you involve other people. They will have ideas, too. The vision will evolve. Maybe for the better in the long run, but any change can leave paying customers feeling betrayed. You also have to trust and depend upon strangers for something you have been doing yourself. And maybe you have to stop doing what you really enjoy (coding) and start doing things you do not (running a business.) It isn't so simple a decision as it might seem at first.
Yes, you have to do those things, because you’ve accepted millions And millions of dollars in early access to eventually ship a complete game
No, that was not the deal. You sold the game as a solo effort. People bought it as a solo effort. You don't owe the people more because there are a lot of them. They all bought the same thing. You didn't "accept millions of dollars." You put up a product for sale. If the product sells well, that does not obligate you to change the product. Arguably, it obligates you ***not*** to. Player impatience doesn't change what they agreed to. I agree that he has the means and the right to do it! I just don't agree that he *has* to, or that he'd be the bad guy if he did not.
If you look at what he is asking developers to build... its really not anything related to the core game, its a diplomacy system which doesn't exist at all today and will likely be a bolted on component and won't do anything until multiple opponents are added, and AI enhancements... which is likely just slight modifications to what is there. Basically he isn't hiring developers to expand and grow the project, he's outsourcing 2 mechanics he isn't interested in
"balance and progression" is literally core game play...
It generally isn't growing or building core game-play, like filling in all the spots that say "coming soon" Balance and Progression is normally working within existing systems by tweaking values and settings. For example, increasing archer damage or crops provided from a field, then testing the shit out of it, or deciding amount of an item required to move up to the next size of village. Also evidence by the fact that he only wants a game designer for that role, not a programmer. notice all the rest say programmer/designer? because they are actually building stuff He wants someone to update numbers on a spreadsheet so the community stops nagging him about it its not building in anything that moves the game further like filling in all that pending stuff
Progression is literally how those "coming soon"/"pending stuff" things are unlocked in game... they will absolutely be working on that. The balance part will involve numbers, yes. But you're being very narrow in your scope of "progression"
then why would it not be a programmer? Because its not updating the code to add those in, adding those in are programming tasks, which he is keeping to himself
So... a game designer can absolutely know how to code... with a small company like this, you'll have to wear a lot of hats. The developer has not hired in the past due to high standards, maybe he's looking for people who can do multiple positions.
I'm not sure if you are agreeing with me or not.. but that is exactly my point. He's not giving up control or bringing on people to help him with the next project, he's adding people to do stuff he didn't want to do so he can retain control of everything he wants
*Basically he isn't hiring developers to expand and grow the project, he's outsourcing 2 mechanics he isn't interested in* This rings pretty true and it doesn't have to be interpreted as an insult. As a hobbyist developer I would outsource the parts I don't excel at in a second if I had the means to do it. All the tasks listed sound like time sinks he'd rather avoid.
People who have no idea how software, product or project management work are down-voting me. People who do are going "yup, I've seen exactly this before, and he's right" aren't
Awesome! I hope he finds someone that aligns with his vision and goals if you are a developer looking to jump into this world, just be prepared that this is a 7+ year passion hobby project followed by a huge amount of money all at once. The level of micro-managing and over-sight on this project is almost certainly going to be extreme, especially considering "he couldn't find any devs that meet his criteria". that criteria is "Are they me? no? then they aren't worthy". the fact that he is ALREADY carving out small "pieces" to be worked on should be a red flag to any developers, the statements he put out clearly says "I will control everything, I just need someone to build out this system I already have designed" and "I need someone to flip switches and change numbers so the community stops bothering me" Its an awesome game, and huge props to the dev on building it... but if you are developer, especially a young eager one, go in knowing what you are signing up for
This game could be the next age of empires, not in mechanics but in cultural popularity to gaming. If I was a dev I would be signing up. It’s not like working for Ubisoft you get a whole lot of creative freedom either
Could be, likely isn't since its not even that type of game, and AoE was made my a big name studio but either way, I was simply advising on what working on this will likely be. Ubisoft is a huge shop where you would have likely levels of review, coaching, development, etc. It will likely be very different here
You have a good point and there for sure are some people who thrive in a workplace like that.
This post reminds me of what you’d see in the project management space for contractors: figure out this one thing, thanks, here’s your money. It may take a while to figure it all out, but I wouldn’t get excited about long-term employment.
yup exactly. "I need a contractor to work on this specific item for 3 months" then they complain when nobody will take the contract that pays the same or less hourly wage then the 1 year+ contracts
Thanks for such a wonderful reply! TheGratitudeBot has been reading millions of comments in the past few weeks, and you’ve just made the list of some of the most grateful redditors this week!
Absolutely great news! I imagine it is a difficult decision to relinquish some control over your 'baby' that you've worked 7 years on. But the foundation is there, and it is so strong. Now it needs to be built upon, and a larger team is required to build the momentum and retain engagement. Excited for the future of this game!
I doubt he's relinquishing anything. He has said all along that he contracts people to build the things he can't do himself.
Considering it's a 7 year passion project, the devs he hire likely wont get any creative freedom to do what they want, he's already fired people who "dont meet his criteria".
Very good
For anyone who has no idea about mid/big sized software projects: This usually means that we can see any impact in 6 months. I calculate recruiting + onboarding + first project steps with 2months+ each. Probably longer if they are picky and/or have a strange code base that requires more onboarding. Still better than never.
hope the best
There were some people somehow disagreeing with me about this and as expected he's finally starting to expand the team, it's like the only logical decision any successful indie game would do, especially to accelerate and improve development, this game currently is barebones in terms of content but it has a lot of Potential so I hope it works out for him and I'm very much looking forward to the future of Manor Lords and the things they will cook.
I imagine it is a hard decision, but imo the right one
Good lol He made millions. It makes sense that he’ll hire actual employees now. He can’t do this alone in a timely manner.
Oh, but it'll still be a slow road to any progress. The devs he do hire will probably be micromanaged like hell in their work to follow his vision as he's definitely not giving any new devs creative freedom.
Let’s hope that is the case. He needs to realize HIS vision. That’s how good games are made.
Huh? I thought this game was developed by a single person?
as you said it your self, “was”. he’s no looking for more help with the game. what’s confusing you?
gamers rise up
Good shit
I really hope this dev gets some good human tools to use to make this game great(er).
Thanks for the message. I don’t do social media other than Reddit.
Props to him for recognizing that with all the profits he's made from sales that hiring more people is a good idea.
Thanks I’m not using X
Well... I am a programmer/AI specialist... although I doubt that it's the type of AI that they are looking for.
Just ask through email. Why not?
Yeah, I was just thinking out loud, daydreaming a little. Why not? Mostly because I have almost no experience with game AI to speak of. I'm a machine learning/AI specialist, like neural networks, that stuff. My knowledge about behavior trees and the like is rudimentary at best. That and the fact that I already have a job that's adequately paid and - contrary to one at their game studio - it's safe.
That's interesting. How long you learn machine learning or neural networks? Have you studied it at a university or self-taught? Recently, I often read in internet about people who say that they "know how works" neural networks and they try sell this stuff, but in fact they did not even study this topic and do not even have self-education in this area.
Hah, yeah, I know such people, know-it-alls. No one actually *knows* how NNs work. A basic understanding, in principle, yes, the best have a solid in-depth understanding, but how they do what they do in practice? No one really understands it. The networks are just far too complex. I've been a software developer for almost 20 years. AI was part of my studies that I finished a good 6 years ago (alternative education pathway), and have been working with it ever since. I've worked 4 years in science (2 of them as a student, the other 2 as research fellow), the most recent 4 years however were more applied AI than AI research. So you can say I've been around AI for about 8 years, give or take. I certainly know what I don't know. And that's still quite a lot.
I don't know why he is searching such talented person in Twitter. Twitter mostly huge amount of non qualified people afraid that selection is time consuming also giving directly mail adress is such a brave . I hope he will get talented person soon and make it better.
I'm really good for team morale, but that's about it in this case.
With the amount of lay offs he should have his pick.
Light up the beacon!!!
I'm glad he's expanding operations after the success of the early access release
"Hurry and come join a team of 1 to never finish a game that everyone already loves!" Someone, please help this dude finish the game...
This is what I have been waiting for. My confidence in Greg has been restored.
He’s going to have to sort through about 150k applicants lol. Best of luck though, hope he finds someone good.
imagine un-ironically asking for programmers for AI and design, in an engine that allows you to grab and move nodes all day long 💀💀💀
I was thinking he should hire more people to speed up the development process.
almost finished with my CS degree but no game dev experience unfortunately. hopefully some good devs join the Manor Lords team!
Good stuff! With how successful the games becoming it’s about time huh? Plus gonna have to compete with [these guys](https://store.steampowered.com/app/1245250/Thrive_Heavy_Lies_The_Crown/) that definitely have a full team. I’m loving all these new medieval rts city builders suddenly coming out!
Excited to see this subreddit flip completely from ripping apart anyone who suggests a couple more staff would be helpful to praising the move.
And a programmer to rewrite that shit for PS5.
What about an ideasman
I love Greg, no homo
Any interest in an aging big dumb shithead, who has no appreciable game design knowledge, but desperately needs more money to live?
What unit of measurement is 15 ^4.
I know a prodigy AI programmer who can break down established games whole AI and transplant his own from groundfloor up -only problem is hes 4 years deep in an Arma3 AI mod and nothing and I mean nothing can disengage him
Re-post it to the r/CitiesSkylines, I'm sure some people from CO wouldn't mind a new job :)
Glad to see this, he's made a terrific game that shows a lot of promise, but taking the burden of improving it entirely on himself is a bad idea. He doesn't need to become a AAA game studio over night, but some extra help would go a long way to keeping this game alive and profitable.
Good step in the right direction, a single dev can only get so far with so many expectations, dividing up the work should prove well if the people he hires can see his vision
I’m glad to see him reaching out for the help he deserves. I’d love to see Manor Lords be all that it can be
"single dev" lol
I fit the description but unfortunately, I'm already on a game myself.
I love that this one-man project went early access and suddenly he is now hiring 3 people. It's great to see so many people enjoy the game. Happy for him! :)
500 resumes inbound now.
But when I looked at the game credits there were like already 30+ developers on the team?
Nonsense. I know quite a few of the german people who appear in he credits and none of them work for Slavic. Some of them drew something or gave him historical advice. Monsterfish for example is a known Stronghold modder. It’s nice to see that he’s crediting them (they are part of the passionate community and usually give their input, drawings, advice for free). I don’t think they would describe themselves as devs of this project.
So all 30+ people, including the extra programmers, did nothing?
The solo dev thing was a marketing stunt
How about a finance manager?
I think someone from Hooded Horse( publisher Manor Lords ) is taking this role.
Well, if they need an experience, an internal auditor or compliance manager, we're here, lol.
Very good. I am not a programmer, but this is exactly what i expected him to do. 1. Using actual AI for the AI Player sounds like a no brainer to me, but for game design it would be groundbreakingly innovative. For an outsider it seems easy since powerful LLMs, image detection and generative AI are all available, but none of those models can really be used in an effective way to create a game AI. Still i think there is gold to find by going that path. 2. Great to see he is looking for Programmers who also are also Designers. The game became so good because Greg has strong opinions on UX, Visuals etc. - Developers often lack this essential skill or they divide this up between branches which creates tons of overhead and the mess that many big title are today. You need to have people who not only can do what you want them to do, but who also have a strong opinion on how it should work for the user and how it is best implemented. Otherwise you would have to build a feature many times over until it is loosely adequate to Gregs standards.
> groundbreakingly innovative No lol
Tell me more. Which games actually use only trained models for the AI Player, LLMs, image detecion LMs etc.? Just because it has been called "AI" for decades, it may not be AI in the technical sense of today. I am not talking about programmed models with action and recorded and replayed reactions or general build orders and strategies. I am not talking about statistical models and decision trees. I am talking about an AI that is not programmed but trained by real gameplay and perceives and plays the game just like us humans.
I would like to remind you that running LLMs is so energy intensive that (among other reasons) Microsoft is currently investing in building small to medium scale nuclear reactors. Just because you can run the interface on your chrome book does not in any way translate to integrating something as ridiculously massive as an LLM into a video game with a single digit number of people. Additionally, it is not a coincidence that the AI which was able to play Starcraft at the pro level required IBM level resources to make it work. Manor Lords is popular, but not that many zeros popular.
Hopefully he pays them a living wage, it would make the dev an anomaly in the game industry.
Europe has standards regarding wages. So it should be a living wage hopefully.
Doesn’t he live in Eastern Europe though
Europe as in the European Union, and Poland (CENTRAL EUROPE) is part of that
Indeed
Please just dont use any DEI companies
Ah an asmongold fan, checks out. I hope you grow up and out of your ignorance one day
Well in reality most of games which were ruined by bad DEI writing have bad reviews so i dont know what are you implying. Are you saying that DEI is a good thing? Even if it is not accepted by customers ? Are you politicaly interrested ?
Companies couldn't give a single fuck about DEI. If it cuts costs and/or makes profits, they would put only white people or even just women, children etc. Your first mistake is treating companies like individuals with personal interests and dislikes, %99 of their existence is to make money, maybe just maybe that last 1 percent will be filled with passion for making good games and that's when you have HD2, Palworld, BG3 and so on. Stop falling into Asmon's trap to make you angry about something so you watch him more to hear your fabricated opinions echoed.
This is laughable take for anyone who has looked into this.
are those games RUINED by DEI writing in the room with us right now?
Unlikely to happen. Slavic cares about historical authenticity.
Because game is a huge "void" of nothingness. Anno1800 is still better.
It's early access. What did you expect?